pax_global_header00006660000000000000000000000064144432662740014526gustar00rootroot0000000000000052 comment=8c663632eddc461e8ec2478157d1a2166258a224 golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/000077500000000000000000000000001444326627400201705ustar00rootroot00000000000000golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/.gitignore000066400000000000000000000004531444326627400221620ustar00rootroot00000000000000# Binaries for programs and plugins *.exe *.exe~ *.dll *.so *.dylib # Test binary, built with `go test -c` *.test # Output of the go coverage tool, specifically when used with LiteIDE *.out # Dependency directories (remove the comment below to include it) # vendor/ /examples/visualize/visualize golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/.idea/000077500000000000000000000000001444326627400211505ustar00rootroot00000000000000golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/.idea/.gitignore000066400000000000000000000002601444326627400231360ustar00rootroot00000000000000# Default ignored files /shelf/ /workspace.xml # Datasource local storage ignored files /dataSources/ /dataSources.local.xml # Editor-based HTTP Client requests /httpRequests/ golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/.idea/inspectionProfiles/000077500000000000000000000000001444326627400250275ustar00rootroot00000000000000golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/.idea/inspectionProfiles/Project_Default.xml000066400000000000000000000040361444326627400306260ustar00rootroot00000000000000 golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/.idea/webResources.xml000066400000000000000000000005651444326627400243500ustar00rootroot00000000000000 golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/LICENSE000066400000000000000000000261351444326627400212040ustar00rootroot00000000000000 Apache License Version 2.0, January 2004 http://www.apache.org/licenses/ TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR USE, REPRODUCTION, AND DISTRIBUTION 1. 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See the License for the specific language governing permissions and limitations under the License. golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/README.md000066400000000000000000000060271444326627400214540ustar00rootroot00000000000000[![Go Report Card](https://goreportcard.com/badge/github.com/gatherstars-com/jwz?style=flat-square)](https://goreportcard.com/report/github.com/gatherstars-com/jwz) [![PkgGoDev](https://pkg.go.dev/badge/github.com/github.com/gatherstars-com/jwz)](https://pkg.go.dev/github.com/gatherstars-com/jwz) [![Release](https://img.shields.io/github/v/release/gatherstars-com/jwz?sort=semver&style=flat-square)](https://github.com/gatherstars-com/jwz/releases/latest) [![Release](https://img.shields.io/github/go-mod/go-version/gatherstars-com/jwz?style=flat-square)](https://github.com/gatherstars-com/jwz/releases/latest) [![Maintenance](https://img.shields.io/badge/Maintained%3F-yes-green.svg?style=flat-square)](https://github.com/gatherstars-com/jwz/commit-activity) [![GitHub license](https://img.shields.io/github/license/gatherstars-com/jwz.svg)](https://www.gathersatrs.com) [![GitHub stars](https://img.shields.io/github/stars/gatherstars-com/jwz.svg?style=flat-square&label=Star&maxAge=2592000)](https://GitHub.com/Naereen/StrapDown.js/stargazers/) # The JWZ Threading algorithm written in Go This is an open source Go implementation of the widely known JWZ message threading algorithm originally written by Jamie Zawinsky. See [his explanation here](https://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html) You will find an example of implementing the interface(s) needed to operate this package in the `/examples/visualize` directory. See the godoc for examples in documentation form, and the example in `examples\visualize` ## Functionality The package provides the original JWZ algorithm to implementors of the `Threadable` interface. It has been tested against many thousands of emails. The interface provides a few extra features over the original Java version, but these are additions and enhancements to the interface, not algorithmic changes. As well as providing the threading capability itself, the package also provides: - A generic walker, to which you can provide a function to operate upon the nodes in the threaded tree. - A generic sorter, to which you can provide your own comparison function (a byDate example is provided) Feel free to report any issues and offer any additions by pull requests. ## Quick start ```go include "github.com/gatherstars-com/jwz" ``` ```shell ~/myproject $ go mod tidy ``` ```go // Use the enmime package to build all the emails we find under the given directory and store them in a slice // of structs which implement the Threadable interface // // threadables, err := buildEnvelopes(testData, sizeHint) if err != nil { log.Printf("Unable to walk the eml directory: %#v", err) os.Exit(1) } // Now we have a big slice of all the emails, lets use our jwz algorithm to place them in to a thread tree // threader := jwz.NewThreader() sliceRoot, err := threader.ThreadSlice(threadables) if err != nil { log.Fatalf("Email threading operation return fatal error: %#v", err) } // Sort it Rodney! // x := jwz.Sort(sliceRoot, byDate) ``` An implementation of buildEnvelopes can be found in `examples\visualizer\handlers.go`golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/docs/000077500000000000000000000000001444326627400211205ustar00rootroot00000000000000golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/docs/img/000077500000000000000000000000001444326627400216745ustar00rootroot00000000000000golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/docs/img/clonobg.png000066400000000000000000000466531444326627400240430ustar00rootroot00000000000000PNG  IHDR,,y}u pHYsodtEXtSoftwarewww.inkscape.org< IDATxwS3DEI*TQPL\QXA$A^?(Hb%( yÄ: LN=+y9Fh4Fh4Fh4F)[P"'y~sO}Áki"ui4$a/e|{| i^^B BЋ@D(}& ~ eGYFIrbX-y1ĸss8Ih4)@B K\!گWF2$ưUℴ4M 1{XJ]աhRUXZ4Mꐘ|8hqZI›őyX|@hզߊNms,R !eXvA! 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ZCɆ;mE~[9 ӕ?s2];8qB 0IMn8BmLE:mex\ڸ^'M;.^#=O̩/M5Kk5}>slat4٣:փrk/x %… 3$@$@$@$@$@$@$@$@$@#~U8qjJ[m%J ,ջW(;86L#}y$$$‰C:mdΒP&A;UZUi } 9mfצ.5jԐAId=?{l4hS`ok.n6|򒒒"F"h?[~}=1pxBDH`TV]>V /GIwUJ*)>$E-*eʔScӂrk/Ν;QqHHHHHHHHH ;$&%:Joԏzۻ;flDUrThfwj^Ago^G=SqsgS#NͩC2[ՙt+ ɠr6u. enذQh_9B:z™2y7罩E!9iG,ߡFH{<3t;g>sf1[Q=ݾdSn]gμNʹSO{os? f͚9_}UH:Ŋ˔\`Ξ{B[n϶\[95SW\*۶~l1Tp%999T'+Wqs2/MyI˨(tOXxsg{<=I"%F9s5mB7o\L0Q/s9E.GwpXر<5r~钥{ "э2m=\Źxb]_=6Asl\٢~lu)\p̺Gn6 WHJ*NѢE/(GSzccI hm6@ hm 6UR#'LAa-B,wޭH$@$@ 8qB0, @F#3f              F _^15%U'IHHHHHHHHHHHHHH 'O)^9HHU$@$@$@$@$@$@$@$@$@$@$@$@$@$@~k}~{              '@oրHHHHHHHHHHHHHL,#             yt1` HHHHHHHHHHHHHH 2B*              '@oրHHHHHHHHHHHHHL f8 KmG[\d2B. @;"!~Ґ.l!]"C»$/E.wI.^f\ \<%xy-r1$Kr0[bHxaŐ.l!]f7 0.9.0, August 10, 2021: Explaining jwz module by example :toc: :icons: font :keywords: jwz email parsing threading enmime ifdef::env-github[] :tip-caption: :bulb: :note-caption: :information_source: :important-caption: :heavy_exclamation_mark: :caution-caption: :fire: :warning-caption: :warning: :imagesdir: https://github.com/gatherstars-com/jwz/raw/master/docs/img/ :showtitle: endif::[] ifndef::env-github[] :imagesdir: ../../docs/img/ endif::[] image:clonobg.png[Gather Stars Logo, 100, 100] This visualize tool is a working example showing how to use the Gather Stars, Inc. version of the widely known JWZ message threading algorithm originally written by Jamie Zawinsky - see https://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html[his explanation here]. This example demonstrates the use of go interfaces of the package. Obviously, so long as your own structure can implement the `Threadable` interface, then you can implement the email inputs however you like. The package is advertised as production quality, but the examples are obviously not. == Following the example code .The code is easy enough, with the `main.go` file showing how to: * Parse raw .eml files in to email envelopes using the excellent https://github.com/jhillyerd/enmime[Enmime go module] * Wrap the parsed envelopes in to a set of Threadable interfaces * Thread the set using the jwz package * Use the supplied Sort utility func to sort the threadable tree * Use the https://github.com/rivo/tview[tview] package to create an ASCII display tree of the emails to show humans that threading is working. The package tests verify it is working for programs. .The `handlers.go` file provides: * Sample implementation of the interface, called Email, which you can crib from (also, see the jwz_test.go file for an example of how to thread an arbitrary data model instead of a simple slice) * Some utility funcs ** buildEnvelopes parses all the .eml files it finds into a slice of Email structs ** byDate is an example sorting function, which obviously sorts by the email date == Trying it out The repo provides a publicly available email set under test/testdata. Clone this repo and then run it like this: ==== $ vizualize -emldir path/to/test/testdata ==== You will see some diagnostics about the quality of the test set (it is deliberately broken in some places for the unit tests), you should see a treeview in your terminal that looks like this: image::screen2.png[Image of threaded tree] If you don't need that testdata and just want to try the command on your own dataset, then there is no need to clone this repo. You can just install the `visualize` command into `${GOPATH}/bin`: ==== ~/lufc/ > go install github.com/gatherstars-com/jwz/examples/visualize@latest ==== Where I am sure it will clash with 42 other commands called visualize. golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/examples/visualize/handlers.go000066400000000000000000000261551444326627400261610ustar00rootroot00000000000000package main import ( "fmt" "github.com/gatherstars-com/jwz" "github.com/jhillyerd/enmime" "io/fs" "log" "net/mail" "os" "path/filepath" "regexp" "strings" "time" ) // buildEnvelopes finds all email files beneath the given emlDir (files starting with .eml), parses them // and returns a slice full of all the envelopes that we parsed in to existence // func buildEnvelopes(emlDir string, sizeHint int) ([]jwz.Threadable, error) { duprem := make(map[string]string) // Where we are going to store the emails. We know that the test data is of a fair size, so we tell the slice that // in advance // var emails = make([]jwz.Threadable, 0, sizeHint) var ignored int _ = filepath.WalkDir(emlDir, func(path string, d fs.DirEntry, err error) error { if err != nil { log.Printf("cannot process file %s because: %s", path, err) os.Exit(1) } if d.IsDir() { // Skip any directory entries, including the base test data dir // return nil } // We only look at files that have an eml extension // if !strings.HasSuffix(path, ".eml") { return nil } f, e := os.Open(path) if e != nil { return err } envelope, e1 := enmime.ReadEnvelope(f) _ = f.Close() if e1 != nil { log.Printf("cannot parse email file error = %v", e1) return nil } // See if the parser thinks that there are errors - the error recording in the package // is unfortunately a little hokey in that we just get some strings and will have to do // lots of processing if it is left that way. I would prefer to contribute some code that // processes errors like the AWS SDK, so we can check the types of error/warning etc. // if len(envelope.Errors) > 0 { for _, ee := range envelope.Errors { if !ee.Severe { log.Printf("enmime shows a non-fatal error. File '%s', error: %#v", path, ee) } else { log.Printf("enmime parse yields severe error. File: '%s', error: %#v", path, ee) return nil } } } // All is good, so let's accumulate the email, unless it's a duplicate, which sometimes happens // with spammers and test email sets from Kaggle. We will keep duplicates in the input directory but ignore // them for processing in this example. The actual unit test processes all the emails in testdata so that // dealing with garbage input is tested, but here we are creating a visual, so let's just remove the // Manchester United. // thisID := envelope.GetHeader("Message-Id") ent, present := duprem[thisID] if present { log.Printf("Duplicate message id(%s) in file '%s' ignored in favor of file '%s'", thisID, path, ent) ignored++ } else { duprem[thisID] = path email := NewEmail(envelope) emails = append(emails, email) } return nil }) log.Printf("Parsed %d email, with %d ignored for a total of %d", len(emails), ignored, len(emails)+ignored) return emails, nil } // Email implements the Threadable interface - see the interface documentation for the function docs. // This is what a user of this package needs to provide to thread their messages, though you don't have to use // enmime of course. // // You can put anything in here as only next and child are required, though you need some sort of // reference to the email, or at least a few parts of it, such as the Subject, Message-Id, and References // headers. // // You could also add a prev field if you need doubly linked next lists, which can make some things easier // etc. Or use a container or something. This is the simplest example - you should get the idea, big nose. // type Email struct { email *enmime.Envelope next jwz.Threadable parent jwz.Threadable child jwz.Threadable dummy bool forID string } // GetNext the next Threadable in the chain, if any // func (e *Email) GetNext() jwz.Threadable { return e.next } // GetChild the child Threadable of this node, if any // func (e *Email) GetChild() jwz.Threadable { return e.child } // GetParent the parent Threadable of this node, if any // func (e *Email) GetParent() jwz.Threadable { return e.parent } // GetDate extracts the timestamp from the enmime envelope contained in the supplied Threadable // func (e *Email) GetDate() time.Time { // We can have dummies because we are likely to have parsed a set of emails with incomplete threads, // where the start of the thread or sub thread was referenced, but we did not get to parse it, at least yet. // This means it will be a placeholder as the root for the thread, so we can use the time of the child as the // time of this email. // if e.IsDummy() { if e.GetChild() != nil { return e.GetChild().GetDate() } // Protect against having nothing in the children that knows what time it is. So, back to the // beginning of time according to Unix // return time.Unix(0, 0) } emailDateStr := e.email.GetHeader("Date") d, err := mail.ParseDate(emailDateStr) if err != nil { return time.Unix(0, 0) } return d } var idre = regexp.MustCompile("<.*?>") // MessageThreadID the id of this email message // func (e *Email) MessageThreadID() string { if e.dummy { return e.forID } ref := e.email.GetHeader("Message-Id") refs := idre.FindAllString(ref, -1) if len(refs) > 0 { return refs[0] } return "" } func (e *Email) MessageThreadReferences() []string { if e.dummy { return nil } // This should be a nicely formatted field that has unique IDs enclosed within <>, and each of those should be // space separated. However, it isn't as simple as this because all sorts of garbage mail clients have been programmed // over the years by people who did not understand what the References field was (I'm looking at you // Comcast, for instance). We can get things like: // // 1) References: Your message of Friday... (Some garbage the programmer thought might be useful) // 2) References: me@mydomain.com (This isn't even a reference, it is the sender's email) // 3) References: (Either a pure bug, or they misread the spec) // // Further to this, we also need to filter out the following: // // 4) References: (The client author places this email as the first in the // reference chain) // 5) References: A pure bug somewhere in the chain repeats a reference // // The RFC has now been cleaned up to exactly specify this field, but we have to assume there are still // 20 year old email clients out there and cater for them. Especially when we are testing with ancient // public email bodies. // ref := e.email.GetHeader("References") // Find all the correctly delimited references, which takes care of 1) and 3) // rawRefs := idre.FindAllString(ref, -1) // Find the message Id, so we can take care of 4) // m := e.MessageThreadID() // Find the From address, so we can deal with 2). Even though ignoring this would be harmless in that we would just // think it is an email we never saw, it is wrong not to deal with here. We can avoid the clutter in the database // by filtering them out. // fa, _ := e.email.AddressList("From") // Make a set, so we can remove duplicates and deal with 5) // set := make(map[string]interface{}) // This will be our final return set, after de-fucking the references // var refs = make([]string, 0, len(rawRefs)) // Now we range through the references that the email has given us and make sure that the reference does // not run afoul of 2), 4) or 5) // for _, r := range rawRefs { // 2) and 5) // if _, repeated := set[r]; r != m && !repeated { set[r] = nil // Technically, From: can have more than one sender (back in the day before email lists // got sorted), we will never see this in practice, but, in for a pound, in for a penny // var found bool = false for _, f := range fa { if r == "<"+f.Address+">" { found = true break } } if !found { // If we got thorough all of those checks, then Phew! Made it! // refs = append(refs, r) } } } return refs } var re = regexp.MustCompile("[Rr][Ee][ \t]*:[ \t]*") // SimplifiedSubject the email subject without any Re: prefixes. If this // Threadable is a dummy, but it has a child, we try to use the subject in the // child, if it has one. Note that this is only used for threading if there are // no references etc // func (e *Email) SimplifiedSubject() string { if e.dummy { return "" } subj := e.email.GetHeader("Subject") subj = re.ReplaceAllString(subj, "") return strings.Trim(subj, " ") } // Subject the subject as defined in the email, plus a few adornments so that humans can see that // the threading is correct and see the sort order // func (e *Email) Subject() string { if e.dummy { if e.child != nil { return e.child.Subject() + " :: node synthesized by https://gatherstars.com/" } return fmt.Sprintf("Placeholder %s - manufactured by https://gatherstars.com/", e.MessageThreadID()) } // Add in the date for a bit of extra information // var sb strings.Builder t := e.GetDate() sb.WriteString(t.UTC().String()) sb.WriteString(" : ") sb.WriteString(strings.Trim(e.email.GetHeader("Subject"), " ")) return sb.String() } // SubjectIsReply true if the Subject header of this email appears to indicate it is a reply to something. // This is only used if there are no references in the Threadables that otherwise show that relationship func (e *Email) SubjectIsReply() bool { if e.dummy { return false } subj := e.email.GetHeader("Subject") return re.MatchString(subj) } // SetNext allows us to change or add a pointer to the next Threadable in a set of emails // func (e *Email) SetNext(next jwz.Threadable) { e.next = next } // SetChild allows us to add or change the child Threadable of this node // func (e *Email) SetChild(kid jwz.Threadable) { e.child = kid if kid != nil { kid.SetParent(e) } } // SetParent allows us to add or change the parent Threadable of this node // func (e *Email) SetParent(parent jwz.Threadable) { e.parent = parent } // MakeDummy manufactures a placeholder Threadable that other Threadables can become children of. See // interface documentation for more details - note that this may be subject to change to also supply the // MessageID that this dummy is placeholder for, if we have it // func (e *Email) MakeDummy(forID string) jwz.Threadable { return &Email{ dummy: true, forID: forID, } } // IsDummy true if this Threadable is a Manchester United supporter // func (e *Email) IsDummy() bool { return e.dummy } // NewEmail creates a new structure that implements the jwz.Threadable interface. it should be obvious that // your struct can contain whatever you want it to, so long as it obeys the jwz.Threadable contract. Here, // we use it to pass around a pointer to the enmime envelope that we have parsed an email into. // func NewEmail(envelope *enmime.Envelope) jwz.Threadable { e := &Email{ email: envelope, dummy: false, } return e } // byDate is a sort comparison function that is used to call in to the Threadable Sort utility function and // sort the threads by Date // func byDate(t1 jwz.Threadable, t2 jwz.Threadable) bool { return t1.GetDate().Before(t2.GetDate()) } golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/examples/visualize/main.go000066400000000000000000000137671444326627400253120ustar00rootroot00000000000000package main import ( "flag" "fmt" "github.com/gatherstars-com/jwz" "github.com/gdamore/tcell/v2" "github.com/rivo/tview" "io/ioutil" "log" "os" "sort" "strings" ) func main() { var testData string var sizeHint int flag.StringVar(&testData, "emldir", "./eml", "base directory beneath which the test can find .eml files") flag.IntVar(&sizeHint, "sizehint", 3000, "supply a rough number of the emails you are scanning, if you have a clue") flag.Parse() // Use the enmime package to build all the emails we find under the given directory // threadables, err := buildEnvelopes(testData, sizeHint) if err != nil { log.Printf("Unable to walk the eml directory: %#v", err) os.Exit(1) } // Now we have a big slice of all the emails, lets use our jwz algorithm to place them in to a thread tree // threader := jwz.NewThreader() sliceRoot, err := threader.ThreadSlice(threadables) if err != nil { log.Fatalf("Email threading operation return fatal error: %#v", err) } // Sort it Rodney! // x := jwz.Sort(sliceRoot, byDate) // And create a tree visualization in the console. Note that TERM must be set and your terminfo // stuff should be good. I don't know if this works on Windows - perhaps someone can tell me. // visualize(x) } // visualize a neat-ish ASCII tree representation of the threads, so we can do a human based check of whether // things are working. // // Also, The colors will sometimes look wonky on a custom configuration of OSX console. Try a standard one and // make sure your TERM and terminfo database are good if you have issues. func visualize(threads jwz.Threadable) { root := tview.NewTreeNode("Threads"). SetColor(tcell.ColorGreen) buildVisual(root, threads) tree := tview.NewTreeView(). SetRoot(root). SetCurrentNode(root) sideBar := tview.NewTextView(). SetTextAlign(tview.AlignLeft). SetText("Email Text") headers := tview.NewTextView(). SetTextAlign(tview.AlignLeft). SetText("Email Headers"). SetToggleHighlights(false) // There is only selected (mouse click or , not a tree.SetSelectedFunc(func(node *tview.TreeNode) { reference := node.GetReference() if reference == nil { sideBar.SetText("No email in this node") } else { thr := reference.(*Email) if thr.dummy { sideBar.SetText("Placeholders manufactured by the Threader don't contain email text") } else { if thr.email.HTML != "" { sideBar.SetText(thr.email.HTML) ioutil.WriteFile(thr.MessageThreadID()+".html", []byte(thr.email.HTML), 0666) ioutil.WriteFile(thr.MessageThreadID()+".txt", []byte(thr.email.Text), 0666) } else { sideBar.SetText(thr.email.Text) } sideBar.ScrollToBeginning() headers.Clear() // Print each header in sorted order // hk := thr.email.GetHeaderKeys() sort.Strings(hk) for _, k := range hk { v := thr.email.GetHeader(k) if !strings.HasPrefix(k, "From ") { _, _ = headers.Write([]byte(fmt.Sprintf("%-30s: %s\n", k, v))) headers.ScrollToBeginning() } } } } }) grid := tview.NewGrid(). SetRows(-3, 0). SetColumns(-0, -2). SetBorders(true). AddItem(headers, 1, 0, 1, 2, 0, 0, false) grid.AddItem(tree, 0, 0, 1, 1, 5, 50, true). AddItem(sideBar, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 50, false) flex := tview.NewFlex().SetDirection(tview.FlexRow) flex.AddItem(tree, 0, 2, true) text := tview.NewBox().SetBorder(false) flex.AddItem(text, 0, 3, false) info := tview.NewBox().SetBorder(true) flex.AddItem(info, 7, 1, false) app := tview.NewApplication().SetRoot(grid, true).EnableMouse(true) if err := app.Run(); err != nil { panic(err) } } // This function is called when an email node is selected in the tree // // buildVisual creates a visual node for the given treeNode and makes it a child of the // given target node. func buildVisual(target *tview.TreeNode, treeNode jwz.Threadable) { if treeNode == nil { // We have descended far enough in this part of the tree // return } // We need a new visual node for this part of the tree // n := tview.NewTreeNode(tview.Escape(treeNode.Subject())). SetReference(treeNode) // And select a colour // colorMe(n, treeNode) // Which we add to the target node // target.AddChild(n) // Then we add the child of this node to newly create visual entry as a child. This recursive call will make sure we // descend the children of every node correctly as we trace the next pointers at the same level after this // buildVisual(n, treeNode.GetChild()) // But all the next links in the chain from this node are children of our current visual // for next := treeNode.GetNext(); next != nil; next = next.GetNext() { // So we create a visual node for this next email // nn := tview.NewTreeNode(next.Subject()). SetReference(next) // Select a color // colorMe(nn, next) // And it becomes a child of the target too // target.AddChild(nn) // And in turn, we need to add its children // buildVisual(nn, next.GetChild()) } } // colorMe decides what color a visualized node should be, based on whether it has child and/or next func colorMe(n *tview.TreeNode, treeNode jwz.Threadable) { hasNext := treeNode.GetNext() != nil hasChild := treeNode.GetChild() != nil // Color according to taste - not that the background color of your terminal and whether you have bothered // to set TERM and terminfo up correctly may make these color selections look strange or even not work // switch { case hasNext && hasChild: // With a next and a child, it is part of a thread, but also the start of a sub thread // n.SetColor(tcell.ColorLightGreen) case hasNext: // With a next and no child, it is a reply by some boring old gammon // n.SetColor(tcell.ColorLightBlue) case hasChild: // With a child and no next then it is the start of a sub-thread // n.SetColor(tcell.ColorLightGreen) default: // With no child and no next, then it is the haggard old spinster of the email world // and either resides on its own, or has the last word on a thread. Or something. // n.SetColor(tcell.ColorLightYellow) } } golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/go.mod000066400000000000000000000010521444326627400212740ustar00rootroot00000000000000module github.com/gatherstars-com/jwz go 1.16 require ( github.com/davecgh/go-spew v1.1.1 // indirect github.com/gdamore/tcell/v2 v2.6.0 github.com/gogs/chardet v0.0.0-20211120154057-b7413eaefb8f // indirect github.com/jaytaylor/html2text v0.0.0-20211105163654-bc68cce691ba // indirect github.com/jhillyerd/enmime v0.11.0 github.com/rivo/tview v0.0.0-20230226195229-47e7db7885b4 github.com/rivo/uniseg v0.4.4 // indirect github.com/stretchr/testify v1.7.1 // indirect golang.org/x/net v0.7.0 // indirect gopkg.in/yaml.v3 v3.0.1 // indirect ) golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/go.sum000066400000000000000000000166021444326627400213300ustar00rootroot00000000000000github.com/cention-sany/utf7 v0.0.0-20170124080048-26cad61bd60a h1:MISbI8sU/PSK/ztvmWKFcI7UGb5/HQT7B+i3a2myKgI= github.com/cention-sany/utf7 v0.0.0-20170124080048-26cad61bd60a/go.mod h1:2GxOXOlEPAMFPfp014mK1SWq8G8BN8o7/dfYqJrVGn8= github.com/davecgh/go-spew v1.1.0/go.mod h1:J7Y8YcW2NihsgmVo/mv3lAwl/skON4iLHjSsI+c5H38= github.com/davecgh/go-spew v1.1.1 h1:vj9j/u1bqnvCEfJOwUhtlOARqs3+rkHYY13jYWTU97c= github.com/davecgh/go-spew v1.1.1/go.mod h1:J7Y8YcW2NihsgmVo/mv3lAwl/skON4iLHjSsI+c5H38= github.com/gdamore/encoding v1.0.0 h1:+7OoQ1Bc6eTm5niUzBa0Ctsh6JbMW6Ra+YNuAtDBdko= github.com/gdamore/encoding v1.0.0/go.mod h1:alR0ol34c49FCSBLjhosxzcPHQbf2trDkoo5dl+VrEg= github.com/gdamore/tcell/v2 v2.6.0 h1:OKbluoP9VYmJwZwq/iLb4BxwKcwGthaa1YNBJIyCySg= github.com/gdamore/tcell/v2 v2.6.0/go.mod h1:be9omFATkdr0D9qewWW3d+MEvl5dha+Etb5y65J2H8Y= github.com/go-test/deep v1.0.7 h1:/VSMRlnY/JSyqxQUzQLKVMAskpY/NZKFA5j2P+0pP2M= github.com/go-test/deep v1.0.7/go.mod h1:QV8Hv/iy04NyLBxAdO9njL0iVPN1S4d/A3NVv1V36o8= github.com/gogs/chardet v0.0.0-20191104214054-4b6791f73a28/go.mod h1:Pcatq5tYkCW2Q6yrR2VRHlbHpZ/R4/7qyL1TCF7vl14= github.com/gogs/chardet v0.0.0-20211120154057-b7413eaefb8f h1:3BSP1Tbs2djlpprl7wCLuiqMaUh5SJkkzI2gDs+FgLs= github.com/gogs/chardet v0.0.0-20211120154057-b7413eaefb8f/go.mod h1:Pcatq5tYkCW2Q6yrR2VRHlbHpZ/R4/7qyL1TCF7vl14= github.com/jaytaylor/html2text v0.0.0-20200412013138-3577fbdbcff7/go.mod h1:CVKlgaMiht+LXvHG173ujK6JUhZXKb2u/BQtjPDIvyk= github.com/jaytaylor/html2text v0.0.0-20211105163654-bc68cce691ba h1:QFQpJdgbON7I0jr2hYW7Bs+XV0qjc3d5tZoDnRFnqTg= github.com/jaytaylor/html2text v0.0.0-20211105163654-bc68cce691ba/go.mod h1:CVKlgaMiht+LXvHG173ujK6JUhZXKb2u/BQtjPDIvyk= github.com/jhillyerd/enmime v0.11.0 h1:5EOSLh7l3eMODznfMCKVGQY74Qb95Yfuet6CYgquLfM= github.com/jhillyerd/enmime v0.11.0/go.mod h1:nw2aJ34YXWklLze+qEESgP+KNhU3fMQuiFsD/4soh3Q= github.com/lucasb-eyer/go-colorful v1.2.0 h1:1nnpGOrhyZZuNyfu1QjKiUICQ74+3FNCN69Aj6K7nkY= github.com/lucasb-eyer/go-colorful v1.2.0/go.mod h1:R4dSotOR9KMtayYi1e77YzuveK+i7ruzyGqttikkLy0= github.com/mattn/go-runewidth v0.0.9/go.mod 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h1:hNGJHUnrk76NpqgfD5Aqm5Crs+Hm0VOH/i9J2+nxYbc= golang.org/x/xerrors v0.0.0-20190717185122-a985d3407aa7/go.mod h1:I/5z698sn9Ka8TeJc9MKroUUfqBBauWjQqLJ2OPfmY0= gopkg.in/check.v1 v0.0.0-20161208181325-20d25e280405/go.mod h1:Co6ibVJAznAaIkqp8huTwlJQCZ016jof/cbN4VW5Yz0= gopkg.in/yaml.v3 v3.0.0-20200313102051-9f266ea9e77c/go.mod h1:K4uyk7z7BCEPqu6E+C64Yfv1cQ7kz7rIZviUmN+EgEM= gopkg.in/yaml.v3 v3.0.1 h1:fxVm/GzAzEWqLHuvctI91KS9hhNmmWOoWu0XTYJS7CA= gopkg.in/yaml.v3 v3.0.1/go.mod h1:K4uyk7z7BCEPqu6E+C64Yfv1cQ7kz7rIZviUmN+EgEM= golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/jwz.go000066400000000000000000000454311444326627400213400ustar00rootroot00000000000000// Package jwz is an implementation of the email threading algorithm created by Jamie Zawinski and explained by him // at: https://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html // // This package was created by cribbing from the code at: // https://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html#:~:text=grendel-1999-05-14.tar.gz // from the Java source code in view/Threader.java - it contains no ham and cheese sandwiches. // // The code, interface etc. was obviously adapted in to Go form, though where possible, the code reflects the // original Java if it is not too ungolike. // // Author: Jim Idle - jimi@idle.ws / jimi@gatherstars.com // // See the LICENSE file, sit down, have a scone. // package jwz import ( "errors" "fmt" ) // Threader arranges a set of messages into a thread hierarchy, by references. // type Threader struct { rootNode *threadContainer idTable map[string]*threadContainer bogusIDCount int } // NewThreader returns an instance of the Threader struct, that is ready to attack // your Threadable // //goland:noinspection GoUnusedExportedFunction func NewThreader() *Threader { t := &Threader{ idTable: make(map[string]*threadContainer), } return t } // Thread will create a threadable organized so that the root node // is the original reference, creating dummy placeholders for the emails // we don't have yet // func (t *Threader) Thread(threadable Threadable) (Threadable, error) { if threadable == nil { return nil, nil } // Build a thread container from this single email // if !threadable.IsDummy() { if err := t.buildContainer(threadable); err != nil { return nil, err } } else { return nil, errors.New("cannot thread a single email with a dummy root") } var err error // Organize the root set from what we have // t.rootNode, err = t.findRootSet() if err != nil { return nil, err } // We no longer need the map - probably no real need to blank it here, but the original Java code did that, // and it won't harm to let the GC reclaim this in case our caller keeps the *Threader around for some reason // t.idTable = nil // We do this to avoid flipping the input order each time through. // t.rootNode.reverseChildren() // There should not be a next in the root of a conversation thread // if t.rootNode.next != nil { return nil, fmt.Errorf("root node contains a next and should not: %#v", t.rootNode) } // Because the result of this function is a tree that does actually contain dummies for missing references // we need to add a dummy threadable for any node that does not yet have one. Then we can flush the chain // of containers in to the threadable // t.rootNode.fillDummy(threadable) var result Threadable if t.rootNode.child != nil { result = t.rootNode.child.threadable } // Flush the tree structure of each element of the root set down into // their underlying Threadables // _ = t.rootNode.flush() t.rootNode = nil return result, nil } // ThreadSlice will thread the set of messages contained within threadableSlice. // The Threadable returned is the new first element of the root set. // func (t *Threader) ThreadSlice(threadableSlice []Threadable) (Threadable, error) { if threadableSlice == nil || len(threadableSlice) == 0 { return nil, nil } // Iterate all the Threadable represented by the root and build the // threadContainer from them // for _, nt := range threadableSlice { if !nt.IsDummy() { if err := t.buildContainer(nt); err != nil { return nil, err } } } return t.threadRoot() } // ThreadRoot will thread the set of messages provided by ThreadableRoot. // The Threadable returned is the new first element of the root set. // func (t *Threader) ThreadRoot(threadableRoot ThreadableRoot) (Threadable, error) { if threadableRoot == nil { return nil, nil } // Iterate all the Threadable represented by the root and build the // threadContainer from them // for threadableRoot.Next() == true { nt := threadableRoot.Get() if !nt.IsDummy() { if err := t.buildContainer(nt); err != nil { return nil, err } } } return t.threadRoot() } func (t *Threader) threadRoot() (Threadable, error) { var err error // Organize the root set from what we have // t.rootNode, err = t.findRootSet() if err != nil { return nil, err } // We no longer need the map - probably no real need to blank it here, but the original Java code did that, // and it won't harm to let the GC reclaim this in case our caller keeps the *Threader around for some reason // t.idTable = nil // Get rid of any empty containers. They should no longer needed // t.pruneEmptyContainers(t.rootNode) // We do this so to avoid flipping the input order each time through. // t.rootNode.reverseChildren() // We might need to sort on subjects, so let's process them // t.gatherSubjects() // There should not be a next in the root of a conversation thread // if t.rootNode.next != nil { return nil, fmt.Errorf("root node contains a next and should not: %#v", t.rootNode) } for r := t.rootNode.child; r != nil; r = r.next { // If this direct child of the root node has no threadable in it, // manufacture a dummy container to bind its children together. // Note that these dummies can only ever occur as elements of // the root set. // if r.threadable == nil { r.threadable = r.child.threadable.MakeDummy(r.forID) } } var result Threadable if t.rootNode.child != nil { result = t.rootNode.child.threadable } // Flush the tree structure of each element of the root set down into // their underlying Threadables // _ = t.rootNode.flush() t.rootNode = nil return result, nil } // buildContainer() does three things: // // - It walks the tree of Threadable, and wraps each in a // threadContainer object. // - It indexes each threadContainer object in the idTable, under // the message ID of the contained Threadable. // - For each of the references within Threadable, it ensures that there // is a threadContainer in the table (an empty one, if necessary.) // func (t *Threader) buildContainer(threadable Threadable) error { var present bool // See if we already have a container for this threadable // id := threadable.MessageThreadID() tid := id c, present := t.idTable[id] if present { // There is already a ThreadContainer in the table for this ID. // Under normal circumstances, there will be no IThreadable in it // (since it was a forward reference from a References field.) // // If there is already a threadable in it, then that means there // are two IThreadables with the same ID. Generate a new ID for // this one, sigh... This ID is only used to cause the two entries // in the hash table to not stomp each other. // if c.threadable != nil { id = fmt.Sprintf("", t.bogusIDCount) t.bogusIDCount++ c = nil } else { c.threadable = threadable } } // Create a ThreadContainer for this Threadable, and store it in // the map // if c == nil { c = &threadContainer{forID: tid} c.threadable = threadable c.forID = tid t.idTable[id] = c } // Create ThreadContainers for each of the references which don't // have them. Link each of the referenced messages together in the // order implied by the references field, unless they are already // linked. // var parentRef, ref *threadContainer // Iterate through the references field of the threadable and see if we // already have a reference to them in our map. Create one if not // refs := threadable.MessageThreadReferences() for _, refString := range refs { ref, present = t.idTable[refString] if !present { ref = &threadContainer{forID: refString} t.idTable[refString] = ref } // If we have references A B C D, make D be a child of C, etc., // except if they have parents already. // if parentRef != nil && // there is a parent ref.parent == nil && // don't have a parent already parentRef != ref && // not a tight loop !ref.findChild(parentRef) && // already linked !parentRef.findChild(ref) { // not a wide loop // Ok, link it into the parent's child list. // ref.parent = parentRef ref.next = parentRef.child parentRef.child = ref } parentRef = ref } // At this point `parentRef' is set to the container of the last element // in the references field. Make that be the parent of this container, // unless doing so would introduce a circularity. // if parentRef != nil && (parentRef == c || c.findChild(parentRef)) { parentRef = nil } if c.parent != nil { // If it has a parent already, that's there because we saw this message // in a references field, and presumed a parent based on the other // entries in that field. Now that we have the actual message, we can // be more definitive, so throw away the old parent and use this new one. // Find this container in the parent's child-list, and unlink it. // // Note that this could cause this message to now have no parent, if it // has no references field, but some message referred to it as the // non-first element of its references. (Which would have been some // kind of lie...) // var rest, prev *threadContainer for prev, rest = nil, c.parent.child; rest != nil; { if rest == c { break } prev = rest rest = rest.next } if rest == nil { return fmt.Errorf("didn't find %#v in parent %#v", c, c.parent) } if prev == nil { c.parent.child = c.next } else { prev.next = c.next } c.next = nil c.parent = nil } // If we have a parent, link c into the parent's child list. // if parentRef != nil { c.parent = parentRef c.next = parentRef.child parentRef.child = c } // No error // return nil } // findRootSet finds the root set of the threadContainers, and returns a root node. // // NB: A container is in the root set if it has no parents. // func (t *Threader) findRootSet() (*threadContainer, error) { root := &threadContainer{} for _, c := range t.idTable { if c.parent == nil { if c.next != nil { return nil, fmt.Errorf("container has no parent, but has a next value: %#v", c.next) } c.next = root.child root.child = c } } return root, nil } // Walk through the threads and discard any empty container objects. // After calling this, there will only be any empty container objects // at depth 0, and those will all have at least two kids. // func (t *Threader) pruneEmptyContainers(parent *threadContainer) { var prev *threadContainer var container = parent.child var next *threadContainer if container != nil { next = container.next } for container != nil { if container.threadable == nil && container.child == nil { // This is an empty container with no kids. Nuke it. // // Normally such containers won't occur, but they can show up when // two messages have References lines that disagree. For example, // assuming A and B are messages, and 1, 2, and 3 are references for // messages we haven't seen: // // A has refs: 1 2 3 // B has refs: 1 3 // // There is ambiguity whether 3 is a child of 1 or 2. So, // depending on the processing order, we might end up with either // // -- 1 // |-- 2 // |-- 3 // |-- A // |-- B // or // -- 1 // |-- 2 <--- non-root childless container // |-- 3 // |-- A // |-- B // if prev == nil { parent.child = container.next } else { prev.next = container.next } // Set container to prev so that prev keeps its same value // the next time through the loop. // container = prev } else if container.threadable == nil && // expired, and container.child != nil && // has kids, and (container.parent != nil || // not at root, or container.child.next == nil) { // only one kid // Expired message with kids. Promote the kids to this level. // Don't do this if we would be promoting them to the root level, // unless there is only one kid. // var tail *threadContainer var kids = container.child // Remove this container from the list, replacing it with `kids' // if prev == nil { parent.child = kids } else { prev.next = kids } // Make each child's parent be this level's parent. // Make the last child's next be this container's next // - splicing `kids' into the list in place of `container' // for tail = kids; tail.next != nil; tail = tail.next { tail.parent = container.parent } tail.parent = container.parent tail.next = container.next // Since we've inserted items in the chain, `next' currently points // to the item after them (tail.next); reset that so that we process // the newly promoted items the very next time around. // next = kids // Set container to prev so that prev keeps its same value // the next time through the loop. // container = prev } else if container.child != nil { // A real message with kids. // Iterate over its children, and try to strip out the junk. // t.pruneEmptyContainers(container) } // Set up for the next iteration // prev = container container = next if container == nil { next = nil } else { next = container.next } } } // If any two members of the root set have the same subject, merge them. // This is so that messages which don't have References headers at all // still get threaded (to the extent possible, at least.) // func (t *Threader) gatherSubjects() { var count int subjTable := make(map[string]*threadContainer) for c := t.rootNode.child; c != nil; c = c.next { threadable := c.threadable // If there is no threadable, this is a dummy node in the root set. // Only root set members may be dummies, and they always have at least // two kids. Take the first kid as representative of the subject. // if threadable == nil { threadable = c.child.threadable } subj := threadable.SimplifiedSubject() if subj == "" { continue } old := subjTable[subj] // Add this container to the table if: // - There is no container in the table with this subject, or // - This one is a dummy container and the old one is not: the dummy // one is more interesting as a root, so put it in the table instead. // - The container in the table has a "Re:" version of this subject, // and this container has a non-"Re:" version of this subject. // The non-re version is the more interesting of the two. // if old == nil || (c.threadable == nil && old.threadable != nil) || (old.threadable != nil && old.threadable.SubjectIsReply() && c.threadable != nil && !c.threadable.SubjectIsReply()) { subjTable[subj] = c count++ } } // We are done if the table is empty // if count == 0 { return } // The subj_table is now populated with one entry for each subject which // occurs in the root set. Now iterate over the root set, and gather // together the difference. // var prev, c, rest *threadContainer prev = nil c = t.rootNode.child rest = c.next for c != nil { threadable := c.threadable // might be a dummy -- see above // if threadable == nil { threadable = c.child.threadable } subj := threadable.SimplifiedSubject() // Don't thread together all subject-less messages; let them dangle. // if subj != "" { old := subjTable[subj] if old != c { // Avoid processing ourselves // Ok, so now we have found another container in the root set with // the same subject. There are a few possibilities: // // - If both are dummies, append one's children to the other, and remove // the now-empty container. // // - If one container is a dummy and the other is not, make the non-dummy // one be a child of the dummy, and a sibling of the other "real" // messages with the same subject (the dummy's children.) // // - If that container is a non-dummy, and that message's subject does // not begin with "Re:", but *this* message's subject does, then // make this be a child of the other. // // - If that container is a non-dummy, and that message's subject begins // with "Re:", but *this* message's subject does *not*, then make that // be a child of this one -- they were mis-ordered. (This happens // somewhat implicitly, since if there are two messages, one with Re: // and one without, the one without will be in the hash table, // regardless of the order in which they were seen.) // // - Otherwise, make a new dummy container and make both messages be a // child of it. This catches the both-are-replies and neither-are- // replies cases, and makes them be siblings instead of asserting a // hierarchical relationship which might not be true. // // (People who reply to a message without using "Re:" and without using // a References line will break this slightly. Those people suck.) // // (It has occurred to me that taking the date or message number into // account would be one way of resolving some ambiguous cases, // but that's not altogether straightforward either.) // JI: You cannot rely on the clock settings being correct on a server/client that sent a message // // Remove the "second" message from the root set. if prev == nil { t.rootNode.child = c.next } else { prev.next = c.next } c.next = nil if old.threadable == nil && c.threadable == nil { // They're both dummies; merge them. // var tail *threadContainer for tail = old.child; tail != nil && tail.next != nil; tail = tail.next { } tail.next = c.child for tail = c.child; tail != nil; tail = tail.next { tail.parent = old } c.child = nil } else if old.threadable == nil || // old is empty, or (c.threadable != nil && c.threadable.SubjectIsReply() && // c has Re, and !old.threadable.SubjectIsReply()) { // old does not. // Make this message be a child of the other. c.parent = old c.next = old.child old.child = c } else { // Make the old and new messages be children of a new dummy container. // We do this by creating a new container object for old->msg and // transforming the old container into a dummy (by merely emptying it), // so that the table still points to the one that is at depth 0 // instead of depth 1. // newC := &threadContainer{} newC.threadable = old.threadable newC.child = old.child for tail := newC.child; tail != nil; tail = tail.next { tail.parent = newC } old.threadable = nil old.child = nil c.parent = old newC.parent = old // old is now a dummy; make it have exactly two kids, c and newC. // old.child = c c.next = newC } // we've done a merge, so keep the same `prev' next time around. // c = prev } } prev = c c = rest if rest != nil { rest = rest.next } } } golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/jwz_test.go000066400000000000000000000274621444326627400224030ustar00rootroot00000000000000package jwz import ( "fmt" "github.com/jhillyerd/enmime" "io/fs" "log" "net/mail" "os" "path/filepath" "regexp" "strings" "testing" "time" ) // Where we are going to store the emails. We know that the test data is of a fair size, so we tell the slice that // in advance // var Emails = make([]Threadable, 0, 3000) // TestMain sets up everything for the other test(s). It essentially parses a largish set of publicly available // Emails in to a structure that can then be used to perform email threading testing. To perform the parsing, we // use the enmime package at https://github.com/jhillyerd/enmime // func TestMain(m *testing.M) { // Parse all the emails in the test directory // loadEmails() // OK, we have a fairly large email set all parsed, so now we can let the real tests run // os.Exit(m.Run()) } func loadEmails() { _ = filepath.WalkDir("test/testdata", func(path string, d fs.DirEntry, err error) error { if err != nil { log.Printf("cannot process directory/file %s because: %#v", path, err) os.Exit(1) } if d.IsDir() { // Skip any directory entries, including the base test data dir // return nil } // We only look at files that have an eml extension // if !strings.HasSuffix(path, ".eml") { return nil } f, e := os.Open(path) if e != nil { return err } envelope, e1 := enmime.ReadEnvelope(f) _ = f.Close() if e1 != nil { log.Printf("cannot parse email file error = %v", e1) return nil } // See if the parser thinks that there are errors - the error recording in the package // is unfortunately a little hokey in that we just get some strings and will have to do // lots of processing if it is left that way. I would prefer to contribute some code that // processes errors like the AWS SDK, so we can check the types of error/warning etc. // if len(envelope.Errors) > 0 { for _, ee := range envelope.Errors { if ee.Severe { log.Printf("enmime parse yields severe error. File '%s', error: %#v", path, ee) return nil } log.Printf("enmime shows a non-fatal error. File '%s'm error: %#v", path, ee) } } // All is good, so let's accumulate the email // email := NewEmail(envelope) Emails = append(Emails, email) return nil }) } // EmailRoot is a structure that implements the ThreadableRoot interface. I have not used ThreadableRoot // here, but this is what it needs to look like if your input structure is not just a slice of Threadable // type EmailRoot struct { // This is some structure of the emails you want to thread, that you know how to traverse // emails []Threadable // You need some sort of position holder, which in this silly example is an index in the struct // position int } // Next sets the internal cursor to the next available Threadable // func (e *EmailRoot) Next() bool { e.position = e.position + 1 if e.position < len(e.emails) { return true } return false } // Get returns the Threadable at the current internal cursor position // func (e *EmailRoot) Get() Threadable { return e.emails[e.position] } // NewThreadableRoot returns a struct instance that can be traversed using the ThreadableRoot interface // func NewThreadableRoot(emails []Threadable) ThreadableRoot { tr := &EmailRoot{ emails: emails, position: -1, } return tr } // Email is structure that implements the Threadable interface - this is what a user of this // package needs to do. // type Email struct { email *enmime.Envelope next Threadable parent Threadable child Threadable dummy bool forID string } func (e *Email) GetNext() Threadable { return e.next } func (e *Email) GetChild() Threadable { return e.child } // GetParent the parent Threadable of this node, if any // func (e *Email) GetParent() Threadable { return e.parent } // GetDate extracts the timestamp from the enmime envelope contained in the supplied Threadable // func (e *Email) GetDate() time.Time { // We can have dummies because we are likely to have parsed a set of emails with incomplete threads, // where the start of the thread or sub thread was referenced, but we did not get to parse it, at least yet. // This means it will be a placeholder as the root for the thread, so we can use the time of the child as the // time of this email. // if e.IsDummy() { if e.GetChild() != nil { return e.GetChild().GetDate() } // Protect against having nothing in the children that knows what time it is. So, back to the // beginning of time according to Unix // return time.Unix(0, 0) } emailDateStr := e.email.GetHeader("Date") d, err := mail.ParseDate(emailDateStr) if err != nil { return time.Unix(0, 0) } return d } var idre = regexp.MustCompile("<.*?>") func (e *Email) MessageThreadID() string { if e.dummy { return e.forID } ref := e.email.GetHeader("Message-Id") refs := idre.FindAllString(ref, -1) if len(refs) > 0 { return refs[0] } return "" } func (e *Email) MessageThreadReferences() []string { if e.dummy { return nil } // This should be a nicely formatted field that has unique IDs enclosed within <>, and each of those should be // space separated. However, it isn't as simple as this because all sorts of garbage mail clients have been programmed // over the years by people who did not understand what the References field was (I'm looking at you // Comcast, for instance). We can get things like: // // 1) References: Your message of Friday... (Some garbage the programmer thought might be useful) // 2) References: me@mydomain.com (This isn't even a reference, it is the sender's email) // 3) References: (Either a pure bug, or they misread the spec) // // Further to this, we also need to filter out the following: // // 4) References: (The client author places this email as the first in the // reference chain) // 5) References: A pure bug somewhere in the chain repeats a reference // // The RFC has now been cleaned up to exactly specify this field, but we have to assume there are still // 20 year old email clients out there and cater for them. Especially when we are testing with ancient // public email bodies. // ref := e.email.GetHeader("References") // Find all the correctly delimited references, which takes care of 1) and 3) // rawRefs := idre.FindAllString(ref, -1) // Find the message Id, so we can take care of 4) // m := e.MessageThreadID() // Find the From address, so we can deal with 2). Even though ignoring this would be harmless in that we would just // think it is an email we never saw, it is wrong not to deal with here. We can avoid the clutter in the database // by filtering them out. // fa, _ := e.email.AddressList("From") // Make a set, so we can remove duplicates and deal with 5) // set := make(map[string]interface{}) // This will be our final return set, after de-fucking the references // var refs = make([]string, 0, len(rawRefs)) // Now we range through the references that the email has given us and make sure that the reference does // not run afoul of 2), 4) or 5) // for _, r := range rawRefs { // 2) and 5) // if _, repeated := set[r]; r != m && !repeated { set[r] = nil // Technically, From: can have more than one sender (back in the day before email lists // got sorted), we will never see this in practice, but, in for a pound, in for a penny // var found bool = false for _, f := range fa { if r == "<"+f.Address+">" { found = true break } } if !found { // If we got thorough all of those checks, then Phew! Made it! // refs = append(refs, r) } } } return refs } var re = regexp.MustCompile("[Rr][Ee][ \t]*:[ \t]*") func (e *Email) SimplifiedSubject() string { if e.dummy { return "" } subj := e.email.GetHeader("Subject") subj = re.ReplaceAllString(subj, "") return subj } func (e *Email) Subject() string { if e.dummy { if e.child != nil { return e.child.Subject() + " :: node synthesized by https://gatherstars.com/" } return fmt.Sprintf("Placeholder %s - manufactured by https://gatherstars.com/", e.forID) } // Add in the date for a bit of extra information // var sb strings.Builder t := e.GetDate() sb.WriteString(t.UTC().String()) sb.WriteString(" : ") sb.WriteString(strings.Trim(e.email.GetHeader("Subject"), " ")) return sb.String() } func (e *Email) SubjectIsReply() bool { subj := e.email.GetHeader("Subject") return re.MatchString(subj) } func (e *Email) SetNext(next Threadable) { e.next = next } func (e *Email) SetChild(kid Threadable) { e.child = kid if kid != nil { kid.SetParent(e) } } // SetParent allows us to add or change the parent Threadable of this node // func (e *Email) SetParent(parent Threadable) { e.parent = parent } func (e *Email) MakeDummy(forID string) Threadable { return &Email{ dummy: true, forID: forID, } } func (e *Email) IsDummy() bool { return e.dummy } func NewEmail(envelope *enmime.Envelope) Threadable { e := &Email{ email: envelope, dummy: false, } return e } func ExampleThreader_ThreadSlice() { // Emails := loadEmails() - your function to load emails into a slice // // Create a threader and thread using the slice of Threadable in the slice called Emails // threader := NewThreader() sliceRoot, err := threader.ThreadSlice(Emails) if err != nil { fmt.Printf("func ThreadSlice() error = %#v", err) return } // Make sure that number we got back, not including dummies, is the same as we sent in // var nc int Count(sliceRoot, &nc) if nc != 2387 { fmt.Printf("expected %d emails after threading, but got %d back", 2387, nc) } else { fmt.Printf("There are %d test emails", nc) } // Output: There are 2387 test emails } func TestThreader_ThreadSlice(t1 *testing.T) { // Emails := loadEmails() - your function to load emails into a slice // // Create a threader and thread using the slice of Threadable in the slice called Emails // threader := NewThreader() sliceRoot, err := threader.ThreadSlice(Emails) if err != nil { t1.Errorf("func ThreadSlice() error = %#v", err) } // Make sure that number we got back, not including dummies, is the same as we sent in // var nc int Count(sliceRoot, &nc) if nc != 2387 { t1.Errorf("expected %d emails after threading, but got %d back", 2387, nc) } } func ExampleThreader_ThreadRoot() { // Emails := loadEmails() - your function to load emails into a slice // // Create a threader and thread using the slice of Threadable in the slice called Emails // tr := NewThreadableRoot(Emails) threader := NewThreader() treeRoot, err := threader.ThreadRoot(tr) if err != nil { fmt.Printf("func ThreadRoot() error = %#v", err) } if treeRoot == nil { fmt.Printf("received no output from the threading algorithm") } // Make sure that number we got back, not including dummies, is the same as we sent in // var nc int Count(treeRoot, &nc) if nc != 2387 { fmt.Printf("expected %d emails afer threading, but got %d back", 2387, nc) } else { fmt.Printf("There are %d test emails", nc) } // Output: There are 2387 test emails } func TestThreader_ThreadRoot(t1 *testing.T) { // Emails := loadEmails() - your function to load emails into a slice // // Create a threader and thread using the ThreadableRootInterface to traverse the emails // tr := NewThreadableRoot(Emails) threader := NewThreader() treeRoot, err := threader.ThreadRoot(tr) if err != nil { t1.Errorf("ThreadRoot() error = %#v", err) } if treeRoot == nil { t1.Errorf("received no output from the threading algorithm") } // Make sure that number we got back, not including dummies, is the same as we sent in // var nc int Count(treeRoot, &nc) if nc != 2387 { t1.Errorf("expected %d emails after threading, but got %d back", 2387, nc) } } golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/000077500000000000000000000000001444326627400211475ustar00rootroot00000000000000golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/000077500000000000000000000000001444326627400227605ustar00rootroot00000000000000golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/000077500000000000000000000000001444326627400235255ustar00rootroot00000000000000golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0002.b3120c4bcbf3101e661161ee7efcb8bf.eml000066400000000000000000000064331444326627400313650ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: Steve_Burt@cursor-system.com Thu Aug 22 12:46:39 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE12E43C34 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 07:46:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:46:38 +0100 (IST) Received: from n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.76]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MBkTZ05087 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:46:29 +0100 X-Egroups-Return: sentto-2242572-52726-1030016790-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n20.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2002 11:46:30 -0000 X-Sender: steve.burt@cursor-system.com X-Apparently-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 22 Aug 2002 11:46:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 11764 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2002 11:46:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2002 11:46:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mailgateway.cursor-system.com) (62.189.7.27) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2002 11:46:29 -0000 Received: from exchange1.cps.local (unverified) by mailgateway.cursor-system.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.10) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:14:10 +0100 Received: by exchange1.cps.local with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:46:27 +0100 Message-Id: <5EC2AD6D2314D14FB64BDA287D25D9EF12B4F6@exchange1.cps.local> To: "'zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com'" X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) X-Egroups-From: Steve Burt From: Steve Burt X-Yahoo-Profile: pyruse MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com; contact forteana-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:46:18 +0100 Subject: [zzzzteana] RE: Alexander Reply-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Martin A posted: Tassos Papadopoulos, the Greek sculptor behind the plan, judged that the limestone of Mount Kerdylio, 70 miles east of Salonika and not far from the Mount Athos monastic community, was ideal for the patriotic sculpture. As well as Alexander's granite features, 240 ft high and 170 ft wide, a museum, a restored amphitheatre and car park for admiring crowds are planned --------------------- So is this mountain limestone or granite? If it's limestone, it'll weather pretty fast. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/mG3HAA/7gSolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: forteana-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0003.acfc5ad94bbd27118a0d8685d18c89dd.eml000066400000000000000000000075111444326627400314200ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: timc@2ubh.com Thu Aug 22 13:52:59 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0314547C66 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:52:59 +0100 (IST) Received: from n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.71]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MCrdZ07070 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:53:39 +0100 X-Egroups-Return: sentto-2242572-52733-1030020820-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.198] by n16.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2002 12:53:40 -0000 X-Sender: timc@2ubh.com X-Apparently-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 22 Aug 2002 12:53:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 76099 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2002 12:53:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m5.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2002 12:53:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO rhenium.btinternet.com) (194.73.73.93) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2002 12:53:39 -0000 Received: from host217-36-23-185.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.23.185]) by rhenium.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17hrT0-0004gj-00 for forteana@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:53:38 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) To: zzzzteana X-Priority: 3 Message-Id: From: "Tim Chapman" X-Yahoo-Profile: tim2ubh MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com; contact forteana-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:52:38 +0100 Subject: [zzzzteana] Moscow bomber Reply-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Man Threatens Explosion In Moscow Thursday August 22, 2002 1:40 PM MOSCOW (AP) - Security officers on Thursday seized an unidentified man who said he was armed with explosives and threatened to blow up his truck in front of Russia's Federal Security Services headquarters in Moscow, NTV television reported. The officers seized an automatic rifle the man was carrying, then the man got out of the truck and was taken into custody, NTV said. No other details were immediately available. The man had demanded talks with high government officials, the Interfax and ITAR-Tass news agencies said. Ekho Moskvy radio reported that he wanted to talk with Russian President Vladimir Putin. Police and security forces rushed to the Security Service building, within blocks of the Kremlin, Red Square and the Bolshoi Ballet, and surrounded the man, who claimed to have one and a half tons of explosives, the news agencies said. Negotiations continued for about one and a half hours outside the building, ITAR-Tass and Interfax reported, citing witnesses. The man later drove away from the building, under police escort, and drove to a street near Moscow's Olympic Penta Hotel, where authorities held further negotiations with him, the Moscow police press service said. The move appeared to be an attempt by security services to get him to a more secure location. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/mG3HAA/7gSolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: forteana-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0004.e8d5727378ddde5c3be181df593f1712.eml000066400000000000000000000065261444326627400312170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: irregulars-admin@tb.tf Thu Aug 22 14:23:39 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DAE147C66 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:23:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:23:38 +0100 (IST) Received: from web.tb.tf (route-64-131-126-36.telocity.com [64.131.126.36]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MDGOZ07922 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:16:24 +0100 Received: from web.tb.tf (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by web.tb.tf (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MDP9I16418; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:25:09 -0400 Received: from red.harvee.home (red [192.168.25.1] (may be forged)) by web.tb.tf (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MDO4I16408 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:24:04 -0400 Received: from prserv.net (out4.prserv.net [32.97.166.34]) by red.harvee.home (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MDFBD29237 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:15:12 -0400 Received: from [209.202.248.109] (slip-32-103-249-10.ma.us.prserv.net[32.103.249.10]) by prserv.net (out4) with ESMTP id <2002082213150220405qu8jce>; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:15:07 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: @ (Unverified) Message-Id: To: undisclosed-recipient: ; From: Monty Solomon Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: [IRR] Klez: The Virus That Won't Die Sender: irregulars-admin@tb.tf Errors-To: irregulars-admin@tb.tf X-Beenthere: irregulars@tb.tf X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: New home of the TBTF Irregulars mailing list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:15:25 -0400 Klez: The Virus That Won't Die Already the most prolific virus ever, Klez continues to wreak havoc. Andrew Brandt >>From the September 2002 issue of PC World magazine Posted Thursday, August 01, 2002 The Klez worm is approaching its seventh month of wriggling across the Web, making it one of the most persistent viruses ever. And experts warn that it may be a harbinger of new viruses that use a combination of pernicious approaches to go from PC to PC. Antivirus software makers Symantec and McAfee both report more than 2000 new infections daily, with no sign of letup at press time. The British security firm MessageLabs estimates that 1 in every 300 e-mail messages holds a variation of the Klez virus, and says that Klez has already surpassed last summer's SirCam as the most prolific virus ever. And some newer Klez variants aren't merely nuisances--they can carry other viruses in them that corrupt your data. ... http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,103259,00.asp _______________________________________________ Irregulars mailing list Irregulars@tb.tf http://tb.tf/mailman/listinfo/irregulars golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0005.8c3b9e9c0f3f183ddaf7592a11b99957.eml000066400000000000000000000114421444326627400312170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com Thu Aug 22 14:44:07 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 985B247C67 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:44:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:44:04 +0100 (IST) Received: from listman.example.com (listman.example.com [66.187.233.211]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MDgEZ08598 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:42:19 +0100 Received: from listman.example.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by listman.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F26113EE9A; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:42:15 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: exmh-users@listman.example.com Received: from int-mx1.corp.example.com (int-mx1.corp.example.com [172.16.52.254]) by listman.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4ACEF3F4A2 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:38:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by int-mx1.corp.example.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g7MDc0601591 for exmh-users@listman.redhat.com; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:38:00 -0400 Received: from mx1.example.com (mx1.example.com [172.16.48.31]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MDc0Y01587 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:38:00 -0400 Received: from mta03bw.bigpond.com (mta03bw.bigpond.com [139.134.6.86]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MDNVl14108 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:23:31 -0400 Received: from hobbit.linuxworks.com.au ([144.135.24.81]) by mta03bw.bigpond.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 mta03bw May 23 2002 23:53:28) with SMTP id H18Z7300.F6G for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:37:51 +1000 Received: from CPE-203-51-220-31.qld.bigpond.net.au ([203.51.220.31]) by bwmam05.mailsvc.email.bigpond.com(MailRouter V3.0n 44/32989362); 22 Aug 2002 23:37:51 Received: (from tony@localhost) by hobbit.linuxworks.com.au (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g7MDaWX26868; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:36:32 +1000 Message-Id: <200208221336.g7MDaWX26868@hobbit.linuxworks.com.au.nospam> To: Exmh Users Mailing List From: Tony Nugent X-Face: ]IrGs{LrofDtGfsrG!As5=G'2HRr2zt:H>djXb5@v|Dr!jOelxzAZ`!}("]}] Q!)1w#X;)nLlb'XhSu,QL>;)L/l06wsI?rv-xy6%Y1e"BUiV%)mU;]f-5<#U6 UthZ0QrF7\_p#q}*Cn}jd|XT~7P7ik]Q!2u%aTtvc;)zfH\:3f<[a:)M Organization: Linux Works for network X-Mailer: nmh-1.0.4 exmh-2.4 X-Os: Linux-2.4 RedHat 7.2 In-Reply-To: message-id <200208212046.g7LKkqf15798@mail.banirh.com> of Wed, Aug 21 15:46:52 2002 Subject: Re: Insert signature X-Loop: exmh-users@example.com Sender: exmh-users-admin@example.com Errors-To: exmh-users-admin@example.com X-Beenthere: exmh-users@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: exmh-users@example.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EXMH users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:36:32 +1000 On Wed Aug 21 2002 at 15:46, Ulises Ponce wrote: > Hi! > > Is there a command to insert the signature using a combination of keys and not > to have sent the mail to insert it then? I simply put it (them) into my (nmh) component files (components, replcomps, forwcomps and so on). That way you get them when you are editing your message. Also, by using comps files for specific folders you can alter your .sig per folder (and other tricks). See the docs for (n)mh for all the details. There might (must?) also be a way to get sedit to do it, but I've been using gvim as my exmh message editor for a long time now. I load it with a command that loads some email-specific settings, eg, to "syntax" colour-highlight the headers and quoted parts of an email)... it would be possible to map some (vim) keys that would add a sig (or even give a selection of sigs to choose from). And there are all sorts of ways to have randomly-chosen sigs... somewhere at rtfm.mit.edu... ok, here we go: rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/news.answers/signature_finger_faq. (Warning... it's old, May 1995). > Regards, > Ulises Hope this helps. Cheers Tony _______________________________________________ Exmh-users mailing list Exmh-users@redhat.com https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/exmh-users golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0006.ee8b0dba12856155222be180ba122058.eml000066400000000000000000000064451444326627400310070ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: Stewart.Smith@ee.ed.ac.uk Thu Aug 22 14:44:26 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC69D47C66 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:44:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:44:25 +0100 (IST) Received: from n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.90]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MDcOZ08504 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:38:25 +0100 X-Egroups-Return: sentto-2242572-52736-1030023506-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.192] by n6.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2002 13:38:26 -0000 X-Sender: Stewart.Smith@ee.ed.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 22 Aug 2002 13:38:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 48882 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2002 13:38:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2002 13:38:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO postbox.ee.ed.ac.uk) (129.215.80.253) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2002 13:38:24 -0000 Received: from ee.ed.ac.uk (sxs@dunblane [129.215.34.86]) by postbox.ee.ed.ac.uk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g7MDcNi28645 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:38:23 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <3D64E94E.8060301@ee.ed.ac.uk> Organization: Scottish Microelectronics Centre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.1b) Gecko/20020628 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com References: <3D64F325.11319.61EA648@localhost> From: Stewart Smith X-Yahoo-Profile: stochasticus MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com; contact forteana-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:38:22 +0100 Subject: Re: [zzzzteana] Nothing like mama used to make Reply-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > in adding cream to spaghetti carbonara, which has the same effect on pasta as > making a pizza a deep-pie; I just had to jump in here as Carbonara is one of my favourites to make and ask what the hell are you supposed to use instead of cream? I've never seen a recipe that hasn't used this. Personally I use low fat creme fraiche because it works quite nicely but the only time I've seen an supposedly authentic recipe for carbonara it was identical to mine (cream, eggs and lots of fresh parmesan) except for the creme fraiche. Stew -- Stewart Smith Scottish Microelectronics Centre, University of Edinburgh. http://www.ee.ed.ac.uk/~sxs/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/mG3HAA/7gSolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: forteana-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0007.c75188382f64b090022fa3b095b020b0.eml000066400000000000000000000061661444326627400306550ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: martin@srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk Thu Aug 22 14:54:39 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16FC743F99 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:54:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:54:39 +0100 (IST) Received: from n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.69]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MDoxZ08960 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:50:59 +0100 X-Egroups-Return: sentto-2242572-52737-1030024261-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.95] by n14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2002 13:51:01 -0000 X-Sender: martin@srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 22 Aug 2002 13:51:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 71894 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2002 13:51:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m7.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2002 13:51:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO haymarket.ed.ac.uk) (129.215.128.53) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2002 13:51:00 -0000 Received: from srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk (srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk [129.215.117.0]) by haymarket.ed.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MDow310334 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:50:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from EMS-SRV0/SpoolDir by srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 22 Aug 02 14:50:58 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by EMS-SRV0 (Mercury 1.44); 22 Aug 02 14:50:31 +0000 Organization: Management School To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Message-Id: <3D64FA3C.13325.63A5960@localhost> Priority: normal In-Reply-To: <3D64E94E.8060301@ee.ed.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-Description: Mail message body From: "Martin Adamson" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com; contact forteana-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:50:31 +0100 Subject: Re: [zzzzteana] Nothing like mama used to make Reply-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > I just had to jump in here as Carbonara is one of my favourites to make and > ask > what the hell are you supposed to use instead of cream? Isn't it just basically a mixture of beaten egg and bacon (or pancetta, really)? You mix in the raw egg to the cooked pasta and the heat of the pasta cooks the egg. That's my understanding. Martin ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/mG3HAA/7gSolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: forteana-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0008.20bc0b4ba2d99aae1c7098069f611a9b.eml000066400000000000000000000073671444326627400312520ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: martin@srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk Thu Aug 22 14:54:40 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3D7B47C66 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:54:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:54:40 +0100 (IST) Received: from n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.66]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MDt8Z09193 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:55:10 +0100 X-Egroups-Return: sentto-2242572-52738-1030024499-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.94] by n11.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2002 13:55:03 -0000 X-Sender: martin@srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 22 Aug 2002 13:54:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 43039 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2002 13:54:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2002 13:54:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO haymarket.ed.ac.uk) (129.215.128.53) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2002 13:54:58 -0000 Received: from srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk (srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk [129.215.117.0]) by haymarket.ed.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MDsv311745 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:54:57 +0100 (BST) Received: from EMS-SRV0/SpoolDir by srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 22 Aug 02 14:54:56 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by EMS-SRV0 (Mercury 1.44); 22 Aug 02 14:54:29 +0000 Organization: Management School To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Message-Id: <3D64FB27.18538.63DEC17@localhost> Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-Description: Mail message body From: "Martin Adamson" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com; contact forteana-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:54:25 +0100 Subject: [zzzzteana] Playboy wants to go out with a bang Reply-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by dogma.slashnull.org id g7MDt8Z09193 The Scotsman - 22 August 2002 Playboy wants to go out with a bang AN AGEING Berlin playboy has come up with an unusual offer to lure women into his bed - by promising the last woman he sleeps with an inheritance of 250,000 (�160,000). Rolf Eden, 72, a Berlin disco owner famous for his countless sex partners, said he could imagine no better way to die than in the arms of an attractive young woman - preferably under 30. "I put it all in my last will and testament - the last woman who sleeps with me gets all the money," Mr Eden told Bild newspaper. "I want to pass away in the most beautiful moment of my life. First a lot of fun with a beautiful woman, then wild sex, a final orgasm - and it will all end with a heart attack and then I�m gone." Mr Eden, who is selling his nightclub this year, said applications should be sent in quickly because of his age. "It could end very soon," he said. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/mG3HAA/7gSolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: forteana-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0009.435ae292d75abb1ca492dcc2d5cf1570.eml000066400000000000000000000067211444326627400313230ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: Stewart.Smith@ee.ed.ac.uk Thu Aug 22 15:05:07 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF86747C67 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:05:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:05:01 +0100 (IST) Received: from n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.102]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7ME1MZ09279 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:01:22 +0100 X-Egroups-Return: sentto-2242572-52739-1030024883-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.195] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2002 14:01:23 -0000 X-Sender: Stewart.Smith@ee.ed.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 22 Aug 2002 14:01:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 45116 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2002 14:01:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2002 14:01:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO postbox.ee.ed.ac.uk) (129.215.80.253) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2002 14:01:22 -0000 Received: from ee.ed.ac.uk (sxs@dunblane [129.215.34.86]) by postbox.ee.ed.ac.uk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g7ME1Li02942 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:01:21 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <3D64EEB0.2050502@ee.ed.ac.uk> Organization: Scottish Microelectronics Centre User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; en-US; rv:1.1b) Gecko/20020628 X-Accept-Language: en, en-us To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com References: <3D64FA3C.13325.63A5960@localhost> From: Stewart Smith X-Yahoo-Profile: stochasticus MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com; contact forteana-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:01:20 +0100 Subject: Re: [zzzzteana] Nothing like mama used to make Reply-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Martin Adamson wrote: > > Isn't it just basically a mixture of beaten egg and bacon (or pancetta, > really)? You mix in the raw egg to the cooked pasta and the heat of the pasta > cooks the egg. That's my understanding. > You're probably right, mine's just the same but with the cream added to the eggs. I guess I should try it without. Actually looking on the internet for a recipe I found this one from possibly one of the scariest people I've ever seen, and he's a US Congressman: That's one of the worst non-smiles ever. Stew ps. Apologies if any of the list's Maine residents voted for this man, you won't do it again once you've seen this pic. -- Stewart Smith Scottish Microelectronics Centre, University of Edinburgh. http://www.ee.ed.ac.uk/~sxs/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/mG3HAA/7gSolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: forteana-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0010.4996141de3f21e858c22f88231a9f463.eml000066400000000000000000000206721444326627400307120ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: martin@srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk Thu Aug 22 15:05:07 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A0C347C68 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:05:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:05:03 +0100 (IST) Received: from n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.102]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7ME1rZ09290 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:01:54 +0100 X-Egroups-Return: sentto-2242572-52740-1030024915-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.194] by n34.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2002 14:01:55 -0000 X-Sender: martin@srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk X-Apparently-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 22 Aug 2002 14:01:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 59494 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2002 14:01:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m12.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2002 14:01:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO haymarket.ed.ac.uk) (129.215.128.53) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2002 14:01:54 -0000 Received: from srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk (srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk [129.215.117.0]) by haymarket.ed.ac.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7ME1r313981 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:01:53 +0100 (BST) Received: from EMS-SRV0/SpoolDir by srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 22 Aug 02 15:01:52 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by EMS-SRV0 (Mercury 1.44); 22 Aug 02 15:01:34 +0000 Organization: Management School To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Message-Id: <3D64FCD2.20705.6447320@localhost> Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-Description: Mail message body From: "Martin Adamson" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com; contact forteana-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:01:33 +0100 Subject: [zzzzteana] Meaningful sentences Reply-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by dogma.slashnull.org id g7ME1rZ09290 The Scotsman Thu 22 Aug 2002 Meaningful sentences Tracey Lawson If you ever wanted to look like "one of the most dangerous inmates in prison history", as one judge described Charles Bronson, now�s your chance. Bronson - the serial hostage taker, not the movie star - has written a health and fitness guide in which he shares some of the secrets behind his legendary muscle power. Solitary Fitness - a title which bears testament to the fact that Bronson, 48, has spent 24 of his 28 prison years in solitary confinement - explains how he has turned himself into a lean, mean, fitness machine while living 23 hours a day in a space just 12 feet by eight feet, on a diet of scrubs grub and at virtually no cost. The book is aimed at those who want to get fabulously fit without spending a fortune on gym memberships, protein supplements or designer trainers, and starts with a fierce attack on some of the expensive myths churned out by the exercise industry. "I pick up a fitness mag, I start to laugh and I wipe my arse with it," is the opening paragraph penned by Bronson. "It�s a joke and a big con and they call me a criminal!" You can�t help feeling he has a point. This is not the first book that Bronson has written from behind bars, having already published Birdman Opens His Mind, which features drawings and poems created by Bronson while in prison. And he is not the first prisoner to discover creative expression while residing at Her Majesty�s pleasure. Jimmy Boyle, the Scots sculptor and novelist, discovered his artistic talents when he was sent to Barlinnie Prison�s famous special unit, which aimed to help inmates put their violent pasts behind them by teaching them how to express their emotions artistically. Boyle was sentenced to life for the murder of "Babs" Rooney in 1967. Once released, he moved to Edinburgh where he has become a respected artist. His first novel, Hero of the Underworld, was published in 1999 and his autobiography, A Sense of Freedom, was made into an award-winning film. Hugh Collins was jailed for life in 1977 for the murder of William Mooney in Glasgow, and in his first year in Barlinnie prison stabbed three prison officers, earning him an extra seven-year sentence. But, after being transferred to the same unit that Boyle attended, he learned to sculpt and developed an interest in art. He later published Autobiography of a Murderer, a frank account of Glasgow�s criminal culture in the 1960s, which received critical praise. And Lord Archer doesn�t seem to have had trouble continuing to write the books that have made him millions while in jail. He recently signed a three-book deal with Macmillan publishers worth a reported �10 million, and is no doubt scribbling away as we speak. So why is it that men like Collins, Bronson and Boyle, who can be so destructive towards society on the outside, can become so creative once stuck on the inside? Steve Richards, Bronson�s publisher, has published many books about criminal figures and believes the roots of this phenomenon are both pragmatic and profound. He says: "Prison is sometimes the first time some criminals will ever have known a stable environment, and this can be the first time they have the chance to focus on their creative skills. "It may also be the first time that they have really had the chance of an education, if their early years have been hard. It could be the first time anyone has offered them the chance to explore their creative talents." However, Richards believes the reasons are also deeper than that. He says: "Once they are behind bars, the cold light of day hits them, and they examine the very essence of who they are. "They ask themselves, am I a man who wants to be remembered for violence? Or am I a man who can contribute to society, who can be remembered for something good?" Bronson - who was born Michael Gordon Peterson, but changed his name to that of the Hollywood star of the Death Wish films - has, so far, been remembered mainly for things bad. He was originally jailed for seven years for armed robbery in 1974, and has had a series of sentences added to his original term over the years as a result of attacking people in prison. In 2000 he was jailed for life after being convicted of holding a teacher hostage for nearly two days during a jail siege. Standing five feet ten and a half inches tall and weighing 210lbs, he is renowned for his strength. He has bent metal cell doors with his bare hands and does up to 3,000 - yes, 3,000 - press-ups a day. As he puts it: "I can hit a man 20 times in four seconds, I can push 132 press ups in 60 seconds." But judging by our current obsession with health and exercise, Solitary Fitness might be the book which will see Bronson�s face sitting on every coffee table in the land. He might be the man to give us the dream body which so many so-called fitness gurus promise but fail to motivate us into. Because Bronson has learned to use words as powerfully as he can use his fists. "All this crap about high-protein drinks, pills, diets, it�s just a load of bollocks and a multi-million-pound racket," he writes, in what can only be described as a refreshingly honest style. "We can all be fat lazy bastards, it�s our choice, I�m sick of hearing and reading about excuses, if you stuff your face with shit you become shit, that�s logical to me." As motivational mantras go, that might be just the kick up the, er, backside we all needed. Solitary Fitness by Charles Bronson is published by Mirage Publishing and will be available in bookstores from October at �7.99 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/mG3HAA/7gSolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: forteana-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0012.d354b2d2f24d1036caf1374dd94f4c94.eml000066400000000000000000000071711444326627400311660ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net Thu Aug 22 15:25:29 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B48D543F99 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:25:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:25:28 +0100 (IST) Received: from usw-sf-list2.sourceforge.net (usw-sf-fw2.sourceforge.net [216.136.171.252]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MEI8Z09886 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:18:08 +0100 Received: from usw-sf-list1-b.sourceforge.net ([10.3.1.13] helo=usw-sf-list1.sourceforge.net) by usw-sf-list2.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Exim 3.31-VA-mm2 #1 (Debian)) id 17hskl-0002W7-00; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 07:16:03 -0700 Received: from mail-gr-oh.networksonline.com ([65.163.204.6]) by usw-sf-list1.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Exim 3.31-VA-mm2 #1 (Debian)) id 17hskN-0008Ox-00 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 07:15:39 -0700 Received: from mordor (mordor.networksonline.com [65.163.204.19]) by mail-gr-oh.networksonline.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C06C537794 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:13:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <001001c249e6$863c4e00$13cca341@networksonline.com> From: "NOI Administrator" To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Subject: [SAtalk] SA CGI Configurator Scripts Sender: spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net Errors-To: spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net X-Beenthere: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9-sf.net Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Talk about SpamAssassin List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: X-Original-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:16:36 -0400 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:16:36 -0400 I have been trying to research via SA mirrors and search engines if a canned script exists giving clients access to their user_prefs options via a web-based CGI interface. Numerous ISPs provide this feature to clients, but so far I can find nothing. Our configuration uses Amavis-Postfix and ClamAV for virus filtering and Procmail with SpamAssassin for spam filtering. I would prefer not to have to write a script myself, but will appreciate any suggestions. ------------------------------------------------------- This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old cell phone? Get a new here for FREE! https://www.inphonic.com/r.asp?r=sourceforge1&refcode1=vs3390 _______________________________________________ Spamassassin-talk mailing list Spamassassin-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/spamassassin-talk golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0013.ff597adee000d073ae72200b0af00cd1.eml000066400000000000000000000066111444326627400312710ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net Thu Aug 22 15:25:29 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE2D043F9B for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:25:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:25:29 +0100 (IST) Received: from usw-sf-list2.sourceforge.net (usw-sf-fw2.sourceforge.net [216.136.171.252]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MENlZ09984 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:23:47 +0100 Received: from usw-sf-list1-b.sourceforge.net ([10.3.1.13] helo=usw-sf-list1.sourceforge.net) by usw-sf-list2.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Exim 3.31-VA-mm2 #1 (Debian)) id 17hsof-00042r-00; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 07:20:05 -0700 Received: from vivi.uptime.at ([62.116.87.11] helo=mail.uptime.at) by usw-sf-list1.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Exim 3.31-VA-mm2 #1 (Debian)) id 17hsoM-0000Ge-00 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 07:19:47 -0700 Received: from [192.168.0.4] (chello062178142216.4.14.vie.surfer.at [62.178.142.216]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.uptime.at (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g7MEI7Vp022036 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:18:07 +0200 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1309 From: David H=?ISO-8859-1?B?9g==?=hn To: Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Trusted: YES X-From-Laptop: YES Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailscanner: Nothing found, baby Subject: [SAdev] Interesting approach to Spam handling.. Sender: spamassassin-devel-admin@example.sourceforge.net Errors-To: spamassassin-devel-admin@example.sourceforge.net X-Beenthere: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9-sf.net Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: SpamAssassin Developers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: X-Original-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:19:48 +0200 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:19:48 +0200 Hello, have you seen and discussed this article and his approach? Thank you http://www.paulgraham.com/spam.html -- "Hell, there are no rules here-- we're trying to accomplish something." -- Thomas Alva Edison ------------------------------------------------------- This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old cell phone? Get a new here for FREE! https://www.inphonic.com/r.asp?r=sourceforge1&refcode1=vs3390 _______________________________________________ Spamassassin-devel mailing list Spamassassin-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/spamassassin-devel golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0015.a9ff8d7550759f6ab62cc200bdf156e7.eml000066400000000000000000000066731444326627400312760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net Thu Aug 22 16:06:55 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B14047C66 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:06:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:06:53 +0100 (IST) Received: from usw-sf-list2.sourceforge.net (usw-sf-fw2.sourceforge.net [216.136.171.252]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MF4sZ11366 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:04:54 +0100 Received: from usw-sf-list1-b.sourceforge.net ([10.3.1.13] helo=usw-sf-list1.sourceforge.net) by usw-sf-list2.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Exim 3.31-VA-mm2 #1 (Debian)) id 17htRL-0005ql-00; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:00:03 -0700 Received: from www.ctyme.com ([209.237.228.10] helo=darwin.ctyme.com) by usw-sf-list1.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Cipher TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 3.31-VA-mm2 #1 (Debian)) id 17htQZ-0001jw-00 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 07:59:15 -0700 Received: from m206-56.dsl.tsoft.com ([198.144.206.56] helo=perkel.com) by darwin.ctyme.com with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17htRO-0003Mw-00 for spamassassin-devel@lists.sourceforge.net; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:00:06 -0700 Message-Id: <3D64FC22.4040409@perkel.com> From: Marc Perkel User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.1b) Gecko/20020721 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [SAdev] Party in San Francisco tonight Sender: spamassassin-devel-admin@example.sourceforge.net Errors-To: spamassassin-devel-admin@example.sourceforge.net X-Beenthere: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9-sf.net Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: SpamAssassin Developers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: X-Original-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 07:58:42 -0700 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 07:58:42 -0700 I don't know how make of you are in the Bay Area but EFF is having a benifit party ast the DNA Lounge in San Francisco tonight. Wil Weaton (Wesley Crussher from star Trek TNG) will fight Barney the Dinasour. Come on by if you're not doing anything. ------------------------------------------------------- This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old cell phone? Get a new here for FREE! https://www.inphonic.com/r.asp?r=sourceforge1&refcode1=vs3390 _______________________________________________ Spamassassin-devel mailing list Spamassassin-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/spamassassin-devel golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0016.d82758030e304d41fb3f4ebbb7d9dd91.eml000066400000000000000000000076171444326627400312630ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net Thu Aug 22 16:27:25 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF2DD43F9B for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:27:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:27:24 +0100 (IST) Received: from usw-sf-list2.sourceforge.net (usw-sf-fw2.sourceforge.net [216.136.171.252]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MFJHZ11964 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:19:17 +0100 Received: from usw-sf-list1-b.sourceforge.net ([10.3.1.13] helo=usw-sf-list1.sourceforge.net) by usw-sf-list2.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Exim 3.31-VA-mm2 #1 (Debian)) id 17htfq-0001G0-00; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:15:02 -0700 Received: from www.ctyme.com ([209.237.228.10] helo=darwin.ctyme.com) by usw-sf-list1.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Cipher TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 3.31-VA-mm2 #1 (Debian)) id 17htfa-0006Zq-00 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:14:47 -0700 Received: from m206-56.dsl.tsoft.com ([198.144.206.56] helo=perkel.com) by darwin.ctyme.com with asmtp (TLSv1:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17htgP-0004te-00; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:15:37 -0700 Message-Id: <3D64FFC4.5010908@perkel.com> From: Marc Perkel User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.1b) Gecko/20020721 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Theo Van Dinter Cc: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [SAdev] Live Rule Updates after Release ??? References: <3D64F4E8.7040000@perkel.com> <20020822151134.GD6369@kluge.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: spamassassin-devel-admin@example.sourceforge.net Errors-To: spamassassin-devel-admin@example.sourceforge.net X-Beenthere: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9-sf.net Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: SpamAssassin Developers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: X-Original-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:14:12 -0700 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:14:12 -0700 Yes - great minds think alike. But even withput eval rules it would be very useful. It would allow us to respond quickly to spammer's tricks. Theo Van Dinter wrote: > On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 07:27:52AM -0700, Marc Perkel wrote: > >>Has anyone though of the idea of live updates of rules after release? The >>idea being that the user can run a cron job once a week or so and get the >>new default rule set. This would allow us to react faster to: > > > I suggested this a few months ago. I don't remember the details of what > came out of it except that it would only be useful for non-eval rules > since those require code changes. > ------------------------------------------------------- This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old cell phone? Get a new here for FREE! https://www.inphonic.com/r.asp?r=sourceforge1&refcode1=vs3390 _______________________________________________ Spamassassin-devel mailing list Spamassassin-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/spamassassin-devel golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0017.d81093a2182fc9135df6d9158a8ebfd6.eml000066400000000000000000000063661444326627400312210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie Thu Aug 22 16:27:21 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A28A43F99 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:27:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:27:21 +0100 (IST) Received: from lugh.tuatha.org (root@lugh.tuatha.org [194.125.145.45]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MFQmZ12280 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:26:48 +0100 Received: from lugh (root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07188; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:25:32 +0100 Received: from moe.jinny.ie ([193.120.171.3]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07145 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:25:24 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: lugh.tuatha.org: Host [193.120.171.3] claimed to be moe.jinny.ie Received: from jlooney.jinny.ie (unknown [193.120.171.2]) by moe.jinny.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 938BD7FC46; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:25:23 +0100 (IST) Received: by jlooney.jinny.ie (Postfix, from userid 500) id 4F57189D; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:25:45 +0100 (IST) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:25:45 +0100 From: "John P. Looney" To: linux-raid@vger.kernel.org Cc: ilug@linux.ie Message-Id: <20020822152545.GJ3670@jinny.ie> Reply-To: valen@tuatha.org Mail-Followup-To: linux-raid@vger.kernel.org, ilug@linux.ie References: <200208172056.g7HKuHm05754@raq.iceblink.org> <1029624922.14769.119.camel@atherton> <20020819140815.GY26818@jinny.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020819140815.GY26818@jinny.ie> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Os: Red Hat Linux 7.3/Linux 2.4.18-3 X-Url: http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~valen X-Gnupg-Publickey: http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~valen/public.asc Subject: [ILUG] Re: Problems with RAID1 on cobalt raq3 Sender: ilug-admin@linux.ie Errors-To: ilug-admin@linux.ie X-Mailman-Version: 1.1 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Irish Linux Users' Group X-Beenthere: ilug@linux.ie On Mon, Aug 19, 2002 at 03:08:16PM +0100, John P. Looney mentioned: > This is likely because to get it to boot, like the cobalt, I'm actually > passing root=/dev/hda5 to the kernel, not /dev/md0. Just to solve this...the reason I was booting the box with root=/dev/hda5, not /dev/md0 was because /dev/md0 wasn't booting - it would barf with 'can't find init'. It turns out that this is because I was populating md0 with tar. Which seems to have 'issues' with crosslinked files - for instance, it was trying to make a hard link of glibc.so to hda - and failing. It was only as I did it again with a friend present, that he spotted the errors, and queried them. We noticed that the hard linked files just didn't exist on the new rootfs. When we duplicated the filesystems with dump instead of tar, it worked fine, I was able to tell lilo to use root=/dev/md0 and everything worked. Woohoo. Kate -- Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information. List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0019.a8a1b2767e83b3be653e4af0148e1897.eml000066400000000000000000000151421444326627400311260ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com Thu Aug 22 16:37:41 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DB9843F99 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:37:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:37:40 +0100 (IST) Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MFbVZ12617 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:37:32 +0100 Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8D5029409A; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:35:09 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: fork@example.com Received: from sunserver.permafrost.net (u172n16.hfx.eastlink.ca [24.222.172.16]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3703F294099 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 08:34:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.123.179] (helo=permafrost.net) by sunserver.permafrost.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17htxj-0008Ad-00 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:33:31 -0300 Message-Id: <3D6505C3.2020405@permafrost.net> From: Owen Byrne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020530 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: fork@example.com Subject: The case for spam Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: fork-admin@xent.com Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com X-Beenthere: fork@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:39:47 -0300 SpamAssassin is hurting democracy! Owen --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/opinion/3900215.htm Internet can level the political playing field By Mike McCurry and Larry Purpuro NOT many months from now, people across the country will experience one of the great recurring features of American democracy. At shopping malls, on factory floors, at church socials and even on our front stoops, we will be approached by individuals who want to represent us in public office. While chances are high that we won't know them personally, they will walk up to us, offer a handshake and a flier and ask for our votes. Just as technology is affecting every other area of communication, it has begun to affect the way political candidates communicate with voters. In this year's GOP gubernatorial primary, California Secretary of State Bill Jones, who faced better-funded candidates, acquired the e-mail addresses of more than a million potential California voters and sent each an unsolicited e-mail asking for support. That day, he might have chosen any of the more traditional -- and more expensive -- methods of contacting voters, such as direct mail, radio spots or TV ads. But he spent only about 2 cents per message, instead of 35 cents or more per message for direct mail or in another medium. Had Jones chosen direct mail, radio or TV, that communication would have been equally ``unsolicited,'' as defined in the e-mail world. Few voters would have ``opted in'' to receive campaign information from Jones through any of those channels. The response to Jones' e-mail effort, however, was swift and intense. He was lambasted by anti-spam advocates, and media coverage was almost entirely negative. To be fair, some of Jones' tactics could have been refined. He used a less-than-perfect list and no standard-practice ``paid for'' disclaimer in the message. His detractors, however, attacked him not for his tactical miscues but because the e-mail was sent unsolicited. In fact, Jones' online campaign may have been his most visible asset. In an era of cynicism toward money in politics -- money typically spent on other unsolicited communication mediums -- Jones tried to level the playing field. No one likes commercial spam. It is irrelevant and untargeted and can be highly intrusive and even offensive. But as a sophisticated society, it's time to differentiate commercial spam from very different unsolicited e-mail sent by political candidates to voters. The debate is particularly relevant in light of legislation in Congress that would constitute the first federal law to directly address spam. We believe e-mail is no more intrusive than direct mail, telemarketing or TV advertising when it comes to politicians seeking to reach voters. A simple link in good e-mail campaigns allows recipients to opt out of future mailings. Direct mail takes at least a phone call or stamp to be taken off a list, and viewers must repeatedly endure TV ads. When a candidate lacks a large campaign war chest, he or she can use the Internet to provide constituents with information to better prepare them to perform their civic duty of casting educated votes. With more than 60 percent of all potential voters in this country possessing e-mail accounts, it makes sense that political candidates use this medium. Candidates might avoid some of the tactical problems encountered by the Jones campaign if they use the technologies available today that better ensure quality of e-mail lists and target content to specific recipient groups. But the broader point remains. When a political candidate sends a voter an e-mail, that recipient can choose to delete the message without opening it, unsubscribe from the list, read it or even reply and engage the sender. That choice should belong to the voter -- not to anti-spam advocates whose efforts are better focused on commercial e-mail. Political candidates should be free to communicate with voters as best they can, and let voters decide what to do with that information. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike McCurry, former press secretary for President Clinton, is CEO of an advocacy management and communications software company. Larry Purpuro, the former Republican National Committee deputy chief of staff, is founder and president of a political e-marketing firm. This was written for the Los Angeles Times. http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0020.ef397cef16f8041242e3b6560e168053.eml000066400000000000000000000051041444326627400307500ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: iiu-admin@taint.org Thu Aug 22 17:08:44 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B989743F9B for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:08:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:08:43 +0100 (IST) Received: from dogma.slashnull.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MG0MZ13369; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:00:22 +0100 Received: from hawk.dcu.ie (mail.dcu.ie [136.206.1.5]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MFxBZ13285 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:59:11 +0100 Received: from dcu.ie (136.206.21.115) by hawk.dcu.ie (6.0.040) id 3D6203D3000136AD for iiu@taint.org; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:59:17 +0100 Message-Id: <3D650A2D.1000301@dcu.ie> From: Bernard Michael Tyers User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020530 X-Accept-Language: ga, en-ie, eu, en-us, de-at, as MIME-Version: 1.0 To: iiu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [IIU] Eircom aDSL Nat'ing Sender: iiu-admin@taint.org Errors-To: iiu-admin@taint.org X-Beenthere: iiu@iiu.taint.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: iiu@taint.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Irish Internet Users List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:58:37 +0100 Hi all, apologies for the possible silly question (i don't think it is, but), but is Eircom's aDSL service NAT'ed? and what implications would that have for VoIP? I know there are difficulties with VoIP or connecting to clients connected to a NAT'ed network from the internet wild (i.e. machines with static, real IPs) any help pointers would be helpful, cheers -- rgrds, Bernard -- Bernard Tyers * National Centre for Sensor Research * P:353-1-700-5273 * E: bernard.tyers@dcu.ie * W: www.physics.dcu.ie/~bty * L:N117 _______________________________________________ IIU mailing list IIU@iiu.taint.org http://iiu.taint.org/mailman/listinfo/iiu golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0021.f8e73bdba7277d967af4d561f0402129.eml000066400000000000000000000065141444326627400311240ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: robert.chambers@baesystems.com Thu Aug 22 17:19:36 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2AD843F99 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:19:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:19:26 +0100 (IST) Received: from n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.92]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MGBSZ13944 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:11:28 +0100 X-Egroups-Return: sentto-2242572-52742-1030032689-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.196] by n8.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2002 16:11:29 -0000 X-Sender: robert.chambers@baesystems.com X-Apparently-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 22 Aug 2002 16:11:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 71045 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2002 16:11:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2002 16:11:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.74) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2002 16:11:28 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.174] by n19.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2002 16:11:27 -0000 To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000701c248f5$1cd98500$508827d9@b5w3e9> User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "uncle_slacky" X-Originating-Ip: 20.138.254.2 X-Yahoo-Profile: uncle_slacky MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com; contact forteana-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:11:27 -0000 Subject: [zzzzteana] Re: Australian Catholic Kiddie Perv Steps Aside Reply-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --- In forteana@y..., "D.McMann" wrote: > Robert Moaby, 33, who sent death threats to staff, was also jailed > for hoarding indecent pictures of children on his home computer. > ========= > > Hmm, if I didn't trust our government and secret police, I could look at > this another way.... There is a bit of circumstantial evidence - apparently some MT listers were approached by him (via email) - a little research in dejanews/google groups showed a number of messages from him, clearly hoping to contact girls, appearing in "alt.teens" and similar groups - I just tried a Google Groups search on "Robert Moaby" and some of them came top of the list. Note for Marie - "MT" stands for Mark Thomas, a slightly slimmer, UK version of your Michael Moore - the mailing list is named after him. Rob ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/mG3HAA/7gSolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: forteana-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0022.7241da4491c49b50c0470a3638ee35c4.eml000066400000000000000000000057731444326627400307510ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie Thu Aug 22 17:19:31 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6622747C69 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:19:23 +0100 (IST) Received: from lugh.tuatha.org (root@lugh.tuatha.org [194.125.145.45]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MGJoZ14241 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:19:50 +0100 Received: from lugh (root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09942; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:18:58 +0100 Received: from smtpstore.strencom.net (ns1.strencom.net [217.75.0.66]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09917 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:18:50 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: lugh.tuatha.org: Host ns1.strencom.net [217.75.0.66] claimed to be smtpstore.strencom.net Received: from enterprise.wasptech.com (mail.wasptech.com [217.75.2.106]) by smtpstore.strencom.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C105CEE88; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:31:15 +0000 (AZOST) X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [ILUG] Sun Solaris.. Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:13:01 +0100 Message-Id: <45130FBE2F203649A4BABDB848A9C9D00E9C8A@enterprise.wasptech.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-Tnef-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ILUG] Sun Solaris.. Thread-Index: AcJJ9p29v19nVAypRv25aSssWGeNQAAABtrw From: "Fergal Moran" To: "Kiall Mac Innes" , "ILUG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by lugh.tuatha.org id RAA09917 Sender: ilug-admin@linux.ie Errors-To: ilug-admin@linux.ie X-Mailman-Version: 1.1 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Irish Linux Users' Group X-Beenthere: ilug@linux.ie In a nutshell - Solaris is Suns own flavour of UNIX. > -----Original Message----- > From: Kiall Mac Innes [mailto:kiall@redpie.com] > Sent: 22 August 2002 17:23 > To: ILUG > Subject: [ILUG] Sun Solaris.. > > > Can someone explain what type of operating system Solaris > is... as ive never seen or used it i dont know wheather to > get a server from Sun or from DELL i would prefer a linux > based server and Sun seems to be the one for that but im not > sure if Solaris is a distro of linux or a completely > different operating system? can someone explain... > > Kiall Mac Innes > > > -- > Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie > http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for > (un)subscription information. List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie > -- Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information. List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0023.b4a61a2990263e8825246e41a8d78399.eml000066400000000000000000000050471444326627400306350ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: robert.chambers@baesystems.com Thu Aug 22 17:19:36 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1E1343F9B for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:19:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:19:26 +0100 (IST) Received: from n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.79]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MGHeZ14192 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:17:41 +0100 X-Egroups-Return: sentto-2242572-52743-1030033059-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n23.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2002 16:17:41 -0000 X-Sender: robert.chambers@baesystems.com X-Apparently-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 22 Aug 2002 16:17:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 96345 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2002 16:17:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2002 16:17:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com) (66.218.66.65) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2002 16:17:40 -0000 Received: from [66.218.67.189] by n10.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2002 16:17:40 -0000 To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Message-Id: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster From: "uncle_slacky" X-Originating-Ip: 20.138.254.2 X-Yahoo-Profile: uncle_slacky MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com; contact forteana-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:17:39 -0000 Subject: [zzzzteana] Which Muppet Are You? Reply-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apols if this has been posted before: http://www.pinkpaperclips.net/subs/quiz2.html Rob ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/mG3HAA/7gSolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: forteana-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0024.771af861a302951df7630ec4ff1965a2.eml000066400000000000000000000045701444326627400310410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie Thu Aug 22 17:19:25 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD34B47C67 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:19:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:19:21 +0100 (IST) Received: from lugh.tuatha.org (root@lugh.tuatha.org [194.125.145.45]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MGHJZ14177 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:17:19 +0100 Received: from lugh (root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09581; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:16:28 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: lugh.tuatha.org: Host root@localhost [127.0.0.1] claimed to be lugh Received: from redpie.com (redpie.com [216.122.135.208] (may be forged)) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09518 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:16:08 +0100 Received: from justin ([194.46.28.223]) by redpie.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA05201 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:15:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "Kiall Mac Innes" To: "ILUG" Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:23:15 +0100 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Importance: Normal Subject: [ILUG] Sun Solaris.. Sender: ilug-admin@linux.ie Errors-To: ilug-admin@linux.ie X-Mailman-Version: 1.1 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Irish Linux Users' Group X-Beenthere: ilug@linux.ie Can someone explain what type of operating system Solaris is... as ive never seen or used it i dont know wheather to get a server from Sun or from DELL i would prefer a linux based server and Sun seems to be the one for that but im not sure if Solaris is a distro of linux or a completely different operating system? can someone explain... Kiall Mac Innes -- Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information. List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0025.64d0382de54b9e4c5b4200173133b8d7.eml000066400000000000000000000051231444326627400307410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: timc@2ubh.com Thu Aug 22 17:31:00 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A97BE43F99 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:30:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:30:58 +0100 (IST) Received: from n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.72]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MGOFZ14344 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:24:16 +0100 X-Egroups-Return: sentto-2242572-52744-1030033454-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.67.201] by n17.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 22 Aug 2002 16:24:16 -0000 X-Sender: timc@2ubh.com X-Apparently-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 22 Aug 2002 16:24:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 12796 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2002 16:24:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.216) by m9.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 22 Aug 2002 16:24:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO carbon) (194.73.73.92) by mta1.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2002 16:24:15 -0000 Received: from host217-36-23-185.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.36.23.185]) by carbon with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 17huko-0000JF-00 for forteana@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:24:14 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com X-Priority: 3 Message-Id: From: "Tim Chapman" X-Yahoo-Profile: tim2ubh MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com; contact forteana-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:23:28 +0100 Subject: Re: [zzzzteana] Which Muppet Are You? Reply-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Apols if this has been posted before: > > http://www.pinkpaperclips.net/subs/quiz2.html > So, anyone who isn't Beaker? TimC Meep ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> 4 DVDs Free +s&p Join Now http://us.click.yahoo.com/pt6YBB/NXiEAA/mG3HAA/7gSolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: forteana-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0026.6baf1aea162ccb9a6e9f142c0715ceb4.eml000066400000000000000000000070611444326627400314560ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie Thu Aug 22 17:45:53 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08BC143F99 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:45:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:45:53 +0100 (IST) Received: from lugh.tuatha.org (root@lugh.tuatha.org [194.125.145.45]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MGbKZ14933 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:37:20 +0100 Received: from lugh (root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10694; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:36:27 +0100 Received: from moe.jinny.ie ([193.120.171.3]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10669 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:36:20 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: lugh.tuatha.org: Host [193.120.171.3] claimed to be moe.jinny.ie Received: from jlooney.jinny.ie (unknown [193.120.171.2]) by moe.jinny.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id C906A7FC48 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:36:19 +0100 (IST) Received: by jlooney.jinny.ie (Postfix, from userid 500) id 09E7E8B1; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:36:42 +0100 (IST) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:36:41 +0100 From: "John P. Looney" To: ILUG Subject: Re: [ILUG] Sun Solaris.. Message-Id: <20020822163641.GN3670@jinny.ie> Reply-To: ilug@linux.ie Mail-Followup-To: ILUG References: <45130FBE2F203649A4BABDB848A9C9D00E9C8A@enterprise.wasptech.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <45130FBE2F203649A4BABDB848A9C9D00E9C8A@enterprise.wasptech.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i X-Os: Red Hat Linux 7.3/Linux 2.4.18-3 X-Url: http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~valen X-Gnupg-Publickey: http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~valen/public.asc Sender: ilug-admin@linux.ie Errors-To: ilug-admin@linux.ie X-Mailman-Version: 1.1 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Irish Linux Users' Group X-Beenthere: ilug@linux.ie On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 05:13:01PM +0100, Fergal Moran mentioned: > In a nutshell - Solaris is Suns own flavour of UNIX. Though I'm sure that this nice person would like a bit more detail. Solaris is quite different to Linux, though these days you can make solaris act a lot like linux with an extra CD of GNU tools Sun ship with solaris. It is based on the SysV unix family, so it's quite similar to other unixen like HPUX and SCO. Sun's hardware in general is more reliable, and a lot more expensive. One of the main bonuses you get by buying Sun is that you are getting your hardware and software from one company, so if you have a support contract, they have to fix it. They can't fob you off with 'that's a software problem, talk to the software vendor.' etc. If you are set on Linux, you most likely can do your own support. There is then a world of different hardware options. You can run Linux on Sparc, though some companies like RedHat don't maintain a sparc port anymore. You can also buy your machine from linux-oriented companies like DNUK, who do machines designed to run linux, and their own version of linux, that has a few extras for their machines. Or, you can get a machine from a cheaper company like Dell, and it'll most likely work, most of the time. John -- Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information. List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0027.11da06d9130a188bf0ffb2060881dbe9.eml000066400000000000000000000072361444326627400311650ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie Thu Aug 22 17:45:54 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8B1343F9B for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:45:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:45:53 +0100 (IST) Received: from lugh.tuatha.org (root@lugh.tuatha.org [194.125.145.45]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MGjVZ15193 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:45:31 +0100 Received: from lugh (root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11100; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:42:54 +0100 Received: from corvil.com. (k100-159.bas1.dbn.dublin.eircom.net [159.134.100.159]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11076 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:42:46 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: lugh.tuatha.org: Host k100-159.bas1.dbn.dublin.eircom.net [159.134.100.159] claimed to be corvil.com. Received: from corvil.com (pixelbeat.local.corvil.com [172.18.1.170]) by corvil.com. (8.12.5/8.12.5) with ESMTP id g7MGgjn4090705 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:42:46 +0100 (IST) (envelope-from padraig.brady@corvil.com) Message-Id: <3D651472.7080101@corvil.com> Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:42:26 +0100 From: Padraig Brady Organization: Corvil Networks User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.9) Gecko/20020408 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ilug@linux.ie Subject: Re: [ILUG] Sun Solaris.. References: <45130FBE2F203649A4BABDB848A9C9D00E9C8A@enterprise.wasptech.com> <20020822163641.GN3670@jinny.ie> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: ilug-admin@linux.ie Errors-To: ilug-admin@linux.ie X-Mailman-Version: 1.1 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Irish Linux Users' Group X-Beenthere: ilug@linux.ie John P. Looney wrote: > On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 05:13:01PM +0100, Fergal Moran mentioned: > >>In a nutshell - Solaris is Suns own flavour of UNIX. > > > Though I'm sure that this nice person would like a bit more detail. > > Solaris is quite different to Linux, though these days you can make > solaris act a lot like linux with an extra CD of GNU tools Sun ship with > solaris. It is based on the SysV unix family, so it's quite similar to > other unixen like HPUX and SCO. > > Sun's hardware in general is more reliable, and a lot more expensive. One > of the main bonuses you get by buying Sun is that you are getting your > hardware and software from one company, so if you have a support contract, > they have to fix it. They can't fob you off with 'that's a software > problem, talk to the software vendor.' etc. > > If you are set on Linux, you most likely can do your own support. There > is then a world of different hardware options. You can run Linux on Sparc, > though some companies like RedHat don't maintain a sparc port anymore. > > You can also buy your machine from linux-oriented companies like DNUK, > who do machines designed to run linux, and their own version of linux, > that has a few extras for their machines. Or, you can get a machine from a > cheaper company like Dell, and it'll most likely work, most of the time. Why do you say Dell is cheaper than DNUK? It gets a bit complicated though! http://www.levenez.com/unix/history.html P�draig. -- Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information. List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0028.54cf7aa229456fb33194b3a12a713e3e.eml000066400000000000000000000152151444326627400311040ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-workers-admin@redhat.com Thu Aug 22 18:17:16 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3936F43F9B for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:17:16 +0100 (IST) Received: from listman.example.com (listman.example.com [66.187.233.211]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MHCFZ16258 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:12:15 +0100 Received: from listman.example.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by listman.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98CA240F20; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:08:54 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: exmh-workers@listman.example.com Received: from int-mx1.corp.example.com (int-mx1.corp.example.com [172.16.52.254]) by listman.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 163BD3F5C4 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:55:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by int-mx1.corp.example.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g7MGtHh14426 for exmh-workers@listman.redhat.com; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:55:17 -0400 Received: from mx1.example.com (mx1.example.com [172.16.48.31]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MGtGY14422 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:55:16 -0400 Received: from milou.dyndns.org (h189n1fls22o974.telia.com [213.64.79.189]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MGekl27238 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:40:46 -0400 Received: by milou.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 500) id 1F95B3F24; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:55:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from tippex.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by milou.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3AA03F23; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:55:08 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5_20020822 01/15/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Chris Garrigues Cc: exmh-workers@example.com Subject: Re: CVS report In-Reply-To: Message from Chris Garrigues of "Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:59:35 CDT." <1030028377.4901.TMDA@deepeddy.vircio.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Anders Eriksson Message-Id: <20020822165508.1F95B3F24@milou.dyndns.org> X-Loop: exmh-workers@example.com Sender: exmh-workers-admin@example.com Errors-To: exmh-workers-admin@example.com X-Beenthere: exmh-workers@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EXMH developers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:55:03 +0200 > > > > Just cvs up'ed and nowadays Catch-up Unseen is __extremely__ slow on > > > > large (>100 msgs) unseen sequences. Anybody else having this problem? > > > > > > I'll take the blame. > > > > > > The reason, I suspect, is that we're needlessly reading the .sequences file > > > multiple times because of other sequences. I need to make the code much > > > smarter about handling that file, but first I have a few other fish to fry in > > > my rather large patch that's on it's way. > > > > > > > No panic, > > > > I'm all for cleaning things up before getting it optimized. > > Okay, this fix is now checked in. > I'm afraid it didn't help. It still seems to be slower than ~1 month ago. Maybe slightly faster than yeasterday. I'm (still) seeing an "unseen countdown" in the log. 18:51:25 Writing /home/ander/Mail/lists/l-k/.mh_sequences 18:51:25 lists/l-k has 57 msgs in unseen 18:51:25 lists/l-k has 56 msgs in unseen 18:51:25 lists/l-k has 55 msgs in unseen 18:51:26 lists/l-k has 54 msgs in unseen 18:51:26 lists/l-k has 53 msgs in unseen 18:51:26 lists/l-k has 52 msgs in unseen 18:51:26 lists/l-k has 51 msgs in unseen 18:51:26 lists/l-k has 50 msgs in unseen 18:51:26 lists/l-k has 49 msgs in unseen 18:51:26 lists/l-k has 48 msgs in unseen 18:51:26 lists/l-k has 47 msgs in unseen 18:51:26 lists/l-k has 46 msgs in unseen 18:51:26 lists/l-k has 45 msgs in unseen 18:51:27 lists/l-k has 44 msgs in unseen 18:51:27 lists/l-k has 43 msgs in unseen 18:51:27 lists/l-k has 42 msgs in unseen 18:51:27 lists/l-k has 41 msgs in unseen 18:51:27 lists/l-k has 40 msgs in unseen 18:51:27 lists/l-k has 39 msgs in unseen 18:51:27 lists/l-k has 38 msgs in unseen 18:51:27 lists/l-k has 37 msgs in unseen 18:51:27 lists/l-k has 36 msgs in unseen 18:51:28 lists/l-k has 35 msgs in unseen 18:51:28 lists/l-k has 34 msgs in unseen 18:51:28 lists/l-k has 33 msgs in unseen 18:51:28 lists/l-k has 32 msgs in unseen 18:51:28 lists/l-k has 31 msgs in unseen 18:51:28 lists/l-k has 30 msgs in unseen 18:51:28 lists/l-k has 29 msgs in unseen 18:51:28 lists/l-k has 28 msgs in unseen 18:51:28 lists/l-k has 27 msgs in unseen 18:51:28 lists/l-k has 26 msgs in unseen 18:51:29 lists/l-k has 25 msgs in unseen 18:51:29 lists/l-k has 24 msgs in unseen 18:51:29 lists/l-k has 23 msgs in unseen 18:51:29 lists/l-k has 22 msgs in unseen 18:51:29 lists/l-k has 21 msgs in unseen 18:51:29 lists/l-k has 20 msgs in unseen 18:51:29 lists/l-k has 19 msgs in unseen 18:51:29 lists/l-k has 18 msgs in unseen 18:51:29 lists/l-k has 17 msgs in unseen 18:51:29 lists/l-k has 16 msgs in unseen 18:51:30 lists/l-k has 15 msgs in unseen 18:51:30 lists/l-k has 14 msgs in unseen 18:51:30 lists/l-k has 13 msgs in unseen 18:51:30 lists/l-k has 12 msgs in unseen 18:51:30 lists/l-k has 11 msgs in unseen 18:51:30 lists/l-k has 10 msgs in unseen 18:51:30 lists/l-k has 9 msgs in unseen 18:51:30 digits changed 18:51:30 lists/l-k has 8 msgs in unseen 18:51:30 lists/l-k has 7 msgs in unseen 18:51:31 lists/l-k has 6 msgs in unseen 18:51:31 lists/l-k has 5 msgs in unseen 18:51:31 lists/l-k has 4 msgs in unseen 18:51:31 lists/l-k has 3 msgs in unseen 18:51:31 lists/l-k has 2 msgs in unseen 18:51:31 lists/l-k has 1 msgs in unseen 18:51:31 lists/l-k has 0 msgs in unseen 18:51:31 FlistUnseenFolder lists/l-k 18:51:31 ok 18:51:47 Folder_Change lists/exmh {Msg_Show cur} _______________________________________________ Exmh-workers mailing list Exmh-workers@redhat.com https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/exmh-workers golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0029.7119e865bff73aca46681d96a451cb60.eml000066400000000000000000000071401444326627400311270ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: lejones@ucla.edu Thu Aug 22 18:29:58 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89B2943F99 for ; 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Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:20:00 -0700 Received: from leslie (ca-stmnca-cuda1-blade1a-115.stmnca.adelphia.net [68.65.192.115]) (authenticated bits=0) by tigerlily.noc.ucla.edu (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id g7MHJxJA019627 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:19:59 -0700 Message-Id: <005801c24a00$1e226060$73c04144@leslie> To: References: <000001c249ff$50bc96e0$da514ed5@roswell> X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 From: "leslie ellen jones" X-Yahoo-Profile: luned23 MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com; contact forteana-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:19:48 -0700 Subject: Re: [zzzzteana] Which Muppet Are You? Reply-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, it's not easy being green. leslie Leslie Ellen Jones, Ph.D. Jack of All Trades and Doctor of Folklore lejones@ucla.edu "Truth is an odd number" -- Flann O'Brien ----- Original Message ----- From: Dino To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 10:13 AM Subject: RE: [zzzzteana] Which Muppet Are You? Damn kermit...boring... Wanna be rizzo he's the coolest Dino Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: forteana-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! 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Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0030.77828e31de08ebb58b583688b87524cc.eml000066400000000000000000000134601444326627400310620ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-workers-admin@redhat.com Thu Aug 22 18:29:40 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8298743F99 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:29:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:29:37 +0100 (IST) Received: from listman.example.com (listman.example.com [66.187.233.211]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MHUEZ17557 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:30:15 +0100 Received: from listman.example.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by listman.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFD5D410A6; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:26:17 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: exmh-workers@listman.example.com Received: from int-mx1.corp.example.com (int-mx1.corp.example.com [172.16.52.254]) by listman.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4169841049 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:23:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by int-mx1.corp.example.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g7MHNi820140 for exmh-workers@listman.redhat.com; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:23:44 -0400 Received: from mx1.example.com (mx1.example.com [172.16.48.31]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MHNiY20136 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:23:44 -0400 Received: from austin-jump.vircio.com (IDENT:ej9JWTtTU9YAy/XEt1t3VaLooI8VpxCp@jump-austin.vircio.com [192.12.3.99]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MH9El32554 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:09:14 -0400 Received: (qmail 11353 invoked by uid 104); 22 Aug 2002 17:23:43 -0000 Received: from cwg-exmh@DeepEddy.Com by localhost.localdomain with qmail-scanner-0.90 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4218. . Clean. Processed in 0.329069 secs); 22/08/2002 12:23:43 Received: from deepeddy.vircio.com (@[10.1.2.1]) (envelope-sender ) by austin-jump.vircio.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 22 Aug 2002 17:23:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 7953 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2002 17:23:40 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO deepeddy.vircio.com) (?OWIvth7P1uuNLmEWhfKb2tBl1I4NTfB9?@[127.0.0.1]) (envelope-sender ) by localhost (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 22 Aug 2002 17:23:40 -0000 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Anders Eriksson Cc: exmh-workers@example.com Subject: Re: CVS report In-Reply-To: <20020822165508.1F95B3F24@milou.dyndns.org> References: <20020822165508.1F95B3F24@milou.dyndns.org> X-Url: http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg X-Image-Url: http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/chris.gif MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_-518574644P"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <1030037019.7938.TMDA@deepeddy.vircio.com> From: Chris Garrigues X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.57 Reply-To: Chris Garrigues X-Loop: exmh-workers@example.com Sender: exmh-workers-admin@example.com Errors-To: exmh-workers-admin@example.com X-Beenthere: exmh-workers@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EXMH developers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:23:38 -0500 --==_Exmh_-518574644P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > From: Anders Eriksson > Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:55:03 +0200 > > > > > > > > > Just cvs up'ed and nowadays Catch-up Unseen is __extremely__ slow o > n > > > > > large (>100 msgs) unseen sequences. Anybody else having this proble > m? > > > > > > > > I'll take the blame. > > > > > > > > The reason, I suspect, is that we're needlessly reading the .sequence > s file > > > > multiple times because of other sequences. I need to make the code m > uch > > > > smarter about handling that file, but first I have a few other fish t > o fry in > > > > my rather large patch that's on it's way. > > > > > > > > > > No panic, > > > > > > I'm all for cleaning things up before getting it optimized. > > > > Okay, this fix is now checked in. > > > I'm afraid it didn't help. It still seems to be slower than ~1 month > ago. Maybe slightly faster than yeasterday. I'm (still) seeing an > "unseen countdown" in the log. Okay....Catchup unseen is something that I don't use often, but i can certainly reproduce this. I'll dig into it. It's probably simple. Chris -- Chris Garrigues http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/ virCIO http://www.virCIO.Com 716 Congress, Suite 200 Austin, TX 78701 +1 512 374 0500 World War III: The Wrong-Doers Vs. the Evil-Doers. --==_Exmh_-518574644P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Exmh version 2.2_20000822 06/23/2000 iD8DBQE9ZR4aK9b4h5R0IUIRAub4AKCE9sxZQfiRl18xhrtT2WLrEqEucACeJGm0 YdhaA8YocKvlkyW4sTIZ3lU= =XhOQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==_Exmh_-518574644P-- _______________________________________________ Exmh-workers mailing list Exmh-workers@redhat.com https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/exmh-workers golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0031.af5b387661e1f58d3787ac41139106e5.eml000066400000000000000000000062341444326627400307640ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie Fri Aug 23 11:07:47 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F82C4416B for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:31 +0100 (IST) Received: from lugh.tuatha.org (root@lugh.tuatha.org [194.125.145.45]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MIE5Z19072 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 19:14:05 +0100 Received: from lugh (root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15460; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 19:12:03 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: lugh.tuatha.org: Host root@localhost [127.0.0.1] claimed to be lugh Received: from nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (nwkea-mail-1.sun.com [192.18.42.13]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15419 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 19:11:56 +0100 Received: from sunire.Ireland.Sun.COM ([129.156.220.30]) by nwkea-mail-1.sun.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04778 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:11:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sionnach.ireland.sun.com (sionnach [129.156.220.28]) by sunire.Ireland.Sun.COM (8.11.6+Sun/8.11.6/ENSMAIL,v2.2) with ESMTP id g7MIBJd19492 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 19:11:19 +0100 (BST) Received: from sionnach (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sionnach.ireland.sun.com (8.12.2+Sun/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g7MIBJdr004189 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 19:11:19 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <200208221811.g7MIBJdr004189@sionnach.ireland.sun.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: ilug@linux.ie From: Albert White - SUN Ireland Subject: Re: [ILUG] Sun Solaris.. In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:42:33 BST." Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 19:11:19 +0100 Sender: ilug-admin@linux.ie Errors-To: ilug-admin@linux.ie X-Mailman-Version: 1.1 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Irish Linux Users' Group X-Beenthere: ilug@linux.ie > On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, John P. Looney wrote: > > Sun's hardware in general is more reliable, > ROFL. not in our experience. Well at least our Caps-Lock keys work: peter@staunton.ie said: > Another problem. I have a Dell branded keyboard and if I hit Caps-Lock > twice, the whole machine crashes (in Linux, not Windows) - even the on/ > off switch is inactive, leaving me to reach for the power cable > instead. :-P bauwolf@indigo.ie said: > as if he wanted Solaris 9 for x86, he'd be waiting a bit erm... it runs Solaris x86 as standard... Cheers, ~Al -- Expressed in this posting are my opinions. They are in no way related to opinions held by my employer, Sun Microsystems. Statements on Sun products included here are not gospel and may be fiction rather than truth. -- Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information. List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0032.f07a3f2152f2bedfc9492459c171012c.eml000066400000000000000000000104751444326627400311060ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com Fri Aug 23 11:08:20 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93D8944160 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:44 +0100 (IST) Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MIPTZ19588 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 19:25:29 +0100 Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94BC22940D4; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:23:08 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: fork@example.com Received: from localhost.localdomain (pm7-32.sba1.netlojix.net [207.71.222.128]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C7AD294099 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:22:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dave@localhost) by maltesecat (8.8.7/8.8.7a) id LAA21283; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:11:58 -0700 Message-Id: <200208221811.LAA21283@maltesecat> To: fork@example.com Subject: RE: The Curse of India's Socialism In-Reply-To: Message from fork-request@xent.com of "Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:30:03 PDT." <20020821183003.25673.41476.Mailman@lair.xent.com> From: Dave Long Sender: fork-admin@xent.com Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com X-Beenthere: fork@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:11:57 -0700 > You have multiple generations of > peasants/squatters that cultivate and live on the lands almost as a > human parts of the property package. When I'd read that "getting legal title can take 20 years", when I believe that 1 year ought to be more than sufficient, (and helped by the Cairo reference) I'd assumed that we were talking about the urban poor. If I see people living in mansions, or even in suburban subdivisions, I assume they didn't have too much trouble with their titles. If I see people living in shanties and haphazard alleyways, I tend to assume their parcels weren't exactly recorded on the government maps, or paid for with a bank loan, especially when nearby vacant lots have shotgun wielding men presumably intent on keeping them "development" free. Now, it may be that "Manhattanites' view of America" to say that outside of Metro Manila, Davao, and maybe another city or two (Cebu?), everything else (literally) is the boondocks. But going on that very broad assumption, I guess I'm describing the flip side of Mr. Roger's experience: the paisanos (who leave behind those who remain on a patron's rural land) move to Manila, and (the second assumption) squat in shantytowns there, at least until they can line up a middle-class job. So, going on two large assumptions, I can come up with a scenario under which title would take 20 years: a shantytown arises somewhere in the midst of a section (or whatever the Spanish used to divvy up the land) and it takes decades of arguing to put together a package which somehow can both compensate the owner and record lots for the inhabitants. Just transferring title to an existing lot, between parties who have money, ought not to be a problem. The obvious solution, at least to us barking farting chihuahuas on FoRK, is to "introduce market mechanisms". It is left as an exercise to come up with one which works when many of the agents (are perceived to) have negligible NPV. -Dave > [land reform] meant that all the agricultural producers had > to plant crops all the time (profitable or not) ... What happened to more highly-capitalized land? Putting in trees instead of crops sounds like it might sidestep that. > Mr. Long, I think you'd particularly enjoy the De Soto work. On the "to find" list. Any chance of an explanation of that "Bell Jar" in the meantime? http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0033.e3fd617544226dc06abf36c95a9a2d11.eml000066400000000000000000000111031444326627400311550ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: neugens@libero.it Fri Aug 23 11:04:42 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BED4A44164 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:03:50 +0100 (IST) Received: from webnote.net (mail.webnote.net [193.120.211.219]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MJiiZ22036 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:44:44 +0100 Received: from outgoing.securityfocus.com (outgoing2.securityfocus.com [66.38.151.26]) by webnote.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06503 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:44:51 +0100 Received: from lists.securityfocus.com (lists.securityfocus.com [66.38.151.19]) by outgoing.securityfocus.com (Postfix) with QMQP id 3B4388F353; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:41:59 -0600 (MDT) Mailing-List: contact secprog-help@securityfocus.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Delivered-To: mailing list secprog@securityfocus.com Delivered-To: moderator for secprog@securityfocus.com Received: (qmail 10062 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2002 17:41:11 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: Mario Torre To: secprog@securityfocus.com Subject: Encryption approach to secure web applications Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:15:15 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200208222015.15926.neugens@libero.it> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by dogma.slashnull.org id g7MJiiZ22036 Hi everybody! I'm writing a web application in java (tomcat + jsp/servlets + database access with postgreSQL). This will be released under the GPL and will eventually be useful as a framework for other web applications. The application main focus is e-commerce, but not limited to that. I would like to use some form of cryptography to protect data on the database, but I have some problem figuring out the right approach. Above all, how to store passwords and keys in a shared web server. A problem that I was unable to solve is how to store keys for encryption/decryption. The api that I'm using is the jca (jdk1.4.x), and the methods of saving generated keys in keystores fails always. I can serialize the object, and store in the database, but this is not the most secure approach: this key is needed to decrypt data in the database, but the database is accessible from the web application. Assuming that I can find a good and secure place where to store the database password, I can use a different database with different user... Argh... to complex and doesn't really solve the problem. Where I can found good documentation about this topic? There is another approach that I would share with the list, something I thought that can be of bit interest, but probabily wrong and insecure. After all, I'm a real beginner in secure programming, and I'm here to learn methods and technics. First of all, I need a secure way to keep database passwords secure, so I have to keep them separate from the main server. The right approach could be using a small java bean application that run as normal user (not tomcat, so it is not shared with other web services or, worst, the nobody user), that has no shell login, but has a default home directory or a place where it can hold passwords and keys. The web application could then open an ssl connection (could be done in the init method at server startup) to get database passwords. The small bean could check via code signature/rmi/whatever else that the source is the right one, and handle all the database connections, or give the db connection/password to the main web application. In this way, we solve the problem of keeping the keys and passwords in shared directories, and also, an attacker should get root/bean user account to read data. This is not perfect, and works only if your provider gives the opportunity to configure a separated java application (that means, really, another server running in the background). Any suggestions? Thank you, Mario Torre -- Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0034.4be53f8dac3bd651ace83a38b6313c45.eml000066400000000000000000000106751444326627400313320ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-workers-admin@redhat.com Fri Aug 23 11:04:05 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F45444159 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:03:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:03:34 +0100 (IST) Received: from listman.example.com (listman.example.com [66.187.233.211]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MIZPZ19882 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 19:35:25 +0100 Received: from listman.example.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by listman.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 571363F43A; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: exmh-workers@listman.example.com Received: from int-mx1.corp.example.com (int-mx1.corp.example.com [172.16.52.254]) by listman.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6F683FD36 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:23:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by int-mx1.corp.example.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g7MINTq05527 for exmh-workers@listman.redhat.com; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:23:29 -0400 Received: from mx1.example.com (mx1.example.com [172.16.48.31]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MINTY05519 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:23:29 -0400 Received: from milou.dyndns.org (h189n1fls22o974.telia.com [213.64.79.189]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MI8xl17687 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:08:59 -0400 Received: by milou.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 500) id 64D053F25; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:23:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from tippex.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by milou.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 634573F23; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:23:22 +0200 (CEST) To: Chris Garrigues , exmh-workers@redhat.com Subject: Re: CVS report From: Anders Eriksson In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:49:41 CDT." <1030038582.14329.TMDA@deepeddy.vircio.com> Message-Id: <20020822182322.64D053F25@milou.dyndns.org> X-Loop: exmh-workers@example.com Sender: exmh-workers-admin@example.com Errors-To: exmh-workers-admin@example.com X-Beenthere: exmh-workers@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EXMH developers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:23:17 +0200 Oooops! Doesn't work at all. Got this on startup and on any attempt to change folder (which fail) /Anders can't read "flist(seqcount,lists/exmh,unseen)": no such element in array (reading value of variable to increment) invoked from within "incr flist(seqcount,$folder,$seq) $delta" (procedure "Seq_Del" line 16) invoked from within "Seq_Del $exmh(folder) $mhProfile(unseen-sequence) $msgid" (procedure "MsgSeen" line 7) invoked from within "MsgSeen $msgid" (procedure "MsgShow" line 12) invoked from within "MsgShow $msgid" (procedure "MsgChange" line 17) invoked from within "MsgChange 73 show" invoked from within "time [list MsgChange $msgid $show" (procedure "Msg_Change" line 3) invoked from within "Msg_Change $msg(id) $show" (procedure "Msg_Show" line 7) invoked from within "Msg_Show cur" ("eval" body line 1) invoked from within "eval $msgShowProc" (procedure "FolderChange" line 55) invoked from within "FolderChange lists/exmh {Msg_Show cur}" invoked from within "time [list FolderChange $folder $msgShowProc" (procedure "Folder_Change" line 3) invoked from within "Folder_Change $exmh(folder)" (procedure "Exmh" line 101) invoked from within "Exmh" ("after" script) _______________________________________________ Exmh-workers mailing list Exmh-workers@redhat.com https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/exmh-workers golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0035.50b257408356cfcfce8cf2afe9fd7959.eml000066400000000000000000000055161444326627400313710ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: craig@deersoft.com Fri Aug 23 11:03:54 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5BBB44156 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:03:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:03:29 +0100 (IST) Received: from hall.mail.mindspring.net (hall.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.60]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MISAZ19627 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 19:28:10 +0100 Received: from user-105nd99.dialup.mindspring.com ([64.91.181.41] helo=belphegore.hughes-family.org) by hall.mail.mindspring.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17hwgo-00049c-00; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:28:14 -0400 Received: from balam.hughes-family.org (adsl-67-118-234-50.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net [67.118.234.50]) by belphegore.hughes-family.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05665A3FD9; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:28:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:28:13 -0700 Subject: Re: [SAdev] 2.40 RELEASE PROCESS: mass-check status, folks? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482) Cc: "Malte S. Stretz" , SpamAssassin-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, SpamAssassin-talk@lists.sourceforge.net To: zzzz@example.com (Justin Mason) From: "Craig R.Hughes" In-Reply-To: <20020822172428.4FCCD43F99@phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.482) On Thursday, August 22, 2002, at 10:24 AM, Justin Mason wrote: > I plan to > > 1. figure out the freqs tonight, suggest what tests to drop > 2. wait for comments > 3. drop tests that nobody cares about tomorrow > 4. sed out the dropped tests from the mass-check logs This step is unneccesary -- unless you've changed the scripts much, any test in the logs which aren't in the rules files will just be ignored I think. You do seem to have changed the logs-to-c script and removed the bit where you could specify immutable tests at the top -- I took a brief glance through the code and couldn't fully make out how it had changed. I think we want to be able to specify immutable test scores though in there somewhere -- or is that now handled by the tflags stuff? For the last couple releases, any test which occurred infrequently (by thumb-in-the-wind subjective criteria) I set to have immutable scores, as well as a handful of other rules. > 5. kick off the GA > > BTW I'll be away this weekend at Linuxbierwanderung, so Craig, > you might > have to run the GA. ;) Shouldn't be a problem. Assuming I can get the darned thing to compile :) C golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0036.7ca216a105267375948e13b460d1fb8f.eml000066400000000000000000000111171444326627400307510ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com Fri Aug 23 11:04:05 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 284A84415A for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:03:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:03:36 +0100 (IST) Received: from listman.example.com (listman.example.com [66.187.233.211]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MIpgZ20384 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 19:51:46 +0100 Received: from listman.example.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by listman.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1515D3ED34; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:51:45 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: exmh-users@listman.example.com Received: from int-mx1.corp.example.com (int-mx1.corp.example.com [172.16.52.254]) by listman.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE5573FA56 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:43:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by int-mx1.corp.example.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g7MIh9W11686 for exmh-users@listman.redhat.com; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:43:09 -0400 Received: from mx1.example.com (mx1.example.com [172.16.48.31]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MIh8Y11682 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:43:08 -0400 Received: from tater ([128.221.30.58]) by mx1.example.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MIScl23509 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:28:39 -0400 Received: from tater.emc.com (tater.lanminds.com [127.0.0.1]) by tater (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E5BCF5B3 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:43:03 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 (debian 2.5-1) with nmh-1.0.4+dev To: exmh-users@example.com Subject: Re: Insert signature In-Reply-To: Message from Ulises Ponce of "Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:03:57 CDT." <200208221803.g7MI3vV17471@mail.banirh.com> References: <200208221803.g7MI3vV17471@mail.banirh.com> From: Paul Lussier Message-Id: <20020822184303.2E5BCF5B3@tater> X-Loop: exmh-users@example.com Sender: exmh-users-admin@example.com Errors-To: exmh-users-admin@example.com X-Beenthere: exmh-users@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: exmh-users@example.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EXMH users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:43:03 -0400 In a message dated: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:03:57 CDT Ulises Ponce said: >Thanks Tony, but I think doing it using component files will get a .signature >by default, but I have many diferent signatures and I want to insert one of >that signatures using a keyboard command. So for a message I will insert a >signature, but for another message I will insert a different signature. > >Is it possible? I am using sedit for my messages. Ahm, if you don't object to using a mouse for such things, exmh has the ability to insert different sigs on demand. Create a bunch of different sig files, all beginning with .signature, and at start up, exmh will load them all. In the Sedit window, you'll see a Sign... menu item which will allow you to select between each of the listed .signature files for *that* e-mail. You can actually use several if you'd like (though I don't remember what Preferences... option allows for this). However, the signature gets added on send, not inserted directly into the existing Sedit window prior to composition. I currently have 6 different sig files I can choose between. Additionally, if a .signature file has the execute bit turned on, exmh will attempt to execute the file and use the stdout of the script as your signature. I hope this helps some. -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! _______________________________________________ Exmh-users mailing list Exmh-users@redhat.com https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/exmh-users golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0037.0c57a93c0241775d406efecf43ba19cf.eml000066400000000000000000000120261444326627400312510ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com Fri Aug 23 11:04:17 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61F8D4415C for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:03:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:03:39 +0100 (IST) Received: from listman.example.com (listman.example.com [66.187.233.211]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MIvjZ20597 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 19:57:45 +0100 Received: from listman.example.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by listman.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6320F3F680; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:57:02 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: exmh-users@listman.example.com Received: from int-mx1.corp.example.com (int-mx1.corp.example.com [172.16.52.254]) by listman.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D0903ECFA for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:54:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by int-mx1.corp.example.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g7MIs9h15215 for exmh-users@listman.redhat.com; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:54:09 -0400 Received: from mx1.example.com (mx1.example.com [172.16.48.31]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MIs6Y15205 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:54:08 -0400 Received: from mail.banirh.com (adsl-javier-quezada-55499267.prodigy.net.mx [200.67.254.229]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MIdZl26775 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:39:36 -0400 Received: from mail.banirh.com (IDENT:ulises@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.banirh.com (8.10.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g7MIrtV21872 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:53:55 -0500 Message-Id: <200208221853.g7MIrtV21872@mail.banirh.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/15/2001 with nmh-1.0.3 To: exmh-users@example.com Subject: Re: Insert signature In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:43:03 EDT." <20020822184303.2E5BCF5B3@tater> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Ulises Ponce X-Loop: exmh-users@example.com Sender: exmh-users-admin@example.com Errors-To: exmh-users-admin@example.com X-Beenthere: exmh-users@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: exmh-users@example.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EXMH users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:53:55 -0500 Thanks Paul, That is the way I am doing right now, but I would like to NOT use the mouse for such things. Any other clue? -- Saludos, Ulises Speaking words of wisdom ... > In a message dated: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:03:57 CDT > Ulises Ponce said: > > >Thanks Tony, but I think doing it using component files will get a .signature > >by default, but I have many diferent signatures and I want to insert one of > >that signatures using a keyboard command. So for a message I will insert a > >signature, but for another message I will insert a different signature. > > > >Is it possible? I am using sedit for my messages. > > Ahm, if you don't object to using a mouse for such things, exmh has > the ability to insert different sigs on demand. Create a bunch of > different sig files, all beginning with .signature, and at start up, > exmh will load them all. In the Sedit window, you'll see a Sign... > menu item which will allow you to select between each of the listed > .signature files for *that* e-mail. You can actually use several if > you'd like (though I don't remember what Preferences... option allows > for this). > > However, the signature gets added on send, not inserted directly into > the existing Sedit window prior to composition. > > I currently have 6 different sig files I can choose between. > > Additionally, if a .signature file has the execute bit turned on, > exmh will attempt to execute the file and use the stdout of the > script as your signature. > > I hope this helps some. > -- > > Seeya, > Paul > -- > It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, > but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. > > If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Exmh-users mailing list > Exmh-users@redhat.com > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/exmh-users _______________________________________________ Exmh-users mailing list Exmh-users@redhat.com https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/exmh-users golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0038.f2ffa1197c969d067be4d01c26fa9b5e.eml000066400000000000000000000061021444326627400313450ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie Fri Aug 23 11:07:42 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 762374415C for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:30 +0100 (IST) Received: from lugh.tuatha.org (root@lugh.tuatha.org [194.125.145.45]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MHxuZ18619 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:59:56 +0100 Received: from lugh (root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14875; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:57:44 +0100 Received: from ni-mail1.dna.utvinternet.net (mail.d-n-a.net [194.46.8.11]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14844 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:57:36 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: lugh.tuatha.org: Host mail.d-n-a.net [194.46.8.11] claimed to be ni-mail1.dna.utvinternet.net Received: from mail.dnet.co.uk (unverified [194.46.8.61]) by ni-mail1.dna.utvinternet.net (Vircom SMTPRS 1.4.232) with SMTP id ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:55:19 +0100 From: "Peter Staunton" Reply-To: peter@staunton.ie To: ilug@linux.ie Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:57:35 GMT X-Mailer: DMailWeb Web to Mail Gateway 1.8s, http://netwinsite.com/top_mail.htm Message-Id: <3d65260f.948.0@mail.dnet.co.uk> X-User-Info: 159.134.226.168 Subject: [ILUG] Newbie seeks advice - Suse 7.2 Sender: ilug-admin@linux.ie Errors-To: ilug-admin@linux.ie X-Mailman-Version: 1.1 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Irish Linux Users' Group X-Beenthere: ilug@linux.ie Folks, my first time posting - have a bit of Unix experience, but am new to Linux. Just got a new PC at home - Dell box with Windows XP. Added a second hard disk for Linux. Partitioned the disk and have installed Suse 7.2 from CD, which went fine except it didn't pick up my monitor. I have a Dell branded E151FPp 15" LCD flat panel monitor and a nVidia GeForce4 Ti4200 video card, both of which are probably too new to feature in Suse's default set. I downloaded a driver from the nVidia website and installed it using RPM. Then I ran Sax2 (as was recommended in some postings I found on the net), but it still doesn't feature my video card in the available list. What next? Another problem. I have a Dell branded keyboard and if I hit Caps-Lock twice, the whole machine crashes (in Linux, not Windows) - even the on/off switch is inactive, leaving me to reach for the power cable instead. If anyone can help me in any way with these probs., I'd be really grateful - I've searched the 'net but have run out of ideas. Or should I be going for a different version of Linux such as RedHat? Opinions welcome. Thanks a lot, Peter -- Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information. List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0040.930593a7e616570a2b63f2d774847316.eml000066400000000000000000000074431444326627400305510ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com Fri Aug 23 11:04:30 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E7C844163 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:03:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:03:46 +0100 (IST) Received: from listman.example.com (listman.example.com [66.187.233.211]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MJN3Z21405 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:23:04 +0100 Received: from listman.example.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by listman.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F8C63FBD0; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:23:03 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: exmh-users@listman.example.com Received: from int-mx1.corp.example.com (int-mx1.corp.example.com [172.16.52.254]) by listman.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ED163FCB3 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by int-mx1.corp.example.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g7MJDGM20736 for exmh-users@listman.redhat.com; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:13:16 -0400 Received: from mx1.example.com (mx1.example.com [172.16.48.31]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MJDGY20732 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:13:16 -0400 Received: from tater ([128.221.30.58]) by mx1.example.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MIwkl31939 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:58:46 -0400 Received: from tater.emc.com (tater.lanminds.com [127.0.0.1]) by tater (Postfix) with ESMTP id 800DFF5B3 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:13:10 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 (debian 2.5-1) with nmh-1.0.4+dev To: exmh-users@example.com Subject: Re: Insert signature In-Reply-To: Message from Ulises Ponce of "Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:53:55 CDT." <200208221853.g7MIrtV21872@mail.banirh.com> References: <200208221853.g7MIrtV21872@mail.banirh.com> From: Paul Lussier Message-Id: <20020822191310.800DFF5B3@tater> X-Loop: exmh-users@example.com Sender: exmh-users-admin@example.com Errors-To: exmh-users-admin@example.com X-Beenthere: exmh-users@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: exmh-users@example.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EXMH users List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:13:10 -0400 In a message dated: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:53:55 CDT Ulises Ponce said: >Thanks Paul, >That is the way I am doing right now, but I would like to NOT use the mouse >for such things. Any other clue? The best I can think of is to figure out what the command being issued by exmh is that selects and inserts the sig and bind that to a key sequence. That shouldn't be *too* difficult, it's just a matter of figuring out the tcl (something my perl-based brain isn't excited about :) -- Seeya, Paul -- It may look like I'm just sitting here doing nothing, but I'm really actively waiting for all my problems to go away. If you're not having fun, you're not doing it right! _______________________________________________ Exmh-users mailing list Exmh-users@redhat.com https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/exmh-users golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0041.af4e0891f17484c10c032f713bce43de.eml000066400000000000000000000047141444326627400311630ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com Fri Aug 23 11:08:25 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA27244171 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:45 +0100 (IST) Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MJHVZ21324 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:17:32 +0100 Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6BE92940DE; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:15:09 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: fork@example.com Received: from barrera.org (unknown [207.5.62.130]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BCBA294099 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:14:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from (127.0.0.1 [127.0.0.1]) by MailEnable Inbound Mail Agent with ESMTP; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 19:16:04 -08:00 Message-Id: <3D653874.8010204@barrera.org> From: "Joseph S. Barrera III" Organization: Wings over the World User-Agent: Mutt 5.00.2919.6900 DM (Nigerian Scammer Special Edition) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en, ja MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Chris Haun Cc: fork@example.com Subject: Re: lifegem References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: fork-admin@xent.com Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com X-Beenthere: fork@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:16:04 -0700 Chris Haun wrote: > A LifeGem is a certified, high quality diamond created from the carbon of > your loved one as a memorial to their unique and wonderful life. Why wait until you're dead? I'm sure there's enough carbon in the fat from your typical liposuction job to make a decent diamond. - Joe http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0042.7ef6c72f88de15d72b1c0d9c164ccb78.eml000066400000000000000000000046671444326627400313620ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com Fri Aug 23 11:08:26 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA70647C68 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:46 +0100 (IST) Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MJOSZ21435 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:24:28 +0100 Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 532572940E5; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:22:08 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: fork@example.com Received: from crank.slack.net (slack.net [166.84.151.181]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19BE0294099 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:21:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by crank.slack.net (Postfix, from userid 596) id D1DEE3EC9E; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:25:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by crank.slack.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D04DE3EC10; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:25:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Tom To: "Joseph S. Barrera III" Cc: Chris Haun , Subject: Re: lifegem In-Reply-To: <3D653874.8010204@barrera.org> Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: fork-admin@xent.com Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com X-Beenthere: fork@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:25:24 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Joseph S. Barrera III wrote: --]Why wait until you're dead? I'm sure there's enough carbon in --]the fat from your typical liposuction job to make a decent diamond. So thats why I keep seeing DeBeers agents hovering around me. -tom(diamonds in the folds of my flesh)wsmf http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0043.2ea45c42b1ea15bc214723e142b81127.eml000066400000000000000000000054241444326627400307770ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com Fri Aug 23 11:08:30 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C348B44163 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:47 +0100 (IST) Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MJSYZ21645 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:28:34 +0100 Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03FCD2940ED; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:26:09 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: fork@example.com Received: from sunserver.permafrost.net (u172n16.hfx.eastlink.ca [24.222.172.16]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B3612940EA for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.123.179] (helo=permafrost.net) by sunserver.permafrost.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17hxYk-00009P-00; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:23:58 -0300 Message-Id: <3D653BBF.3060209@permafrost.net> From: Owen Byrne User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:1.0.0) Gecko/20020530 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Joseph S. Barrera III" Cc: Chris Haun , fork@example.com Subject: Re: lifegem References: <3D653874.8010204@barrera.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: fork-admin@xent.com Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com X-Beenthere: fork@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:30:07 -0300 Joseph S. Barrera III wrote: > Chris Haun wrote: > >> A LifeGem is a certified, high quality diamond created from the >> carbon of your loved one as a memorial to their unique and wonderful >> life. > > > Why wait until you're dead? I'm sure there's enough carbon in > the fat from your typical liposuction job to make a decent diamond. > > - Joe > Oh, hell - what about excrement? I'd love to be able to say - No, the sun doesn't shine out of my ass, but there's the occasional diamond. ;-). Owen http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0044.f1db2c76854ee58bc73d0c85ca6a86d2.eml000066400000000000000000000120361444326627400313440ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie Fri Aug 23 11:07:51 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7419C4416C for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:33 +0100 (IST) Received: from lugh.tuatha.org (root@lugh.tuatha.org [194.125.145.45]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MJtgZ22471 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:55:42 +0100 Received: from lugh (root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19436; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:53:00 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: lugh.tuatha.org: Host root@localhost [127.0.0.1] claimed to be lugh Received: from mail02.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (mail02.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net [159.134.118.18]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA19403 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:52:53 +0100 Received: (qmail 50842 messnum 34651 invoked from network[159.134.205.176/p432.as1.athlone1.eircom.net]); 22 Aug 2002 19:52:16 -0000 Received: from p432.as1.athlone1.eircom.net (HELO darkstar) (159.134.205.176) by mail02.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (qp 50842) with SMTP; 22 Aug 2002 19:52:16 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: Ciaran Johnston Organization: nologic.org To: Subject: Re: [ILUG] Formatting a windows partition from Linux Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:58:07 +0100 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 References: <1029944325.29456.28.camel@dubrhlnx1> <26030.194.237.142.30.1029943301.squirrel@mail.nologic.org> In-Reply-To: <26030.194.237.142.30.1029943301.squirrel@mail.nologic.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200208222058.07760.cj@nologic.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by lugh.tuatha.org id UAA19403 Sender: ilug-admin@linux.ie Errors-To: ilug-admin@linux.ie X-Mailman-Version: 1.1 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Irish Linux Users' Group X-Beenthere: ilug@linux.ie Update on this for anyone that's interested, and because I like closed threads... nothing worse than an infinite while loop, is there? I ended up formatting a floppy on my flatmate's (un-networked) P100 running FAT16 Win95, and mcopied the contents of the bootdisk across. Now I have a FAT16 Win98 install running alongside Slackware, and can play Metal Gear Solid when the mood takes me ;) /Ciaran. On Wednesday 21 August 2002 16:21, Ciaran Johnston wrote: > Dublin said: > > If you copy the files from your disk to the c: partition and mark it as > > active it should work ... > > Yeah, I figured that, but it doesn't seem to ... well, if that's the case > I'll give it another go tonight, maybe come back with some error messages. > > Just to clarify for those who didn't understand me initially - I have a > floppy drive installed, but it doesn't physically work. There's nowhere > handy to pick one up where I am, and I don't fancy waiting a few days for > one to arrive from Peats. > > Thanks for the answers, > Ciaran. > > > You especially need io.sys, command.com and msdos.sys > > > > your cd driver .sys and read the autoexec.bat and config.sys files for > > hints on what you did with your boot floppy > > > > P > > > > On Wed, 2002-08-21 at 14:07, Ciaran Johnston wrote: > >> Hi folks, > >> The situation is this: at home, I have a PC with 2 10Gig HDDs, and no > >> (working) floppy drive. I have been running Linux solely for the last > >> year, but recently got the urge to, among other things, play some of > >> my Windoze games. I normally install the windows partition using a > >> boot floppy which I have conveniently zipped up, but I haven't any way > >> of writing or reading a floppy. > >> So, how do I go about: > >> 1. formatting a C: drive with system files (normally I would use > >> format /s c: from the floppy). > >> 2. Installing the CDROM drivers (my bootdisk (I wrote it many years > >> ago) does this normally). > >> 3. Booting from the partition? > >> > >> I wiped all my linux partitions from the first drive and created > >> partitions for Windows (HDA1) Slackware and RedHat. I used cfdisk for > >> this. I made the first drive (hda) bootable. I then installed the > >> windows partition in LILO and reran lilo (installed in MBR). I copied > >> the contents of boot.zip to my new windows partition and tried to boot > >> it - all I get is a garbled line of squiggles. > >> > >> Anyone any ideas? I can't think of anywhere in Athlone to get a new > >> floppy drive this evening... > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Ciaran. > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie > >> http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription > >> information. List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie -- Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information. List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0045.910fa2e79f96c646f1b6c987c65cbe3f.eml000066400000000000000000000120631444326627400313070ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com Fri Aug 23 11:08:31 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE9C147C69 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:48 +0100 (IST) Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MK4SZ22618 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 21:04:29 +0100 Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6AD62940D8; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: fork@example.com Received: from mail.evergo.net (unknown [206.191.151.2]) by xent.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 790A7294099 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:01:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 21546 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2002 20:02:51 -0000 Received: from dsl.206.191.151.102.evergo.net (HELO JMHALL) (206.191.151.102) by mail.evergo.net with SMTP; 22 Aug 2002 20:02:51 -0000 Reply-To: From: "John Hall" To: Subject: Property rights in the 3rd World (De Soto's Mystery of Capital) Message-Id: <008701c24a16$e3443830$0200a8c0@JMHALL> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <200208221811.LAA21283@maltesecat> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Importance: Normal Sender: fork-admin@xent.com Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com X-Beenthere: fork@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:02:45 -0700 > From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of Dave > Long > Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 11:12 AM > To: fork@example.com > Subject: RE: The Curse of India's Socialism > > > > When I'd read that "getting legal title > can take 20 years", when I believe that > 1 year ought to be more than sufficient, > (and helped by the Cairo reference) I'd > assumed that we were talking about the > urban poor. > > If I see people living in mansions, or > even in suburban subdivisions, I assume > they didn't have too much trouble with > their titles. Pg 177: In another country, a local newspaper, intrigued by our evidence of extralegal real estate holdings, checked to see if the head of state's official residence had a recorded title. It did not. Pg 92: The value of land in the formal sector of Lima averages US$50 per square meter, whereas in the area of Gamarra, where a great deal of Peru's informal manufacturing sector resides, the value per square meter can go as high as US$3,000. ========== I'd have made the same assumption you did. De Soto says that isn't correct. You can find mansions that don't have title. A lot of them, in fact. But they can't be used for collateral for a loan, or otherwise participate as 'capital' because of their extra-legal status. > > Mr. Long, I think you'd particularly enjoy the De Soto work. > > On the "to find" list. Any chance of > an explanation of that "Bell Jar" in > the meantime? French historian Fernand Braudel (so Braudel's Bell Jar, not De Soto's) ==> The key problem is to find out why that sector of society of the past, which I would not hesitate to call capitalist, should have lived as if in a bell jar, cut off from the rest; why was it not able to expand and conquer the whole of society? ... [Why was it that] a significant rate of capital formation was possible only in certain sectors and not in the whole market economy of the time? ... It would perhaps be teasingly paradoxial to say that whatever was in short supply, money certainly was not ... so this was an age where poor land was bought up and magnificent country residents built ... [How do we] resolve the contradiction ... between the depressed economic climate and the splendors of Florence under Lorenzo the Magnificent? -------------- De Soto's theory is that the Bell Jar is formed when you segregate those who have *practical* access to legal property rights and those who do not. The poor[1] have property -- lots and lots of property. What they don't have is access to the systems where we turn property into capital and allow it to start growing. Their property can only be exchanged with a small section of people who know them personally. [1] Actual poor people, not 'poor' Americans with a living standard that is the envy of most of the world. http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0046.05e8a863eaf20f90374d0a15427d9a16.eml000066400000000000000000000045641444326627400310400ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com Fri Aug 23 11:08:35 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE73347C6A for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:49 +0100 (IST) Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MKBTZ22948 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 21:11:29 +0100 Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9D40294183; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:09:08 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: fork@example.com Received: from isolnetsux.techmonkeys.net (isolnetsux.techmonkeys.net [64.243.46.20]) by xent.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 317F2294099 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 2336 invoked by uid 500); 22 Aug 2002 20:09:34 -0000 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 22 Aug 2002 20:09:34 -0000 From: Chris Haun X-X-Sender: chris@isolnetsux.techmonkeys.net To: fork@example.com Subject: public mailing list sign up package Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: fork-admin@xent.com Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com X-Beenthere: fork@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:09:34 -0400 (EDT) Has anyone seen/heard of/used some package that would let a random person go to a webpage, create a mailing list, then administer that list. Also of course let ppl sign up for the lists and manage their subscriptions. Similar to the old listbot.org, but i'd like to have it running on my server not someone elses :) Chris http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0047.5c3e049737a2813d4ac6f13f02362fb1.eml000066400000000000000000000121671444326627400310300ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-workers-admin@redhat.com Fri Aug 23 11:04:57 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E45844162 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:03:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:03:56 +0100 (IST) Received: from listman.example.com (listman.example.com [66.187.233.211]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MKYqZ23456 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 21:34:52 +0100 Received: from listman.example.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by listman.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAAE640F2B; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:31:34 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: exmh-workers@listman.example.com Received: from int-mx1.corp.example.com (int-mx1.corp.example.com [172.16.52.254]) by listman.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB93E40EF8 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:28:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by int-mx1.corp.example.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g7MKSBK05009 for exmh-workers@listman.redhat.com; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:28:11 -0400 Received: from mx1.example.com (mx1.example.com [172.16.48.31]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MKSBY05005 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:28:11 -0400 Received: from austin-jump.vircio.com (IDENT:82tsCXFmK++GyOiDHJbs18xfEBERjSkG@jump-austin.vircio.com [192.12.3.99]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MKDfl14249 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:13:41 -0400 Received: (qmail 24109 invoked by uid 104); 22 Aug 2002 20:28:10 -0000 Received: from cwg-exmh@DeepEddy.Com by localhost.localdomain with qmail-scanner-0.90 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4218. . Clean. Processed in 0.366145 secs); 22/08/2002 15:28:10 Received: from deepeddy.vircio.com (@[10.1.2.1]) (envelope-sender ) by austin-jump.vircio.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 22 Aug 2002 20:28:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 20300 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2002 20:28:07 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO deepeddy.vircio.com) (?KCbAAdDTk0hKfb6XCFGWgd9YDZ2s+oNu?@[127.0.0.1]) (envelope-sender ) by localhost (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 22 Aug 2002 20:28:07 -0000 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Anders Eriksson Cc: exmh-workers@example.com Subject: Re: CVS report In-Reply-To: <20020822182322.64D053F25@milou.dyndns.org> References: <20020822182322.64D053F25@milou.dyndns.org> X-Url: http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg X-Image-Url: http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/chris.gif MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_267413022P"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <1030048087.20291.TMDA@deepeddy.vircio.com> From: Chris Garrigues X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.57 Reply-To: Chris Garrigues X-Loop: exmh-workers@example.com Sender: exmh-workers-admin@example.com Errors-To: exmh-workers-admin@example.com X-Beenthere: exmh-workers@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EXMH developers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:28:05 -0500 --==_Exmh_267413022P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > From: Anders Eriksson > Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:23:17 +0200 > > > Oooops! > > Doesn't work at all. Got this on startup and on any attempt to change folde > r (which fail) ~sigh~ I'd already found that and checked it in....apparently I did so after you checked it out and before you sent this mail...I hoped I was fast enough that you wouldn't see it. Try again! Chris -- Chris Garrigues http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/ virCIO http://www.virCIO.Com 716 Congress, Suite 200 Austin, TX 78701 +1 512 374 0500 World War III: The Wrong-Doers Vs. the Evil-Doers. --==_Exmh_267413022P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Exmh version 2.2_20000822 06/23/2000 iD8DBQE9ZUlVK9b4h5R0IUIRAr4LAJ9Mhzgw03dF2qiyqtMks72364uaqwCeJxp1 23jNAVlrHHIDRMvMPXnfzoE= =HErg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==_Exmh_267413022P-- _______________________________________________ Exmh-workers mailing list Exmh-workers@redhat.com https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/exmh-workers golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0048.6dbad96d78f9dd6100a4ad2a8b8086b6.eml000066400000000000000000000052311444326627400313440ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com Fri Aug 23 11:08:39 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EC734415F for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:50 +0100 (IST) Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7ML7TZ24823 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:07:30 +0100 Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DC062940EE; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: fork@example.com Received: from argote.ch (argote.ch [80.65.224.17]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CC18294099 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:04:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by argote.ch (Postfix, from userid 500) id D7039C44E; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:58:34 +0200 (CEST) To: fork@example.com Subject: Entrepreneurs Message-Id: <20020822205834.D7039C44E@argote.ch> From: harley@argote.ch (Robert Harley) Sender: fork-admin@xent.com Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com X-Beenthere: fork@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:58:34 +0200 (CEST) An apparent quote from Dubya, from the Times (sent to me by my Dad): http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-43-351083,00.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ TONY BLAIR's special relationship with George W. Bush is under considerable strain. Not only do the two disagree on Yassir Arafat's tenure as leader of the Palestinian Authority, but Blair has started telling disparaging anecdotes about the President. Baroness Williams of Crosby recalled a story told to her by 'my good friend Tony Blair' recently in Brighton. Blair, Bush and Jacques Chirac were discussing economics and, in particular, the decline of the French economy. 'The problem with the French,' Bush confided in Blair, 'is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur.' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ R http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0049.bda43370915afa1f557f7edab6913e04.eml000066400000000000000000000031371444326627400312560ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: hauns_froehlingsdorf@infinetivity.com Fri Aug 23 11:05:35 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB68D44158 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:04:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:04:08 +0100 (IST) Received: from mail.infinetivity.com (mail.mninter.net [208.142.244.17]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7ML6xZ24796 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:07:01 +0100 Received: from mail.infinetivity.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.infinetivity.com (8.12.1/8.12.1) with ESMTP id g7ML75fu008107 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:07:05 -0500 Received: (from hfroehli@localhost) by mail.infinetivity.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Submit) id g7ML75ue008106; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:07:05 -0500 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:07:05 -0500 Message-Id: <200208222107.g7ML75ue008106@mail.infinetivity.com> To: "Justin Mason" From: hauns_froehlingsdorf@infinetivity.com Subject: Re: hauns_froehlingsdorf@infinetivity.com This is an automated response to a message you have sent to hauns_froehlingsdorf@infinetivity.com. I will be out of the office until Monday, August 26 2002. I will reply to your email when I return. Hauns ___________________________________ Hauns Froehlingsdorf Network/Systems Manager infinetivity, inc. 952-225.4200 http://www.infinetivity.com golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0050.fd9291b33ecd99af26da03a7d4152dc2.eml000066400000000000000000000103011444326627400313160ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-workers-admin@redhat.com Fri Aug 23 11:06:00 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1E4C4416C for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:04:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:04:17 +0100 (IST) Received: from listman.example.com (listman.example.com [66.187.233.211]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MLYdZ25762 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:34:39 +0100 Received: from listman.example.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by listman.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10427411C1; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:29:31 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: exmh-workers@listman.example.com Received: from int-mx1.corp.example.com (int-mx1.corp.example.com [172.16.52.254]) by listman.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96EAC4119D for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:14:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by int-mx1.corp.example.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g7MLEW815033 for exmh-workers@listman.redhat.com; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:14:32 -0400 Received: from mx1.example.com (mx1.example.com [172.16.48.31]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MLEWY15028 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:14:32 -0400 Received: from milou.dyndns.org (h189n1fls22o974.telia.com [213.64.79.189]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7ML01l23716 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:00:01 -0400 Received: by milou.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 500) id 849EB3F27; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:14:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from tippex.localdomain (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by milou.dyndns.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46B3D3F26; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:14:25 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5_20020822 01/15/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Chris Garrigues Cc: exmh-workers@example.com Subject: Re: CVS report In-Reply-To: Message from Chris Garrigues of "Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:28:05 CDT." <1030048087.20291.TMDA@deepeddy.vircio.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii From: Anders Eriksson Message-Id: <20020822211425.849EB3F27@milou.dyndns.org> X-Loop: exmh-workers@example.com Sender: exmh-workers-admin@example.com Errors-To: exmh-workers-admin@example.com X-Beenthere: exmh-workers@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EXMH developers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:14:20 +0200 >>>>> On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, "Chris" == Chris Garrigues wrote: Chris> --==_Exmh_267413022P Content-Type: text/plain; Chris> charset=us-ascii +> From: Anders Eriksson Date: Thu, 22 Aug +> 2002 20:23:17 +0200 +> Oooops! +> Doesn't work at all. Got this on startup and on any attempt to +> change folde r (which fail) Chris> ~sigh~ I'd already found that and checked it in....apparently Chris> I did so after you checked it out and before you sent this Chris> mail...I hoped I was fast enough that you wouldn't see it. Chris> Try again! Works like a charm. It's like the box was on drugs or something. However, while testing it a selected my favourite folder (l-k) and marked ~400 messages unread. THAT took forever, or about as long as Catch-up Unseen did before. Any suggestions? /A _______________________________________________ Exmh-workers mailing list Exmh-workers@redhat.com https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/exmh-workers golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0051.9281d3f8a3faf47d09a7fafdf2caf26e.eml000066400000000000000000000041421444326627400315620ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie Fri Aug 23 11:07:52 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D6804416D for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:34 +0100 (IST) Received: from lugh.tuatha.org (root@lugh.tuatha.org [194.125.145.45]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MLTQZ25658 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:29:26 +0100 Received: from lugh (root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23320; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:26:40 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: lugh.tuatha.org: Host root@localhost [127.0.0.1] claimed to be lugh Received: from relay06.indigo.ie (relay06.indigo.ie [194.125.133.230]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA23285 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:26:30 +0100 Received: (qmail 8720 messnum 1046742 invoked from network[194.125.156.67/unknown]); 22 Aug 2002 21:26:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO localhost) (194.125.156.67) by relay06.indigo.ie (qp 8720) with SMTP; 22 Aug 2002 21:26:29 -0000 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:25:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed From: Mark Twomey To: ilug@linux.ie Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.482) Subject: [ILUG] Re: Sun Solaris Sender: ilug-admin@linux.ie Errors-To: ilug-admin@linux.ie X-Mailman-Version: 1.1 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Irish Linux Users' Group X-Beenthere: ilug@linux.ie Al white wrote: >erm... it runs Solaris x86 as standard... It runs Solaris 8 x86 as standard. (I was joking Al) M. -- Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information. List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0052.40794e238104d6b01f36b0f4d5145175.eml000066400000000000000000000052361444326627400306050ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: neugens@libero.it Fri Aug 23 11:06:09 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBCE24415B for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:04:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:04:22 +0100 (IST) Received: from outgoing.securityfocus.com (outgoing3.securityfocus.com [66.38.151.27]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MM0XZ26628 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:00:33 +0100 Received: from lists.securityfocus.com (lists.securityfocus.com [66.38.151.19]) by outgoing.securityfocus.com (Postfix) with QMQP id 86064A316F; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:50:00 -0600 (MDT) Mailing-List: contact secprog-help@securityfocus.com; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: Delivered-To: mailing list secprog@securityfocus.com Delivered-To: moderator for secprog@securityfocus.com Received: (qmail 21232 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2002 21:14:49 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Mario Torre To: secprog@securityfocus.com Subject: Re: Encryption approach to secure web applications Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:49:00 +0200 User-Agent: KMail/1.4.1 References: <200208222015.15926.neugens@libero.it> <00da01c24a15$561376c0$0201a8c0@home1> In-Reply-To: <00da01c24a15$561376c0$0201a8c0@home1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <200208222349.00463.neugens@libero.it> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by dogma.slashnull.org id g7MM0XZ26628 Hi, Thank you for the useful replies, I have found some interesting tutorials in the ibm developer connection. https://www6.software.ibm.com/developerworks/education/j-sec1 and https://www6.software.ibm.com/developerworks/education/j-sec2 Registration is needed. I will post the same message on the Web Application Security list, as suggested by someone. For now, I thing I will use md5 for password checking (I will use the approach described in secure programmin fo linux and unix how-to). I will separate the authentication module, so I can change its implementation at anytime. Thank you again! Mario Torre -- Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0053.71bcb179e702d98e88fd0bc081ba0f52.eml000066400000000000000000000134361444326627400312600ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-workers-admin@redhat.com Fri Aug 23 11:06:06 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D496144159 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:04:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:04:19 +0100 (IST) Received: from listman.example.com (listman.example.com [66.187.233.211]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MLxBZ26598 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:59:11 +0100 Received: from listman.example.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by listman.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF8834124B; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:55:27 -0400 (EDT) Delivered-To: exmh-workers@listman.example.com Received: from int-mx1.corp.example.com (int-mx1.corp.example.com [172.16.52.254]) by listman.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B2293FDE8 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:54:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mail@localhost) by int-mx1.corp.example.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g7MLsHq22079 for exmh-workers@listman.redhat.com; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:54:17 -0400 Received: from mx1.example.com (mx1.example.com [172.16.48.31]) by int-mx1.corp.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MLsHY22075 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:54:17 -0400 Received: from austin-jump.vircio.com (IDENT:HxqxW0qPlEYsJtPvTHY/QDVQoen0XAyb@jump-austin.vircio.com [192.12.3.99]) by mx1.redhat.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MLdkl30037 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:39:46 -0400 Received: (qmail 30389 invoked by uid 104); 22 Aug 2002 21:54:16 -0000 Received: from cwg-exmh@DeepEddy.Com by localhost.localdomain with qmail-scanner-0.90 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4218. . Clean. Processed in 0.45655 secs); 22/08/2002 16:54:15 Received: from deepeddy.vircio.com (@[10.1.2.1]) (envelope-sender ) by austin-jump.vircio.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 22 Aug 2002 21:54:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 9069 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2002 21:54:12 -0000 Received: from localhost (HELO deepeddy.vircio.com) (?qa8Nj+W90BKiXmUEK2N6dnYAHT1le0P7?@[127.0.0.1]) (envelope-sender ) by localhost (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 22 Aug 2002 21:54:12 -0000 X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Anders Eriksson Cc: exmh-workers@example.com Subject: Re: CVS report In-Reply-To: <20020822211425.849EB3F27@milou.dyndns.org> References: <20020822211425.849EB3F27@milou.dyndns.org> X-Url: http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg X-Image-Url: http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/chris.gif MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_592622610P"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <1030053252.9051.TMDA@deepeddy.vircio.com> From: Chris Garrigues X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.57 Reply-To: Chris Garrigues X-Loop: exmh-workers@example.com Sender: exmh-workers-admin@example.com Errors-To: exmh-workers-admin@example.com X-Beenthere: exmh-workers@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion list for EXMH developers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:54:11 -0500 --==_Exmh_592622610P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > From: Anders Eriksson > Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:14:20 +0200 > > > >>>>> On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, "Chris" == Chris Garrigues wrote: > > Chris> --==_Exmh_267413022P Content-Type: text/plain; > Chris> charset=us-ascii > > +> From: Anders Eriksson Date: Thu, 22 Aug > +> 2002 20:23:17 +0200 > > +> Oooops! > > +> Doesn't work at all. Got this on startup and on any attempt to > +> change folde r (which fail) > > Chris> ~sigh~ I'd already found that and checked it in....apparently > Chris> I did so after you checked it out and before you sent this > Chris> mail...I hoped I was fast enough that you wouldn't see it. > > Chris> Try again! > > > Works like a charm. It's like the box was on drugs or something. > > However, while testing it a selected my favourite folder (l-k) and > marked ~400 messages unread. THAT took forever, or about as long as > Catch-up Unseen did before. Any suggestions? That's fixed now. I thought I'd caught all the occurrences of that particular coding stupidity. Chris -- Chris Garrigues http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/ virCIO http://www.virCIO.Com 716 Congress, Suite 200 Austin, TX 78701 +1 512 374 0500 World War III: The Wrong-Doers Vs. the Evil-Doers. --==_Exmh_592622610P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Exmh version 2.2_20000822 06/23/2000 iD8DBQE9ZV2CK9b4h5R0IUIRAnWSAJwLZJvK8S4LQRv57W3WIbG9U2P+ywCdExEL kJaVNhuHKW9tp29wID5EjbU= =HDIb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==_Exmh_592622610P-- _______________________________________________ Exmh-workers mailing list Exmh-workers@redhat.com https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/exmh-workers golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0054.a6fa82d1b26c7772829e54ec41a1fbd3.eml000066400000000000000000000055201444326627400312540ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie Fri Aug 23 11:07:57 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ADF744173 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:36 +0100 (IST) Received: from lugh.tuatha.org (root@lugh.tuatha.org [194.125.145.45]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MM4mZ26717 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:04:48 +0100 Received: from lugh (root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25152; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:02:40 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: lugh.tuatha.org: Host root@localhost [127.0.0.1] claimed to be lugh Received: from smtp018.mail.yahoo.com (smtp018.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.174.115]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA25126 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:02:32 +0100 Received: from p977.as2.cra.dublin.eircom.net (HELO mfrenchw2k) (mfrench42@159.134.179.209 with login) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 2002 22:02:25 -0000 Message-Id: <004b01c24a27$149934c0$f264a8c0@sabeo.ie> From: "Matthew French" To: References: Subject: Re: [ILUG] Re: Sun Solaris Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:58:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: ilug-admin@linux.ie Errors-To: ilug-admin@linux.ie X-Mailman-Version: 1.1 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Irish Linux Users' Group X-Beenthere: ilug@linux.ie Mark Twomey joked: > >erm... it runs Solaris x86 as standard... > > It runs Solaris 8 x86 as standard. > (I was joking Al) And will run Solaris 9 when Sun catch up with the x86 drivers and kernel. Although don't hold your breath for the free DVD. It will never come. (Spot the person who applied for the free Solaris 9 DVD, only to be told three months later it is no longer available.) FWIW Solaris and Linux seem to be getting closer all the time. I can no longer see any specific reason why one is better than the other. Expect Red Hat Solaris 11 any time now... - Matthew __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com -- Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information. List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0055.b5509ace7ed62c900779c0c51cca92a3.eml000066400000000000000000000114141444326627400312470ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com Fri Aug 23 11:08:44 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82FE344172 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:52 +0100 (IST) Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MM5UZ26911 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:05:31 +0100 Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 055142940C8; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:03:09 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: fork@example.com Received: from samosa.chappati.org (ar1-nat-sp.collab.net [63.251.56.5]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BED1C294099 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:02:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by samosa.chappati.org (Postfix, from userid 500) id 4F08E126E69; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:04:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Manoj Kasichainula To: fork@example.com Subject: Re: Entrepreneurs Message-Id: <20020822220402.GA504@samosa.chappati.org> Mail-Followup-To: fork@example.com References: <20020822205834.D7039C44E@argote.ch> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020822205834.D7039C44E@argote.ch> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i Sender: fork-admin@xent.com Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com X-Beenthere: fork@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:04:02 -0700 On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 10:58:34PM +0200, Robert Harley wrote: > An apparent quote from Dubya, from the Times (sent to me by my Dad): > > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-43-351083,00.html http://www.snopes.com/quotes/bush.htm Claim: President George W. Bush proclaimed, "The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." Status: False. Origins: Yet another French fried "George W. Bush is dumb" story has been taken up by those who like their caricatures drawn in stark, bold lines. According to scuttlebutt that emerged in the British press in July 2002, President Bush, Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair, and France's President Jacques Chirac were discussing economics and, in particular, the decline of the French economy. "The problem with the French," Bush afterwards confided in Blair, "is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." The source was Shirley Williams, also known as the Baroness Williams of Crosby, who claimed "my good friend Tony Blair" had recently regaled her with this anecdote in Brighton. Lloyd Grove of The Washington Post was unable to reach Baroness Williams to gain her confirmation of the tale, but he did receive a call from Alastair Campbell, Blair's director of communications and strategy. "I can tell you that the prime minister never heard George Bush say that, and he certainly never told Shirley Williams that President Bush did say it," Campbell told The Post. "If she put this in a speech, it must have been a joke." This is far from the first time Bush has been made the butt of a jibe meant to showcase what some perceive as his less than stellar intellectual abilities. Without straining our memories too hard, we can come up with three other instances we've chronicled on this site. In the summer of 2001, the joke of the moment centered upon a supposed study that had resulted in the ranking of Presidential IQs, with George W. Bush being pegged as the Chief Executive who scraped the bottom of the intelligence barrel. In December 2000 it was a fake Nostradamus quatrain which pontificated that the "village idiot" would win the 2000 Presidential election. And in the spring of 2002, it was the story of Bush's waving at Stevie Wonder that set folks to chortling up their sleeves. Stories that illustrate this widely believed intellectual shortcoming will always waft after George W. Bush because they seemingly confirm what many already hold as true about this public figure, that he's not the brightest fellow that's ever been. It is human nature to revel in yarns that the hearer at some level agrees with, thus tales of this sort will always fall upon appreciative ears. Barbara "ears of corn" Mikkelson Last updated: 29 July 2002 http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0056.6ac9eb23e2ef6c7e7eabc3fb0ac3038a.eml000066400000000000000000000075451444326627400316350ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie Fri Aug 23 11:07:57 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36CBB4416E for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:35 +0100 (IST) Received: from lugh.tuatha.org (root@lugh.tuatha.org [194.125.145.45]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MM12Z26648 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:01:02 +0100 Received: from lugh (root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24933; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:59:25 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: lugh.tuatha.org: Host root@localhost [127.0.0.1] claimed to be lugh Received: from redpie.com (redpie.com [216.122.135.208] (may be forged)) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24894 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:59:17 +0100 Received: from justin ([194.46.28.223]) by redpie.com (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA03470 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 14:59:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "Kiall Mac Innes" To: "ILUG" Subject: RE: [ILUG] Newbie seeks advice - Suse 7.2 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:06:27 +0100 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3d65260f.948.0@mail.dnet.co.uk> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: ilug-admin@linux.ie Errors-To: ilug-admin@linux.ie X-Mailman-Version: 1.1 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Irish Linux Users' Group X-Beenthere: ilug@linux.ie hehe sorry but if you hit caps lock twice the computer crashes? theres one ive never heard before... have you tryed Dell support yet? I think dell computers prefer RedHat... (dell provide some computers pre-loaded with red hat) i dont know for sure tho! so get someone elses opnion as well as mine... -----Original Message----- From: ilug-admin@linux.ie [mailto:ilug-admin@linux.ie]On Behalf Of Peter Staunton Sent: 22 August 2002 19:58 To: ilug@linux.ie Subject: [ILUG] Newbie seeks advice - Suse 7.2 Folks, my first time posting - have a bit of Unix experience, but am new to Linux. Just got a new PC at home - Dell box with Windows XP. Added a second hard disk for Linux. Partitioned the disk and have installed Suse 7.2 from CD, which went fine except it didn't pick up my monitor. I have a Dell branded E151FPp 15" LCD flat panel monitor and a nVidia GeForce4 Ti4200 video card, both of which are probably too new to feature in Suse's default set. I downloaded a driver from the nVidia website and installed it using RPM. Then I ran Sax2 (as was recommended in some postings I found on the net), but it still doesn't feature my video card in the available list. What next? Another problem. I have a Dell branded keyboard and if I hit Caps-Lock twice, the whole machine crashes (in Linux, not Windows) - even the on/off switch is inactive, leaving me to reach for the power cable instead. If anyone can help me in any way with these probs., I'd be really grateful - I've searched the 'net but have run out of ideas. Or should I be going for a different version of Linux such as RedHat? Opinions welcome. Thanks a lot, Peter -- Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information. List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie -- Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information. List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0057.be5e34dcebd922928045634015e3ed78.eml000066400000000000000000000073731444326627400311350ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: iiu-admin@taint.org Fri Aug 23 11:06:32 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC1494416F for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:04:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:04:29 +0100 (IST) Received: from dogma.slashnull.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MNM9Z29719; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 00:22:09 +0100 Received: from mail00.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (mail00.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net [159.134.118.16]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7MNJfZ29657 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 00:19:41 +0100 Received: (qmail 44295 messnum 519748 invoked from network[159.134.100.45/k100-45.bas1.dbn.dublin.eircom.net]); 22 Aug 2002 23:19:43 -0000 Received: from k100-45.bas1.dbn.dublin.eircom.net (HELO ted.nua.ie) (159.134.100.45) by mail00.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (qp 44295) with SMTP; 22 Aug 2002 23:19:43 -0000 Message-Id: <5.1.1.6.0.20020823001344.0302c548@dogma.slashnull.org> X-Sender: antoinmail@dogma.slashnull.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1.1 To: iiu@taint.org, iiu@taint.org From: Antoin O Lachtnain Subject: Re: [IIU] Eircom aDSL Nat'ing In-Reply-To: <1030032645.73395.1.camel@flapjack.netability.ie> References: <3D650A2D.1000301@dcu.ie> <3D650A2D.1000301@dcu.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: iiu-admin@taint.org Errors-To: iiu-admin@taint.org X-Beenthere: iiu@iiu.taint.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: iiu@taint.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Irish Internet Users List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 00:17:46 +0100 At 17:10 22/08/2002 +0100, Nick Hilliard wrote: > > apologies for the possible silly question (i don't think it is, but), > > but is Eircom's aDSL service NAT'ed? > >No - you get unfiltered access with a real (but dynamic) IP address. > > > and what implications would that have for VoIP? I know there are > > difficulties with VoIP or connecting to clients connected to a NAT'ed > > network from the internet wild (i.e. machines with static, real IPs) > >You will probably suffer from the high latency of DLS lines. Typically, >you're talking about 50ms RTT to the local bas, which is pretty high. >If your voip application can handle this, then you're ok. > >Nick what's the deal with all this latency? it's not like that in other places where I've used dsl. i read some story about it being done that way to allow greater distances to be covered or something like that. however, my knowledge of physics is really only newtonian, and I don't understand how worsening latency could possibly improve the reliability of a 2000 foot long piece of copper. Perhaps it has something to do with stretching the time-space continuum? can someone explain this in words of five syllables or less? a. >_______________________________________________ >IIU mailing list >IIU@iiu.taint.org >http://iiu.taint.org/mailman/listinfo/iiu -- Antoin O Lachtnain ** antoin@eire.com ** http://www.eire.com ** +353-87-240-6691 _______________________________________________ IIU mailing list IIU@iiu.taint.org http://iiu.taint.org/mailman/listinfo/iiu golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0058.a7c28223050c35c3a22ac4e2b5969111.eml000066400000000000000000000051421444326627400307300ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com Fri Aug 23 11:08:46 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D38B47C6C for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:53 +0100 (IST) Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7MNQTZ29953 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 00:26:29 +0100 Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02B56294186; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:24:09 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: fork@example.com Received: from mail1.panix.com (mail1.panix.com [166.84.1.72]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 403D8294099 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:23:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 159-98.nyc.dsl.access.net (159-98.nyc.dsl.access.net [166.84.159.98]) by mail1.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 414A54877A for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 19:25:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Lucas Gonze X-X-Sender: lgonze@localhost.localdomain Cc: "Fork@Xent.Com" Subject: Re: The case for spam In-Reply-To: <3D6556DC.5070408@permafrost.net> Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: fork-admin@xent.com Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com X-Beenthere: fork@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 19:18:12 -0400 (EDT) Political mail (the snail kind) doesn't bother me. I like it a lot of the time, because as crap as it is at least it's not the kind of info you get on TV. Particularly for small time local politics, it's the best way to get information. but what matters is that mail is speech, and political email has to be as well protected as any other political speech. Spam is *the* tool for dissident news, since the face that it's unsolicited means that recipients can't be blamed for being on a mailing list. http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0059.b3b1b1d95976b70d9bbd6c39c6b8d5d2.eml000066400000000000000000000054751444326627400313620ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com Fri Aug 23 11:08:50 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AE1947C6D for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:54 +0100 (IST) Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7N16TZ03375 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 02:06:30 +0100 Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6F482940E1; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:04:08 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: fork@example.com Received: from argote.ch (argote.ch [80.65.224.17]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE0D3294099 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:03:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by argote.ch (Postfix, from userid 500) id D63AEC44E; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 02:57:05 +0200 (CEST) To: fork@example.com Subject: Re: Entrepreneurs Message-Id: <20020823005705.D63AEC44E@argote.ch> From: harley@argote.ch (Robert Harley) Sender: fork-admin@xent.com Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com X-Beenthere: fork@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 02:57:05 +0200 (CEST) Manoj Kasichainula wrote; >http://www.snopes.com/quotes/bush.htm > >Claim: President George W. Bush proclaimed, "The problem with >the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." > >Status: False. Status: Crap. >Lloyd Grove of The Washington Post was unable to reach Baroness >Williams to gain her confirmation of the tale, but he did >receive a call from Alastair Campbell, Blair's director of >communications and strategy. "I can tell you that the prime >minister never heard George Bush say that, and he certainly >never told Shirley Williams that President Bush did say it," >Campbell told The Post. "If she put this in a speech, it must >have been a joke." So some guy failed to reach the source, but instead got spin doctor to deny it. Wot, is he thick enough to expect official confirmation that, yes, Blair is going around casting aspersions on Bush??? It's an amusing anecdote, I don't know if it's true or not, but certainly nothing here supports the authoritative sounding conclusion "Status: False". R http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0060.877bf70a297621b9dc3bab0095f95027.eml000066400000000000000000000051441444326627400310410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com Fri Aug 23 11:08:50 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FC0647C6E for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:55 +0100 (IST) Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7N1LTZ03723 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 02:21:29 +0100 Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6D262940E7; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:19:08 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: fork@example.com Received: from hotmail.com (f160.law15.hotmail.com [64.4.23.160]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95D1D294099 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:18:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:20:23 -0700 Received: from 216.30.74.2 by lw15fd.law15.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 01:20:23 GMT X-Originating-Ip: [216.30.74.2] From: "Russell Turpin" To: fork@example.com Subject: Re: The case for spam MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-Id: X-Originalarrivaltime: 23 Aug 2002 01:20:23.0609 (UTC) FILETIME=[41265290:01C24A43] Sender: fork-admin@xent.com Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com X-Beenthere: fork@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 01:20:23 +0000 Lucas Gonze: >Spam is *the* tool for dissident news, since the fact that it's unsolicited >means that recipients can't be blamed for being on a mailing list. That depends on how the list is collected, or even on what the senders say about how the list is collected. Better to just put it on a website, and that way it can be surfed anonymously. AND it doesn't clutter my inbox. _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0061.20319a885b8cf6c88c8098eafd731396.eml000066400000000000000000000052251444326627400310660ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com Fri Aug 23 11:08:55 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D741B47C6F for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:55 +0100 (IST) Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7N1jTZ04367 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 02:45:29 +0100 Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A11E2940F5; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:43:08 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: fork@example.com Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net (smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net [207.172.4.62]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D0CE294099 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:42:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Info: This message was accepted for relay by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net as the sender used SMTP authentication X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZFFzJmsb6CFx8j2lnFk529F6pHVq8zxRebZ/rkY9nOITB+/+3fN03H5gv+GHxViF4= Received: from eb-174121.od.nih.gov ([156.40.174.121] helo=TOSHIBA-L8QYR7M) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #6) id 17i3Uv-0007Lj-00 for fork@xent.com; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 21:44:25 -0400 From: "John Evdemon" To: fork@example.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: Entrepreneurs Message-Id: <3D655B37.2901.1DB12A@localhost> Priority: normal In-Reply-To: <20020823005705.D63AEC44E@argote.ch> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v4.01) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Description: Mail message body Sender: fork-admin@xent.com Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com X-Beenthere: fork@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 21:44:23 -0400 On 23 Aug 2002 at 2:57, Robert Harley wrote: > It's an amusing anecdote, I don't know if it's true or not, > but certainly nothing here supports the authoritative > sounding conclusion "Status: False". I actually thought it was pretty funny and quite accurate. Who cares if the spinmeisters are denying it? http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0062.b675bdb7b9e2321dfe97e48037fe7782.eml000066400000000000000000000052361444326627400312270ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com Fri Aug 23 11:08:56 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A091D47C70 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:56 +0100 (IST) Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7N5EVZ11380 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:14:32 +0100 Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B70E2940D7; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:12:10 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: fork@example.com Received: from crank.slack.net (slack.net [166.84.151.181]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A7D2294099 for ; Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:11:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by crank.slack.net (Postfix, from userid 596) id 8F5E23EDE0; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 01:15:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by crank.slack.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DD423ECF3; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 01:15:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Tom To: Robert Harley Cc: fork@example.com Subject: Re: Entrepreneurs In-Reply-To: <20020823005705.D63AEC44E@argote.ch> Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: fork-admin@xent.com Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com X-Beenthere: fork@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 01:15:29 -0400 (EDT) On Fri, 23 Aug 2002, Robert Harley wrote: --]It's an amusing anecdote, I don't know if it's true or not, but certainly --]nothing here supports the authoritative sounding conclusion "Status: False". --] So thats the trick, just let any anecdotal utterances you LIKE be deemed true until proven false, and then hold other data to the opposite standard... Yeah, I see how that could be a handy tool RH. (before teh lablemongers are out and about, I could give a shit what BubbaU utters, its all shite. Kill your idols folks, your slips are showing) -tom http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0064.7160290efcb7320ac8852369a695bcaf.eml000066400000000000000000000104711444326627400311210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie Fri Aug 23 11:08:03 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E461E44174 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:36 +0100 (IST) Received: from lugh.tuatha.org (root@lugh.tuatha.org [194.125.145.45]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7N7RJZ14671 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 08:27:19 +0100 Received: from lugh (root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13280; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 08:23:50 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: lugh.tuatha.org: Host root@localhost [127.0.0.1] claimed to be lugh Received: from mail01.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (mail01.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net [159.134.118.17]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA13247 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 08:23:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 37798 messnum 126638 invoked from network[213.190.156.48/unknown]); 23 Aug 2002 07:23:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO XENON16) (213.190.156.48) by mail01.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (qp 37798) with SMTP; 23 Aug 2002 07:23:11 -0000 Message-Id: <001b01c24a76$315c63d0$e600000a@XENON16> From: "wintermute" To: References: <3d65260f.948.0@mail.dnet.co.uk> Subject: Re: [ILUG] Newbie seeks advice - Suse 7.2 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 08:25:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 Sender: ilug-admin@linux.ie Errors-To: ilug-admin@linux.ie X-Mailman-Version: 1.1 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Irish Linux Users' Group X-Beenthere: ilug@linux.ie < > > I downloaded a driver from the nVidia website and installed it using RPM. > Then I ran Sax2 (as was recommended in some postings I found on the net), but > it still doesn't feature my video card in the available list. What next? hmmm. Peter. Open a terminal and as root type lsmod you want to find a module called NVdriver. If it isn't loaded then load it. #insmod NVdriver.o Oh and ensure you have this module loaded on boot.... else when you reboot you might be in for a nasty surprise. Once the kernel module is loaded #vim /etc/X11/XF86Config in the section marked Driver I have "NeoMagic" you need to have Driver "nvidia" Here is part of my XF86Config Also note that using the card you are using you 'should' be able to safely use the FbBpp 32 option . Section "Module" Load "extmod" Load "xie" Load "pex5" Load "glx" SubSection "dri" #You don't need to load this Peter. Option "Mode" "666" EndSubSection Load "dbe" Load "record" Load "xtrap" Load "speedo" Load "type1" EndSection #Plus the Modelines for your monitor should be singfinicantly different. Section "Monitor" Identifier "Monitor0" VendorName "Monitor Vendor" ModelName "Monitor Model" HorizSync 28.00-35.00 VertRefresh 43.00-72.00 Modeline "800x600" 36 800 824 896 1024 600 601 603 625 Modeline "1024x768" 49 1024 1032 1176 1344 768 771 777 806 EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Card0" Driver "neomagic" #Change this to "nvidia"... making sure the modules are in the correct path VendorName "Neomagic" # "Nvidia" BoardName "NM2160" BusID "PCI:0:18:0" EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen0" Device "Card0" Monitor "Monitor0" DefaultDepth 24 SubSection "Display" Depth 1 EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 4 EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 8 EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 15 EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 16 EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 24 #FbBpp 32 #Ie you should be able lto uncomment this line Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" # And add in higher resulutions as desired. EndSubSection EndSection -- Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information. List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0065.b72ddcc517cc317f3fc1e79c3feeca15.eml000066400000000000000000000065021444326627400315560ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com Fri Aug 23 11:09:00 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C8BB44161 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:57 +0100 (IST) Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7N8CWZ15864 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 09:12:32 +0100 Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DDA329418E; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 01:10:10 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: fork@example.com Received: from hughes-fe01.direcway.com (hughes-fe01.direcway.com [66.82.20.91]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EC36294099 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 01:09:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spinnaker ([64.157.38.84]) by hughes-fe01.direcway.com (InterMail vK.4.04.00.00 201-232-137 license dcc4e84cb8fc01ca8f8654c982ec8526) with ESMTP id <20020823081149.JPJZ17240.hughes-fe01@spinnaker> for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 04:11:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Entrepreneurs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482) From: Chuck Murcko To: fork@example.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <20020822205834.D7039C44E@argote.ch> Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.482) Sender: fork-admin@xent.com Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com X-Beenthere: fork@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 01:11:02 -0700 According to my son, it was actually Homer Simpson, who claimed the French had no word for victory. Chuck On Thursday, August 22, 2002, at 01:58 PM, Robert Harley wrote: > An apparent quote from Dubya, from the Times (sent to me by my Dad): > > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-43-351083,00.html > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > TONY BLAIR's special relationship with George W. Bush is under > considerable strain. Not only do the two disagree on Yassir Arafat's > tenure as leader of the Palestinian Authority, but Blair has started > telling disparaging anecdotes about the President. > > Baroness Williams of Crosby recalled a story told to her by 'my good > friend Tony Blair' recently in Brighton. Blair, Bush and Jacques > Chirac were discussing economics and, in particular, the decline of > the French economy. 'The problem with the French,' Bush confided in > Blair, 'is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur.' > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > R > http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork > http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0066.dcf72ba90be7570f2f7edab45b23ae36.eml000066400000000000000000000051531444326627400314750ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com Fri Aug 23 11:09:00 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CB6743F99 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:58 +0100 (IST) Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7N8rUZ17136 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 09:53:30 +0100 Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7345F294192; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 01:51:08 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: fork@example.com Received: from argote.ch (argote.ch [80.65.224.17]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 308B6294099 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 01:50:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by argote.ch (Postfix, from userid 500) id D5070C44E; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 10:44:35 +0200 (CEST) To: fork@example.com Subject: Re: Entrepreneurs Message-Id: <20020823084435.D5070C44E@argote.ch> From: harley@argote.ch (Robert Harley) Sender: fork-admin@xent.com Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com X-Beenthere: fork@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 10:44:35 +0200 (CEST) Whore eructed: >--]It's an amusing anecdote, I don't know if it's true or not, but >--]certainly nothing here supports the authoritative sounding conclusion >--]"Status: False". > >So thats the trick, just let any anecdotal utterances you LIKE be deemed >true [...] Exsqueeze me, but what part of "I don't know if it's true or not" did you fail to grok? I personally doubt it simply because I never heard of Bush and Chirac going to Brighton. Next time I hear a joke, I promise not to laugh until I have checked out primary sources for confirmation in triplicate, OK? Good thing we have you around to keep us on the straight and narrow, all the while inundating us with such erudite profundities as "Kill your idols folks", "fight the powers that be, from with out and from with in" and innumerable other dippy bromides. R http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0067.d77af11e9b2a74048c073462efecca12.eml000066400000000000000000000037461444326627400312600ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com Fri Aug 23 11:09:07 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D1FA47C71 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:06:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:06:59 +0100 (IST) Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7N9vXZ19107 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 10:57:34 +0100 Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1993F294197; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 02:55:10 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: fork@example.com Received: from argote.ch (argote.ch [80.65.224.17]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D28BB294099 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 02:54:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by argote.ch (Postfix, from userid 500) id ABDF4C44E; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:48:33 +0200 (CEST) To: fork@example.com Subject: Re: Entrepreneurs Message-Id: <20020823094833.ABDF4C44E@argote.ch> From: harley@argote.ch (Robert Harley) Sender: fork-admin@xent.com Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com X-Beenthere: fork@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:48:33 +0200 (CEST) I wrote: >I personally doubt it simply because I never heard of Bush and Chirac >going to Brighton. Actually it doesn't say that they did, just that Blair spoke to Williams there. R http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0068.f1c604a78739e4f966253d762c972dde.eml000066400000000000000000000022411444326627400310700ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: quinlan@pathname.com Fri Aug 23 11:33:57 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1C5643F99 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 06:33:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:33:56 +0100 (IST) Received: from proton.pathname.com (adsl-216-103-211-240.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [216.103.211.240]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7NAVFZ20272 for ; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:31:15 +0100 Received: from quinlan by proton.pathname.com with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17iBiq-0005K9-00; Fri, 23 Aug 2002 03:31:20 -0700 To: zzzz@example.com, craig@deersoft.com Subject: FYI - gone this weekend Cc: quinlan@pathname.com Message-Id: From: Daniel Quinlan Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 03:31:20 -0700 I won't be reading email until Sunday night or so. Good luck with 2.40 and don't do anything I wouldn't do. ;-) - Dan golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0069.7173de1d2da14306c5a20e8abda7a6e2.eml000066400000000000000000000120171444326627400313130ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net Thu Aug 29 16:32:22 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E99643F99 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:32:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:32:22 +0100 (IST) Received: from egwn.net (auth02.nl.egwn.net [193.172.5.4]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7TFWmZ18299 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:32:48 +0100 Received: from auth02.nl.egwn.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by egwn.net (8.11.6/8.11.6/EGWN) with ESMTP id g7TFN2J02111; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:23:02 +0200 Received: from python (gw01.es3.egwn.net [212.9.66.13]) (authenticated) by egwn.net (8.11.6/8.11.6/EGWN) with ESMTP id g7TFM0J01934 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:22:00 +0200 From: Matthias Saou To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net Subject: Re: ALSA (almost) made easy Message-Id: <20020829171121.3b5d0506.matthias@egwn.net> In-Reply-To: <20020829141143.61528.qmail@web20002.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020829133306.21299713.matthias@egwn.net> <20020829141143.61528.qmail@web20002.mail.yahoo.com> Organization: Electronic Group Interactive X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.8.2claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386-redhat-linux) Reply-BY: Tue, 24 Jul 2000 19:02:00 +1000 X-Operating-System: GNU/Linux power! X-Message-Flag: Try using a real operating system : GNU/Linux power! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailscanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: rpm-zzzlist-admin@freshrpms.net Errors-To: rpm-zzzlist-admin@freshrpms.net X-Beenthere: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Freshrpms RPM discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: X-Original-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:11:21 +0200 Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:11:21 +0200 Once upon a time, Joshua wrote : > Just a thought, would it be possible to generalize this ALSA > stuff to make building a kernel with *any* custom/optional/updated > modules an easy thing? I think some scripts or at least step-by-step > instructions would be great. > > For example, to build a kernel RPM with ALSA do: > 1. get the kernel source > 2. get the ALSA source > 3. run the custom-kernel.sh script > ... > > Or a kernel RPM with the lastest wireless LAN drivers: > 1. get the kernel source > 2. get the CVS driver source > 3. run the custom-kernel.sh script > ... > > etc. This wouldn't be worth the effort involved IMHO, and would probably end up in relative breakage of a few systems if not carefully tested. Your first example is a good one, because I really think it's even easier currently : 1. Leave your current kernel as-is 2. Get the "alsa-driver" source rpm 3. Rebuild and install resulting packages Drivers that are written to be easily compiled as modules (like ltmodem, NVidia, ALSA etc.) can easily be repackaged separately as rpms and ported as easily for various kernel rpms from the source rpm. Also, what you describe is sort of the opposite of what rpm packaging is in my mind. I see it more as a "one size fits all" achievement in the general case. And kernel isn't an exception (although there are packages optimized for various processors) since they all come with just about all the modules you'll ever need. Make that "one size fits many" then if you want ;-) Last but not least : The kernel is something I'm trying to keep away from in my packaging since I really don't want to see newbies screwing up their systems because of packages on my website... same goes for GNOME, KDE and other major bits of the distribution since I also want people who happily use my packages to be able to upgrade to the next Red Hat Linux release without having their system turned into another Ximian mess. Matthias PS: Yes Chris, I'm worried about not giving you too much work! Less in fact since you can easily answer "freshrpms.net!" to people asking how to play DVDs, right? ;-)))) -- Matthias Saou World Trade Center ------------- Edificio Norte 4 Planta System and Network Engineer 08039 Barcelona, Spain Electronic Group Interactive Phone : +34 936 00 23 23 _______________________________________________ RPM-List mailing list http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0070.4f269f2d783b479971f31006fe17ce62.eml000066400000000000000000000060611444326627400307760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie Thu Aug 29 16:42:34 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AD0D43F99 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:42:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:42:34 +0100 (IST) Received: from lugh.tuatha.org (root@lugh.tuatha.org [194.125.145.45]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7TFYfZ18351 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:34:42 +0100 Received: from lugh (root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30663; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:32:44 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: lugh.tuatha.org: Host root@localhost [127.0.0.1] claimed to be lugh Received: from mail02.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (mail02.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net [159.134.118.18]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA30628 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:32:37 +0100 Received: (qmail 48111 messnum 226577 invoked from network[213.190.156.48/unknown]); 29 Aug 2002 15:15:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO XENON16) (213.190.156.48) by mail02.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (qp 48111) with SMTP; 29 Aug 2002 15:15:37 -0000 Message-Id: <005401c24f6f$2f797b90$e600000a@XENON16> From: "wintermute" To: References: <3D6E355E.9060008@diva.ie> Subject: Re: [ILUG] eircoms adsl modems Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:17:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 Sender: ilug-admin@linux.ie Errors-To: ilug-admin@linux.ie X-Mailman-Version: 1.1 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Irish Linux Users' Group X-Beenthere: ilug@linux.ie It will function as a router if that is what you wish. It even looks like the modem's embedded OS is some kind of linux, being that it has interesting interfaces like eth0. I don't use it as a router though.... I just have it do the absolute minimum DSL stuff and do all the really fun stuff like pppoe on my linux box........ Also the manual tells you what the default password is. Don't forget to run pppoe over the alcatel speedtouch 350i as in my case you 'HAVE TO' have a bridge configured in the router/modem's software........ This lists your VCI values etc. > Also, does anyone know if the high-end SpeedTouch, with > 4 ethernet ports, can act as a full router or do I still > need to run a pppoe stack on the linux box? > > Regards, > > Vin > > > -- > Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie > http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information. > List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie > -- Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information. List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0071.75403094cab986a246c1e7ce3460e827.eml000066400000000000000000000067351444326627400307710ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com Thu Aug 29 16:52:57 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7996B44155 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:52:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:52:54 +0100 (IST) Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7TFklZ18708 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:46:47 +0100 Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA6122940DA; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:44:09 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: fork@example.com Received: from smtp1.auracom.net (smtp1.auracom.net [165.154.140.23]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D5E12940DA for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from maya.dyndns.org (ts5-038.ptrb.interhop.net [165.154.190.102]) by smtp1.auracom.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g7TFIpD06133; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:18:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by maya.dyndns.org (Postfix, from userid 501) id 72BCA1C38A; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:19:27 -0400 (EDT) To: Eirikur Hallgrimsson Cc: FoRK Subject: Re: Internet saturation (but not in Iceland) References: <200208290358.03815.eh@mad.scientist.com> From: Gary Lawrence Murphy X-Home-Page: http://www.teledyn.com Organization: TCI Business Innovation through Open Source Computing Message-Id: Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy X-Url: http://www.teledyn.com/ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: fork-admin@xent.com Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com X-Beenthere: fork@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: 29 Aug 2002 11:19:27 -0400 >>>>> "E" == Eirikur Hallgrimsson writes: E> Gary's news service at teledyn.com has an article on Internet E> Saturation. Let me ask you....If you were on a rock in the E> middle of the Atlantic, mostly in the dark for half the year, E> wouldn't *you* like a bit of internet distraction? They've E> already done the obvious and fiber-ringed the island. There's lots of similar places. Saskatchewan, for example, once shared with Iceland the distinction of most telephone connections per capita, and for a long time shared the internet penetration lead with Iceland (Sask is a land-locked massive expanse of ultra-flat dust with only two rivers and farm sizes measured in the hundred-thousand-hectares). It's still curious Iceland leads. Maybe there's just a deep cultural curiousity and fascination with watching advertising from the rest of the world. Maybe they're downloading Bjork videos. -- Gary Lawrence Murphy TeleDynamics Communications Inc Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso) golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0072.d1c080832388ae81835ca069e2efffa3.eml000066400000000000000000000051371444326627400312040ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com Thu Aug 29 16:32:25 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C408E43F9B for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:32:25 +0100 (IST) Received: from xent.com ([64.161.22.236]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7TFU0Z18213 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:30:03 +0100 Received: from lair.xent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xent.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDDE12940F6; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:27:09 -0700 (PDT) Delivered-To: fork@example.com Received: from mx.spiritone.com (mx.spiritone.com [216.99.221.5]) by xent.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2E151294099 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 28639 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2002 15:28:11 -0000 Received: (ofmipd 216.99.213.165); 29 Aug 2002 15:27:49 -0000 Message-Id: From: "RossO" To: fork@example.com Subject: Re: Computational Recreations Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.482) Sender: fork-admin@xent.com Errors-To: fork-admin@xent.com X-Beenthere: fork@example.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Friends of Rohit Khare List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: 29 Aug 2002 08:28:13 -0700 On Monday, August 26, 2002, at 09:59 AM, Tom wrote: > Post MG in the 80's there were the colums by A K Dewdney that I dug a > bunch put into a book called Turing Omnibus and then there is , of > course, all the goodens put out by Dougy Hoffstadler. A.K. Dewdney was the name I was looking for and the column was "Computer Recreations". Turns out he's still in Ontario and even has some homemade Sci-Fi online... http://www.csd.uwo.ca/faculty/akd/TALES/index.html Vat Man Programming Roger The Homunculids Alphie & Omega ...Ross... golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0073.cd29b8202a4b05db3c6f0d71b72a3260.eml000066400000000000000000000163111444326627400311440ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net Thu Aug 29 16:42:46 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDB0C43F9B for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:42:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:42:44 +0100 (IST) Received: from usw-sf-list2.sourceforge.net (usw-sf-fw2.sourceforge.net [216.136.171.252]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7TFYvZ18369 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:34:58 +0100 Received: from usw-sf-list1-b.sourceforge.net ([10.3.1.13] helo=usw-sf-list1.sourceforge.net) by usw-sf-list2.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Exim 3.31-VA-mm2 #1 (Debian)) id 17kRI7-0008KP-00; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:33:03 -0700 Received: from moonbase.zanshin.com ([167.160.213.139]) by usw-sf-list1.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Cipher TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 3.31-VA-mm2 #1 (Debian)) id 17kRHG-000488-00 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:32:10 -0700 Received: from aztec.zanshin.com (IDENT:schaefer@aztec.zanshin.com [167.160.213.132]) by moonbase.zanshin.com (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g7TFW8J23933 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:32:08 -0700 From: Bart Schaefer To: Spamassassin-Talk Subject: Re: [SAtalk] O.T. Habeus -- Why? In-Reply-To: <3D6E255A.CB569D9B@hallikainen.com> Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net Errors-To: spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net X-Beenthere: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.9-sf.net Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Talk about SpamAssassin List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: X-Original-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:32:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:32:08 -0700 (PDT) On 28 Aug 2002, Daniel Quinlan wrote: > Dan Kohn writes: > > > Daniel, it's easy enough for you to change the Habeas scores yourself > > on your installation. If Habeas fails to live up to its promise to > > only license the warrant mark to non-spammers and to place all > > violators on the HIL, then I have no doubt that Justin and Craig will > > quickly remove us from the next release. But, you're trying to kill > > Habeas before it has a chance to show any promise. > > I think I've worked on SA enough to understand that I can localize a > score. I'm just not comfortable with using SpamAssassin as a vehicle > for drumming up your business at the expense of our user base. I have to agree here. If Habeas is going to die just because SA does not support it, that's a serious problem with the business model; but that is nobody's problem but Habeas's. A possible solution is for Habeas's business model to include some kind of incentive for users of SA to give it the benefit of the doubt. I have yet to think of an incentive that fits the bill ... On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Justin Mason wrote: > I don't see a problem supporting it in SpamAssassin -- but I see Dan's > points. > > - high score: as far as I can see, that's because SpamAssassin is > assigning such high scores to legit newsletters these days, and the > Habeas mark has to bring it down below that. :( IMO we have to fix > the high-scorers anyway -- no spam ever *needs* to score over 5 in our > scoring system, 5 == tagged anyway. This is off the topic of the rest of this discussion, but amavisd (in all its incarnations) and MIMEDefang and several other MTA plugins all reject at SMTP time messages that scores higher than some threshold (often 10). If some new release were to start scoring all spam no higher than 5.1, there'd better be _zero_ FPs, because all those filters would drop their thresholds to 5. On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Michael Moncur wrote: > But I agree that there needs to be more focus on eliminating rules that > frequently hit on newsletters. If any newsletters actually use the Habeas > mark, that will be one way to help. Newsletters won't use the mark. Habeas is priced way too high -- a factor of at least 20 over what the market will bear, IMO -- on a per-message basis for most typical mailing lists (Lockergnome, say) to afford it. On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Harold Hallikainen wrote: > Habeus has come up with a very clever way to use existing law to battle > spam. It seems that at some point they could drop the licensing fee to > $1 or less and make all their income off suing the spammers for > copyright infringement. Sorry, that just can't work. If the Habeas mark actually becomes both widespread enough in non-spam, and effectively-enforced enough to be absent from spam, such that, e.g., SA could assign a positive score to messages that do NOT have it, then spammers are out of business and Habeas has no one to sue. There's nobody left to charge except the people who want (or are forced against their will because their mail won't get through otherwise) to use the mark. Conversely, if there are enough spammers forging the mark for Habeas to make all its income suing them, then the mark is useless for the purpose for which it was designed. Either way it seems to me that, after maybe a couple of lawsuits against real spammers and a lot of cease-and-desist letters to clueless Mom&Pops, then either (a) they're out of business, (b) they have to sell the rights to use the mark to increasingly questionable senders, or (c) they've both created and monopolized a market for "internet postage stamps" that everybody has to pay them for. The latter would be quite a coup if they [*] could pull it off -- they do absolutely nothing useful, unless you consider threatening people with lawsuits useful, yet still collect a fee either directly or indirectly from everyone on the internet -- effectively we'll be paying them for the privilege of policing their trademark for them. I don't believe they'll ever get that far, but I don't particularly want to help them make it. [*] And I use the term "they" loosely, because the whole company could consist of one lawyer if it really got to that point. ------------------------------------------------------- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf _______________________________________________ Spamassassin-talk mailing list Spamassassin-talk@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/spamassassin-talk golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0074.78000652dcb19856e85ff9637f0e52dd.eml000066400000000000000000000046101444326627400310600ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie Thu Aug 29 16:42:35 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78D9143F9B for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:42:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:42:35 +0100 (IST) Received: from lugh.tuatha.org (root@lugh.tuatha.org [194.125.145.45]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7TFblZ18551 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:37:47 +0100 Received: from lugh (root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30871; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:36:54 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: lugh.tuatha.org: Host root@localhost [127.0.0.1] claimed to be lugh Received: from relay07.indigo.ie (relay07.indigo.ie [194.125.133.231]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA30845 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:36:46 +0100 Received: (qmail 68679 messnum 1027421 invoked from network[194.125.130.10/unknown]); 29 Aug 2002 15:36:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO win2000) (194.125.130.10) by relay07.indigo.ie (qp 68679) with SMTP; 29 Aug 2002 15:36:44 -0000 Reply-To: From: "Justin MacCarthy" To: "Ilug@Linux.Ie" Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:37:26 +0100 Message-Id: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Subject: [ILUG] Looking for a file / directory in zip file Sender: ilug-admin@linux.ie Errors-To: ilug-admin@linux.ie X-Mailman-Version: 1.1 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Irish Linux Users' Group X-Beenthere: ilug@linux.ie Is there a way to look for a particular file or directory in 100's of zip files?? Something like zgrep but for the filename instead of a word Thanks Justin -- Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information. List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0075.faa4a28fdd9a82edd6d35ebb6bae3085.eml000066400000000000000000000062141444326627400316370ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie Thu Aug 29 16:52:52 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D36DD43F99 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:52:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:52:51 +0100 (IST) Received: from lugh.tuatha.org (root@lugh.tuatha.org [194.125.145.45]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7TFlwZ18861 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:47:58 +0100 Received: from lugh (root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31616; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:46:26 +0100 Received: from dspsrv.com (vir.dspsrv.com [193.120.211.34]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31563 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:45:49 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: lugh.tuatha.org: Host vir.dspsrv.com [193.120.211.34] claimed to be dspsrv.com Received: from itg-gw.cr008.cwt.esat.net ([193.120.242.226] helo=waider.ie) by dspsrv.com with asmtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17kRUR-00052Y-00; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:45:47 +0100 Message-Id: <3D6E409A.9030605@waider.ie> Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:41:14 +0100 From: Waider User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020827 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: macarthy@iol.ie Cc: "Ilug@Linux.Ie" Subject: Re: [ILUG] Looking for a file / directory in zip file References: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.65.2.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: ilug-admin@linux.ie Errors-To: ilug-admin@linux.ie X-Mailman-Version: 1.1 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Irish Linux Users' Group X-Beenthere: ilug@linux.ie -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Justin MacCarthy wrote: | Is there a way to look for a particular file or directory in 100's of zip | files?? | Something like zgrep but for the filename instead of a word | | Thanks Justin | | probably there are more elegant solutions, but if your zips are in one directory you can do something like for i in *.zip do if unzip -v $i | grep -q FILEYOUWANT then ~ echo $i fi done Cheers, Waider. - -- waider@waider.ie / Yes, it /is/ very personal of me -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQEVAwUBPW5AmaHbXyzZsAb3AQH+qQgA1vnUjJUwGDa1yCRQd3vZAnhkCF0KDBBA o9MYq4CUg9cEzKALkTyZu4eOprhL50ReaICUGLMMEc5htU9zove4F+CSuvbAKKHL nx7xa6kk2V+LFnwS6hWpdQolCaT+4iGZZbdFwmyNAWb/IrEYB0R4gp05sitDOl5U RRlzYSM3IUYDrYpDUuX7Ta7bLvSdC1PpWSqy/wXphNIh7Bs2+eB9ERAujuqi6vJo MBichYb3f3teVCQUbxTcaMowjpmv/Xm3gdUlGrUFbpc2O7447Xi5uDfRexzzDoJT HlFS6OO2ZqzcMrtUYEgsfyqpaF1WuD38JoFpa2TmSyX74bBhxS8ecw== =KYCm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information. List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0076.f565b68778786f9b9736f779489331f0.eml000066400000000000000000000057161444326627400306410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie Thu Aug 29 16:52:52 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97DCD43F9B for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:52:52 +0100 (IST) Received: from lugh.tuatha.org (root@lugh.tuatha.org [194.125.145.45]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7TFr2Z18960 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:53:02 +0100 Received: from lugh (root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31908; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:51:27 +0100 Received: from hawk.dcu.ie (mail.dcu.ie [136.206.1.5]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31829 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:51:17 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: lugh.tuatha.org: Host mail.dcu.ie [136.206.1.5] claimed to be hawk.dcu.ie Received: from prodigy.redbrick.dcu.ie (136.206.15.10) by hawk.dcu.ie (6.0.040) id 3D6203D30003D917 for ilug@linux.ie; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:51:17 +0100 Received: by prodigy.redbrick.dcu.ie (Postfix, from userid 2027) id 32184DA4A; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:51:17 +0100 (IST) Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:51:17 +0100 From: Colin Whittaker To: Irish LUG list Message-Id: <20020829165117.A16258@prodigy.Redbrick.DCU.IE> References: <20020829143111.GN1757@jinny.ie> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020829143111.GN1757@jinny.ie>; from valen@tuatha.org on Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 03:31:11PM +0100 Organization: North East Technologies Ltd. X-Subliminal-Message: Give Colin all your money. Subject: [ILUG] Re: serial console...not quite working Sender: ilug-admin@linux.ie Errors-To: ilug-admin@linux.ie X-Mailman-Version: 1.1 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Irish Linux Users' Group X-Beenthere: ilug@linux.ie John P. Looney stated the following on Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 03:31:11PM +0100 : > I'm not sure what exactly is wrong with this, but I can't get a redhat > 7.1 box to use ttyS0 as a console. > > The relevant bits of /boot/grub/grub.conf are: > > serial --unit=0 --speed=115200 > terminal --timeout=2 console serial > title=linux > root (hd0,4) > kernel /boot/bzImage ro root=/dev/md0 console=ttyS0,115200n81 ^ That 1 is unneeded and is probably whats upsetting your kernel we use "console=ttyS0,9600n8" but the 9600 is mainly cos we are a cisco shop and its to keepo everyhting the same. Colin -- "Design" is like a religion - too much of it makes you inflexibly and unpopular. Linus Torvalds -- Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information. List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0077.dc5578862c0e716ee82e78b0dffbc8d2.eml000066400000000000000000000053771444326627400313760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie Thu Aug 29 17:03:22 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8730543F99 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:03:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:03:21 +0100 (IST) Received: from lugh.tuatha.org (root@lugh.tuatha.org [194.125.145.45]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7TFw4Z19203 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:58:04 +0100 Received: from lugh (root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA32495; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:56:53 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: lugh.tuatha.org: Host root@localhost [127.0.0.1] claimed to be lugh Received: from mail04.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (mail04.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net [159.134.118.20]) by lugh.tuatha.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA32465 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:56:45 +0100 Received: (qmail 20521 messnum 1113064 invoked from network[213.190.156.48/unknown]); 29 Aug 2002 15:56:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO XENON16) (213.190.156.48) by mail04.svc.cra.dublin.eircom.net (qp 20521) with SMTP; 29 Aug 2002 15:56:14 -0000 Message-Id: <006001c24f74$dc1acde0$e600000a@XENON16> From: "wintermute" To: References: <3D6E40AA.9080606@diva.ie> Subject: Re: [ILUG] eircoms adsl modems Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 16:58:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 Sender: ilug-admin@linux.ie Errors-To: ilug-admin@linux.ie X-Mailman-Version: 1.1 Precedence: bulk List-Id: Irish Linux Users' Group X-Beenthere: ilug@linux.ie Not true on the choice part. After three weeks of me telling eircom that I did not in fact need nor want their ?1800 worth of router and firewall nor their onsite survey... for the uncapped service I actually managed to get a 4 port modem (after asking for a 1 port modem) instead of ye olde hardware router & firewall and eircom onsite. I would have argued for the 1 port modem... (which I had asked for), but a Director wanted the DSL up ... and fast.... Still it only took me three weeks to get (almost) what I wanted.................................... -- Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information. List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0078.8481bc92aa3ab9d23ca30c0eaecfc5e4.eml000066400000000000000000000045301444326627400315400ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: crackmice-admin@crackmice.com Thu Aug 29 17:13:43 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B715843F99 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:13:43 +0100 (IST) Received: from dogma.slashnull.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7TG7DZ19542; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:07:13 +0100 Received: from mir.eWare.com (mail.eware.com [212.120.152.162]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g7TG6IZ19504 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:06:18 +0100 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.5762.3 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: people we know on the web Message-Id: <0FF9F9D21D89554C8FF8930FFD39BD03A3F587@mir.eWare.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-Tnef-Correlator: Thread-Topic: What kind of celebrity are you? quiz Thread-Index: AcJPWriCN9BF8CjcT1CZSIoGcK21hQAG1WjQ From: "Gerry Carr" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by dogma.slashnull.org id g7TG6IZ19504 Sender: crackmice-admin@crackmice.com Errors-To: crackmice-admin@crackmice.com X-Beenthere: crackmice@crackmice.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: mice@crackmice.com List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: http://crackmice.com/ List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:07:35 +0100 http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/alt/nireland/ni_team.shtml first of a very short series. gerry _______________________________________________ Crackmice mailing list Crackmice@crackmice.com http://crackmice.com/mailman/listinfo/crackmice golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0079.083beadce354774290a4a5bc4175366e.eml000066400000000000000000000055501444326627400311230ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: gordon@rutter.freeserve.co.uk Thu Aug 29 18:06:18 2002 Return-Path: Delivered-To: zzzz@localhost.netnoteinc.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5715544155 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 13:06:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from phobos [127.0.0.1] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0) for zzzz@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:06:17 +0100 (IST) Received: from n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com (n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com [66.218.66.100]) by dogma.slashnull.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g7TH1aZ21336 for ; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:01:36 +0100 X-Egroups-Return: sentto-2242572-53259-1030640499-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [66.218.66.97] by n32.grp.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Aug 2002 17:01:39 -0000 X-Sender: gordon@rutter.freeserve.co.uk X-Apparently-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_1_0_1); 29 Aug 2002 17:01:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 91661 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2002 17:01:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.217) by m14.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 29 Aug 2002 17:01:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk) (195.92.195.171) by mta2.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Aug 2002 17:01:38 -0000 Received: from modem-280.blotto.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.25.145.24] helo=default) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.35 #1) id 17kSfp-0000Al-00; Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:01:37 +0100 Message-Id: <000501c24f7d$8ceace60$1891193e@default> To: Cc: X-Priority: 3 X-Msmail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 From: "Gordon Rutter" X-Yahoo-Profile: gordonrutter MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com; contact forteana-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:00:08 +0100 Subject: [zzzzteana] Fw: [nessie] New Nessie Pics Reply-To: zzzzteana@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gordon Rutter gordon@rutter.freeserve.co.uk Join the Fortean Book Reviews list at forteanbookreviews-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > 
The latest potential pictures of Nessie - underwater - are at 
> www.hi-lands.com



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0080.7c3a836baaa732cd915546442c0fef1a.eml000066400000000000000000000064151444326627400312440ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: iiu-admin@taint.org  Thu Aug 29 18:06:13 2002
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Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 18:04:41 +0100

All,

Is it just me or has there been a massive increase in the amount of email 
being falsely bounced around the place? I've already received email from a 
number of people I don't know, asking why I am sending them email. These 
can be explained by servers from Russia and elsewhere. Coupled with the 
false emails I received myself, it's really starting to annoy me. Am I the 
only one seeing an increase in recent weeks?

Martin



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Subject: [Razor-users] Re: Can't call method "log" with SA/Razor2
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X-Original-Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:17:27 -0700
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:17:27 -0700

This is happening due to insufficient write access to the
"razor-agent.log" file. I was getting the same error, but
only as a non-root user.  As a quick workaround, you can do
"chmod go+w razor-agent.log".

In Agent.pm, when then the Logger object is created, it
doesn't check whether the logfile is writable by the current
user. Then, when a write attempt is made, it bails out with
the "unblessed reference" error.

Hope that helps,
Michael

> I just noticed the following log entries in my syslog with the latest
> Spamassassin CVS (set up using spamc/spamd) and razor-agents 2.14:
>
> Jul 26 17:30:09 timmy spamd[54928]: razor2 check skipped: No such file or
> directory Can't call method "log" on unblessed reference at
> /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.1/Razor2/Client/Agent.pm line 211,
>  line 25.
>
> I saw this after checking if my upgrade from razor-agents 2.12 to 2.14 went
> okay, but the problem is still there after downgrading back to 2.12.  I
> don't really know when this started happening, :-/
>
> Any ideas on the problem?
>
> - Robert





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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0082.7f7858a1a7360410ed120899504c3a25.eml000066400000000000000000000117171444326627400306200ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Mon Sep  2 12:21:22 2002
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Subject: Re: ALSA (almost) made easy
From: Lance 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
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X-Original-Date: 29 Aug 2002 14:30:08 -0500
Date: 29 Aug 2002 14:30:08 -0500

Thanks Matthias.  Actually I got all four speakers with subwoofer
working in digital out mode with gamixer.
(http://www1.tcnet.ne.jp/fmurata/linux/down/)

However switching between analog and digital, I'm still baffled.  As I
have a tuner and cassette deck hooked up to "Line In" on a SBLive! 5.1,
which is in analog mode.  But digital out works great now!

On Wed, 2002-08-28 at 23:26, Matthias Saou wrote:
> Once upon a time, Lance wrote :
> 
> > Ok, I got ALSA installed and there is no static inbetween mp3s like
> > before which is great!  My setup is digital 4.1 but sound is only coming
> > from front 2 speakers and subwoofer, rear speakers there is no sound. 
> > Also alsamixer or aumix are unresponsive as well. 
> 
> Maybe you could find more info or tips on the ALSA page for your card?
> Also, you could try "alsactl store", editing /etc/asound.state" by hand
> (for me it contains data similar to what I can control with "alsamixer")
> then run "alsactl restore" and see if you're able to change what you want
> that way.
> 
> Matthias
> 
> -- 
> Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
> -------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
> System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
> Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23
> 
> _______________________________________________
> RPM-List mailing list 
> http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list
-- 
:
####[ Linux One Stanza Tip (LOST) ]###########################

Sub : Finding out files larger than given size       LOST #324

To find out all files in a dir over a given size, try:
find /path/to/dir_of_file -type f -size +Nk
[Where N is a number like 1024 for 1mb, and multiples thereof] 

####[Discussions on LIH : 04 Jul 2002]########################
:


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0083.e506d3273b3dde9ae2d340cb0197a2a0.eml000066400000000000000000000133761444326627400312410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Mon Sep  2 12:22:38 2002
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Subject: Re: ALSA (almost) made easy
From: Lance 
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X-Original-Date: 29 Aug 2002 15:52:27 -0500
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I want to thank those involved in making these RPMS available.  Thanks
guys, thanks Matthias.

Lance

On Thu, 2002-08-29 at 14:30, Lance wrote:
> Thanks Matthias.  Actually I got all four speakers with subwoofer
> working in digital out mode with gamixer.
> (http://www1.tcnet.ne.jp/fmurata/linux/down/)
> 
> However switching between analog and digital, I'm still baffled.  As I
> have a tuner and cassette deck hooked up to "Line In" on a SBLive! 5.1,
> which is in analog mode.  But digital out works great now!
> 
> On Wed, 2002-08-28 at 23:26, Matthias Saou wrote:
> > Once upon a time, Lance wrote :
> > 
> > > Ok, I got ALSA installed and there is no static inbetween mp3s like
> > > before which is great!  My setup is digital 4.1 but sound is only coming
> > > from front 2 speakers and subwoofer, rear speakers there is no sound. 
> > > Also alsamixer or aumix are unresponsive as well. 
> > 
> > Maybe you could find more info or tips on the ALSA page for your card?
> > Also, you could try "alsactl store", editing /etc/asound.state" by hand
> > (for me it contains data similar to what I can control with "alsamixer")
> > then run "alsactl restore" and see if you're able to change what you want
> > that way.
> > 
> > Matthias
> > 
> > -- 
> > Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
> > -------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
> > System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
> > Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > RPM-List mailing list 
> > http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list
> -- 
> :
> ####[ Linux One Stanza Tip (LOST) ]###########################
> 
> Sub : Finding out files larger than given size       LOST #324
> 
> To find out all files in a dir over a given size, try:
> find /path/to/dir_of_file -type f -size +Nk
> [Where N is a number like 1024 for 1mb, and multiples thereof] 
> 
> ####[Discussions on LIH : 04 Jul 2002]########################
> :
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> RPM-List mailing list 
> http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list
-- 
:
####[ Linux One Stanza Tip (LOST) ]###########################

Sub : Finding out files larger than given size       LOST #324

To find out all files in a dir over a given size, try:
find /path/to/dir_of_file -type f -size +Nk
[Where N is a number like 1024 for 1mb, and multiples thereof] 

####[Discussions on LIH : 04 Jul 2002]########################
:


_______________________________________________
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0084.e84ff95488fab22c26801bcd5bae337e.eml000066400000000000000000000073211444326627400313500ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: sitescooper-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Mon Sep  2 12:22:41 2002
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From: "Larry W. Virden" 
Message-Id: <20020829171046.AAB1816@cas.org>
To: 
Subject: [scoop] Scoop MS Word .doc file into something that plucker or other Palm app can display?
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Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:10:47 -0400 (EDT)

I am wondering whether there's a way that I can use sitescooper and/or plucker
or some other free utility to convert word documents into something a bit
more palmos friendly?

I don't have a Windows machine, so it becomes problematic to convert them;
I know that if this were not the case, in Word I could save them as some
other more friendly format.
-- 
Tcl'2002 Sept 16, 2002, Vancouver, BC http://www.tcl.tk/community/tcl2002/
Larry W. Virden  
Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting should 
be construed as representing my employer's opinions.
-><-


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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

de'i Thursday 29 August 2002 13:36 la Fox cusku di'e
> The following was personal correspondence between two people.  I can't
>
> fathom how Razor thinks it is spam:

Was it sent in HTML? If so, and it had a background, the background may have 
been sent in a spam.

cmeclax
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE9bq9f3/k1hdmG9jMRAk4XAJ9CheEA+/hLIU9zTzfJbPyoPUm+XwCfXgZ1
tg7Fn8JcG9Q13UlKVfaOJzk=
=Mw8+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


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On Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 07:33:44PM -0400, cmeclax po'u le cmevi'u ke'umri wrote:
> 
> Was it sent in HTML? If so, and it had a background, the background may have 
> been sent in a spam.

razor-agents 2.14 needs all parts to be spam to make a positive decision
(though this will change with the next release), so it couldn't have been
a background. Could you send me the debug log?

cheers,
vipul.

-- 

Vipul Ved Prakash          |   "The future is here, it's just not 
Software Design Artist     |    widely distributed."
http://vipul.net/          |              -- William Gibson



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Good Day!

On Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 05:10:47PM -0400, Larry W. Virden wrote:
> I am wondering whether there's a way that I can use sitescooper and/or plucker
> or some other free utility to convert word documents into something a bit
> more palmos friendly?

	You could try antiword (http://www.winfield.demon.nl/linux/).
It's consoled based and converts word 6+ docs to text and some images to
postscript and png.  You could also try openoffice and/or abiword if you
have x installed.

> I don't have a Windows machine, so it becomes problematic to convert them;
> I know that if this were not the case, in Word I could save them as some
> other more friendly format.

	Great! ;)

Mabuhay! barryg

-- 
Barry Dexter A. Gonzaga, bofh
barryg@kssp.upd.edu.ph 


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use Perl Daily Headline Mailer

Installing Perl 5.8.0 on Mac OS X 10.2
    posted by pudge on Thursday August 29, @15:03 (releases)
    http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/29/193225




Copyright 1997-2002 pudge.  All rights reserved.


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use Perl Daily Newsletter

In this issue:
    * Installing Perl 5.8.0 on Mac OS X 10.2

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Installing Perl 5.8.0 on Mac OS X 10.2                             |
|   posted by pudge on Thursday August 29, @15:03 (releases)         |
|   http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/29/193225               |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

[0]Morbus Iff writes "The newest release of Apple's operating system, Mac
OS X v10.2 (Jaguar) comes with perl 5.6.0, surprisingly old for their
latest offering. In an [1]Internet Developer article, I walk the Mac OS X
user through installing perl 5.8.0, and as well provide a brief
introduction to CPAN."

Discuss this story at:
    http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/08/29/193225

Links:
    0. mailto:morbus@disobey.com
    1. http://developer.apple.com/internet/macosx/perl.html



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On 14:22 29 Aug 2002, Matthias Saou  wrote:
| Once upon a time, Axel wrote :
| > I am now relaxed again ;), and pass this info on. Probably Matthias Saou
| > himself is "dude", and some package has hardwired a path in his build
| > directory. It would be nice to find out which and fix it, but I am using
| > too many of the freshrpm suite to narrow it down.
| 
| Indeed, my usual login is "dude" (and has been since long before "The Big
| Lebowsky" came out ;-)), and it seems the some programs wrongly hard code
| my home directory when being compiled :-(
| For instance :
| 
| [dude@python dude]$ strings /usr/bin/gentoo | grep dude
| /home/dude/
| [dude@python dude]$ strings /usr/bin/xine | grep dude
| /home/dude/redhat/tmp/xine-root/usr/share/locale
| 
| These should probably be considered bugs in the program's build process
| (especially for xine, look at that!), I'll report them upstream if/when I
| have some time.

This is a standard trap for people building things from source. It's
generally wise to have a special "build" environment to avoid these
hassles. Most likely you have some library loading path in your env. An
strace of the app will show it:

	the-app 2>&1 | grep dude

Personally, I have a script called logbuild whose entire purpose is to
start a shell with a minimal build environment, logged with script. The
prevents this kind of error. Since configure yanks all sorts of ill
documented values from one's environment for use in the build (CC, ARCH,
various LD_* variables) this kind of thing is necessary.

Often the easiest thing is to have a special nonroot account with no .profile
for building stuff.

Cheers,
-- 
Cameron Simpson, DoD#743        cs@zip.com.au    http://www.zip.com.au/~cs/

Do not taunt Happy Fun Coder.

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Subject: Re: [scoop] Scoop MS Word .doc file into something that plucker or other Palm app can display?
From: unlisted 
To: "Larry W. Virden" 
Cc: sitescooper-talk@example.sourceforge.net,
	"Barry Dexter A. Gonzaga" 
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X-Original-Date: 30 Aug 2002 08:50:38 -0500
Date: 30 Aug 2002 08:50:38 -0500

On Thu, 2002-08-29 at 19:27, Barry Dexter A. Gonzaga wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 05:10:47PM -0400, Larry W. Virden wrote:
> > I am wondering whether there's a way that I can use sitescooper and/or plucker
> > or some other free utility to convert word documents into something a bit
> > more palmos friendly?
> 
> 	You could try antiword (http://www.winfield.demon.nl/linux/).
> It's consoled based and converts word 6+ docs to text and some images to
> postscript and png.

also there's catdoc and wv for Word --> text conversions.  actually, wv
consists of wvWare, which as the manpage says "converts word documents
into other formats such as PS, PDF, HTML, LaTeX, DVI, ABW".  HTML would
probably be the best format for use with Plucker/SiteScooper, depending
on how good the DOC --> HTML conversion is.  i haven't used either in
over a year as AbiWord or OpenOffice work well enough.  (prefer AbiWord
for it's light-weight size, but OpenOffice has the better DOC importer.)

don't know which of these are better or worse than the other, but i
figure, "the more the merrier". ;-)

> You could also try openoffice and/or abiword if you
> have x installed.

AbiWord supports exporting to PalmDoc (.pdb) which is about as
PalmOS-friendly as you can get.  never tried/needed it, but it's listed
there in the "Save As" dialog box.

Wine (or CrossOver Office, if you already have it) may support Word
Viewer (free download from Microsoft), but didn't a year or so ago when
i last tried.  Word Viewer is what i used back in the day to convert
Word 97 docs to Word 95, as you could display the Word 97 doc and copy &
paste the text (with formatting) into Word 95, which was the only
version of Word that i had.  anyways, a little nostalgia.

> > I don't have a Windows machine, so it becomes problematic to convert them;
> > I know that if this were not the case, in Word I could save them as some
> > other more friendly format.

i have a windows (dual-boot) machine, but it only get used by my
significant other and for burning multi-session cd-r/rw.  (is there any
linux gui app that supports cdrecord's multi-session feature?)  since
OpenOffice, i've been able to edit Word docs flawlessly (or at least the
simple Word documents i receive from others).

anyways...
-- 

PLEASE REQUEST PERMISSION TO REDISTRIBUTE
   AUTHOR'S COMMENTS OR EMAIL ADDRESS.



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I'm using Simple DNS from JHSoft.  We support only a few web sites and =
I'd like to swap secondary services with someone in a similar position.

We have a static IP, DSL line and a 24/7 set of web, SQL, mail and now a =
DNS server.  As I said, we are hosting about 10 web sites, web and DNS =
traffic is almost nothing.  Everything is on lightly loaded APC battery =
backups so we are very seldom down.

I'd like to swap with someone also using Simple DNS to take advantage of =
the trusted zone file transfer option.



Bob Musser
Database Services, Inc.
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Winter Park FL 32792
(407) 679-1539



------=_NextPart_000_00C1_01C25017.F2F04E20
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	charset="Windows-1252"
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I'm using Simple DNS from JHSoft.  We support =
only a few=20
web sites and I'd like to swap secondary services with someone in a =
similar=20
position.


 


We have a static IP, DSL line and a 24/7 set of web, =
SQL, mail=20
and now a DNS server.  As I said, we are hosting about 10 web =
sites, web=20
and DNS traffic is almost nothing.  Everything is on lightly loaded =
APC=20
battery backups so we are very seldom down.


 


I'd like to swap with someone also using Simple DNS =
to take=20
advantage of the trusted zone file transfer option.


 


 


 


Bob Musser
Database Services, Inc.
Makers=20
of:
   Process Server's Toolbox
   Courier =
Service=20
Toolbox
BobM@dbsinfo.com
www.dbsinfo.com
106 Longhorn =
Road
Winter=20
Park FL 32792
(407) 679-1539


 


 


------=_NextPart_000_00C1_01C25017.F2F04E20--


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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:30:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Tiny DNS Swap
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From: Javier Cota 
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Bob

We are a commercial company who host around 150 web sites on each of it=20=

servers, we can=B4t swap with you because we need someone in a similar=20=

position.

Thank you

Javier

El Viernes, 30 agosto, 2002, a las 10:25 AM, Bob Musser escribi=F3:

> I'm using Simple DNS from JHSoft.=A0 We support only a few web sites =
and=20
> I'd like to swap secondary services with someone in a similar > =
position.
> =A0
> We have a static IP, DSL line and a 24/7 set of web, SQL, mail and now=20=

> a DNS server.=A0 As I said, we are hosting about 10 web sites, web and=20=

> DNS traffic is almost nothing.=A0 Everything is on lightly loaded APC=20=

> battery backups so we are very seldom down.
> =A0
> I'd like to swap with someone also using Simple DNS to take advantage=20=

> of the trusted zone file transfer option.
> =A0
> =A0
> =A0
> Bob Musser
> Database Services, Inc.
> Makers of:
> =A0=A0 Process Server's Toolbox
> =A0=A0 Courier Service Toolbox
> BobM@dbsinfo.com
> www.dbsinfo.com
> 106 Longhorn Road
> Winter Park FL 32792
> (407) 679-1539
> =A0
> =A0
>
---
Atentamente
Javier Cota
Integraci=F3n tecnol=F3gica
52723341
javier@linkcreations.com.mx


--Apple-Mail-2-874629474
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	charset=ISO-8859-1

Bob


We are a commercial company who host around 150 web sites on each of
it servers, we can=B4t swap with you because we need someone in a
similar position.


Thank you


Javier=20


El Viernes, 30 agosto, 2002, a las 10:25 AM, Bob Musser escribi=F3:


I'm using Simple DNS from JHSoft.=A0 We support only a
few web sites and I'd like to swap secondary services with someone in
a similar position.

=A0

We have a static IP, DSL line and a 24/7 set of web, SQL,
mail and now a DNS server.=A0 As I said, we are hosting about 10 web
sites, web and DNS traffic is almost nothing.=A0 Everything is on
lightly loaded APC battery backups so we are very seldom down.

=A0

I'd like to swap with someone also using Simple DNS to take
advantage of the trusted zone file transfer option.

=A0

=A0

=A0

Bob Musser

Database Services, Inc.

Makers of:

=A0=A0 Process Server's Toolbox

=A0=A0 Courier Service Toolbox

1999,1999,FFFFBobM@dbsinfo.com

www.dbsinfo.com

106 Longhorn Road

Winter Park FL 32792

(407) 679-1539

=A0

=A0


---

Atentamente

Javier Cota

Integraci=F3n tecnol=F3gica

52723341

javier@linkcreations.com.mx



--Apple-Mail-2-874629474--


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 _   _ _____ _  __ <*the* weekly high-tech sarcastic update for the uk>
| \ | |_   _| |/ / _ __   __2002-08-30_ o join! mail an empty message to
|  \| | | | | ' / | '_ \ / _ \ \ /\ / / o ntknow-subscribe@lists.ntk.net
| |\  | | | | . \ | | | | (_) \ v  v /  o website (+ archive) lives at:
|_| \_| |_| |_|\_\|_| |_|\___/ \_/\_/   o     http://www.ntk.net/


        "A case in point is web designer Matt Jones, the man 
         responsible for how BBC News Online looked when it launched. 
         Since then, he has invented 'warchalking', which he recently 
         described as a 'curse'..."
                              http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/2210091.stm
                  - but you cannot turn against me! I... created you!


                                >> HARD NEWS <<
                               stiffening sinews

         More hot summer days in the mailinglist alleyways,
         dangerously empty of sane postings, strewn with the rotting
         carcasses of broiling vacation messages. Hacktress and
         Silicon Valley's chief rat-keeper LILE ELAM, excitedly posts
         about a new open 802.11 network she's found. "I am here at
         the police station waiting to see a judge and I thought I
         would check to see if there is connectivity", she writes,
         somewhat recklessly, to the Bay Area Wireless list. Exit
         the rest of the Wifi community through the nearest window
         and out into the streets... where, cooling tempers, the
         Microsoft Palladium boys are on an endless summer tour,
         reassuring the experts that while, hmm, they *suppose* Pd
         could *theoretically* be used as a Hollywood DRM system,
         they truly have no plans to do any such thing. Cypherpunk
         and friend of freedom Lucky Green hears this; thinks up four
         or five of the obvious Palladium DRM implementations; sends
         them off to be patented in his name. Licensing funds, we
         imagine, will go on cracking his own DRMs. And so the mail
         loops on.
         http://lists.bawug.org/pipermail/wireless/2002-August/008507.html
                                 - administrivia: HI MOM, I'M IN JAIL
    http://www.mail-archive.com/cryptography@wasabisystems.com/msg02554.html
                             - Green/Palladium, like Green Kryptonite

         Could Lucky get himself arrested under the DMCA for
         distributing a circumvention device? Worse: now we have the
         EUCD incoming, could he here in the UK? Will Alan Cox go to
         jail for posting detailed Changelogs? Will even the nicest
         UK cryptographer (or curious garage tinkerer) find
         themselves hauled up under our new and scarily DMCAish
         copyright regime? Find out the facts at the free FAIR DEAL
         FOR COPYRIGHT conference, organised by the irrepressible
         FOUNDATION FOR INFORMATION POLICY RESEARCH for Wednesday
         2002-09-18 at the London School of Economics. All the usual
         fun from the creators of the Scrambling for Safety crypto
         cons: we confidently predict government spokesmen caught in
         headlights, wanton Dave Bird heckling, some industry bigwig
         fighting off the audience with a broken chairleg, and other
         epiphenomena of the interzone between legal minds and hacker
         ethics. Oh, and FIPR are still looking for a Programme
         Director, so if you're interested, let them know. We
         suggested a convention raffle (first prize: the director's
         job, second prize: Ross Anderson as your personal slave for
         a day). They say there's some rule that would break, though.
         http://www.fipr.org/vacancy.html
- doesn't the Foundation use psychohistory for filling these positions?

         For those of us who can't read the abbreviation EULA without 
         thinking of Martian fighting machines and their "deafening 
         howls... which roared like thunder", we're sorry to report 
         that this weekend's multimedia performance of Jeff Wayne's WAR 
         OF THE WORLDS has been postponed due to "health and safety 
         issues". The event was to feature computer graphics, 
         fireworks, "60ft-tall Martian fighting machines" wreaking 
         "havoc and destruction", and - most terrifyingly of all - the 
         possibility of a David Essex tribute singer performing with 
         Hawkwind, but UKP18 tickets for the Sat 2002-08-31 show at 
         Manchester's Heaton Park will still be valid at a range of new 
         venues next summer. Ironically, the Martians' original 
         invasion plans were similarly thwarted by health and safety 
         issues, "slain after all man's devices had failed by the 
         humblest creatures that God, in his wisdom, has put upon this 
         earth: bacteria. Minute, invisible, bacteria. For, directly 
         the invaders arrived and drank and fed, our microscopic allies 
         attacked them..."
         http://www.waroftheworlds.info/postpone.htm
                           - "...From that moment, they were doomed."


                                >> ANTI-NEWS <<
                             berating the obvious

         moving on from PUERILE GOOGLE MISSPELLINGS, weird search-and-
         replace artefact: http://www.google.com/search?q=consideyellow ,
         Japanese fan sites for "plince", "steery dan", "def reppard" 
         et al, plus the 18,000 or more self-referential Usenet .sigs: 
         http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22get+random+signatures%22 
         ...http://www.colocation-network.com/ "Zerodowntime" ad leads 
         to: http://www.ntk.net/2002/08/30/dohzero.gif ... slightly 
         harsh alt text: http://www.ntk.net/2002/08/30/dohover.gif ... 
         US military discovers the only "translator" those bastards 
         seem to understand: http://www.ntk.net/2002/08/30/dohgun.gif 
         ... scary blue men herald return of the bizarre BBC hacking 
         pics: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/1494091.stm ... reporter RYAN 
         DILLEY http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2202552.stm pulls his 
         http://starwars.org.pl/galeria/e2/char/anakin/t001.jpg face 
         ... banjo maestro GEORGE FORMBY still alive, cooking, black: 
     http://www.readersheds.co.uk/readersheds/shop.cfm?WOSNAMES=Wosnames
         ... thanks guys, that ought to do it: http://www.eap.ca/ ... 
         

                               >> EVENT QUEUE <<
                         goto's considered non-harmful

         Controversially, we're all in favour of THE GUARDIAN GREAT 
         BRITISH BLOG COMPETITION (closing date next Fri 2002-09-06, 
         first prize UKP1000, entry free), in that any initiative that 
         encourages this notoriously primadonna-ish "community" to try 
         and engage with real-world notions of editorial quality surely 
         has to be a good thing. Our only disappointment is that The 
         Guardian appears to be focussing on the "best" of the entries, 
         when everyone knows the real fun is to be had cruising the 
         truly terrible examples that the genre has to offer, mentally 
         allocating points for "Most Depressing Recycling Of Daypop Top
         40 URLs", "Most Unsettling Revelations About Personal Life", 
         plus of course "Most Tedious Linking/Reciprocal Linking To Other 
         Bloggers In Absence Of Having Anything Interesting To Say". 
         http://www.guardian.co.uk/weblog/bestbritishblog/
                              - "A strange game, Professor Falken..."
       http://media.guardian.co.uk/newmedia/comment/0,7496,765161,00.html
                         - "...the only winning move is not to play."


                                >> TRACKING <<
               sufficiently advanced technology : the gathering

          The respective trademark holders will hate this, but
          Windows really *is* like the Sun. You have this big hulking
          mass of concentrated power in the middle, with a few small
          orbiting utilities - like WinZip, and PuTTY, and VNC.
          Occasionally one will get a bit too close to the OS, and
          Microsoft will suck it down and turn it into fuel for the
          System. One such discrete satellite remains FILEZILLA, the
          still-necessary ftp gui client for Windows. Those who know
          it won't need the introduction, although they might
          appreciate the note that it's getting close to v2.0 time.
          For dogged WS_FTP users, though, it's got multiple
          downloads, auto-restart of interrupted 'loads, queuing, and
          sftp and Kerberos support. It's also GPL'd which makes it a
          nice bit of source for anyone wanting to grok Win32
          networking from something that works.
          http://filezilla.sf.net/
  - talking of trademarks, will the Godzilla people strike before MS?


                                >> MEMEPOOL <<
                ceci n'est pas une http://www.gagpipe.com/

         (Not safe for work) next year's RED NOSE DAY looks more fun 
         than usual: http://www.threepillows.com/tour2.htm ... Mirrored 
         Disaster Recovery Suite - to go with mirrored bathroom etc?: 
       http://www.dovebid.com/Auctions/AuctionDetail.asp?AuctionID=1450
         ... and then the kid can take you to court for mental cruelty: 
         http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/08/27/turok.baby.reut/ ... 
         "funny" prefixes in front of "chalking" #n+1 - the actually 
         quite pragmatic: http://www.pinkbunny.co.uk/poochalking/ ... 
         no longer knowing - or caring - if these are prank AMAZON 
         reviews or not, for Potter's ever-popular "vibrating" broom: 
     http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/toys/B00005NEBW/
         ... ditto "Use This Software At Your Own Risk" disclaimer for: 
         http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm?prodID=41030 
         ... DAFFY DUCK appears in dock - accused of "dethpicable" 
         behaviour?: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2223065.stm , 
         http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_659889.html ...


                                >> GEEK MEDIA <<
                                  get out less

         TV>> celebrity cameo night tonight, with Brad Pitt in FRIENDS 
         (9pm, Fri, C4), Sydney Pollack in WILL AND GRACE (9.30pm, Fri, 
         C4), Dustin Hoffman in V GRAHAM NORTON (10.30pm, Fri, C4), and 
         a singing, dancing peanut in globalised trade documentary ALT-
         TV (7.30pm, Fri, C4)... the BBC have kept McEnroe and the 
         heart monitor, got rid of the live crocodiles in gimmicky 
         quizshow THE CHAIR (6.40pm, Sat, BBC1)... and a month of 
         "September 11th" specials kicks off with AVENGING TERROR (8pm, 
         Sat & Sun, C4) - yet those responsible for BOWFINGER (9pm, 
         Sat, C4) and NOTTING HILL (9pm, Sun, C4) still remain 
         unpunished... John "The Last Seduction" Dahl's ROUNDERS (11pm, 
         Sat, BBC2) turns out to be about high-stakes poker, rather 
         than the girls' version of baseball... in the wake of DAVE 
         GORMAN'S IMPORTANT ASTROLOGY EXPERIMENT (10.40pm, Sun, BBC2), 
         how about a three-way challenge where he, Tony Hawks and Pete 
         McCarthy battle to come up with the most lucrative pointless 
         pretext for a book and TV show?... but we still have a soft 
         spot for Ron "Alien: Resurrection" Perlman liberal self-
         flagellation THE LAST SUPPER (11.20pm, Sun, C4)... 9/11 CLEAR 
         THE SKIES (9pm, Sun, BBC2) is a presumably uneventful account 
         of "how US air defence systems responded to the events of 
         September 11th"... inexplicably, the three finalists in THE 
         TARTIEST MEN IN BRITAIN (10.30pm, Mon, ITV) all come from 
         Leeds... Larry Clark takes a somewhat indirect approach to 
         conveying his safe-sex message in New York filth-fest KIDS 
         (1.15am, Tue, C4)... and the September 11th build-up continues 
         with HOW THE TWIN TOWERS COLLAPSED (8pm, Mon, C4), LET'S ROLL: 
         THE STORY OF FLIGHT 93 (10.30pm, Wed, ITV), plus THE MEYSSAN 
         CONSPIRACY (11.05pm, Tue, C4) - ie the French guy behind: 
       http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm
         ... away from the polluted nightmare of modern living, a 
         family seek out a new way of life in Earth Summit tie-in A 
         LAND WORTH LOVING (7pm, Wed, BBC1)... which coincidentally 
         also forms the plot of this week's second Heather "Bowfinger" 
         Graham turkey, LOST IN SPACE (7.55pm, Wed, BBC1) - not to be 
         confused with the return of those annoying posh women in 
         WORLD'S WORST DRESSED (8pm, Wed, BBC2), who have at least shut 
         up about their always-doomed hideously purple e-commerce 
         site: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/712188.stm ...
         
         FILM>> the comic skills of Cameron Diaz, Christina Applegate 
         and Parker Posey combine in a cross between a teen smut comedy 
         and an episode of "Sex And The City", THE SWEETEST THING 
         ( http://www.screenit.com/movies/2002/the_sweetest_thing.html :
         As [Diaz] and [Applegate] drive down the road still dressed in 
         just their bras and underwear, [Applegate] drops her bottle of 
         fingernail polish. [Diaz] then goes over to get it, with 
         her panty-covered butt in the air and her head down toward 
         [Applegate]'s legs and crotch; [Selma Blair] [has] her mouth 
         stuck around a man's privates after apparently performing oral 
         sex on him)... Robin Williams plays a surprisingly convincing 
         Hannibal Lecter in morally complicated Alaskan Al Pacino 
         murder madness INSOMNIA ( http://www.cndb.com/ : You can see 
         [Crystal Lowe's] tits in autopsy photos and again - along with 
         bush - when she's seen on a autopsy table. Nice boobs but 
         she's dead)... it's Eddie Murphy, Randy Quaid, Jay "Jerry 
         Maguire" Mohr, John Cleese and Pam Grier - together at last! - 
         in blaxploitation sci-fi spoof THE ADVENTURES OF PLUTO NASH 
  ( http://www.screenit.com/movies/2002/the_adventures_of_pluto_nash.html :
         the woman then causes the image of [Rosario "Kids" Dawson] to 
         suddenly have much larger breasts and an exaggeratedly large 
         rear end)... all of which, shockingly, are an improvement on 
         John Woo interspersing lame battle scenes with agonising anti-
         racist philosophising in WW2 Navajo crypto clunker WINDTALKERS 
         ( http://www.capalert.com/capreports/windtalkers.htm : 
         gambling; beheading; brief partial nudity of a Japanese 
         soldier; I have no doubt that such gore is present in war but 
         must it be regurgitated in and as entertainment?)... 


                               >> SMALL PRINT <<

       Need to Know is a useful and interesting UK digest of things that
         happened last week or might happen next week. You can read it
       on Friday afternoon or print it out then take it home if you have
     nothing better to do. It is compiled by NTK from stuff they get sent.
                       Registered at the Post Office as
                     "yeah, but bet we were banned first"
                    http://www.b3ta.com/newsletter/issue54/


                                 NEED TO KNOW
            THEY STOLE OUR REVOLUTION. NOW WE'RE STEALING IT BACK.
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              Your country may be at risk if you fail to comply.





golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0095.b51416f612ac5737e0f4a5529ce453d1.eml000066400000000000000000000030621444326627400310320ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: justin.armstrong@acm.org  Mon Sep  2 12:29:05 2002
Replied: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 16:16:00 +0100
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From: Justin Armstrong 
Subject: find the bug
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:36:46 +0100
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//this function should print all numbers up to 100...

void print_nums()
{
  int i;

  for(i = 0; i < 10l; i++) {
    printf("%d\n",i);
  }

}

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0096.0446f3ed63b550a8622c8671d8ae9a9c.eml000066400000000000000000000044431444326627400311360ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: DNS-swap@lists.ironclad.net.au  Mon Sep  2 12:29:06 2002
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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:39:57 +0400
From: "Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris)" 
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To: "Bob Musser" 
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Hello!


Friday, August 30, 2002, 7:25:31 PM Bob Musser  wrote:

[lost]

BM> I'd like to swap with someone also using Simple DNS to take
BM> advantage of the trusted zone file transfer option.
                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Are you speaking about limiting AXFR requests on IP address basis? If
yes, then virtually every BIND-equipped DNS server in the world will
be suitable for your needs.


-- 

Yours sincerely,

Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris)     http://www.andris.msk.ru/


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To: "Customers" 
Subject: Save up to 70% on international calls!
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 17:42:52 +0100
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........... with our telecoms partner Bumblebee !

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=====================================================================

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0098.5053f669dda8f920e5300ed327cdd986.eml000066400000000000000000000141611444326627400311430ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: updates-admin@ximian.com  Mon Sep  2 12:29:39 2002
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From: Ximian GNOME Security Team 
To: Ximian Desktop Updates List 
Cc: BugTraq Mailing List 
Subject: [Ximian Updates] Hyperlink handling in Gaim allows arbitrary code to be executed
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Severity: Security
Product: gaim
Keywords: gaim hyperlink manual
References: 
  CAN-2002-0989 
    http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CAN-2002-0989
  Gaim Changelog
    http://gaim.sourceforge.net/ChangeLog

Gaim is an instant messaging client based on the published TOC
protocol from AOL. The developers of Gaim, an instant messenger client
that combines several different networks, found a vulnerability in the
hyperlink handling code. The 'Manual' browser command passes an
untrusted string to the shell without escaping or reliable quoting,
permitting an attacker to execute arbitrary commands on the users
machine. Unfortunately, Gaim doesn't display the hyperlink before the
user clicks on it. Users who use other inbuilt browser commands aren't
vulnerable.

The fixed version of Gaim no longer passes the user's manual browser
command to the shell. Commands which contain the %s in quotes will
need to be amended, so they don't contain any quotes. The 'Manual'
browser command can be edited in the 'General' pane of the
'Preferences' dialog, which can be accessed by clicking 'Options' from
the login window, or 'Tools' and then 'Preferences' from the menu bar
in the buddy list window.

Please download Gaim 0.59.1 or later using Red Carpet. You may also
obtain this update from the Ximian FTP site.

Debian Potato
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/debian-potato-i386/gaim_0.59.1-1.ximian.2_i386.deb
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/debian-potato-i386/gaim-common_0.59.1-1.ximian.2_i386.deb
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/debian-potato-i386/gaim-gnome_0.59.1-1.ximian.2_i386.deb

Mandrake 8.0
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/mandrake-80-i586/gaim-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.i586.rpm

Mandrake 8.1
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/mandrake-81-i586/gaim-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.i586.rpm

Mandrake 8.2
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/mandrake-82-i586/gaim-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.i586.rpm

Redhat 6.2
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/redhat-62-i386/gaim-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.i386.rpm
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/redhat-62-i386/gaim-applet-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.i386.rpm

Redhat 7.0
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/redhat-70-i386/gaim-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.i386.rpm
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/redhat-70-i386/gaim-applet-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.i386.rpm

Redhat 7.1
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/redhat-71-i386/gaim-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.i386.rpm
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/redhat-71-i386/gaim-applet-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.i386.rpm

Redhat 7.2
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/redhat-72-i386/gaim-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.i386.rpm
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/redhat-72-i386/gaim-applet-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.i386.rpm

Redhat 7.3
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/redhat-73-i386/gaim-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.i386.rpm
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/redhat-73-i386/gaim-applet-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.i386.rpm

Solaris 7/8
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/solaris-7-sun4/gaim-0.59.1-2.ximian.1.sparc.rpm

SuSE 7.1
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/suse-71-i386/gaim-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.i386.rpm
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/suse-71-i386/gaim-applet-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.i386.rpm

SuSE 7.2
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/suse-72-i386/gaim-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.i386.rpm
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/suse-72-i386/gaim-applet-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.i386.rpm

SuSE 7.3
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/suse-73-i386/gaim-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.i386.rpm
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/suse-73-i386/gaim-applet-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.i386.rpm

SuSE 8.0
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/suse-80-i386/gaim-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.i386.rpm
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/suse-80-i386/gaim-applet-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.i386.rpm

Yellowdog 2.0
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/yellowdog-20-ppc/gaim-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.ppc.rpm
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/yellowdog-20-ppc/gaim-applet-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.ppc.rpm

Yellowdog 2.1
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/yellowdog-21-ppc/gaim-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.ppc.rpm
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/yellowdog-21-ppc/gaim-applet-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.ppc.rpm

Yellowdog 2.2
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/yellowdog-22-ppc/gaim-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.ppc.rpm
ftp://ftp.ximian.com/pub/ximian-gnome/yellowdog-22-ppc/gaim-applet-0.59.1-1.ximian.2.ppc.rpm



_______________________________________________
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0099.9f54be08406e67fd8944f2f1d0fbdd90.eml000066400000000000000000000052501444326627400313070ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: 0xdeadbeef-request@petting-zoo.net  Mon Sep  2 12:31:10 2002
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Subject: Promises.
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Forwarded-by: Rob Windsor 
Forwarded-by: "Shirley Baer"
Forwarded-by: cjw59068
Forwarded-by: Joe & Allie Greenough

There were four buddies golfing and the first guy said, "I had to
promise my wife that I would paint the whole outside of the house
just to go golfing."

The second guy said, "I promised my wife that I would remodel the
kitchen for her."

The third guy said, "You guys have it easy! I promised my wife that
I would build her a new deck." They continued to play the hole.
Then the first guy said to the fourth guy, "What did you have to
promise your wife?"

The fourth guy replied, "I didn't promise anything." All the guys
were shocked, "How did you do it?!" He replied, "It's simple. I
set the alarm clock for 5:30. Then I poked my wife and asked, 'Golf
course or intercourse?' And she said, 'Wear your sweater.'"


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0100.1728f45047ff2a1601d4e3ee91f26a00.eml000066400000000000000000000101071444326627400310070ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Mon Sep  2 12:32:39 2002
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Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:56:47 -0700

I am trying to rebuild the recently posted ALSA driver package for my 
kernel.  Although I run Red Hat 7.3, I am not using a Red Hat kernel 
package: my kernel is lovingly downloaded, configured, and built by 
hand.  Call me old fashioned.

Sadly, the RPM rebuild fails part way through:

     % rpm --rebuild alsa-driver-0.9.0rc3-fr6.src.rpm

     gcc -DALSA_BUILD -D__KERNEL__ -DMODULE=1 \
     -I/usr/src/redhat/BUILD/alsa-driver-0.9.0rc3/include \
     -I/lib/modules/2.4.18/build/include -O2 \
     -mpreferred-stack-boundary=2 -march=i686 -DLINUX -Wall \
     -Wstrict-prototypes -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe   -DEXPORT_SYMTAB \
     -c sound.c

     sound.c:41: `snd_hack_usb_set_interface' undeclared here (not in a \
     function)

     sound.c:41: initializer element is not constant

     sound.c:41: (near initialization for \
     __ksymtab_snd_hack_usb_set_interface.value')

     make[1]: *** [sound.o] Error 1

The line in question looks like this:

	/* USB workaround */
	#if LINUX_VERSION_CODE < KERNEL_VERSION(2, 5, 24)
	#if defined(CONFIG_SND_USB_AUDIO) || \
	defined(CONFIG_SND_USB_AUDIO_MODULE) || \
	defined(CONFIG_SND_USB_MIDI) || \
	defined(CONFIG_SND_USB_MIDI_MODULE)
-41-> 
EXPORT_SYMBOL(snd_hack_usb_set_interface);
	#endif
	#endif

Any suggestions?


_______________________________________________
RPM-List mailing list 
http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0101.48557f7f38d947eab77aefc03d0520a3.eml000066400000000000000000000123051444326627400311760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Aug 23 11:08:40 2002
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Bill Stoddard wrote:

>>No one likes commercial spam. 
>>    
>>
>And no one like unsolicited political spam. End of story.
>
>Bill 
>http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
>  
>
Except perhaps for the people in charge.
Owen

http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1105-954903.html


*Political spam on your cell phone?*
By Lisa M. Bowman 
Special to ZDNet News
August 22, 2002, 12:05 PM PT
URL: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1105-954909.html 
<%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1105-954909.html%0A%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20> 


*In a decision that treats text messaging on mobile phones essentially 
the same as bumper stickers, the Federal Election Commission has 
declared that senders of text-based political ads don't have to disclose 
who funded them.*

In an advisory opinion issued Thursday, the FEC also suggested such 
messages include either a phone number or Web site link, so people could 
easily learn who paid for the message. However, the additional 
information won't be required.

The opinion could encourage the adoption of text-based political ads, as 
campaign experts look for new technological ways to sway voters. At the 
same time, opponents of the plan fear it could lead to anonymous 
political spam.

Target Wireless, a small New Jersey-based wireless media company, had 
asked the FEC for an opinion on the matter, saying that requiring 
financial disclosures on short messaging service (SMS) mailings would 
use up too much of the 160 character-maximum.

Political messages on bumper stickers and buttons are also exempt from 
the financial disclosure requirement. Target Wireless' petition was 
supported by the National Republican Senatorial Committee, the Cellular 
Telecommunications and Internet Association, and some advertising trade 
groups.

FEC spokesman Bob Biersack said the opinion was in keeping with the 
commission's policy not to meddle with new technology that has the 
potential to reach more voters.

"We have tried very hard not to get in the way--particularly before 
everyone understands how the technology is going to work," he said.

Opponents of the plan have worried the exemption might encourage spam or 
allow senders to blast people with mass amounts of negative political 
messages while remaining anonymous.

Biersack said the FEC can revisit the issue if those problems surface.

Target Wireless President Craig Krueger characterized the opinion as 
"good for America."

"It will allow people to receive more communication from those running 
for office," he said. "We have free speech on our side."




--------------080808010909060409040405--

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On Fri, 23 Aug 2002, Robert Harley wrote:

--]Next time I hear a joke, I promise not to laugh until I have checked
--]out primary sources for confirmation in triplicate, OK?


Oh please. Walking sideways like that is bad for your shoes.

Though it is kinda cute when you get all reasonomatic

bang bang

have a nice day.



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Dan Brickley wrote:
> Except that thanks to the magic of spam, it's usually some else's locale

yeah, physical mail makes more sense for physical locales.

> There are better technical solutions to privacy
> protection than sending a copy of the same message to everyone on the
> Internet, so the recipients can't be blamed for reading it.

Such as?

Anything equivalent will be spam, just not email spam.  Dump entry IPs for
an anonymizing network onto a public bulletin board that's used for other
purposes -- still spam.  Etc etc.

I'm not arguing against other solutions, I'm arguing that spam is speech.  
If you let governments ban it, you're giving them the power to choose who 
gets to speak.

- Lucas



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me:
> >Spam is *the* tool for dissident news, since the fact that it's unsolicited 
> >means that recipients can't be blamed for being on a mailing list.
> 

Russell Turpin:
> That depends on how the list is collected, or
> even on what the senders say about how the list
> is collected. Better to just put it on a website,
> and that way it can be surfed anonymously. AND
> it doesn't clutter my inbox.

It doesn't work that way.  A website is opt-in, spam is no-opt.  If you
visit a samizdat site you can get in trouble.  If you get samizdat spam,
the worst that can be said is that you might have read it.  And as long as
the mailers send to individuals who clearly didn't opt-in, like party
officials, then other recipients can't get in trouble for requesting the
mail.  

Plus, it's much harder to block spam than web sites.

But this shouldn't come as a surprize.  Spam is speech.  It may be sleazy, 
but so what.

- Lucas


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XviD [1] is a project to make GPL divx codecs. Sigma Designs [1] is a
company  looking to put out hardware to playback, amongst other things,
divx files. Problem is Sigma is using XviDs gpled code in ways not very
gpl. The  results....XviD stops work on thier code and ask the users to
put preasure  on Sigma to honor the GPL.

Some notes from other places....

>>From Doom9 [3]
"XviD development has been stopped! The Sigma Designs REALMagic MPEG-4
Video Codec contains wide portions of code taken from the XviD project.
Soon after the initial release of the REALMagic codec the XviD developers
have contacted Sigma and informed them about the GPL violation (for those
who don't know, XviD is distributed under the GNU Public License - GPL -
which demands that if you modify a GPL program you have to release it
under the GPL, which in this case means that the source code of the Sigma
codec must be freely available). Sigma promised to replace the stolen
code, but the new version of the codec which was released this month only
disguises the stolen code, it was not actually removed. Sigma was once
again contacted and asked to remove the offending code but until today
nothing has happened. Therefore the XviD team is now turning to the public
in the hope to receive wide public support in their efforts to convince
Sigma Designs to respect the terms of the GPL. And until the matter has
been resolved XviD development will not continue.

That being said I hope all the forum members who saw their threads about
the Sigma Codecs being closed will understand our motivation now.
Internally we already knew what was going on but since the XviD authors
first wanted to try and resolve this internally we respected their wishes
and kept quiet about the matter at hand.

[Update] Sigma has issued a press release announcing the availability of
the source code of their MPEG-4 codec and it's already up for download.
However, not a word was lost about the XviD issue and the press release
makes one think that the Sigma codec was entirely developed by Sigma so we
might be hearing more about this.

[Update] I found a GPL notice in some of the source code files, but it
also looks like Sigma placed their own copyright lines there and XviD
doesn't get any credit in the source either. The GPL notice also collides
with Sigma's Software Licensing Agreement that you have to sign before
downloading codec or source. On on the same issue DivXNetworks said they'd
fully support XviD in this issue and apparently DXn's relationship with
Sigma didn't really work out either, as Sigma's Xcard is not as DivX
compatible as it was advertised.

[Update]First an update on the XviD situation. The release of the Sigma
source code does not mean it's all over, it's far from being over. The
license agreement which you have to agree to before you can download, and
install the codec is not compatible with the GPL. Furthermore, it can now
clearly be seen (download the source code and have a look for yourself)
that the Sigma codec is pretty much a copy of the XviD codec, but all the
copyright notices of the original developers have been removed and
replaced. This does not only violate the GPL but copyright laws - you
can't just take a program, change a few lines and change the copyright
statements, you only have copyright protection for the parts you wrote on
your own. And related to this the Sigma codec also contains code taken
from the OpenDivX project, the files were outfitted with 2 different
copyright notices which is quite funny."



[1] http://www.xvid.org/
[2] http://www.sigmadesigns.com
[3] http://www.doom9.org/

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0106.808c5e5ed0b801f667a34ead8221972e.eml000066400000000000000000000051371444326627400311230ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Aug 26 15:31:13 2002
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> Russell Turpin:
> > That depends on how the list is collected, or
> > even on what the senders say about how the list
> > is collected. 

Senders should vary the recipient list to include non-targets, like party
officials, and to exclude targets enough to give them plausible
deniability.

- Lucas


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0107.2447a90f32ab7642ff8309d41c242db2.eml000066400000000000000000000047511444326627400310300ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Aug 26 15:31:29 2002
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On Fri, 23 Aug 2002, Tom wrote:

--]
--]XviD [1] is a project to make GPL divx codecs. Sigma Designs [1] is a


Sorry, Sigma Designs should be the [2] not the [1]


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0108.e6e9cb097a3b5e37d94a7ff29bc4412a.eml000066400000000000000000000141201444326627400313410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Aug 26 15:31:28 2002
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Subject: The GOv gets tough on Net Users.....er Pirates..
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from http://www.arstechnica.com/

"There has mostly been talk thus far and little action, but the Department
of Justice says it may be ready to file criminal lawsuits against
individuals [1] who distribute or receive unauthorized copyrighted
material over the Internet. Deputy Assistant Attorney General John Malcolm believes
that "criminal prosecutions of copyright offenders are now necessary to
preserve the viability of America's content industries." Malcolm also
believes that people who trade copyrighted material think they are
participating in a legal activity. I certainly think people who download
copyrighted works understand that such distribution--barring provisions
such as fair use--is not authorized, and it is not surprising to see
businesses continue to look for means to discourage distribution of
copyrighted works.


"Some prosecutions that make that clear could be very helpful...I think
they would think twice if they thought there was a risk of criminal
prosecution," said [RIAA President Cary] Sherman, who was on the same
conference panel.

I'm not too confident that lawsuits would have the effect Sherman is
hoping for. Although infrequent, there have already been civil suits or
warnings issued to private individuals, and they have served as minor
deterrents to the file-sharing community at large. Criminal lawsuits
carrying with them the possibility of prison sentences may generate
further animosity against groups such as the RIAA and may be difficult to
initiate because of the "schooling" effect of millions of systems
participating in file sharing. Only servers would seem to stand out from
the crowd.

The article cites the No Electronic Theft (NET) Act [2], which defines
illegal  activity and maximum penalties for copyright infringement:


Criminal infringement: Any person who infringes a copyright willfully for
purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain, or by the
reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any
180-day period, of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more
copyrighted works, which have a total retail value of more than $1,000....
For purposes of this subsection, evidence of reproduction or distribution
of a copyrighted work, by itself, shall not be sufficient to establish
willful infringement.
...
The term "financial gain" includes receipt, or expectation of receipt, of
anything of value, including the receipt of other copyrighted works.


Therefore, receipt of a work of value would be defined as "financial gain"
even if no money is involved. The NET Act excerpt does not clarify how the
value of a work is determined; an album or movie could be worth only $15
to millions of dollars depending on whether the value is assessed from the
perspective of the consumer or copyright holder.

The statute of limitations:


507. Limitations on actions

(a) Criminal Proceedings.--No criminal proceeding shall be maintained
under the provisions of this title unless it is commenced within five
years after the cause of action arose.

(b) Civil Actions.--No civil action shall be maintained under the
provisions of this title unless it is commenced within three years after
the claim accrued.

The penalties are too extensive to list here, but they can be found in
Section 2319: Criminal infringement of a copyright. In general, first-time
criminal offenses will carry a maximum prison sentence of 1 year.

I'm still not sure where the DOJ would start in choosing people to
prosecute because of the aforementioned "schooling" effect, but my guess
would be that, just like speeding, primarily the most prominent
individuals who operate large servers or transfer the most data will be
targeted in order to discourage more recreational file sharers. Thanks to
MonaLisaOverdrive for pointing out this story.
"

[1] http://news.com.com/2100-1023-954591.html?tag=fd_top
[2] http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/17-18red.htm

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On Fri, 23 Aug 2002, Tom wrote:

> from http://www.arstechnica.com/
>
> "There has mostly been talk thus far and little action, but the
> Department of Justice says it may be ready to file criminal lawsuits
> against individuals [1] who distribute or receive unauthorized
> copyrighted material over the Internet.

And yet STILL noone is out there creating _public domain_ content. Is there
even one person out there can can even begin to talk without being a
complete hypocrite? And no the "open source" people cant talk either, the
GPL aint even close. I know I cant talk.

If the creator didnt say you could have it without paying, it's theft, so
simple, hell that's even in all the major holy books.

Fair use needs to be clarified a bit and then I hope they start locking
people up. How else do i ever have hope of finding a job working for someone
that makes things people are supposed to ... *drumroll* pay for.

- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0110.0bb9a36c3037be09867c0251e0fd6a3a.eml000066400000000000000000000047661444326627400311610ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  2 16:22:23 2002
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Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 18:07:29 -0700

Reza B'Far (eBuilt) wrote:
> problems.... Why do most computer scientists insist on solving the same
> problems over and over again when there are some many more important and
> interesting problems (high level) to be solved ?????

Amen!

Doing it in an (unecessarily) harder way does NOT make you more of a man
(or less of a kiddie).

- Joe



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0111.e10679164e671fd9211c0303af7ee9f0.eml000066400000000000000000000061141444326627400310270ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Mon Sep  2 13:12:45 2002
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X-Original-Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 01:10:33 +0000
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 01:10:33 +0000

If I have any RPMS in

http://www.dudex.net/rpms/

that could be useful to some one with a real apt repository or someone who wants to
maintain a package, be it known I am not selfish :)

I found stuff I thought would later get popular so I would not have to maintain the
RPMs for them after they hit the big time. Gnump3d is an exapmple of this.

So if anyone is psyched, go for it. If so, let me know so I can get the RPMs from
you in the future.

--
That's "angle" as in geometry.



_______________________________________________
RPM-List mailing list 
http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0112.b6c2ea75f9f7efcd3d0e4c43a751479c.eml000066400000000000000000000074531444326627400314320ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  2 16:22:12 2002
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From: "Adam L. Beberg" 
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Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 19:21:33 -0700 (PDT)

On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Reza B'Far (eBuilt) wrote:

> 2.  C and C++ forces the developer to solve problems such as memory
> management over and over again.  IMHO, Java is superior because the problem
> of programming in the future is not about 0's and 1's, making the compiler
> 2% faster, or making your code take 5% less memory... It's about design
> patterns, architecture, high level stuff...

Considering 90% of the fake job posting I see are for embedded systems or
device drivers - C still rules the world.

> 3.  Java is not just a programming language! It's also a platform... There
> is NOTHING like the standard API's in Java in C and C++.  Everyone defines
> their own API's, people end up solving the same problems ten different ways

The problem is the problem you're trying to solve is never the same. Java
will soon suffer API-rot (alot of poeple are already complaining about it),
it's just new. C was clean in the beginning too. API-rot is PURELY a
function of age.

> 4.  If you have a program of any type of high complexity written in C, you
> can't possibly think that you could port it to different platforms within
> the same magnitude of cost as Java....

I do this all the time, It's alot easier then you think if the original
programmer had a clue at all... Java does remove the clue requirement tho,
just adds a huge testing requirement, QA guys aren't as cheap ;)

> 5.  Makes no sense for a scientific or a business project to depend on a
> person... Java, IMHO, reduces the dependence of these entities on the
> individual developer as it is much easier to reverse engineer Java as it is
> to reverse engineer C (large applications).

No it's not, but you can hire teams of Javites for cheap at your local high
school. Java is about cutting costs and commoditizing programming - and it's
working!

- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0113.55a6bf6a4534d447af2060b174c0d70a.eml000066400000000000000000000047051444326627400310730ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  2 16:22:24 2002
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>
> 6.  Hardware is getting so fast that I'm not sure if the performance
> difference between Java and C/C++ are relevant any more.

When out-of-the-box parsing & transform of XML in java is 25x slower than
C++ on the same hardware then it does matter.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0114.72c7d2d85d9d99ce3ce268d09147bdea.eml000066400000000000000000000054151444326627400313610ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  2 16:22:33 2002
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Adam Beberg:
>Considering 90% of the fake job posting I see are for embedded systems or 
>device drivers - C still rules the world.

There is a lot of C++ in the embedded world. With
static object allocation and a few other programming
techniques, performance differences disappear, but
C++ gives a boost in development and maintainability.
The real issue is compiler availability. Almost every
embedded platform has C cross-compilers. Many have
C++ compilers. But there is still a range of
platforms that have the first but not the second. Or
at least, that was the story a few years ago.

_________________________________________________________________
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0115.41825f367f7f1efcc31e12376d82a994.eml000066400000000000000000000055271444326627400310610ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Sep  2 13:14:12 2002
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On Sun, Sep 01, 2002 at 04:14:17PM +0100, Paul Jakma mentioned:
> On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, kevin lyda wrote:
> 
> > gnu date is limited by time_t.  but i thought time_t expired in 2037?
> > this seems to show it expiring in 2038:
> 
> (2^31-1)/3600/24/365+1970
> 2038
> 
> course, on UltraSparc, x86-64, IA64, alpha, etc:
> 
> (2^63-1)/3600/24/365+1970
> 292471210647
> 
> so we should be safe enough.

 May I assume that x86-64 will be able to use a 64bit time_t too? 

Kate


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On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Russell Turpin wrote:

> Adam Beberg:
> >Considering 90% of the fake job posting I see are for embedded systems or
> >device drivers - C still rules the world.
>
> There is a lot of C++ in the embedded world. With static object
> allocation and a few other programming techniques, performance
> differences disappear, but C++ gives a boost in development and
> maintainability.

Agreed, not much difference there. With C it just doesnt seem as wrong to
be crawling around in registers and things. Quite frankly you cant fit
_that_ big of a project into a 32K ROM, so large project issues dont matter
as much in the embedded world.

And in the realtime space, or when you have data coming in at 2Gbit/sec
[fibrechannel], every cycle DOES count.

> The real issue is compiler availability. Almost every embedded platform
> has C cross-compilers. Many have C++ compilers. But there is still a
> range of platforms that have the first but not the second. Or at least,
> that was the story a few years ago.

Definately still very very true. C++ compilers are still a rarity.


- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0117.fbc79c02a2c13d6c9b36f9ba38a09170.eml000066400000000000000000000044411444326627400312470ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Sep  2 13:14:35 2002
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Dell Quinn
Account Executive
Fleishman-Hillard Saunders
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Reza B'Far wrote:
>This thread kind of surprises me... I started coding with C, then C++, and
>moved on to Java... And, I think that:

Looks like a case of "MY experience is comprehensive, YOUR'S is
anecdotal, THEY don't know what they're talking about".


>1.  The people who pay the wages don't give a flyin' heck what programming
>language you write things in... they just want it to work.

In my experience, they do care.  It has to work certainly, and in
particular it has to work with what they've already got, and it has to
work on client's systems.

My limited experience of Java started a few years ago when support on
Linux was so terrible that I ran away screaming and haven't come back yet.

Microsoft has announced that they plan to remove Java from Windows.
They took it out of XP already and it has to be installed with a
service pack.  Somehow, I can't imagine them removing the ability to
run C programs.


>2.  C and C++ forces the developer to solve problems such as memory
>management over and over again.

Can't say I spend any noticeable amount of time on memory management
issues, apart from the fact that I frequently need > 4 GB.


>It's about design patterns, architecture, high level stuff...

If your problem just requires application of a "design pattern" to solve,
then it's trivial anyway irrespective of language.


>I am amazed by the amount of time wasted by people talking about low
>level problems that have been solved 10 million times over and over
>and over again...

You appear to be gratuitously asserting that C programmers waste time
on irrelevant low-level problems and Java programmers don't.  Depends
entirely on the programmer, not the language.


>3.  Java is not just a programming language! It's also a platform...

Buzzword.


>a monolithic set of API's or a crap load of different API's slicing
>and dicing the same problems 50 different ways?

Unsupported assertion.


>4.  If you have a program of any type of high complexity written in C, you
>can't possibly think that you could port it to different platforms within
>the same magnitude of cost as Java....

Dunno.  E.g., I ported a wee 15000-line C program to Darwin on PowerPC
in a few minutes yesterday.  Sure if it was badly designed it would be
10 times the size and harder to port.  If it depended on unavailable
libraries it would be much harder.  Portable code is easy to port.
At least that is the case when then language you used is available on
the target platform: I also run on ARM systems with no proper Java.


>5.  Makes no sense for a scientific or a business project to depend on a
>person... Java, IMHO, reduces the dependence of these entities on the
>individual developer as it is much easier to reverse engineer Java as it is
>to reverse engineer C (large applications).

You can pay a good programmer to solve your problem now, or else get
some kids to hack spaghetti Fortran in any language and then pay for
maintenance headaches ad infinitum.

 
>6.  Hardware is getting so fast that I'm not sure if the performance
>difference between Java and C/C++ are relevant any more.

Whoah!!!  Performance matters to me every day.  (Right now I'm taking
time out to write email while waiting for a job to run).  Sure I could
wait 5 years until everyone's PC is fast enough to generate random EC's
in no time, when any twit will be able to program inefficient code
that is fast enough and the market will be overrun by competitors,
or I can do it now when very few people can.

 
>The end goal is the scientific or business problem to be solved.

Yes.


>And for those problems, languages such as Java, SmallTalk, and others
>allow you to think more high level than low level.  Thinking of bits
>and bytes takes too much gray matter away from the real important
>problems....

It's true!  I admit everything!  Mea maxima culpa!  Working in C makes
me spend all day thinking base, rank thoughts about hard-core bitography!
Not.

Actually I spend most of my time thinking in high-level mathematics.


>Why do most computer scientists insist on solving the same problems
>over and over again [...]

Dunno, and frankly I don't see the relevance to the issue at hand.


I'm sure Java is fine for some stuff, as is C or whatever.  Horses for
courses.


Bye,
  Rob.
     .-.                                                               .-.
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0119.98b90763eec7b4e91c06939eea2d2361.eml000066400000000000000000000061701444326627400311400ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Sep  2 13:14:40 2002
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I need to setup a VPN between a few sites. From what I've read, the the
choices come down (on the Linux side) to IPsec (using FreeSWAN) or CIPE.
It seems that FreeSWAN is 'better', being an implementation of IPsec which
is a standard. However, CIPE does the job as well for Linux clients and is
somewhat simpler to setup. 

The problem is that it's not a pure Linux situation - a couple of the sites
run OS-X. I'm pretty sure that I'll be able to find an implementation of
IPsec for OS-X, but I think CIPE is Linux only.

So, the question is for those of you have have implemented BOTH - is there a
significant difference in setup time and hassle between CIPE and FreeSWAN ?
If CIPE is going to be much easier than dealing with FreeSWAN (and whatever
on the OS-X sites) then I'll simply get a Linux box for each of the remote
sites - with the low price of hardware, it doesn't take much more complexity
in software to make buying hardware to use simpler software economic.



Niall

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0120.27898b8f966a9c687b1f93fcba5afd43.eml000066400000000000000000000072601444326627400313120ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Sep  2 13:12:59 2002
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From: "HAMILTON,DAVID (HP-Ireland,ex2)" 
To: "'ilug@linux.ie'" 
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 11:35:53 +0100
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Subject: [ILUG] The Age Old 'Which Mailer' Question
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I am trying to manage the email for a domain which I have hosted with
hosting365, and am trying to get the whole email send and receive thing
working nice and easily.
At the moment I have configured Fetchmail to poll the different pop3
mailboxes and deliver the mail accordingly, although it appears that I have
to have only one unix user being able to receive from each pop3 mailbox.
This could be a limitation of the fetchmailconf programme, I'm not sure, but
It would be much handier if I could just tell it to collect all of the mail
from the different mailboxes, and then deliver it locally according to the
"To:" header instead of the pop3 mailbox it came from.
The other issue I am having is sending outgoing mail.  I have been trying to
use sendmail, but am finding it to be an absolute pain in the posterior, and
when the relay server will only accept outgoing connections if I have
checked for incoming mail in the last twenty minutes, and I don't know how
to set sendmail to run a command before it sends out the mail.  Do any of
the outgoing mailer programs, exim or postfix or whatever, have a 'nice'
configuration interface, or do they all have nice friendly configuration
files like sendmail.

Any suggestions of alternative solutions would be much appreciated.  There
are only three or four email addresses in my domain, and setting it up for
scheduled collection and either scheduled or immediate delivery would do me
fine.

Thanks,

	David.

David Hamilton
Senior Technical Consultant
HP Ireland 

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0121.b475478456e52de66ef0b0fb501bbfd3.eml000066400000000000000000000057261444326627400312600ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Sep  2 13:13:12 2002
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Thread-Topic: What HOWTOs for SOHO system
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Hi All,
I'm trying to set up the following:

1. A Linux server running with a modem for internet connectivity and an
ethernet card for LAN connectivity
2. Other LAN pcs with ethernet cards, using the Linux server for
DNS/DHCP etc.

Basically, I want to route any non LAN traffic through the ppp0.

I've got some of the way, but like a similar post earlier about modem
problems, when I am connected to the internet with eht0 up, the routing
is all incorrect and noting goes out through ppp0 (eh0 must be the
default route or something).

Is there standard "out of the box" Linux tools that will carry out
portmapping on behalf of the LAN PCs ?  (I'm planning on non routable
addresses 192.168.x.x for the LAN, routed outwards via the ppp0
interface).

Can someone point me at the right HOWTOs or routing documentation I need
to follow ? 
Thanks,
Dermot.

-- 
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0122.4c48475d458bbca7a14270745e452dd7.eml000066400000000000000000000072741444326627400310450ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Sep  2 13:13:50 2002
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Reply-To: 
From: "Justin MacCarthy" 
To: "Dermot Daly" 
Cc: "Ilug@Linux.Ie" 
Subject: RE: [ILUG] What HOWTOs for SOHO system
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 11:46:57 +0100
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Hi Dermot, if have a look at one of the dists. like www.smoothwall.org, it
will save you lots of time and effort, and should do eveything you want.

Justin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ilug-admin@linux.ie [mailto:ilug-admin@linux.ie]On Behalf Of
> Dermot Daly
> Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 11:46 AM
> To: ilug@linux.ie
> Subject: [ILUG] What HOWTOs for SOHO system
>
>
> Hi All,
> I'm trying to set up the following:
>
> 1. A Linux server running with a modem for internet connectivity and an
> ethernet card for LAN connectivity
> 2. Other LAN pcs with ethernet cards, using the Linux server for
> DNS/DHCP etc.
>
> Basically, I want to route any non LAN traffic through the ppp0.
>
> I've got some of the way, but like a similar post earlier about modem
> problems, when I am connected to the internet with eht0 up, the routing
> is all incorrect and noting goes out through ppp0 (eh0 must be the
> default route or something).
>
> Is there standard "out of the box" Linux tools that will carry out
> portmapping on behalf of the LAN PCs ?  (I'm planning on non routable
> addresses 192.168.x.x for the LAN, routed outwards via the ppp0
> interface).
>
> Can someone point me at the right HOWTOs or routing documentation I need
> to follow ?
> Thanks,
> Dermot.
>
> --
> Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie
> http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription
> information.
> List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie
>
>
>


-- 
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http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information.
List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0123.32e1738c4171dd9d70b727fd7973a291.eml000066400000000000000000000051071444326627400307660ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Sep  2 13:13:28 2002
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To: "Ilug@Linux.Ie" 
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 11:48:22 +0100
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I think I'll ask this question again, as I sent on friday afternoon.  :-) 

Justin 

> Hi,
> 
> Can anyone point me to a howto on running mailing lists. Not looking for
> anything that is  package specific, but rather something that 
> gives general
> info on the various Email headers and dealing with returned 
> mails, errors in
> transport etc..
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Justin


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0124.2912ab5571d121e3b8c32c575b2526a9.eml000066400000000000000000000057741444326627400307510ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Sep  2 13:12:41 2002
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From: Philip Reynolds 
To: ilug@linux.ie
Subject: Re: [ILUG] Serial number in hosts file
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References: <3D735065.23921.771154@localhost>
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Ray Dermody's [DERMODYR@ITCARLOW.IE] 20 lines of wisdom included:
> Hi All,
> The serial number in our hosts files on our DNS server has gone 
> corrupt e.g. 2002082999999999901 should be 20002082901.
> Its okay to set this back to todays date but I understand that our 
> secondary and terninary DNS servers will only update from the master 
> hosts file if the master host serial number is greater than the current 
> serial number in the hosts file.
> Is there any way I can reset this on the secondary and terninary DNS 
> servers?

Once you have the serial changed on the master DNS server, remove
the appropiate zone(s) on your slaves, and refresh your DNS servers.

Bind has a special case, if you set the serial to '0' I think. DNS &
Bind should have something on that.

-- 
  Philip Reynolds        
   RFC Networks          tel: 01 8832063
www.rfc-networks.ie      fax: 01 8832041

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0125.1ada59664dfcb7a5a31e9820f9604fea.eml000066400000000000000000000065561444326627400313500ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Sep  2 13:12:53 2002
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Vincent Cunniffe wrote:
| Justin MacCarthy wrote:
|
|> I think I'll ask this question again, as I sent on friday afternoon.
  :-)
|
|
| Mailman ;-)
|
| Trust me, you do *not* want to running your own mailing lists
| on your own software.
|
| You'll wind up crying in a dark room looking for something
| high-voltage to stick your fingers into.

All things considered, I get that effect with Mailman, but the viable
alternatives are ezmlm, which is loonware and I'm avoiding on principle,
and majordomo, which seems to have stagnated. Oh, and there's apparently
something called SmartList which is a bitch to set up.

Waider.
- --
waider@waider.ie / Yes, it /is/ very personal of me
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Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 12:00:49 +0100
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Justin MacCarthy wrote:
> I think I'll ask this question again, as I sent on friday afternoon.  :-) 

Mailman ;-)

Trust me, you do *not* want to running your own mailing lists
on your own software.

You'll wind up crying in a dark room looking for something
high-voltage to stick your fingers into.

Regards,

Vin


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0127.2ac0e9f6527f224201604786789540b2.eml000066400000000000000000000070541444326627400305440ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Sep  2 13:13:46 2002
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To: Ray.Dermody@ITCARLOW.IE, ilug@linux.ie
From: Thomas Bridge 
Subject: Re: [ILUG] Serial number in hosts file
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Your actual serial number is 1519761310 - from a dig I've just done.

Try resetting the zone number to 2002082901 - some of your secondaries seem 
to have a serial number below that, so they clearly regard 1519761310 as 
being less than 2002082601.

That should enable them to pick up the new zonefile.

T.

At 11:49 02/09/2002 +0100, Ray Dermody wrote:
>Hi All,
>The serial number in our hosts files on our DNS server has gone
>corrupt e.g. 2002082999999999901 should be 20002082901.
>Its okay to set this back to todays date but I understand that our
>secondary and terninary DNS servers will only update from the master
>hosts file if the master host serial number is greater than the current
>serial number in the hosts file.
>Is there any way I can reset this on the secondary and terninary DNS
>servers?
>
>Ray Dermody
>Computing Services Technician
>I.T. Carlow
>0503 76271
>
>
>--
>Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie
>http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information.
>List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie

VIA NET.WORKS Ireland is a wholly owned Limited Irish Company.
Although connected to the VIA Global Network, VIA NET.WORKS Ireland
is separate from and is not owned by VIA NET.WORKS Inc. or any
member of the VIA NET.WORKS Inc. Group.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGPfreeware 7.0.3 for non-commercial use 

iQA/AwUBPXNFo76WYZbx1eG3EQLfNwCfakNapOkbg26j1jqQQEHgIWFd4s0AoP4J
GLBtgr1K8fzYlnnRNcfT3fSt
=Rurr
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0128.f2500674ec39065ae8a1f643c7100a2b.eml000066400000000000000000000040471444326627400310210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Sep  2 16:21:48 2002
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Hi All,

Damian Conway is in Belfast this week. He will be giving two talks:

o Perl 6 - Tuesday, 3rd September, 7pm, Jury's, Belfast
o Quantum::Superpositions - Thursday, 5th September, 7pm, Jury's, Belfast

He is also doing training courses...
    http://www.kasei.com/training/damian/

Wesley.

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0129.00f1783f1c15a77f1c5ec212f5bcf1d1.eml000066400000000000000000000102531444326627400312360ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Sep  2 16:21:52 2002
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Subject: [ILUG] Marketing SIG has a good start :)
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         |::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::|

                IT's Monday 520      02 September 2002

              |::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::|



STUDENT LIFE BEGINS WITH LINUX
by
John Sterne

The launch last month of a marketing special interest group by the
Irish Linux Users Group (ILUG)  -  open source and marketing, it
seems, might not be mutually exclusive concepts  -  has already
sparked an interesting initiative at University College Cork.  When
the new academic year begins at UCC, every incoming student will
be offered a copy of Red Hat Linux 7.3.

ILUG member Braun Brelin proposed this promotion, when he ran a
training class for staff at the UCC computer science department.
Brelin, who is the director of technology at OpenApp, says that the
Linux offer could be extended to any or all of the other Irish
universities.

The user group is tapping into an international Red Hat programme
that aims to introduce students at all levels to the open source
style of computing.  The Linux distributor runs an 'educational
channel' to reach this audience, bundling educational software
with its operating environment and offering networked support
services to eligible applicants.  This scheme was originally designed
to suit the educational structures in the US, but is now available to
schools and universities throughout the world.

Red Hat Linux 7.3 incorporates ease of use and maintenance
features and is intended to counter objections that Linux is hard to
master on personal systems.

The Linux-for-all project at UCC could also raise the profile of Red
Hat Ireland.  Based in Cork, this operation has run shared financial
services for other Red Hat offices in Europe since 2000.  Until now
its involvement with users in Ireland has been fairly limited,
although it does sometimes refer them to other Red Hat offices in
Europe that offer consulting or technical support services.

David Owens, Red Hat's director of global logistics and production,
sees the formation of the ILUG marketing group as a reason to take
a more proactive approach.  In the last three months, he notes, his
office in Cork has received more and more calls from Irish
companies that are interested in adopting Linux and has introduced
some to Red Hat pre-sales consultants.


-------------
Many thanks are due to Braun and David for working together on this one.

Regards
L.

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0130.6007e5b54c03026fd924cf2d6b0b4008.eml000066400000000000000000000061141444326627400310050ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Sep  2 16:22:04 2002
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From: "HAMILTON,DAVID (HP-Ireland,ex2)" 
To: "'ilug@linux.ie'" 
Subject: RE: [ILUG] Redhat 8.0
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 15:46:58 +0100
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I just saw the ISOs on an internal server here and was tempted....

	D.

-----Original Message-----
From: John P. Looney [mailto:valen@tuatha.org] 
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 3:45 PM
To: HAMILTON,DAVID (HP-Ireland,ex2)
Cc: 'ilug@linux.ie'
Subject: Re: [ILUG] Redhat 8.0


On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 03:22:54PM +0100, HAMILTON,DAVID (HP-Ireland,ex2)
mentioned:
> Does anyone know when Redhat 8.0 is going to be released?
> I have seen some ISO images of it around and I am trying to work out 
> if it's near release.

 Null, the third beta was out last week.

 It'll be an interesting release. Gnome 2.0, and GCC 3.2 - both very new,
large projects.

 I'd not be putting it on any production machines for a while...

 Though many say "RedHat X.0 releases are rubbish" - it's worth baring in
mind that they jump a release when the underlying archtechture changes, not
just the installer, so they are .0 for a reason.

Kate

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0131.b715566061ab90d0f8745ce0ac010832.eml000066400000000000000000000053201444326627400307250ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Sep  2 16:22:06 2002
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Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 15:58:51 +0100
To: irish linux users group 
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From: kevin lyda 
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	ilug@linux.ie
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Subject: [ILUG] freeserve in the uk?
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ok, so if i was in the uk for a wekk, how might i configure my laptop to
dial in to a freebie isp?  redhat's internet connection wizard actually
has settings for uk isp's, but freeserve is the only one i recognize
and it doen't seem to work.

has anyone here done this?

kevin

-- 
kevin@suberic.net     that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to
fork()'ed on 37058400    the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier
meatspace place: home       than a sober one. the happiness of credulity is a
http://ie.suberic.net/~kevin   cheap & dangerous quality -- g.b. shaw

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0132.bcd23223120c0be6b991ae0349cd127c.eml000066400000000000000000000120431444326627400311360ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Mon Sep  2 23:40:49 2002
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From: Brent Welch 
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Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 10:18:39 -0700

If you haven't already, you should enable the debug log under
Hacking Support preferences and look for clues there.

>>>Reg Clemens said:
 > > Hi,
 > > 
 > > On Sun, 01 Sep 2002 00:05:03 MDT Reg Clemens wrote: 
 > >   
 > > [...]
 > > > in messages with GnuPG signatures.  But punching the line ALWAYS
 > > > gives
 > > > 
 > > >         Signature made Thu Aug 29 00:27:17 2002 MDT using DSA key ID BDD
     F997A
 > > >         Can't check signature: public key not found
 > > > 
 > > > So, something else is missing.
 > > 
 > > Yes, the public key of the signature you want to check :-).
 > > 
 > > Are you really sure that you have the public key of the message's
 > > signature? If not, try downloading it or try to check a signature from
 > > which you know you have the public key.
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > 
 > Ah, sorry for not making that clearer.
 > But no.
 > Previously (v1.0.6 of GnuPG) there would be a slight pause at this point whi
     le
 > it went out to get the public key from a keyserver.
 > Now, whether I have the key or NOT, I get the failure message.
 > 
 > Its as if it cant find gpg to execute it (but I fixed that path), so there
 > must be something else that I am missing...
 > 
 > 
 > -- 
 >                                         Reg.Clemens
 >                                         reg@dwf.com
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > _______________________________________________
 > Exmh-users mailing list
 > Exmh-users@redhat.com
 > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/exmh-users

--
Brent Welch
Software Architect, Panasas Inc
Pioneering the World's Most Scalable and Agile Storage Network
www.panasas.com
welch@panasas.com



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0133.fe269b4e9538d5cb9907625c4b63dc2f.eml000066400000000000000000000052321444326627400312170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: craig@deersoft.com  Mon Sep  2 23:00:06 2002
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Vernon,

I'm changing the instructions in the SpamAssassin INSTALL file 
right now to:

tar xfvz dcc-dccproc.tar.Z
cd dcc-dccproc-X.X.X
./configure && make && make install
cdcc 'info'


Let me know ASAP if that's innapropriate, since we're shipping 
2.40 today!

C

On Monday, September 2, 2002, at 10:02  AM, Vernon Schryver wrote:

>> Here are the instructions in the spamassassin README:
>>
>>     # tar xfvz dcc-dccproc.tar.Z
>>     # cd dcc-dccproc-X.X.X
>>     # ./configure && make && make install
>>     # cdcc 'new map'
>>     # cdcc 'add dcc.rhyolite.com'
>>     # cdcc 'info'
>
> That's ok, except that the 'new map' and "add dcc.rhyolite.com'
> are respectively unnecessary and wrong.  The map file that comes
> with the source points to localhost and dcc.dcc-servers.net.  Those
> two shipped entries usually do the right thing if there is a local
> server.  If there is no local server or if the local server fails,
> requests are instantly sent to one of the public server names listed
> in the main DCC web page at
> http://www.rhyolite.com/anti-spam/dcc/ and http://www.dcc-
> servers.net/dcc/
> dcc.rhyolite.com has not been listed for months.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0134.56b4bed3bd3a696ab5b271a6e37fa005.eml000066400000000000000000000055061444326627400313230ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Sep  2 23:01:03 2002
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From: Ronan Waide 
To: "Kiall Mac Innes" 
Cc: 
Subject: RE: [ILUG] VPN implementation
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20020902100017.GB2041@bagend.makalumedia.com>
    
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On September 2, kialllists@redpie.com said:
> OS-X is linux
> 

Er, no it's not. It's kinda BSD-related, but it's definitely not
Linux.

Waider.
-- 
waider@waider.ie / Yes, it /is/ very personal of me.

"Since I am project leader, I must not be permitted to go insane."
                                                                - Theo de Radt

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0135.73f72161ad5758f0645151e87f5ff4b2.eml000066400000000000000000000071401444326627400307720ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Oct  7 12:06:28 2002
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Subject: RE: [ILUG] Drop in replacement for Ingres Database?
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> From: Paul Linehan [mailto:plinehan@yahoo.com] 
>
> There are two open alternatives that I can think of
> that don't appear to have been mentioned 
> elsewhere in this thread.
> 
> 
> One is Firebird (this is my personal favourite).
> It is http://FirebirdSQL.org and you can
> purchase support contracts here
> www.ibphoenix.com.

Indeedy - I had never even heard of firebird until we started a new job
last week with a client who uses it.  So we popped it onto a box
downstairs and wow - it is fast.  Comes with some lovely client tools
also.  Supports all the db goodies, transactions, stored procedures,
triggers.

> It's really amazing to think how much they've got
> out of a db that is only 4 MB in size - that's 10
> times smaller than the Oracle *_client_*.
> 
> 
> Having said all of the above, Oracle is really
> a super product, but ya pays ya money...
> 
IBM's db2 is another cheaper alternative to Oracle.  Free single
developer license downloadable from their website.

Fergal.
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X-Original-Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 10:24:40 +0200
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 10:24:40 +0200

Here's a weird and wacky problem:

I'm currently out of the country with my trusty Evo N600c laptop. When I 
tried to use the serial port to talk to my mobile phone, Linux behaved 
pretty much as if the port was fried. Bizarre, I thought, because I'd 
used it successfully while in the office. The only difference was that I 
was trying the thing in the hotel. I entertained brief notions of having 
somehow fried the serial drivers, then rebooted the laptop to Windows 
and tried again. Worked perfectly. Back to Linux. Still not talking. 
Considered that it might be flaky power, so I ran the laptop on battery. 
Nope. Tried moving the laptop to a differnet part of the room where 
there might be less bogon flux. Still not working. Eventually I gave up 
and used the IrDA port instead - which is usually the serial connection 
of doom, grief, and teeth-grinding.

This morning, in the office, the damn thing is working without a hitch.

Anyone like to suggest what mystery technology is in use in the hotel 
that prevents serial ports from working under Linux?

Cheers,
Waider.
-- 
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0137.015cd0ece1324c5514e742e224a77213.eml000066400000000000000000000070261444326627400307330ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Oct  7 12:06:33 2002
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X-Original-Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 09:30:01 +0100
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 09:30:01 +0100

On Sat, Oct 05, 2002 at 06:06:14PM +0100, Padraig Brady mentioned:
> OK I'm upgrading vorbis on my machine and I'm getting
> the following:
> 
> # rpm -U libvorbis-* vorbis-tools-1.0-1.i386.rpm
> error: failed dependencies:
> 	libvorbisfile.so.0   is needed by SDL_mixer-1.2.0-4
> 	libvorbisfile.so.0   is needed by xmms-1.2.5-7
> 	libvorbisfile.so.0   is needed by tuxracer-0.61-5
> 
> This is because the new libvorbis.rpm only has libvorbisfile.so.3
> So is this a problem in the other packages depending on
> a specific version (libvorbisfile.so.0) rather than on the
> generic libvorbis.so ?

 This is a pain. 

 The only way you can resolve this, to my knowledge is to download the
original libvorbis rpm and the new one. Remove the old one, then do:

 rpm -Uvh libvorbis-*

 RPM then assumes that you want both versions installed at the same time,
and does so. Why you can't do this after you have one library already
installed is beyond me.

Kate

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0138.5bc0323b8aa075bd1e99610b50aa1150.eml000066400000000000000000000054211444326627400310560ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Oct  7 12:06:36 2002
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X-Original-Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 10:34:22 +0200
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 10:34:22 +0200

John P. Looney wrote:
>  The only way you can resolve this, to my knowledge is to download the
> original libvorbis rpm and the new one. Remove the old one, then do:
> 
>  rpm -Uvh libvorbis-*
> 
>  RPM then assumes that you want both versions installed at the same time,
> and does so. Why you can't do this after you have one library already
> installed is beyond me.

Does using the --oldpackage flag help your pain, or is your pain caused 
by "Obsoletes" flags?

Cheers,
Waider.
-- 
waider@waider.ie / Yes, it /is/ very personal of me

-- 
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0139.4a3f2cb7efe7318e1ed9b698d1d4a1db.eml000066400000000000000000000100271444326627400315030ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Oct  7 12:06:36 2002
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Subject: Re: [ILUG] Interesting article on free software licences
From: "Ciaran Johnston" 
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David Neary said:
>
> For the francophones among you, this article is a summary of the
> reasons why most free software licences (and the GPL in
> particular) are not valid in France.
>
> http://www.linuxfrench.net/article.php3?id_article=1043
>
> Google translation (hard to read most of the time, but good
> enough to pick up the gist)
>
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?U26B52602
>
> In brief, in an international contract, when mentioning copyright,  you
> must mention under which jurisdiction's laws the copyright
> is applied. French law requires the licence to be available in
> French (the GPL isn't). And French law requires that for a
> contract to be valid, it must not breach existing law. Also under
> French law, the copyright holder automatically retains the right
> to change the licence, which means that French law is in conflict
> with the GPL, which requires authorisation from all authors
> before a licence change is allowed.
>
> Also there's some stuff about French consumer law forbidding sale
> without guarantee of anything, so software delivered as-is
> breaches consumer law in France. But I didn't really follow that.

My French is a bit iffy these days, but if this is true, does it not also
nullify Microsoft, Adobe and WinZip licences amongst most others? These all
claim no liability, no guarantees (M$ say delivered "with all faults", so
at least they are honest).

/Ciaran.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0140.009d880f185eca560c8496da54b447ae.eml000066400000000000000000000057571444326627400311340ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Oct  7 12:06:37 2002
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Subject: [ILUG] Retrieving read mail from webmail.eircom.net via POP ?
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X-Original-Date: 07 Oct 2002 10:10:00 +0100
Date: 07 Oct 2002 10:10:00 +0100

Is there a way to get my read email downloaded off webmail.eircom.net.

I've been reading the emails using the web based interface. But I've
reached my quota limit. There doesn't seem to be any way to get the
emails off the server. I can connect to the account using POP, but that
only retrieves unread emails. There's also no way to mark emails as
unread from the html interface.

Is there a way I can use fetchmail perhaps to get it to pull down all
the emails and remove them off the server.

It's been years since I've used fetchmail, I don't recall be able to do
this.

Any other suggestions welcome. There's a few hundred email so I don't
fancy going through each one forwarding it to another account.

Glen




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0141.911fa855ce043ee41b450e6a1b0096d0.eml000066400000000000000000000105651444326627400310750ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Oct  7 12:06:41 2002
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Subject: Re: [ILUG] Retrieving read mail from webmail.eircom.net via POP ?
From: Glen Gray 
To: Stephane Dudzinski 
Cc: ilug@linux.ie
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Seems fetchmail has a -a switch to get it all.

Just need to install fetchmail now :)

Glen

On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 10:17, Stephane Dudzinski wrote:
> Funny enough, that also happened to a Friend of mine who uses both the
> web interface and a pop client. Last time i tried to send a picture
> which was around 100k, it got denied saying that quota was exceeded.
> When he looked at his account on the web, it mentionned 5 MB free, so i
> have no idea what they're playing at ...
> 
> Doesn't really help but just wanted to confirm the problem. 
> 
> Steph
> 
> On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 10:10, Glen Gray wrote:
> > Is there a way to get my read email downloaded off webmail.eircom.net.
> > 
> > I've been reading the emails using the web based interface. But I've
> > reached my quota limit. There doesn't seem to be any way to get the
> > emails off the server. I can connect to the account using POP, but that
> > only retrieves unread emails. There's also no way to mark emails as
> > unread from the html interface.
> > 
> > Is there a way I can use fetchmail perhaps to get it to pull down all
> > the emails and remove them off the server.
> > 
> > It's been years since I've used fetchmail, I don't recall be able to do
> > this.
> > 
> > Any other suggestions welcome. There's a few hundred email so I don't
> > fancy going through each one forwarding it to another account.
> > 
> > Glen
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie
> > http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information.
> > List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie
> -- 
> ______________________________________________
> Stephane Dudzinski       Systems Administrator
> NewWorldIQ            	     t: +353 1 4334357
> www.newworldiq.com           f: +353 1 4334301
> 
> -- 
> Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie
> http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information.
> List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0142.bcc958dabbad574174becaa16334a7e6.eml000066400000000000000000000057401444326627400314660ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Oct  7 12:07:12 2002
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Subject: Re: [ILUG] adsl router modem combo
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It seems to only support PPPoA and not PPPoE. You need one that supports
PPPoE, if you want torun it in routed IP mode. If you are using it as a
bridge, it'll probably work, but you'd be left leaving the computer on,
which would defeat the purpose of getting a router.

The best router I've come accross is the Zyxel 643. Eircom supply this,
but if you have alook online you can probably find it cheaper to buy
online from America or the UK.

Hope this is useful,
Joe


-- 
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0143.20b19246597ddb47db7da83f7a140e73.eml000066400000000000000000000070311444326627400311150ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Oct  7 12:07:10 2002
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From: Niall O Broin 
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Subject: Re: [ILUG] Interesting article on free software licences
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On Mon, Oct 07, 2002 at 09:43:11AM +0100, Ciaran Johnston wrote:

> > Also there's some stuff about French consumer law forbidding sale
> > without guarantee of anything, so software delivered as-is
> > breaches consumer law in France. But I didn't really follow that.
> 
> My French is a bit iffy these days, but if this is true, does it not also
> nullify Microsoft, Adobe and WinZip licences amongst most others? These all
> claim no liability, no guarantees (M$ say delivered "with all faults", so
> at least they are honest).

Apparently the angle on this (i.e. selling without guarantee) is that
software is not a product which is sold but a service which is licensed - at
least that's what I remember reading about how M$ gets away with providing
no guarantee in the U.S. If you're feeling rather deep pocketed, you could
always try suing M$ to get a court's view on the matter.




Niall
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Subject: [Same thread ish] [ILUG] adsl router modem combo
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X-Original-Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:41:45 +0100
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:41:45 +0100

having great fun trying to find a dumb ADSL modem with Ethernet
presentation, everybody wants to sell routers but I intend on doing pppoe
from another device, something with more than one Ethernet port would be
nice.
anybody got any recommendations ?

Uly

----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Cc: 
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: [ILUG] adsl router modem combo


> It seems to only support PPPoA and not PPPoE. You need one that supports
> PPPoE, if you want torun it in routed IP mode. If you are using it as a
> bridge, it'll probably work, but you'd be left leaving the computer on,
> which would defeat the purpose of getting a router.
>
> The best router I've come accross is the Zyxel 643. Eircom supply this,
> but if you have alook online you can probably find it cheaper to buy
> online from America or the UK.
>
> Hope this is useful,
> Joe
>
>
> --
> Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie
> http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription
information.
> List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie
>

-- 
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http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information.
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0145.7400cf6ab4cfe5ffeaab582c9730c656.eml000066400000000000000000000075531444326627400314270ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Mon Oct  7 12:07:14 2002
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To: Declan de Lacy Murphy 
Cc: ilug@linux.ie
Subject: Re: [ILUG] adsl router modem combo
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	Declan de Lacy Murphy , ilug@linux.ie
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Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 11:32:54 +0100

On Sun, Oct 06, 2002 at 11:10:05PM +0100, Declan de Lacy Murphy wrote:
> I am planning to get i-stream solo and share it across a small network
> (wireless), but I don't want to have to pay eircom for a router and having a
> noisy pc running constantly isn't really an option because at home
> inevitably someone will unplug it.
> 
> I have been looking at a number of products and although I read the thread
> about eircom needing pppoe last august I am still not sure if the one that I
> am interested in will do the job. It is a hawking technology ar 710
>  http://www.hawkingtech.com/products/ar710.htm ) and if it does the job it
> will actually be cheaper than the modem eircom is selling.
> 
> I would really appreciate if someone could look at the spec on the hawking
> web page and give me an opinion.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Declan
> 

I got the DSL-W 906E from http://www.dsl-warehouse.co.uk.

Though it's not at all the best one around I have to say it does the job
and a bit. Some of the features can be a pain to get working (ie. pptp in
pppoe mode - can't figure it out). The documentation is not the best, but
the guys from http://www.dsl-warehouse.co.uk will help you ouit. They
also have a message board.

The command line interface is quite powerful, but absolutely not
userfriendly.

All in all it's a cheap desent performer, that I am happy enough with.
Got this one including a microfilter (not needed) for 140euro including
shipping. Better than any deal from Eircom.

-Tor
-- 
Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie
http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information.
List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0146.2d301a1e07672538d669f5e571180d32.eml000066400000000000000000000064341444326627400306220ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: sentto-2242572-55912-1033991494-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com  Mon Oct  7 13:14:04 2002
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Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 12:51:33 +0100
Subject: [zzzzteana] Re: Megalithomania UnPissup
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--- In forteana@y..., "Webmaster"  wrote:
>Right...Talking Stick!..but what the hell is "marathon/snickers, jif/cif 
>and
>calls itself 'Secret Chiefs' "
>
>DRS
>

Rebranding: taking something and changing nothing about it except its name. 
In the UK Marathon bars became Snickers bar, Jif cleaning fluid became Cif 
and Talking Stick became Secret Chiefs, y'know?

Scott
"at once a fun fair, a petrified forest, and the great temple of Amun at 
Karnak, itself drunk, and reeling in an eccentric earthquake"


_________________________________________________________________
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Wood" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 6:51 AM
Subject: [zzzzteana] Re: Megalithomania UnPissup


> --- In forteana@y..., "Webmaster"  wrote:
> >Right...Talking Stick!..but what the hell is "marathon/snickers, jif/cif
> >and
> >calls itself 'Secret Chiefs' "
> >
> >DRS
> >
>
> Rebranding: taking something and changing nothing about it except its
name.
> In the UK Marathon bars became Snickers bar, Jif cleaning fluid became Cif
> and Talking Stick became Secret Chiefs, y'know?
>
> Scott
> "at once a fun fair, a petrified forest, and the great temple of Amun at
> Karnak, itself drunk, and reeling in an eccentric earthquake"
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> forteana-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>



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Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 07:00:39 -0500
Subject: [zzzzteana] SETI at Home
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So, I've been letting the little .exe of SETI@Home run endlessly on my PC .  Last total for this upgrade approx.
420 hours of scanning time.  And still no ET.  I'm so disappointed.
Does anyone else on the list let Berkeley use their computer for research in this manner?
http://setiathome.berkeley.edu


DRS



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0149.d59bb0d23ca8ad3a87e549d3e6172f26.eml000066400000000000000000000100171444326627400312620ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: sentto-2242572-55916-1033992125-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com  Mon Oct  7 13:15:12 2002
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Subject: [zzzzteana] A New Theory on Mapping the New World
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46455-2002Oct5.html

A New Theory on Mapping the New World

By Guy Gugliotta
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, October 7, 2002; Page A07

In 1507, a group of scholars working in France produced an extraordinary map
of the world, the first to put the still-recent discoveries of Columbus and
others into a new continent separate from Asia, and to call that continent
"America." With the Waldseemuller map, the New World was born.
But there was something else. What would later come to be called South
America and Central America were surprisingly well-shaped, not only on the
east coast, where explorers had already sailed, but also on the west coast
-- which no European was known to have seen.
The ice cream cone bulge that sticks out into the Pacific at the junction of
modern-day Chile and Peru is readily visible and in almost exactly the right
geographical spot -- not only in the main map, but also in an inset printed
along its top.
The shape of South America in the main map appears distorted because of the
curvature of the Earth.
It is an improbable coincidence, if it was a coincidence, for the map -- 12
large printed pages to be arrayed in one 36-square-foot wall display -- was
published six years before Vasco Balboa's 1513 trip across the Isthmus of
Panama and 12 years before Ferdinand Magellan's 1519-22 trip around the
world.
Did someone get there earlier?
...

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Understand, not enough caffeine absorbed yet this morning. (7:00AM here for
me)

DRS

> --- In forteana@y..., "Webmaster"  wrote:
> >Right...Talking Stick!..but what the hell is "marathon/snickers, jif/cif
> >and
> >calls itself 'Secret Chiefs' "
> >
> >DRS
> >
>
> Rebranding: taking something and changing nothing about it except its
name.
> In the UK Marathon bars became Snickers bar, Jif cleaning fluid became Cif
> and Talking Stick became Secret Chiefs, y'know?
>
> Scott
> "at once a fun fair, a petrified forest, and the great temple of Amun at
> Karnak, itself drunk, and reeling in an eccentric earthquake"
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> forteana-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>



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Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 13:22:03 +0100
Subject: [zzzzteana] Man admits Soham kidnapping hoax calls
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Ananova:� 
Man admits Soham kidnapping hoax calls

A man has admitted making hoax calls to police investigating the
disappearance of Soham schoolgirls Jessica Chapman and Holly Wells.
Wrexham Magistrates Court, in North Wales, heard jobless Howard Youde made
three calls to police in Cambridgeshire claiming to have abducted the
youngsters.
He was arrested in Wrexham in the early hours of August 16 when officers
traced the call to a phone box on the town's Brook Street.
The 45-year-old, of Queensway, Hope, near Wrexham, has pleaded guilty to one
count of wasting police time on August 15 this year.
The court was told Youde claimed to have no recollection of making the calls
having been drinking all day.
Defence lawyer Mark Arden says the offence was neither premeditated nor
calculated but added that this was no excuse.
He said: "What he's done is horrific. It's unforgivable. The distress he's
caused the families is unacceptable."
Youde has been released on unconditional bail until November 7 when he will
be sentenced.
The hearing has been adjourned for pre-sentence reports although the
defendant has been warned custody is an option.
Story filed: 12:36 Monday 7th October 2002

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> That always amazes me about 'regular' dreams - how often they come true.
>
In 1993 or so, when I was a student in Edinburgh, I had a bad dream about
being chased around a house by a scary murderous tramp who was carrying a
bag full of half-penny coins (which had long since ceased to be legal
tender). The next morning as I left the flat, I found a half-penny on the
doormat right outside our door. Fair gave me the willies, that did.

TimC

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> Anyone know what Quaoar means or stands for? Can't find it in the
> dictionary. Scrabble players should be happy!
>
http://www.angelfire.com/journal/cathbodua/Gods/Qgods.html

Quaoar Their only god who 'came down from heaven; and, after reducing chaos
to order, out the world on the back of seven giants. He then created the
lower animals,' and then mankind. Los Angeles County Indians, California 

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Subject: Re: [zzzzteana] The Cafe Forteana is back online!!!
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>  > Ok, but you'll still let me leave that black and white one there too,
>>  right? I like that one!!!
>>  --
>>
>>
>>  Fel
>
>Okay.  I see you like that 1940's starlet look then....
>
>I should think about a bio bit, but maybe I'll just remain enigmatic and
>maintain my mystique*
>
>Helen of Troy
>*by Lentheric :-)
>
Or you could let me write one for you? Mind you ...... I know an 
awful lot about you! ;-))

Yes, I like that starlet look, but I think you should come out from 
behind that bike too and let us see what you are wearing.  looks 
pretty innerestin'
-- 


Fel
NEW!! Cafe Forteana is back: http://www.frogstone.net/Cafe/CafeForteana.html
http://www.frogstone.net
Weird Page: http://my.athenet.net/~felinda/WeirdPage.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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> Or you could let me write one for you? Mind you ...... I know an
> awful lot about you! ;-))

Oh, that could be interesting!

>
> Yes, I like that starlet look, but I think you should come out from
> behind that bike too and let us see what you are wearing.  looks
> pretty innerestin'

That bike is all that's between me and my modesty.  The other photos are not
for public consumption. :-)

> Fel

Helen of Troy


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X-Original-Date: 08 Oct 2002 00:57:24 +0300
Date: 08 Oct 2002 00:57:24 +0300

On Tue, 2002-10-08 at 00:05, Matthias Saou wrote:

> It's 100% untested, although the build should be ok. The new menu was
> added, but some configuration files may be better with new or different
> defaults.
> 
> Feedback is very welcome!

Looks good to me, just installed it, and ran a local scan, everything
worked smoothly.  Thanks a bunch!

-- 
\/ille Skytt�
ville.skytta at iki.fi


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Just the headlines and URLs so I don't bore y'all too much....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,805900,00.html

As a US Republican, I reject George Bush's illegal and
unconstitutional plan to attack Iraq - Scott Ritter


http://jang.com.pk/thenews/oct2002-daily/07-10-2002/world/w9.htm

Saudi Arabia may start fingerprinting Americans




Blair warned war to oust Saddam 'illegal'



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0158.05f321b3cb42b6b62bc8a250a7bad59f.eml000066400000000000000000000073051444326627400313170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Tue Oct  8 00:10:07 2002
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Using Razor2 via SpamAssasin.

System is Solaris 2.7, with qmail. Spamassassin run via user's procmail.
All users who use SA have run razor-register.

Razor2 is failing, and I can't find anything in the limited docs or on 
google on it,
and I'm hoping someone can help.

The error (which doesn't prevent SA from working) is:

Oct  2 06:38:22 sancho2 qmail: 1033565902.186041 delivery 4588: success: 
razor2_check_skipped:_Bad_file_number_Can't_locate_object_m
ethod_"new"_via_package_"Razor2::Client::Agent"_(perhaps_you_forgot_to_load_"Razor2::Client::Agent"?)_at_/usr/local/lib/perl5/site_p
erl/5.6.1/Mail/SpamAssassin/Dns.pm_line_374./did_0+0+1/

Looking at Dns.pm doesn't really help me, and Razor2::Client::Agent appears 
to be in the right place,
in /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.1/Razor2/Client.

Ideas?

...Chris




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0159.72f1a01f64bfa9e06b21c4e778e14cd2.eml000066400000000000000000000065501444326627400312570ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: sentto-2242572-55982-1034029763-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com  Tue Oct  8 00:10:56 2002
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Even better:

http://www.ridiculopathy.com/news_detail.php?id=668

White House: President's "War Boner" Must Be Satisfied

..."The President can't seem to hide his excitement about a possible
military conflict with Iraq. At a recent function honoring America's
war widows, Bush sported a visible erection when his speech turned to
the subject of the Middle East.

'Believe me when I say this. With or without the help of other
nations, with or without UN approval, we will penetrate Iraq's
borders. With overwhelming force, we will pound Iraq over and over
again without ceasing. And, once its leaders concede defeat, we will
seed Iraq with American-style democracy.'

Aides say the podium was scrubbed down thoroughly after the event with
a special cleanser/biocide not used since the Clinton
administration.".....





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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0160.0040550972ece2c27ed01745f93b474b.eml000066400000000000000000000052751444326627400307530ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: sentto-2242572-55983-1034030545-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com  Tue Oct  8 00:10:59 2002
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Tom R:
> http://www.cliktrik.com/people/family/me/0419.jpg
> 
Which one's you?

TimC

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0161.5703ef6933a7f189ab48da12a925f5e4.eml000066400000000000000000000120241444326627400311230ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Oct  8 10:56:40 2002
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Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 21:39:39 -0400

what takes time and money: noting the amounts of each correction and basing
the refund delivery method on the amount.  yesh, it's silly to spend $.37 (+
labor and materials) for a $.02 refund, but maybe the only alternative right
now is to create dichotomies that require even more time and labor - or keep
the money (see john hall below).  your mailed refund is a function of bulk.

in jax we're on the verge of firing at&t cable for horrible customer service
and over-charging.  what will probably happen: if the amount of overage per
customer is significant (say $30 or more) the refund will go directly to the
customer.  If it's less, the combined total amount will go to the city as
lump sum settlement.

in your case, maybe all the customers could vote on line where they'd like
their lump sum to go.  of courese, they'd have to be notified by mail first.
:-)

-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of John
Hall
Sent: Monday, October 07, 2002 5:02 PM
To: Fork@xent.com
Subject: RE: The absurdities of life.


They are legally required to do that.  I got a similar check because an
insurance company didn't pay a claim quickly enough.  It might have been
$.02.

Although they spent lots more than $.33 to mail you the check, the
alternative seems to be to keep the money.  Do you really want companies
to have a financial incentive to over-bill you 'just a bit' so they
could keep it?  For a company with millions of customers, $.33/customer
starts adding up.






> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
> bitbitch@magnesium.net

> So I get a check from Pac Bell today (SBC as they're called now).
> Turns out, they went to the trouble of printing out, signing, sealing
> and stamping a check just to refund me for a whole $0.33.
>
> They easily spent more than this just getting the materials together.
> Why the hell do companies bother to do this crap?  I mean, isn't there
> a bottom line in terms of cost effectiveness?  I don't think I missed
> the .33, but I sure as hell would have appreciated lower rates in lieu
> of being returned pennies.
>
> I'm truly stuck on this though.  I don't know whether to frame the
> check, burn it, or cash it in.  Maybe I should find a way to return to
> sender, so they have to spend -more- money on giving me my .33 dues.
>
>
> Does .33 even buy anything anymore?  Funny bit of it, is I couldn't
> even make a phone call these days.
>
> *boggled*
> BB.
>
> --
> Best regards,
>  bitbitch                          mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net







golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0162.4eb119208c169c5da0dc13a875cdcb34.eml000066400000000000000000000034141444326627400312370ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: pudge@perl.org  Tue Oct  8 10:54:15 2002
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use Perl Daily Headline Mailer

This Week on perl5-porters (30 September / 6 October 2002)
    posted by rafael on Monday October 07, @07:12 (summaries)
    http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/10/07/1124226

RATS
    posted by KM on Monday October 07, @09:01 (news)
    http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/10/07/132252




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0163.1aff5d9dc36e51a0b43f1c31c4d5b28c.eml000066400000000000000000000064531444326627400314050ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: pudge@perl.org  Tue Oct  8 10:54:18 2002
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Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 02:00:35 +0000
From: pudge@perl.org
Subject: [use Perl] Stories for 2002-10-08
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use Perl Daily Newsletter

In this issue:
    * This Week on perl5-porters (30 September / 6 October 2002)
    * RATS

+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| This Week on perl5-porters (30 September / 6 October 2002)         |
|   posted by rafael on Monday October 07, @07:12 (summaries)        |
|   http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/10/07/1124226              |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

It was a busy week indeed, with long threads, interesting bugs, clever
fixes, miscellaneous optimizations, some new ideas, a few jokes,
mysterious failures, and, finally, a security hole. Read on.

This story continues at:
    http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/10/07/1124226

Discuss this story at:
    http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/10/07/1124226


+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
| RATS                                                               |
|   posted by KM on Monday October 07, @09:01 (news)                 |
|   http://use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=02/10/07/132252               |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+

Odud writes "RATS, the Rough Auditing Tool for Security, is a security
auditing utility for C, C++, Python, Perl and PHP code. RATS scans source
code, finding potentially dangerous function calls. The goal of this
project is not to definitively find bugs. The current goal is to provide
a reasonable starting point for performing manual security audits.
Produced by [0]Secure Software" Uses a database so you can alter what you
want it to look for. Not a replacement for using stricture or your head
but is a good place to start some security auditing on your Perl.

Discuss this story at:
    http://use.perl.org/comments.pl?sid=02/10/07/132252

Links:
    0. http://www.securesoftware.com/rats.php



Copyright 1997-2002 pudge.  All rights reserved.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0164.ae42a102de7318dc4876af403b6e5956.eml000066400000000000000000000070331444326627400311170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: sentto-2242572-55999-1034047414-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com  Tue Oct  8 10:57:58 2002
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Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:23:11 -0500
Subject: Re: [zzzzteana] Bigfoot and big feet on display at Peabody
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>Benoit claimed the prize for his size 14 feet. In the female division of the
>competition, three women tied for first place with size 10 feet.
>Winners took home a $100 gift certificate to either Footlocker or Barrie
>Ltd.

Well crap, mine are size 11.

>
>"If I'd have known the contest was happening, I would have gone," said
>Justin Simon '04, the proud owner of size 15 feet. "A lot of the guys have
>bigger feet than that. Dexter Upshaw ['06] wears a size 18."
>
>Simon said the $100 gift certificate would have almost paid for a new pair
>of shoes.

Almost. If you shop at Payless!!

But sure could have used the $100 anyway!
-- 


Fel
NEW!! Cafe Forteana is back: http://www.frogstone.net/Cafe/CafeForteana.html
http://www.frogstone.net
Weird Page: http://my.athenet.net/~felinda/WeirdPage.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:47:10 -0500
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>Helen & Mike wrote:
>
>>  Chat tends to be on irc.quakenet #forteana most nights. I think this was
>>  done mainly because of troll infestation.  Colin has control most nights on
>>  there, and he keeps an eye on people and kicks them if they come in under
>>  assumed names, or as soon as they show their true natures.  Just call him
>>  Billy Goat Gruff :-)
>
>How do you sign up?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Kelly

kelly, same thing as when you used to come to frogstone on Dalnet. 
#frogstone is still there, and also #forteana. If you want to go to 
quakenet, just change your server (in mIRC if that is what you use) 
to that.
-- 


Fel
NEW!! Cafe Forteana is back: http://www.frogstone.net/Cafe/CafeForteana.html
http://www.frogstone.net
Weird Page: http://my.athenet.net/~felinda/WeirdPage.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:55:05 -0500
Subject: Re: [zzzzteana] Good ISP for Mac?
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>I managed to get myself an iMac yesterday (just a G3 but a good'un) and was
>wondering if any of the Apple people on here could recommend a good ISP (for
>narrow band at the moment) for getting online under OS X.
>
>Stew

my local ISP works great with my iMac. I don't know what you guys 
have over there, but OS X ought to let you get online as well as 
anything else.

Crossing my fingers though....I did a upgrade to Jaguar, and ended up 
doing a scrape and install after that. 

Oh, and I am on 56k dialup
-- 


Fel
NEW!! Cafe Forteana is back: http://www.frogstone.net/Cafe/CafeForteana.html
http://www.frogstone.net
Weird Page: http://my.athenet.net/~felinda/WeirdPage.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0167.13f1e71a8070d4d34e65ec7a25d9e164.eml000066400000000000000000000066011444326627400311210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: sentto-2242572-56003-1034050291-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com  Tue Oct  8 10:58:44 2002
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Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:11:08 -0500
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>  >Tom R:
>>>  
>>>http://www.cliktrik.com/people/family/me/0419.jpg
>>>
>>Which one's you?
>
>I'm actually taking the photo -- both figures are in fact waxworks.
>
>This was in Mme Tussaud's in, of all places, Sydney Australia.
>
>       /t
>--

damn it Tom!! I had my kids believing you knew Albert Einstein!!

Well, until the smart one asked just how old you were now.
-- 


Fel
NEW!! Cafe Forteana is back: http://www.frogstone.net/Cafe/CafeForteana.html
http://www.frogstone.net
Weird Page: http://my.athenet.net/~felinda/WeirdPage.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0168.91cce4c84906ce507bd5e6362dd345c4.eml000066400000000000000000000074351444326627400312200ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: sentto-2242572-56004-1034050340-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com  Tue Oct  8 10:58:43 2002
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Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:11:58 -0500
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>That Goddess Chick wrote:
>>
>>  >Thanks Fel.  Got no scanner.  My photo is in that group of 100 obsessive
>>  >compulsive clipsters in FT, 1996 or 1997.
>>  >
>>  >Terry
>>
>>  Great, and right now all my pre '98s are in Washington state, in a
>>  cardboard box in a shed in the back of Sydde's garage. Probably mice
>>  nests by now. :-(  Put a scanner on your Christmas list right above
>>  world peace!
>>  --
>>
>>  Fel
>>  NEW!! Cafe Forteana is back: 
>>http://www.frogstone.net/Cafe/CafeForteana.html
>
>Maybe a kind soul with access to that issue and a scanner could scan it and
>forward to you.
>
>Terry
>

I would appreciate that very much as I won't be getting back to 
Washington until December.
-- 


Fel
NEW!! Cafe Forteana is back: http://www.frogstone.net/Cafe/CafeForteana.html
http://www.frogstone.net
Weird Page: http://my.athenet.net/~felinda/WeirdPage.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0169.b19a689237947db7b9e244277e075edc.eml000066400000000000000000000072201444326627400310720ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Tue Oct  8 10:55:22 2002
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X-Original-Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 09:30:10 +0200
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 09:30:10 +0200

Hi

I try to rebuild xine from src package and I get these errors:

.
.
.
.
.
Finding  Provides: /usr/lib/rpm/find-provides
Finding  Requires: /usr/lib/rpm/find-requires
PreReq: rpmlib(PayloadFilesHavePrefix) <= 4.0-1 
rpmlib(CompressedFileNames) <= 3.0.4-1
Requires(rpmlib): rpmlib(PayloadFilesHavePrefix) <= 4.0-1 
rpmlib(CompressedFileNames) <= 3.0.4-1
Requires: xine-libs = 0.9.13 /bin/sh
Obsoletes: xine-devel


RPM build errors:
    user dude does not exist - using root
    user dude does not exist - using root
    user dude does not exist - using root
    user dude does not exist - using root
    user dude does not exist - using root
    File not found: /var/tmp/xine-root/usr/bin/aaxine


thx,
Roi




_______________________________________________
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0170.154c82ae0e1ccc4c9290aa1fa4de7b43.eml000066400000000000000000000065271444326627400314010ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Tue Oct  8 10:55:23 2002
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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: xine src packge still gives errors
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X-Original-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:37:21 +0200
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:37:21 +0200

Once upon a time, Roi wrote :

> RPM build errors:
>     user dude does not exist - using root
>     user dude does not exist - using root
>     user dude does not exist - using root
>     user dude does not exist - using root
>     user dude does not exist - using root

This I would guess is normal, but don't you get it at the very beginning of
the build? Isn't this at the end just a reminder?

>     File not found: /var/tmp/xine-root/usr/bin/aaxine

Argh, I forgot to exclude aaxine from the %files when using "--without
aalib" :-(
The current "fr6.1" spec file fixes this...

Matthias

-- 
Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10acpi
Load : 0.02 0.03 0.00

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0171.284f310dea6316d8971a18ff66a1a8dc.eml000066400000000000000000000065711444326627400312060ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Tue Oct  8 10:55:25 2002
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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: xmms and .mp3 files.
Message-Id: <20021008094334.57b0c988.matthias@rpmforge.net>
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Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:43:34 +0200

Once upon a time, Roi wrote :

> oh xmms didn't work for me also
> i used mpg123 i tought its something from me

Nope, this is "normal" as Red Hat removed all mp3 support from 8.0 because
of patent and royalty issues :-(
On freshrpms.net, you can find the xmms mp3 plugin as I said, but also
libmad, lame (mp3 encoder), and soon mpg321 as I often used it myself.
Many other players can also play mp3 files, like alsaplayer, xine, mplayer.

> like mplayer not working also and gives black screen

This is not normal though...
Try "mplayer -vo help" then try usinf various output methods to see if some
do work or not.

Matthias

-- 
Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10acpi
Load : 0.00 0.05 0.01

_______________________________________________
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0172.464b84890a849676c036baccf0f2344e.eml000066400000000000000000000026141444326627400310470ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rssfeeds@example.com  Tue Oct  8 10:55:27 2002
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To: zzzz@example.com
From: diveintomark 
Subject: Teach a man to fish
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 08:00:04 -0000
Content-Type: text/plain; encoding=utf-8

URL: http://diveintomark.org/archives/2002/10/08.html#teach_a_man_to_fish
Date: 2002-10-08T00:22:08-05:00

_Kevin Hemenway_: Finding More Channels[1]. “In simple terms, there are 
thousands of web sites that are actively providing their news and headlines in 
a format AmphetaDesk can understand [RSS]. And while AmphetaDesk knows about a 
good number of these sites, it'd be impossible to hunt down each and every 
single possibility. So, this page is here to teach you how to fish.”



[1] http://www.disobey.com/amphetadesk/finding_more.html


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0173.3898127723ae4ac964f41c1a555c6ecb.eml000066400000000000000000000047221444326627400311260ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rssfeeds@example.com  Tue Oct  8 10:55:47 2002
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To: zzzz@example.com
From: aaronsw 
Subject: Iran Pushes UN Intervention Against US
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 08:00:08 -0000
Content-Type: text/plain; encoding=utf-8

URL: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/000643
Date: 2002-10-07T21:35:22-06:00

Yahoo: The Case for Regime Change[1].



    

    Khatami asked the U.N. to set a deadline for Bush to step down in favor of 
    president-in-exile Al Gore the legitimate winner of the 2000 election, the 
    results of which were subverted through widespread voting irregularities 
    and intimidation.  

    [... This will likely require] a prolonged bombing campaign targeting major 
    U.S. cities and military installations, followed by a ground invasion led 
    by European forces. "Civilian casualties would likely be substantial," said 
    a French military analyst. "But the American people must be liberated from 
    tyranny." 

    [...] "Even before Bush, the American political system was a shambles," 
    said Prof. Salvatore Deluna of the University of Madrid. "Their 
    single-party plutocracy will have to be reshaped into true 
    parliamentary-style democracy. Moreover, the economy will have to be 
    retooled from its current military dictatorship model--in which a third of 
    the federal budget goes to arms, and taxes are paid almost exclusively by 
    the working class--to one in which basic human needs such as education and 
    poverty are addressed. Their infrastructure is a mess; they don't even have 
    a national passenger train system. Fixing a failed state of this size will 
    require many years."

    



Welcome news. The only way to crush America's fundamentalist tendencies is by 
showing them who's boss.



[1] http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=127&u=/020927/7/2bxul.html&printer=1


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0174.a916896b6119d1b8a138dfbbeeee7fa1.eml000066400000000000000000000021151444326627400314240ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rssfeeds@example.com  Tue Oct  8 10:55:29 2002
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To: zzzz@example.com
From: oblomovka 
Subject: At last, I have an excuse
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 08:00:10 -0000
Content-Type: text/plain; encoding=utf-8

URL: http://www.oblomovka.com/entries/2002/10/07#1034055900
Date: 2002-10-07T22:45:00-0700

... for not updating: I'm doing the guestblog at Boing Boing[1]. Now to find an 
excuse for missing last week.

[1] http://www.boingboing.net/


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0175.dd1831e0f3322282d3efa5da7aec74f9.eml000066400000000000000000000025061444326627400313360ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rssfeeds@example.com  Tue Oct  8 10:55:40 2002
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To: zzzz@example.com
From: boingboing 
Subject: Man kills self with home booby-traps
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 08:00:26 -0000
Content-Type: text/plain; encoding=utf-8

URL: http://boingboing.net/#85537486
Date: Not supplied

Steve sez: "It's tragic when life imitates Wile E. Coyote cartoons. Guy 
boobytraps his house to get his family if they try to break in, and seemingly 
is killed himself by his own traps." Link[1] Discuss[2] (_Thanks, Steve[3]!_)

[1] http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=573&ncid=757&e=2&u=/nm/20021007/od_nm/boobytraps_dc
[2] http://www.quicktopic.com/boing/H/K9nShVkkrRxi
[3] http://www.portigal.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0176.bd5ef61e0c89ec035829f06f3fe5c7f8.eml000066400000000000000000000022721444326627400313700ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rssfeeds@example.com  Tue Oct  8 10:55:42 2002
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To: zzzz@example.com
From: boingboing 
Subject: Curried radiation burns
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 08:00:26 -0000
Content-Type: text/plain; encoding=utf-8

URL: http://boingboing.net/#85537496
Date: Not supplied

Curcumin, the chemical that makes curry yellow, turns out to be a good compound 
for treating radiation burns resulting from cancer therapy. Link[1] Discuss[2] 
(_Thanks, Cheryl!_)

[1] http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N07347915
[2] http://www.quicktopic.com/boing/H/THKNJnrnHdDd


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0177.fd72517a2ed2a2c29c9822b7124a8f0a.eml000066400000000000000000000022301444326627400311640ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rssfeeds@example.com  Tue Oct  8 10:55:45 2002
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Message-Id: <200210080800.g9880SK06051@dogma.slashnull.org>
To: zzzz@example.com
From: boingboing 
Subject: 1987 copy of Nintendo zine going for $700 on eBay
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 08:00:28 -0000
Content-Type: text/plain; encoding=utf-8

URL: http://boingboing.net/#85535421
Date: Not supplied

A Nintendo newsletter from 1987 is going for ober $700 on eBay. Link[1] Discuss
[2] _(Thanks, Billy Hayes!)_

[1] http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1566539449&rd=1
[2] http://www.quicktopic.com/16/H/wUzqZdX42Az


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0178.8405bbe39a5eb6c1814e3c16602099a4.eml000066400000000000000000000036121444326627400310360ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rssfeeds@example.com  Tue Oct  8 10:55:48 2002
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Message-Id: <200210080800.g9880TK06063@dogma.slashnull.org>
To: zzzz@example.com
From: boingboing 
Subject: Steven Levy's wireless neighbors
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 08:00:29 -0000
Content-Type: text/plain; encoding=utf-8

URL: http://boingboing.net/#85534626
Date: Not supplied

After discovering an open wireless net available from his sofa, Steven 
"Hackers" Levy interviewed lawmen, academics and WiFi activists about the 
legality and ethics of using open wireless access points. 

    I downloaded my mail and checked media news on the Web. When I confessed 
    this to FBI agent Bill Shore, he spared the handcuffs. "The FBI wouldn't 
    waste resources on that," he sniffed. Now I know that if it did, it would 
    be hard to argue that I broke a law. What's more, I certainly didn't feel 
    illegal. Because�and this is the point of all that war-driving and 
    -chalking and node-stumbling�when you get used to wireless, the experience 
    feels more and more like a God-given right. One day we may breathe 
    bandwidth like oxygen�and arguing its illegality will be unthinkable.  

Link[1] Discuss[2] (_Thanks, Steven[3]!_)

[1] http://www.msnbc.com/news/816606.asp
[2] http://www.quicktopic.com/boing/H/f5ZpuJU5975K
[3] http://www.echonyc.com/~steven/


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0179.dee566fc951284d1d3bd3a0fdae63f4d.eml000066400000000000000000000023461444326627400315110ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rssfeeds@example.com  Tue Oct  8 10:55:41 2002
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To: zzzz@example.com
From: boingboing 
Subject: How the other half gives
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 08:00:30 -0000
Content-Type: text/plain; encoding=utf-8

URL: http://boingboing.net/#85534328
Date: Not supplied

The new Neiman Marcus Christmas catalog is out (in October!), including 
you-as-an-action-figure ($7,500), a bamboo hut ($15,000) and a leather frisbee 
($30). Link[1] Discuss[2]

[1] http://www.neimanmarcus.com/store/sitelets/christmasbook2002/fc.htm?navAction=jump&promo=home2
[2] http://www.quicktopic.com/boing/H/sWabFeGyB5u4C


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0180.5790a5f746fbfb83381a28a45889fd6d.eml000066400000000000000000000020101444326627400311360ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rssfeeds@example.com  Tue Oct  8 10:55:45 2002
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Message-Id: <200210080801.g98814K06118@dogma.slashnull.org>
To: zzzz@example.com
From: guardian 
Subject: Police pay damages to journalist
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 08:01:04 -0000
Content-Type: text/plain; encoding=utf-8

URL: http://www.newsisfree.com/click/-2,8655706,215/
Date: 2002-10-08T03:31:00+01:00

BBC reporter Donal MacIntyre wins high profile libel case against police.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0181.d16658bb110eb37495081efa07319db1.eml000066400000000000000000000021511444326627400310210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rssfeeds@example.com  Tue Oct  8 10:56:12 2002
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URL: http://www.newsisfree.com/click/-2,8655710,215/
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*World latest: *Hundreds of Palestinians vent their anger as dozens of Israeli 
tanks withdrew after a gruelling three-hour raid on the Gaza strip.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0182.6a44fa290eebac4c52eb17292623b630.eml000066400000000000000000000021701444326627400311550ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rssfeeds@example.com  Tue Oct  8 10:56:14 2002
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Subject: Nobel prize for British and US scientists
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URL: http://www.newsisfree.com/click/-2,8655712,215/
Date: 2002-10-08T03:30:54+01:00

*Medicine and health: *The discovery of the myriad little deaths which lead to 
life brought the most coveted prize in world medicine to two Britons and an 
American yesterday.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0183.fea0e7b48e16103e73462d5ee52b0d18.eml000066400000000000000000000021241444326627400311660ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rssfeeds@example.com  Tue Oct  8 10:56:16 2002
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URL: http://www.newsisfree.com/click/-2,8655713,215/
Date: 2002-10-08T03:30:53+01:00

*Afghanistan: *In his final report one year from the beginning of the US 
campaign *Rory McCarthy* finds mounting anger at the military presence.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0184.9006c74135af56c874879f0d45c1a689.eml000066400000000000000000000021761444326627400307310ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rssfeeds@example.com  Tue Oct  8 10:56:18 2002
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Subject: Factories go flat while we dither over the euro
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URL: http://www.newsisfree.com/click/-2,8655714,215/
Date: 2002-10-08T03:30:52+01:00

*Business: *The long-awaited recovery in Britain's manufacturing sector ground 
to a halt in August, despite a sharp rise in car production, official figures 
showed yesterday.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0185.2ed7f65beefa89e31abb4fbc75c18956.eml000066400000000000000000000020531444326627400315170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rssfeeds@example.com  Tue Oct  8 10:55:49 2002
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URL: http://www.newsisfree.com/click/-1,8640496,1440/
Date: Not supplied

The largest object found since 1930 is half the size of Pluto, and calls that 
object's planetary status into question


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0186.5abf85594c3b8c40a105eed1154569ed.eml000066400000000000000000000020641444326627400312030ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rssfeeds@example.com  Tue Oct  8 10:56:13 2002
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World chess champion Vladimir Kramnik takes the lead over the computer Deep 
Fritz, after the machine makes a peculiar mistake


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0187.3e01234a92697a2a414ed394ad7177ed.eml000066400000000000000000000020431444326627400310360ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rssfeeds@example.com  Tue Oct  8 10:56:15 2002
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URL: http://www.newsisfree.com/click/-1,8639021,1440/
Date: Not supplied

A new Japanese system allows palmtop computers to swap large amounts of data 
when their owners shake hands


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0188.a7f061d0c2c0395922993a874d534dcb.eml000066400000000000000000000020741444326627400310460ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rssfeeds@example.com  Tue Oct  8 10:56:17 2002
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URL: http://www.newsisfree.com/click/-1,8639022,1440/
Date: Not supplied

The medicine prize goes to research that revealed how cell suicide sculpts the 
body and - when disrupted - causes disease


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0189.01e4dc6ee1379e5ee100b4c33c9c3afd.eml000066400000000000000000000071531444326627400314170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Tue Oct  8 10:56:20 2002
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X-Original-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:43:09 +0300 (EEST)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:43:09 +0300 (EEST)

On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Thomas Vander Stichele wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> In my build scripts, I have problems with some of the kernel packages.
> 
> For kernel-sources, I get :
> 
> Package kernel-source is a virtual package provided by:
>   kernel-source#2.4.18-3 2.4.18-3
>   kernel-source#2.4.18-3 2.4.18-3
> 
> on running apt-get install kernel-source
> 
> Now, first of all, this doesn't really tell me what the two options are ;)
> Second, is there some way I can tell apt-get to install either ? This is 
> done from automatic build scripts so I'd like it to proceed anyway.

That's just apt's way of telling you the package is in "AllowDuplicated", 
meaning multiple versions of the package can be installed at the same 
time. Yes the output is a bit strange.. especially when there's only one 
version available.

'apt-get install kernel-source#2.4.18-3' will install it...

-- 
	- Panu -


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0190.41da72c46bce52a15056a0171b56a917.eml000066400000000000000000000067621444326627400310220ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Tue Oct  8 10:56:24 2002
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Subject: Re: RH 8 no DMA for DVD drive
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X-Original-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:48:01 +0300 (EEST)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:48:01 +0300 (EEST)

On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Jesse Keating wrote:

> On Mon, 7 Oct 2002 19:28:51 +0200
> Matthias Saou  wrote:
> 
> # I've never heard of any CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive having problems with
> # DMA... although there probably is since Red Hat decided to default
> # disabling it a few releases back :-/
> 
> When I worked as a PC repair tech for a Computer store chain, I did
> run across quite a few DVD drives that would lock up if DMA was
> enabled.  It's more of a chipset/drive problem than a Drive by itself.

And my IBM Intellistation would lock up instantly .. now this is actually 
quite funny .. if DMA was enabled for the CD-ROM *and* you tried to access 
a CD with Joliet extensions. Otherwise it worked just fine with DMA 
enabled :)

-- 
	- Panu -


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0191.314e2f68086989044e631e347a03b979.eml000066400000000000000000000057661444326627400305760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Tue Oct  8 11:13:35 2002
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Subject: Re: [ILUG] packaging risks and the reputation of linux distributions
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X-Original-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 03:09:59 -0700
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 03:09:59 -0700

Quoting Brendan Kehoe (brendan@zen.org):

> As a workaround, the various distributions could use a GPG singature
> to verify correctness of the file.  Since the distributor's secret key
> is required to create that signature, it would add a pretty
> significant step that would have to be taken to make it possible to
> replace both a rpm or apt file and its accompanying signature.

There are complex problems inherent in attempts to implement this.
http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info/debian-package-signing

-- 
Cheers,                        My pid is Inigo Montoya.  You kill -9    
Rick Moen                      my parent process.  Prepare to vi.
rick@linuxmafia.com
-- 
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X-Original-Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 12:23:34 +0200
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 12:23:34 +0200

Brendan Kehoe wrote:
> As a workaround, the various distributions could use a GPG singature to verify 
> correctness of the file.  Since the distributor's secret key is required to 
> create that signature, it would add a pretty significant step that would have 
> to be taken to make it possible to replace both a rpm or apt file and its 
> accompanying signature.

Check your local friendly Red Hat installation:

[root@localhost up2date]# rpm --checksig zsh-4.0.2-2.src.rpm
zsh-4.0.2-2.src.rpm: md5 gpg ok

Of course, this is only as useful as, say, the gpg keys distributed with 
the Kernel tarballs, i.e. if you don't actually bother checking the sig 
then you are open to abuse. It's entirely possible that rpm can be 
configured to require good signatures, but I've not read that part of 
the fine manual just yet.

Cheers,
Waider.
-- 
waider@waider.ie / Yes, it /is/ very personal of me

-- 
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0193.74f52046990258e5eb60e561dcd8c2fd.eml000066400000000000000000000064671444326627400311500ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: webdev-admin@linux.ie  Tue Oct  8 12:26:53 2002
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Thanks for the info AJ, I found "weblog" at 
http://awsd.com/scripts/weblog/index.shtml which has some click-path 
reporting. It's simple, but works. Report generation takes a bit though, even 
with dns resolution turned off..

Donncha.


On Monday 07 October 2002 23:35, AJ McKee wrote:
> Donncha,
>
> I've been using mod_usertrack for a good while now. I use in by default in
> every vhost that I set up. I assign a cookie name and set the expiry for
> about a year. I have to say it looks ok. A few things to note though. If a
_______________________________________________
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Subject: [zzzzteana] Fake bank website cons victims
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>>From the BBC website - www.bbc.co.uk

 Tuesday, 8 October, 2002, 09:43 GMT 10:43 UK 

 Fake bank website cons victims
 
 West African criminals have used a fake version of a British bank's online
 service to milk victims of cash, say police. The fake site was used to squeeze
 more money out of people they had already hooked. 
 
 The site has been shut down. But UK National Criminal Intelligence Service,
 (NCIS), said at least two Canadians had lost more than $100,000 after being
 taken in by the fake website. 
 
 The scam behind the fake web domain was the familiar one that offers people a
 share of the huge sums of money they need moved out of various African
 nations. 
 
 NCIS said the use of the web was helping the conmen hook victims that would
 otherwise spot the scam. 
 
 Convincing site 
 
 News of this latest scam was revealed by BBC Radio5Live. It found that an
 unclaimed web domain of a UK bank had been used by conmen to get more cash out
 their victims. 

 A NCIS spokesman said the domain looked legitimate because it had "the" in
 front of the bank's name. 
 
 "I have seen the microsite myself and it's very sophisticated," said the NCIS
 spokesman. "It's very convincing especially to people not very experienced
 online." 
 
 Once the con was discovered it was quickly shut down. However, the people
 behind it have not been caught. 
 
 NCIS does know that at least two people have lost more than $100,000. 
 
 The bank involved has bought up the domain used in the con as well as many
 other permutations of its name to limit the chance it could happen again. 

 Domain games 
 
 Usually people are first hooked in to what has become known as Advanced Fee or
 419 fraud by replying to an unsolicited fax or e-mail offering a share of any
 cash successfully moved out of Africa. 
 
 The '419' refers to the part of the Nigerian penal code dealing with such
 crimes. 
 
 Like any con, there is no money to be moved at all and instead anyone taking
 the bait is asked to pay increasingly large sums to supposedly bribe
 uncooperative officials and to smooth the passage of the cash. 
 
 Although this con has been practiced for years, people still fall victim to
 it. 
 
 NCIS estimates that up to five Americans are sitting in hotel lobbies in
 London everyday waiting to meet people connected with this con. 
 
 Cutting edge fraud 
 
 Often the conmen provide fake banking certificates to give the con an air of
 legitimacy. 
 
 
 People tricked into clicking on fake sites
 
 But a spokesman for NCIS said fake or spoof websites are now being used in
 place of the certificates. 
 
 "To many people nowadays the cutting edge of banking technology is web
 technology," said the spokesman. 
 
 One of the first groups of conmen to use this method set up a fake website
 that supposedly gave victims access to accounts held at the South African
 Reserve Bank, the country's national bank. 
 
 Typically, victims are given a login name and password and are encouraged to
 visit the site so they can see that the cash they are getting a share of has
 been deposited in their name. 
 
 But before they can get their hands on the cash, the victims are typically
 asked to hand over more of their own money to help the transfer go ahead. 
 
 Once the South African police discovered the ruse they declared it a national
 priority crime and soon arrested the 18 people behind it. 
 
 Modern gloss 
 
 An briefing paper prepared by NCIS in August on organised crime noted that
 criminals were increasingly turning to the web to lure new victims and give
 old cons a modern gloss. 
 
 The NCIS spokesman urged people who have fallen victim to 419 fraud to come
 forward and help it track down the perpetrators. He said in the last two
 months it had arrested 24 people overseas involved with this type of fraud. 
 
 He said any e-mail, fax or letter making an offer that looks to good too be
 true, undoubtedly is. 
 
 One of the first companies to fall victim to website spoofing was net payment
 service Paypal. 
 
 Conmen set up a fake site and asked people to visit and re-enter their account
 and credit card details because Paypal had lost the information. 
 
 The website link included in the e-mail looked legitimate but in fact directed
 people to a fake domain that gathered details for the conmen's personal use. 


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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/showbiz/2308581.stm

Tuesday, 8 October, 2002, 07:55 GMT 08:55 UK
Lennon killer seeks parole again

The man who shot dead former Beatle John Lennon is making another bid for
early release from prison - the day before what would have been Lennon's
62nd birthday.
Mark David Chapman, 47, was jailed for life after he admitted killing the
superstar outside his New York apartment building in 1980.
It is the second time in two years that Chapman has sought parole from
Attica state prison.
At a 2000 hearing, he argued that he was no longer a danger to society and
had overcome the psychological problems which led him to shoot the
ex-Beatle.
Chapman had said that a voice in his head told him to shoot the star.
Shot dead
Lennon was shot four times as he emerged from a limousine outside his New
York City apartment on 8 December 1980.
He and his wife Yoko Ono were returning from a late-night recording session
during which time they had been working on Walking on Thin Ice.
Only hours before the shooting, Chapman - who had come to New York from
Hawaii - was photographed with the singer outside the same building as
Lennon signed a copy of his album Double Fantasy for him.
The killer said Lennon had been just "a picture on an album cover" to him
before the shooting.
'Deserved death'
Chapman has said that he should have received the death penalty for his
crime.
Lennon's widow told the 2000 parole hearing that she would not feel safe if
Chapman were released.
Lennon's songwriting partnership with Paul McCartney propelled the
Liverpool-based pop group to international stardom and unparalleled
commercial success.
The Beatles front man, peace campaigner, and all-round iconoclast, would
have been 62 on Wednesday.

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>I'd normally never buy this but the Xbox is Eur300 on IOL's shop, a very
>large company are making a loss on it and:
>
>http://xbox-linux.sourceforge.net/articles.php?aid=1&sub=Press%20Release%3A%20Xbox%20Linux%20Mandrake%209%20Released
>
>Mandrake has been released for it.

isn't it �250 in Smyths?

don't forget to add to that the modchip, and the time to put it on.

(/me thinks unless you want 3d graphics, www.mini-itx.com is the way to go :))

L.
-- 
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http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information.
List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0197.59ea60c031993abdccb762f9dbb35340.eml000066400000000000000000000152761444326627400312670ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: sentto-2242572-56011-1034075737-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com  Tue Oct  8 12:27:25 2002
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,2763,806744,00.html

Evangelicals' threat to new archbishop

Direct action threat over liberal views on sexuality

Stephen Bates, religious affairs correspondent
Tuesday October 8, 2002
The Guardian

Evangelical fundamentalists last night stepped up their campaign to oust
Rowan Williams, the incoming Archbishop of Canterbury, before he even takes
up his post, by threatening to take "direct action" against him.
The council of the Church Society, the Church of England's oldest
evangelical body, joined a younger evangelical pressure group called Reform,
which is also opposed to Dr Williams, in calling on him to recant his
supposedly liberal views on sexuality or stand down.
Following an emergency meeting, the 167-year-old society, whose leaders met
the archbishop last week, proclaimed their continued opposition to his
appointment and called on all Anglicans to spurn him.
The move is the latest stage of an increasingly aggressive attempt to
destabilise the new archbishop, whose leftwing political views are regarded
with deep suspicion by the conservative fringes of the evangelical movement.
Some evangelicals object to Dr Williams's acknowledgement that he has
ordained a gay priest, something many bishops have done, and that those who
have sex outside marriage need not necessarily be spurned. The new
archbishop has repeatedly assured them that he respects the canons of the
church.
Nevertheless, the society said: "It is clear that he prefers his private
judgment to the voice of scripture, to the voice of tradition and to the
common mind of the church. As such he can only be a focus of disunity.
"The council... called upon loyal Anglicans to pray specifically that Rowan
Williams would see the error in his teaching, change his views or stand
down," it said.
The society claimed to have drawn up an "action plan," including calling on
bishops and primates of the 70 million worldwide Anglican communion, of
which archbishops of Canterbury are the leaders, to distance themselves from
Dr Williams's doctrinal and ethical position. It promised it would be
"taking steps towards appropriate direct action".
It added that Dr Williams remained on the editorial board of a journal
called Theology and Sexuality which, six months ago, published articles
allegedly commending homosexual behaviour.
Despite its claim, the society does not represent the common mind of the
church. Dr Williams, currently Archbishop of Wales, was chosen by the crown
appointments commission of church members, including evangelicals, and his
appointment was endorsed by the prime minister and the Queen.
He is due to succeed George Carey, who retires this month, and will be
formally enthroned at Canterbury cathedral in February.
Asked what form direct action might take, the Rev George Curry, the
society's chairman, said: "Watch this space." Presumably it could involve a
small minority of parishes repudiating the new archbishop and seeking
alternative oversight or even demonstrations at services where Dr Williams
is present.
Church of England bishops, who have hitherto largely kept their heads down
during the row, are meeting next week to discuss their response to the
evangelical extremists' challenge, which appears to have grown in the
absence of a robust rebuttal.
A letter by senior theologians in today's Guardian, however, repudiates the
evangelicals' tactics, calling them unseemly and contrary to biblical
teaching.
On the BBC's Thought for the Day yesterday, Angela Tilby, vice-principal of
Westcott House, Cambridge, accused Dr Williams's opponents of presumption
and blackmail. "It is in fact a thoroughly aggressive way to behave. It is
attempting to force an issue by emotional violence... manipulating to get
your way is often preferable to painstaking negotiation," she said.
Last week, Dr Williams said he was deeply saddened. "Matters of sexuality
should not have the priority or centrality that Reform and the Church
Society have tried to give them. The archbishop cannot withdraw his
appointment since so many, including evangelicals, have urged him to take
the post... the archbishop believes it to be his duty under God."


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0198.62d2556d8ae158aa2b1410cb82bfff59.eml000066400000000000000000000107361444326627400312650ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: sentto-2242572-56012-1034075806-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com  Tue Oct  8 12:27:29 2002
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Subject: [zzzzteana] And deliver us from weevil
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,12374,806695,00.html

Weevil pest warms to life in south-west London

James Meek, science correspondent
Tuesday October 8, 2002
The Guardian

They're chomping in Chelsea, Fulham and Pimlico, but despite their fancy
taste in London addresses they are neither posh nor particularly fussy: they
are vine weevils and they want to eat your plants.
Two species of vine weevil previously unable to survive Britain's cold
winters have been discovered in south-west London, and one has also been
detected in Surrey, Cardiff and Edinburgh.
"This is probably the most serious new garden pest in recent memory," said
Max Barclay, the curator of beetles at the Natural History Museum in London
who discovered the creatures in the UK.
The black vine weevil has long been native to Britain, causing enormous
damage to glossy leaved plants such as laurels. But the two new species,
otiorhynchus armadillo and otiorhynchus salicicola, not previously known
north of Switzerland, are now prevalent in south London. "It's very likely
these weevils have been introduced to Britain through imported ornamental
plants from Italy," said Dr Barclay. "It looks like they're here to stay."
He found otiorhynchus armadillo on the window of a Chelsea department store
in 1998, but as the shop sold imported house plants, he assumed it was a
migrant. It has now quietly become the most common species of vine weevil in
south-west London. The second invader is not so numerous, but has
established itself firmly in the same area.
Apart from laurels, vine weevils attack bay, viburnum, ornamental ivy, and
grape vines. An early sign of trouble is that notches appear in leaves. The
soil-dwelling larvae bite the roots off below the surface.
One possible explanation for the invaders' successful colonisation of
Britain is global warming. Earlier springs and milder winters are already a
fact.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0199.4596bad9aa0a3cba6d7c678253725f5e.eml000066400000000000000000000100571444326627400312740ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Tue Oct  8 12:28:03 2002
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Date: Tue,  8 Oct 2002 04:16:52 -0700 (PDT)

http://www.hughes-family.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1075

spamassassin-contrib@msquadrat.de changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 CC|                            |spamassassin-
                   |                            |devel@lists.sourceforge.net
         AssignedTo|spamassassin-               |spamassassin-
                   |devel@lists.sourceforge.net |contrib@msquadrat.de



------- Additional Comments From spamassassin-contrib@msquadrat.de  2002-10-08 04:16 -------
I'm gonna fix this one. I think the best solution will be to copy the modified 
rules to blib and install them from there. Then the rules files will be 
changed on build time and not install time, too. 



------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
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Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 12:17:28 +0100
Subject: [zzzzteana] Nobel astrophysicists
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Nobel Honors 3 for Astrophysics Work 

Tuesday October 8, 2002 12:00 PM
STOCKHOLM, Sweden (AP) - Two Americans and a Japanese won the Nobel Prize in
physics Tuesday for using some of the most obscure particles and waves in
nature to understand the workings of astronomy's grandest wonders.
Riccardo Giacconi, 71, of the Associated Universities Inc. in Washington,
D.C., will get half of the $1 million prize for his role in ``pioneering
contributions to astrophysics, which have led to the discovery of cosmic
X-ray sources.''
Raymond Davis, Jr., 87, of the University of Pennsylvania shares the other
half of the prize with Japanese scientist Masatoshi Koshiba, 76, of the
University of Tokyo. The two men pioneered the construction of giant
underground chambers to detect neutrinos, elusive particles that stream from
the sun by the billion.
Neutrinos offer an unparalleled view of the sun's inner workings because
they are produced in its heart by the same process that causes it to shine.
In fact, Davis' early experiments, performed during the 1960s in a South
Dakota gold mine, confirmed that the sun is powered by nuclear fusion.
Koshiba won his share of the prize for his work at the Kamiokande neutrino
detector in Japan. That experiment confirmed and extended Davis' work, and
also discovered neutrinos coming from distant supernova explosions, some of
the brightest objects in the universe.
The Italian-born Giacconi, a U.S. citizen, was awarded half of the prize for
building the first X-ray telescopes that provided ``completely new - and
sharp - images of the universe,'' the academy said.
His research laid the foundation for X-ray astronomy, which has led to the
discovery of black holes and allowed researchers to peer deep into the
hearts of the dusty young galaxies where stars are born.
When academy officials reached Giacconi by phone at his home outside
Washington, he said he was ``dumbstruck'' to learn of the prize. Koshiba
also was phoned at home in Tokyo, but the academy was still trying to reach
Davis, spokesman Erling Norrby said.
This year's Nobel awards started Monday with the naming of Britons Sydney
Brenner, 75, and Sir John E. Sulston, 60, and American H. Robert Horvitz,
55, as winners of the medicine prize, selected by a committee at the
Karolinska Institute.
The researchers shared it for discoveries about how genes regulate organ
growth and a process of programmed cell deaths that shed light on how
viruses and bacteria invade human cells, including in conditions such as
AIDS, strokes, cancer and heart attacks.
The winner of the Nobel Prize in chemistry will be named on Wednesday
morning and the Bank of Sweden Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of
Alfred Nobel later the same day.
The literature prize winner will be announced on Thursday, the Swedish
Academy said on Tuesday.
The winner of the coveted peace prize - the only one not awarded in Sweden -
will be announced Friday in Oslo, Norway.
The award committees make their decisions in deep secrecy and candidates are
not publicly revealed for 50 years.
Alfred Nobel, the wealthy Swedish industrialist and inventor of dynamite who
endowed the prizes left only vague guidelines for the selection committees.
In his will he said the prize being revealed on Tuesday should be given to
those who ``shall have conferred the greatest benefit on mankind'' and
``shall have made the most important discovery or invention within the field
of physics.''
The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences, which also chooses the chemistry and
economics winners, invited nominations from previous recipients and experts
in the fields before cutting down its choices. Deliberations are conducted
in strict secrecy.
The prizes are presented on Dec. 10, the anniversary of Nobel's death in
1896, in Stockholm and in Oslo.
---
On the Net:
Nobel site, http://www.nobel.se 

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Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 12:18:52 +0100
Subject: [zzzzteana] Lioness adopts fifth antelope
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,806579,00.html

Lioness adopts fifth antelope

Rory Carroll, Africa correspondent
Tuesday October 8, 2002
The Guardian

Kamuniak the dysfunctional lioness has forfeited another meal by adopting
her fifth baby oryx this year, an aberration of nature which has baffled
wildlife experts.
The young lioness in the Samburu national park in northern Kenay adopted her
latest baby at the weekend, a wildlife service warden said yesterday.
Each time Kamuniak, whose name means "the blessed one" in the local Samburu
tongue, has tried to protect the antelopes from other predators and allowed
the natural mothers to feed them.
Unfortunately for her, one oryx ended up in the belly of a male lion while
Kamuniak slept; the others were either rescued by wardens or retrieved by
their natural mothers.
The wardens think the latest adoptee, nicknamed Naisimari ("taken by
force"), was adopted at the weekend.
"She must have adopted her on Sunday because they are in harmony," said
Gabriel Lepariyo, a warden.
Naisimari's natural mother has been seen shadowing the odd couple at a
distance.
Theories to explain the phenonemon abound: not having her own cubs, Kamuniak
is lonely; she is colour-blind and short-sighted and thinks the calves are
cubs; the oryx were too frail to flee, breaking the classic prey behaviour
and confusing the hunter; Kamuniak wants to be a vegetarian; Kamuniak wants
to be loved. 

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Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 13:28:56 +0100
Subject: [zzzzteana] Dracula theme park could be switched to Bucharest
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Ananova:� 
Dracula theme park could be switched to Bucharest

A controversial scheme to build a Dracula theme park in Romania could be
switched away from Transylvania.
Consultants PricewaterhouseCoopers is now recommending that it be built in
Bucharest instead.
It comes after Prince Charles led international protests against the
original proposals to build it in the medieval town of Sigishoara.
PricewaterhouseCoopers name Bucharest, originally believed to be an outsider
in the race to host the park, as the most profitable location for the
project.
But that has angered residents in Sigishoara, where Vlad the Impaler, the
inspiration for Dracula, was born. They are counting on the park to boost
the local economy.
Evenimentul Zilei reports that Sigishoara was placed behind the capital with
the Black Sea port of Constanta third choice.
Dorin Danesan, mayor of Sigishoara, said: "The pre-feasibility report from
PWC shows that the park would attract more tourists if it was located in
Bucharest. But I still think that Sigishoara is the best location for it."
The park would include hotels, a Dracula roller coaster, catacombs, a ghost
train and a house of horrors, as well as vampire dungeons located around a
reconstruction of Dracula's castle and an artificial lake.
The project has also been objected to by the world heritage organisation
Unesco fearing Sigishoara might be spoilt.
PricewaterhouseCoopers is to present its final report on the project on
October 15.
Story filed: 13:16 Tuesday 8th October 2002

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0203.5f055220d95eaa1de71c7f24e004a7f5.eml000066400000000000000000000101261444326627400311540ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: sentto-2242572-56020-1034080299-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com  Tue Oct  8 14:40:31 2002
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Ananova:� 
Newspaper's readers complain over 'let's have sex' picture caption

Readers of an African newspaper have complained after a picture caption
about jewellery contained the words "let's have sex".
The mix-up highlights the problems caused by the wide range of languages
spoken in Namibia.
Callers to the Namibian were angered by the use of the word tulumweni, which
translates roughly as "let's have intercourse" in the Oshiwambo language.
It was used in a caption concerning people in the Caprivi who use rings from
the femidon - female condom - as jewellery.
According to the The Namibian , an activist involved in care for Aids/HIV
patients spelt the word tulumweni for the journalist.
He intended it to mean "you will see for yourselves" in the Siyeyi tongue.
One caller said the complainants "should be considerate of other people's
languages. It is very clear that the picture was taken in the Caprivi ...And
that the word is from Siyeyi. It is not Oshiwambo".
Others indicated that various words might have different meanings in various
Namibian languages, such as omakende, an Oshiwambo word for glasses which in
Siyeyi means testicles.
Another word with a double-meaning is tulikunde, which in Oshiwambo
translates as let's talk, but which in Sisubiya translates as let's have
intercourse.
The Herero word for a hat is ekoli, which is an Oshiwambo word for a vagina.
Story filed: 12:37 Tuesday 8th October 2002

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0204.d0d4480181d7f3becf6f755de8a21019.eml000066400000000000000000000066501444326627400312000ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: sentto-2242572-56021-1034080421-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com  Tue Oct  8 14:40:28 2002
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HUBBLE SPOTS AN ICY WORLD FAR BEYOND PLUTO
------------------------------------------
Astronomers have discovered a distant body that appears to be the
largest object in the Kuiper Belt, a body half the size of Pluto that
raises new questions about the definition of a planet. The icy world
2002 LM60 has been dubbed "Quaoar".

    http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0210/07quaoar/


ASTRONOMERS SLICE AND DICE GALAXIES
-----------------------------------
New views of star birth and the heart of a spiral galaxy have been
seen by a state-of-the-art astronomical instrument on its first
night. The new spectrometer has a revolutionary ability to 'slice'
any object in the sky into sections, producing a three dimensional
view of the conditions throughout entire galaxies in a single
observation.

    http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0210/08galaxies/

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0205.84f75723dcf7639ed057a32283048bdf.eml000066400000000000000000000072551444326627400310610ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Tue Oct  8 14:39:45 2002
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Actually, I'd be more inclined to look into:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/27489.html

Avoiding giving any cash to a certain corporation 

P

> -----Original Message-----
> >I'd normally never buy this but the Xbox is Eur300 on IOL's shop, a very
> >large company are making a loss on it and:
> >
> >http://xbox-linux.sourceforge.net/articles.php?aid=1&sub=Press%20Release%
> 3A%20Xbox%20Linux%20Mandrake%209%20Released
> >
> >Mandrake has been released for it.
> 
> isn't it �250 in Smyths?
> 
> don't forget to add to that the modchip, and the time to put it on.
> 
> (/me thinks unless you want 3d graphics, www.mini-itx.com is the way to go
> :))
> 

-- 
Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie
http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription information.
List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0206.074e2d251c644abdbd8dab68d035e209.eml000066400000000000000000000110111444326627400312300ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Oct  8 14:40:22 2002
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Rohit Khare wrote:
> 
> Why am I so passionate about decentralization? Because I believe some of
> today?s most profound problems with networked applications are caused by
> centralization.
> 
> Generically, a centralized political or economic system permits only one
> answer to a question, while decentralization permits many separate
> agents to hold different opinions of the same matter. In the specific
> context of software, centralized variables can only contain one valid
> value at a time. That limits us to only representing information A)
> according to the beliefs of a single agency, and B) that changes more
> slowly than it takes to propagate. Nevertheless, centralization is the
> basis for today?s most popular architectural style for developing
> network applications: client-server interaction using request-response
> communication protocols.

I think the ability to maintain an inconsistent database
is key to decentralization. 

Databases enforce consistenty with every transaction.
Bounded transactions, like an ATM, enforce consistency
  by have some play with time and value
Most people keep inconsistent data in their heads, it's
  called congnitive dissonance theory
Most businesses keep inconsistent data, documents, tationale
  and ideas to support their work activities, it's called real life.

I don't think it matters so much where it's located, i.e.
decentralization. I think that decentralization is the workaround
from technical limitations.  The fallout being that the only way
inconsistent information spaces can be maintained is by 
protecting them through a set of trust barriers and boundaries. 
The local information when combined with the technical
troubles of providing "just enough" forced synchronization
to remote information provide workable data consistenty, i.e.
enforcing local constraints or ignoring global ones when
concerns are more immedidate.  

Tolerating temporary, irreconcilable deviations is how
people cope, otherwise you'd be like Nick Gatsby unnecessarily
pre-occupied with a spot of shaving cream on McKee's neck
who thinks that if he can just wipe that spot off that the
whole world would be a little more perfect and everything,
including his pre-occupation with Daisy, would consistently
be in its proper place.

Greg


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Subject: [zzzzteana] FW: please give generously
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-----Original Message-----

Subject: please give generously

> >
> >
> >
> > Please give generously...
> >
> > URGENT - DUDLEY EARTHQUAKE APPEAL
> >
> > At 00:54 on Monday 23 September an earthquake measuring 4.8 on the
> >
> > Richter scale hit Dudley,UK causing untold disruption and distress -
> >
> > * Many were woken well before their giro arrived
> >
> > * Several priceless collections of mementos from the Balearics and
> >
> > Spanish costas were damaged
> >
> > * Three areas of historic and scientifically significant litter were
> >
> > disturbed
> >
> > * Thousands are confused and bewildered, trying to come to terms with
> >
> > the fact that something interesting has happened in Dudley
> >
> > One resident, Donna-Marie Dutton, a 17 year old mother-of-three said "It
> >
> > was such a shock, little Chantal-Leanne came running into my bedroom
> >
> > crying. My youngest two, Tyler-Morgan and Megan-Storm slept through it.
> >
> > I was still shaking when I was watching Trisha the next morning."
> >
> > Apparently though, looting did carry on as normal.
> >
> > The British Red Cross have so far managed to ship 4000 crates of Sunny
> >
> > Delight to the area to help the stricken masses.
> >
> > Rescue workers are still searching through the rubble and have found
> >
> > large quantities of personal belongings including benefit books and
> >
> > jewellery from Elizabeth Duke at Argos.
> >
> > HOW YOU CAN HELP
> >
> > * �2 buys chips, scraps and blue pop for a family of four
> >
> > * �10 can take a family to Stourport for the day, where children can
> >
> > play on an unspoiled canal bank among the national collection of
> >
> > stinging nettles
> >
> > * 22p buys a biro for filling in a spurious compensation claim
> >
> > PLEASE ACT NOW
> >
> > Simply email us by return with your credit card details and we'll do the
> >
> > rest! If you prefer to donate cash, there are collection points
> >
> > available at your local branches of Argos, Iceland and Clinton Cards.
> >




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What the Press is Reporting and Why (www.mediaunspun.com)
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October 8, 2002

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IN THIS ISSUE
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* BUSH COVERS THE WATERFRONT
* THE BIGGEST CABLE HOOKUP

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EDITOR'S NOTE
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BUSH COVERS THE WATERFRONT
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It may seem like all Iraq, all the time in the Oval Office, but
the president has at least one other thing on his mind this
week: that pesky port lockout. The freight still isn't moving,
factories are running out of parts, produce is rotting, and
retailers are more freaked about Christmas with every passing
day. 

On Monday, Bush stepped in and appointed a three-member panel to 
see how badly this shutdown is hosing the economy. (We hope this 
isn't a difficult question, as the panel's been given all of one 
day to report back.) When Bush gets the report on Tuesday, the
next step might be a court order to reopen the ports under the
1947 Taft-Hartley Act. That would send employees back to work
for 80 days while federal mediators duke it out over the
disputed contract and retailers lower their Xanax dosages.

Invoking Taft-Hartley requires a threat to national health or
safety -- not the economy. But Labor Secretary Elaine Chao
covered that base in a statement on Monday, saying the work
stoppage threatens the flow of supplies to the military (we knew 
Iraq would be in here somewhere). "Union officials quickly
responded that their members have been unloading military cargo
throughout the 10-day shutdown," said the L.A. Times, but an
anonymous Bush administration official "said that only a portion 
of what the Defense Department needs has made it ashore."

Politically, this has been a tricky one. Using Taft-Hartley
would annoy labor right before congressional elections. On the
other hand, "Voter discontent with Bush's handling of the
increasingly fragile economic recovery has begun showing up in
polls, and such concerns may have outweighed the political
danger to the Republican administration," said the San Francisco 
Chronicle. Also, Bush stepped in on the same day that a poll
reported two-thirds of Americans wanted him to focus more on the 
economy. "Though the administration promised an unbiased
examination of the lockout, Bush appeared to have made up his
mind that it was hurting national security and the economy,
andmerited federal intervention," said the AP. 

As for Taft-Hartley, it's not exactly famous for solving labor
disputes. Often the 80-day cooling-off period ends, and workers
simply walk out again (or get locked out again, in this case).
One gets the sense, however, that fixing the dockworkers'
contract isn't the point of this particular 80 days. It's 78
days until Christmas. The race is on. - Jen Muehlbauer

President Acts To Halt Port Lockout for 80 Days (Seattle
Times)
http://tinyurl.com/1usn

Bush Expected To Act on Ports Crisis 
http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/business/1002/08ports.html

President Moves Toward Forcing the Reopening of West Coast
Ports
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ports8oct08001439,0,1021983.story


Bush Takes Step Toward Halting Lockout After West Coast Port
Talks Break Off (AP)
http://tinyurl.com/1usk

White House Intervenes on Docks Dispute (Financial Times)
http://tinyurl.com/1usm

Cooling-off Period Likely in Port Fight (SF Chronicle)
http://tinyurl.com/1usp

Bush Moves Toward Halting Port Shutdown
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/08/national/08PORT.html

Trouble On The Docks
http://online.wsj.com/page/0,,2_0864,00.html
(Paid subscription required.)

Charges of Politics Have Dogged Taft-Hartley Act
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/90243_hartley08.shtml

Taft-Hartley Act No Quick-Fix For Port Dispute (Reuters)
http://www.forbes.com/work/newswire/2002/10/02/rtr739458.html


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REVIEW. Get an inside view into the technologies, deals, and
companies emerging from one of the leading research institutes
-- MIT. 
http://www.technologyinsider.com/new/news1 

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THE BIGGEST CABLE HOOKUP
-----------------------------------------------------------------
wo birds want to join forces and the FCC is about to cry "fowl." 
We mean "foul." The two dominant direct broadcast satellite
players want to join forces, the better to compete with Big
Cable. Federal regulators, both the FCC and the Justice
Department, are concerned that the resulting conglomerate of
DirecTV with Dish Network would command roughly 95% of satellite 
service in the US.

The press could not settle on a price tag for the proposed
merger between EchoStar Communications and Hughes Electronics -- 
it was described as being worth anywhere from $15 billion and
$25 billion. It was a challenge to keep the players straight, as 
some outlets talked of a merger between the corporate parents,
and others referred to the service monikers. Hughes is DirecTV
and EchoStar is Dish. All straight?

The two companies sent a letter to the FCC urging them to hold
off ruling on (read, rejecting) the merger until the Justice
Department has spoken. EchoStar and Hughes offered unspecified
"major revisions" to the deal that they want to discuss with
Justice in the next weeks.

The Wall Street Journal delved deeply into the form those
revisions could take -- specifically, selling some frequencies
to Cablevision. The Journal reported that Cablevision has wanted 
to get into the satellite business for 10 years and outlined the 
cable company's plans and past spending on such a project.

TheStreet.com turned in an extensive analysis of the deal for
investors in the satellite space. It seems the market for
expanded-service television may be nearing saturation.
TheStreet.com quoted an analyst's report which concluded,
"Consumers should benefit from ... continued rivalry, but
shareholders may realize much smaller returns."

The New York Times and the Journal both mentioned Rupert Murdoch 
waiting in the wings. Last year Murdoch's News Corp. bid for
DirecTV, but lost out at the last minute to EchoStar. If the
current deal falls through, he'll be back. - Keith Dawson

EchoStar and Hughes Propose Concessions in Bid to Save Deal
http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB103403314258094560,00.html
(Paid subscription required)

Regulators Set to Block EchoStar's Hughes Purchase
http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1033939901346228393,00.html
(Paid subscription required)

'Last-ditch effort' (Rocky Mountain News)
http://tinyurl.com/1upi

EchoStar, Hughes See a Glimmer of Hope
http://www.thestreet.com/tech/georgemannes/10046366.html

F.C.C. Asked to Put Off Merger Ruling
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/08/business/media/08BIRD.html

EchoStar, Hughes ask FCC to defer decision
http://www.nypost.com/business/59145.htm

EchoStar, Hughes offer merger changes (Reuters) 
http://news.com.com/2100-1023-961138.html

Delay in satellite-TV merger OK requested (AP)
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/business/4236430.htm

EchoStar, Hughes Seek to Delay Ruling
http://www.latimes.com/technology/la-fi-echo8oct08,0,3454976.story


EchoStar pleads to FCC on merger (Denver Post)
http://tinyurl.com/1ut7

-----------------------------------------------------------------
OTHER STORIES
-----------------------------------------------------------------
SEC Probes AOL-Oxygen Pact For Double-Booking of Revenue
http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1033938113684731193,00.html
(Paid subscription required.)

Tivo Raises $25 Million in Stock Offering (AP)
http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/4235118.htm

WorldCom Officer Pleads Guilty to Fraud
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57300-2002Oct7.html


Two Magazines Are Shut and a Third Revamps
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/08/business/media/08MAG.html

Regulators Say They Have CSFB 'Smoking Gun'
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/banking/2002-10-06-csfb_x.htm


Expected Cold Winter Could Increase Natural Gas Prices 
http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/business/1002/08gas.html

Frozen World Found Beyond Pluto
http://www.msnbc.com/news/818195.asp

Fool Me Once
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/08/opinion/08KRUG.html

New Northwest System for Internet Bookings
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/08/business/08MEMO.html

The Fastest-Growing Tech Companies
http://www.business2.com/b2100/0,,1-1,00.html

Debating the Baby Bells
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/07/business/07PLAC.html
(Paid subscription required)

Silicon Valley Is Yearning For User-Friendly Microsoft
http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1034036651300028760,00.html
(Paid subscription required)

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Advertise in Media Unspun.
Contact Erik Vanderkolk for details at erikvanderkolk@yahoo.com 
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STAFF
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Written by Deborah Asbrand (dasbrand@world.std.com), Keith
Dawson (dawson@world.std.com), Jen Muehlbauer
(jen@englishmajor.com), and Lori Patel (loripatel@hotmail.com).

Copyedited by Jim Duffy (jimduffy86@yahoo.com). 
Advertising: Erik Vanderkolk (erikvanderkolk@yahoo.com). 
Editor and publisher: Jimmy Guterman (guterman@vineyard.com).

Media Unspun is produced by The Vineyard Group Inc. 
Copyright 2002 Media Unspun, Inc., and The Vineyard Group, Inc.

Subscribe already, willya? http://www.mediaunspun.com
 
Redistribution by email is permitted as long as a link to
http://newsletter.mediaunspun.com is included.


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Media Unspun serves business news and analysis, authoritatively and irreverently, every business day. An annual subscription costs $50, less than a dollar a week. If your four-week free trial is coming to an end soon, please visit http://www.mediaunspun.com/subscribe.html  and sign up via credit card or check.



					
					

				
			
			
		
 
		
	
	

	
	
 

				
 





				
									

			
			
			
			
				
				
				  



		
	
	

	

	
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			Bush Covers the Waterfront
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			

		
			
		
			
			
				
					
					



























					
		
		
	
	




					
					
It may seem like all Iraq, all the time in the Oval Office, but the president has at least one other thing on his mind this week: that pesky port lockout. The freight still isn't moving, factories are running out of parts, produce is rotting, and retailers are more freaked about Christmas with every passing day. 

On Monday, Bush stepped in and appointed a three-member panel to see how badly this shutdown is hosing the economy. (We hope this isn't a difficult question, as the panel's been given all of one day to report back.) When Bush gets the report on Tuesday, the next step might be a court order to reopen the ports under the 1947 Taft-Hartley Act. That would send employees back to work for 80 days while federal mediators duke it out over the disputed contract and retailers lower their Xanax
dosages.

Invoking Taft-Hartley requires a threat to national health or safety -- not the economy. But Labor Secretary Elaine Chao covered that base in a statement on Monday, saying the work stoppage threatens the flow of supplies to the military (we knew Iraq would be in here somewhere). "Union officials quickly responded that their members have been unloading military cargo throughout the 10-day shutdown," said the L.A. Times, but an anonymous Bush administration official "said that only a portion of
what the Defense Department needs has made it ashore."

Politically, this has been a tricky one. Using Taft-Hartley would annoy labor right before congressional elections. On the other hand, "Voter discontent with Bush's handling of the increasingly fragile economic recovery has begun showing up in polls, and such concerns may have outweighed the political danger to the Republican administration," said the San Francisco Chronicle. Also, Bush stepped in on the same day that a poll reported two-thirds of Americans wanted him to focus more on the
economy. "Though the administration promised an unbiased examination of the lockout, Bush appeared to have made up his mind that it was hurting national security and the economy, andmerited federal intervention," said the AP. 

As for Taft-Hartley, it's not exactly famous for solving labor disputes. Often the 80-day cooling-off period ends, and workers simply walk out again (or get locked out again, in this case). One gets the sense, however, that fixing the dockworkers' contract isn't the point of this particular 80 days. It's 78 days until Christmas. The race is on. - Jen Muehlbauer

President Acts To Halt Port Lockout for 80 Days (Seattle Times)

http://tinyurl.com/1usn 

Bush Expected To Act on Ports Crisis 

http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/business/1002/08ports.html 

President Moves Toward Forcing the Reopening of West Coast Ports

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ports8oct08001439,0,1021983.story 

Bush Takes Step Toward Halting Lockout After West Coast Port Talks Break Off (AP)

http://tinyurl.com/1usk 

White House Intervenes on Docks Dispute (Financial Times)

http://tinyurl.com/1usm 

Cooling-off Period Likely in Port Fight (SF Chronicle)

http://tinyurl.com/1usp 

Bush Moves Toward Halting Port Shutdown

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/08/national/08PORT.html 

Trouble On The Docks

http://online.wsj.com/page/0,,2_0864,00.html 

(Paid subscription required.)

Charges of Politics Have Dogged Taft-Hartley Act

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/90243_hartley08.shtml 

Taft-Hartley Act No Quick-Fix For Port Dispute (Reuters)

http://www.forbes.com/work/newswire/2002/10/02/rtr739458.html 



					
					

				
			
			
		
 
		
	
	

	
	
 

				
 





				
									

			
			
			
			
				
				
				  



		
	
	

	

	
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SPECIAL OFFER!   Save 24% on a subscription to MIT TECHNOLOGY REVIEW. Get an inside view into the technologies, deals, and companies emerging from one of the leading research institutes -- MIT. 

http://www.technologyinsider.com/new/news1  

					
					

				
			
			
		
 
		
	
	

	

	
 

				
 





				
									

			
			
			
			
				
				
				  



		
	
	

	

	







	
	
	

	

		
	
	

	  
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			The Biggest Cable Hookup
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			

		
			
		
			
			
				
					
					



























					
		
		
	
	




					
					
wo birds want to join forces and the FCC is about to cry "fowl." We mean "foul." The two dominant direct broadcast satellite players want to join forces, the better to compete with Big Cable. Federal regulators, both the FCC and the Justice Department, are concerned that the resulting conglomerate of DirecTV with Dish Network would command roughly 95% of satellite service in the US.

The press could not settle on a price tag for the proposed merger between EchoStar Communications and Hughes Electronics -- it was described as being worth anywhere from $15 billion and $25 billion. It was a challenge to keep the players straight, as some outlets talked of a merger between the corporate parents, and others referred to the service monikers. Hughes is DirecTV and EchoStar is Dish. All straight?

The two companies sent a letter to the FCC urging them to hold off ruling on (read, rejecting) the merger until the Justice Department has spoken. EchoStar and Hughes offered unspecified "major revisions" to the deal that they want to discuss with Justice in the next weeks.

The Wall Street Journal delved deeply into the form those revisions could take -- specifically, selling some frequencies to Cablevision. The Journal reported that Cablevision has wanted to get into the satellite business for 10 years and outlined the cable company's plans and past spending on such a project.

TheStreet.com turned in an extensive analysis of the deal for investors in the satellite space. It seems the market for expanded-service television may be nearing saturation. TheStreet.com quoted an analyst's report which concluded, "Consumers should benefit from ... continued rivalry, but shareholders may realize much smaller returns."

The New York Times and the Journal both mentioned Rupert Murdoch waiting in the wings. Last year Murdoch's News Corp. bid for DirecTV, but lost out at the last minute to EchoStar. If the current deal falls through, he'll be back. - Keith Dawson

EchoStar and Hughes Propose Concessions in Bid to Save Deal

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB103403314258094560,00.html 

(Paid subscription required)

Regulators Set to Block EchoStar's Hughes Purchase

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1033939901346228393,00.html 

(Paid subscription required)

'Last-ditch effort' (Rocky Mountain News)

http://tinyurl.com/1upi 

EchoStar, Hughes See a Glimmer of Hope

http://www.thestreet.com/tech/georgemannes/10046366.html 

F.C.C. Asked to Put Off Merger Ruling

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/08/business/media/08BIRD.html 

EchoStar, Hughes ask FCC to defer decision

http://www.nypost.com/business/59145.htm 

EchoStar, Hughes offer merger changes (Reuters) 

http://news.com.com/2100-1023-961138.html 

Delay in satellite-TV merger OK requested (AP)

http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/business/4236430.htm 

EchoStar, Hughes Seek to Delay Ruling

http://www.latimes.com/technology/la-fi-echo8oct08,0,3454976.story 

EchoStar pleads to FCC on merger (Denver Post)

http://tinyurl.com/1ut7 

					
					

				
			
			
		
 
		
	
	

	  
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			Other Stories
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			

		
			
		
			
			
				
					
					



























					
		
		
	
	




					
					
SEC Probes AOL-Oxygen Pact For Double-Booking of Revenue

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1033938113684731193,00.html 

(Paid subscription required.)

Tivo Raises $25 Million in Stock Offering (AP)

http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/4235118.htm 

WorldCom Officer Pleads Guilty to Fraud

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A57300-2002Oct7.html 

Two Magazines Are Shut and a Third Revamps

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/08/business/media/08MAG.html 

Regulators Say They Have CSFB 'Smoking Gun'

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/banking/2002-10-06-csfb_x.htm 

Expected Cold Winter Could Increase Natural Gas Prices 

http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/business/1002/08gas.html 

Frozen World Found Beyond Pluto

http://www.msnbc.com/news/818195.asp 

Fool Me Once

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/08/opinion/08KRUG.html 

New Northwest System for Internet Bookings

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/08/business/08MEMO.html 

The Fastest-Growing Tech Companies

http://www.business2.com/b2100/0,,1-1,00.html 

Debating the Baby Bells

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/07/business/07PLAC.html 

(Paid subscription required)

Silicon Valley Is Yearning For User-Friendly Microsoft

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB1034036651300028760,00.html 

(Paid subscription required)

					
					

				
			
			
		
 
		
	
	

	
	
 

				
 





				
									

			
			
			
			
				
				
				  



		
	
	

	

	
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			Staff
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			
			

		
			
		
			
			
				
					
					Written by Deborah Asbrand (dasbrand@world.std.com), Keith Dawson (dawson@world.std.com), Jen Muehlbauer (jen@englishmajor.com), and Lori Patel (loripatel@hotmail.com).


Copyedited by Jim Duffy (jimduffy86@yahoo.com).


Advertising: Erik Vanderkolk (erikvanderkolk@yahoo.com).


Editor and publisher: Jimmy Guterman (guterman@vineyard.com).


Media Unspun is produced by The Vineyard Group Inc.

Copyright 2002 Media Unspun, Inc., and The Vineyard Group, Inc.

Subscribe already, willya? http://www.mediaunspun.com


Redistribution by email is permitted as long as a link to http://newsletter.mediaunspun.com is included.
					
					

				
			
			
		
 
		
	
	

	
	
 

				
 





				
									

			
			
			
		
				
			
			
			
			  
			  
				
				
				



	

	


 







	
		
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Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 09:24:39 -0400
Subject: [zzzzteana] Pravda reports cities on the moon!
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From: Steve Speer
Subject: http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/10/05/37771.html

[not sure what the rules for crossposting between the two groups is...
  my reasoning is that it's a major newspaper reporting evidence of
  alien life so.... /t]
-- 

http://loopNY.com ......................An "open loop": shows every Saturday!
http://extremeNY.com/submit .......................... submit to the calendar.

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0210.35f5f8aef973035bc4ec4ad13d717ebf.eml000066400000000000000000000057261444326627400314240ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Tue Oct  8 14:39:48 2002
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 I seem to be having a little trouble with it. My printers.conf is:


Info Hp4050
Location locals
DeviceURI ipp://192.168.2.90:9100/
State Idle
Accepting Yes
JobSheets none none
QuotaPeriod 0
PageLimit 0
KLimit 0


 and cupds uses that to make a printcap of:

lp:

 Sounds dodgy to me. If someone has an example printers.conf/printcap for
a JetDirect printer, I'd appreciate it if they sent it on.

John

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0211.abf5659ad8e94f01551b685061f06d94.eml000066400000000000000000000063001444326627400310400ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Tue Oct  8 14:40:20 2002
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Subject: Re: [ILUG] mini-itx
From: Philip Trickett 
To: John Moylan 
Cc: ilug@linux.ie
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On Tue, 2002-10-08 at 14:13, John Moylan wrote:
> Hmm, speaking of cheap machines etc, has anyone tried this sort of 
> thing: http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/humidor64/ ? or more importantly 
> has anyone had any positive/negative experiences with the Via mini-itx 
> boards/via c3 processors.
> I recall a thread last year about building a custom MP3/CD/Game/vcd 
> recorder machine, these systems seem to hit the mark. Also, I need to 
> build a new box, and I was thinking about something that would be as 
> unobtrusive as possible in my living room;)
> 
> John


The forums there are very informative, and there is also more info on
using linux on the mini ITX boards at http://linitx.org/.

A couple of the autopc projects make interesting reading in this regard:
http://thisstrife.com/ but most of them seem to use windows for some
unknown reason.....

HTH

Phil 

-- 
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http://www.ouchytheclown.com/welcome.html



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On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 MICGRANGER@aol.com wrote:

> Concerning this mail, what is your intention?

When posting to this list excerpts from books I've just read, I usually
refrain from adding any comments, letting the listmembers interpret them
as they see fit.

But since you asked....

I chose to post this text simply because I thought it was a particularly
risible example of Doyle's invincible faith and his refusal to accept the
fucking obvious.

bc


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Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 14:42:46 -0400
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David asked:
> My wife noticed something odd.  The nearly-full moon was about 30
> degrees above the horizon.  There was a notable glow on the horizon,
> except under the moon.  The moon seemed to be in a column of darkness
> that was about three times the apparent width of the moon.  We could see
> the column over its entire length as a strip of sky darker than the sky
> around it.
>
> Any of you ever see this?  Do you have any idea what could have caused
> it?  I suspect it's due to some pecularity of the visual system, but
> have no clear idea.

I'm surprised to not find this phenomenon in Corlis. I could have sworn I
saw it there. He does have the somewhat similar dark sky between a rainbow
and a secondary bow. I personally have seen a rainbow enclosing a
semi-circle of darker sky.

I know I've read about pillars under the Sun and Moon elsewhere, but I can't
recall if they were reportedly dark or bright. I do know these sorts of
things are supposed to be quirks of optics not of the visual system. I'm
sorry I haven't got any answers, but a search through some books on
atmospheric optics ought to turn a few hints up.

Bill

William Jacobs
Freelance Unemployed Person


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>peter fwded:
>>Finally, Constable Evans hurled a thong at the animal, hitting it on the
>>head.
>
>I know this isn't *quite* as funny to Australians as it is to
>everyone else. Honestly.
>
>Rachel
>not that walloping it with a flip-flop isn't hilarious too...
>--

well unless you used the thong like a sling shot.....
-- 


Fel
http://www.frogstone.net
Weird Page: http://my.athenet.net/~felinda/WeirdPage.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 23:57:42 -0400
Subject: RE: [zzzzteana] Moon over ocean
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>David asked:
>> My wife noticed something odd.  The nearly-full moon was about 30
>> degrees above the horizon.  There was a notable glow on the horizon,
>> except under the moon.  The moon seemed to be in a column of darkness
>> that was about three times the apparent width of the moon.  We could see
>> the column over its entire length as a strip of sky darker than the sky
>> around it.
>>
>> Any of you ever see this?  Do you have any idea what could have caused
>> it?  I suspect it's due to some pecularity of the visual system, but
>> have no clear idea.

Bill Jacobs:
> I'm surprised to not find this phenomenon in Corlis. I could have sworn I
> saw it there. He does have the somewhat similar dark sky between a rainbow
> and a secondary bow. I personally have seen a rainbow enclosing a
> semi-circle of darker sky.
>
> I know I've read about pillars under the Sun and Moon elsewhere,
> but I can't recall if they were reportedly dark or bright. I do know
> these sorts of things are supposed to be quirks of optics not of the
> visual system. I'm sorry I haven't got any answers, but a search
> through some books on atmospheric optics ought to turn a few hints up.

Some links:

comprehensive
http://www.meteoros.de/indexe.htm

Atmospheric Light Phenomena
http://www.auf.asn.au/meteorology/section12.html

interesting observational stuff from the prior millenium including pix
(click 1997 / colour plates)
http://www.ursa.fi/ursa/jaostot/halot/ehp/index.html

more pix, many of which flip to negative to highlight details (hover cursor)
http://idefix.taide.turkuamk.fi/~iluukkon/taivas/valok/88.html and
subsequent links

john k


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0217.36d91fd462703996ea8b15571a778f5b.eml000066400000000000000000000064351444326627400310110ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: Stewart.Smith@ee.ed.ac.uk  Wed Aug 28 10:53:44 2002
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> An illusionist has emerged after 24 hours underwater in a case in New York's
> Times Square.

I'd just like to recommend the newest Viz to ukers just for the hilarious "David 
Blaine: Stalag Magician".  The ego'd one is in a WWII prison camp and sort of 
trying to escape.  Several times he seems to have escaped and the british 
officers celebrate before it's revealed he's been buried alive or hiding in a 
freezer.  At one point he's asked why and says "Well it's not for publicity" 
Cracking stuff.

Stew
-- 
Stewart Smith
Scottish Microelectronics Centre, University of Edinburgh.
http://www.ee.ed.ac.uk/~sxs/


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> So now Osama bin Laden is Hitler. And Saddam Hussein is Hitler. And
> George Bush is fighting the Nazis. 

Someone should shout "Godwin!" at him at a press conference.  Then he'd have to 
shut up.  Or does that only work on Usenet?

Stew
-- 
Stewart Smith
Scottish Microelectronics Centre, University of Edinburgh.
http://www.ee.ed.ac.uk/~sxs/


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On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 10:15:36 -0500 (EST)
Jay Lake  wrote:




>Second, one could make the assumption that ancient or future civilizations
>would not be hydrocarbon based. There are alternative fuel sources,
>including seabed methane, biomass and all the usual suspects -- solar,
>hydro etc. Some of these could be exploited on a decidedly low-tech (ie,
>emergent civilization) basis. However, it is difficult to conceive of an
>industrial civilization that doesn't employ wheels, axles and bearings,
>all of which require lubrication. I'm not an engineer (Robin, anyone?) but
>it's my understanding that vegetable lubrication breaks down under stress,
>and that oil or graphite lubricants are the only reasonable choices for
>high temperature/high rotation applications, at least prior to extremely
>advanced modes of chemical synthesis.

This is a good point. There are a lot of alternatives to hydrocarbon
products derived from petroleum, but these have often been developed as
a replacement for petroleum after the technology has been established -
there is a growing industry in plant-derived plastics and lubricants,
but this is to replicate materials that have been previously created 
much more easily within the petrochemical industry.

Vegetable-derived lubricants have been used. The Russians used sunflower
oil in the lubrication systems of tanks and trucks during the second world 
war, and work is being done in the UK to produce diesel fuel derived from
waste cooking oil from fast-food restaurants. 

Jay's correct in his opinion that vegetable oil is not as durable as 
petroleum oil, but this is only because of the lack of sophistication 
of the chemistry involved. Synthetic fuels and lubricants are continuously
being developed, and I don't see any problems with synthetics ultimately 
matching the performance of the more conventional products. As the rock
oil runs out, plant oil derivatives *will* be developed to fill the
gap. In parallel, changes will occur in the designs of the machines to 
cope with any changes in performance of the lubricants.

My big concern is if the technology were ever to be lost for some reason.
Re-creating a petrochemical industry from scratch without petrochemicals
(that is, going immediately to plant-based synthetics) would be extremely 
difficult, especially if it were necessary to recreate *all* of the
petrochemical-derived products (not just lubricants and fuels). I suspect
that, bearing in mind the ingenuity of the human race, it would happen,
just at a different pace. Imagine an industrial revollution based on,
for example, methane from pig manure, or diesel oil from sunflowers.

All we would then have to do is get used to all the machines smelling
like pig farms and fish and chip shops...

Robin Hill, STEAMY BESS, Brough, East Yorkshire



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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:24:34 +0100
Subject: [zzzzteana] Cambodian Buddhaas unearthed
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/2220132.stm

Tuesday, 27 August, 2002, 21:35 GMT 22:35 UK
Cambodia temple ruins yield treasure

Workers clearing dense jungle near the ruins of an ancient pagoda in
northern Cambodia have unearthed 31 Buddha statues - 27 of them solid gold.
The statues - which are 10 centimetres (4 inches) tall - are in good
condition and believed to be hundreds of years old.
They were found on Saturday as workers were rebuilding the Po Pich temple
about 100 km (65miles) north of the capital, Phnom Penh.
The pagoda, in the Batay district of Kampong Thom province, was torn down
during the reign of the Khmer Rouge in the 1970s and the area became
overgrown.
Community care
Deputy police chief of Kampong Thom province, Hang Sithim, said the statues
- three of which were silver and one bronze - were buried in about one metre
(3.4ft) of earth and each weigh around 500 grams (1lb).
''I think that these Buddha statues had been buried hundreds of years ago,
when the last temple was fully operating," Mr Hang Sithim said.
Provincial authorities initially planned to take the statues to a nearby
town for safekeeping, but opted to allow the Buddhist community at the
temple to take care of them.
''We believe they are safe there,'' said Som Somphat, deputy governor of
Kampong Thom province.
''The people of Po Pich pledged to treat them with respect and honour.''
Reign of terror
A police guard has been placed around the site to protect it from looters.
The Khmer Rouge waged civil war in Cambodia between 1970 and 1998 and
controlled the country between 1975 and 1979.
The regime outlawed religion and destroyed many objects regarded as decadent
or culturally impure.
About two million people died in the Khmer Rouge's drive to turn Cambodia
into a farmers' utopia.
 

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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:28:35 +0100
Subject: [zzzzteana] Height, weight, girth, etc
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,781616,00.html

Britons stand tall, if slightly heavy, in Europe

John Carvel, social affairs editor
Wednesday August 28, 2002
The Guardian

Not every European dimension has been harmonised in Brussels yet. According
to the Department for Trade and Industry, the average Briton stands head,
shoulders, girth and bottoms above their continental partners.
The figures come in a new edition of the department's handbook of
anthropometric and strength measurements, compiled by ergonomists at the
University of Nottingham to help manufacturers design products to fit
people's shape.
The volume provides 294 measurements ranging from the distance between the
inner corners of the eyes to the length of the leg between the crease below
the buttock to the crease at the back of the knee.
It has discovered that the average British man is 36 millimetres (1 inches)
taller than his French counterpart.
The mean height of UK citizens is 1,755.1mm (5ft 9in). Among European men
only the Dutch are taller, averaging 1,795mm and with a clear height
advantage over the US men's average of 1,760.4.
The average British woman is 1,620mm tall (just under 5ft 4in), compared
with 1,604mm for her French counterpart, 1,610mm for the Italians and
1,619mm for the Germans. Swedish women average 1,640mm, Dutch 1,650mm and
Americans 1,626.7mm
More disturbingly, British men and women are heavier than all the other
nationalities except the Americans, averaging 79.75 kilos for British men
and 66.7 for women.
The average British woman has a chest measurement of 1,007.8mm (39.7
inches), compared with 965mm for the Italians, 912.6mm for the Japanese and
806mm for Sri Lankans. American women also top this scale with an average of
1,047.2mm.
The average British woman's waist is 840.6mm (33 inches) - also second
largest behind the Americans. But her bottom at 873.7mm is considerably
smaller than the Italians at 916mm who beat the Americans into second place.
The average British male foot is 266.8mm long (10.5 inches), 6mm longer than
the French and Germans, 3mm more than the Italians and 1mm more than the
Swedes. But they are just beaten by the Americans at 267.8mm and massively
outstripped by the Dutch at 275mm.
However Dutch women have daintier feet than the British, averaging 240mm
compared with 241.1mm in the UK (9.5 inches). German women average 242mm,
compared with 245mm for the Swedes and 242.1mm for the Americans.
The DTI has a less than exhaustive record of ring finger lengths, but on the
available evidence the British man's finger at 78.7mm (3.1 inches) is 1.7mm
longer than his German counterpart, but 0.2mm shorter than the American
average.
The British woman's ring finger at 72.6mm is 0.4mm smaller than her German
counterpart and 0.3mm smaller than the American.
Beverley Norris, research fellow at Nottingham university's institute for
occupational ergonomics, said the figures were useful for product designers.
The department has recently completed a study of the pulling force needed to
open ring pull cans.

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0222.160c5b2e2a80f71367b4d9a47f8f9d4e.eml000066400000000000000000000160171444326627400312060ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: martin@srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk  Wed Aug 28 10:54:40 2002
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:31:57 +0100
Subject: [zzzzteana] Emigrate to Russia? That's a steppe too far
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The Electronic Telegraph

 Emigrate to Russia? That's a steppe too far
 (Filed: 28/08/2002) 
 
 
 So you think you've got it bad: fed up with Folkestone, bored with Birmingham
 or sick of Sheffield.
 
 Those 54 per cent of Britons - according to a Daily Telegraph/YouGov survey
 this week - who dream of a stress-free life in sunnier climes should perhaps
 heed a word of friendly advice on the realities of living abroad.
 
 Kommersant, a Russian daily newspaper, yesterday offered those dissatisfied
 with life in Blair's Britain a taste of what to expect should they choose to
 emigrate to provincial Russia.
 
 After reading about the gripes of affluent Britons, its tongue-in-cheek
 article admitted, however, that the grass was not always greener on the other
 side.
 
 "The inhabitants of foggy Albion keen to travel could go to any Russian city
 deep in the provinces where things are quiet," said Kommersant.
 
 "In any central Russian district, life, by British standards, is unseemingly
 cheap and remarkably laid back. By 11am most of the working population are
 becoming 'traditionally' relaxed."
 
 The time for elevenses in Britain - perhaps the opportunity for a quiet cup of
 tea and a chocolate Hobnob - is known in Russia as the Wolf Hour.
 
 It was so named in Soviet times because at 11am a wolf appeared from the
 famous animal clock at the Obrasov Puppet Theatre in Moscow. It is also
 opening time in the nation's vodka shops.
 
 And the vodka, like all other spirits, is cheap. Kommersant pointed out that
 "the money a Briton can earn from selling even the most shabby house would be
 enough to support them at the local standard of living for the rest of their
 life.
 
 "The local shops are full of all they would need and they could buy a bottle
 of whisky for kopecks."
 
 There are 100 kopecks in a ruble and the ruble is currently worth about a
 halfpenny in sterling.
 
 The whisky is cheap, however, because it is unlike anything the average Briton
 will have consumed before. It is made of samagon - home-distilled, moonshine
 vodka - coloured with tea, and is a popular beverage in rural areas and among
 diehard alcoholics.
 
 While alcohol is plentiful and cheap, food may not be so easy to come by. The
 newspaper pointed out that traditional British foodstuffs - it selected oxtail
 soup as an example - were in short supply. However, the wealth of the British
 settler should overcome the difficulty.
 
 "For a modest reward in most Russian villages, the locals would happily cut
 off the tails from the entire collective farm's herd of cattle."
 
 One or two potential emigr�s might be deterred by language difficulties. There
 are few English speakers to be found among the green hills of Tula on the
 Mongolian border.
 
 However, Kommersant pointed out, language difficulties were not considered a
 deterrent by the 13 per cent of Britons who nominated France as the country in
 which they would like to live.
 
 France, the Russian paper claimed, was a country "where English is only known
 by the beggars, Belorussian prostitutes and Russian tourists".
 
 Despite the low cost of living and the easy-going lifestyle, the Russian
 weather remains a major stumbling block for Britons.
 
 Even in the most temperate regions, winter temperatures of -20C are common.
 And somewhere like the Sakha Republic - east of Siberia and the coldest place
 in the world - enjoys just one month of summer and endures winter temperatures
 that drop below -70C. Houses are built on concrete stilts because the
 permafrost makes digging foundations impossible.
 
 Again, the Russian paper had a word of reassurance. While acknowledging the
 climatic problems, it said that "thanks to global warming this difficulty will
 solve itself".
 
 Kommersant also had an answer to the labour crisis that would be created in
 Britain if 54 per cent of its citizens decided to opt for a life in Russia.
 
 "Thirty-three million Russians could be sent to Britain to replace the 33
 million who leave. We think that the required number could probably be found
 amongst our citizens."
 
 Unfortunately for those 33 million Russians, however, not one of those Britons
 surveyed who wanted to move abroad nominated the Russian steppes as their
 preferred new home.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0223.a009cff7a913fae0e58d901e5e847a82.eml000066400000000000000000000125461444326627400312670ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: martin@srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk  Wed Aug 28 10:54:46 2002
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:33:16 +0100
Subject: [zzzzteana] Six arrested for attacking Palio jockey who defected
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The Electronic Telegraph

 Six arrested for attacking Palio jockey who defected 
 By Bruce Johnston in Rome
 (Filed: 28/08/2002) 
 
 
 Police waded into the intrigues and enmities surrounding the Palio, Siena's
 traditional bareback horse race, for the first time yesterday, arresting six
 people for beating up a star jockey who defected to a rival team.
 
 
 Angry spectators attack Giuseppe Pes at the Palio horse race in Siena 
 Giuseppe Pes, a champion jockey of Sardinian extraction who has won the Palio
 nine times in 38 runs, was closely associated with the Istrice, or Porcupine,
 contrada - section of town - until the race earlier this month.
 
 Istrice did not have a horse in the contest - only 10 of the 17 contradas take
 part in each Palio - but, despite promises to the contrary, moments before the
 off Mr Pes mounted the horse of Lupa, or She-Wolf.
 
 Lupa are Istrice's historic rivals, and the defection was not taken well. Lupa
 did not win, victory going instead to Tartuca, tortoise.
 
 As its supporters erupted into joyous celebrations, Mr Pes was pulled from his
 mount by Istrice members and savagely beaten and kicked for seven minutes.
 
 Mr Pes, 39, whose jacket with his contrada's colours was torn from his back,
 was sent to hospital with fractures, cuts and bruises.
 
 Three of his attendants who tried to intervene were also beaten. Police
 yesterday arrested six people they said had been identified as the attackers
 from video footage.
 
 Experts said it was the first time that members of a contrada - known as
 contradaioli - had been arrested for beating up a jockey, despite the fact
 that such episodes belong to the race's ancient traditions.
 
 The Palio, which was first raced in the 14th century, is held twice a year on
 the cobbles of Siena's main square. For weeks beforehand supporters parade
 through the city, singing, waving flags and wearing their contrada colours.
 But by the day of the race the good humour evaporates.
 
 The event has no rules and is prepared for and run amid an extraordinary
 undercurrent of intrigue and even violence. Jockeys may swap sides at the last
 minute, take bribes, and whip rivals' horses, and more, so long as they do not
 grab their reins.
 
 The origins of the contrada lie in the Middle Ages, when the neighbourhoods'
 boundaries were set out to aid the many mercenary companies hired to defend
 Siena's fiercely earned independence from Florence and other city states.
 
 The first Palio of the year takes place on July 2, to commemorate the miracles
 of the Madonna of Provenzano, and a second race on Aug 16 marks the feast of
 the Assumption of the Virgin.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0224.17430432fb67f4f3278eac9cba4714aa.eml000066400000000000000000000220231444326627400311630ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: timc@2ubh.com  Wed Aug 28 10:54:56 2002
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:33:47 +0100
Subject: [zzzzteana] That wacky imam
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http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcast/comment/0,7493,781769,00.html

Hamza's horrid - but we must tolerate him

Rod Liddle
Wednesday August 28, 2002
The Guardian

Sheikh Abu Hamza al-Masri, our maddest of mad mullahs and a cartoon bogeyman
to scare the kiddies, spent a quiet and contemplative bank holiday playing
with his own children in Victoria Park, Hackney.
I've often wondered what incendiary Islamic fundamentalist clerics do on
statutory public holidays. Head for the beach and maybe swing by B&Q on the
way home, I had hoped. I had this beguiling vision of Hamza paddling in the
sea, an ice-cream cone in his one good hand, the waves tickling his shins,
and the sheikh mentally preparing to fix those pesky shelves in the kitchen
for once, instead of planning the extermination of Zionism and America and
maybe me and you, too.
But B&Q and a day at the seaside is probably beyond Hamza's budget since the
Bank of England froze his assets, so Victoria Park had to do. But he sounded
happy enough when I spoke to him, with the babble of tiny, cheerful, Islamic
proto-warriors in the background.
You must know Hamza; he's the imam designed, it would seem, by the Daily
Mail's cartoonist Mac. Large metal hook in place of a left hand. One eye
covered by a patch, the other a baleful, watchful, milky-white. We don't
mock the disabled any more these days, unless it's someone like Hamza whom
we don't like; then, if you'll excuse the inapt phraseology, the gloves come
off. So Hamza is known (with that vaulting imagination typical of the
British right) as "Captain Hook", in articles which usually call for his
arrest, or extradition to the US, or deportation back home to Egypt or maybe
off to Pakistan or Afghanistan, where he fought the Russians for years and
thus sustained his disabilities - anywhere, really; just out of here. And if
we can't lock him up or chuck him out of the country, maybe we can force him
to shut up.
Because we don't like Hamza very much. We weren't that fond of him before
September 11, but afterwards, in that nervy, paranoid few months when we all
thought the sky might fall in, our disapprobation turned into political
persecution.
And now the Daily Mirror is agitating again for his arrest because they've
got hold of secret videos of the man behaving in an even more inflammatory
manner, urging warfare on and looting of enemies of Islam. All out of
context, and a very long time ago, says the imam, not unduly bothered. But
perhaps he should be, because our reputation for broad-mindedness and
tolerance towards people like Hamza was thinning even before the Mirror's
scoop.
Hamza preaches, or preached, at the scary Finsbury Park Mosque - so, earlier
this year, the Charity Commissioners banned him from doing so because of his
allegedly inflammatory remarks. I didn't know Charity Commissioners were
meant to do stuff like that.
He has had his passport seized and not returned; his assets have been
frozen. He is tailed by the police every now and then, and his access to the
media is restricted by internal policing within broadcasting corporations
and the press. And this last point is because, we tell ourselves, endlessly
- repeating the mantra over and over again, and fervently wishing it to be
true - Hamza is not "representative" of British Muslims, as if British
Muslims were a simple, homogenous thing with a single voice that one could
turn to every now and then for explanation. And perhaps succour.
The trouble is, in the first month or so after the twin towers attack he was
revealed to be rather more "representative" than the list of those
government-approved Muslim spokesmen who were - uncomfortably, I suspect -
dragooned briefly into statements of support for the war against terrorism
and a blanket condemnation of the Taliban.
An opinion poll commissioned by Radio 4's Today programme revealed that an
overwhelming majority of British Muslims were against George Bush's crusade.
One in six were, to put it mildly, ambivalent about the attack on the US
(the remainder condemned the attack unequivocally). A large majority thought
the war against terrorism was a war against Islam.
Which is what Hamza said, repeatedly. But it was something that, at the
time, we didn't want to hear. Now, if you quiz the man on present policy at
home and abroad he comes across - superficially, at least - as someone from
the liberal left. No war against Iraq; Britain to become independent of US
foreign policy and attempt rapprochement with Arab states; stronger action
against Israel; mistrust of global capitalism; redistribution of wealth.
Nor is he particularly anti-semitic, so far as I can tell, although I don't
suppose he will be holidaying in Eilat this year. In yesterday's Guardian,
the chief rabbi expressed a willingness to talk to Hamza and was grateful
for the sheikh's message of condolence when a London synagogue was attacked.
Which is not to say that Hamza is a peaceable Jeffersonian democrat who has
been wilfully misrepresented: he is, without question, rather more
inflammatory in private sermons to his own people than he is in public. His
ideology is an arid and uncompromising interpretation of Islam: he would be
happy, in a truly Islamic society, to stone women to death for adultery, for
example. You and I would find many - perhaps most - of his views utterly
repellent.
And that's the point. Because Hamza is the true test of our apparent desire
to be multicultural. Multiculturalism is not, surely, the cheerful
appropriation of bits of inoffensive minority cultural behaviour by the
ruling hegemony. That is a sort of syncopated monoculturalism.
Multiculturalism is, rather, the ability of society to tolerate views that
are antithetical to the dominant culture - and maybe learn from them.
The FBI has been investigating Hamza, but, of course, has found nothing
remotely incriminating. The real reason for his vilification and persecution
is simply the pungency of his views.
It is often said that we should shut him up or arrest him because his
rhetoric increases hostility against the Muslim population generally. This
is a perfectly noble argument, but it does not wash.
You don't defuse a difficult situation by pretending it doesn't exist. And
if British Muslims - maybe a minority, maybe not - feel a growing sense of
unease or mystification at the direction of western foreign policy, it is
not because they have been led in that direction by Hamza. Shutting the man
up, therefore, won't make a difference.
It is rather as Louis MacNeice had it:
The glass is falling hour by hour, the glass will fall for ever.
But if you break the bloody glass, you won't hold up the weather.


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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:39:20 +0100
Subject: [zzzzteana] White Horse vandalised
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http://yorkshirepost.co.uk/ed/front/481722

Pro-hunt activists target top sight

ONE of Yorkshire's most famous sights yesterday became one of the first
targets in bizarre attacks on White Horse landmarks linked to the hunting
debate.
Villagers near Thirsk could not believe their eyes when they woke yesterday
to find the famous White Horse of Kilburn had acquired a rider during the
night.
In another incident, the Uffington white horse in Oxfordshire had a huntsman
and three hounds added to the ancient figure, which is thought to represent
a Celtic god or tribal symbol.
Pro-hunt activists in the Real Countryside Alliance (RCA) � a radical
alternative to the better-known Countryside Alliance � admitted
responsibility last night for targeting the two images.
The 314ft by 228ft landmark at Kilburn has been lovingly preserved since it
was carved in the limestone by schoolmaster John Hodgson and his pupils in
1857.
But during Monday night someone nailed on a massive figure of a huntsman
with a horn � which had been cut to scale out of a single piece of white
carpet. It was removed yesterday by members of Kilburn White Horse
Association, who found a Countryside Alliance badge attached to the carpet.
John Roberts of the association said: "It has obviously been very well
organised. It was a well crafted piece of kit: a figure of a huntsman with a
horn cut out of carpets.
"It was big and impressive and could be seen for miles about. They tied it
to bushes at the top and nailed it down. It caused all the stone chippings
to be pushed downwards, which will help turn the white horse grey. It will
not get another refit for another year.
"Whoever did it must have come with a vehicle � a tractor and trailer or a
lorry � because the carpet must have come in one piece. It was extremely
well planned and took several people an hour and a half to get it off."
The sculpture needs constant work because, unlike chalk horses in the south
of England, it is cut into limestone which is the wrong colour and needs
whitening.
Mr Roberts added: "The damage as such is not great but it adds to the
deterioration, which means it will need more work next time.
"We would have more sympathy if, having made the point, they would come to
take it away again because it was a major job."
Andy Wilson, chief executive of the North York Moors National Park, said:
"It is a scheduled ancient monument and the local residents are very proud
of it and go to enormous trouble to keep it white. There is also careful
consideration of what shape it should be kept with the constant growth of
vegetation so you can understand the alarm and regret at any changes. There
has not been a cut in the turf � which would be much more of a problem. It
would seem it was carefully plotted beforehand."
An RCA spokesman said: "Some people in the country are getting very
frustrated at the inaction. All we want is Ministers to take notice. Marches
don't seem to be doing anything good."
The Countryside Alliance said it did not have any part in the action.
Spokesman Adrian Yelland said: "The Countryside Alliance only ever advocates
campaigning that is lawful and dissociates itself from acts of vandalism and
regrets any damage that may have been caused by this incident."
The incident follows graffiti on road signs and motorway bridges in
Yorkshire thought to be RCA work.

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0226.aafb7854f8f17e90f7e5e5f99c54e76e.eml000066400000000000000000000110251444326627400314020ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: mephistopheles29@hotmail.com  Wed Aug 28 10:55:16 2002
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 08:45:25 -0000
Subject: [zzzzteana] Crop Idol: Crop circle competition
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>>From todays Sun:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,5-2002392050,00.html

Your vote on Crop Idol 
By OLIVER HARVEY

WELCOME to Crop Idol � your chance to choose Britain's most out-of-this-wor=
ld corn circle. 


The intricate patterns, which some say are the work of aliens, are big news=
 again thanks to the spooky new Mel Gibson film Signs.


Nine of the best are shown on the right. You can vote for your favourite by=
 clicking on the image and dialling the number shown beneath.

Calls cost only 10p, or 12 cents from the Republic of Ireland (though it ma=
y be a bit more if you contact us from other planets).

Lines close at 6pm today. We will reveal the
winner tomorrow.


Aliens ... or hoaxers?
THE debate continues to rage over the origin of crop circles.

Many believe they are simply the work of human hoaxers � while others are c=
onvinced they are made by aliens trying to communicate with us.

Crop circle enthusiasts insist that some of the designs appear so quickly a=
nd on such a vast scale that it is impossible for humans to have made them. =


Witnesses even claim to have seen balls of light moving through the fields =
on the nights that circles appear.

Researchers have found connections between some patterns and symbols from a=
ncient religions, mathematics and even music. 

Crop circles were first spotted in Britain in the early 1970s and now appea=
r throughout the world. The weird outlines are still most common in the sout=
h of England.

Theories about their cause include whirlwinds � known to circle experts as =
plasma vortexes � earth energies from ley lines or even forces from the huma=
n mind.

In the past the circles have also been blamed on mating roe deer, hedgehogs=
, helicopters and holes in the ozone layer.

Raymond Cox, Chairman of the Centre for Crop Circle Studies, said last nigh=
t: "It's a great unsolved mystery.

"We know not all crop circles are created by humans but we cannot say for s=
ure what is making them."

Plus lots of photos


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0227.95301af4d5382e2029db75a4ecf7560f.eml000066400000000000000000000063341444326627400311240ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: martin@srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk  Wed Aug 28 10:55:21 2002
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:51:47 +0100
Subject: Re: [zzzzteana] That wacky imam
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> Sheikh Abu Hamza al-Masri, our maddest of mad mullahs and a cartoon bogeyman
> to scare the kiddies, spent a quiet and contemplative bank holiday playing
> with his own children in Victoria Park, Hackney.

For an alternative, and rather more factually based, rundown on Hamza's 
career, including his belief that all non Muslims in Yemen should be murdered 
outright:

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=ia&ID=IA7201

Martin


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0228.b83f2f4ef114c69d9ca927d1082b393f.eml000066400000000000000000000120761444326627400312160ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: martin@srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk  Wed Aug 28 10:55:27 2002
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 10:14:08 +0100
Subject: [zzzzteana] It's August, and big cats are on the prowl
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The Times

 August 28, 2002
 
 It's August, and big cats are on the prowl
 By Alan Hamilton
 
 
 
 ROUND up the sheep. Pull on the gauntlets. Oil the shotgun. The British
 countryside is crawling with pumas, black panthers, fen tigers and other big,
 vicious cats. No corner of the nation is safe. Evidence released yesterday,
 including sightings, photographs, paw prints, livestock kills and hair
 samples, claims to prove that every county has big cats lurking in its
 undergrowth, poised to pounce on man and beast alike. 
 
 Sightings have reached record levels in 2002, according to Daniel Bamping,
 founder of the British Big Cats Society, which in the past 12 months has
 received more than 800 reports of big cat sightings. 
 
 �During the first six months we have seen an incredible amount of big cat
 activity. We have now had reports in every single county; the response from
 the public has been fantastic,� Mr Bamping said. �Big cats in Britain are
 real. They are out there, they are breeding; there�s more of them.� 
 
 Scotland and Gloucestershire are said to be hotspots of big cat activity. Mark
 Fraser, who heads the society�s Scottish arm, said: �Lynx are now present in
 the Scottish countryside; I believe they are established and breeding. I don�t
 want to hazard a guess at the numbers; suffice it to say there are several
 hotspots, notably Fife, Aberdeenshire, Inverness and the Borders.� 
 
 Next month the society plans to unveil its full dossier of evidence, which
 includes two dead wild cats, pictures of paw prints and tree scratchings, as
 well as stories of a horse strangely lacerated in West Wales and a man in
 Gravesham, Kent, who had to beat a hasty retreat to his garage after his hand
 was cut by a creature the size of a labrador dog, except that it had black
 hairy tufts on the tips of its ears. 
 
 The society is taking the sightings seriously. It plans to set up a network of
 trigger-cameras throughout the country to capture further evidence of the
 beasts, which it will then present to the Government. 
 
 It is not, however, clear on what it wants the Government to do about it all.
 Throwing its weight behind the pro-hunting lobby might be a start. 
 
 Next in August: record abductions by aliens.
 
 


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0229.49528f1403038d8d080420b023aa8d4f.eml000066400000000000000000000115271444326627400306660ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: skitster@hotmail.com  Wed Aug 28 10:55:28 2002
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 10:14:30 +0100
Subject: [zzzzteana] Fwd: Hill Monuments defaced to promote hunting
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The hunting community showing, yet again, how utterly out of touch they 
are....(though the anti-Esso sign on the Long Man made me smirk last week)


>From: "Carol"
>
>The white horses at Uffington and Kilburn have had hunters painted
>onto them to 'keep the pro-hunt image in the media'
>
>http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_658592.html
>
>*boggle* How can the pro-hunt people think this will help their cause?
>
>Carol


Giant horse images 'defaced by hunting activists'

Pro-hunt activists have defaced two of the country's national monuments - 
the two giant white horses - to highlight their cause

Campaigners for the Real Countryside Alliance say they targeted the two 
images, on hills in Oxfordshire and North Yorkshire, "to keep the pro-hunt 
thing in the papers".


Ananova:

Giant horse images 'defaced by hunting activists'

Pro-hunt activists have defaced two of the country's national monuments - 
the two giant white horses - to highlight their cause.



Campaigners for the Real Countryside Alliance say they targeted the two 
images, on hills in Oxfordshire and North Yorkshire, "to keep the pro-hunt 
thing in the papers".



Aerial shots show the 374ft-long Bronze Age image on the Berkshire Downs 
near Uffington in Oxfordshire complete with three white hounds and a rider.

In North Yorkshire, a rider in full hunt regalia has been added to the 300ft 
White Horse cut in to the hills at Kilburn, which dates back to the 1700s.

But no-one reported anything to the police.

A spokesman for North Yorkshire police said no reports had been received but 
he had seen "a red blob" on the horse and had sent officers to investigate.

In Uffington, no-one in the village had heard anything about the reported 
incident. A spokesman for Thames Valley police said he was not aware of any 
complaints.

Activists say the image in Oxfordshire was drawn in paint used for marking 
lines on grass tennis courts and will wash away in the first rains.


Story filed: 21:17 Tuesday 27th August 2002






Scott
"I cried for madder music and for stronger wine"
Ernest Dowson


_________________________________________________________________
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0230.a6e285288a40fccdbea8cf93de581ad2.eml000066400000000000000000000077151444326627400315050ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: Steve_Burt@cursor-system.com  Wed Aug 28 10:55:32 2002
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>JUST as the pyramids of Egypt were built in honour of great kings, it was
>fitting that sandy replicas were created on Weymouth beach in memory of the
>king of the castle. Fred Darrington, who became the world's most famous
sand
>sculptor, died last week aged 91. His grandson, Mark Anderson, who has
taken
>over his Dorset seafront pitch, is determined that his grandfather's name
will
>not be forgotten, despite the impermanence of his creations.

Can someone please tell me what a "pitch" constitutes? I have an idea 
it is somewhat like the spots street musicians claim, but this sounds 
more formal.
------------------
Just an area of the beach by the prom where he's allowed to make his
sculptures.
Weymouth is where I spent my teenage years. My mum and one sister still live
there.
So I'm pretty familiar with the sculptures; pretty impressive, and very big.
(I think he uses some sort of armature for some bits - it's not just sand)
They usually get vandalised, though; after a lot of drinks, it obviously is
a good idea to break into the enclosure and kick all the sculptures to bits.
Then again, Weymouth is pretty run down, and attracts holiday makers of the
worst sort.

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0231.1bc071b16de2cc1e2adab334be65f7c6.eml000066400000000000000000000051361444326627400314460ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: tony@svanstrom.com  Wed Aug 28 11:02:33 2002
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From: "Tony L. Svanstrom" 
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To: Robin Lynn Frank 
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	, 
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Re: patent on TMDA-like system
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On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 the voices made Robin Lynn Frank write:

> > Tony Svanstrom, on SpamAssassin-talk, noted this US patent:
> >
> > http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netah
> >tml/PTO/search-adv.html&r=62&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&s1=spam&p=2&OS=haiku&RS=spam

> I took a bit of time to review what is on the above URL.  If I were a news
> editor, the headline would be:
>
> "Inventor" from country that ignores patents and copyrights, seeks patent for
> inventing the wheel!

 The wheel is already patented in Australia; Melbourne man patents the wheel:

 


 The sad news is that there seems to be a lot of patents (pending or not)
that's for very basic/general ideas; it's the current form of "domainnapping",
and it might turn uggly when people start trying to enfoce these patents.


	/Tony
-- 
# Per scientiam ad libertatem! // Through knowledge towards freedom! #
# Genom kunskap mot frihet! =*= (c) 1999-2002 tony@svanstrom.com =*= #

     perl -e'print$_{$_} for sort%_=`lynx -dump svanstrom.com/t`'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0232.12e1f1709e19a9dcd8a0bc051ceeb2c4.eml000066400000000000000000000152301444326627400313710ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Aug 28 10:50:03 2002
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To: Mike Masnick 
Cc: "Adam L. Beberg" , Tom ,
	
Subject: Re: The GOv gets tough on Net Users.....er Pirates..
References: 
    <5.1.1.6.0.20020826113243.034de5d0@techdirt.com>
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
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>>>>> "M" == Mike Masnick  writes:

    M> In which world are we talking about?  That may be true for the
    M> first sale, but once something is out in the world, the
    M> "creator" loses control... If I buy a chair you built, and then
    M> decide to give it away to my neighbor, by you're definition, he
    M> just stole from you.

I don't endorse the whole RIAA thing, but to be accurate, you would
have to duplicate the chair so that both you and your neighbour could
continue to sit down, and yes, I suppose that would be more serious.

They can sit on /your/ copy, but if you start churning out exact dups
of a name-brand artifact, people with law degrees start to smell
money.  For example, I could copy a Gibson Guitar /exactly/ so long as
(a) I don't put Orville's name on the headstock and (b) I license the
patented bracing methods.  If I instead try to sell a homebuilt guitar
on eBay with "Gibson" written in crayon on the headstock, and then
claim it is a true Les Paul limited edition, I expect people would get
upset.

    M> Why is it that people don't understand that giving stuff away
    M> is a perfectly acceptable tactic in capitalist businesses?  

To play the Devil's Advocate here, it's not about giving /stuff/ away,
it is about granting endless and cascading duplication/distribution
rights.  Even if _I_ only make the copy I give to you, that doesn't
stop you from making 10000 copies to sell.

    M> Access to free stuff often helps to sell other stuff.  

This is the difficult question:  How will they draw the distinction?
The "other stuff" is just as easy to duplicate as the free stuff.
This is why MS is hunting people with illegal Windows; it's no harder
to dup than a Linux CD, only what is there that actually prevents
people from doing it?

Personally, I don't think the issue should have anything to do with
sales or units.  The issue is that basic phallacy that says a suit
should be able to "own" someone else's intellectual property.  Sarah
McLaughlin isn't suing you, it's her label's legal dept because it's
the label who stands to lose; Sarah's already fat beyond her wildest
dreams, so a few bucks here or there, or even if the well dried up
tomorrow, it's not going to really traumatize her (unless she's been
blazingly stupid with her money)

But the label ... like Disney and Mickey, they need the cash cow so
they can keep all sorts of uncreative hangers-on in limos and coke.
If you thought only Elvis or Brian Jones or Dennis Wilson had problems
with beautiful-people deadbeat leech "friends" draining their riches,
think again.

The problem is really very simple because it is semantic, and until we
make the semantic flip, it's unsolvable, but like trisecting an angle,
all it takes is looking at the same situation in a different
way.  Here's the revelation: Elvis never ever made a hit record.

Elvis didn't make the hits, his /fans/ made the hits.  His fans did
the work cleaning toilets, manning the convenience stores, driving
milk trucks, sitting at endless office desks, they did the /real/
labour that paid for every last one of Elvis Presley's pills.  All
Elvis did was sing into a microphone every so often, and pen or
collect the odd song that all those /people/ liked and wanted as
something of their own.  But it's not _Elvis_ who made them universal
statements, it is the universe of fans who slurped the songs into
their own lives, it was pull-technology, not push.

Therefore the question becomes: how many times must these fans pay
before they own what they themselves have created?  They pay royalties
for listening to the radio, for blank tapes, for concert tickets, for
a beer in a bar with a cover band ... they pay over and over and over
again for the /right/ to make some hack writer's song /their/
favourite song????  That's where the whole system has been seriously
warped by the record companies and ad companies reframing it into your
thinking that it is the Elvis who makes the Elvis.  It's not.  It's
the people who make them; the songs are already theirs.

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy  TeleDynamics Communications Inc
 Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)


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> Ultimately, there was a big
> disagreement about how to sell the product (sales guys wanted to sell
> the thing for a gazillion dollars to megaclients, but we thought it
> would make more sense to get more people using it so we could get more
> feedback from many different places).  The bottom line was that the
> route we wound up going (megaclients for megabucks) had a megalong
> sales cycle.  The sales force staffed up and tried to sell the
> earliest releases of the software -- even succeeding in a few
> significant cases -- but couldn't get enough to cover their own
> expenses, much less the actual development of the product.

Now where have I seen that before.... oh yeah... its happening to me right
now...



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0234.4d23ca5049f3349529f5612ab5e2120d.eml000066400000000000000000000072621444326627400307470ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Aug 28 10:50:15 2002
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To: 
Subject: Re: The GOv gets tough on Net Users.....er Pirates..
References: 
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
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Date: 27 Aug 2002 13:30:53 -0400

>>>>> "A" == Adam L Beberg  writes:

    A> I'm not displeased you're trying to help, just frustrated that
    A> employers can demand such rediculous combinations of skills
    A> with insane years of experience.

>>>From my 25+ years in the playing field, IMHO the art of job-hunting
(for those not yet de-jobbed) is the art of getting past the HR-stage
interview and into the engineer-to-engineer interview.  HR is not
being honest with you so there's no ethical quandry to be totally
honest with them: If they want experience numbers that would place you
in the OAK project, lead them to believe that you have "something
roughly equivalent" (ie "it wasn't 5 years, but it was three intense
years with plenty of overtime") -- they are playing a bluff in saying
/they/ know the job requirements so you're perfectly within poker
rules to bluff back to say you have it.

If you /don't/ have the requisite Right Stuff, the engineers can
usually suss it out pretty fast during the second interview.  Most
often, their choice is based 90% on "who can I work with" and only
maybe 10% on "how much/little will we have to tutor this candidate?"

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy  TeleDynamics Communications Inc
 Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0235.3c824d680d31b3710d8f3475730dc42d.eml000066400000000000000000000533301444326627400307520ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Aug 28 10:50:30 2002
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Subject: DataPower announces XML-in-silicon
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No analysis yet... don't know what to make of it yet. But here's the raw 
bits for all to peruse and check out what's really going on... Best, 
Rohit

===========================================================

DataPower delivers XML acceleration device
By�Scott Tyler Shafer
August 27, 2002 5:46 am PT

DATAPOWER TECHNOLOGY ON Monday unveiled its network device designed 
specifically to process XML data. Unlike competing solutions that 
process XML data in software, DataPower's device processes the data in 
hardware -- a technology achievement that provides greater performance, 
according to company officials.

The new device, dubbed DataPower XA35 XML Accelerator, is the first in a 
family of products expected from the Cambridge, Mass.-based startup. The 
DataPower family is based on a proprietary processing core technology 
called XG3 that does the analysis, parsing, and processing of the XML 
data.

According to Steve Kelly, CEO of DataPower, the XA35 Accelerator was 
conceived to meet the steady adoption of XML, the anticipated future 
proliferation of Web services, and as a means to share data between two 
businesses.

"Our vision is to build out an XML-aware infrastructure," Kelly said. 
"The XA35 is the first of a family."

Kelly explained that converting data into XML increases the file size up 
to 20 times. This, he said, makes processing the data very taxing on 
application servers; DataPower believes an inline device is the best 
alternative.

In addition to the large file sizes, security is also of paramount 
importance in the world of XML.

"Today's firewalls are designed to inspect HTTP traffic only," Kelly 
said. "A SOAP packet with XML will go straight through a firewall. 
Firewalls are blind to XML today."

Future products in DataPowers family will focus more specifically on 
security, especially as Web services proliferate, Kelly said.

According to DataPower, most existing solutions to offload XML 
processing are homegrown and done in software -- an approach the company 
itself tried initially and found to be inadequate with regards to speed 
and security. After trying the software path, the company turned to 
creating a solution that would process XML in hardware.

"Our XG3 execution core converts XML to machine code," said Kelly, 
adding that to his knowledge no other company's solution does. Kelly 
said in the next few months he expects the market to be flooded with 
technologies that claim to do XML processing -- claims that he believes 
will be mostly false.
Other content-aware switches, such as SSL (secure socket layer) 
accelerators and load balancers, look at the first 64 bytes of a packet, 
while the XA35 provides deeper packet inspection, looking at 1,400 bytes 
and thus enabling greater processing of XML data, Kelly explained.

The 1U-high network device has been tested against a large collection of 
XML and XSL data types and can learn new flavors of the markup language 
as they pass through the device.

The XA35 can be deployed in proxy mode behind a firewall and a load 
balancer, and it will inspect all traffic that passes and will identify 
and process those packets that are XML, Kelly said.

In addition to proxy mode, the device can also be used as an application 
co-processor. This deployment method gives administrators more granular 
control over what data is inspected and the application server itself 
controls the device.

DataPower is not the only company chasing this emerging market. Startup 
Sarvega, based in Burr Ridge, Ill., introduced the Sarvega XPE switch in 
May, and earlier this month Tarari, an Intel spin-off, launched with a 
focus on content processing and acceleration.
The DataPower device is now available, priced starting at $54,995. The 
company has announced one customer to date and says the product is in 
field trails at a number of other enterprises.

=========================================================================

DataPower has been addressing enterprise networking needs since it was 
founded in early 1999 by Eugene Kuznetsov, a technology visionary who 
foresaw the adverse effects XML and other next generation protocols 
would have on enterprise networks. Long before industry interest in XML 
grew, Kuznetsov assembled a team of world-class M.I.T. engineers and 
designed the industry's first solutions to address the unique 
requirements for processing XML. The first such solution was a software 
interpreter called DGXT. This software-based approach to XML processing 
is still licensed by many companies for use in their own products today.

Leveraging the detailed knowledge and customer experience gained from 
developing software-based accelerators, Kuznetsov's team raised the bar 
and designed a system for processing XML in purpose-built hardware. In 
2001, DataPower's effort produced XML Generation Three (XG3�), the 
industry's fastest technology for XML processing, bar none.

Today, XG3� technology powers the industry's first wire-speed XML 
network devices, enabling secure, high-speed applications and XML Web 
Services. While other companies are just now marketing first versions of 
products, DataPower is delivering its third generation of technology, 
providing an immediate return on technology investments to 
industry-leading customers and partners.

DataPower's M.I.T. heritage is complemented by a management team that 
brings decades of experience in the networking and computing industries, 
drawing veteran leaders from several successful companies including 
Akamai, Argon, Cascade, Castle Networks, Sycamore and Wellfleet.

=========================================================================

DataPower Technology Secures $9.5 Million in Funding

Venrock Associates, Mobius Venture Capital and Seed Capital Back Pioneer 
in XML-Aware Networking for Web Services

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. - July 8, 2002 - DataPower Technology, Inc., the 
leading provider of XML-Aware network infrastructure, today announced 
that it has secured $9.5 million in series B financing. Investors for 
this round include Venrock Associates, Mobius Venture Capital and Seed 
Capital Partners. Michael Tyrrell, of Venrock, Bill Burnham, of Mobius, 
and Jeff Fagnan, of Seed Capital, have joined DataPower�s Board of 
Directors.

DataPower will use this funding to accelerate development, marketing and 
sales of the company�s breakthrough technology for XML-Aware networking. 
Founded in 1999, DataPower invented the world�s first intelligent XML 
networking�devices, capable of transforming XML traffic and transactions 
at the wire-speed enterprises need to effectively embrace Web services 
and other XML-centric initiatives. DataPower�s solutions are based on 
its patent-pending XML Generation Three (XG3�) technology.

"Enterprises are adopting XML at rapid rate to facilitate inter-and 
intra-company communications but their network infrastructure is ill 
prepared to support the requirements of this new traffic type. 
DataPower�s XML-acceleration devices enable the wirespeed processing of 
XML that is required to support next generation enterprise 
applications," said Eugene Kuznetsov, CTO and founder of DataPower 
Technology.

"DataPower gives companies the ability to use XML that�s critical to Web 
services projects without sacrificing an ounce of performance." A single 
DataPower acceleration engine delivers the processing power of 10 
servers�breaking the performance bottleneck associated with XML 
processing and delivering an extraordinary return on investment. In 
addition, the DataPower platform provides enhanced XML security, 
protection against XML-based denial-of-service attacks, connection of 
e-business protocols for incompatible XML data streams, load balancing 
between back-end servers and real-time statistics reports.

"In the post-bubble economy, technology investment decisions require 
laser-focused scrutiny. DataPower�s patent-pending technology addresses 
a very real and growing pain point for enterprises," said Michael 
Tyrrell of Venrock Associates. "By turbo-charging their networks with 
DataPower�s unique XML-Aware networking technology, companies will be 
free to adopt next generation Web services without encountering 
performance and security pitfalls."

"We looked long and hard for a company capable of addressing the rapidly 
growing problems surrounding XML message processing performance and 
security," said Bill Burnham of Mobius Venture Capital. "DataPower is on 
their third generation of technology. Their patent pending XML 
Generation Three (XG3)�technology was quite simply the single most 
compelling technology solution we have seen to date."

"XML is not a nice-to-have, it is a must have for enterprises serious 
about optimizing application efficiency. Since 1999, DataPower has been 
developing solutions to facilitate enterprise use of XML and Web 
services," said Jeff Fagnan of Seed Capital Partners. "DataPower�s 
XML-acceleration devices are a key requirement for enterprises that rely 
on XML for mission critical applications."

About Venrock Associates
Venrock Associates was founded as the venture capital arm of the 
Rockefeller Family and continues a tradition of funding entrepreneurs 
that now spans over seven decades. Laurance S. Rockefeller pioneered 
early stage venture financing in the 1930s. With over 300 investments 
over a span of more than 70 years, the firm has an established a track 
record of identifying and supporting promising early stage, technology- 
based enterprises. As one of most experienced venture firms in the 
United States, Venrock maintains a tradition of collaboration with 
talented entrepreneurs to establish successful, enduring companies. 
Venrock's continuing goal is to create long-term value by assisting 
entrepreneurs in building companies from the formative stages. Their 
consistent focus on Information Technology and Life Sciences-related 
opportunities provides a reservoir of knowledge and a network of 
contacts that have proven to be a catalyst for the growth of developing 
organizations. Venrock's investments have included CheckPoint Software, 
USinternetworking, Caliper Technologies, Illumina, Niku, DoubleClick, 
Media Metrix, 3COM, Intel, and Apple Computer. With offices in New York 
City, Cambridge, MA, and Menlo Park, CA, Venrock is well positioned to 
respond to opportunities in any locale. For more information on Venrock 
Associates, please visit www.venrock.com

About Mobius Venture Capital
Mobius Venture Capital, formerly SOFTBANK Venture Capital, is a $2.5 
billion U.S.-based private equity venture capital firm managed by an 
unparalleled team of former CEOs and entrepreneurs, technology pioneers, 
senior executives from major technology corporations, and leaders from 
the investment banking community. Mobius Venture Capital specializes 
primarily in early-stage investments in the areas of: communications 
systems software and services; infrastructure software and services; 
professional services; enterprise applications; healthcare informatics; 
consumer and small business applications; components; and emerging 
technologies. Mobius Venture Capital combines its technology expertise 
and broad financial assets with the industry's best entrepreneurs to 
create a powerhouse portfolio of over 100 of the world's leading high 
technology companies. Mobius Venture Capital can be contacted by 
visiting their web site www.mobiusvc.com.

About Seed Capital Partners
Seed Capital Partners is an early-stage venture fund affiliated with 
SoftBank Corporation, one of the world's leading Internet market forces. 
Seed Capital manages funds focused primarily on companies addressing 
Internet-enabled business-to-business digital information technology 
opportunities, which are located in the Northeastern U.S., the 
southeastern region of the Province of Ontario, Canada, and Israel. Seed 
Capital�s portfolio includes Spearhead Technologies, Concentric Visions 
and CompanyDNA. For more information on Seed Capital Partners, please 
visit www.seedcp.com.

About DataPower Technology
DataPower Technology provides enterprises with intelligent XML-Aware 
network infrastructure to ensure unparalleled performance, security and 
manageability of next-generation protocols. DataPower�s patent-pending 
XML Generation Three (XG3�) technology powers the industry�s first 
wirespeed XML network devices, enabling secure, high-speed applications 
and XML Web Services. Founded in 1999, DataPower is now delivering its 
third generation of technology, providing immediate return on technology 
investments to industry-leading customers and partners. DataPower is 
privately held and based in Cambridge, MA. Investors include Mobius 
Venture Capital, Seed Capital Partners, and Venrock Associates.

CONTACT:

DataPower Technology, Inc.
Kieran Taylor
617-864-0455
kieran@datapower.com

Schwartz Communications
John Moran/Heather Chichakly
781-684-0770
datapower@schwartz-pr.com

========================================================================

Steve Kelly, chairman and CEO

During over twenty years in the technology industry, Steve Kelly has 
built and managed global enterprise networks, provided consulting 
services to Fortune 50 businesses, and been involved in the launch of 
several start-ups. Prior to DataPower, Kelly was an 
entrepreneur-in-residence at Venrock Associates, and was co-founder of 
Castle Networks, where he led the company's sales, service and marketing 
functions. Castle was acquired by Siemens AG in 1999 to create Unisphere 
Networks, which was subsequently purchased by Juniper Networks. Kelly 
was an early contributor at Cascade Communications, where he built and 
managed the company's core switching business; Cascade's annual revenues 
grew from $2 million to $300 million annually during Kelly's tenure. 
Kelly also worked at Digital Equipment Corporation where he managed and 
grew their corporate network to 50,000+ nodes in 28 countries, the 
largest in the world at the time. Kelly has a B.S. in Information 
Systems from Bentley College.

Eugene Kuznetsov, founder, president and CTO

Eugene Kuznetsov is a technology visionary that has been working to 
address enterprise XML issues since the late 90s. Kuznetsov founded 
DataPower Technology, Inc. in 1999 to provide enterprises with an 
intelligent, XML-aware network infrastructure to support next-generation 
applications. Prior to starting DataPower, Kuznetsov led the Java JIT 
Compiler effort for Microsoft Internet Explorer for Macintosh 4.0. He 
was also part of the team which developed one of the first clean room 
Java VM's. This high-speed runtime technology was licensed by some of 
the industry's largest technology companies, including Apple Computer. 
He has consulted to numerous companies and worked on a variety of 
hardware and software engineering problems in the areas of memory 
management, power electronics, optimized execution engines and 
application integration. Kuznetsov holds a B.S. in electrical 
engineering from MIT.

Steve Willis, vice president of advanced technology

Steve Willis is an accomplished entrepreneur and a pioneer in protocol 
optimization. Prior to joining DataPower, Willis was co-founder and CTO 
of Argon Networks, a provider of high-performance switching routers that 
was acquired by Siemens AG in 1999 to create Unisphere Networks; 
Unisphere was subsequently purchased by Juniper Networks. Before Argon, 
Steve was vice president of advanced technology at Bay Networks (now 
Nortel Networks) where he led both IP and ATM-related technology 
development and managed a group that generated 24 patent applications, 
developed a 1 Mbps forwarding engine and led the specification of the 
ATM Forum's PNNI routing protocol. Most notably, Steve was co-founder, 
original software director and architect for Wellfleet Communications, a 
leading pioneer of multi-protocol routers. Wellfleet was rated as the 
fastest growing company in the U.S. for two consecutive years by Fortune 
magazine. Willis is currently a member of the Institute of Electrical 
and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) and the Internet Research Task Force 
(IRTF) Routing Research Group. Willis has a B.D.I.C. in Computer Science 
from the University of Massachusetts.

Bill Tao, vice president of engineering

With a vast understanding of network optimization technologies and 
extensive experience in LAN and WAN networking, Bill Tao brings over 25 
years of critical knowledge to lead DataPower's engineering efforts. 
Prior to DataPower, Tao was the vice president of engineering for 
Sycamore Networks, developing a family of metro/regional optical network 
switches. He is also well acquainted with network optimization 
techniques as he was previously vice president of engineering at 
InfoLibria, where he led development and software quality assurance 
engineering for a family of network caching products. Tao has held 
senior engineering positions at NetEdge, Proteon, Codex and Wang. Tao 
received a B.S. in Electrical Engineering from the University of 
Connecticut and an M.S. in Computer Science from the University of 
Illinois.

Kieran Taylor, director of product marketing

Kieran Taylor has an accomplished record as a marketing professional, 
industry analyst and journalist. Prior to joining DataPower, Taylor was 
the director of product management and marketing for Akamai Technologies 
(NASDAQ: AKAM). As an early contributor at Akamai, he helped develop the 
company's initial positioning and led the technical development and 
go-to-market activities for Akamai's flagship EdgeSuite service. 
Taylor's early contribution helped position the service provider to 
secure a $12.6 billion IPO. He has also held senior marketing management 
positions at Nortel Networks, Inc. and Bay Networks. Taylor was 
previously an analyst at TeleChoice, Inc. and the Wide Area Networks 
editor for Data Communications, a McGraw Hill publication. Taylor holds 
a B.A. in Print Journalism from the Pennsylvania State University School 
of Communications.

=================================================================
Board of Advisors

Mark Hoover
Mark Hoover is President and co-founder of Acuitive, Inc., a start-up 
accelerator. With over 20 years experience in the networking industry, 
Hoover's expertise spans product development, marketing, and business 
development. Before launching Acuitive, Hoover worked at AT&T Bell 
Laboratories, AT&T Computer Systems, SynOptics, and Bay Networks, where 
he played a role in the development of key technologies, such as 
10-BASET, routing, FDDI, ATM, Ethernet switching, firewall, Internet 
traffic management, and edge WAN switch industries.

George Kassabgi
Currently Vice President of Engineering at BEA Systems, Mr. Kassabgi has 
held executive-level positions in engineering, sales and marketing, and 
has spearheaded leading-edge developments in the application server 
marketplace since 1996. He is widely known for his regular speaking 
engagements at JavaOne, as well as columns and contributions in JavaPro, 
Java Developer's Journal and other publications. In addition to being a 
venerated Java expert, George Kassabgi holds a patent on SmartObject 
Technology, and authored the technical book Progress V8.

Marshall T. Rose
Marshall T. Rose runs his own firm, Dover Beach Consulting, Inc. He 
formerly held the position of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) 
Area Director for Network Management, one of a dozen individuals who 
oversaw the Internet's standardization process. Rose is the author of 
several professional texts on subjects such as Internet Management, 
Electronic Mail, and Directory Services, which have been published in 
four languages. He is well known for his implementations of core 
Internet technologies (such as POP, SMTP, and SNMP) and OSI technologies 
(such as X.500 and FTAM). Rose received a PhD in Information and 
Computer Science from the University of California, Irvine, in 1984.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0236.8af79b4e6416a984668d3f9c272a2822.eml000066400000000000000000000074021444326627400310070ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Aug 28 10:50:29 2002
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From: "John Hall" 
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Subject: RE: The Curse of India's Socialism
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> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
James
> Rogers

> Subject: Re: The Curse of India's Socialism
> 
> On Tue, 2002-08-20 at 15:01, Ian Andrew Bell wrote:

> > They
> > finished their routine with the a quadruple lutz -- laying off
> > hundreds of thousands of workers when it all came crashing down.
> 
> So what?  Nobody is guaranteed employment.  Laying people off is not a
> crime nor is it immoral.  Companies don't exist to provide employment,
> nor should they.  The closest we have to such a thing in the US is a
> Government Job, and look at the quality THAT breeds.

And further, why focus on the fact they were laid off and not on the
fact they were hired in the first place?

BTW: I saw someone claim that aside from the efficiency of the market
there were also gains to society from irrational behavior.

If a society has business people that systematically overestimate their
chances, that is bad for the businessmen but on net a big gain for
society.  On the social level, the law of averages works to societies
benefit in a manner it can't for an individual.

A key reason, in this view, that the US wound up outperforming England
was that the English investors were too rational for their societies own
good.

(Except, of course, when US investors were bilking them to build canals
and railroads over here.  Thanks, guys.)

=====================

Applied to telecom: a lot of dark wire (glass) and innovation will
eventually be used for pennies on the dollar, the benefits to society
and the costs to the investors.






golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0237.a21d745179e22d780194543b7ad765ec.eml000066400000000000000000000054311444326627400307670ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Aug 28 10:50:44 2002
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On 27 Aug 2002 at 15:00, Rohit Khare wrote:
> 
> DATAPOWER TECHNOLOGY ON Monday unveiled its network device
> designed specifically to process XML data. Unlike competing
> solutions that process XML data in software, DataPower's
> device processes the data in hardware -- a technology
> achievement that provides greater performance, according to
> company officials.
>
Sarvega seems to have a similar product.  http://www.sarvega.com.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0238.7b9b9b2e3b3ca24ae8960f03aab57964.eml000066400000000000000000000567271444326627400313000ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Aug 28 10:50:41 2002
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If it's not stateful, it wouldn't seem to be worth the effort, although I guess it might help with DDoS attacks.

Sounds snake-oilish to me, but I'm biased by lots of experience with firewalls and proxy servers, and the limitations thereof.

Ken


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rohit Khare [mailto:khare@alumni.caltech.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 5:00 PM
> To: fork@example.com
> Subject: DataPower announces XML-in-silicon
> 
> 
> No analysis yet... don't know what to make of it yet. But 
> here's the raw 
> bits for all to peruse and check out what's really going on... Best, 
> Rohit
> 
> ===========================================================
> 
> DataPower delivers XML acceleration device
> By�Scott Tyler Shafer
> August 27, 2002 5:46 am PT
> 
> DATAPOWER TECHNOLOGY ON Monday unveiled its network device designed 
> specifically to process XML data. Unlike competing solutions that 
> process XML data in software, DataPower's device processes 
> the data in 
> hardware -- a technology achievement that provides greater 
> performance, 
> according to company officials.
> 
> The new device, dubbed DataPower XA35 XML Accelerator, is the 
> first in a 
> family of products expected from the Cambridge, Mass.-based 
> startup. The 
> DataPower family is based on a proprietary processing core technology 
> called XG3 that does the analysis, parsing, and processing of the XML 
> data.
> 
> According to Steve Kelly, CEO of DataPower, the XA35 Accelerator was 
> conceived to meet the steady adoption of XML, the anticipated future 
> proliferation of Web services, and as a means to share data 
> between two 
> businesses.
> 
> "Our vision is to build out an XML-aware infrastructure," Kelly said. 
> "The XA35 is the first of a family."
> 
> Kelly explained that converting data into XML increases the 
> file size up 
> to 20 times. This, he said, makes processing the data very taxing on 
> application servers; DataPower believes an inline device is the best 
> alternative.
> 
> In addition to the large file sizes, security is also of paramount 
> importance in the world of XML.
> 
> "Today's firewalls are designed to inspect HTTP traffic only," Kelly 
> said. "A SOAP packet with XML will go straight through a firewall. 
> Firewalls are blind to XML today."
> 
> Future products in DataPowers family will focus more specifically on 
> security, especially as Web services proliferate, Kelly said.
> 
> According to DataPower, most existing solutions to offload XML 
> processing are homegrown and done in software -- an approach 
> the company 
> itself tried initially and found to be inadequate with 
> regards to speed 
> and security. After trying the software path, the company turned to 
> creating a solution that would process XML in hardware.
> 
> "Our XG3 execution core converts XML to machine code," said Kelly, 
> adding that to his knowledge no other company's solution does. Kelly 
> said in the next few months he expects the market to be flooded with 
> technologies that claim to do XML processing -- claims that 
> he believes 
> will be mostly false.
> Other content-aware switches, such as SSL (secure socket layer) 
> accelerators and load balancers, look at the first 64 bytes 
> of a packet, 
> while the XA35 provides deeper packet inspection, looking at 
> 1,400 bytes 
> and thus enabling greater processing of XML data, Kelly explained.
> 
> The 1U-high network device has been tested against a large 
> collection of 
> XML and XSL data types and can learn new flavors of the 
> markup language 
> as they pass through the device.
> 
> The XA35 can be deployed in proxy mode behind a firewall and a load 
> balancer, and it will inspect all traffic that passes and 
> will identify 
> and process those packets that are XML, Kelly said.
> 
> In addition to proxy mode, the device can also be used as an 
> application 
> co-processor. This deployment method gives administrators 
> more granular 
> control over what data is inspected and the application server itself 
> controls the device.
> 
> DataPower is not the only company chasing this emerging 
> market. Startup 
> Sarvega, based in Burr Ridge, Ill., introduced the Sarvega 
> XPE switch in 
> May, and earlier this month Tarari, an Intel spin-off, 
> launched with a 
> focus on content processing and acceleration.
> The DataPower device is now available, priced starting at 
> $54,995. The 
> company has announced one customer to date and says the product is in 
> field trails at a number of other enterprises.
> 
> ==============================================================
> ===========
> 
> DataPower has been addressing enterprise networking needs 
> since it was 
> founded in early 1999 by Eugene Kuznetsov, a technology visionary who 
> foresaw the adverse effects XML and other next generation protocols 
> would have on enterprise networks. Long before industry 
> interest in XML 
> grew, Kuznetsov assembled a team of world-class M.I.T. engineers and 
> designed the industry's first solutions to address the unique 
> requirements for processing XML. The first such solution was 
> a software 
> interpreter called DGXT. This software-based approach to XML 
> processing 
> is still licensed by many companies for use in their own 
> products today.
> 
> Leveraging the detailed knowledge and customer experience gained from 
> developing software-based accelerators, Kuznetsov's team 
> raised the bar 
> and designed a system for processing XML in purpose-built 
> hardware. In 
> 2001, DataPower's effort produced XML Generation Three (XG3�), the 
> industry's fastest technology for XML processing, bar none.
> 
> Today, XG3� technology powers the industry's first wire-speed XML 
> network devices, enabling secure, high-speed applications and XML Web 
> Services. While other companies are just now marketing first 
> versions of 
> products, DataPower is delivering its third generation of technology, 
> providing an immediate return on technology investments to 
> industry-leading customers and partners.
> 
> DataPower's M.I.T. heritage is complemented by a management team that 
> brings decades of experience in the networking and computing 
> industries, 
> drawing veteran leaders from several successful companies including 
> Akamai, Argon, Cascade, Castle Networks, Sycamore and Wellfleet.
> 
> ==============================================================
> ===========
> 
> DataPower Technology Secures $9.5 Million in Funding
> 
> Venrock Associates, Mobius Venture Capital and Seed Capital 
> Back Pioneer 
> in XML-Aware Networking for Web Services
> 
> CAMBRIDGE, Mass. - July 8, 2002 - DataPower Technology, Inc., the 
> leading provider of XML-Aware network infrastructure, today announced 
> that it has secured $9.5 million in series B financing. Investors for 
> this round include Venrock Associates, Mobius Venture Capital 
> and Seed 
> Capital Partners. Michael Tyrrell, of Venrock, Bill Burnham, 
> of Mobius, 
> and Jeff Fagnan, of Seed Capital, have joined DataPower�s Board of 
> Directors.
> 
> DataPower will use this funding to accelerate development, 
> marketing and 
> sales of the company�s breakthrough technology for XML-Aware 
> networking. 
> Founded in 1999, DataPower invented the world�s first intelligent XML 
> networking�devices, capable of transforming XML traffic and 
> transactions 
> at the wire-speed enterprises need to effectively embrace Web 
> services 
> and other XML-centric initiatives. DataPower�s solutions are based on 
> its patent-pending XML Generation Three (XG3�) technology.
> 
> "Enterprises are adopting XML at rapid rate to facilitate inter-and 
> intra-company communications but their network infrastructure is ill 
> prepared to support the requirements of this new traffic type. 
> DataPower�s XML-acceleration devices enable the wirespeed 
> processing of 
> XML that is required to support next generation enterprise 
> applications," said Eugene Kuznetsov, CTO and founder of DataPower 
> Technology.
> 
> "DataPower gives companies the ability to use XML that�s 
> critical to Web 
> services projects without sacrificing an ounce of 
> performance." A single 
> DataPower acceleration engine delivers the processing power of 10 
> servers�breaking the performance bottleneck associated with XML 
> processing and delivering an extraordinary return on investment. In 
> addition, the DataPower platform provides enhanced XML security, 
> protection against XML-based denial-of-service attacks, connection of 
> e-business protocols for incompatible XML data streams, load 
> balancing 
> between back-end servers and real-time statistics reports.
> 
> "In the post-bubble economy, technology investment decisions require 
> laser-focused scrutiny. DataPower�s patent-pending technology 
> addresses 
> a very real and growing pain point for enterprises," said Michael 
> Tyrrell of Venrock Associates. "By turbo-charging their networks with 
> DataPower�s unique XML-Aware networking technology, companies will be 
> free to adopt next generation Web services without encountering 
> performance and security pitfalls."
> 
> "We looked long and hard for a company capable of addressing 
> the rapidly 
> growing problems surrounding XML message processing performance and 
> security," said Bill Burnham of Mobius Venture Capital. 
> "DataPower is on 
> their third generation of technology. Their patent pending XML 
> Generation Three (XG3)�technology was quite simply the single most 
> compelling technology solution we have seen to date."
> 
> "XML is not a nice-to-have, it is a must have for enterprises serious 
> about optimizing application efficiency. Since 1999, 
> DataPower has been 
> developing solutions to facilitate enterprise use of XML and Web 
> services," said Jeff Fagnan of Seed Capital Partners. "DataPower�s 
> XML-acceleration devices are a key requirement for 
> enterprises that rely 
> on XML for mission critical applications."
> 
> About Venrock Associates
> Venrock Associates was founded as the venture capital arm of the 
> Rockefeller Family and continues a tradition of funding entrepreneurs 
> that now spans over seven decades. Laurance S. Rockefeller pioneered 
> early stage venture financing in the 1930s. With over 300 investments 
> over a span of more than 70 years, the firm has an 
> established a track 
> record of identifying and supporting promising early stage, 
> technology- 
> based enterprises. As one of most experienced venture firms in the 
> United States, Venrock maintains a tradition of collaboration with 
> talented entrepreneurs to establish successful, enduring companies. 
> Venrock's continuing goal is to create long-term value by assisting 
> entrepreneurs in building companies from the formative stages. Their 
> consistent focus on Information Technology and Life Sciences-related 
> opportunities provides a reservoir of knowledge and a network of 
> contacts that have proven to be a catalyst for the growth of 
> developing 
> organizations. Venrock's investments have included CheckPoint 
> Software, 
> USinternetworking, Caliper Technologies, Illumina, Niku, DoubleClick, 
> Media Metrix, 3COM, Intel, and Apple Computer. With offices 
> in New York 
> City, Cambridge, MA, and Menlo Park, CA, Venrock is well 
> positioned to 
> respond to opportunities in any locale. For more information 
> on Venrock 
> Associates, please visit www.venrock.com
> 
> About Mobius Venture Capital
> Mobius Venture Capital, formerly SOFTBANK Venture Capital, is a $2.5 
> billion U.S.-based private equity venture capital firm managed by an 
> unparalleled team of former CEOs and entrepreneurs, 
> technology pioneers, 
> senior executives from major technology corporations, and 
> leaders from 
> the investment banking community. Mobius Venture Capital specializes 
> primarily in early-stage investments in the areas of: communications 
> systems software and services; infrastructure software and services; 
> professional services; enterprise applications; healthcare 
> informatics; 
> consumer and small business applications; components; and emerging 
> technologies. Mobius Venture Capital combines its technology 
> expertise 
> and broad financial assets with the industry's best entrepreneurs to 
> create a powerhouse portfolio of over 100 of the world's leading high 
> technology companies. Mobius Venture Capital can be contacted by 
> visiting their web site www.mobiusvc.com.
> 
> About Seed Capital Partners
> Seed Capital Partners is an early-stage venture fund affiliated with 
> SoftBank Corporation, one of the world's leading Internet 
> market forces. 
> Seed Capital manages funds focused primarily on companies addressing 
> Internet-enabled business-to-business digital information technology 
> opportunities, which are located in the Northeastern U.S., the 
> southeastern region of the Province of Ontario, Canada, and 
> Israel. Seed 
> Capital�s portfolio includes Spearhead Technologies, 
> Concentric Visions 
> and CompanyDNA. For more information on Seed Capital Partners, please 
> visit www.seedcp.com.
> 
> About DataPower Technology
> DataPower Technology provides enterprises with intelligent XML-Aware 
> network infrastructure to ensure unparalleled performance, 
> security and 
> manageability of next-generation protocols. DataPower�s 
> patent-pending 
> XML Generation Three (XG3�) technology powers the industry�s first 
> wirespeed XML network devices, enabling secure, high-speed 
> applications 
> and XML Web Services. Founded in 1999, DataPower is now 
> delivering its 
> third generation of technology, providing immediate return on 
> technology 
> investments to industry-leading customers and partners. DataPower is 
> privately held and based in Cambridge, MA. Investors include Mobius 
> Venture Capital, Seed Capital Partners, and Venrock Associates.
> 
> CONTACT:
> 
> DataPower Technology, Inc.
> Kieran Taylor
> 617-864-0455
> kieran@datapower.com
> 
> Schwartz Communications
> John Moran/Heather Chichakly
> 781-684-0770
> datapower@schwartz-pr.com
> 
> ==============================================================
> ==========
> 
> Steve Kelly, chairman and CEO
> 
> During over twenty years in the technology industry, Steve Kelly has 
> built and managed global enterprise networks, provided consulting 
> services to Fortune 50 businesses, and been involved in the launch of 
> several start-ups. Prior to DataPower, Kelly was an 
> entrepreneur-in-residence at Venrock Associates, and was 
> co-founder of 
> Castle Networks, where he led the company's sales, service 
> and marketing 
> functions. Castle was acquired by Siemens AG in 1999 to 
> create Unisphere 
> Networks, which was subsequently purchased by Juniper Networks. Kelly 
> was an early contributor at Cascade Communications, where he 
> built and 
> managed the company's core switching business; Cascade's 
> annual revenues 
> grew from $2 million to $300 million annually during Kelly's tenure. 
> Kelly also worked at Digital Equipment Corporation where he 
> managed and 
> grew their corporate network to 50,000+ nodes in 28 countries, the 
> largest in the world at the time. Kelly has a B.S. in Information 
> Systems from Bentley College.
> 
> Eugene Kuznetsov, founder, president and CTO
> 
> Eugene Kuznetsov is a technology visionary that has been working to 
> address enterprise XML issues since the late 90s. Kuznetsov founded 
> DataPower Technology, Inc. in 1999 to provide enterprises with an 
> intelligent, XML-aware network infrastructure to support 
> next-generation 
> applications. Prior to starting DataPower, Kuznetsov led the Java JIT 
> Compiler effort for Microsoft Internet Explorer for Macintosh 4.0. He 
> was also part of the team which developed one of the first clean room 
> Java VM's. This high-speed runtime technology was licensed by some of 
> the industry's largest technology companies, including Apple 
> Computer. 
> He has consulted to numerous companies and worked on a variety of 
> hardware and software engineering problems in the areas of memory 
> management, power electronics, optimized execution engines and 
> application integration. Kuznetsov holds a B.S. in electrical 
> engineering from MIT.
> 
> Steve Willis, vice president of advanced technology
> 
> Steve Willis is an accomplished entrepreneur and a pioneer in 
> protocol 
> optimization. Prior to joining DataPower, Willis was 
> co-founder and CTO 
> of Argon Networks, a provider of high-performance switching 
> routers that 
> was acquired by Siemens AG in 1999 to create Unisphere Networks; 
> Unisphere was subsequently purchased by Juniper Networks. 
> Before Argon, 
> Steve was vice president of advanced technology at Bay Networks (now 
> Nortel Networks) where he led both IP and ATM-related technology 
> development and managed a group that generated 24 patent 
> applications, 
> developed a 1 Mbps forwarding engine and led the specification of the 
> ATM Forum's PNNI routing protocol. Most notably, Steve was 
> co-founder, 
> original software director and architect for Wellfleet 
> Communications, a 
> leading pioneer of multi-protocol routers. Wellfleet was rated as the 
> fastest growing company in the U.S. for two consecutive years 
> by Fortune 
> magazine. Willis is currently a member of the Institute of Electrical 
> and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) and the Internet Research Task Force 
> (IRTF) Routing Research Group. Willis has a B.D.I.C. in 
> Computer Science 
> from the University of Massachusetts.
> 
> Bill Tao, vice president of engineering
> 
> With a vast understanding of network optimization technologies and 
> extensive experience in LAN and WAN networking, Bill Tao 
> brings over 25 
> years of critical knowledge to lead DataPower's engineering efforts. 
> Prior to DataPower, Tao was the vice president of engineering for 
> Sycamore Networks, developing a family of metro/regional 
> optical network 
> switches. He is also well acquainted with network optimization 
> techniques as he was previously vice president of engineering at 
> InfoLibria, where he led development and software quality assurance 
> engineering for a family of network caching products. Tao has held 
> senior engineering positions at NetEdge, Proteon, Codex and Wang. Tao 
> received a B.S. in Electrical Engineering from the University of 
> Connecticut and an M.S. in Computer Science from the University of 
> Illinois.
> 
> Kieran Taylor, director of product marketing
> 
> Kieran Taylor has an accomplished record as a marketing professional, 
> industry analyst and journalist. Prior to joining DataPower, 
> Taylor was 
> the director of product management and marketing for Akamai 
> Technologies 
> (NASDAQ: AKAM). As an early contributor at Akamai, he helped 
> develop the 
> company's initial positioning and led the technical development and 
> go-to-market activities for Akamai's flagship EdgeSuite service. 
> Taylor's early contribution helped position the service provider to 
> secure a $12.6 billion IPO. He has also held senior marketing 
> management 
> positions at Nortel Networks, Inc. and Bay Networks. Taylor was 
> previously an analyst at TeleChoice, Inc. and the Wide Area Networks 
> editor for Data Communications, a McGraw Hill publication. 
> Taylor holds 
> a B.A. in Print Journalism from the Pennsylvania State 
> University School 
> of Communications.
> 
> =================================================================
> Board of Advisors
> 
> Mark Hoover
> Mark Hoover is President and co-founder of Acuitive, Inc., a start-up 
> accelerator. With over 20 years experience in the networking 
> industry, 
> Hoover's expertise spans product development, marketing, and business 
> development. Before launching Acuitive, Hoover worked at AT&T Bell 
> Laboratories, AT&T Computer Systems, SynOptics, and Bay 
> Networks, where 
> he played a role in the development of key technologies, such as 
> 10-BASET, routing, FDDI, ATM, Ethernet switching, firewall, Internet 
> traffic management, and edge WAN switch industries.
> 
> George Kassabgi
> Currently Vice President of Engineering at BEA Systems, Mr. 
> Kassabgi has 
> held executive-level positions in engineering, sales and 
> marketing, and 
> has spearheaded leading-edge developments in the application server 
> marketplace since 1996. He is widely known for his regular speaking 
> engagements at JavaOne, as well as columns and contributions 
> in JavaPro, 
> Java Developer's Journal and other publications. In addition 
> to being a 
> venerated Java expert, George Kassabgi holds a patent on SmartObject 
> Technology, and authored the technical book Progress V8.
> 
> Marshall T. Rose
> Marshall T. Rose runs his own firm, Dover Beach Consulting, Inc. He 
> formerly held the position of the Internet Engineering Task 
> Force (IETF) 
> Area Director for Network Management, one of a dozen individuals who 
> oversaw the Internet's standardization process. Rose is the author of 
> several professional texts on subjects such as Internet Management, 
> Electronic Mail, and Directory Services, which have been published in 
> four languages. He is well known for his implementations of core 
> Internet technologies (such as POP, SMTP, and SNMP) and OSI 
> technologies 
> (such as X.500 and FTAM). Rose received a PhD in Information and 
> Computer Science from the University of California, Irvine, in 1984.
> 
> 

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0239.58f51c99b02fc8b49664f15a855af780.eml000066400000000000000000000060201444326627400310640ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Aug 28 10:50:54 2002
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Subject: Re: DataPower announces XML-in-silicon
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On 27 Aug 2002 at 15:00, Rohit Khare wrote:

> DataPower delivers XML acceleration device
> By�Scott Tyler Shafer
> August 27, 2002 5:46 am PT
> 
Intel also had a similar device a couple of years ago (Netstructure).  They have, afaik, abandoned it.

Intel is still in the XML hardware game though.  On 8/19 they spun off a company named Tarari.   Tarari develops hardware to check the headers of IP packets. Tarari calls 
this Layer 7 processing (atop the OSI model).    From what I can tell, Tarari plans to combine virus scanning and XML acceleration into a single hardware device.

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From: Paul Sholtz 
To: "'Rohit Khare '" ,
	"'fork@xent.com '" 
Subject: RE: DataPower announces XML-in-silicon
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Hardware acceleration for SSL makes sense since PKI can slow down a
transaction by as much as 1,000-fold. Per this article, XML formatting only
increases doc size by about 20-fold.. I'm not sure there are enough "powers
of ten" in there to justify hardware acceleration. 

Expect the next major release from DataPower to be the revolutionary new
"email chip" - allows you to offload the sending and receiving of email
messages onto dedicated hardware while you get on w/ more important things
.. like listening to MP3s..

Best, 
Paul Sholtz

-----Original Message-----
From: Rohit Khare
To: fork@example.com
Sent: 8/27/02 3:00 PM
Subject: DataPower announces XML-in-silicon

No analysis yet... don't know what to make of it yet. But here's the raw

bits for all to peruse and check out what's really going on... Best, 
Rohit

===========================================================

DataPower delivers XML acceleration device
By�Scott Tyler Shafer
August 27, 2002 5:46 am PT

DATAPOWER TECHNOLOGY ON Monday unveiled its network device designed 
specifically to process XML data. Unlike competing solutions that 
process XML data in software, DataPower's device processes the data in 
hardware -- a technology achievement that provides greater performance, 
according to company officials.

The new device, dubbed DataPower XA35 XML Accelerator, is the first in a

family of products expected from the Cambridge, Mass.-based startup. The

DataPower family is based on a proprietary processing core technology 
called XG3 that does the analysis, parsing, and processing of the XML 
data.

According to Steve Kelly, CEO of DataPower, the XA35 Accelerator was 
conceived to meet the steady adoption of XML, the anticipated future 
proliferation of Web services, and as a means to share data between two 
businesses.

"Our vision is to build out an XML-aware infrastructure," Kelly said. 
"The XA35 is the first of a family."

Kelly explained that converting data into XML increases the file size up

to 20 times. This, he said, makes processing the data very taxing on 
application servers; DataPower believes an inline device is the best 
alternative.

In addition to the large file sizes, security is also of paramount 
importance in the world of XML.

"Today's firewalls are designed to inspect HTTP traffic only," Kelly 
said. "A SOAP packet with XML will go straight through a firewall. 
Firewalls are blind to XML today."

Future products in DataPowers family will focus more specifically on 
security, especially as Web services proliferate, Kelly said.

According to DataPower, most existing solutions to offload XML 
processing are homegrown and done in software -- an approach the company

itself tried initially and found to be inadequate with regards to speed 
and security. After trying the software path, the company turned to 
creating a solution that would process XML in hardware.

"Our XG3 execution core converts XML to machine code," said Kelly, 
adding that to his knowledge no other company's solution does. Kelly 
said in the next few months he expects the market to be flooded with 
technologies that claim to do XML processing -- claims that he believes 
will be mostly false.
Other content-aware switches, such as SSL (secure socket layer) 
accelerators and load balancers, look at the first 64 bytes of a packet,

while the XA35 provides deeper packet inspection, looking at 1,400 bytes

and thus enabling greater processing of XML data, Kelly explained.

The 1U-high network device has been tested against a large collection of

XML and XSL data types and can learn new flavors of the markup language 
as they pass through the device.

The XA35 can be deployed in proxy mode behind a firewall and a load 
balancer, and it will inspect all traffic that passes and will identify 
and process those packets that are XML, Kelly said.

In addition to proxy mode, the device can also be used as an application

co-processor. This deployment method gives administrators more granular 
control over what data is inspected and the application server itself 
controls the device.

DataPower is not the only company chasing this emerging market. Startup 
Sarvega, based in Burr Ridge, Ill., introduced the Sarvega XPE switch in

May, and earlier this month Tarari, an Intel spin-off, launched with a 
focus on content processing and acceleration.
The DataPower device is now available, priced starting at $54,995. The 
company has announced one customer to date and says the product is in 
field trails at a number of other enterprises.

========================================================================
=

DataPower has been addressing enterprise networking needs since it was 
founded in early 1999 by Eugene Kuznetsov, a technology visionary who 
foresaw the adverse effects XML and other next generation protocols 
would have on enterprise networks. Long before industry interest in XML 
grew, Kuznetsov assembled a team of world-class M.I.T. engineers and 
designed the industry's first solutions to address the unique 
requirements for processing XML. The first such solution was a software 
interpreter called DGXT. This software-based approach to XML processing 
is still licensed by many companies for use in their own products today.

Leveraging the detailed knowledge and customer experience gained from 
developing software-based accelerators, Kuznetsov's team raised the bar 
and designed a system for processing XML in purpose-built hardware. In 
2001, DataPower's effort produced XML Generation Three (XG3�), the 
industry's fastest technology for XML processing, bar none.

Today, XG3� technology powers the industry's first wire-speed XML 
network devices, enabling secure, high-speed applications and XML Web 
Services. While other companies are just now marketing first versions of

products, DataPower is delivering its third generation of technology, 
providing an immediate return on technology investments to 
industry-leading customers and partners.

DataPower's M.I.T. heritage is complemented by a management team that 
brings decades of experience in the networking and computing industries,

drawing veteran leaders from several successful companies including 
Akamai, Argon, Cascade, Castle Networks, Sycamore and Wellfleet.

========================================================================
=

DataPower Technology Secures $9.5 Million in Funding

Venrock Associates, Mobius Venture Capital and Seed Capital Back Pioneer

in XML-Aware Networking for Web Services

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. - July 8, 2002 - DataPower Technology, Inc., the 
leading provider of XML-Aware network infrastructure, today announced 
that it has secured $9.5 million in series B financing. Investors for 
this round include Venrock Associates, Mobius Venture Capital and Seed 
Capital Partners. Michael Tyrrell, of Venrock, Bill Burnham, of Mobius, 
and Jeff Fagnan, of Seed Capital, have joined DataPower�s Board of 
Directors.

DataPower will use this funding to accelerate development, marketing and

sales of the company�s breakthrough technology for XML-Aware networking.

Founded in 1999, DataPower invented the world�s first intelligent XML 
networking�devices, capable of transforming XML traffic and transactions

at the wire-speed enterprises need to effectively embrace Web services 
and other XML-centric initiatives. DataPower�s solutions are based on 
its patent-pending XML Generation Three (XG3�) technology.

"Enterprises are adopting XML at rapid rate to facilitate inter-and 
intra-company communications but their network infrastructure is ill 
prepared to support the requirements of this new traffic type. 
DataPower�s XML-acceleration devices enable the wirespeed processing of 
XML that is required to support next generation enterprise 
applications," said Eugene Kuznetsov, CTO and founder of DataPower 
Technology.

"DataPower gives companies the ability to use XML that�s critical to Web

services projects without sacrificing an ounce of performance." A single

DataPower acceleration engine delivers the processing power of 10 
servers�breaking the performance bottleneck associated with XML 
processing and delivering an extraordinary return on investment. In 
addition, the DataPower platform provides enhanced XML security, 
protection against XML-based denial-of-service attacks, connection of 
e-business protocols for incompatible XML data streams, load balancing 
between back-end servers and real-time statistics reports.

"In the post-bubble economy, technology investment decisions require 
laser-focused scrutiny. DataPower�s patent-pending technology addresses 
a very real and growing pain point for enterprises," said Michael 
Tyrrell of Venrock Associates. "By turbo-charging their networks with 
DataPower�s unique XML-Aware networking technology, companies will be 
free to adopt next generation Web services without encountering 
performance and security pitfalls."

"We looked long and hard for a company capable of addressing the rapidly

growing problems surrounding XML message processing performance and 
security," said Bill Burnham of Mobius Venture Capital. "DataPower is on

their third generation of technology. Their patent pending XML 
Generation Three (XG3)�technology was quite simply the single most 
compelling technology solution we have seen to date."

"XML is not a nice-to-have, it is a must have for enterprises serious 
about optimizing application efficiency. Since 1999, DataPower has been 
developing solutions to facilitate enterprise use of XML and Web 
services," said Jeff Fagnan of Seed Capital Partners. "DataPower�s 
XML-acceleration devices are a key requirement for enterprises that rely

on XML for mission critical applications."

About Venrock Associates
Venrock Associates was founded as the venture capital arm of the 
Rockefeller Family and continues a tradition of funding entrepreneurs 
that now spans over seven decades. Laurance S. Rockefeller pioneered 
early stage venture financing in the 1930s. With over 300 investments 
over a span of more than 70 years, the firm has an established a track 
record of identifying and supporting promising early stage, technology- 
based enterprises. As one of most experienced venture firms in the 
United States, Venrock maintains a tradition of collaboration with 
talented entrepreneurs to establish successful, enduring companies. 
Venrock's continuing goal is to create long-term value by assisting 
entrepreneurs in building companies from the formative stages. Their 
consistent focus on Information Technology and Life Sciences-related 
opportunities provides a reservoir of knowledge and a network of 
contacts that have proven to be a catalyst for the growth of developing 
organizations. Venrock's investments have included CheckPoint Software, 
USinternetworking, Caliper Technologies, Illumina, Niku, DoubleClick, 
Media Metrix, 3COM, Intel, and Apple Computer. With offices in New York 
City, Cambridge, MA, and Menlo Park, CA, Venrock is well positioned to 
respond to opportunities in any locale. For more information on Venrock 
Associates, please visit www.venrock.com

About Mobius Venture Capital
Mobius Venture Capital, formerly SOFTBANK Venture Capital, is a $2.5 
billion U.S.-based private equity venture capital firm managed by an 
unparalleled team of former CEOs and entrepreneurs, technology pioneers,

senior executives from major technology corporations, and leaders from 
the investment banking community. Mobius Venture Capital specializes 
primarily in early-stage investments in the areas of: communications 
systems software and services; infrastructure software and services; 
professional services; enterprise applications; healthcare informatics; 
consumer and small business applications; components; and emerging 
technologies. Mobius Venture Capital combines its technology expertise 
and broad financial assets with the industry's best entrepreneurs to 
create a powerhouse portfolio of over 100 of the world's leading high 
technology companies. Mobius Venture Capital can be contacted by 
visiting their web site www.mobiusvc.com.

About Seed Capital Partners
Seed Capital Partners is an early-stage venture fund affiliated with 
SoftBank Corporation, one of the world's leading Internet market forces.

Seed Capital manages funds focused primarily on companies addressing 
Internet-enabled business-to-business digital information technology 
opportunities, which are located in the Northeastern U.S., the 
southeastern region of the Province of Ontario, Canada, and Israel. Seed

Capital�s portfolio includes Spearhead Technologies, Concentric Visions 
and CompanyDNA. For more information on Seed Capital Partners, please 
visit www.seedcp.com.

About DataPower Technology
DataPower Technology provides enterprises with intelligent XML-Aware 
network infrastructure to ensure unparalleled performance, security and 
manageability of next-generation protocols. DataPower�s patent-pending 
XML Generation Three (XG3�) technology powers the industry�s first 
wirespeed XML network devices, enabling secure, high-speed applications 
and XML Web Services. Founded in 1999, DataPower is now delivering its 
third generation of technology, providing immediate return on technology

investments to industry-leading customers and partners. DataPower is 
privately held and based in Cambridge, MA. Investors include Mobius 
Venture Capital, Seed Capital Partners, and Venrock Associates.

CONTACT:

DataPower Technology, Inc.
Kieran Taylor
617-864-0455
kieran@datapower.com

Schwartz Communications
John Moran/Heather Chichakly
781-684-0770
datapower@schwartz-pr.com

========================================================================

Steve Kelly, chairman and CEO

During over twenty years in the technology industry, Steve Kelly has 
built and managed global enterprise networks, provided consulting 
services to Fortune 50 businesses, and been involved in the launch of 
several start-ups. Prior to DataPower, Kelly was an 
entrepreneur-in-residence at Venrock Associates, and was co-founder of 
Castle Networks, where he led the company's sales, service and marketing

functions. Castle was acquired by Siemens AG in 1999 to create Unisphere

Networks, which was subsequently purchased by Juniper Networks. Kelly 
was an early contributor at Cascade Communications, where he built and 
managed the company's core switching business; Cascade's annual revenues

grew from $2 million to $300 million annually during Kelly's tenure. 
Kelly also worked at Digital Equipment Corporation where he managed and 
grew their corporate network to 50,000+ nodes in 28 countries, the 
largest in the world at the time. Kelly has a B.S. in Information 
Systems from Bentley College.

Eugene Kuznetsov, founder, president and CTO

Eugene Kuznetsov is a technology visionary that has been working to 
address enterprise XML issues since the late 90s. Kuznetsov founded 
DataPower Technology, Inc. in 1999 to provide enterprises with an 
intelligent, XML-aware network infrastructure to support next-generation

applications. Prior to starting DataPower, Kuznetsov led the Java JIT 
Compiler effort for Microsoft Internet Explorer for Macintosh 4.0. He 
was also part of the team which developed one of the first clean room 
Java VM's. This high-speed runtime technology was licensed by some of 
the industry's largest technology companies, including Apple Computer. 
He has consulted to numerous companies and worked on a variety of 
hardware and software engineering problems in the areas of memory 
management, power electronics, optimized execution engines and 
application integration. Kuznetsov holds a B.S. in electrical 
engineering from MIT.

Steve Willis, vice president of advanced technology

Steve Willis is an accomplished entrepreneur and a pioneer in protocol 
optimization. Prior to joining DataPower, Willis was co-founder and CTO 
of Argon Networks, a provider of high-performance switching routers that

was acquired by Siemens AG in 1999 to create Unisphere Networks; 
Unisphere was subsequently purchased by Juniper Networks. Before Argon, 
Steve was vice president of advanced technology at Bay Networks (now 
Nortel Networks) where he led both IP and ATM-related technology 
development and managed a group that generated 24 patent applications, 
developed a 1 Mbps forwarding engine and led the specification of the 
ATM Forum's PNNI routing protocol. Most notably, Steve was co-founder, 
original software director and architect for Wellfleet Communications, a

leading pioneer of multi-protocol routers. Wellfleet was rated as the 
fastest growing company in the U.S. for two consecutive years by Fortune

magazine. Willis is currently a member of the Institute of Electrical 
and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) and the Internet Research Task Force 
(IRTF) Routing Research Group. Willis has a B.D.I.C. in Computer Science

from the University of Massachusetts.

Bill Tao, vice president of engineering

With a vast understanding of network optimization technologies and 
extensive experience in LAN and WAN networking, Bill Tao brings over 25 
years of critical knowledge to lead DataPower's engineering efforts. 
Prior to DataPower, Tao was the vice president of engineering for 
Sycamore Networks, developing a family of metro/regional optical network

switches. He is also well acquainted with network optimization 
techniques as he was previously vice president of engineering at 
InfoLibria, where he led development and software quality assurance 
engineering for a family of network caching products. Tao has held 
senior engineering positions at NetEdge, Proteon, Codex and Wang. Tao 
received a B.S. in Electrical Engineering from the University of 
Connecticut and an M.S. in Computer Science from the University of 
Illinois.

Kieran Taylor, director of product marketing

Kieran Taylor has an accomplished record as a marketing professional, 
industry analyst and journalist. Prior to joining DataPower, Taylor was 
the director of product management and marketing for Akamai Technologies

(NASDAQ: AKAM). As an early contributor at Akamai, he helped develop the

company's initial positioning and led the technical development and 
go-to-market activities for Akamai's flagship EdgeSuite service. 
Taylor's early contribution helped position the service provider to 
secure a $12.6 billion IPO. He has also held senior marketing management

positions at Nortel Networks, Inc. and Bay Networks. Taylor was 
previously an analyst at TeleChoice, Inc. and the Wide Area Networks 
editor for Data Communications, a McGraw Hill publication. Taylor holds 
a B.A. in Print Journalism from the Pennsylvania State University School

of Communications.

=================================================================
Board of Advisors

Mark Hoover
Mark Hoover is President and co-founder of Acuitive, Inc., a start-up 
accelerator. With over 20 years experience in the networking industry, 
Hoover's expertise spans product development, marketing, and business 
development. Before launching Acuitive, Hoover worked at AT&T Bell 
Laboratories, AT&T Computer Systems, SynOptics, and Bay Networks, where 
he played a role in the development of key technologies, such as 
10-BASET, routing, FDDI, ATM, Ethernet switching, firewall, Internet 
traffic management, and edge WAN switch industries.

George Kassabgi
Currently Vice President of Engineering at BEA Systems, Mr. Kassabgi has

held executive-level positions in engineering, sales and marketing, and 
has spearheaded leading-edge developments in the application server 
marketplace since 1996. He is widely known for his regular speaking 
engagements at JavaOne, as well as columns and contributions in JavaPro,

Java Developer's Journal and other publications. In addition to being a 
venerated Java expert, George Kassabgi holds a patent on SmartObject 
Technology, and authored the technical book Progress V8.

Marshall T. Rose
Marshall T. Rose runs his own firm, Dover Beach Consulting, Inc. He 
formerly held the position of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF)

Area Director for Network Management, one of a dozen individuals who 
oversaw the Internet's standardization process. Rose is the author of 
several professional texts on subjects such as Internet Management, 
Electronic Mail, and Directory Services, which have been published in 
four languages. He is well known for his implementations of core 
Internet technologies (such as POP, SMTP, and SNMP) and OSI technologies

(such as X.500 and FTAM). Rose received a PhD in Information and 
Computer Science from the University of California, Irvine, in 1984.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0241.f1989a8ee4ea188e90f3a5d4d40f4e36.eml000066400000000000000000000067511444326627400313050ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Aug 28 10:51:16 2002
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From: "Adam L. Beberg" 
To: Rohit Khare 
Cc: 
Subject: Re: DataPower announces XML-in-silicon
In-Reply-To: <5D5CC294-BA08-11D6-837F-000393A46DEA@alumni.caltech.edu>
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On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, Rohit Khare wrote:

> DATAPOWER TECHNOLOGY ON Monday unveiled its network device designed
> specifically to process XML data. Unlike competing solutions that
> process XML data in software, DataPower's device processes the data in
> hardware -- a technology achievement that provides greater performance,
> according to company officials.

Now, to do this, we all know they have to be cracking the strong crypto used
on all transaction in order to process them... So this has some preaty heavy
implications, unless it's just BS.

> Kelly explained that converting data into XML increases the file size up
> to 20 times. This, he said, makes processing the data very taxing on
> application servers; DataPower believes an inline device is the best
> alternative.

Or.... you could just not bloat it 20x to begin with. Nah! (that was the
whole point of XML afterall, to sell more CPUs - much like Oracle's use of
Java allows them to sell 3x more CPU licenses due to the performance hit)

> In addition to the large file sizes, security is also of paramount
> importance in the world of XML.
>
> "Today's firewalls are designed to inspect HTTP traffic only," Kelly
> said. "A SOAP packet with XML will go straight through a firewall.
> Firewalls are blind to XML today."

Again, see above... they _are_ claiming to decode the crypto...

> "Our XG3 execution core converts XML to machine code," said Kelly,

Mmmmmmmmmmm, machine code, never a good idea ;)

- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0242.a02f8a0ce9077130c10d33db2a16ec36.eml000066400000000000000000000043261444326627400311420ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Aug 28 11:30:34 2002
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 07:22:13 -0300

 From the local paper this morning.
"Canadians eat about seven times as many doughnuts per capita"... (as 
Americans) . D'oh!

Owen



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0243.7cc0334826a0571058dc604dce04c446.eml000066400000000000000000000061351444326627400307430ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: barbarabarrett@orchidserve.com  Wed Aug 28 11:19:29 2002
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> > Barbara Blithered;
> > Others indicators this was a late invention are the use of the f rune
> > not only for "f", but inverted to mean "ff" (the welsh "v" phoneme) -

> Stew Stired; 
> Isn't it the other way round, f(welsh)=v(english) ff(welsh)=f(english).

Barbara Babbles;
Mea culpa. That's what I get for reading my welsh dictionary upside
down; "F"n trouble ;-).
Barbara

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> Martin Mentioned:
> >I've used this a few times and can thoroughly recommend it. It really 
> >doeswork. Frankly, the only drawback is finding too much stuff.

>Rachel Rote; 
> I'll be amazed if there's anyone on here who isn't already a heavy user!

Barbara Babbles;
Be amazed - I've never bought anything online since an almighty cock up
with amazon dot con (that's not a typo) a few years back where I lost
all the dosh I'd paid them and had no books to show for it either. Had
it been the UK branch I'd have had them in the small claims court
quicker than you could drop LOTR on your foot and say "ouch", but as it
was the US branch I'd just no comeback.
Barbara

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0245.39190ace43266b978a8561863c8841c0.eml000066400000000000000000000052551444326627400306420ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: timc@2ubh.com  Wed Aug 28 11:30:48 2002
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Subject: [zzzzteana] The new Steve Earle
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http://www.nme.com/news/102774.htm

CAM'RON  associate  JUELZ SANTANA  has vehemently defended a lyric on the
forthcoming album by the pair's  DIPLOMATS  crew that pays tribute to
September 11 hijacker  OMAR ATTA
...

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0246.3422f94c01ebd283ffac23522268f3f8.eml000066400000000000000000000057751444326627400311320ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: martin@srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk  Wed Aug 28 11:30:56 2002
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> CAM'RON associate JUELZ SANTANA has vehemently defended a lyric on the
> forthcoming album by the pair's DIPLOMATS crew that pays tribute to
> September 11 hijacker OMAR ATTA

No, Steve Earle at least USED to make great records.

Martin

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0247.98ed5d80f80da3915b5a1d10ee19c50a.eml000066400000000000000000000053501444326627400312540ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Wed Aug 28 10:47:27 2002
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Subject: [ILUG] Got me a crappy laptop
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Hey,
I has just been given an old Toshiba CS100 with earliest pentium and 400mb
of HD but only a floppy drive on it, its got Win3.1 which is funny to see
again but gonna be cleared as soon as i stop messing with it. What I was
wondering was could anyone advise what O/S would be good for this, I want a
small usable *nix distro for it that i can transfer to it fom floppy.
Connecting this to Winblows>i know that winblows allows pier-to-pier
connections over serial and parellel ports to other winblows but is this
easy do for connecting winblows to *nix???



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0248.a7515095844cf4106ed86f1348b8c85d.eml000066400000000000000000000041671444326627400310070ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Wed Aug 28 10:47:36 2002
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From: Inn Share 
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Hi,all:

Does anyone know how to list the biggest file in my
root directory?or the second biggest ..etc...

Because I want to find out what is the reason cause my
root all most full.

The system is Solaris 8 Sparc.

Thanks !!!

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0249.d591bcf606114a502b4d41e8f4dde95a.eml000066400000000000000000000064041444326627400312560ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Wed Aug 28 10:47:36 2002
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From: Gavin McCullagh 
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On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, Jon wrote:

> I has just been given an old Toshiba CS100 with earliest pentium and 400mb
> of HD but only a floppy drive on it, its got Win3.1 which is funny to see
> again but gonna be cleared as soon as i stop messing with it. What I was
> wondering was could anyone advise what O/S would be good for this, I want a
> small usable *nix distro for it that i can transfer to it fom floppy.
> Connecting this to Winblows>i know that winblows allows pier-to-pier
> connections over serial and parellel ports to other winblows but is this
> easy do for connecting winblows to *nix???

Have done exactly this with debian, only I used a PCMCIA network card and
did it off ftp.esat.net (ucd bandwidth is rather good).

However, if you've another machine, look into this null modem cable jobby:

http://rosebud.sps.queensu.ca/~edd/t100cs.html

whether you can connect that to direct cable connectionI've no idea.  You
could however, put the files onto windows, boot onto a ILUG BBC[tm] and
mount the fat32 partition.

Easier/Quicker way is to get your hands on a PCMCIA nic.  Also makes the
maptop far more useful in the long run.

Gavin


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0250.21660c434f8535865d04d112f8105708.eml000066400000000000000000000053341444326627400304530ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Wed Aug 28 10:47:51 2002
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If you're not in Doolin, beg, borrow, or steal your way there before
the LBW folk depart. It's far too much fun.

Cheers,
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-- 
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0251.f9d83ac9ced9eab63df7da2bccb83bc8.eml000066400000000000000000000054071444326627400320120ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Wed Aug 28 10:47:49 2002
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Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 20:36:02 +0100
From: Philip Reynolds 
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Subject: Re: [ILUG] find the biggest file
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Inn Share's [shareinnn@yahoo.com] 22 lines of wisdom included:
> 
> Hi,all:
> 
> Does anyone know how to list the biggest file in my
> root directory?or the second biggest ..etc...
> 
> Because I want to find out what is the reason cause my
> root all most full.

$ find /dir -name \*  | xargs du -s | sort -n

Smallest files are listed first with the largest at the end. So if
you want to get the 5 largest files, pipe through tail.

e.g.

$ find /dir -name \*  | xargs du -s | sort -n | tail -5
-- 
  Philip Reynolds        
   RFC Networks          tel: 01 8832063
www.rfc-networks.ie      fax: 01 8832041

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0252.274e70cd31fb5c72b9e7aee909c53cb1.eml000066400000000000000000000045201444326627400313350ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Wed Aug 28 10:48:00 2002
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Philip Reynolds wrote:
>>Does anyone know how to list the biggest file in my
>>root directory?or the second biggest ..etc...
> $ find /dir -name \*  | xargs du -s | sort -n

You might want to put a '-type f' on that find.

Paul.


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On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, David Neary wrote:

> > Actually the following would be in some way sensible:
> > echo -e "`echo "$enc" | sed 's/%\([0-9a-fA-F]\{2,2\}\)/\\\x\1/g'`"
> 
> Why {2,2}? Why not {2}?

no idea.

the above was something along the lines i was attempting, once i 
realised it was a straight swap. but i couldnt get awk's gensub to 
insert the \x for %'s and ='s.

anyway, in the end i found something on the internet and adapted it:

function decode_url (str,    hextab,i,c,c1,c2,len,code) {

        # hex to dec lookup table
        hextab ["0"] = 0;       hextab ["8"] = 8;
        hextab ["1"] = 1;       hextab ["9"] = 9;
        hextab ["2"] = 2;       hextab ["A"] = 10;
        hextab ["3"] = 3;       hextab ["B"] = 11;
        hextab ["4"] = 4;       hextab ["C"] = 12;
        hextab ["5"] = 5;       hextab ["D"] = 13;
        hextab ["6"] = 6;       hextab ["E"] = 14;
        hextab ["7"] = 7;       hextab ["F"] = 15;

        decoded = "";
        i   = 1;
        len = length (str);
        while ( i <= len ) {
                c = substr (str, i, 1);
                # check for usual start of URI hex encoding chars
                if ( c == "%" || c == "=" ) {
                        if ( i+2 <= len ) {
                                # valid hex encoding?
                                c1 = toupper(substr(str, i+1, 1));
                                c2 = toupper(substr(str, i+2, 1));
                                if ( !(hextab [c1] == "" && hextab [c2] == "") ) {
                                        code = 0 + hextab [c1] * 16 + hextab [c2] + 0
                                        c = sprintf ("%c", code)
                                        i = i + 2
                                }
                        }
                # + is space apparently
                } else if ( c == "+" ) {
                        c = " "
                }
                decoded = decoded c;
                ++i;
        }
        return decoded
}

> Cheers,
> Dave.

> PS the late reply is because the footer on the original mail (If
> you received this mail in error yadda yadda) got caught in my
> spam filter, and ended up in my junkmail directory.

he he...

might not have been the footer - check my headers. :)

regards,
-- 
Paul Jakma	paul@clubi.ie	paul@jakma.org	Key ID: 64A2FF6A
	warning: do not ever send email to spam@dishone.st
Fortune:
One nuclear bomb can ruin your whole day.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0254.d40c629a02c7361e674d0d96ca130fe0.eml000066400000000000000000000056261444326627400311100ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Wed Aug 28 10:48:15 2002
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Might just take a trip over there later tomorrow, it is after all only
on my backdoor-step...

E.



-----Original Message-----
From: ilug-admin@linux.ie [mailto:ilug-admin@linux.ie] On Behalf Of
Ronan Waide
Sent: 27 August 2002 21:19
To: ILUG list
Subject: [ILUG] doolin


If you're not in Doolin, beg, borrow, or steal your way there before the
LBW folk depart. It's far too much fun.

Cheers,
Waider. Just back.
-- 
waider@waider.ie / Yes, it /is/ very personal of me.
"...we are in fact well and truly doomed. She says that if I leave now, 
 I can probably get a good head start before they realize that I'm
gone."
                                                    - Jamie Zawinski

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0255.98492176173fd6951086bb7af9e0008a.eml000066400000000000000000000054041444326627400307170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Wed Aug 28 10:48:25 2002
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Hi,

I've got an normal 3.5" CD-RW IDE drive that I'd like to be able to use with a
Dell Latitude CPx laptop that I've got. Does anyone know any way to enable this,
for example through the use of a special cable for the Modular Bay (where CD-ROM
or floppy drive is normally).

There is also the possibility of using a docking station, but Dell's docking
solution for the Latitude series doesn't seem to allow for the use of an IDE
drive, only SCSI... Unless someone knows of a "non-Dell" solution that's
compatible.

Anyone any ideas?

Thanks,

Darren.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0256.6162c21da16ce179d6ed0238a7413a8d.eml000066400000000000000000000052621444326627400311120ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Wed Aug 28 10:48:30 2002
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Darren Kenny wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've got an normal 3.5" CD-RW IDE drive that I'd like to be able to use 
> with a Dell Latitude CPx laptop that I've got. Does anyone know any way 
 > enable this, for example through the use of a special cable for the
 > Modular Bay (where CD-ROM or floppy drive is normally).

There is absolutely no way to use a conventional 3.5" drive with a
laptop directly. However, you can get an external firewire or USB
cradle and attach it to the laptop like that, and any 3.5" drive
will work in that case.

Example :

http://www.microsense.com/USB_35_combo.asp

Regards,

Vin


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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 08:53:55 +0200
From: David Neary 
To: ilug@linux.ie
Subject: Re: [ILUG] find the biggest file
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Philip Reynolds wrote:
> Inn Share's [shareinnn@yahoo.com] 22 lines of wisdom included:
> > 
> > Hi,all:
> > 
> > Does anyone know how to list the biggest file in my
> > root directory?or the second biggest ..etc...
> > 
> > Because I want to find out what is the reason cause my
> > root all most full.
> 
> $ find /dir -name \*  | xargs du -s | sort -n
> 
> Smallest files are listed first with the largest at the end. So if
> you want to get the 5 largest files, pipe through tail.

Adding -r to the sort options, and piping through head instead,
might be a better idea. tail needs to read teh whole buffer, head
only reads the first n lines.

Cheers,
Dave.

-- 
       David Neary,
    Marseille, France
  E-Mail: bolsh@gimp.org

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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:11:21 +0100
From: "John P. Looney" 
To: ilug@linux.ie
Subject: Re: [ILUG] Using Normal IDE Device with a Dell Latitude CPx laptop
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On Tue, Aug 27, 2002 at 11:38:00PM +0100, Vincent Cunniffe mentioned:
> There is absolutely no way to use a conventional 3.5" drive with a
> laptop directly. However, you can get an external firewire or USB
> cradle and attach it to the laptop like that, and any 3.5" drive
> will work in that case.

 Ah, they told me that about my A1200. Just got a video box, cut air holes
and a hole for the cables, then got an extra-long 2.5" to 3.5" IDE cable,
and connected it up. Had to make a few holes in the A1200 case for the
IDE cable too.

 Worked a charm. Until I dropped the disk one day onto concrete.

Kate


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From: Aherne Peter-pahern02 
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Ok, Iknow this is blatantly OT but I'm beginning to go insane.
Had an old Dell Dimension XPS sitting in the corner and decided to
put it to use, I know it was working pre being stuck in the
corner, but when I plugged it in, hit the power nothing happened.
I opened her up and had a look and say nothing much. A little orange
LED comes on when I plug her in but that's it, after some googling
I found some reference to re-seating all the parts, but no change.
The problem I'm having is that since the power supply is some Dell
specific one, ATX block with what looks like one of the old AT
power connectors, I cant figure out weather this is a Mobo prob
or a PSU prob. Just to futily try and drag this back OT, I want
to install Linux on it when I get it working. If anyone knows
what the problem might be give me a shout.

Cheers,
Peter.

--
Peter Aherne, Software Engineer, 
Motorola Ireland Ltd.
Ph: +353 21 4511234 Mobile: +353 87 2246834

-- 
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Subject: Re: [ILUG] Using Normal IDE Device with a Dell Latitude CPx laptop
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John P. Looney wrote:
>>There is absolutely no way to use a conventional 3.5" drive with a
>>laptop directly.
>  Ah, they told me that about my A1200.
> 
>  Worked a charm. Until I dropped the disk one day onto concrete.

Go on. Tell them how long the /first/ one lasted.

I vote external firewire if the laptop has the ports for it.

Paul.


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From: Philip O Brien 
To: "'ilug@linux.ie'" 
Subject: FW: [ILUG] Using Normal IDE Device with a Dell Latitude CPx lapto p
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:36:39 +0100
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I vote usb 1.1 as the chances are the cdr drive is not over 8x write and
thus fireware is of no real use...
but i cant see how you are going to get it working without a cradle. I cant
even get my dell laptop dvd drive to work
as the connectors are not the same as my cd drive ones.. seems dell cant
keep any standards going :-(


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Kelly [mailto:longword@esatclear.ie]
Sent: 28 August 2002 09:32
To: ilug@linux.ie
Subject: Re: [ILUG] Using Normal IDE Device with a Dell Latitude CPx
laptop


John P. Looney wrote:
>>There is absolutely no way to use a conventional 3.5" drive with a
>>laptop directly.
>  Ah, they told me that about my A1200.
> 
>  Worked a charm. Until I dropped the disk one day onto concrete.

Go on. Tell them how long the /first/ one lasted.

I vote external firewire if the laptop has the ports for it.

Paul.


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From: "Brian O'Donoghue" 
To: "'ilug@linux.ie'" 
Subject: RE: [ILUG] [OT] Dell machine giving me hassle.
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:56:41 +0100
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aherne Peter-pahern02 [mailto:peter.aherne@motorola.com]
> Sent: 28 August 2002 09:29
> To: 'ilug@linux.ie'
> Subject: [ILUG] [OT] Dell machine giving me hassle.
> 
> Ok, Iknow this is blatantly OT but I'm beginning to go insane.
> Had an old Dell Dimension XPS sitting in the corner and decided to
> put it to use, I know it was working pre being stuck in the
> corner, but when I plugged it in, hit the power nothing happened.
> I opened her up and had a look and say nothing much. A little orange
> LED comes on when I plug her in but that's it, after some googling
> I found some reference to re-seating all the parts, but no change.
> The problem I'm having is that since the power supply is some Dell
> specific one, ATX block with what looks like one of the old AT
> power connectors, I cant figure out weather this is a Mobo prob
> or a PSU prob. Just to futily try and drag this back OT, I want
> to install Linux on it when I get it working. If anyone knows
> what the problem might be give me a shout.


Here is what you do.

Remove all the PCI & ISA/EISA cards.
Remove the floppy disk cable from the mobo, the ide cables from the mobo...
essentially leaving only a video card... ram and a keyboard plugged in.

Turn on the system.
If it doesn't POST then, switch it off and remove the video card.

Switch it back on ... if your mobo doesn't emit some beeps complaining about
lack of video card then.

Switch it off.
Remove it's ram.

Same procedure as above.

If you still don't have any kind of mobo beep codes then you can try as a
last ditch effort to reseat the cpu... (remembering to never ever ever power
up your system without a heatsink & fan).

If after reseating the cpu into the mobo... you still get no beep codes,
from it with just the cpu inserted into the mobo ie(no pci,*isa cards or and
no actual ide or floppy cables connected to the system)... even though you
have power... you either have a faulty motherboard or a faulty cpu.

Once you get beep codes various permutations of the above should eventually
disjunct which device it is, is causing the lack of POST.
Power On Self Test.

Bod

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From: "Brian O'Donoghue" 
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Subject: RE: [ILUG] [OT] Dell machine giving me hassle.
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:59:21 +0100
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> > Ok, Iknow this is blatantly OT but I'm beginning to go insane.
> > Had an old Dell Dimension XPS sitting in the corner and decided to
> > put it to use, I know it was working pre being stuck in the
> > corner, but when I plugged it in, hit the power nothing happened.
> > I opened her up and had a look and say nothing much. A little orange
> > LED comes on when I plug her in but that's it, after some googling
> > I found some reference to re-seating all the parts, but no change.
> > The problem I'm having is that since the power supply is some Dell
> > specific one, ATX block with what looks like one of the old AT
> > power connectors, I cant figure out weather this is a Mobo prob
> > or a PSU prob. Just to futily try and drag this back OT, I want
> > to install Linux on it when I get it working. If anyone knows
> > what the problem might be give me a shout.

Ie if you are getting a little orange LED when you plug it in then your PSU
is probably working.

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John P. Looney wrote:
>  I've two directories, that once upon a time contained the same files.
> 
>  Now, they don't.
> 
>  Is there a tool to merge the two - create a new directory where if the
> files are the same, they aren't changed, if they are different, the one
> with the most recent datestamp is used...

Just for the record mc has a nice directory
comparison function. This is really nice
when using the ftp VFS for e.g. Of course
if you use something like ftpfs you can use
the previously mentioned tools.

P�draig.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0265.84c034d3d76a3d069732c02e1101fe23.eml000066400000000000000000000067551444326627400307510ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Wed Aug 28 10:49:27 2002
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From: "Carlos Luna" 
To: 
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 10:00:45 +0100
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Subject: [ILUG] PPPD disconnects on me!
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Hello folks!
I'm new to Linux, so here goes...
I've been trying to get connected to the outside world through my modem.
I've got Debian with kernel 2.4.18.
I've got this Win-Modem(yes, I know) and managed to locate a proper driver
for it.
Minicom is very much able to dial out.
But there seems to be a problem with my PPPD installation.
When I type 'ppp' in the minicom terminal, all I get (after the initial info
of my dynamic IP, etc) is a ~ and then the NO CARRIER signal.
Then I looked into calling pppd directly using chat.
I used this command:  pppd call Provider (where Provider is some script
somewhere).
It dials, it connects, it sends my username & password, and when connection
is established, it gives the SIGHUP signal and exits.
This is confirmed when me friend and I tried to connect through a serial
port using pppd to connect ttyS0.  I ran pppd waiting for a connection, me
friend tried connecting and as soon as he did, pppd exited.

Some expert help would be greatly appreciated as I'm sick and tired of
having to reboot, get into Windoze to hook up to the net and then back to
Linux, mounting this drive to get that file, etc.  It'd be nice never have
to go back to Windoze(except for games, that is).

Thanks a million.
Carlos



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0266.387a672eb91910a913cde6ebdf33ef05.eml000066400000000000000000000064551444326627400312750ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Wed Aug 28 10:49:32 2002
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From: David Neary 
To: ILUG list 
Subject: Re: [ILUG] converting strings of hex to ascii
Message-Id: <20020828110419.C7705@wanadoo.fr>
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Paul Jakma wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, David Neary wrote:
> 
> > > Actually the following would be in some way sensible:
> > > echo -e "`echo "$enc" | sed 's/%\([0-9a-fA-F]\{2,2\}\)/\\\x\1/g'`"
> > 
> > Why {2,2}? Why not {2}?
> 
> the above was something along the lines i was attempting, once i 
> realised it was a straight swap. but i couldnt get awk's gensub to 
> insert the \x for %'s and ='s.

Perl's pack() would do the job...

> > PS the late reply is because the footer on the original mail (If
> > you received this mail in error yadda yadda) got caught in my
> > spam filter, and ended up in my junkmail directory.
> 
> might not have been the footer - check my headers. :)

Actually, it was worse - a bodycheck showed up a "remove" URL. I
need a new spam filter (but I want to be able to process false
positives, rather than dump them).

Cheers,
Dave.

-- 
       David Neary,
    Marseille, France
  E-Mail: bolsh@gimp.org

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0267.218a528c448166d39f853cf75d8890dd.eml000066400000000000000000000052521444326627400310170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Wed Aug 28 10:49:36 2002
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Subject: Re: [ILUG] find the biggest file
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Inn Share wrote:
> Hi,all:
> 
> Does anyone know how to list the biggest file in my
> root directory?or the second biggest ..etc...
> 
> Because I want to find out what is the reason cause my
> root all most full.
> 
> The system is Solaris 8 Sparc.
> 
> Thanks !!!

I think everybody has their own version of this,
but in case it's useful.. (only tested on Linux):

find $* \( -type f -o -type l \) -maxdepth 1 -mindepth 1 -print0 |
xargs -r0 du -b --max-depth 0 |
sort -k1n |
grep -v "^0"

P�draig.




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0268.77ef28e27a9ee085646f260418072111.eml000066400000000000000000000061371444326627400306410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Wed Aug 28 10:49:36 2002
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To: Inn Share 
Cc: ilug@linux.ie
Subject: Re: [ILUG] find the biggest file
References: <20020827193152.56961.qmail@web13705.mail.yahoo.com>
From: Tiarnan O Corrain 
Date: 28 Aug 2002 10:14:34 +0100
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Inn Share  writes:

> Hi,all:
> 
> Does anyone know how to list the biggest file in my
> root directory?or the second biggest ..etc...
> 
> Because I want to find out what is the reason cause my
> root all most full.

find / -xdev -type f -exec du -sk {} \; | sort -rn | head -5

        -xdev will stop find recursing into other filesystems.

Cheers
Tiarnan


-- 
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Consultant / System Administrator
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Fax: +353 21 4933201

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0269.5a74b38284c7e9d85338eca0a25cb191.eml000066400000000000000000000056041444326627400311330ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Wed Aug 28 10:49:47 2002
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David Neary wrote:
> Padraig Brady wrote:
> 
>>>Paul Jakma wrote:
>>>
>>>>chars in hex to plain ASCII?
>>>>
>>>>eg given
>>>>   http://w%77%77%2Eo%70%74%6F%72%69um.n%65t/remove.html
>>>>
>>>>is there an easy way to turn it into
>>>>
>>>>   http://www.optorium.net/remove.html
>>>>eg, whether by piping through some already available tool, or 
>>>>programmatically (printf? - but i dont see how.).
>>>
>>Actually the following would be in some way sensible:
>>echo -e "`echo "$enc" | sed 's/%\([0-9a-fA-F]\{2,2\}\)/\\\x\1/g'`"
> 
> 
> Why {2,2}? Why not {2}?

Me being silly, that's all.

P�draig.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0270.5a7d9b20e00fc24d6c929c198718f5a3.eml000066400000000000000000000054111444326627400311220ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Wed Aug 28 10:49:48 2002
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 10:28:59 +0100 (IST)
From: Vanush Paturyan 
To: ilug@linux.ie
Subject: Re: [ILUG] [OT] Dell machine giving me hassle.
In-Reply-To: <496E31A690F7D311B93C0008C789494C07F08AC1@zei02exm01.cork.cig.mot.com>
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I'm not familiar with Dell Dimension XPS, and, to be honest, not familiar
with any brand-name computers. Most of my experience is China
motherboards, but I've seen same behavior once. Changing the battery helps
that time. It was big round battery with 'Panasonic' on it.
Computer starts beeping then we removed battery from MB. It even booted up
(well, loosing time and some other things).

Just my 2 cents.

Misha

On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Aherne Peter-pahern02 wrote:

> Ok, Iknow this is blatantly OT but I'm beginning to go insane.
> Had an old Dell Dimension XPS sitting in the corner and decided to
> put it to use,




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From: "David O'Callaghan" 
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Subject: Re: [ILUG] Newbie seeks advice - Suse 7.2
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On Fri, Aug 23, 2002 at 09:26:47AM +0100, Padraig Brady wrote:
[...]
> probably a bit old, 7.3 and 8.0 are out.

And I've been told by a SuSE rep that 8.1 will be out in October,
for those who are interested.

David	

-- 
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From: Matthias Saou 
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Subject: ALSA (almost) made easy
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X-Original-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 00:42:15 +0200
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 00:42:15 +0200

Hi all,

I've decided at last to test the ALSA sound drivers. As usual the result is
that I've spent much more time repackaging the darn thing than actually
testing the functionalities or trying to hear the great sound quality
people seem to think it outputs... but hey, some of you will benefit from
that, right? ;-)

I've got the whole thing working on a Valhalla system, but the packages
should easily install or at least recompile on Enigma, Limbo/(null) and
maybe others, who knows ;-)

Here are quick instructions for those of you that wish to try it out :
- Recompile the "alsa-driver" source rpm for your running kernel
  (you can install the binary package if you're using the i686 2.4.18-10)
- Install this "alsa-driver" package
- Install the "alsa-libs" package
- Install the "alsa-utils" package

Now go to this URL and find out what you need to change in your
/etc/modules.conf file to replace the default OSS driver loading :
http://www.alsa-project.org/alsa-doc/
(very complete and very good documentation!)
Hopefully you'll see that your card *is* supported ;-)

Reboot, or remove by hand your current sound modules (you'll probably need
to stop many applications to free the sound resource...) "by hand" and
insert the new ones. If all is well you've got ALSA working! ("dmesg" to
check is a good idea), you now just need to adjust the volume levels with
e.g. aumix and alsamixer because everything is muted by default.

With "aplay" you can already test files to see if you hear anything. You
can also install the XMMS plugin (seems to make my XMMS segfault on exit...
hmmm, but maybe it's another plugin) to listen to your good ol' mp3
files... that's it!

It really isn't complicated, and has never been from what I see. The only
thing I disliked was to have to install from source... but as I can't
imagine myself doing that ;-) I've repackaged everything cleanly. Even the
/dev entries are included in the rpm package (and *not* created by an ugly
%post script, I insist!) and seamlessly integrate into the /etc/makedev.d
structure. There are also a few other noticeable differences with the
default provided ALSA spec files, for example I've split alsa-lib's
development files into an alsa-lib-devel package and included static
libraries... there are others of course (oh yes, the kernel version against
which the "alsa-driver" package is compiled gets neatly integrated in the
rpm release, so does the architecture!).

I'm open to any comments or suggestions about these packages!

Download :
http://ftp.freshrpms.net/pub/freshrpms/testing/alsa/

Current spec files :
http://freshrpms.net/builds/alsa-driver/alsa-driver.spec
http://freshrpms.net/builds/alsa-lib/alsa-lib.spec
http://freshrpms.net/builds/alsa-utils/alsa-utils.spec
(All others, patches etc. : http://freshrpms.net/builds/ )

Matthias

PS: As an extra bonus, I've also recompiled xine with alsa support! Simply
run "xine -A alsa09" and off you go! It may even support 5.1 and S/PDIF ;-)

-- 
Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10
Load : 0.57 0.42 0.42, AC on-line, battery charging: 29% (1:55)

_______________________________________________
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From: "" Angles " Puglisi" 
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Subject: Re: ALSA (almost) made easy
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Matthias Saou (matthias@rpmforge.net) wrote*:
>
>You can also install the XMMS plugin
>(seems to make my XMMS segfault on exit...
>hmmm, but maybe it's another plugin) to listen to your good ol' mp3
>files... that's it!

I've an XMMS Alsa module I've been using for a while now at:
http://www.dudex.net/rpms/alsa-xmms-0.9_cvs020630-aap1.i686.rpm
http://www.dudex.net/rpms/alsa-xmms-0.9_cvs020630-aap1.src.rpm
http://www.dudex.net/rpms/alsa-xmms-0.9_cvs020630.spec

Also there is alsaplayer rpms there too:
http://www.dudex.net/rpms/alsaplayer-0.99.71-aap1.i386.rpm
http://www.dudex.net/rpms/alsaplayer-0.99.71-aap1.i686.rpm
http://www.dudex.net/rpms/alsaplayer-0.99.71-aap1.src.rpm
http://www.dudex.net/rpms/alsaplayer-0.99.71.spec

Good luck. Both were build on an RH 7.3 box with errata current as of the date of
the build. I'm running (null) RH beta now and I recall that alsa-xmms still works, I
can not remember if alsaplayer needs a --rebuild.

As an aside, alsaplayer is really maturing into a versitile app, I've been packaging
for many releases now.

I've scripted the alsa-xmms cvs build, so it's easy to spin another one if these
rpms do not work on (null).

--
That's "angle" as in geometry.



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To: "Steve Thomas" 
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X-Original-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:21:47 +0100
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:21:47 +0100


"Steve Thomas" said:

> I created a user (honeypot) and set up an alias to it. Then I added a
> 'hidden' (font color same as background color) link to that address at the
> bottom of my html pages. The .procmailrc file for that user is: .....
> which will submit the msg to razor then save it locally. I set this up about
> a month ago, and haven't received anything other than some viruses (Sircam)
> on it yet. The viruses are rejected at the MTA level, so they're not being
> saved/reported to razor.

FWIW, I would now recommend doing this (using a user with a procmailrc)
instead of a system alias; more secure, and easier to filter out crud
like bounces, virii etc. that render a corpus dirty.

--j.


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Bob Sully said:

> Spamassassin (2.30) has been tossing my daily LogWatch (3.3) reports into 
> the spam bucket.  A recent one generated the folowing hits: ....

fixed in CVS I think, or at least my logwatches get through fine.  If it
is not fixed in CVS, then report it, using the correct bug-reporting
procedure:

    1. open a Bugzilla bug. http://bugzilla.SpamAssassin.org/

    2. attach a sample mail message *as an attachment* with all
    headers intact

--j.


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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 17:44:28 +0700

While I was playing with the past issues, it annoyed me that there was
no easy way to make the log stop growing (I don't mean to truncate it,
I mean to just freeze it for a while).

The following patch adds a new button to the log window, which allows
the log to be switched on/off (the button says "Disable" when the
log is enabled, and the button disables it, and "Enable" when the log
is frozen, and the button enables it again).

kre

--- main.tcl	Wed Aug 21 15:01:48 2002
+++ /usr/local/lib/exmh-2.5/main.tcl	Wed Aug 28 17:36:59 2002
@@ -385,6 +385,9 @@
 	ExmhLogCreate
 	wm withdraw $exmh(logTop)
     }
+    if {! $exmh(logWrite)} {
+	return
+    }
     if [info exists exmh(log)] {
 	catch {
 #	    $exmh(log) insert end " [bw_delta] "
@@ -407,6 +410,9 @@
     set exmh(logWindow) 1
     Exwin_Toplevel .log "Exmh Log" Log
     set exmh(logTop) .log
+    set exmh(logDisableBut) \
+	[Widget_AddBut $exmh(logTop).but swap "Disable" ExmhLogToggle]
+    set exmh(logWrite) 1
     Widget_AddBut $exmh(logTop).but trunc "Truncate" ExmhLogTrunc
     Widget_AddBut $exmh(logTop).but save "Save To File" ExmhLogSave
     set exmh(logYview) 1
@@ -457,6 +463,12 @@
     } msg] {
 	Exmh_Status "Cannot save log: $msg" error
     }
+}
+proc ExmhLogToggle {} {
+    global exmh
+
+    set exmh(logWrite) [expr ! $exmh(logWrite)]
+    $exmh(logDisableBut) configure -text [lindex {"Enable " Disable} $exmh(logWrite)]
 }
 #### Misc
 




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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 20:42:14 +1000
Subject: [zzzzteana] Compensation for World's youngest mother
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http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/americas/08/26/peru.mother.reut/index.html

LIMA, Peru (Reuters) -- Lina Medina's parents thought their 5-year-old daughter had a huge abdominal tumor and when shamans in their remote village in Peru's Andes could find no cure, her father carried her to hospital. 

Just over a month later, she gave birth to a boy. 

Aged 5 years, seven months and 21 days old when her child was born by Caesarean section in May 1939, Medina made medical history, and is still the youngest known mother in the world. 

At the time, Peru's government promised aid that never materialized. Six decades on, Medina lives with her husband in a cramped house in a poor, crime-ridden district of the Peruvian capital known as "Little Chicago." 

Now 68, she keeps herself to herself and has long refused requests to rake up the past. Gerardo, the son she delivered while still a child herself, died in 1979 at the age of 40. 

But a new book, written by an obstetrician who has been interested in her case, has drawn fresh attention to Medina's story, and raised the prospect that the Peruvian government may belatedly offer her financial and other assistance. 

"The government condemned them to live in poverty. In any other country, they would be the objects of special care," Jose Sandoval, author of "Mother Aged 5," told Reuters. 

"We still have time to repair the damage done to her. That's my fundamental objective," he added. 

'Totally willing to help'
Sandoval has raised Medina's case with the office of first lady Eliane Karp, and has asked the government to grant her a life pension -- something officials say is possible. 

"We're totally willing to help her," said spokeswoman Marta Castaneda. But Suni Ramos, of the social action department of Karp's office, said that before the government could grant her a pension or any other of the aid it was already planning -- such as kitchen and other household equipment -- it needed to talk to her to discuss what she wanted and needed. It is currently trying to contact Medina and her family. 

Medina's husband, Raul Jurado, told Reuters his wife remained skeptical. "She got no help (in 1939) that I know about," he said. "She thinks governments never deliver. Maybe today there will be a promise that will never come true." 

Jurado said his wife, whose story is a medical textbook classic and whose case is confirmed as true by such bodies as the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, had turned down Reuters' request for an interview. 

Medical rarity
No one has ever established who was the father of Medina's child, or confirmed she became pregnant after being raped. 

One of nine children born to country folk in Ticrapo, an Andean village at an altitude of 7,400 feet (2,250 meters) in Peru's poorest province, Medina is believed to be the youngest case of precocious puberty in history, Sandoval said. 

He said she had her first period at 2 1/2, became pregnant aged 4 years and eight months and that when doctors performed the Caesarean to deliver her baby, they found she already had fully mature sexual organs. 

Her swelling stomach worried her parents. "They thought it was a tumor," he said. But shamans ruled out village superstitions -- including one in which locals believed a snake grew inside a person until it killed them -- and recommended they take her to hospital in the nearest big town, Pisco. 

There came the staggering diagnosis that she was pregnant. 

Her father was jailed temporarily on suspicion of incest -- he was later released for lack of evidence -- and doctors, police and even a film crew set off for her village for preliminary investigations into her case. 

Sandoval, who based his book on media and other published information, and some interviews with relatives as Medina herself declined to comment, said news of the child mother-to-be drew instant offers of aid, including one worth $5,000 from a U.S. businessman, which was turned down. 

More offers followed after Medina was transferred to a Lima hospital, where her fully developed 6-pound (2.7 kg) baby was born on May 14, 1939 -- Mother's Day. 

One offer was worth $1,000 a week, plus expenses, for Medina and her baby to be exhibited at the World's Fair in New York. Another, from a U.S. business that the family accepted in early June 1939, was for the pair to travel to the United States for scientists to study the case. The offer included setting up a fund to ensure their lifelong financial comfort. 

But within days, the state trumped all previous offers, decreeing that Medina and her baby were in "moral danger," and resolving to set up a special commission to protect them. 

But Sandoval said: "It abandoned the case after six months ...It did absolutely nothing for them." 

Happy ending?
Though physically mature, Medina -- who Sandoval said was mentally normal and showed no other unusual medical symptoms -- still behaved like a child, preferring to play with her dolls instead of the new baby, who was fed by a wet nurse. 

Medina stayed in hospital for 11 months, finally returning to her family after it began legal proceedings that led to a Supreme Court ruling allowing her to live with them again. 

After taunting from schoolmates, Gerardo -- who was named after one of the doctors who attended Medina and became their mentor -- discovered when he was 10 that the woman he had grown up believing to be his sister was in fact his mother. 

He died in 1979 from a disease that attacks the body's bone marrow, but Sandoval said it was not clear there was any link with his illness and the fact his mother had been so young. 

Medina married and in 1972 had a second son, 33 years after her first. Her second child now lives in Mexico. 

She appears to have turned her bizarre story into a taboo subject. "We just want to get on with our lives, that's it," said Jurado, adding he thought "absolutely nothing" of the fact his wife was the world's youngest mother. 

He said the couple's main concern now, if the government's offer of aid was genuine, was to be granted the value of a property that belonged to Medina and which the then-government expropriated more than two decades ago. That house has now been destroyed and there is a road on the site. 

He said its value was "more or less $25,000" and settling the property question would conclude a long legal battle to get back a home of their own -- they live now in a modest house, accessed down a dingy alley half blocked by a wooden board, in a tough neighborhood known to locals as a thieves' paradise. 

"If the government really wants to help...they should give us the value of our property," he said. 

As for Sandoval, he said he was optimistic that Medina's story, which he has studied since his student days, would turn out well. "I believe there will be a happy ending," he said. 

"As a result of the war, corporations have now been enthroned and an era
of corruption in high places will follow and the money-power of the
country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the
prejudices of the people until the wealth is aggregated in a few hands
and the Republic is destroyed."
Abraham Lincoln (Nov 21, 1864 in a letter to Col. William F Elkins)





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 08:01:15 -0300

Politicians worldwide are discovering the internet - what a great tool 
for fascism, once you got the laws in place to solve that whole 
'anonymity' thing. Also I notice this story shows the truth - the 
Canadian government is really located in Washington, DC, Ottawa is just 
a branch office. Come to think of it, the last story I posted about 
Canada featured the head of its military, 'speaking to us from military 
HQ  in Palm Beach, Florida.'
Owen
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.
*Will Canada's ISPs become spies?*
By Declan McCullagh 
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
August 27, 2002, 12:56 PM PT
http://news.com.com/2100-1023-955595.html 


*WASHINGTON--The Canadian government is considering a proposal that 
would force Internet providers to rewire their networks for easy 
surveillance by police and spy agencies.*

A discussion draft  
released Sunday also contemplates creating a national database of every 
Canadian with an Internet account, a plan that could sharply curtail the 
right to be anonymous online.

The Canadian government, including the Department of Justice 
 and Industry Canada 
, wrote the 21-page blueprint as a near-final step 
in a process that seeks to give law enforcement agents more authority to 
conduct electronic surveillance. A proposed law based on the discussion 
draft is expected to be introduced in Parliament late this year or in 
early 2003.

Arguing that more and more communications take place in electronic form, 
Canadian officials say such laws are necessary to fight terrorism and 
combat even run-of-the-mill crimes. They also claim that by enacting 
these proposals, Canada will be following its obligations under the 
Council of Europe's cybercrime treaty 
, which the country is in the 
process of considering.

If the discussion draft were to become law, it would outlaw the 
possession of computer viruses, authorize police to order Internet 
providers to retain logs of all Web browsing for up to six months, and 
permit police to obtain a search warrant allowing them to find "hidden 
electronic and digital devices" that a suspect might be concealing. In 
most circumstances, a court order would be required for government 
agents to conduct Internet monitoring.

Canada and the United States are nonvoting members of the Council of 
Europe, and representatives from both countries' police agencies have 
endorsed the controversial cybercrime treaty 
, which has 
drawn protests from human rights activists and civil liberties groups. 
Of nearly 50 participating nations, only Albania has formally adopted 
, 
or ratified, the treaty.

Michael Geist , a professor at the 
University of Ottawa who specializes in e-commerce law, says that the 
justification for adopting such sweeping changes to Canadian law seems 
weak.

"It seems to me that the main justification they've given for all the 
changes is that we want to ratify the cybercrime treaty and we need to 
make changes," Geist said. "To me that's not a particularly convincing 
argument. If there are new powers needed for law enforcement authority, 
make that case."

Geist added that "there's nothing in the document that indicates (new 
powers) are needed. I don't know that there have been a significant 
number of cases where police have run into problems."

Probably the most sweeping change the legal blueprint contemplates is 
compelling Internet providers and telephone companies to reconfigure 
their networks to facilitate government eavesdropping and data-retention 
orders. The United States has a similar requirement, called the 
Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act 
, but it 
applies only to pre-Internet telecommunications companies.

"It is proposed that all service providers (wireless, wireline and 
Internet) be required to ensure that their systems have the technical 
capability to provide lawful access to law enforcement and national 
security agencies," according to the proposal. Companies would be 
responsible for paying the costs of buying new equipment.

Sarah Andrews, an analyst at the Electronic Privacy Information Center 
 (EPIC) who specializes in international law, says 
the proposal goes beyond what the cybercrime treaty specifies. "Their 
proposal for intercept capability talks about all service providers, not 
just Internet providers," Andrews said. "The cybercrime treaty deals 
only with computer data." EPIC opposes 
 
the cybercrime treaty, saying it grants too much power to police and 
does not adequately respect privacy rights.

Another section of the proposal says the Canadian Association of Chiefs 
of Police recommends "the establishment of a national database" with 
personal information about all Canadian Internet users. "The 
implementation of such a database would presuppose that service 
providers are compelled to provide accurate and current information," 
the draft says.

Gus Hosein, a visiting fellow at the London School of Economics and an 
activist with Privacy International, calls the database "a dumb idea."

"Immediately you have to wonder if you're allowed to use anonymous 
mobile phones or whether you're allowed to connect to the Internet 
anonymously," Hosein said.

A representative for George Radwanski 
, Canada's privacy commissioner, said 
the office is reviewing the blueprint and does not "have any comments on 
the paper as it stands."

Comments on the proposal can be sent to la-al@justice.gc.ca 
 no later than Nov. 15.




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0279.42cd63d15451f9b7dbe750ea896ed78b.eml000066400000000000000000000061551444326627400313120ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: Steve_Burt@cursor-system.com  Wed Aug 28 12:02:23 2002
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Barbara wrote:
Pictish pictograms (still undeciphered)
-----------------------
I'd be interested in an update on the latest thinking on these things.
Particularly the 'swimming elephant' pictogram.

There's a book come out recently on the world's undeciphered scripts
(including Linear A and Etruscan).
Has any list member read it?

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--- In forteana@y..., "Martin Adamson"  wrote:
> For an alternative, and rather more factually based, rundown on 
Hamza's 
> career, including his belief that all non Muslims in Yemen should 
be murdered 
> outright:
> 
> http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=ia&ID=IA7201

And we know how unbiased MEMRI is, don't we....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,773258,00.
html

Rob


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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:01:34 +0100
Subject: [zzzzteana] Lincs lizard
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http://yorkshirepost.co.uk/scripts/editorial2.cgi?cid=news&aid=481687

2.5ft lizard 'abandoned' at resort

Holidaymakers at a seaside resort were stunned to find a 2.5ft lizard
sunning itself at a caravan park close to a beach.
The savannah monitor lizard was captured at Chapel St Leonards, Lincs, on
Sunday by a member of the public before being collected by an RSPCA team.
RSPCA officer Justin Stubbs, who took the lizard to a specialist carer,
said: "Savannah monitors can give a nasty bite and we certainly wouldn't
have wanted one loose in a busy holiday resort for long."
Officials believe the animal may have been abandoned by a private owner
because it has not been reported missing.
Savannah monitor lizards originate in Africa and are carnivorous, eating
rats and small rodents. They can grow to 4ft in length.
Anyone with information about the lizard can contact the RSPCA in confidence
on 08705 555 999.

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0282.fd87e7b9765004f6123ebe981bc16a1c.eml000066400000000000000000000112431444326627400312050ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: timc@2ubh.com  Wed Aug 28 13:03:49 2002
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Subject: [zzzzteana] Hot rock
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http://yorkshirepost.co.uk/scripts/editorial2.cgi?cid=news&aid=481620

Close encounter of burnt kind

IT came from outer space � or did it? Teenager Siobhan Cowton is convinced
the object which struck her as she climbed into the family car at her home
in Northallerton is extra-terrestrial.
But while her claims are being treated with a certain amount of studied
academic scepticism by experts in these matters, the 14-year-old schoolgirl
is adamant she was hit on the foot by a meteorite.
Siobhan initially thought there was a more prosaic explanation � that the
odd-looking stone had been thrown at her by a child,.
But on closer inspection, she discovered all was not as it seemed � because
it was hot when she picked it up. It hit her on a foot but caused no injury.
"I looked at it again and it had a black and grey colour with a shiny bubble
surface," she said.
After closer inspection by her father Niel, and comparison with pictures on
the Internet, Siobhan plans to ask scientists at Durham University to check
the object for authenticity.
If it is from outer space, Siobhan says she will consider putting it up for
auction.
She added: "If it isn't worth anything then I suppose I will keep it myself
for sentimental value. It is not every day that you are hit by a meteorite."
But Dr Ben Horton, a lecturer in physical geography, was the acme of
academic caution.
"Meteors have features that can be used to establish whether it is a piece
of extraterrestrial rock," he said.
"They have a very smooth surface but sometimes they have shallow depressions
and cavities. If they are hot, they should have a black ash like crust burnt
around the edge.
"Most are between five and 60 centimetres but five centimetres is the
smallest that they usually appear."
To establish the provenance of Siobhan's suspected meteorite it would have
to be subject to a mineral breakdown but Dr Horton thinks the chances of it
being extra-terrestrial are slim.
"Around 50,000 a year strike the Earth's surface and, considering the size
of the Earth, it is very unlikely to be a meteorite.
"However, there is a possibility and there is no reason it couldn't happen,"
he added. 

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0283.469fc9946c6d920af042b022bd63a2f9.eml000066400000000000000000000075371444326627400311360ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: martin@srv0.ems.ed.ac.uk  Wed Aug 28 13:34:43 2002
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:32:56 +0100
Subject: [zzzzteana] 'Lost' penguins found alive
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Evening Standard - 28 August 2002

[Deft use of Fortean Unit of Measurement in 2nd para - MA]

 'Lost' penguins found alive
 
 by Charles Miranda

 A colony of emperor penguins which was thought to have starved to death in
 Antarctica has been found alive in a "big huddle". 

 The birds were spotted by the crew of a USAF jet returning to base in New
 Zealand. Researchers had feared that a breakaway iceberg the size of Jamaica
 had all but wiped out the colony at Cape Crozier on Ross Island. 
 
 Thousands of chicks are believed to have died as an increase in sea ice made
 it impossible for the adults to find food. A detailed count is planned in
 October. Antarctica (New Zealand) chief executive Lou Sanson said: "The
 penguins were in a big huddle. We can now hope that the emperors have had a
 successful breeding season over the winter." 
 
 Some 1,000 pairs of emperors - the largest penguins in the world at 3.3ft tall
 and 88lb - usually nest at Cape Crozier, 50 miles from the US McMurdo research
 station. The 200,000-strong Adelie penguin colony, which also nests at the
 cape, may have lost up to third of its population. 


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0284.4af1f0641ea6aae6a9645dcbeabe95e9.eml000066400000000000000000000060041444326627400315600ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Wed Aug 28 13:45:01 2002
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From: Axel Thimm 
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X-Original-Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 14:32:35 +0200
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 14:32:35 +0200

Hi,

some time now the following messages were haunting me:

     automount[11593]: attempting to mount entry /home/dude

It just came to my attention, that only freshrpm benefitting hosts showed this
up. I grepped through the binaries and found referrences to /home/dude.

# grep /home/dude /usr/bin/*
Binary file /usr/bin/aaxine matches
Binary file /usr/bin/gentoo matches
Binary file /usr/bin/gphoto2 matches
Binary file /usr/bin/gtkam matches
...

I am now relaxed again ;), and pass this info on. Probably Matthias Saou
himself is "dude", and some package has hardwired a path in his build
directory. It would be nice to find out which and fix it, but I am using too
many of the freshrpm suite to narrow it down.

Regards, Axel.
-- 
Axel.Thimm@physik.fu-berlin.de

_______________________________________________
RPM-List mailing list 
http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0285.c50f8a5a908e21636fe71e522c3e462a.eml000066400000000000000000000114401444326627400311160ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: andy@r2-dvd.org  Wed Aug 28 13:55:25 2002
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:47:35 +0100
Subject: [zzzzteana] Big cats 'on the increase'
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2220922.stm


Big cats are on the loose in Britain and breeding their way towards record
numbers, a monitoring group has claimed. 
The British Big Cats Society said it has received more than 800 reports of
animals including pumas, black panthers, leopards and so-called Fen tigers
over the past 12 months. 

And while it admits that many sightings are of nothing more exotic than the
average moggy, it claims to have "firm evidence" that the majority are real.


Society founder Daniel Bamping told BBC News Online he could cope with the
critics and doubters, adding: "I was a sceptic, I thought it was in the same
realm as the Loch Ness monster. 

"But it's not, they are really out there." 

'Cats with cubs' 

Mr Bamping said there have been reports of big cats from every corner of the
country. 

Big cat reports  
Hotspots include Scotland and Gloucestershire 
January 2002 - Kent man clawed by suspected Lynx 
November 2001 - farmer reports animals mauled by big cat 
April 2001 - Lynx captured in north London 
1999 - Puma-like cat attacks horse in Wales  
"This weekend alone I have had sightings from Wales, the Scottish borders,
Kent, the West Midlands, Devon, Somerset and Wiltshire," he said. 

The society claims some of the big cats are breeding with domestic animals. 

But Mr Bamping said others, particularly lynx and puma, probably exist in
sufficient numbers to breed among themselves. 

"We have had sightings of cats with cubs," he added. 

'Trigger camera' 

The society claims to have evidence proving the cats' existence, including
photographs, paw prints, sheep kills and hair samples. 

But it knows it will have to do even more to convince a sceptical public
that it is not spinning them a shaggy cat story. 

A national "trigger camera" project is planned which, the society hopes,
will provide footage to prove the existence of the big cats. 

Mr Bamping said: "The idea is that the cat will walk past the camera and
take a picture of itself." 

'Like dogs' 

The society believes many of the sighting are of pets released into the
wild, or their descendants. 

Its spokesman Danny Nineham said: "In the 1960s and 1970s, people had big
cats like leopards as pets and they used to walk them like dogs. 

"But in 1976 when the Dangerous Wild Animals Act came into force, people
released their cats because they did not want to pay for a licence, put them
down, or take them to a zoo."

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0286.25aefc468274fe144edb1ee788d6c999.eml000066400000000000000000000115351444326627400313240ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: andy@r2-dvd.org  Wed Aug 28 13:55:26 2002
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:50:58 +0100
Subject: [zzzzteana] US Army tests portable translator
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2219079.stm

US soldiers on peacekeeping duties in the future could find that a portable
translation device will be an essential part of their equipment. 
Scientists at Carnegie Mellon University have developed a prototype of a
speech translator that was road-tested by US Army chaplains in Croatia. 

"This project shows how a relatively simple speech-to-speech translation
system can be rapidly and successfully constructed using today's tools,"
said the team from Carnegie Mellon University in a research paper published
recently. 

The research was commissioned by the US Army, which is increasingly finding
itself in peace-keeping roles where communication is key. 

Speaking in tongues 

"In the Balkans, the Army is not just supposed to conquer somebody," Robert
Frederking of Carnegie Mellon University told the BBC programme Go Digital. 

 
Translators could be essential for US soldiers
 
"In a peacekeeping situation, you have two guys trying to beat each other up
and you are holding them apart. 

"You can't just shot one of them, you have to figure what is going on and
talk to them," he said. 

The portable translator was developed with a year, using commercially
available laptops. 

The Army did not want to field-test the device in a battlefield situation.
So instead the translator was tested by US Army chaplains in Croatia. 

"The chaplains very often end up having to talk to foreign nationals and
typically don't have any translation support," explained Mr Frederking. 

Slow system 

For the trials, the chaplains used the translator to speak to Croatians who
knew just a smattering of English. 

The system works by having a speech recogniser that picks up the words in
Croatian, turns the speech into text. The written words are then translated
into English and read out by a speech synthesizer. 

"It went reasonably well half the time," said Mr Frederking, though it was
slow in translating phrases. 

The research team admit that the system is not ready to be deployed in the
field. 

But they say their trials showed that a portable translator could be made to
work with further research and development. 

The Audio Voice Translation Guide System project was a joint venture between
the US Army, the military manufacturer Lockheed Martin and Carnegie Mellon
University. 


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0287.18f9a821d67a503c0d54a2356a0f8a4a.eml000066400000000000000000000077411444326627400311170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: timc@2ubh.com  Wed Aug 28 13:55:30 2002
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:55:54 +0100
Subject: [zzzzteana] Worryingly sophisticated bees
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Ananova:� 
Brazilian bees keep their own 'insect ranch'

Scientists have found a new species of bee that behaves like a farmer by
keeping herds of insects.
The Amazonian Schwarzula use their own 'insect ranches' to provide food and
building materials.
The bees nest in holes in trees alongside 200 aphid-like insects from a
species called cryptostigma.
Cryptostigma feed on tree sap and excrete a sugar solution, which the bees
stop them from drowning in, by licking it up and turning it into honey.
The insects also produce wax from glands on their backs, which the bees
scrape off and use for their nest.
Nature reports it is the first time farming behaviour has been discovered in
bees.
Biologist Joao Camargo, of the University of Sao Paulo in Brazil, said: "In
turn the bees provide the insects with sanitary benefits and protection."
Writing in the journal Biotropica, Camargo says the bees might even carry
their insect ranches around the forest with them and is planning further
research on how they tend to their herd.
Studies of the Schwarzula showed the bees seemed to get most of their sugar
from the insect farms. Some bees were seen licking human sweat for salt.
Story filed: 13:49 Wednesday 28th August 2002

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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 13:54:36 +0100
Subject: [zzzzteana] Betamax finally laid to rest
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Not fortean, but a moment in time all the same...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/2220972.stm


Betamax video recorders are finally being phased out almost 20 years after
losing the battle for dominance of the home video market to VHS. 
Betamax's manufacturer, Sony, has announced that it will make only 2,000
more machines for the Japanese market. 

They have not been on sale in the rest of the world since 1998. 

 
VHS became the dominant format by the mid-1980s
 
Betamax was launched in 1975, and won many fans who said it was better
quality than its VHS rival. 

Some 2.3 million Betamax machines were sold worldwide in its peak year,
1984, but it soon went downhill as VHS became the format of choice for the
film rental industry and in homes. 

Just 2,800 machines were sold in the 12 months to March 2002. 

"With digital machines and other new recording formats taking hold in the
market, demand has continued to decline and it has become difficult to
secure parts," Sony said in a statement. 

Sony said it would continue to offer repairs and manufacture tapes for the
format. 

The professional Betamax format, Betacam, is still widely used in the
television and film industries and will be unaffected. 

But the recent rise of DVDs seems to have put the final nail in the coffin
for Betamax home players. 

In the 1980s, many video rental chains preferred the VHS format. 

Betamax lovers became so passionate about the format in the face of
competition from VHS that they set up the Betaphile Club in 1988. 

The picture and sound quality of Beta was superior to VHS, Betaphiles say,
although VHS tapes had a longer duration. 

A total of 18 million Betamax machines were sold around the world, but no
new ones will be made after the end of 2002. 

Sony is now planning to focus its efforts on new digital technologies. 
  See also:


 


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0289.cb9c0595bddae2c25357ce5c9fbaf687.eml000066400000000000000000000050471444326627400315260ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Wed Aug 28 13:55:22 2002
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From: "HAMILTON,DAVID (HP-Ireland,ex2)" 
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Subject: [ILUG] Hayes Accura ISDN PCI
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Does anyone know if this is supported under 2.4.18 kernels or higher?

I need to buy an ISDN TA quick, and PC World have these in stock for �65.

Thanks,
	David.

David Hamilton
Senior Technical Consultant
HP Ireland 

-- 
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0290.3dc3f5442e351aea16d027b6c5a44e65.eml000066400000000000000000000044221444326627400311620ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Wed Aug 28 14:05:36 2002
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ive just gotton myself a modem (no its not a winmodem, yes im sure) it dials
the internet grant using the RedHat PPP Dialer... and i can ping the server
i dial into but i cant get any furthur than that server? any ideas?


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0291.b37f92cfbb14d2f6a43c705ef7381702.eml000066400000000000000000000065651444326627400312100ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: Stewart.Smith@ee.ed.ac.uk  Wed Aug 28 14:15:58 2002
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 14:14:45 +0100
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Martin Adamson wrote:>>And we know how unbiased MEMRI is, don't we....
>>
> 
> Oh, of course, you're right, any information not coming from a source that 
> fits your pre-conceived world view can simply be dismissed out of hand.
> 
> Martin
> 

For goddess' sake Martin that seems to be exactly what you're doing.  You 
started your reply to Tim's posting of the Guardian article by suggesting that 
it was factually inaccurate.  Did you actually read it or did you just assume 
that if the Grauniad writes about a Muslim extremist they must be making him out 
as an all round nice guy?

Stewart
-- 
Stewart Smith
Scottish Microelectronics Centre, University of Edinburgh.
http://www.ee.ed.ac.uk/~sxs/


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Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 16:50:38 -0500
Subject: [zzzzteana] Re: Cincinnati Group Wants To Stamp Out Hotel Sex Movies
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>
>>  (CNSNews.com) - A pro-family group in Cincinnati that has pressured
>>  two area hotels to stop showing adult pay-per-view movies has vowed
>to
>>  expand its grass- roots campaign nationwide.
>
>
>Quite right. And while they're at it, they can get that bunch of
>religious nuts to stop sneaking their book of hate and intolerence
>into the bedside cabinets, you know, that one with all the telephone
>humbers in it.
>
>Oh, and the Gideon Society can take their bibles back as well.
>
>RobinH
>

What are you talking about??? That book is where all the best free porn is!!

Piece of trivia: the thing is so pithy it floats!!
-- 


Fel
http://www.frogstone.net
Weird Page: http://my.athenet.net/~felinda/WeirdPage.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0293.24bc65777fdb12d17b16e3976c1f7c17.eml000066400000000000000000000120701444326627400311300ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: sentto-2242572-53806-1031307758-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com  Fri Sep  6 11:48:22 2002
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the latest -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/2240487.stm

Friday, 6 September, 2002, 08:53 GMT 09:53 UK
Zimbabwe eases GM stance

Zimbabwe has dropped objections to accepting genetically modified (GM) grain
so that urgently-needed food aid can be delivered, says the UN food agency.
The executive director of the World Food Programme, James Morris, said
Zimbabwe's decision would send an important message to other countries in
the region which have refused food aid because it might contain GM grain.
Until now, Zimbabwe had said it would only allow aid workers to distribute
ground maize to allay fears that GM grain could be planted.
But a Zimbabwean minister says the government has now set up a system of
checks to ensure the grain will not enter the eco-system.
There have been fears that Southern African nations could lose lucrative
export markets in Europe if they cannot certify that their crops are
GM-free.
Aid
Mr Morris announced the policy reversal after talks in Harare with
Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe.
"The fact that they have now concluded that they are comfortable in
accepting GM crops or commodities will be an important signal to other
countries in the region," Mr Morris told journalists.
"It will enable us to do our job," he said.
Aid workers say up to 13 million people in seven countries in Southern
Africa face famine. In Zimbabwe which was once the bread basket of the
region, some six million people are estimated to need food aid.
The WFP says it already has aid pledges for about half of the 600,000 tonnes
of food it intends to bring into Zimbabwe in the next few months.
The government blames the shortages solely on drought, but the government's
campaign to transfer land from large scale commercial white farmers has
worsened the situation, say many donors.
Lost markets
The GM row has complicated relief efforts across the region.
Zambia's president is refusing to overturn his ban on GM food aid, labelling
it as 'poison' .
Deals to mill GM food before being distributed, so that it could not be
planted, have placated fears in Malawi and Mozambique.
United States aid officials deny that the food is unsafe, pointing out that
Americans eat GM maize every day.
The World Health Organisation has certified the grain for human consumption
and says it does not constitute a danger to people's health.

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Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 16:57:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [zzzzteana] Frog Fall at Cheapside
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Near the end of his *Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the
Madness of Crowds* (1851), Charles Mackay discusses various catch phrases
briefly popular in mid-19th-century London. One of them, he observes,
"like a mushroom, seems to have sprung up in the night, or, like a frog in
Cheapside, to have come down in a sudden shower. One day it was unheard,
unknown, uninvented; the next it pervaded London."

Was "like a frog in Cheapside" (or something similar) a catch phrase
itself, or did Mackay come up with the simile on his own?

And to what event or events does it refer?

I didn't find anything relevant in Partridge's *A Dictionary of Catch
Phrases.*

bc




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Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 22:54:52 +0100
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Bill:
> I've decided that I ought to put some of my writing samples on-line for
> potential employers to mock. And I don't want to pay for it. There are still
> a couple dozen places to do this, do any of you have preferences?
>
Getting your own domain needn't be expensive, looks more professional, and
you're not going to suddenly lose your site with little or no notice (yes,
I'm still smarting from bastard Geocities). I registered mine through
http://www.easyspace.com/ - works out about a pound a week for registration
and 30Mb hosting. It's a valuable service, there's no reason not to expect
to pay.

TimC

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Of course, everyone knows that Owlman is a work of fuggin` genius

J




> Hey, I met the wizard bloke from Owlman, who wants to touch me!!
> 
> Dave



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Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:30:04 +0100
Subject: [zzzzteana] Scissors are a snip for Third World
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The Times

 September 06, 2002
 
 Scissors are a snip for Third World
 From Richard Owen in Rome
 
 
 
 IT IS one of the unanswered questions of the past year: what happens to the
 millions of nail scissors confiscated by airport security officials from
 passengers� hand luggage? Most are thrown away or recycled after being seized
 as part of security measures since September 11. But an enterprising chaplain
 is sending them to Catholic missionaries for distribution to Third World
 hospitals and clinics. In theory travellers who have left nail scissors, nail
 files, corkscrews or manicure sets from their hand luggage can arrange for
 them to be returned. In practice many just shrug and leave the scissors by the
 X-ray scanners. 
 
 Father Arturo Rossini, chaplain of Malpensa airport in Milan, said that
 scissors were costly or unavailable in many parts of Africa, Asia and Latin
 America. 
 
 He told Corriere della Sera that he had �plucked up the courage� to ask the
 authorities if he could have the confiscated scissors. With the help of a
 retired airport policeman, he had packaged 60,000 nail scissors and manicure
 sets, using the airport chapel as a packing centre. 
 
 Packages were shipped in aircraft holds to Peru, Brasil, India, Mozambique,
 Argentina, Zambia and Kenya. �In such countries, what we think of as a
 personal grooming accessory can be a vital tool.� 
 
 The idea has been taken up at other Italian airports. 
 
 


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> Zimbabwe has dropped objections to accepting genetically modified (GM) grain
> so that urgently-needed food aid can be delivered, says the UN food agency.

Yes, confirming what I said in my last message. Ah! I see where the problem 
lies! You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that Zimbabwe and 
Zambia are the same country. 

Martin

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Martin:
> Yes, confirming what I said in my last message. Ah! I see where the problem
> lies! You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that Zimbabwe and
> Zambia are the same country.
>
No, that would be rather silly. There are conflicting reports on whether
Zambia is prepared to accept milled GM grain or not - and, from reports from
various sources, considerable debate within that country. There's complex
issues, not all of which can be dismissed by blaming those nasty
environmentalists, which was my original point.

TimC

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Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 11:32:57 +0100
Subject: [zzzzteana] Hitler-style applicant welcomed by parties
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The Times
 
 
 September 06, 2002
 
 Hitler-style applicant welcomed by parties
 By Roger Boyes
 
 
 
 MANAGERS of Germany�s political parties are having difficulty explaining their
 enthusiastic reaction to a man who applied for membership with letters cribbed
 largely from Mein Kampf, Hitler�s personal manifesto. The incident illustrates
 how indiscriminate parties have become in taking on new members during an
 election campaign, even when their sentiments bear a suspicious resemblance to
 those of the F�hrer. 
 
 �Edmund Stoiber is a thousand times more suited to leading Germany than the
 present Chancellor,� said one letter sent to the Christian Social Union
 headquarters in Ingolstadt. �Chancellor Schr�der is doing nothing to stop the
 flood of foreigners who are spreading around our Fatherland,� said the letter,
 signed by a certain Rudolph Lewald. 
 
 The CSU immediately spotted a potential member. �Many thanks for your nice
 thoughts,� replied the local party manager, who enclosed an application for
 membership. 
 
 The letter used chunks of Hitler�s book, which is still banned in Germany.
 History students have to apply for access to the book in university libraries.
 
 
 �The strongest, the brave and the hardworking will receive the birthright of
 existence, only those who are born weaklings could regard this as offensive,�
 the letter-writer said. �So-called humanity is melting like snow in the March
 sun.� Such phrases were lifted from Mein Kampf, which was written while Hitler
 was in jail after the failed Munich putsch of 1923. 
 
 Similar letters, also using the Nazi leader�s words, were sent to the other
 political parties and drew sympathetic responses. �I read your letter with
 great interest and pleasure,� the manager of the Christian Democratic Union in
 Cologne, said. 
 
 �Great that you want to join us!� enthused the Green Party headquarters. The
 Free Democrats invited the aspiring party member to a fundraising charity ball
 at which Hans- Dietrich Genscher, the former Foreign Minister, would be the
 star guest. The Social Democrats sent a list of rallies to be attended by
 Gerhard Schr�der, the Chancellor. 
 
 �I wanted to test how serious parties are about combating right-wing
 extremism,� said the letter-writer, who was in fact the Cologne novelist
 Rainer Popp. �I had no idea that they would be so enthusiastic. 
 
 �For the first few days I expected two men in leather coats from the Special
 Branch to knock on my door. Instead only the postman called � with packets of
 election material from zealous political headquarters,� Herr Popp said. 
 
 �I was stunned that political parties could react in this way � I reckon I
 would have had the same response if I had signed the letter �Adolf Hitler�.�
 
 
 


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Hi all,

Saw this on the register this morning,
http://theregister.co.uk/content/6/26983.html, and they support ISDN dual
channel. Whoo Hoo!

CW

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Quoting Waider (waider@waider.ie):

> Niall Sheridan wrote:
> | A power cycle will do it.
> | Other than that it's chipset specific.
> 
> sure. tried powercycling an internal modem recently? :)
> 
> Waider. This is Rick Moen bait.

Thanks.  It was delicious.  ;->

-- 
Cheers,               "That article and its poster have been cancelled." 
Rick Moen                   -- David B. O'Donnel, sysadmin for America Online
rick@linuxmafia.com

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On 0020 +0100 %{!Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 11:53:32PM +0100}, Darragh wrote:
> the help that I received today.  Then though I tried to build them.  I
> started by trying the w3 program.  I used the following lines which produced
> some strange results.  Would any one be able to set me straight?
> 
> ./configure --with-emacs --prefix=/usr/local/src/beta/w3 --exec-prefix=/usr/
> local/src/beta/w3 --with-url=/url/url
One thing I _think_ you might be doing slightly wrong is your
specification of prefixes.  --prefix is the directory to be used as root
for _installing_ files.  Typically packages use /usr/local as default
(so binaries might then go in /usr/local/bin, documentation in
/usr/local/doc and so forth).
Normally, I find it sufficient to put --prefix=/usr/local, and do not
further specify things like --exec-prefix.

Maybe you have a special reason for using the prefixes you chose, in
which case ignore me!
> That worked fine so I moved to the next step.
> make
> At the bottem of the text I got the following messages:
> Cannot open load file: /url/url/url-vars.el
> make[1]: *** [custom-load.el] Error 255
> make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/src/beta/w3/lisp'
> make: *** [w3] Error 2
> 
> When I got around to trying the url package I had no problems.  In saying
> that this doesn't necessarily mean that I was doing it right so below are
> the commands I used.
> ./configure --with-emacs --prefix=/url/url --exec-prefix=/url/url
I'd make the same remarks about prefixes here.  I would use the command
    ./configure --with-emacs --prefix=/usr/local

To get w3 to compile, I think the with-url flag you should use is
    --with-url=/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp/
(Assuming you compiled/installed url with --prefix=/usr/local
Since you appear to have installed url in /url/url, configure w3 with
./configure --with-emacs --prefix=/usr/local/ --with-url=/url/url/share/emacs/site-lisp

A command you would have found useful would have been
    find / -name 'url-vars.el' -print
Which would have told you where the url-vars.el file was installed.

A program which is very useful is checkinstall
http://asic-linux.com.mx/~izto/checkinstall/
It allows you to install packages from source while still registering
them in the package management system of your distro (rpm,deb,tgz).
Instead of "make install" type "checkinstall", and a package is put
together and installed for you.  Makes uninstallation simpler than it
might otherwise be.
-- 
Michael Conry   Ph.:+353-1-7161987, Web: http://www.acronymchile.com
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From: "Darragh" 
To: 
References: <5FE418B3F962D411BED40000E818B33C9C8FEC@HASSLE>
Subject: RE: [ILUG] Newby to Linux looking for information on cvs
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 23:53:32 +0100
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Hello all,
Firstly I'd like to thank all of you for the fast and very helpful feedback
that I got to my question today.  I have one more question though.  I
downloaded the w3 and url files from the server at the first try thanks to
the help that I received today.  Then though I tried to build them.  I
started by trying the w3 program.  I used the following lines which produced
some strange results.  Would any one be able to set me straight?

./configure --with-emacs --prefix=/usr/local/src/beta/w3 --exec-prefix=/usr/
local/src/beta/w3 --with-url=/url/url
That worked fine so I moved to the next step.
make
At the bottem of the text I got the following messages:
Cannot open load file: /url/url/url-vars.el
make[1]: *** [custom-load.el] Error 255
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/local/src/beta/w3/lisp'
make: *** [w3] Error 2

When I got around to trying the url package I had no problems.  In saying
that this doesn't necessarily mean that I was doing it right so below are
the commands I used.
./configure --with-emacs --prefix=/url/url --exec-prefix=/url/url
followed by the commands make and make install.
There is no text files which contain help on installing the url package so
I'm not completely certain if I've used the right method here.

Thanks again

Darragh
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hunt, Bryan" 
To: ; 
Cc: 
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 5:08 PM
Subject: OT: RE: [ILUG] Newby to Linux looking for information on cvs


>
> speaking of that IDE (weblogic developer) the open source version called
> eclipse is free from eclipse.org If you are doing java development you
> need to get this IDE . I've been using it for the last month and it is
> absolutly superb. Best thing about it is that rather than using swing
> (which is crap) is that they have their own native widget set called swt.
>
> When you run it on windows it uses windows widgets but when you run it on
> linux it uses gtk, you should see it on gnome 2 ! Absolutely stunning !
>
> --B
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Justin MacCarthy [mailto:macarthy@iol.ie]
> Sent: 05 September 2002 16:53
> To: michael.conry@ucd.ie
> Cc: ilug@linux.ie
> Subject: RE: [ILUG] Newby to Linux looking for information on cvs
>
>
> This is the best step by step guide to setting up cvs on Redhat..
>
>
http://www7b.software.ibm.com/wsdd/library/techarticles/0205_yu/yu.html?open
> &l=456,t=gr
>
> It is for a particular IBM ide, but the setup and testing of the server is
> the same for any CVS client
>
> Both The "Using Linux" and "Linux in a nutshell" book by Oreilly have
> sections on cvs /rcs , and both books are a must buy for any linux newbie
>
>
> Justin
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ilug-admin@linux.ie [mailto:ilug-admin@linux.ie]On Behalf Of
> > Michael Conry
> > Sent: 05 September 2002 16:34
> > To: Darragh
> > Cc: ilug@linux.ie
> > Subject: Re: [ILUG] Newby to Linux looking for information on cvs
> >
> >
> > On 0020 +0100 %{!Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at  3:55:16PM +0100}, Darragh wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > > I am very new to Linux and need some help on a utility called
> > cvs.  As far
> > > as I'm aware its a similar protocol to FTP.  I need to use it
> > to download a
> > > program from :pserver:anoncvs@subversions.gnu.org:/cvsroot/w3.
> > I am looking
> > > for information on how to use it.  I'll have another look at
> > the man pages
> > > but I think I have to set it up before I can download anything.
> > cvs is really a very different kind of thing to FTP, but the details of
> > that statement are left as an exercise to the reader (won't show up my
> > own ignorance that way ;-)
> > The application you want is cvsclient...
> > There is documentation here:
> > http://www.fokus.gmd.de/gnu/docs/cvs/cvsclient_toc.html
> >
> > You might get a quick idea of how it works from here:
> > http://www.sci.muni.cz/~mikulik/gnuplot.html
> > where he explains how to get cvs gnuplot...
> > The commands are:
> >
> > export
> > CVSROOT=:pserver:anonymous@cvs.gnuplot.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/gnuplot
> > cvs login
> > cvs -z3 checkout gnuplot
> >
> > Something similar will probably do the job for you.  I'm guessing the
> > following MIGHT work...
> >
> > export CVSROOT=:pserver:anoncvs@subversions.gnu.org:/cvsroot/w3
> > cvs login
> > cvs -z3 checkout w3
> >
> > m
> > --
> > Michael Conry   Ph.:+353-1-7161987, Web: http://www.acronymchile.com
> > Key fingerprint = 5508 B563 6791 5C84 A947  CB01 997B 3598 09DE 502C
> >
> > --
> > Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie
> > http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription
> > information.
> > List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie
> http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription
information.
> List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie
>
> --
> Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie
> http://www.linux.ie/mailman/listinfo/ilug for (un)subscription
information.
> List maintainer: listmaster@linux.ie
>


-- 
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0305.99f57ae578aceda0433b60cb35fd4ea2.eml000066400000000000000000000053561444326627400314230ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Fri Sep  6 11:40:19 2002
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Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 17:38:11 -0700
To: irish linux users group 
Cc: kevin+dated+1031593647.e87527@ie.suberic.net
Subject: Re: [ILUG] windows users accessing cvs...
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Quoting kevin lyda (kevin+dated+1031593647.e87527@ie.suberic.net):

> anyone here have experience with windows cvs clients accessing a cvs
> server *securely*.  preferably using ssh of some form (putty or cygwin's
> openssh port) and the wincvs client?

Here's something I cobbled together:
http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=9026&group_id=13487

-- 
Cheers,           "I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate
Rick Moen         those who do.  And, for the people who like country music,
rick@linuxmafia.com         denigrate means 'put down'."      -- Bob Newhart

-- 
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0306.7e8d58915713dcad975ed5591b31bdf4.eml000066400000000000000000000105741444326627400312240ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Fri Sep  6 11:40:51 2002
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Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 15:17:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: eric nichols 
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Subject: [ILUG] PCTel modules
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Hello again. I tried all the suggestions for the PCTel driver and at the end of it, everything still goes smoothly until I type "make" after I get the output from the ./configure. 

However, there were a couple of things I noticed along the way. After typing 
* cp configs/kernel-2.4...config .config
* make oldconfig
* make dep
The 2nd to last line I got back said that the modversions.h file was not updated. When I looked at this path to the modversions.h file, it was 281 lines and every line started with a # mark. Is it the case that nothing is read on a line after a # mark (or am I just thinking of another language?) and so should I delete the # at certain places?

Also, when I was in the pctel directory and typed "make", I noticed that a different subdirectory is taken to a different modversions.h file. Inside this other file, there's nothing at all. And so I moved the modversions.h file with 281 lines to the empty modversions.h file - and got a different reply after "make". The output after I moved the file over mostly looked like this:
/usr/src/linux-2.4.18-3/linux/modversions.h:11:33: linux/modules/adb.ver: No such file or directory
/usr/src/linux-2.4.18-3/linux/modversions.h:12:37: linux/modules/af_ax25.ver: No such file or directory
/usr/src/linux-2.4.18-3/linux/modversions.h:13:36: linux/modules/af_ipx.ver: No such file or directory

The odd lines being the path and the first half of the other lines are what's written after the # in the modversions.h file. Should there be a file at each of these (one at each of the 281 lines of the file) that I'd have to compile/make?

It's taken plenty of elbow grease, but I'm glad it hasn't gone smoothly, it's a good learning experience. Again, any help is appreciated. Thanks, Eric

_____________________________________________________________
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-- 
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0307.d7beae100d2ee2557b7fed18b6050a49.eml000066400000000000000000000134661444326627400313350ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Fri Sep  6 11:40:30 2002
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Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 00:50:13 +0100
From: Michael Conry 
To: eric nichols 
Cc: ilug@linux.ie
Subject: Re: [ILUG] PCTel modules
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On 0020 -0700 %{!Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at  3:17:36PM -0700}, eric nichols wrote:
> Hello again. I tried all the suggestions for the PCTel driver and at
> the end of it, everything still goes smoothly until I type "make"
> after I get the output from the ./configure. 
> 
> However, there were a couple of things I noticed along the way. After typing 
> * cp configs/kernel-2.4...config .config
> * make oldconfig
> * make dep
> The 2nd to last line I got back said that the modversions.h file was
> not updated. When I looked at this path to the modversions.h file, it
> was 281 lines and every line started with a # mark.
> Is it the case
> that nothing is read on a line after a # mark (or am I just thinking
> of another language?) and so should I delete the # at certain places?
No that is appropriate content for the file.  I'm not a C programmer,
but I think that these sort of things (#include ) are
instructions to the compiler processed by a pre-processor in the compile
process, and include all sorts of symbols/functions
e.g. "#include " gives you maths type functions.  Since they
start with "#" they are ignored in the final compilation.

Regarding the rest of the compile process, you need to tell the PCtel
software to look in the right place for the kernel headers/source. 
I recall from your previous mail that there was a flag
    --with-kernel-includes=/usr/src/linux-2.4
which could be passed to the ./configure script (with the appropriate
directory in place of /usr/src/linux-2.4).  This might allow you to
persuade the code to compile against the correct headers.  I think this
is the right way to proceed.

Alternatively, maybe the steps above regarding "make dep" and so forth
should have been performed in the directory where the make process is
looking for modversions.h & Co.

I don't think it is a good idea keep moving files into the directory as
you describe below.  First of all you will move modversions.h (which you
have done), then you would have to move all those *.ver files, after
that, there will almost certainly be a need for further header (*.h)
files.  This could be quickly done, but is probably bad (those files
don't really belong there).

For what it's worth I think you are very close to a successful
compilation.

m

> 
> Also, when I was in the pctel directory and typed "make", I noticed
> that a different subdirectory is taken to a different modversions.h
> file. Inside this other file, there's nothing at all. And so I moved
> the modversions.h file with 281 lines to the empty modversions.h file
> - and got a different reply after "make". The output after I moved the
> file over mostly looked like this:
> /usr/src/linux-2.4.18-3/linux/modversions.h:11:33:
> linux/modules/adb.ver: No such file or directory
> /usr/src/linux-2.4.18-3/linux/modversions.h:12:37:
> linux/modules/af_ax25.ver: No such file or directory
> /usr/src/linux-2.4.18-3/linux/modversions.h:13:36:
> linux/modules/af_ipx.ver: No such file or directory
> 
> The odd lines being the path and the first half of the other lines are
> what's written after the # in the modversions.h file. Should there be
> a file at each of these (one at each of the 281 lines of the file)
> that I'd have to compile/make?

-- 
Michael Conry   Ph.:+353-1-7161987, Web: http://www.acronymchile.com
Key fingerprint = 5508 B563 6791 5C84 A947  CB01 997B 3598 09DE 502C

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0308.5c3218cf2a6260c6178cbea1b9e345f7.eml000066400000000000000000000070051444326627400311740ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Fri Sep  6 11:40:54 2002
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Hi All,

I have a question which is a bit tricky and was
wondering of anyone has come across this problem
before or could point me in the right direction.

I am involved in porting a SCO unix application to
Linux, and we have encountered a problem with the way
semaphores  are being handled. The application uses
mulitple processes to run application code with the
main process known as the bsh which controls all i/o
be it screen, or file i/o, syncronisation is handled
via semaphores.

In certain circumstances the main process and the
application child process seem to lock up both waiting
for the syncronisation semaphores to change state, I
have attached ddd to the processes and it seems that
the semaphore code is doing the correct things for
syncronisation but the processes stay stuck in the
semop() system call.

I have also noticed that if I introduce a slight delay
between changing semaphore states the problem goes
away, but this causes our entire application to run
really sloooww !! lol

Is there anything weird or different with the standard
implemenation of semaphores on modern linux that could
cause a semop() to fail to pick up the change in state

in a semaphore immediately?

Setting sem_flg = IPC_NOWAIT and checking for errno ==
EAGAIN and recalling semop() if the semop() call fails
(-1) also fixes the problem but again system
performance goes down the toilet.

both the parent controlling process run as the same
uid, and the parent creates the semaphores with
permissions 0666.

Any pointers would be appreciated!

Rgds,

Colin Nevin 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
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-- 
Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0309.f8e4b246af5b6e995aef2cae7f325a1c.eml000066400000000000000000000101241444326627400315030ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Sep  6 11:49:32 2002
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http://www.hughes-family.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=839





------- Additional Comments From alan@rdrop.com  2002-09-05 22:22 -------
I haven't tried 2.41 yet because it requires File::Spec, which barfs when
spamassassin tries to use it.  I haven't filed a bug yet because I suspect it's
because I'm still running 5.005 perl because of reported compatibility issues
with 5.6 and later, but I probably will because I think there's too much legacy
perl code to put up with major compatibility problems, and spamassassin didn't,
at least in the quickest of looks, say it needed a newer one.  The perl @ stuff
was bad enough...  but this is all a separate soapbox...



------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
You are the assignee for the bug, or are watching the assignee.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0310.e43b2f0e48c428fa52100f29a9e0d5ac.eml000066400000000000000000000046721444326627400312420ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: 0xdeadbeef-request@petting-zoo.net  Fri Sep  6 15:24:22 2002
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Forwarded-by: Nev Dull 
Forwarded-by: Mike Olson 
Forwarded-by: Jim Frew 
Forwarded-by: "Mark Mooney" 
From: the "Vent", Scottsdale Tribune:

First they sue the tobacco companies for giving them lung cancer,
then the fast food places for making them fat.
Guess I can sue Budweiser for all the ugly women I've slept with.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0311.de3984f9da9dba841ba515681fa065a6.eml000066400000000000000000000056221444326627400312630ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: secprog-return-484-zzzz=example.com@securityfocus.com  Fri Sep  6 15:24:57 2002
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take a look at http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,102881,00.asp

 Andrey                            mailto:andr@sandy.ru



BM> Does anyone do this already? Or is this a new concept? Or has this concept
BM> been discussed before and abandoned for some reasons that I don't yet know?
BM> I use the physical architecture of a basic web application as an example in
BM> this post, but this concept could of course be applied to most server
BM> systems. It would allow for the hardware-separation of volatile and
BM> non-volatile disk images. It would be analogous to performing nightly
BM> ghosting operations, only it would be more efficient and involve less (or
BM> no) downtime.

BM> Thanks for any opinions,
BM> Ben


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0312.d17a25919e7985a270c6fdee37a8f83e.eml000066400000000000000000000056071444326627400312300ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  9 10:55:09 2002
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On Tue, Oct 08, 2002 at 11:51:54AM -0700, Elias wrote:
> So, given the apparent commonality of these occurances, companies appear 
> to be losing a large amount of money by mailing these tiny checks out. 
> Why can't they simply credit the account in question on the next bill? 
> Granted, if an account has been closed there is no such option...

I've been waiting for Hettinga to regale us with one of his well-tuned
micro-cash-bearer-settlement-geodesic-finance rants. Bob, you are SO 
disappointing me.

-- 
njl


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0313.6668b975a285edaaecc0aac3b36d3fa8.eml000066400000000000000000000067301444326627400314760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  9 10:55:10 2002
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 3:25 PM -0400 on 10/8/02, Ned Jackson Lovely wrote:


> I've been waiting for Hettinga to regale us with one of his
> well-tuned micro-cash-bearer-settlement-geodesic-finance rants.
> Bob, you are SO  disappointing me.

How about if I include it by reference...



:-).

Blue in the face,
RAH

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=vNcJ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0314.105a762fc4c2f6b46bc40fdbd14e5754.eml000066400000000000000000000052341444326627400312450ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  9 10:55:12 2002
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http://reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=entertainmentnews&StoryID=1543345

Working this loose knit fashion is what keeps the Mekons so exciting, 
Langford said. "When the Mekons was our whole day job, it became a 
drudgery," he said. " Sometimes we get bogged down and trapped. But we're 
usually pretty greasy enough to bite our leg off, squirm free and run 
off."



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0315.15b9ae14057d961ba4ccec2283b8d90a.eml000066400000000000000000000057661444326627400312600ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  9 10:55:14 2002
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The academic discipline of Software Engineering was launched at a conference
sponsored by NATO, at Garmisch, Germany, in October, 1968. Intriguingly, the
term Software Engineering was chosen to be deliberately provocative -- why
can't software be developed with the same rigor used by other engineering
disciplines?

The proceedings of this conference are now available online, at:
http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/old/people/brian.randell/home.formal/NATO/index.html

Also, don't miss the pictures of attendees, including many significant
contributors to the field of Software Engineering:
http://www.cs.ncl.ac.uk/old/people/brian.randell/home.formal/NATO/N1968/inde
x.html

- Jim


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http://www.techcentralstation.com/1051/printer.jsp?CID=1051-100802B



The Disappearing Alliance
By Dale Franks 10/08/2002


For over two generations, the countries of Western Europe have been our
closest allies. We stood beside each other through the darkest days of the
Cold War as partners in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. We
celebrated with them over the fall of the Soviet Empire and the liberation
of Eastern Europe from the yoke of communism.

Tragically, a generation from now, we may be bitter adversaries.

Europe has increasingly fallen under the spell of a political ideology that
Hudson Institute scholar John Fonte has termed "progressive
transnationalism". The key doctrines of this form of post-communist
progressivism contain some fairly pernicious ideas. Among these are the
deconstruction of nationalism, the promotion of post-nationalist ideas of
citizenship (i.e. a "global" citizenry), a redefinition of democracy, and
the pooling of national sovereignty into multinational groups such as the
United Nations.

The European Union, itself a multinational organization built through the
pooling of sovereignty by European nations, is post-democratic. While there
is a European Parliament, the EU's power resides mainly in the unelected
European Commission (EC) and its unelected President, who face few limits
to their power. Instead of a limited, consensual form of government, where
elected representatives promulgate constitutional laws, the EU has an
appointed, oligarchic executive, along with a large attendant bureaucracy,
whose orders are not constitutionally limited in any real sense. Moreover,
the EU has been unwilling to accept the democratically expressed wishes of
the people themselves when those wishes conflict with the results desired
by the EU's political elite. Both the EC and the European Court of Justice
regularly overturn the national laws of democratically elected EU member
governments. This is a step backward in Europe's political development.

European criticism of America is on the rise, and the European list of
complaints about America is a long and growing one. They dislike the fact
that our republican system of government is not based on proportional
representation. They hate the fact that our citizens own guns. They despise
the fact that we execute murderers. They resent the fact that our economy
is so large, and that Americans consume so much. They also resent?and fear
- the fact that we have the ability to project American power anywhere
in the world.

On August 9, 2002, Adrian Hamilton wrote a column in the UK's Independent
newspaper, in which he identified the US as a rogue state who should be
restrained, perhaps by a European military invasion, followed by a decade
or so of occupation. Fortunately, the article is satirical not because it
exaggerates the way European progressives view the US, but rather because
the impotence of European military power makes the idea of an invasion of
the US literally fantastic.

At least, for now.

Despite the tongue-in-cheek nature of this editorial, however, the fact
remains that America is increasingly viewed this way by the European
intellectual and political elite.

The Europeans actively desire a world where the United Nations keeps in
check the activities of sovereign states. Because they have built such a
system in Europe, they feel it's valid for the rest of the world. America,
however, is the biggest obstacle to such a system. The Europeans cannot
understand why America places a higher value on the ethos of national
sovereignty and limited, consensual, and constitutional government, than it
does on compliance with international "norms." They view all departures
from such norms as aberrant. Because the UN member states all have an equal
vote in prescribing international norms, they assume that, since the
process is ostensibly legitimate, the results must be as well. The trouble
with this idea, of course, is that it gives the views of non-democratic,
authoritarian states the same weight as those of free, democratic
societies. It sanctifies the process, with no regard to the actual results.

Thus, they are unable to make any moral distinction between the US refusals
to join in a given international effort because we wish to preserve the
liberty of our citizens, and similar refusals from Iraq because its
dictator wishes to maintain his firm grip on power. Our repeated references
to the US Constitution, and our unwillingness to bypass its provisions to
comply with international norms, are incomprehensible to them. They assume,
therefore, that our refusal is based on arrogance, rather than on a
commitment to
constitutional rights.

None of this bodes well for the future of Euro-American friendship, or
cooperation. If the Europeans continue to reject traditional liberalism in
favor of the new progressivism, their criticism of the US will rise, while
their tolerance of our differences will fall. Obviously, in such a
political atmosphere, the opportunities for conflict will inevitably
increase.

That thought is frightening enough. Even more frightening, however, is the
thought that such a conflict might be averted by our own acceptance of the
new ideology of transnational progressivism.


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0317.6db6d4e89fecd143caaf99e030792bd1.eml000066400000000000000000000050101444326627400314200ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  9 10:55:18 2002
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OK, lets break this down into the Kevin Smith worldview taht equate
everything with Star Wars...

EU is the Republic/empire and we  are..what,..the Trade  Federation?
Stretch this out and it could be seen that the UN is the Jedi,  complete
with faling powers.

Work with me folks...



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0318.839e0c92ebdd46043e20fa8c2846284d.eml000066400000000000000000000056221444326627400311300ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  9 10:55:03 2002
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From: Elias 
Subject: Re: The absurdities of life.
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So, given the apparent commonality of these occurances, companies appear 
to be losing a large amount of money by mailing these tiny checks out. 
Why can't they simply credit the account in question on the next bill? 
Granted, if an account has been closed there is no such option...

Elias


Christopher Haun wrote:

> eheh i'll do yah one better i have a check some place (i just moved or i'd 
> go scan it in) for $0.01 from Time Warner Cable. 



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0319.d519b69614d9182047e448e4d96db712.eml000066400000000000000000000063221444326627400307240ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  9 10:55:20 2002
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> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of R.
A.
> Hettinga
> Subject: The Disappearing Alliance
> 
> http://www.techcentralstation.com/1051/printer.jsp?CID=1051-100802B
> 
> 
> 
> The Disappearing Alliance
> By Dale Franks 10/08/2002

> Obviously, in such a
> political atmosphere, the opportunities for conflict will inevitably
> increase.

Given current trends, particularly in demographics, such conflict won't
be military.  Europe wouldn't stand a chance now and things are getting
worse in a hurry.  They are SOL.

Not to mention that when push comes to shove they wouldn't stand united.

> 
> That thought is frightening enough. Even more frightening, however, is
the
> thought that such a conflict might be averted by our own acceptance of
the
> new ideology of transnational progressivism.

Now that is a scary thought.
]



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0320.6c54ea1bb991c6fae395588219cfce37.eml000066400000000000000000001120521444326627400312710ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  9 10:55:52 2002
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Subject: Lord of the Ringtones: Arbocks vs. Seelecks
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I can't believe I actually read a laugh-out-loud funny profile of the 
*FCC Commissioner* fer crissakes! So the following article comes 
recommended, a fine explanation of Michael Powell's extraordinary 
equivocation.

On the other hand, I can also agree with Werbach's Werblog entry... Rohit

> A Trip to F.C.C. World
>
> Nicholas Lemann has a piece in the New Yorker this week about FCC 
> Chairman Michael Powell.� It's one of the first articles I've seen that 
> captures some of Powell's real personality, and the way he's viewed in 
> Washington.� Unfortunately, Lemann ends by endorsing conventional 
> political wisdom.� After describing how Powell isn't really a 
> fire-breathing ideological conservative, he concludes that, in essence, 
> Powell favors the inumbent local Bell telephone companies, while a 
> Democratic FCC would favor new entrants.� I know that's not how Powell 
> sees the world, and though I disagree with him on many issues, I think 
> he's right to resist the old dichotomy.
>
> The telecom collapse should be a humbling experience for anyone who 
> went through it.� The disaster wasn't the regulators' fault, as some 
> conservatives argue.� But something clearly went horribly wrong, and 
> policy-makers should learn from that experience.� Contrary to Lemann's 
> speculation, the upstart carriers won't be successful in a Gore 
> administration, because it's too late.� Virtually all of them are dead, 
> and Wall Street has turned off the capital tap for the foreseeable 
> future.� Some may survive, but as small players rather than 
> world-dominators.�
>
> The battle between CLECs and RBOCs that Lemann so astutely parodies is 
> old news.� The next important battle in telecom will be between those 
> who want to stay within the traditional boxes, and those who use 
> different models entirely.� That's why open broadband networks and open 
> spectrum are so important.� Whatever the regulatory environment, there 
> is going to be consolidation in telecom.� Those left out in that 
> consolidation will face increasing pressure to create new pipes into 
> the home, or slowly die. The victors in the consolidation game will cut 
> back on innovation and raise prices, which will create further pressure 
> for alternatives.�
>
> Lemann is right that policy-making looks much drier and more ambiguous 
> on the ground than through the lens of history.� But he's wrong in 
> thinking that telecom's future will be something like its past.
>
> Friday, October 04, 2002
> 11:17:11 AM �comments�{0}�

==============================================================
http://www.newyorker.com/printable/?fact/021007fa_fact

THE CHAIRMAN	
by NICHOLAS LEMANN
He's the other Powell, and no one is sure what he's up to.
New Yorker, October 8, 2002

Last year, my middle son, in eighth grade and encountering his first 
fairly serious American-history course, indignantly reported that the 
whole subject was incomprehensible. I was shocked. What about Gettysburg 
and the Declaration of Independence and the Selma-to-Montgomery march? 
Just look at my textbook, he said, and when I did I saw his point. His 
class had got up to the eighteen-forties. What I expected was a big 
beefing up of the roles of Sacagawea and Crispus Attucks, and, in-deed, 
there was some of that. But the main difference between my son's text 
and that of my own childhood was that somebody had made the disastrous 
decision to devote most of it to what had actually happened in American 
history. There were pages and pages on tariffs and bank charters and 
reciprocal trade agreements. I skipped ahead, past the Civil War, hoping 
for easier going, only to encounter currency floats and the regulation 
of freight rates. Only a few decades into the twentieth century did it 
become possible to see the federal government's main function as 
responding to dramatic crises and launching crusades for social justice, 
instead of attempting to referee competing claims from economic 
interests.

Even now, if one were to reveal what really goes on behind the pretty 
speeches and the sanctimonious hearings in Washington, what you'd find 
is thousands of lawyers and lobbyists madly vying for advantage, not so 
much over the public as over each other: agribusiness versus real 
estate, banks versus insurance companies, and so on. The arena in which 
this competition mainly takes place is regulatory agencies and 
commissions and the congressional committees that supervise them. It's 
an insider's game, less because the players are secretive than because 
the public and the press�encouraged by the players, who speak in jargon�
can't get themselves interested.

One corner of Washington might be called F.C.C. World, for the Federal 
Communications Commission. F.C.C. World has perhaps five thousand 
denizens. They work at the commission itself, at the House and Senate 
commerce committees, and at the Washington offices of the companies that 
the commission regulates. They read Communications Daily (subscription 
price: $3,695 a year), and every year around Christmastime they 
grumblingly attend the Chairman's Dinner, at a Washington hotel, where 
the high point of the evening is a scripted, supposedly self-deprecating 
comedy routine by the commission's chairman.

Of all the federal agencies and commissions, the F.C.C. is the one that 
Americans ought to be most interested in; after all, it is involved with 
a business sector that accounts for about fifteen per cent of the 
American economy, as well as important aspects of daily life�telephone 
and television and radio and newspapers and the Internet. And right now 
F.C.C. World is in, if not a crisis, at least a very soapy lather, 
because a good portion of what the angry public thinks of as the 
"corporate scandals" concerns the economic collapse of companies 
regulated by the F.C.C. Qwest, WorldCom, Adelphia, and Global Crossing, 
among others, are (or were) part of F.C.C. World. AOL Time Warner is 
part of F.C.C. World. Jack Grubman, the former Salomon Smith Barney 
analyst who seems to have succeeded Kenneth Lay, of Enron, as the 
embodiment of the corporate scandals, is part of F.C.C. World. In the 
past two years, companies belonging to F.C.C. World have lost trillions 
of dollars in stock-market valuation, and have collectively served as a 
dead weight pulling down the entire stock market.

This year, an alarmed and acerbic anonymous memorandum about the state 
of the F.C.C. has been circulating widely within F.C.C. World. It evokes 
F.C.C. World's feverish mood ("The F.C.C. is fiddling while Rome burns") 
and suggests why nobody besides residents of F.C.C. World has thought of 
the commission in connection with the corporate scandals. The sentence I 
just quoted is followed by this explanation: "The ILECs appear likely to 
enter all l.d. markets within twelve months, while losing virtually no 
residential customers to attackers since 1996, and suffering about 10% 
market share loss in business lines to CLECs." It's a lot easier to 
think about evil C.E.O.s than to decipher that.


Even in good times, F.C.C. World pays obsessive attention to the 
commission's chairman. In bad times, the attention becomes especially 
intense; and when the chairman is a celebrity F.C.C. World devotes 
itself to full-time chairman-watching. The current chairman, Michael 
Powell, is a celebrity, at least by government-official standards, 
because he is the only son of Colin Powell, the Secretary of State. 
Unlike his father, he has a kind of mesmerizing ambiguity, which 
generates enormous, and at times apoplectically toned, speculation about 
who he really is and what he's really up to. Powell is young to be the 
head of a federal agency�he is thirty-nine�and genially charming. 
Everybody likes him. Before becoming chairman, he was for three years 
one of the F.C.C.'s five commissioners; not only is he fluent in the 
F.C.C.'s incomprehensible patois, he has a Clintonesque love of the 
arcane details of communications policy. He's always saying that he's an 
"avid moderate." And yet he has a rage-inciting quality. One of his 
predecessors as chairman, Reed Hundt, quoted in Forbes, compared Powell 
to Herbert Hoover. Mark Cooper, of the Consumer Federation of America, 
calls him "radical and extreme." Just as often as he's accused of being 
a right-wing ideologue, Powell gets accused of being paralytically 
cautious. "It ain't about singing 'Kum-Ba-Yah' around the campfire," 
another former chairman, William Kennard, says. "You have to have an 
answer." One day last spring, Powell, testifying before a Senate 
subcommittee, delivered an anodyne opening statement, and the 
subcommittee's chairman, Ernest Hollings, of South Carolina, berated 
him. "You don't care about these regulations," Hollings said. "You don't 
care about the law or what Congress sets down. . . . That's the 
fundamental. That's the misgiving I have of your administration over 
there. It just is amazing to me. You just pell-mell down the road and 
seem to not care at all. I think you'd be a wonderful executive 
vice-president of a chamber of commerce, but not a chairman of a 
regulatory commission at the government level. Are you happy in your 
job?"

"Extremely," Powell said, with an amiable smile.


One cannot understand Powell's maddening effect, at least on Democrats 
and liberal activists, without understanding not just the stated purpose 
of the commission he chairs but also its real purpose. The F.C.C. was 
created by Congress in 1934, but it existed in prototype well before the 
New Deal, because it performs a function that is one of the classic easy 
cases for government intervention in the private economy: making sure 
that broadcasters stick to their assigned spots on the airwaves. Its 
other original function was preventing American Telephone & Telegraph, 
the national monopoly phone company, from treating its customers 
unfairly. Over the decades, as F.C.C. World grew up into a comfortable, 
well-established place, the F.C.C. segued into the role of industrial 
supervision�its real purpose. It was supposed to manage the competition 
among communications companies so that it didn't become too bloody, by 
artfully deciding who would be allowed to enter what line of business. 
In addition to looking out for the public's interest, the commission 
more specifically protected the interests of members of Congress, many 
of whom regard the media companies in their districts as the single most 
terrifying category of interest group�you can cross the local bank 
president and live to tell the tale, but not the local broadcaster. 
According to an oft-told F.C.C. World anecdote, President Clinton once 
blocked an attempt to allow television stations to buy daily newspapers 
in the same city because, he said, if the so-and-so who owned the 
anti-Clinton Little Rock Democrat-Gazette had owned the leading TV 
station in Little Rock, too, Clinton would never have become President.


F.C.C. World may have been con tentious, but it was settled, too, 
because all the reasonably powerful players had created secure economic 
niches for themselves. Then, in the nineteen-eighties, the successful 
breakup of A.T. & T.�by far the biggest and most important company the 
commission regulated�deposited a thick additional sediment of 
self-confidence onto the consciousness of F.C.C. World. A generation 
ago, for most Americans, there was one local phone company, one 
long-distance company, and one company that manufactured telephones, 
which customers were not permitted to own�and they were all the same 
company. It was illegal to plug any device into a phone line. By the 
mid-nineteen-nineties, there were a dozen economically viable local 
phone companies, a handful of national long-distance companies competing 
to offer customers the lowest price and best service, and stores 
everywhere selling telephone equipment from many manufacturers�and 
millions of Americans had a fax machine and a modem operating over the 
telephone lines. A.T. & T. had argued for years that it was a "natural 
monopoly," requiring protection from economic competition and total 
control over its lines. So much for that argument. Over the same period, 
the F.C.C. had assisted in the birth of cable television and cell phones 
and the Internet. It was the dream of federal-agency success come true: 
consumers vastly better served, and the industry much bigger and more 
prosperous, too.

The next big step was supposed to be the Telecommunications Act of 1996, 
one of those massive, endlessly lobbied-over pieces of legislation which 
most people outside F.C.C. World probably felt it was safe to ignore. 
Although the Telecom Act sailed under the rhetorical banner of 
modernization and deregulation, its essence was a grand interest-group 
bargain, in which the local phone companies, known to headline writers 
as "baby Bells" and to F.C.C. World as "arbocks" (the pronounced version 
of RBOCs, or regional Bell operating companies), would be permitted to 
offer long-distance service in exchange for letting the long-distance 
companies and smaller new phone companies use their lines to compete for 
customers. Consumers would win, because for the first time they would 
get the benefits of competition in local service while getting even more 
competition than they already had in long distance. But the politics and 
economics of the Telecom Act (which was shepherded through Congress by 
Vice-President Gore) were just as important. Democrats saw the act as 
helping to reposition them as the technology party�the party that 
brought the Internet into every home, created hundreds of thousands of 
jobs in new companies, and, not least, set off an investment boom whose 
beneficiaries might become the party's new contributor base. Clinton's 
slogans about the "information superhighway" and "building a bridge to 
the twenty-first century," which, like all Clinton slogans, artfully 
sent different messages to different constituencies, were the rhetorical 
correlates of the Telecom Act, and Gore's cruise to the Presidency was 
supposed to be powered substantially by the act's success.

The F.C.C. had a crucial role in all this. The arbocks are rich, 
aggressive, politically powerful, and generally Republican (though like 
all important interest groups they work with both parties); they 
immediately filed lawsuits, which wound up tying the hands of their new 
competitors in the local phone market for more than three years. Through 
rule-making, enforcement, and litigation, the F.C.C., then headed by 
Reed Hundt, who was Gore's classmate at St. Albans, was supposed to keep 
the arbocks in their cages, so that not only long-distance companies 
like A.T. & T. and MCI WorldCom but also a whole category of new 
companies, "see-lecks" (the pronounced version of CLECs, or competitive 
local exchange carriers), could emerge. This entailed the regulatory 
equivalent of hand-to-hand combat: the see-leck is supposed to have 
access to the arbock's switching equipment, the arbock won't give the 
seeleck a key to the room where it's kept, so the see-leck asks the 
F.C.C. to rule that the arbock has to give it the key.

Partly because Hundt assured the see-lecks and other new companies that 
he would protect them, and partly because of the generally booming 
condition of the economy then, investment capital flooded into the 
see-lecks�companies with names like Winstar, Covad, and Teligent�and 
into other telecommunications companies. Even not obviously related 
technology companies like Cisco Systems benefitted from the telecom 
boom: demand for their products was supposed to come from the see-lecks 
and other new players. There would be no conflict between the interests 
of the new telecom companies and those of consumers; as one of Hundt's 
former lieutenants told me, "Reed used to joke that my job was to make 
sure that all prices went down and all stocks went up."


The years following the passage of the Telecom Act were the peak of the 
boom. Wall Street had its blood up, and that meant not just more 
startups but also more mergers of existing communications companies: 
Time Warner and AOL decided to throw in together, and A.T. & T. and 
Comcast, and so on. (Surely, WorldCom and the other telecom bad guys 
believed that their self-dealing, stock-overselling, and creative 
accounting would go unnoticed because the market was so 
undiscriminating.)

By the time the outcome of the 2000 Presidential election had been 
determined, the telecom crash was well under way. Nonetheless, the 
chairmanship of the F.C.C. remained one of the best jobs, in terms of 
influence and visibility, available to a career government regulator. 
Three Republicans emerged as candidates: Powell, who was a commissioner; 
Harold Furchtgott-Roth, the farthest-to-the-right commissioner; and 
Patrick Wood, the head of the Texas Public Utility Commission and, as 
such, a George W. Bush guy. In Texas, however, Wood had crossed the most 
powerful person in the arbock camp, Edward Whitacre, the C.E.O. of 
S.B.C. Communications, which is headquartered in San Antonio. This meant 
that the arbocks didn't want Wood as head of the F.C.C., because he 
might be too pro-see-leck. (Wood is now the head of the Federal Energy 
Regulatory Commission.) Michael Powell had to signal the arbocks that he 
wasn't as threatening as Wood, while also signalling the conservative 
movement that he was only negligibly farther to the left than 
Furchtgott-Roth.

Powell did this deftly. For example, in December of 2000 he appeared 
before a conservative group called the Progress & Freedom Foundation and 
gave a very Michael Powell speech�whimsical, intellectual, and 
free-associative (Biblical history, Joseph Schumpeter, Moore's Law)�that 
began by making fun of the idea that the F.C.C. should try to keep new 
telecom companies alive. "In the wake of the 1996 Act, the F.C.C. is 
often cast as the Grinch who stole Christmas," Powell said. "Like the 
Whos, down in Who-ville, who feast on Who-pudding and rare Who-roast 
beast, the communications industry was preparing to feast on the 
deregulatory fruits it believed would inevitably sprout from the Act's 
fertile soil. But this feast the F.C.C. Grinch did not like in the 
least, so it is thought." Thus Powell was indicating that if he became 
chairman he didn't expect to administer first aid to the see-lecks as 
part of the job. He was appointed to the chairmanship on the first day 
of the Bush Administration.

Twenty months into the Administration, nearly all the see-lecks are dead 
or dying; nearly all long-distance companies, not just WorldCom, are in 
serious trouble; cable companies have lost half their value; satellite 
companies are staggering. The crash has had an automatically 
concentrating effect, because as new companies die the existing 
companies' market share increases, and, if the existing companies are in 
good shape financially, they have the opportunity to pick up damaged 
companies at bargain prices. During the Bush Administration, as the 
financial carnage in communications has worsened, the communications 
industry has moved in the direction of more concentration. If the Bells 
wind up protecting their regional monopolies in local phone service, and 
if they also merge, the country will be on its way to having a national 
duopoly in local service: Verizon, in the East, and S.B.C., in the West. 
And these companies could dominate long distance as well, because of the 
poor health of the long-distance companies.

The cable business also seems close to having two dominant national 
companies, AOL Time Warner and Comcast. Unlike the phone companies, they 
don't have to share their wiring with other companies and so can more 
fully control what material they allow to enter people's homes. As part 
of the complicated bargaining with interest groups that led to the 1996 
Telecom Act, the limits on concentration in the radio industry were 
significantly loosened, and in the past six years the number of 
radio-station owners in the United States has been cut by twenty-five 
per cent; today, a large portion of local and national radio news 
programming is supplied by a single company, Westwood One, a subsidiary 
of Viacom.

In this situation, many Democrats and liberals think, the F.C.C. should 
be hyperactive�the superhero of government regulation, springing to the 
rescue of both consumers and the communications industry. It should try 
to breathe life into the see-lecks and other new companies. It should 
disallow mergers, maintain ownership limits, and otherwise restrain the 
forces of concentration. It should use the government's money and muscle 
to get new technology�especially fast Internet connections�into the 
homes of people who can't afford it at current market prices. (An 
analogy that a lot of people in F.C.C. World make is between telecom and 
the Middle East: the Clinton people blame the bloodshed on the Bush 
people, because they disengaged when they came into office, and the Bush 
people blame it on the Clinton people, because they raised too many 
expectations and stirred too many passions.)

But Michael Powell's F.C.C. has not been hyperactive. Powell has been 
conducting internal policy reviews and reforming the management of the 
F.C.C. and waiting for the federal courts and the Congress to send him 
signals. (In mid-September, Powell finally initiated a formal review of 
the F.C.C.'s limits on media concentration.) This doesn't mean he has 
been inactive; rather, he has been active in a way that further 
infuriates his critics�in a manner that smoothly blends the genial and 
the provocative, he muses about whether the fundamental premises of 
F.C.C. World really make sense, while giving the impression that he's 
having the time of his life as chairman. At his first press conference, 
when he was asked what he was going to do about the "digital 
divide"�that is, economic inequality in access to the Internet�he said, 
"You know, I think there is a Mercedes divide. I'd like to have one and 
I can't afford one." At the National Cable & Telecommunications 
Association convention, in Chicago, Powell, following a troupe of 
tumblers to the stage, interrupted his walk to the podium to perform a 
somersault.


Not long ago, I went to see Powell in his office at the F.C.C. Until 
1998, when the commission moved to a new building in Southwest 
Washington, near the city's open-air fish market, F.C.C. World was at 
the western edge of downtown, where everybody would encounter everybody 
else at a few familiar restaurants and bars. Today, the F.C.C. building 
looks like the office of a mortgage company in a suburban office park. 
Even the chairman's suite, though large, is beige, carpeted, and 
fluorescent. Powell is a bulky man who wears gold-rimmed glasses and 
walks with a pronounced limp, the result of injuries he suffered in a 
jeep accident in Germany, in 1987, when he was an Army officer. Because 
of the accident, he left the Army and went to law school, where he 
became entranced with conservative ideas about regulation, particularly 
the idea that the government, rather than trying to correct the flaws of 
the market before the fact�"prophylactically," as he likes to say�should 
wait till the flaws manifest themselves and then use antitrust 
litigation to fix them. He worked briefly at a corporate law firm, and 
then became a prot�g� of Joel Klein, the head of the antitrust division 
of the Clinton Justice Department and the man who led the government's 
legal case against Microsoft. (He was recently appointed chancellor of 
the New York public-school system.) It testifies to Powell's political 
skill that he is probably the only high official in the Bush 
Administration who not only served in the Clinton Administration but 
also maintains close ties to Bush's nemesis Senator John McCain, of 
Arizona. One of the things about Powell that annoy people is his 
enduring love of law school�"It's sort of like a law-school study 
session over there," one Democratic former commissioner said. As if to 
confirm the charge, Powell, when I arrived, introduced me to four law 
students, summer interns at the commission, whom he'd invited to sit in.

I began by asking Powell whether he agreed with the founding assumptions 
of the F.C.C. For example, could private companies have apportioned the 
airwaves among themselves without the government being involved?

"I think we'll never know," Powell said. "I don't think it's an 
automatically bad idea, the way some people will argue. Land is probably 
the best analogue. We don't seize all the land in the United States and 
say, 'The government will issue licenses to use land.' If my neighbor 
puts a fence one foot onto my property line, there's a whole body of law 
about what I can do about that, including whether I can tear it down. If 
a wireless company was interfering with another wireless company, it's a 
similar proposition. There are scholars who argue�indeed, the famous 
Ronald Coase treatise that won the Nobel Prize was about this�that 
spectrum policy is lunacy. The market could work this out, in the kinds 
of ways that we're accustomed to."

Talking to Powell was fun. Unlike most high government officials, he 
doesn't seem to be invested in appearing dignified or commanding. He 
slumps in his chair and fiddles with his tie and riffs. He speaks in 
ironic air quotes. He's like your libertarian friend in college who 
enjoyed staying up all night asking impertinent rhetorical questions 
about aspects of life that everybody else takes for granted but that he 
sees as sentimental or illogical. After a while, I asked him whether he 
thought his predecessors' excitement about the 1996 Telecommunications 
Act had been excessive.

"I would start with a caveat," Powell said. "Look, I can't fault those 
judgments in and of themselves, given the time and what people thought. 
They were not the only ones who were hysterical about the opportunities. 
But, frankly, I've always been a little bit critical. First of all, 
anybody who works with the act knows that it doesn't come anywhere close 
to matching the hyperbole that was associated with it, by the President 
on down, about the kinds of things it's going to open up. I mean, I 
don't know what provisions are the information-superhighway provisions, 
or what provisions are so digitally oriented, or some of the things that 
were a big part of the theatre of its introduction. When one starts 
reading the details, one searches, often in vain, for these provisions. 
But, nonetheless, there was a rising dot-com excitement, and an Internet 
excitement, and people thought this was historic legislation, and it 
certainly was.

"But. We were sucking helium out of balloons, with the kinds of 
expectations that were being bandied around, and this is before the 
economy or the market even gets in trouble. It was a dramatically 
exaggerated expectation�by the leadership of the commission, by 
politicians, by the market itself, by companies themselves. It was a 
gold rush, and led to some very detrimental business decisions, ones 
that government encouraged by its policies, frankly. Everybody wanted to 
see numbers go up on the board."

Powell began imitating an imagined true believer in the Telecom Act. " 
'I want to see ten competitors. Twenty competitors! I want to see 
thirty-per-cent market share. Fifty-per-cent market share! I want the 
Bells to bleed! Then we'll know we've succeeded.' " Now Powell returned 
to being Powell. "I think that expectation was astonishingly 
unrealistic, in the short term. They wanted to see it while they're 
there. We were starting to get drunk on the juice we were drinking. And 
the market was getting drunk on the juice we were drinking. There's no 
question, we went too soon too fast. Too many companies took on too much 
debt too fast before the market really had a product, or a business 
model."

How could the Telecom Act have been handled better? "We could have 
chosen policies that were less hellbent on a single objective, and were 
slightly more balanced and put more economic discipline in the system," 
Powell said. "Money chased what seemed like government-promised 
opportunity. The problem with that is there's a morning after, and we're 
in it. And the problem is there is no short fix for this problem. This 
debt is going to take years to bring down to a realistic level. In some 
ways, for short-term gain, we paid a price in long-term stability."

Powell went on to say that it might have turned out differently if there 
had been a more "reasonable" level of investment. "No, we wouldn't have 
every home in America with competitive choice yet�but we don't anyway. I 
don't think it's the remonopolization of telephone service. I don't buy 
that. The Bells will prosper, but did anybody believe they wouldn't? The 
part of the story that didn't materialize was that people thought so 
would MCI WorldCom and Sprint."

Other local phone companies, he added, hadn't materialized as viable 
businesses, either, and they never might. "Everybody's always saying, 
'The regulators did this and this and this.' But, candidly, the story's 
quite the opposite. I think the regulators bent over backward for six 
years to give them a chance. Conditions don't get that good except once 
every thirty years, and it didn't happen. So, whatever the reason, we're 
looking at a WorldCom that's teetering. We're looking at a long-distance 
business that has had a rapid decline in its revenue base. A.T. & T. is 
breaking itself up. Sprint has struggled."

Could the F.C.C. have done anything to make the long-distance companies 
stronger? "At the F.C.C.? I think I'll just be blunt. My political 
answer? Yes, there's all kinds of things we can do at the margin to try 
to help. But I can't find thirty billion dollars for WorldCom somewhere. 
I can't mitigate the impacts of an accounting scandal and an S.E.C. 
investigation. Were I king, it would be wonderful, but I don't have 
those kinds of levers. I don't know whether anybody does. At some point, 
companies are expected to run themselves in a way that keeps them from 
dying." Powell couldn't have made it much clearer that he doesn't think 
it's his responsibility to do anything about the telecom crash. He has 
demonstrated his sure political touch by making accommodationist 
gestures�in August, for example, five months after disbanding the 
F.C.C.'s Accounting Safeguards Division, Powell announced that he was 
appointing a committee to study accounting standards in the 
communications industry. But that shows that Powell is better at riding 
out the storm than, say, Harvey Pitt, his counterpart at the Securities 
and Exchange Commission, and does not mean that he plans to try to shore 
up the telecom industry.

I asked Powell if it would bother him if, for most people, only one 
company provided cable television and only one provided local phone 
service. "Yes," he said. "It concerns us that there's one of each of 
those things, but let's not diminish the importance of there being one 
of each of those things. That still is a nice suite of communications 
capabilities, even if they aren't direct analogues of each other." 
Anyway, Powell said, before long the phone companies will be able to 
provide video service over their lines, and the cable companies will 
provide data service over their lines, so there will be more choice. 
"So, yeah, we have this anxiety: we have one of everything. The question 
is, Does it stay that way?"

The concentration of ownership and the concentrated control of 
information did not appear to trouble Powell, either. He said that 
people confuse bigness, which brings many benefits, with concentration, 
which distorts markets. "If this were just economics, it's easy. If you 
were to say to me, 'Mike, just worry about economic concentration,' we 
know how to do that�the econometrics of antitrust. I can tell you when a 
market's too concentrated and prices are going to rise. The problem is 
other dimensions, like political, ideological, sometimes emotional. Take 
the question of, if everybody's controlling what you see, the assumption 
there is that somehow there'll be this viewpoint, a monolithic 
viewpoint, pushed on you by your media and you won't get diversity. I 
think that's a possibility. I don't think it's nearly the possibility 
that's ascribed to it sometimes."

Powell explained, "Sometimes when we see very pointed political or 
parochial programming, it gets attacked as unfair. I see some of the 
same people who claim they want diversity go crazy when Rush Limbaugh 
exists. They love diversity, but somehow we should run Howard Stern off 
the planet. If it has a point of view, then it becomes accused of bias, 
and then we have policies like"�here his tone went from ironic to 
sarcastic�"the fairness doctrine, which seems to me like the antithesis 
of what I thought those people cared about. So when somebody is pointed 
and opinionated, we do all this stuff in the name of journalistic 
fairness and integrity or whatever, to make them balance it out."


F.C.C. World abounds in theories about Michael Powell. One is that he 
can't make up his mind about how to address the crisis in the industries 
he regulates�so he talks (and talks and talks) flamboyantly about the 
market, in order to buy himself time. Another is that he's carrying 
water for the arbocks and the big cable companies. Another is that he is 
planning to run for the Senate from Virginia (or to be appointed 
Attorney General in a second Bush term), and doesn't want to do anything 
at the F.C.C. that would diminish his chances. Another is that he's 
waiting to move until there is more consensus on some course of action, 
so that he doesn't wind up going first and getting caught in the 
crossfire between the arbocks and the cable companies and the television 
networks. (In F.C.C. World, this is known as the Powell Doctrine of 
Telecom, after Colin Powell's idea that the United States should never 
commit itself militarily without a clear objective, overwhelming force, 
and an exit strategy.) And another is that he actually believes what he 
says, and thinks the telecommunications crash is natural, healthy, and 
irreversible, and more concentration would be just fine.

"This is why elections matter," Reed Hundt, who isn't happy about what 
has become of his Telecom Act, told me. It's true that the F.C.C.�much 
more than, say, the war in Afghanistan�is a case in which a Gore 
Administration would be acting quite differently from the Bush 
Administration. Consumers might have noticed the difference by now, but 
there's no question whether communications companies have noticed. The 
arbocks are doing better against their internal rivals than they would 
have done if Gore had won. Next election, they'll help the party that 
helped them. If the Republicans win, policy will tilt further in the 
arbocks' favor. If they lose, perhaps the arbocks' rivals�the 
long-distance companies and the telecommunications upstarts�with their 
friends now in power, will stage a comeback. America's present is not 
unrecognizably different from America's past.


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http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/09/technology/09KORE.html

Broadband's killer application � the one activity that dwarfs all others �
is online gaming, which 80 percent of South Koreans under 25 play, according
to one recent study. Critics say the burgeoning industry is creating
millions of zombified addicts who are turning on and tuning into computer
games, and dropping out of school and traditional group activities, becoming
uncommunicative and even violent because of the electronic games they play.

"Game players don't have normal social relationships anymore," said Kim Hyun
Soo, a 36-year-old psychiatrist who is chairman of the Net Addiction
Treatment Center, one of many groups that have sprung up to cope with
Internet game addiction. "Young people are losing the ability to relate to
others, except through games. People who become addicted are prone to
violence, even when they are not playing.

- Jim


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0322.1f9c23ccba1c0408c648f6cb0b392e93.eml000066400000000000000000000056771444326627400312570ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  9 10:56:00 2002
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At 12:05 PM 10/4/28 -0400, Stephen D. Williams wrote:

>Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2028 12:05:01 -0400
>
>I actually thought of this kind of active chat at AOL (in 1996 I think), 
>bringing up ads based on what was being discussed and other features.  For 
>a while, the VP of dev. (now still CTO I think) was really hot on the idea 
>and they discussed patenting it.  Then they lost interest.  Probably a 
>good thing.

[note date: header]

Can I borrow your time machine, pretty please?

Udhay

-- 
((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0323.d28819c84ee48388f5a58021028385dc.eml000066400000000000000000000072231444326627400307220ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Wed Oct  9 10:53:55 2002
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Subject: [ILUG] connecting at 1200bps in RH7.3 (help!)
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Hi All,

Anyone ever try connecting at 1200bps in Linux? I've got a USR 56K
Faxmodem which is meant to connect to another (same) modem and I have to
connect at this speed due to the (NT) port settings on the remote side,
but the modem handshake always fails at this speed.

The modem handshake works at slightly higher speeds (4800bps to
~57600bps) but that is no good for tx/rx'ing data to the remote server
as it insists at talking at the speed of treacle/1200bps.

Note Minicom fails to handshake at 1200bps, but HyperTerm in Windows
worked first time(!?), any ideas?

Baud 1200 7 data bits Even Parity

I am doing a ATZ3 to reset the modem then I send this init string:

AT&F1E1V1Q0X4Y0S32=232&A1&B0&C1&D2&H0&I0&K1&M4&N0&P0&R1&S0&U0&Y1

... which is most of the defaults.

USR said to set S15=128 (disables v.42)) 
& set S32=98 (disable v.92 & X2)

But the S15=128 just makes the handshake lockup instead of just giving
up.

btw this is a bank's system I am connecting to so reconfiguring their
modems may be difficult.

Colin.


-- 
Colin Nevin,
Software Engineer,
Merit Solutions Ltd. (Dublin),
5 Goatstown Cross,
Dublin 14.
------------------------------------------
Printed using 100% recycled electrons.

-- 
Irish Linux Users' Group: ilug@linux.ie
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0324.d425c24d444091807e283e66449853b0.eml000066400000000000000000000076631444326627400305550ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Wed Oct  9 10:53:57 2002
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Colin Nevin wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
> The modem handshake works at slightly higher speeds (4800bps to
> ~57600bps) but that is no good for tx/rx'ing data to the remote server
> as it insists at talking at the speed of treacle/1200bps.

It sounds like the flow control is set to Xon/Xoff rather than hardware.

> Baud 1200 7 data bits Even Parity

Unusual -  8 n 1 is more common.

> 
> I am doing a ATZ3 to reset the modem then I send this init string:
> 
> AT&F1E1V1Q0X4Y0S32=232&A1&B0&C1&D2&H0&I0&K1&M4&N0&P0&R1&S0&U0&Y1

I think that the AT command for hardware flow control is &E4 though this
may vary from modem to modem.

Regards...zzzzcc
-- 
********************************************
John McCormac            * Hack Watch News
zzzzcc@hackwatch.com       * 22 Viewmount, 
Voice:   +353-51-873640  * Waterford,
BBS&Fax: +353-51-850143  * Ireland
http://www.hackwatch.com/~kooltek
********************************************

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zzzz@example.com (Justin Mason) writes:

> /dev/fd/0 is STDIN -- filedescriptor 0.  Looks like the PS file wants
> to know its filename, but it's being read from STDIN, that's my
> guess.  

I don't think so: it should be getting a stream of PS from stdin,
but it's not. The printing/spooling system is executing gs but
somehow failing to provide it with input.

> Try tweaking the scripts to run "gs" with the ps file on
> the command line instead of as "-".

That might clarify that the later part of the system works, but I
suspect the problem is earlier.

B
-- 
Brendan Halpin, Dept of Government and Society, Limerick University, Ireland
Tel: w +353-61-213147 f +353-61-202569 h +353-61-390476;  Room F2-025 x 3147
        
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Subject: Re: [ILUG] Interesting article on free software licences
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I have translated the article in full - see 
end of post (I think that I've done a far 
better job than the Google translation - at 
least it's readable now - any corrections
appreciated).

Stuff in {}'s is my (and others) additions 
to the debate.

My apologies if I've paraphrased anybody 
incorrectly, I will be glad to retract if 
anyone is miffed.



The article makes four main points.


1) Absence of critical clauses. 


In this case, the idea is that the licence 
is invalid because it doesn't specify
under what country's law the GPL is governed.


2) Specification in English only.

That for the end user (as opposed to businesses), 
the GPL doesn't apply because it's not written 
in French.


3) Arbitary licence change.

The point here is that (under French law) the 
author can change the terms of the licence 
arbitarily. This is because any granting of 
rights by an author must be clearly delimited
in terms of how long, where, to whom, dates and 
times. In the absence of such limitations, the 
original author has the right to change his 
software back to closed on a whim.


{

David Neary makes the point that the copyright 
holder automatically retains the right to change 
the licence.

Scott replies it simply requires authorisation from 
all *copyright holders*

That's not my understanding. French law allows a 
GPL type licence *_on condition_* that the 
specific conditions of the granting of such
rights are clear - if they are not, there is
nothing to stop the original author taking
back "his work". The lawyers see this
(correctly IMHO) as a weakness in the GPL).

}



4) Hidden defects.

Roughly, this clause means that the author(s) 
is/are liable for any defects if the consumer 
is not an IT engineer, so if Linux blows up 
and data is lost, then the authors are liable.


{

Ciaran Johnson says that M$oft and others have 
similar clauses - the point here is that they 
are *_all_* invalid - just that this one 
affects the GPL also.

Niall O'Broinn makes the point that it is not
a sale, but rather a service/leasing arrangement
and that's why it doesn't come under this point.

I would suggest that the whole thrust of this
article has been to see software "sales" (even
if no money changes hands) as governed very
much by consumer law (in France anyway).


Rick Moen makes the point that it is not
a sale but rather a granting of rights which
are not default. 

See the bit about even the granting of 
rights by an author having to be 
explicitly specified - under French law.


The fact that two IP lawyers in France think that
the GPL is covered as a sale make me feel that 
there is a de facto sale and a de facto contract.

}



5) Roughly.

There may be other reasons under French 
law why the  GPL may be invalid.



-----  Whole Article. -----------


Freedom(a) is worth more than these 
imperfect licences.


Specialised lawyers look at the GPL.



Lawyer Cyril Rojinsky (duly appointed to 
the court) and the jurist Vincent Grynbaum, both 
specialised in the area of intellectual property 
examine the "free" licences and in particular the 
GPL. They have published their study
in the review "Proprietes intellectuelles 
(Intellectual property)[1]" and their
conclusion is grim.


Their approach is interesting. The problem for 
them is not to know whether freedom is valid under 
French law (for them the question is a moot point)
but rather they asked themselves about the form 
and the content of the text of free licences, and 
in particular the GPL. The problem is not free 
programmes, but rather the licence contracts of 
free programmes.



Absence of critical clauses.



The authors tell us that first of all, the 
reference to "copyright" is not legally 
sufficient in the framework of international 
contracts  (which is the case of licence 
contracts for programmes developed and spread 
via the Internet). The idea of copyright can 
basically include differences from one country 
to another. This is why, under international 
contracts, it is necessary to specify to which 
laws one is referring (French law, American &c.).

The authors only found three public licences 
which were correctly formulated on this point: 
QPL, IBM Public Licence and the Mozilla Public
Licence).



Specification in the English language.



Next, the authors remind us that (at least in 
France), no clause in a contract may be contrary 
to French law [2]. However, it turns out that a 
licence such as the GPL is contrary to French law 
in several respects. Firstly, it is written in 
English and the FSF doesn't officially approve 
translations. 

The "Toubon law" obliges this sort 
of contract to be written in French, including for 
businesses since the notion of "user" applies not 
only to consumers, but also to businesses, 
professionals &c. 


Contacted by the editors of LinuxFrench, 
lawyer Cyril Rojinsky declared that, as 
far as business is concerned, the "Toubon 
law" is probably doomed to change since 
it is in contradiction of European directives 
on the subject, but whatever about that, the 
problem is still valid for individuals, and 
while waiting for it (French law) to change, 
French companies have to deal with it, since 
it is the law of the land.


A programme under the GPL can suddenly 
change licence.


Another problem, much more serious, is 
that according to French law, the author of 
a free programme can, at any time, invoke 
the invalidity of the licence for this 
software by simply changing the licence.


In effect, the law of intellectual 
property stipulates that the granting of  
rights by the author is subordinate to 
the condition that each of these granted 
rights be the object of a distinct clause 
in the granting act (i.e. the licence) and 
that the granting of any such rights be 
delimited with respect to its scope and its 
grantees, and also with respect to its 
location (i.e. where such rights may be 
excersised)  and duration of any such grants. 
[3] This is not the case of the GPL nor of
other free licences. Briefly, this means 
that in France, or elsewhere if the author 
is French, that which is under the GPL could 
revert to proprietary from one day to the next. 
 


The problem of the guarantee "hidden defects".


An other very serious flaw is that of the 
guarantee. The GPL licences and others show 
that the software is delivered "without 
guarantee". You are going to immediately
reply that commercical programmes carry the 
same clause in their licence contracts,
and this is correct. However, whatever is 
written in a licence contract, one cannot
free oneself from the "guarantee from 
hidden defects", since it is imposed in the 
Civil Code. This concept is poorly understood 
by the layman, it protects the buyer
(whoever it may be, individual or business, 
since it specifies the Civil Code and not 
consumer protection law) against hidden 
defects, deliberate or made in good faith by 
the seller. 


For example, if one buys a pair of socks 
in a sale, and the shop has a notice 
specifying that "Sale items are neither 
refunded nor exchanged", and on arriving 
home you notice that one of the socks has 
a hole in it, several scenarios are possible.


You could have checked the socks before 
purchase: the flaw is deemed "obvious" and
you can sing for your money.


You couldn't check the socks (they were 
packaged for example), and in this case, 
despite the notice "neither refund nor 
exchange", you may invoke "hidden defect" 
and have them changed or obtain a refund, 
it's up to you. 

Personally, I have already invoked in shops 
the "hidden defect" clause and it always 
worked well (shopkeepers are always very 
cooperative if you quote a couple of words 
of the Civil Code). 


The concept of hidden defect is rather 
wide, it is necessary that you hadn't 
the possibility of discovering the defect 
before buying the product and then 
(according to the Civil Code) that you 
wouldn't have bought it at that price if 
you had known about the
defect.


The third case which is much rarer , is 
if you are able to show that the vendor had
knowledge of the defect (hidden), but didn't 
inform you. In this case, not only does he 
have to reimburse the product, but all 
expenses incurred by the sale (metro 
tickets to go to the shop, the fuse 
which blew when you plugged it in &c.)


This idea of "hidden defect" applies to
 all products, including programmes. This 
was made abundantly clear by the 
authorities (and the courts) surrounding 
Y2K. 

This is particularly inconvenient for 
free programmes, since a site which 
offers a Linux distro for download is 
supposed to provide a guarantee against 
hidden flaws.


LinuxFrench asked Cyril ROJINSKY if 
in the case of a free programme, 
one could speak about a "hidden" defect 
since the source code was available, 
he replied "Actually, concerning the 
guarantee, the question of obvious 
defect will arise. This analyis will 
be different depending on whether the 
person who downloads the distribution 
is an IT professional or not". 

OpenSource has this advantage over 
the proprietary programme: it protects 
the distributor against a guarantee of
hidden defect insofar as the buy is an 
IT person. But, for distribution to the 
public at large, the problem remains 
the same.



Roughly Speaking.


Lawyer Cyril ROJINSKY said it himself, 
this study is far from being exhaustive 
and many other areas could be explored. 

During this interview, we asked ourselves, 
for example, about the fragility of the 
GPL clause which forbids linking source 
code under the GPL with proprietary code. 

In effect, the laws of intellectual 
property give the right to the user 
to modify a programme with the
intention of permitting interoperability 
with another programme. If for that,
I need to link with a proprietary library 
(communication protocol, device driver)
I may consider as "null and void" this 
clause of the GPL.


The conclusion of this study is a wake 
up call for the community. "Freedom" 
merits more than these shoddy licences, 
which should be modified before court 
cases over them proliferate and put at 
risk the undeniable originality of 
this effort.


---------------------------


[1] Une publication de l'Institut 
de recherche en propri�t� 
intellectuelle, No4 Juillet 2002

[2] Une telle clause de contrat 
qui est oppos�e � ce que dit la Loi 
fran�aise est qualifi�e en terme 
juridique de � clause r�put�e 
non-�crite �, c'est-�-dire 
qu'on fait comme si cette clause 
n'�tait pas �crite dans le contrat. 

C'est pour cela par exemple que vous 
pouvez signer un bail pour un 
appartement qui stipule que 
les enfants sont interdits dans 
l'immeuble, et envisager sans 
inqui�tude d'avoir quand m�me 
un enfant, en effet le code civil 
stipule que le devoir d'un locataire 
d'un appartement doit se comporter 
en � bon p�re de famille � 

[3] Article L131-3







___________________________________________________________
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0327.bf6719c9c1709b6da832232acb1ee97f.eml000066400000000000000000000075421444326627400312740ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ilug-admin@linux.ie  Wed Oct  9 10:53:59 2002
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Quoting Breathnach, Proinnsias (Dublin) (breatpro@exchange.ie.ml.com):

> Is there any reliable way to calculate your connection speed if you don't
> trust what the modem reports?

Do a wget of a file of known length, in a script that runs "date" before
and after (or equivalent).

Be aware that speed between you and your upstream link is one thing;
speed through countless congested routers to a faraway location may be
quite another.  Remember that hardware-level compression is a factor.
(The file you wget will probably be precompressed.)

In the area of the slightly more exotic, be aware that different traffic
may have higher priority and thus more available bandwidth at various
points in the transit to/from you -- and that some traffic may go via 
different paths coming vs. going.

Be aware that raw bulk transfer speed may not be the only thing that
matters:  Depending on what you're doing, the modem's connection latency
might matter, and this differs widely between modems.  (It matters more
for interactive sessions, e.g., ssh remote logins, where each keystroke
is echoed from remote.)

-- 
Cheers,                    "Send a policeman, and have it arrested."
Rick Moen                     -- Otto von Bismarck, when asked what he 
rick@linuxmafia.com               would do if the British Army landed.
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On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, John Moylan wrote:
> Hmm, speaking of cheap machines etc, has anyone tried this sort of
> thing: http://www.mini-itx.com/projects/humidor64/ ? or more importantly
> has anyone had any positive/negative experiences with the Via mini-itx
> boards/via c3 processors.

My laptop has a Via C3 processor. I use Debian with a self-compiled
2.4.19 kernel, and have had absolutely no problems with the chip at all
(quite the opposite, in fact).

I had to compile for "686" in order for 3D acceleration to work (the
kernel has an option specifically for the Via C3), but I assume that was
a kernel problem rather than a hardware problem.

Trevor Johnston

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Quoting Paul Linehan (plinehan@yahoo.com):

> The point here is that (under French law) the author can change the
> terms of the licence arbitarily. This is because any granting of
> rights by an author must be clearly delimited in terms of how long,
> where, to whom, dates and times.

The GPL and similar licences are explicitly permanent grants of rights
attached to an instance of his work.  (The other stuff mentioned
concerns contract law, e.g., the required element of privity, etc.)

> In the absence of such limitations, the original author has the right
> to change his software back to closed on a whim.

No, the author has the right to issue _additional_ instances under a
different licence, such as a proprietary ("closed" [sic]) licence.  

> Rick Moen makes the point that it is not a sale but rather a granting
> of rights which are not default. 
> 
> See the bit about even the granting of rights by an author having to
> be explicitly specified - under French law.

The analysis, here and elsewhere, concerns contract law.  This isn't
contract law.

This isn't the first time copyright attorneys have stumbled on this
subject.  I'm sure it won't be the last.

-- 
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Rick Moen            viruses is a continually evolving computer operating 
rick@linuxmafia.com  system that attracts the efforts of eager software
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Matthias Haase wrote:
> The bytecode-interpreter *is* disabled on RH8, defined at line 3 in
> the Specfile of the SRPM.

Right you are.  The SRPM includes a patch to enable it, but then the
specfile defaults to not applying that patch.  I saw the former but
missed the later.  Egad, what a convoluted maze.

Sorry for the misinformation!

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Any one out their have any RPMs for the new KVim that was just released 
that'd be suitable for RH7.3?

The website ( http://freehackers.org/kvim/screenshots.html ) mentions some 
experimental RPMs for Suse/COnnectiva/Slackware but none for Mandrake...

                                    -- \m/ --
                    ...in 29 days - The Odyssey begins...
                                www.symphonyx.com

         mark@talios.com - ICQ: 1934853 JID: talios@myjabber.net


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Laurent Papier wrote:

>On Tue, 8 Oct 2002 16:24:06 +0200
>Matthias Saou  wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Once upon a time, Roi wrote :
>>
>>    
>>
>>>mplayer works with dga (if i am root) and works with x11
>>>and always worked with sdl (but not now with redhat 8)
>>>now it gives black screen window and play the music of the movie.
>>>      
>>>
>>Strange, because as I said in an earlier post, it works for me. Maybe
>>you're missing the SDL_image or something? :-/
>>    
>>
>
>It also works nicely for me.
>
>Laurent
>  
>

[roi@roi roi]$ rpm -qa | grep -i sdl
SDL_image-devel-1.2.2-3
xmame-SDL-0.60.1-fr2
SDL_mixer-1.2.4-5
SDL-1.2.4-5
SDL-devel-1.2.4-5
SDL_mixer-devel-1.2.4-5
SDL_net-1.2.4-3
SDL_net-devel-1.2.4-3
SDL_image-1.2.2-3

Seems I got all packages I need.
It worked on redhat 7.3 I did upgrade not reinstall so packages
shouldn't make a problem.

Roi




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0333.b702dbd33bcec7b614b9f223b2487688.eml000066400000000000000000000102341444326627400311730ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Wed Oct  9 10:49:49 2002
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On Tue, Oct 08, 2002 at 04:36:13PM +0200, Matthias Saou wrote:
> Two new things today :
> 
> 1) I've had to install a Red Hat Linux 6.2 server because of an old
> proprietary IVR software that doesn't work on newer releases :-( So
> I've recompiled both the latest apt and openssh packages for it, and
> they are now available with a complete "os, updates & freshrpms" apt
> repository at apt.freshrpms.net, for those who might be interested.

Oh, neat.

I have similiar thing in my hands, though it might be migratable if I
had the time to try. I've been using another 6.x repository though.
http://apt-rpm.tuxfamily.org/apt

Anyone tried (dist-)upgrade from 6.x to 7? Theoretically it should drop
in some -compat's (notably libc) and upgrade the rest and after a reboot
and maybe a new kernel (and grub, but I have long before put those to
v6's :) run just fine. Haven't had a spare machine to try it on myself,
though.

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0334.c59bc33795d3a1b56747297a900bd0ce.eml000066400000000000000000000067411444326627400311260ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Wed Oct  9 10:49:42 2002
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Matthias Haase wrote:
> The recompile of the SPRM failed for me with:
> #----
> RPM build errors:
>     File not found by glob:
> /var/tmp/freetype-2.1.2-root/usr/lib/libttf.so.*
>     File not found: /var/tmp/freetype-2.1.2-root/usr/lib/libttf.so

Weird.  I had no problems at all rebuilding from the SRPM with specfile
modified to enable the bytecode interpreter.  The "check-files" test
warns that "/usr/share/aclocal/freetype2.m4" was not included in any
package, but other then that, it's all perfectly clean.

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0335.fcbba7ed1ebfb6dc83ba2f65d555240e.eml000066400000000000000000000142631444326627400316340ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Wed Oct  9 10:49:52 2002
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On Mon, Oct 07, 2002 at 11:05:21PM +0200, Matthias Saou wrote:
> I've put up a new Red Hat Linux 8.0 build of nessus here :
> http://ftp.freshrpms.net/pub/freshrpms/testing/nessus/
> 
> It's 100% untested, although the build should be ok. The new menu was
> added, but some configuration files may be better with new or different
> defaults.
> 
> Feedback is very welcome!

It works very nice, would you consider upgrading it to 1.2.6 released only a
few hours after your build?

Thanks!

On Tue, Oct 08, 2002 at 01:49:11PM +0200, Renaud Deraison wrote:
> I'm pleased to announce the availability of Nessus 1.2.6, which should
> be one of the last versions of Nessus 1.2.x (hopefully), as I will soon
> open a new unstable tree and start to break things again :)
> 
> What is new in Nessus 1.2.6, in comparison to 1.2.5 :
> 
> * changes by Michael Slifcak (Michael.Slifcak at guardent.com)
>      + Added Bugtraq cross reference in the plugins
>      + Added support for BID in nessusd (this has yet to be done on
>        the client side)
>        
> * changes by Axel Nennker (Axel.Nennker at t-systems.com)
>      + fixed the xml and html outputs
>      + fixed array issues in a couple of plugins
>      
> * changes by Michel Arboi (arboi at bigfoot.com)
>      + find_service now detects services protected by TCP wrappers
>        or ACL
>      + find_service detects gnuserv
>      + ptyexecvp() replaced by nessus_popen() (*)
>      
> * changes by Renaud Deraison (deraison at cvs.nessus.org)
>      + Fixed a bug which may make nasl interpret backquoted strings
>        (\n and \r) received from the network (problem noted by Pavel
>        Kankovsky)
>      + nmap_wrapper.nes calls _exit() instead of exit() (*)
>      + Solved the lack of bpf's on Free/Open/NetBSD and MacOSX by
>        sharing _one_ among all the Nessus processes. As a result,
>        Nessus's ping is much more effective on these platforms
>      + bugfix in plug_set_key() which would eventually make some
>        scripts take too long when writing in the KB
>      + Plugins of family ACT_SETTINGS are run *after* plugins of
>        family ACT_SCANNERS
>      + replaced the implementation of md5 which was used when
>        OpenSSL is disabled by the one from RSA (the old one would
>        not work on a big-endian host)
>      + Fixed plugins build issues on MacOS X
>      + The nessus client compiles and links against GTK+-2.0. Of
>        course, it will be horrible and unstable, as the GTK team
>        does not care about backward compatibility
>   
> (*) These two modifications solve the problems of nmap hanging under FreeBSD
> 
> 
> 
> Special thanks go to Michael Slifcak, whose work on Nessus during the
> last months have been truly appreciated even if they have not always
> been as underlined as they should have been. Michael, thanks again !
> 
> 
> AVAILABILITY:
> 
> Nessus 1.2.6 is available at http://www.nessus.org/posix.html
-- 
Axel.Thimm@physik.fu-berlin.de

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Since libdvdcss-1.2.0, I have been unable to play DVDs using ogle, xine,
vlc, or mplayer.  They all show a scrambled picture with (VERY) choppy
audio.  When I run xine I see tons of these in the console: 

liba52: a52_block error
liba52: a52_block error
liba52: a52_block error
liba52: a52_block error
audio_out: inserting 5859 0-frames to fill a gap of 10989 pts
metronom: audio jump
liba52: a52_block error

Has anyone seen this before and know how to fix it?  Or should I file a
bug report?  

Thanks for your help.  

- Jon

-- 
jon@tgpsolutions.com

Administrator, tgpsolutions
http://www.tgpsolutions.com


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0337.9ae9f15c4dceca867140e95cad506234.eml000066400000000000000000000122251444326627400312640ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Wed Oct  9 10:51:21 2002
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From: Steve Kann 
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Subject: Ack, apt-get still failing for me, stumped. [RH8]
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I posted about this last week, and I'm still stumped.  apt-get is just
not working for me, and I can't figure out what the problem is.

I've tried removing the apt rpms, making sure to remove any traces left
behind (/etc/apt /var/state/apt /var/cache/apt), and still, I get
"couldn't find package xmms-mp3" when running "apt-get install xmms-mp3".

Any clues?  Here's a log of a fresh try:

root@canarsie:/tmp # rpm -e apt apt-devel
root@canarsie:/tmp # rm -rf /etc/apt /var/cache/apt /var/state/apt
root@canarsie:/tmp # rpm -ivh apt-0.5.4cnc7-fr1.i386.rpm apt-devel-0.5.4cnc7-fr1.i386.rpm
warning: apt-0.5.4cnc7-fr1.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID
e42d547b
Preparing...                ########################################### [100%]
   1:apt                    ########################################### [ 50%]
   2:apt-devel              ########################################### [100%]
root@canarsie:/tmp # apt-get update
Ign http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386 release
Get:1 http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/os pkglist [1276kB]
Get:2 http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/os release [108B]
Get:3 http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/updates pkglist [14B]
Get:4 http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/updates release [113B]
Get:5 http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/freshrpms pkglist
[57.1kB]
Get:6 http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/freshrpms release
[125B]
Get:7 http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/os srclist [152kB]
Get:8 http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/updates srclist [14B]
Get:9 http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/freshrpms srclist
[14.4kB]
Fetched 1500kB in 11s (125kB/s)
Reading Package Lists... Done
root@canarsie:/tmp # apt-get install xmms-mp3
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
E: Couldn't find package xmms-mp3
root@canarsie:/tmp # apt-cache search xmms
root@canarsie:/tmp #


Beats me..

-SteveK



-- 
  Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 -  (212) 533-1775
                HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn
   "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed Linux."

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Subject: Re: RH 8 no DMA for DVD drive
From: Chris Kloiber 
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On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 13:28, Matthias Saou wrote:

> I've never heard of any CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive having problems with DMA...
> although there probably is since Red Hat decided to default disabling it a
> few releases back :-/

Heh. I get to see bad CDROM problems all the time. Mostly when vendors
buy crap cables to try to save $0.02/each, but there are chipsets and
drives with known DMA issues as well.

> Normally, even if you try to enable DMA and your device doesn't support it,
> it simply don't be able to make the change, and that's it. The problem IIRC
> is with crappy hardware that is supposed to support DMA but doesn't work as
> expected when it's enabled... maybe Chris could confirm this? ;-)

Usually if you enable DMA on a CDROM that can't handle it gracefully you
won't be able to read data off it relably, and that's about it. No
end_of_the_world problems, and easily fixed.

> I guess I'll settle for the /dev/dvd link change as described and putting
> the DMA tip in the %description :-)

My biggest beef with automatically setting /dev/dvd is that I always
seem to have a CD-Burner and a DVD drive (or DVD burner) in the same
box, and I usually have the DVD as the second drive /dev/cdrom1 in
"kudzu-speak". I agree that the %description is the best place for the
tip. Unless someone can come up with a way to probe CD/DVD drives to
divulge their largest supported media size without loading ide-scsi or
having that media currently in the drive.

-- 
Chris Kloiber


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Subject: Re: RH 8 no DMA for DVD drive
From: Chris Kloiber 
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On Tue, 2002-10-08 at 04:48, Panu Matilainen wrote:
> On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Jesse Keating wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 7 Oct 2002 19:28:51 +0200
> > Matthias Saou  wrote:
> > 
> > # I've never heard of any CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive having problems with
> > # DMA... although there probably is since Red Hat decided to default
> > # disabling it a few releases back :-/
> > 
> > When I worked as a PC repair tech for a Computer store chain, I did
> > run across quite a few DVD drives that would lock up if DMA was
> > enabled.  It's more of a chipset/drive problem than a Drive by itself.
> 
> And my IBM Intellistation would lock up instantly .. now this is actually 
> quite funny .. if DMA was enabled for the CD-ROM *and* you tried to access 
> a CD with Joliet extensions. Otherwise it worked just fine with DMA 
> enabled :)

Odd. Did I certify that one? What's the 7-digit IBM model number, and
which version of Red Hat were you running?

-- 
Chris Kloiber


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0340.aae9e33fb151ae061354b8cfe9f90b3d.eml000066400000000000000000000074321444326627400314120ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Wed Oct  9 10:51:45 2002
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Subject: Re: Zoot apt/openssh & new DVD playing doc
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On Tue, 2002-10-08 at 10:36, Matthias Saou wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> Two new things today :
> 
> 1) I've had to install a Red Hat Linux 6.2 server because of an old
> proprietary IVR software that doesn't work on newer releases :-( So I've
> recompiled both the latest apt and openssh packages for it, and they are
> now available with a complete "os, updates & freshrpms" apt repository at
> apt.freshrpms.net, for those who might be interested.

Gack. Did you try 7.3 with the compat-glibc first? Or does it require an
antique kernel?

-- 
Chris Kloiber


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0341.e8a70f3df9757b1df7d8e36de3e01b0d.eml000066400000000000000000000076101444326627400314270ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Wed Oct  9 10:51:52 2002
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On Tue, 08 Oct 2002 13:05:53 -0700
Ben Liblit  wrote:

> > RPM build errors:
> >     File not found by glob:
> > /var/tmp/freetype-2.1.2-root/usr/lib/libttf.so.*
> >     File not found: /var/tmp/freetype-2.1.2-root/usr/lib/libttf.so
> 
> Weird.  I had no problems at all rebuilding from the SRPM with specfile
> modified to enable the bytecode interpreter.  The "check-files" test
> warns that "/usr/share/aclocal/freetype2.m4" was not included in any
> package, but other then that, it's all perfectly clean.
Hi, Ben,

it seems, the RH freetype package should be repacked,
see for this
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=74415

Please, can you atach and send your sucessfully rebuild of the RH freetype
rpm with the bytecode enabled to me?

-- 
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                     Matthias

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I wrote:
> [The bytecode interpreter] may improve non-antialiased rendering, but
> only at the expense of making a mess of antialiased rendering.

Then again, perhaps the particular font I'm using just has bad
bytecodes.  That font is "QuickType II", grabbed off my Windows
partition, where it was installed by I-have-no-idea-which-application.

Anybody else experimenting with bytecode-enabled freetype, presumably
with different fonts?  Do you find the same bad antialiased rendering
that I found, or do other fonts work well?

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From: Matthias Saou 
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Once upon a time, Chris wrote :

> On Tue, 2002-10-08 at 10:36, Matthias Saou wrote:
> > Hi there,
> > 
> > Two new things today :
> > 
> > 1) I've had to install a Red Hat Linux 6.2 server because of an old
> > proprietary IVR software that doesn't work on newer releases :-( So
> > I've recompiled both the latest apt and openssh packages for it, and
> > they are now available with a complete "os, updates & freshrpms" apt
> > repository at apt.freshrpms.net, for those who might be interested.
> 
> Gack. Did you try 7.3 with the compat-glibc first? Or does it require an
> antique kernel?

It requires a 2.2 kernel, plus antique just-about-everything :-/ Real crap!

Matthias

-- 
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Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10acpi
Load : 0.00 0.03 0.00

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From: Matthias Haase 
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On Tue, 08 Oct 2002 23:15:07 -0700
Ben Liblit  wrote:

> Ick.  Perhaps this is why Red Hat turned the bytecode interpreter off. 
> It may improve non-antialiased rendering, but only at the expense of 
> making a mess of antialiased rendering.
> 
> This may come down to a matter of personal aesthetics, but for my part, 
> I'm going back to Red Hat's standard packages with the bytecode 
> interpreter turned *off*.
Yes, confirmed, but for my part, I'm using mostly non-antialiased fonts
and 
they are true ugly without the bytecode interpreter enabled.

Remember my stupid request about your RPM ;-)


--
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                     Matthias


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Hi.

Brian Fahrlander  wrote:

>     What's it take to ensure we're covered against this kind of
>     childish/moronic/Microsoft-era problems?

Well, I am checking the packet signatures while building the apt-tree.
Not very pretty, not very fast, but it works.

Nonetheless:
did anyone ever play with this:
http://distro.conectiva.com.br/pipermail/apt-rpm/2002-August/000653.html

-- 
R!

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Once upon a time, Brian wrote :

>      OK, it's now time to work out the PGP securing of apt repository
>      traffic. I've never gotten anything but "sitename.whatever will not
>      be authenticated" until running Redhat 8.0 when I get something
>      about having "No Key" for various files.

I don't think gpg signing my repositories will help anything, as it will
just ensure that my passphrase was typed to confirm the md5 signatures of
all pgklists and srclists. Basically, you'll then just be sure that it's me
who generated the files, and this will of course prevent automating the
process of updating the apt repository when Red Hat updates show up.

In Red Hat Linux 8.0 though, the warnings about "No Key" appear until you
import the right gpg public keys directly with rpm, for example :
rpm --import /usr/share/doc/apt-0.5.4cnc7/RPM-GPG-KEY
(this will import my key, which is used to sign all freshrpms.net packages)

Hopefully it is possible to the tell rpm to install *only* packages who
verify against an imported gpg key? This for me would be the optimal way to
ensure integrity with the way things curently work.

Matthias

-- 
Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10acpi
Load : 0.14 0.18 0.17

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From: Brian Fahrlander 
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On Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:03:11 +0200, Matthias Saou  wrote:

> I don't think gpg signing my repositories will help anything, as it will
> just ensure that my passphrase was typed to confirm the md5 signatures of
> all pgklists and srclists. Basically, you'll then just be sure that it's me
> who generated the files, and this will of course prevent automating the
> process of updating the apt repository when Red Hat updates show up.

    Isn't there a packager-key that's concealed inside the rpm?  Things have changed a bit since I used to work with'em, but I thought there was some internal number that must be compared to be correct (or, presumably, return an error.)
 
> In Red Hat Linux 8.0 though, the warnings about "No Key" appear until you
> import the right gpg public keys directly with rpm, for example :
> rpm --import /usr/share/doc/apt-0.5.4cnc7/RPM-GPG-KEY
> (this will import my key, which is used to sign all freshrpms.net packages)

    Hey, cool; wether it protects me or not, I feel better about it.
 
> Hopefully it is possible to the tell rpm to install *only* packages who
> verify against an imported gpg key? This for me would be the optimal way to
> ensure integrity with the way things curently work.

    Yeah, surely there's a flag for that; there is, for everything else, aye?  :)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Fahrl�nder              Linux Zealot, Conservative, and Technomad
Evansville, IN                    My Voyage: http://www.CounterMoon.com
ICQ  5119262
------------------------------------------------------------------------
angegangen, Schlange-H�ften, sein es ganz r�ber jetzt. B�gel innen fest,
weil es eine lange, s�sse Fahrt ist. 

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0348.3b405d7ce51b88004e6106862f9e3ac4.eml000066400000000000000000000114471444326627400310450ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: sentto-2242572-56027-1034088329-zzzz=example.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com  Tue Oct  8 17:02:17 2002
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Subject: [zzzzteana] Plumstead Panther - Pictures!
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Looks and sounds a hell of a lot like Clare's cat, Violence...

A tall tail or is it a prowling panther?


http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/weird/display.var.633939.Bizarre+London.0.html


Security cameras at the Gardiner house filmed the cat
The Plumstead panther has been spotted just yards from the scene of a 
sighting made three weeks ago but this time it was caught on camera.

Steve Gardiner, 41, claims to have spotted the large cat in his garden in 
Upton Road, Plumstead, in the sixth reported sighting in Woolwich and Bexley 
in just four weeks.

Mr Gardiner told News Shopper he watched the big cat as it walked alongside 
the house at about 7.15am, on Wednesday, September 25, while his security 
cameras captured it on film.

The father-of-four described the black cat as about 3ft long and 
two-and-a-half-foot high, with a large body.

He said: "It prowled past the patio doors moving with all the mannerisms of 
a hunter.

"It looked at me calmly before moving on."

The bricklayer told how his work colleagues let him know News Shopper had 
been following the big cat story so he decided to call our offices with news 
of the sighting.

His wife, Karen, 41, later checked the tape which had captured grainy images 
of the large cat prowling through their garden.

She said: "I feel sorry for it not living in its natural habitat I'd hate 
for it to get hurt."

Mr Gardiner told how he is convinced of the cat's existence saying how their 
usually quiet 18-year-old dog barks at "nothing" in the garden but barked 
that morning.

He warned: "I don't think these cats are dangerous but, if cornered, they 
might jump you."

Sightings of the large black cat are being reported all over the Plumstead 
Common and Shooters Hill as well at the Bexley area.

If you have seen the big cat, call News Shopper on 01689 885712.

12:27 Tuesday 8th October 2002



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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2310209.stm

Tuesday, 8 October, 2002, 13:53 GMT 14:53 UK
Quiz: Know your Cockney Rhyming Slang?

Cockney Rhyming Slang is alive and well with new terms being invented all
the time, according to the new Oxford Dictionary of Rhyming Slang being
published this week.
But do you know a Raquel Welch (belch) from a Billie Piper (windscreen
wiper)?
...

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Subject: [zzzzteana] Punch bags filled with incontinence pads
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http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/weird/display.var.633932.Bizarre+London.0.html

An investigation has been launched after punch bags on sale in Greenwich 
were found to be stuffed with incontinence pads and bandages.

Trading standards officers, working for Greenwich Council, were alerted to 
the situation after a Bryan punch bag, purchased in Argos, in Charlton Road, 
Charlton, was found to be full of bandages.

Also stuffed inside the piece of sporting equipment was a letter from a 
woman in Fife stating how she felt quite disgusted' about the bag and asking 
for the filling to be tested.

The unfortunate shopper had bought his first bag, at Argos, in Lewisham High 
Street, but had returned it because on investigation of a leak he was 
horrified to discover it was filled with incontinence pads.

So far, officers have purchased two of the punch bags, only to find they 
contain incontinence pads and strips of shredded duvet.

Cabinet member for public services Councillor Angela Cornforth said: "This 
is one of the strangest stories I have every heard.

"Our officers are in the process of investigating and will no doubt discover 
why the bags contain such unusual contents."

12:18 Tuesday 8th October 2002




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0351.a7381397d31e8511581dc5cd59f39959.eml000066400000000000000000000053521444326627400307320ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Aug 26 15:31:43 2002
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On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, Adam L. Beberg wrote:

--]And yet STILL noone is out there creating _public domain_ content. Is there
--]even one person out there can can even begin to talk without being a
--]complete hypocrite? And no the "open source" people cant talk either, the
--]GPL aint even close. I know I cant talk.


All my music is in the Public Domain.


There are others.


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> If the creator didnt say you could have it without paying, it's theft, so
> simple, hell that's even in all the major holy books.

Wow, I've got a great idea!  I'll hire a skywriter to write "you can't
look at this without paying," then lock up everybody who looked at it and
didn't pay!  It can't fail -- Jesus is on my side!




http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork

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From: "Russell Turpin" 
To: fork@example.com
Subject: Re: The case for spam
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Lucas Gonze:
>Senders should vary the recipient list to include non-targets, like party 
>officials, and to exclude targets enough to give them plausible 
>deniability.

Which means the sender has a list of who the true
targets are, and who the fake targets are, and
scripts for mixing these. On the receiving side,
my email client distinguishes between messages
that are read, and messages that are not. I like
to mark or save messages that are particularly
interresting or important to me. And even if I
make a point to delete "suspicious material"
immediately upon reading it, even THAT might
leave an interesting kind of trace on my machine.

Sorry, but I don't buy the argument that spam
protects people who want to distribute or see
material the government disapproves.


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx

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Russell Turpin wrote:
> On the receiving side,
> my email client distinguishes between messages
> that are read, and messages that are not. I like
> to mark or save messages that are particularly
> interresting or important to me. And even if I
> make a point to delete "suspicious material"
> immediately upon reading it, even THAT might
> leave an interesting kind of trace on my machine.

You choose to have your email client do that.  You don't have to.  Short
of Palladium, you can do whatever you want with bytes you hold, including
reading messages and erasing the traces.  I'll buy a chocolate sundae for
anyone who can show otherwise.

An attacker might be able to verify that you *have* read a message (e.g.  
by seeing that you saved and edited a copy) but not that you *haven't*.  
If your email client was compromised you could put a packet sniffer on the
line before downloading mail.  If an attacker installed a packet sniffer
sniffer, you could run it in a spoofing VM.

The only exception to the rule that your machine belongs to you is --
maybe -- Palladium.

- Lucas


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--- begin forwarded text


Status: RO
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 11:39:34 -0400
To: "R. A. Hettinga" 
From: Somebody
Subject: Re: "Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch...."(was Re: My brain hurts)

And then there was the one from Prairie Home Companion:

Q. Why is a viola larger than a violin?
A. It  just looks that way because a violin player's head is bigger.


>--- begin forwarded text
>
>
>Status: RO
>Delivered-To: fork@example.com
>From: "Joseph S. Barrera III" 
>Organization: Rose Garden Funeral of Sores
>User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.0 [-1214711651]
>To: Flatware or Road Kill? 
>Subject: Re: "Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch. Ouch...."(was Re: My brain hurts)
>Sender: fork-admin@xent.com
>Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:17:40 -0700
>
>There are so many good musician jokes.
>
>A couple of my favorites:
>
>Q. What's the difference between a viola and a violin?
>A. A viola burns longer.
>
>Q. What's the definition of a minor second?
>A. Two oboes playing in unison.
>
>- Joe
>
>
>http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
>
>--- end forwarded text
>
>
>--
>-----------------
>R. A. Hettinga 
>The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
>44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
>"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
>[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
>experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


-- 

--- end forwarded text


-- 
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."
--George Carlin
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To: 
Subject: A biblical digression
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> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
Adam
> L. Beberg

> 
> If the creator didnt say you could have it without paying, it's theft,
so
> simple, hell that's even in all the major holy books.

Ran across a site which claimed to explain the original meaning of the
Ten Commandments.  It seems some of those meanings have evolved a bit,
too.

In particular, there was a claim that the commandment on stealing was
actually specifically about 'man stealing -- selling a free man into
slavery.  Certainly the US southerners were particularly sensitive to
the term 'man stealer' in a way I didn't understand.

Yep, I know he said all holy books.  No, I don't know if this site was
blowing hot air.  It just read like someone had done their homework.



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This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by khare@alumni.caltech.edu.


Texas Pacific, in addition to its multibillion dollar portfolio detailed below, actually does invest in promising new companies, not just turnarounds. It's just that KnowNow is waaay to small of a part of their $7.2B portfolio... so far!

Rohit

khare@alumni.caltech.edu


Texas Pacific Goes Where Others Fear to Spend

August 25, 2002
By RIVA D. ATLAS and EDWARD WONG 




 

It was one of the first calls David N. Siegel placed when
he became chief executive of the beleaguered US Airways
last March. Seeking advice on how to hammer out a leaner
and meaner business plan, keep his planes flying and
renegotiate costly contracts with the unions, he flipped
through his files and found the number for the Texas
Pacific Group, an investment firm headed by David
Bonderman, a former civil rights lawyer with a reputation
for fixing problem companies. 

Mr. Siegel, once a top executive at Continental Airlines,
had watched Texas Pacific's partners turn an investment of
$66 million in the airline, made three years after it filed
for bankruptcy in 1990, into a profit of more than $600
million. And they had made nearly as much on their stake in
America West, which filed for bankruptcy in 1992. 

That search for advice turned into an offer. Why not let
Texas Pacific have a role in US Airways' revival? asked
Richard Schifter, the Texas Pacific executive whom Mr.
Siegel reached. 

In June, Mr. Siegel called Mr. Schifter again. And days
before US Airways announced its plans to file for
bankruptcy two weeks ago - but after it had negotiated
about $550 million in concessions with its unions - Texas
Pacific, based in Fort Worth and San Francisco, agreed to
kick in $100 million as part of a $500 million loan to keep
the company operating during bankruptcy. It also agreed to
buy $200 million of stock, or 38 percent of the company,
and take 5 of 13 seats on the board if US Airways emerges
from bankruptcy - unless another investor surfaces with a
better offer. 

"One of the reasons we were interested is few other folks
were," said James Coulter, a partner at Texas Pacific, in
an interview after the bankruptcy filing. "There aren't
many people around with the stomach or the knowledge to
delve into the airline industry." 

Texas Pacific, which manages $8 billion, thrives by buying
businesses no one else wants. Mr. Coulter and Mr. Bonderman
made their names during the recession of the early 1990's
with investments in Continental and America West. The
firm's hallmark is to take an active hand in shaping
companies, sometimes ousting poor managers and tapping its
extensive network of contacts for talented replacements. 

Now the partners are again looking for trouble. In the last
year alone, Texas Pacific has announced or completed six
acquisitions, most in unloved industries like
semiconductors, reinsurance and airlines. Just last month,
it announced plans to buy Burger King, which has been
losing market share, for $2.26 billion. It is also bidding
for Bankgesellschaft Berlin, a large and troubled bank. 

The most creative, and potentially lucrative, of these
deals could be Texas Pacific's acquisition last November of
MEMC Electronic Materials, a semiconductor company, for $6
- yes, just $6 - in cash. It will also guarantee a $150
million bank loan. 

In the last few years, most firms that specialize in
leveraged buyouts - the use of junk bonds, bank loans and
other borrowings to buy or take big stakes in companies -
have been largely inactive. Falling stock prices have made
managements reluctant to sell cheaply. Companies that are
for sale have tangled finances or face a cash squeeze. 

Texas Pacific is different. "This is a terrific environment
for them," said Stephen Schwarzman, chief executive of the
Blackstone Group, which also specializes in buyouts. 

Mark Attanasio, a managing director at Trust Company of the
West, which has invested with Texas Pacific, said: "Most
other buyout firms want to buy companies that are growing.
You don't see many guys wanting to take on operational
fixes." 

Like most other buyout firms, Texas Pacific tries to keep
its inner workings private: its partners rarely grant
interviews and its Web site is perpetually under
construction. Mr. Bonderman, Mr. Coulter and William Price,
the third founding partner, declined to be interviewed for
this article. 

Mr. Bonderman, 59, is known for his rumpled shirts and
bright, patterned socks. "He likes argyle socks, and they
tend to fall down around his ankles," said Henry Miller, an
investment banker who advises troubled companies. Early in
his career, when he was a Washington lawyer, Mr. Bonderman
argued a case in court wearing a brown velvet suit. 

When a Texas Pacific deal is being negotiated, he is known
for obsessively staying in touch, even when he is trekking
in places like Pakistan, Nepal and, most recently, Bhutan.
"Whenever I see a long, unfamiliar phone number pop up on
my caller I.D., I know it's David calling," said one
investment banker who often works with Mr. Bonderman. 

Mr. Bonderman made his reputation in the 1980's as the
chief investment officer for Robert Bass, the Texas oilman.
Mr. Bonderman enriched Mr. Bass a second time by making
early bets in industries like cable television and taking
stakes in troubled companies like American Savings & Loan,
which had been seized by the government. Over nearly a
decade, Mr. Bonderman's picks earned an average annual
return of 63 percent for Mr. Bass. 

In 1993, Mr. Bonderman struck out on his own with Mr.
Coulter, a former Lehman Brothers banker who had also
worked for Mr. Bass. They teamed up later that year with
Mr. Price, a veteran of GE Capital Capital and Bain &
Company, a consulting firm, to form Texas Pacific. 

The three men have complementary skills, investment bankers
and other deal makers said. Mr. Bonderman is the master
strategist and Mr. Coulter is good at structuring deals and
the detailed management of the firm's purchases. Mr. Price
often recruits managers and advises on operational issues. 

"David is very much the optimist, very much the deal
maker," said Greg Brenneman, a former president of
Continental. "Jim is very much a counterbalance to David.
He will sit back and ask the tough questions. He will
approach investments a little bit more skeptically than
David does." 

By the end of the 1990's, Texas Pacific was well
established in deal making. It easily raised $4.5 billion
from pension funds and other investors in early 2000. To
celebrate their war chest, the firm's partners rented San
Francisco's City Hall and hired the B-52's to play at a
party. 

But as the stock market began to tumble, Texas Pacific
hesitated. For a 17-month stretch, the partners made no
deals. They checked out some of the biggest corporate
blowups, including Adelphia, Xerox and Global Crossing, but
stayed away, finding the prices and the quality of the
businesses untenable. 

Instead, Texas Pacific began to hastily exit some existing
investments, taking more than $2 billion in profits during
that stretch. 

"They started to cash out early in the cycle," said Mario
Giannini, chief executive of Hamilton Lane, a money
management firm, some of whose clients are Texas Pacific
investors. 

The good times of the late 1990's were not ideal for Texas
Pacific - it struggled to find downtrodden companies that
needed its help. 

But Texas Pacific did manage to spot a few diamonds in the
rough. It revived Oxford Health Plans, the health
maintenance organization that nearly collapsed in the
mid-1990's, almost doubling its money after bringing in new
managers and upgrading computer systems. In 1996, it made a
$280 million investment in Ducati Motor, the Italian
motorcycle maker, whose profits have since more than
quadrupled. 

But Texas Pacific also stumbled, usually when it bought at
the top of the market. Texas Pacific's $560 million
investment in the J. Crew Group, the clothing retailer, for
which it paid a steep price of 10 times cash flow in 1997,
has been a disappointment. So has its 1999 purchase of
Bally, the shoe maker, which has suffered from lower demand
for luxury goods. 

Texas Pacific also lost more than $100 million on Zilog, a
semiconductor company, and Favorite Brands, a candy maker,
both of which filed for bankruptcy. 

Some of these investments have taken a toll on the firm's
performance. Texas Pacific is still selling off holdings in
two investment funds it raised over the last decade. The
first fund, a $720 million portfolio raised in 1993 and
including investments made through March 1997, should
return more than 40 percent, according to one Texas Pacific
investor. But its second fund - $2.5 billion raised in 1997
- could return less than half that, this investor
estimated, since the firm had less time to take profits on
these investments before the stock market sank. 

But because Texas Pacific has not sold many of its holdings
in the second fund, profits on these investments could
rebound. It is hoping, for example, that with new
management in place, J. Crew will turn around as the
economy rebounds. In any case, one competitor said, "their
returns look pretty good when you consider that some other
funds won't return any capital" to investors. 

But with the weak economy throwing many companies into
trouble, Texas Pacific seems poised to repeat its earlier
success, the investor said. "They should do exceptionally
well," he said. 

Texas Pacific has a distinct style - if not formula. It
relies on talented, self-sufficient managers to restructure
troubled companies, preferring to remain hands-off, except
for surveillance from the boardroom. When necessary, it
replaces managers. 

Less than a year after Continental emerged from bankruptcy,
for example, Mr. Bonderman watched with frustration as his
old friend Robert R. Ferguson, the chief executive, led it
to the edge of another trip to bankruptcy court. 

Continental's board, where Mr. Bonderman was chairman, then
brought in Gordon M. Bethune, an executive at Boeing, and
in October 1994 he replaced Mr. Ferguson as chief
executive. Mr. Bethune quickly did a top-to-bottom overhaul
of the company and is now considered a great turnaround
artist of the industry. 

"The biggest conflict I've ever seen was with Bob
Ferguson," said Clark Onstad, a former general counsel for
the Federal Aviation Administration, in describing the
thinking of Mr. Bonderman, whom he has known since the 1982
Braniff bankruptcy. "He chose Bethune over his longtime
friend Ferguson because he thought Bethune would do a
better job." 

At America West, Texas Pacific initiated an even more
extensive management overhaul. This time, the charge was
led by Mr. Coulter and Mr. Schifter, both directors. 

W. Douglas Parker, the current chief executive, flew to Mr.
Coulter's home in San Francisco to interview for the job of
chief financial officer. They talked for hours, and Mr.
Parker said the two men quickly realized they had "somewhat
kindred spirits." 

The board replaced most senior managers at America West,
except William Franke, the chief executive, who stepped
down last September. His restructuring plan had made the
airline profitable a year and a half before it emerged from
bankruptcy in August 1994. 

Texas Pacific owns just 3 percent of America West, worth
about $33.7 million. But those are controlling shares, and
the group holds more than 50 percent of the votes. 

"These are not passive investors, nor am I," said Donald L.
Sturm, a Denver businessman who serves on Continental's
board with Mr. Bonderman and Mr. Price. "You're active.
Your money is at stake. Your reputation is at stake." 

After overseeing managers who worked successfully with
unions at Continental and America West, Texas Pacific has a
good reputation with labor. That was one reason US Airways
was interested in a Texas Pacific investment, said Chris
Chiames, a spokesman for the airline. 

Mr. Siegel wanted an investor who would "be as labor
friendly as possible," Mr. Chiames said. But US Airways can
still entertain other bids this fall, and Marvin Davis, the
billionaire investor from Los Angeles, has expressed
interest. 

Texas Pacific's investment in Burger King, made with
Goldman, Sachs and Bain Capital, was announced after two
years of discussions among Texas Pacific's partners and the
chain's franchisees - even before the company, which had
been owned by Diageo, the liquor company, was put up for
sale, said Julian Josephson, chairman of the National
Franchisee Association, which represents most Burger King
franchisees. 

"We liked what they had to say about the human component of
the businesses they buy," Mr. Josephson said. Many other
owners, he added, "are dismissive of labor." 

At Burger King, Texas Pacific will also be working with an
executive it knows. Burger King's chief executive is John
Dasburg, the former chief executive of Northwest Airlines,
who met Mr. Bonderman and his partners when Northwest
bought out their stake in Continental in 1998. 

Unlike most buyout firms, Texas Pacific remains enamored
with the technology industry, despite the failure of so
many start-ups the last two years. It has focused on the
semiconductor industry, which like the airline industry is
highly cyclical. So far, though, results have been mixed. 

The firm's 1996 acquisition of the Paradyne Corporation,
which makes equipment for high-speed Internet connections,
has been a huge success. Texas Pacific split it in two and
took both parts public in the late 1990's, selling most of
its stakes for 23 times its investment. But a much larger
investment, its $400 million acquisition of Zilog, the chip
maker, in 1998, was made just before the economic crisis in
Asia caused chip prices to plummet. Zilog filed for
bankruptcy last year. 

Texas Pacific is still hoping for a turnaround at a third
company, ON Semiconductor, which it acquired for $1.6
billion three years ago. It invested $100 million more last
year. 

Its latest gamble on the industry, the $6 deal for MEMC,
may prove the most lucrative. The cost of mailing the
payment to E.On, based in D�sseldorf, Germany, was actually
more than the acquisition, one executive close to the deal
said. 

Texas Pacific, and its partners in the deal, Trust Company
of the West and Leonard Green & Partners, agreed to
guarantee a $150 million revolving line of credit. Texas
Pacific also assumed $900 million worth of debt, most of
which it swapped for more stock in the company. 

"They did a good job of timing the acquisition," said
Nabeel Gareeb, the company's chief executive, who noted
that in the last quarter MEMC reported its first profit
since the fourth quarter of 2000. 

But Texas Pacific's interest in airlines is clearly
sizable. Besides its involvement in Continental, America
West and US Airways, the company plans to buy Gate Gourmet,
the catering business of the bankrupt Swissair Group. 

Two years ago, Texas Pacific started a Web-based discount
ticket service called Hotwire. It put up most of the $75
million in seed money, then persuaded six airlines to
invest with it, said Karl Peterson, the chief executive.
Hotwire, instead of asking consumers to bid on tickets, as
Priceline does, shows the cheapest ticket on its Web site
but does not reveal the exact flight and travel time until
after the sale. 

The contraction of the new economy has undoubtedly hurt
Hotwire, which is privately owned. Mr. Peterson said that
the company was still unprofitable but that Texas Pacific
remains committed to it. 

Last spring, Mr. Peterson met Mr. Bonderman in Aspen to
talk about Hotwire and to go snowboarding. Mr. Bonderman
seemed perfectly willing to accompany Hotwire down the
steep Internet chute. But he does have his limits on risk,
Mr. Peterson discovered. Before going down the mountain,
Mr. Bonderman strapped on a helmet. � 

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/25/business/yourmoney/25TEXA.html?ex=1031278887&ei=1&en=05fca479b8bcee6b



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From: "John Hall" 
To: "'James Tauber'" , 
Subject: My source: RE: A biblical digression
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Remember I didn't say it was necessarily a good source, just that it
looked good.

The site was http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_10c7.htm

My memory of what they said was accurate.  I do not have the competence
to defend what they said.  James Tauber's response indicates a breadth
of knowledge I can't match.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Tauber [mailto:jtauber@jtauber.com]
> Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2002 9:51 AM
> To: johnhall@evergo.net; fork@example.com
> Subject: Re: A biblical digression
> 
> On Sat, 24 Aug 2002 11:07:00 -0700, "John Hall" 
> said:
> > Ran across a site which claimed to explain the original meaning of
the
> > Ten Commandments.  It seems some of those meanings have evolved a
bit,
> > too.
> 
> By "meanings have evolved" do you [or they] mean that the Hebrew words
> have changed meaning or that our understanding of the Hebrew words
have
> changed? Or do they posit a pre-Mosaic form of the laws that had
> evolved by time of the Pentateuch?
> 
> > In particular, there was a claim that the commandment on stealing
was
> > actually specifically about 'man stealing -- selling a free man into
> > slavery.
> 
> This seems bogus to me. A quick check of the text indicates the the
> Hebrew word in question is GANAV which elsewhere in the Pentateuch (eg
> Gen 44.8) is used to mean steal silver and gold amongst other things.
> 
> In July 1999, I made the following comment in response to a similar
> claim about the "real" meaning of one of the ten commandments:
> 
> """
> > The translations since cause problems at each successive remove
> 
> We have the original language versions, though, so this is not an
> issue.
> 
> > I'm sure most everyone is familiar with the argument that the
meaning of
> the commandment
> > is 'thou shalt not murder' rather than 'kill,'
> 
> This has nothing to do with successive translations. It is based on
our
> knowledge of the meaning of the Hebrew word "ratsach". Most modern
> translations I've seen translate it "murder" but elsewhere the word is
> used
> of an animal killing a human (something for which most English
speakers
> wouldn't use the word "murder").
> """
> - http://www.xent.com/FoRK-archive/july99/0163.html
> 
> 
> 
> James
> --
>   James Tauber
>   jtauber@jtauber.com

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On Sat, 24 Aug 2002 11:07:00 -0700, "John Hall" 
said:
> Ran across a site which claimed to explain the original meaning of the
> Ten Commandments.  It seems some of those meanings have evolved a bit,
> too.

By "meanings have evolved" do you [or they] mean that the Hebrew words
have changed meaning or that our understanding of the Hebrew words have
changed? Or do they posit a pre-Mosaic form of the laws that had
evolved by time of the Pentateuch?

> In particular, there was a claim that the commandment on stealing was
> actually specifically about 'man stealing -- selling a free man into
> slavery.

This seems bogus to me. A quick check of the text indicates the the
Hebrew word in question is GANAV which elsewhere in the Pentateuch (eg
Gen 44.8) is used to mean steal silver and gold amongst other things.

In July 1999, I made the following comment in response to a similar
claim about the "real" meaning of one of the ten commandments:

"""
> The translations since cause problems at each successive remove

We have the original language versions, though, so this is not an
issue.

> I'm sure most everyone is familiar with the argument that the meaning of the commandment
> is 'thou shalt not murder' rather than 'kill,'

This has nothing to do with successive translations. It is based on our
knowledge of the meaning of the Hebrew word "ratsach". Most modern
translations I've seen translate it "murder" but elsewhere the word is
used
of an animal killing a human (something for which most English speakers
wouldn't use the word "murder").
"""
- http://www.xent.com/FoRK-archive/july99/0163.html



James
-- 
  James Tauber
  jtauber@jtauber.com
http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Thugs of South Boston and The Revenge of the Bandit Princess


The Geodesic Economy
Robert A. Hettinga
Sunday, August 25, 2002

(BOSTON) When you think about it one way, the FBI/Winter Hill vs.
Patriarcha/Angiulo Cosa Nostra fight was just another race war
between thugs.

Put crudely, and at its most racist, the FBI and the Winter Hill Gang
were the (mostly) Irish thugs, and Patriarcha's "family" were, of
course, the (mostly) Italian thugs.


Think Scorsese's upcoming "Gangs of New York", only with
counter-reformatory overtones. Hoover's South Boston "social-club"
putsch, starting in the mid 1960's, was particularly audacious in
hindsight. The U.S. Federal Government actually decided to underwrite
a reversal of the prohibition-era capture of the nation's rackets by
the Italians from the Irish. The fact that the plot was hatched not
for New York, but for South Boston, the most Irish place in the US,
only makes even more gigantic the Big Lie that was told by the FBI to
its ostensible political masters about bringing down organized crime
there once and for all.

The result, as we all found out, wasn't swapping the heroin of
Italian Boston mob violence for Irish methadone. Hoover was,
posthumously, swapping it for Oxycontin, or crystal methamphetamine
- -- or, more properly, PCP. The absolute psychopathology of violence
in Whitey Bulger's crack-cocaine-era reign of Boston's drug markets,
like the identical FBI-sponsored reigns or violent horror by other
also-rans in cities across the US as a whole, went up whole orders of
magnitude, not mere percentage points.

As Stalin said once, quantity has a quality all it's own. And, make
no mistake, J. Edgar Hoover was directly responsible that "quality"
of carnage, nation-wide.


So, yes, on paper at least, it really *was* just the swapping of one
gang of racist thugs for another, and the result was, on paper, at
least, business as usual. Same stuff, different century, with
apparently decent people like Mr. Salvati et.al accidently ground on
the gears of "justice" like so much hamburger.

However, to be much more macabre about it, that hamburger was
"greasing", if you will, an auto de fe only a homicidal lunatic could
love: a perfectly functioning market, legislated out of existence --
on paper, if nowhere else -- by government fiat and the, back-door,
but still elitist, will to power of H.L. Mencken's famous "bluenoses
and busybodies".


It all starts, like all true evil does, from the most innocent of
beginnings. What she couldn't do to alcohol, teatotaling Mrs. Grundy
then tried to do to anything else she could think of that had a
smaller, "manageable" demand. The bloody result was, like nine more
heads of the hydra, an increasingly ubiquitous universal prohibition,
in more markets, and for more things, as the 20th century wore on.

Every time some recreational drug was found to be addictive, or
harmful, or physically distasteful, or carcinogenic -- or, now,
apparently, fattening -- and then prohibited, exactly the same thing
happened to its markets that happened to alcohol during the Volstead
years. A *larger* market than before the prohibition. Hugely
lucrative profits for anyone with the moral stomach to violently
scale newly-legislated "barriers to competition" imposed on them by
the state. Increasingly violent attacks by the government on users of
those substances. And, finally, the ultimate in evil -- the kind of
evil this country actually fought wars to end -- increasingly
coercive axe-handle beatings, by our own government, of the sacred
liberty of the average, but now unavoidably-law-breaking, citizenry.

As Ayn Rand cynically observed a long time ago, you don't need
government if nobody's breaking the law. In some twisted corollary to
Parkinson's Law, governments, to survive, *need* more people,
breaking more laws, or they can never justify the money they
confiscate at tax time.

And, to bring us back to the point, David Friedman would probably
echo here his father Milton's famous observation that government
regulations only benefit the regulated sellers in a given market, and
never the consumer, much less the economy as a whole. Even,
*especially*, if those sellers are *breaking* the law, as they are in
the increasingly ubiquitous prohibition of risky behavior that our
government now imposes on us.


And there, absent the apparent grace of Mr. Hoover, went Mr. Salvati.

In fact, Hayek himself, in "The Road to Serfdom", couldn't have
predicted any better the gory consequences of Hoover's blatant
imposition, "for our own good", of Vietnam-era statist power at the
neighborhood level. And, furthermore, *Stalin* couldn't have had
better "useful idiots" than Hoover did -- and neither, by an
absolutely literal extension, did Whitey Bulger after Hoover.

Useful idiots on both sides of the congressional aisle. Idiots who
were eating out of Hoover's power-craven hand for the entire middle
of the 20th century -- and Whitey Bulger's hand, whether they knew it
or not, until the end of the millennium. A time, you'll notice, which
saw the increasingly steady imposition of "mob" violence, and market
control, from both state and illegal interests, way beyond the
imaginings of even the most power-mad, rum-running, stock-kiting,
movie-flopping, bureau-pumping, Nazi-appeasing Irish-Bostonian Little
Caesar. Or, as for that matter, his safely trust-funded, and now
strictly political, descendents.

In terms of actual financial economics, think of what happened to Mr.
Salvati and the others, dead or alive, as a "transfer-price", in
human lives, of the inevitable consequence of MacNamara-style
Vietnam-era Keynesian "social-cost" input-output accounting at its
most despicable, and you can almost begin to fathom the atrocity that
was committed by Hoover, and his co-religionists in state economic
control, in the name of what really was, as you'll now agree, just a
race war between thugs up in Boston.


This shouldn't be a surprise, really. All race wars are at least
fought by thugs, though they're usually conceived elsewhere, and
endorsed, at the time, by all the "right" people, for all the "right"
reasons.

As far as the FBI itself goes, remember Mancur Olson's observation
that a "prince" is just a stationary bandit.

Though, given his penchant for women's clothing, for other men, and,
what's actually obscene, for violently hypocritical treatment of
people of his own affectional preference, I suppose we can call J.
Edgar Hoover a bandit "princess", instead.

"Bandit Queen", of course, would be a grievous insult to queens --
and real bandits -- everywhere.

Cheers,
RAH
- ---------


http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/25/national/25FBI.html?todaysheadlines=
&pagewanted=print&position=top


The New York Times
August 25, 2002
Hoover's F.B.I. and the Mafia: Case of Bad Bedfellows Grows By FOX
BUTTERFIELD

BOSTON, Aug. 24 - It was March 1965, in the early days of J. Edgar
Hoover's war against the Mafia. F.B.I. agents, say Congressional
investigators, eavesdropped on a conversation in the headquarters of
New England's organized-crime boss, Raymond Patriarca.

Two gangsters, Joseph Barboza and Vincent Flemmi, wanted Mr.
Patriarca's permission to kill a small-time hoodlum, Edward Deegan,
"as they were having a problem with him," according to an F.B.I. log
of the conversation. "Patriarca ultimately furnished this O.K.," the
F.B.I. reported, and three days later Mr. Deegan turned up dead in an
alley, shot six times.

It was an extraordinary situation: The Federal Bureau of
Investigation had evidence ahead of time that two well-known
gangsters were planning a murder and that the head of the New England
Mafia was involved.

But when indictments in the case were handed down in 1967, the real
killers - who also happened to be informers for the F.B.I. - were
left alone. Four other men were tried, convicted and sentenced to
death or life in prison for the murder, though they had had nothing
to do with it.

One, Joseph Salvati, who spent 30 years in prison, filed notice with
the Justice Department last week that he planned to sue the F.B.I.
for $300 million for false imprisonment.

His is the latest in a series of lawsuits against the F.B.I., the
Justice Department and some F.B.I. agents growing out of the tangled,
corrupt collaboration between gangsters and the F.B.I.'s Boston
office in its effort to bring down the mob.

The lawsuits are based on evidence uncovered in the last five years
in a judicial hearing and a Justice Department inquiry. But some of
the most explosive evidence has only recently come to light,
including documents detailing conversation in which Mr. Patriarca
approved the murder. They were released as part of an investigation
by the House Committee on Government Reform, which has pressured the
department into turning over records about the F.B.I in Boston.

The documents show that officials at F.B.I. headquarters, apparently
including Mr. Hoover, knew as long ago as 1965 that Boston agents
were employing killers and gang leaders as informers and were
protecting them from prosecution.

"J. Edgar Hoover crossed over the line and became a criminal
himself," said Vincent Garo, Mr. Salvati's lawyer. "He allowed a
witness to lie to put an innocent man in prison so he could protect
one of his informants."

Mr. Barboza was a crucial witness at trial against Mr. Salvati and
may have implicated him because Mr. Salvati owed $400 to a loan shark
who worked for Mr. Barboza.

Asked about the documents showing that Mr. Hoover knew of Mr.
Salvati's innocence when he was put on trial, Gail Marcinkiewicz, a
spokeswoman for the F.B.I. in Boston, declined to comment, citing the
pending litigation.

A Justice Department task force is continuing to investigate
misconduct in the Boston office. In one of the first results of the
investigation, one retired agent, John J. Connolly, is awaiting
sentencing next month after being convicted of racketeering and
obstruction of justice for helping two other mob leaders who were
F.B.I. informers, James Bulger and Stephen Flemmi. Vincent and
Stephen Flemmi are brothers.

The Government Reform Committee, led by Representative Dan Burton,
Republican of Indiana, has uncovered memorandums from the Boston
office to headquarters in Washington revealing the bureau's knowledge
that Vincent Flemmi and Mr. Barboza were involved in killing Mr.
Deegan. A memorandum a week after the killing described the crime,
including who fired the first shot.

Then, on June 4, 1965, Mr. Hoover's office demanded to know what
progress was being made in developing Vincent Flemmi as an informer.

In a reply five days later, the special agent in charge of the Boston
office said that Mr. Flemmi was in a hospital recovering from gunshot
wounds but because of his connections to Mr. Patriarca "potentially
could be an excellent informant."

The agent also informed Mr. Hoover that Mr. Flemmi was known to have
killed seven men, "and, from all indications, he is going to continue
to commit murder." Nevertheless, the agent said, "the informant's
potential outweighs the risk involved."

A Congressional investigator called the exchange chilling. "The most
frightening part is that after being warned about Flemmi's murders,
the director does not even respond," the investigator said. "There is
no message not to use a murderer as a government informant."

The origin of the corruption scandal was public and political
pressure on Mr. Hoover to move more forcefully against the growing
power of the Mafia, which he had largely ignored. In Boston, F.B.I.
agents recruited Mr. Barboza and Mr. Flemmi and developed close ties
to a rival criminal organization, the Winter Hill Gang, led by Mr.
Bulger.

Both sides got what they wanted, according to the investigations and
the trial of Mr. Connolly. The F.B.I. got information that eventually
helped destroy the Patriarca and Angiulo families, which controlled
organized crime in New England. Mr. Bulger's gang was able to take
over the rackets in Boston, sell drugs and even commit murder while
the F.B.I. looked the other way.

One reason the F.B.I. may not have used its information about Mr.
Patriarca's involvement in the Deegan murder, Congressional
investigators say, is that it came from an illegal listening device
in his Providence, R.I., headquarters. The F.B.I. agent who
transcribed the conversation made it appear that the information was
coming from unnamed informants, to disguise the use of the device,
the investigators say.

Mr. Salvati, a former truck driver, now 69, had his sentence commuted
in 1997 by Gov. William F. Weld. Last year, while he was still on
parole, his murder conviction was dismissed by a Massachusetts state
judge after the Justice Department task force made public documents
suggesting his innocence.

Two of the other wrongly convicted men died in prison. Their
survivors have joined the fourth man, Peter Limone, in a $375 million
lawsuit against the Justice Department. Mr. Limone was sentenced to
die in the electric chair. His life was spared only when
Massachusetts outlawed the death penalty in 1974.

Mr. Salvati lives in a modest apartment in Boston's North End with
his wife, Marie, who visited him in prison every week during those 30
years. Each week Mr. Salvati sent her a romantic card, which she put
on the television set. It was, Mr. Garo said, all they had of each
other.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 7.5

iQA/AwUBPWmB2sPxH8jf3ohaEQL9qgCgxHq0ee06UEsNv8u8wgvmjf9K7S4An3Rb
3srsGomWjNDwIaKoEHOfNHpI
=OELD
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
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>>From what I read, the rest of it looked quite good so it does seem odd
they would make the seemingly incorrect blanket statement about the
Hebrew for "steal". One possibility is that the page is a summary of
information gathered from a variety of sources of varying qualities.

James

On Sun, 25 Aug 2002 10:17:46 -0700, "John Hall" 
said:
> Remember I didn't say it was necessarily a good source, just that it
> looked good.
> 
> The site was http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_10c7.htm
> 
> My memory of what they said was accurate.  I do not have the competence
> to defend what they said.  James Tauber's response indicates a breadth
> of knowledge I can't match.


-- 
  James Tauber
  jtauber@jtauber.com
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Does anyone here know if the Computational Recreations columns from 
Scientific American in the 70's/80's were compiled into a book or two? I 
think I remember Martin Gardner publishing the earlier Mathematical 
Recreations in a couple of hard covers, but I'm unsure about the later 
column. Help?

...Ross...

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Hire a really talented skywriter to doodle nudie pics in the sky and see
if they figure out what to charge you with. Exactly how far into the sky
does the border of your local district reach?

> > If the creator didnt say you could have it without paying, it's theft,
> > so simple, hell that's even in all the major holy books.
>
> Wow, I've got a great idea!  I'll hire a skywriter to write "you can't
> look at this without paying," then lock up everybody who looked at it
> and didn't pay!  It can't fail -- Jesus is on my side!

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On 26 Aug 2002, RossO wrote:

--]Does anyone here know if the Computational Recreations columns from
--]Scientific American in the 70's/80's were compiled into a book or two? I
--]think I remember Martin Gardner publishing the earlier Mathematical
--]Recreations in a couple of hard covers, but I'm unsure about the later
--]column. Help?
--]

Not sure about MG, though I know pretty much everything he penned got into
print at one time or another.  SA needs to do what National Geo did and
put out thier back issues on CD.

Post MG in the 80's there were the colums by A K Dewdney that I dug a
bunch put into a book  called Turing Omnibus and then there is , of
course, all the goodens put out by Dougy Hoffstadler.



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R. A. Hettinga wrote:
> And then there was the one from Prairie Home Companion:
> 
> Q. Why is a viola larger than a violin?
> A. It  just looks that way because a violin player's head is bigger.

Suggested variation:

Q. Why does the concertmaster play a smaller violin
    than the rest of the violinists?
A. It just looks that way because his head is bigger.

&c&c&c


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Adam L. Beberg wrote:
> Fair use needs to be clarified a bit

That's an understatement!!!

> How else do i ever have hope of finding a job working for someone
> that makes things people are supposed to ... *drumroll* pay for.

Well, you could damn well get a fucking better attitude.
I practically handed you a job the other week and you
pissed all over me. I'm done helping you. You have joined
a very exclusive club that up to now has only had my sister
as a member.

- Joe



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From: "Jim Whitehead" 
To: "FoRK" 
Subject: How unlucky can you get?
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So, last night around 5:30AM I'm woken up by a loud *craaack*, followed by
one of the most dreaded sounds a homeowner ever hears: vast quantities of
water spilling onto the floor. The water is coming from the bathroom, the
toilet specifically. Turns out the water cistern on the top of the toilet
had cracked down the side, and was spilling out all the water.

So, after shutting off the water and mopping up, I was left to ponder what
are the odds of having mechanical failure of a large rectangular porcelain
bowl, in the absence of any visible stressors (like someone striking it with
a sledgehammer)? We hadn't done anything unusual to the toilet in the recent
past -- just normal use. I've *never* heard of this happening to anyone I
know. The guts, yeah, they fail all the time. But the storage bowl -- never.

Geesh.

- Jim

http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork

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On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Jim Whitehead wrote:
--]a sledgehammer)? We hadn't done anything unusual to the toilet in the recent
--]past -- just normal use. I've *never* heard of this happening to anyone I
--]know. The guts, yeah, they fail all the time. But the storage bowl -- never.
--]

Do you have any Tesla nuts inthe hood? Them hooligans and thier beams..

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At 01:12 AM 8/24/02 -0700, Adam L. Beberg wrote:

>If the creator didnt say you could have it without paying, it's theft, so
>simple, hell that's even in all the major holy books.

In which world are we talking about?  That may be true for the first sale, 
but once something is out in the world, the "creator" loses control... If I 
buy a chair you built, and then decide to give it away to my neighbor, by 
you're definition, he just stole from you.

>Fair use needs to be clarified a bit and then I hope they start locking
>people up. How else do i ever have hope of finding a job working for someone
>that makes things people are supposed to ... *drumroll* pay for.

Why is it that people don't understand that giving stuff away is a 
perfectly acceptable tactic in capitalist businesses?  In many places, it's 
called "advertising": "buy one, get one free", "free shipping on any order 
over $25", "buy this couch, and get a coffee table for free", "free popcorn 
with any movie rental", "free doorprize to the first 100 people who enter", 
"the author will be signing books (for free) at such and such bookstore".

Access to free stuff often helps to sell other stuff.  Just because you 
(and the entertainment industry, it seems) can't be creative enough to come 
up with a business model to leverage free stuff into paid stuff... don't 
take it out on the rest of us.

Mike

http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork

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On Mon, 2002-08-26 at 11:41, Mike Masnick wrote:
> 
> In which world are we talking about?  That may be true for the first sale, 
> but once something is out in the world, the "creator" loses control... If I 
> buy a chair you built, and then decide to give it away to my neighbor, by 
> you're definition, he just stole from you.


There are specific statutory exemptions to the "first sale" principle of
fair use in the US.  For example, audio recordings have such an
exemption (dating from the early '80s IIRC), which is why you can't
(legally) be in the business of renting audio CDs; the creators can
control what you do with it after they've sold it to you.  Certain
industries would like to extend similar exemptions to other products --
there is no theoretical limit to what Congress could revoke such
privileges on.

 
> Access to free stuff often helps to sell other stuff.  Just because you 
> (and the entertainment industry, it seems) can't be creative enough to come 
> up with a business model to leverage free stuff into paid stuff... don't 
> take it out on the rest of us.


The problem with the entertainment industry is that they engage in
business and pricing tactics that make anything Microsoft was ever
accused of pale in comparison.  If they can't figure out how to make
money doing something, they'll actually burn money to make sure no
"industry outsider" can either for all intents and purposes; control is
more important than maximizing profit as long as they can make a
profit.  They don't need your carrot, so they only engage in reasonable
business behavior when you are carrying a very large stick, and few
people swing a stick large enough.  They are being chronically
"investigated" by the DoJ for anti-trust, collusion, and similar
activities, but that is mostly just for show.

Which isn't to say that the entertainment industry won't fall victim to
its own stupidity, but their ability to do arbitrary and capricious
price manipulation with impunity is going to make it a slow decline.

-James Rogers
 jamesr@best.com



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Actually, this is common. I've known a couple of
people who have suffered this. Believe it or not,
you were lucky. You were home, rather than on
vacation, and so you didn't have the intake line
flowing onto the floor for two weeks.

Now, don't you feel better?



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

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Subject: Re: The Curse of India's Socialism
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I think that this and other articles confuse Socialism with 
Bureaucracy.  Libertarianism as implemented in North America is not 
exactly the shining pinnacle of economic efficiency.

Just try starting a telephone company in the US or (even worse) 
Canada.  It can take a year or more to get the blessing of our own 
"Permit Rajs" at the FCC, PUC, and PTTs (or, in the decidedly more 
socialist leaning Canada, Industry Canada and the CRTC).

Yet, despite all of this intense regulation and paper pushing, as 
well as regulatory scrutiny by the FTC, SEC, and IRS, the 
executives of Telecom Companies have managed to bilk the investment 
community for what looks to be tens of billions of dollars.  They 
finished their routine with the a quadruple lutz -- laying off 
hundreds of thousands of workers when it all came crashing down.

So.. tell me again.. how are we better off?

-Ian.


On Tuesday, August 20, 2002, at 12:09 PM, John Hall wrote:

> The Mystery of Capital: Why Capitalism Triumphs in the West and Fails
> Everywhere Else -- by Hernando De Soto	
>
> Is something I'm reading now.
>
> My impression is that France is not anywhere near the "Permit Raj"
> nightmare that India is (and became).  Nor has its market been closed
> like India's has.
>
> But De Soto's work is perhaps just as important or more so.  He hasn't
> dealt specifically with India, but I recall examples from Peru,
> Philippines, and Egypt.  In Lima, his team took over a year (I think it
> was 2) working 8 hr days to legally register a 1 person company.  
> In the
> Philippines, getting legal title can take 20 years.  In Egypt, 
> about 80%
> of the population in Cairo lives in places where they are officially
> illegal.
>
> India hasn't been helped by its socialism.  Socialism has certainly
> helped strangle the country in permits.  But perhaps De Soto is right
> that the real crippling thing is keeping most of the people out of the
> legal, official property system.
>
> Putting most of the people in the property system was something 
> the west
> only finished about 100 years ago, or Japan did 50 years ago.  It 
> wasn't
> easy, but we live in a society that doesn't even remember we did it.
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
> Robert
>> Harley
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 11:24 AM
>> To: fork@example.com
>> Subject: Re: The Curse of India's Socialism
>>
>> RAH quoted:
>>> Indians are not poor because there are too many of them; they are
> poor
>>> because there are too many regulations and too much government
>> intervention
>>> -- even today, a decade after reforms were begun. India's greatest
>> problems
>>> arise from a political culture guided by socialist instincts on the
> one
>>> hand and an imbedded legal obligation on the other hand.
>>
>> Nice theory and all, but s/India/France/g and the statements hold just
>> as true, yet France is #12 in the UN's HDI ranking, not #124.
>>
>>
>>> Since all parties must stand for socialism, no party espouses
>>> classical liberalism
>>
>> I'm not convinced that that classical liberalism is a good solution
>> for countries in real difficulty.  See Joseph Stiglitz (Nobel for
>> Economics) on the FMI's failed remedies.  Of course googling on
>> "Stiglitz FMI" only brings up links in Spanish and French.  I guess
>> that variety of spin is non grata in many anglo circles.
>>
>>
>> R
>> http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
>
> http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork

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I think that this and other articles confuse Socialism with 
Bureaucracy.  Libertarianism as implemented in North America is not 
exactly the shining pinnacle of economic efficiency.

Just try starting a telephone company in the US or (even worse) 
Canada.  It can take a year or more to get the blessing of our own 
"Permit Rajs" at the FCC, PUC, and PTTs (or, in the decidedly more 
socialist leaning Canada, Industry Canada and the CRTC).

Yet, despite all of this intense regulation and paper pushing, as 
well as regulatory scrutiny by the FTC, SEC, and IRS, the 
executives of Telecom Companies have managed to bilk the investment 
community for what looks to be tens of billions of dollars.  They 
finished their routine with the a quadruple lutz -- laying off 
hundreds of thousands of workers when it all came crashing down.

So.. tell me again.. how are we better off?

-Ian.


On Tuesday, August 20, 2002, at 12:09 PM, John Hall wrote:

> The Mystery of Capital: Why Capitalism Triumphs in the West and Fails
> Everywhere Else -- by Hernando De Soto	
>
> Is something I'm reading now.
>
> My impression is that France is not anywhere near the "Permit Raj"
> nightmare that India is (and became).  Nor has its market been closed
> like India's has.
>
> But De Soto's work is perhaps just as important or more so.  He hasn't
> dealt specifically with India, but I recall examples from Peru,
> Philippines, and Egypt.  In Lima, his team took over a year (I think it
> was 2) working 8 hr days to legally register a 1 person company.  
> In the
> Philippines, getting legal title can take 20 years.  In Egypt, 
> about 80%
> of the population in Cairo lives in places where they are officially
> illegal.
>
> India hasn't been helped by its socialism.  Socialism has certainly
> helped strangle the country in permits.  But perhaps De Soto is right
> that the real crippling thing is keeping most of the people out of the
> legal, official property system.
>
> Putting most of the people in the property system was something 
> the west
> only finished about 100 years ago, or Japan did 50 years ago.  It 
> wasn't
> easy, but we live in a society that doesn't even remember we did it.
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
> Robert
>> Harley
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 11:24 AM
>> To: fork@example.com
>> Subject: Re: The Curse of India's Socialism
>>
>> RAH quoted:
>>> Indians are not poor because there are too many of them; they are
> poor
>>> because there are too many regulations and too much government
>> intervention
>>> -- even today, a decade after reforms were begun. India's greatest
>> problems
>>> arise from a political culture guided by socialist instincts on the
> one
>>> hand and an imbedded legal obligation on the other hand.
>>
>> Nice theory and all, but s/India/France/g and the statements hold just
>> as true, yet France is #12 in the UN's HDI ranking, not #124.
>>
>>
>>> Since all parties must stand for socialism, no party espouses
>>> classical liberalism
>>
>> I'm not convinced that that classical liberalism is a good solution
>> for countries in real difficulty.  See Joseph Stiglitz (Nobel for
>> Economics) on the FMI's failed remedies.  Of course googling on
>> "Stiglitz FMI" only brings up links in Spanish and French.  I guess
>> that variety of spin is non grata in many anglo circles.
>>
>>
>> R
>> http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
>
> http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork

http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0374.ee8aa01327991442d06f41641b7b2fac.eml000066400000000000000000000140651444326627400311120ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Aug 26 21:47:40 2002
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I think that this and other articles confuse Socialism with 
Bureaucracy.  Libertarianism as implemented in North America is not 
exactly the shining pinnacle of economic efficiency.

Just try starting a telephone company in the US or (even worse) 
Canada.  It can take a year or more to get the blessing of our own 
"Permit Rajs" at the FCC, PUC, and PTTs (or, in the decidedly more 
socialist leaning Canada, Industry Canada and the CRTC).

Yet, despite all of this intense regulation and paper pushing, as 
well as regulatory scrutiny by the FTC, SEC, and IRS, the 
executives of Telecom Companies have managed to bilk the investment 
community for what looks to be tens of billions of dollars.  They 
finished their routine with the a quadruple lutz -- laying off 
hundreds of thousands of workers when it all came crashing down.

So.. tell me again.. how are we better off?

-Ian.


On Tuesday, August 20, 2002, at 12:09 PM, John Hall wrote:

> The Mystery of Capital: Why Capitalism Triumphs in the West and Fails
> Everywhere Else -- by Hernando De Soto	
>
> Is something I'm reading now.
>
> My impression is that France is not anywhere near the "Permit Raj"
> nightmare that India is (and became).  Nor has its market been closed
> like India's has.
>
> But De Soto's work is perhaps just as important or more so.  He hasn't
> dealt specifically with India, but I recall examples from Peru,
> Philippines, and Egypt.  In Lima, his team took over a year (I think it
> was 2) working 8 hr days to legally register a 1 person company.  
> In the
> Philippines, getting legal title can take 20 years.  In Egypt, 
> about 80%
> of the population in Cairo lives in places where they are officially
> illegal.
>
> India hasn't been helped by its socialism.  Socialism has certainly
> helped strangle the country in permits.  But perhaps De Soto is right
> that the real crippling thing is keeping most of the people out of the
> legal, official property system.
>
> Putting most of the people in the property system was something 
> the west
> only finished about 100 years ago, or Japan did 50 years ago.  It 
> wasn't
> easy, but we live in a society that doesn't even remember we did it.
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
> Robert
>> Harley
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 11:24 AM
>> To: fork@example.com
>> Subject: Re: The Curse of India's Socialism
>>
>> RAH quoted:
>>> Indians are not poor because there are too many of them; they are
> poor
>>> because there are too many regulations and too much government
>> intervention
>>> -- even today, a decade after reforms were begun. India's greatest
>> problems
>>> arise from a political culture guided by socialist instincts on the
> one
>>> hand and an imbedded legal obligation on the other hand.
>>
>> Nice theory and all, but s/India/France/g and the statements hold just
>> as true, yet France is #12 in the UN's HDI ranking, not #124.
>>
>>
>>> Since all parties must stand for socialism, no party espouses
>>> classical liberalism
>>
>> I'm not convinced that that classical liberalism is a good solution
>> for countries in real difficulty.  See Joseph Stiglitz (Nobel for
>> Economics) on the FMI's failed remedies.  Of course googling on
>> "Stiglitz FMI" only brings up links in Spanish and French.  I guess
>> that variety of spin is non grata in many anglo circles.
>>
>>
>> R
>> http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
>
> http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork

http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0375.54d0a570b81851127b73cebb8741a2df.eml000066400000000000000000000134261444326627400311140ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Aug 26 21:57:50 2002
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From: "Rob Shavell" 
To: "'Eugen Leitl'" ,
	"'Mike Masnick'" ,
	"'Joseph S. Barrera III'" ,
	"'Ian Andrew Bell'" 
Cc: 
Subject: RE: sprint delivers the next big thing??
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thx for the thoughts gentlemen (yes as someone said i use terms loosely) -

more than cool --->

quality: snobs only care about mpixels. this is about communications.  the
general public cares about speed not quality.  how is akamai doing these
days? not to mention any other QOS businesses that come to mind.

implementation: point about hooking to usb, wires, etc. AGREE 100%. these
implementations are super clunky, attachable camera needs to be integrated a
la nokia model.  basically useless until better handsets are released i
think.

adoption: ian brought up the 'fax' problem.  brilliant thing is, this is far
more personal than faxes so can be justified more easily and marketed in
family packs etc. but yes, the usual rules apply as MMS phones have network
efx.

content: who cares about content?  that no one can think of 'useful' content
is always the business persons mistake. the content is the users
communications.  its anything and everything.  avg person could easily send
half dozen pics to a dozen people a day.  mainly humorous i'd guess. who
cares if content is trivial in nature. picture speaks a thousand words.

display: why are dig camera displays better than cell phones?  does anyone
know who makes these small displays and what the trends are around them?

misc ramblings: i suppose you skeptical forkers would have said the same
thing about '1 hour photo' processing.  trivial, who needs it, i get better
resultion elswhere.  and yet, it had great decentralizing impact - the plant
had to be downsized and pushed to the retail operation - the digital camera,
and finally the integrated digital camera phone brings this cycle of
decentralization in photography to a logical conclusion (which will put the
photo giants to bed) and change the world in a meaningful way.  also, SMS
didn't take off because its easy, it took off because it costs less.  its
greatly ironic the carriers often trumpet the 'profitabilty' of their SMS
traffic over others because of its ratio of cost to bandwidth.  in reality,
SMS cannibilizes the voice rev's they bought their networks to handle.

ps:  it is relatively amusing that one 'low resolution' complaint dropped
just after Joe watched a CARTOON on his television..

You're right. Or at least, I don't. I saw an advert for it on TV last
night (can't miss Futurama :-) and I thought, "boy, that's dumb."
If I wanted to share pictures with someone, I'd email them to them,
where they could see them on a 1024x or 1600x display, instead of

rob


-----Original Message-----
From: Eugen Leitl [mailto:eugen@leitl.org]
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 1:34 AM
To: Rob Shavell
Cc: fork@example.com
Subject: Re: sprint delivers the next big thing??


On Sun, 18 Aug 2002, Rob Shavell wrote:

> down in the tech world than mobile visual communications.. and yet no one
> seems to give much of a damn that right now that 2 persons can take photos
> and share them instantly across space.  this is one of the biggest - and

The word "trivial" comes to mind.

> last - fundamental changes in human communications.  will be as big as the
> browser.

Remote realtime streaming video is neat, but sharing pictures? You invoke
big words rather readily.

http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0376.c0225fd19682f7ac58d090b6528af380.eml000066400000000000000000000201461444326627400310500ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Aug 26 21:57:51 2002
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right Mike,

i will agree to disagree but i take your comments to heart.  my opinion is
only that this is one of the last frontiers of communications ('instant
show') that we cross easily (though you are right as rain on pricing).  i am
mildly amused at the level of skepticism and innatention it is getting.

my premise is that the world will change in dramatic and unexpected ways
once there are a billion 'eye's' which can instantly share what they see
amongst each other.  that doesn't mean that people will stop talking on
their phones, or that people will spend more time w/images than voice.  just
that it is fundamental.  from news to crime to privacy to dating to family
life to bloopers and practical jokes, i believe there will be an explosion
of images unleashed specifically by cell phone integrated lenses because of
their utter ubiquity that dwarfs all pictures taken in the history of
photography by orders of magnitude and in short order. and yes, changes
things 'big time'.

rgds,
rob


-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Masnick [mailto:mike@techdirt.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 11:58 PM
To: Rob Shavell
Cc: fork@example.com
Subject: RE: sprint delivers the next big thing??


Not to keep harping on this, but...

At 11:36 PM 8/20/02 -0700, Rob Shavell wrote:

>content: who cares about content?  that no one can think of 'useful'
content
>is always the business persons mistake. the content is the users
>communications.  its anything and everything.  avg person could easily send
>half dozen pics to a dozen people a day.  mainly humorous i'd guess. who
>cares if content is trivial in nature. picture speaks a thousand words.

This does nothing to answer my question.  I *do* care about content.  Hell,
if I could be convinced that people would send stupid pics back and forth
all day, I'd have a different opinion of this.  I just am not convinced
that they will (stupid or not).

While a picture may be worth a thousand words (and this is the same
argument the guy who works for me made), how many people do you know who
communicate by pictures?  Sure, it sounds nice to say that a picture is
such an efficient messaging mechanism, but how often do you actually find
yourself drawing someone a picture to explain something?

I don't buy it.

For most messages, text works fine and is the most efficient
mechanism.  For some messages, pictures do the job, but I would say not
nearly as often as words.  Why do you think Pictionary and Charades and
such are games?  Because images are usually not the most efficient way to
get a message across.

>misc ramblings: i suppose you skeptical forkers would have said the same
>thing about '1 hour photo' processing.  trivial, who needs it, i get better
>resultion elswhere.  and yet, it had great decentralizing impact - the
plant
>had to be downsized and pushed to the retail operation - the digital
camera,
>and finally the integrated digital camera phone brings this cycle of
>decentralization in photography to a logical conclusion (which will put the
>photo giants to bed) and change the world in a meaningful way.  also, SMS
>didn't take off because its easy, it took off because it costs less.  its
>greatly ironic the carriers often trumpet the 'profitabilty' of their SMS
>traffic over others because of its ratio of cost to bandwidth.  in reality,
>SMS cannibilizes the voice rev's they bought their networks to handle.

Again, this is the same argument my colleague made (along with "you just
don't understand kids today, and they'll run with this").  I wasn't saying
that MMS wouldn't take off because it wasn't high quality or that it wasn't
easy.  I was saying that I couldn't see why people would use it in a way
that "changed the face of communications".

I'm looking for the compelling reason (even if it's a stupid one) why
people would want to do this.  Sure, if they integrate cameras into the
phone, and the quality improves (even only marginally) I can certainly see
people taking pictures with their cameras and occasionally sending them to
other people.  But, mostly, I don't see what the benefit is to this over
sending them to someone's email address, or putting together an online (or
offline) photoalbum.

I don't think 1 hour photos are trivial.  People want to see their own pics
right away, and the quality is plenty good enough for snapshots.  That's
one of the main reasons why digital cameras are catching on.  The instant
view part.  I'm guessing your argument is that people not only want
"instant view", but also "instant show".  Which is what this service
offers.  I'm not convinced that most people want "instant show".  I think
people like to package their pictures and show them.  That's why people put
together fancy albums, and sit there and force you to go through them while
they explain every picture.  Sure, occasionally "instant show" is nice, but
it's just "nice" on occasion.  I still can't see how it becomes a integral
messaging method.

What's the specific benefit of taking a picture and immediately sending it
from one phone to another?  There has to be *some* benefit, even if it's
silly if people are going to flock to it.

I'm searching... no one has given me a straight answer yet.

The *only* really intriguing idea I've heard about things like MMS lately
are Dan Gillmor's assertion that one day in the near future some news event
will happen, and a bunch of people will snap pictures with their mobile
phones, from all different angles, and those photos tell the real story of
what happened - before the press even gets there.

Willing to be proven wrong,
Mike

PS If the wireless carriers continue to price these services as stupidly as
they currently are, then MMS is *never* going to catch on.

http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork

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Subject: Re: The Curse of India's Socialism
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Justin Mason writes:
>So IMO it's the corruption that's the problem; and corruption !=
>regulation, and corruption != socialism.   Also, over-population is really
>a symptom of that.

Without addressing the overpopulation argument, the more bureaucracy,
the more opportunity for corruption. If a corporation is corrupt,
there are generally, absent more government intervention,
alternatives. With bureacracy that is more difficult; one generally
most uproot oneself and move.
http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is MIME?

MIME stands for "Multipurpose Internet Mail Extensions".  It is the
standard for how to send multipart, multimedia, and binary data using the
world-wide Internet email system.  Typical uses of MIME include sending
images, audio, wordprocessing documents, programs, or even plain text
files when it is important that the mail system does not modify any part
of the file.  MIME also allows for labelling message parts so that a
recipient (or mail program) may determine what to do with them. 

How can I read a MIME message?

Since MIME is only a few years old, there are still some mailers in use
which do not understand MIME messages.  However, there are a growing
number of mail programs that have MIME support built-in.  (One popular
MIME-capable mailer for Unix, VMS and PCs is Pine, developed at the
University of Washington and available via anonymous FTP from the host
ftp.cac.washington.edu in the file /pine/pine.tar.Z)

In addition, several proprietary email systems provide MIME translation
capability in their Internet gateway products.  However, even if you do
not have access to a MIME-capable mailer or suitable gateway, there is
still hope! 

There are a number of stand-alone programs that can interpret a MIME
message.  One of the more versatile is called "munpack".  It was developed
at Carnegie Mellon University and is available via anonymous FTP from the
host ftp.andrew.cmu.edu in the directory pub/mpack/.  There are versions
available for Unix, PC, Mac and Amiga systems.  For compabibility with
older forms of transferring binary files, the munpack program can also
decode messages in split-uuencoded format. 

Does MIME replace UUENCODE?

Yes.  UUENCODE has been used for some time for encoding binary files so
that they can be sent via Internet mail, but it has several technical
limitations and interoperability problems.  MIME uses a more robust
encoding called "Base64" which has been carefully designed to survive the
message transformations made by certain email gateways. 

How can I learn more about MIME?

The MIME Internet standard is described in RFC-1521, available via
anonymous FTP from many different Internet hosts, including: 
                                                       
     o  US East Coast                            
        Address:  ds.internic.net (198.49.45.10)        
                                                        
     o  US West Coast                            
        Address:  ftp.isi.edu (128.9.0.32)      
                                                        
     o  Pacific Rim                              
        Address:  munnari.oz.au (128.250.1.21)  
                                                        
     o  Europe                                   
        Address:  nic.nordu.net (192.36.148.17) 

Look for the file /rfc/rfc1521.txt

Another source of information is the Internet news group "comp.mail.mime",
which includes a periodic posting of a "Frequently Asked Questions" list.

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On Thu, 22 Aug 2002, Lucas Gonze wrote:

>
> Political mail (the snail kind) doesn't bother me.  I like it a lot of the
> time, because as crap as it is at least it's not the kind of info you get
> on TV.  Particularly for small time local politics, it's the best way to
> get information.

Except that thanks to the magic of spam, it's usually some else's locale

> but what matters is that mail is speech, and political email has to be as
> well protected as any other political speech.  Spam is *the* tool for
> dissident news, since the face that it's unsolicited means that recipients
> can't be blamed for being on a mailing list.

A terrible argument. There are better technical solutions to privacy
protection than sending a copy of the same message to everyone on the
Internet, so the recipients can't be blamed for reading it.

Wait till phone spam is as cheap to send as email spam...

Dan



http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork

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From: Adam Shostack 
To: Kragen Sitaker 
Cc: fork@example.com
Subject: Re: the underground software vulnerability marketplace and its
    hazards (fwd)
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Hi Kragen,

   This is an interesting analysis.  I think that there are a couple
of nits I might pick (for example, I don't expect that the market will
be well developed with highest bidders for while), I think that the
most important issue, which is that end users won't be able to fix
their systems, is almost passed over.  I know that you know this, and
you allude to it, but your essay is getting passed around, so you
might want to add to it bits about the sysadmin and others.

   There's one other point which you don't make, which I think is very
important, which is that research into defining and addressing classes
of vulnerabilities can't happen without libraries of available
vulnerability code.  I can think of three researchers into automated
methods for addressing vulnerabilities who griped, uninvited, about
the quality of the existing vulnerability sites.  Doing research into
a set requires that you have enough examples, in the open, that you
can define a set, and that the set is added to from time to time so
you can make and test predictions.

   I feel fairly confident in saying that without full disclosure, we
wouldn't have Stackguard, ITS4, Nissus, or snort.  And the security
admin's job would be a lot harder.

Adam


On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 08:42:12AM +0200, Eugen Leitl wrote:
| -- 
| -- Eugen* Leitl leitl
| ______________________________________________________________
| ICBMTO: N48 04'14.8'' E11 36'41.2'' http://eugen.leitl.org
| 83E5CA02: EDE4 7193 0833 A96B 07A7  1A88 AA58 0E89 83E5 CA02
| 
| 
| ---------- Forwarded message ----------
| Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 00:24:54 -0400 (EDT)
| From: Kragen Sitaker 
| To: fork@example.com
| Subject: the underground software vulnerability marketplace and its hazards
| 
| On August 7th, an entity known as "iDEFENSE" sent out an announcement,
| which is appended to this email.  Briefly, "iDEFENSE", which bills
| itself as "a global security intelligence company", is offering cash
| for information about security vulnerabilities in computer software
| that are not publicly known, especially if you promise not to tell
| anyone else.
| 
| If this kind of secret traffic is allowed to continue, it will pose a
| very serious threat to our computer communications infrastructure.
| 
| At the moment, the dominant paradigm for computer security research
| known as "full disclosure"; people who discover security
| vulnerabilities in software tell the vendor about them, and a short
| while later --- after the vendor has had a chance to fix the problem
| --- they publish the information, including code to exploit the
| vulnerability, if possible.  
| 
| This method has proven far superior to the old paradigm established by
| CERT in the late 1980s, which its proponents might call "responsible
| disclosure" --- never release working exploit code, and never release
| any information on the vulnerability before all vendors have released
| a patch.  This procedure often left hundreds of thousands of computers
| vulnerable to known bugs for months or years while the vendors worked
| on features, and often, even after the patches were released, people
| wouldn't apply them because they didn't know how serious the problem
| was.
| 
| The underground computer criminal community would often discover and
| exploit these same holes for months or years while the "responsible
| disclosure" process kept their victims, who had no connections in the
| underground, vulnerable.
| 
| The problem with this is that vulnerabilities that are widely known
| are much less dangerous, because their victims can take steps to
| reduce their potential impact --- including disabling software,
| turning off vulnerable features, filtering traffic in transit, and
| detecting and responding to intrusions.  They are therefore much less
| useful to would-be intruders.  Also, software companies usually see
| security vulnerabilities in their software as PR problems, and so
| prefer to delay publication (and the expense of fixing the bugs) as
| long as possible.
| 
| iDEFENSE is offering a new alternative that appears far more dangerous
| than either of the two previous paradigms.  They want to be a buyer in
| a marketplace for secret software vulnerability information, rewarding
| discoverers of vulnerabilities with cash.  
| 
| Not long before, Snosoft, a group of security researchers evidently
| including some criminal elements, apparently made an offer to sell the
| secrecy of some software vulnerability information to the software
| vendor; specifically, they apparently made a private offer to
| Hewlett-Packard to keep a vulnerability in HP's Tru64 Unix secret if
| HP retained Snosoft's "consulting services".  HP considered this
| extortion and responded with legal threats, and Snosoft published the
| information.
| 
| If this is allowed to happen, it will cause two problems which,
| together, add up to a catastrophe.
| 
| First, secret software vulnerability information will be available to
| the highest bidder, and to nobody else.  For reasons explained later,
| I think the highest bidders will generally be organized crime
| syndicates, although that will not be obvious to the sellers.
| 
| Second, finding software vulnerabilities and keeping them secret will
| become lucrative for many more talented people.  The result will be
| --- just as in the "responsible disclosure" days --- that the good
| guys will remain vulnerable for months and years, while the majority
| of current vulnerabilities are kept secret.
| 
| I've heard it argued that the highest bidders will generally be the
| vendors of the vulnerable software, but I don't think that's
| plausible.  If someone can steal $20 000 because a software bug lets
| them, the software vendor is never held liable; often, in fact, the
| people who administer the software aren't liable, either --- when
| credit card data are stolen from an e-commerce site, for example.
| Knowing about a vulnerability before anyone else might save a web-site
| administrator some time, and it might save the software vendor some
| negative PR, but it can net the thief thousands of dollars.
| 
| I think the highest bidders will be those for whom early vulnerability
| information is most lucrative --- the thieves who can use it to
| execute the largest heists without getting caught.  Inevitably, that
| means organized crime syndicates, although the particular gangs who
| are good at networked theft may not yet exist.
| 
| There might be the occasional case where a market leader, such as
| Microsoft, could make more money by giving their competitors bad PR
| than a gang could make by theft.  Think of a remote-root hole in
| Samba, for example.
| 
| Right now, people who know how to find security exploits are either
| motivated by personal interest in the subject, motivated by the public
| interest, motivated by a desire for individual recognition, or
| personally know criminals that benefit from their exploits.  Creating
| a marketplace in secret vulnerability information would vastly
| increase the availability of that information to the people who can
| afford to pay the most for it: spies, terrorists, and organized crime.
| 
| Let's not let that happen.
| 
| 
| 
| 
| This is the original iDEFENSE announcement:
| 
| From: Sunil James [mailto:SJames@iDefense.com]
| Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:32 PM
| Subject: Introducing iDEFENSE's Vulnerability Contributor Program
| 
| 
| Greetings,
| 
| iDEFENSE is pleased to announce the official launch of its Vulnerability
| Contributor Program (VCP). The VCP pays contributors for the advance
| notification of vulnerabilities, exploit code and malicious code.
| 
| iDEFENSE hopes you might consider contributing to the VCP. The following
| provides answers to some basic questions about the program:
| 
| Q. How will it work?
| A. iDEFENSE understands the majority of security researchers do not publish
| security research for compensation; rather, it could be for any of a number
| of motivations, including the following:
| 
|          * Pure love of security research
|          * The desire to protect against harm to targeted networks
|          * The desire to urge vendors to fix their products
|          * The publicity that often accompanies disclosure
| 
| The VCP is for those who want to have their research made public to the
| Internet community, but who would also like to be paid for doing the
| work.The compensation will depend, among other things, on the following
| items:
| 
|          * The kind of information being shared (i.e. vulnerability or exploit)
|          * The amount of detail and analysis provided
|          * The potential severity level for the information shared
|          * The types of applications, operating systems, and other
|            software and hardware potentially affected
|          * Verification by iDEFENSE Labs
|          * The level of exclusivity, if any, for data granted to iDEFENSE
| 
| Q. Who should contribute to the VCP?
| A. The VCP is open to any individual, security research group or other
| entity.
| 
| Q. Why are you launching this program?
| A. Timeliness remains a key aspect in security intelligence. Contributions
| to some lists take time before publication to the public at large. More
| often, many of these services charge clients for access without paying the
| original contributor. Under the iDEFENSE program, the contributor is
| compensated, iDEFENSE Labs verifies the issue, and iDEFENSE clients and the
| public at large are warned in a timely manner.
| 
| Q. Who gets the credit?
| A. The contributor is always credited for discovering the vulnerability or
| exploit information.
| 
| Q. When can I contribute?
| The VCP is active. You are welcome to begin contributing today.
| 
| To learn more, go to http://www.idefense.com/contributor.html. If you have
| questions or would like to sign up as a contributor to the VCP, please
| contact us at contributor@idefense.com.
| 
| Regards,
| 
| Sunil James
| Technical Analyst
| iDEFENSE
| 
| "iDEFENSE is a global security intelligence company that proactively
| monitors sources throughout the world -- from technical vulnerabilities and
| hacker profiling to the global spread of viruses and other malicious code.
| The iALERT security intelligence service provides decision-makers, frontline
| security professionals and network administrators with timely access to
| actionable intelligence and decision support on cyber-related threats.
| iDEFENSE Labs is the research wing that verifies vulnerabilities, examines
| the behavior of exploits and other malicious code and discovers new
| software/hardware weaknesses in a controlled lab environment."
| 
| http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
| 

-- 
"It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once."
					               -Hume


http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork

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From: Gregory Alan Bolcer 
Subject: buffer overflows
To: FoRK 
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Didn't we just have a discussion on FoRK how hard
it is nowadays to write something that's not
buffer overflow protected? 

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2121250,00.html



Location: http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2121250,00.html 

IM client vulnerable to attack 
IM client vulnerable to attack 

James Pearce, ZDNet Australia  

Users of messenger client Trillian are vulnerable to attack, according to
information security analyst John Hennessy.

Hennessy has published a proof-of-concept showing the latest version of
Trillian, v0.73, is vulnerable to a buffer-overflow attack that will
allow individuals with malicious intent to run any program on the
computer.

Trillion is a piece of software that allows you to connect to ICQ, AOL
Instant Messenger, MSN Messenger, Yahoo! Messenger and IRC with a single
interface, despite some companies actively avoiding messenger
interoperability.

According to Jason Ross, senior analyst at amr interactive, in June 2002
there were 28,000 home users of Trillian in Australia, about 0.4 percent
of the Internet population, and 55,000 people using it at work, about 1.8
percent of the Internet population.

David Banes, regional manager of Symantec security response, told ZDNet
Australia the code appeared to be valid.

"With these sort of things you have to find some process that would
accept a connection, then throw loads of random data at it and get it to
crash," he said. "Once it's crashed, you can try to find a way to exploit
it."

He said the proof-of-concept that was published is designed to run on
Notepad, but could be easily modified to run any program on the system.
He said the problem was easy to fix by "writing protective code around
that particular piece to more closely validate the data around that
piece."

"Because people are pushed for productivity you tend to leave out the
checks and balances you should put in, which is why we have all these
buffer overflows and exploits out there now," said Banes.

Cerulean Studios, creator of Trillian, was contacted for comment but had
not responded by the time of publication.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

For all security-related news, including updates on the latest viruses,
hacking exploits and patches, check out ZDNet UK's Security News Section.

Have your say instantly, and see what others have said. Go to the
Security forum.

Let the editors know what you think in the Mailroom.

Copyright � 2002 CNET Networks, Inc. All Rights Reserved. 
ZDNET is a registered service mark of CNET Networks, Inc. ZDNET Logo is a service mark of CNET NETWORKS,
Inc.
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To: fork@example.com
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There's been well documented articles, studies of the
French tax laws, corporate governance, and financial
oversight that 1) dont' easily allow for ISOs, the root
of almost all entrepreneurialship, and 2) the easy flow
of capital to new ventures.  It was an extremely large
issue, even debated widely in France.

Greg

Chuck Murcko wrote:

> According to my son, it was actually Homer Simpson, who claimed the 
> French had no word for victory.
> 
> Chuck
> 
> On Thursday, August 22, 2002, at 01:58 PM, Robert Harley wrote:
> 
>> An apparent quote from Dubya, from the Times (sent to me by my Dad):
>>
>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-43-351083,00.html
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>
>> TONY BLAIR's special relationship with George W. Bush is under
>> considerable strain. Not only do the two disagree on Yassir Arafat's
>> tenure as leader of the Palestinian Authority, but Blair has started
>> telling disparaging anecdotes about the President.
>>
>> Baroness Williams of Crosby recalled a story told to her by 'my good
>> friend Tony Blair' recently in Brighton. Blair, Bush and Jacques
>> Chirac were discussing economics and, in particular, the decline of
>> the French economy. 'The problem with the French,' Bush confided in
>> Blair, 'is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur.'
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>
>>
>> R
>> http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
>>
> 
> http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork
> 



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Doom 3 will be based on a peer to peer architecture says
CmdrTaco quoting Ant quoting Carmack.  

Greg

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/08/25/1310220

DOOM 3 will use P2P System?

           Posted by CmdrTaco on Sunday August
           25, @09:19AM
           from the
           i'll-believe-it-when-I'm-fragged-on-it
           dept.
           Ant writes "From Page 6 of FiringSquad's
           QuakeCon 2002 Postmortem article: John Carmack said
           something at the end of the Q&A about how the
           multiplayer will be only four players? Tim: After 2 hours of
           talking up at the podium, sometimes you leave a few details
           out. Doom 3 multiplayer will be fully scalable. It will be a
           peer to peer system. We haven't started working on it yet.
           Tell everyone not to panic - it will be fine. John just forgot
           to mention it'll be scalable past four players. It's hard to
           give a hard number because we haven't started working on
           it yet. Right now we're focused on making Doom 3 a
           kickass, over the top single player game."
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I finally let go of my Irix Magic desktop and window manager
and evaluated several other window managers. Having lost my 10 years
of customization with my X10 and then X11 desktop at one point
at UCI, I promised myself that I'd never get attached to
another WM.  I limped along in the default Gnome desktop, I
had a few unsuccessful stabs at the Solaris open view 
desktop, but nothing really stuck.   Because of this along
with SGI's love of pre-configured, pre-compiled freeware[1],
I never really made the jump from Irix to Linux either.  

After installing the enlightenment WM, I have to say, I am
really enlightened.  It's definitely a far cry from the no frills
first look from previous versions.  It's only on version 0.17,[2]
but it's a careful balance between simplicity, performance,
(fun) features, applications, and ease of customization.  The
number of themes they have on freshmeat is amazing. [3] After
less than an hour or two of "nesting" I already have almost
all my menus and controls setup just the way I want. 

I definitely recommend this to any Irix desktop holdouts.  It's
a great way to refresh your machine SGI without having to bite the
bullet and rebuild it as a Linux machine. 

Greg



[1] http://freeware.sgi.com/
[2] http://www.enlightenment.org/
[3] http://themes.freshmeat.net/browse/60/?topic_id=60
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From: Gregory Alan Bolcer 
Subject: UCI Creative Writing
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More articles that support my fantasy that Irvine is the
center of the universe.  We've got the corner on electric
cars, fuel cells, two types of Nobel winning physics,
outside the box computer science, and lot of creative writers.

UCI's creative writing department has been in the 
news a lot over the course of the last decade.  Some
quotes from the article[1]:

   "In 1992, Newsweek called UCI's fiction writing workshop
    'the hottest writing program in the country.' Now it's
    exponentially hotter, thanks only in part to Sebold's daring
    and uncannily timely novel. 

The novel they are talking about is Alice Sebold's "The
Lovely Bones" which is on the way to the top of the 
NY Times best-sellers list.  My uncle used to tease me
about UCI (being a USC graduate from '54) that nobody
knew who UC Irvine was just two states over.  In fact,
I used to refer to UCI as one of the lesser known UC
schools, and when I went off to college in 1985, my
relatives told everyone I was off to Cal State Irvine. 
I took a class as an undergrad by one of the department's 
faculty called "the art of writing fiction".   If there
was ever any two classes that helped contributed to writing
my dissertation, it was that one which taught me how to
get the writing flowing and my high school typing class
which taught me how to type really fast.  

One of the advantages they cite in the article is that they
seem to take a chance on the "not-so-sure" bet, but according
to the article, the number of UCI graduates that have gone on
to write best sellers and the handful that feed the film industry
is creating a viscious cycle that lures more talent which
creates the right writing ecosystem, which churns out more
success stories which lures more talent.  

Greg


[1] http://www.ocregister.com/sitearchives/2002/8/25/news/uci00825cci1.shtml
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This message was sent to you from http://www.idg.net

Geege would like you to read the story below:

http://www.idg.net/gomail.cgi?id=940026

Title:
A first look at the 2.8-GHz Pentium 4

Summary:
Latest Rambus memory plus fast bus appear to give Intel's newest P4 the jolt it needs.

Geege attached the following message:
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ha ha ha harley.  rambus earns it.
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7132


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0387.38b98a83546245da45d8aeb3ff4b1098.eml000066400000000000000000000072571444326627400311530ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Aug 26 22:49:05 2002
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Subject: Re: The Curse of India's Socialism
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On Tue, 2002-08-20 at 15:01, Ian Andrew Bell wrote:
> 
> Yet, despite all of this intense regulation and paper pushing, as 
> well as regulatory scrutiny by the FTC, SEC, and IRS, the 
> executives of Telecom Companies have managed to bilk the investment 
> community for what looks to be tens of billions of dollars.  


This is a good thing.  Getting hammered for stupid investments is likely
to result in smarter investments in the future.  Nobody is supposed to
win all the time, particularly not people who don't do due diligence. 
"A fool and his money are soon parted" and all that.  It isn't the job
of the FTC/SEC/IRS/etc to make sure you invest your money wisely (and I
have grave doubts that they could even if it was their job). 


> They 
> finished their routine with the a quadruple lutz -- laying off 
> hundreds of thousands of workers when it all came crashing down.


So what?  Nobody is guaranteed employment.  Laying people off is not a
crime nor is it immoral.  Companies don't exist to provide employment,
nor should they.  The closest we have to such a thing in the US is a
Government Job, and look at the quality THAT breeds.

 
> So.. tell me again.. how are we better off?


Perhaps it is just a matter of personal preference, but I'd rather not
live in a "feed lot" society, thank-you-very-much.


-James Rogers
 jamesr@best.com



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0388.c91d0f2ec4ba6d7647a48ebe7cf2f736.eml000066400000000000000000000074771444326627400314560ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Aug 26 22:59:22 2002
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On Sat, 2002-08-24 at 08:04, Gregory Alan Bolcer wrote:
> There's been well documented articles, studies of the
> French tax laws, corporate governance, and financial
> oversight that 1) dont' easily allow for ISOs, the root
> of almost all entrepreneurialship, and 2) the easy flow
> of capital to new ventures.  It was an extremely large
> issue, even debated widely in France.


It is actually a lot worse than this.  What it boils down to is that
only the privileged class is really allowed to start a serious company. 
What I found fascinating is that the old French aristocracy effectively
still exists (literally the same families), but they now hold top
executive and management positions in the major French firms and the
government, positions which are only passed on to other blue bloods. Not
officially of course, but as a strict matter of practice.  And the laws
and legal structures make sure that this system stays firmly in place. 
Even for a young French blue blood, strict age hierarchies keep them
from branching out into a new venture in their own country (though many
can leverage this to start companies in OTHER countries).  I know about
the French system first-hand and the executives are quite candid about
it (at least to Yanks like me who are working with them), but I suspect
this may hold true for other European countries as well.  

After all those "revolutions", France is still nothing more than a
thinly veiled old-school aristocracy, with all the trappings.

-James Rogers
 jamesr@best.com



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0389.1fe03acd5f135ac67ed7a7f35c4b3347.eml000066400000000000000000000057401444326627400313470ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Aug 27 00:33:01 2002
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Jim Whitehead wrote:
> So, after shutting off the water and mopping up, I was left to ponder what
> are the odds of having mechanical failure of a large rectangular porcelain
> bowl, in the absence of any visible stressors (like someone striking it with
> a sledgehammer)? We hadn't done anything unusual to the toilet in the recent

All it takes is an overtorqued nut (e.g. at the water intake entrance)
to stress the porcelain, and you've got a time bomb waiting to go off.
Of course, if you're lucky, you'll overtorque it enough that the tank
will break right away, while you still have the water intake shut off.

- Joe



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0390.d1ecb44eef90f33245ee0835d94e80ad.eml000066400000000000000000000042461444326627400313470ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Aug 27 00:53:25 2002
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John Hall:
>Ran across a site which claimed to explain the original meaning of the
>Ten Commandments.  It seems some of those meanings have evolved a bit, too.

You mean that "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's ass" used to be
about donkeys???  Inconceivable!!!

R

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0391.e1f15b5f5a6dbbb8cde6571055be3127.eml000066400000000000000000000062631444326627400313370ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Aug 27 02:14:54 2002
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On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Joseph S. Barrera III wrote:

> Adam L. Beberg wrote:
> > Fair use needs to be clarified a bit
>
> That's an understatement!!!

Yes, it is :(

> > How else do i ever have hope of finding a job working for someone
> > that makes things people are supposed to ... *drumroll* pay for.
>
> Well, you could damn well get a fucking better attitude. I practically
> handed you a job the other week and you pissed all over me. I'm done
> helping you. You have joined a very exclusive club that up to now has
> only had my sister as a member.

Forwarding me stuff from a list is hardly handing me a job. I tracked them
down, they dont exist anymore, like 99% of the things I track down the req's
are pulled or there is a freeze.

The real problem is you cant even train for jobs now, since they _demand_
7-10 years at a job paid to do the wierd collection of skills they want.

But I'll get lucky eventually and someone I know will be a hiring manager.

- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0392.2763fc795021223f9cfc870a5ce0bc25.eml000066400000000000000000000050461444326627400311220ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Aug 27 02:35:15 2002
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Adam L. Beberg wrote:
 > Forwarding me stuff from a list is hardly handing me a job.

I was talking about the open reqs at Kana (the company I work for).
Oh, but programming in Java is beneath you.

- Joe



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0393.0b4def24fd1835de40d83f2a8e43bd7d.eml000066400000000000000000000052631444326627400314260ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Aug 27 03:46:39 2002
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On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Geege wrote:

> Latest Rambus memory plus fast bus appear to give Intel's newest P4 the jolt it needs.

Well, Athlon FSB 333 is almost there. And I'm really looking forward to 
the Hammer series.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0394.1c86a541cac55ed69e47b32b325352cb.eml000066400000000000000000000060621444326627400311750ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Aug 27 04:17:15 2002
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On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, Geege wrote:

> Summary:
> Latest Rambus memory plus fast bus appear to give Intel's newest P4 the
> jolt it needs.
>
> Geege attached the following message:
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> ha ha ha harley.  rambus earns it.
> ------------------------------------------------------------

"Expect a 3 percent to 5 percent boost with PC1066"

5% faster for only 4 times [pricewatch at 7:55PM - 93 vs 379] the cost.

Gimme gimme gimme! And I better get the full 5% speedup.

And gime me that 20% faster GeForce 4600 at twice the cost of the 4200 too.

Seriously, who falls for this scam?

P.S. finished the PS2 port, it benchmarks at fp:1 int:40. a celeron 525
benches at fp:460 int:400... If it's not a polygon fill the thing is
useless. There will be no beowolf cluster of these. It is 3x faster then
the iPaq tho at 1/13 :)

- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0395.9974c2f067b24a73a2cd3f9d1af21e57.eml000066400000000000000000000057131444326627400312140ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Aug 27 05:18:20 2002
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What are you trying to sell???? What is the Value???

Example...Does Pratchett sell paper bound by glue or does he sell stories?



Question...When I buy a book have I purchased the story? When I sell the
book does any of that revenue go to mr Pratchett?

What if I read the book and  give it to someone, who then reads it
and gives it  to someone who then reads it and gives it to
someones....(bookcrossing.com though with  more succesfull passings). Does
each reader send Mr Pratchett money?

Have Used Bookstores, Recorstores etc destroyed the system of book/record
economy?

AS to the resident sourpuss, in germany bitter may be better but here its
just plain stinkin thinkin.


-tom




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0396.0922332b5ca3f934481ab4c275a79001.eml000066400000000000000000000071241444326627400306670ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Aug 27 06:29:37 2002
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From: Eirikur Hallgrimsson 
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Subject: Gecko adhesion finally sussed.
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(Via Robot Wisdom)   Maybe you UC folk know these people?

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-08/lcc-sph082202.php

Working at Lewis & Clark College, the University of California at Berkeley, 
the University of California at Santa Barbara, and Stanford University, 
the interdisciplinary team:

    * confirmed speculation that the gecko's amazing climbing ability 
depends on weak molecular attractive forces called van der Waals forces,

    * rejected a competing model based on the adhesion chemistry of water 
molecules, and

* discovered that the gecko's adhesive depends on geometry, not surface 
chemistry. In other words, the size and shape of the tips of gecko foot 
hairs--not what they are made of--determine the gecko's stickiness.

To verify its experimental and theoretical results, the gecko group then 
used its new data to fabricate prototype synthetic foot-hair tips from two 
different materials.

"Both artificial setal tips stuck as predicted," notes Autumn, assistant 
professor of biology at Lewis & Clark College in Portland, Ore. "Our 
initial prototypes open the door to manufacturing the first biologically 
inspired dry, adhesive microstructures, which can have widespread 
applications." 

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0397.bdea17c7f90068a763d191914770f6d6.eml000066400000000000000000000210101444326627400310530ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Aug 27 10:35:49 2002
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Subject: "A billion here, a billion there..."
From: Rohit Khare 
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> Bottom line: the late Senate Minority Leader certainly would have 
> endorsed the meaning behind the phrase, but it is questionable that he 
> ever coined it.

An interesting link courtesy of the Harrow Report: there's no written 
evidence so far that Senator Everett Dirksen is the source of the 
infamous quote attributed to him. It's kind of astounding that there is 
enough general social consensus (25% of all queries makes it a *very* 
FAQ) and "eyewitness" reporting without a single written source. What 
the essay below doesn't seem to answer, though, is what the earliest 
attributed quote in print by any other writer is. I'd naturally be much 
more skeptical if the "quote" emerged after his death... RK

===============================================================
http://www.dirksencenter.org/featuresBillionHere.htm

"A billion here, a billion there . . ."

Did Dirksen ever say, " A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon 
you're talking real money"? (or anything very close to that?)

Perhaps not. Based on an exhaustive search of the paper and audio 
records of The Dirksen Congressional Center, staffers there have found 
no evidence that Dirksen ever uttered the phrase popularly attributed to 
him.

Archivists undertook the search after studying research statistics 
showing that more than 25 percent of inquiries have to do with the quote 
or its variations.

Here is what they examined: all of the existing audio tapes of the famed 
"Ev and Charlie" and "Ev and Jerry" shows, all newspapers clippings in 
the Dirksen Papers, about 12,500 pages of Dirksen's own speech notes, 
transcripts of his speeches and media appearances, transcripts of 
Republican leadership press conferences, and Dirksen's statements on the 
Senate floor as documented in the Congressional Record.

Although Dirksen rarely prepared the text of a speech, preferring to 
rely on notes, he did employ brief phrases to remind him of a particular 
turn of phrase. For example, in referring to the public debt or 
excessive government spending, Dirksen would jot the word "pothole" to 
remind him to tell the following story, on this occasion in reference to 
the debt ceiling:


"As I think of this bill, and the fact that the more progress we make 
the deeper we go into the hole, I am reminded of a group of men who were 
working on a street. They had dug quite a number of holes. When they got 
through, they failed to puddle or tamp the earth when it was returned to 
the hole, and they had a nice little mound, which was quite a traffic 
hazard.

"Not knowing what to do with it, they sat down on the curb and had a 
conference. After a while, one of the fellows snapped his fingers and 
said, �I have it. I know how we will get rid of that overriding earth 
and remove the hazard. We will just dig the hole deeper.'" 
[Congressional Record, June 16, 1965, p. 13884].


On the same occasion, Dirksen relied on yet another "spending" story, 
one he labeled "cat in the well":


"One time in the House of Representatives [a colleague] told me a story 
about a proposition that a teacher put to a boy. He said, �Johnny, a cat 
fell in a well 100 feet deep. Suppose that cat climbed up 1 foot and 
then fell back 2 feet. How long would it take the cat to get out of the 
well?'

"Johnny worked assiduously with his slate and slate pencil for quite a 
while, and then when the teacher came down and said, �How are you 
getting along?' Johnny said, �Teacher, if you give me another slate and 
a couple of slate pencils, I am pretty sure that in the next 30 minutes 
I can land that cat in hell.'

"If some people get any cheer our of a $328 billion debt ceiling, I do 
not find much to cheer about concerning it." [Congressional Record, June 
16, 1965, p. 13884].


But there are no such reminders for the "A billion here, a billion 
there . . . " tag line as there surely should have been given Dirksen's 
note-making tendencies. He spoke often and passionately about the debt 
ceiling, federal spending, and the growth of government. Yet there is no 
authoritative reference to the "billion" phrase.

The chief evidence in support of Dirksen making the statement comes from 
people who claim to have heard him. The Library of Congress, for 
example, cites someone's personal observation on the campaign trail as 
evidence. The Dirksen Center has received calls from people who heard 
Dirksen say those words, some even providing the date of the event. But 
cross-checking that information with the records has, so far, turned up 
nothing in the way of confirmation.

The closest documented statement came at a joint Senate-House Republican 
leadership press conference on March 8, 1962, when Dirksen said, "The 
favorite sum of money is $1 billion � a billion a year for a fatter 
federal payroll, a billion here, a billion there." [EMD Papers, 
Republican Congressional Leadership File, f. 25] But the "and pretty 
soon you're talking real money" is missing.

In another close call, the New York Times, January 23, 1961, quoted 
Dirksen: "Look at education � two-and-one-half billion � a billion for 
this, a billion for that, a billion for something else. Three to five 
billion for public works. You haven't got any budget balance left. 
You'll be deeply in the red." [Cited in Byron Hulsey's "Everett Dirksen 
and the Modern Presidents," Ph.D. dissertation (May 1998, University of 
Texas, p. 226]

Of course, the Dirksen Papers do not document completely the late 
Senator's comments. For example, The Center that bears his name does not 
have his testimony before committees. Their collection of Congressional 
Records ends in 1965, omitting the last four years of Dirksen's life and 
career � he might have employed the phrase only late, although witnesses 
claim he said it throughout his career. Dirksen's campaign speeches 
tended not to produce transcripts, only sketchy notes or abbreviated 
newspaper accounts. Dirksen also held center stage before the video age, 
meaning that many remarks, particularly those in campaigns, escaped 
capture.

Bottom line: the late Senate Minority Leader certainly would have 
endorsed the meaning behind the phrase, but it is questionable that he 
ever coined it.

�

�
---
My permanent email address is khare@alumni.caltech.edu


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0398.d44804f613ef8d8ddd5ae7aa8329c1b0.eml000066400000000000000000000070131444326627400313510ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Aug 27 11:06:58 2002
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Subject: Re: The MIME information you requested (last changed 3154 Feb 14)
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     of
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UW Email Robot said:

> What is MIME?

I know what MIME is godammit ;)

> Since MIME is only a few years old, ...

a *few*?  Time to update pine-robot-blurb.txt on
docserver.cac.washington.edu, I think.

Has anyone figured out what's up with this?  Does someone out there think
that FoRK needs some MIME tutoring?

--j.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0399.20be4fa82cc4b6342cf49fc6606c492e.eml000066400000000000000000000060261444326627400312730ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Aug 27 17:34:36 2002
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Justin Mason writes:
> Has anyone figured out what's up with this?  Does someone out there
> think that FoRK needs some MIME tutoring?

I was puzzled at first, but I think I understand what happened.

First, I approved the post because it didn't appear to be spam, even
though it wasn't from a member.  I thought it was odd that someone
wanted to send the MIME blurb to the list, but it was not really that
different from causing the New York Times web site to send a story to
the list.  (Except that the bits here are antediluvian, but old bits are
a problem to be solved by social opporobrium, not technical constraints.)

But I think what actually happened is that some idiot got infected by
Klez and had both FoRK and the pine-robot autoresponder address in their
mailbox or addressbook, so Klez forged mail from fork@xent.com to the
autoresponder, which responded.  To FoRK.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0400.bc26e5bca8b09db7b496d47715baacad.eml000066400000000000000000000077771444326627400315610ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Aug 28 14:47:26 2002
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From: "Bill Kearney" 
To: 
References: <20020828132525.19031.23950.Mailman@lair.xent.com>
Subject: Re: DataPower announces XML-in-silicon
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> Now, to do this, we all know they have to be cracking the strong crypto used
> on all transaction in order to process them... So this has some preaty heavy
> implications, unless it's just BS.

Anybody buying a box like this is undoubtledly going to integrate it into their
crypto infrastructure.  What's the point of putting in a box like this if it's
not an active participant in your security framework?

> Or.... you could just not bloat it 20x to begin with. Nah! (that was the
> whole point of XML afterall, to sell more CPUs - much like Oracle's use of
> Java allows them to sell 3x more CPU licenses due to the performance hit)

Blah, blah, blah.  The marketing FUD gets compounded by the Beberg FUD, talk
about 20x bloat.

> Again, see above... they _are_ claiming to decode the crypto...

What gives you the impression that's what they're doing?  That's not what the
text says.  It's largely fluff anyway.

> > "Our XG3 execution core converts XML to machine code," said Kelly,
> Mmmmmmmmmmm, machine code, never a good idea ;)

Uhhh, fundamentally it's all machine code.  Kelly's comment seems more like
drivel from a clueless marketroid than anything of technical concern.

Having what appears to be a silicon XML router would be a cool thing.  Having
one integrated with your crypto environment would kick ass.  Let it
deserialize/decrypt/repackage the XML before handing it off to the app servers.
The question, of course, is does it work with actual applications in the field
without tremendously reworking them.  Somehow I doubt it...

-Bill Kearney

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0401.9ab0bcc81e70d6930acfefc2854a0172.eml000066400000000000000000000064451444326627400313240ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Aug 28 17:15:53 2002
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To: Owen Byrne 
Cc: fork@example.com
Subject: Re: Canadians
References: <3D6CA455.4010907@permafrost.net>
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
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>>>>> "O" == Owen Byrne  writes:

    O> From the local paper this morning.  "Canadians eat about seven
    O> times as many doughnuts per capita"... (as Americans) . D'oh!

If we had more variety of franchise food than the
Wendys/KFC/PizzaHut/TacoBell/TimHorton's monopoly (they are all Pepsi
under the hood, aren't they?), things might be different.  When a New
Yorker has biscotti, we have a timbit, when a Parisienne has a
croissant, we have a timbit ... because that's all we can buy.

The USA is a nation founded on creative free enterprise entrepreneurs;
Canada is a nation built on monopolies.

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy  TeleDynamics Communications Inc
 Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0402.a511fb74deca95f59d4eff5daa45a9b8.eml000066400000000000000000000060421444326627400315640ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Aug 28 17:25:50 2002
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Gary Lawrence Murphy:
>If we had more variety of franchise food than
>the Wendys/KFC/PizzaHut/TacoBell/TimHorton's monopoly .. The USA is a 
>nation founded on creative free enterprise entrepreneurs; Canada
>is a nation built on monopolies.

Things aren't all that bad. I remember Vancouver
as having a broad variety of good, local eateries.
And Toronto as having a variety of good, local
strip joints. ;-) I never ate a doughnut in
Canada, so I cannot vouch for their quality. I
could live in either of these cities quite happily,
but Carolyn doesn't like cold weather.

Personally, I almost never eat at a franchise
restaurant. Usually you can find better fare or
cheaper fare (and often both!) at a local
restaurant.



_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0403.1e5eeaca6a82f4eeccc65c179efe2c7c.eml000066400000000000000000000043631444326627400317240ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Aug 28 17:56:47 2002
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JoeBar wrote:
>C is more reliable than Java??

Depends who writes it.  One guy will write a bug every 5 lines,
another every 5000 lines.  Put them both on a project and that will
average out to a bug every 4.995 lines.
(Irrespective of language.  Pick the one
that best suits what you're trying to do.)

R

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0404.eceb4a64a9ef4c1d738782efde23c09b.eml000066400000000000000000000071561444326627400315130ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Aug 28 18:07:13 2002
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>>>>> "R" == Russell Turpin  writes:

    R> Things aren't all that bad. I remember Vancouver as having a
    R> broad variety of good, local eateries.  And Toronto as having a
    R> variety of good, local strip joints. ;-) 

I haven't been to Van in years, but I do know that in Toronto, outside
of the small deeply ethnic neighbourhoods, if you stray more than 50
feet from Wellesley and Jarvis or Queen and Spadina, you're in
doughnutland; there's far more like the eateries in the Eaton Centre
than there are quaint cafes like McCaul north of Dundas, and the rare
little eateries are not brimming with lunchtime traffic (you can still
find a seat at noon at Village by the Grange)

When most of Toronto does not live in those neighbourhoods but instead
lives in Scarborough, Malton, Mississauga and Markham (franchisevilles), you
will quickly see that one or two trendy strips does not save an entire
nation.


-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy  TeleDynamics Communications Inc
 Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0405.ef8e0986c113ddf12faa7c1a05ace625.eml000066400000000000000000000061061444326627400314040ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Aug 28 18:07:15 2002
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Cc: fork@example.com
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References: <20020828164409.8826AC44D@argote.ch>
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>>>>> "R" == Robert Harley  writes:

    R> Depends who writes it.  One guy will write a bug every 5 lines,
    R> another every 5000 lines.  Put them both on a project and that
    R> will average out to a bug every 4.995 lines.  

And a Java program, due to the extensive class libraries, will weigh
in at 10% the number of lines of the equivalent C program.  QED.

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy  TeleDynamics Communications Inc
 Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0406.9f6672caace4903c3d6180f2e95a3153.eml000066400000000000000000000045131444326627400311200ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Aug 28 18:07:17 2002
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Mike Masnick wrote:
>Why is it that people don't understand that giving stuff away is a 
>perfectly acceptable tactic in capitalist businesses?  In many places, it's 
>called "advertising": "buy one, get one free"

I'll just take the free one, OK?

No?

Oh, so actually it's not free at all; you're just bundling, with a unit
price half of what's advertised.

How about some truth in that advertising?

R

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0407.3436b9e83d36200b38a97b7fa179b6aa.eml000066400000000000000000000050511444326627400311200ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Aug 28 18:17:25 2002
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Subject: Re: Java is for kiddies
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GLM wrote:
>And a Java program, due to the extensive class libraries, will weigh
>in at 10% the number of lines of the equivalent C program.  QED.

Quod erat not demonstrandum at all.

There are massive amounts of libraries for C, Fortran and so on.
To pick an obvious example., if you want to do linear algebra, then
Java isn't a serious candidate at all.

Furthermore, plenty of bugs occur in the libraries too, at a lower
rate due to more users having been bitten by them, but they are much
harder for you to fix than in your own code.

Why do so many people outside of Sun's marketing department consider
Java to be "Write Once, Debug Everywhere" ?

R

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0408.3e476c9b90944c3b5fccdb2055bce897.eml000066400000000000000000000074701444326627400313030ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Aug 28 18:28:06 2002
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Subject: Re: Java is for kiddies
From: James Rogers 
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On Tue, 2002-08-27 at 08:58, Joseph S. Barrera III wrote:
>
> C is more reliable than Java??


Both are reliable.  "Reliability" is more a function of the software
engineer.  I've written complicated mission-critical server software in
Java that will run without a hiccup as long as the Unix box it is
sitting on is running.  Same with C.  For processes that are running
months at a time, and in my case constantly touching databases and doing
lots of low-level network stuff, reliability is obtained by making sure
every conceivable problem (and problems you didn't conceive of) recovers
to a clean/safe process state so that things keep running i.e. it is a
design/programming issue.

That said, we usually prototype serious systems in Java and then
re-implement them in C if we have time.  Java doesn't scale well as a
language for server apps, though not for the reasons usually offered. 
The problem is that for high-end server apps, you really need fairly
detailed and low-level control of system resources to get around
bottlenecks that show up relatively quickly in languages that don't give
you access to it.  You can squeeze several times the performance out of
a C server program than a Java one simply by being able to finely tune
(or more frequently, bypass) the system resource management. 
Nonetheless, this is not a significant factor for most applications you
could conceivably develop in either language, as most aren't limited by
raw performance scalability.


-James Rogers
 jamesr@best.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0409.7fdf4f0f8aad0b0ad4654b10afae9225.eml000066400000000000000000000100641444326627400314600ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Aug 28 18:38:58 2002
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From: "Jim Whitehead" 
To: "FoRK" 
Subject: RE: Gecko adhesion finally sussed.
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Great, this is half of what I'd need to become Spider Man! Now all I need to
figure out is how to do that spider web shooting thing.

- Jim

> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of
> Eirikur Hallgrimsson
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 10:24 PM
> To: FoRK
> Subject: Gecko adhesion finally sussed.
>
>
> (Via Robot Wisdom)   Maybe you UC folk know these people?
>
> http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-08/lcc-sph082202.php
>
> Working at Lewis & Clark College, the University of California at
> Berkeley,
> the University of California at Santa Barbara, and Stanford University,
> the interdisciplinary team:
>
>     * confirmed speculation that the gecko's amazing climbing ability
> depends on weak molecular attractive forces called van der Waals forces,
>
>     * rejected a competing model based on the adhesion chemistry of water
> molecules, and
>
> * discovered that the gecko's adhesive depends on geometry, not surface
> chemistry. In other words, the size and shape of the tips of gecko foot
> hairs--not what they are made of--determine the gecko's stickiness.
>
> To verify its experimental and theoretical results, the gecko group then
> used its new data to fabricate prototype synthetic foot-hair tips
> from two
> different materials.
>
> "Both artificial setal tips stuck as predicted," notes Autumn, assistant
> professor of biology at Lewis & Clark College in Portland, Ore. "Our
> initial prototypes open the door to manufacturing the first biologically
> inspired dry, adhesive microstructures, which can have widespread
> applications."


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0410.a5e658e20b48409116fd339f5a8473f7.eml000066400000000000000000000073621444326627400307760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Aug 28 18:49:16 2002
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On Wed, 2002-08-28 at 09:58, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:
> 
> And a Java program, due to the extensive class libraries, will weigh
> in at 10% the number of lines of the equivalent C program.  QED.


My typical Java-to-C conversion doesn't increase the lines of code by
more than 20%, and a fair portion of that is the implementation of
additional features that drove us to do the conversion in the first
place.  Some things are substantially more succinct when written in C
than in Java.  C and most other mature languages have an endless
collection of libraries.  I personally don't use anything beyond the
core libraries of any language that much though.

On a tangent, I find libraries nearly useless for a great many things
due primarily to the fact that most of them are so general that a given
non-trivial API almost always has a context in which it will function in
a pathological manner.  Code reuse is wonderful and all that, but
libraries frequently make design trade-offs that won't work for me even
if they theoretically do exactly what I need.  Unfortunately, it isn't
particularly easy nor does it make a nice simple API to design a library
that really is optimizable to a wide range of design cases.  I've built
a small collection of flexible psuedo-polymorphic APIs over the years
that I tend to use, but it is a pretty ugly solution for code reuse when
you get right down to it.


-James Rogers
 jamesr@best.com



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From: "Jim Whitehead" 
To: "FoRK" 
Subject: Another low probability event
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So, a new family moved in down the street, with two kids, making us very
excited that there might be a child around the same age (20 months) as our
daughter Tatum. While we're talking to the family, we discover that their
daughter Kiara was born the same day as Tatum, within two hours, in the same
exact maternity ward. Both mothers were undoubtedly in labor at the same
time.

Wow.

- Jim


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At 10:34 AM -0700 on 8/28/02, Jim Whitehead wrote:


> Great, this is half of what I'd need to become Spider Man! Now all I need to
> figure out is how to do that spider web shooting thing.

...That and be able to stick yourself upside down on a 20 foot ceiling from
a standing jump...

I remember someone recently doing the calculations in kilocalories required
to be spiderman somewhere. Kind of like those flaming processor "analyses"
done a couple of years ago...

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0413.c4ecec1b9ca5e6bd1fd9bc7fa6c29b2d.eml000066400000000000000000000136611444326627400320000ustar00rootroot00000000000000Replied: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:24:44 +0100
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>>>>> "R" == Robert Harley  writes:

    R> GLM wrote:
    >> And a Java program, due to the extensive class libraries, will
    >> weigh in at 10% the number of lines of the equivalent C
    >> program.  QED.

    R> There are massive amounts of libraries for C, Fortran and so
    R> on.  To pick an obvious example., if you want to do linear
    R> algebra, then Java isn't a serious candidate at all.

If you want to do http, C gets pretty muddy (curl is about the best
choice I've found) but I grant you that: No language is the be-all and
end-all.

I envy some of those posting to this list.  I've been in business for
24 years and I haven't yet had the luxury of writing every line of
code for any project. We are always coerced by budgets and time to
maximize the amount of work done elsewhere.  

As much as I hate dealing with someone else's blackbox, as much as
I've spent sleepless nights second-guessing external libs, I've never
ever had the luxury to do otherwise. It must be wonderful to be
responsible for something you are actually responsible for, and I am
so sick of being blamed for other people's design mistakes.

Maybe there's an archive somewhere I need to know about, but I've been
using C since DrDobbs first published SmallC and yet I've never found
any decent LGPL libs cataloged in such a way that I can just type in
the task and get back an API.  Because of Javadoc, which is by no
means perfect, Java provides me the second best catalog of 3rd-party
libs, second only to Perl's CPAN -- Perl is one language I also really
hate with a passion, yet end up using the most for exactly this reason.

For example, take the recent CBC Olympics site: I needed to roll
together a telnet client with a tokenizer, perl-regex preprocessing a
stream to produce parseable XML, project that XML into relational
databases using only the DTD to generate the rdbms schema, and open an
XMLRPC interface to read and post items into the news stream.  Where
can I find C libs for those components?  

On the webserver, we then needed a multithreaded read-only http socket
which can spawn persistent data-caching servlets that periodically
refresh themselves over socket connections to the relational database,
presenting the retreived values through XSLT-defined transforms, and
again, where can I find such stuff for C ... or for any other langauge
but Java?  Wombat (servlet spec for Perl) was inviting, but it's not
ready for prime-time, and re-inventing that entire shopping list in C
is just not feasible for one programmer to do inside of 8 weeks.

When you need C libs, or even C++ libs, where's the best place to shop?
Where do you find standards-based portable RDBMS API? (ODBC?) How do
you evaluate these things without actually fetching every one and
trying it out?

In a perfect universe, I'd use Ocaml or even Ruby, but I don't see the
social infrastructure for either happening during my professional
lifetime.

    R> Why do so many people outside of Sun's marketing department
    R> consider Java to be "Write Once, Debug Everywhere" ?

A collegue at Cognos (Henk?) called C "the nearly-portable assembler"

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy  TeleDynamics Communications Inc
 Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0414.06408c603660212989180dd086b0f460.eml000066400000000000000000000050061444326627400304450ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Aug 29 11:03:57 2002
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First seen on Dave Winer's Scrpiting News (www.scripting.com) Details here:

http://www.digichapman.com/index.php?permalink=67

- Jim

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0415.6dfea45b8aef7d6ef6a462974d61ce3e.eml000066400000000000000000000052621444326627400315230ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Aug 29 11:04:02 2002
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From: Eirikur Hallgrimsson 
Organization: Electric Brain
To: FoRK 
Subject: "Holiday Season" 2002 begins
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It's official, the holidays are here.  I got HTML mail from one of the 
little catalogs I've been known to purchase from....basically the front 
page of their first holiday catalog. 

Must have been released simultaneously with mailing for a delivery target 
of just after Labor Day.

Ick.

Eirikur


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0416.6071df16fc9f7c45f65163f5b10a16d2.eml000066400000000000000000000057461444326627400311310ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Aug 29 11:04:02 2002
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From: "Jim Whitehead" 
To: "Gary Lawrence Murphy" 
Cc: 
Subject: RE: Java is for kiddies
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> For example, take the recent CBC Olympics site: I needed to roll
> together a telnet client with a tokenizer, perl-regex preprocessing a
> stream to produce parseable XML, project that XML into relational
> databases using only the DTD to generate the rdbms schema, and open an
> XMLRPC interface to read and post items into the news stream.  Where
> can I find C libs for those components?

You open sourced the new components you developed for this project, so the
next person who comes along won't have to reimplement them, right?

- Jim


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0417.74bf147587a49c58a67490c0211f7928.eml000066400000000000000000000063601444326627400306450ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Aug 29 11:04:08 2002
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We met a family in our parent-baby group with a son born a few minutes
before our daughter - not unlikely as all members were from the same
hospital. But, this family happened to have lived in the exact same
apartment unit a year before we had...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Whitehead" 
To: "FoRK" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 10:40 AM
Subject: Another low probability event


> So, a new family moved in down the street, with two kids, making us very
> excited that there might be a child around the same age (20 months) as our
> daughter Tatum. While we're talking to the family, we discover that their
> daughter Kiara was born the same day as Tatum, within two hours, in the
same
> exact maternity ward. Both mothers were undoubtedly in labor at the same
> time.
>
> Wow.
>
> - Jim
>

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0418.c0b6aa880f0653a8cef85a9bfb1af86c.eml000066400000000000000000000063541444326627400315100ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Aug 29 11:04:10 2002
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From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
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>>>>> "J" == Jim Whitehead  writes:

    J> You open sourced the new components you developed for this
    J> project, so the next person who comes along won't have to
    J> reimplement them, right?

No need: All those components already exist either in the Java
class libraries or from the various java jar collections.  Most
of the classes I used came from the Jakarta project and ApacheXML

But if it's any consolation, my threading of them all together into
a newswire server /is/ GPL and available on sourceforge.

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy  TeleDynamics Communications Inc
 Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0419.baeaada19ebce19874d17d5ef73ced0d.eml000066400000000000000000000046571444326627400317320ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Aug 29 11:04:11 2002
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Eirikur Hallgrimsson wrote:
> It's official, the holidays are here.

For which year, 2003 or 2004?

- Joe



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0420.be62f32c2be92df5f22deacf5c399407.eml000066400000000000000000000076061444326627400314250ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Aug 29 11:04:14 2002
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Gary's news service at teledyn.com has an article on Internet Saturation.

Let me ask you....If you were on a rock in the middle of the Atlantic, 
mostly in the dark for half the year, wouldn't *you* like a bit of 
internet distraction?   They've already done the obvious and fiber-ringed 
the island.

Eirikur

--------

Latest guestimate stats from Ireland's NUA show a flattening Internet 
population growth. It seems there's two kinds of people, those who will go 
online with the status quo, and those who won't: Canada levels out at 53%, 
the USA at 59% (since 2000!), Denmark flatlines at 60%, Norway at 54%, 
Sweden at 64%, and the UK at 55% ... only Iceland continues unfettered 
beyond 60%. Could this be evidence of a usability barrier? If so, it's a 
clear signal that there's as much fortune to be gained from a 
substantially new Internet interface than all that has been gained so far.
Latest guestimate stats from Ireland's NUA show a flattening Internet 
population growth. It seems there's two kinds of people, those who will go 
online with the status quo, and those who won't: Canada levels out at 53%, 
the USA at 59% (since 2000!), Denmark flatlines at 60%, Norway at 54%, 
Sweden at 64%, and the UK at 55% ... only Iceland continues unfettered 
beyond 60%. Could this be evidence of a usability barrier? If so, it's a 
clear signal that there's as much fortune to be gained from a 
substantially new Internet interface than all that has been gained so far.

http://www.nua.ie/surveys/how_many_online/


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0421.4df8b9eebae5cbf2d5213e2040d21c9e.eml000066400000000000000000000104051444326627400314570ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Aug 29 11:27:33 2002
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Gary Lawrence Murphy said:

> I envy some of those posting to this list.  I've been in business for
> 24 years and I haven't yet had the luxury of writing every line of
> code for any project. We are always coerced by budgets and time to
> maximize the amount of work done elsewhere.  

For consultancy, integration or open source work, sure, perl, python or
java with free use of external libs makes a lot of sense IMO.

I should note that normally when I've used C or C++ in the past, it's
dictated by the fact that I would be working on a commercial product,
written from the ground up, where the code you're generating is important
IP for the company; in this case, using a third-party lib often is not an
option, or would be a PITA licensing-wise.

Also, cutting out third-party dependencies can reduce the risk of "oops,
there goes the company that makes that library I depend on, now to shop
around for something vaguely similar, figure out what bugs it's got,
rewrite my code to use the new API, and hope for the best".

This can be a *very* big deal, for obvious reasons ;)    Open source
knockers should note that this is not a problem when using LGPL'd libs ;)

--j.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0422.cf8753c2ab03fedf1c9a2d8fb1c1578f.eml000066400000000000000000000071121444326627400314750ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Aug 29 11:37:49 2002
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Eirikur Hallgrimsson said:

> Let me ask you....If you were on a rock in the middle of the Atlantic, 
> mostly in the dark for half the year, wouldn't *you* like a bit of 
> internet distraction?   They've already done the obvious and fiber-ringed 
> the island.

BTW did they do the same as they did in Ireland, namely: spend millions
burying copious miles of dark fibre, then neglect to provide any way of
actually hooking it up to any ISPs? ;)

--j. (frustrated)

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0423.353c3de8f5c7114179771f9b44e70b9e.eml000066400000000000000000000102301444326627400310500ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Aug 29 16:12:04 2002
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--------------090602010909000705010009
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Geege wrote:

>This message was sent to you from http://www.idg.net
>
>Geege would like you to read the story below:
>
>http://www.idg.net/gomail.cgi?id=940026
>
>Title:
>A first look at the 2.8-GHz Pentium 4
>
>Summary:
>Latest Rambus memory plus fast bus appear to give Intel's newest P4 the jolt it needs.
>
>Geege attached the following message:
>------------------------------------------------------------
>ha ha ha harley.  rambus earns it.
>------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Stay on top of the world of Information Technology with your own
>FREE subscription to our specialized newsletters. Subscribe now
>at http://www.idg.net/subscribe
>
>
>7132
>
>  
>
The overclockers have given it another jolt, perhaps to potential sales 
(and maybe sales of liquid nitrogen):

via slashdot
Owen

http://www.muropaketti.com/artikkelit/cpu/nw2800/index3.phtml
*P�iv�m��r�:* 26.8.2002
*Artikkeli:* Intel Northwood 2,8GHz
*Tekij�:* Sampsa Kurri 




*English Summary*

When the Intel Pentium 4 2,8GHz CPU arrived to our testlab we ordered 10 
liters of Liquid Nitrogen (LN2 -196�C) and decided to run some tests in 
very low temperatures.

After some adjusting and testing we were able to run SiSoft Sandra CPU 
and Memory benchmarks and Pifast benchmark smoothly when the CPU was 
running at 3917MHz. We raised the FSB one more step and managed to run 
succesfully SuperPi benchmark while CPU was running at 3998MHz. The 
result was 39 seconds.

Test setup: P4 2,8GHz, Modified Asus P4T533-C, Samsung PC800 RDRAM, PNY 
GeForce 4 MX440 and Windows XP OS.

Check out the pictures.




--------------090602010909000705010009--


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0424.607e8523fa3516a6dc513c8a20682fc3.eml000066400000000000000000000077071444326627400310410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  2 13:13:38 2002
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From: "Adam L. Beberg" 
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On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Bill Stoddard wrote:

> >
> > "Red Hat Linux Advanced Server provides many high end features such as:
> > Support for Asynchronous I/O. Now read I/O no longer needs to stall your
> > application while waiting for completion."
>
> Can you provide a reference?  I could find it myself but I'm too lazy.

Well, i saw it on the Compaq Testdrive site, then had to seriously dig on
the redhat site... It's in one of their whitepapers...
http://www.redhat.com/pdf/as/as_rasm.pdf


> > Could it be? After 20 years without this feature UNIX finally
> > catches up to
> > Windows and has I/O that doesnt totally suck for nontrivial apps? No way!
>
> Do /dev/poll and FreeBSD's KQ event driven APIs count? IMHO, true async
> io as implemented by Windows 4.0 and beyond is pretty slick, but the
> programming model is substantially more complex than programming to an
> event API like /dev/poll. And true async does not buy much if the
> system call overhead is low (as it is with Linux).

I havent used the FBSD poll, as it's not portable, select and poll(still not
100%) are all that exist in the UNIX world. Redhat of course doesnt count as
portable either, but it's nice they are trying. The Windows I/O model does
definately blow the doors off the UNIX one, but then they had select to
point at in it's suckiness and anything would have been an improvement. UNIX
is just now looking at it's I/O model and adapting to a multiprocess
multithreaded world so it's gonna be years yet before a posix API comes out
of it. Bottom line is the "do stuff when something happens" model turned out
to be right, and the UNIX "look for something to do and keep looking till
you find it no matter how many times you have to look" is not really working
so great anymore.

- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0425.bc356b284544c185e4ac9e11f4ec1d4a.eml000066400000000000000000000057701444326627400312570ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  2 13:15:14 2002
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Well Beberg, unless you're really into Anime and actually hold true
that dead people can send email, I think Geege's subject is just dandy.
Especially since she removed herself from the hive that is aol (and
placed herself unto another, but hey :-))

Geege:  I think its cute when he worries like that, don't you?
:)

*ducks and runs*

(bonus FoRK points if Adam knows what anime i'm refering to)

BB


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0426.9239b06238f5128c209bbdd252e0fb8f.eml000066400000000000000000000067701444326627400311270ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  2 16:22:11 2002
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beberg, would you rather mrsrobinson@bellsouth.net?

into plastics too,
schuman

-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of
Joseph S. Barrera III
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 7:52 PM
To: FoRK
Subject: Re: revocation of grlygrl201@


bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:
 > Well Beberg, unless you're really into Anime and actually hold true
 > that dead people can send email, I think Geege's subject is just
 > dandy.

Funny you should mention that, as I just came back from refilling
the green coolant in my Navi.

 > (bonus FoRK points if Adam knows what anime i'm refering to)

I guess I don't get any points, do I? No, didn't think so.

- Joe

P.S. We've just started watching Boogiepop Phantom...

-- 
The Combatant State is your father and your mother, your only
protector, the totality of your interests. No discipline can
be stern enough for the man who denies that by word or deed.



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0427.0a5cdbfdb46be2bfac7cff1cae89dc25.eml000066400000000000000000000054641444326627400320600ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  2 16:22:19 2002
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Reza B'Far (eBuilt) wrote:
 > problems.... Why do most computer scientists insist on solving the
 > same problems over and over again when there are some many more
 > important and interesting problems (high level) to be solved ?????

Amen!

Doing it in an (unecessarily) harder way does NOT make you more of a man
(or less of a kiddie).

- Joe

-- 
The Combatant State is your father and your mother, your only
protector, the totality of your interests. No discipline can
be stern enough for the man who denies that by word or deed.



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0428.de24142d3236bb96f3ef6542c7dd98e8.eml000066400000000000000000000216371444326627400312300ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  2 16:22:18 2002
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"Once we thought of the Internet as this thing with infinite capabilities.
It was basically just a fad that came along."

Missing from the article is the percentage of foreign enrolement, I would
bet the numbers of students from Asia (China specificly) has gone up quite a
bit, and is the only thing keeping the overall numbers from plummiting.

"you can't get the chicks with that anymore."

About time us geeks were outcasts again. I was getting sick of hearing about
geeks breeding and ending up with autistic children - proving that
intelligence is a genetic defect and a "do not breed" flag.)

- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com

-----------------

Tech's Major Decline
College Students Turning Away From Bits and Bytes

By Ellen McCarthy
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, August 27, 2002; Page E01

If John Yandziak had been entering college a few years ago, he might have
sought a stake in the "new" economy. He might have dreamed of becoming an
ace code-cracker for the CIA or the National Security Agency, or imagined
toppling an empire with revolutionary software. Maybe he would have tried to
use the Internet to end world hunger.

But as Yandziak attends his first college classes this week, he's harboring
different academic ambitions. The Ashburn native says he wants to do
something more social and more interesting than working with computers.

Besides, he said while packing for a Charlottesville dormitory room, "you
can't get the chicks with that anymore."

The tech industry's financial problems are enough to bankrupt the dreams of
some fair-weather students. But now there's another consequence of the tech
bust: Enrollment growth in undergraduate computer science departments has
come to a halt.

The number of undergraduates majoring in computer science fell 1 percent in
2001, according to a report by the Computing Research Association. And
educators in the field say the trend seems to be accelerating, with some
colleges seeing much greater drops as the new academic year begins.

The word is out among department deans that the bust's fallout has trickled
into the classroom, said Maria Clavez, president of the Association of
Computing Machinery.

"I've heard everything from no change to modest decline to more dramatic
declines," said Clavez, who will become the dean of science and engineering
at Princeton University in January. "It can be hard to see this, because at
some colleges the number of people who want to study computer science so far
exceeds the available space. [But] it is going to have an effect."

At Virginia Tech, enrollment of undergraduates in the computer science
department will drop 25 percent this year, to 300. At George Washington
University, the number of incoming freshmen who plan to study computer
science fell by more than half this year.

Interest in undergraduate computer science programs had grown rapidly in the
past decade. In 1997, schools with PhD programs in computer science and
computer engineering granted 8,063 degrees, according to the Computing
Research Association. The numbers rose through 2001, when 17,048 degrees
were awarded.

The Labor Department projects that software engineering will be the
fastest-growing occupation between 2000 and 2010, with other
computer-related industries trailing close behind.

But in the short term that growth may slow, based on the changes among
college students. For example, 900 of the 2,000-plus undergraduates studying
information technology and engineering at George Mason University were
computer science majors last year. This year the enrollment in that major is
down to 800, although a newly created and more general information
technology major has attracted 200 students.

"Having it ease off for a while is a bit of a relief," said Lloyd Griffith,
dean of George Mason's information technology and engineering school.
"Particularly with the field as it has been, they don't want to spend four
years on something and then not get a job."

Freshman enrollment for the University of Maryland's computer science major
is expected to be about 167 this fall, down from 329 last year. Maryland
decreased its total freshman enrollment by 11 percent, but that alone does
not account for the drop, said Steve Halperin, dean of Maryland's College of
Computer, Mathematical and Physical Sciences.

"We are seeing a decrease in the number of freshmen who are declaring their
interest in pursuing computer science as a major," Halperin said. "That's a
factual statement. But I would say that at this point . . . we don't expect
to see a decrease in the number of graduates. Many of the kids who are no
longer expressing an interest in majoring in CS would have fallen off."

Yandziak, who began at the University of Virginia on Saturday, is not
convinced that's the case. He graduated in the top 5 percent of his class,
with a 3.9 grade-point average, and nailed the highest possible score on his
advanced-placement exam in computer science.

"All of my classes have been easy for me. Math and sciences were always fun,
so I looked for professions in which I could use those things," Yandziak
said. "I'm just not sure I want my life to be immersed in [technology]. I
want to do something that will contribute to the practical world."

Harris N. Miller, president of the Information Technology Association of
America, said the last time there was a dearth of computing professionals,
salaries skyrocketed and workers benefited from the labor shortage.

"There was a tremendous imbalance in the late '90s; potentially you have the
same sort of thing going on right now. People are saying, 'I don't need this
kind of IT training right now,' " Miller said. "Our concern as an industry
is that if they begin to again see major declines in enrollment, down the
road four years, as the economy picks up, once again companies are going to
find themselves in a shortage situation."

Economic potential weighs heavily in many student career choices, but other
factors, including program difficulty, personal interests and social
influences, also come into play, said Judy Hingle, director of professional
development at the American College Counseling Association. The perception
of computer science as an isolating, "nerdy" profession is one that many in
the industry have tried to squelch. That stereotype went underground during
the tech bubble but reemerged during the bust.

"All the hipness is gone," Yandziak said. "Once we thought of the Internet
as this thing with infinite capabilities. It was basically just a fad that
came along."

Lamont Thompson, a recent graduate of Calvin Coolidge Senior High School in
the District, is headed to Morehouse College in Atlanta to study business
marketing, with the intention of going into real estate development.

"Technology comes natural to people my age; it's not fascinating anymore,"
Thompson said. "To be honest with you, when I think computer science, I
think of some guy sitting behind a computer all day in a dark room. It's a
necessity, but I wouldn't take it any further."


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0429.507724a2bf64d0cfb77a9521b6e7c616.eml000066400000000000000000000055261444326627400311310ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  2 16:22:28 2002
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On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Joseph S. Barrera III wrote:

> Reza B'Far (eBuilt) wrote:
>  > problems.... Why do most computer scientists insist on solving the
>  > same problems over and over again when there are some many more
>  > important and interesting problems (high level) to be solved ?????
>
> Amen!

Like what exactly? All the problems are in chemisty and physics and biology
and mathematics. We're just enablers :)

> Doing it in an (unecessarily) harder way does NOT make you more of a man
> (or less of a kiddie).

Yes, but doing it an order of magnitude or 2 easier does :) Which with the
way things are now, is not hard at all to do.

- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0430.4e314d3f69d885ce2c18d2e64eb72a1b.eml000066400000000000000000000052271444326627400312630ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  2 16:22:27 2002
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On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Mr. FoRK wrote:

> > 6.  Hardware is getting so fast that I'm not sure if the performance
> > difference between Java and C/C++ are relevant any more.
>
> When out-of-the-box parsing & transform of XML in java is 25x slower than
> C++ on the same hardware then it does matter.

Yea, and that on top of the 100x of all the parsing engines over just
bigendian'ing it and passing the data (5x+++) in the raw. Then it REALLY
matters.

- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com


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From: Eirikur Hallgrimsson 
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On Sunday 01 September 2002 08:43 pm, Reza B'Far (eBuilt) wrote:
> 3.  Java is not just a programming language!

The astounding thing about java is that despite all of the many significant 
points in its favor, it still manages to suck, and break across JVMs.

I was really looking forward to being able to use a better language like 
java and get it compiled to real platform-specific binaries via the GNU 
compiler collection.   But this seems to have never really gotten anywhere 
because it would require porting or reimplementing libraries, which are 
probably not source-available or tolerably licenced.   When I looked at 
what I had to do to gcc and link "hello world," I lost interest.

Who the hell is writing the runtimes, anyway?   Why are Perl/Python/Ruby 
more reliable?   In a world where the Macs all ran emulated 68K code 
utterly reliably, it's just hard to accept that there can't be a single 
portable JVM that just works.

My opinion is biased because of the disgraceful state of non-Windoze 
browser java implementations.

Eirikur




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use this address instead, please.

prerogatively,
geege

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On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 03:19:13AM -0400, Eirikur Hallgrimsson wrote:
> My opinion is biased because of the disgraceful state of non-Windoze 
> browser java implementations.

Horrors. Applets are kinda sucky. The cool kids are using Java to write
server applications, not browser craplets.

The giggle-inducing irony of the whole Java thing is how Sun's strategy
backfired. They produced a platform that was supposed to dwell on the
client side, where it would commoditize those clients. Instead, it turns
out to be the perfect language to write server applications in, and it has
successfully commoditized servers. Ooops!

-- 
njl

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0434.0f6c124ba411ccbf48ed5ff2e19c4603.eml000066400000000000000000000071501444326627400313230ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  2 23:01:30 2002
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Subject: RE: Java is for kiddies
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With the increasing prevalence of web services (not that they are always a
good thing), I doubt that parsing XML will be something that will remain at
the Java application layer for long... Recent threads here on Fork
indicating the move towards hardware parsing or this code even become part
of the native implementation of Java on various platforms...

Reza B'Far

-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of Adam
L. Beberg
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 9:01 PM
To: Mr. FoRK
Cc: fork@example.com
Subject: Re: Java is for kiddies


On Sun, 1 Sep 2002, Mr. FoRK wrote:

> > 6.  Hardware is getting so fast that I'm not sure if the performance
> > difference between Java and C/C++ are relevant any more.
>
> When out-of-the-box parsing & transform of XML in java is 25x slower than
> C++ on the same hardware then it does matter.

Yea, and that on top of the 100x of all the parsing engines over just
bigendian'ing it and passing the data (5x+++) in the raw. Then it REALLY
matters.

- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0435.7d06c898a16be4efbfbdef62c347ab59.eml000066400000000000000000000054241444326627400315200ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  2 23:01:32 2002
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From: Tom 
To: vox@mindvox.com
Cc: fork@example.com
Subject: SChoolHouseRocks DVD
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Of course they had to do this AFTER we purcahsed these all on vhs, and yes
it is now run by the great evil empire known as disney...but we got the
new School House Rocks DVD anyway and man is it an amazing item.

First off , my 8 year old has been singing them since she was 6. Second
off, these are much easier to rip to divx and mp3. Third, new songs,
remastered originals and other dvd goodies. Its a 2 dvd set so its well
worth the 17$ we paid for it.

Even if you dont have kids, run do not walk to pick this one up.

Man, I would sure love to have a *nix Rocks for the kids.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0436.e455bb708c5f690f929aa5359a0a1411.eml000066400000000000000000000057051444326627400310430ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  2 23:01:35 2002
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>
> Microsoft has announced that they plan to remove Java from Windows.
> They took it out of XP already and it has to be installed with a
> service pack.  Somehow, I can't imagine them removing the ability to
> run C programs.
They removed /their/ Java VM. They didn't remove the ability to run Java
programs.
Anybody is free to develop their own Java VM and make it kick ass. As
someone said earlier in the thread, nobody is capable or willing to do that.

I've done a bunch of Java and haven't run into huge problems running the
same bytecode across Solaris or Win2K.
What actual problems have people actually run into. Actually.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0437.b5837ab1d2b764157464b0557b4aad93.eml000066400000000000000000000210211444326627400310270ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  2 23:01:34 2002
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-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of
Robert Harley
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 2:55 AM
To: fork@example.com
Subject: RE: Java is for kiddies


Reza B'Far wrote:
>This thread kind of surprises me... I started coding with C, then C++, and
>moved on to Java... And, I think that:
Robert Harley wrote:
>Looks like a case of "MY experience is comprehensive, YOUR'S is
>anecdotal, THEY don't know what they're talking about".

Well, I sure don't claim that... I think most people on Fork probably have
more programming knowledge than I do... There's lots of experience out
here...

Reza B'Far wrote:
>1.  The people who pay the wages don't give a flyin' heck what programming
>language you write things in... they just want it to work.
Robert Harley wrote:
>In my experience, they do care.  It has to work certainly, and in
>particular it has to work with what they've already got, and it has to
>work on client's systems.
>My limited experience of Java started a few years ago when support on
>Linux was so terrible that I ran away screaming and haven't come back yet.

Well, I think until recently, support for most things on Linux was kind of
shady... Things have got much better... You're right in that the JDK used to
suck on Linux... But then, IMHO, Linux is still maturing.... or at least
development tools for Linux are maturing... I've been developing a few
server side apps that run on Linux recently with JDK 1.3.x and they've had
no problems with great performance.

Robert Harley worte:
>Microsoft has announced that they plan to remove Java from Windows.
>They took it out of XP already and it has to be installed with a
>service pack.  Somehow, I can't imagine them removing the ability to
>run C programs.

Hmmm... Do you really think that MS is pulling out Java because it's a "Bad"
programming language or application platform?  You don't think this has
anything to do with .NET being a competitor to Java do you?  Or that MS has
basically copied Java (with some additional features) and called it C#?
Isn't that alone an indication that they actually DO think that a VM is the
right way to go for most high level applications?

Reza B'Far wrote:
>2.  C and C++ forces the developer to solve problems such as memory
>management over and over again.
Robert Harley wrote:
>Can't say I spend any noticeable amount of time on memory management
>issues, apart from the fact that I frequently need > 4 GB.

Hmmm again.... You're telling me that you've never had a nasty bug that took
you a couple of days to track down that had to do with a memory leak?  I am
not the best C/C++ programmer... not even close... But I've known really
good ones... and even they have nasty bugs that have to do with memory
management, however occasional they may be.

>It's about design patterns, architecture, high level stuff...
Robert Harley wrote:
>If your problem just requires application of a "design pattern" to solve,
>then it's trivial anyway irrespective of language.

Wow!  So you're telling me that unless the application involves
bit-counting, it's trivial?  What about the application itself?  What about
high level problems such as task distribution, work-flow, etc.?  Aren't most
high level problems solved with high level solutions like design patterns?
Or do you solve high level problems by writing optimal C/C++ code?  For
example, do you think that most people working on collaboration frameworks
(there are lots of them on this list), are working on writing an operating
system with assembly that provides for a collaborative environment?

>I am amazed by the amount of time wasted by people talking about low
>level problems that have been solved 10 million times over and over
>and over again...
Robert Harley wrote:
>You appear to be gratuitously asserting that C programmers waste time
>on irrelevant low-level problems and Java programmers don't.  Depends
>entirely on the programmer, not the language.

I can see how you could infer this. However, what I believe to really be the
case is that Java is one of the best languages for writing large
applications with many components that involves the collaboration of more
than three programmers.  In those cases, it's always very hard to get the
programmers to agree on API's, memory management techniques, etc.  With
Java, the JCP takes care of the discussions so that you don't sit around in
a long meeting trying to decide what API to use to hook up to a database
(JDBC) or a messaging bus (JMS).


>3.  Java is not just a programming language! It's also a platform...
Robert Harley wrote:
>Buzzword.

YIKES!  Have you written db code with C/C++ for different databases (just an
example)?  Tried porting a persistence layer from Windows to Unix?  Say you
have Informix running on Solaris and you want to port to Windows with MS SQL
(bad idea...but for the sake of the example), would you rather deal with
JDBC port or C/C++ port that uses Informix drivers and now you have to use
ODBC?


>a monolithic set of API's or a crap load of different API's slicing
>and dicing the same problems 50 different ways?
Robert Harley wrote:
>Unsupported assertion.

So, are you saying that there is a standard set of API's for C/C++ for
everything? (aside to the minimal ANSI stuff).  Is there a standard way of
dealing with C/C++ applications for various domain problems (messaging,
database persistence, etc.) that rivals Java?  I'd like to know if there is
one accepted by everyone who writes C/C++... In that case, I claim
ignorance...

Not suggesting that Java is the golden hammer.... Just that C/C++ is
overkill for most things... I even coded in VB... But VB is a true disgrace
to programming... It's just lame... Java is Object Oriented... (no
flame-mail from the anti-OO people please... that is a religious
discussion...) and relatively clean... And I don't think that every "Kid"
can write a well designed Java program.  Kids typically don't understand
various design patterns and principles... To my experience, they actually
tend to think more of the low level problems, wanting to rewrite and
reinvent the world... a tendency that is much more possible, IMHO, in C/C++
than in Java due to existence of standard API's.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0438.2c8e5278416ba90daef0c4874b5f00bb.eml000066400000000000000000000061511444326627400312550ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep  3 14:24:06 2002
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On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Reza B'Far (eBuilt) wrote:

> Hmmm again.... You're telling me that you've never had a nasty bug that took
> you a couple of days to track down that had to do with a memory leak?  I am
> not the best C/C++ programmer... not even close... But I've known really
> good ones... and even they have nasty bugs that have to do with memory
> management, however occasional they may be.

OK, noone has been tool-less for memory management for a LONG time. Most
systems you just add a flag and memory is tracked (that's how i've always
done it) or worst case yuo have to run it through one of the 2.3E7 tools
where you simply recompile and it it tells you where the leaks are.

Memory management is a non-issue for anyone that has any idea at all how the
hardware functions. Granted, this takes 30 minutes to go over, and so is far
beyond the scope of the "Learn Java in 90 minutes without thinking" book
every Java programmer learned from.

- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0439.44081ab02df438a46002b412aee32fbc.eml000066400000000000000000000062321444326627400311440ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep  3 14:24:06 2002
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On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Reza B'Far (eBuilt) wrote:

> With the increasing prevalence of web services (not that they are always a
> good thing), I doubt that parsing XML will be something that will remain at
> the Java application layer for long... Recent threads here on Fork
> indicating the move towards hardware parsing or this code even become part
> of the native implementation of Java on various platforms...

OK, so, you get the XML toss it through hardware and turn it back into a
struct/object whatever you call your binary data. I agree this is the way
things will go, as XML parsing has just too much overhead to survive in the
application layer. So why turn it into XML in the first place? Becasue it
gives geeks something to do and sells XML hardware accelerators and way more
CPUs?

Is there anyone out there actually doing anything new that actually IMPROVES
things anymore, or are they all too scared of the fact that improvements put
people out of work and cut #1 is the creators...

- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0440.59f6365d96fda96ac8b48059358e18b0.eml000066400000000000000000000066231444326627400310750ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep  3 14:24:09 2002
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Sunday I drove from Portland down to the Woodburn Dragstrip to check out 
the NEDRA Nationals. 

The electric cars, motorcycles and dragsters had some great times and I 
ended up with a few pics and a nice deep burn...

John Waylan (who was interviewed in Wired a few years back) pulled out a 
14.4 second run in the quarter mile (91mph), on a battery pack that 
hasn't been broken in yet. He expects to break his record next year 
topping his 13.1sec/99mph run a couple of years ago. He's shooting for a 
12 second run.

John also took out a replica 1908 Oldsmobile for a respectable 47mph 
run. (Remember, we started out with electric cars.)

Near the end of the day, Kilacycle took the track with an amazing 111mph 
run. Talk about a crotch rocket.

...Ross...


On Saturday, August 31, 2002, at 01:45  AM, Adam L. Beberg wrote:
> Personally I don't think Americans will ever go electric, there is too 
> much
> testosterone linked to the auto as the male's primary form of 
> compesating
> for other things. See.. now that's a job for you femanists, teach women 
> not
> to fall for a fast environmentally destuctive vehicle, you should only 
> have
> to rewrite 98% of the genome ;)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0441.ceab9dcbd4892de96af3e38b96205f54.eml000066400000000000000000000131111444326627400314300ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-workers-admin@redhat.com  Thu Aug 22 16:06:46 2002
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--==_Exmh_-403670396P
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> From:  Anders Eriksson 
> Date:  Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:05:30 +0200
>
> 
> > > Just cvs up'ed and nowadays Catch-up Unseen is __extremely__ slow on 
> > > large (>100 msgs) unseen sequences. Anybody else having this problem?
> > 
> > I'll take the blame.
> > 
> > The reason, I suspect, is that we're needlessly reading the .sequences file 
> > multiple times because of other sequences.  I need to make the code much 
> > smarter about handling that file, but first I have a few other fish to fry in 
> > my rather large patch that's on it's way.
> > 
> 
> No panic,
> 
> I'm all for cleaning things up before getting it optimized.

Okay, this fix is now checked in.

Chris

-- 
Chris Garrigues                 http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/
virCIO                          http://www.virCIO.Com
716 Congress, Suite 200
Austin, TX  78701		+1 512 374 0500

  World War III:  The Wrong-Doers Vs. the Evil-Doers.




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--==_Exmh_-451422450P
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> From:  Chris Garrigues 
> Date:  Thu, 22 Aug 2002 12:23:38 -0500
>
> Okay....Catchup unseen is something that I don't use often, but i can 
> certainly reproduce this.  I'll dig into it.  It's probably simple.

Try it now.

Chris

-- 
Chris Garrigues                 http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/
virCIO                          http://www.virCIO.Com
716 Congress, Suite 200
Austin, TX  78701		+1 512 374 0500

  World War III:  The Wrong-Doers Vs. the Evil-Doers.




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Thanks Tony, but I think doing it using component files will get a .signature 
by default, but I have many diferent signatures and I want to insert one of 
that signatures using a keyboard command. So for a message I will insert a 
signature, but for another message I will insert a different signature.

Is it possible? I am using sedit for my messages.

Thanks.
Ulises

> > Hi!
> > 
> > Is there a command to insert the signature using a combination of keys and not
> > to have sent the mail to insert it then?
> 
> I simply put it (them) into my (nmh) component files (components,
> replcomps, forwcomps and so on).  That way you get them when you are
> editing your message.  Also, by using comps files for specific
> folders you can alter your .sig per folder (and other tricks).  See
> the docs for (n)mh for all the details.
> 
> There might (must?) also be a way to get sedit to do it, but I've
> been using gvim as my exmh message editor for a long time now.  I
> load it with a command that loads some email-specific settings, eg,
> to "syntax" colour-highlight the headers and quoted parts of an
> email)... it would be possible to map some (vim) keys that would add
> a sig (or even give a selection of sigs to choose from).
> 
> And there are all sorts of ways to have randomly-chosen sigs...
> somewhere at rtfm.mit.edu... ok, here we go:
> rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/news.answers/signature_finger_faq.
> (Warning... it's old, May 1995).
> 
> > Regards,
> > Ulises
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Cheers
> Tony
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Exmh-users mailing list
> Exmh-users@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/exmh-users




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What's the trick again to have it default to showing text/plain instead of
html?

--Harlan



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>>>>> On Sat, 24 Aug 2002, "Harlan" == Harlan Feinstein wrote:

  Harlan> What's the trick again to have it default to showing
  Harlan> text/plain instead of html?

In ~/.exmh/exmh-defaults add:

*mime_alternative_prefs: text/plain text/enriched text/richtext text/html

Order possible alternatives from _your_ most preferred to least
preferred.

--Hal




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Subject: latest php upgrade in 7.3
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Today an apt-get upgrade holds back php (and submodules, like php-imap). 
  Running an apt-get install php to see what's up, I get:

# apt-get install php
Processing File Dependencies... Done
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
   curl-devel imap imap-devel mysql mysql-devel php-imap php-ldap postgresql
   postgresql-devel postgresql-libs pspell-devel ucd-snmp-devel 
ucd-snmp-utils
   unixODBC unixODBC-devel
The following NEW packages will be installed:
   curl-devel imap imap-devel mysql mysql-devel postgresql postgresql-devel
   postgresql-libs pspell-devel ucd-snmp-devel ucd-snmp-utils unixODBC
   unixODBC-devel
The following packages will be upgraded
   php php-imap php-ldap
3 packages upgraded, 13 newly installed, 0 to remove(replace) and 1 not 
upgraded.

Anyone have an idea what the heck RedHat did here, and why we're now 
trying to install a ton of crap I don't want?  (I'm hoping someone else 
has chased this down and could save me time... ;) )

thx,
-te

-- 
Troy Engel, Systems Engineer
Cool as the other side of the pillow


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Subject: Re: latest php upgrade in 7.3
From: seth vidal 
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On Thu, 2002-08-22 at 19:10, Troy Engel wrote:
> Today an apt-get upgrade holds back php (and submodules, like php-imap). 
>   Running an apt-get install php to see what's up, I get:
> 
> # apt-get install php
> Processing File Dependencies... Done
> Reading Package Lists... Done
> Building Dependency Tree... Done
> The following extra packages will be installed:
>    curl-devel imap imap-devel mysql mysql-devel php-imap php-ldap postgresql
>    postgresql-devel postgresql-libs pspell-devel ucd-snmp-devel 
> ucd-snmp-utils
>    unixODBC unixODBC-devel
> The following NEW packages will be installed:
>    curl-devel imap imap-devel mysql mysql-devel postgresql postgresql-devel
>    postgresql-libs pspell-devel ucd-snmp-devel ucd-snmp-utils unixODBC
>    unixODBC-devel
> The following packages will be upgraded
>    php php-imap php-ldap
> 3 packages upgraded, 13 newly installed, 0 to remove(replace) and 1 not 
> upgraded.
> 
> Anyone have an idea what the heck RedHat did here, and why we're now 
> trying to install a ton of crap I don't want?  (I'm hoping someone else 
> has chased this down and could save me time... ;) )
> 

rh bugzilla 72007

thats the answer

-sv



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Subject: Re: latest php upgrade in 7.3
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On Thu, 2002-08-22 at 19:10, Troy Engel wrote:

> Anyone have an idea what the heck RedHat did here, and why we're now 
> trying to install a ton of crap I don't want?  (I'm hoping someone else 
> has chased this down and could save me time... ;) )

I'm told that even our best people occasionally screw up. And QA had
tested the rpm on an "Everything" install. Expect a fixed version soon,
and QA procedures have been adjusted to catch this kind of braindamage
in the future. There is nothing really wrong with the binary inside the
rpm, so if you want to --nodeps for now it's ok.

-- 
Chris Kloiber


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0453.783e494dbe429698f152a49c0ff0d719.eml000066400000000000000000000070451444326627400310740ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Mon Aug 26 15:21:07 2002
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From: Gilles Fabio 
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Hi everybody !

My name is Gilles, I'm 19 and I'm french. My english is very bad and I'm sorry 
if you do not understand correctly my emails. 

I use Linux since 3 months. Before I worked with Windows 2000 Pro. I enjoy Red 
Hat... I tried Mandrake, SuSE, Debian, Slackware and my favorite of all of 
them is Red Hat. 

Actually I use Red Hat 7.3.

I visited the web site Freshrpms, I congratulated Thias for his work.

And I subscribed to this list for to know more about Red Hat and RPMs' news.

Pleased to read U soon.
Gilles (Nice, South of France)

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Subject: Re: Fw: Re: When are we going to get. [making ALSA rpms]
From: Lance 
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Thanks for this information.  I gave Alsa a try, couldn't figure out how
to enable digital out, although I'm sure if I put enough time into it,
could have gotten it working.  Also when playing mp3s in analog mode,
every time I switched between mp3s there was a bit of static.  Noticed a
new distribution geared towards audio applications, AGNULA
(http://www.agnula.org/) uses Alsa as well.  Seems though the latest
open source emu10k1 drivers (SBLive! 5.1) work fair enough.  Anyone else
experience these problems with Alsa?  Are there alot of people on this
list using Alsa?

Regards,

Lance

On Sat, 2002-08-24 at 17:45, Angles Puglisi wrote:
> FYI, This is how I make my ALSA rpms ... some people on the (null) list did not
> realize it was pretty easy.
> 
> btw, I do this lot since I've upgraded from RH7.3 to Limbo1 to Limbo2 to Null all in
> a week (probably).
> 
> forward - original mail:
>   From "Angles Puglisi" 
>   Date 08/24/2002 - 06:38:03 pm
>   Subject Re: When are we going to get....
> ----
> 

> From:  Angles  Puglisi 
> To: limbo-list@example.com
> Subject: Re: When are we going to get....
> Date: 24 Aug 2002 22:40:40 +0000
> 
> OK, I do this every time I update a kernel.
> 
> The 1st time I added ALSA, I tried a non-root rpom build but the DEV things were not
> made. Other than that, I bet you could do non-root. The following can be scripted
> easily.
> 
> 1. get (a) alsa-drivers, (b) alas-lib, and (c) alsa-utils tarballs (if upgrading the
> kernel then you probably have them from your last install).
> 2. unpack them somewhere.
> 3. for each of them, go to the top directory of the unpacked tarball, and do
> ../configure, then look in (I'm going by memory) TOPDIR/utils/* you should see a spec
> file there. Do this for the 3 tarballs and you get 3 spec files.
> 
> 4. put the source tarballs in SOURCES and the spec files in SPECS, go in order from
> a, b, then c, doing
>  "rpmbuild -ba SPECS/alsa-[X].spec; rpm -Uvh RPMS/i386/alsa-[X].rpm"
> 
> 5. do that in order for the 3 spec files and you have just installed the alsa
> drivers on your system. The 1st time you do this you need to put the correct stuff
> in your modules.conf file (may take some research) then you get the alsa driver and
> OSS compat capabilities, or you can choose not to use the OOS compat stuff.
> 
> Script making the spec, then building and upgrading, as above, and you have
> "no-sweat" ALSA.
> 
> NOTE: the (null) rpmbuild did take some tweaking, it does a check for files in the
> buildroot that you don't specify in your files section. In this case there is an
> extra file (going by memory) "/include/sys/asound.h". Add a line at the end on the
> "install" section of the spec file to delete that file and you are good to go.
> 
> Gordon Messmer (yinyang@eburg.com) wrote*:
> >
> >On Fri, 2002-08-23 at 03:41, Matthias Saou wrote:
> >>
> >> Probably when Red Hat Linux gets a 2.6 kernel ;-) Until then, a few places
> >> provide good quality alsa packages, but indeed you still have to patch and
> >> recompile your kernel.
> >
> >Not so.  Alsa is build-able independently of the kernel.
> >
> >> Maybe some day I'll try ALSA (never done it yet), and that day you can
> >> expect all needed packages to appear on freshrpms.net :-)
> >
> >I'd be interested in working with you on that if you want those
> >packages.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Limbo-list mailing list
> >Limbo-list@redhat.com
> >
> 
> --
> That's "angle" as in geometry.
-- 
:
####[ Linux One Stanza Tip (LOST) ]###########################

Sub : Extracting lines X to Y in a text file         LOST #261

Use sed ... Syntax: [$sed -n 'X,Yp' < textfile.txt]. Following
will extract lines 5-10 from textin.fil to textout.fil ... 
$sed -n '5,10p' < textin.fil > textout.fil

########################################
:


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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: When are we going to get. [making ALSA rpms]
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Once upon a time, ""Angles" wrote :

> FYI, This is how I make my ALSA rpms ... some people on the (null) list
> did not realize it was pretty easy.

Thanks Angles! I really think I'll give ALSA a shot fairly soon then ;-)

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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On Mon, Aug 26, 2002 at 07:14:54PM +0200, Matthias Saou wrote:
> I've repackaged the new gkrellm 2.0.0 which is now ported to gtk2
> (woohoo!). Unfortunately, the plugins are incompatible with the
> previous 1.2.x ones, and since not many/all have been ported yet, I
> prefer not to release the package on the main freshrpms.net site for
> now.

You could go the same way as the others and call it gkrellm2 and
conflict with v1 if the executables or paths are the same.

-- 
Hey, you're right. I don't want to call a destructor on my objects,
I want to call a *destroyer*. Gozer has come for your memory,
little PersistentNode!
		-- Joel Gluth 


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On Mon, 26 Aug 2002 19:14:54 +0200, Matthias Saou  wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I've repackaged the new gkrellm 2.0.0 which is now ported to gtk2
> (woohoo!). Unfortunately, the plugins are incompatible with the previous
> 1.2.x ones, and since not many/all have been ported yet, I prefer not to
> release the package on the main freshrpms.net site for now.
> 
> For those of you who'd like to try it out, you can grab it here :
> http://ftp.freshrpms.net/pub/freshrpms/testing/gkrellm/
> 
> I think the themes are still compatible, but haven't tried to install some
> with 2.0.0 yet.
> Last note, the above packages are for Valhalla. And yes, although GNOME 2
> is not in Valhalla, gtk2 and glib2 have been from the very beginning! ;-)

    Sweet, dude- I was really hoping it'd be out sooner or later; thanks a bunch!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Fahrl�nder              Linux Zealot, Conservative, and Technomad
Evansville, IN                    My Voyage: http://www.CounterMoon.com
ICQ  5119262
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been complaining for years, and almost no one listened. "Windows is
just easier" you said. "I don't want to learn anything new", you said.
Tell me how easy THIS is:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4477138,00.html

_______________________________________________
RPM-List mailing list 
http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list

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> made. Other than that, I bet you could do non-root. The following can
be scripted
> easily.
> 
...
> 2. unpack them somewhere.
> 3. for each of them, go to the top directory of the unpacked tarball,
and do
> ../configure, then look in (I'm going by memory) TOPDIR/utils/* you
should see a spec
> file there. Do this for the 3 tarballs and you get 3 spec files.
> 

The above steps can all be performed "automatically",
if the .spec files are updated to include the necessary
macros in the %prep (%setup -q) and %build stages.
This would make the building of the .rpm files less
error prone and more self-contained, and it would be
somewhat self-documenting.

---


_______________________________________________
RPM-List mailing list 
http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0459.2c0709ef91a247c38217a7f881c26c42.eml000066400000000000000000000055651444326627400310010ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep  3 14:24:14 2002
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On 2 Sep 2002, RossO wrote:

> John Waylan (who was interviewed in Wired a few years back) pulled out a
> 14.4 second run in the quarter mile (91mph), on a battery pack that
> hasn't been broken in yet. He expects to break his record next year
> topping his 13.1sec/99mph run a couple of years ago. He's shooting for a
> 12 second run.

Battery pack, huh what???

You dont use batteries for a 1/4 mile run, you use capacitors. MANY times
the energy density, and you can get the energy out fast enough. Note that
the battery packs are fully swapped out for recharging after each run
anyway, just like a gas dragster is refueled, so this wouldnt be cheating.
200 MPH should be no problem.

- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0460.635d9fbb23dbfb74a99d95e6ebd44c03.eml000066400000000000000000000051421444326627400314310ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep  3 14:24:08 2002
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam L. Beberg" 
>
> Memory management is a non-issue for anyone that has any idea at all how
the
> hardware functions.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice
there is.


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http://www.guardian.co.uk/Print/0%2c3858%2c4489999%2c00.html

Making a mesh on the move

A new way to give us fast mobile net access spells further trouble for 3G, 
reports Peter Rojas

Peter Rojas
Thursday August 29, 2002
The Guardian

Imagine being able to surf the net at speeds faster than DSL from 
anywhere, at any time - you could watch a live video webcast while waiting 
for the bus, email photos to your friends while sitting in the park, or 
download the MP3 of the song that's playing in the pub before it finishes.

This is the vision of a high-speed wireless internet paradise that the 
third-generation (3G) mobile phone companies have been promoting for 
years. 3G services are just beginning to be rolled out, but a new 
technology called mesh networking promises to deliver on this vision 
sooner and more effectively than the mobile phone companies could ever 
dream.

Two companies, US startup MeshNetworks and Moteran Networks of Germany, 
are each developing their own competing version of mesh networking. 
Instead of the current hub-and-spoke model of wireless communications, 
with every device connecting to an overburdened central antenna, any time 
"mesh-enabled" devices - mobile phones, PDAs, laptops - are in close 
proximity to each other, they automatically create a wireless mesh 
network. Every device in the area acts as a repeater or router, relaying 
traffic for everyone else. Traffic hops from person to person until it 
reaches the nearest internet access point, reducing the need for central 
antennas, and improving wireless coverage.

As the number of mobile phones soars, and wireless PDAs, laptops, and 
other devices begin to crowd the spectrum, this approach to wireless 
networking may be inevitable.

Mesh networks also have several other advantages over 3G wireless 
networks. While 3G operators roll out mobile services that offer users 
connection speeds of up to 144 kbps (roughly three times faster than a 
dial-up modem), Moteran and MeshNetworks are able to offer connection 
speeds of up to 6Mbps, over a hundred times faster than dial-up. The 
technologies they use include Wi-Fi - the emerging standard for high-speed 
wireless networking also known as 802.11b. A similarly short-range 
protocol called UltraWideBand, which is poised to succeed Wi-Fi, is even 
faster and could, by 2005, approach 400 Mbps.

The range of a typical Wi-Fi network is generally too limited to be of 
much use when travelling around a city. Mesh networks get around the 
problem of coverage by having every device in the network relay traffic. 
Even though the range of any individual device is relatively small, 
because (in theory) there will be so many users in the surrounding area, 
connections will be faster and better than that of a standard 3G wireless 
connection.

Because mesh networks use Wi-Fi, the equipment and infrastructure needed 
to create them is cheap and readily available. Instead of building 
cellular phone towers that often cost hundreds of thousands of pounds, all 
that is needed to get a network going are wireless access points (around 
�100 now) placed strategically around town to relay traffic, and the 
proper software. Existing laptops and PDAs can be mesh-enabled by 
software.

It also means that anyone could set up their own mobile phone network. 
Unlike with 3G cellular, the part of the spectrum that Wi-Fi operates on 
is unregulated in the US, Britain. The mobile phone companies are none too 
pleased about this, especially since many of them spent billions of pounds 
acquiring 3G licences.

All that's needed are cheap relays and mobile phones equipped to connect 
to the network. With every additional customer that signs up coverage gets 
better, instead of getting worse, as is the case with mobile phone 
networks.

But things get very interesting when you realise that when you have 
high-speed internet connections everywhere, and everyone's laptops, PDAs, 
and mobile phones are connected together at blazingly fast speeds, sharing 
music, movies, or whatever else becomes ridiculously easy. When 
UltraWideBand hits, all of this will just accelerate.

At 400Mbps, copying a pirated copy of the Lord of the Rings from the 
person sitting across from you at the cafe would take about 15 seconds. 
Sooner or later, playgrounds will be filled with kids swapping files of 
their favourite songs, movies, and video games.

But the first mesh networks are not likely to be available to consumers. 
MeshNetworks has no plans to offer its own high-speed wireless service. 
Instead the company plans to sell its technology to others, such as cities 
that want to provide wireless internet to police, fire, and public works 
employees, or businesses that want to establish wireless networks on the 
cheap. Moteran has similar aspirations for small businesses and for 
enterprise networks.

The first place average users may use the technology is when it is 
incorporated into vehicles, enabling motorists to access the internet at 
high speeds, which both companies see happening soon.

When will you be able to wander around town with a 6Mbps connection in 
your pocket? It's too soon to say, but just as broadband internet service 
was initially available only to businesses and universities, eventually 
someone will see the profit in bringing mesh networking to the masses.




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0463.c5c77cc5a816139109a96702b323b6b3.eml000066400000000000000000000072111444326627400307520ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep  3 14:24:46 2002
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On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Adam L. Beberg wrote:

> Battery pack, huh what???
> 
> You dont use batteries for a 1/4 mile run, you use capacitors. MANY times

Actually, you use both.

> the energy density, and you can get the energy out fast enough. Note that

No, even best supercapacitors are a long way to go from reasonably good 
electrochemical energy sources. But you can recharge and discharge them 
very quickly, and they take lots more of cycles than the best battery. 
Ideal for absorbing the braking energy and turn them into smoking tires 
few moments or minutes afterwards.

> the battery packs are fully swapped out for recharging after each run
> anyway, just like a gas dragster is refueled, so this wouldnt be cheating.
> 200 MPH should be no problem.

I don't see any reason why EVs shouldn't dominate dragster runs. The
traction is the limiting factor, not motor power. You can basically put
the motors into wheelhubs mounted on a composite frame, and dump juice
into them until they melt, which will be some 100 sec downstream. Plenty
of time to smoke anything.

Of course, it doesn't roar, and spew smokage, so it won't happen.


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To: "Russell Turpin" 
Cc: fork@example.com
Subject: Re: Signers weren't angry young men  (was: Java is for kiddies)
References: 
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
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I stand corrected --- I'd thought I'd seen a display there listing in
the Ben Franklin museum which showed them as ranging in age from 19 to
just over 30 for the oldest, most in their early twenties.

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy  TeleDynamics Communications Inc
 Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0465.e7cf144bbb6013653c38e838fd68f581.eml000066400000000000000000000055431444326627400311450ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep  3 22:20:20 2002
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> Another thing to note about Australia is that, while the highest income
> tax bracket (47%) isn't *that* high, it kicks in at around USD33,000.

and it looks like PPP for USD 33k is only
about USD 50k*, at least in Big Macs:


Australia	 A$3.00 USD 1.62	-35%
US		  $2.49 USD 2.49
Switzerland	SFr6.30 USD 3.81	+53%

Interestingly enough, although housing in
Perth seems cheap, housing in Switzerland
doesn't seem to be as expensive as the Big
Macs would imply.

-Dave

* which still doesn't sound bad, if one
can convert urban CA equity into free and
clear Oz ownership.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0466.831f4b97805c8e03cf6630716309e89e.eml000066400000000000000000000056461444326627400307410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep  3 22:20:28 2002
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On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Russell Turpin wrote:

> For the most part, these were angry, middle-aged men. A column in this
> table shows their age at the time:

Mainly they were a bunch of rich people (the white/old/male is irrelivant
but how it happened to be at the time) that didnt want to pay their taxes to
da man er... king. So they had a revolution and formed a no-tax zone,
leading to a very fast growing economy and dreams for all - amazing what
an economy without 40% of everything disappearing to taxes. It was a great
many years before their were federal taxes in the US.

Now we give rich men who dont want to pay any taxes corporations to run,
with enough writeoffs and loopholes that they dont have to pay any :)

- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0467.2c8e19f45e0110db44dcda8529f10676.eml000066400000000000000000000067111444326627400311250ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep  3 22:20:28 2002
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I used Async IO on System V in the '87, '88 time frame.  I did it that
way cause I thought it was cool to see if I could keep the tape
spinning.

I can believe Linux is catching up to this, but some ability to do async
IO already existed in the UNIX world.

John Hall
13464 95th Ave NE
Kirkland WA 98034


> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
Adam
> L. Beberg
> Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 7:35 PM
> To: fork@example.com
> Subject: Gasp!
> 
> "Red Hat Linux Advanced Server provides many high end features such
as:
> Support for Asynchronous I/O. Now read I/O no longer needs to stall
your
> application while waiting for completion."
> 
> Could it be? After 20 years without this feature UNIX finally catches
up
> to
> Windows and has I/O that doesnt totally suck for nontrivial apps? No
way!
> 
> OK, so they do it with signals or a flag, which is completely ghetto,
but
> at
> least they are trying. Keep trying guys, you got the idea, but not the
> clue.
> 
> - Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
>   http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
>   beberg@mithral.com



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0468.0b81ecd8710adb4c1ed9920b5fd03e88.eml000066400000000000000000000052601444326627400313420ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep  3 22:20:34 2002
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Subject: Re: Signers weren't angry young men  (was: Java is for kiddies)
From: Luis Villa 
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On Tue, 2002-09-03 at 16:31, Adam L. Beberg wrote:

> It was a great many years before their were federal taxes in the US.

And during said period there were more than a few serious depressions.
Amazing what economies tend to do with or without taxes.

Luis

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0469.8b40f778677e8d001ca14bcc4268b41b.eml000066400000000000000000000136651444326627400311350ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep  4 11:41:40 2002
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Subject: InfoWorld profile of Max Levchin
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Congrats, in the end...
> "If they didn't have Max, they might have succumbed, because PayPal was 
> susceptible to fraud and money laundering, and Max tightened them up,"

http://www.infoworld.com/articles/ct/xml/02/09/02/020902ctspotlight.xml

Secure and at ease
By�Jack Mccarthy
August 30, 2002 1:01 pm PT

MAX LEVCHIN'S FASCINATION with encryption started when he was a teenager 
in Kiev, Ukraine, and continued as he immigrated to the United States 
where he attended the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. In 
late 1998, not two years out of college, he drew on his passion to 
co-found PayPal, the online payment system that has since attracted tens 
of millions of users and gained the reputation as the premier Internet 
transaction processor. Now online auction house eBay has acquired his 
company for a king's ransom.

Not bad for a 27-year-old kid from Ukraine.

A programmer since he was 10 years old, Levchin and his family moved to 
Chicago in 1991, and since then he has pursued security as if on a 
mission. He created a startup right out of college to build secure 
passwords for Palm Pilots. He met Peter Thiel, and the two founded 
PayPal to target online payment security. Thiel is now CEO of the 
company.

"This company was founded on the notion of security value," Levchin 
says. "Peter Thiel and I shared that vision from the very beginning."

Thiel concentrates on company business matters, whereas Levchin remains 
focused on security, which he says is the key to the company's good 
fortune.

"I explain [PayPal] as a security company posing as a transaction 
processor," Levchin says. "We spend a lot of time designing security so 
it doesn't step on the toes of convenience and not the other way around. 
The trade-off is fundamental."

Mountain View, Calif.-based PayPal allows businesses and consumers with 
e-mail addresses to send and receive payments via the Internet, 
accepting credit card or bank account payments for purchases. The 
service extends to 38 countries, with more than 17 million users and 
more than 3 million business accounts.

Most of PayPal's users are participants in online auctions, which led 
PayPal to be closely linked with eBay, the leading Web auction site. 
Although they were once rivals, the relationship between the two 
companies resulted July 8 in eBay's tentative $1.5 billion acquisition 
of PayPal. The agreement is subject to regulatory review.

Levchin says he will stay at PayPal as it merges with eBay. "There are 
areas of synergy and collaboration we can explore."

Although security is a dominant feature for PayPal, the company's 
ability to carry out open communications among the millions of 
participants fits the growing Web services model, Levchin says.

"This is a service that links people and allows them to send messages to 
one another," he says. Levchin is a panelist at InfoWorld's 
Next-Generation Web Services II conference Sept. 20

PayPal, as an online payment system, is a natural target for fraud. And 
Levchin has almost singlehandedly saved the company from thieves bent on 
exploiting the system, says Avivah Litan, a vice president and analyst 
covering financial services at Stamford, Conn.-based Gartner.

"If they didn't have Max, they might have succumbed, because PayPal was 
susceptible to fraud and money laundering, and Max tightened them up," 
Litan says.

To combat criminals, Levchin established "Igor," an antifraud program 
that monitors transactions and warns of suspicious accounts. Levchin 
says building security and antifraud systems is a job he relishes. "The 
work I do is important to PayPal and to consumers in general because the 
work makes Internet shopping safe. It's the view that ecommerce has 
arrived."


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0470.d5ad7286cd913b0cfdff5b954b9338ac.eml000066400000000000000000000141721444326627400314330ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep  4 11:41:44 2002
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From: kragen@pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
To: fork@example.com
Subject: asynchronous I/O (was Re: Gasp!)
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Of course we've had select() since BSD 4.2 and poll() since System V
or so, and they work reasonably well for asynchronous I/O up to a
hundred or so channels, but suck after that; /dev/poll (available in
Solaris and Linux) is one approach to solving this; Linux has a way to
do essentially the same thing with real-time signals, and has for
years; and FreeBSD has kqueue.

More details about these are at
http://www.citi.umich.edu/projects/linux-scalability/

None of this helps with disk I/O; most programs that need to overlap
disk I/O with computation, on either proprietary Unixes or Linux, just
use multiple threads or processes to handle the disk I/O.

POSIX specifies a mechanism for nonblocking disk I/O that most
proprietary Unixes implement.  The Linux kernel hackers are currently
rewriting Linux's entire I/O subsystem essentially from scratch to
work asynchronously, because they can easily build efficient
synchronous I/O primitives from asynchronous ones, but not the other
way around. So now Linux will support this mechanism too.

It probably doesn't need saying for anyone who's read Beberg saying
things like "Memory management is a non-issue for anyone that has any
idea at all how the hardware functions," but he's totally off-base.
People should know by now not to take anything he says seriously, but
apparently some don't, so I'll rebut.

Not surprisingly, the rebuttal requires many more words than the
original stupid errors.

In detail, he wrote:
> Could it be? After 20 years without this feature UNIX finally
> catches up to Windows and has I/O that doesnt [sic] totally suck for
> nontrivial apps? No way!

Unix acquired nonblocking I/O in the form of select() about 23 years
ago, and Solaris has had the particular aio_* calls we are discussing
for many years.  Very few applications need the aio_* calls ---
essentially only high-performance RDBMS servers even benefit from them
at all, and most of those have been faking it fine for a while with
multiple threads or processes.  This just provides a modicum of extra
performance.

> OK, so they do it with signals or a flag, which is completely
> ghetto, but at least they are trying. Keep trying guys, you got the
> idea, but not the clue.

Readers can judge who lacks the clue here.

> The Windows I/O model does definately [sic] blow the doors off the
> UNIX one, but then they had select to point at in it's [sic]
> suckiness and anything would have been an improvement. UNIX is just
> now looking at it's [sic] I/O model and adapting to a multiprocess
> multithreaded world so it's gonna be years yet before a posix API
> comes out of it.

Although I don't have a copy of the spec handy, I think the aio_* APIs
come from the POSIX spec IEEE Std 1003.1-1990, section 6.7.9, which is
13 years old, and which I think documented then-current practice.
They might be even older than that.

Unix has been multiprocess since 1969, and most Unix implementations
have supported multithreading for a decade or more.

> Bottom line is the "do stuff when something happens" model turned
> out to be right, and the UNIX "look for something to do and keep
> looking till you find it no matter how many times you have to look"
> is not really working so great anymore.

Linux's aio_* routines can notify the process of their completion with
a "signal", a feature missing in Microsoft Windows; a "signal" causes
the immediate execution of a "signal handler" in a process.  By
contrast, the Microsoft Windows mechanisms to do similar things (such
as completion ports) do not deliver a notification until the process
polls them.

I don't think signals are a better way to do things in this case
(although I haven't written any RDBMSes myself), but you got the
technical descriptions of the two operating systems exactly backwards.
Most programs that use Linux real-time signals for asynchronous
network I/O, in fact, block the signal in question and poll the signal
queue in a very Windowsish way, using sigtimedwait() or sigwaitinfo().

-- 
       Kragen Sitaker     
Edsger Wybe Dijkstra died in August of 2002.  This is a terrible loss after 
which the world will never be the same.
http://www.xent.com/pipermail/fork/2002-August/013974.html

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0471.55f1c6122fd60d151c2c42182ecb734a.eml000066400000000000000000000043501444326627400310730ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep  4 11:41:48 2002
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Ah, THIS is the car i've seen on discovery channel, but url via a lurker.

http://arivettracing.com/battery.html

- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0472.7754e8093e51b661160153403b2915c4.eml000066400000000000000000000047241444326627400304600ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep  4 11:42:04 2002
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Adam L. Beberg wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Kragen Sitaker wrote:
> [entire post included]

Yep, he sure did. But thanks for reminding us.



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0473.c16661c43da07d0a3a9baaca5e14292d.eml000066400000000000000000000150611444326627400313110ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep  4 11:41:51 2002
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On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Kragen Sitaker wrote:

> Of course we've had select() since BSD 4.2 and poll() since System V
> or so, and they work reasonably well for asynchronous I/O up to a
> hundred or so channels, but suck after that; /dev/poll (available in
> Solaris and Linux) is one approach to solving this; Linux has a way to
> do essentially the same thing with real-time signals, and has for
> years; and FreeBSD has kqueue.
>
> More details about these are at
> http://www.citi.umich.edu/projects/linux-scalability/
>
> None of this helps with disk I/O; most programs that need to overlap
> disk I/O with computation, on either proprietary Unixes or Linux, just
> use multiple threads or processes to handle the disk I/O.
>
> POSIX specifies a mechanism for nonblocking disk I/O that most
> proprietary Unixes implement.  The Linux kernel hackers are currently
> rewriting Linux's entire I/O subsystem essentially from scratch to
> work asynchronously, because they can easily build efficient
> synchronous I/O primitives from asynchronous ones, but not the other
> way around. So now Linux will support this mechanism too.
>
> It probably doesn't need saying for anyone who's read Beberg saying
> things like "Memory management is a non-issue for anyone that has any
> idea at all how the hardware functions," but he's totally off-base.
> People should know by now not to take anything he says seriously, but
> apparently some don't, so I'll rebut.
>
> Not surprisingly, the rebuttal requires many more words than the
> original stupid errors.
>
> In detail, he wrote:
> > Could it be? After 20 years without this feature UNIX finally
> > catches up to Windows and has I/O that doesnt [sic] totally suck for
> > nontrivial apps? No way!
>
> Unix acquired nonblocking I/O in the form of select() about 23 years
> ago, and Solaris has had the particular aio_* calls we are discussing
> for many years.  Very few applications need the aio_* calls ---
> essentially only high-performance RDBMS servers even benefit from them
> at all, and most of those have been faking it fine for a while with
> multiple threads or processes.  This just provides a modicum of extra
> performance.
>
> > OK, so they do it with signals or a flag, which is completely
> > ghetto, but at least they are trying. Keep trying guys, you got the
> > idea, but not the clue.
>
> Readers can judge who lacks the clue here.
>
> > The Windows I/O model does definately [sic] blow the doors off the
> > UNIX one, but then they had select to point at in it's [sic]
> > suckiness and anything would have been an improvement. UNIX is just
> > now looking at it's [sic] I/O model and adapting to a multiprocess
> > multithreaded world so it's gonna be years yet before a posix API
> > comes out of it.
>
> Although I don't have a copy of the spec handy, I think the aio_* APIs
> come from the POSIX spec IEEE Std 1003.1-1990, section 6.7.9, which is
> 13 years old, and which I think documented then-current practice.
> They might be even older than that.
>
> Unix has been multiprocess since 1969, and most Unix implementations
> have supported multithreading for a decade or more.
>
> > Bottom line is the "do stuff when something happens" model turned
> > out to be right, and the UNIX "look for something to do and keep
> > looking till you find it no matter how many times you have to look"
> > is not really working so great anymore.
>
> Linux's aio_* routines can notify the process of their completion with
> a "signal", a feature missing in Microsoft Windows; a "signal" causes
> the immediate execution of a "signal handler" in a process.  By
> contrast, the Microsoft Windows mechanisms to do similar things (such
> as completion ports) do not deliver a notification until the process
> polls them.
>
> I don't think signals are a better way to do things in this case
> (although I haven't written any RDBMSes myself), but you got the
> technical descriptions of the two operating systems exactly backwards.
> Most programs that use Linux real-time signals for asynchronous
> network I/O, in fact, block the signal in question and poll the signal
> queue in a very Windowsish way, using sigtimedwait() or sigwaitinfo().
>
> --
>        Kragen Sitaker     
> Edsger Wybe Dijkstra died in August of 2002.  This is a terrible loss after
> which the world will never be the same.
> http://www.xent.com/pipermail/fork/2002-August/013974.html
>

- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0474.0b5f82aa1324baf9cf718849c48d679e.eml000066400000000000000000000135271444326627400312310ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep  4 11:42:23 2002
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--- begin forwarded text


Status: RO
From: A guy who models plasma all day...
To: "R. A. Hettinga" 
Subject: Re: Electric car an Edsel...
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 22:49:20 -0600

Bob,

This capacitor drive idea isn't completely stupid, but neither is it well
thought out.

Maxwell (www.maxwell.com) makes and sells high energy density capacitors,
called ultracapacitors.  They deliver them in an air-cooled, voltage
regulated module that will charge to 42 V and hold 128 kilojoules -- roughly
the energy in 2 teaspoons of sugar or a bite of a donut -- and weighs 16
kilograms.  If that electrical energy could all be converted to kinetic
energy, there's enough to get the capacitor module up to about 200 mph -- in
a vacuum.

Suppose you take the entire power density of the capacitor module -- 2.8
kw/kg (~4 hp/kg!) --  and punch it through an electric motor.  How much does
the 64 hp electric motor weigh?  If it were as little as 50 kg -- and I bet
it isn't -- that capacitor and motor would have a top speed of 100 mph --
the speed at which their energy is the 128 kJ that was initially stored
electrically in the capacitor.  And it's not at all obvious that the torque
vs. speed characteristic of 42 V DC motors will support this, or how they do
it without wheels, drive train, etc.

But if they can, they can only do it in a vacuum where there is no drag!

On to the Lunarnationals?  Or would you prefer the bite of donut?




----- Original Message -----
From: "R. A. Hettinga" 
To: "Vinnie Moscaritolo" ; "Randolph Elliott"
; ; "Duncan Goldie-Scot"
; "G. Gruff" ;

Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 11:15 PM
Subject: Re: Electric car an Edsel...


>
> --- begin forwarded text
>
>
> Status: RO
> Delivered-To: fork@example.com
> From: "Adam L. Beberg" 
> To: RossO 
> Cc: 
> Subject: Re: Electric car an Edsel...
> Sender: fork-admin@xent.com
> Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 21:24:47 -0700 (PDT)
>
> On 2 Sep 2002, RossO wrote:
>
> > John Waylan (who was interviewed in Wired a few years back) pulled out a
> > 14.4 second run in the quarter mile (91mph), on a battery pack that
> > hasn't been broken in yet. He expects to break his record next year
> > topping his 13.1sec/99mph run a couple of years ago. He's shooting for a
> > 12 second run.
>
> Battery pack, huh what???
>
> You dont use batteries for a 1/4 mile run, you use capacitors. MANY times
> the energy density, and you can get the energy out fast enough. Note that
> the battery packs are fully swapped out for recharging after each run
> anyway, just like a gas dragster is refueled, so this wouldnt be cheating.
> 200 MPH should be no problem.
>
> - Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
>   http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
>   beberg@mithral.com
>
> --- end forwarded text
>
>
> --
> -----------------
> R. A. Hettinga 
> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
> "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
> [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
> experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
>

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0475.d5afc23cfec40c4cd65198f1e88a193d.eml000066400000000000000000000063101444326627400314270ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep  4 11:42:09 2002
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At 4:12 PM +0000 on 9/3/02, Russell Turpin wrote:


> Of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence,
> only two were in their twenties at the time. Their
> average age was forty-five. There were no teenagers.
> Fourteen were over fifty. Ben Franklin was the oldest,
> at seventy. For the most part, these were angry,
> middle-aged men.

I think it was George Carlin who said something to the effect that young
men in general are boring, but, around fifty, men either have everything
they ever wanted, or have almost nothing of what they wanted; either of
which makes them behave quite interestingly.

Cheers,
RAH


-- 
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups."
--George Carlin

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0476.ef07b997be9a011cba687d11ce274756.eml000066400000000000000000000151031444326627400312120ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep  4 16:52:06 2002
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Glad they finally figured this one out... Note the very careful wording, so
exhaust may be beneficial to ones health as long as you have a glass a day
with some cheese.

Interesting timing, since 16,000 truckers just lost their jobs and dont have
to worry about death from this anymore.

- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com

--------

EPA: Diesel Exhaust Can Cause Cancer
Wed Sep 4, 3:29 AM ET
By H. JOSEF HEBERT, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON (AP) - Inhaling diesel exhausts from large trucks and other
sources over time can cause cancer in humans, an Environmental Protection
Agency ( news - web sites) report concludes after a decade of study.

The EPA finding, released Tuesday, is expected to buttress the government's
push to reduce truck tailpipe emissions by requiring cleaner-burning engines
and diesel fuel with ultra-low sulfur content.

While acknowledging uncertainties about the long-term health effects of
exposure to diesel exhausts, the EPA report said studies involving both
animal tests and occupational exposure suggest strong evidence of a cancer
risk to humans.

"It is reasonable to presume that the hazard extends to environmental
exposure levels" as well, the report said. "The potential human health
effects of diesel exhausts is persuasive, even though assumptions and
uncertainties are involved."

The report mirrors conclusions made previously in documents from various
world health agencies and studies in California and is particularly
significant because the EPA is the federal agency that regulates diesel
emissions under the Clean Air Act.

Some environmentalists have raised concerns recently that the Bush
administration might try to back away from a Clinton-era regulation that
would establish tougher requirements on emissions from large trucks and a
separate rule that virtually would eliminate sulfur from diesel fuel.

EPA Administrator Christie Whitman repeatedly has promised to go ahead with
the tougher truck and diesel rules. Last month, with White House approval,
the EPA rebuffed attempts by some diesel engine manufacturers to postpone
the requirements, approving new penalties against manufacturers who fail to
meet an October deadline for making cleaner-burning truck engines.

The engine rule does not affect emissions from trucks already on the road,
although the separate regulation cutting the amount of sulfur in diesel fuel
is expected to produce pollution reductions.

The EPA's 651-page diesel health assessment did not attempt to estimate the
probability of an individual getting cancer, given certain exposure to
diesel exhaust. Such a risk assessment is commonly made by the EPA when
gauging pollution health concerns.

But in this case, the report said, "the exposure-response data are
considered too uncertain" to produce a confident quantitative estimate of
cancer risk to an individual.

Nevertheless, said the report, the "totality of evidence from human, animal
and other supporting studies" suggests that diesel exhaust "is likely to be
carcinogenic to humans by inhalation, and that this hazard applies to
environmental exposure."

The report reiterated that environmental exposure to diesel exhausts poses
short-term health problems and in the long term has been shown to be a
"chronic respiratory hazard to humans" contributing to increased asthma and
other respiratory problems. In some urban areas diesel exhausts account for
as much as a quarter of the airborne microscopic soot, the report said.

Environmentalists welcomed the study as clear evidence that pollution needs
to be curtailed not only from large trucks but also from off-road
diesel-powered vehicles. EPA spokeswoman Steffanie Bell said the agency
expects to publish a rule early next year dealing with those diesel exhaust
sources, which include farm tractors and construction equipment.

Emily Figdor of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group, a private
environmental organization, said: "To reduce the public's exposure to
harmful diesel emissions, the Bush administration should ... fully implement
clean air standards for diesel trucks and buses and should pass equivalent
standards for diesel construction and farm equipment."

Allen Schaeffer, executive director of the industry group Diesel Technology
Forum, said the EPA's report "focused on the past," whereas "the future is
clean diesel. Diesel trucks and buses built today are more than eight times
cleaner than just a dozen years ago."

The report acknowledged that its findings were based on emissions levels in
the mid-1990s, but said the results continued to be valid because the slow
turnover of truck engines has kept many of these vehicles on the road.



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0477.b7958d4d9cb312c16965859705826a7e.eml000066400000000000000000000100501444326627400307330ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep  4 19:01:04 2002
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From: Tom 
To: fork@example.com
Subject: Kill Your Gods
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Hindus mourn 'monkey god'


By Omer Farooq
BBC reporter in Hyderabad

Hundreds of people have attended the funeral of a monkey which became
revered as a divine incarnation of a Hindu god in the southern Indian
state of Andhra Pradesh.


The monkey was quite old and both its hind legs were paralysed

Animal rights campaigners say the monkey died of starvation and exhaustion
after being trapped in a temple for a month by over-zealous worshippers.

The animal was cremated in Anantapur district, 400 kilometres (250 miles)
south of the state capital, Hyderabad, on Sunday.

It had not eaten for three weeks.

Last rites were performed by priests in the village of Timmiganipally in
the presence of hundreds of devotees who had come to believe that the
monkey was a reincarnation of the Hindu monkey god, Hanuman.

Garlanded

One animal rights activist said his group's efforts to save the monkey had
failed because of the blind faith of the people.


The monkey's death came a day after he and others tried to move the animal
out of the temple, but were prevented by villagers.

The monkey, which was found perched on top of an idol of Hanuman a month
ago, attracted hundreds of devotees every day from surrounding villages,
as well as from the neighbouring state of Karnataka.

Devotees showered the monkey with fruit and flowers and worshipped it
around the clock.

'Exploited'

Locals said they believed that Lord Hanuman was visiting the village, as
the temple had stopped daily rituals after a dispute between two groups of
residents.

But animal rights campaigners complained that the animal was being
mistreated.

They filed a petition in the state's High Court saying the monkey had been
forcibly confined in the temple.

The group also alleged that people's religious feelings were being
exploited to make money.

The court then ordered the local administration to rescue the monkey - but
villagers prevented officials from taking him for treatment in time.




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0478.41ae16e74ab25e02113c5da21efd2804.eml000066400000000000000000000110171444326627400311510ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep  4 19:01:08 2002
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From: sateesh narahari 
Subject: Re: Kill Your Gods
To: Tom , fork@example.com
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Hindus got 3 billion gods..... So, losing one is no
big deal, really....

Its just sick that they killed an innocent animal,
which doesn't even know the concept of "God".

Sateesh
--- Tom  wrote:
> Hindus mourn 'monkey god'
> 
> 
> By Omer Farooq
> BBC reporter in Hyderabad
> 
> Hundreds of people have attended the funeral of a
> monkey which became
> revered as a divine incarnation of a Hindu god in
> the southern Indian
> state of Andhra Pradesh.
> 
> 
> The monkey was quite old and both its hind legs were
> paralysed
> 
> Animal rights campaigners say the monkey died of
> starvation and exhaustion
> after being trapped in a temple for a month by
> over-zealous worshippers.
> 
> The animal was cremated in Anantapur district, 400
> kilometres (250 miles)
> south of the state capital, Hyderabad, on Sunday.
> 
> It had not eaten for three weeks.
> 
> Last rites were performed by priests in the village
> of Timmiganipally in
> the presence of hundreds of devotees who had come to
> believe that the
> monkey was a reincarnation of the Hindu monkey god,
> Hanuman.
> 
> Garlanded
> 
> One animal rights activist said his group's efforts
> to save the monkey had
> failed because of the blind faith of the people.
> 
> 
> The monkey's death came a day after he and others
> tried to move the animal
> out of the temple, but were prevented by villagers.
> 
> The monkey, which was found perched on top of an
> idol of Hanuman a month
> ago, attracted hundreds of devotees every day from
> surrounding villages,
> as well as from the neighbouring state of Karnataka.
> 
> Devotees showered the monkey with fruit and flowers
> and worshipped it
> around the clock.
> 
> 'Exploited'
> 
> Locals said they believed that Lord Hanuman was
> visiting the village, as
> the temple had stopped daily rituals after a dispute
> between two groups of
> residents.
> 
> But animal rights campaigners complained that the
> animal was being
> mistreated.
> 
> They filed a petition in the state's High Court
> saying the monkey had been
> forcibly confined in the temple.
> 
> The group also alleged that people's religious
> feelings were being
> exploited to make money.
> 
> The court then ordered the local administration to
> rescue the monkey - but
> villagers prevented officials from taking him for
> treatment in time.
> 
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0479.0af91f2b2adbdfb00edf424dfeedfdaf.eml000066400000000000000000000132321444326627400321300ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep  4 19:11:32 2002
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From: "Jim Whitehead" 
To: "FoRK" 
Subject: CD player UI for toddlers
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So, like many young children, my daughter Tatum (age 21 months) *really*
likes music. She also likes to have control over her environment, and this
means she wants to be the one putting CDs into the CD player, and getting
the music playing.

By watching Tatum, I've discovered that you can learn a lot about UI design
from watching 21-month-olds use technology. There is definitely a market
niche for a toddler-friendly CD/MP3 player.

The CD player we have combines play and pause in a single button, but
doesn't provide *instantaneous* feedback that the button was pushed, instead
requiring you to wait until the music starts, 5-10 seconds. This is a UI
disaster. Since Tatum doesn't get feedback right away, she presses the
button again, thereby pausing the CD before it even plays. She'll only ever
get music if she presses the button an odd number of times. This happens a
surprising amount of the time, since she eventually hits the button again
when the music doesn't play.

For toddlers, pressing play must cause the music to start immediately,
within half a second, for the toddler to get the causality and not press the
button multiple times. As well, pressing the button multiple times shouldn't
change the semantics, like an elevator button. No matter how many times you
press, the elevator still comes to that floor. The play button needs to be
the same.

The back-hinged door mechanism feeding the CD into the player is also a UI
disaster for Tatum. Since the door hinges on the back, Tatum has to angle
CDs to put them in, and take them out. Putting CDs in isn't much of a
problem, but taking them out is. Since Tatum grabs CDs by the back edge,
that edge comes out first, hitting the lid. Tatum eventually forces and
wiggles the CD out, a process that's hard on the CD and the player (but
which hasn't yet resulted in the CD player being broken). Surprisingly, it
hasn't been a problem getting the CD hole onto the spindle -- Tatum seems to
understand this concept, and the CD load area geometry naturally guides the
CD.

Tatum's CD player also plays tapes and has FM radio. For a toddler, this is
a mistake. Tatum doesn't understand the need to flick a switch to put the
player into a specific mode. She understands putting a CD in, and pressing
the play button. She sometimes understands the buttons for advancing a song,
but uses them erratically. As well, the radio feature has both FM mono and
FM stero, a distinction totally lost on Tatum. Tatum only understands the
binary distinction of music/no music.

What would the ideal toddler CD player be like? It would immediately start
playing a CD after it was loaded. As soon as the CD load door was closed, it
would give some audible feedback. It would have a single large play button.
The other typical CD controls would be larger than normal, but at least half
the size of the play button, and located far away from the play button, so
there is no chance of them getting accidentally pressed on the way to play.
The play button would be a bright color that is different from the color of
the player, and different from the color of the other CD control keys. The
device would only play CDs, no other functions. The CD load area would flip
open at least 80 degrees. It should be small, approachable for a toddler. It
should be possible to repeatedly drop the player from a height of 1-2'
without affecting the player.

- Jim




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0480.ac223ce8c5be563214bdc8e3af2a18b6.eml000066400000000000000000000064471444326627400314130ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep  5 11:30:26 2002
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To: "Jim Whitehead" 
Cc: "FoRK" 
Subject: Re: CD player UI for toddlers
References: 
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
X-Home-Page: http://www.teledyn.com
Organization: TCI Business Innovation through Open Source Computing
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Our preschoolers (2 and 4) use Winamp with a Pokemon skin.  It's the
2-yr-old who figured out he could put it into a sidebar menu so all
he need do is click there to launch their favourite MP3 playlist.

What /we/ need is a good "barely literate" email program.  Years ago
the university of Hawaii had a word processor that included a
voice-assist and also would pop up menus for common completions as
words were typed; even further back there was a DOS shareware editor
that did that latter function extremely well (targetted at the
handicapped).  With just those little bits of assists, maybe some
clever use of pictograms too, I bet kindergarten kids could handle
email.

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy  TeleDynamics Communications Inc
 Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0481.3a50c09230e74743965ddec5ad754fa6.eml000066400000000000000000000046241444326627400311270ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep  5 11:30:27 2002
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This just blew my mind:
http://www.earthviewer.com/

The detail of my neighborhood -- even my building -- is unbelievable.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0482.b16742fbfb4ed41734f06279232dd8b0.eml000066400000000000000000000060051444326627400311150ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep  5 11:30:34 2002
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Shouldn't a politician know not to tell the truth? Odds he's impeached by
next Monday? [ob: no-clue-how-they-remove-mayors-in-italy]

Ouch. Ouch. Ouch.

------------

Get Sexier, Keep Husbands, Mayor Tells Wives
Wed Sep 4, 9:14 AM ET

MISSAGLIA, Italy (Reuters) - Husband's eyes wandering? Make yourself sexier.
At least that's the solution proposed by an Italian mayor -- and a woman
mayor at that.

Wives in the northern town of Missaglia had complained to mayor Marta
Casiraghi about a young woman who sunbathed topless on her terrace.

They complained that the men in the town of some 7,000 people were spending
too much time ogling, so they asked Casiraghi to order the woman to put her
clothes back on.

But the mayor, far from sympathizing, told the wives to get sexy if they
wanted to keep their men. "The girl was very pretty and was soaking up some
sun. Topless sunbathing is largely tolerated and widespread nowadays.
There's nothing we can do," Casiraghi told Il Nuovo, a web-based newspaper.

"Instead, I'd advise the wives to play their rival at her own game -- make
themselves more beautiful."


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0483.fd69b8130b575cf7522607fc37d2549c.eml000066400000000000000000000071341444326627400310630ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep  5 11:30:33 2002
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Jim Whitehead wrote:

>Great, this is half of what I'd need to become Spider Man! Now all I need to
>figure out is how to do that spider web shooting thing.
>

Heheheh... So becomming a university professor was your second career 
choice?  ;-)

Seriously though (or not, as the case may be), The Amazing Spiderman had 
many other abilities to help him out. Most notable, perhaps, was his 
'spidey strength' and 'spidey senses'. The strength to weight ratio of a 
spider is so high that Spiderman is able to throw a bus several city 
blocks with little effort. His endurance is similarly enhanced as well.

As for the spidey senses, well they're really great, but AFAIK not 
really well explained in the comic series. Spiders have multiple eyes, 
ears, noses and tongues which Peter Parker did not visibly have. There 
have been a few attempts to explain his heightened reflexes, from the 
biological to hidden methamphetamine use, but none seem to do the spidey 
sense justice... I seem to recall Spiderman being able to detect the 
presence of well concealed weapons and even sense evil-doers while they 
were in their street clothes. Perhaps the spidey senses are the result 
of some sort of quantum entanglement?


Elias


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0484.9c63b894f85b12f32ad5e5b97cd5c49c.eml000066400000000000000000000141131444326627400313050ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep  5 11:31:06 2002
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Misc rants about finding jobs, java vs C, what makes a good programmer, etc.


Okay, hmm, I thought twice about this, but what the hey, jobs are hard to
come by. There's a company hiring in Mountain View, looking for a few good
hackers, no Java, no GUI, not even C++ -- just C and Linux and networking
and good old stuff like that. They just raised a wad of money and they're
looking for a few "really good programmers", says the CTO. I know him --
very smart guy. Drives too fast, though, for what that's worth.

Joe Bob says "check it out". I'd be happy to pass on your resume, or you can
send it straight to them. Probably won't matter if I pass it on, since I
don't know you guys anyway...

http://www.netli.com

-- Sherry.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph S. Barrera III [mailto:joe@barrera.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 8:58 AM
> To: Adam L. Beberg
> Cc: fork@example.com
> Subject: Re: Java is for kiddies
> 
> 
> Adam L. Beberg wrote:
>  >>> Forwarding me stuff from a list is hardly handing me a job.
>  >>
>  >> I was talking about the open reqs at Kana (the company I 
> work for).
>  >>  Oh, but programming in Java is beneath you.
>  >
>  > Nope just lacking years and years of it. For some silly 
> reason people
>  > always want things to be reliable, fast, and 
> cross-platform so all my
>  > employers have forced me to code in C :)
> 
> C is more reliable than Java??
> 
> As for cross-platform, C exists on more platforms, but a Java program
> is much easier to move from one platform to another. So I'm not sure
> what you mean.
> 
> I'm not trying to fight a language war, but I'm puzzled by the depth
> of your anti-Java hatred.
> 
>  > I know lots of high school
>  > kiddies with plenty of Java tho, not having to teach people about
>  > pointers or optimization or anything shaves years off the 
> coder boot
>  > time. I'll send them your way when they graduate.
> 
> Pointers. So a language has to have pointers to be real? And 
> references
> don't count, I gather. What's so great about pointers? Why do you
> miss them? If your doing embedded stuff, fine, yes, you need the
> performance and control over memory that C provides. Probably.
> But if your implementing tier N-1 of a tier N system, and pounding
> against a database, then Java is OFTEN a very reasonable choice.
> Especially if you want that system to run without leaking memory.
> 
> Optimization. Who says you can't optimize Java? I can and have,
> and there are good tools that allow you to do it (I use OptimizeIt).
> But usually I find myself optimizing (reducing) database accesses
> instead. I sped one part of the system up by a factor of ten by
> grouping more operations into fewer transactions.
> 
> But this is beside the point. If you have decent C++ experience, and
> have poked around in Java, you should be able to convince most
> employers that you can be trusted writing Java. That's what I did --
> I mean, I joined Kana from Microsoft, and I didn't exactly write
> a lot of Java code at Microsoft.
> 
>  > I'm not displeased you're trying to help, just frustrated that
>  > employers can demand such rediculous combinations of skills with
>  > insane years of experience.
> 
> I don't think I've ever interviewed at a place where I actually
> met all the prerequisites. Do you just give up when you don't?
> 
>  > Interview tommorow with Kodak, doing I have no idea what as the
>  > recruiter isnt even sure, but cross your fingers it wont require 10
>  > years of Java and 5 years of Windows/IA-64's device driver 
> experience
>  > (both common requirements).
> 
> I wish you best of luck, and I apologies for being a bitch.
> But God DAMN, you piss me off sometimes. My son occasionally
> displays your "can't-do" attitude and I do my damnest to
> get him to reverse course.
> 
> - Joe
> 
> 

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0485.4657c96dd864d02d6273cb268b631015.eml000066400000000000000000000071241444326627400307130ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep  5 11:31:10 2002
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Someone needs to tell the mayor about this:
http://www.cb-2000.com/
kinkily yours,
Cindy

On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Adam L. Beberg wrote:

> Shouldn't a politician know not to tell the truth? Odds he's impeached by
> next Monday? [ob: no-clue-how-they-remove-mayors-in-italy]
> 
> Ouch. Ouch. Ouch.
> 
> ------------
> 
> Get Sexier, Keep Husbands, Mayor Tells Wives
> Wed Sep 4, 9:14 AM ET
> 
> MISSAGLIA, Italy (Reuters) - Husband's eyes wandering? Make yourself sexier.
> At least that's the solution proposed by an Italian mayor -- and a woman
> mayor at that.
> 
> Wives in the northern town of Missaglia had complained to mayor Marta
> Casiraghi about a young woman who sunbathed topless on her terrace.
> 
> They complained that the men in the town of some 7,000 people were spending
> too much time ogling, so they asked Casiraghi to order the woman to put her
> clothes back on.
> 
> But the mayor, far from sympathizing, told the wives to get sexy if they
> wanted to keep their men. "The girl was very pretty and was soaking up some
> sun. Topless sunbathing is largely tolerated and widespread nowadays.
> There's nothing we can do," Casiraghi told Il Nuovo, a web-based newspaper.
> 
> "Instead, I'd advise the wives to play their rival at her own game -- make
> themselves more beautiful."
> 

-- 
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0486.62b08ccbd58add2e635494c114f1173b.eml000066400000000000000000000057301444326627400311770ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep  5 11:31:13 2002
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SL> 
SL> Misc rants about finding jobs, java vs C, what makes a good programmer, etc.
SL> 

SL> Okay, hmm, I thought twice about this, but what the hey, jobs are hard to
SL> come by. There's a company hiring in Mountain View, looking for a few good


I give Adam an hour or so to come up with an adequate number of
excuses as to why -this- job isn't worth it.  :)

GO Adam GO!


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0487.dfff66b5d13f537cc4535d860d297c0c.eml000066400000000000000000000045441444326627400313060ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep  5 11:31:16 2002
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From: Tom 
To: fork@example.com
Subject: Adam dont job for no one, see.
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A groys gesheft zol er hobn mit shroyre vus er hot, zol men bay im nit
fregn, un vos men fregt zol er nisht hobn, and if that aint the truth
nutin is.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0488.8fddac859ba93d27a041fe770be65d29.eml000066400000000000000000000061531444326627400313660ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep  5 11:31:18 2002
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Whitehead" 

>
> For toddlers, pressing play must cause the music to start immediately,
> within half a second, for the toddler to get the causality and not press
the
> button multiple times.
Or some sound indicating that the music will start real soon now.

> As well, pressing the button multiple times shouldn't
> change the semantics, like an elevator button. No matter how many times
you
> press, the elevator still comes to that floor. The play button needs to be
> the same.
Idempotency everywhere you look...


> What would the ideal toddler CD player be like? It would immediately start
> playing a CD after it was loaded.
It'd be an MP3 player with solid state storage... instant on.



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0489.73eb492555409d2c07aed7c524845d8c.eml000066400000000000000000000130251444326627400310620ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep  5 11:31:06 2002
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To: Elias Sinderson 
Cc: Jim Whitehead , FoRK 
Subject: Re: Gecko adhesion finally sussed.
References: 
    <3D768684.30702@cse.ucsc.edu>
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
X-Home-Page: http://www.teledyn.com
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>>>>> "E" == Elias Sinderson  writes:

    E> ... The strength to weight ratio of a spider is so high
    E> that Spiderman is able to throw a bus several city blocks with
    E> little effort. His endurance is similarly enhanced as well.

Could this be as simple as a modified molecular structure where the
humanoid cells are in fact exo-skeletally structured with more atoms
per cubic angstrom to achieve the distance-squared tensile strength
enhancements we find when we introduce smaller metal atoms between the
lattice packed grid of iron atoms to create steel?  

This 'steel-effect' might give bone structure and tendons dramatically
(several orders of magnitude) more tensile strength without the need
to significantly increase the weight (like magnesium-alloy or
carbon-fiber weight compared to iron, Spidey could even be way under
weight).  Only increasing tensile strength could accommodate the
mobility and leverage feats since bones are actually formed from
bubbles of organic material hydrolically assisted, tensile strength
cross-sectionally would give his frame the strength to withstand the
muscular enhancement.

    E> As for the spidey senses, well they're really great, but AFAIK
    E> not really well explained in the comic series. 

If the same close-packing gap-filling arachne-molecular structure
modification occurs in neural tissues, and there'd be no reason to
think that these would grow differently from bones and tendons, then
what we are seeing in spidey sense is no more than the heightened
cerebral functions due to shorter/faster/stronger synapses throughout
the entire nervous system.  

Since we know dogs and cats measure human emotions by smell, clearly
hearing the heartbeats, and other subtle clues within their normal
sensory ranges (but seem mystical to us) ...  for Peter Parker,
everything from air currents on his facial-hairs to extremely subtle
hormone smells might coallesce into a general gestalt of Spidey-Sense;
don't forget that he'd acquired this ability in adolescence and thus
would lack any cultural or even pathological basis to explain the
heightened awareness to himself in anything but mystical terms. We
know from issue #1 that his collision-avoidance reflex response time
was far swifter than his cognitive awareness since he 'found' himself
already stuck to the tree when the bicycle was already past and hence
his disorientation ("You ok, Mister?") as if it was a hallucination.

Hmmm ... it may even be physio-psychologically interesting to examine
if Peter Parker's personal quandries arose _because_ his physiological
'Spidey' infrastructure had been advanced whereas his psychological
perception of his self had not, ie, "Peter" was not "Spiderman" but
just the "driver of the bus".  Only, unlike ourselves, he found his
self driving a body-vehicle not evolutionarily matched to his
cognitive time-scales.

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy  TeleDynamics Communications Inc
 Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0490.f05cd53148e296861dd5c9f5df9a6225.eml000066400000000000000000000073061444326627400311470ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep  5 11:31:38 2002
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From: "Gordon Mohr" 
To: "FoRK" 
References: 
    
Subject: Re: CD player UI for toddlers
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Mr Fork writes:
  Jim Whitehead writes:
> > For toddlers, pressing play must cause the music to start immediately,
> > within half a second, for the toddler to get the causality and not press
> the
> > button multiple times.
> Or some sound indicating that the music will start real soon now.

A tonal countdown would be nice.

> > What would the ideal toddler CD player be like? It would immediately start
> > playing a CD after it was loaded.
> It'd be an MP3 player with solid state storage... instant on.

Hmm. Seems like every CD player should include the
capability to rip, encode, and cache the last few CDs 
inserted. 

Playback would then never need to face seek delays... 
after the initial ripping, the only use of the laser 
pickup would be recognizing which CD is inserted --
which might be doable faster than a seek-and-start-at-
first-track operation.

You could also take the CD out while it is "playing".

Hmm. If the CD is still in the cache, maybe you don't
even have to insert it. Or choose it from a step-through
UI. Instead, you just wave it at an electronic eye of
some sort... and the player recognizes it from the 
silkscreening. Kids would like that. "Play this," they'd
say, facing the CD at the player, and the player would
start immediately.

- Gordon



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0491.4d902a53799cc4c52b72c0c41367a96b.eml000066400000000000000000000050561444326627400310460ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep  5 11:31:41 2002
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From: Tom 
To: Gordon Mohr 
Cc: FoRK 
Subject: Re: CD player UI for toddlers
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On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Gordon Mohr wrote:

--]Hmm. Seems like every CD player should include the
--]capability to rip, encode, and cache the last few CDs
--]inserted.

There are companies doing just that, but given the current state of the
DRm sceen and the litigiouness of the RIAA, who wants to go down like
circus seals?




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0492.3aa3aaa0ac9343fd1aa11864e8c281b1.eml000066400000000000000000000062521444326627400313060ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep  5 11:31:23 2002
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From: Tom 
To: "Mr. FoRK" 
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Subject: Re: CD player UI for toddlers
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On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Mr. FoRK wrote:
--]It'd be an MP3 player with solid state storage... instant on.


Getting new media on is a bit out of the reach of the kindala. With a CD
solution you hand em a disc and in it goes.

Tradeoffs abound.

Heather got a CD player when she was 5. Even though it was a crappy
handmedown it worked great other than the batterys poping out..bad bad ui
there. Her next one was a store bought.  Its an all Audio player, no mp3
decoders for her yet. I wanted to do the bottom line Volt but momala put
the kabash on anything costing over 30 bucks. heck I had to scrounge ebay
to get her a palm m100 for about 25 bucks.

The only hitch is new music. Upshot is we spend time going over usenet
listing togther:)-

Its a happy family.

Now for Benjamin, yea id love to have something like the amazingly cool
Fisher Price My First (cd, casset, vasectomy, dirtybomb) products. Perhaps
the My First Cd might work...time to let ebay do the walking.




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To: "Jim Whitehead" 
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Subject: Re: CD player UI for toddlers
References: 
From: Karl Anderson 
Organization: Ape Mgt.
In-Reply-To: "Jim Whitehead"'s message of "Wed, 4 Sep 2002 11:03:03 -0700"
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"Jim Whitehead"  writes:

> The CD player we have combines play and pause in a single button, but
> doesn't provide *instantaneous* feedback that the button was pushed, instead
> requiring you to wait until the music starts, 5-10 seconds. This is a UI
> disaster. Since Tatum doesn't get feedback right away, she presses the
> button again, thereby pausing the CD before it even plays. She'll only ever
> get music if she presses the button an odd number of times. This happens a
> surprising amount of the time, since she eventually hits the button again
> when the music doesn't play.

Nice to hear that somebody else does this too.

-- 
Karl Anderson      kra@monkey.org           http://www.monkey.org/~kra/

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On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Tom wrote:
 
> A groys gesheft zol er hobn mit shroyre vus er hot, zol men bay im nit
> fregn, un vos men fregt zol er nisht hobn, and if that aint the truth
> nutin is.

A nice curse. Don't get "shroyre", though.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0495.5c4fb5aab57f610e00c4d3b951216f16.eml000066400000000000000000000065721444326627400311750ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep  5 11:31:43 2002
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Subject: Re: Re[2]: Java is for kiddies
References: <80CE2C46294CD61198BA00508BADCA830FD384@mis-exchange.mv.timesten.com>
    <143118772134.20020904230741@magnesium.net>
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bitbitch@magnesium.net writes:

> SL> 
> SL> Misc rants about finding jobs, java vs C, what makes a good programmer, etc.
> SL> 
> 
> SL> Okay, hmm, I thought twice about this, but what the hey, jobs are hard to
> SL> come by. There's a company hiring in Mountain View, looking for a few good
> 
> 
> I give Adam an hour or so to come up with an adequate number of
> excuses as to why -this- job isn't worth it.  :)

http://www.netli.com/careers/index.htm

>* Along with your resume, please answer this question: What does this �C� statement do? #define XY(s, m) (&((s *)0)->m)

Besides provide job security?

-- 
Karl Anderson      kra@monkey.org           http://www.monkey.org/~kra/

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0496.397e015dabee7ac3c6e655ad9bf66052.eml000066400000000000000000000067411444326627400313600ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep  5 17:23:04 2002
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Reply-To: "Bill Kearney" 
From: "Bill Kearney" 
To: 
References: <20020905132642.29383.47386.Mailman@lair.xent.com>
Subject: Re: CD player UI for toddlers
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> Now for Benjamin, yea id love to have something like the amazingly cool
> Fisher Price My First (cd, casset, vasectomy, dirtybomb) products. Perhaps
> the My First Cd might work...time to let ebay do the walking.

Sony makes such a line of products.

My father was legendary for his abilty to break things.  His 'thumbs of death'
would rival anything a toddler could do to devices.  After countless numbers of
Walkman devices having their lids broken or buttons pressed into oblivion I
found the Sony devices.  I got him a "My First Sony" (be afraid of the
marketing) CD player.   It was /fire engine red/ but was completely
indestructible.  I hacked a headphone jack into it and gave it to him.  He
complained of it's looks but used it nonetheless.  I also gave him a pack of
headphones as there's no such things indestuctible headphones that aren't
obscenely bulky.

Now that we're riding up the curve of an ever increasing geezer population, how
soon before device makers get wise?  Not to be morbid, but would the marketing
be "My Last Sony"?  

-Bill Kearney

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To: Eirikur Hallgrimsson 
Cc: FoRK 
Subject: Re: Ouch...
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Eirikur said:
> This incident is an interesting microcosm of how society and law develop.
> The women of this town are attempting to regulate competition.  The social 
> standards mechanisms (I expect that shame has already been tried) have 
> failed, so legal is next. 

The point could also be to hassle the sunbather for reasons not given in
the story.  The sunbather has probably pissed off the complainers in other
ways, too.

Law and society are wholeheartedly trivial.  Big fuzzy concepts like
"sluts vs. moms" are convenient vehicles for petty disputes as often as
not.

- Lucas



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From: "Bill Stoddard" 
To: "Fork@Xent.Com" 
Subject: RE: Re[2]: Java is for kiddies
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of Karl
> Anderson
> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 3:50 AM
> To: bitbitch@magnesium.net
> Cc: 'fork@example.com'
> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Java is for kiddies
>
>
> bitbitch@magnesium.net writes:
>
> > SL> 
> > SL> Misc rants about finding jobs, java vs C, what makes a good
> programmer, etc.
> > SL> 
> > 
> > SL> Okay, hmm, I thought twice about this, but what the hey,
> jobs are hard to
> > SL> come by. There's a company hiring in Mountain View, looking
> for a few good
> > 
> >
> > I give Adam an hour or so to come up with an adequate number of
> > excuses as to why -this- job isn't worth it.  :)
>
> http://www.netli.com/careers/index.htm
>
> >* Along with your resume, please answer this question: What does
> this C statement do? #define XY(s, m) (&((s *)0)->m)
>
> Besides provide job security?

This is more useful...

#define CONTAINING_RECORD(address, type, field) ((type *)( \
                                                  (PCHAR)(address) - \
                                                  (PCHAR)(&((type
*)0)->field)))

Bill


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0499.48dbec905e8b9da9434b9802132576c1.eml000066400000000000000000000133771444326627400310740ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 11:41:02 2002
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From: CDale 
To: bitbitch@magnesium.net
Cc: "Adam L. Beberg" , 
Subject: Re[2]: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
In-Reply-To: <155207191859.20020905234116@magnesium.net>
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I dunno, BB.  Women who like to be thought of this way should have the 
right to choose to be treated this way.  Men too...  ahem.  (:  My boy 
cleans, washes clothes, cooks, fixes stuff, etc, and works the same number 
of hours I do, sometimes more, if he has to catch up with me.  (:  I 
close him because he is industrious and creative, and because he 
unfailingly makes my bed the minute I get out of it.  And boy #2 will be 
here soon to help boy #1 with other things such as pedicures,  backrubs, 
and sure, fucking.  LOL! (along with the aforementioned "chores") Adam can 
have his cake and eat it too, if he can only find the right girl who has 
the same beliefs about gender  roles that he has. Of course, he has NO 
clue where to look, so we will be constantly laughing at him while he 
stumbles around in the dark.  
Cindy
P.S. the numbers do not in any way indicate importance or favor -- only 
the order in which they move into my house.  -smiles at chris-
P.S. #2.  I'm moving.   Going to New Orleans.  Can't handle any more cab 
driving.  The summer sucked here on the MS Gulf Coast, instead of rocking 
like it normally does.  Wish me luck.  I'm going to look for another 
computer job.  Le Sigh.  (:  

On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:

> Hello Adam,
> 
> Thursday, September 05, 2002, 11:33:18 PM, you wrote:
> 
> 
> ALB> So, you're saying that product bundling works? Good point.
> 
> Sometimes I wish I was still in CA.  You deserve a good beating every
> so often...  (anyone else want to do the honors?)
> 
> ALB> And how is this any different from "normal" marriage exactly? Other then
> ALB> that the woman not only gets a man, but one in a country where both she and
> ALB> her offspring will have actual opportunities? Oh and the lack of
> ALB> "de-feminized, over-sized, self-centered, mercenary-minded" choices?
> 
> Mmkay.  For the nth time Adam, we don't live in the land of
> Adam-fantasy.  Women actually are allowed to do things productive,
> independent and entirely free of their male counterparts.  They aren't
> forced to cook and clean and merely be sexual vessels.   Sometimes,
> and this will come as a shock to you, no doubt, men and women even
> find -love- (which is the crucial distinction between this system) and
> they marry one another for the satisfaction of being together.   I
> know, far-fetched and idealistically crazy as it is, but such things
> do happen.   I can guarantee you, if my mother was approached by my
> father, and 25 years ago, he commented on her cleaning ability as a
> motivator for marrying her, we would not be having this conversation
> now.
> 
> If guys still have silly antequated ideas about 'women's role' then
> their opportunities for finding women _will_ be scarce.   Again, these
> situations are great, provided everyone is aware that the relationship
> is a contractual one -- he wants a maid, a dog and a prostitute he
> doesn't have to pay, and she wants a country that isn't impoverished
> and teeming with AIDS.  A contract, versus a true love-interest
> marriage.
> 
> Egh.  I really need to stop analyzing your posts to this extent.   I
> blame law school and my cat.
> 
> -BB
> 
> ALB> - Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
> ALB>   http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
> ALB>   beberg@mithral.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn


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From: CDale 
To: "Adam L. Beberg" 
Cc: bitbitch@magnesium.net, 
Subject: Re[2]: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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It's a fair trade, IMO.  Same for some mid-east bloke who's dying to marry 
American so he can start his own business.  But BB is right.  When the 
thrill is gone, she should take his shit.  LOL
CindyDrinking

On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Adam L. Beberg wrote:

> On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:
> 
> > Again, these situations are great, provided everyone is aware that the
> > relationship is a contractual one -- he wants a maid, a dog and a
> > prostitute he doesn't have to pay, and she wants a country that isn't
> > impoverished and teeming with AIDS.
> 
> You assume that they just match people up and marry them off, and neither is
> attracted to the other, which is not the case. Even this has arranged
> marrage beat by a long way.
> 
> Males gets: A wife for a while, and if they actually like each other, for a
> long time.
> Female gets: Into Britan, out of a country with no real rights for women, no
> opportunities for her or her children, out of the polution, AIDS, and an
> uncountable number of scary tropical diseases. Not to mention in most cases
> living conditions that us spoiled Americans cannot even comprehend.
> 
> Yea, the women is definately getting tha bad end of the deal here.
> 
> You're so easy to taunt :)
> 
> - Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
>   http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
>   beberg@mithral.com
> 

-- 
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0501.343d33b8816a38b17fa642fbf07457fc.eml000066400000000000000000000043361444326627400311210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 11:41:19 2002
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Someone has taken it.  Mostly newtel users.  I think we can take the.
C

-- 
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0502.9e78d7d003ceeef52c70ac7e7b786ef9.eml000066400000000000000000000052671444326627400314540ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 11:41:26 2002
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Adam Beberg writes:
> Shouldn't a politician know not to tell the truth? Odds he's impeached by

As the article you forwarded explained in the second line of text,
this politician is a woman.

> next Monday? [ob: no-clue-how-they-remove-mayors-in-italy]

ob: no-clue-full-stop, as in nearly all Adam Beberg posts.

-- 
       Kragen Sitaker     
Edsger Wybe Dijkstra died in August of 2002.  The world has lost a great
man.  See http://advogato.org/person/raph/diary.html?start=252 and
http://www.kode-fu.com/geek/2002_08_04_archive.shtml for details.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0503.5364d68940343b854595410487aaa1ba.eml000066400000000000000000000064371444326627400306230ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 11:41:30 2002
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On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:

> Again, these situations are great, provided everyone is aware that the
> relationship is a contractual one -- he wants a maid, a dog and a
> prostitute he doesn't have to pay, and she wants a country that isn't
> impoverished and teeming with AIDS.

You assume that they just match people up and marry them off, and neither is
attracted to the other, which is not the case. Even this has arranged
marrage beat by a long way.

Males gets: A wife for a while, and if they actually like each other, for a
long time.
Female gets: Into Britan, out of a country with no real rights for women, no
opportunities for her or her children, out of the polution, AIDS, and an
uncountable number of scary tropical diseases. Not to mention in most cases
living conditions that us spoiled Americans cannot even comprehend.

Yea, the women is definately getting tha bad end of the deal here.

You're so easy to taunt :)

- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0504.0e89cec7d885514336483e016e07ccec.eml000066400000000000000000000135021444326627400311270ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 11:41:33 2002
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Adam Beberg writes:
> On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Kragen Sitaker wrote:
> > Unix acquired nonblocking I/O in the form of select() about 23 years
> > ago, and Solaris has had the particular aio_* calls we are discussing
> > for many years.
> 
> select() "scaling" is a joke at best, and I know you know that. poll() is
> only a bit better.

Not only do I know that, the post to which you were responding
explained that, with somewhat more detail than "a joke".  As you
should know, but evidently don't, poll() isn't even "a bit better" ---
in fact, it's about an order of magnitude worse --- for dense file
descriptor sets, which is the normal case.  (Except on operating
systems where select() isn't a system call but a library routine that
calls poll().)

> > Very few applications need the aio_* calls --- essentially only
> > high-performance RDBMS servers even benefit from them at all, and
> > most of those have been faking it fine for a while with multiple
> > threads or processes.  This just provides a modicum of extra
> > performance.
> 
> Wrong, it makes a huge difference in even what I consider small programs.

Why don't you explain this in more detail?

> > Although I don't have a copy of the spec handy, I think the aio_* APIs
> > come from the POSIX spec IEEE Std 1003.1-1990, section 6.7.9, which is
> > 13 years old, and which I think documented then-current practice.
> > They might be even older than that.
> 
> Yes, SGI has a patch to the linux kernel to implement the aio_ interfaces,
> but it's still not built in, who knows when it will be. The point is it's
> not portable in either case.

You originally said:

  Could it be? After 20 years without this feature UNIX finally
  catches up to Windows and has I/O that doesnt [sic] totally suck for
  nontrivial apps? No way!

The point --- my point, the point I was discussing; please don't try
to tell me you were trying to make a different point, because I don't
care --- is that you had no clue what you were talking about; Unix
hasn't been without this feature, and in fact has had it since you
were in elementary school, and operating systems without it don't
"totally suck for nontrivial apps".

For what it's worth, glibc has actually implemented the aio_* calls
for a while, just in a way that doesn't scale to large numbers of
concurrent I/O requests.  I find references to the glibc
implementation as far back as 1999 and glibc 2.1.1, and I could
probably find much earlier references if I had time:
http://sources.redhat.com/ml/libc-hacker/1999-12/msg00070.html

(more details at
http://www.atnf.csiro.au/people/rgooch/linux/docs/io-events.html;
details on the SGI patch are at
http://oss.sgi.com/projects/kaio/faq.html)

> > Unix has been multiprocess since 1969, and most Unix implementations
> > have supported multithreading for a decade or more.
> 
> And most UNIX is still kinda-sorta supporting the pthreads (POSIX)
> interface, each in their own 7/8 implementation. You're safe if you
> stick to the basics.

Your original complaint was that Unix didn't do multithreading or
multiprogramming well.  Now that I've pointed out how obviously
idiotic that claim is, you've amended your complaint: now, although
individual Unixes do these things well, you complain that their
implementations are not entirely conformant with the POSIX threads
specification.  Well, that's probably true, but I haven't written
pthreads programs in C much myself, so I can't confirm it from my own
experience.  But, even if it's true, it's not a very good reason to
prefer Windows.

I'm sure you can provide examples of bugs in particular threading
implementations.  Spare us.  Just shut up.

-- 
       Kragen Sitaker     
Edsger Wybe Dijkstra died in August of 2002.  The world has lost a great
man.  See http://advogato.org/person/raph/diary.html?start=252 and
http://www.kode-fu.com/geek/2002_08_04_archive.shtml for details.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0505.724c1270fd6c1382c93cc208c05dc9dc.eml000066400000000000000000000055771444326627400312020ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 11:41:37 2002
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On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:

> Yet another case where 'marriage' is actually an inappropriate word
> for these guys.  What they want is 'housekeeper' 'dog' and
> 'prostitute'.

So, you're saying that product bundling works? Good point.

And how is this any different from "normal" marriage exactly? Other then
that the woman not only gets a man, but one in a country where both she and
her offspring will have actual opportunities? Oh and the lack of
"de-feminized, over-sized, self-centered, mercenary-minded" choices?


- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0506.8ebe39ef91080b2445bef0118d7c9b0c.eml000066400000000000000000000113651444326627400312630ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 11:41:40 2002
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Hello Adam,

Thursday, September 05, 2002, 11:33:18 PM, you wrote:


ALB> So, you're saying that product bundling works? Good point.

Sometimes I wish I was still in CA.  You deserve a good beating every
so often...  (anyone else want to do the honors?)

ALB> And how is this any different from "normal" marriage exactly? Other then
ALB> that the woman not only gets a man, but one in a country where both she and
ALB> her offspring will have actual opportunities? Oh and the lack of
ALB> "de-feminized, over-sized, self-centered, mercenary-minded" choices?

Mmkay.  For the nth time Adam, we don't live in the land of
Adam-fantasy.  Women actually are allowed to do things productive,
independent and entirely free of their male counterparts.  They aren't
forced to cook and clean and merely be sexual vessels.   Sometimes,
and this will come as a shock to you, no doubt, men and women even
find -love- (which is the crucial distinction between this system) and
they marry one another for the satisfaction of being together.   I
know, far-fetched and idealistically crazy as it is, but such things
do happen.   I can guarantee you, if my mother was approached by my
father, and 25 years ago, he commented on her cleaning ability as a
motivator for marrying her, we would not be having this conversation
now.

If guys still have silly antequated ideas about 'women's role' then
their opportunities for finding women _will_ be scarce.   Again, these
situations are great, provided everyone is aware that the relationship
is a contractual one -- he wants a maid, a dog and a prostitute he
doesn't have to pay, and she wants a country that isn't impoverished
and teeming with AIDS.  A contract, versus a true love-interest
marriage.

Egh.  I really need to stop analyzing your posts to this extent.   I
blame law school and my cat.

-BB

ALB> - Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
ALB>   http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
ALB>   beberg@mithral.com





-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                            mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0507.3e5a5811fbfca49dc665f982e81ea271.eml000066400000000000000000000250471444326627400313000ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 11:41:43 2002
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From: bitbitch@magnesium.net
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Subject: Re: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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Ah yes..

Yet another case where 'marriage' is actually an inappropriate word
for these guys.  What they want is 'housekeeper' 'dog' and
'prostitute'.

All I can say, is I hope these girls come out, take the men for what
they have, be glorified housekeepers for as short a term as possible,
and enjoy the free travel.

Love my arse.

-BB
ALB> ...an alternative to the "kind of de-feminized, over-sized, self-centered,
ALB> mercenary-minded lady available on the British singles scene,"

ALB> Glad to see American culture is making it's way into the British bars too :)
ALB> God bless us uncivilized bastards, every one.

ALB> Still, definately something not right about the below. People are now
ALB> cheaper then a decent laptop? (ok, so we knew that already)

ALB> -------------

ALB> Selling Wedded Bliss Big Business in Thailand
ALB> Thu Aug 29,10:19 AM ET
ALB> By Andrew Marshall

ALB> BANGKOK, Thailand (Reuters) - English dentist Ken Moylan came to Thailand
ALB> looking for a wife. It took two hours to find her.

ALB> "The first day I went out with Wan, she came back to my hotel and hung all
ALB> my clothes up and tidied the room. I thought it was marvelous," he said. "I
ALB> knew then there was something special."

ALB> Moylan, 49, is one of thousands of men who use introduction agencies to meet
ALB> -- and marry -- Thai women. He lives in England now with 28-year-old Wan,
ALB> who is expecting their first child.

ALB> Critics of marriage agencies say they exploit the grinding poverty of women
ALB> in developing countries, offering dreams of a new life in the West that
ALB> often turn sour. But Moylan says he has no regrets about coming to Thailand
ALB> in search of a wife.

ALB> "I got to Thailand at 2 p.m., and by 4 p.m. I'd met Wan," he said. "I knew I
ALB> found her attractive. I could tell straight away that she was very caring."

ALB> Moylan spent a week in Thailand, and after returning to England kept in
ALB> touch with Wan by phone and mail. Six months later she came to England and
ALB> the couple married.

ALB> MR. MARRIAGE

ALB> Lawrence Lynch, 49, runs Thai Professional Introduction Services, the agency
ALB> Moylan used to meet his wife. Lynch, who calls himself "Mr. Marriage,"
ALB> started the company after also marrying a Thai woman through an introduction
ALB> agency.

ALB> Since then he has helped set up hundreds of marriages.

ALB> "In the last five years we've done about 400," he said. "To the best of my
ALB> knowledge, they have all been successful."

ALB> Male clients pay $2,213 for the service, although men from countries that
ALB> require them to handle some of the visa work on their own get a discount.
ALB> Clients then get to view catalogs and videos of hundreds of Thai women
ALB> looking for a husband. If they like what they see they come to Bangkok.

ALB> Clients are introduced to several women in chaperoned meetings in Lynch's
ALB> office -- encounters that can often be awkward given mutual shyness and
ALB> language problems.

ALB> "We find that the gentlemen are usually just as nervous as the ladies,"
ALB> Lynch said. "But once they start meeting the ladies they soon relax."

ALB> After the first meeting, couples can decide to go on dates to get to know
ALB> each other better. Within two weeks of arrival, Lynch says, almost every
ALB> client has found a potential wife.

ALB> "At the end of a fortnight it's very, very rare for a guy to go back and
ALB> think he hasn't made his mind up," he said. In most cases, marriage follows,
ALB> usually within the next year.

ALB> Roongthip Kamchat, managing director of Thai No. 1 Connections, a
ALB> Bangkok-based agency, says she has introduced about 1,000 couples, and less
ALB> than 10 percent have broken up.

ALB> Roongthip says she sometimes has a difficult time calming men who have just
ALB> arrived in Bangkok looking for a wife.

ALB> "Sometimes they are very nervous," she said. "And sometimes they are very
ALB> impatient and say 'Give me a lady, I want to get married now.' I say: 'Calm
ALB> down, OK, we'll talk."'

ALB> But if men are really in a hurry, Roongthip says, she can find them a wife
ALB> and get them married within a week. Lynch says clients he has found wives
ALB> for include a blind man, a man with one leg and a man with post-traumatic
ALB> stress disorder.

ALB> WHY?

ALB> Similar marriage agencies can be found in many developing countries. Critics
ALB> say they thrive on the neediness of lonely Western men who are unable to
ALB> form relationships in their own country, and on the desperation of
ALB> impoverished women who believe they can find a better life in the West.

ALB> But Moylan says that if the arrangement makes both partners happy, there is
ALB> no reason to object. "If you talk about people who are needy, I think
ALB> everybody wants someone to love them, and wants someone to love, so yes, I
ALB> need Wan," he said.

ALB> "Thai women are dissatisfied with life in Thailand. I think there's no
ALB> secret there. They are looking for a better life. I don't have a problem
ALB> with that. In return they are willing to give a lot of love and care to
ALB> their future husband."

ALB> Lynch says men are dissatisfied with Western women too, and that is why they
ALB> choose to use his agency.

ALB> His brochure promises an alternative to the "kind of de-feminized,
ALB> over-sized, self-centered, mercenary-minded lady available on the British
ALB> singles scene," and says he can make dreams come true even for men who are
ALB> not "God's gift to women."

ALB> Roongthip said many Western men found it difficult to meet women in their
ALB> own countries -- and found Thai women attractive.

ALB> "They don't know how to meet women. Even if they go to pubs or discotheques
ALB> or restaurants or department stores, how can they ask people to marry them?
ALB> Impossible," she said.

ALB> "Many Thai girls are slim, have long hair, black eyes, small nose. They are
ALB> good at taking care and joking and laughing, not strict. Different from
ALB> ladies from other countries."

ALB> Although many couples married through agencies have a considerable age gap,
ALB> the agencies say this is not a problem. They say language problems are also
ALB> not a major obstacle.

ALB> "Thai ladies are not ageist, and they have no qualms whatsoever about having
ALB> a husband who is significantly older," Lynch said. "When I met my wife she
ALB> couldn't speak a word of English. We muddled along with a phonetic
ALB> dictionary. The ladies are very keen to learn English and they pick it up
ALB> very quickly."

ALB> Many agencies also offer tuition for woman on what to expect when they move
ALB> to the West.

ALB> "We have kitchens, we have study classes," Roongthip said. "We teach them
ALB> how to eat, and when to make tea."

ALB> PITFALLS

ALB> But not all dreams come true. "Bee" is a 26-year-old Thai woman who went to
ALB> Switzerland two years ago with a man she met through an agency. Now she is
ALB> back in Bangkok, sad and angry.

ALB> "He had no friends, and I was so lonely," she said. "I tried to make him
ALB> happy but he just wanted sex and somebody to keep his house clean. He never
ALB> spoke to me."

ALB> Bee came back to Bangkok earlier this year. "I thought I would be happy
ALB> there," she said. "But it was the worst time of my life."

ALB> Lynch says that while some agencies are badly run, he makes checks to ensure
ALB> unsuitable candidates are weeded out.

ALB> "We are ethical and professional," he said. "We will not take on all
ALB> comers."

ALB> Moylan says that despite possible pitfalls, his own marriage is proof the
ALB> arrangement can work. Wan's sister has just signed up with Lynch's company,
ALB> looking for a foreign husband.

ALB> "Perhaps there are cases of women being exploited. I'm sure there are,"
ALB> Moylan said. "But in the majority of cases the women get a good deal."





-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                            mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0508.4f7509bdf6a597ddb34f15df3bf2c227.eml000066400000000000000000000143151444326627400313530ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 11:41:25 2002
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Ouch.... hooooo....

Cheers,
RAH

--- begin forwarded text


Status: RO
Date: Thu,  5 Sep 2002 09:17:13 -0700
From: Same Guy
Subject: Re: Electric car an Edsel...
To: "R. A. Hettinga"  

Bob,

This guy's an idiot.

I design loads for systems with the 50 kV capacitors.  One of those has 864
of such capacitors and stores only 10 megajoules, which means 11 kilojoules
each.  They weigh 125 kg.

You need high energy per unit mass, and the capacitive system I picked
maximizes that.

It is precisely the system that Maxwell is touting for electrical braking
and power augmentation for regenerative use in automobiles.  You also need
voltage you can use in a DC motor, which is why though the actual
capacitors in the system are charged to 2.5 volts, the system has them
arranged in series to boost the voltage.

Ignore him.  He's a waste of my time.



------------------------
  From: "R. A. Hettinga" 
  Subject: Re: Electric car an Edsel...
  Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 15:31:39 -0400
  To: Some people...



--- begin forwarded text


Status: RO
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 07:59:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Adam L. Beberg" 
To: "R. A. Hettinga" 
cc: 
Subject: Re: Electric car an Edsel...

On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, R. A. Hettinga wrote:

> Maxwell (www.maxwell.com) makes and sells high energy density capacitors,
> called ultracapacitors.  They deliver them in an air-cooled, voltage
> regulated module that will charge to 42 V and hold 128 kilojoules -- roughly
> the energy in 2 teaspoons of sugar or a bite of a donut -- and weighs 16
> kilograms.  If that electrical energy could all be converted to kinetic
> energy, there's enough to get the capacitor module up to about 200 mph -- in
> a vacuum.

Since the energy you can pack into a capacitor is something like
1/2*C*(V^2), you want to design your system with the lowest voltage possible
to fully exploit that V^2 ;) So yea, a 42V system will only be useful for
accelerating insects, not cars. That must be why 40kV is standard not 42.
(the joke of putting 42 into goggle to find that model was not missed BTW)

Most production systems use a mix of batteries and capacitors, as very few
real world applications run for less then 10 seconds like the car we were
talking about originally. Even 10 seconds is pushing the "capactior is the
wrong choice" limits. Thats why the landspeed record model is a battery one,
it's got to run for a much longer period of time and needs a steady
discharge curve.

But it should be safe to say that most people want the Indy 500 version, not
the 1/4 mile sprint version when they are looking for a vehice :) For those
you dont want a battery or a capacitor, you want to take advantage of whole
atoms, not just electrons. Then you can suck off the electrons you need with
a fuel cell. However, you will use both capacitors for the braking/accel,
and batteries to not just dump excess energy in the design.

- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


---------------End of Original Message-----------------

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0510.4c08a0b5d860b948679e50edc7220e02.eml000066400000000000000000000220331444326627400310250ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 11:41:57 2002
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...an alternative to the "kind of de-feminized, over-sized, self-centered,
mercenary-minded lady available on the British singles scene,"

Glad to see American culture is making it's way into the British bars too :)
God bless us uncivilized bastards, every one.

Still, definately something not right about the below. People are now
cheaper then a decent laptop? (ok, so we knew that already)

-------------

Selling Wedded Bliss Big Business in Thailand
Thu Aug 29,10:19 AM ET
By Andrew Marshall

BANGKOK, Thailand (Reuters) - English dentist Ken Moylan came to Thailand
looking for a wife. It took two hours to find her.

"The first day I went out with Wan, she came back to my hotel and hung all
my clothes up and tidied the room. I thought it was marvelous," he said. "I
knew then there was something special."

Moylan, 49, is one of thousands of men who use introduction agencies to meet
-- and marry -- Thai women. He lives in England now with 28-year-old Wan,
who is expecting their first child.

Critics of marriage agencies say they exploit the grinding poverty of women
in developing countries, offering dreams of a new life in the West that
often turn sour. But Moylan says he has no regrets about coming to Thailand
in search of a wife.

"I got to Thailand at 2 p.m., and by 4 p.m. I'd met Wan," he said. "I knew I
found her attractive. I could tell straight away that she was very caring."

Moylan spent a week in Thailand, and after returning to England kept in
touch with Wan by phone and mail. Six months later she came to England and
the couple married.

MR. MARRIAGE

Lawrence Lynch, 49, runs Thai Professional Introduction Services, the agency
Moylan used to meet his wife. Lynch, who calls himself "Mr. Marriage,"
started the company after also marrying a Thai woman through an introduction
agency.

Since then he has helped set up hundreds of marriages.

"In the last five years we've done about 400," he said. "To the best of my
knowledge, they have all been successful."

Male clients pay $2,213 for the service, although men from countries that
require them to handle some of the visa work on their own get a discount.
Clients then get to view catalogs and videos of hundreds of Thai women
looking for a husband. If they like what they see they come to Bangkok.

Clients are introduced to several women in chaperoned meetings in Lynch's
office -- encounters that can often be awkward given mutual shyness and
language problems.

"We find that the gentlemen are usually just as nervous as the ladies,"
Lynch said. "But once they start meeting the ladies they soon relax."

After the first meeting, couples can decide to go on dates to get to know
each other better. Within two weeks of arrival, Lynch says, almost every
client has found a potential wife.

"At the end of a fortnight it's very, very rare for a guy to go back and
think he hasn't made his mind up," he said. In most cases, marriage follows,
usually within the next year.

Roongthip Kamchat, managing director of Thai No. 1 Connections, a
Bangkok-based agency, says she has introduced about 1,000 couples, and less
than 10 percent have broken up.

Roongthip says she sometimes has a difficult time calming men who have just
arrived in Bangkok looking for a wife.

"Sometimes they are very nervous," she said. "And sometimes they are very
impatient and say 'Give me a lady, I want to get married now.' I say: 'Calm
down, OK, we'll talk."'

But if men are really in a hurry, Roongthip says, she can find them a wife
and get them married within a week. Lynch says clients he has found wives
for include a blind man, a man with one leg and a man with post-traumatic
stress disorder.

WHY?

Similar marriage agencies can be found in many developing countries. Critics
say they thrive on the neediness of lonely Western men who are unable to
form relationships in their own country, and on the desperation of
impoverished women who believe they can find a better life in the West.

But Moylan says that if the arrangement makes both partners happy, there is
no reason to object. "If you talk about people who are needy, I think
everybody wants someone to love them, and wants someone to love, so yes, I
need Wan," he said.

"Thai women are dissatisfied with life in Thailand. I think there's no
secret there. They are looking for a better life. I don't have a problem
with that. In return they are willing to give a lot of love and care to
their future husband."

Lynch says men are dissatisfied with Western women too, and that is why they
choose to use his agency.

His brochure promises an alternative to the "kind of de-feminized,
over-sized, self-centered, mercenary-minded lady available on the British
singles scene," and says he can make dreams come true even for men who are
not "God's gift to women."

Roongthip said many Western men found it difficult to meet women in their
own countries -- and found Thai women attractive.

"They don't know how to meet women. Even if they go to pubs or discotheques
or restaurants or department stores, how can they ask people to marry them?
Impossible," she said.

"Many Thai girls are slim, have long hair, black eyes, small nose. They are
good at taking care and joking and laughing, not strict. Different from
ladies from other countries."

Although many couples married through agencies have a considerable age gap,
the agencies say this is not a problem. They say language problems are also
not a major obstacle.

"Thai ladies are not ageist, and they have no qualms whatsoever about having
a husband who is significantly older," Lynch said. "When I met my wife she
couldn't speak a word of English. We muddled along with a phonetic
dictionary. The ladies are very keen to learn English and they pick it up
very quickly."

Many agencies also offer tuition for woman on what to expect when they move
to the West.

"We have kitchens, we have study classes," Roongthip said. "We teach them
how to eat, and when to make tea."

PITFALLS

But not all dreams come true. "Bee" is a 26-year-old Thai woman who went to
Switzerland two years ago with a man she met through an agency. Now she is
back in Bangkok, sad and angry.

"He had no friends, and I was so lonely," she said. "I tried to make him
happy but he just wanted sex and somebody to keep his house clean. He never
spoke to me."

Bee came back to Bangkok earlier this year. "I thought I would be happy
there," she said. "But it was the worst time of my life."

Lynch says that while some agencies are badly run, he makes checks to ensure
unsuitable candidates are weeded out.

"We are ethical and professional," he said. "We will not take on all
comers."

Moylan says that despite possible pitfalls, his own marriage is proof the
arrangement can work. Wan's sister has just signed up with Lynch's company,
looking for a foreign husband.

"Perhaps there are cases of women being exploited. I'm sure there are,"
Moylan said. "But in the majority of cases the women get a good deal."



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0511.7c59aca5d737ae0f1a94b8e08d5def67.eml000066400000000000000000000066071444326627400314370ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 11:42:28 2002
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From: Eugen Leitl 
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Cc: "Adam L. Beberg" , 
Subject: Re[2]: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:

> If guys still have silly antequated ideas about 'women's role' then
> their opportunities for finding women _will_ be scarce.  

What is silly and antiquated depends a lot on which country you live in.

I don't have statistics on the love half life, but it seems long-term 
relationships use something else for glue.

Clearly our non-silly non-antiquated ideas about relationships have
resulted in mostly short-duration relationships and single-parented,
dysfunctional kids (not enough of them too boot, so to keep our
demographics from completely keeling over we're importing them from places
with mostly silly and antiquated ideas).

At least from the viewpoint of demographics sustainability and
counterpressure to gerontocracy and resulting innovatiophobia we're doing
something wrong.

Maybe we should really go dirty Tleilaxu all the way.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0512.17bff8553d7e8f6c668166afe149795b.eml000066400000000000000000000232041444326627400311560ustar00rootroot00000000000000Replied: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 12:26:24 +0100
Replied: Hussein Kanji 
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i agree with rob. i think if the phones (and mms is building traction in europe in handsets), this might be interesting. bottom line is will it a) help sell phones and b) bill enough time on the wcarriers networks?

anyone remember the polariod photo sticker fad? low quality, small in size. but kids totally dug that stuff. seems like every adolescent girl had that stuff at one point. and it never replaced or aimed to replace digital cameras or normal photographs. i don't think mms photos will be a substitute for other photography - developed at the local 1 hour joint or digital photos on your pc. i think it expands the market and forms a new category. the extent of the category size is the big question (will it be a fad or will it a sustained market). that's consumer behavior and marketing. but i don't think the technology adoption will follow a substitution of another product on the market (in this case, digital photos or normal photos). europe's the one to watch - more teenagers have wireless phones and if the pricing and marketing is right, they'll figure out what to do with it once the carriers how to figure out how to market it to them.

-h

>From: "Rob Shavell" 
>To: "'Mike Masnick'" 
>Cc: 
>Subject: RE: sprint delivers the next big thing??
>Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 01:10:50 -0700
>
>right Mike,
>
>i will agree to disagree but i take your comments to heart.  my opinion is
>only that this is one of the last frontiers of communications ('instant
>show') that we cross easily (though you are right as rain on pricing).  i am
>mildly amused at the level of skepticism and innatention it is getting.
>
>my premise is that the world will change in dramatic and unexpected ways
>once there are a billion 'eye's' which can instantly share what they see
>amongst each other.  that doesn't mean that people will stop talking on
>their phones, or that people will spend more time w/images than voice.  just
>that it is fundamental.  from news to crime to privacy to dating to family
>life to bloopers and practical jokes, i believe there will be an explosion
>of images unleashed specifically by cell phone integrated lenses because of
>their utter ubiquity that dwarfs all pictures taken in the history of
>photography by orders of magnitude and in short order. and yes, changes
>things 'big time'.
>
>rgds,
>rob
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Masnick [mailto:mike@techdirt.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 11:58 PM
>To: Rob Shavell
>Cc: fork@example.com
>Subject: RE: sprint delivers the next big thing??
>
>
>Not to keep harping on this, but...
>
>At 11:36 PM 8/20/02 -0700, Rob Shavell wrote:
>
>>content: who cares about content?  that no one can think of 'useful'
>content
>>is always the business persons mistake. the content is the users
>>communications.  its anything and everything.  avg person could easily send
>>half dozen pics to a dozen people a day.  mainly humorous i'd guess. who
>>cares if content is trivial in nature. picture speaks a thousand words.
>
>This does nothing to answer my question.  I *do* care about content.  Hell,
>if I could be convinced that people would send stupid pics back and forth
>all day, I'd have a different opinion of this.  I just am not convinced
>that they will (stupid or not).
>
>While a picture may be worth a thousand words (and this is the same
>argument the guy who works for me made), how many people do you know who
>communicate by pictures?  Sure, it sounds nice to say that a picture is
>such an efficient messaging mechanism, but how often do you actually find
>yourself drawing someone a picture to explain something?
>
>I don't buy it.
>
>For most messages, text works fine and is the most efficient
>mechanism.  For some messages, pictures do the job, but I would say not
>nearly as often as words.  Why do you think Pictionary and Charades and
>such are games?  Because images are usually not the most efficient way to
>get a message across.
>
>>misc ramblings: i suppose you skeptical forkers would have said the same
>>thing about '1 hour photo' processing.  trivial, who needs it, i get better
>>resultion elswhere.  and yet, it had great decentralizing impact - the
>plant
>>had to be downsized and pushed to the retail operation - the digital
>camera,
>>and finally the integrated digital camera phone brings this cycle of
>>decentralization in photography to a logical conclusion (which will put the
>>photo giants to bed) and change the world in a meaningful way.  also, SMS
>>didn't take off because its easy, it took off because it costs less.  its
>>greatly ironic the carriers often trumpet the 'profitabilty' of their SMS
>>traffic over others because of its ratio of cost to bandwidth.  in reality,
>>SMS cannibilizes the voice rev's they bought their networks to handle.
>
>Again, this is the same argument my colleague made (along with "you just
>don't understand kids today, and they'll run with this").  I wasn't saying
>that MMS wouldn't take off because it wasn't high quality or that it wasn't
>easy.  I was saying that I couldn't see why people would use it in a way
>that "changed the face of communications".
>
>I'm looking for the compelling reason (even if it's a stupid one) why
>people would want to do this.  Sure, if they integrate cameras into the
>phone, and the quality improves (even only marginally) I can certainly see
>people taking pictures with their cameras and occasionally sending them to
>other people.  But, mostly, I don't see what the benefit is to this over
>sending them to someone's email address, or putting together an online (or
>offline) photoalbum.
>
>I don't think 1 hour photos are trivial.  People want to see their own pics
>right away, and the quality is plenty good enough for snapshots.  That's
>one of the main reasons why digital cameras are catching on.  The instant
>view part.  I'm guessing your argument is that people not only want
>"instant view", but also "instant show".  Which is what this service
>offers.  I'm not convinced that most people want "instant show".  I think
>people like to package their pictures and show them.  That's why people put
>together fancy albums, and sit there and force you to go through them while
>they explain every picture.  Sure, occasionally "instant show" is nice, but
>it's just "nice" on occasion.  I still can't see how it becomes a integral
>messaging method.
>
>What's the specific benefit of taking a picture and immediately sending it
>from one phone to another?  There has to be *some* benefit, even if it's
>silly if people are going to flock to it.
>
>I'm searching... no one has given me a straight answer yet.
>
>The *only* really intriguing idea I've heard about things like MMS lately
>are Dan Gillmor's assertion that one day in the near future some news event
>will happen, and a bunch of people will snap pictures with their mobile
>phones, from all different angles, and those photos tell the real story of
>what happened - before the press even gets there.
>
>Willing to be proven wrong,
>Mike
>
>PS If the wireless carriers continue to price these services as stupidly as
>they currently are, then MMS is *never* going to catch on.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0513.c04bc05369ac4583d82e9a6b6ffc3972.eml000066400000000000000000000107111444326627400312040ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 11:42:34 2002
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From: CDale 
To: Eirikur Hallgrimsson 
Cc: FoRK 
Subject: Re: Ouch...
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LOL!  They're not doomed at all.  Thousands of men wear cb2000s to work 
every day (along with other chastity devices).    They are not just 
decorations.  You will not get a woody or have an orgasm until your 
keyholder allows you to.  Anyhow, I know better than to have this 
type of conversation with a 'nilla, but these men wear these happily, and 
consensually.  (:  There is little power struggle in the lifestyles of the 
people who use these.  There is power exchange instead.  Lots of 
variations on the definition, but this one's from Gloria Brame's site:

Power exchange: the consensual transfer of power by the submissive to the 
dominant. The exchange takes place when the returned energy from the 
dominant empowers the submissive. 

Anyhow, there are tons of informative sites out there for anyone who cares 
to read them, but I assure you, the chastity device business is doing very 
well, and it is illegal to force someone to wear one.  It's not coercion, 
it is creative sensuality.  (:
Cindy

On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Eirikur Hallgrimsson wrote:

> On Wednesday 04 September 2002 10:59 pm, CDale wrote:
> > Someone needs to tell the mayor about this:
> > http://www.cb-2000.com/
> 
> "Chastity" technologies were doomed from the start, and I'll add chemical 
> ones to the trash heap.  (Yeah, Cindy, these are decorative toys for the 
> subculture, but....)  
> 
> Generally,someone is attempting to preserve a relationship with this 
> nonsense, when quite plainly the the relationship is in a state where 
> preserving it is of little value.  Hardware is of no real use save for 
> playing the power-struggle game.   I don't want to see the future of this.
> "Invisible Fence" for your mate.   "Must wear" location transponders and 
> endocrine monitors.   More movies like "Minority Report."
> 
> It seems so automatic for people to reach for coercive solutions.   So 
> surprizing given the low absolute effectiveness of coercion in the absense 
> of overwhelming force advantage.
> 
> Eirikur
> 
> 
> 

-- 
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn


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On Wednesday 04 September 2002 10:59 pm, CDale wrote:
> Someone needs to tell the mayor about this:
> http://www.cb-2000.com/

"Chastity" technologies were doomed from the start, and I'll add chemical 
ones to the trash heap.  (Yeah, Cindy, these are decorative toys for the 
subculture, but....)  

Generally,someone is attempting to preserve a relationship with this 
nonsense, when quite plainly the the relationship is in a state where 
preserving it is of little value.  Hardware is of no real use save for 
playing the power-struggle game.   I don't want to see the future of this.
"Invisible Fence" for your mate.   "Must wear" location transponders and 
endocrine monitors.   More movies like "Minority Report."

It seems so automatic for people to reach for coercive solutions.   So 
surprizing given the low absolute effectiveness of coercion in the absense 
of overwhelming force advantage.

Eirikur




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0515.7c5179be4289820f5b060e1ff2a38ab3.eml000066400000000000000000000102351444326627400311160ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 11:42:43 2002
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From: CDale 
To: Eugen Leitl 
Cc: bitbitch@magnesium.net, "Adam L. Beberg" ,
	
Subject: Re[2]: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Eugen Leitl wrote:

> On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:
> 
> > If guys still have silly antequated ideas about 'women's role' then
> > their opportunities for finding women _will_ be scarce.  
> 
> What is silly and antiquated depends a lot on which country you live in.

It also depends on what the fad is or what is in style.  (:

> I don't have statistics on the love half life, but it seems long-term 
> relationships use something else for glue.
> 
> Clearly our non-silly non-antiquated ideas about relationships have
> resulted in mostly short-duration relationships and single-parented,
> dysfunctional kids (not enough of them too boot, so to keep our
> demographics from completely keeling over we're importing them from places
> with mostly silly and antiquated ideas).

Actualy our silly antiquated ideas about relationships and love have 
resulted in the bleedings of many upon many a page (and musical  instrumnet, 
and canvas)  What's the problem if we dash a little Mrs. Dash on them?  (:  
Or cayenne.  Or ginger. (mm ask me about ginger root play).  

And let me tell you this: just because a child happens to be 
single-parented (what a word), does not mean that child is dysfunctional 
or lives in a dysfunctional home.  The govt/media/church has tried to make 
it look like there is a disintegration, when in fact, there is a coming 
together of other family members and friends to raise children.  It's not 
decaying -- it's changing.  Nothing wrong with change.


> At least from the viewpoint of demographics sustainability and
> counterpressure to gerontocracy and resulting innovatiophobia we're doing
> something wrong.
> 
> Maybe we should really go dirty Tleilaxu all the way.
> 

Maybe y'all should buy m-w some more bandwidth.
C
-- 
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0516.3b4b9b147de3e2b7ee1ca08792a9d948.eml000066400000000000000000000073661444326627400313030ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 11:42:46 2002
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This is preaty neat.

- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com

Pitch Dark Bar Opens for Blind Dates
Thu Sep 5,10:09 AM ET

BERLIN (Reuters) - Diners at Berlin's newest restaurant cannot see what they
are eating and have to be guided to their table by blind waiters because the
bar is pitch black.

The restaurant, which opened Wednesday, aims to make guests concentrate on
senses other than sight.

Holding on to one another, the first visitors followed waiter Roland
Zimmermann, 33, into the dining room. Although the PhD student has been
blind since childhood, he is the only one able to point out chairs, cutlery
and drinks.

"I'm putting your plate right in front of you," Zimmermann said. "I can't
find my mouth," one voice replied out of the dark. "I wonder what this dish
is -- Lasagne? Or some casserole?" another invisible guest said.

In the "unsicht-Bar," which means invisible in German, diners cannot choose
complete dishes from the menu but can only indicate whether they would like
a fish, meat or vegetarian option.

"We want people to have an extraordinary experience of tasting, feeling and
smelling," said Manfred Scharbach, head of the organization for blind and
sight-restricted people, which is running the bar.

"People are surprised that their tongues and taste senses are taking over
and are sending signals, which their eyes would normally have sent," he
added.

Of the 30 staff, 22 are blind.

An average meal lasts about three hours and the waiters are always around to
help, Scharnbach said.

And at the end of the night, they will even reveal what customers have
actually been eating.



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0517.a379a642533f85c04e63d9f3a0813b63.eml000066400000000000000000000054471444326627400307720ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 11:42:19 2002
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On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Kragen Sitaker wrote:

> Adam Beberg writes:
> > Shouldn't a politician know not to tell the truth? Odds he's impeached by
> 
> As the article you forwarded explained in the second line of text,
> this politician is a woman.
> 
> > next Monday? [ob: no-clue-how-they-remove-mayors-in-italy]
> 
> ob: no-clue-full-stop, as in nearly all Adam Beberg posts.

posts, or pouts?
in rare webster form,
C


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0518.def6dfc3c2204dda12270b0ca97f0fc5.eml000066400000000000000000000230441444326627400314610ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 11:42:49 2002
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i agree with rob. i think if the phones (and mms is building traction in europe in handsets), this might be interesting. bottom line is will it a) help sell phones and b) bill enough time on the wcarriers networks?

anyone remember the polariod photo sticker fad? low quality, small in size. but kids totally dug that stuff. seems like every adolescent girl had that stuff at one point. and it never replaced or aimed to replace digital cameras or normal photographs. i don't think mms photos will be a substitute for other photography - developed at the local 1 hour joint or digital photos on your pc. i think it expands the market and forms a new category. the extent of the category size is the big question (will it be a fad or will it a sustained market). that's consumer behavior and marketing. but i don't think the technology adoption will follow a substitution of another product on the market (in this case, digital photos or normal photos). europe's the one to watch - more teenagers have wireless phones and if the pricing and marketing is right, they'll figure out what to do with it once the carriers how to figure out how to market it to them.

-h

>From: "Rob Shavell" 
>To: "'Mike Masnick'" 
>Cc: 
>Subject: RE: sprint delivers the next big thing??
>Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 01:10:50 -0700
>
>right Mike,
>
>i will agree to disagree but i take your comments to heart.  my opinion is
>only that this is one of the last frontiers of communications ('instant
>show') that we cross easily (though you are right as rain on pricing).  i am
>mildly amused at the level of skepticism and innatention it is getting.
>
>my premise is that the world will change in dramatic and unexpected ways
>once there are a billion 'eye's' which can instantly share what they see
>amongst each other.  that doesn't mean that people will stop talking on
>their phones, or that people will spend more time w/images than voice.  just
>that it is fundamental.  from news to crime to privacy to dating to family
>life to bloopers and practical jokes, i believe there will be an explosion
>of images unleashed specifically by cell phone integrated lenses because of
>their utter ubiquity that dwarfs all pictures taken in the history of
>photography by orders of magnitude and in short order. and yes, changes
>things 'big time'.
>
>rgds,
>rob
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mike Masnick [mailto:mike@techdirt.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 11:58 PM
>To: Rob Shavell
>Cc: fork@example.com
>Subject: RE: sprint delivers the next big thing??
>
>
>Not to keep harping on this, but...
>
>At 11:36 PM 8/20/02 -0700, Rob Shavell wrote:
>
>>content: who cares about content?  that no one can think of 'useful'
>content
>>is always the business persons mistake. the content is the users
>>communications.  its anything and everything.  avg person could easily send
>>half dozen pics to a dozen people a day.  mainly humorous i'd guess. who
>>cares if content is trivial in nature. picture speaks a thousand words.
>
>This does nothing to answer my question.  I *do* care about content.  Hell,
>if I could be convinced that people would send stupid pics back and forth
>all day, I'd have a different opinion of this.  I just am not convinced
>that they will (stupid or not).
>
>While a picture may be worth a thousand words (and this is the same
>argument the guy who works for me made), how many people do you know who
>communicate by pictures?  Sure, it sounds nice to say that a picture is
>such an efficient messaging mechanism, but how often do you actually find
>yourself drawing someone a picture to explain something?
>
>I don't buy it.
>
>For most messages, text works fine and is the most efficient
>mechanism.  For some messages, pictures do the job, but I would say not
>nearly as often as words.  Why do you think Pictionary and Charades and
>such are games?  Because images are usually not the most efficient way to
>get a message across.
>
>>misc ramblings: i suppose you skeptical forkers would have said the same
>>thing about '1 hour photo' processing.  trivial, who needs it, i get better
>>resultion elswhere.  and yet, it had great decentralizing impact - the
>plant
>>had to be downsized and pushed to the retail operation - the digital
>camera,
>>and finally the integrated digital camera phone brings this cycle of
>>decentralization in photography to a logical conclusion (which will put the
>>photo giants to bed) and change the world in a meaningful way.  also, SMS
>>didn't take off because its easy, it took off because it costs less.  its
>>greatly ironic the carriers often trumpet the 'profitabilty' of their SMS
>>traffic over others because of its ratio of cost to bandwidth.  in reality,
>>SMS cannibilizes the voice rev's they bought their networks to handle.
>
>Again, this is the same argument my colleague made (along with "you just
>don't understand kids today, and they'll run with this").  I wasn't saying
>that MMS wouldn't take off because it wasn't high quality or that it wasn't
>easy.  I was saying that I couldn't see why people would use it in a way
>that "changed the face of communications".
>
>I'm looking for the compelling reason (even if it's a stupid one) why
>people would want to do this.  Sure, if they integrate cameras into the
>phone, and the quality improves (even only marginally) I can certainly see
>people taking pictures with their cameras and occasionally sending them to
>other people.  But, mostly, I don't see what the benefit is to this over
>sending them to someone's email address, or putting together an online (or
>offline) photoalbum.
>
>I don't think 1 hour photos are trivial.  People want to see their own pics
>right away, and the quality is plenty good enough for snapshots.  That's
>one of the main reasons why digital cameras are catching on.  The instant
>view part.  I'm guessing your argument is that people not only want
>"instant view", but also "instant show".  Which is what this service
>offers.  I'm not convinced that most people want "instant show".  I think
>people like to package their pictures and show them.  That's why people put
>together fancy albums, and sit there and force you to go through them while
>they explain every picture.  Sure, occasionally "instant show" is nice, but
>it's just "nice" on occasion.  I still can't see how it becomes a integral
>messaging method.
>
>What's the specific benefit of taking a picture and immediately sending it
>from one phone to another?  There has to be *some* benefit, even if it's
>silly if people are going to flock to it.
>
>I'm searching... no one has given me a straight answer yet.
>
>The *only* really intriguing idea I've heard about things like MMS lately
>are Dan Gillmor's assertion that one day in the near future some news event
>will happen, and a bunch of people will snap pictures with their mobile
>phones, from all different angles, and those photos tell the real story of
>what happened - before the press even gets there.
>
>Willing to be proven wrong,
>Mike
>
>PS If the wireless carriers continue to price these services as stupidly as
>they currently are, then MMS is *never* going to catch on.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0519.3a28a99fa8dd275d13742144dc05ff57.eml000066400000000000000000000105621444326627400311340ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 11:42:50 2002
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From: Eugen Leitl 
To: CDale 
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Subject: Re[2]: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, CDale wrote:

> It also depends on what the fad is or what is in style.  (:

DNA's idea of fads is on the 100 kiloyear scale, unfortunately. As long as
current fads don't involve in-vivo rewrite of the genome, homeoboxes
including (now there's a problem for you, homeoboxing the adult), they're
not all that smart an idear.
 
> Actualy our silly antiquated ideas about relationships and love have
> resulted in the bleedings of many upon many a page (and musical
> instrumnet, and canvas)  What's the problem if we dash a little Mrs.

Art is sure nice. However, if art is our first priority we're kinda
fux0red, if we've set our sight on a sustainable culture.

> Dash on them?  (:  Or cayenne.  Or ginger. (mm ask me about ginger
> root play).
> 
> And let me tell you this: just because a child happens to be
> single-parented (what a word), does not mean that child is
> dysfunctional or lives in a dysfunctional home.  The govt/media/church

Our firmware is not built to be single-parented. You can counteract that
somewhat by exposing the kid to a community of close friends, but not too
many do that.

> has tried to make it look like there is a disintegration, when in
> fact, there is a coming together of other family members and friends
> to raise children.  It's not decaying -- it's changing.  Nothing wrong
> with change.

I don't know what exactly is wrong, but something is definitely wrong.  
This is way too important to be left to just our intuition of what is
right and what is wrong.
  
> > At least from the viewpoint of demographics sustainability and
> > counterpressure to gerontocracy and resulting innovatiophobia we're doing
> > something wrong.
> > 
> > Maybe we should really go dirty Tleilaxu all the way.
> > 
> 
> Maybe y'all should buy m-w some more bandwidth.

m-w?


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0520.db2ae930623e1db4c9cf60676f96c4e5.eml000066400000000000000000000044501444326627400312640ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 15:28:04 2002
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these are being advertised all over the UK/ Chief come-on seems to be to the 
same people who use phones for text messaging--i.e. teenagers. "Hi, we're at 
the beach and I met this awesome guy--here's his pic"

Tom


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0521.56b24a33e65cd045de37e6bec5ec30e3.eml000066400000000000000000000064701444326627400313320ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 15:28:09 2002
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Subject: Re: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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Eugen Leitl:
>Clearly our non-silly non-antiquated ideas about relationships have 
>resulted in mostly short-duration relationships and single-parented, 
>dysfunctional kids ..

Don't swallow too quickly what you have read about
more traditional cultures, today or in the past. Do
we have any statistics on the poor man's divorce from
centuries past? Are you so sure that the kids in 18th
century England were any more "functional" than those
today? What about 20th century Saudi Arabia?

>At least from the viewpoint of demographics sustainability and 
>counterpressure to gerontocracy and resulting innovatiophobia we're doing
>something wrong.

Granting your first two points, I'm skeptical about
the last. Do you see ANY signs that America specifically
or the west generally are suffering from lack of
innovation, vis-a-vis youth nations such as Iran? The
last I read, the third generation of the revolution all
(a) want to move to America, and (b) failing that, are
importing everything they can American.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0522.19fc2c700f36b246f3e1fb0807ce03fa.eml000066400000000000000000000106261444326627400312430ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 15:28:17 2002
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From: Eugen Leitl 
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On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Russell Turpin wrote:

> Don't swallow too quickly what you have read about
> more traditional cultures, today or in the past. Do

I don't swallow ;>

I was just offering anecdotal first-hand experiences from a number of
cultures indicating 1) we apparently have a problem 2) which requires more
than ad hoc hand-waving approach (it's trivial! it's obvious! all we have
to do is XY!).

> we have any statistics on the poor man's divorce from
> centuries past? Are you so sure that the kids in 18th

That's easy. Divorce didn't happen. The church and the society looked
after that. Only relatively recently that privilege was granted to kings, 
and only very recently to commoners.

> century England were any more "functional" than those
> today? What about 20th century Saudi Arabia?

Is Saudi Arabia a meaningful emigration source?
 
> >At least from the viewpoint of demographics sustainability and 
> >counterpressure to gerontocracy and resulting innovatiophobia we're doing
> >something wrong.
> 
> Granting your first two points, I'm skeptical about
> the last. Do you see ANY signs that America specifically

I wasn't talking about the US specifically. (Though the demographics 
problem exists there as well, albeit not in that extent we Eurotrash are 
facing right now).

> or the west generally are suffering from lack of
> innovation, vis-a-vis youth nations such as Iran? The

1) I'm seeing lack of innovation, and -- more disturbing -- trend towards
even less innovation by an autocatalytic process (gerontocracy favors
gerontocracy).

> last I read, the third generation of the revolution all
> (a) want to move to America, and (b) failing that, are
> importing everything they can American.

My point was that the west, US first and foremost, importing innovation
carriers and working against bad trend in the demographics by large scale
import. While this kinda, sorta works on the short run, this is not
something sustainable.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0523.ae1df35c0bf85f059e5a08b9b7453999.eml000066400000000000000000000065121444326627400312220ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 15:28:01 2002
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From: "Jim Whitehead" 
To: "FoRK" 
Subject: SoE at UCSC looking for an experienced IT support person
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Hi all,

We're looking for an experienced IT support person in the School of
Engineering at UC Santa Cruz -- please foward to anyone who you think might
be interested.

- Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perrone [mailto:mperrone@cs.ucsc.edu]
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 12:31 PM
To: techstaff@cse.ucsc.edu
Subject: Recruiting for PAIII-IV Supervisor



Dear SoE Community,

Forgive the spam, but I wanted to make sure that everyone is aware that
we are recruiting to replace the position vacated by Gary Moro.

This is a technical position with supervisor responsibilities. The focus is
on Solaris and Linux systems administration with Veritas and Irix experience
a plus.

The posting is here:

http://www2.ucsc.edu/staff_hr/employment/listings/020809.htm

Regards,

Michael Perrone


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0524.1276996048a3e02ffbed1e2df5d13848.eml000066400000000000000000000071151444326627400311310ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 15:28:33 2002
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Related anecdote:

I was eating in a restaurant in chinatown in Boston.  The place was empty.  
The only other customer was a white guy reading an asian-language 
newspaper.  The guy asked the waiter for help translating a word.  
Eventually his story came out.

He had married an asian woman through one of these introduction services.  
after about a year of marriage she had charged him with assault and left
him, leaving no contact information.  He was hanging around in Chinatown,
asking random asians for help finding her.

I obviously don't know if he did assault her, but what struck me was that
the possibility of mutual exploitation is high.

Anecdote number two:

In college I had a job as a street vendor.  There was a guy I worked with
who was a lifer in the job.  He was a noticably messed up guy.  Among
other odd characteristics he fawned on women customers, doing stuff like
offering them flowers.

I asked him about it.  He said that he'd never had sex with a woman who
wasn't a prostitute, and his dream was to save up enough money to get a
mail order bride.

I was really moved.  The guy was a loon, but he wanted a companion as much
as anyone else and he was realistic about his chances.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0525.e70ff5bbd69f7400b460ebe5ed77398f.eml000066400000000000000000000047421444326627400313670ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 15:28:27 2002
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From: Tom 
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Subject: The Needle and the damage done
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>>From the Hoax or Hack Dept:
Digital Needle - A Virtual Gramophone , a reported method to scan yourr
old LPs on a flat bed scanner and then use the resulting images to make
MP3's of the fine playing conatined therein. Its all still sketchy to the
point of possible hoaxdom, but the idea is dang interesting.

http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~springer/




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0526.615f918b4860d437577f6aa66c9b37cf.eml000066400000000000000000000064221444326627400310720ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 18:24:16 2002
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From: "Russell Turpin" 
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Subject: Re: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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Turpin:
>>Do we have any statistics on the poor man's divorce from centuries past?

Eugen Leitl:
>That's easy. Divorce didn't happen.

You seem not to know what a "poor man's divorce" is.
It is an old term, from the time when divorce was
difficult, but walking was easy, and identity was
not so locked down as it is today. Not every widow
had a dead husband.

>I'm seeing lack of innovation ..

That doesn't tell us anything except what is
happening in Eugen Leitl's life. The more common
observation is that the rate of change is increasing.
Do you have any data that might persuade us that what
you see is more telling than what others see?

>gerontocracy favors gerontocracy.

I would have thought that gerontocracy favors biotech
research and plenty of young workers to pay taxes.
Note that the fertility rate doesn't result from
decisions made by the old, but by the young. If we
want more kids, we have to convince people who are
in their twenties to become parents.




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0527.fb030532024e5534f13993d88b5923a0.eml000066400000000000000000000100461444326627400306120ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 18:35:54 2002
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On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Russell Turpin wrote:

> You seem not to know what a "poor man's divorce" is.

I know very little in general. I hope you can excuse me for that.

> It is an old term, from the time when divorce was
> difficult, but walking was easy, and identity was
> not so locked down as it is today. Not every widow
> had a dead husband.

Yeah, you could always run away, strangle your wife, your wife could
always poison you, scooby dooby doo. It wasn't the rule, and I don't feel 
like desintegrating into a nitpicking orgy. You win.
 
> >I'm seeing lack of innovation ..
> 
> That doesn't tell us anything except what is
> happening in Eugen Leitl's life. The more common

Yeah, I happen to live in a small hole, under the roots of an old oak 
tree. You don't, so innovation is a global phenomenon.

> observation is that the rate of change is increasing.
> Do you have any data that might persuade us that what
> you see is more telling than what others see?
> 
> >gerontocracy favors gerontocracy.
> 
> I would have thought that gerontocracy favors biotech
> research and plenty of young workers to pay taxes.

So thought I, but apparently all it favours is a lot of whining about good
old times, the inability of youngn's to pay for your pension and the
health insurance, and the generic influx of uncouth furriners, which must 
be stopped, Somehow.

> Note that the fertility rate doesn't result from
> decisions made by the old, but by the young. If we

Uh, I'm kinda aware of that.

> want more kids, we have to convince people who are
> in their twenties to become parents.

Now we're talking. Got a plan?


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0528.bb4c2a959983406354ff8d5b8f499eb8.eml000066400000000000000000000052061444326627400311640ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 18:46:52 2002
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From: "Jim Whitehead" 
To: "FoRK" 
Subject: Googlecooking
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Originally linked by Dave's Scripting News:

http://www.megnut.com/archive.asp?which=2002_09_01_archive.inc#000194

We've got Googlewhacking, Googlebombing and now we can add Googlecooking to
our lexicon. My mother types whatever ingredients she has on hand into
Google and then picks the most appealing recipe returned in the results.
What a good idea!

- Jim


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0529.39faaedc75738c375b3de0c0a5766498.eml000066400000000000000000000046651444326627400312330ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep  6 18:46:50 2002
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http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/pr/2002/21/
(Shows a picture of a wheel within a wheel galaxy).

The universe is a strange and wonderful place.

- Jim


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From: Tom 
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On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Russell Turpin wrote:
--]want more kids, we have to convince people who are
--]in their twenties to become parents.
--]

Hey give me a break, I was working on finding the right mate. Once I did,
boomsky theres a puppy and if you would kindly not put on So much preasure
there culd well be another.
3 is a magic number...yes it is , its a magic number




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From: "Jim Whitehead" 
To: "Eugen Leitl" , 
Subject: RE: Re[2]: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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> Clearly our non-silly non-antiquated ideas about relationships have
> resulted in mostly short-duration relationships and single-parented,
> dysfunctional kids (not enough of them too boot, so to keep our
> demographics from completely keeling over we're importing them from places
> with mostly silly and antiquated ideas).
>
> At least from the viewpoint of demographics sustainability and
> counterpressure to gerontocracy and resulting innovatiophobia we're doing
> something wrong.

There was a fascinating article in the Economist 1-2 weeks back (the issue
with a pregnant-looking Statue of Liberty on the Front) that stated that
even for the native US population, fertility had jumped in the last decade
and a half. I think the current figure for the US is a little over 2, but
not quite the ~2.1 of replacement rate. Combined with the very fertile
non-native population, the article implied the US was going to have a
significant increase in population over earlier predictions. As well, the
population would overall be more youthful, with associated implications for
being able to fund social programs, military spending, consumer spending,
etc.

Europe did not show the same increase in fertility.

Some actual data for the US are here:

http://www.census.gov/population/pop-profile/2000/chap04.pdf
Part of:
http://www.census.gov/population/www/pop-profile/profile2000.html

- Jim


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0532.0a4c127cb659ebad1f4366cf3eb93b83.eml000066400000000000000000000055341444326627400313370ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep  7 21:52:37 2002
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From: "Jim Whitehead" 
To: "FoRK" 
Subject: Google? Not in China
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In a slightly old news story, it turns out the Chinese government has banned
all access to the Google and AltaVista search engines.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/04/international/asia/04BEIJ.html
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/bayarea/business/3996218.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2233229.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/2238236.stm

The reason appears to be the Google cache feature. I can only imagine the
Internet Archive will soon follow, if it isn't already blocked.

Seems that governments do have some power over the Web, after all.

- Jim


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0533.adb2f50e664e9db319a7e802c862ba31.eml000066400000000000000000000056321444326627400312550ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep  7 21:52:15 2002
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On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Jim Whitehead wrote:
--]We've got Googlewhacking, Googlebombing and now we can add Googlecooking to
--]our lexicon. My mother types whatever ingredients she has on hand into
--]Google and then picks the most appealing recipe returned in the results.
--]What a good idea!


Dude, this is at least two years old and probably older. Of course we had
a more catchy phrase for it, we call it Iron Chef Google.

When the garden was in full bloom a few summers back Dawn and I would
google the ingrediants we just grew to come up with tasty recipes, or more
often ideas from recipes from which toi make our own.

Fight the hypebuzzword war, be an army of one:)-

-tom (iron che tempah)wsmf



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0534.a2b4731ea39251d3db3b433ed81b1087.eml000066400000000000000000000105521444326627400310760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep  7 21:52:42 2002
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> Wrong, [VMS-like async io] makes a huge difference in even what I
> consider small programs.

So it sounds as if, to your thinking,
most useful apps are also trivial. 
Unless each key on my keyboard were
(to the apps) distinct event sources,
I can't think of any of my usual job
mix that would need hundreds, or even
tens, of async requests; perhaps you
can explain how nontrivial apps will
be compellingly useful? 

> but it's still not built in, who knows when it will be. The point is it's
> not portable in either case.

Does that lack of portability imply it
isn't generally useful?  (When it was
apparent that TCP networks were useful,
berkeley sockets could be found even
on VMS and Win 3.1 boxen)

Why would early Unix have run with the
idea that, if one wishes to do multiple
things at the same time, one can use a
group of processes to do them?

- they had Multics as a counterexample?

- in the days of tiny memories and tapes,
  people were more accustomed to writing
  programs that didn't run entirely in a
  single address space?

- one is a great number for an interface,
  as log(1) is 0, and specification can
  be implicit?

- some combination of the above?

Now, as Hoare says:
> There are two ways of constructing a software design.  One way is to make
> it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies and the other is to
> make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies.

As programmers, we've been able to make
our lives complicated for at least half
a century; the hardware interrupt gives
us the rope.

Part of Dijkstra's inspiration for THE
was the counterexample of IBM's multi-
programmed boxes (were these the same
ones that inspired Mythical Man Month?)
and I suppose he would say the question
is how not to make a mess of it -- how
should we structure computations so if
we try to do ten times as many things
at the same time, reasoning about the
resulting system is at most ten times
more complex -- not one hundred, and
certainly not three and a half million
times more.

Compared to that project, the prospect
of writing a driver library for various
vendors' aio implementations seems to
be truly trivial.

-Dave

(Oracle, in their quest for portability,
used to use raw disks for the database.
This finessed the filesystem issue; did
it also allow them to roll their own set
of async drivers?)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0535.e5e6e90ce659ed0f9d4063350a836201.eml000066400000000000000000000125701444326627400310500ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep  7 21:52:49 2002
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From: CDale 
To: Eugen Leitl 
Cc: bitbitch@magnesium.net, "Adam L. Beberg" ,
	
Subject: Re[2]: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Eugen Leitl wrote:

> On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, CDale wrote:
> 
> > It also depends on what the fad is or what is in style.  (:
> 
> DNA's idea of fads is on the 100 kiloyear scale, unfortunately. As long as
> current fads don't involve in-vivo rewrite of the genome, homeoboxes
> including (now there's a problem for you, homeoboxing the adult), they're
> not all that smart an idear.

I forgot what we were taking about.  (:

>  
> > Actualy our silly antiquated ideas about relationships and love have
> > resulted in the bleedings of many upon many a page (and musical
> > instrumnet, and canvas)  What's the problem if we dash a little Mrs.
> 
> Art is sure nice. However, if art is our first priority we're kinda
> fux0red, if we've set our sight on a sustainable culture.

Nah, didn't say art's our priority.  Said our ideas about relationships 
and love are.  

> > And let me tell you this: just because a child happens to be
> > single-parented (what a word), does not mean that child is
> > dysfunctional or lives in a dysfunctional home.  The govt/media/church
> 
> Our firmware is not built to be single-parented. You can counteract that
> somewhat by exposing the kid to a community of close friends, but not too
> many do that.

I see it a lot in the south. Also family.

> 
> > has tried to make it look like there is a disintegration, when in
> > fact, there is a coming together of other family members and friends
> > to raise children.  It's not decaying -- it's changing.  Nothing wrong
> > with change.
> 
> I don't know what exactly is wrong, but something is definitely wrong.  
> This is way too important to be left to just our intuition of what is
> right and what is wrong.

One thing that's wrong is who some of us choose as babysitters.  Too many 
kids are put in front of the television for hours each day, to be 
influenced by what the media and government thinks is important.  I 
learned a long time ago that what they think is important and what is are 
two different things.  I threw the TV out when Xi was 9.  She's got her 
own place now, and still doesn't have one.  YaY!  Another thing that's 
wrong is what goes on in public schools.  Some allow a bit of 
individuality, but only for a class or a short period of time, depending 
on the teachers, most of the time.  I dunno how many times I've seen Xi 
come home from school absolutely miserable or outraged about something 
that happened at school.  She made it to college, though, whew.  It's a 
big problem to tackle, and I don't know the answer.  I like the idea of 
the voucher system, because in a way it is a way parents can vote more 
efficiently for how their kids are taught.

 
>   > > > At least from the viewpoint of demographics sustainability and
> > > counterpressure to gerontocracy and resulting innovatiophobia we're doing
> > > something wrong.
> > > 
> > > Maybe we should really go dirty Tleilaxu all the way.
> > > 
> > 
> > Maybe y'all should buy m-w some more bandwidth.
> 
> m-w?
> 
merriam-webster.  (:
C

-- 
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0536.ba3a7bb7f4797867867494246c8f6dec.eml000066400000000000000000000072311444326627400311660ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep  7 21:52:53 2002
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To: "Jim Whitehead" 
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Subject: Re: Google? Not in China
References: 
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
X-Home-Page: http://www.teledyn.com
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>>>>> "J" == Jim Whitehead  writes:

    J> Seems that governments do have some power over the
    J> Web, after all.

At the 1993 ITAC "Roadwork" Conference, Peter Mansbridge asked the
panel of experts how it might be possible to censor the internet.  All
of the panelists laughed except Bill Buxton.  Peter asked him if he
knew something the others didn't.  Bill replied that it /was/ possible
to censor the internet, which drew a gasp from the audience. "All you
need is a global government more Draconian than any that has occured
before in history"

Scientology DMCA suits against Norwegians, legal RIAA file-trading
virii, Bush's Homeland Insecurity, Canada using ISPs as spies, RIAA
suing Prodigy for P2P users and having Foreign sites barred from the
US, France tempers Yahoo, China IP-filters Google ... 

Seems Bill didn't know much about how Government really works.  Either
that, or there's a smelly similarity between Buxton's global Big
Brother and the US and Chinese.

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy  TeleDynamics Communications Inc
 Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0537.882248ddfd0af3420b98e12fe3f9e7cb.eml000066400000000000000000000146141444326627400313610ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep  7 21:53:02 2002
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From: "Geege Schuman" 
To: "CDale" , 
Cc: "Adam L. Beberg" , 
Subject: RE: Re[2]: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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quitcherbraggin.

:-)
gg

-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of CDale
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 3:42 AM
To: bitbitch@magnesium.net
Cc: Adam L. Beberg; fork@example.com
Subject: Re[2]: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)


I dunno, BB.  Women who like to be thought of this way should have the
right to choose to be treated this way.  Men too...  ahem.  (:  My boy
cleans, washes clothes, cooks, fixes stuff, etc, and works the same number
of hours I do, sometimes more, if he has to catch up with me.  (:  I
close him because he is industrious and creative, and because he
unfailingly makes my bed the minute I get out of it.  And boy #2 will be
here soon to help boy #1 with other things such as pedicures,  backrubs,
and sure, fucking.  LOL! (along with the aforementioned "chores") Adam can
have his cake and eat it too, if he can only find the right girl who has
the same beliefs about gender  roles that he has. Of course, he has NO
clue where to look, so we will be constantly laughing at him while he
stumbles around in the dark.
Cindy
P.S. the numbers do not in any way indicate importance or favor -- only
the order in which they move into my house.  -smiles at chris-
P.S. #2.  I'm moving.   Going to New Orleans.  Can't handle any more cab
driving.  The summer sucked here on the MS Gulf Coast, instead of rocking
like it normally does.  Wish me luck.  I'm going to look for another
computer job.  Le Sigh.  (:

On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:

> Hello Adam,
>
> Thursday, September 05, 2002, 11:33:18 PM, you wrote:
>
>
> ALB> So, you're saying that product bundling works? Good point.
>
> Sometimes I wish I was still in CA.  You deserve a good beating every
> so often...  (anyone else want to do the honors?)
>
> ALB> And how is this any different from "normal" marriage exactly? Other
then
> ALB> that the woman not only gets a man, but one in a country where both
she and
> ALB> her offspring will have actual opportunities? Oh and the lack of
> ALB> "de-feminized, over-sized, self-centered, mercenary-minded" choices?
>
> Mmkay.  For the nth time Adam, we don't live in the land of
> Adam-fantasy.  Women actually are allowed to do things productive,
> independent and entirely free of their male counterparts.  They aren't
> forced to cook and clean and merely be sexual vessels.   Sometimes,
> and this will come as a shock to you, no doubt, men and women even
> find -love- (which is the crucial distinction between this system) and
> they marry one another for the satisfaction of being together.   I
> know, far-fetched and idealistically crazy as it is, but such things
> do happen.   I can guarantee you, if my mother was approached by my
> father, and 25 years ago, he commented on her cleaning ability as a
> motivator for marrying her, we would not be having this conversation
> now.
>
> If guys still have silly antequated ideas about 'women's role' then
> their opportunities for finding women _will_ be scarce.   Again, these
> situations are great, provided everyone is aware that the relationship
> is a contractual one -- he wants a maid, a dog and a prostitute he
> doesn't have to pay, and she wants a country that isn't impoverished
> and teeming with AIDS.  A contract, versus a true love-interest
> marriage.
>
> Egh.  I really need to stop analyzing your posts to this extent.   I
> blame law school and my cat.
>
> -BB
>
> ALB> - Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
> ALB>   http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
> ALB>   beberg@mithral.com
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn






golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0538.59939f403bfb0f553e02f77abfb38846.eml000066400000000000000000000076161444326627400311530ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep  7 21:52:47 2002
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From: "Jim Whitehead" 
To: "FoRK" 
Subject: Online contents of Electronic Publishing journal
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I recently stumbled across the contents of the journal, "Electronic
Publishing", which was published from January, 1988 through December, 1995.
All papers are available online in PDF (this was apparently one of the first
journals to disseminate in PDF, in 1994). The journal also reprints some of
the better papers from the Electronic Publishing conferences, held bi-yearly
from 1986-1992 (EP86, EP88, EP90, EP92).

http://cajun.cs.nott.ac.uk/compsci/epo/papers/epoddtoc.html

Today's reader might look at the contents and wonder about their relevance,
since they don't directly discuss the Web. As an academic, I find this
journal valuable, since the papers are of generally high quality (by top
researchers), and they provide lots of pointers to the evolution of the
ideas that led to many Web technologies.  It's one source among many for
sifting through the intellectual lineage of electronic publishing
technologies.

Rohit and Adam might find the following papers especially relevant, in the
context of their WWW7 "Evolution of Document Species" paper:

Page Description Languages: Development, Implementation and Standardization:
A. L. Oakley and A. C. Norris
http://cajun.cs.nott.ac.uk/compsci/epo/papers/volume1/issue2/epalo012.pdf

Important papers in the history of document preparation systems: basic
sources:
Richard K. Furuta
http://cajun.cs.nott.ac.uk/compsci/epo/papers/volume5/issue1/ep057rf.pdf
(Excellent overview of sources)

Several of the authors of papers in this journal are now involved in the ACM
Document Engineering conference series:
http://www.documentengineering.org/

- Jim



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0539.6430d7b1bde02782a28fef081b4224fc.eml000066400000000000000000000143071444326627400311740ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep  7 21:53:06 2002
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From: CDale 
To: Geege Schuman 
Cc: bitbitch@magnesium.net, "Adam L. Beberg" ,
	
Subject: RE: Re[2]: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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Why should I?  (:
C

On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Geege Schuman wrote:

> quitcherbraggin.
> 
> :-)
> gg
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of CDale
> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 3:42 AM
> To: bitbitch@magnesium.net
> Cc: Adam L. Beberg; fork@example.com
> Subject: Re[2]: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
> 
> 
> I dunno, BB.  Women who like to be thought of this way should have the
> right to choose to be treated this way.  Men too...  ahem.  (:  My boy
> cleans, washes clothes, cooks, fixes stuff, etc, and works the same number
> of hours I do, sometimes more, if he has to catch up with me.  (:  I
> close him because he is industrious and creative, and because he
> unfailingly makes my bed the minute I get out of it.  And boy #2 will be
> here soon to help boy #1 with other things such as pedicures,  backrubs,
> and sure, fucking.  LOL! (along with the aforementioned "chores") Adam can
> have his cake and eat it too, if he can only find the right girl who has
> the same beliefs about gender  roles that he has. Of course, he has NO
> clue where to look, so we will be constantly laughing at him while he
> stumbles around in the dark.
> Cindy
> P.S. the numbers do not in any way indicate importance or favor -- only
> the order in which they move into my house.  -smiles at chris-
> P.S. #2.  I'm moving.   Going to New Orleans.  Can't handle any more cab
> driving.  The summer sucked here on the MS Gulf Coast, instead of rocking
> like it normally does.  Wish me luck.  I'm going to look for another
> computer job.  Le Sigh.  (:
> 
> On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:
> 
> > Hello Adam,
> >
> > Thursday, September 05, 2002, 11:33:18 PM, you wrote:
> >
> >
> > ALB> So, you're saying that product bundling works? Good point.
> >
> > Sometimes I wish I was still in CA.  You deserve a good beating every
> > so often...  (anyone else want to do the honors?)
> >
> > ALB> And how is this any different from "normal" marriage exactly? Other
> then
> > ALB> that the woman not only gets a man, but one in a country where both
> she and
> > ALB> her offspring will have actual opportunities? Oh and the lack of
> > ALB> "de-feminized, over-sized, self-centered, mercenary-minded" choices?
> >
> > Mmkay.  For the nth time Adam, we don't live in the land of
> > Adam-fantasy.  Women actually are allowed to do things productive,
> > independent and entirely free of their male counterparts.  They aren't
> > forced to cook and clean and merely be sexual vessels.   Sometimes,
> > and this will come as a shock to you, no doubt, men and women even
> > find -love- (which is the crucial distinction between this system) and
> > they marry one another for the satisfaction of being together.   I
> > know, far-fetched and idealistically crazy as it is, but such things
> > do happen.   I can guarantee you, if my mother was approached by my
> > father, and 25 years ago, he commented on her cleaning ability as a
> > motivator for marrying her, we would not be having this conversation
> > now.
> >
> > If guys still have silly antequated ideas about 'women's role' then
> > their opportunities for finding women _will_ be scarce.   Again, these
> > situations are great, provided everyone is aware that the relationship
> > is a contractual one -- he wants a maid, a dog and a prostitute he
> > doesn't have to pay, and she wants a country that isn't impoverished
> > and teeming with AIDS.  A contract, versus a true love-interest
> > marriage.
> >
> > Egh.  I really need to stop analyzing your posts to this extent.   I
> > blame law school and my cat.
> >
> > -BB
> >
> > ALB> - Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
> > ALB>   http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
> > ALB>   beberg@mithral.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> --
> "I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0540.e0eb7ff6a98c054571e07addde3cc4de.eml000066400000000000000000000060361444326627400315630ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep  7 21:53:19 2002
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From: Eirikur Hallgrimsson 
Organization: Electric Brain
To: FoRK@xent.com
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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On Friday 06 September 2002 06:16 am, Eugen Leitl wrote:
> I don't know what exactly is wrong, but something is definitely wrong.  
> This is way too important to be left to just our intuition of what is
> right and what is wrong.

This is one of those formally difficult points from a philosophy 
perspective.   You can't really throw out intuition and emotion because 
reason really only gets you answers that reflect the genome and the 
ancestral environment.   Going forward requires creativity and experiment.

Eirikur






golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0541.ab739b149f085a5830ec76c633db2850.eml000066400000000000000000000161631444326627400310450ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep  7 21:53:26 2002
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From: CDale 
To: Geege Schuman 
Cc: bitbitch@magnesium.net, "Adam L. Beberg" ,
	
Subject: RE: Re[2]: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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If it's unwritten, how'm I supposed to know unless someone CALLS me up and 
tells me/  hint hint.  LOL  (:  Well, I reckon it's a written rule now, 
since it's on the internet in text format w/ your name attached, but then 
again, when have I ever followed any damned rules???  (:
C

On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Geege Schuman wrote:

> unwritten rule.  8-)
> 
> gg
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of CDale
> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:21 PM
> To: Geege Schuman
> Cc: bitbitch@magnesium.net; Adam L. Beberg; fork@example.com
> Subject: RE: Re[2]: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
> 
> 
> Why should I?  (:
> C
> 
> On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Geege Schuman wrote:
> 
> > quitcherbraggin.
> >
> > :-)
> > gg
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of CDale
> > Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 3:42 AM
> > To: bitbitch@magnesium.net
> > Cc: Adam L. Beberg; fork@example.com
> > Subject: Re[2]: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
> >
> >
> > I dunno, BB.  Women who like to be thought of this way should have the
> > right to choose to be treated this way.  Men too...  ahem.  (:  My boy
> > cleans, washes clothes, cooks, fixes stuff, etc, and works the same number
> > of hours I do, sometimes more, if he has to catch up with me.  (:  I
> > close him because he is industrious and creative, and because he
> > unfailingly makes my bed the minute I get out of it.  And boy #2 will be
> > here soon to help boy #1 with other things such as pedicures,  backrubs,
> > and sure, fucking.  LOL! (along with the aforementioned "chores") Adam can
> > have his cake and eat it too, if he can only find the right girl who has
> > the same beliefs about gender  roles that he has. Of course, he has NO
> > clue where to look, so we will be constantly laughing at him while he
> > stumbles around in the dark.
> > Cindy
> > P.S. the numbers do not in any way indicate importance or favor -- only
> > the order in which they move into my house.  -smiles at chris-
> > P.S. #2.  I'm moving.   Going to New Orleans.  Can't handle any more cab
> > driving.  The summer sucked here on the MS Gulf Coast, instead of rocking
> > like it normally does.  Wish me luck.  I'm going to look for another
> > computer job.  Le Sigh.  (:
> >
> > On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Adam,
> > >
> > > Thursday, September 05, 2002, 11:33:18 PM, you wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > ALB> So, you're saying that product bundling works? Good point.
> > >
> > > Sometimes I wish I was still in CA.  You deserve a good beating every
> > > so often...  (anyone else want to do the honors?)
> > >
> > > ALB> And how is this any different from "normal" marriage exactly? Other
> > then
> > > ALB> that the woman not only gets a man, but one in a country where both
> > she and
> > > ALB> her offspring will have actual opportunities? Oh and the lack of
> > > ALB> "de-feminized, over-sized, self-centered, mercenary-minded"
> choices?
> > >
> > > Mmkay.  For the nth time Adam, we don't live in the land of
> > > Adam-fantasy.  Women actually are allowed to do things productive,
> > > independent and entirely free of their male counterparts.  They aren't
> > > forced to cook and clean and merely be sexual vessels.   Sometimes,
> > > and this will come as a shock to you, no doubt, men and women even
> > > find -love- (which is the crucial distinction between this system) and
> > > they marry one another for the satisfaction of being together.   I
> > > know, far-fetched and idealistically crazy as it is, but such things
> > > do happen.   I can guarantee you, if my mother was approached by my
> > > father, and 25 years ago, he commented on her cleaning ability as a
> > > motivator for marrying her, we would not be having this conversation
> > > now.
> > >
> > > If guys still have silly antequated ideas about 'women's role' then
> > > their opportunities for finding women _will_ be scarce.   Again, these
> > > situations are great, provided everyone is aware that the relationship
> > > is a contractual one -- he wants a maid, a dog and a prostitute he
> > > doesn't have to pay, and she wants a country that isn't impoverished
> > > and teeming with AIDS.  A contract, versus a true love-interest
> > > marriage.
> > >
> > > Egh.  I really need to stop analyzing your posts to this extent.   I
> > > blame law school and my cat.
> > >
> > > -BB
> > >
> > > ALB> - Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
> > > ALB>   http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
> > > ALB>   beberg@mithral.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > "I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> --
> "I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0542.9a7c09acf3e7748e4ae90a48959e731f.eml000066400000000000000000000044251444326627400312340ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep  7 21:53:30 2002
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Subject: Re: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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From: harley@argote.ch (Robert Harley)
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CDale URLed thusly:
>http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2000/10.19/01_monogamy.html

>The assumption that females of all species tend to be less promiscuous
>than males simply does not fit the facts, Hrdy contended.

Well, DUH!!!

It is perfectly obvious that (heterosexual) promiscuity is exactly,
precisely identical between males and females.

Of course the shapes of the distributions may differ.


R


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0543.5070e5e197736112782da156d46f6357.eml000066400000000000000000000067641444326627400305650ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep  7 21:53:34 2002
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From: "Russell Turpin" 
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Subject: Re: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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Robert Harley:
>It is perfectly obvious that (heterosexual) promiscuity is exactly, 
>precisely identical between males and females.

Yeah, assuming approximately equal populations.
But that obscures the different modes of
promiscuity. Both the person who gives sex for
money or power or companionship and the person
who uses money and power and companionship to
get sex are promiscuous, in the broadest sense
of the word. But their motives and behavior are
quite different.

Langur monkeys were the example in the cited
article. "Dominant males .. kill babies that
are not their own." "The dominant male monkey
.. seeks to defend his harem of females." But
cozying up to the current dominant male isn't
the best strategy for female langurs, because
"dominant males are dethroned by rivals every
27 months or so." "By mating with as many
extra-group males as possible, female langurs
ensure their offspring against infanticide,"
by the male who is likely next to rule the
roost.

Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't paint a
picture of carefree females engaged in joyously
promiscuous couplings. The dom cab driver who
is taking her two boy toys to New Orleans is a
better picture of that. ;-)





_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0544.6498586c31db44aac98902ffc6cee696.eml000066400000000000000000000160411444326627400312330ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep  7 21:53:25 2002
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From: "Geege Schuman" 
To: "CDale" ,
	"Geege Schuman" 
Cc: , "Adam L. Beberg" ,
	
Subject: RE: Re[2]: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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unwritten rule.  8-)

gg

-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of CDale
Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 10:21 PM
To: Geege Schuman
Cc: bitbitch@magnesium.net; Adam L. Beberg; fork@example.com
Subject: RE: Re[2]: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)


Why should I?  (:
C

On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Geege Schuman wrote:

> quitcherbraggin.
>
> :-)
> gg
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of CDale
> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 3:42 AM
> To: bitbitch@magnesium.net
> Cc: Adam L. Beberg; fork@example.com
> Subject: Re[2]: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
>
>
> I dunno, BB.  Women who like to be thought of this way should have the
> right to choose to be treated this way.  Men too...  ahem.  (:  My boy
> cleans, washes clothes, cooks, fixes stuff, etc, and works the same number
> of hours I do, sometimes more, if he has to catch up with me.  (:  I
> close him because he is industrious and creative, and because he
> unfailingly makes my bed the minute I get out of it.  And boy #2 will be
> here soon to help boy #1 with other things such as pedicures,  backrubs,
> and sure, fucking.  LOL! (along with the aforementioned "chores") Adam can
> have his cake and eat it too, if he can only find the right girl who has
> the same beliefs about gender  roles that he has. Of course, he has NO
> clue where to look, so we will be constantly laughing at him while he
> stumbles around in the dark.
> Cindy
> P.S. the numbers do not in any way indicate importance or favor -- only
> the order in which they move into my house.  -smiles at chris-
> P.S. #2.  I'm moving.   Going to New Orleans.  Can't handle any more cab
> driving.  The summer sucked here on the MS Gulf Coast, instead of rocking
> like it normally does.  Wish me luck.  I'm going to look for another
> computer job.  Le Sigh.  (:
>
> On Thu, 5 Sep 2002 bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:
>
> > Hello Adam,
> >
> > Thursday, September 05, 2002, 11:33:18 PM, you wrote:
> >
> >
> > ALB> So, you're saying that product bundling works? Good point.
> >
> > Sometimes I wish I was still in CA.  You deserve a good beating every
> > so often...  (anyone else want to do the honors?)
> >
> > ALB> And how is this any different from "normal" marriage exactly? Other
> then
> > ALB> that the woman not only gets a man, but one in a country where both
> she and
> > ALB> her offspring will have actual opportunities? Oh and the lack of
> > ALB> "de-feminized, over-sized, self-centered, mercenary-minded"
choices?
> >
> > Mmkay.  For the nth time Adam, we don't live in the land of
> > Adam-fantasy.  Women actually are allowed to do things productive,
> > independent and entirely free of their male counterparts.  They aren't
> > forced to cook and clean and merely be sexual vessels.   Sometimes,
> > and this will come as a shock to you, no doubt, men and women even
> > find -love- (which is the crucial distinction between this system) and
> > they marry one another for the satisfaction of being together.   I
> > know, far-fetched and idealistically crazy as it is, but such things
> > do happen.   I can guarantee you, if my mother was approached by my
> > father, and 25 years ago, he commented on her cleaning ability as a
> > motivator for marrying her, we would not be having this conversation
> > now.
> >
> > If guys still have silly antequated ideas about 'women's role' then
> > their opportunities for finding women _will_ be scarce.   Again, these
> > situations are great, provided everyone is aware that the relationship
> > is a contractual one -- he wants a maid, a dog and a prostitute he
> > doesn't have to pay, and she wants a country that isn't impoverished
> > and teeming with AIDS.  A contract, versus a true love-interest
> > marriage.
> >
> > Egh.  I really need to stop analyzing your posts to this extent.   I
> > blame law school and my cat.
> >
> > -BB
> >
> > ALB> - Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
> > ALB>   http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
> > ALB>   beberg@mithral.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> "I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn
>
>
>
>
>

--
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn






golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0545.f3614ca8b5095f9b69b7a3ff336d5aac.eml000066400000000000000000000105311444326627400313470ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep  7 21:53:57 2002
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From: "Geege Schuman" 
To: "Russell Turpin" , 
Subject: RE: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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cdale is a double chocolate chip macadamia to my vanilla wafer.  wait, maybe
i'm a ginger snap.


gg

-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of
Russell Turpin
Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 11:06 AM
To: fork@example.com
Subject: Re: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)


Robert Harley:
>It is perfectly obvious that (heterosexual) promiscuity is exactly,
>precisely identical between males and females.

Yeah, assuming approximately equal populations.
But that obscures the different modes of
promiscuity. Both the person who gives sex for
money or power or companionship and the person
who uses money and power and companionship to
get sex are promiscuous, in the broadest sense
of the word. But their motives and behavior are
quite different.

Langur monkeys were the example in the cited
article. "Dominant males .. kill babies that
are not their own." "The dominant male monkey
.. seeks to defend his harem of females." But
cozying up to the current dominant male isn't
the best strategy for female langurs, because
"dominant males are dethroned by rivals every
27 months or so." "By mating with as many
extra-group males as possible, female langurs
ensure their offspring against infanticide,"
by the male who is likely next to rule the
roost.

Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't paint a
picture of carefree females engaged in joyously
promiscuous couplings. The dom cab driver who
is taking her two boy toys to New Orleans is a
better picture of that. ;-)





_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com






golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0546.b6bc744eb32a97fdb4005fc1e513cf85.eml000066400000000000000000000104371444326627400313410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep  7 21:54:01 2002
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From: CDale 
To: Geege Schuman 
Cc: Russell Turpin , 
Subject: RE: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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Hah.  I guess she doesn't want everyone to know about all the kinky sex 
she and I have had.  LOL
C

On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Geege Schuman wrote:

> cdale is a double chocolate chip macadamia to my vanilla wafer.  wait, maybe
> i'm a ginger snap.
> 
> 
> gg
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of
> Russell Turpin
> Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 11:06 AM
> To: fork@example.com
> Subject: Re: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
> 
> 
> Robert Harley:
> >It is perfectly obvious that (heterosexual) promiscuity is exactly,
> >precisely identical between males and females.
> 
> Yeah, assuming approximately equal populations.
> But that obscures the different modes of
> promiscuity. Both the person who gives sex for
> money or power or companionship and the person
> who uses money and power and companionship to
> get sex are promiscuous, in the broadest sense
> of the word. But their motives and behavior are
> quite different.
> 
> Langur monkeys were the example in the cited
> article. "Dominant males .. kill babies that
> are not their own." "The dominant male monkey
> .. seeks to defend his harem of females." But
> cozying up to the current dominant male isn't
> the best strategy for female langurs, because
> "dominant males are dethroned by rivals every
> 27 months or so." "By mating with as many
> extra-group males as possible, female langurs
> ensure their offspring against infanticide,"
> by the male who is likely next to rule the
> roost.
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't paint a
> picture of carefree females engaged in joyously
> promiscuous couplings. The dom cab driver who
> is taking her two boy toys to New Orleans is a
> better picture of that. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0547.48bed4a66cbab49616e6d2a8f04a170b.eml000066400000000000000000000075061444326627400313420ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep  7 21:53:37 2002
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From: CDale 
To: Russell Turpin 
Cc: fork@example.com
Subject: Re: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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Oh, well, uh, thank you, Russell.  LOL@#!  (I think?)
C

On Sat, 7 Sep 2002, Russell Turpin wrote:

> Robert Harley:
> >It is perfectly obvious that (heterosexual) promiscuity is exactly, 
> >precisely identical between males and females.
> 
> Yeah, assuming approximately equal populations.
> But that obscures the different modes of
> promiscuity. Both the person who gives sex for
> money or power or companionship and the person
> who uses money and power and companionship to
> get sex are promiscuous, in the broadest sense
> of the word. But their motives and behavior are
> quite different.
> 
> Langur monkeys were the example in the cited
> article. "Dominant males .. kill babies that
> are not their own." "The dominant male monkey
> .. seeks to defend his harem of females." But
> cozying up to the current dominant male isn't
> the best strategy for female langurs, because
> "dominant males are dethroned by rivals every
> 27 months or so." "By mating with as many
> extra-group males as possible, female langurs
> ensure their offspring against infanticide,"
> by the male who is likely next to rule the
> roost.
> 
> Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't paint a
> picture of carefree females engaged in joyously
> promiscuous couplings. The dom cab driver who
> is taking her two boy toys to New Orleans is a
> better picture of that. ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
> 

-- 
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0548.02f295e25e8268967c4f00b24ec03236.eml000066400000000000000000000072061444326627400307110ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep  7 21:54:10 2002
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From: "Gordon Mohr" 
To: 
References: <20020907135257.7E5CBC44D@argote.ch>
Subject: Re: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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Definitional nit to pick:

Robert Harley writes:
> It is perfectly obvious that (heterosexual) promiscuity is exactly,
> precisely identical between males and females.
> 
> Of course the shapes of the distributions may differ.

You've redefined "promiscuity" above as "total" or "average" 
activity, which seems to rob it of its common meaning: 
activity above some specific threshold (usually "one") or 
norm, or involving extra or indiscriminate variety. 
"Promiscuity" is thus inherently a description of 
distributions rather than averages.

Consider a population of 3 males and 3 females. Let
there be three pairings which result in each person
having sex once. Then, let one of the males also have 
sex with the other two females. 

Sure, the average number of sex acts and sex partners
is equal between the sexes, tautologically. 

But here more women than men are:
 - above the single partner threshold
 - above the overall average 1.67 acts/partners threshold
 - above the overall median 1.5 acts/partners
 - above the overall mode 1 acts/partners

And here women have a higher mode (2) and median (2) 
number of partners.

So in this contrived population, females are more 
"promiscuous" than males, unless "promiscuity" is 
defined uselessly.

- Gordon


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0549.59f3057eef31f2b8ebb02446556a3f37.eml000066400000000000000000000050621444326627400311340ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep  7 21:54:04 2002
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From: "Russell Turpin" 
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Subject: RE: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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CDale:
>I guess [Geege] doesn't want everyone to know about all the kinky sex she 
>and I have had.

Yeah, like I'm going to believe that without
seeing the photos. Next, you'll be telling me
that Beberg found a job he likes.



_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0550.8e86f9859287ac9846e3c179b29e0fc1.eml000066400000000000000000000066701444326627400311140ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep  7 22:08:12 2002
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From: "Geege Schuman" 
To: "Russell Turpin" , 
Subject: RE: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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intersectedness: i'd be surprised if beberg ever had a BLOWjob he liked. i
mean, it would have involved OTHERS, less EVOLVED others.

:-)
gg



-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of
Russell Turpin
Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2002 3:07 PM
To: fork@example.com
Subject: RE: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)


CDale:
>I guess [Geege] doesn't want everyone to know about all the kinky sex she
>and I have had.

Yeah, like I'm going to believe that without
seeing the photos. Next, you'll be telling me
that Beberg found a job he likes.



_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com






golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0551.5bdfb0c299c60e442e39346dc08bad68.eml000066400000000000000000000046311444326627400312640ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Sep  8 23:50:34 2002
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Today a French officer called Michel Fournier is supposed to get in a
350-metre tall helium balloon, ride it up to the edge of space (40 km
altitude) and jump out.  His fall should last 6.5 minutes and reach
speeds of Mach 1.5.  He hopes to open his parachute manually at the
end, although with an automatic backup if he is 7 seconds from the
ground and still hasn't opened it.

R

ObQuote:
  "Veder�, si aver� si grossi li coglioni, come ha il re di Franza."
  ("Let's see if I've got as much balls as the King of France!")
  - Pope Julius II, 2 January 1511


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0552.1ce63d212148c58723cc1f7150b27157.eml000066400000000000000000000064351444326627400306730ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Sep  8 23:50:35 2002
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So uh, would this qualify for the Darwin awards if he doesn't make it?

Freaking french people...
   :-)
-BB
RH> Today a French officer called Michel Fournier is supposed to get in a
RH> 350-metre tall helium balloon, ride it up to the edge of space (40 km
RH> altitude) and jump out.  His fall should last 6.5 minutes and reach
RH> speeds of Mach 1.5.  He hopes to open his parachute manually at the
RH> end, although with an automatic backup if he is 7 seconds from the
RH> ground and still hasn't opened it.

RH> R

RH> ObQuote:
RH>   "Veder�, si aver� si grossi li coglioni, come ha il re di Franza."
RH>   ("Let's see if I've got as much balls as the King of France!")
RH>   - Pope Julius II, 2 January 1511



-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                            mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0553.a2487df9e3ff8da0521a962e19bce6d1.eml000066400000000000000000000070501444326627400313500ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Sep  8 23:50:39 2002
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From: James Rogers 
Subject: Re: whoa
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On 9/8/02 7:38 AM, "Gary Lawrence Murphy"  wrote:
>   J> ...  If you want a region of the globe mapped out to a very
>   J> high resolution (e.g. 1-meter), they can scan the area with
>   J> aircraft LIDAR and add it to the database, thereby making that
>   J> region zoomable to the resolution of the database for that
>   J> area.  
> 
> Can you give us an example of an application where 1-m resolution
> would be worth the considerable expense?


An example:  Being able to model RF propagation in three dimensions for a
metro area when deploying wireless networks.  By having every single tree
and building detail and similar, you can "see" even tiny dead spots due to
physical blockage and signal attenuation.  Overlay this with fiber map data
for yourself and your competitors (when you can glean such data), which is
also useful at this resolution, and you have a very slick way of modeling
existing network deployments in excruciating detail and optimizing further
deployments to maximize coverage and bandwidth.  Take that and tie it into a
slick geo-physically aware real-time network monitoring and management
system and you've really got something...

For many applications though, 5-meter data is probably adequate.


-James Rogers
 jamesr@best.com


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From: "Gordon Mohr" 
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Subject: Re: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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Robert Harley:
> Gordon Mohr wrote:
> >Definitional nit to pick:
> >You've redefined "promiscuity" above as "total" or "average" activity,
> 
> I think it's clear that I'm talking about averages, so I'm not sure
> why that nit needs to be picked...

It was clear you were talking about averages. But it should 
be equally clear that that isn't what people mean when they
use the word "promiscuity". 

> >which seems to rob it of its common meaning: 
> >activity above some specific threshold (usually "one") 
> 
> In that case, "promiscous" is a vacuous term in modern Western
> societies (but we knew that :), where people average 7 partners or so
> in their adult lives.

Not at all. There are still people who only have one partner.
There are many more whoe only have one partner over "long"
periods of time. So it is far from "vacuous" to describe some
people as "promiscuous" and others as "not promiscuous", 
especially over a set period. ("He was promiscuous in college.
He is no longer promiscuous.")

The word has a clear meaning, despite your continuing tendency 
to gloss that meaning over with population averages. 

> >Consider a population of 3 males and 3 females.
> >[...]
> >so in this contrived population, females are more "promiscuous" than males,
> 
> So 1 girl gets 1 guy, 2 girls get 2 guys, 2 guys get 1 girl, 1 guy
> gets 3 girls.  Sounds like six of one versus half a dozen of the other
> to me.

OK, then. Consider a population of 1,000,000. 500,000 men each
pair off with 500,000 women. Then, 1 man, let's call him "Wilt",
also has sex with the other 499,999 women. 

499,999 women have had more than one partner. 499,999 men have
only had one partner. It is now "perfectly obvious" that in the
common meaning of the term, among this contrived population, 
that women are "more promiscuous" than men -- even though the
single "most promiscuous" person, Wilt, is a man.  

"Promiscuity" is not "exactly, perfectly identical between males 
and females", except under a degenerate custom definition of
"promiscuity".

> >unless "promiscuity" is defined uselessly.
> 
> Ain't nothin' useless about averages.

Averages are useful, sure -- but much more so if called by their 
actual name, rather than conflated with another concept.

- Gordon



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On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Gordon Mohr wrote:

> OK, then. Consider a population of 1,000,000. 500,000 men each
> pair off with 500,000 women. Then, 1 man, let's call him "Wilt",
> also has sex with the other 499,999 women. 

It is not uncommon to find gay males who had sex with several thousands
partners (there would be more, in fact lots more, probably, but a lot of
them have died). Don't have to be a callboy, if considering that you can
have intercourse with several partners in a single day in a bathouse it
doesn't look particularly difficult to do.

Clearly this is not something what hets do, prostitution not taken into
account.




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0556.f2a384f62a88105a5ea0dee646cf6609.eml000066400000000000000000000066771444326627400312260ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Sep  8 23:51:12 2002
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To: James Rogers 
Cc: fork@example.com
Subject: Re: whoa
References: 
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
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>>>>> "J" == James Rogers  writes:

    J> An example: Being able to model RF propagation in three
    J> dimensions for a metro area when deploying wireless networks.
    J> By having every single tree and building detail and similar,
    J> you can "see" even tiny dead spots due to physical blockage and
    J> signal attenuation.  

Hmmm, just as I thought.  In other words, it has no practical uses
whatsoever ;) ... do the biz guys in your office /really/ think WISPs
are really going to shell out /their/ money to find a house or two
they can't reach?  Experience suggests (a) they won't care and (b)
they will even sign up that errant house and then give them a
run-around blaming the dead-spot on "unsupported vendor equipment".

Thus, yes, it is 'cool': Expensive toy with no apparent function ;)

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy  TeleDynamics Communications Inc
 Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0557.4a673d945072f8ec9ef08a4366f25bc1.eml000066400000000000000000000065151444326627400311460ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  9 10:46:03 2002
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To: fork@example.com
Subject: earthviewer (was Re: whoa}
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On 9/8/02 7:38 AM, "Gary Lawrence Murphy"  wrote:
>   J> ...  If you want a region of the globe mapped out to a very
>   J> high resolution (e.g. 1-meter), they can scan the area with
>   J> aircraft LIDAR and add it to the database, thereby making that
>   J> region zoomable to the resolution of the database for that
>   J> area.  
> 
> Can you give us an example of an application where 1-m resolution
> would be worth the considerable expense?

Planning battle tactics; for this reason, the intelligence press
reports, spy satellites have had 1-meter resolution for many years.

Finding an individual vehicle in a city might occasionally be possible
with 1-m images and might occasionally also be worth the money.

For small areas you have legitimate access to, it's probably cheaper
to go there with a digital camera and a GPS and take some snapshots
from ground level.  Aerial photos might be cheaper for large areas,
areas where you're not allowed --- or, perhaps, physically able --- to
go, and cases where you don't have time to send a ground guy around
the whole area.

-- 
       Kragen Sitaker     
Edsger Wybe Dijkstra died in August of 2002.  The world has lost a great
man.  See http://advogato.org/person/raph/diary.html?start=252 and
http://www.kode-fu.com/geek/2002_08_04_archive.shtml for details.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0558.38c3bacad7e79fdf03dfdfcbfd19e787.eml000066400000000000000000000120451444326627400317500ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  9 10:46:06 2002
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From: James Rogers 
Subject: Re: whoa
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On 9/8/02 3:16 PM, "Gary Lawrence Murphy"  wrote:
>>>>>> "J" == James Rogers  writes:
> 
>   J> An example: Being able to model RF propagation in three
>   J> dimensions for a metro area when deploying wireless networks.
>   J> By having every single tree and building detail and similar,
>   J> you can "see" even tiny dead spots due to physical blockage and
>   J> signal attenuation.
> 
> Hmmm, just as I thought.  In other words, it has no practical uses
> whatsoever ;) ... do the biz guys in your office /really/ think WISPs
> are really going to shell out /their/ money to find a house or two
> they can't reach?  Experience suggests (a) they won't care and (b)
> they will even sign up that errant house and then give them a
> run-around blaming the dead-spot on "unsupported vendor equipment".


Errrr....the biz guys in my office don't care what the "WISPs" want to do
with their little WiFi networks.  And the bandwidth shadows in most cities
are surprisingly large and common.  They aren't selling the software, which
is pretty pricy as it happens.  They are using it to optimize next
generation wireless canopies over metro areas and fiber networks on a large
scale.  There are an essentially infinite number of metro wireless
configurations, some of which generate far more dead or marginal spots and
others which are very expensive to operate (due to backhaul transit
considerations) or both.  This software can be used as a tool to optimize
the canopy coverage and minimize the actual transit costs since the wireless
is tied into fiber at multiple points.

The canopies we are talking about aren't short-range wifi technologies, but
a mixture of long-range high-performance wireless networking, with bandwidth
measured in tens to hundreds of mbits and ranges measured in miles (up to
well over a hundred miles on the extreme end).  At those ranges and
bandwidth levels, the cost of providing the network can easily vary by an
order of magnitude or more depending on how you manage RF shadows and
proximity to fiber access points.  The idea ultimately is to optimize the
cost and performance such that no existing network infrastructure providers
can remotely compete and maintain profitability.  This is a surprisingly low
bar, and it is about time networks were designed with this level of
large-scale optimization (cost per mbit, maximizing coverage, and effective
bandwidth available per unit area) in any case.  And for this company's
long-term plans, this type of capability will be absolutely necessary to
keep things sane.

Or at least investors find this capability very sexy and compelling,
especially since we have this lovely visualization engine tied into the
system (CLI batches never have the same effect, even if it is more
efficient).

-James Rogers
 jamesr@best.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0559.2c60829e4147cdc981cf7131088b851d.eml000066400000000000000000000053531444326627400310020ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  9 10:46:15 2002
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From: Tom 
To: Eugen Leitl 
Cc: Gordon Mohr , 
Subject: Re: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Eugen Leitl wrote:

--]doesn't look particularly difficult to do.
--]
--]Clearly this is not something what hets do, prostitution not taken into
--]account.

So lets see, hets dont go to swing clubs, meat markets or the like at all?
Hmm. And being gay means hanging in the bath house being a cum dumpster
while you listen to the Devine Ms M belt one out for the boys?

Ugh, with thinking like this who needs the bible belt?





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who watched Lathe of Heaven?  (A&E, 8 pm EDT)  who has seen the original?

if it's airing now on the west coast, do catch it.

gg


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To: kragen@pobox.com (Kragen Sitaker)
Cc: fork@example.com
Subject: Re: earthviewer (was Re: whoa}
References: <20020908232416.51F943F4E8@panacea.canonical.org>
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
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>>>>> "K" == Kragen Sitaker  writes:

    K> Planning battle tactics; for this reason, the intelligence
    K> press reports, spy satellites have had 1-meter resolution for
    K> many years.

The military already have these spy satellites; they are basically
Hubble pointed the other way, so I doubt they will be a big enough
customer of this service to justify a next-generation wireless
network rollout for the rest of us.

    K> Finding an individual vehicle in a city might occasionally be
    K> possible with 1-m images and might occasionally also be worth
    K> the money.

My car is only just over 1.5 meters across and maybe 3 meters long, so
that means roughly six pixels total surface area.  You might find a
16-wheeler this way, but how often do people misplace a 16-wheeler
such that it is _that_ important to get old images of the terrain?
Since they can't send up aircraft to update images in realtime every
time, how is this different from just releasing the map on DVDs?  Why
wireless?

I thought of the common problem of lost prize cattle, but there again,
will there really be business-case for creating a hi-res map of
wyoming on the fly instead of just doing what they do now and hiring a
helicopter for a few hours?

    K> For small areas you have legitimate access to, it's probably
    K> cheaper to go there with a digital camera and a GPS and take
    K> some snapshots from ground level.  Aerial photos might be
    K> cheaper for large areas, areas where you're not allowed --- or,
    K> perhaps, physically able --- to go, and cases where you don't
    K> have time to send a ground guy around the whole area.

I can see lower-res being useful for Geologists, but considering their
points of interest change only a few times every few million years,
there's not much need to be wireless based on up-to-the-minute data.
I expect most geologists travel with a laptop perfectly capable of DVD
playback, and I also expect the most interesting geology is in regions
where the wireless ain't going to go ;)

I don't mean to nit-pick, it's just that I'm curious as to (a) the
need for this product that justifies the extreme cost and (b) how we'd
justify the ubiquitous next-generation wireless network that this
product postulates when we /still/ can't find the killer app for 3G.

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy  TeleDynamics Communications Inc
 Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)


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To: James Rogers 
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>>>>> "J" == James Rogers  writes:

    J> ...  They aren't selling the software, which is pretty pricy as
    J> it happens.  They are using it to optimize next generation
    J> wireless canopies over metro areas and fiber networks on a
    J> large scale.  There are an essentially infinite number of metro
    J> wireless configurations, some of which generate far more dead
    J> or marginal spots and others which are very expensive to
    J> operate (due to backhaul transit considerations) or both.  This
    J> software can be used as a tool to optimize the canopy coverage
    J> and minimize the actual transit costs since the wireless is
    J> tied into fiber at multiple points.

So you only need to map a handful of metropolitan areas?

    J> Or at least investors find this capability very sexy and
    J> compelling

Ah ... now /that/ I will believe :)

Don't mind me; I'm just getting even more cynical in my old age.   

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy  TeleDynamics Communications Inc
 Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0563.cc76540c47ac49aa8dcbe801e8380b36.eml000066400000000000000000000067411444326627400312660ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  9 10:46:24 2002
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From: James Rogers 
Subject: Re: earthviewer (was Re: whoa}
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On 9/8/02 8:09 PM, "Gary Lawrence Murphy"  wrote:
> My car is only just over 1.5 meters across and maybe 3 meters long, so
> that means roughly six pixels total surface area.  You might find a
> 16-wheeler this way, but how often do people misplace a 16-wheeler
> such that it is _that_ important to get old images of the terrain?
> Since they can't send up aircraft to update images in realtime every
> time, how is this different from just releasing the map on DVDs?  Why
> wireless?


It seems that several people are missing the point that this is NOT an image
database.  It is high-resolution topological data rendered in three
dimensions.  Images are overlayed on the topological data to help people
navigate familiar terrain visually.  In other words, it is not intended as a
wannabe spy satellite.  Rather it is a very accurate three dimensional model
of the earth's surface.  When a particular region in question is covered in
a city, the buildings in the city are mapped as though they are part of the
earth's surface.  The part that makes the app killer is that you can map all
sorts of data layers on top of their core topological data.

Got it?

-James Rogers
 jamesr@best.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0564.d200fee3d675d75d79f14c8308d631d1.eml000066400000000000000000000061001444326627400311240ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  9 10:46:25 2002
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From: CDale 
To: Tom 
Cc: Eugen Leitl , Gordon Mohr ,
	
Subject: Re: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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I agree w/ ya Tom.  That kind of thinking is SO idiotic.  Sure, gays are 
promiscuous, and so are hets, but I betcha gays are more AIDSphobic than 
hets, generally speaking....
C

On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Tom wrote:

> On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Eugen Leitl wrote:
> 
> --]doesn't look particularly difficult to do.
> --]
> --]Clearly this is not something what hets do, prostitution not taken into
> --]account.
> 
> So lets see, hets dont go to swing clubs, meat markets or the like at all?
> Hmm. And being gay means hanging in the bath house being a cum dumpster
> while you listen to the Devine Ms M belt one out for the boys?
> 
> Ugh, with thinking like this who needs the bible belt?
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0565.881770e64b20fa8ee779d12aeda1fc54.eml000066400000000000000000000065061444326627400312770ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  9 10:46:28 2002
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References:  
Subject: earthviewer apps Re: whoa
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Gary Lawrence Murphy cynicizes:
> Hmmm, just as I thought.  In other words, it has no practical uses
> whatsoever ;) 

Tourism is the world's largest industry. Using this
to preview your travels, or figure out where you are,
would be very valuable.

Online gaming continues to grow. Screw "Britannia", 
real-life Britain would be a fun world to wander/
conquer/explore virtually, in role-playing or real-
time-strategy games.

And of course, as James Rogers points out, it's an
ideal display substrate for all sorts of other 
overlaid data. Maps are great, photrealistic 3-D
maps of everywhere which can have many other static 
and dynamic datasets overlaid are spectacular. 

(Combining those last two thoughts: consider the
static world map, in faded colors, with patches
here-and-there covered by live webcams, stitched
over the static info in bright colors... it'd be
like the "fog of war" view in games like Warcraft,
over the real world.)

- Gordon




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To: James Rogers 
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Subject: Re: earthviewer (was Re: whoa}
References: 
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
X-Home-Page: http://www.teledyn.com
Organization: TCI Business Innovation through Open Source Computing
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>>>>> "J" == James Rogers  writes:

    J> ...  The part that makes the app killer is that you can map all
    J> sorts of data layers on top of their core topological data.

    J> Got it?

Ah, ok ... so some sample applications come to mind, although none of
them require wireless and would do with a DVD, but nonetheless ...

- Forestry: Maps of the terrain are essential in predicting the spread
of forest fires, esp if this is overlaid with the type of vegetation,
recent waterfall &c

- farming/conservation can use the high-resolution terrain to overlay
water tables or watershed info.

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy  TeleDynamics Communications Inc
 Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)


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On 8 Sep 2002 at 22:15, Geege Schuman wrote:

> who watched Lathe of Heaven?  (A&E, 8 pm EDT)  who has seen
> the original?
> 
By "original" if you are referring to the old PBS version, I liked that version much better.  Much more thought provoking.


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From: Eugen Leitl 
To: CDale 
Cc: Tom , Gordon Mohr ,
	
Subject: Re: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, CDale wrote:

> I agree w/ ya Tom.  That kind of thinking is SO idiotic.  Sure, gays

So how many of your hetero friends had >3 k lovers?

> are promiscuous, and so are hets, but I betcha gays are more
> AIDSphobic than hets, generally speaking....

The virus load issue is orthogonal to the fact. Bzzt. Switch on your
brain, you both. I was mentioning that a subpopulation outside of the sex
industry is/used to be extremely promiscuous, about two orders of
magnitude higher than average.




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Agreed, completely.  I totally grokked the notion of unintened consequence
with the original.

-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of John
Evdemon
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 7:03 AM
To: Fork@xent.com
Subject: Re: Recommended Viewing


On 8 Sep 2002 at 22:15, Geege Schuman wrote:

> who watched Lathe of Heaven?  (A&E, 8 pm EDT)  who has seen
> the original?
>
By "original" if you are referring to the old PBS version, I liked that
version much better.  Much more thought provoking.





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ok i read back, thats not a typo, you mean three thousand lovers.
where do you get your data? It seems very unlikely, but if you have 
supporting evidence i'd like to see it.

Chris

On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Eugen Leitl wrote:

> On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, CDale wrote:
> 
> > I agree w/ ya Tom.  That kind of thinking is SO idiotic.  Sure, gays
> 
> So how many of your hetero friends had >3 k lovers?
> 
> > are promiscuous, and so are hets, but I betcha gays are more
> > AIDSphobic than hets, generally speaking....
> 
> The virus load issue is orthogonal to the fact. Bzzt. Switch on your
> brain, you both. I was mentioning that a subpopulation outside of the sex
> industry is/used to be extremely promiscuous, about two orders of
> magnitude higher than average.
> 
> 
> 


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0571.d336e43297da0069689d70dec6ff7870.eml000066400000000000000000000064171444326627400310760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  9 14:34:38 2002
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On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Chris Haun wrote:

> ok i read back, thats not a typo, you mean three thousand lovers.
> where do you get your data? It seems very unlikely, but if you have 
> supporting evidence i'd like to see it.

I haven't seen any official data on the web (the high-ranking hits are 
overrun by religious bigots), but there's some anecdotal evidence to be 
found in

	http://sunsite.berkeley.edu:2020/dynaweb/teiproj/oh/science/aidsnur2/@Generic__BookTextView/5406

(search for promiscuity). They mention 300 to 500 partners a year. 
(Anecdotally. This is not a statistic). They also mention that this was 
specific to gay males. Lesbians don't dig promiscuity in that degree.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0572.ff4614fcac266492c9c3c1a9432cbe89.eml000066400000000000000000000107231444326627400312730ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  9 19:27:24 2002
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EL> On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, CDale wrote:

>> I agree w/ ya Tom.  That kind of thinking is SO idiotic.  Sure, gays

EL> So how many of your hetero friends had >3 k lovers?

So Eugen, how many of your homo friends have -had- 3k lovers?

In fact, thats a general question for FoRK proper.

Do you know anyone, outside of meybee Wilt Chamberlin and a few of the
gang-bang porn queens who -have- had even 1.5k lovers?

Eegads, if you're hypothesizing numbers like -that- Eugen, you at
least owe it to FoRK to back that shit up.

Otherwise we're liable to assume rampant unfounded homophobia and that
would just be a lose.

Just a quick assumption here.   I'm not a math geek or anything, but
assuming 1 lover every day, that would be like at least one lover
everyday for 8 years and some change.   I don't know about you, but
very very few of us are -that- lucky (or even close to that lucky)
and after awhile, even the sexaholics get bored and have to mingle
something new into their weekends.   You really are assumiing that the
homosexual population is a) that large in a given area (The meccas
might qualify, but try finding that kind of homosexual population in
say, Tulsa, Oklahoma or Manchester, NH (Tho Manchester does have quite
a few nifty gaybars, but thats a different story)  b) that bored/sex
obsessed/recreationally free to pursue sex that often, with that many
partners or that they'd even WANT that many partners.

Qualify yourself, or at least lower your outrageous numbers.

=BB
>> are promiscuous, and so are hets, but I betcha gays are more
>> AIDSphobic than hets, generally speaking....

EL> The virus load issue is orthogonal to the fact. Bzzt. Switch on your
EL> brain, you both. I was mentioning that a subpopulation outside of the sex
EL> industry is/used to be extremely promiscuous, about two orders of
EL> magnitude higher than average.






-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                            mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


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In addition, one bit of anecdotal evidence from a conversation in
1984! in San Fransisco is hardly enough to extrapolate 500 to 3k.

This is the only quote I could find relating to promiscuity in
homosexual men.

"I think people feel a certain invulnerability, especially young
people, like this disease doesn't affect me. The publicity about the disease was very much the kind where it was easy to say, "That isn't me. I'm not promiscuous." Promiscuity, especially, was a piece where people could easily say, "Well, I'm not. Promiscuous is more than I do." If you have 300 partners a year, you can think you're not promiscuous if you know somebody who has 500. So it's all relative, and it was easy to feel that that isn't me."

You could find hets who have the same kind of partner volume.  BFD.
This kind of random generation of numbers that leads the nutty
religious bigots (as you mentioned earlier).

Grr.   Bits damnit.  Now, I must go brief.

-BB


EL>> On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, CDale wrote:

>>> I agree w/ ya Tom.  That kind of thinking is SO idiotic.  Sure, gays

EL>> So how many of your hetero friends had >3 k lovers?

bmn> So Eugen, how many of your homo friends have -had- 3k lovers?

bmn> In fact, thats a general question for FoRK proper.

bmn> Do you know anyone, outside of meybee Wilt Chamberlin and a few of the
bmn> gang-bang porn queens who -have- had even 1.5k lovers?

bmn> Eegads, if you're hypothesizing numbers like -that- Eugen, you at
bmn> least owe it to FoRK to back that shit up.

bmn> Otherwise we're liable to assume rampant unfounded homophobia and that
bmn> would just be a lose.

bmn> Just a quick assumption here.   I'm not a math geek or anything, but
bmn> assuming 1 lover every day, that would be like at least one lover
bmn> everyday for 8 years and some change.   I don't know about you, but
bmn> very very few of us are -that- lucky (or even close to that lucky)
bmn> and after awhile, even the sexaholics get bored and have to mingle
bmn> something new into their weekends.   You really are assumiing that the
bmn> homosexual population is a) that large in a given area (The meccas
bmn> might qualify, but try finding that kind of homosexual population in
bmn> say, Tulsa, Oklahoma or Manchester, NH (Tho Manchester does have quite
bmn> a few nifty gaybars, but thats a different story)  b) that bored/sex
bmn> obsessed/recreationally free to pursue sex that often, with that many
bmn> partners or that they'd even WANT that many partners.

bmn> Qualify yourself, or at least lower your outrageous numbers.

bmn> =BB
>>> are promiscuous, and so are hets, but I betcha gays are more
>>> AIDSphobic than hets, generally speaking....

EL>> The virus load issue is orthogonal to the fact. Bzzt. Switch on your
EL>> brain, you both. I was mentioning that a subpopulation outside of the sex
EL>> industry is/used to be extremely promiscuous, about two orders of
EL>> magnitude higher than average.









-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                            mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


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To: bitbitch@magnesium.net
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> So Eugen, how many of your homo friends have -had- 3k lovers?
> 
> In fact, thats a general question for FoRK proper.

Uh, zero.  I'm sort of offended at having to take this question seriously,
like being black and having to actually explain that black people don't
all sing and dance.  I'd guess that gay men compared to straight men have
a linearly greater number of sexual partners on the order of 1.5-2X.  But
then again, it not a monolithic or homogeneous community.  Who knows?

3K is utter shite.

- Lucas




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On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, Gordon Mohr wrote:

--]Gary Lawrence Murphy cynicizes:
--]> Hmmm, just as I thought.  In other words, it has no practical uses
--]> whatsoever ;)
--]
--]Online gaming continues to grow. Screw "Britannia",
--]real-life Britain would be a fun world to wander/
--]conquer/explore virtually, in role-playing or real-
--]time-strategy games.


Andthus....Geocaching.....this would make a nice little "let me check this
set of coord out before we trek into 10 feet of quicksand"



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On Mon, 9 Sep 2002 bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:

> So Eugen, how many of your homo friends have -had- 3k lovers?

Just one. Not everybody does that. Most of them are now dead, anyway.
 
> Do you know anyone, outside of meybee Wilt Chamberlin and a few of the
> gang-bang porn queens who -have- had even 1.5k lovers?

Yes. Notice that I've specifically excluded sex industry. That be 
cheating.
 
> Eegads, if you're hypothesizing numbers like -that- Eugen, you at
> least owe it to FoRK to back that shit up.

Ain't done no hypothesizing. Anecdotal evidence'R'Us. Couldn't you just
Google, or something?
 
> Otherwise we're liable to assume rampant unfounded homophobia and that
> would just be a lose.

Yeah, I'm a gay Jew Nazi Muslim who's also a lead character on Kaz's
underworld. Can we go on with the programme now?
 
> Just a quick assumption here.   I'm not a math geek or anything, but
> assuming 1 lover every day, that would be like at least one lover
> everyday for 8 years and some change.   I don't know about you, but
> very very few of us are -that- lucky (or even close to that lucky)

Which was my point. Gurls don't do hyperpromiscuity as a life style. It's
interesting that you're launching into a diatribe, and threaten using
instant argument (just add hominem) instead of assuming I might be not
just pulling this whole thing out my nether orifice.

> and after awhile, even the sexaholics get bored and have to mingle
> something new into their weekends.   You really are assumiing that the
> homosexual population is a) that large in a given area (The meccas

You ever been to San Francisco?

> might qualify, but try finding that kind of homosexual population in
> say, Tulsa, Oklahoma or Manchester, NH (Tho Manchester does have quite

Yeah, I think it could be also difficult finding a gay bathhouse in Thule,
Greenland. Or parts of central Africa. To think of it, both Oort and 
Kuiper belts are utterly devoid of gay people as well. Isn't this 
remarkable?

> a few nifty gaybars, but thats a different story)  b) that bored/sex
> obsessed/recreationally free to pursue sex that often, with that many
> partners or that they'd even WANT that many partners.

This doesn't happen because it couldn't happen. No one would want to. 
Because you feel that way. Correct?

> Qualify yourself, or at least lower your outrageous numbers.

I didn't expect so much reflexive knee-jerking on this list.


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From: Tom 
To: Lucas Gonze 
Cc: bitbitch@magnesium.net, FoRK 
Subject: Re[2]: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Lucas Gonze wrote:

--]3K is utter shite.
--]

3k is a number that probably sounds good to some closted  homophobe with
secret desires to be "belle of the balls". Twinks dinks and dorks, this
thread sounds to me like someone needs a little luvin.



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On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Lucas Gonze wrote:

> a linearly greater number of sexual partners on the order of 1.5-2X.  But
> then again, it not a monolithic or homogeneous community.  Who knows?

Did I claim "all gay people are hyperpromiscuous"? For what this is worth,
I would claim they're considerably more promiscuous on the average than
your average het. My utterly unscientific, unsubstatiated claim is that
the typical male would *like* to be considerably more promiscous than your
average female (ay, and here's the rub. pray don't forget the kleenex).  
Look up different reproduction strategies, due to basic hardware
difference (sexual dimorphism). You'd do that too if it happened to you.

Once you go past the first three of four pages of hysterical propaganda on
Google you might actually run into real studies. Anyone game? I have to 
work (well, pretend to).
 
> 3K is utter shite.

This is getting better and better. You know 3K is utter shite how? You
just feel the number can't be right, yes? Deep inside? I'm way overposting
today, but I find this entire exchange hee-lay-rious. 


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Tom wrote:
> 3k is a number that probably sounds good to some closted  homophobe with
> secret desires to be "belle of the balls". Twinks dinks and dorks, this
> thread sounds to me like someone needs a little luvin.

I dunno if I'd accuse everybody who believes the 3K number of needing a
little luvin, but I completely believe that this myth has survived because
there's a lot of people who need more lovin.  Plus it fits in with a bunch
of different archetypes.

- Lucas




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EL> On Mon, 9 Sep 2002 bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:

>> So Eugen, how many of your homo friends have -had- 3k lovers?

EL> Just one. Not everybody does that. Most of them are now dead, anyway.

Point is, you're not likely to extrapolate much.  I could probably
find one hetero who had just as much sex.   Does that mean we're all
rampant hos?  No.


>> Eegads, if you're hypothesizing numbers like -that- Eugen, you at
>> least owe it to FoRK to back that shit up.

EL> Ain't done no hypothesizing. Anecdotal evidence'R'Us. Couldn't you just
EL> Google, or something?

Listen.  If you pull numbers like that without a fact, the automagic
assumption is yes, they were extracted out of your neither orifice.
Point wasn't to conclude otherwise unless you had any relevant bits.
Its not my job to do _your_ bit searching for you, but I figured I'd
humor fork with this bit of finding:

http://www.thebody.com/bp/apr01/research_notebook.html  (Pointing ot
averages of about 13 for every 3 months (for gay men), which totals to
about  52 a year.  52 a year doesn't equal 3000.   Or even 300.


>> Just a quick assumption here.   I'm not a math geek or anything, but
>> assuming 1 lover every day, that would be like at least one lover
>> everyday for 8 years and some change.   I don't know about you, but
>> very very few of us are -that- lucky (or even close to that lucky)

EL> Which was my point. Gurls don't do hyperpromiscuity as a life style. It's
EL> interesting that you're launching into a diatribe, and threaten using
EL> instant argument (just add hominem) instead of assuming I might be not
EL> just pulling this whole thing out my nether orifice.

WTF do my shitty math skillz have to do with girls and
hyperpromiscuity?  I was speaking -generally- meaning that guys and
girls probably have better things to do than boink everything they
see.  As above, I am assuming you're pulling things out of your ass, I
just felt like calling you on it.

BTW, there's nothing wrong with calling someone on a silly idea.  Its
allowed, and its generally not considered ad hominem, but the
homophobia statement might be.

>> and after awhile, even the sexaholics get bored and have to mingle
>> something new into their weekends.   You really are assumiing that the
>> homosexual population is a) that large in a given area (The meccas

EL> You ever been to San Francisco?

Many times.  Which is why I said 'assuming that large ... (The meccas
dont count).  SF is a mecca in this example.  I obviously wasn't
clear, tho one could assume I wasn't talking about Medina.



>> a few nifty gaybars, but thats a different story)  b) that bored/sex
>> obsessed/recreationally free to pursue sex that often, with that many
>> partners or that they'd even WANT that many partners.

EL> This doesn't happen because it couldn't happen. No one would want to. 
EL> Because you feel that way. Correct?

doesn't happen?  true.   Couldn't happen?  who knows.   It has nothing
to do with how I 'feel' and everything to do with the fact that people
do concern themselves with more than just sex (otherwise I think we'd
see a helluva lot more of sex, and a helluva lot less of everything
else).


>> Qualify yourself, or at least lower your outrageous numbers.

EL> I didn't expect so much reflexive knee-jerking on this list.

Well my suggestion is, if you can't take the responses, don't post
flamebait.







-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                            mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


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On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Eugen Leitl wrote:

> On Sun, 8 Sep 2002, CDale wrote:
> 
> > I agree w/ ya Tom.  That kind of thinking is SO idiotic.  Sure, gays
> 
> So how many of your hetero friends had >3 k lovers?

None.  How many of my gay friends have had > 3k lovers?  None.

> 
> > are promiscuous, and so are hets, but I betcha gays are more
> > AIDSphobic than hets, generally speaking....
> 
> The virus load issue is orthogonal to the fact. Bzzt. Switch on your
> brain, you both. I was mentioning that a subpopulation outside of the sex
> industry is/used to be extremely promiscuous, about two orders of
> magnitude higher than average.


two orders of magnitude higher than average isn't 3k, I don't think.  Why 
don't ya give us a url or something that told you all this stuff?  Or did 
you just pull it out of your ass?  (:
C


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From: Lucas Gonze 
X-X-Sender: lgonze@localhost.localdomain
Cc: FoRK 
Subject: Re[2]: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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> This is getting better and better. You know 3K is utter shite how? 

I'm not going to be your spokesman, Eugen.  Figure it out yourself.

over and out.



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0583.5165cf3ccd9404fade3014b0d00c97e6.eml000066400000000000000000000101661444326627400312510ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  9 19:27:46 2002
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From: "Gordon Mohr" 
To: 
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    <15773384464.20020909103246@magnesium.net>
Subject: Re: Re[3]: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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Bitbitch writes:
> Listen.  If you pull numbers like that without a fact, the automagic
> assumption is yes, they were extracted out of your neither orifice.
> Point wasn't to conclude otherwise unless you had any relevant bits.
> Its not my job to do _your_ bit searching for you, but I figured I'd
> humor fork with this bit of finding:
> 
> http://www.thebody.com/bp/apr01/research_notebook.html  (Pointing ot
> averages of about 13 for every 3 months (for gay men), which totals to
> about  52 a year.  52 a year doesn't equal 3000.   Or even 300.

Er, that study would seem to lend credence to Eugen's
estimations, rather than casting fresh doubts. 

52 a year *does* exceed 300, in under 6 years' time. The average
age of that study's participants was *39* -- meaning some 
participants may have had 20-25+ years of active sex life. 

At that age, and further ** HIV+ **, it seems reasonable to
think that some the participants may have actually slowed 
their pace a bit. 

So while this study's summary info is incomplete, you could 
easily conclude that the *average* participant in this one study
will have had over a thousand partners over a 40-50+ year active 
sex life, and so the even-more-active tails of the distribution
could easily be in the 3000+ range.

Of course this says very little, almost nothing, about the overall 
population behavior, gay or straight, and the relative prevalence
of 3K+ individuals in either group. But it does strongly suggest 
that gay males with 3K+ partners exist in measurable numbers, so
people should stop treating Eugen's anecdotal estimation as if it
were sheer fantasy. BitBitch's own citation suggests otherwise.

- Gordon



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0584.f667c1b60fb4a592ef72138de5ec4c00.eml000066400000000000000000000200411444326627400312560ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  9 19:27:49 2002
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--- begin forwarded text


Status: RO
Priority: normal
Date:         Mon, 9 Sep 2002 08:56:49 +0000
Reply-To:     Law & Policy of Computer Communications

Sender:       Law & Policy of Computer Communications

Comments:     Authenticated sender is jakobs@i4mail.informatik.rwth-aachen.de
From:         Kai Jakobs 
Subject: [CYBERIA] [Final CfP]: Int. J. on IT Standards Research
To:           CYBERIA-L@LISTSERV.AOL.COM

Hello,

Just a brief reminder that the deadline for submisisons for issue 2
of the

'International Journal of IT Standards & Standardization Research' (JITSR)

is October 1.

JITSR is a  new, multi-disciplinary publication outlet for everyone who
is doing research into IT standards and standardisation (from whichever
perspective).

So if you think you've got a paper that might fit - why not submit
it for JITSR?

And please do ask if you need any further information.


Greetings from Aachen.

Cheers,
Kai.


-----------------------------


Call for Papers

for Issue 2 of the

International Journal of
IT Standards & Standardization Research


This new journal aims to be a platform for presenting, and
discussing, the broad variety of aspects that make up IT standards
research. This includes, but is certainly not limited to,
contributions from the disciplines of computer science, information
systems, management, business, social sciences (especially science
and technology studies), economics, engineering, political science,
public policy, sociology, communication, and human factors/
usability. In particular, the journal wants to both support and
promote multi-disciplinary research on IT standards; 'IT'
should be understood in a very broad sense.

Topics to be covered include, but are not limited to:

 - Technological innovation and standardisation
 - Standards for information infrastructures
 - Standardisation and economic development
 - Open Source and standardisation
 - Intellectual property rights
 - Economics of standardisation
 - Emerging roles of formal standards organisations and consortia
 - Conformity assessment
 - National, regional, international and corporate standards
   strategies
 - Standardisation and regulation
 - Standardisation as a form of the Public Sphere
 - Standardisation and public policy formation
 - Analyses of standards setting processes, products, and
   organisation
 - Case studies of standardisation
 - Impacts of market-driven standardisation and emerging players
 - The future of standardisation
 - Multinational and transnational perspectives and impacts
 - Commercial value of proprietary specifications
 - Descriptive & prescriptive theories of standardisation
 - Standards research and education activities
 - Tools and services supporting improved standardisation
 - User related issues
 - Risks of standardisation
 - Management of standards
 - History of Standards
 - Standards and technology transfer

Authors are requested to submit their manuscripts as an e-mail
attachment in RTF or PDF to the editor-in-chief at
Kai.Jakobs@i4.informatik.rwth-aachen.de.

If this form of submission is not possible, please send one hardcopy
of the manuscript together with a disk containing the electronic
version of the manuscript in RTF or PDF to:
Kai Jakobs,
Technical University of Aachen, Computer Science Department,
Informatik IV
Ahornstr. 55, D-52074 Aachen, Germany.

Manuscripts must be written in English on letter-size or A4 paper,
one side only, double-spaced throughout, and include at least 1"
(2.54 cm) of margin on all sides. The cover page should contain the
paper title, and the name, affiliation, address, phone number, fax
number, and e-mail address of each author. The second page should
start with the paper title at the top and be immediately followed by
the abstract. Except on the cover page, the authors' names and
affiliations must NOT appear in the manuscript. The abstract of 100-
150 words should clearly summarise the objectives and content of the
manuscript. Submitted manuscript should normally be 4000-6000 words
long; longer ones will be considered but may be subject to editorial
revision.

Submission of a paper implies that its content is original and that
it has not been published previously, and that it is not under
consideration for publication elsewhere. Yet, significantly extended
papers previously presented at conferences may be acceptable.

For more information please see
http://www-i4.informatik.rwth-aachen.de/~jakobs/standards_journal/journal_home.html

or visit the publisher's web site at
http://www.idea-group.com/journals/details.asp?id=497


Important Dates for the Inaugural Issue:

Submission Deadline for Issue 2:   October 1, 2002
Notification of Acceptance:        December 1, 2002
Camera-ready Paper Due:            January 15, 2003


________________________________________________________________


Kai Jakobs

Technical University of Aachen
Computer Science Department
Informatik IV (Communication and Distributed Systems)
Ahornstr. 55, D-52074 Aachen, Germany
Tel.: +49-241-80-21405
Fax:  +49-241-80-22220
Kai.Jakobs@i4.informatik.rwth-aachen.de
http://www-i4.informatik.rwth-aachen.de/~jakobs/kai/kai_home.html


**********************************************************************
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--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0585.b4410217f9fefbb9a9c18df5a4aa621a.eml000066400000000000000000000100741444326627400314150ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  9 19:27:51 2002
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Subject: Internet radio - example from a college station
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Just thought i'd pass this on, my favorite radio station in raleigh is 
going off the internet due to the new fees and restrictions associated 
with remaining online.  this is from the station manager and describes the 
situation.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 13:13:17 -0400
From: Arielle 
Subject: RE: KNC Stream [1:51144:51751]

This message was sent from: WKNC Chat.
 
----------------------------------------------------------------

It does, but it's not the cost that is causing us to shut it down. The cost
is a "minimum $500 per year"... but that only accounts for 18 people
streaming and playing like 13 or 14 songs an hour. But we could maybe manage
the 2 cents per person, per 100 songs.

The problem comes with the record keeping they mandate with webstreaming.
Start and end times for every song (not too hard), artist (okay), title
(okay), composers (a little harder), serial number (wtf??). I think there
are a few more things they wanted, but honestly, programming this info in
for every song that we play is ridiculous. This means we'd also have to get
all the DJs to find this info and write it down any time they play a
request, vinyl, or CDs not loaded into the computer. It's ridiculous and
nearly impossible...

We would need someone to sit in the studio 24/7 writing down all this info -
which sometimes isn't available, like from earlier album that don't have
serial numbers and barcodes. Then still if only the magic 18 people
webstream our signal, the price would become quite exponential since we play
on average 16 songs an hour, we'd be paying $22.11 everyday to stream to
those 18 people. So really, it does have to do with the internet tax, but it
is a few reasons together why we can't do it after their kill-date. :(


----------------------------------------------------------------
Sent using Phorum software version 3.2.6  


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0586.1babcf27c7404be5cacd809ef42fc30b.eml000066400000000000000000000102531444326627400315460ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  9 19:27:58 2002
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From: ThosStew@aol.com
Message-Id: <3e.23ec2d20.2aae2118@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Re[3]: Selling Wedded Bliss (was Re: Ouch...)
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Here are numbers that come from a study of a couple of thousand swedes, with 
no reference to sexual preference that I could find. The point would seem to 
be that (1) sexual activity follows a power curve, with a few people, a la 
Wilt Chamberlain, having an extaordinarily large number of sexual contacts, 
ev en in a short period of time and (2) a tendency for men to have more 
partners than women.  I have no idea, being a statistical ignoramus, whether 
the fact that there seem to be more men than women at the extremely 
promiscuous end of the sex-partners-distribution curve means that you'd get 
even more extreme results in a group of men who chiefly have sex with other 
men. 


http://polymer.bu.edu/~amaral/Sex_partners/Content_sex.html

<>


As for gay men: There is indeed anecdotal evidence of cases of extreme 
promiscuity among gay men. You can read about it in Randy Schiltz's And the 
Band Played On. He writes about  bathhouse culture pre-HIV; he also discusses 
how, in the gay politics of the time, there was a sub-culture of what you 
might call radical gay men who argued (and acted on the argument) that having 
many partners was an essential part of what being gay actually was. It was an 
explicitly political statement: monogamy is an artifact of straight culture.
    That view seems to have died, in more ways than one. Part of the point of 
Schiltz's book was to condemn the role that it and  bathhouse culture played 
in spreading the AIDs epidemic that eventually killed Schiltz, among so many 
others. This doesn't let Eugen off the hook--but it is accurate to say that 
there was a  cult of promiscuity that was particular to the gay community.

Tom


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Chris Haun wrote:
> 
> We would need someone to sit in the studio 24/7 writing down all this info -
> which sometimes isn't available, like from earlier album that don't have
> serial numbers and barcodes. Then still if only the magic 18 people
> webstream our signal, the price would become quite exponential since we play
> on average 16 songs an hour, we'd be paying $22.11 everyday to stream to
> those 18 people. So really, it does have to do with the internet tax, but it
> is a few reasons together why we can't do it after their kill-date. :(

Who is John Galt?

(RoUS in the throes of reading Atlas Shrugged again)
-- 
#ken	P-)}

Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini  http://Golux.Com/coar/
Author, developer, opinionist      http://Apache-Server.Com/

"Millennium hand and shrimp!"


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At 8:16 AM -0700 on 9/9/02, Gordon Mohr wrote:



> Of course this says very little, almost nothing, about the overall
> population behavior, gay or straight, and the relative prevalence
> of 3K+ individuals in either group. But it does strongly suggest
> that gay males with 3K+ partners exist in measurable numbers, so
> people should stop treating Eugen's anecdotal estimation as if it
> were sheer fantasy. BitBitch's own citation suggests otherwise.

That math stuff's, a, um, bitch, i'nit?

;-)

Cheers,
RAH
[Who could care less who boinks whom, or for how much, though watching the
Righteous Anger(tm) around here this morning *has* been amusing...]
-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0589.8646984ed76a8df2811750d151f56b1e.eml000066400000000000000000000071301444326627400310120ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  9 19:28:09 2002
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Why so fast?  Normal terminal velocity is much slower.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
> bitbitch@magnesium.net
> Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 8:36 AM
> To: (Robert Harley)
> Cc: fork@example.com
> Subject: Re: The Big Jump
> 
> 
> 
> So uh, would this qualify for the Darwin awards if he doesn't make it?
> 
> Freaking french people...
>    :-)
> -BB
> RH> Today a French officer called Michel Fournier is supposed to get
in a
> RH> 350-metre tall helium balloon, ride it up to the edge of space (40
km
> RH> altitude) and jump out.  His fall should last 6.5 minutes and
reach
> RH> speeds of Mach 1.5.  He hopes to open his parachute manually at
the
> RH> end, although with an automatic backup if he is 7 seconds from the
> RH> ground and still hasn't opened it.
> 
> RH> R
> 
> RH> ObQuote:
> RH>   "Veder�, si aver� si grossi li coglioni, come ha il re di
Franza."
> RH>   ("Let's see if I've got as much balls as the King of France!")
> RH>   - Pope Julius II, 2 January 1511
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Best regards,
>  bitbitch                            mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0590.163e32d267b894e61f0386e879cde23b.eml000066400000000000000000000065161444326627400310700ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  9 19:28:13 2002
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Isn't this the story where someone's "Dream" has the ability to change
reality -- then you find the whole world is their dream?




> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
Geege
> Schuman
> Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 4:26 AM
> To: John Evdemon
> Cc: fork@example.com
> Subject: RE: Recommended Viewing
> 
> Agreed, completely.  I totally grokked the notion of unintened
consequence
> with the original.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of
John
> Evdemon
> Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 7:03 AM
> To: Fork@xent.com
> Subject: Re: Recommended Viewing
> 
> 
> On 8 Sep 2002 at 22:15, Geege Schuman wrote:
> 
> > who watched Lathe of Heaven?  (A&E, 8 pm EDT)  who has seen
> > the original?
> >
> By "original" if you are referring to the old PBS version, I liked
that
> version much better.  Much more thought provoking.
> 
> 
> 



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0591.f533bea095d75cc4dc282bdcba69072a.eml000066400000000000000000000103011444326627400314040ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  9 19:28:15 2002
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John Hall wrote:

>Why so fast?  Normal terminal velocity is much slower.
>  
>
Not at 40,000 m. I found this article 
(http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,53928,00.html) :

"The last person to try to break the highest free fall record died in 
the attempt. In 1965, New Jersey truck driver Nick Piantanida suffered 
catastrophic equipment failure when his facemask blew out at 57,000 
feet. Lack of oxygen caused such severe brain damage that he went into a 
coma and died four months later."

And in amongst the flash at
http://www.legrandsaut.org/site_en/

you can discover that he will break the sound barrier at 35,000 m,
presumably reaching top speed somewhere above 30,000.

Owen

>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
>>bitbitch@magnesium.net
>>Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 8:36 AM
>>To: (Robert Harley)
>>Cc: fork@example.com
>>Subject: Re: The Big Jump
>>
>>
>>
>>So uh, would this qualify for the Darwin awards if he doesn't make it?
>>
>>Freaking french people...
>>   :-)
>>-BB
>>RH> Today a French officer called Michel Fournier is supposed to get
>>    
>>
>in a
>  
>
>>RH> 350-metre tall helium balloon, ride it up to the edge of space (40
>>    
>>
>km
>  
>
>>RH> altitude) and jump out.  His fall should last 6.5 minutes and
>>    
>>
>reach
>  
>
>>RH> speeds of Mach 1.5.  He hopes to open his parachute manually at
>>    
>>
>the
>  
>
>>RH> end, although with an automatic backup if he is 7 seconds from the
>>RH> ground and still hasn't opened it.
>>
>>RH> R
>>
>>RH> ObQuote:
>>RH>   "Veder�, si aver� si grossi li coglioni, come ha il re di
>>    
>>
>Franza."
>  
>
>>RH>   ("Let's see if I've got as much balls as the King of France!")
>>RH>   - Pope Julius II, 2 January 1511
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Best regards,
>> bitbitch                            mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net
>>    
>>
>
>
>  
>




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0592.217bf33fe765d8cf064a732d56a51ba3.eml000066400000000000000000000066561444326627400312130ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 10 11:07:16 2002
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On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 11:01:22AM -0700, John Hall wrote:
> Why so fast?  Normal terminal velocity is much slower.

Terminal velocity can be calculated by $v_{T} = \sqrt{\frac{2mg}{CpA}}$
where C is an experimentally determined coefficient, p is the density of the
air, and A is the area of the object. These calculations only work if the
object is blunt and the airflow is turbulent, blah blah blah. Terminal velocity
for a skydiver actually varies with how the diver holds themselves -- you go
faster if you pull yourself into a cannonball. That is the "A", for the
most part. 

All else being equal, the terminal velocity is inversely proportional to the
square root of air density. Air density drops off pretty quickly, and I 
really should be doing something other than digging up the math for that. I
think it involves calculus to integrate the amount of mass as the column of
the atmosphere trails off. I grabbed the other stuff directly out of a book :).

In '87 a guy named Gregory Robertson noticed a fellow parachutist Debbie 
Williams had been knocked unconscious. He shifted so that he was head down,
hit about 200 mi/h, and caught up with her and pulled her chute with 10 seconds
to spare.

-- 
njl



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0593.3c0b49542cfd173508426513c02483c6.eml000066400000000000000000000105751444326627400306210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 10 11:07:22 2002
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more accurately: someone's dream changes reality for everyone, and
everyone's memory adjusts to perceive the new realities as a continuum,
replete with new pasts and new memories.

ever have dreams that "create" their own history to make their irrealities
plausible and authentic feeling?

ever notice how the feelings evoked in some dreams stick with you all day?
i'm sure it's some neurochemical process initiated during the dream that is
still cycling thru - like a deja vu, triggered by memory processes, where
you don't actually remember but you feel like you're remembering.

ggggggggg



-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of John
Hall
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 2:03 PM
To: FoRK
Subject: RE: Recommended Viewing


Isn't this the story where someone's "Dream" has the ability to change
reality -- then you find the whole world is their dream?




> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
Geege
> Schuman
> Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 4:26 AM
> To: John Evdemon
> Cc: fork@example.com
> Subject: RE: Recommended Viewing
>
> Agreed, completely.  I totally grokked the notion of unintened
consequence
> with the original.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of
John
> Evdemon
> Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 7:03 AM
> To: Fork@xent.com
> Subject: Re: Recommended Viewing
>
>
> On 8 Sep 2002 at 22:15, Geege Schuman wrote:
>
> > who watched Lathe of Heaven?  (A&E, 8 pm EDT)  who has seen
> > the original?
> >
> By "original" if you are referring to the old PBS version, I liked
that
> version much better.  Much more thought provoking.
>
>
>







golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0594.30616a68b04f216bcea0ad52073c0df4.eml000066400000000000000000000060411444326627400311520ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 10 11:07:32 2002
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From: Eirikur Hallgrimsson 
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On Monday 09 September 2002 09:51 pm, Geege Schuman wrote
> ever notice how the feelings evoked in some dreams stick with you all
> day?i'm sure it's some neurochemical process initiated during the dream
> that is still cycling thru - like a deja vu, triggered by memory
> processes, where > you don't actually remember but you feel like you're
> remembering.

Absolutely, and I've wanted to recapture it.  I've done some writing based 
on dreams, and there is a mysterious "mood" to that feeling that drives 
some creative stuff for me.  I've never tried to write music in that 
state, but I will next time.

Eirikur




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0595.2e433fbc3ba01f085d54b39e4b695a62.eml000066400000000000000000000063601444326627400312020ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 10 11:07:34 2002
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From: CDale 
To: Eirikur Hallgrimsson 
Cc: FoRK 
Subject: Re: Recommended Viewing
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Any of your writing online anywhere?  Would love to take a look.  I was 
plagued with night terrors for years and tried to capture that feeling 
after waking up (if you want to call that waking up), but was never able 
to...
Cindy

On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Eirikur Hallgrimsson wrote:

> On Monday 09 September 2002 09:51 pm, Geege Schuman wrote
> > ever notice how the feelings evoked in some dreams stick with you all
> > day?i'm sure it's some neurochemical process initiated during the dream
> > that is still cycling thru - like a deja vu, triggered by memory
> > processes, where > you don't actually remember but you feel like you're
> > remembering.
> 
> Absolutely, and I've wanted to recapture it.  I've done some writing based 
> on dreams, and there is a mysterious "mood" to that feeling that drives 
> some creative stuff for me.  I've never tried to write music in that 
> state, but I will next time.
> 
> Eirikur
> 
> 
> 

-- 
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0596.5826fb71adb141704275e2cb8fdddb4f.eml000066400000000000000000000070201444326627400313410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 10 11:07:36 2002
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To: "Geege Schuman" 
Cc: , "FoRK" 
Subject: Re: Recommended Viewing
References: 
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
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>>>>> "G" == Geege Schuman  writes:

    G> ...  i'm sure it's some neurochemical process initiated during
    G> the dream that is still cycling thru - like a deja vu,
    G> triggered by memory processes, where you don't actually
    G> remember but you feel like you're remembering.

That's very perceptive of you.  Many people are not so willing to
accept their personal reality as skewed by their neuro-physiology.  A
great many popular con games exist by exploiting the perceptions of
these states.

Another oft-exploited neuro-plausibility: The brain is a pretty darn
fine analog associative computer, so it could be the neurochemical
events during the dream have associated themselves with some inner or
external cue to mentally _recreate_ the state-perception like the
predictable tone on striking a bell.

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy  TeleDynamics Communications Inc
 Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0597.658c7632c57e9f07a7bc28b58b97529e.eml000066400000000000000000000072001444326627400311040ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 10 11:07:41 2002
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Subject: Re: Recommended Viewing
References: 
    <200209092206.33219.eh@mad.scientist.com>
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>>>>> "E" == Eirikur Hallgrimsson  writes:

    E> Absolutely, and I've wanted to recapture it.  

I don't know about this /particular/ mood, but I have used
neuro-conditioning with aiding children in stressful
life-circumstances.

Basically, you somehow evoke the state you want, and when you get it,
you do something odd, anything at all will do, but I used a gentle
"vulcan grip" on their shoulder.  Later, when faced with the
uncomfortable situation, you can retrieve /part/ of that earlier more
desireable state by giving them the pinch; it's not perfect (like you
get with simpler brains) but it is an inescapable effect.

This is probably the neuro-effect that leads to performance-enhancing
superstitions such as Bob Dylan not performing without his favourite
jean jacket: Because it provides the cue to a more relaxed mental
state, he really does play better with it than without it.

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy  TeleDynamics Communications Inc
 Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0598.1ac8a662753f1bba429f52eb184ba794.eml000066400000000000000000000172621444326627400312150ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 10 11:07:46 2002
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Well, for one, it would free up the similar laptop I already got to
just run Amithlon (or if that wasn't so fun, bsd) to run just OpenBSD!

This is a near-term thing I could look forward to!

However, an 'official' laptop seems unexciting to me with only
the items mentioned.  Most important are the particulars distinguishing
the listed spec from a Dell 2650, preferably:
1- GeForce4 440 Go or newer, pleasingly modern GPU; the
   GeForce2Go (with 16MB video RAM; too little) I have is
   not so much too slow as inefficient; with factory settings it would
   actually crash from running too hot and too fast.
   (Accelerating the Ami* and possibly OpenUAE graphics
   is a necessity to meet for good speed in those environments,
   but an energy-efficient GPU is a good sideeffect and
    portability (read: battery lifetime) enabler.)

1.5- Great control over CPU state; by use of 'internet keys'
    wired to BIOS/bhipset routines directly or preferably a scroll
    wheel.  Also, hibernate that works, please.

1.7- Bootable to USB 2.0 drives (e.g. larger external ones)
    in BIOS, please.

2- P4 Dells overheat.  They have a big heatsink and a little fan
   to pull air through it, and if you don't elevate thelaptop off
   the desk or table or bed it's on, the fan will -stay- on.  Not good
  for MTBS (mean time between service; unless you've got an
  angle on making money on service from Amigans.....)
     One excellent solution is to include a heatpipe which runs
  behind the AMLCD, thus using the backside of the display
  half as a radiator.; though it interferes with the case notion
  below.  (yes, Aavid or such makes some as a standard part.)
      I prefer to include the heatpipe but employ the radiative
  mass in elevating the laptop (i.e. in the form of a catch-handle
  and second logo device behind the laptop, which generally
  provides stow and attachment for elevation legs (move them
  out farther to get to the next-higher ekevation, until the sides
  of the laptop are met.)  This also happens to provide a little
  protection for USB 2  and 1394 cables that I tend to keep
  plugged in all the time (a bit longer port life? Please.) 

3- A case color other than brown or black, and preferably (if the
    display module NRE is entirely permissive) the capability to
    -run with the backlight off.-  Again, to save battery power, but
    also as a feature; maybe you remember the iBooks modified
   in this manner.  The user has the privilege to pull out the
   backlight diffuser and fiberoptic lightpipe/CF assembly, with
   its backreflector, and the whole warrantee.  This provides
   for excellent outdoor use, often with the diffuser reinserted
   to keep depth-of-field distractions minimised.
     What would I like?  A1200 putty color, any translucency,
   in or over a rosewood-colored (in KDE color browser, I see
   chocolate, firebrick and a couple of 'indian red' that are great
   candidates) base.  
      I would also like to be able to at least turn off the backlight
    without closing the lid, and to be -able- to fit an -external-
    light source such as a UV-filtered solar collector (and glare
    hood) to feed
    into the backlight.  Not only does this make an excellent 
    color environment but lets one work outdoors tolerably.
      The logo should be a coloration of a
   minimal surface, as the MAA is trying to get me to renew
   with:  demos at http://astronomy.swin.edu.au/pbourke/geometry/
   at first blush.  We'll see what comes out of the contest and
   maybe you'll like the mapping MathCAD does of the
   logo to a minimal surface or manifold that reflects the
   openness of AmigaOS, Ami* and Amiga community.
   MAA.org has more references, I'm sure.

4- Obviously Elfin details., e,g, the backlight inlet.

Other details:
USB2.x preferred; FireWire would be needed if that's unavailable.
Options like 802.11b or attabhable WiFi hub for ethernet port
should round out the offering.  An option for just-released 
.13 micron P4 (with mobile power features) could make more
reviewers greenlight the series; much better power consumption,
and almost certainly a higher a top clock come with that.
CompactFlash, SmartMedia and MMC flash memory card
interfaces would be very pleasant.  I've mentioned booting to
USB, and booting from CF would be a pleasant extigency also.
To that end, a backup solution with compression using
USB 2 storage or the multimode drive is always a nice 
bundle item; that or a chance to back out a patch under 3 OS.....


Blue skies (and clear water and fresh air): 
Waterproof to 30 feet, 3 Ethernet ports plus onboard WiFi.
Svelte; 3-line frontpanel LCD and bright red pager LED,
builtin G4 cellphone functions, choice of side and 
frontpanel trim: Ivory-like stuff inscribed with M68k memory map
and various OS 3.9 structures or textured fur that
says 'This is Amiga Speaking' when stroked 'round. 
Decent keyboard, as in Toshiba or IBM laptops; perhaps 
an ergonomic fingerworks.com device (they work as 
keyboard and mouse) as the keyboard/trackpad.
2 Directional planar mics atop AMLCD; soundcard with multiple 
18 bit A-D and noise reduction DSP that work in our
(second-through-fourth, at least) favorite OS.
Actual 7" bellows pulls out at nominal ventilation 
fan location for real void-comp (the test in Blade
Runner) style cooling and extended bass; active cooling
and airfiltering is available to adjust humidity at user
seat and provide mineral water.
HyperTransport ports.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0599.dcd037ac7e916599160fc182080defe3.eml000066400000000000000000000054701444326627400312240ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 10 11:07:49 2002
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On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Ned Jackson Lovely wrote:

> In '87 a guy named Gregory Robertson noticed a fellow parachutist Debbie 
> Williams had been knocked unconscious. He shifted so that he was head down,
> hit about 200 mi/h, and caught up with her and pulled her chute with 10 seconds
> to spare.

IIRC it's ~180 km/s spreadeagled and ~210 km/h head-down.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0600.5c058c763f0c2053e70d2a6ddd5afd1e.eml000066400000000000000000000103641444326627400313210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 10 18:15:50 2002
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you meant "SURPRISINGLY perceptive," didn't you?  :-)

recent exceptionally vivid and strange dreams lead me to believe i'm
sparking synapses that have lain dormant lo these many years.  Lots of
problem solving going on up there at night.

-----Original Message-----
From: garym@maya.dyndns.org [mailto:garym@maya.dyndns.org]On Behalf Of
Gary Lawrence Murphy
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 11:16 PM
To: Geege Schuman
Cc: johnhall@evergo.net; FoRK
Subject: Re: Recommended Viewing


>>>>> "G" == Geege Schuman  writes:

    G> ...  i'm sure it's some neurochemical process initiated during
    G> the dream that is still cycling thru - like a deja vu,
    G> triggered by memory processes, where you don't actually
    G> remember but you feel like you're remembering.

That's very perceptive of you.  Many people are not so willing to
accept their personal reality as skewed by their neuro-physiology.  A
great many popular con games exist by exploiting the perceptions of
these states.

Another oft-exploited neuro-plausibility: The brain is a pretty darn
fine analog associative computer, so it could be the neurochemical
events during the dream have associated themselves with some inner or
external cue to mentally _recreate_ the state-perception like the
predictable tone on striking a bell.

--
Gary Lawrence Murphy  TeleDynamics Communications Inc
 Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)






golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0601.ecc0277d1962fad8005495cd09dea1aa.eml000066400000000000000000000057771444326627400313400ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 10 18:15:52 2002
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Gordon Mohr:
>It was clear you were talking about averages. But it should 
>be equally clear that that isn't what people mean when they
>use the word "promiscuity". 

Sigh.

This sprung out of a report linked by Cindy about the promiscuity of
female monkeys with males other than the alpha male, i.e, specifically
not the tail end of the distribution.  "By mating with as many
extra-group males as possible, female langurs ensure [etc.]"


>OK, then. Consider a population of 1,000,000. 500,000 men each
>pair off with 500,000 women. Then, 1 man, let's call him "Wilt",
>also has sex with the other 499,999 women

This has never happened.  Its relevance is nil.


>Averages are useful, sure -- but much more so if called by their 
>actual name, rather than conflated with another concept.

So I chose not to type "on average" explicitly in my post, since this
is FoRK and one tends to assume that people have a clue.


There is no disagreement between us, except that I am more interested
in typical behaviour and you in extreme.  Actually, you probably just
had a bad day and felt like jumping down my throat for the hell of it.


EOT, AFAIC.

R


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0602.af33589441908011e53b55d4702012cd.eml000066400000000000000000000072741444326627400306060ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 10 18:15:53 2002
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>>>>> "G" == Geege Schuman  writes:

    G> you meant "SURPRISINGLY perceptive," didn't you?  :-) 

Of course, dear.  Especially without zazen training.  Veritably
Operational Thetan-like.

    G> recent exceptionally vivid and strange dreams lead me to
    G> believe i'm sparking synapses that have lain dormant lo these
    G> many years.  Lots of problem solving going on up there at
    G> night.

It's a myth that we don't use parts of our brain.  We use it all,
always.  It's just that our culturally-induced focal-point causes most
of us to most of the time ignore and waste 99.999% of it.  "Lucid" is
a measure of notch-filter bandwidth; all stations are broadcasting,
but we only /choose/ Easy Rock 105.

For example, don't look now but your shoes are full of feet.

The sensation of toes the above statement evokes is not a "turning on"
of circuits, it is a "tuning in".  The next step, of course, is to
"drop out" :)

To paraphrase an old saw: Life is wasted on the living.

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy  TeleDynamics Communications Inc
 Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0603.4582f2bcf4795cdd8136e04313f0c0fc.eml000066400000000000000000000057741444326627400312050ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 10 18:15:55 2002
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From: Tom 
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	FoRK 
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On 10 Sep 2002, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:

--]It's a myth that we don't use parts of our brain.  We use it all,
--]always.  It's just that our culturally-induced focal-point causes most
--]of us to most of the time ignore and waste 99.999% of it.  "Lucid" is
--]a measure of notch-filter bandwidth; all stations are broadcasting,
--]but we only /choose/ Easy Rock 105.
--]
--]For example, don't look now but your shoes are full of feet.

Nice imagery. When the filters come down ( choose your method)it is very
much the case. Not  only are your shoes full of toes, but your toes are
full of bones, blood , muscle and toejam. All these things are
evident...unless you got your  filters up.

Life, the ultimate spam:)-

-tom


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0604.5ce333fc713b6c6f85386d8be149c1b4.eml000066400000000000000000000056471444326627400312210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 11 13:49:23 2002
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I'm not sure which way to make
the old bits call on this:

[A] 
was posted well after
[B] 
was in the archives, but then
again, [B] didn't bother with
any commentary (new bits).

If you two can agree upon who
was at fault, penance will be
to explain how feedback phase
is affected by time lags, and
tie that in to the spontaneous
generation of "business cycles"
in the Beer Game. *

-Dave

* 

see also:

Explaining Capacity Overshoot and Price War: Misperceptions
  of Feedback in Competitive Growth Markets 


in which the scenario 4 (margin
oriented tit for tat) seems close
to the strategy described in:

"game theoretical gandhi / more laptops"




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0605.0b692301193854c686d6c257203c9976.eml000066400000000000000000000242121444326627400304730ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 11 13:49:27 2002
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From: khare@alumni.caltech.edu
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Subject: NYTimes.com Article: Some Friends, Indeed, Do More Harm Than Good
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This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by khare@alumni.caltech.edu.


Sure does explain FoRK :-)

not yet abandoned,
  Rohit

khare@alumni.caltech.edu


Some Friends, Indeed, Do More Harm Than Good

September 10, 2002
By MARY DUENWALD 




 

Friends are supposed to be good for you. In recent years,
scientific research has suggested that people who have
strong friendships experience less stress, they recover
more quickly from heart attacks and they are likely to live
longer than the friendless. They are even less susceptible
to the common cold, studies show. 

But not all friends have such a salutary effect. Some lie,
insult and betray. Some are overly needy. Some give too
much advice. Psychologists and sociologists are now calling
attention to the negative health effects of bad friends. 

"Friendship is often very painful," said Dr. Harriet
Lerner, a psychologist and the author of "The Dance of
Connection." "In a close, enduring friendship, jealousy,
envy, anger and the entire range of difficult emotions will
rear their heads. One has to decide whether the best thing
is to consider it a phase in a long friendship or say this
is bad for my health and I'm disbanding it." 

Another book, "When Friendship Hurts," by Dr. Jan Yager, a
sociologist at the University of Connecticut at Stamford,
advises deliberately leaving bad friends by the wayside.
"There's this myth that friendships should last a
lifetime," Dr. Yager said. "But sometimes it's better that
they end." 

That social scientists would wait until now to spotlight
the dangers of bad friends is understandable, considering
that they have only recently paid close attention to
friendship at all. Marriage and family relationships -
between siblings or parents and children - have been seen
as more important. 

Of course, troubled friendships are far less likely to lead
to depression or suicide than troubled marriages are. And
children are seldom seriously affected when friendships go
bad. 

As a popular author of relationship advice books, Dr.
Lerner said, "Never once have I had anyone write and say my
best friend hits me." 

Dr. Beverley Fehr, a professor of psychology at the
University of Winnipeg, noted that sociological changes,
like a 50 percent divorce rate, have added weight to the
role of friends in emotional and physical health. 

"Now that a marital relationship can't be counted on for
stability the way it was in the past, and because people
are less likely to be living with or near extended family
members, people are shifting their focus to friendships as
a way of building community and finding intimacy," said Dr.
Fehr, the author of "Friendship Processes." 

Until the past couple of years, the research on friendship
focused on its health benefits. "Now we're starting to look
at it as a more full relationship," said Dr. Suzanna Rose,
a professor of psychology at Florida International
University in Miami. "Like marriage, friendship also has
negative characteristics." 

The research is in its infancy. Psychologists have not yet
measured the ill effects of bad friendship, Dr. Fehr said.
So far they have only, through surveys and interviews,
figured out that it is a significant problem. The early
research, Dr. Fehr added, is showing that betrayal by a
friend can be more devastating than experts had thought. 

How can a friend be bad? Most obviously, Dr. Rose said, by
drawing a person into criminal or otherwise ill-advised
pursuit. "When you think of people who were friends at
Enron," she added, "you can see how friendship can support
antisocial behavior." 

Betrayal also makes for a bad friendship. "When friends
split up," said Dr. Keith E. Davis, a professor of
psychology at the University of South Carolina, "it is
often in cases where one has shared personal information or
secrets that the other one wanted to be kept confidential."


Another form of betrayal, Dr. Yager said, is when a friend
suddenly turns cold, without ever explaining why. "It's
more than just pulling away," she said. "The silent
treatment is actually malicious." 

At least as devastating is an affair with the friend's
romantic partner, as recently happened to one of Dr.
Lerner's patients. "I would not encourage her to hang in
there and work this one out," Dr. Lerner said. 

A third type of bad friendship involves someone who insults
the other person, Dr. Yager said. One of the 180 people who
responded to Dr. Yager's most recent survey on friendship
described how, when she was 11, her best friend called her
"a derogatory name." The woman, now 32, was so devastated
that she feels she has been unable to be fully open with
people ever since, Dr. Yager said. 

Emotional abuse may be less noticeable than verbal abuse,
but it is "more insidious," Dr. Yager said. "Some people
constantly set up their friends," she explained. "They'll
have a party, not invite the friend, but make sure he or
she finds out." 

Risk takers, betrayers and abusers are the most extreme
kinds of bad friends, Dr. Yager said, but they are not the
only ones. She identifies 21 different varieties. Occupying
the second tier of badness are the liar, the person who is
overly dependent, the friend who never listens, the person
who meddles too much in a friend's life, the competitor and
the loner, who prefers not to spend time with friends. 

Most common is the promise breaker. "This includes everyone
from the person who says let's have a cup of coffee but
something always comes up at the last minute to someone who
promises to be there for you when you need them, but then
isn't," Dr. Yager said. 

Some friendships go bad, as some romantic relationships do,
when one of the people gradually or suddenly finds reasons
to dislike the other one. 

"With couples, it can take 18 to 24 months for someone to
discover there's something important they don't like about
the other person," said Dr. Rose of Florida International.
"One might find, for example, that in subtle ways the other
person is a racist. In friendships, which are less intense,
it may take even more time for one person to meet the
other's dislike criteria." 

Whether a friendship is worth saving, Dr. Lerner said,
"depends on how large the injury is." 

"Sometimes the mature thing is to lighten up and let
something go," she added. "It's also an act of maturity
sometimes to accept another person's limitations." 

Acceptance should come easier among friends than among
spouses, Dr. Lerner said, because people have more than one
friend and do not need a full range of emotional support
from each one. 

But if the friendship has deteriorated to the point where
one friend truly dislikes the other one or finds that the
friendship is causing undue stress, the healthy response is
to pull away, Dr. Yager said, to stop sharing the personal
or intimate details of life, and start being too busy to
get together, ever. 

"It takes two people to start and maintain a friendship,
but only one to end it," Dr. Yager said. 

Friendship, because it is voluntary and unregulated, is far
easier to dissolve than marriage. But it is also
comparatively fragile, experts say. Ideally, the loss of a
bad friendship should leave a person with more time and
appreciation for good ones, Dr. Lerner said. 

"It is wise to pay attention to your friendships and have
them in order while you're healthy and your life and work
are going well," she said. "Because when a crisis hits,
when someone you love dies, or you lose your job and your
health insurance, when the universe gives you a crash
course in vulnerability, you will discover how crucial and
life-preserving good friendship is."

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/10/health/psychology/10FRIE.html?ex=1032684795&ei=1&en=2a88a6d1b985c977



HOW TO ADVERTISE
---------------------------------
For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters 
or other creative advertising opportunities with The 
New York Times on the Web, please contact
onlinesales@nytimes.com or visit our online media 
kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo

For general information about NYTimes.com, write to 
help@nytimes.com.  

Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0606.246043a69d2c710dde0e67eedb1fd853.eml000066400000000000000000000125241444326627400312570ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 11 13:49:29 2002
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From: "Gordon Mohr" 
To: 
References: <20020910132951.04720C44D@argote.ch>
Subject: More on promiscuity and word choice Re: Selling Wedded Bliss (was
    Re: Ouch...)
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Robert Harley writes:
> >OK, then. Consider a population of 1,000,000. 500,000 men each
> >pair off with 500,000 women. Then, 1 man, let's call him "Wilt",
> >also has sex with the other 499,999 women
> 
> This has never happened.  Its relevance is nil.

It was a extreme contrived example because you glosded over the 
point of the earlier 3-person example. 

But OK, Mr Math, let it be N men and women, for any N>2. They 
all pair off. Then, some number H, N>H>0, of men has sex with 
all the other N-1 women he hasn't yet had sex with. 

Pick any N and H that might be interesting. Any choice of
values results in meaningful differences between the sexes' 
"promiscuity", as commonly understood. It should be more 
obvious with extreme choices of numbers, but it is also true 
for any choice of N and H, if unrealistic totals distract you.

Further, and I was hoping this would be clear without saying
so outright, this model actually approximates the cliche 
"common wisdom" about per-gender sexual behavior, if you 
reverse the male and female roles.

Those stereotypes are: that more men than women seek multiple
partners -- men being "more promiscuous" than women -- and that 
surplus of male interest is satisfied by a smaller number of 
hyperpromiscuous women (often derisively labelled "sluts").

> So I chose not to type "on average" explicitly in my post, since this
> is FoRK and one tends to assume that people have a clue.
> 
> There is no disagreement between us, except that I am more interested
> in typical behaviour and you in extreme. 

Nope, now you've amended the meaning of your initial statement to
make it more defensible. What I objected to was:

Robert Harley:
# >The assumption that females of all species tend to be less promiscuous
# >than males simply does not fit the facts, Hrdy contended.
# 
# Well, DUH!!!
# 
# It is perfectly obvious that (heterosexual) promiscuity is exactly,
# precisely identical between males and females.
# 
# Of course the shapes of the distributions may differ.

If you assumed people on FoRK had a clue, would you have needed
to jump in with a patronizing "DUH!!"? 

If you were talking about fuzzy, typical behavior, would you have 
huffed and puffed with the words "perfectly obvious" and "exactly, 
precisely identical"? 

If your concern was with the "typical", why didn't you adopt the 
typical definition of "promiscuous", rather than a straw-man
definition which allowed you to interject "DUH!!" and mock an
anthrolopology professor's conclusions? 

> Actually, you probably just
> had a bad day and felt like jumping down my throat for the hell of it.

You are welcome to that theory!

But here's an alternate theory: when you jump in with a patronizing 
and overblown pronouncement -- e.g. "DUH!!... perfectly obvious... 
exactly, precisely identical..." -- and that pronouncement is 
itself sloppy and erroneous, then others may get a kick out of 
popping your balloon. 

- Gordon



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0607.14d2b2101e12b952f5cfe7aa92afd4a4.eml000066400000000000000000000106141444326627400313140ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 11 13:49:31 2002
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From: "Geege Schuman" 
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	"Geege Schuman" 
Cc: , "FoRK" 
Subject: RE: Recommended Viewing
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dreams-are-like-radio analogy: i program my Jetta Monsoon for Planet 93.3,
80's 102.9, and NPR 89.9 but when i leave my local broadcast range i have to
scan for new stations. dreaming is outside my local broadcast range.

-----Original Message-----
From: garym@maya.dyndns.org [mailto:garym@maya.dyndns.org]On Behalf Of
Gary Lawrence Murphy
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 10:14 AM
To: Geege Schuman
Cc: johnhall@evergo.net; FoRK
Subject: Re: Recommended Viewing


>>>>> "G" == Geege Schuman  writes:

    G> you meant "SURPRISINGLY perceptive," didn't you?  :-)

Of course, dear.  Especially without zazen training.  Veritably
Operational Thetan-like.

    G> recent exceptionally vivid and strange dreams lead me to
    G> believe i'm sparking synapses that have lain dormant lo these
    G> many years.  Lots of problem solving going on up there at
    G> night.

It's a myth that we don't use parts of our brain.  We use it all,
always.  It's just that our culturally-induced focal-point causes most
of us to most of the time ignore and waste 99.999% of it.  "Lucid" is
a measure of notch-filter bandwidth; all stations are broadcasting,
but we only /choose/ Easy Rock 105.

For example, don't look now but your shoes are full of feet.

The sensation of toes the above statement evokes is not a "turning on"
of circuits, it is a "tuning in".  The next step, of course, is to
"drop out" :)

To paraphrase an old saw: Life is wasted on the living.

--
Gary Lawrence Murphy  TeleDynamics Communications Inc
 Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)





golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0608.ee46655dde2d5d95579711e1a849cb34.eml000066400000000000000000000105231444326627400311440ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 11 13:49:34 2002
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==
http://siliconvalley.internet.com/news/article.php/10862_1460701

Microsoft Tuesday said it has purchased a Mountain View, Calif.-based
security company to better secure its core file services including its
Windows platform and .NET initiative.

The Redmond, Wash-based software giant has acquired the assets of XDegrees
for an undisclosed amount of cash and is in the process of relocating the
team of 12 or 14 engineers to the Microsoft campus.

XDegrees' technology assigns URLs to Word files, video clips, and other
digital documents for access across a peer-to-peer network

XDegrees founder Michael Tanne was offered a job, but decided instead to
play his hand in the Silicon Valley.
==========

"XDegrees' technology assigns URLs to Word files, video clips, and other
digital documents for access across a peer-to-peer network" - assigns URLs
to Word files... and somebody /bought/ that?

===
http://www.xdegrees.com/pr_2001-11-12_1.html
"The XDegrees System allows users to easily and consistently locate, access
and manage information by assigning each document a unique link. Providing
end-to-end security, the XDegrees System unifies authentication of all
users, provides file-level access control and encrypts all stored and
transferred files. Seamless integration with existing applications such as
email clients and Microsoft Office products allows companies to rapidly
deploy the XDegrees System and users to get up-and-running quickly."

Whoa... high tech...

===
More bits here...
http://www.openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/2001/04/27/xdegrees.html

"The essence of XDegrees consists of a naming system and a distributed
database that allows peers to resolve resource names. XDegrees manages these
services for customers on its own hosts, and sells its software to
enterprises so they can define and run their own namespaces on in-house
servers. You can search for a particular person (whatever device the person
is currently using), for a particular device, for a file, or even for a web
service. The software that resolves resource names is called XRNS (the
eXtensible Resource Name System)."



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0609.2b39e149425abf7a4a84933aad236189.eml000066400000000000000000000105601444326627400310440ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 11 13:49:36 2002
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I like this part - sounds like httpd on the client...

http://www.openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/2001/04/27/xdegrees.html

"Once the Client Component is installed, a server can order a program to run
on the client. Any CGI script, Java servlet, ASP component, etc. could be
run on the client. This is like breaking the Web server into two parts.
Originally, Web servers just understood HTTP and sent pages. Then the field
started demanding more from the Web and the servers got loaded down with CGI
and mod_perl and active pages and stuff. So now the Web server can choose to
go back to simple serving and (where the application is appropriate) let the
client do the other razzamatazz. This is superior to JavaScript in one
important detail: the program doesn't have to reload when a new page is
loaded, as JavaScript functions do.

And because XDegrees uses Web-compatible technology, users can access
XDegrees resources without installing any software, simply by using their
browser."

===
"Scaling is the main question that comes to mind when somebody describes a
new naming and searching system. CEO Michael Tanne claims to have figured
out mathematically that the system can scale up to millions of users and
billions of resources. Scaling is facilitated by the careful location of
servers (XDegrees will colocate servers at key routing points, as Akamai
does), and by directing clients to the nearest server as their default
"home" server. Enterprise customers can use own servers to manage in-house
applications."

"Files can be cached on multiple systems randomly scattered around the
Internet, as with Napster or Freenet. In fact, the caching in XDegrees is
more sophisticated than it is on those systems: users with high bandwidth
connections can download portions, or "stripes," of a file from several
cached locations simultaneously. The XDegrees software then reassembles
these stripes into the whole file and uses digital signatures to verify that
the downloaded file is the same as the original. A key component of this
digital signature is a digest of the file, which is stored as an HTTP header
for the file."


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0610.77f0b010c4ee1f527c40a320223e5e3d.eml000066400000000000000000000066031444326627400310640ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 11 13:49:38 2002
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From: "Gordon Mohr" 
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Mr. FoRK writes:
> "Files can be cached on multiple systems randomly scattered around the
> Internet, as with Napster or Freenet. In fact, the caching in XDegrees is
> more sophisticated than it is on those systems: users with high bandwidth
> connections can download portions, or "stripes," of a file from several
> cached locations simultaneously. The XDegrees software then reassembles
> these stripes into the whole file and uses digital signatures to verify that
> the downloaded file is the same as the original. A key component of this
> digital signature is a digest of the file, which is stored as an HTTP header
> for the file."

This "more sophisticated than [Napster or Freenet]" part seems
to be the same behavior implemented in many other P2P CDNs, 
such as:

  - Kazaa
  - EDonkey/Overnet
  - BitTorrent
  - Gnutella (with HUGE extensions)
  - OnionNetworks WebRAID

...though the quality of the "digest" used by each system varies
wildly.

- Gordon



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0611.4a47b06e83edee6c61ba37d1be2a09d0.eml000066400000000000000000000220321444326627400313740ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 11 13:49:40 2002
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Subject: storage bits
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At 12:32 PM 12/28/00 -0600, Adam Rifkin wrote:

>I repeat, IBM 76.8Gb ultra dma/100 hard drive at Fry's for $375...
>"home of fast, friendly courteous service! (R)"
>
>I kid you not.  That's a half a cent a Megabyte for storage.
>Not El Cheapo storage but top of the line storage.

less than two years later, we have 320 GB for the same price:

http://www.shareholder.com/maxtor/news/20020909-89588.cfm

Maxtor Driving Capacity-Centric Enterprise Apps With "Super-Sized" ATA Drives

Maxtor Continues its Leadership in the Market it Pioneered with a New 
Category of High-Density ATA Drives

MILPITAS, Calif., September 9, 2002-

Maxtor Corporation (NYSE: MXO), a worldwide leader in hard disk drives and 
data storage solutions, today announced Maxtor MaXLineTM, its newest 
generation of ATA drives designed specifically for rapidly emerging 
enterprise storage applications including near-line, media storage and 
network storage. The MaXLine family features two critical differentiators: 
huge capacities up to 320 GB for corporate archiving and media recording; 
and unique manufacturing and quality for 24/7 operations with mean time to 
failure (MTTF) rates exceeding one million hours.

The MaXLine family is designed to bring hard disk drives into "near-line" 
archive applications. By adding a layer of MaXLine drives to archive 
architectures, companies can instantly recover time-critical data including 
executive e-mail, transaction data and accounting data that may need to be 
recovered on demand.

These new drives are designed to solve another enterprise problem with the 
storage of video, media and audio conference call files. Even compressed, 
these files take up tremendous amounts of high-cost server space. Priced 
starting around $299.95 to $399.95 MSRP, Maxtor's MaXLine family offers 
high capacity drives for enterprise applications at price points between 
traditional ATA and SCSI drives.

For system OEMs and white box builders, MaXLine offers high-density, 
easy-to-integrate storage for use in entry-level and mid-size server 
environments.

"The demand for instant recall of archived data is expanding as companies 
are meeting their obligations to quickly access executive e-mails, 
financial documents and transaction records," said Mike Dooley, senior 
director of marketing for the Desktop Products Group at Maxtor. "Users may 
not need to access information in these applications on a daily basis, but 
when they do need access, it must be instant. Recent advances in ATA 
technology and our manufacturing processes allow us to build upon our 
legacy of experience and provide our customers with a family of premium ATA 
hard drives that can be integrated into a variety of systems for these 
enterprise applications."

The MaXLine family includes the 5400-RPM MaXLine II, designed for 
capacities up to 320 GB and the 7200-RPM MaXLine Plus II, designed for 
capacities up to 250 GB. At these capacities, MaXLine offers higher storage 
density than many tape and optical solutions. These drives have also been 
tested and are projected to meet enterprise reliability requirements, 
already exceeded by prior drives employing the same robust Maxtor designs, 
which exceed MTTF of over one million hours. These drives will also carry a 
three-year warranty.

The MaXLine II and MaXLine Plus II feature the Maxtor Fast DriveTM 
UltraATA/133 interface for data transfer speeds up to 133 MB per second. 
The MaXLine II and MaXLine Plus II will be available with next-generation 
serial ATA interface for higher performance. At 150 MB per second maximum 
data transfer rate, serial ATA improves hard drive performance to keep pace 
with the rapidly increasing performance requirements of data intensive 
environments and enterprise applications.

With a point-to-point connection architecture, and rich command set for 
managing hard drive activity and data flow along the interface, serial ATA 
advances the performance and efficiency of the drive to system interface. 
The interface's reduced pin count allows for simpler cabling which in turn 
allows better airflow within a system and further benefits the user with 
increased design flexibility and hot plug capability.

"Maxtor's MaXLine family of drives provide a solution for storing data that 
has previously been too expensive to keep on disk," said Dave Reinsel, 
analyst at IDC. "The ATA drives offer a great value, low cost per GB and 
when integrated into storage systems and file servers offer a compelling 
cost-effective alternative to tape libraries and optical drives, which have 
been the traditional solutions used for near-line applications."

Availability
Limited qualification units of the parallel ATA versions of Maxtor MaXLine 
II and MaXLine Plus II are now available; with volume units available in 
the fourth quarter. Qualification units of the MaXLine II and MaXLine Plus 
II with serial ATA will be available later this month with volume shipments 
scheduled to begin in the first quarter of 2003.

About Maxtor
Maxtor Corporation (www.maxtor.com) is one of the world's leading suppliers 
of information storage solutions. The company has an expansive line of 
storage products for desktop computers, storage systems, high-performance 
servers and consumer electronics. Maxtor has a reputation as a proven 
market leader built by consistently providing high-quality products and 
service and support for its customers. Maxtor and its products can be found 
at www.maxtor.com or by calling toll-free (800) 2-MAXTOR. Maxtor is traded 
on the NYSE under the MXO symbol.

Note: Maxtor, MaXLine and the Maxtor logo are registered trademarks of 
Maxtor Corporation. Fast Drive is a trademark of Maxtor Corporation. All 
other trademarks are properties of their respective owners.

GB means 1 billion bytes. Total accessible capacity varies depending on 
operating environment.

This announcement relating to Maxtor may contain forward-looking statements 
concerning future technology, products incorporating that technology, and 
Maxtor's execution. These statements are based on current expectations and 
are subject to risks and uncertainties which could materially affect the 
company's results, including, but not limited to, market demand for hard 
disk drives, the company's ability to execute future production ramps and 
utilize manufacturing assets efficiently, pricing, competition, and the 
significant uncertainty of market acceptance of new products.  These and 
other risk factors are contained in documents that the company files with 
the SEC, including the Form 10-K for fiscal 2001 and its recent 10-Qs.

Copyright � 2001, Maxtor Corporation �. Privacy Policy.



-- 
((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0612.f6d6b7e1dc1e063f1fd95991aa452d05.eml000066400000000000000000000060551444326627400312630ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 11 14:10:33 2002
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Cc: Adam Rifkin , FoRK@xent.com
Subject: Re: storage bits
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020911114003.02e170f0@frodo.hserus.net>
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
X-Home-Page: http://www.teledyn.com
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>>>>> "U" == Udhay Shankar N  writes:

    U> At 12:32 PM 12/28/00 -0600, Adam Rifkin wrote:
    >> I repeat, IBM 76.8Gb ultra dma/100 hard drive at Fry's for
    >> $375...  "home of fast, friendly courteous service! (R)"

    U> less than two years later, we have 320 GB for the same price:

So then why does my webhost _still_ only give me 200MB?

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy  TeleDynamics Communications Inc
 Business Advantage through Community Software : http://www.teledyn.com
"Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers."(Pablo Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0613.78f3bc8ff059d262ac436be34a962c6b.eml000066400000000000000000000055331444326627400312720ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 11 14:21:29 2002
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From: CDale 
To: Paul Chvostek 
Cc: discuss-list@opensrs.net, 
Subject: Re: Snow
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September Haiku

Freezing my ass off
Air conditioning on high
heats small apartment.


Cindy, in Mississippie
P.S. this one's for you, geege.



On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Paul Chvostek wrote:

> 
> I can tell I'm not the only one without air conditioning.  ;-)
> 
> Maybe I'll move to Canmore.  
> 
> p
> 
> 
> On Tue, Sep 10, 2002 at 03:37:08PM -0400, Swerve wrote:
> > 
> > moo hahahaha.
> > 
> > i need a smoke.
> > 
> > stop this heatwave.
> > 
> > bring on winter.
> > 
> > bring on fall.
> > 
> > 
> > Swerve, shut up.
> > 
> > bye.
> 
> 

-- 
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0614.b5bf667c7ffd59fca7f26a8ca1f8deea.eml000066400000000000000000000075131444326627400317460ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 11 19:42:11 2002
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From: "Jim Whitehead" 
To: 
Subject: RE: Microsoft buys XDegress - more of a p2p/distributed data thing...
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XDegrees was at the WebDAV Interoperability Testing Event last year, so
there may be some DAV under the hood there someplace.

- Jim

> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of
> Gordon Mohr
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 12:00 AM
> To: fork@example.com
> Subject: Re: Microsoft buys XDegress - more of a p2p/distributed data
> thing...
>
>
> Mr. FoRK writes:
> > "Files can be cached on multiple systems randomly scattered around the
> > Internet, as with Napster or Freenet. In fact, the caching in
> XDegrees is
> > more sophisticated than it is on those systems: users with high
> bandwidth
> > connections can download portions, or "stripes," of a file from several
> > cached locations simultaneously. The XDegrees software then reassembles
> > these stripes into the whole file and uses digital signatures
> to verify that
> > the downloaded file is the same as the original. A key component of this
> > digital signature is a digest of the file, which is stored as
> an HTTP header
> > for the file."
>
> This "more sophisticated than [Napster or Freenet]" part seems
> to be the same behavior implemented in many other P2P CDNs,
> such as:
>
>   - Kazaa
>   - EDonkey/Overnet
>   - BitTorrent
>   - Gnutella (with HUGE extensions)
>   - OnionNetworks WebRAID
>
> ...though the quality of the "digest" used by each system varies
> wildly.
>
> - Gordon
>


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0615.935b5a30e35ec46502a33a445443c124.eml000066400000000000000000000242001444326627400306470ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 11 19:42:14 2002
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From: "Bill Stoddard" 
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Subject: Hanson's Sept 11 message in the National Review
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http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson091102.asp


September 11, 2002 8:00 a.m.
The Wages of September 11
There is no going back.



September 11 changed our world. Those who deny such a watershed event take a
superficially short-term view, and seem to think all is as before simply
because the sun still rises and sets.

This is a colossal misjudgment. The collapse of the towers, the crashing
into the Pentagon, and the murder of 3,000 Americans � all seen live in real
time by millions the world over � tore off a scab and exposed deep wounds,
which, if and when they heal, will leave ugly scars for decades. The killers
dealt in icons � the choice of 911 as the date of death, targeting the
manifest symbols of global capitalism and American military power, and
centering their destruction on the largest Jewish city in the world. Yes,
they got their symbols in spades, but they have no idea that their killing
has instead become emblematic of changes that they could scarcely imagine.

Islamic fundamentalism has proved not ascendant, but static, morally
repugnant � and the worst plague upon the Arab world since the Crusades. By
lurking in the shadows and killing incrementally through stealth, the
vampirish terrorists garnered bribes and subsidies through threats and
bombs; but pale and wrinkled in the daylight after 9/11, they prove only
ghoulish not fearsome.

The more the world knows of al Qaeda and bin Laden, the more it has found
them both vile and yet banal � and so is confident and eager to eradicate
them and all they stand for. It is one thing to kill innocents, quite
another to take on the armed might of an aroused United States. Easily
dodging a solo cruise missile in the vastness of Afghanistan may make good
theater and bring about braggadocio; dealing with grim American and British
commandos who have come 7,000 miles for your head prompts abject flight and
an occasional cheap infomercial on the run. And the ultimate consequence of
the attacks of September 11 will not merely be the destruction of al Qaeda,
but also the complete repudiation of the Taliban, the Iranian mullocracy,
the plague of the Pakistani madrassas, and any other would-be fundamentalist
paradise on earth.

Foreign relations will not be the same in our generation. Our coalition with
Europe, we learn, was not a partnership, but more mere alphabetic
nomenclature and the mutual back scratching of Euro-American globetrotters �
a paper alliance without a mission nearly 15 years after the end of the Cold
War. The truth is that Europe, out of noble purposes, for a decade has
insidiously eroded its collective national sovereignty in order to craft an
antidemocratic EU, a 80,000-person fuzzy bureaucracy whose executive power
is as militarily weak as it is morally ambiguous in its reliance on often
dubious international accords. This sad realization September 11 brutally
exposed, and we all should cry for the beloved continent that has for the
moment completely lost its moral bearings. Indeed, as the months progressed
the problems inherent in "the European way" became all too apparent:
pretentious utopian manifestos in lieu of military resoluteness, abstract
moralizing to excuse dereliction of concrete ethical responsibility, and
constant American ankle-biting even as Europe lives in a make-believe Shire
while we keep back the forces of Mordor from its picturesque borders, with
only a few brave Frodos and Bilbos tagging along. Nothing has proved more
sobering to Americans than the skepticism of these blinkered European
hobbits after September 11.

America learned that "moderate" Arab countries are as dangerous as hostile
Islamic nations. After September 11, being a Saudi, Egyptian, or Kuwaiti
means nothing special to an American � at least not proof of being any more
friendly or hostile than having Libyan, Syrian, or Lebanese citizenship.
Indeed, our entire postwar policy of propping up autocracies on the triad of
their anticommunism, oil, and arms purchases � like NATO � belongs to a
pre-9/11 age of Soviet aggrandizement and petroleum monopolies. Now we learn
that broadcasting state-sponsored hatred of Israel and the United States is
just as deadly to our interests as scud missiles � and as likely to come
from friends as enemies. Worst-case scenarios like Iran and Afghanistan
offer more long-term hope than "stable regimes" like the Saudis; governments
that hate us have populations that like us � and vice versa; the Saudi royal
family, whom 5,000 American troops protect, and the Mubarak autocracy, which
has snagged billions of American dollars, are as afraid of democratic
reformers as they are Islamic fundamentalists. And with good reason: Islamic
governments in Iran and under the Taliban were as hated by the masses as
Arab secular reformers in exile in the West are praised and championed.

The post-9/11 domestic calculus is just as confusing. Generals and the
military brass call civilians who seek the liberation of Iraq "chicken
hawks" and worse. Yet such traditional Vietnam-era invective I think rings
hollow after September 11, and sounds more like McClellan's shrillness
against his civilian overseers who precipitously wanted an odious slavery
ended than resonant of Patton's audacity in charging after murderous Nazis.
More Americans were destroyed at work in a single day than all those
soldiers killed in enemy action since the evacuation of Vietnam nearly 30
years ago. Indeed, most troops who went through the ghastly inferno of
Vietnam are now in or nearing retirement; and, thank God, there is no
generation of Americans in the present military � other than a few thousand
brave veterans of the Gulf, Mogadishu, and Panama � who have been in
sustained and deadly shooting with heavy casualties. Because American
soldiers and their equipment are as impressive as our own domestic security
is lax, in this gruesome war it may well be more perilous to work high up in
lower Manhattan, fly regularly on a jumbo jet, or handle mail at the
Pentagon or CIA than be at sea on a sub or destroyer.

Real concern for the sanctity of life may hinge on employing rather than
rejecting force, inasmuch as our troops are as deadly and protected abroad
as our women, children, aged, and civilians are impotent and vulnerable at
home. It seems to me a more moral gamble to send hundreds of pilots into
harm's way than allow a madman to further his plots to blow up or infect
thousands in high-rises.

Politics have been turned upside down. In the old days, cynical
conservatives were forced to hold their noses and to practice a sometimes
repellent Realpolitik. In the age of Russian expansionism, they were loathe
to champion democracy when it might usher in a socialist Trojan Horse whose
belly harbored totalitarians disguised as parliamentarians. Thus they were
so often at loggerheads with na�ve and idealist leftists.

No longer. The end of the specter of a deadly and aggressive Soviet
Communism has revived democratic ideology as a force in diplomacy. Champions
of freedom no longer sigh and back opportunistic rightist thugs who promise
open economics, loot their treasuries, and keep out the Russians. Instead,
even reactionaries are now more likely to push for democratic governments in
the Middle East than are dour and skeptical leftists. The latter, if
multiculturalists, often believe that democracy is a value-neutral Western
construct, not necessarily a universal good; if pacifists, they claim
nonintervention, not justice, as their first priority. The Right, not the
Left, now is the greater proponent of global freedom, liberation, and
idealism � with obvious domestic ramifications for any Republican president
astute enough to tap that rich vein of popular support.

All this and more are the wages of the disaster of September 11 and the
subsequent terrible year � and yet it is likely that, for good or evil, we
will see things even more incredible in the twelve months ahead.





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Say 'amen' somebody. What the WSJ said, appended below.


The WTC, as constructed, was a confiscatory government boondoggle,
expropriated from the original pre-construction property owners at
the behest of a third-generation trust-fund-aristocrat for the "good"
of the city, and owned by an "authority" looking for something else
to do after it, and its coach-hounds in organized labor and organized
crime, had killed what was the largest port in the world's richest
nation.

Now, of course, it's about to get worse. The sins of 40 years ago
have been compounded at the hands of two kinds of literally
irrational fanatics, first those in religion, and now those in
government.

As a result, a large part of 10 million square feet of once perfectly
usable office space, devoted, at least ostensibly, to commerce, will
be "granted" away  in a potlatch that only government, and
special-interest "communities", (or "stakeholders", or whatever the
cryptosocialist psycho-rabble call themselves this week) can organize
to such perfection.


All this in probably the *only* city in the country that was founded
by a *business*, explicitly for the purpose of *commerce*. Not
religious fanaticism. Not colonial expansion in a monarch's name.
*Commerce*.


If they *really* wanted to make a point to the superstitious luddites
who collapsed those buildings (using probably the only sharp objects
on a plane full of government-disarmed passengers) the so-called
"authority" should disband itself and sell its property off to the
highest bidder and let the *market* -- the cure to all luddism,
foreign and domestic, government and superstitious -- decide.

If the new, *private* owner wants to sell, or give away, a space for
a memorial, fine. They could sell tickets and donate the money to the
families of the dead and injured. Probably great for marketing the
property, at least during the lifetime of anyone who remembers the
event.

And, of course, if the new owner wants to build something twice as
tall, or with twice as much space than the original 10 million square
feet, splendid. Whatever the market will bear.


In these days of increasingly ubiquitous trans-national geodesic
internetworks, of strong financial cryptography, and of exponentially
decreasing transaction costs in formerly monolithic industries,
economics and freedom can, and will, prevail over both superstition
and statism.

It's probably too much to hope for an actual market in lower
Manhattan mega-real-estate to prevail this early in the game, but
it's going to happen sooner or later.

And, whenever it does, *that* will be a fitting memorial to those who
died at the World Trade Center.

Cheers,
RAH

- -------

http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,,SB1031705210159756235,00.html


The Wall Street Journal

September 11, 2002
REVIEW & OUTLOOK

A Living Memorial

As we write these words, we can look down from our offices into the
six-story crater where the Twin Towers once stood. Like everyone
else, we want that site to be rebuilt in a way that honors those who
died a year ago. But we also think the best memorial to those who
perished would be a living one.

The site of the World Trade Center calls forth many emotions,
especially today: anger, grief and respect for the many acts of
heroism that took place there. But underlying it all is the memory of
the enormous vitality that distinguished the towers before they were
attacked and was a large reason they were targeted. The best
expression of the spirit of New York and of those who died would be
to once again see thousands of people from dozens of countries
working, meeting, shopping, eating -- that is, engaged in the sort of
productive work and play that used to take place there. Osama bin
Laden should not be allowed to have turned it into a cemetery.

But restoring this memory is not what the discussion in New York has
been about. So far no one is talking seriously about the vigorous
rebuilding of downtown Manhattan, which lost 100,000 jobs when the
Trade Center fell. Instead the discussion centers on the size and
scale of the memorial, and on satisfying every political interest now
clamoring for a piece of the action. New York's political leadership,
and its financial and media elites, are squandering a historic chance
to rebuild a better, more prosperous city.

This is in part the fault of the commission tasked with figuring out
what to do with the site. In consultation with New York Governor
George Pataki, who is thinking primarily about his own November
re-election, the commission made the decision to focus first on the
memorial. The Manhattan Institute's Steve Malanga argues that the
commission would have been better off setting aside a limited space
for the memorial, getting on with the rebuilding and then returning
to the memorial. This is in essence what the Pentagon has so
successfully done -- rebuild immediately and set aside two acres for
an outdoor memorial, a design for which has yet to be decided.

A big part of the problem in New York is that the city's
anti-development activists know an opening when they see one. They
want the World Trade Center site -- and even some surrounding areas
- -- transformed into an enormous park. These political advocates have
had plenty of practice at turning proposed development projects in
New York into a nightmare of delay and litigation, and the World
Trade Center site is now getting the same treatment. Worse, they are
cynically using some bereaved family members to advance their own
anti-development agenda in the name of "honoring" the dead. One
family group even called a press conference to reject as
disrespectful a proposed train line under the site.

We are not experts in designing war memorials, but we're confident
that a gigantic park in the heart of the world's financial center
isn't the appropriate choice for those who died a year ago. The great
cities of Europe and Japan, devastated in World War II, have all
rebuilt, and with memorials that are integrated into modern urban
life. Perhaps the most powerful is found in Rotterdam, the Dutch port
city reduced to rubble by German bombing, where survivors erected a
statue of a man with a hole where his heart used to be.

In this country, the practice has been for the names of war dead to
be inscribed on the walls of institutions with which they were
affiliated. If you walk into Nassau Hall at Princeton University,
you'll find the names of 644 alumni who died in the Revolutionary
War, the War of 1812, the Civil War, the Spanish-American War, World
War I, World War II, Korea and Southeast Asia. No one thinks it
disrespectful to the dead that the life of the university goes on
around the walls containing their names.

In New York now, it would help if political leaders looked beyond the
emotional tug of the victims and their families to the city's future.
Rudolph Giuliani, now that he's out office, wants the entire 16 acres
devoted to the memorial. Governor Pataki has called for no structures
on the "footprints," which, being in the center of the site, would
severely curtail options. Mayor Michael Bloomberg initially raised
his voice in favor of commercial development but was bloodied by the
press and has since ducked for cover.

Maybe things will be different after this anniversary is past. Maybe
those responsible for the World Trade Center site will start thinking
more about the next 50 or 100 years than the past 12 months. The best
way to honor the dead is by reviving normal life and commerce.

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-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


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http://www.phc.mpr.org/posthost/index.shtml

Dear Garrison,

There are at least six plans about what to do with
"Ground Zero" in New York. I believe a suitable memorial
surrounded by a lovely park with benches, walkways,
children's playgrounds, possibly some concessions such
as a restaurant, small theater and a place for art works
would be the best tribute to those who lost their lives.
What do you think should done with the space?

Joe Adams
Hillsdale, New Jersey

I dread the thought of a big memorial in Manhattan
that's designed by committee and that's gone through
public hearings and so forth ----- it's going to be cold
and ugly and pretentious and the upshot will be one more
public space that the public hates, of which there are
plenty already. New York is a bustling commercial city
and that's the beauty of it, it's a city of young
ambitious dreamy people, like the folks who died in the
towers, and it's not a memorializing city. Historic
events occurred in New York that in any other city would
be commemorated with interpretive centers and guides and
historical museums and in New York there's barely a
little plaque. That's a great thing, in my estimation.
It's a hustling city, full of immigrants looking for
their big chance, and compared to that spirit of
entrepreneurship, a memorial plaza with a fountain and a
statue of something seems dead to me. Look at Grant's
Tomb. Who walks past it and thinks about President
Grant? Nobody. People sit in the plaza by Grant's Tomb
and think about lunch, about sex, about money, about all
the things that New York is about. If you want to find
Grant, read his memoirs. His monument seems odd in New
York: it belongs in Washington, which is our memorial
city. New York is for the young and lively.



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0618.a6e6cf36de8832e7f6df6dc832ebb83d.eml000066400000000000000000000053671444326627400315410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 11 19:42:20 2002
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On 11 Sep 2002, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:

> So then why does my webhost _still_ only give me 200MB?

Because ~10 krpm server SCSII doesn't follow the curve. Most rackspace is
ridiculously expensive/unit, so people don't use low end EIDE hardware 
there.


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Hanson is always good.

One of my sci-fi authors is planning on slipping the following line into
one of their stories:

"The worst strategic mistake since the 911 attacks".



> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
Bill
> Stoddard
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 9:37 AM
> To: Fork@Xent.Com
> Subject: Hanson's Sept 11 message in the National Review
> 
> 
> http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson091102.asp


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0620.cb5bdeb796ed52ca7474387e39462e87.eml000066400000000000000000000044561444326627400312340ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 11 20:16:24 2002
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i though this was all rather interesting, first bit of 9/11 coverage that 
i've liked.

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2002/09/11/forbidden_letters/index.html

Chris


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0621.feb00fa392669a54bc5602f927fbae12.eml000066400000000000000000000047111444326627400312510ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 12 13:39:39 2002
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Is this old bits? It should be.

I was browsing the local zine store here in Portland OR and found the
second issue of The Thresher...very very sweet. Poltical socio articles on
all manner of things from names you have come to love/despise over the
years. If you have not already, tombobjoewhore says check it out.

www.thethresher.com



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0622.aa081cbcc4734cedebbe0084f1988921.eml000066400000000000000000000114601444326627400313270ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 12 13:39:41 2002
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Gays, gay sex, gay marriage.....wooohooo its been a mano e mano week and
thursady will be the mass market consumer period on it.

The WWE's gay marriage cermemony is in the can, that is its been filmed
last night for thursady nights Smackdown. Did they do it tastefully? Oh
come on its the WWE for cripssake, of course they didnt. Did they use it
ot promote an story line? Despite the WWE throwing away more good story
lines in the last 2 years than a wood chuck who could chuck wood if the
enviromentalists did not slap lawsuits on them, the sotrywrites seemed to
have finaly hit on a big tie togther event for several story lines.

But of course, no one here watches the WWE, and not even because you would
rather watch old Divxs of the ECW, so this little bit is probably fallign
on the old killsawfiles.

SO I wont be bursting anyones thursdaynight plans if I smarkout and say
that B and C waver near the final vows, the blame is falling on Ricco,
thier "manager"*, for  pushing them to carry out their "gay" act far too
long and just when things look to be heating up with that story
arc......the mask comes off the justice of the piece as he pronounces
that they have gone 3  minutes, yes 3 minutes, too long.....Yep, its the
Bisch and in come Rosey  and Jamal to attempt a stomping on Stpehnie
McMahon. Hopefully they did  not get off a kick like they did on the first
lesbain back on Mondays raw as that broke a rib.

Of course the editing truck boys might change some none or all of this
around, so if thursday nights tape play reveals them hitch and on thier
way to a honeymoon, thats the luck o the smarkies. I doubt it will be
edited much though from the way I heard it.

So the bottomline is, they really were not gay all along, they were play
acting and it got out of hand because Ricco made them, Steaphnie gets a
face push while the Bisch gets a thursady night special 3 min heel push,
thus furthing the story arc of the brand split. Rosey and Jamala  get heat
and B and C get a new Tag Team to play with.  Ricco..who knows, maybe some
heat time would be good for him as a single.

All this of course at a time when the ratting are in the bottom of a 4
year valley of gloom, the last 2 years have been mostly squandered on
borken story arc promises and bad acting, and to top it all off Mick is no
longer ont he sceen so...bang bang...how can it be all good?

Well, its back to my growing ECW divx collection where Tajiri was the shiz
and Mick cut promos unrivaled by any of todays mic monkeys.

* Todays managers are a far cry form the managers of the 80's/early 90's.
Ricco is nota  Paul Bearer or a Jimmy Heart at all but more like a buddy
who goes to the ring with them and occasional interferes..ugh.




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0623.548822dc41bd6d1d7b5896c185874a5f.eml000066400000000000000000000054231444326627400310630ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 12 13:39:42 2002
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From: Tom 
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Subject: Bush blew take two
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63543-2002Sep10.html

"MIAMI, Sept. 10 -- A two-gram rock of crack
cocaine was found inside the shoe of Florida
Gov. Jeb Bush's 25-year-old daughter by workers
at the central Florida rehabilitation center
where she is undergoing court-ordered drug
treatment, Orlando police said today.

Noelle Bush was not arrested because witnesses
would not give sworn statements, but the
incident is under investigation, according to
Orlando police spokesman Orlando Rolon."

Wow, the witnesses would not nark of a Bush girl in an era where there are
no mare restrictions on being held without a cause?

Imagine that...

-tom



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0624.8461f3c63dd4843912d9f4807e7d68ad.eml000066400000000000000000000075011444326627400310700ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 12 13:39:44 2002
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From: "Geege Schuman" 
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Subject: RE: Bush blew take two
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yeshterday we f*cked up our gubernatorial election, too.  results to be
contested by reno.  same six districts that were sued in 2000 still came up
gimpy.

i suggested to jeb via e-mail we hold a run-off pinata party.  hoist up a
papier mache donkey and a papier mache elephant.  first one to batted open
wins.

-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of Tom
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 9:16 PM
To: fork@example.com
Subject: Bush blew take two


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63543-2002Sep10.html

"MIAMI, Sept. 10 -- A two-gram rock of crack
cocaine was found inside the shoe of Florida
Gov. Jeb Bush's 25-year-old daughter by workers
at the central Florida rehabilitation center
where she is undergoing court-ordered drug
treatment, Orlando police said today.

Noelle Bush was not arrested because witnesses
would not give sworn statements, but the
incident is under investigation, according to
Orlando police spokesman Orlando Rolon."

Wow, the witnesses would not nark of a Bush girl in an era where there are
no mare restrictions on being held without a cause?

Imagine that...

-tom







golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0625.42179d43c513cf5c4e9d9ef00e9235a1.eml000066400000000000000000000077541444326627400311360ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 12 13:39:46 2002
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From: "Geege Schuman" 
To: 
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meant "gubernatorial PRIMARY."

-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of Geege
Schuman
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 9:32 PM
To: Tom; fork@example.com
Subject: RE: Bush blew take two


yeshterday we f*cked up our gubernatorial election, too.  results to be
contested by reno.  same six districts that were sued in 2000 still came up
gimpy.

i suggested to jeb via e-mail we hold a run-off pinata party.  hoist up a
papier mache donkey and a papier mache elephant.  first one to batted open
wins.

-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of Tom
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 9:16 PM
To: fork@example.com
Subject: Bush blew take two


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63543-2002Sep10.html

"MIAMI, Sept. 10 -- A two-gram rock of crack
cocaine was found inside the shoe of Florida
Gov. Jeb Bush's 25-year-old daughter by workers
at the central Florida rehabilitation center
where she is undergoing court-ordered drug
treatment, Orlando police said today.

Noelle Bush was not arrested because witnesses
would not give sworn statements, but the
incident is under investigation, according to
Orlando police spokesman Orlando Rolon."

Wow, the witnesses would not nark of a Bush girl in an era where there are
no mare restrictions on being held without a cause?

Imagine that...

-tom











golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0626.190b1e937ba59bffd08f6acaee61417d.eml000066400000000000000000000045051444326627400314250ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 12 13:39:47 2002
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Subject: Something for the person who has everything
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Interesting ebay item......(and no it wasnt me even though the spellingis
oddly familar)

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=1764085998




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Subject: CBS News' interview w/Bush & reconstruction of his peregrinations
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"60 Minutes II" Bush Interview:

(CBS)�No president since Abraham Lincoln has seen such horrific loss of 
life in a war on American soil. No president since James Madison, nearly 
200 years ago, has seen the nation�s capital city successfully attacked. 
But, one year ago, President George W. Bush was thrown into the first 
great crisis of the 21st century.

This is the president�s story of September 11th and the week America 
went to war. 60 Minutes II spent two hours with Mr. Bush, one, on Air 
Force One and another in the Oval Office last week. Even after a year, 
the president is still moved, sometimes to the point of tears, when he 
remembers Sept. 11.

�I knew, the farther we get away from Sept.11, the more likely it is for 
some around the world to forget the mission, but not me,� Mr. Bush says 
during the Air Force One interview. �Not me. I made the pledge to myself 
and to people that I�m not going to forget what happened on Sept. 11. So 
long as I�m president, we will pursue the killers and bring them to 
justice. We owe that to those who have lost their lives.�

The memories come back sharp and clear on Air Force One, where Pelley 
joined the president for a recent trip across country. 60 Minutes II 
wanted to talk to him there because that is where he spent the first 
hours after the attack.

Not since Lyndon Johnson was sworn in on Air Force One has the airplane 
been so central to America in a crisis.

For President Bush, Sept. 11 2001, started with the usual routine. 
Before dawn, the president was on his four-mile run. It was just before 
6 a.m. and, at the same moment, another man was on the move: Mohammad 
Atta. Two hours later, as Mr. Bush drove to an elementary school, 
hijackers on four planes were murdering the flight crews and turning the 
airliners east. As the motorcade neared the school at 8:45 a.m., jet 
engines echoed in Manhattan.

Atta plunged the 767 jumbo jet into World Trade Center Tower One.

�I thought it was an accident,� says Mr. Bush. �I thought it was a pilot 
error. I thought that some foolish soul had gotten lost and - and made a 
terrible mistake.�

Mr. Bush was told about the first plane just before sitting down with a 
class of second graders. He was watching a reading drill when, just 
after nine, United Flight 175 exploded into the second tower. There was 
the sudden realization that what had seemed like a terrible mistake was 
a coordinated attack.

Back in the Florida classroom, press secretary Ari Fleischer got the 
news on his pager. The president�s chief-of-staff, Andy Card stepped in.

�A second plane hit the second tower; America is under attack,� Card 
told the president

When he said those words, what did he see in the President�s face?

�I saw him coming to recognition of what I had said,� Card recalls. �I 
think he understood that he was going to have to take command as 
commander-in-chief, not just as president.�

What was going through Bush�s mind when he heard the news?

�We�re at war and somebody has dared attack us and we�re going to do 
something about it,� Mr. Bush recalls. �I realized I was in a unique 
setting to receive a message that somebody attacked us, and I was 
looking at these little children and all of the sudden we were at war. I 
can remember noticing the press pool and the press corps beginning to 
get the calls and seeing the look on their face. And it became evident 
that we were, you know, that the world had changed.�

Mr. Bush walked into a classroom set up with a secure phone. He called 
the vice president, pulling the phone cord tight as he spun to see the 
attack on TV. Then he grabbed a legal pad and quickly wrote his first 
words to the nation.

"Ladies and gentlemen, this is a difficult moment for America,� he said 
in the speech. �Today, we�ve had a national tragedy.�

It was 9:30 a.m. As he spoke, Mr. Bush didn�t know that two more 
hijacked jets were streaking toward Washington. Vice Pesident Dick 
Cheney was in his office at the White House when a Secret Service agent 
ran in.

�He said to me, �Sir, we have to leave immediately� and grabbed, put a 
hand on my belt, another hand on my shoulder and propelled me out the 
door of my office,� Cheney recalls. �I�m not sure how they do it, but 
they sort of levitate you down the hallway, you move very fast.�

�There wasn�t a lot of time for chitchat, you know, with the vice 
president,� says Secret Service Director Brian Stafford, who was in his 
command center ordering the round-up of top officials and the First 
Family. He felt that he had only minutes to work with. �We knew there 
were unidentified planes tracking in our direction,� he says.

Cheney was rushed deep under the White House into a bunker called the 
Presidential Emergency Operations Center. It was built for war, and this 
was it. On her way down, National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice 
called Mr. Bush.

�It was brief because I was being pushed to get off the phone and get 
out of the West Wing,� says Rice. �They were hurrying me off the phone 
with the president and I just said, he said, �I�m coming back� and we 
said �Mr. President that may not be wise.� I remember stopping briefly 
to call my family, my aunt and uncle in Alabama and say, �I�m fine. You 
have to tell everybody that I�m fine� but then settling into trying to 
deal with the enormity of that moment, and in the first few hours, I 
think the thing that was on everybody�s mind was how many more planes 
are coming.�

The Capitol was evacuated. And for the first time ever, the Secret 
Service executed the emergency plan to ensure the presidential line of 
succession. Agents swept up the 15 officials who stood to become 
president if the others were killed. They wanted to move Vice President 
Cheney, fearing he was in danger even in the bunker. But Cheney says 
when he heard the other officials were safe, he decided to stay at the 
White House, no matter what.

�It�s important to emphasize it's not personal, you don�t think of it in 
personal terms, you�ve got a professional job to do,� says Cheney.

Cheney was joined by transportation secretary Norm Mineta who remembers 
hearing the FAA counting down the hijacked jets closing in on the 
capital.

Says Mineta: �Someone came in and said �Mr. Vice president there�s a 
plane 50 miles out,� then he came in and said �Its now 10 miles out, we 
don�t know where it is exactly, but it�s coming in low and fast.��

It was American Flight 77. At 9:38 a.m., it exploded into the Pentagon, 
the first successful attack on Washington since the War of 1812.

As the Pentagon burned, Mr. Bush�s limousine sped toward Air Force One 
in Florida. At that moment, United Flight 93 - the last hijacked plane - 
was taking dead aim at Washington. At the White House, the staff was in 
the West Wing cafeteria, watching on TV. Press Secretary Jennifer 
Millerwise was in the crowd when the order came to evacuate.

�I no sooner walked outside when someone from the Secret Service yelled 
�Women drop your heels and run, drop your heels and run,� and suddenly 
the gates that never open except for authorized vehicles just opened and 
the whole White House just flooded out,� she recalls.

In Florida, as Mr. Bush boarded Air Force One, he was overheard telling 
a Secret Service agent �Be sure to get the First Lady and my daughters 
protected.� At 9:57 a.m., Air Force One thundered down the runway, 
blasting smoke and dust in a full -hrust take off. Communications 
Director Dan Bartlett was on board.

�It was like a rocket,� he remembers. �For a good ten minutes, the plane 
was going almost straight up.�

At the same moment, 56 minutes after it was hit, World Trade Center 
Tower Two began to falter, then cascade in an incomprehensible avalanche 
of steel, concrete and human lives.

�Someone said to me, �Look at that� I remember that, �Look at that� and 
I looked up and I saw and I just remember a cloud of dust and smoke and 
the horror of that moment,� recalls Rice of the TV newscast.

She also felt something in her gut: �That we�ve lost a lot of Americans 
and that eventually we would get these people. I felt the anger. Of 
course I felt the anger.�

Down in the bunker, Cheney was trying to figure out how many hijacked 
planes there were. Officials feared there could be as many as 11.

As the planes track toward Washington, a discussion begins about whether 
to shoot them down. �I discussed it with the president,� Cheney 
recalls. ��Are we prepared to order our aircraft to shoot down these 
airliners that have been hijacked?� He said yes.�

�It was my advice. It was his decision,� says Cheney.

�That�s a sobering moment to order your own combat aircraft to shoot 
down your own civilian aircraft,� says Bush. �But it was an easy 
decision to make given the � given the fact that we had learned that a 
commercial aircraft was being used as a weapon. I say easy decision, it 
was, I didn�t hesitate, let me put it that way. I knew what had to be 
done.�

The passengers on United Flight 93 also knew what had to be done. They 
fought for control and sacrificed themselves in a Pennsylvania meadow. 
The flight was 15 minutes from Washington.

�Clearly, the terrorists were trying to take out as many symbols of 
government as they could: the Pentagon, perhaps the Capitol, perhaps the 
White House. These people saved us not only physically but they saved us 
psychologically and symbolically in a very important way, too,� says 
Rice.

Meanwhile, Tower One was weakening. It had stood for an hour and 43 
minutes. At 10:29 a.m., it buckled in a mirror image of the collapse of 
its twin.

The image that went round the world reached the First Lady in a secure 
location somewhere in Washington. �I was horrified,� she says. �I 
thought, �Dear God, protect as many citizens as you can.� It was a 
nightmare.�

By 10:30 a.m., America�s largest city was devastated, its military 
headquarters were burning. Air force One turned west along the Gulf 
Coast.

�I can remember sitting right here in this office thinking about the 
consequences of what had taken place and realizing it was the defining 
moment in the history of the United States,� says President Bush. �I 
didn�t need any legal briefs, I didn�t need any consultations, I knew we 
were at war.�

Mr. Bush says the first hours were frustrating. He watched the 
horrifying pictures, but the TV signal was breaking up. His calls to 
Cheney were cutting out. Mr. Bush says he pounded his desk shouting, 
�This is inexcusable; get me the vice president.�

�I was trying to clear the fog of war, and there is a fog of war, says 
the president. "Information was just flying from all directions.�

Chief of staff Card brought in the reports. There was word Camp David 
had been hit. A jet was thought to be targeting Mr. Bush�s ranch.

�I remember hearing that the State Department might have been hit, or 
that the White House had a fire in it. So we were hearing lots of 
different information,� says Card.

They also feared that Air Force One itself was a target. Cheney told the 
president there was a credible threat against the plane. Using the code 
name for Air Force One, Mr. Bush told an aide, �Angel is next.� The 
threat was passed to presidential pilot Colonel Mark Tillman.

�It was serious before that but now it is -no longer is it a time to get 
the president home,� Tillman says. �We actually have to consider 
everything we say, everything we do could be intercepted, and we have to 
make sure that no one knows what our position is.�

Tillman asked for an armed guard at his cockpit door while Secret 
Service agents double-checked the identity of everyone on board. The 
crew reviewed the emergency evacuation plan. Then came a warning from 
air traffic control � a suspect airliner was dead ahead.

�Coming out of Sarasota there was one call that said there was an 
airliner off our nose that they did not have contact with,� Tillman 
remembers.

Tillman took evasive action, pulling his plane high above normal 
traffic. They were on course for Washington, but by now no one thought 
that was a good idea, except the president.

�I wanted to come back to Washington, but the circumstances were such 
that it was just impossible for the Secret Service or the national 
security team to clear the way for Air Force One to come back,� says 
Bush.

So Air Force One set course for an underground command center in 
Nebraska. Back in Washington, the president�s closest advisor, Karen 
Hughes, heard about the threat to the plane and placed a call to Mr. 
Bush.

�And the military operator came back to me and in a voice that, to me, 
sounded very shaken said, �Ma�am, I�m sorry, we can�t reach Air Force 
One.�� Hughes recalls. Hughes was out of the White House during the 
attacks. When she came back, it was a place she didn�t recognize.

�There were either military, or maybe Secret Service, dressed all in 
black, holding machine guns as, as we drove up. And I never expected to 
see something like that in, in our nation's capital,� says Hughes.

When she walked into the White House, no one was inside. �I knew it was 
a day that you didn't want to surprise anybody, and so I yelled, 
�Hello?� and two, again, kind of SWAT team members came running, running 
through the, the hall with, again, guns drawn, and then took me to, to 
the location where I met the vice president.�

On Air Force One, Col. Tillman had a problem. He needed to hide the most 
visible plane in the world, a 747 longer than the White House itself. He 
didn�t want to use his radio, because the hijackers could be listening 
to air traffic control. So he called air traffic control on the 
telephone.

�We actually didn't tell them our destination or what directions we were 
heading,� says Tillman. �We, we basically just talked to 'em and said, 
'OK, fine, we have no clearance at this time, we are just going to fly 
across the United States.'�

Controllers passed Air Force One from one sector to another, warning 
each other to keep the route secret.

�OK, where�s he going?� one tower radioed to another.

�Just watch him,� a second tower responded. �Don�t question him where�s 
he's going. Just work him and watch him, there�s no flight plan in and 
we�re not going to put anything in. Ok, sir?�

Air Force One ordered a fighter escort, and air traffic control radioed 
back: �Air Force One, got two F-16s at about your 10 o�clock position.�

�The staff, and the president and us, were filed out along the outside 
hallway of his presidential cabin there and looking out the windows,� 
says Bartlett. �And the president gives them a signal of salute, and the 
pilot kind of tips his wing, and fades off and backs into formation.�

The men in the F-16s were Shane Brotherton and Randy Roberts, from the 
Texas Air National Guard. Their mission was so secret their commander 
wouldn�t tell them where they were going.

�He just said, 'You�ll know when you see it,' and that was my first 
clue, I didn�t have any idea what we were going up until that point,� 
says Brotherton. He knew when he saw it.

�We, we were trying to keep an 80-mile bubble, bubble around Air Force 
One, and we'd investigate anything that was within 80 miles,� says 
Roberts.

Bush says he was not worried about the safety of the people on this 
aircraft, or for his own safety: �I looked out the airplane and saw two 
F-16s on each wing. It was going to have to be a pretty good pilot to 
get us.�

We now know that the threat to Air Force One was part of the fog of war, 
a false alarm. But it had a powerful effect at the time. Some wondered, 
with the president out of sight, was he still running the government? He 
hadn�t appeared after the attack on Washington. Mr. Bush was clearly 
worried about it. At one point he was overheard saying, �The American 
people want to know where their dang president is.� The staff considered 
an address to the nation by phone but instead Mr. Bush ordered Air Force 
One to land somewhere within 30 minutes so he could appear on TV. At 
11:45 a.m., they landed at Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana.

�The resolve of our great nation is being tested. But make no mistake, 
we will show the world that we will pass this test. God bless,� Bush 
said to the nation from Barksdale.

At Barksdale, the Secret Service believed the situation in Washington 
was still unsafe. So the plane continued on to Nebraska, to the command 
center where Mr. Bush would be secure and have all the communications 
gear he needed to run the government. Aboard Air Force One, Mr. Bush had 
a job for press secretary Fleischer.

�The president asked me to make sure that I took down everything that 
was said. I think he wanted to make certain that a record existed,� says 
Fleischer

Fleischer�s notes capture Mr. Bush�s language, plain and unguarded. To 
the vice president he said: �We�re at war, Dick, we�re going to find out 
who did this and kick their ass.� Another time, Mr. Bush said, �We�re 
not going to have any slap-on-the-wrist crap this time.�

The President adds, �I can remember telling the Secretary of Defense, I 
said, �We�re going to find out who did this and then Mr. Secretary, you 
and Dick Myers,� who we just named as chairman of the joint chiefs, �are 
going to go get them.��

By 3 p.m., Air Force One touched down at Offutt Air Force Base in 
Nebraska. Mr. Bush and his team were herded into a small brick hut that 
gave no hint of what they would find below.

At the bottom of the stairs was the U.S. Strategic Command Underground 
Command Center. It was built to transmit a president�s order to go to 
nuclear war. But when Mr. Bush walked in, the battle staff was watching 
the skies over the United States. Many airplanes had still not landed. 
After a short briefing, Mr. Bush and Card were taken to a teleconference 
center which connected them to the White House, the Pentagon, the FBI 
and the CIA. Mr. Bush had a question for his CIA Director George Tenent.

According to Rice, Bush asked Tenent who had done this. Rice recalls 
that Tenent answered: �Sir, I believe its al Qaeda. We�re doing the 
assessment but it looks like, it feels like, it smells like al Qaeda.�

The evidence would build. FBI Director Robert Mueller says that an 
essential clue came from one of the hijacked planes before it crashed.

A flight attendant on American Flight 11, Amy Sweeney, had the presence 
of mind to call her office as the plane was hijacked and give them the 
seat numbers of the hijackers. �That was the first piece of hard 
evidence. We could then go to the manifest, find out who was sitting in 
those seats and immediately conduct an investigation of those 
individuals, as opposed to taking all the passengers on the plane and 
going through a process of elimination,� says Mueller.

In Nebraska, the White House staff was preparing for an address to the 
nation from the Air Force bunker, but by then the president had had 
enough. He decided to come back.

�At one point, he said he didn�t want any tinhorn terrorist keeping him 
out of Washington,� Fleischer says. �That verbatim.�

On board, he was already thinking of issuing an ultimatum to the world: 
�I had time to think and a couple of thoughts emerged. One was that 
you're guilty if you harbor a terrorist, because I knew these terrorists 
like al-Qaeda liked to prey on weak government and weak people. The 
other thought that came was the opportunity to fashion a vast coalition 
of countries that would either be with us or with the terrorists.�

As Air Force One sped east, the last casualty of the attack on America 
collapsed, one of the nation�s worst days wore into evening. At the 
World Trade Center, 2,801 were killed; at the Pentagon, 184; and in 
Pennsylvania 40. Altogether, there were 3,025 dead.

�Anybody who would attack America the way they did, anybody who would 
take innocent life the way they did, anybody who's so devious, is evil,� 
Bush said recently.

Mr. Bush would soon see that evil face to face. After arriving in 
Washington, he boarded his helicopter and flew past the Pentagon on the 
way to the White House.

Was there a time when he was afraid that there might not be a White 
House to return to? �I don�t remember thinking about whether or not the 
White House would have been obliterated," he recalls. "I think I might 
have thought they took their best shot, and now it was time for us to 
take our best shot.�

Mr. Bush arrived back at the White House nine hours after the attacks. 
His next step was an address to the nation. Karen Hughes and her staff 
were already working on the speech.

�He decided that the primary tone he wanted to strike that night was 
reassurance,� remembers Hughes. �We had to show resolve, we had to 
reassure people, we had to let them know that we would be OK.�

Just off the Oval Office, Mr. Bush added the words that would become 
known as the Bush Doctrine - no distinction between terrorists and those 
who harbor them. The staff wanted to add a declaration of war but Mr. 
Bush didn�t think the American people wanted to hear it that night and 
he was emphatic about that.

He prepared to say it from the same desk where Franklin Roosevelt first 
heard the news of Pearl Harbor. Now Bush was commander in chief. Eighty 
million Americans were watching.

�Today our fellow citizens, our way of life, our very freedom came under 
attack in a series of deliberate and deadly terrorist acts,� he said 
from the Oval Office that night.

The Oval Office speech came at the end of the bloodiest day in American 
history since the Civil War. Before he walked to the White House 
residence for the night, Mr. Bush dictated these words for the White 
House daily log: �The Pearl Harbor of the 21st century took place today. 
We think it's Osama bin Laden.�

(CBS)�When Sept. 12 dawned, President Bush was demanding a war plan. No 
one in the White House or the Pentagon could be sure of what the 
president would do. In office for just eight months, he�d never been 
tested as commander-in-chief.

�I never asked them what they thought,� President Bush said of the 
Pentagon brass, �because I didn�t really � because I knew what I was 
gonna do. I knew exactly what had to be done, Scott. And that was to set 
a strategy to seek justice. Find out who did it, hunt them down and 
bring them to justice.�

In the cabinet room, the president made clear what was next: �The 
deliberate and deadly attacks which were carried out yesterday against 
our country were more than acts of terror, they were acts of war,� he 
said.

To the war cabinet, al Qaeda was no surprise. National Security Advisor 
Condoleezza Rice says the administration had been at work on a plan to 
strike bin Laden�s organization well before Sept. 11.

�The president said, �You know I�m tired of swatting at flies, I need a 
strategy to eliminate these guys,�� Rice recalls.

In one of the worst intelligence failures ever, the CIA and FBI didn�t 
pick up clues that an attack in the United States was imminent. Without 
a sense of urgency, the White House strategy the president had asked for 
came too late.

Chief of Staff Andrew Card recalls that the plan Mr. Bush had asked for 
was �literally headed to the president�s desk, I think, on the eleventh, 
tenth or eleventh, of September.�

On Sept. 12, the war cabinet was debating the full range of options - 
who to hit and how to hit them. There were some at the Pentagon who 
worried in the early hours that Mr. Bush would order up an immediate 
cruise missile strike, of the kind that had not deterred bin Laden in 
the past.

�Well, there�s a lot of nervous Nellies at the Pentagon, anyway,� Mr. 
Bush tells Pelley. �A lot of people like to chatter, you know, more than 
they should. But no, I appreciate that very much. Secretary of Defense 
(Donald) Rumsfeld early on discussed the idea of making sure we had what 
we called �boots on the ground.� That if you�re gonna go to war, then 
you�ve gotta go to war with all your assets.�

The president says he wanted to �fight and win a guerilla war with 
conventional means.�

It was an innovative but risky idea being proposed by CIA Director 
George Tenent. Tenent wanted to combine American technology and 
intelligence with the brute force of Afghan fighters hostile to the 
Taliban government.

Secretary of State Colin Powell, noting that the CIA had already 
developed a long relationship with the Afghan resistance, called it an 
unconventional solution to an unconventional problem.

�As I like to describe it to my friends,� Powell says, �we had on the 
ground a Fourth World army riding horses and living in tents with some 
CIA and special forces with them and we had a First World air force, the 
best in the world. How do you connect it all?�

The president gave them 48 hours to figure it out.

Meanwhile, Mr. Bush went to the battlefield himself. Just the day 
before, he had called the Pentagon the �mightiest building in the 
world.� Now one-fifth of it was in ruins. The wreckage of American 
Flight 77 was being examined by Navy investigators. And before Mr. Bush 
left, he made a point of speaking personally with the team recovering 
the remains of the first casualties of war on his watch.
The next day, Sept. 13, there was another warning of attack that the 
public never heard about. Threats had been were coming in constantly but 
this one sounded credible: a large truck bomb headed to the White House. 
The Secret Service wanted the president back in the bunker.

�He wasn�t real receptive to that, to that recommendation,� remembers 
Brian Stafford, director of the Secret Service. �And he ordered a 
hamburger and said he was going to stay in the White House that evening 
and that�s what he did.�

The next day, would be one of the longest and the most difficult for the 
president. On Friday, Sept. 14, Mr. Bush started the day with a cabinet 
meeting, but he wept when he walked in and was surprised by applause.

�He sat down, slightly overcome, for a moment but he recaptured it,� 
says Powell who remembers being worried that the president might have 
trouble getting through his speech at the national memorial service 
later that morning.

�And I just scribbled a little note to him,� Powell recalls, �and I 
said, �Mr. President, I�ve learned over the years when you are going to 
give a very emotional speech, watch out for certain words that will 
cause you to start to tear up.� He looked at me and he smiled and then 
at the next break in the conversation he said, �The Secretary of State 
told me not to break down at the memorial service,� and that broke the 
tension and everybody started laughing and I felt embarrassed.�

First Lady Laura Bush was involved in planning the memorial service and 
she says she wanted it to be both dignified and comforting. �I wanted 
the Psalms and everything to be read to be comforting, because I think 
we were a country, that needed, everyone of us, needed comforting.�

It also stirred the mourners� resolve, as Rice remember. �As we stood to 
sing the Battle Hymn of the Republic,� she says, �you could feel the 
entire congregation and I could certainly feel myself stiffen, the kind 
of spine, and this deep sadness was being replaced by resolve.

�We all felt that we still had mourning to do for our countrymen who had 
been lost but that we also had a new purpose in not just avenging what 
had happened to them but making certain that the world was eventually 
going to be safe from this kind of attack ever again.�

Next came a visit to ground zero. The president was not prepared for 
what he encountered there.

�You couldn�t brief me, you couldn�t brief anybody on ground zero until 
you saw it," Mr. Bush says. �It was like � it was ghostly. Like you�re 
having a bad dream and you�re walking through the dream.�

The president found the scene very powerful, particularly when the men 
and women at ground zero began to chant, �USA! USA!.�

�There was a lot of bloodlust,� the president recalls. �People were, you 
know, pointing their big old hands at me saying, �Don�t you ever forget 
this, Mr. President. Don�t let us down.� The scene was very powerful. 
Very powerful.�

When Mr. Bush tried to speak, the crowd kept shouting, �We can�t hear 
you.�

The president responded, �I can hear you. I can hear you. The rest of 
the world hears you. And the people who knocked these buildings down 
will hear all of us soon.�

Mr. Bush had been in New York just a few weeks before; he�d posed with 
the firemen who always stood by whenever the president�s helicopter 
landed there. Now, five of the men who stood with the president in the 
picture were dead � lost at ground zero.

When the president arrived Sept. 14, Manhattan was papered with the 
faces of the lost. Families, unable to believe that so many had vanished 
in an instant, held onto the hope that their loved ones were just 
missing. It was a place where a child comforted a grieving mother.

At a meeting the public never saw, the president spoke with several 
hundred of these families in a convention hall.

�People said to me, �He�ll come out. Don�t worry, Mr. president, we�ll 
see him soon. I know my loved one, he will - he�ll find a place to 
survive underneath the rubble and we�ll get him out.� I, on the other 
hand had been briefed about the realities, and my job was to hug and 
cry, but I remember the whole time thinking, �This is incredibly sad 
because the loved ones won�t come out.��

One little boy handed the president a picture of his father in his 
firefighter uniform and as he signed it, Mr. Bush remembers, he told the 
boy, �Your daddy won�t believe that I was here, so you show him that 
autograph.�

It was an effort �to provide a little hope,� the president recalls. �I 
still get emotional thinking about it because we�re dealing with people 
who loved their dads or loved their mom, or loved their�wives who loved 
their husbands. It was a tough time, you know, it was a tough time for 
all of us because we were a very emotional, and I was emotional at 
times. I felt, I felt the same now as I did then, which is sad. And I 
still feel sad for those who grieve for their families, but through my 
tears, I see opportunity.�

The president was supposed to be with the families for about 30 minutes; 
he stayed for two and a half hours. It was there he met Arlene Howard. 
The body of her son, George, was among the first to be found at ground 
zero.

�I called the police department,� Howard remembers, � and they said he 
hadn�t called in for roll call and to call back in an hour and I said, 
�No, I don�t need to call back.� If he hadn�t called in, I knew where he 
was.�

George Howard had rescued children trapped in an elevator back in 1993 
when the World Trade Center was bombed. He had been off duty that day, 
and he was off duty on Sept. 11, but couldn�t stay away. The police 
department gave his badge to his mother and she gave it to the president.

�He (the president) he leaned over to talk to me,� Howard recalls. �And 
he extends his sympathy to me and that�s when I asked him I�d like to 
present George�s shield to him in honor of all the men and women who 
were killed over there.�

By the end of that day, Mr. Bush flew to Camp David visibly drained.

�He was physically exhausted, he was mentally exhausted, he was 
emotionally exhausted, he was spiritually exhausted,� recalls Card..

The next day � Saturday, Sept. 15 - Mr. Bush met members of his war 
cabinet at the presidential retreat for a last decisive meeting.

�My message is for everybody who wears the uniform � get ready. The 
United States will do what it takes,� Mr. Bush told them.

As Powell remembers it, �He was encouraging us to think boldly. He was 
listening to all ideas; he was not constrained to any one idea; he 
wanted to hear his advisors talk and argue and debate with each other.�

President Bush was pleased with the progress that had been made. �On the 
other hand,� he says, �I wanted to clarify plans and I went around the 
room and I asked everybody what they thought ought to happen.�

When he left that meeting on Saturday night, he still had not told the 
cabinet what he was planning.

�I wanted to just think it through,� Mr. Bush remembers. �Any time you 
commit troops to harm�s way, a president must make sure that he fully 
understands all the consequences and ramifications. And I wanted to just 
spend some time on it alone. And did.�

What were his reservations?

Mr. Bush says, �Could we win? I didn�t want to be putting our troops in 
there unless I was certain we could win. And I was certain we could win.�

Nine days after the attacks on America, before a joint session of 
Congress the president committed the nation to the war on terror.

�Each of us will remember what happened that day and to whom it 
happened,� Mr. Bush told the Congress and the nation. �We�ll remember 
the moment the news came, where we were and what we were doing. Some 
will remember an image of a fire or a story of rescue. Some will carry 
memories of a face and a voice gone forever. And I will carry this. It 
is the police shield of a man named George Howard, who died at the World 
Trade Center trying to save others. It was given to me by his mom, 
Arlene, as a proud memorial to her son. It is my reminder of lives that 
ended and a task that does not end.�

A year has passed since then, but the president says his job is still to 
remind Americans of what happened and of the war that is still being 
waged, a war he reminds himself of every day in the Oval Office, 
literally keeping score, one terrorist at a time.

In his desk, the president says, �I have a classified document that 
might have some pictures on there, just to keep reminding me about who�s 
out there, where they might be�

And as the terrorists are captures or killed? �I might make a little 
check there, yeah,� Mr. Bush admits.

But there is no check by the name that must be on the top of that list � 
Osama bin Laden.

(CBS)�A lot has happened in the year since Sept. 11. One year ago, the 
president was new on the job, with little experience in foreign policy. 
He had wanted to pull the military back from foreign entanglements. Now, 
on his orders, U.S. forces are engaged around the globe in a war he did 
not expect, in a world completely changed. In the Oval Office last week, 
CBS News Correspondent Scott Pelley asked the president about Iraq, 
about whether Americans are safe at home and about Osama bin Laden.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Scott Pelley: You must be frustrated, maybe angry. After a year, we 
still don�t have Osama Bin Laden?

President Bush: How do you know that? I don�t know whether Osama bin 
Laden is dead or alive. I don�t know that. He�s not leading a lot of 
parades. And he�s not nearly the hero that a lot of people thought he 
was. This is much bigger than one person anyway. This is � we�re slowly 
but surely dismantling and disrupting the al Qaeda network that, that 
hates America. And we will stay on task until we complete the task. I 
always knew this was a different kind of war, Scott. See, in the old 
days, you measure the size and the strength of the enemy by counting his 
tanks or his airplanes and his ships. This is an international manhunt. 
We�re after these people one at the time. They�re killers. Period.

Pelley: But have you won the war before you find Osama bin Laden dead or 
alive?

Mr. Bush: If he were dead, there�s somebody else to replace him. And we 
would find that person. But slowly but surely, we will dismantle the al 
Qaeda network. And those who sponsor them and those who harbor them. And 
at the same time, hopefully lay the seeds for, the conditions necessary 
so that people don�t feel like they�ve got to conduct terror to achieve 
objectives.

Pelley: Do you look back on the Afghan campaign with any doubts? 
Certainly, we�ve overthrown the Taliban government. Certainly, al Qaeda 
has been scattered. But some of the Taliban leaders appear to have 
gotten away. And there have been many civilian casualties as well.

Mr. Bush: Uh huh. Well, you know, I am sad that civilians lost their 
life. But I understand war. We did everything we can to � everything we 
could to protect people. When civilians did die, it was because of a 
mistake. Certainly not because of intention. We liberated a country for 
which I�m extremely proud. No, � I don�t second guess things. It�s � 
things never go perfect in a time of war.

Pelley: Are you committed to ending the rule of Saddam Hussein?

Mr. Bush: I�m committed to regime change.

Pelley: There are those who have been vocal in their advice against war 
in Iraq. Some of our allies in the Gulf War, Saudi Arabia, Turkey for 
example. Even your father�s former national security advisor, Mr. 
Scowcroft has written about it in the paper. What is it in your 
estimation that they don�t understand about the Iraq question that you 
do appreciate?

Mr. Bush: The policy of the government is regime change, Scott, hasn�t 
changed. I get all kinds of advice. I�m listening to the advice. I 
appreciate the consultations. And we�ll consult with a lot of people but 
our policy hasn�t changed.

Pelley: On Air Force One you described the terrorists as evil.

Mr. Bush: Yeah.

Pelley: I don�t think anyone would disagree with that, but at the same 
time, many in the Arab world are angry at the United States for 
political reasons because of our policy in Israel or our troops in the 
oil region of the Middle East. Is there any change in foreign policy 
that you�re considering that might reduce Arab anger against the United 
States.

Mr. Bush: Hmm. Well, I�m working for peace in the Middle East. I�m the 
first president that ever went to the United Nations and publicly 
declared the need to have a Palestinian state living side-by-side with 
Israel in peace. I�ve made it clear that in order for there to be peace 
the Palestinians have gotta to get some leadership that renounces terror 
and believes in peaces and quits using the Palestinian people as pawns. 
I've also made it clear to the other Arab nations in the region that 
they�ve got responsibilities. If you want peace they gotta work toward 
it. We�re more than willing to work for it, but they have to work for it 
as well. But all this business isn�t going to happen as long as a few 
are willing to blow up the hopes of many. So we all gotta work to fight 
off terror.

Pelley: Arafat has to go?

Mr. Bush: Either, he�s, he�s been a complete failure as far as I am 
concerned. Utter disappointment.

Pelley: There has been some concern over the year about civil liberties.

Mr. Bush: Yeah�

Pelley: In fact, an appeals court recently was harsh about your 
administration�s decision to close certain deportation hearings. They 
said, quote, �A government operating in secrecy stands in opposition to 
the Constitution.� Where do you draw the line sir?

Mr. Bush: I draw the line at the Constitution. We will protect America. 
But we will do so on, within the guidelines of the Constitution, 
confines of the Constitution, spirit of the Constitution.

Pelley: Is there anything that the Justice Department has brought to you 
as an idea that you�ve thought, �No, that�s too far. I don�t wanna go�"

Mr. Bush: Nah, not that that I remember. And I am pleased with the 
Justice Department. I think that Attorney General�s doing a fine job, by 
the way...and to the extent that our courts are willing to make sure 
that they review decisions we make, I think that�s fine. I mean, that�s 
good. It�s healthy. It�s part of America.

Pelley: Franklin Roosevelt said that America should stand in defense of 
four freedoms. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom from want 
and freedom from fear. Do we have that today Mr. President? Freedom from 
fear?

Mr. Bush: I think more than we did, in retrospect. The fact that we are 
on alert, the fact that we understand the new circumstances makes us 
more free from fear than on that fateful day of September the 11th. 
We�ve got more work to do.

Pelley: And Americans should not live their lives in fear?

Mr. Bush: I don�t think so. No. I think Americans oughta know their 
government�s doing everything possible to help. And obviously if we get 
information that relates directly a particular attack we�ll deal with 
it. And if we get noise that deals with a general attack, we�ll alert 
people. There are a lot of good folks working hard to disrupt and deny 
and run down leads. And the American people need to go about their 
lives. It seems like they are.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0628.731724cb11140a651d8ad58451ea5c79.eml000066400000000000000000000054061444326627400307550ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 12 21:21:39 2002
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To: fork@example.com
Subject: dylsexics of the wrold, untie!
From: Dave Long 
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> (and no it wasnt me even though the spellingis
> oddly familar)

Not that this is news to FoRKs, but:



> ... randomising letters in the middle of words [has] little or no
> effect on the ability of skilled readers to understand the text. This
> is easy to denmtrasote. In a pubiltacion of New Scnieitst you could
> ramdinose all the letetrs, keipeng the first two and last two the same,
> and reibadailty would hadrly be aftcfeed. My ansaylis did not come
> to much beucase the thoery at the time was for shape and senqeuce
> retigcionon.  Saberi's work sugsegts we may have some pofrweul palrlael
> prsooscers at work. The resaon for this is suerly that idnetiyfing
> coentnt by paarllel prseocsing speeds up regnicoiton. We only need
> the first and last two letetrs to spot chganes in meniang.

-Dave


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0629.8a0d84ac5694ddcc8474e5a1d55b53d3.eml000066400000000000000000000066211444326627400312740ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 12 21:21:41 2002
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From: "Gordon Mohr" 
To: 
References: <200209121922.MAA07568@maltesecat>
Subject: Re: dylsexics of the wrold, untie!
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Dave Long writes:
> > (and no it wasnt me even though the spellingis
> > oddly familar)
> 
> Not that this is news to FoRKs, but:
> 
> 
> 
> > ... randomising letters in the middle of words [has] little or no
> > effect on the ability of skilled readers to understand the text. This
> > is easy to denmtrasote. In a pubiltacion of New Scnieitst you could
> > ramdinose all the letetrs, keipeng the first two and last two the same,
> > and reibadailty would hadrly be aftcfeed. My ansaylis did not come
> > to much beucase the thoery at the time was for shape and senqeuce
> > retigcionon.  Saberi's work sugsegts we may have some pofrweul palrlael
> > prsooscers at work. The resaon for this is suerly that idnetiyfing
> > coentnt by paarllel prseocsing speeds up regnicoiton. We only need
> > the first and last two letetrs to spot chganes in meniang.

Hmm, there's probably a patentable input-method for 
touch-tone keypads in there somewhere.

- Gordon


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0630.fe9381ba8a0b28e57cc0f481d658e0d0.eml000066400000000000000000000076261444326627400312670ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 12 21:21:43 2002
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Subject: Re: dylsexics of the wrold, untie!
From: James Rogers 
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On Thu, 2002-09-12 at 12:22, Dave Long wrote:
> 
> 
> > ... randomising letters in the middle of words [has] little or no
> > effect on the ability of skilled readers to understand the text. This
> > is easy to denmtrasote. In a pubiltacion of New Scnieitst you could
> > ramdinose all the letetrs, keipeng the first two and last two the same,
> > and reibadailty would hadrly be aftcfeed. My ansaylis did not come
> > to much beucase the thoery at the time was for shape and senqeuce
> > retigcionon.  Saberi's work sugsegts we may have some pofrweul palrlael
> > prsooscers at work. The resaon for this is suerly that idnetiyfing
> > coentnt by paarllel prseocsing speeds up regnicoiton. We only need
> > the first and last two letetrs to spot chganes in meniang.


I'm working with an experimental text recognition/processing engine that
exhibits similar characteristics.  It can read right through
misspellings like the above without any difficulty.  And as the author
above suggested, the pattern matching is inherently parallel internally.

If the text recognition algorithm/architecture humans use is anything
like the algorithm/structure we've been working with, the reason the
first letter (and to a lesser extent, the last letter) is important is
that without it the text pattern recognition problem is exponentially
more difficult (from a theoretical standpoint anyway) and has to be
resolved using deeper abstraction analysis.  The middle letters are far
less important and computationally much easier to resolve correctly.  

Cheers,

-James Rogers
 jamesr@best.com


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Subject: Re: dylsexics of the wrold, untie!
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So much for carnivore ;)

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
  "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0632.5a55cc359e591b1264cefa42b228df98.eml000066400000000000000000000047211444326627400312100ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 12 21:21:46 2002
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From: Tom 
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Subject: Re: dylsexics of the wrold, untie!
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On 12 Sep 2002, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:

--]
--]So much for carnivore ;)

Yep, that ws the plan all alng with my typos, I am the only one to be
consistently fighting the evls of da vore.



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0633.f47f5c3a3dc10c57366f5715ef33fe3e.eml000066400000000000000000000061251444326627400312710ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 12 21:21:48 2002
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From: Eugen Leitl 
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On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, Tom wrote:

> Yep, that ws the plan all alng with my typos, I am the only one to be
> consistently fighting the evls of da vore.

Well, yeah, but there's an easier way.
	
	http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=STARTTLS&spell=1

There's still MITM, but it requires a far higher capability, and is easier
to detect once you go beyond the scamed interaction of two parties, since
being manipulative in principle.

If you run your own mailserver, or have a say in what your host does, make 
him adopt STARTTLS.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0634.2da7e83d50baee90c3c9defd2aa30b72.eml000066400000000000000000000061421444326627400315450ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep 13 13:37:25 2002
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From: "Bill Stoddard" 
To: "Fork@Xent.Com" 
Subject: RE: dylsexics of the wrold, untie!
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> If the text recognition algorithm/architecture humans use is anything
> like the algorithm/structure we've been working with, the reason the
> first letter (and to a lesser extent, the last letter) is important is
> that without it the text pattern recognition problem is exponentially
> more difficult (from a theoretical standpoint anyway) and has to be
> resolved using deeper abstraction analysis.  The middle letters are far
> less important and computationally much easier to resolve correctly.

I think keeping the number of middle letters consistent with the correct
spelling is important.  Would be interesting to see if this same effect is
applicable to written forms of other languages, maybe even Japanese romongi.

Bill


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0635.9df0cec793507fcd3cab877c7d7616be.eml000066400000000000000000000135151444326627400314460ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep 13 13:37:27 2002
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I am delurking to comment on the Salon article. I just wanted to say that I am grateful they choose not to publish my forbidden thought. I sent it in a couple of days before the 9/11 commeration. If I had just watched the sentimental network and cable shows on 9/11 my cynical thoughts would have remain unchanged. However, I watch the Frontline show "Faith and Doubt at Ground Zero" on PBS. That show tackled head on, with much more courage than I have seen elsewhere, the larger questions about good and evil, about art as an alternate religion (Karlheinz Stockhausen -- 9/11 was a great work of art), and especially the question about how religion has a darker side which when carried to fanatic extremes tends to negate the humanity of the non-believers.
I am not a religious person but I stunned at the scope of this program. It talked about the Lutheran minister who spoke at Yankees Stadium on a podium with other religious leaders present who was charged with heresy by his own church for promoting the idea that all religions are equal (presumably the Lutherans have the one true path?).
Thanks for listening, I just felt like I needed to put the word out about this program. My shallow comment on Salon and others like it (my boyfriend and I had sex while the towers collapsed) gives me pause about how some of us tend to harden ourselves to the suffering of others.
Mike
 Chris Haun wrote:i though this was all rather interesting, first bit of 9/11 coverage that 
i've liked.

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2002/09/11/forbidden_letters/index.html

Chris



---------------------------------
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Yahoo! News - Today's headlines
--0-1051763016-1031874793=:3397
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I am delurking to comment on the Salon article. I just wanted to say that I am grateful they choose not to publish my forbidden thought. I sent it in a couple of days before the 9/11 commeration. If I had just watched the sentimental network and cable shows on 9/11 my cynical thoughts would have remain unchanged. However, I watch the Frontline show "Faith and Doubt at Ground Zero" on PBS. That show tackled head on, with much more courage than I have seen elsewhere, the larger questions about good and evil, about art as an alternate religion (Karlheinz Stockhausen -- 9/11 was a great work of art), and especially the question about how religion has a darker side which when carried to fanatic extremes tends to negate the humanity of the non-believers.

I am not a religious person but I stunned at the scope of this program. It talked about the Lutheran minister who spoke at Yankees Stadium on a podium with other religious leaders present who was charged with heresy by his own church for promoting the idea that all religions are equal (presumably the Lutherans have the one true path?).

Thanks for listening, I just felt like I needed to put the word out about this program. My shallow comment on Salon and others like it (my boyfriend and I had sex while the towers collapsed) gives me pause about how some of us tend to harden ourselves to the suffering of others.

Mike

 Chris Haun wrote:

i though this was all rather interesting, first bit of 9/11 coverage that 
i've liked.

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2002/09/11/forbidden_letters/index.html

Chris

Do you Yahoo!?

Yahoo! News - Today's headlines
--0-1051763016-1031874793=:3397--


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0636.e678baa8a0acb4e6b95c11f37d7541b0.eml000066400000000000000000000077361444326627400313450ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep 13 20:45:04 2002
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When we were discussing Kuhn, I wrote:


> My understanding of the history of
> plate tectonics is that the magnetic
> reversal patterns encoded in seafloor
> basalts were crucial supporting data
> which suddenly became available only
> after Navy declassification, so the
> adoption curve may be skewed.

Many of the essays in Oreskes' _Plate
Tectonics_ seem to support this idea:

Sandwell, "Plate Tectonics: A Martian View"
> In this essay, I'll describe a few of the important confirmations of
> plate tectonic theory provided by satellites and ships.  These tools
> were largely developed to support the Cold War effort, and many are
> labeled geodetic since they are used to make precise measurements
> of the size and shape of the earth and the spatial variations in the
> pull of gravity.  The tools of satellite geodesy are needed for all
> aspects of global warfare; precise satellite tracking and gravity
> field development are needed for precision satellite surveillance
> as well as for targeting ballistic missiles; the global positioning
> system is used in all aspects of modern warfare; radar altimetery is
> used or aiming submarine-launched ballistic missiles as well as for
> inertial navigation when submerged.
> 
> The global seismic networks were developed, primarily, to monitor
> underground nuclear tests.  Marine magnetometers were developed,
> primarily, for detection of submarines.  Multibeam sea floor mapping
> systems were developed, primarily, for surveying critical and
> operational areas of the northern oceans.

... and the Navy was in no hurry
to declassify any of these data,
as any uneven coverage could have
revealed the parts of the oceans
they found most interesting.

-Dave

(What do our seismic networks say
about the middle east?  I hazily
recall a story about LA reporters
asking their local geophysicists
about an early morning quake, to
be told that, as far as could be
figured, the "epicenter" was at a
negative depth, travelling near
mach speed, and presumably headed
towards Edwards)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0637.2eadb44dff5eb5df1615ff5e826bc69e.eml000066400000000000000000000055331444326627400316040ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep 13 20:45:05 2002
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> I think keeping the number of middle letters consistent with the correct
> spelling is important.

Aeftr tinryg it out on my lacol daciinorty,
the worst I cloud find were teilprs, and of
tehm the most cfinnosug seeemd to be:

	parental paternal prenatal 

as cenotxt wloud be mcuh more sacfgiiinnt
with the rest, scuh as:

	bakers beakers breaks

98% of the 45k wdors were uinque.

-Dave

1. romaji, or european languages which
tend to end in vowels, would presumably
work better with attention on the ending
syllable (or at least consonant sound)

2. are typos a larger or smaller space?
I had a whoromatic proggy that scattered
transpositions at hazard where the hands
alternated quickly; that would be a much
smaller space -- but transposing/eliding
spaces might make for a much larger one.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0638.70122b70a334560fdbc450b6516bf752.eml000066400000000000000000000112651444326627400307440ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep 13 20:45:07 2002
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Subject: Re: The Big Jump
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The USAF had a program in the 1959-1960 in which successful free jumps 
were made from balloons at up to ~32 km (100,000 ft.). The relevance was 
astronauts and SR-71 bailouts. This would top that achievement 
comfortably.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/postwwii/pe.htm

Chuck

On Monday, September 9, 2002, at 11:20 AM, Owen Byrne wrote:

> John Hall wrote:
>
>> Why so fast?  Normal terminal velocity is much slower.
>>
> Not at 40,000 m. I found this article 
> (http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,53928,00.html) :
>
> "The last person to try to break the highest free fall record died in 
> the attempt. In 1965, New Jersey truck driver Nick Piantanida suffered 
> catastrophic equipment failure when his facemask blew out at 57,000 
> feet. Lack of oxygen caused such severe brain damage that he went into 
> a coma and died four months later."
>
> And in amongst the flash at
> http://www.legrandsaut.org/site_en/
>
> you can discover that he will break the sound barrier at 35,000 m,
> presumably reaching top speed somewhere above 30,000.
>
> Owen
>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
>>> bitbitch@magnesium.net
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 8:36 AM
>>> To: (Robert Harley)
>>> Cc: fork@example.com
>>> Subject: Re: The Big Jump
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So uh, would this qualify for the Darwin awards if he doesn't make it?
>>>
>>> Freaking french people...
>>>   :-)
>>> -BB
>>> RH> Today a French officer called Michel Fournier is supposed to get
>>>
>> in a
>>
>>> RH> 350-metre tall helium balloon, ride it up to the edge of space (40
>>>
>> km
>>
>>> RH> altitude) and jump out.  His fall should last 6.5 minutes and
>>>
>> reach
>>
>>> RH> speeds of Mach 1.5.  He hopes to open his parachute manually at
>>>
>> the
>>
>>> RH> end, although with an automatic backup if he is 7 seconds from the
>>> RH> ground and still hasn't opened it.
>>>
>>> RH> R
>>>
>>> RH> ObQuote:
>>> RH>   "Veder�, si aver� si grossi li coglioni, come ha il re di
>>>
>> Franza."
>>
>>> RH>   ("Let's see if I've got as much balls as the King of France!")
>>> RH>   - Pope Julius II, 2 January 1511
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>> bitbitch                            mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0639.3462e01cf21a5b919a58b6e70e96ccb4.eml000066400000000000000000000053361444326627400312100ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep 14 16:17:02 2002
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As I've had to resubscribe to fork and fork-noarchive,
I guess I have to reintroduce myself.  I'm formerly
known as gbolcer at endtech dot com to the FoRK
mailman program, formerly an overposter, and love
soaking up bits through avid reading or scanning
of almost every single list that's got informative to say. 

Hopefully all those overpost will get cleared out at
somepoint and fork-archived.   

Greg


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Subject: Slaughter in the Name of God
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An old Indian friend forwarded this to me a while ago.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A58173-2002Mar7¬Found=true

Slaughter in the Name of God
By Salman Rushdie
Friday, March 8, 2002; Page A33 Washington Post

The defining image of the week, for me, is of a small child's burned and 
blackened arm, its tiny fingers curled into a fist, protruding from the 
remains of a human bonfire in Ahmadabad, Gujarat, in India. The murder 
of children is something of an Indian specialty. The routine daily 
killings of unwanted girl babies . . . the massacre of innocents in 
Nellie, Assam, in the 1980s when village turned against neighboring 
village . . . the massacre of Sikh children in Delhi during the 
horrifying reprisal murders that followed Indira Gandhi's assassination: 
They bear witness to our particular gift, always most dazzlingly in 
evidence at times of religious unrest, for dousing our children in 
kerosene and setting them alight, or cutting their throats, or 
smothering them or just clubbing them to death with a good strong length 
of wood.

I say "our" because I write as an Indian man, born and bred, who loves 
India deeply and knows that what one of us does today, any of us is 
potentially capable of doing tomorrow. If I take pride in India's 
strengths, then India's sins must be mine as well. Do I sound angry? 
Good. Ashamed and disgusted? I certainly hope so. Because, as India 
undergoes its worst bout of Hindu-Muslim bloodletting in more than a 
decade, many people have not been sounding anything like angry, ashamed 
or disgusted enough. Police chiefs have been excusing their men's 
unwillingness to defend the citizens of India, without regard to 
religion, by saying that these men have feelings too and are subject to 
the same sentiments as the nation in general.

Meanwhile, India's political masters have been tut-tutting and offering 
the usual soothing lies about the situation being brought under control. 
(It has escaped nobody's notice that the ruling party, the Bharatiya 
Janata Party (BJP), or Indian People's Party, and the Hindu extremists 
of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), or World Hindu Council, are sister 
organizations and offshoots of the same parent body.) Even some 
international commentators, such as Britain's Independent newspaper, 
urge us to "beware excess pessimism."

The horrible truth about communal slaughter in India is that we're used 
to it. It happens every so often; then it dies down. That's how life is, 
folks. Most of the time India is the world's largest secular democracy; 
and if, once in a while, it lets off a little crazy religious steam, we 
mustn't let that distort the picture.

Of course, there are political explanations. Ever since December 1992, 
when a VHP mob demolished a 400-year-old Muslim mosque in Ayodhya, which 
they claim was built on the sacred birthplace of the god Ram, Hindu 
fanatics have been looking for this fight. The pity of it is that some 
Muslims were ready to give it to them. Their murderous attack on the 
train-load of VHP activists at Godhra (with its awful, atavistic echoes 
of the killings of Hindus and Muslims by the train-load during the 
partition riots of 1947) played right into the Hindu extremists' hands.

The VHP has evidently tired of what it sees as the equivocations and 
insufficient radicalism of India's BJP government. Prime Minister Atal 
Bihari Vajpayee is more moderate than his party; he also heads a 
coalition government and has been obliged to abandon much of the BJP's 
more extreme Hindu nationalist rhetoric to hold the coalition together. 
But it isn't working anymore. In state elections across the country, the 
BJP is being trounced. This may have been the last straw for the VHP 
firebrands. Why put up with the government's betrayal of their fascistic 
agenda when that betrayal doesn't even result in electoral success?

The electoral failure of the BJP is thus, in all probability, the spark 
that lit the fire. The VHP is determined to build a Hindu temple on the 
site of the demolished Ayodhya mosque -- that's where the Godhra dead 
were coming from -- and there are, reprehensibly, idiotically, 
tragically, Muslims in India equally determined to resist them. Vajpayee 
has insisted that the slow Indian courts must decide the rights and 
wrongs of the Ayodhya issue. The VHP is no longer prepared to wait.

The distinguished Indian writer Mahasveta Devi, in a letter to India's 
president, K. R. Narayanan, blames the Gujarat government (led by a BJP 
hard-liner) as well as the central government for doing "too little too 
late." She pins the blame firmly on the "motivated, well-planned out and 
provocative actions" of the Hindu nationalists. But another writer, the 
Nobel laureate V. S. Naipaul, speaking in India just a week before the 
violence erupted, denounced India's Muslims en masse and praised the 
nationalist movement.

The murderers of Godhra must indeed be denounced, and Mahasveta Devi in 
her letter demands "stern legal action" against them. But the VHP is 
determined to destroy that secular democracy in which India takes such 
public pride and which it does so little to protect; and by supporting 
them, Naipaul makes himself a fellow traveler of fascism and disgraces 
the Nobel award.

The political discourse matters, and explains a good deal. But there's 
something beneath it, something we don't want to look in the face: 
namely, that in India, as elsewhere in our darkening world, religion is 
the poison in the blood. Where religion intervenes, mere innocence is no 
excuse. Yet we go on skating around this issue, speaking of religion in 
the fashionable language of "respect." What is there to respect in any 
of this, or in any of the crimes now being committed almost daily around 
the world in religion's dreaded name? How well, with what fatal results, 
religion erects totems, and how willing we are to kill for them! And 
when we've done it often enough, the deadening of affect that results 
makes it easier to do it again.

So India's problem turns out to be the world's problem. What happened in 
India has happened in God's name. The problem's name is God.

Salman Rushdie is a novelist and author of the forthcoming essay 
collection "Step Across This Line."

� 2002 The Washington Post Company


sdw

-- 
sdw@lig.net http://sdw.st
Stephen D. Williams 43392 Wayside Cir,Ashburn,VA 20147-4622
703-724-0118W 703-995-0407Fax Dec2001




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Subject: RE: Slaughter in the Name of God
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What I understood was that the activists on the train refused to pay for
the food and other items they acquired from the Muslim vendors -- then
taunted them.

That may not be true, but it would put things in a more interesting
light.  Taking food from a small vendor in India and not paying them is
trying to starve them.

It sounded consistent with the ideas and purpose of the train full of
activists.

I'm rarely an apologist for Muslims anywhere.  Yet I find my sympathies
with the Muslims in this case, even after they burned the train.


> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
> Stephen D. Williams

> The pity of it is that some
> Muslims were ready to give it to them. Their murderous attack on the
> train-load of VHP activists at Godhra (with its awful, atavistic
echoes
> of the killings of Hindus and Muslims by the train-load during the
> partition riots of 1947) played right into the Hindu extremists'
hands.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0642.297a1718a1180f8419c4e4232d4c30b5.eml000066400000000000000000000040051444326627400306630ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 16 15:33:28 2002
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The usual crud.  Why do morons ranting and beating their chests in the
National Review (or similar rags) merit FoRKing?


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Subject: RE: Slaughter in the Name of God
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First, it was my understanding that they had the food before they
refused to pay.  I often have the goods in my possession before I settle
the paycheck.

Second, 'not being paid for a little food' is an awfully big deal in
India.  It isn't far from stealing the only food my children have so
I'll have to watch them starve.  The margin of survival is very, very,
thin.

So yes.  In my particular reality distortion field 'not paying for a
little food' in India is akin to a direct act of violence intended to
cause suffering if not death on the victims family.  That such an act
triggers a violent response is, IMHO, hardly surprising.

In other words, as far as I could tell the people on the train fired the
first shot.

With all of that said I still don't know if this happened or not.  Nor
do I know for sure that the margin of survival for those Muslim vendors
was that thin.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen D. Williams [mailto:swilliams@hpti.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 11:54 AM
> To: johnhall@evergo.net
> Cc: fork@example.com; lea@lig.net
> Subject: Re: Slaughter in the Name of God
> 
> Wow!  It seems you are evaluating this with a large reality distortion
> field.
> 
> If the activists on the train refused to pay for food, then the
vendors
> shouldn't give it to them.  And the local police force should be
> arresting them.  Etc.
> 
> You have to be operating from a particularly primitive point of view,
> which obviously was in operation with the participants here, to think
> that religious differences or not being paid for a little food (or
> taunting!) was even a remote justification for burning a train full of
> people alive.
> 
> sdw
> 
> John Hall wrote:
> > What I understood was that the activists on the train refused to pay
for
> > the food and other items they acquired from the Muslim vendors --
then
> > taunted them.
> >
> > That may not be true, but it would put things in a more interesting
> > light.  Taking food from a small vendor in India and not paying them
is
> > trying to starve them.
> >
> > It sounded consistent with the ideas and purpose of the train full
of
> > activists.
> >
> > I'm rarely an apologist for Muslims anywhere.  Yet I find my
sympathies
> > with the Muslims in this case, even after they burned the train.
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
> >>Stephen D. Williams
> >
> >
> >>The pity of it is that some
> >>Muslims were ready to give it to them. Their murderous attack on the
> >>train-load of VHP activists at Godhra (with its awful, atavistic
> >
> > echoes
> >
> >>of the killings of Hindus and Muslims by the train-load during the
> >>partition riots of 1947) played right into the Hindu extremists'
> >
> > hands.
> 
> sdw
> --
> swilliams@hpti.com http://www.hpti.com
> Stephen D. Williams, Senior Technical Director
> 
> 



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0644.465fabd80d5659bce12a75942fc62c06.eml000066400000000000000000000101421444326627400312010ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 17 11:29:50 2002
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On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Stephen D. Williams wrote:

> It's efficient-end, not low end.  At 1Million hour MTBF, 133MB/sec,
> and pretty good buffering and speed, the only thing going for SCSI is
> 15,000 RPM vs. 7200 and in a very small number of cases, slightly
> better scatter-gather.  (Actually, I think there might be a 15,000 RPM
> IDE now.)

It's not just krpm, the desktop HDs have a higher failure rate. But I
agree, EIDE has high density, and EIDE hardware RAID can offer SCSI a
sound beating for reliability, performance, and storage density/rack units
for the money, if designed for it, and if people would actually start 
buying it.
 
> The other issues are pretty much non-issues: using multiple drives and
> controller contention (just use many IDE channels with extra PCI
> cards, up to 10 in some systems), and long cable runs (just split

There are not all that many hard drives inside an 1U enclosure. Airflow
blockage (you have to fit in 2-3x the number of SCSI disks with EIDE) will
soon be a thing of the past due to SATA.

> storage between nodes).  Dual-port SCSI is also a non-issue since it
> is very expensive, doesn't work that well in practice because there
> are numerous secondary failure modes for shared disk systems, and
> because you still end up with a single point of failure.

Since rack-space costs dominate, and our systems need more or less decent
I/O we're going with 1U Dells with SCSI. The hard drive prices don't
really make a visible difference, given the cost of the iron, and the
rackspace/month. Plus, 1U Dells don't have any space left for lots of EIDE
drives.


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From: "Geege Schuman" 
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the doctor wears many hats, including but not limited to a rubber skullcap
for playing water polo, a beret for making sparkling wines, and an oversized
fedora to deflect his own cigar smoke, which he regularly blows up my ...


geege

-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of Jim
Whitehead
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 2:08 PM
To: FoRK
Subject: RE: introductions


> Aren't you Dr. Gregory A. Bolcer, Dutch Uncle of P2P?

I thought he was Greg Bolcer, recovering XPilot & Doom junkie...

- Jim





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> From: Stephen D. Williams [mailto:swilliams@hpti.com]

> 
> Just to further weaken the food transaction argument, I'll note that
in
> my neighborhood, the local McDonalds won't even hand you your drink in
> the drive through until you fork over the cash.  


Maybe you never bought a hot dog from a street vendor.

> And why is it that the margin of survival is so thin?  Could it be
that
> all of these tribal rivalries are part of what's holding back
wholesale
> movement to the modern, first world patterns of constructive thinking?

Well, yes.  But it doesn't change the idea that the margin of survival
probably IS that thin in this region.

> I'm sure that both sides were ready to be the agressor.  

I'm not.  I'm sure both sides were equally ready to be the aggressor
provided they were in a predominant position of power.

> Bush's reluctance to blast blind obeyance of religion as taught by
your
> local madrassa or KKK leader, apparently because he is fully involved
> with the general effort to expand unfettered religiosity as the
solution
> to the world's ills, is disappointing.  He has spoke against madrassa,
> but what I heard sounded lame and carefully crafted to shield religion
> in general from scrutiny.

1. Which religion and how it is currently being expressed matters.
2. The US is trying to avoid making war on the Muslim religion.
3. US Leadership remains reflexively multi-cultural.

> We all have
> disagreements, but at some point it becomes a crime against humanity.

I didn't say burning the train was a good thing.  I said I understood it
wasn't a spontaneous attack on people who had done no wrong.






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John Hall wrote:

>>From: Stephen D. Williams [mailto:swilliams@hpti.com]
>>    
>>
>>Bush's reluctance to blast blind obeyance of religion as taught by
>>
>your
>  
>
>>local madrassa or KKK leader, apparently because he is fully involved
>>with the general effort to expand unfettered religiosity as the
>>    
>>
>solution 
>
>>to the world's ills, is disappointing.  He has spoke against madrassa,
>>but what I heard sounded lame and carefully crafted to shield religion
>>in general from scrutiny.
>>    
>>
>
>1. Which religion and how it is currently being expressed matters.
>
A)  Which religion is it that can claim no foul actions in its past? 
 Certainly not Christianity, Islam, etc.
B) "How it is currently being expressed" amounts to a tacit 
acknowledgement that the sophistication of the society involved and 
people's self-limiting reasonableness are important to avoid primitive 
expression.  This leads to the point that religion and less 
sophisticated societies are a dangerous mix.  It also tends to invoke 
the image of extremes that might occur without diligent maintenance of 
society.
C) Many splinter Christianity religions have 'clean hands' but they also 
aren't 'found in the wild'.

(By "primitive expression", I don't mean to slight any society, but that 
there is some chronic evidence of irrational mob actions and uncivilized 
behavior (killing infants, women to break religious blue laws, etc.). 
 The US has only really been mostly free of "primitive expression" for 
40-50 years, although large categories, including serious religious 
conflict, were settled quite a while ago.)

D) The Northern Ireland Protestant vs. Catholic feud, recently more or 
less concluded, is not completely unlike this kind of friction generated 
by splitting society too much along religious lines.  One Post article 
pointed out that the problem basically stemmed from the vertical 
integration of areas along religious lines all the way to schools, 
government, political party, etc.  (Of course both cases have a heritage 
of British conquest, but who doesn't?)

(I couldn't find the article I remember, but here are a couple of others:)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A33761-2001Jul8¬Found=true
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A15956-2002Jul16¬Found=true

'Northern Ireland is a British province of green valleys and 
cloud-covered hills whose 1.6 million people are politically and 
religiously divided. About 54 percent of the population is Protestant, 
and most Protestants are unionists who want the province to remain part 
of Britain. The Roman Catholic minority is predominantly republican, or 
nationalist; they want to merge with the Republic of Ireland to the south.


In 1968, Catholic leaders launched a civil rights drive modeled on the 
Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s campaign in the American South. But 
violence quickly broke out, with ancient religious animosities fueling 
the political argument. Armed paramilitary groups sprung up on both 
sides. Police records and historians agree that the most lethal group by 
far was the IRA, fighting on the Catholic side with a goal of a united 
Ireland

The provincial police force estimates that about 3,600 people were 
killed during the 30-year conflict known, with characteristic Northern 
Ireland understatement, as "The Troubles."'

>2. The US is trying to avoid making war on the Muslim religion.
>
That's fine, as it would be an inappropriate concentration.  It would be 
difficult to address the issues raised here in a clean way.  I'd be 
happy with an acknowledgement that the connection is there.

>3. US Leadership remains reflexively multi-cultural.
>
This is ok to a point, as long as it doesn't shy away from logical, 
objective analysis of when a society could be seriously improved in 
certain ways.

>>We all have
>>disagreements, but at some point it becomes a crime against humanity.
>>    
>>
>
>I didn't say burning the train was a good thing.  I said I understood it
>wasn't a spontaneous attack on people who had done no wrong.
>

True, although I don't think you were as clear originally.  :-)

sdw



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Subject: RE: Slaughter in the Name of God
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> From: Stephen D. Williams [mailto:sdw@lig.net]
> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 7:42 PM

> >1. Which religion and how it is currently being expressed matters.
> >
> A)  Which religion is it that can claim no foul actions in its past?
>  Certainly not Christianity, Islam, etc.

Hence the qualifier 'current'.

> B) "How it is currently being expressed" amounts to a tacit
> acknowledgement that the sophistication of the society involved and
> people's self-limiting reasonableness are important to avoid primitive
> expression.  This leads to the point that religion and less
> sophisticated societies are a dangerous mix.  It also tends to invoke
> the image of extremes that might occur without diligent maintenance of
> society.

The tacit acknowledgement and self-limiting you speak of is not a given
or a function of 'sophistication' but is primarily a feature of
(current) Western Civilization.  Of course, 'sophisticated' and 'Western
Civilization' are essentially equivalent IMHO.  But it need not be so.

> D) The Northern Ireland Protestant vs. Catholic feud, recently more or
> less concluded, is not completely unlike this kind of friction
generated
> by splitting society too much along religious lines.  One Post article
> pointed out that the problem basically stemmed from the vertical
> integration of areas along religious lines all the way to schools,
> government, political party, etc.  (Of course both cases have a
heritage
> of British conquest, but who doesn't?)

And sometimes the religious component is a fa�ade for an equally
dangerous ethnic affiliation.  Hindu extremism isn't about the Hindu
religious theology as far as I can see.  It is a peg to hang an ethnic
identity and identity politics on.

Muslim extremism appears to have a far greater connection to theology.

> 'Northern Ireland is a British province of green valleys and
> cloud-covered hills whose 1.6 million people are politically and
> religiously divided. About 54 percent of the population is Protestant,
> and most Protestants are unionists who want the province to remain
part
> of Britain. The Roman Catholic minority is predominantly republican,
or
> nationalist; they want to merge with the Republic of Ireland to the
south.

Yep, all because the Scots ate oats and starved their Irish out long
ago, while the English preferred wheat and that doesn't grow so well in
Ireland.  That and the introduction of potatoes saved the Irish as
Irish.

> That's fine, as it would be an inappropriate concentration.  It would
be
> difficult to address the issues raised here in a clean way.  I'd be
> happy with an acknowledgement that the connection is there.

Oh, I think we are in a war with wide aspects of the Muslim religion.  I
know it is there, but it just might not be appropriate to admit it
publicly.

> >3. US Leadership remains reflexively multi-cultural.
> >
> This is ok to a point, as long as it doesn't shy away from logical,
> objective analysis of when a society could be seriously improved in
> certain ways.

I didn't say this was a *good* thing.  With the exception of ethnic
restaurants, I can generally be counted on to oppose anything labeled
'multi-cultural'.

> >I didn't say burning the train was a good thing.  I said I understood
it
> >wasn't a spontaneous attack on people who had done no wrong.
> >
> 
> True, although I don't think you were as clear originally.  :-)

I'm sure I wasn't.



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0649.60e2fd87157b13643293adc15ff03dd5.eml000066400000000000000000000116651444326627400311330ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 17 11:30:07 2002
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Subject:  The War Prayer
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--- begin forwarded text


Status: RO
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:57:27 -0700
To: nettime-l@bbs.thing.net
From: Phil Duncan 
Subject:  The War Prayer
Sender: nettime-l-request@bbs.thing.net
Reply-To: Phil Duncan 

The following prayer is from a story by Mark Twain, and was quoted by Lewis
Laphan in the October issue of Harper's magazine. It occurs at the very end
of an excellent article which I recommend to you.

In the story, an old man enters a church where the congregation has been
listening to an heroic sermon about "the glory to be won in battle by young
patriots armed with the love of God." He usurps the pulpit and prays the
following:

"O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreads with our
shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their
patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of
their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with
a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows
with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with their little
children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and
hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames in summer and the icy winds of
winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of
the grave and denied it -- for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their
hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their
steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood
of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the
Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that
are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen."

Twain wrote the story, "The War Prayer," in 1905 during the American
occupation of the Philippines, but the story wasn't printed until 1923,
thirteen years after his death, because the editors thought it "unsuitable"
for publication at the time it was written.

#  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
#   is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg body
#  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0650.98f5c18e05ccd24028b10fa7317d67e8.eml000066400000000000000000000076761444326627400311420ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 17 11:30:12 2002
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From: Eugen Leitl 
To: "Stephen D. Williams" 
Cc: Gary Lawrence Murphy ,
	Udhay Shankar N , Adam Rifkin ,
	
Subject: Re: storage bits
In-Reply-To: <3D8684B4.7060801@lig.net>
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On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Stephen D. Williams wrote:

> To make what work?  I already pointed out that a single drive is
> comparable between IDE/SCSI.

Alas, that's wrong. Both the drives are faster (10..15 krpm vs. ~7 krpm,
faster seek), and the EIDE protocol is ridiculously dumb (queing;
disconnect).
 
> I think you're wrong with recent releases.  I'll check this week. 
> There's also JFS and XFS.

None of them are production quality. Right now only ext2 and ext3 qualify.  
It will take a good while (a year, or two) before we can trust anything
else.
 
> >SCSI has got advantages still, particular if it comes to off-shelf 
> >high-density racks.
> >
> Check out RaidZone.com.

Have you looked inside a dual-CPU 1U Dell? Three drives are easy to get 
in. Anything else would require a redesign, and would in nontrivial 
thermal engineering issues.
 
> A number of vendors are putting the Promise IDE hardware on the
> motherboard.  All that remains is the proper drive socket.

I can't think of a single major vendor who sells 1U systems with hardware
EIDE RAID.

> Additionally, you can get hardware IDE raid as a pair of drive bays or
> even an IDE-IDEx2 controller that can be screwed into a 1U chassis.

I believe you that stuff can be found, if one is looking for it. However, 
I wouldn't put this into production unless I've had that system hanging in 
the local rack under simulated load for a half a year.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0651.28519f3986ee75e6f2ccb5e51995a875.eml000066400000000000000000000070361444326627400311110ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 17 15:09:10 2002
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From: Gregory Alan Bolcer 
Subject: Re: introductions
To: Geege Schuman 
Cc: FoRK 
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I'd like to claim the parenthood of desktop web services,
but then there's a ton of people doing it now.  

What I am the parent of is, Jackson Alan Bolcer--I just
realized that the birth announcement was something that
didn't get sent through due to my general laziness of
being kicked off of FoRK from our stupid DNS fiasco
mixed with the post filtering.   August 20th, 7lbs, 14oz,
8:30pm.  

Greg



Geege Schuman wrote:
> 
> Aren't you Dr. Gregory A. Bolcer, Dutch Uncle of P2P?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of
> Gregory Alan Bolcer
> Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 10:21 AM
> To: FoRK
> Subject: introductions
> 
> As I've had to resubscribe to fork and fork-noarchive,
> I guess I have to reintroduce myself.  I'm formerly
> known as gbolcer at endtech dot com to the FoRK
> mailman program, formerly an overposter, and love
> soaking up bits through avid reading or scanning
> of almost every single list that's got informative to say.
> 
> Hopefully all those overpost will get cleared out at
> somepoint and fork-archived.
> 
> Greg


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0652.5ed46908836bacba742b337197ce3499.eml000066400000000000000000000215331444326627400310630ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 17 15:09:19 2002
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From: Gregory Alan Bolcer 
Subject: Re: RSA (repost)
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"Adam L. Beberg" wrote:
> 
> So, who has done RSA implementation before?
> Having a typo-I-cant-spot problem with my CRT...
> 
> - Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
>   http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
>   beberg@mithral.com
> 
> http://xent.com/mailman/listinfo/fork

Done a ton of them, both with and without their
stuff.  With is definitely easier.[1]

Greg

[1] http://www.endeavors.com/PressReleases/rsa.htm





 Endeavors Technology and RSA Security Form Strategic Partnership to 
 Enhance SSL Performance in Secure, Enterprise-Scalable P2P Computing

Endeavors Technology and RSA Security combine their respective peer-to-peer Magi Enterprise 
Web collaboration and RSA BSAFE� software for SSL users to instantly extend security and improve performance
of 
desktop and corporate data sharing, and Web interaction between workgroups inside and across corporations.

Irvine (CA) and Cambridge (UK), September 12, 2002 - Secure web collaboration software leader Endeavors
Technology, Inc. today
announced a technology sharing and marketing agreement with RSA Security Inc. the most trusted name in
e-security.� This strategic
partnership is aimed at extending the security and improving the performance of the standard SSL security
protocol used by every e-based
desktop, laptop and server. 

Under the terms of the agreement, RSA Security's trusted security tools are embedded into Endeavors
Technology's award-winning Magi
Enterprise software product. The combined solution enables IT managers and users to simply extend security and
encryption to every
Magi-enabled device for the direct device-to-device sharing and interaction of corporate data and workflow
between workgroups within and
beyond the enterprise.

Secure collaboration between desktops and corporate systems calls for enterprises to build complex and costly
network infrastructures. This
combination of technologies from the two companies eliminates both overheads, and also the need for specific
security tools for each desktop
application such as Microsoft Project. With Magi's secure RSA Security-based peer environment, collaboration
can now be rapidly, easily and
securely extended across all devices and company firewalls, and workgroups can interact with colleagues,
partners and clients without concern
in compromising corporate information. This brings true Internet scaling to corporations needing to interact
highly securely with strong
encryption and authentication across firewalls.

"In these challenging times, there can be no compromise in safeguarding corporate data and knowledge," says
Bernard Hulme, chairman and
CEO of Endeavors Technology. "Embedding RSA Security encryption software into Magi products provides IT
managers with added
assurance, speed and cost savings, and a proven security net to accelerate the deployment of business-centric
peer-to-peer computing"

Endeavors Technology joins the RSA Secured� Partner Program. The program is designed to ensure complete
interoperability between
partner products and RSA Security's solutions including RSA SecurID� two-factor authentication, RSA
ClearTrust� Web access
management, RSA BSAFE� encryption and RSA Keon� digital certificate management.

The strategic partnership paves the way for Magi Enterprise to bear the RSA Secured brand on product packaging
and advertising, be listed in
RSA Secured Partner Solutions directories, and have RSA Security's out-of-the-box, certified interoperability.
It will also lead to joint
marketing and promotional activities between the two firms, mutual field sales engagement opportunities on
joint accounts, and 24x7 worldwide
business continuity support.

"Endeavors Technology is taking a leadership role by providing the highest-level of security in its enterprise
products and streamlining the
deployment process for IT managers," says Stuart Cohen, director of partner development at RSA Security. "By
combining our products,
enterprise customers have a solution that provides encryption and authentication across firewalls."

About Magi
Magi Enterprise 3.0, an award-winning web collaboration system, transforms today's Web into a highly secure
inter- and intra-enterprise
collaboration network. For the first time, enterprises can implement ad-hoc Virtual Private Networks for
collaboration very rapidly and
affordably without disrupting existing applications, networks or work practices. Magi Enterprise 3.0 does this
by effectively transforming
unsecured, "read-only" Web networks into two-way trusted and transparent collaboration environments, through
the use of such features as
cross-firewall connections, advanced data extraction, an intuitive graphical interface, and universal name
spaces generating "follow me URLs"
for mobile professionals.

About RSA Security, Inc.
RSA Security Inc., the most trusted name in e-security, helps organizations build secure, trusted foundations
for e-business through its RSA
SecurID two-factor authentication, RSA ClearTrust Web access management, RSA BSAFE encryption and RSA Keon
digital certificate
management product families. With approximately one billion RSA BSAFE-enabled applications in use worldwide,
more than ten million RSA
SecurID authentication users and almost 20 years of industry experience, RSA Security has the proven
leadership and innovative technology to
address the changing security needs of e-business and bring trust to the online economy. RSA Security can be
reached at
www.rsasecurity.com.

About Endeavors Technology, Inc.
Endeavors Technology, Inc. is a wholly-owned subsidiary of mobile computing and network infrastructure vendor
Tadpole Technology plc
(www.tadpole.com), which has plants and offices in Irvine and Carlsbad (California), and Cambridge, Edinburgh,
and Bristol (UK). For further
information on Endeavors' P2P solutions, call 949-833-2800, email to p2p@endeavors.com, or visit the company's
website
www.endeavors.com. 


Copyright 2002 Endeavors Technology, Inc. Magi, and Magi Enterprise are registered trademarks of Endeavors
Technology, Inc. RSA, BSAFE, ClearTrust, Keon, SecurID, RSA Secured and The Most
Trusted Name in e-Security are registered trademarks or trademarks of RSA Security Inc. in the United States
and/or other countries. All other products and services mentioned are trademarks of their
respective companies. 



           � 2002 Endeavors Technology, Inc., 19600 Fairchild, Suite 350, Irvine, CA 92612, phone
949-833-2800, fax 949-833-2881, email info@endeavors.com.
                           All rights reserved; specifications and descriptions subject to change without
notice.


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http://spineless.org/~mod/pix/octoberMoon.jpg
-- 
#ken	P-)}

Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini  http://Golux.Com/coar/
Author, developer, opinionist      http://Apache-Server.Com/

"Millennium hand and shrimp!"


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0654.e2ac2ca047fa228203d83f0f094cc529.eml000066400000000000000000000147721444326627400311750ustar00rootroot00000000000000Replied: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 17:50:28 +0100
Replied: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
Replied: "Stephen D. Williams" 
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To: "Stephen D. Williams" 
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Subject: Re: Slaughter in the Name of God
References: <004601c25dc9$67a436a0$0200a8c0@JMHALL> <3D869694.1060906@lig.net>
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>>>>> "S" == Stephen D Williams  writes:

    S> A) Which religion is it that can claim no foul actions in its
    S> past?  Certainly not Christianity, Islam, etc.

Rastafari.

That is, if you concede that of the two founding branches, only the
one founded by the Nyabingi were legit and the others were
thinly-veneered anti-colonial hooligans.  

There is also Vietnamese Buddhism, unless you count setting fire to
oneself as a "foul action".

    S> C) Many splinter Christianity religions have 'clean hands' but
    S> they also aren't 'found in the wild'.

You'd have to explain "found in the wild".  For example, I know of
no violence perpetrated by the South Pacific "Cargo Cults" outside
of a pretty darn /mean/ game of cricket.

    S> D) The Northern Ireland Protestant vs. Catholic feud, recently
    S> more or less concluded, is not completely unlike this kind of
    S> friction generated by splitting society too much along
    S> religious lines.  One Post article pointed out that the problem
    S> basically stemmed from the vertical integration of areas along
    S> religious lines all the way to schools, government, political
    S> party, etc.  (Of course both cases have a heritage of British
    S> conquest, but who doesn't?)

When we launched the Native Net in 1989, one of the first things we
noticed on networking aboriginal groups around the world is that the
British Army, with the US Army as a proxy by extension, were the
common thread.  Where neither was present (physically or through
influence) there /tended/ to be less violence.

The issue in Ireland is complex, but rest assured that religious
aspects are only a co-incidence of the invader/colonials being
predominantly members of the Royal-headed Anglicans and the aboriginal
population being predominantly members of the Pope-headed Catholics.
The conflict itself has nothing to do with ideology or practice, since
the Anglican Church is a near-identical clone of Catholicism.

(now I bet that's going to attract some healthy debate ;)

    S> .. most Protestants are unionists who want the
    S> province to remain part of Britain.

Mebst. Mebst.  It's the other way around.  Most Unionists are protestants.
It's their _Unionism_ that is the source of the conflict, not their
sacriments.

    S> ... Police records and historians agree that the most lethal
    S> group by far was the IRA, fighting on the Catholic side with a
    S> goal of a united Ireland

And which side of the colonial fence do you suppose the Police and
Historians sit?  If the Russians had invaded the USA as feared in
episodes such as the Bay of Pigs, would the Americans have organized
to become a "lethal force", or would they have just said, "Oh well,
there goes /that/ democracy!" and settle in under communist rule?

Just wondering.

    >> 2. The US is trying to avoid making war on the Muslim religion.

It is interesting to me that the Canadian media is trying to paint
Chretien as some sort of buffoon for saying that 3rd-world poverty was
a major contributor to 9-11.  If they'd /watch/ his now-infamous
interview, they'd see that it's still us-against-hooligans, but his
point is that the hooligans would not be able to find friendly states
so easily if those states were not so bled-dry by the west.

The same is true of street-gangs: When people are disenfranchised,
it's easier to offer them the Triad as a new family.  You get
cellphones, cars, a dry place to live.  Triad, biker gangs, mafia, the
IRA, Al Queda ... we've been fighting the War on Terrorism for as long
as there's been commerce, so you'd think we'd /realize/ that
escalation of violence is not a solution.

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
  "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0655.62691c84d110fdfa26e8579cd00c1a68.eml000066400000000000000000000121041444326627400311210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 17 17:57:49 2002
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Gary Lawrence Murphy said:
> >>>>> "S" == Stephen D Williams  writes:
>     S> A) Which religion is it that can claim no foul actions in its
>     S> past?  Certainly not Christianity, Islam, etc.
> Rastafari.
> That is, if you concede that of the two founding branches, only the
> one founded by the Nyabingi were legit and the others were
> thinly-veneered anti-colonial hooligans.  
> There is also Vietnamese Buddhism, unless you count setting fire to
> oneself as a "foul action".

What about Tibetan Buddhism BTW?  They seem like an awfully nice bunch
of chaps (and chapesses).

> When we launched the Native Net in 1989, one of the first things we
> noticed on networking aboriginal groups around the world is that the
> British Army, with the US Army as a proxy by extension, were the
> common thread.  Where neither was present (physically or through
> influence) there /tended/ to be less violence.
> 
> The issue in Ireland is complex, but rest assured that religious
> aspects are only a co-incidence of the invader/colonials being
> predominantly members of the Royal-headed Anglicans and the aboriginal
> population being predominantly members of the Pope-headed Catholics.
> The conflict itself has nothing to do with ideology or practice, since
> the Anglican Church is a near-identical clone of Catholicism.
> 
> (now I bet that's going to attract some healthy debate ;)

Man, I'm not going *there* again ;)  I'll agree, though, that the ideology
or practices of the religions have very little to do with the conflict.

> The same is true of street-gangs: When people are disenfranchised,
> it's easier to offer them the Triad as a new family.  You get
> cellphones, cars, a dry place to live.  Triad, biker gangs, mafia, the
> IRA, Al Queda ... we've been fighting the War on Terrorism for as long
> as there's been commerce, so you'd think we'd /realize/ that
> escalation of violence is not a solution.

Well said!

--j.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0656.dd2af7ab5d99adf717056893adb12a20.eml000066400000000000000000000051211444326627400313350ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 17 18:42:38 2002
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Chuck Murcko wrote:
> > The usual crud.  Why do morons ranting and beating their chests in the
> > National Review (or similar rags) merit FoRKing?
> Probably because we have this pesky 1st Amendment thing here.  [...]

It must be so great in the US.  The rest of us live in caves and have
no such thing as free speech.
 
BTW, I wasn't aware that the 1st Amendment mandated that crap must be FoRKed.


> You can just ignore it if you wish.

I will, thanks.


> But I must feel obligated to defend to the death your right to do so.

�Je d�sapprouve ce que vous dites, mais je d�fendrai jusqu'� ma mort votre
droit de le dire�
- Arouet Le Jeune, dit �Voltaire� (1694-1778).


R


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On Tue, 2002-09-17 at 12:50, Justin Mason wrote:
> What about Tibetan Buddhism BTW?  They seem like an awfully nice bunch
> of chaps (and chapesses).

They were the ruling class of a feudal, farming society for quite some
time; I believe there were more than a few issues there. Certainly, not
everyone in Tibet is as excited about the Dalai Lama as Hollywood
appears to be. [Not that the Chinese are much better rights-wise, but
they've actually built roads and such, which led to the creation of
merchant classes and the like that never existed under the Tibetans.]

Luis


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I have been told to take anything read in Pravda with a grain of salt...
but
this article certainly looks impressive when paired together with this other
one from the associated press...

Just the concept makes me shudder, imagining how easy it must be to smuggle
these things around some parts of Europe right now.

Hopefully, it's just my imagination.

-- Michael Cummins
   Fort Lauderdale, FL

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/09/13/36519.html
11:14 2002-09-13
200 SOVIET NUKES LOST IN UKRAINE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=518&ncid=518&e=51&u=/ap/200
20903/ap_on_re_eu/ukraine_iraq_3
Ukraine-Iraq Arms Deals Alleged
Tue Sep 3, 6:07 PM ET
By TIM VICKERY, Associated Press Writer
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Rohit Khare - I wish you the best of luck in your search.  I found *my* Very
Special Lady when I was intentionally looking elsewhere... you never know
what
lurks around every corner.  Love certainly has its *own* agenda.




---------------------------------------------------------------
Scanned for viruses by the advanced mail servers at advantageservices.net


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On Tue, Sep 17, 2002 at 10:19:13AM -0700, Chuck Murcko wrote:
> Probably because we have this pesky 1st Amendment thing here. Still, 
> lots of us in the States have developed a disturbing tendency to shout 
> down or (in recent years) shackle in legal BS opinions, thoughts, and 
> individual behaviors we don't agree with.
> 

Except that parroting the party line doesn't really require much
freedom of speech. Now if you had posted something from a left of
center source, you would have been shouted down in flames, buried in 
ad hominem attacks, and probably get your name added to an FBI list. 

 
Besides the basic rule in the United States now is "I'll defend your
rights to say anything you want, but if it isn't appropriately
neoconish, well, don't expect to work":


HHS Seeks Science Advice to Match Bush Views

By Rick Weiss
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 17, 2002; Page A01

The Bush administration has begun a broad restructuring of the
scientific advisory committees that guide federal policy in areas such
as patients' rights and public health, eliminating some committees
that were coming to conclusions at odds with the president's views and
in other cases replacing members with handpicked choices. 
...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26554-2002Sep16.html

Owen


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Subject: Re: Slaughter in the Name of God
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From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
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>>>>> "J" == Justin Mason  writes:

    J> What about Tibetan Buddhism BTW?  They seem like an awfully
    J> nice bunch of chaps (and chapesses).

Yes, them too.  When wolves attack their sheep, they coral the wolf
into a quarry and then throw rocks from the surrounding cliffs so
that "no one will know who killed the wolf"

In Samskar, before the Chinese arrived, there had not been a killing
in over 2000 years, and the last recorded skirmish, over rights to
a water hole, had happened several generations ago.

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
  "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0662.edbb54c8f940c4cf54b4a61e930691d7.eml000066400000000000000000000055161444326627400312750ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 17 18:42:36 2002
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Probably because we have this pesky 1st Amendment thing here. Still, 
lots of us in the States have developed a disturbing tendency to shout 
down or (in recent years) shackle in legal BS opinions, thoughts, and 
individual behaviors we don't agree with.

You can just ignore it if you wish. But I must feel obligated to defend 
to the death your right to do so.

Chuck

On Monday, September 16, 2002, at 06:54 AM, Robert Harley wrote:

The usual crud.  Why do morons ranting and beating their chests in the
National Review (or similar rags) merit FoRKing?


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On Tue, 2002-09-17 at 11:16, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:
> >>>>> "J" == Justin Mason  writes:
> 
>     J> What about Tibetan Buddhism BTW?  They seem like an awfully
>     J> nice bunch of chaps (and chapesses).
> 
> Yes, them too.  When wolves attack their sheep, they coral the wolf
> into a quarry and then throw rocks from the surrounding cliffs so
> that "no one will know who killed the wolf"
> 
> In Samskar, before the Chinese arrived, there had not been a killing
> in over 2000 years, and the last recorded skirmish, over rights to
> a water hole, had happened several generations ago.


I'm skeptical.  

One of the many perversions of modern civilization is the fictitious
rendering of various peoples, frequently to the point where the fiction
is more "real" than the reality.  You see it over and over again in
history:  The Primitive People pull a fast one on Whitey The Junior
Anthropologist, playing to all the prejudices of Whitey (who only became
Junior Anthropologists to support personal ideologies), and before you
know it the charade takes on a life of its own which the Primitive
People are compelled to perpetuate.  Worse, even when there is
substantial evidence to the contrary with some basic scholarship, the
facts have a hard time competing with the ideologically pleasing fiction
that is already firmly entrenched.  And many peoples (e.g. American
Indians) develop a profit motive for maintaining and promoting the myth
in popular culture.

I'm far more inclined to believe that people is people, no matter where
you are on the planet.  The only time you see any anomalies is when you
have a self-selecting sub-population within an otherwise normal
population, which is hardly a fair way to look at any major population.

-James Rogers
 jamesr@best.com



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0664.0d4d48964387db0637509ad10ee66763.eml000066400000000000000000000076231444326627400307260ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 17 23:29:46 2002
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> All else being equal, the terminal velocity is inversely proportional to the
> square root of air density. Air density drops off pretty quickly, and I 
> really should be doing something other than digging up the math for that. I
> think it involves calculus to integrate the amount of mass as the column of
> the atmosphere trails off.

Chemistry types have a method for
dealing with this question without
dragging in the calculus:

Suppose an atmosphere to be mainly
affected by gravity, resulting in
the potential energy for a mass M
to be linear in height h: Mgh.

What relative concentrations will
we have when two different packets
of air are in equilibrium?

If they are at the same height, we
will have half the mass in one, and
half the mass in the other, and the
amount flowing from one to the other
balances the amount flowing in the
opposite direction.[0]

If they are at differing heights,
then a greater percentage of the
higher air tends to descend than
that percentage of the lower air
which ascends.  In order for the
two flows to balance, the higher
packet must contain less air than
the lower, and the mass balance
of the flows corresponds thusly:

    high percentage of thin air
    ---------------------------
    low percentage of dense air

Now, rates are exponential in
energy differences[1], so that
theoretically we should expect
an exponential decay in height,
to compensate.  How does it go
in practice?

-Dave

[0] How well does it balance?
    Chemical equilibria seem 
    stable, as they deal with
    very large numbers over a
    very long time.  Economic
    equilibria are viewed from
    the mayfly standpoint of
    individual people, and so,
    at best, the shot noise is
    very visible.

[1] That is to say, rates will
    be exponential in the free
    energy differences between
    endpoints and a transition
    state.  We can ignore that
    complication in this model.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0665.92e4e88458a94d0f02cfa34985127107.eml000066400000000000000000000040121444326627400307140ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: johnhall@evergo.net  Tue Sep 17 23:29:48 2002
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Subject: RE: Slaughter in the Name of God
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 13:31:20 -0700
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> From: yyyy@example.com [mailto:yyyy@example.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 9:50 AM
> > ... we've been fighting the War on Terrorism for as long
> > as there's been commerce, so you'd think we'd /realize/ that
> > escalation of violence is not a solution.
> 
> Well said!
> 
> --j.

Yeah.  It certainly wasn't a solution to the Carthaginian problem or the
Barbary Pirates.  Wait ... no ... actually ... it was a rather permanent
solution.


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----- Original Message -----
From: "Luis Villa" 

>
> They were the ruling class of a feudal, farming society for quite some
> time; I believe there were more than a few issues there. Certainly, not
> everyone in Tibet is as excited about the Dalai Lama as Hollywood
> appears to be. [Not that the Chinese are much better rights-wise, but
> they've actually built roads and such, which led to the creation of
> merchant classes and the like that never existed under the Tibetans.]
And it's not /going/ to exist under the Tibetans, because it'll be owned and
operated by Chinese nationals.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0668.d9eabdd9363513f9740355970eff7ae6.eml000066400000000000000000000055601444326627400312410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 17 23:29:52 2002
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At 12:01 PM -0700 on 9/17/02, James Rogers wrote:


> The Primitive People pull a fast one on Whitey The Junior
> Anthropologist

Or Margaret, in the case of a famous proto-feminist...

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0669.2d5135216a15406b161ca553a4612b2b.eml000066400000000000000000000052131444326627400306440ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 18 11:52:21 2002
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From: CDale 
To: fork@example.com
Subject: boycotting yahoo
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Because of this:
http://hrw.org/press/2002/08/yahoo080902.htm
there are several of us who are in the BDSM lifestyle who are trying to 
encourage our local groups to find alternatives to yahoo groups as a way 
of communicating with each other.  I've set up a place to have maillists 
on my server for any group who wants to use it, but I was wondering if 
anyone knows of an alternative that allows all the bells and whistles that 
yahoo has, such as reminders, file storage, calendars, etc.  Anyone?
TIA,
Cindy

-- 
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0670.4d4f5d10e1bcf26a5438defe1188dc57.eml000066400000000000000000000074431444326627400313510ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 18 11:52:23 2002
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At Fermi (yes I'm back there; long story), we're buying 4U systems like 
the fiscal year is ending.  We have ~20 ASA IR4US1 systems (not pushing 
them, there are some other similar units available), with 60 more on 
order.  They're 2-1/2 TB for $10K, although we add a separate IDE or 
SCSI system disk, because the 3Ware RAID controllers can saturate. 
Intel SDS2 motherboard, 2 1.4GHz P3s, 2 GB ram, 2 3Ware 7850 Raid 
controllers, 16 160GB Maxtors, SysKonnect gigabit enet, Fermi RedHat 7.3.

http://www.asacomputers.com/cgi-bin/index.fcg?action=displayscreen&templateid=25

There's some interesting info at:

http://mit.fnal.gov/~msn/cdf/caf/server_evaluation.html

We've decided to go with XFS (which Linus has just merged into the 2.5 
tree), mostly because none of the other journaled fs's can maintain >30 
GB/s rates with a nearly full filesystem (mostly GB files) with random 
deletions (we use these systems for caching our 2 petabyte tape store). 
  Ext3 almost did it but dropped from from ~38MB/s to 10 with random 
deletions, and didn't want to do direct io at all.  Only concern is an 
occasional system lock-up we haven't chased down yet.  A load avg > 100 
is always a patio of fun.

Oddly, even fairly beefy systems like these will breathe hard to keep up 
with the new STK 9940B tape drives, which crank along at a steady 
30GB/s.  And you oldforktimers will remember "doofus" my old file server 
system.  It would only take 2.1" of rackspace now, instead of 14 racks.

Cheers,
Wayne


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0671.ea82754ba3b836e43d376b32c07b79f0.eml000066400000000000000000000051601444326627400311230ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 18 11:52:25 2002
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Yes, it's nice to be back in America's flaccid state ...

Seems like only yesterday we were suffering electile dysfunction ...

Maybe if they made the ballot ovals look like little blue pills ...

No, seriously ... I'm here all week ... You were great ...
'nite everybody


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0672.a8927156ce344160530dc0e918a42472.eml000066400000000000000000000057641444326627400306270ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 18 11:52:27 2002
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To: CDale 
Cc: fork@example.com
Subject: Re: boycotting yahoo
References: 
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
X-Home-Page: http://www.teledyn.com
Organization: TCI Business Innovation through Open Source Computing
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I'm a bit confused about this boycott thing.  How is what China is
doing any different than having Scientology and who ever else
state-side who takes the whim evoking the DMCA to close down foreign
sites they deem inappropriate?  At least the Chinese make it voluntary
and ask politely, rather than just sending legal musclemen first off.

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
  "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0673.1850e124a4ef3beb85071e67d7f8bf6d.eml000066400000000000000000000152341444326627400312760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 18 11:52:29 2002
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From: "Gordon Mohr" 
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References: <20020917172627.A1DBDC44D@argote.ch>
Subject: Defending Unliked Speech Re: Hanson's Sept 11 message in the
    National Review
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Robert Harley writes:
> Chuck Murcko wrote:

> > But I must feel obligated to defend to the death your right to do so.
>
> �Je d�sapprouve ce que vous dites, mais je d�fendrai jusqu'� ma mort votre
> droit de le dire�
> - Arouet Le Jeune, dit �Voltaire� (1694-1778).

Here's hoping that tradition perseveres for the novelist
currently on trial in Paris for calling Islam "the stupidest
religion"...

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/020917/5/ozxa.html

# Tuesday September 17 11:07 AM EST
#
# French Writer Tried As Anti-Islam, Protest Erupts
# By Caroline Brothers
#
# PARIS (Reuters) - Provocative French novelist Michel Houellebecq
# faced a Paris court on Tuesday for allegedly inciting racial hatred
# by calling Islam "the stupidest religion" and its holy book the
# Koran a depressing read.
#
# The case, brought against him by four Muslim groups, is a cause
# celebre reminiscent of the Salman Rushdie affair, pitting freedom of
# expression against religious sensitivities.
#
# The Muslim groups, which include the Mecca-based World Islamic
# League and the Paris Mosque, accuse the writer of insulting Islam in
# an interview with the literary magazine "Lire" during last year's
# launch of his novel "Plateforme."
#
# Lire is also on trial over the remarks, which have taken on an added
# significance in France in the atmosphere of heightened sensitivity
# and concern about Islam following the September 11 attacks by Muslim
# radicals in the United States.
#
# Shortly after the trial started, 11 people in the courtroom stripped
# off their shirts to reveal T-shirts saying "No to the censure of the
# imams" and "Marianne veiled, Marianne raped" -- a reference to the
# female symbol of the French republic.
#
# "Freedom of expression! freedom of expression!" they and other
# Houellebecq supporters chanted after they were thrown out of the
# courtroom at the main law courts in central Paris.
#
# While intellectuals argued before the trial that Houellebecq should
# be free to write what he wants, Lyon Mosque rector Kamel Kabtan
# retorted: "We are for freedom of expression, but not for insulting
# communities."
#
# BETE NOIRE
#
# Houellebecq, 45, the bete noire of contemporary French literature,
# is no stranger to controversy. He offended conservatives and the
# politically correct left with his 1998 novel "Les Particules
# Elementaires" ("Atomised" in English).
#
# Paris Mosque rector Dalil Boubakeur says Muslims have been insulted
# once before by Houellebecq, who had the main character in Plateforme
# admit he felt "a quiver of glee" every time a "Palestinian
# terrorist" was killed.
#
# The World Islamic League, the Lyon Mosque and the National
# Federation of Muslims in France have joined the Paris Mosque in
# bringing Houellebecq to trial.
#
# France's Human Rights League joined them as a civil party, saying
# Houellebecq's comments amounted to "Islamophobia" and deserved to be
# sanctioned as part of the league's struggle against discrimination
# and racism.
#
# The Paris Mosque has hired Jean-Marc Varaut, one of France's leading
# trial lawyers, whose past clients include Maurice Papon, the former
# official condemned in 1998 for Nazi-era crimes against humanity for
# sending Jews to death camps.
#
# RESTORING BLASPHEMY?
#
# Houellebecq's lawyer Emmanuel Pierrat argues that the case
# effectively re-establishes the notion of blasphemy, despite the fact
# that France as a secular state has no such law, and says
# Houellebecq's opponents want to deny him freedom of expression.
#
# He also argues that the interview in Lire truncated a six-hour
# conversation and Houellebecq was not given the chance to approve the
# article before it appeared.
#
# Houellebecq's publisher Flammarion has distanced itself from the
# author, whose comments some say may have cost him France's
# prestigious Goncourt prize -- for which he had been a contender.
#
# The novelist, who lives outside Cork, Ireland, writes in a detached
# style about a bleak world in which people have forgotten how to
# love.
#
# Translated into 25 languages, "Atomised" incensed France's 1968
# generation with its scathing descriptions of the hippie era but won
# him France's November prize in 1998 and the Impac award, one of the
# world's biggest fiction prizes.
#
# Losing his case may mean a year in jail or a $51,000 fine.

- Gordon


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0674.491042298959b1aed91c95ae2beaece2.eml000066400000000000000000000040201444326627400312630ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 18 11:52:31 2002
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"Adam L. Beberg" wrote:
> So, who has done RSA implementation before?

/me raises hand.


> Having a typo-I-cant-spot problem with my CRT...

Send me the source.


R


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0675.6af6c3451a0d2caed7a332366aa3ddd8.eml000066400000000000000000000042101444326627400313770ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 18 11:52:32 2002
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Pity.  Reading that woman's ad and knowing Rohit for years, they sound
like a match made in heaven.  But why, oh, why, keep that shaved-head
photo on prominent display???  There are lots of photos of Rohit
looking rather dashing, and with the crucial hair feature enabled!

R


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0676.80208e9973e3ec09a0377e1342c0a3a5.eml000066400000000000000000000053331444326627400307620ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 18 14:06:37 2002
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Subject: Re: boycotting yahoo
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CDale wrote:
> 
> I was wondering if anyone knows of an alternative that allows
> all the bells and whistles that yahoo has, such as reminders,
> file storage, calendars, etc.

SmartGroups, I think.
-- 
#ken	P-)}

Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini  http://Golux.Com/coar/
Author, developer, opinionist      http://Apache-Server.Com/

"Millennium hand and shrimp!"


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0677.16c583f992f1c13c9f2eb2aa58f84214.eml000066400000000000000000000065011444326627400311360ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 18 14:06:40 2002
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On Tue, Sep 17, 2002 at 09:11:01PM -0700, Paul Prescod wrote:
> Owen Byrne wrote:
> >...
> >
> >Except that parroting the party line doesn't really require much
> >freedom of speech. Now if you had posted something from a left of
> >center source, you would have been shouted down in flames, buried in 
> >ad hominem attacks, and probably get your name added to an FBI list. 
> 
> Do you think it is really useful to combat hysterical right-wing 
> propoganda with hysterical left-wing propoganda?
> 
Sure it is - it tends to bring out the people who let "hysterical
right wing propaganda" spew forth, while reaching for their gun 
whenever a "liberal" enters the room.

my hysterical left wing "propaganda" is generally an emotional
reaction on a mailing list, not an organizaed attempt at converting
people's thinking through lies and distortion (as was the original
article). 

Whereas your constant and predictable brandings of my postings are, to
 my mind, a deliberate and reasoned  effort to reduce debate, and
 discourage left of center postngs. 

Owen




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0678.98548de034832af64015d60cec0d69c6.eml000066400000000000000000000064431444326627400310640ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 18 14:06:41 2002
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From: CDale 
To: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
Cc: fork@example.com
Subject: Re: boycotting yahoo
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Well I don't think China could force Yahoo! to give up info.  So if they 
are so willing to give it, why wouldn't they be willing to give info to 
some silly group who may one day decide to get a hair up their ass about 
the practice of BDSMers? (not to mention folks who don't even practice, 
but who are just interested in information) What about folks who are 
interested in talking about software security issues?  Didja read about 
the guy in China who got 11 years for downloading and printing out pro-democracy 
info?
http://www.democracy.org.hk/EN/2002/aug/news_04.html
I'm confused about what you're confused about.
Cindy

On 18 Sep 2002, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:

> 
> I'm a bit confused about this boycott thing.  How is what China is
> doing any different than having Scientology and who ever else
> state-side who takes the whim evoking the DMCA to close down foreign
> sites they deem inappropriate?  At least the Chinese make it voluntary
> and ask politely, rather than just sending legal musclemen first off.
> 
> 

-- 
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0679.0395351a76c9b311808536a2bfa5961c.eml000066400000000000000000000055761444326627400307210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 18 17:43:34 2002
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	Flatware or Road Kill? 
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At 7:13 AM -0400 on 9/18/02, Rodent of Unusual Size wrote:


> SmartGroups, I think.

Dave Farber's Interesting People list just went over to


Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0680.7f29d3e313c7bf2b543c6fa48b43e77e.eml000066400000000000000000000072451444326627400313010ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 18 17:43:35 2002
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Subject: Re: [VoID] a new low on the personals tip...
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    <200209181145.50631.eh@mad.scientist.com>
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>>>>> "E" == Eirikur Hallgrimsson  writes:

    E> You just can't tell important things from a picture and a few
    E> words.  It's not how we are built.  There's no geek code for
    E> the heart and soul.

Nor is there a Turing Test, even for someone with whom you've spent 11
years, boom, bust and boom again, and 3 children (trust me) There is
no magic litmus test other than the totally empirical: "Try it and
see"

"String bags full of oranges
 And matters of the heart,
 People laugh at /anything/
 And things just fall apart."
 - michael leunig

The only real test, the only /sensible/ test, is to look back and
realize your relationship has lasted 50 years and see no reason to
believe it couldn't last another 50.  In the absense of 50 years of
actual (ahem) hands-on experiential data, a photo and a few words are
as good as any, provided you are prepared for the dynamics of it.

Love is a verb.  Sex is a /shared/ pursuit.  There is no
'relation-ship', there is only the crew.  sail away!

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
  "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0681.a0c682a61d47a58820ffa73d5555f3fb.eml000066400000000000000000000131451444326627400312070ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 18 17:43:31 2002
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From: Eirikur Hallgrimsson 
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On Wednesday 18 September 2002 06:47 am, Robert Harley wrote:
> ....and with the crucial hair feature enabled!

That got a good laugh out of me.   Just saying "crucial hair feature" 
improves my day immeasurably.

I've done a fair amount of thinking about the "media intermediated" meeting 
thing.   It seriously loses for reasons like Rohit's just encountered.   
One is both rejected for trivial reasons and rejects for the same.
Some people loudly defend that these choices are not trivial.

I'd have never met my best friend if I had to pick her out of a crowd for 
getting to know.   I was a teen at the time, but I won't say I'm much 
improved at being able to spot "interesting" at a distance.   Interesting 
isn't an external thing.  I have that brought home to me again every so 
often.  I may think that interesting people dress differently or whatever, 
but that's total superstition.   How do I know what your version of 
creative attire is?  Maybe it's purely functional.

I was at a loud party recently, sufficiently loud that conversation of any 
kind was extremely difficult, and intoxication was the norm.   I was 
working on what my algorithm for meeting people there should be and one of 
the candidates was "women, in order of attractiveness."   I flinched from 
that, rather violently.   At a trade show, or something, I might elect to 
talk to the people who are looking at interesting exhibits.   At a 
party.....well, if you can't hear the conversation they are having, or if 
on the net all you have is a photo.....

You just can't tell important things from a picture and a few words.  It's 
not how we are built.   There's no geek code for the heart and soul.
(And if there were people would lie and game the system.)
It's too easy to say "Oh, no!  He's a geek!"   or "She's a CAT person, 
ick!" when you might have a great time together.

We are constructed to form alliances based on how we fit together as 
people, how we feel in the other person's company, how well we partner on 
tasks and recreation.   This is all entirely speculative based on nothing 
but superstitious association unless you actually have time in the 
person's company.   Which is why we tend to be screwed when our circle of 
exposure shrinks after school.

Personally, as a writer, the whole internet meet & email thing ought to 
work better for me than it does for other people, but interestingly, it 
doesn't.   I have to put out the same amount of effort and reap about the 
same poor results.    I have to think it's not the people, but the tool.

An aside (okay, yes, I'm a tool geek):  Speed Dating
Speed Dating (aka 7 Minute Dating) is a live-action stab at actual time in 
the company of a variety of people, compressed into one event.   I think 
it's noticably better, but still absolutely nothing like working on a 
project together, cooking, climbing a mountain or whatever.
It was, in fact, invented as a jewish thing seeking to match up the young 
people to avoid total assimilation.   It has too much "interview" context 
and no shared activity beyond that.   I give it several points for effort 
though. 

I guess my impression that even the Speed Dating thing doesn't do much for 
you means that the traditional advice of "join activities groups" is 
actually sound.

Eirikur












golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0682.d34b905308dfbc89c0175ffcd5646113.eml000066400000000000000000000104451444326627400311300ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 11:04:48 2002
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Gordon Mohr quoted:
># French Writer Tried As Anti-Islam, Protest Erupts
># By Caroline Brothers
>#
># PARIS (Reuters) - Provocative French novelist Michel Houellebecq
># faced a Paris court on Tuesday for allegedly inciting racial hatred
># by calling Islam "the stupidest religion" and its holy book the
># Koran a depressing read.
>#
># The case, brought against him by four Muslim groups, is a cause
># celebre reminiscent of the Salman Rushdie affair, pitting freedom of
># expression against religious sensitivities.

Very reminiscent indeed.  Ayatollah Chirac has decreed a death
sentence on Houellebecq and liked-minded fundamentalists have offered
millions of euros bounty for his head, so he has gone into hiding
under police protection for a few years.

Or maybe some handful of Muslims are acting uppity and dragging him to
court under "hate speech" laws make a point about people not showin'
dem da massive respect dat dey deserve, especially these days.

Or maybe some journo is trying to fill column inches on a boring day.


BTW I read Houellebecq's "Extension du domaine de la lutte" recently,
about a depressed computer services dude working in Paris, looking for
love and not finding it, slowing losing his marbles and trying to get
a friend of his to kill a woman, and ending up in a clinic for
nutcases...  Yikes!  Purposely provocative, very depressing, with some
unbelievably boring passages where the anti-hero writes little stories
about animals talking philosophical mumbo-jumbo to each other, quoted
inline in full for pages on end.

It starts out:

"On Friday evening, I was invited to a party with some colleagues from
work.  There were about thrity of us, all professionals aged from
twenty-five to forty.  At one point, some cunt started getting
undressed. She took off her T-shirt, then her bra, then her skirt, all
the while making unbelievable faces.  She pranced around for a few
seconds, then she started getting dresesd again because she didn't
know what else to do.  Anyway she never sleeps with anyone.  Which
underlines the absurdity of her behaviour.

After my fourth glass of vodka I started to feel pretty bad so I had
to go lie down on a bunch of cushions behind the couch.  Shortly after
that, two girls came and sat on the couch.  Those girls are not pretty
at all, the two fat office cows actually.  They go to eat together and
read books about the development of language in children, all that
sort of stuff."

... and it's downhill from there!


R


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0683.782e26a57d2ef6f0d8f9e82b658563e0.eml000066400000000000000000000074361444326627400311660ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 11:04:49 2002
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From: CDale 
To: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
Cc: fork@example.com
Subject: Re: [VoID] a new low on the personals tip...
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Hear hear, Gary.  I'm living with a guy right now who I met at a party, 
emailed with for 2 weeks, then powie!  We were both looking at similar 
goals in life in general, had some attraction for each other, and decided 
to wing it.  I can't say what's going to happen tomorrow, but right now, 
and for the past few months, we've been happy.  Onward Ho!  (:
Cindy

On 18 Sep 2002, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:

> >>>>> "E" == Eirikur Hallgrimsson  writes:
> 
>     E> You just can't tell important things from a picture and a few
>     E> words.  It's not how we are built.  There's no geek code for
>     E> the heart and soul.
> 
> Nor is there a Turing Test, even for someone with whom you've spent 11
> years, boom, bust and boom again, and 3 children (trust me) There is
> no magic litmus test other than the totally empirical: "Try it and
> see"
> 
> "String bags full of oranges
>  And matters of the heart,
>  People laugh at /anything/
>  And things just fall apart."
>  - michael leunig
> 
> The only real test, the only /sensible/ test, is to look back and
> realize your relationship has lasted 50 years and see no reason to
> believe it couldn't last another 50.  In the absense of 50 years of
> actual (ahem) hands-on experiential data, a photo and a few words are
> as good as any, provided you are prepared for the dynamics of it.
> 
> Love is a verb.  Sex is a /shared/ pursuit.  There is no
> 'relation-ship', there is only the crew.  sail away!
> 
> 

-- 
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0684.f0f0e8e9d0c203b93278c58447e3ce88.eml000066400000000000000000000060111444326627400311420ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 11:04:51 2002
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Perhaps we should start a grass roots movement here on FoRK and send the 
nice lady a few emails on his behalf? Better yet, why don't we see on 
who can write the best personals ad for Rohit? I'll post the best one to 
Craigs' list on his behalf. The winner can take me out to dinner. (No, 
really, I'm charming.)

Elias


Robert Harley wrote:

>Pity.  Reading that woman's ad and knowing Rohit for years, they sound
>like a match made in heaven.  But why, oh, why, keep that shaved-head
>photo on prominent display???  There are lots of photos of Rohit
>looking rather dashing, and with the crucial hair feature enabled!
>
>R
>



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0685.1658351aa8cc515f74fb3eee7418d143.eml000066400000000000000000000062641444326627400311370ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 11:04:53 2002
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On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, Tom wrote:

> The others are on mailing list only status for now. A few of the
> groups I was in that are run by others are harder to deal with since
> many folks just dont want to have to deal with the inconvienence of a
> understanding.

I've terminated a number of my own mailing lists at yahoogroups many
months ago because of similiar sentiments. I've tried lobbying other
people to move, but with about zero success.

I've got currently only one own mailing list there, which I'm going to
move as soon as it is technically possible (which is my ISP's problem,
basically). After that, I intend to kick yahoogroups for good.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0686.be9e16843bcf570a9e7e9549f770d3ac.eml000066400000000000000000000136431444326627400313230ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 11:04:56 2002
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I know it's not the popular choice for a lot of people, but I'd
suggest, um, church. :-). Like Woody Allen said, 90% of life is
showing up, right?


Almost anyone can find a church where the sermons don't make you bust
out laughing, and you're set. I, for instance, am a Unitarian, which,
as someone once observed, is merely a decompression chamber between a
real church and a golf course. (ObUUJokes: Mid 70's bumper-sticker:
"Honk if you're not sure"; Lenny Bruce: "Did you hear about how the
Klan burned a question mark on the Unitarian's lawn?"; "Unitarians
would rather go to a discussion group about heaven than to heaven
itself."; "Unitarians pray 'to whom it may concern'"; etc...)

But, seriously, folks, my teenage-adopted denomination (I'm, um,
lapsed, on several fronts, a Dutch-Reformed-turned-atheist father and
an agnostic mother who used to be a southern Baptist of some stripe
or another) and frankly limousine liberal secular-humanist
congregation is about as orthogonal to my present
congenital-Republican small-l libertarian turned anarchocapitalist
politics as it is possible to be (except for the secular-humanist
bit...), and I still go pretty regularly, though not as much as I
used to. Heck, the older I get the less of the divine I believe in.
I'm asymptotically approaching my father's atheism, these days, and I
show up at least once a month. Nice folks though, when I can keep a
civil tongue in my head -- smart too, when I can't and end up arguing
with them. :-).


Anyway, if *I* can end up hitched, anyone can. Talk about orthogonal.
I met my practically-socialist state-education-bureaucrat wife one
year after I started, moved in with her 6 weeks later :-), married
her 2 years after that, and I wasn't even trying meet women. I was
just looking to make friends as I was new in town.


The trick to the church thing is, whatever denomination/congregation
you end up in, expect to end up with a mate, not a date. I mean, some
guys manage to stay single, but most, like me, don't. You can
practically see the laser-sights light up when you walk into a
room...

That's because, of course, most churches are *run* by women. Most
regular attendants are women. Hell, 65% of all new *ministers*, in
protestant denominations, at least, are women. No matter your age,
looks, intelligence, whatever, you'll end up surrounded by women.
You'll be outnumbered, even several to one -- some of whom are at
least better looking than you are. :-). The only place where there
are *more* women running things is in grass-roots Republican politics
- -- but I won't go there, I promise.


If I may make a presumption here, since you brought it up, I figure
that between the sophistication and diversity of the subcontinent's
religions, and the ubiquity of Indians in various stages of
assimilation in So/NoCal, you can find some place to hang out near
you, Rohit. You probably don't even have to go, um, native, like I
did -- backsliding on my own ostensibly rational godless upbringing
and becoming, horrors, a Unitarian...

Cheers,
RAH

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-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0687.e47c95556602cc66337c90bc82efa66a.eml000066400000000000000000000063401444326627400311450ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 11:04:59 2002
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From: Tom 
To: "R. A. Hettinga" 
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Subject: Re: [VoID] a new low on the personals tip...
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On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, R. A. Hettinga wrote:
--]I know it's not the popular choice for a lot of people, but I'd
--]suggest, um, church. :-). Like Woody Allen said, 90% of life is
--]showing up, right?
--]

I think another venue for finding people is the workplace. As a contractor
I have had the opertunity to meet lots of eligables over the course of my
wandering workhistory.

My wife was my Task Order Manager years ago, thats  how we met. Her joke
is that she is still my Task Order Manager but now I dont get paid:)-

By starting up your own companies or working in sterile thinklabs you are
cutting yourself off from one heck of a fertile ground for linkages....the
common office.

I like the shurch idea as well. Other ideas...

Book circles, geocaching groups, heck Rhorho your still young enough to
hit the campus mixers...and I mean the social stuff not the techtech
events.


Above all, ask yourself whats important to you..

Life, you either life it or you waste it.


-tom


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0688.0c95af46930f4b1c6917030045619a50.eml000066400000000000000000000070711444326627400306230ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 11:05:01 2002
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Church, AA, same diff?

;-).

Cheers,
RAH


http://www.newsmax.com/archive/print.shtml?a=2002/9/18/161934

NewsMax.com



Wednesday, September 18, 2002

AA Meetings the Hottest Place to Meet Women With Big Bucks

If you're looking to hook up with female millionaires you could try some of
the classier restaurants or clubs, but the best place of all is a certain
New York City Alcoholics Anonymous meeting.

According to a Details magazine story cited in the New York Post, "the No.
1 location to score a megabucks babe is an Alcoholics Anonymous center on
[New York's] Upper East Side.

"It's the choicest meeting in town, right next to the Ralph Lauren store"
on Madison Avenue, which features "rich vulnerable women," the mag's
October issue says.

AA officials were not overjoyed by having the address of their meeting
place published, or being cited as the "in" place for finding loaded women
- or rather, women who are loaded.

"The purpose of our meetings is to let people share their experiences and
help others find sobriety. It is not a place to pick up women!" an AA
spokesman told The Post.

O.K.

Return


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0689.0b105c87d5d0ac5638013457882d917b.eml000066400000000000000000000045551444326627400307170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 11:05:03 2002
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On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, R. A. Hettinga wrote:

--]Church, AA, same diff?

AA is sort of church with ashtrays.



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0690.d6ab63f165b36f3bac2873fec24a797b.eml000066400000000000000000000062361444326627400313530ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 11:05:05 2002
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On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, R. A. Hettinga wrote:
--]AA Meetings the Hottest Place to Meet Women With Big Bucks

And, as always, you can take a page out of Fight Club and start showing up
at all sorts of support groups. Look what it did for Marla and Jack...

"JACK You can't have *both* parasites. You take blood parasites and --
MARLA I want brain parasites.
She opens another dryer and does the same thing again. PG 19
JACK Okay. I'll take blood parasites and I'll take organic brain dementia
and --
MARLA I want that.
JACK You can't have the whole brain!
MARLA So far, you have four and I have two!
JACK Well, then, take blood  parasites. Now, we each have three.
MARLA So, we each have three -- that's six. What  about the seventh day? I
want ascending bowel cancer.
JACK *I* want ascending bowel cancer.
MARLA That's your favorite, too? Tried to slip it by me, huh?
JACK We'll split it. You get it the first and third Sunday of the month.
MARLA Deal."


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0691.bdcd311a789b4002c5f1afd663aaa1df.eml000066400000000000000000000077461444326627400314710ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 11:05:08 2002
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advice to the lovelorn haiku

serendipity
pilots synchronicity:
turn the next corner.

-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of Tom
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 7:13 PM
To: R. A. Hettinga
Cc: fork@example.com
Subject: Re: AA Meetings the Hottest Place to Meet Women With Big Bucks


On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, R. A. Hettinga wrote:
--]AA Meetings the Hottest Place to Meet Women With Big Bucks

And, as always, you can take a page out of Fight Club and start showing up
at all sorts of support groups. Look what it did for Marla and Jack...

"JACK You can't have *both* parasites. You take blood parasites and --
MARLA I want brain parasites.
She opens another dryer and does the same thing again. PG 19
JACK Okay. I'll take blood parasites and I'll take organic brain dementia
and --
MARLA I want that.
JACK You can't have the whole brain!
MARLA So far, you have four and I have two!
JACK Well, then, take blood  parasites. Now, we each have three.
MARLA So, we each have three -- that's six. What  about the seventh day? I
want ascending bowel cancer.
JACK *I* want ascending bowel cancer.
MARLA That's your favorite, too? Tried to slip it by me, huh?
JACK We'll split it. You get it the first and third Sunday of the month.
MARLA Deal."






golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0693.34e853f55e9434e84268d25d2f0a6f91.eml000066400000000000000000000077521444326627400310220ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 11:05:14 2002
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less obscure haiku 

buy a puppy, ro!
they are chick magnets. master
ventriloquism.

gg



-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of Tom
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 7:13 PM
To: R. A. Hettinga
Cc: fork@example.com
Subject: Re: AA Meetings the Hottest Place to Meet Women With Big Bucks


On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, R. A. Hettinga wrote:
--]AA Meetings the Hottest Place to Meet Women With Big Bucks

And, as always, you can take a page out of Fight Club and start showing up
at all sorts of support groups. Look what it did for Marla and Jack...

"JACK You can't have *both* parasites. You take blood parasites and --
MARLA I want brain parasites.
She opens another dryer and does the same thing again. PG 19
JACK Okay. I'll take blood parasites and I'll take organic brain dementia
and --
MARLA I want that.
JACK You can't have the whole brain!
MARLA So far, you have four and I have two!
JACK Well, then, take blood  parasites. Now, we each have three.
MARLA So, we each have three -- that's six. What  about the seventh day? I
want ascending bowel cancer.
JACK *I* want ascending bowel cancer.
MARLA That's your favorite, too? Tried to slip it by me, huh?
JACK We'll split it. You get it the first and third Sunday of the month.
MARLA Deal."






golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0694.81370eede2be95453ba67195c8619c60.eml000066400000000000000000000100611444326627400310560ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 11:05:16 2002
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Subject: Re[2]: AA Meetings the Hottest Place to Meet Women With Big Bucks
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And the ever popular...


Or bring a baby,
Provided you do not own,
Women come, at baby's cry.


GS> less obscure haiku 

GS> buy a puppy, ro!
GS> they are chick magnets. master
GS> ventriloquism.

GS> gg



GS> -----Original Message-----
GS> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of Tom
GS> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 7:13 PM
GS> To: R. A. Hettinga
GS> Cc: fork@example.com
GS> Subject: Re: AA Meetings the Hottest Place to Meet Women With Big Bucks


GS> On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, R. A. Hettinga wrote:
GS> --]AA Meetings the Hottest Place to Meet Women With Big Bucks

GS> And, as always, you can take a page out of Fight Club and start showing up
GS> at all sorts of support groups. Look what it did for Marla and Jack...

GS> "JACK You can't have *both* parasites. You take blood parasites and --
GS> MARLA I want brain parasites.
GS> She opens another dryer and does the same thing again. PG 19
GS> JACK Okay. I'll take blood parasites and I'll take organic brain dementia
GS> and --
GS> MARLA I want that.
GS> JACK You can't have the whole brain!
GS> MARLA So far, you have four and I have two!
GS> JACK Well, then, take blood  parasites. Now, we each have three.
GS> MARLA So, we each have three -- that's six. What  about the seventh day? I
GS> want ascending bowel cancer.
GS> JACK *I* want ascending bowel cancer.
GS> MARLA That's your favorite, too? Tried to slip it by me, huh?
GS> JACK We'll split it. You get it the first and third Sunday of the month.
GS> MARLA Deal."








-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                            mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0695.938b36dec489bf6860a534c70f5853a8.eml000066400000000000000000000062651444326627400311050ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 11:05:18 2002
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To: Tom 
Cc: "R. A. Hettinga" , fork@example.com,
	Digital Bearer Settlement List 
Subject: Re: [VoID] a new low on the personals tip...
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Tom wrote:

>On Wed, 18 Sep 2002, R. A. Hettinga wrote:
>--]I know it's not the popular choice for a lot of people, but I'd
>--]suggest, um, church. :-). Like Woody Allen said, 90% of life is
>--]showing up, right?
>--]
>
>I think another venue for finding people is the workplace. As a contractor
>I have had the opertunity to meet lots of eligables over the course of my
>wandering workhistory.
>
>My wife was my Task Order Manager years ago, thats  how we met. Her joke
>is that she is still my Task Order Manager but now I dont get paid:)-
>  
>
Sure if you're willing to risk firing, lawsuits, etc. The last full time 
job I had the sexual harassement seminar
was pretty clear - yes you can have relationships at the office, but its 
extremely difficult, and the pitfalls are
horrendous.

Owen




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0696.5115510438ad02471df930ada920d7dc.eml000066400000000000000000000057161444326627400310340ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 11:05:20 2002
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Subject: Re: [VoID] a new low on the personals tip...
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This sort of thing is, in my (limited?) experience, increasingly a thing 
of the past. Not one person I know has found it worth the risk to pursue 
a relationship with someone in the workplace. It's terrible to think we 
could litigate our way into extinction...!

Elias


Owen Byrne wrote:

> ... The last full time job I had the sexual harassement seminar
> was pretty clear - yes you can have relationships at the office, but 
> its extremely difficult, and the pitfalls are horrendous. 




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0697.19351a0b5670fb30cc1a2c9eed90a26b.eml000066400000000000000000000135061444326627400312470ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: irregulars-admin@tb.tf  Thu Sep 19 11:05:24 2002
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Subject: [IRR] [dgc.chat] First public release of NeuDist Distributed
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--- begin forwarded text


Status: RO
Subject: [dgc.chat] First public release of NeuDist Distributed Transaction
Clearing	Framework
From: Pelle Braendgaard 
To: dgcchat@lists.goldmoney.com
Cc: Digital Bearer Settlement List , DGCChat
, xmlx 
Date: 19 Sep 2002 00:05:39 -0500
Reply-To: 

I'm happy to announce the first public release of NeuDist

NeuDist is an Open Source Software framework for building applications
for the Neubia Distributed Clearing Platform.

This release contains early java libraries and documentation that would
primarily be of interest to developers.

Talking about documentation, it is still a bit slim and mainly oriented
towards people with experience in Java/XML development.

There are currently no sample applications, but they will be available
in the next release.

The framework currently contains the following:
- Classes for creating "Named Objects", which are authenticated using
digital signatures within a hierarchy.
- Storage framework for "Named Objects".
- Simple XML-Signature implementation (Almost certainly not yet
interoperable with other implementations)
- Simple SOAP client
- Simple Servlet API for handling SOAP requests based on "Named
  Objects".
- Current types of "Named Objects" include:
    NameSpace objects -- for maintaining the NameSpace Authentication
 	Framework
    AuthenticationTickets -- for doing web site authentication using
	digital signatures.


Next major release is scheduled to contain:
 - Core:
	hard coded root public key, for authenticating top level 	NameSpaces
 - Signing Services:
	Implementation of web based signing services
	End user hosted signing service
 - Example User Authentication Application
 - Example Payment System based on NeuDist

I will be expanding the documentation over the next few weeks. This will
cover not only more indepth technical documentation, but also higher
level documentation about the business side of things.

Read more about NeuDist or download our early version at
http://neudist.org
I would love to hear your questions and suggestions. To discuss it
further please join neudist-discuss@lists.sourceforge.net
You can join it at:
http://lists.sourceforge.net/mailman/listinfo/neudist-discuss


Regards
Pelle
-- 
Antilles Software Ventures SA 		http://neubia.com/asv
My Web Log Live and Direct from Panama	http://talk.org
Views of an EconoFist			http://econofist.com



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-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
_______________________________________________
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Irregulars@tb.tf
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This is for those that have interacted with D Winer

"Dave's idea of love is fucking everyone else without so much as a reach
around.  You're supposed to just shut up and take it."

http://winerlog.inspiredsites.net/

===========

Who's the real monster?


It seems good Ol' Uncle Dave is once again trying to savage anyone that
dares to disagree with him.  It seems Ben, Kevin and Bill are making too
strong a case.  So here we Dave's attempt to fool you into thinking they're
some sort of monsters, violent ones no less.

Anyone who works with Hemenway or Kearney should be aware that these people
are nothing less than monsters, who will stoop to any level to get their
way.

Yeah sure Dave, whatever you need to believe.

The truth is these folks do a fine job of actually helping others and
improving RSS in general.  Each with their own brand of attitude, to be
sure, but they seem to be pretty focused on actually helping things move
forward.  How is that being monstrous?

Is Dave trying to slander their good names and thus poison the public's
perception of them?  If you haven't already, contact them and ask them how
they feel about this foolishness.


 9/18/02; 10:07:38 AM - Discuss



Dave deflects what he can't take the time to understand


It's really quite pitiful.  When normal people don't understand something
they usually try learning about it.  They read up, ask questions and seek
the help of those that understand it.  This before shooting their mouths off
and looking like fools.

What Dave does is just the opposite.

Posts a link to something he doesn't understand
Get's a bunch of e-mail from people who do understand it
Derides the idea as being 'too much trouble' and blogs it.
Expects others to do research for him
Abuses anyone who tries to help him
Pontificates, incorrectly, about only part of the issue
Realizes he's been a fool but refuses to correct himself
Plods forward pedantically trying to defend his idiocy
Tries making the educated people look like fools.
Sends private e-mails to them trying to scare them off.
Exposes any private e-mail they write, out of context.
Deflects and runs off to some new topic, repeats from #1
His continued diatribes about RSS-1.0 and it's use of RDF reveal this to be
true.  Dave doesn't get the idea of the semantic web.  He'd rather have you
follow his stupid ideas than dare admit that the work of others is worth
trying.

One reader wrote to us with a good analogy.  "It's like that movie The
Poseidon Adventure.  Dave's like the purser ranting and raving that the
passengers should follow him and march toward the bow.  I don't know about
you but I'd rather be with the fat lady swimming toward the engine room.
The ship's fucking sinking and I don't want to be following the idiot."

Dave's idea of love is fucking everyone else without so much as a reach
around.  You're supposed to just shut up and take it.  After all, why would
good ol' Uncle Dave want to hurt you?  It's all about love, right?  To hell
with asking you if you want to get shafted.  And if you dare complain, he
savages you.  Then he tries to make everyone think you're the one causing
all the trouble.

We've news for you Dave, we're wise to your tactics and we're talking
amongst ourselves about it.  We're routing around you damaging behavoir.
That's where we're coming from.

If you have an example of how you've tried to help Dave, please drop us an
e-mail about it.  We'll keep it strictly confidential of course.  Send it
along to zaphod@egroups.com


 9/12/02; 10:13:11 AM - Discuss




Trying to talk with Dave is like trying to wrestle a pig...


The trouble is, you get dirty and the pig seems to like it.

Another developer tries talking to Dave and discovers it's fundamentally
impossible:

His basic response was just that RDF was a joke and the Semantic Web
developers are doing a terrible job.

In the span of less than five minutes Dave makes such an ass of himself that
people at other tables start whispering "that guy is an idiot..."

The zaphodim, however, are veteran pig wrestlers.  If you've got a similar
tale from the mud pit, be sure to drop us a line at: zaphod@egroups.com.


 9/11/02; 2:17:58 PM - Discuss (1 response)




Aha! Some backing down by the whining one?


It would appear the 'dictator release' strategy that Dave's been trying on
his crappy little set of RSS hacks is failing to gain support.

I'm going to push back the caveat-removing on the 2.0 spec by 24 hours.
Still have work to do on the sample file, I want to look into the RFC for
time-date specs, and get started on the Radio implementation of 2.0. I have
to prepare for Seybold tomorrow, and I want to a little memorial for 9-11. A
busy few days for a guy still recovering. Also, it would be great if people
who make content tools could review the 2.0 spec and see if there are any
deal-stoppers.

Hell yeah there are deal stoppers, like nobody wants it nor will they use
it!

The poor Radio customers!  The poor Salon blog users!  They're going to be
dragged unwillingly into producing XML content that nobody will use!  So
with the flip of his mighty upgrade switch Dave is going to turn all their
content into totally unsupported garbage!!!

Ya better speak up now folks otherwise your content is going to start
getting rejected!

Of course at the same time Dave tries to play the sympathy card.  What utter
fucking nonsense.  This past weekend, the blogosphere excoriates him for his
'blame America' bullshit.  Then the RSS community tells him to get stuffed
with his dictator release of RSS.  Now he's trying to pretend we should be
nice to him because he's still recovering?

Uh, Dave, if you want to take a rest from the battle then stop picking
fights.  We'll still kick your ass regardless.  That's what years of your
abusing people has gotten you Dave.  No sympathy anymore, none whatsoever.


 9/11/02; 1:56:10 PM - Discuss




Dave is Scary on 9/11

Posted on Scripting News on 9/10/2002:


Note: During the day tomorrow there will be no updates to Scripting News.
I'll be in SF at Seybold, leading a discussion on Web Services for
Publishing with people from Amazon, Apple, Google and Jake Savin of
UserLand. I may be able to update my Radio weblog, but only if there's
something really important to report. So best wishes for a happy and safe
9-11.
What kind of asshole wishes people a happy 9/11??!?!?!?!??!! Obviously
someone who doesn't have a clue nor lost anyone in the tragedy.


 9/11/02; 7:56:06 AM - Discuss




Yeow and we though we were harsh!


Wow, apparently Dave's sticking his neck out quite far these days.  Craig
Schamp practically keel-hauls him with this one.  He wraps it up with:

The man seems to show over and over that he's nothing more than a whining
buffoon

Give that man an honorary Zaphodim membership card and secret decoder ring!

Related links over at PhotoDude, Richard Bennett, Andrea Harris, Reid Stott,
Jeff Jarvis, Ipse Dixit, and the Fat Guy.


 9/9/02; 12:29:45 PM - Discuss




RSS 2.0: code name "Hitler"


If Dave tries to steamroll RSS 2.0 through without formal community
consensus, here now we call it the "Hitler" release of 2.0.

"No objections"?  No, he means "No objections I choose to hear."

Dave is simply not listening.  People are objecting all over.




 9/6/02; 9:00:02 AM - Discuss




Referral log funnies


Every now and then we check the referral logs to see what's pointing back to
us.  We sincerely apologize to the pool soul that used this search.


 9/5/02; 12:15:07 PM - Discuss




Luserland Attempts to Trademark "RSS"


Dave has waxed and waned about intellectual property rights and how any
BigCo that tries to patent its technology or methods is corrupt or morally
bankrupt. Scripting News is full of examples.

So we found it surprising, as did many others, when Luserland software tried
to patent the term 'RSS' back in 2000. Here's the patent application:

http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=78025336

This was apparently just between the start of the RSS 1.0 development
efforts, and the publication of the specification. Winer knew about the RSS
1.0 stuff - indeed, he complained about it bitterly at the time.

Could Dave be any more transparent?!?!??!?!!!!!!!

Since when has Dave been required to follow anything he says he wants others
to do??? A good quote from before he filed the patent application:

Tim O'Reilly says patents are OK, he's just against stupid patents. In the
spirit of Touch of Grey, Tim man, patents are lock-in of the worst kind.
There's no way to route around them.

 9/4/02; 6:06:51 AM - Discuss




When's a Permalink not a Permalink?


When Dave writes an item, then removes it!!!!!!!!!!! The permalink links to
nothing at that point. So apparently the "perma-" part in permalink is
permanent. For everyone except Dave. Too bad his little attempt at a
definition fails to mention this...!!!!!!!!!


 9/2/02; 6:16:03 PM - Discuss







golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0700.5a134a606e773c40b71ec59a599e61ad.eml000066400000000000000000000057221444326627400311170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 11:05:33 2002
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From: Morbus Iff 
Subject: Re: Oh ma gawd - funny site of the day...
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>It seems good Ol' Uncle Dave is once again trying to savage anyone that
>dares to disagree with him.  It seems Ben, Kevin and Bill are making too
>strong a case.  So here we Dave's attempt to fool you into thinking they're
>some sort of monsters, violent ones no less.
>
>Anyone who works with Hemenway or Kearney should be aware that these people
>are nothing less than monsters, who will stoop to any level to get their

/me coughs... I'm part of the Monster club. They call me... Hemenway! 

-- 
Morbus Iff ( i assault your sensibilities! )
Culture: http://www.disobey.com/ and http://www.gamegrene.com/
Tech: http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/au/779 - articles and weblog
icq: 2927491 / aim: akaMorbus / yahoo: morbus_iff / jabber.org: morbus


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Subject: Re: Hanson's Sept 11 message in the National Review
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To: "Owen Byrne" 
From: Chuck Murcko 
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Heh, ten years ago saying the exact same words was most definitely not 
"parroting the party line".

It was even less so thirty years ago. My story remains the same, take it 
or leave it. I've said the same words to white supremacists as to 
suburban leftist punks as to homeys as to French Irish, etc. etc.:

I don't have to agree with anything you say. I *am* obligated to defend 
to the death your right to say it. I don't give a rat's ass where you 
say it, even in France. I don't care where the political pendulum has 
swung currently.

Chuck

On Tuesday, September 17, 2002, at 10:38 AM, Owen Byrne wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 17, 2002 at 10:19:13AM -0700, Chuck Murcko wrote:
>> Probably because we have this pesky 1st Amendment thing here. Still,
>> lots of us in the States have developed a disturbing tendency to shout
>> down or (in recent years) shackle in legal BS opinions, thoughts, and
>> individual behaviors we don't agree with.
>>
>
> Except that parroting the party line doesn't really require much
> freedom of speech. Now if you had posted something from a left of
> center source, you would have been shouted down in flames, buried in
> ad hominem attacks, and probably get your name added to an FBI list.
>
>
> Besides the basic rule in the United States now is "I'll defend your
> rights to say anything you want, but if it isn't appropriately
> neoconish, well, don't expect to work":
>
>
> HHS Seeks Science Advice to Match Bush Views
>
> By Rick Weiss
> Washington Post Staff Writer
> Tuesday, September 17, 2002; Page A01
>
> The Bush administration has begun a broad restructuring of the
> scientific advisory committees that guide federal policy in areas such
> as patients' rights and public health, eliminating some committees
> that were coming to conclusions at odds with the president's views and
> in other cases replacing members with handpicked choices.
> ...
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26554-2002Sep16.html
>
> Owen
>


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0702.3612af1b8e5d8fcb512f20e4340530a7.eml000066400000000000000000000062641444326627400311010ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 13:14:49 2002
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Chuck Murcko wrote:

> Heh, ten years ago saying the exact same words was most definitely not 
> "parroting the party line".
>
> It was even less so thirty years ago. My story remains the same, take 
> it or leave it. I've said the same words to white supremacists as to 
> suburban leftist punks as to homeys as to French Irish, etc. etc.:
>
> I don't have to agree with anything you say. I *am* obligated to 
> defend to the death your right to say it. I don't give a rat's ass 
> where you say it, even in France. I don't care where the political 
> pendulum has swung currently.
>
> Chuck


I had to laugh at Rumsfield yesterday - when he was heckled by 
protestors, he said something like "They couldn't do that in Iraq." 
Meanwhile, from what I could tell, the protestors were being arrested.

Owen



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0703.3654d01671685fc22993eae582a55152.eml000066400000000000000000000036721444326627400306320ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 13:26:37 2002
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Chuck Murcko wrote:
>[...stuff...]

Yawn.

R


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0704.f62f0ee295a7f648249c8104a8e45843.eml000066400000000000000000000047331444326627400310060ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 16:25:51 2002
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Subject: Re: AA Meetings the Hottest Place to Meet Women With Big Bucks
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R. A. Hettinga:
>Church, AA, same diff?

It's difficult to measure which is the greater
liability in a potential mate, religiosity or
alcoholism.


_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0705.1830e9bc42a6a72f3bb5806dd9e09e5c.eml000066400000000000000000000053631444326627400312660ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 16:25:55 2002
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Owne Byrne:
>Sure if you're willing to risk firing, lawsuits, etc. The last full time 
>job I had the sexual harassement seminar was pretty clear - yes you can 
>have relationships at the office, but its extremely difficult, and the 
>pitfalls are
>horrendous.

Despite that, this is how a lot of couples meet.
People tease me about Carolyn, that I just hired
a lot of software engineering babes, and then
chose the one I liked best. ;-)






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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0706.ef90d85cf26d95101f9f5071ac457a81.eml000066400000000000000000000064641444326627400311420ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 16:25:57 2002
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In a message dated 9/19/2002 7:46:37 AM, chuck@topsail.org writes:

>That means *you* can't say anything may not be FoRKed or printed or 
>whatever. You have the choice to ignore it


That's not what the First Amendment says at all. It says that Congress cannot 
say what can't be FoRKed. FoRK can establish any rules it wants. Similarly, 
The New York Times gets to choose what news IT thinks is "fit to print." If 
the Times chose not to print anything about, say, Rosie O'Donnell, it would 
be exercising its First Amendment rights, just as much as it would be if it 
chose to print something Rosie O'Donnell doesn't like. The necessary 
corollary of the freedom to say/publish what one wants is the freedom to 
refuse to publish or say what one doesn't like. The alternative is a 
state-controlled press that reprints government press releases and calls them 
news.

The question of what is or is not FoRKed is (except for libel or other 
specific exceptions) not a matter of law, but a matter of what the 
"publisher" (if any) decides or the "community" (if any) negotiates or does 
as a matter of custom.

For my part, I'd rather people didn't use FoRK as a place in which to dump an 
expression of their political beliefs.

Tom


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0707.bf65d1743592ac78606c57cea2908866.eml000066400000000000000000000057661444326627400310210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 16:26:02 2002
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Robert Harley:
>>BTW, I wasn't aware that the 1st Amendment mandated that crap must be 
>>FoRKed.

Chuck Murcko :
>It doesn't, BTW. It says the right to free speech shall not be abridged. 
>That means *you* can't say anything may not be FoRKed or printed or 
>whatever.

Actually, it means just the opposite. The first
amendment guarantees Harley's right to say just
that. For the outlets where he has editorial
control, it even guarantees his right to CENSOR
content published through those outlets. The
first amendment doesn't limit Harley's speech,
and it is neutral with regard to the selection
policies of FoRK and other private venues.



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0708.fe13d44640fb0f6e7d9d6a50c813a01f.eml000066400000000000000000000213721444326627400312560ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 16:26:10 2002
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From: Gregory Alan Bolcer 
Subject: Webex Endeavors
To: FoRK 
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Organization: Endeavors Technology, Inc.
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We have a partnership with Webex.  We use their serivce
for cross-firewall app sharing--something that Netmeeting/Messenger
and Sametime require a lot of configuration of firewalls,
authentications, access controls and user training for.  

Now Webex has invites, instant meeting launch without any 
configuration. Users like it as now they have something to do 
in between Web conferences and places to store and author 
documents, reschedule meetings, relaunch meetings.  Webex likes 
it as people are signed on all the time.  

Greg



September 19, 2002

  Tadpole's Secure Web Software Subsidiary Endeavors Technology Teams With Web
  Meetings Leader WebEx Communications
  To Provide Best-of-Breed Solution For Extended Group Collaboration During
  and Between Online Meetings

  Web meetings raise the quality of team interaction and communications for
  users of the Web's secure, P2P collaboration network

  ###

  Tadpole Technology plc, the mobile computing and network infrastructure
  group, today announces that its web collaboration subsidiary, Endeavors
  Technology, Inc., has teamed with Web meetings leader, WebEx
  Communications,Inc. to help professionals make better use of corporate time
  and resources, and gain competitive advantage. By integrating the advanced
  communications capabilities of the WebEx platform with Endeavors' secure P2P
  collaboration network, Endeavors has created a new method of world-class
  teamwork and interaction without the hassle of travel.

  With the rapid growth in popularity of Web meetings, the rationale for this
  world-class relationship stems from the growing need for workgroups around
  the world to maintain the quality of the team collaboration experience
  between online meetings. The issue by those preferring not to travel is how
  to continue to collaborate and share information with team members between
  meetings rather than depending on intermittent, insecure email and multiple
  copies of constantly changing documents.

  Inter-meeting collaboration needs an asynchronous medium, independent of
  time. In asynchronous mode, a team member can access, read and edit
  information relevant to the meeting group at his/her convenience rather than
  having to fit into the schedules and timeframes of others. A secured
  environment available only to members of a meeting or project is also
  essential.

  Endeavors' Magi technology converts the Web into a secure platform for
  sharing information directly from people's desktops. WebEx meetings can be
  recorded and reviewed at any time, documents shared in the meeting can be
  actioned in real-time or at a later date, calendars and project schedules
  can be updated at any time, and new individuals added to the workgroup at
  will . all in a secure environment with people working across the globe,
  inside or outside company firewalls.

  Magi peer collaboration securely delivers significant benefits to Web
  meeting participants. Not only can they share and access information at
  will, but they can also know which other participants are online or
  "present." This enables them to chat and message each other, search across
  other people's Magi environment, and work jointly on relevant documents
  highly productively. With Magi collaboration, in tandem with WebEx
  conferencing, the savings can be huge in terms of travel costs, phone bills,
  and, most importantly, timely completion of projects and tasks.

  "In order to realise the full potential of Web meetings, best-of-breed
  services are needed to eliminate time and geographical boundaries," says
  Bernard Hulme, Tadpole's group chief executive. "The powerful combination
  of Endeavors' Magi and WebEx's communications technologies will assist
  global work teams to better meet critical business goals and deadlines by
  maintaining teamwork momentum within and between Web meetings."

  "WebEx is transforming the way businesses use the Web for sales, marketing,
  training, support and product design," says David Farrington, vice president
  of corporate development at WebEx Communications. "By integrating the
  communications capabilities of the WebEx platform with Endeavors' secure
  collaboration network, Endeavors has created an offering that provides the
  best in synchronous and asynchronous communications."

  About Magi
  Magi Enterprise 3.0, an award-winning web collaboration system, transforms
  today's Web into a highly secure inter- and intra-enterprise collaboration
  network of files and web resources. For the first time, enterprises can
  implement ad-hoc Virtual Private Networks for collaboration very rapidly and
  affordably without disrupting existing applications, networks or work
  practices. Magi Enterprise 3.0 does this by effectively transforming
  unsecured, "read-only" Web networks into two-way trusted and transparent
  collaboration environments, through the use of such features as
  cross-firewall connections, advanced data extraction, an intuitive graphical
  interface, and universal name spaces generating "follow me URLs" for mobile
  professionals.

  About Endeavors Technology, Inc.
  Endeavors Technology, Inc. is a wholly-owned subsidiary of mobile computing
  and network infrastructure vendor Tadpole Technology plc (LSE-TAD,
  www.tadpole.com), which has plants and offices in Irvine and Carlsbad
  (California), and Cambridge, Edinburgh, and Bristol (UK). For further
  information on Endeavors' P2P solutions, call 949-833-2800, email to
  p2p@endeavors.com, or visit the company's website http://www.endeavors.com.

  ends

  For further information, please contact:

  Bernard Hulme, Tadpole Technology - via Patcom Media
  Hugh Paterson, Patcom Media - Tel 0207 987 4888, Email
  hughp@patcom-media.com

  Bullets for Editors

  WebEx
  Web communications services (synchronous): network-based platform for
  delivering highly interactive, visually dynamic Web communications. The
  WebEx platform supports real-time data, voice and video communications.
  WebEx is the only company to design, develop and deploy a global network for
  real-time Web communications.

  Magi
  On and off-line (asynchronous) communication and collaboration: cross
  enterprise search and discovery, transparent security and trust (SSL & PKI),
  2-way web access to files and applications, permanent cross firewall access,
  ad hoc and permanent secure groups, centralized or decentralized control of
  access lists and security privileges, centralized caching of information
  (never lose anything critical), multi-device access to information (desktop,
  laptop, PDA).


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0709.fdcec3f216a4caf2a548940569372d10.eml000066400000000000000000000054761444326627400312110ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 16:26:13 2002
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On Thursday, Sep 19, 2002, at 14:51 Europe/London, Bill Kearney wrote:

>> From the completely unrelated but funny department...
>
> "Talk like a Pirate Day".
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5011-2002Sep11.html
>
> Which is today, of course.
>
> That and 'piratecore' rapping style...
> http://poorman.blogspot.com/2002_09_01_poorman_archive.html#81798893
>
> Anything, just anything, to get us off the geek dating tips topic....
>
> -Bill Kearney
>


Arrr, he be a scurvy dog, that Bill Kearney.


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Ben Hammersley wrote:

>
> On Thursday, Sep 19, 2002, at 14:51 Europe/London, Bill Kearney wrote:
>
>>> From the completely unrelated but funny department...
>>
>>
>> "Talk like a Pirate Day".
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5011-2002Sep11.html
>>
>> Which is today, of course.
>>
>> That and 'piratecore' rapping style...
>> http://poorman.blogspot.com/2002_09_01_poorman_archive.html#81798893
>>
>> Anything, just anything, to get us off the geek dating tips topic....
>>
>> -Bill Kearney
>>
>
>
> Arrr, he be a scurvy dog, that Bill Kearney.

Well, shiver me timbers, but my favorite pirate phrase is missing from 
both of those.Arrr....
and wondering if there's a rap equivalent.
Owen

http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-shi2.htm
*Q AND A SECTION*

*SHIVER MY TIMBERS*

/From Tad Spencer/: "Please could you tell me where the phrase /shiver 
my timbers/ originated?"

This is one of those supposedly nautical expressions that seem to be 
better known through a couple of appearances in fiction than by any 
actual sailors' usage.

It's an exclamation that may allude to a ship striking some rock or 
other obstacle so hard that her timbers shiver, or shake, so implying a 
calamity has occurred. It is first recorded as being used by Captain 
Frederick Marryat in /Jacob Faithful/ in 1835: "I won't thrash you Tom. 
Shiver my timbers if I do".

It has gained a firm place in the language because almost fifty years 
later Robert Louis Stevenson found it to be just the kind of old-salt 
saying that fitted the character of Long John Silver in /Treasure 
Island/: "Cross me, and you'll go where many a good man's gone before 
you ... some to the yard-arm, shiver my timbers, and some by the board, 
and all to feed the fishes". Since then, it's mainly been the preserve 
of second-rate seafaring yarns.



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Geege Schuman wrote:
> less obscure haiku 
> 
> buy a puppy, ro!
> they are chick magnets. master
> ventriloquism.

Reminds me of a Gary Larson cartoon,
woman walking dog, man walking aligator,
dog mostly eaten by aligator, thought cloud
above man's head,
"This is *such* a great way to meet chicks!"

- Joe




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0712.b34faf400b5f68d87b2fb9e83b4c5e80.eml000066400000000000000000000056531444326627400313540ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 19 16:26:21 2002
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Ahhhh Dave Winer..Seems like only yesterday fork was knee deep in
winerrants..hes gone away though...so sad (insert real honest to goshness
tears)

But the past  live on...in the archives...

Remeber when Dave was being betrayed by O'Reilly?
http://www.xent.com/aug00/0725.html


On "closed source" justifications
http://www.xent.com/FoRK-archive/sept00/0346.html


Daves trys to grok fork
http://www.xent.com/FoRK-archive/sept00/0953.html


NT runs just as good as linux...really
http://www.xent.com/aug00/0069.html

There are a few months of this stuff (just google or forkcrawl the
archives) then he got truly fedup with all our  not polite unfresh
thinking and went silent, for the most part.

oh well, back to life.

-tom



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> Chuck Murcko wrote:
>
> > Heh, ten years ago saying the exact same words was most definitely not
> > "parroting the party line".
> >
> > It was even less so thirty years ago. My story remains the same, take
> > it or leave it. I've said the same words to white supremacists as to
> > suburban leftist punks as to homeys as to French Irish, etc. etc.:
> >
> > I don't have to agree with anything you say. I *am* obligated to
> > defend to the death your right to say it. I don't give a rat's ass
> > where you say it, even in France. I don't care where the political
> > pendulum has swung currently.
> >
> > Chuck
>
>
> I had to laugh at Rumsfield yesterday - when he was heckled by
> protestors, he said something like "They couldn't do that in Iraq."
> Meanwhile, from what I could tell, the protestors were being arrested.
>
> Owen

Trying to shoutdown a speaker or being loud and rowdy while someone else is
trying to speak (in the vernacular, 'getting in their face') is rude and
disrespectful.  And persistently getting in someones face is assault, a
criminal offense. If these people have something to say, they can say it
with signs or get their own venue.  And here is something else to chew on...
these protesters are NOT interested in changing anyones mind about what
Rumsfield is saying. How likely are you to change someone's mind by being
rude and disrespectful to them? Is this how to win friends and influence
people? Either these folks are social misfits who have no understanding of
human interactions (else they would try more constructive means to get their
message across) or they are just out to get their rocks off regardless of
how it affects other people, and that is immoral at best and downright evil
at worst.

Bill


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Bill Stoddard wrote:

>>Chuck Murcko wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Heh, ten years ago saying the exact same words was most definitely not
>>>"parroting the party line".
>>>
>>>It was even less so thirty years ago. My story remains the same, take
>>>it or leave it. I've said the same words to white supremacists as to
>>>suburban leftist punks as to homeys as to French Irish, etc. etc.:
>>>
>>>I don't have to agree with anything you say. I *am* obligated to
>>>defend to the death your right to say it. I don't give a rat's ass
>>>where you say it, even in France. I don't care where the political
>>>pendulum has swung currently.
>>>
>>>Chuck
>>>      
>>>
>>I had to laugh at Rumsfield yesterday - when he was heckled by
>>protestors, he said something like "They couldn't do that in Iraq."
>>Meanwhile, from what I could tell, the protestors were being arrested.
>>
>>Owen
>>    
>>
>
>Trying to shoutdown a speaker or being loud and rowdy while someone else is
>trying to speak (in the vernacular, 'getting in their face') is rude and
>disrespectful.  And persistently getting in someones face is assault, a
>criminal offense. If these people have something to say, they can say it
>with signs or get their own venue.  And here is something else to chew on...
>these protesters are NOT interested in changing anyones mind about what
>Rumsfield is saying. How likely are you to change someone's mind by being
>rude and disrespectful to them? Is this how to win friends and influence
>people? Either these folks are social misfits who have no understanding of
>human interactions (else they would try more constructive means to get their
>message across) or they are just out to get their rocks off regardless of
>how it affects other people, and that is immoral at best and downright evil
>at worst.
>
>Bill
>  
>
Polite and respectful protest is acceptable then. No dumping tea in the 
harbour or anything like that.
I think the primary purpose of loud and rowdy protests is to get on 
television, and that the tactics can be
justified as a reaction to a systematic removal of alternative 
viewpoints from that medium. On the other hand,
it was a priceless TV moment. There was nothing resembling assault, and 
the protestors were not in anybody's face
(at least in my understanding of the vernacular).

And no, being rude and disrespectful is not the way to influence 
politicians, but the standard way of using lobbyists and
writing checks is beyond many of us.

Owen







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From: Tom 
To: Bill Stoddard 
Cc: Owen Byrne , "Fork@Xent.Com" 
Subject: RE: Hanson's Sept 11 message in the National Review
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On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Bill Stoddard wrote:
--]How likely are you to change someone's mind by being
--]rude and disrespectful to them? Is this how to win friends and influence
--]people?

Point the first, I doubt if they are trying to change Rumsy's mind but
rather to show others that there is a vocal and violent opposition to his
views. With such flagrant showings of opposition there would be more
coverage of the opposing ideas and thus the spreading of the dissenting
meme. A viri need not comply with the wishes of the attacked host, rather
the host had better make some antibodies or learn to adapt.

Point the second. Historicaly the "in yer face" mode of confrontation has
been used to gain popular support and to grow from seeds "grass roots"
movements. Witness the big bold "in yer face" signature of Hancock on the
"in yer  face" Declaration of the american colonies to the governing
powers of england. Witness also the chicago seven, Others will follow in
examplare  form upon digging.

Now point the third, is it annoying? Yes, and if your annoyed then the "in
yer facers" have done thier job. Sad to say the polite persnikiters are
teh very fule the "in yer facers" hope to ignite. If your burning, your
being used.

Pointed the personal...The politics of the polite are more often the
refuge of backstabings,  closed mouth recourlessness and hypocritcal
behavoirs. Id rather hear what those who oppose me have to say than
quietly be knifed by the slow hand of the coward.



Seek not the polite or impolite but rather the reasons why.


-tom



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Owen Byrne writes:
> [quoting http://www.quinion.com/words/qa/qa-shi2.htm]
> *SHIVER MY TIMBERS*
> 
> /From Tad Spencer/: "Please could you tell me where the phrase /shiver 
> my timbers/ originated?"
> 
> This is one of those supposedly nautical expressions that seem to be 
> better known through a couple of appearances in fiction than by any 
> actual sailors' usage.
> 
> It's an exclamation that may allude to a ship striking some rock or 
> other obstacle so hard that her timbers shiver, or shake, so implying a 
> calamity has occurred. It is first recorded as being used by Captain 
> Frederick Marryat in /Jacob Faithful/ in 1835: "I won't thrash you Tom. 
> Shiver my timbers if I do".

It seems implausible to me that "shiver" here means "to shake"; I don't
recall seeing the word used transitively in that sense, and web1913
lists that sense as "v. i.", or intransitive.  The transitive sense of
"shiver", which we no longer use but which people used widely in the
1800s (web1913 doesn't even list it as archaic or obsolete), means
"to shatter into splinters, normally with a blow".

Shivering a boat's timbers, of course, leaves you with no boat.
(Shivering some of them, which will happen if you hit a rock hard enough,
leaves you with a sinking boat.)

So, "Shiver my timbers if I do," can be reasonably interpreted as a more
vivid way of saying, "May I die suddenly if I do."  The interpretation
suggested by Quinion, "May my boat be damaged," neither makes as much
sense in context nor obeys the normal rules of grammar.

I've sent a copy of this to Quinion.


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From: "Bill Stoddard" 
To: "Tom" 
Cc: "Owen Byrne" ,
	"Fork@Xent.Com" 
Subject: RE: Hanson's Sept 11 message in the National Review
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> On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Bill Stoddard wrote:
> --]How likely are you to change someone's mind by being
> --]rude and disrespectful to them? Is this how to win friends and
> influence
> --]people?
>
> Point the first, I doubt if they are trying to change Rumsy's mind but
> rather to show others that there is a vocal and violent opposition to his
> views. With such flagrant showings of opposition there would be more
> coverage of the opposing ideas and thus the spreading of the dissenting
> meme. A viri need not comply with the wishes of the attacked host, rather
> the host had better make some antibodies or learn to adapt.
>
> Point the second. Historicaly the "in yer face" mode of confrontation has
> been used to gain popular support and to grow from seeds "grass roots"
> movements. Witness the big bold "in yer face" signature of Hancock on the
> "in yer  face" Declaration of the american colonies to the governing
> powers of england. Witness also the chicago seven, Others will follow in
> examplare  form upon digging.
>
> Now point the third, is it annoying? Yes, and if your annoyed then the "in
> yer facers" have done thier job. Sad to say the polite persnikiters are
> teh very fule the "in yer facers" hope to ignite. If your burning, your
> being used.
>
> Pointed the personal...The politics of the polite are more often the
> refuge of backstabings,  closed mouth recourlessness and hypocritcal
> behavoirs. Id rather hear what those who oppose me have to say than
> quietly be knifed by the slow hand of the coward.
>
>
>
> Seek not the polite or impolite but rather the reasons why.
>
>
> -tom

Good points all but they don't apply in this case.  Someone is speaking and
a group of selfish bastards only interested in getting their rocks off are
trying to shout him down (they are doing it because 'it's good for the
soul'. Kind like Chuckie Manson doing the stuff he did cause 'it was good
for his soul'). Unprincipled and evil. It's got nothing to do with throwing
tea in the harbor or the DoI.

Bill


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What I meant was that neither he nor anyone else has any *authority* to 
say something can or can't be published, and make that stick, at least 
in the US, and from some descriptions, France. Of course he can say 
anything he wants. And I can choose to ignore it, or not. Works both 
ways.

Fscking semantics.

Chuck

On Thursday, September 19, 2002, at 06:41 AM, Russell Turpin wrote:

> Robert Harley:
>>> BTW, I wasn't aware that the 1st Amendment mandated that crap must be 
>>> FoRKed.
>
> Chuck Murcko :
>> It doesn't, BTW. It says the right to free speech shall not be 
>> abridged. That means *you* can't say anything may not be FoRKed or 
>> printed or whatever.
>
> Actually, it means just the opposite. The first
> amendment guarantees Harley's right to say just
> that. For the outlets where he has editorial
> control, it even guarantees his right to CENSOR
> content published through those outlets. The
> first amendment doesn't limit Harley's speech,
> and it is neutral with regard to the selection
> policies of FoRK and other private venues.
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>


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From: Tom 
To: Bill Stoddard 
Cc: Owen Byrne , "Fork@Xent.Com" 
Subject: RE: Hanson's Sept 11 message in the National Review
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On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Bill Stoddard wrote:

--]Good points all but they don't apply in this case.  Someone is speaking and
--]a group of selfish bastards only interested in getting their rocks off are
--]trying to shout him down (they are doing it because 'it's good for the
--]soul'. Kind like Chuckie Manson doing the stuff he did cause 'it was good
--]for his soul'). Unprincipled and evil. It's got nothing to do with throwing
--]tea in the harbor or the DoI.


History is written by the victors. If the rabble can put forth there ideas
they will be tempered in the pages of yore as "strong willed voices
decrying the obvious injustices of the day"

Once again, look at the Chicago 7, a loud and rude a crowd of selfish
pricks as you were want to find in the day. History of course colors them
with times great blur filter. The jagged bits that , at the time, were
called rude and obnoxious are now seen as a stab of justive doing in the
sideof the ill pathed goverment.




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0720.9b70b163d69018e7aee73cf86459265d.eml000066400000000000000000000065441444326627400310700ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep 20 11:32:40 2002
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> For my part, I'd rather people didn't use FoRK as a place in which to dump an 
> expression of their political beliefs.

I'll second that, although with emphasis
upon /dump/, rather than on /political/.

I don't mind if people advocate nuking
gay baby whales for jesus, if they can
make a good, original, argument for it.

I do mind if someone should attempt to
further the notion that 1+1=2, merely
by cut-and-pasting a few pages of W&R.

"New bits" are not a temporal property;
we create them when we add context or
clarification to the old bits of others'
thoughts.

-Dave

::::::::::::

>     ... being rude and disrespectful is not the way to influence 
> politicians, but the standard way of using lobbyists and
> writing checks is beyond many of us.

The standard way has some extreme precedents:

> Q: When was the Roman empire sold, and who bought it?
>
> A: On March 28th, 193 AD, the Roman empire was auctioned off by the
> Praetorian guards to the wealthy senator Didius Julianus for the price
> of 6250 drachms per soldier.
(as found in ,
quoting Gibbon)

Now, an economist might argue that selling
offices is the most efficient way to fill
them (what would Coase say?), but wouldn't
that convince everyone (but the supporters
of plutocracy) that efficiency is not the
primary virtue of politics?


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0721.9798746ace52b039545cfcb5dd5df9fa.eml000066400000000000000000000054731444326627400313740ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep 20 11:32:42 2002
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From: "Mr. FoRK" 
To: 
References: <20020919171804.GA18065@canonical.org>
Subject: Re: Avast there matey
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Kragen Sitaker" 

> > It's an exclamation that may allude to a ship striking some rock or
> > other obstacle so hard that her timbers shiver, or shake, so implying a
> > calamity has occurred. It is first recorded as being used by Captain
> > Frederick Marryat in /Jacob Faithful/ in 1835: "I won't thrash you Tom.
> > Shiver my timbers if I do".
I think it went like this: "I won't thrash you Tom, if you shiver my
timber..."
Or maybe that was just the butt pirates...


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0722.8aba37e84c5a58cdfe72fc9ed03089ae.eml000066400000000000000000000064551444326627400315230ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep 20 11:32:44 2002
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To: Rodent of Unusual Size 
Cc: Flatware or Road Kill? 
Subject: Re: boycotting yahoo
References: 
    <3D885FE0.37C1C9EA@Golux.Com>
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
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Just tried smartgroups: The layout of pages is pretty challenging to
use quickly, but the most interesting aspect is that once you are in,
there is no way to get out.  You can unsubscribe yourself as the sole
member of a group, but you cannot delete the group.

Or if you can, I couldn't find it before deleting myself, and now it's
invisible to me.  Another interesting thing: Security forms are reset
to full-public settings each time you load them, rather than set from
your current settings.

All in all, I wasn't impressed and have stayed with the Yahooligans
for another run.

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
  "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0723.e326ddd50487b33418a053b67df5ab5d.eml000066400000000000000000000051301444326627400311700ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep 20 11:32:46 2002
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From: Tom 
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Subject: Re: Avast there matey
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On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Mr. FoRK wrote:
--]I think it went like this: "I won't thrash you Tom, if you shiver my
--]timber..."
--]Or maybe that was just the butt pirates...
--]

How did I get wrangled into this thread?
Do I really need to make pewp deck jokes at this point.

Arrrrg ye mateys, now best ya be off tis topic or Ill hoist my jib and
hope for a stiff wind. Arrrg when Im happy and arrrg when Im not.



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0724.789e078e8d5286dcb7da0df2f47e6886.eml000066400000000000000000000064741444326627400312560ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep 20 11:32:49 2002
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On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 11:11:47AM -0400, Bill Stoddard wrote:
> people? Either these folks are social misfits who have no understanding of
> human interactions (else they would try more constructive means to get their
> message across) or they are just out to get their rocks off regardless of
> how it affects other people, and that is immoral at best and downright evil
> at worst.

Are you kidding? It was fucking BRILLIANT. Do you know what exposure that got
them? They sat perfectly so that the cameras could focus on the mildly 
exasperated Rumsfeld and their "UN Inspections not war" banner. That picture
will be dominating the news cycles in China, Iraq, Russia, Germany, and 
France, at least. For goodness sakes, you're arguing about it on FoRK. In 
politics by sound-bite, those two rude hags kicked ass and took names.

For the record, I don't think they even got arrested, which is a shame. It
is part of the game -- make an ass of yourself, get your point on the nightly
news, spend a couple days in the clink for disorderly.

-- 
njl


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0725.2c1c01215a3c8c4936f8cfea181092d1.eml000066400000000000000000000060461444326627400311060ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep 20 11:32:51 2002
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: 19 Sep 2002 22:18:46 -0400
From: Perry E. Metzger 
To: cryptography@wasabisystems.com
Subject: Sun donates elliptic curve code to OpenSSL?


According to this:

http://www.sun.com/smi/Press/sunflash/2002-09/sunflash.20020919.8.html

Sun is donating some elliptic curve code to the OpenSSL project. Does
anyone know details that they would care to share on the nature of the
donation?

-- 
Perry E. Metzger		perry@piermont.com

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0726.b9cf1bbdedddc254ac0a78e9fdb22a8e.eml000066400000000000000000000046661444326627400320100ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep 20 16:15:28 2002
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In a message dated 9/19/2002 3:45:45 PM, dl@silcom.com writes:

>I don't mind if people advocate nuking
>gay baby whales for jesus, if they can
>make a good, original, argument for it.


I can't imagine any other kind of argument for nuking gay baby whales for 
jesus. But do you mean nuking baby gay whales who are for jesus; or nuking 
baby gay whales for Jesus's sake?

splitting hairs with a FoRK,

Tom


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0727.a398f36f56d924dc775138b61dffbfb2.eml000066400000000000000000000113321444326627400313040ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep 20 16:15:31 2002
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From: Gregory Alan Bolcer 
Subject: Sun
To: FoRK 
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Well, it looks like Sun are going ahead with
their ubiquitous computing plans without Mithril. 

Greg

Reuters Market News
  Sun Micro Outlines Roadmap for Managing Networks 
  Friday September 20, 5:00 am ET 
  By Peter Henderson 

  SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Computer maker Sun Microsystems Inc. on Thursday
  said it would create in a few years a network environment that will be as
  straightforward to handle as a single machine, a strategy it calls N1.

  It laid out a road map for a new layer of intelligent software and systems that will meld
  unwieldy networks into easy-to-use systems, a goal similar to those of most rivals
  making computers which manage networks. 
  EMC Corp. announced this week software aimed at allowing users to manage storage
  resources as a pool. Hewlett-Packard Co has a Utility Data Center, designed for
  broader management. International Business Machines Corp's project eLiza is working
  to make computers "self-healing" when systems break.

  "Applications still have to run zeroes and ones on some computing engine but the
  whole idea behind N1 is you stop thinking about that. You don't think about what box
  it is running on," Sun Vice President Steve MacKay, head of the N1 program, said in an
  interview on the sidelines of a Sun user conference. 

  Many industry executives see computer power eventually being sold like power or
  water, as a utility that can be turned on or off, in whatever volume one wants whenever
  needed. 
  For that to happen computers must be tied together seamlessly, rather than cobbling
  them together with tenuous links, as most networks do today, experts say. There are
  still major barriers, though, such as communications standards for machines from
  different vendors to interoperate closely. 
  Sun promised to deliver a "virtualization engine" that would let administrators look at
  their entire network as a pool by the end of the year. Network administrators today
  often have no automatic system to report what is in the network. 

  "It'll tell you what you have and how it is laid out," promised MacKay
  The second stage, beginning in 2003, would allow users to identify a service, such as
  online banking, and allocate resources for them with a few clicks, Sun said. 
  Finally, in 2004, Sun's software should allow networks to change uses of resources on
  the fly in response to changing needs, such as a bank assuring quicker online response
  time for priority users, the company said.


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From: "Bill Stoddard" 
To: "Ned Jackson Lovely" ,
	"Fork@Xent.Com" 
Subject: RE: Hanson's Sept 11 message in the National Review
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> On Thu, Sep 19, 2002 at 11:11:47AM -0400, Bill Stoddard wrote:
> > people? Either these folks are social misfits who have no
> understanding of
> > human interactions (else they would try more constructive means
> to get their
> > message across) or they are just out to get their rocks off
> regardless of
> > how it affects other people, and that is immoral at best and
> downright evil
> > at worst.
>
> Are you kidding? It was fucking BRILLIANT. Do you know what
> exposure that got
> them? They sat perfectly so that the cameras could focus on the mildly
> exasperated Rumsfeld and their "UN Inspections not war" banner.

What I am specifically referring to is protesters shouting down speakers or
making so much noise that it interferes with the speaker. That's wrong,
immoral and unethical no matter what the political bent of the speakers and
the protesters. Rowdy protests in their own venue (on a college campus or
some of the commons areas of DC) is perfectly fine by me. Waving signs to
get attention is fine.

> That picture
> will be dominating the news cycles in China, Iraq, Russia, Germany, and
> France, at least. For goodness sakes, you're arguing about it on FoRK. In
> politics by sound-bite, those two rude hags kicked ass and took names.
>
> For the record, I don't think they even got arrested, which is a shame.

Well, Owen implied the protesters were arrested. Was he just jacking himself
off at the expense of other people? Exactly why is it a shame that they were
not arrested? Think about what you are saying and what you are telegraphing
about your state of mind here. You WANT people to do bad things (ie, police
arresting peaceful protesters) if it can help you further your cause? That
attitude just sucks. You have no moral ground to stand on if that is what
you believe.

> It is part of the game -- make an ass of yourself, get your point on
> the nightly
> news, spend a couple days in the clink for disorderly.

Sure, just don't whine about getting arrested if you make it a point to get
in someone's face.

One other comment... Most of the people that are protesting against taking
out the Iraqi dictator wouldn't give a rats ass if a nuke went off in NYC.
They simply wouldn't care so why in the hell should the Americal public
listen to them on matters of national security?

So enlighten me, exactly why shouldn't Hussein be taken out? And if your
answr boils down to "i don't give a shit about what happens to the US", you
can kiss my ass :-)

Bill


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From: "John Hall" 
To: 
Subject: RE:  The War Prayer
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I'm sure Patton used it.

I'm all for using it in the coming war with Iraq.

Yet I'd be queasy about doing it in the Philippines circa 1905, which
was his point.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of R.
A.
> Hettinga
> Sent: Monday, September 16, 2002 9:44 PM
> To: Digital Bearer Settlement List; fork@example.com
> Subject:  The War Prayer
> 
> 
> --- begin forwarded text
> 
> 
> Status: RO
> Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 14:57:27 -0700
> To: nettime-l@bbs.thing.net
> From: Phil Duncan 
> Subject:  The War Prayer
> Sender: nettime-l-request@bbs.thing.net
> Reply-To: Phil Duncan 
> 
> The following prayer is from a story by Mark Twain, and was quoted by
> Lewis
> Laphan in the October issue of Harper's magazine. It occurs at the
very
> end
> of an excellent article which I recommend to you.
> 
> In the story, an old man enters a church where the congregation has
been
> listening to an heroic sermon about "the glory to be won in battle by
> young
> patriots armed with the love of God." He usurps the pulpit and prays
the
> following:
> 
> "O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreads with
our
> shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of
their
> patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the
shrieks of
> their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble
homes
> with
> a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending
> widows
> with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with their
little
> children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in
rags
> and
> hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames in summer and the icy
winds of
> winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the
refuge
> of
> the grave and denied it -- for our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast
their
> hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make
heavy
> their
> steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the
> blood
> of their wounded feet! We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is
the
> Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all
that
> are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts.
Amen."
> 
> Twain wrote the story, "The War Prayer," in 1905 during the American
> occupation of the Philippines, but the story wasn't printed until
1923,
> thirteen years after his death, because the editors thought it
> "unsuitable"
> for publication at the time it was written.
> 
> #  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
> #   is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> #  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> #  more info: majordomo@bbs.thing.net and "info nettime-l" in the msg
body
> #  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
> 
> --- end forwarded text
> 
> 
> --
> -----------------
> R. A. Hettinga 
> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
> "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
> [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
> experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


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Subject: sed /s/United States/Roman Empire/g
From: Rohit Khare 
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> A world where some live in comfort and plenty, while half of the human 
> race lives on less than $2 a day, is neither just nor stable.

Absolutely correct. Perhaps the most fundamental thing to realize about 
life on Earth today.

The following is a fascinating document of official Government policy 
that bears close reading. It is the aspirations of a wonderful nation in 
an imperfect world.

>  The war on terrorism is not a clash of civilizations. It does, 
> however, reveal the clash inside a civilization, a battle for the 
> future of the Muslim world. This is a struggle of ideas and this is an 
> area where America must excel.

I was recently at a lecture about the surprising success of Radio Sawa, 
our new music-and-news channel for 15-30 year old Arabs. It's #1 in 
practically every market it's entered, nearing 90% listenership in 
Amman. And it's even beginning to be trusted for news, well past BBC and 
taking share from every other government broadcaster.

It is as hard to imagine America losing a war of ideas in the long-term 
as it is to imagine America making any headway at all in the short term.

Many of you may disagree, but I found the document below surprisingly 
centrist. If you know the code, you can hear clearly partisan tones, re: 
ICC, Taiwan Relations Act, etc. But, still, this is as much a Democratic 
platform as not. Africa and AIDS take up more mindshare than I feared 
they might.

As you read, replace "United States" with "Roman Empire" and it may make 
as much sense, in the long view of history. I don't know how proud to be 
about that, but it is telling. Sometime I daydream that the President 
might sit down with the nation with Perotista flip charts and explain to 
our citizens the sheer vastness of our 700+ military installations 
overseas and what they do for us. It would be a powerful education on 
how engaged we are in the world around us.

Heck, I'd love to see a real-time map of Federal expenditures around the 
globe, a softly glowing necklace of embassies, carriers, arctic research 
stations, hotels, golf courses, warehouses, libraries, clinics and all 
the rest of the influence a trillion dollars here or there can buy.

Of course, this still doesn't leave me any more comfortable with the 
real news in this document: the Bush Doctrine for pre-emptive strikes. 
I'd sooner repeal the Church amendments on covert action than permit 
such a principle to be loosed upon the world.

Rohit

-----------------------------------------------------
September 20, 2002

Full Text: Bush's National Security Strategy

Following is the full text of President Bush's new national security 
strategy. The document, entitled "The National Security Strategy of the 
United States," will soon be transmitted to Congress as a declaration of 
the Administration's policy.

INTRODUCTION

THE great struggles of the twentieth century between liberty and 
totalitarianism ended with a decisive victory for the forces of 
freedom -- and a single sustainable model for national success: freedom, 
democracy, and free enterprise. In the twenty-first century, only 
nations that share a commitment to protecting basic human rights and 
guaranteeing political and economic freedom will be able to unleash the 
potential of their people and assure their future prosperity. People 
everywhere want to say what they think; choose who will govern them; 
worship as they please; educate their children -- male and female; own 
property; and enjoy the benefits of their labor. These values of freedom 
are right and true for every person, in every society -- and the duty of 
protecting these values against their enemies is the common calling of 
freedom-loving people across the globe and across the ages.

Today, the United States enjoys a position of unparalleled military 
strength and great economic and political influence. In keeping with our 
heritage and principles, we do not use our strength to press for 
unilateral advantage. We seek instead to create a balance of power that 
favors human freedom: conditions in which all nations and all societies 
can choose for themselves the rewards and challenges of political and 
economic liberty. By making the world safer, we allow the people of the 
world to make their own lives better. We will defend this just peace 
against threats from terrorists and tyrants. We will preserve the peace 
by building good relations among the great powers. We will extend the 
peace by encouraging free and open societies on every continent.

Defending our Nation against its enemies is the first and fundamental 
commitment of the Federal Government. Today, that task has changed 
dramatically. Enemies in the past needed great armies and great 
industrial capabilities to endanger America. Now, shadowy networks of 
individuals can bring great chaos and suffering to our shores for less 
than it costs to purchase a single tank. Terrorists are organized to 
penetrate open societies and to turn the power of modern technologies 
against us.

To defeat this threat we must make use of every tool in our arsenal -- 
from better homeland defenses and law enforcement to intelligence and 
cutting off terrorist financing. The war against terrorists of global 
reach is a global enterprise of uncertain duration. America will help 
nations that need our assistance in combating terror. And America will 
hold to account nations that are compromised by terror -- because the 
allies of terror are the enemies of civilization. The United States and 
countries cooperating with us must not allow the terrorists to develop 
new home bases. Together, we will seek to deny them sanctuary at every 
turn.

The gravest danger our Nation faces lies at the crossroads of radicalism 
and technology. Our enemies have openly declared that they are seeking 
weapons of mass destruction, and evidence indicates that they are doing 
so with determination. The United States will not allow these efforts to 
succeed. We will build defenses against ballistic missiles and other 
means of delivery. We will cooperate with other nations to deny, 
contain, and curtail our enemies' efforts to acquire dangerous 
technologies. And, as a matter of common sense and self-defense, America 
will act against such emerging threats before they are fully formed. We 
cannot defend America and our friends by hoping for the best. So we must 
be prepared to defeat our enemies' plans, using the best intelligence 
and proceeding with deliberation. History will judge harshly those who 
saw this coming danger but failed to act. In the new world we have 
entered, the only path to safety is the path of action.

As we defend the peace, we will also take advantage of an historic 
opportunity to preserve the peace. Today, the international community 
has the best chance since the rise of the nation-state in the 
seventeenth century to build a world where great powers compete in peace 
instead of continually prepare for war. Today, the world's great powers 
find ourselves on the same side -- united by common dangers of terrorist 
violence and chaos. The United States will build on these common 
interests to promote global security. We are also increasingly united by 
common values. Russia is in the midst of a hopeful transition, reaching 
for its democratic future and a partner in the war on terror. Chinese 
leaders are discovering that economic freedom is the only source of 
national wealth. In time, they will find that social and political 
freedom is the only source of national greatness. America will encourage 
the advancement of democracy and economic openness in both nations, 
because these are the best foundations for domestic stability and 
international order. We will strongly resist aggression from other great 
powers -- even as we welcome their peaceful pursuit of prosperity, 
trade, and cultural advancement.

Finally, the United States will use this moment of opportunity to extend 
the benefits of freedom across the globe. We will actively work to bring 
the hope of democracy, development, free markets, and free trade to 
every corner of the world. The events of September 11, 2001, taught us 
that weak states, like Afghanistan, can pose as great a danger to our 
national interests as strong states. Poverty does not make poor people 
into terrorists and murderers. Yet poverty, weak institutions, and 
corruption can make weak states vulnerable to terrorist networks and 
drug cartels within their borders.

The United States will stand beside any nation determined to build a 
better future by seeking the rewards of liberty for its people. Free 
trade and free markets have proven their ability to lift whole societies 
out of poverty -- so the United States will work with individual 
nations, entire regions, and the entire global trading community to 
build a world that trades in freedom and therefore grows in prosperity. 
The United States will deliver greater development assistance through 
the New Millennium Challenge Account to nations that govern justly, 
invest in their people, and encourage economic freedom. We will also 
continue to lead the world in efforts to reduce the terrible toll of 
AIDS and other infectious diseases.

In building a balance of power that favors freedom, the United States is 
guided by the conviction that all nations have important 
responsibilities. Nations that enjoy freedom must actively fight terror. 
Nations that depend on international stability must help prevent the 
spread of weapons of mass destruction. Nations that seek international 
aid must govern themselves wisely, so that aid is well spent. For 
freedom to thrive, accountability must be expected and required.

We are also guided by the conviction that no nation can build a safer, 
better world alone. Alliances and multilateral institutions can multiply 
the strength of freedom-loving nations. The United States is committed 
to lasting institutions like the United Nations, the World Trade 
Organization, the Organization of American States, and NATO as well as 
other long-standing alliances. Coalitions of the willing can augment 
these permanent institutions. In all cases, international obligations 
are to be taken seriously. They are not to be undertaken symbolically to 
rally support for an ideal without furthering its attainment.

Freedom is the non-negotiable demand of human dignity; the birthright of 
every person -- in every civilization. Throughout history, freedom has 
been threatened by war and terror; it has been challenged by the 
clashing wills of powerful states and the evil designs of tyrants; and 
it has been tested by widespread poverty and disease. Today, humanity 
holds in its hands the opportunity to further freedom's triumph over all 
these foes. The United States welcomes our responsibility to lead in 
this great mission.

I. Overview of America's International Strategy


"Our Nation's cause has always been larger than our Nation's defense. We 
fight, as we always fight, for a just peace -- a peace that favors 
liberty. We will defend the peace against the threats from terrorists 
and tyrants. We will preserve the peace by building good relations among 
the great powers. And we will extend the peace by encouraging free and 
open societies on every continent."






President Bush
West Point, New York
June 1, 2002



The United States possesses unprecedented -- and unequaled -- strength 
and influence in the world. Sustained by faith in the principles of 
liberty, and the value of a free society, this position comes with 
unparalleled responsibilities, obligations, and opportunity. The great 
strength of this nation must be used to promote a balance of power that 
favors freedom.

For most of the twentieth century, the world was divided by a great 
struggle over ideas: destructive totalitarian visions versus freedom and 
equality.

That great struggle is over. The militant visions of class, nation, and 
race which promised utopia and delivered misery have been defeated and 
discredited. America is now threatened less by conquering states than we 
are by failing ones. We are menaced less by fleets and armies than by 
catastrophic technologies in the hands of the embittered few. We must 
defeat these threats to our Nation, allies, and friends.

This is also a time of opportunity for America. We will work to 
translate this moment of influence into decades of peace, prosperity, 
and liberty. The U.S. national security strategy will be based on a 
distinctly American internationalism that reflects the union of our 
values and our national interests. The aim of this strategy is to help 
make the world not just safer but better. Our goals on the path to 
progress are clear: political and economic freedom, peaceful relations 
with other states, and respect for human dignity.

And this path is not America's alone. It is open to all.

To achieve these goals, the United States will:

*	champion aspirations for human dignity;

*	strengthen alliances to defeat global terrorism and work to prevent 
attacks against us and our friends;

*	work with others to defuse regional conflicts;

*	prevent our enemies from threatening us, our allies, and our 
friends, with weapons of mass destruction;

*	ignite a new era of global economic growth through free markets and 
free trade;

*	expand the circle of development by opening societies and building 
the infrastructure of democracy;

*	develop agendas for cooperative action with other main centers of 
global power; and

*	transform America's national security institutions to meet the 
challenges and opportunities of the twenty-first century.


II. Champion Aspirations for Human Dignity


"Some worry that it is somehow undiplomatic or impolite to speak the 
language of right and wrong. I disagree. Different circumstances require 
different methods, but not different moralities."





President Bush
West Point, New York
June 1, 2002



In pursuit of our goals, our first imperative is to clarify what we 
stand for: the United States must defend liberty and justice because 
these principles are right and true for all people everywhere. No nation 
owns these aspirations, and no nation is exempt from them. Fathers and 
mothers in all societies want their children to be educated and to live 
free from poverty and violence. No people on earth yearn to be 
oppressed, aspire to servitude, or eagerly await the midnight knock of 
the secret police.

America must stand firmly for the nonnegotiable demands of human 
dignity: the rule of law; limits on the absolute power of the state; 
free speech; freedom of worship; equal justice; respect for women; 
religious and ethnic tolerance; and respect for private property.

These demands can be met in many ways. America's constitution has served 
us well. Many other nations, with different histories and cultures, 
facing different circumstances, have successfully incorporated these 
core principles into their own systems of governance. History has not 
been kind to those nations which ignored or flouted the rights and 
aspirations of their people.

Our own history is a long struggle to live up to our ideals. But even in 
our worst moments, the principles enshrined in the Declaration of 
Independence were there to guide us. As a result, America is not just a 
stronger, but is a freer and more just society.

Today, these ideals are a lifeline to lonely defenders of liberty. And 
when openings arrive, we can encourage change -- as we did in central 
and eastern Europe between 1989 and 1991, or in Belgrade in 2000. When 
we see democratic processes take hold among our friends in Taiwan or in 
the Republic of Korea, and see elected leaders replace generals in Latin 
America and Africa, we see examples of how authoritarian systems can 
evolve, marrying local history and traditions with the principles we all 
cherish.

Embodying lessons from our past and using the opportunity we have today, 
the national security strategy of the United States must start from 
these core beliefs and look outward for possibilities to expand liberty.

Our principles will guide our government's decisions about international 
cooperation, the character of our foreign assistance, and the allocation 
of resources. They will guide our actions and our words in international 
bodies.

We will:

*	speak out honestly about violations of the nonnegotiable demands of 
human dignity using our voice and vote in international institutions to 
advance freedom;

*	use our foreign aid to promote freedom and support those who 
struggle non-violently for it, ensuring that nations moving toward 
democracy are rewarded for the steps they take;

*	make freedom and the development of democratic institutions key 
themes in our bilateral relations, seeking solidarity and cooperation 
from other democracies while we press governments that deny human rights 
to move toward a better future; and

*	take special efforts to promote freedom of religion and conscience 
and defend it from encroachment by repressive governments.


We will champion the cause of human dignity and oppose those who resist 
it.

III. Strengthen Alliances to Defeat Global Terrorism and Work to Prevent 
Attacks Against Us and Our Friends


"Just three days removed from these events, Americans do not yet have 
the distance of history. But our responsibility to history is already 
clear: to answer these attacks and rid the world of evil. War has been 
waged against us by stealth and deceit and murder. This nation is 
peaceful, but fierce when stirred to anger. The conflict was begun on 
the timing and terms of others. It will end in a way, and at an hour, of 
our choosing."





President Bush
Washington, D.C. (The National Cathedral)
September 14, 2001



The United States of America is fighting a war against terrorists of 
global reach. The enemy is not a single political regime or person or 
religion or ideology. The enemy is terrorism -- premeditated, 
politically motivated violence perpetrated against innocents.

In many regions, legitimate grievances prevent the emergence of a 
lasting peace. Such grievances deserve to be, and must be, addressed 
within a political process. But no cause justifies terror. The United 
States will make no concessions to terrorist demands and strike no deals 
with them. We make no distinction between terrorists and those who 
knowingly harbor or provide aid to them.

The struggle against global terrorism is different from any other war in 
our history. It will be fought on many fronts against a particularly 
elusive enemy over an extended period of time. Progress will come 
through the persistent accumulation of successes -- some seen, some 
unseen.

Today our enemies have seen the results of what civilized nations can, 
and will, do against regimes that harbor, support, and use terrorism to 
achieve their political goals. Afghanistan has been liberated; coalition 
forces continue to hunt down the Taliban and al-Qaida. But it is not 
only this battlefield on which we will engage terrorists. Thousands of 
trained terrorists remain at large with cells in North America, South 
America, Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and across Asia.

Our priority will be first to disrupt and destroy terrorist 
organizations of global reach and attack their leadership; command, 
control, and communications; material support; and finances. This will 
have a disabling effect upon the terrorists' ability to plan and operate.

We will continue to encourage our regional partners to take up a 
coordinated effort that isolates the terrorists. Once the regional 
campaign localizes the threat to a particular state, we will help ensure 
the state has the military, law enforcement, political, and financial 
tools necessary to finish the task.

The United States will continue to work with our allies to disrupt the 
financing of terrorism. We will identify and block the sources of 
funding for terrorism, freeze the assets of terrorists and those who 
support them, deny terrorists access to the international financial 
system, protect legitimate charities from being abused by terrorists, 
and prevent the movement of terrorists' assets through alternative 
financial networks.

However, this campaign need not be sequential to be effective, the 
cumulative effect across all regions will help achieve the results we 
seek.

We will disrupt and destroy terrorist organizations by:

*	direct and continuous action using all the elements of national and 
international power. Our immediate focus will be those terrorist 
organizations of global reach and any terrorist or state sponsor of 
terrorism which attempts to gain or use weapons of mass destruction 
(WMD) or their precursors;

*	defending the United States, the American people, and our interests 
at home and abroad by identifying and destroying the threat before it 
reaches our borders. While the United States will constantly strive to 
enlist the support of the international community, we will not hesitate 
to act alone, if necessary, to exercise our right of self-defense by 
acting preemptively against such terrorists, to prevent them from doing 
harm against our people and our country; and

*	denying further sponsorship, support, and sanctuary to terrorists 
by convincing or compelling states to accept their sovereign 
responsibilities.


We will also wage a war of ideas to win the battle against international 
terrorism. This includes:

*	using the full influence of the United States, and working closely 
with allies and friends, to make clear that all acts of terrorism are 
illegitimate so that terrorism will be viewed in the same light as 
slavery, piracy, or genocide: behavior that no respectable government 
can condone or support and all must oppose;

*	supporting moderate and modern government, especially in the Muslim 
world, to ensure that the conditions and ideologies that promote 
terrorism do not find fertile ground in any nation;

*	diminishing the underlying conditions that spawn terrorism by 
enlisting the international community to focus its efforts and resources 
on areas most at risk; and

*	using effective public diplomacy to promote the free flow of 
information and ideas to kindle the hopes and aspirations of freedom of 
those in societies ruled by the sponsors of global terrorism.


While we recognize that our best defense is a good offense we are also 
strengthening America's homeland security to protect against and deter 
attack.

This Administration has proposed the largest government reorganization 
since the Truman Administration created the National Security Council 
and the Department of Defense. Centered on a new Department of Homeland 
Security and including a new unified military command and a fundamental 
reordering of the FBI, our comprehensive plan to secure the homeland 
encompasses every level of government and the cooperation of the public 
and the private sector.

This strategy will turn adversity into opportunity. For example, 
emergency management systems will be better able to cope not just with 
terrorism but with all hazards. Our medical system will be strengthened 
to manage not just bioterror, but all infectious diseases and 
mass-casualty dangers. Our border controls will not just stop 
terrorists, but improve the efficient movement of legitimate traffic.

While our focus is protecting America, we know that to defeat terrorism 
in today's globalized world we need support from our allies and friends. 
Wherever possible, the United States will rely on regional organizations 
and state powers to meet their obligations to fight terrorism. Where 
governments find the fight against terrorism beyond their capacities, we 
will match their willpower and their resources with whatever help we and 
our allies can provide.

As we pursue the terrorists in Afghanistan, we will continue to work 
with international organizations such as the United Nations, as well as 
non-governmental organizations, and other countries to provide the 
humanitarian, political, economic, and security assistance necessary to 
rebuild Afghanistan so that it will never again abuse its people, 
threaten its neighbors, and provide a haven for terrorists

In the war against global terrorism, we will never forget that we are 
ultimately fighting for our democratic values and way of life. Freedom 
and fear are at war, and there will be no quick or easy end to this 
conflict. In leading the campaign against terrorism, we are forging new, 
productive international relationships and redefining existing ones in 
ways that meet the challenges of the twenty-first century.

IV. Work with Others To Defuse Regional Conflicts


"We build a world of justice, or we will live in a world of coercion. 
The magnitude of our shared responsibilities makes our disagreements 
look so small."





President Bush
Berlin, Germany
May 23, 2002



Concerned nations must remain actively engaged in critical regional 
disputes to avoid explosive escalation and minimize human suffering. In 
an increasingly interconnected world, regional crisis can strain our 
alliances, rekindle rivalries among the major powers, and create 
horrifying affronts to human dignity. When violence erupts and states 
falter, the United States will work with friends and partners to 
alleviate suffering and restore stability.

No doctrine can anticipate every circumstance in which U.S. action -- 
direct or indirect -- is warranted. We have finite political, economic, 
and military resources to meet our global priorities. The United States 
will approach each case with these strategic principles in mind:

*	The United States should invest time and resources into building 
international relationships and institutions that can help manage local 
crises when they emerge.

*	The United States should be realistic about its ability to help 
those who are unwilling or unready to help themselves. Where and when 
people are ready to do their part, we will be willing to move decisively.


Policies in several key regions offer some illustrations of how we will 
apply these principles:

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is critical because of the toll of 
human suffering, because of America's close relationship with the state 
of Israel and key Arab states, and because of that region's importance 
to other global priorities of the United States. There can be no peace 
for either side without freedom for both sides. America stands committed 
to an independent and democratic Palestine, living beside Israel in 
peace and security. Like all other people, Palestinians deserve a 
government that serves their interests, and listens to their voices, and 
counts their votes. The United States will continue to encourage all 
parties to step up to their responsibilities as we seek a just and 
comprehensive settlement to the conflict.

The United States, the international donor community, and the World Bank 
stand ready to work with a reformed Palestinian government on economic 
development, increased humanitarian assistance and a program to 
establish, finance, and monitor a truly independent judiciary. If 
Palestinians embrace democracy, and the rule of law, confront 
corruption, and firmly reject terror, they can count on American support 
for the creation of a Palestinian state.

Israel also has a large stake in the success of a democratic Palestine. 
Permanent occupation threatens Israel's identity and democracy. So the 
United States continues to challenge Israeli leaders to take concrete 
steps to support the emergence of a viable, credible Palestinian state. 
As there is progress towards security, Israel forces need to withdraw 
fully to positions they held prior to September 28, 2000. And consistent 
with the recommendations of the Mitchell Committee, Israeli settlement 
activity in the occupied territories must stop. As violence subsides, 
freedom of movement should be restored, permitting innocent Palestinians 
to resume work and normal life. The United States can play a crucial 
role but, ultimately, lasting peace can only come when Israelis and 
Palestinians resolve the issues and end the conflict between them.

In South Asia, the United States has also emphasized the need for India 
and Pakistan to resolve their disputes. This administration invested 
time and resources building strong bilateral relations with India and 
Pakistan. These strong relations then gave us leverage to play a 
constructive role when tensions in the region became acute. With 
Pakistan, our bilateral relations have been bolstered by Pakistan's 
choice to join the war against terror and move toward building a more 
open and tolerant society. The Administration sees India's potential to 
become one of the great democratic powers of the twenty-first century 
and has worked hard to transform our relationship accordingly. Our 
involvement in this regional dispute, building on earlier investments in 
bilateral relations, looks first to concrete steps by India and Pakistan 
that can help defuse military confrontation.

Indonesia took courageous steps to create a working democracy and 
respect for the rule of law. By tolerating ethnic minorities, respecting 
the rule of law, and accepting open markets, Indonesia may be able to 
employ the engine of opportunity that has helped lift some of its 
neighbors out of poverty and desperation. It is the initiative by 
Indonesia that allows U.S. assistance to make a difference.

In the Western Hemisphere we have formed flexible coalitions with 
countries that share our priorities, particularly Mexico, Brazil, 
Canada, Chile, and Colombia. Together we will promote a truly democratic 
hemisphere where our integration advances security, prosperity, 
opportunity, and hope. We will work with regional institutions, such as 
the Summit of the Americas process, the Organization of American States 
(OAS), and the Defense Ministerial of the Americas for the benefit of 
the entire hemisphere.

Parts of Latin America confront regional conflict, especially arising 
from the violence of drug cartels and their accomplices. This conflict 
and unrestrained narcotics trafficking could imperil the health and 
security of the United States. Therefore we have developed an active 
strategy to help the Andean nations adjust their economies, enforce 
their laws, defeat terrorist organizations, and cut off the supply of 
drugs, while -- as important -- we work to reduce the demand for drugs 
in our own country.

In Colombia, we recognize the link between terrorist and extremist 
groups that challenge the security of the state and drug trafficking 
activities that help finance the operations of such groups. We are 
working to help Colombia defend its democratic institutions and defeat 
illegal armed groups of both the left and right by extending effective 
sovereignty over the entire national territory and provide basic 
security to the Colombian people.

In Africa, promise and opportunity sit side by side with disease, war, 
and desperate poverty. This threatens both a core value of the United 
States -- preserving human dignity -- and our strategic priority -- 
combating global terror. American interests and American principles, 
therefore, lead in the same direction: we will work with others for an 
African continent that lives in liberty, peace, and growing prosperity. 
Together with our European allies, we must help strengthen Africa's 
fragile states, help build indigenous capability to secure porous 
borders, and help build up the law enforcement and intelligence 
infrastructure to deny havens for terrorists.

An ever more lethal environment exists in Africa as local civil wars 
spread beyond borders to create regional war zones. Forming coalitions 
of the willing and cooperative security arrangements are key to 
confronting these emerging transnational threats.

Africa's great size and diversity requires a security strategy that 
focuses bilateral engagement, and builds coalitions of the willing. This 
administration will focus on three interlocking strategies for the 
region:

*	countries with major impact on their neighborhood such as South 
Africa, Nigeria, Kenya, and Ethiopia are anchors for regional engagement 
and require focused attention;

*	coordination with European allies and international institutions is 
essential for constructive conflict mediation and successful peace 
operations; and

*	Africa's capable reforming states and sub-regional organizations 
must be strengthened as the primary means to address transnational 
threats on a sustained basis.


Ultimately the path of political and economic freedom presents the 
surest route to progress in sub-Saharan Africa, where most wars are 
conflicts over material resources and political access often tragically 
waged on the basis of ethnic and religious difference. The transition to 
the African Union with its stated commitment to good governance and a 
common responsibility for democratic political systems offers 
opportunities to strengthen democracy on the continent.

V. Prevent Our Enemies from Threatening Us, Our Allies, and Our Friends 
with Weapons of Mass Destruction


"The gravest danger to freedom lies at the crossroads of radicalism and 
technology. When the spread of chemical and biological and nuclear 
weapons, along with ballistic missile technology -- when that occurs, 
even weak states and small groups could attain a catastrophic power to 
strike great nations. Our enemies have declared this very intention, and 
have been caught seeking these terrible weapons. They want the 
capability to blackmail us, or to harm us, or to harm our friends -- and 
we will oppose them with all our power."





President Bush
West Point, New York
June 1, 2002



The nature of the Cold War threat required the United States -- with our 
allies and friends -- to emphasize deterrence of the enemy's use of 
force, producing a grim strategy of mutual assured destruction. With the 
collapse of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War, our security 
environment has undergone profound transformation.

Having moved from confrontation to cooperation as the hallmark of our 
relationship with Russia, the dividends are evident: an end to the 
balance of terror that divided us; an historic reduction in the nuclear 
arsenals on both sides; and cooperation in areas such as 
counterterrorism and missile defense that until recently were 
inconceivable.

But new deadly challenges have emerged from rogue states and terrorists. 
None of these contemporary threats rival the sheer destructive power 
that was arrayed against us by the Soviet Union. However, the nature and 
motivations of these new adversaries, their determination to obtain 
destructive powers hitherto available only to the world's strongest 
states, and the greater likelihood that they will use weapons of mass 
destruction against us, make today's security environment more complex 
and dangerous.

In the 1990s we witnessed the emergence of a small number of rogue 
states that, while different in important ways, share a number of 
attributes. These states:

*	brutalize their own people and squander their national resources 
for the personal gain of the rulers;

*	display no regard for international law, threaten their neighbors, 
and callously violate international treaties to which they are party;

*	are determined to acquire weapons of mass destruction, along with 
other advanced military technology, to be used as threats or offensively 
to achieve the aggressive designs of these regimes;

*	sponsor terrorism around the globe; and

*	reject basic human values and hate the United States and everything 
for which it stands.


At the time of the Gulf War, we acquired irrefutable proof that Iraq's 
designs were not limited to the chemical weapons it had used against 
Iran and its own people, but also extended to the acquisition of nuclear 
weapons and biological agents. In the past decade North Korea has become 
the world's principal purveyor of ballistic missiles, and has tested 
increasingly capable missiles while developing its own WMD arsenal. 
Other rogue regimes seek nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons as 
well. These states' pursuit of, and global trade in, such weapons has 
become a looming threat to all nations.

We must be prepared to stop rogue states and their terrorist clients 
before they are able to threaten or use weapons of mass destruction 
against the United States and our allies and friends. Our response must 
take full advantage of strengthened alliances, the establishment of new 
partnerships with former adversaries, innovation in the use of military 
forces, modern technologies, including the development of an effective 
missile defense system, and increased emphasis on intelligence 
collection and analysis.

Our comprehensive strategy to combat WMD includes:

*	Proactive counterproliferation efforts. We must deter and defend 
against the threat before it is unleashed. We must ensure that key 
capabilities -- detection, active and passive defenses, and counterforce 
capabilities -- are integrated into our defense transformation and our 
homeland security systems. Counterproliferation must also be integrated 
into the doctrine, training, and equipping of our forces and those of 
our allies to ensure that we can prevail in any conflict with WMD-armed 
adversaries.

*	Strengthened nonproliferation efforts to prevent rogue states and 
terrorists from acquiring the materials, technologies and expertise 
necessary for weapons of mass destruction. We will enhance diplomacy, 
arms control, multilateral export controls, and threat reduction 
assistance that impede states and terrorists seeking WMD, and when 
necessary, interdict enabling technologies and materials. We will 
continue to build coalitions to support these efforts, encouraging their 
increased political and financial support for nonproliferation and 
threat reduction programs. The recent G-8 agreement to commit up to $20 
billion to a global partnership against proliferation marks a major step 
forward.

*	Effective consequence management to respond to the effects of WMD 
use, whether by terrorists or hostile states. Minimizing the effects of 
WMD use against our people will help deter those who possess such 
weapons and dissuade those who seek to acquire them by persuading 
enemies that they cannot attain their desired ends. The United States 
must also be prepared to respond to the effects of WMD use against our 
forces abroad, and to help friends and allies if they are attacked.


It has taken almost a decade for us to comprehend the true nature of 
this new threat. Given the goals of rogue states and terrorists, the 
United States can no longer solely rely on a reactive posture as we have 
in the past. The inability to deter a potential attacker, the immediacy 
of today's threats, and the magnitude of potential harm that could be 
caused by our adversaries' choice of weapons, do not permit that option. 
We cannot let our enemies strike first.

*	In the Cold War, especially following the Cuban missile crisis, we 
faced a generally status quo, risk-averse adversary. Deterrence was an 
effective defense. But deterrence based only upon the threat of 
retaliation is far less likely to work against leaders of rogue states 
more willing to take risks, gambling with the lives of their people, and 
the wealth of their nations.

*	In the Cold War, weapons of mass destruction were considered 
weapons of last resort whose use risked the destruction of those who 
used them. Today, our enemies see weapons of mass destruction as weapons 
of choice. For rogue states these weapons are tools of intimidation and 
military aggression against their neighbors. These weapons may also 
allow these states to attempt to blackmail the United States and our 
allies to prevent us from deterring or repelling the aggressive behavior 
of rogue states. Such states also see these weapons as their best means 
of overcoming the conventional superiority of the United States.

*	Traditional concepts of deterrence will not work against a 
terrorist enemy whose avowed tactics are wanton destruction and the 
targeting of innocents; whose so-called soldiers seek martyrdom in death 
and whose most potent protection is statelessness. The overlap between 
states that sponsor terror and those that pursue WMD compels us to 
action.


For centuries, international law recognized that nations need not suffer 
an attack before they can lawfully take action to defend themselves 
against forces that present an imminent danger of attack. Legal scholars 
and international jurists often conditioned the legitimacy of preemption 
on the existence of an imminent threat -- most often a visible 
mobilization of armies, navies, and air forces preparing to attack.

We must adapt the concept of imminent threat to the capabilities and 
objectives of today's adversaries. Rogue states and terrorists do not 
seek to attack us using conventional means. They know such attacks would 
fail. Instead, they rely on acts of terrorism and, potentially, the use 
of weapons of mass destruction -- weapons that can be easily concealed 
and delivered covertly and without warning.

The targets of these attacks are our military forces and our civilian 
population, in direct violation of one of the principal norms of the law 
of warfare. As was demonstrated by the losses on September 11, 2001, 
mass civilian casualties is the specific objective of terrorists and 
these losses would be exponentially more severe if terrorists acquired 
and used weapons of mass destruction.

The United States has long maintained the option of preemptive actions 
to counter a sufficient threat to our national security. The greater the 
threat, the greater is the risk of inaction -- and the more compelling 
the case for taking anticipatory action to defend ourselves, even if 
uncertainty remains as to the time and place of the enemy's attack. To 
forestall or prevent such hostile acts by our adversaries, the United 
States will, if necessary, act preemptively.

The United States will not use force in all cases to preempt emerging 
threats, nor should nations use preemption as a pretext for aggression. 
Yet in an age where the enemies of civilization openly and actively seek 
the world's most destructive technologies, the United States cannot 
remain idle while dangers gather.

We will always proceed deliberately, weighing the consequences of our 
actions. To support preemptive options, we will:

*	build better, more integrated intelligence capabilities to provide 
timely, accurate information on threats, wherever they may emerge;

*	coordinate closely with allies to form a common assessment of the 
most dangerous threats; and

*	continue to transform our military forces to ensure our ability to 
conduct rapid and precise operations to achieve decisive results.


The purpose of our actions will always be to eliminate a specific threat 
to the United States or our allies and friends. The reasons for our 
actions will be clear, the force measured, and the cause just.

VI. Ignite a New Era of Global Economic Growth through Free Markets and 
Free Trade.


"When nations close their markets and opportunity is hoarded by a 
privileged few, no amount -- no amount -- of development aid is ever 
enough. When nations respect their people, open markets, invest in 
better health and education, every dollar of aid, every dollar of trade 
revenue and domestic capital is used more effectively."





President Bush
Monterrey, Mexico
March 22, 2002



A strong world economy enhances our national security by advancing 
prosperity and freedom in the rest of the world. Economic growth 
supported by free trade and free markets creates new jobs and higher 
incomes. It allows people to lift their lives out of poverty, spurs 
economic and legal reform, and the fight against corruption, and it 
reinforces the habits of liberty.

We will promote economic growth and economic freedom beyond America's 
shores. All governments are responsible for creating their own economic 
policies and responding to their own economic challenge. We will use our 
economic engagement with other countries to underscore the benefits of 
policies that generate higher productivity and sustained economic 
growth, including:

*	pro-growth legal and regulatory policies to encourage business 
investment, innovation, and entrepreneurial activity;

*	tax policies -- particularly lower marginal tax rates -- that 
improve incentives for work and investment;

*	rule of law and intolerance of corruption so that people are 
confident that they will be able to enjoy the fruits of their economic 
endeavors;

*	strong financial systems that allow capital to be put to its most 
efficient use;

*	sound fiscal policies to support business activity;

*	investments in health and education that improve the well-being and 
skills of the labor force and population as a whole; and

*	free trade that provides new avenues for growth and fosters the 
diffusion of technologies and ideas that increase productivity and 
opportunity.


The lessons of history are clear: market economies, not 
command-and-control economies with the heavy hand of government, are the 
best way to promote prosperity and reduce poverty. Policies that further 
strengthen market incentives and market institutions are relevant for 
all economies -- industrialized countries, emerging markets, and the 
developing world.

A return to strong economic growth in Europe and Japan is vital to U.S. 
national security interests. We want our allies to have strong economies 
for their own sake, for the sake of the global economy, and for the sake 
of global security. European efforts to remove structural barriers in 
their economies are particularly important in this regard, as are 
Japan's efforts to end deflation and address the problems of 
non-performing loans in the Japanese banking system. We will continue to 
use our regular consultations with Japan and our European partners -- 
including through the Group of Seven (G-7) -- to discuss policies they 
are adopting to promote growth in their economies and support higher 
global economic growth.

Improving stability in emerging markets is also key to global economic 
growth. International flows of investment capital are needed to expand 
the productive potential of these economies. These flows allow emerging 
markets and developing countries to make the investments that raise 
living standards and reduce poverty. Our long-term objective should be a 
world in which all countries have investment-grade credit ratings that 
allow them access to international capital markets and to invest in 
their future.

We are committed to policies that will help emerging markets achieve 
access to larger capital flows at lower cost. To this end, we will 
continue to pursue reforms aimed at reducing uncertainty in financial 
markets. We will work actively with other countries, the International 
Monetary Fund (IMF), and the private sector to implement the G-7 Action 
Plan negotiated earlier this year for preventing financial crises and 
more effectively resolving them when they occur.

The best way to deal with financial crises is to prevent them from 
occurring, and we have encouraged the IMF to improve its efforts doing 
so. We will continue to work with the IMF to streamline the policy 
conditions for its lending and to focus its lending strategy on 
achieving economic growth through sound fiscal and monetary policy, 
exchange rate policy, and financial sector policy.

The concept of "free trade" arose as a moral principle even before it 
became a pillar of economics. If you can make something that others 
value, you should be able to sell it to them. If others make something 
that you value, you should be able to buy it. This is real freedom, the 
freedom for a person -- or a nation -- to make a living. To promote free 
trade, the Unites States has developed a comprehensive strategy:

*	Seize the global initiative. The new global trade negotiations we 
helped launch at Doha in November 2001 will have an ambitious agenda, 
especially in agriculture, manufacturing, and services, targeted for 
completion in 2005. The United States has led the way in completing the 
accession of China and a democratic Taiwan to the World Trade 
Organization. We will assist Russia's preparations to join the WTO.

*	Press regional initiatives. The United States and other democracies 
in the Western Hemisphere have agreed to create the Free Trade Area of 
the Americas, targeted for completion in 2005. This year the United 
States will advocate market-access negotiations with its partners, 
targeted on agriculture, industrial goods, services, investment, and 
government procurement. We will also offer more opportunity to the 
poorest continent, Africa, starting with full use of the preferences 
allowed in the African Growth and Opportunity Act, and leading to free 
trade.

*	Move ahead with bilateral free trade agreements. Building on the 
free trade agreement with Jordan enacted in 2001, the Administration 
will work this year to complete free trade agreements with Chile and 
Singapore. Our aim is to achieve free trade agreements with a mix of 
developed and developing countries in all regions of the world. 
Initially, Central America, Southern Africa, Morocco, and Australia will 
be our principal focal points.

*	Renew the executive-congressional partnership. Every 
administration's trade strategy depends on a productive partnership with 
Congress. After a gap of 8 years, the Administration reestablished 
majority support in the Congress for trade liberalization by passing 
Trade Promotion Authority and the other market opening measures for 
developing countries in the Trade Act of 2002. This Administration will 
work with Congress to enact new bilateral, regional, and global trade 
agreements that will be concluded under the recently passed Trade 
Promotion Authority.

*	Promote the connection between trade and development. Trade 
policies can help developing countries strengthen property rights, 
competition, the rule of law, investment, the spread of knowledge, open 
societies, the efficient allocation of resources, and regional 
integration -- all leading to growth, opportunity, and confidence in 
developing countries. The United States is implementing The Africa 
Growth and Opportunity Act to provide market-access for nearly all goods 
produced in the 35 countries of sub-Saharan Africa. We will make more 
use of this act and its equivalent for the Caribbean Basin and continue 
to work with multilateral and regional institutions to help poorer 
countries take advantage of these opportunities. Beyond market access, 
the most important area where trade intersects with poverty is in public 
health. We will ensure that the WTO intellectual property rules are 
flexible enough to allow developing nations to gain access to critical 
medicines for extraordinary dangers like HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis, and 
malaria.

*	Enforce trade agreements and laws against unfair practices. 
Commerce depends on the rule of law; international trade depends on 
enforceable agreements. Our top priorities are to resolve ongoing 
disputes with the European Union, Canada, and Mexico and to make a 
global effort to address new technology, science, and health regulations 
that needlessly impede farm exports and improved agriculture. Laws 
against unfair trade practices are often abused, but the international 
community must be able to address genuine concerns about government 
subsidies and dumping. International industrial espionage which 
undermines fair competition must be detected and deterred.

*	Help domestic industries and workers adjust. There is a sound 
statutory framework for these transitional safeguards which we have used 
in the agricultural sector and which we are using this year to help the 
American steel industry. The benefits of free trade depend upon the 
enforcement of fair trading practices. These safeguards help ensure that 
the benefits of free trade do not come at the expense of American 
workers. Trade adjustment assistance will help workers adapt to the 
change and dynamism of open markets.

*	Protect the environment and workers. The United States must foster 
economic growth in ways that will provide a better life along with 
widening prosperity. We will incorporate labor and environmental 
concerns into U.S. trade negotiations, creating a healthy "network" 
between multilateral environmental agreements with the WTO, and use the 
International Labor Organization, trade preference programs, and trade 
talks to improve working conditions in conjunction with freer trade.

*	Enhance energy security. We will strengthen our own energy security 
and the shared prosperity of the global economy by working with our 
allies, trading partners, and energy producers to expand the sources and 
types of global energy supplied, especially in the Western Hemisphere, 
Africa, Central Asia, and the Caspian region. We will also continue to 
work with our partners to develop cleaner and more energy efficient 
technologies.


Economic growth should be accompanied by global efforts to stabilize 
greenhouse gas concentrations associated with this growth, containing 
them at a level that prevents dangerous human interference with the 
global climate. Our overall objective is to reduce America's greenhouse 
gas emissions relative to the size of our economy, cutting such 
emissions per unit of economic activity by 18 percent over the next 10 
years, by the year 2012. Our strategies for attaining this goal will be 
to:

*	remain committed to the basic U.N. Framework Convention for 
international cooperation;

*	obtain agreements with key industries to cut emissions of some of 
the most potent greenhouse gases and give transferable credits to 
companies that can show real cuts;

*	develop improved standards for measuring and registering emission 
reductions;

*	promote renewable energy production and clean coal technology, as 
well as nuclear power -- which produces no greenhouse gas emissions, 
while also improving fuel economy for U.S. cars and trucks;

*	increase spending on research and new conservation technologies, to 
a total of $4.5 billion -- the largest sum being spent on climate change 
by any country in the world and a $700 million increase over last year's 
budget; and

*	assist developing countries, especially the major greenhouse gas 
emitters such as China and India, so that they will have the tools and 
resources to join this effort and be able to grow along a cleaner and 
better path.


VII. Expand the Circle of Development by Opening Societies and Building 
the Infrastructure of Democracy


"In World War II we fought to make the world safer, then worked to 
rebuild it. As we wage war today to keep the world safe from terror, we 
must also work to make the world a better place for all its citizens."





President Bush
Washington, D.C. (Inter-American
Development Bank)
March 14, 2002



A world where some live in comfort and plenty, while half of the human 
race lives on less than $2 a day, is neither just nor stable. Including 
all of the world's poor in an expanding circle of development -- and 
opportunity -- is a moral imperative and one of the top priorities of 
U.S. international policy.

Decades of massive development assistance have failed to spur economic 
growth in the poorest countries. Worse, development aid has often served 
to prop up failed policies, relieving the pressure for reform and 
perpetuating misery. Results of aid are typically measured in dollars 
spent by donors, not in the rates of growth and poverty reduction 
achieved by recipients. These are the indicators of a failed strategy.

Working with other nations, the United States is confronting this 
failure. We forged a new consensus at the U.N. Conference on Financing 
for Development in Monterrey that the objectives of assistance -- and 
the strategies to achieve those objectives -- must change.

This Administration's goal is to help unleash the productive potential 
of individuals in all nations. Sustained growth and poverty reduction is 
impossible without the right national policies. Where governments have 
implemented real policy changes we will provide significant new levels 
of assistance. The United States and other developed countries should 
set an ambitious and specific target: to double the size of the world's 
poorest economies within a decade.

The United States Government will pursue these major strategies to 
achieve this goal:

*	Provide resources to aid countries that have met the challenge of 
national reform. We propose a 50 percent increase in the core 
development assistance given by the United States. While continuing our 
present programs, including humanitarian assistance based on need alone, 
these billions of new dollars will form a new Millennium Challenge 
Account for projects in countries whose governments rule justly, invest 
in their people, and encourage economic freedom. Governments must fight 
corruption, respect basic human rights, embrace the rule of law, invest 
in health care and education, follow responsible economic policies, and 
enable entrepreneurship. The Millennium Challenge Account will reward 
countries that have demonstrated real policy change and challenge those 
that have not to implement reforms.

*	Improve the effectiveness of the World Bank and other development 
banks in raising living standards. The United States is committed to a 
comprehensive reform agenda for making the World Bank and the other 
multilateral development banks more effective in improving the lives of 
the world's poor. We have reversed the downward trend in U.S. 
contributions and proposed an 18 percent increase in the U.S. 
contributions to the International Development Association (IDA) -- the 
World Bank's fund for the poorest countries -- and the African 
Development Fund. The key to raising living standards and reducing 
poverty around the world is increasing productivity growth, especially 
in the poorest countries. We will continue to press the multilateral 
development banks to focus on activities that increase economic 
productivity, such as improvements in education, health, rule of law, 
and private sector development. Every project, every loan, every grant 
must be judged by how much it will increase productivity growth in 
developing countries.

*	Insist upon measurable results to ensure that development 
assistance is actually making a difference in the lives of the world's 
poor. When it comes to economic development, what really matters is that 
more children are getting a better education, more people have access to 
health care and clean water, or more workers can find jobs to make a 
better future for their families. We have a moral obligation to measure 
the success of our development assistance by whether it is delivering 
results. For this reason, we will continue to demand that our own 
development assistance as well as assistance from the multilateral 
development banks has measurable goals and concrete benchmarks for 
achieving those goals. Thanks to U.S. leadership, the recent IDA 
replenishment agreement will establish a monitoring and evaluation 
system that measures recipient countries' progress. For the first time, 
donors can link a portion of their contributions to IDA to the 
achievement of actual development results, and part of the U.S. 
contribution is linked in this way. We will strive to make sure that the 
World Bank and other multilateral development banks build on this 
progress so that a focus on results is an integral part of everything 
that these institutions do.

*	Increase the amount of development assistance that is provided in 
the form of grants instead of loans. Greater use of results-based grants 
is the best way to help poor countries make productive investments, 
particularly in the social sectors, without saddling them with 
ever-larger debt burdens. As a result of U.S. leadership, the recent IDA 
agreement provided for significant increases in grant funding for the 
poorest countries for education, HIV/AIDS, health, nutrition, water, 
sanitation, and other human needs. Our goal is to build on that progress 
by increasing the use of grants at the other multilateral development 
banks. We will also challenge universities, nonprofits, and the private 
sector to match government efforts by using grants to support 
development projects that show results.

*	Open societies to commerce and investment. Trade and investment are 
the real engines of economic growth. Even if government aid increases, 
most money for development must come from trade, domestic capital, and 
foreign investment. An effective strategy must try to expand these flows 
as well. Free markets and free trade are key priorities of our national 
security strategy.

*	Secure public health. The scale of the public health crisis in poor 
countries is enormous. In countries afflicted by epidemics and pandemics 
like HIV/AIDS, malaria, and tuberculosis, growth and development will be 
threatened until these scourges can be contained. Resources from the 
developed world are necessary but will be effective only with honest 
governance, which supports prevention programs and provides effective 
local infrastructure. The United States has strongly backed the new 
global fund for HIV/AIDS organized by U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan 
and its focus on combining prevention with a broad strategy for 
treatment and care. The United States already contributes more than 
twice as much money to such efforts as the next largest donor. If the 
global fund demonstrates its promise, we will be ready to give even more.

*	Emphasize education. Literacy and learning are the foundation of 
democracy and development. Only about 7 percent of World Bank resources 
are devoted to education. This proportion should grow. The United States 
will increase its own funding for education assistance by at least 20 
percent with an emphasis on improving basic education and teacher 
training in Africa. The United States can also bring information 
technology to these societies, many of whose education systems have been 
devastated by AIDS.

*	Continue to aid agricultural development. New technologies, 
including biotechnology, have enormous potential to improve crop yields 
in developing countries while using fewer pesticides and less water. 
Using sound science, the United States should help bring these benefits 
to the 800 million people, including 300 million children, who still 
suffer from hunger and malnutrition.


VIII. Develop Agendas for Cooperative Action with the Other Main Centers 
of Global Power


"We have our best chance since the rise of the nation-state in the 17th 
century to build a world where the great powers compete in peace instead 
of prepare for war."





President Bush
West Point, New York
June 1, 2002



America will implement its strategies by organizing coalitions -- as 
broad as practicable -- of states able and willing to promote a balance 
of power that favors freedom. Effective coalition leadership requires 
clear priorities, an appreciation of others' interests, and consistent 
consultations among partners with a spirit of humility.

There is little of lasting consequence that the United States can 
accomplish in the world without the sustained cooperation of its allies 
and friends in Canada and Europe. Europe is also the seat of two of the 
strongest and most able international institutions in the world: the 
North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), which has, since its 
inception, been the fulcrum of transatlantic and inter-European 
security, and the European Union (EU), our partner in opening world 
trade.

The attacks of September 11 were also an attack on NATO, as NATO itself 
recognized when it invoked its Article V self-defense clause for the 
first time. NATO's core mission -- collective defense of the 
transatlantic alliance of democracies -- remains, but NATO must develop 
new structures and capabilities to carry out that mission under new 
circumstances. NATO must build a capability to field, at short notice, 
highly mobile, specially trained forces whenever they are needed to 
respond to a threat against any member of the alliance.

The alliance must be able to act wherever our interests are threatened, 
creating coalitions under NATO's own mandate, as well as contributing to 
mission-based coalitions. To achieve this, we must:

*	expand NATO's membership to those democratic nations willing and 
able to share the burden of defending and advancing our common interests;

*	ensure that the military forces of NATO nations have appropriate 
combat contributions to make in coalition warfare;

*	develop planning processes to enable those contributions to become 
effective multinational fighting forces;

*	take advantage of the technological opportunities and economies of 
scale in our defense spending to transform NATO military forces so that 
they dominate potential aggressors and diminish our vulnerabilities;

*	streamline and increase the flexibility of command structures to 
meet new operational demands and the associated requirements of 
training, integrating, and experimenting with new force configurations; 
and

*	maintain the ability to work and fight together as allies even as 
we take the necessary steps to transform and modernize our forces.


If NATO succeeds in enacting these changes, the rewards will be a 
partnership as central to the security and interests of its member 
states as was the case during the Cold War. We will sustain a common 
perspective on the threats to our societies and improve our ability to 
take common action in defense of our nations and their interests. At the 
same time, we welcome our European allies' efforts to forge a greater 
foreign policy and defense identity with the EU, and commit ourselves to 
close consultations to ensure that these developments work with NATO. We 
cannot afford to lose this opportunity to better prepare the family of 
transatlantic democracies for the challenges to come.

The attacks of September 11 energized America's Asian alliances. 
Australia invoked the ANZUS Treaty to declare the September 11 was an 
attack on Australia itself, following that historic decision with the 
dispatch of some of the world's finest combat forces for Operation 
Enduring Freedom. Japan and the Republic of Korea provided unprecedented 
levels of military logistical support within weeks of the terrorist 
attack. We have deepened cooperation on counter-terrorism with our 
alliance partners in Thailand and the Philippines and received 
invaluable assistance from close friends like Singapore and New Zealand.

The war against terrorism has proven that America's alliances in Asia 
not only underpin regional peace and stability, but are flexible and 
ready to deal with new challenges. To enhance our Asian alliances and 
friendships, we will:


*	look to Japan to continue forging a leading role in regional and 
global affairs based on our common interests, our common values, and our 
close defense and diplomatic cooperation;

*	work with South Korea to maintain vigilance towards the North while 
preparing our alliance to make contributions to the broader stability of 
the region over the longer-term;

*	build on 50 years of U.S.-Australian alliance cooperation as we 
continue working together to resolve regional and global problems -- as 
we have so many times from the Battle of Leyte Gulf to Tora Bora;

*	maintain forces in the region that reflect our commitments to our 
allies, our requirements, our technological advances, and the strategic 
environment; and

*	build on stability provided by these alliances, as well as with 
institutions such as ASEAN and the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation 
forum, to develop a mix of regional and bilateral strategies to manage 
change in this dynamic region.


We are attentive to the possible renewal of old patterns of great power 
competition. Several potential great powers are now in the midst of 
internal transition -- most importantly Russia, India, and China. In all 
three cases, recent developments have encouraged our hope that a truly 
global consensus about basic principles is slowly taking shape.

With Russia, we are already building a new strategic relationship based 
on a central reality of the twenty-first century: the United States and 
Russia are no longer strategic adversaries. The Moscow Treaty on 
Strategic Reductions is emblematic of this new reality and reflects a 
critical change in Russian thinking that promises to lead to productive, 
long-term relations with the Euro-Atlantic community and the United 
States. Russia's top leaders have a realistic assessment of their 
country's current weakness and the policies -- internal and external -- 
needed to reverse those weaknesses. They understand, increasingly, that 
Cold War approaches do not serve their national interests and that 
Russian and American strategic interests overlap in many areas.

United States policy seeks to use this turn in Russian thinking to 
refocus our relationship on emerging and potential common interests and 
challenges. We are broadening our already extensive cooperation in the 
global war on terrorism. We are facilitating Russia's entry into the 
World Trade Organization, without lowering standards for accession, to 
promote beneficial bilateral trade and investment relations. We have 
created the NATO-Russia Council with the goal of deepening security 
cooperation among Russia, our European allies, and ourselves. We will 
continue to bolster the independence and stability of the states of the 
former Soviet Union in the belief that a prosperous and stable 
neighborhood will reinforce Russia's growing commitment to integration 
into the Euro-Atlantic community.

At the same time, we are realistic about the differences that still 
divide us from Russia and about the time and effort it will take to 
build an enduring strategic partnership. Lingering distrust of our 
motives and policies by key Russian elites slows improvement in our 
relations. Russia's uneven commitment to the basic values of free-market 
democracy and dubious record in combating the proliferation of weapons 
of mass destruction remain matters of great concern. Russia's very 
weakness limits the opportunities for cooperation. Nevertheless, those 
opportunities are vastly greater now than in recent years -- or even 
decades.

The United States has undertaken a transformation in its bilateral 
relationship with India based on a conviction that U.S. interests 
require a strong relationship with India. We are the two largest 
democracies, committed to political freedom protected by representative 
government. India is moving toward greater economic freedom as well. We 
have a common interest in the free flow of commerce, including through 
the vital sea lanes of the Indian Ocean. Finally, we share an interest 
in fighting terrorism and in creating a strategically stable Asia.

Differences remain, including over the development of India's nuclear 
and missile programs, and the pace of India's economic reforms. But 
while in the past these concerns may have dominated our thinking about 
India, today we start with a view of India as a growing world power with 
which we have common strategic interests. Through a strong partnership 
with India, we can best address any differences and shape a dynamic 
future.

The United States relationship with China is an important part of our 
strategy to promote a stable, peaceful, and prosperous Asia-Pacific 
region. We welcome the emergence of a strong, peaceful, and prosperous 
China. The democratic development of China is crucial to that future. 
Yet, a quarter century after beginning the process of shedding the worst 
features of the Communist legacy, China's leaders have not yet made the 
next series of fundamental choices about the character of their state. 
In pursuing advanced military capabilities that can threaten its 
neighbors in the Asia-Pacific region, China is following an outdated 
path that, in the end, will hamper its own pursuit of national 
greatness. In time, China will find that social and political freedom is 
the only source of that greatness.

The United States seeks a constructive relationship with a changing 
China. We already cooperate well where our interests overlap, including 
the current war on terrorism and in promoting stability on the Korean 
peninsula. Likewise, we have coordinated on the future of Afghanistan 
and have initiated a comprehensive dialogue on counter-terrorism and 
similar transitional concerns. Shared health and environmental threats, 
such as the spread of HIV/AIDS, challenge us to promote jointly the 
welfare of our citizens.

Addressing these transnational threats will challenge China to become 
more open with information, promote the development of civil society, 
and enhance individual human rights. China has begun to take the road to 
political openness, permitting many personal freedoms and conducting 
village-level elections, yet remains strongly committed to national 
one-party rule by the Communist Party. To make that nation truly 
accountable to its citizen's needs and aspirations, however, much work 
remains to be done. Only by allowing the Chinese people to think, 
assemble, and worship freely can China reach its full potential.

Our important trade relationship will benefit from China's entry into 
the World Trade Organization, which will create more export 
opportunities and ultimately more jobs for American farmers, workers, 
and companies. China is our fourth largest trading partner, with over 
$100 billion in annual two-way trade. The power of market principles and 
the WTO's requirements for transparency and accountability will advance 
openness and the rule of law in China to help establish basic 
protections for commerce and for citizens. There are, however, other 
areas in which we have profound disagreements. Our commitment to the 
self-defense of Taiwan under the Taiwan Relations Act is one. Human 
rights is another. We expect China to adhere to its nonproliferation 
commitments. We will work to narrow differences where they exist, but 
not allow them to preclude cooperation where we agree.

The events of September 11, 2001, fundamentally changed the context for 
relations between the United States and other main centers of global 
power, and opened vast, new opportunities. With our long-standing allies 
in Europe and Asia, and with leaders in Russia, India, and China, we 
must develop active agendas of cooperation lest these relationships 
become routine and unproductive.

Every agency of the United States Government shares the challenge. We 
can build fruitful habits of consultation, quiet argument, sober 
analysis, and common action. In the long-term, these are the practices 
that will sustain the supremacy of our common principles and keep open 
the path of progress.

IX. Transform America's National Security Institutions to Meet the 
Challenges and Opportunities of the Twenty-First Century


"Terrorists attacked a symbol of American prosperity. They did not touch 
its source. America is successful because of the hard work, creativity, 
and enterprise of our people."





President Bush
Washington, D.C. (Joint Session of Congress)
September 20, 2001



The major institutions of American national security were designed in a 
different era to meet different requirements. All of them must be 
transformed.

It is time to reaffirm the essential role of American military strength. 
We must build and maintain our defenses beyond challenge. Our military's 
highest priority is to defend the United States. To do so effectively, 
our military must:

*	assure our allies and friends;

*	dissuade future military competition;

*	deter threats against U.S. interests, allies, and friends; and

*	decisively defeat any adversary if deterrence fails.


The unparalleled strength of the United States armed forces, and their 
forward presence, have maintained the peace in some of the world's most 
strategically vital regions. However, the threats and enemies we must 
confront have changed, and so must our forces. A military structured to 
deter massive Cold War-era armies must be transformed to focus more on 
how an adversary might fight rather than where and when a war might 
occur. We will channel our energies to overcome a host of operational 
challenges.

The presence of American forces overseas is one of the most profound 
symbols of the U.S. commitments to allies and friends. Through our 
willingness to use force in our own defense and in defense of others, 
the United States demonstrates its resolve to maintain a balance of 
power that favors freedom. To contend with uncertainty and to meet the 
many security challenges we face, the United States will require bases 
and stations within and beyond Western Europe and Northeast Asia, as 
well as temporary access arrangements for the long-distance deployment 
of U.S. forces.

Before the war in Afghanistan, that area was low on the list of major 
planning contingencies. Yet, in a very short time, we had to operate 
across the length and breadth of that remote nation, using every branch 
of the armed forces. We must prepare for more such deployments by 
developing assets such as advanced remote sensing, long-range precision 
strike capabilities, and transformed maneuver and expeditionary forces. 
This broad portfolio of military capabilities must also include the 
ability to defend the homeland, conduct information operations, ensure 
U.S. access to distant theaters, and protect critical U.S. 
infrastructure and assets in outer space.

Innovation within the armed forces will rest on experimentation with new 
approaches to warfare, strengthening joint operations, exploiting U.S. 
intelligence advantages, and taking full advantage of science and 
technology. We must also transform the way the Department of Defense is 
run, especially in financial management and recruitment and retention. 
Finally, while maintaining near-term readiness and the ability to fight 
the war on terrorism, the goal must be to provide the President with a 
wider range of military options to discourage aggression or any form of 
coercion against the United States, our allies, and our friends.

We know from history that deterrence can fail; and we know from 
experience that some enemies cannot be deterred. The United States must 
and will maintain the capability to defeat any attempt by an enemy -- 
whether a state or non-state actor -- to impose its will on the United 
States, our allies, or our friends. We will maintain the forces 
sufficient to support our obligations, and to defend freedom. Our forces 
will be strong enough to dissuade potential adversaries from pursuing a 
military build-up in hopes of surpassing, or equaling, the power of the 
United States.

Intelligence -- and how we use it -- is our first line of defense 
against terrorists and the threat posed by hostile states. Designed 
around the priority of gathering enormous information about a massive, 
fixed object -- the Soviet bloc -- the intelligence community is coping 
with the challenge of following a far more complex and elusive set of 
targets.

We must transform our intelligence capabilities and build new ones to 
keep pace with the nature of these threats. Intelligence must be 
appropriately integrated with our defense and law enforcement systems 
and coordinated with our allies and friends. We need to protect the 
capabilities we have so that we do not arm our enemies with the 
knowledge of how best to surprise us. Those who would harm us also seek 
the benefit of surprise to limit our prevention and response options and 
to maximize injury.

We must strengthen intelligence warning and analysis to provide 
integrated threat assessments for national and homeland security. Since 
the threats inspired by foreign governments and groups may be conducted 
inside the United States, we must also ensure the proper fusion of 
information between intelligence and law enforcement.

Initiatives in this area will include:

*	strengthening the authority of the Director of Central Intelligence 
to lead the development and actions of the Nation's foreign intelligence 
capabilities;

*	establishing a new framework for intelligence warning that provides 
seamless and integrated warning across the spectrum of threats facing 
the nation and our allies;

*	continuing to develop new methods of collecting information to 
sustain our intelligence advantage;

*	investing in future capabilities while working to protect them 
through a more vigorous effort to prevent the compromise of intelligence 
capabilities; and

*	collecting intelligence against the terrorist danger across the 
government with all-source analysis.


As the United States Government relies on the armed forces to defend 
America's interests, it must rely on diplomacy to interact with other 
nations. We will ensure that the Department of State receives funding 
sufficient to ensure the success of American diplomacy. The State 
Department takes the lead in managing our bilateral relationships with 
other governments. And in this new era, its people and institutions must 
be able to interact equally adroitly with non-governmental organizations 
and international institutions. Officials trained mainly in 
international politics must also extend their reach to understand 
complex issues of domestic governance around the world, including public 
health, education, law enforcement, the judiciary, and public diplomacy.

Our diplomats serve at the front line of complex negotiations, civil 
wars, and other humanitarian catastrophes. As humanitarian relief 
requirements are better understood, we must also be able to help build 
police forces, court systems, and legal codes, local and provincial 
government institutions, and electoral systems. Effective international 
cooperation is needed to accomplish these goals, backed by American 
readiness to play our part.

Just as our diplomatic institutions must adapt so that we can reach out 
to others, we also need a different and more comprehensive approach to 
public information efforts that can help people around the world learn 
about and understand America. The war on terrorism is not a clash of 
civilizations. It does, however, reveal the clash inside a civilization, 
a battle for the future of the Muslim world. This is a struggle of ideas 
and this is an area where America must excel.

We will take the actions necessary to ensure that our efforts to meet 
our global security commitments and protect Americans are not impaired 
by the potential for investigations, inquiry, or prosecution by the 
International Criminal Court (ICC), whose jurisdiction does not extend 
to Americans and which we do not accept. We will work together with 
other nations to avoid complications in our military operations and 
cooperation, through such mechanisms as multilateral and bilateral 
agreements that will protect U.S. nationals from the ICC. We will 
implement fully the American Servicemembers Protection Act, whose 
provisions are intended to ensure and enhance the protection of U.S. 
personnel and officials.

We will make hard choices in the coming year and beyond to ensure the 
right level and allocation of government spending on national security. 
The United States Government must strengthen its defenses to win this 
war. At home, our most important priority is to protect the homeland for 
the American people.

Today, the distinction between domestic and foreign affairs is 
diminishing. In a globalized world, events beyond America's borders have 
a greater impact inside them. Our society must be open to people, ideas, 
and goods from across the globe. The characteristics we most cherish -- 
our freedom, our cities, our systems of movement, and modern life -- are 
vulnerable to terrorism. This vulnerability will persist long after we 
bring to justice those responsible for the September eleventh attacks. 
As time passes, individuals may gain access to means of destruction that 
until now could be wielded only by armies, fleets, and squadrons. This 
is a new condition of life. We will adjust to it and thrive -- in spite 
of it.

In exercising our leadership, we will respect the values, judgment, and 
interests of our friends and partners. Still, we will be prepared to act 
apart when our interests and unique responsibilities require. When we 
disagree on particulars, we will explain forthrightly the grounds for 
our concerns and strive to forge viable alternatives. We will not allow 
such disagreements to obscure our determination to secure together, with 
our allies and our friends, our shared fundamental interests and values.

Ultimately, the foundation of American strength is at home. It is in the 
skills of our people, the dynamism of our economy, and the resilience of 
our institutions. A diverse, modern society has inherent, ambitious, 
entrepreneurial energy. Our strength comes from what we do with that 
energy. That is where our national security begins.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0731.59e8a707586a8b3cfe89bff4024dead7.eml000066400000000000000000000066471444326627400314000ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep 21 10:42:49 2002
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To: "Geege Schuman" 
Cc: "Russell Turpin" , 
Subject: Re: AA Meetings the Hottest Place to Meet Women With Big Bucks
References: 
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
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>>>>> "G" == Geege Schuman  writes:

    G> SURELY you meant political extremes and not politics?  baisley?
    G> help me out here.

OK, but only if you also meant religious and alcoholic extremes ;)

When the political canvassers come to my door during the campaigns,
I always wonder why cigarette packages are labelled with warnings
whereas political brochures are not; the statistics clearly show
which is the greater, more senseless, and more preventable killer.

>>>>> "R" == Russell Turpin  writes:

    R> It's difficult to measure which is the greater liability in a
    R> potential mate, religiosity or alcoholism.

    G> Or politics.






-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
  "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0732.63667434e8712ed16361596f40c468ed.eml000066400000000000000000000071611444326627400306460ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep 21 10:42:51 2002
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GLM> whereas political brochures are not; the statistics clearly show
GLM> which is the greater, more senseless, and more preventable killer.

So outside of the occasional hit by a mafia-boy, where's the killing?

If you said mind-numbing, rights destroying, cynic-making force, I'd
agree.  But, does politics really kill?

I'm bitter atm.  Two reasons mostly:
1) I was listening to what I heard being the First Amendment
Foundation? on NPR releasing a poll noting that their
very-unscientific poll found that half the population thinks the first
amendment goes too far.   And (their quote was 1 in 5, but I'm finding
sources of 1 in 4) of the population don't even know what rights are
guaranteed in the first amendment.

2) I have a paper due that will make or break my law school career.  I
hate being a forced sheep.

baaaa....
>>>>>> "R" == Russell Turpin  writes:

GLM>     R> It's difficult to measure which is the greater liability in a
GLM>     R> potential mate, religiosity or alcoholism.

GLM>     G> Or politics.









-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                            mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0733.782a236e90e0e7a55b3c67be6f7bef23.eml000066400000000000000000000056211444326627400312720ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep 21 10:42:52 2002
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And of course I forget the link that I did find.

http://www.constitutioncenter.org/sections/news/8b4.asp

Neither NPR nor the first amendment foundation seem to have the
article I was looking for declaring the study.

Even if its half true, its still frightening.

It makes me want to pass out CATO bibles...

-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                            mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0734.7dc0b0b5f6fb1977f0a146a44c4750aa.eml000066400000000000000000000066631444326627400312550ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep 21 10:42:54 2002
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Gary Lawrence Murphy:
>OK, but only if you also meant religious and alcoholic extremes ;)

Since it was my quip, I'll point out that I used
the term "alcoholism," implying addiction. I
drink. I'm not an alcoholic. Most people who drink
don't go to AA meetings. Most people who go to AA
meetings do (try very hard) not to drink.

As to religion, I think it is harmful and risky in
almost any degree. Were I single, I might consider
potential mates who partook of the less irrational
or more light-hearted religions. A Unitarian or
Buddhist might be an example of the first, a Wiccan
of the second. But someone who is both irrational
and serious about that irrationality strikes me as
a bad choice of partner, moreso than someone who
was addicted to some drug. Alcoholics and drug
addicts at least have the sense to battle their
problem, and to keep their children from suffering
it. The religious revel in their irrationality,
and want to raise their children in it. That's a
difficult difference for two parents to
reconcile.

Fortunately, I am long and happily enamored of
someone who has no religious tendencies.




_________________________________________________________________
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You around?
C

-- 
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn


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 > help me out here.
 > You around?

Barely, but don't call me Shirley.  ;-)

I'm sleeping with one eye open.

I wouldn't have married me if I'd known how extremely shallow my 
politics are.

"The ward lurks in Wisteria's maze."

Cheers,
Wayne


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0737.aa298505cb31aac78d0dbf229fc45fb9.eml000066400000000000000000002604761444326627400314350ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep 21 10:43:13 2002
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"Free trade and free markets have proven their ability to lift whole
societies out of poverty"
I'm not a socio-political/history buff - does anybody have some clear
examples?


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rohit Khare" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 5:10 PM
Subject: sed /s/United States/Roman Empire/g


> > A world where some live in comfort and plenty, while half of the human
> > race lives on less than $2 a day, is neither just nor stable.
>
> Absolutely correct. Perhaps the most fundamental thing to realize about
> life on Earth today.
>
> The following is a fascinating document of official Government policy
> that bears close reading. It is the aspirations of a wonderful nation in
> an imperfect world.
>
> >  The war on terrorism is not a clash of civilizations. It does,
> > however, reveal the clash inside a civilization, a battle for the
> > future of the Muslim world. This is a struggle of ideas and this is an
> > area where America must excel.
>
> I was recently at a lecture about the surprising success of Radio Sawa,
> our new music-and-news channel for 15-30 year old Arabs. It's #1 in
> practically every market it's entered, nearing 90% listenership in
> Amman. And it's even beginning to be trusted for news, well past BBC and
> taking share from every other government broadcaster.
>
> It is as hard to imagine America losing a war of ideas in the long-term
> as it is to imagine America making any headway at all in the short term.
>
> Many of you may disagree, but I found the document below surprisingly
> centrist. If you know the code, you can hear clearly partisan tones, re:
> ICC, Taiwan Relations Act, etc. But, still, this is as much a Democratic
> platform as not. Africa and AIDS take up more mindshare than I feared
> they might.
>
> As you read, replace "United States" with "Roman Empire" and it may make
> as much sense, in the long view of history. I don't know how proud to be
> about that, but it is telling. Sometime I daydream that the President
> might sit down with the nation with Perotista flip charts and explain to
> our citizens the sheer vastness of our 700+ military installations
> overseas and what they do for us. It would be a powerful education on
> how engaged we are in the world around us.
>
> Heck, I'd love to see a real-time map of Federal expenditures around the
> globe, a softly glowing necklace of embassies, carriers, arctic research
> stations, hotels, golf courses, warehouses, libraries, clinics and all
> the rest of the influence a trillion dollars here or there can buy.
>
> Of course, this still doesn't leave me any more comfortable with the
> real news in this document: the Bush Doctrine for pre-emptive strikes.
> I'd sooner repeal the Church amendments on covert action than permit
> such a principle to be loosed upon the world.
>
> Rohit
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
> September 20, 2002
>
> Full Text: Bush's National Security Strategy
>
> Following is the full text of President Bush's new national security
> strategy. The document, entitled "The National Security Strategy of the
> United States," will soon be transmitted to Congress as a declaration of
> the Administration's policy.
>
> INTRODUCTION
>
> THE great struggles of the twentieth century between liberty and
> totalitarianism ended with a decisive victory for the forces of
> freedom -- and a single sustainable model for national success: freedom,
> democracy, and free enterprise. In the twenty-first century, only
> nations that share a commitment to protecting basic human rights and
> guaranteeing political and economic freedom will be able to unleash the
> potential of their people and assure their future prosperity. People
> everywhere want to say what they think; choose who will govern them;
> worship as they please; educate their children -- male and female; own
> property; and enjoy the benefits of their labor. These values of freedom
> are right and true for every person, in every society -- and the duty of
> protecting these values against their enemies is the common calling of
> freedom-loving people across the globe and across the ages.
>
> Today, the United States enjoys a position of unparalleled military
> strength and great economic and political influence. In keeping with our
> heritage and principles, we do not use our strength to press for
> unilateral advantage. We seek instead to create a balance of power that
> favors human freedom: conditions in which all nations and all societies
> can choose for themselves the rewards and challenges of political and
> economic liberty. By making the world safer, we allow the people of the
> world to make their own lives better. We will defend this just peace
> against threats from terrorists and tyrants. We will preserve the peace
> by building good relations among the great powers. We will extend the
> peace by encouraging free and open societies on every continent.
>
> Defending our Nation against its enemies is the first and fundamental
> commitment of the Federal Government. Today, that task has changed
> dramatically. Enemies in the past needed great armies and great
> industrial capabilities to endanger America. Now, shadowy networks of
> individuals can bring great chaos and suffering to our shores for less
> than it costs to purchase a single tank. Terrorists are organized to
> penetrate open societies and to turn the power of modern technologies
> against us.
>
> To defeat this threat we must make use of every tool in our arsenal --
> from better homeland defenses and law enforcement to intelligence and
> cutting off terrorist financing. The war against terrorists of global
> reach is a global enterprise of uncertain duration. America will help
> nations that need our assistance in combating terror. And America will
> hold to account nations that are compromised by terror -- because the
> allies of terror are the enemies of civilization. The United States and
> countries cooperating with us must not allow the terrorists to develop
> new home bases. Together, we will seek to deny them sanctuary at every
> turn.
>
> The gravest danger our Nation faces lies at the crossroads of radicalism
> and technology. Our enemies have openly declared that they are seeking
> weapons of mass destruction, and evidence indicates that they are doing
> so with determination. The United States will not allow these efforts to
> succeed. We will build defenses against ballistic missiles and other
> means of delivery. We will cooperate with other nations to deny,
> contain, and curtail our enemies' efforts to acquire dangerous
> technologies. And, as a matter of common sense and self-defense, America
> will act against such emerging threats before they are fully formed. We
> cannot defend America and our friends by hoping for the best. So we must
> be prepared to defeat our enemies' plans, using the best intelligence
> and proceeding with deliberation. History will judge harshly those who
> saw this coming danger but failed to act. In the new world we have
> entered, the only path to safety is the path of action.
>
> As we defend the peace, we will also take advantage of an historic
> opportunity to preserve the peace. Today, the international community
> has the best chance since the rise of the nation-state in the
> seventeenth century to build a world where great powers compete in peace
> instead of continually prepare for war. Today, the world's great powers
> find ourselves on the same side -- united by common dangers of terrorist
> violence and chaos. The United States will build on these common
> interests to promote global security. We are also increasingly united by
> common values. Russia is in the midst of a hopeful transition, reaching
> for its democratic future and a partner in the war on terror. Chinese
> leaders are discovering that economic freedom is the only source of
> national wealth. In time, they will find that social and political
> freedom is the only source of national greatness. America will encourage
> the advancement of democracy and economic openness in both nations,
> because these are the best foundations for domestic stability and
> international order. We will strongly resist aggression from other great
> powers -- even as we welcome their peaceful pursuit of prosperity,
> trade, and cultural advancement.
>
> Finally, the United States will use this moment of opportunity to extend
> the benefits of freedom across the globe. We will actively work to bring
> the hope of democracy, development, free markets, and free trade to
> every corner of the world. The events of September 11, 2001, taught us
> that weak states, like Afghanistan, can pose as great a danger to our
> national interests as strong states. Poverty does not make poor people
> into terrorists and murderers. Yet poverty, weak institutions, and
> corruption can make weak states vulnerable to terrorist networks and
> drug cartels within their borders.
>
> The United States will stand beside any nation determined to build a
> better future by seeking the rewards of liberty for its people. Free
> trade and free markets have proven their ability to lift whole societies
> out of poverty -- so the United States will work with individual
> nations, entire regions, and the entire global trading community to
> build a world that trades in freedom and therefore grows in prosperity.
> The United States will deliver greater development assistance through
> the New Millennium Challenge Account to nations that govern justly,
> invest in their people, and encourage economic freedom. We will also
> continue to lead the world in efforts to reduce the terrible toll of
> AIDS and other infectious diseases.
>
> In building a balance of power that favors freedom, the United States is
> guided by the conviction that all nations have important
> responsibilities. Nations that enjoy freedom must actively fight terror.
> Nations that depend on international stability must help prevent the
> spread of weapons of mass destruction. Nations that seek international
> aid must govern themselves wisely, so that aid is well spent. For
> freedom to thrive, accountability must be expected and required.
>
> We are also guided by the conviction that no nation can build a safer,
> better world alone. Alliances and multilateral institutions can multiply
> the strength of freedom-loving nations. The United States is committed
> to lasting institutions like the United Nations, the World Trade
> Organization, the Organization of American States, and NATO as well as
> other long-standing alliances. Coalitions of the willing can augment
> these permanent institutions. In all cases, international obligations
> are to be taken seriously. They are not to be undertaken symbolically to
> rally support for an ideal without furthering its attainment.
>
> Freedom is the non-negotiable demand of human dignity; the birthright of
> every person -- in every civilization. Throughout history, freedom has
> been threatened by war and terror; it has been challenged by the
> clashing wills of powerful states and the evil designs of tyrants; and
> it has been tested by widespread poverty and disease. Today, humanity
> holds in its hands the opportunity to further freedom's triumph over all
> these foes. The United States welcomes our responsibility to lead in
> this great mission.
>
> I. Overview of America's International Strategy
>
>
> "Our Nation's cause has always been larger than our Nation's defense. We
> fight, as we always fight, for a just peace -- a peace that favors
> liberty. We will defend the peace against the threats from terrorists
> and tyrants. We will preserve the peace by building good relations among
> the great powers. And we will extend the peace by encouraging free and
> open societies on every continent."
>
>
>
>
>
>
> President Bush
> West Point, New York
> June 1, 2002
>
>
>
> The United States possesses unprecedented -- and unequaled -- strength
> and influence in the world. Sustained by faith in the principles of
> liberty, and the value of a free society, this position comes with
> unparalleled responsibilities, obligations, and opportunity. The great
> strength of this nation must be used to promote a balance of power that
> favors freedom.
>
> For most of the twentieth century, the world was divided by a great
> struggle over ideas: destructive totalitarian visions versus freedom and
> equality.
>
> That great struggle is over. The militant visions of class, nation, and
> race which promised utopia and delivered misery have been defeated and
> discredited. America is now threatened less by conquering states than we
> are by failing ones. We are menaced less by fleets and armies than by
> catastrophic technologies in the hands of the embittered few. We must
> defeat these threats to our Nation, allies, and friends.
>
> This is also a time of opportunity for America. We will work to
> translate this moment of influence into decades of peace, prosperity,
> and liberty. The U.S. national security strategy will be based on a
> distinctly American internationalism that reflects the union of our
> values and our national interests. The aim of this strategy is to help
> make the world not just safer but better. Our goals on the path to
> progress are clear: political and economic freedom, peaceful relations
> with other states, and respect for human dignity.
>
> And this path is not America's alone. It is open to all.
>
> To achieve these goals, the United States will:
>
> * champion aspirations for human dignity;
>
> * strengthen alliances to defeat global terrorism and work to prevent
> attacks against us and our friends;
>
> * work with others to defuse regional conflicts;
>
> * prevent our enemies from threatening us, our allies, and our
> friends, with weapons of mass destruction;
>
> * ignite a new era of global economic growth through free markets and
> free trade;
>
> * expand the circle of development by opening societies and building
> the infrastructure of democracy;
>
> * develop agendas for cooperative action with other main centers of
> global power; and
>
> * transform America's national security institutions to meet the
> challenges and opportunities of the twenty-first century.
>
>
> II. Champion Aspirations for Human Dignity
>
>
> "Some worry that it is somehow undiplomatic or impolite to speak the
> language of right and wrong. I disagree. Different circumstances require
> different methods, but not different moralities."
>
>
>
>
>
> President Bush
> West Point, New York
> June 1, 2002
>
>
>
> In pursuit of our goals, our first imperative is to clarify what we
> stand for: the United States must defend liberty and justice because
> these principles are right and true for all people everywhere. No nation
> owns these aspirations, and no nation is exempt from them. Fathers and
> mothers in all societies want their children to be educated and to live
> free from poverty and violence. No people on earth yearn to be
> oppressed, aspire to servitude, or eagerly await the midnight knock of
> the secret police.
>
> America must stand firmly for the nonnegotiable demands of human
> dignity: the rule of law; limits on the absolute power of the state;
> free speech; freedom of worship; equal justice; respect for women;
> religious and ethnic tolerance; and respect for private property.
>
> These demands can be met in many ways. America's constitution has served
> us well. Many other nations, with different histories and cultures,
> facing different circumstances, have successfully incorporated these
> core principles into their own systems of governance. History has not
> been kind to those nations which ignored or flouted the rights and
> aspirations of their people.
>
> Our own history is a long struggle to live up to our ideals. But even in
> our worst moments, the principles enshrined in the Declaration of
> Independence were there to guide us. As a result, America is not just a
> stronger, but is a freer and more just society.
>
> Today, these ideals are a lifeline to lonely defenders of liberty. And
> when openings arrive, we can encourage change -- as we did in central
> and eastern Europe between 1989 and 1991, or in Belgrade in 2000. When
> we see democratic processes take hold among our friends in Taiwan or in
> the Republic of Korea, and see elected leaders replace generals in Latin
> America and Africa, we see examples of how authoritarian systems can
> evolve, marrying local history and traditions with the principles we all
> cherish.
>
> Embodying lessons from our past and using the opportunity we have today,
> the national security strategy of the United States must start from
> these core beliefs and look outward for possibilities to expand liberty.
>
> Our principles will guide our government's decisions about international
> cooperation, the character of our foreign assistance, and the allocation
> of resources. They will guide our actions and our words in international
> bodies.
>
> We will:
>
> * speak out honestly about violations of the nonnegotiable demands of
> human dignity using our voice and vote in international institutions to
> advance freedom;
>
> * use our foreign aid to promote freedom and support those who
> struggle non-violently for it, ensuring that nations moving toward
> democracy are rewarded for the steps they take;
>
> * make freedom and the development of democratic institutions key
> themes in our bilateral relations, seeking solidarity and cooperation
> from other democracies while we press governments that deny human rights
> to move toward a better future; and
>
> * take special efforts to promote freedom of religion and conscience
> and defend it from encroachment by repressive governments.
>
>
> We will champion the cause of human dignity and oppose those who resist
> it.
>
> III. Strengthen Alliances to Defeat Global Terrorism and Work to Prevent
> Attacks Against Us and Our Friends
>
>
> "Just three days removed from these events, Americans do not yet have
> the distance of history. But our responsibility to history is already
> clear: to answer these attacks and rid the world of evil. War has been
> waged against us by stealth and deceit and murder. This nation is
> peaceful, but fierce when stirred to anger. The conflict was begun on
> the timing and terms of others. It will end in a way, and at an hour, of
> our choosing."
>
>
>
>
>
> President Bush
> Washington, D.C. (The National Cathedral)
> September 14, 2001
>
>
>
> The United States of America is fighting a war against terrorists of
> global reach. The enemy is not a single political regime or person or
> religion or ideology. The enemy is terrorism -- premeditated,
> politically motivated violence perpetrated against innocents.
>
> In many regions, legitimate grievances prevent the emergence of a
> lasting peace. Such grievances deserve to be, and must be, addressed
> within a political process. But no cause justifies terror. The United
> States will make no concessions to terrorist demands and strike no deals
> with them. We make no distinction between terrorists and those who
> knowingly harbor or provide aid to them.
>
> The struggle against global terrorism is different from any other war in
> our history. It will be fought on many fronts against a particularly
> elusive enemy over an extended period of time. Progress will come
> through the persistent accumulation of successes -- some seen, some
> unseen.
>
> Today our enemies have seen the results of what civilized nations can,
> and will, do against regimes that harbor, support, and use terrorism to
> achieve their political goals. Afghanistan has been liberated; coalition
> forces continue to hunt down the Taliban and al-Qaida. But it is not
> only this battlefield on which we will engage terrorists. Thousands of
> trained terrorists remain at large with cells in North America, South
> America, Europe, Africa, the Middle East, and across Asia.
>
> Our priority will be first to disrupt and destroy terrorist
> organizations of global reach and attack their leadership; command,
> control, and communications; material support; and finances. This will
> have a disabling effect upon the terrorists' ability to plan and operate.
>
> We will continue to encourage our regional partners to take up a
> coordinated effort that isolates the terrorists. Once the regional
> campaign localizes the threat to a particular state, we will help ensure
> the state has the military, law enforcement, political, and financial
> tools necessary to finish the task.
>
> The United States will continue to work with our allies to disrupt the
> financing of terrorism. We will identify and block the sources of
> funding for terrorism, freeze the assets of terrorists and those who
> support them, deny terrorists access to the international financial
> system, protect legitimate charities from being abused by terrorists,
> and prevent the movement of terrorists' assets through alternative
> financial networks.
>
> However, this campaign need not be sequential to be effective, the
> cumulative effect across all regions will help achieve the results we
> seek.
>
> We will disrupt and destroy terrorist organizations by:
>
> * direct and continuous action using all the elements of national and
> international power. Our immediate focus will be those terrorist
> organizations of global reach and any terrorist or state sponsor of
> terrorism which attempts to gain or use weapons of mass destruction
> (WMD) or their precursors;
>
> * defending the United States, the American people, and our interests
> at home and abroad by identifying and destroying the threat before it
> reaches our borders. While the United States will constantly strive to
> enlist the support of the international community, we will not hesitate
> to act alone, if necessary, to exercise our right of self-defense by
> acting preemptively against such terrorists, to prevent them from doing
> harm against our people and our country; and
>
> * denying further sponsorship, support, and sanctuary to terrorists
> by convincing or compelling states to accept their sovereign
> responsibilities.
>
>
> We will also wage a war of ideas to win the battle against international
> terrorism. This includes:
>
> * using the full influence of the United States, and working closely
> with allies and friends, to make clear that all acts of terrorism are
> illegitimate so that terrorism will be viewed in the same light as
> slavery, piracy, or genocide: behavior that no respectable government
> can condone or support and all must oppose;
>
> * supporting moderate and modern government, especially in the Muslim
> world, to ensure that the conditions and ideologies that promote
> terrorism do not find fertile ground in any nation;
>
> * diminishing the underlying conditions that spawn terrorism by
> enlisting the international community to focus its efforts and resources
> on areas most at risk; and
>
> * using effective public diplomacy to promote the free flow of
> information and ideas to kindle the hopes and aspirations of freedom of
> those in societies ruled by the sponsors of global terrorism.
>
>
> While we recognize that our best defense is a good offense we are also
> strengthening America's homeland security to protect against and deter
> attack.
>
> This Administration has proposed the largest government reorganization
> since the Truman Administration created the National Security Council
> and the Department of Defense. Centered on a new Department of Homeland
> Security and including a new unified military command and a fundamental
> reordering of the FBI, our comprehensive plan to secure the homeland
> encompasses every level of government and the cooperation of the public
> and the private sector.
>
> This strategy will turn adversity into opportunity. For example,
> emergency management systems will be better able to cope not just with
> terrorism but with all hazards. Our medical system will be strengthened
> to manage not just bioterror, but all infectious diseases and
> mass-casualty dangers. Our border controls will not just stop
> terrorists, but improve the efficient movement of legitimate traffic.
>
> While our focus is protecting America, we know that to defeat terrorism
> in today's globalized world we need support from our allies and friends.
> Wherever possible, the United States will rely on regional organizations
> and state powers to meet their obligations to fight terrorism. Where
> governments find the fight against terrorism beyond their capacities, we
> will match their willpower and their resources with whatever help we and
> our allies can provide.
>
> As we pursue the terrorists in Afghanistan, we will continue to work
> with international organizations such as the United Nations, as well as
> non-governmental organizations, and other countries to provide the
> humanitarian, political, economic, and security assistance necessary to
> rebuild Afghanistan so that it will never again abuse its people,
> threaten its neighbors, and provide a haven for terrorists
>
> In the war against global terrorism, we will never forget that we are
> ultimately fighting for our democratic values and way of life. Freedom
> and fear are at war, and there will be no quick or easy end to this
> conflict. In leading the campaign against terrorism, we are forging new,
> productive international relationships and redefining existing ones in
> ways that meet the challenges of the twenty-first century.
>
> IV. Work with Others To Defuse Regional Conflicts
>
>
> "We build a world of justice, or we will live in a world of coercion.
> The magnitude of our shared responsibilities makes our disagreements
> look so small."
>
>
>
>
>
> President Bush
> Berlin, Germany
> May 23, 2002
>
>
>
> Concerned nations must remain actively engaged in critical regional
> disputes to avoid explosive escalation and minimize human suffering. In
> an increasingly interconnected world, regional crisis can strain our
> alliances, rekindle rivalries among the major powers, and create
> horrifying affronts to human dignity. When violence erupts and states
> falter, the United States will work with friends and partners to
> alleviate suffering and restore stability.
>
> No doctrine can anticipate every circumstance in which U.S. action --
> direct or indirect -- is warranted. We have finite political, economic,
> and military resources to meet our global priorities. The United States
> will approach each case with these strategic principles in mind:
>
> * The United States should invest time and resources into building
> international relationships and institutions that can help manage local
> crises when they emerge.
>
> * The United States should be realistic about its ability to help
> those who are unwilling or unready to help themselves. Where and when
> people are ready to do their part, we will be willing to move decisively.
>
>
> Policies in several key regions offer some illustrations of how we will
> apply these principles:
>
> The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is critical because of the toll of
> human suffering, because of America's close relationship with the state
> of Israel and key Arab states, and because of that region's importance
> to other global priorities of the United States. There can be no peace
> for either side without freedom for both sides. America stands committed
> to an independent and democratic Palestine, living beside Israel in
> peace and security. Like all other people, Palestinians deserve a
> government that serves their interests, and listens to their voices, and
> counts their votes. The United States will continue to encourage all
> parties to step up to their responsibilities as we seek a just and
> comprehensive settlement to the conflict.
>
> The United States, the international donor community, and the World Bank
> stand ready to work with a reformed Palestinian government on economic
> development, increased humanitarian assistance and a program to
> establish, finance, and monitor a truly independent judiciary. If
> Palestinians embrace democracy, and the rule of law, confront
> corruption, and firmly reject terror, they can count on American support
> for the creation of a Palestinian state.
>
> Israel also has a large stake in the success of a democratic Palestine.
> Permanent occupation threatens Israel's identity and democracy. So the
> United States continues to challenge Israeli leaders to take concrete
> steps to support the emergence of a viable, credible Palestinian state.
> As there is progress towards security, Israel forces need to withdraw
> fully to positions they held prior to September 28, 2000. And consistent
> with the recommendations of the Mitchell Committee, Israeli settlement
> activity in the occupied territories must stop. As violence subsides,
> freedom of movement should be restored, permitting innocent Palestinians
> to resume work and normal life. The United States can play a crucial
> role but, ultimately, lasting peace can only come when Israelis and
> Palestinians resolve the issues and end the conflict between them.
>
> In South Asia, the United States has also emphasized the need for India
> and Pakistan to resolve their disputes. This administration invested
> time and resources building strong bilateral relations with India and
> Pakistan. These strong relations then gave us leverage to play a
> constructive role when tensions in the region became acute. With
> Pakistan, our bilateral relations have been bolstered by Pakistan's
> choice to join the war against terror and move toward building a more
> open and tolerant society. The Administration sees India's potential to
> become one of the great democratic powers of the twenty-first century
> and has worked hard to transform our relationship accordingly. Our
> involvement in this regional dispute, building on earlier investments in
> bilateral relations, looks first to concrete steps by India and Pakistan
> that can help defuse military confrontation.
>
> Indonesia took courageous steps to create a working democracy and
> respect for the rule of law. By tolerating ethnic minorities, respecting
> the rule of law, and accepting open markets, Indonesia may be able to
> employ the engine of opportunity that has helped lift some of its
> neighbors out of poverty and desperation. It is the initiative by
> Indonesia that allows U.S. assistance to make a difference.
>
> In the Western Hemisphere we have formed flexible coalitions with
> countries that share our priorities, particularly Mexico, Brazil,
> Canada, Chile, and Colombia. Together we will promote a truly democratic
> hemisphere where our integration advances security, prosperity,
> opportunity, and hope. We will work with regional institutions, such as
> the Summit of the Americas process, the Organization of American States
> (OAS), and the Defense Ministerial of the Americas for the benefit of
> the entire hemisphere.
>
> Parts of Latin America confront regional conflict, especially arising
> from the violence of drug cartels and their accomplices. This conflict
> and unrestrained narcotics trafficking could imperil the health and
> security of the United States. Therefore we have developed an active
> strategy to help the Andean nations adjust their economies, enforce
> their laws, defeat terrorist organizations, and cut off the supply of
> drugs, while -- as important -- we work to reduce the demand for drugs
> in our own country.
>
> In Colombia, we recognize the link between terrorist and extremist
> groups that challenge the security of the state and drug trafficking
> activities that help finance the operations of such groups. We are
> working to help Colombia defend its democratic institutions and defeat
> illegal armed groups of both the left and right by extending effective
> sovereignty over the entire national territory and provide basic
> security to the Colombian people.
>
> In Africa, promise and opportunity sit side by side with disease, war,
> and desperate poverty. This threatens both a core value of the United
> States -- preserving human dignity -- and our strategic priority --
> combating global terror. American interests and American principles,
> therefore, lead in the same direction: we will work with others for an
> African continent that lives in liberty, peace, and growing prosperity.
> Together with our European allies, we must help strengthen Africa's
> fragile states, help build indigenous capability to secure porous
> borders, and help build up the law enforcement and intelligence
> infrastructure to deny havens for terrorists.
>
> An ever more lethal environment exists in Africa as local civil wars
> spread beyond borders to create regional war zones. Forming coalitions
> of the willing and cooperative security arrangements are key to
> confronting these emerging transnational threats.
>
> Africa's great size and diversity requires a security strategy that
> focuses bilateral engagement, and builds coalitions of the willing. This
> administration will focus on three interlocking strategies for the
> region:
>
> * countries with major impact on their neighborhood such as South
> Africa, Nigeria, Kenya, and Ethiopia are anchors for regional engagement
> and require focused attention;
>
> * coordination with European allies and international institutions is
> essential for constructive conflict mediation and successful peace
> operations; and
>
> * Africa's capable reforming states and sub-regional organizations
> must be strengthened as the primary means to address transnational
> threats on a sustained basis.
>
>
> Ultimately the path of political and economic freedom presents the
> surest route to progress in sub-Saharan Africa, where most wars are
> conflicts over material resources and political access often tragically
> waged on the basis of ethnic and religious difference. The transition to
> the African Union with its stated commitment to good governance and a
> common responsibility for democratic political systems offers
> opportunities to strengthen democracy on the continent.
>
> V. Prevent Our Enemies from Threatening Us, Our Allies, and Our Friends
> with Weapons of Mass Destruction
>
>
> "The gravest danger to freedom lies at the crossroads of radicalism and
> technology. When the spread of chemical and biological and nuclear
> weapons, along with ballistic missile technology -- when that occurs,
> even weak states and small groups could attain a catastrophic power to
> strike great nations. Our enemies have declared this very intention, and
> have been caught seeking these terrible weapons. They want the
> capability to blackmail us, or to harm us, or to harm our friends -- and
> we will oppose them with all our power."
>
>
>
>
>
> President Bush
> West Point, New York
> June 1, 2002
>
>
>
> The nature of the Cold War threat required the United States -- with our
> allies and friends -- to emphasize deterrence of the enemy's use of
> force, producing a grim strategy of mutual assured destruction. With the
> collapse of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War, our security
> environment has undergone profound transformation.
>
> Having moved from confrontation to cooperation as the hallmark of our
> relationship with Russia, the dividends are evident: an end to the
> balance of terror that divided us; an historic reduction in the nuclear
> arsenals on both sides; and cooperation in areas such as
> counterterrorism and missile defense that until recently were
> inconceivable.
>
> But new deadly challenges have emerged from rogue states and terrorists.
> None of these contemporary threats rival the sheer destructive power
> that was arrayed against us by the Soviet Union. However, the nature and
> motivations of these new adversaries, their determination to obtain
> destructive powers hitherto available only to the world's strongest
> states, and the greater likelihood that they will use weapons of mass
> destruction against us, make today's security environment more complex
> and dangerous.
>
> In the 1990s we witnessed the emergence of a small number of rogue
> states that, while different in important ways, share a number of
> attributes. These states:
>
> * brutalize their own people and squander their national resources
> for the personal gain of the rulers;
>
> * display no regard for international law, threaten their neighbors,
> and callously violate international treaties to which they are party;
>
> * are determined to acquire weapons of mass destruction, along with
> other advanced military technology, to be used as threats or offensively
> to achieve the aggressive designs of these regimes;
>
> * sponsor terrorism around the globe; and
>
> * reject basic human values and hate the United States and everything
> for which it stands.
>
>
> At the time of the Gulf War, we acquired irrefutable proof that Iraq's
> designs were not limited to the chemical weapons it had used against
> Iran and its own people, but also extended to the acquisition of nuclear
> weapons and biological agents. In the past decade North Korea has become
> the world's principal purveyor of ballistic missiles, and has tested
> increasingly capable missiles while developing its own WMD arsenal.
> Other rogue regimes seek nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons as
> well. These states' pursuit of, and global trade in, such weapons has
> become a looming threat to all nations.
>
> We must be prepared to stop rogue states and their terrorist clients
> before they are able to threaten or use weapons of mass destruction
> against the United States and our allies and friends. Our response must
> take full advantage of strengthened alliances, the establishment of new
> partnerships with former adversaries, innovation in the use of military
> forces, modern technologies, including the development of an effective
> missile defense system, and increased emphasis on intelligence
> collection and analysis.
>
> Our comprehensive strategy to combat WMD includes:
>
> * Proactive counterproliferation efforts. We must deter and defend
> against the threat before it is unleashed. We must ensure that key
> capabilities -- detection, active and passive defenses, and counterforce
> capabilities -- are integrated into our defense transformation and our
> homeland security systems. Counterproliferation must also be integrated
> into the doctrine, training, and equipping of our forces and those of
> our allies to ensure that we can prevail in any conflict with WMD-armed
> adversaries.
>
> * Strengthened nonproliferation efforts to prevent rogue states and
> terrorists from acquiring the materials, technologies and expertise
> necessary for weapons of mass destruction. We will enhance diplomacy,
> arms control, multilateral export controls, and threat reduction
> assistance that impede states and terrorists seeking WMD, and when
> necessary, interdict enabling technologies and materials. We will
> continue to build coalitions to support these efforts, encouraging their
> increased political and financial support for nonproliferation and
> threat reduction programs. The recent G-8 agreement to commit up to $20
> billion to a global partnership against proliferation marks a major step
> forward.
>
> * Effective consequence management to respond to the effects of WMD
> use, whether by terrorists or hostile states. Minimizing the effects of
> WMD use against our people will help deter those who possess such
> weapons and dissuade those who seek to acquire them by persuading
> enemies that they cannot attain their desired ends. The United States
> must also be prepared to respond to the effects of WMD use against our
> forces abroad, and to help friends and allies if they are attacked.
>
>
> It has taken almost a decade for us to comprehend the true nature of
> this new threat. Given the goals of rogue states and terrorists, the
> United States can no longer solely rely on a reactive posture as we have
> in the past. The inability to deter a potential attacker, the immediacy
> of today's threats, and the magnitude of potential harm that could be
> caused by our adversaries' choice of weapons, do not permit that option.
> We cannot let our enemies strike first.
>
> * In the Cold War, especially following the Cuban missile crisis, we
> faced a generally status quo, risk-averse adversary. Deterrence was an
> effective defense. But deterrence based only upon the threat of
> retaliation is far less likely to work against leaders of rogue states
> more willing to take risks, gambling with the lives of their people, and
> the wealth of their nations.
>
> * In the Cold War, weapons of mass destruction were considered
> weapons of last resort whose use risked the destruction of those who
> used them. Today, our enemies see weapons of mass destruction as weapons
> of choice. For rogue states these weapons are tools of intimidation and
> military aggression against their neighbors. These weapons may also
> allow these states to attempt to blackmail the United States and our
> allies to prevent us from deterring or repelling the aggressive behavior
> of rogue states. Such states also see these weapons as their best means
> of overcoming the conventional superiority of the United States.
>
> * Traditional concepts of deterrence will not work against a
> terrorist enemy whose avowed tactics are wanton destruction and the
> targeting of innocents; whose so-called soldiers seek martyrdom in death
> and whose most potent protection is statelessness. The overlap between
> states that sponsor terror and those that pursue WMD compels us to
> action.
>
>
> For centuries, international law recognized that nations need not suffer
> an attack before they can lawfully take action to defend themselves
> against forces that present an imminent danger of attack. Legal scholars
> and international jurists often conditioned the legitimacy of preemption
> on the existence of an imminent threat -- most often a visible
> mobilization of armies, navies, and air forces preparing to attack.
>
> We must adapt the concept of imminent threat to the capabilities and
> objectives of today's adversaries. Rogue states and terrorists do not
> seek to attack us using conventional means. They know such attacks would
> fail. Instead, they rely on acts of terrorism and, potentially, the use
> of weapons of mass destruction -- weapons that can be easily concealed
> and delivered covertly and without warning.
>
> The targets of these attacks are our military forces and our civilian
> population, in direct violation of one of the principal norms of the law
> of warfare. As was demonstrated by the losses on September 11, 2001,
> mass civilian casualties is the specific objective of terrorists and
> these losses would be exponentially more severe if terrorists acquired
> and used weapons of mass destruction.
>
> The United States has long maintained the option of preemptive actions
> to counter a sufficient threat to our national security. The greater the
> threat, the greater is the risk of inaction -- and the more compelling
> the case for taking anticipatory action to defend ourselves, even if
> uncertainty remains as to the time and place of the enemy's attack. To
> forestall or prevent such hostile acts by our adversaries, the United
> States will, if necessary, act preemptively.
>
> The United States will not use force in all cases to preempt emerging
> threats, nor should nations use preemption as a pretext for aggression.
> Yet in an age where the enemies of civilization openly and actively seek
> the world's most destructive technologies, the United States cannot
> remain idle while dangers gather.
>
> We will always proceed deliberately, weighing the consequences of our
> actions. To support preemptive options, we will:
>
> * build better, more integrated intelligence capabilities to provide
> timely, accurate information on threats, wherever they may emerge;
>
> * coordinate closely with allies to form a common assessment of the
> most dangerous threats; and
>
> * continue to transform our military forces to ensure our ability to
> conduct rapid and precise operations to achieve decisive results.
>
>
> The purpose of our actions will always be to eliminate a specific threat
> to the United States or our allies and friends. The reasons for our
> actions will be clear, the force measured, and the cause just.
>
> VI. Ignite a New Era of Global Economic Growth through Free Markets and
> Free Trade.
>
>
> "When nations close their markets and opportunity is hoarded by a
> privileged few, no amount -- no amount -- of development aid is ever
> enough. When nations respect their people, open markets, invest in
> better health and education, every dollar of aid, every dollar of trade
> revenue and domestic capital is used more effectively."
>
>
>
>
>
> President Bush
> Monterrey, Mexico
> March 22, 2002
>
>
>
> A strong world economy enhances our national security by advancing
> prosperity and freedom in the rest of the world. Economic growth
> supported by free trade and free markets creates new jobs and higher
> incomes. It allows people to lift their lives out of poverty, spurs
> economic and legal reform, and the fight against corruption, and it
> reinforces the habits of liberty.
>
> We will promote economic growth and economic freedom beyond America's
> shores. All governments are responsible for creating their own economic
> policies and responding to their own economic challenge. We will use our
> economic engagement with other countries to underscore the benefits of
> policies that generate higher productivity and sustained economic
> growth, including:
>
> * pro-growth legal and regulatory policies to encourage business
> investment, innovation, and entrepreneurial activity;
>
> * tax policies -- particularly lower marginal tax rates -- that
> improve incentives for work and investment;
>
> * rule of law and intolerance of corruption so that people are
> confident that they will be able to enjoy the fruits of their economic
> endeavors;
>
> * strong financial systems that allow capital to be put to its most
> efficient use;
>
> * sound fiscal policies to support business activity;
>
> * investments in health and education that improve the well-being and
> skills of the labor force and population as a whole; and
>
> * free trade that provides new avenues for growth and fosters the
> diffusion of technologies and ideas that increase productivity and
> opportunity.
>
>
> The lessons of history are clear: market economies, not
> command-and-control economies with the heavy hand of government, are the
> best way to promote prosperity and reduce poverty. Policies that further
> strengthen market incentives and market institutions are relevant for
> all economies -- industrialized countries, emerging markets, and the
> developing world.
>
> A return to strong economic growth in Europe and Japan is vital to U.S.
> national security interests. We want our allies to have strong economies
> for their own sake, for the sake of the global economy, and for the sake
> of global security. European efforts to remove structural barriers in
> their economies are particularly important in this regard, as are
> Japan's efforts to end deflation and address the problems of
> non-performing loans in the Japanese banking system. We will continue to
> use our regular consultations with Japan and our European partners --
> including through the Group of Seven (G-7) -- to discuss policies they
> are adopting to promote growth in their economies and support higher
> global economic growth.
>
> Improving stability in emerging markets is also key to global economic
> growth. International flows of investment capital are needed to expand
> the productive potential of these economies. These flows allow emerging
> markets and developing countries to make the investments that raise
> living standards and reduce poverty. Our long-term objective should be a
> world in which all countries have investment-grade credit ratings that
> allow them access to international capital markets and to invest in
> their future.
>
> We are committed to policies that will help emerging markets achieve
> access to larger capital flows at lower cost. To this end, we will
> continue to pursue reforms aimed at reducing uncertainty in financial
> markets. We will work actively with other countries, the International
> Monetary Fund (IMF), and the private sector to implement the G-7 Action
> Plan negotiated earlier this year for preventing financial crises and
> more effectively resolving them when they occur.
>
> The best way to deal with financial crises is to prevent them from
> occurring, and we have encouraged the IMF to improve its efforts doing
> so. We will continue to work with the IMF to streamline the policy
> conditions for its lending and to focus its lending strategy on
> achieving economic growth through sound fiscal and monetary policy,
> exchange rate policy, and financial sector policy.
>
> The concept of "free trade" arose as a moral principle even before it
> became a pillar of economics. If you can make something that others
> value, you should be able to sell it to them. If others make something
> that you value, you should be able to buy it. This is real freedom, the
> freedom for a person -- or a nation -- to make a living. To promote free
> trade, the Unites States has developed a comprehensive strategy:
>
> * Seize the global initiative. The new global trade negotiations we
> helped launch at Doha in November 2001 will have an ambitious agenda,
> especially in agriculture, manufacturing, and services, targeted for
> completion in 2005. The United States has led the way in completing the
> accession of China and a democratic Taiwan to the World Trade
> Organization. We will assist Russia's preparations to join the WTO.
>
> * Press regional initiatives. The United States and other democracies
> in the Western Hemisphere have agreed to create the Free Trade Area of
> the Americas, targeted for completion in 2005. This year the United
> States will advocate market-access negotiations with its partners,
> targeted on agriculture, industrial goods, services, investment, and
> government procurement. We will also offer more opportunity to the
> poorest continent, Africa, starting with full use of the preferences
> allowed in the African Growth and Opportunity Act, and leading to free
> trade.
>
> * Move ahead with bilateral free trade agreements. Building on the
> free trade agreement with Jordan enacted in 2001, the Administration
> will work this year to complete free trade agreements with Chile and
> Singapore. Our aim is to achieve free trade agreements with a mix of
> developed and developing countries in all regions of the world.
> Initially, Central America, Southern Africa, Morocco, and Australia will
> be our principal focal points.
>
> * Renew the executive-congressional partnership. Every
> administration's trade strategy depends on a productive partnership with
> Congress. After a gap of 8 years, the Administration reestablished
> majority support in the Congress for trade liberalization by passing
> Trade Promotion Authority and the other market opening measures for
> developing countries in the Trade Act of 2002. This Administration will
> work with Congress to enact new bilateral, regional, and global trade
> agreements that will be concluded under the recently passed Trade
> Promotion Authority.
>
> * Promote the connection between trade and development. Trade
> policies can help developing countries strengthen property rights,
> competition, the rule of law, investment, the spread of knowledge, open
> societies, the efficient allocation of resources, and regional
> integration -- all leading to growth, opportunity, and confidence in
> developing countries. The United States is implementing The Africa
> Growth and Opportunity Act to provide market-access for nearly all goods
> produced in the 35 countries of sub-Saharan Africa. We will make more
> use of this act and its equivalent for the Caribbean Basin and continue
> to work with multilateral and regional institutions to help poorer
> countries take advantage of these opportunities. Beyond market access,
> the most important area where trade intersects with poverty is in public
> health. We will ensure that the WTO intellectual property rules are
> flexible enough to allow developing nations to gain access to critical
> medicines for extraordinary dangers like HIV/AIDS, tuberculosis, and
> malaria.
>
> * Enforce trade agreements and laws against unfair practices.
> Commerce depends on the rule of law; international trade depends on
> enforceable agreements. Our top priorities are to resolve ongoing
> disputes with the European Union, Canada, and Mexico and to make a
> global effort to address new technology, science, and health regulations
> that needlessly impede farm exports and improved agriculture. Laws
> against unfair trade practices are often abused, but the international
> community must be able to address genuine concerns about government
> subsidies and dumping. International industrial espionage which
> undermines fair competition must be detected and deterred.
>
> * Help domestic industries and workers adjust. There is a sound
> statutory framework for these transitional safeguards which we have used
> in the agricultural sector and which we are using this year to help the
> American steel industry. The benefits of free trade depend upon the
> enforcement of fair trading practices. These safeguards help ensure that
> the benefits of free trade do not come at the expense of American
> workers. Trade adjustment assistance will help workers adapt to the
> change and dynamism of open markets.
>
> * Protect the environment and workers. The United States must foster
> economic growth in ways that will provide a better life along with
> widening prosperity. We will incorporate labor and environmental
> concerns into U.S. trade negotiations, creating a healthy "network"
> between multilateral environmental agreements with the WTO, and use the
> International Labor Organization, trade preference programs, and trade
> talks to improve working conditions in conjunction with freer trade.
>
> * Enhance energy security. We will strengthen our own energy security
> and the shared prosperity of the global economy by working with our
> allies, trading partners, and energy producers to expand the sources and
> types of global energy supplied, especially in the Western Hemisphere,
> Africa, Central Asia, and the Caspian region. We will also continue to
> work with our partners to develop cleaner and more energy efficient
> technologies.
>
>
> Economic growth should be accompanied by global efforts to stabilize
> greenhouse gas concentrations associated with this growth, containing
> them at a level that prevents dangerous human interference with the
> global climate. Our overall objective is to reduce America's greenhouse
> gas emissions relative to the size of our economy, cutting such
> emissions per unit of economic activity by 18 percent over the next 10
> years, by the year 2012. Our strategies for attaining this goal will be
> to:
>
> * remain committed to the basic U.N. Framework Convention for
> international cooperation;
>
> * obtain agreements with key industries to cut emissions of some of
> the most potent greenhouse gases and give transferable credits to
> companies that can show real cuts;
>
> * develop improved standards for measuring and registering emission
> reductions;
>
> * promote renewable energy production and clean coal technology, as
> well as nuclear power -- which produces no greenhouse gas emissions,
> while also improving fuel economy for U.S. cars and trucks;
>
> * increase spending on research and new conservation technologies, to
> a total of $4.5 billion -- the largest sum being spent on climate change
> by any country in the world and a $700 million increase over last year's
> budget; and
>
> * assist developing countries, especially the major greenhouse gas
> emitters such as China and India, so that they will have the tools and
> resources to join this effort and be able to grow along a cleaner and
> better path.
>
>
> VII. Expand the Circle of Development by Opening Societies and Building
> the Infrastructure of Democracy
>
>
> "In World War II we fought to make the world safer, then worked to
> rebuild it. As we wage war today to keep the world safe from terror, we
> must also work to make the world a better place for all its citizens."
>
>
>
>
>
> President Bush
> Washington, D.C. (Inter-American
> Development Bank)
> March 14, 2002
>
>
>
> A world where some live in comfort and plenty, while half of the human
> race lives on less than $2 a day, is neither just nor stable. Including
> all of the world's poor in an expanding circle of development -- and
> opportunity -- is a moral imperative and one of the top priorities of
> U.S. international policy.
>
> Decades of massive development assistance have failed to spur economic
> growth in the poorest countries. Worse, development aid has often served
> to prop up failed policies, relieving the pressure for reform and
> perpetuating misery. Results of aid are typically measured in dollars
> spent by donors, not in the rates of growth and poverty reduction
> achieved by recipients. These are the indicators of a failed strategy.
>
> Working with other nations, the United States is confronting this
> failure. We forged a new consensus at the U.N. Conference on Financing
> for Development in Monterrey that the objectives of assistance -- and
> the strategies to achieve those objectives -- must change.
>
> This Administration's goal is to help unleash the productive potential
> of individuals in all nations. Sustained growth and poverty reduction is
> impossible without the right national policies. Where governments have
> implemented real policy changes we will provide significant new levels
> of assistance. The United States and other developed countries should
> set an ambitious and specific target: to double the size of the world's
> poorest economies within a decade.
>
> The United States Government will pursue these major strategies to
> achieve this goal:
>
> * Provide resources to aid countries that have met the challenge of
> national reform. We propose a 50 percent increase in the core
> development assistance given by the United States. While continuing our
> present programs, including humanitarian assistance based on need alone,
> these billions of new dollars will form a new Millennium Challenge
> Account for projects in countries whose governments rule justly, invest
> in their people, and encourage economic freedom. Governments must fight
> corruption, respect basic human rights, embrace the rule of law, invest
> in health care and education, follow responsible economic policies, and
> enable entrepreneurship. The Millennium Challenge Account will reward
> countries that have demonstrated real policy change and challenge those
> that have not to implement reforms.
>
> * Improve the effectiveness of the World Bank and other development
> banks in raising living standards. The United States is committed to a
> comprehensive reform agenda for making the World Bank and the other
> multilateral development banks more effective in improving the lives of
> the world's poor. We have reversed the downward trend in U.S.
> contributions and proposed an 18 percent increase in the U.S.
> contributions to the International Development Association (IDA) -- the
> World Bank's fund for the poorest countries -- and the African
> Development Fund. The key to raising living standards and reducing
> poverty around the world is increasing productivity growth, especially
> in the poorest countries. We will continue to press the multilateral
> development banks to focus on activities that increase economic
> productivity, such as improvements in education, health, rule of law,
> and private sector development. Every project, every loan, every grant
> must be judged by how much it will increase productivity growth in
> developing countries.
>
> * Insist upon measurable results to ensure that development
> assistance is actually making a difference in the lives of the world's
> poor. When it comes to economic development, what really matters is that
> more children are getting a better education, more people have access to
> health care and clean water, or more workers can find jobs to make a
> better future for their families. We have a moral obligation to measure
> the success of our development assistance by whether it is delivering
> results. For this reason, we will continue to demand that our own
> development assistance as well as assistance from the multilateral
> development banks has measurable goals and concrete benchmarks for
> achieving those goals. Thanks to U.S. leadership, the recent IDA
> replenishment agreement will establish a monitoring and evaluation
> system that measures recipient countries' progress. For the first time,
> donors can link a portion of their contributions to IDA to the
> achievement of actual development results, and part of the U.S.
> contribution is linked in this way. We will strive to make sure that the
> World Bank and other multilateral development banks build on this
> progress so that a focus on results is an integral part of everything
> that these institutions do.
>
> * Increase the amount of development assistance that is provided in
> the form of grants instead of loans. Greater use of results-based grants
> is the best way to help poor countries make productive investments,
> particularly in the social sectors, without saddling them with
> ever-larger debt burdens. As a result of U.S. leadership, the recent IDA
> agreement provided for significant increases in grant funding for the
> poorest countries for education, HIV/AIDS, health, nutrition, water,
> sanitation, and other human needs. Our goal is to build on that progress
> by increasing the use of grants at the other multilateral development
> banks. We will also challenge universities, nonprofits, and the private
> sector to match government efforts by using grants to support
> development projects that show results.
>
> * Open societies to commerce and investment. Trade and investment are
> the real engines of economic growth. Even if government aid increases,
> most money for development must come from trade, domestic capital, and
> foreign investment. An effective strategy must try to expand these flows
> as well. Free markets and free trade are key priorities of our national
> security strategy.
>
> * Secure public health. The scale of the public health crisis in poor
> countries is enormous. In countries afflicted by epidemics and pandemics
> like HIV/AIDS, malaria, and tuberculosis, growth and development will be
> threatened until these scourges can be contained. Resources from the
> developed world are necessary but will be effective only with honest
> governance, which supports prevention programs and provides effective
> local infrastructure. The United States has strongly backed the new
> global fund for HIV/AIDS organized by U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan
> and its focus on combining prevention with a broad strategy for
> treatment and care. The United States already contributes more than
> twice as much money to such efforts as the next largest donor. If the
> global fund demonstrates its promise, we will be ready to give even more.
>
> * Emphasize education. Literacy and learning are the foundation of
> democracy and development. Only about 7 percent of World Bank resources
> are devoted to education. This proportion should grow. The United States
> will increase its own funding for education assistance by at least 20
> percent with an emphasis on improving basic education and teacher
> training in Africa. The United States can also bring information
> technology to these societies, many of whose education systems have been
> devastated by AIDS.
>
> * Continue to aid agricultural development. New technologies,
> including biotechnology, have enormous potential to improve crop yields
> in developing countries while using fewer pesticides and less water.
> Using sound science, the United States should help bring these benefits
> to the 800 million people, including 300 million children, who still
> suffer from hunger and malnutrition.
>
>
> VIII. Develop Agendas for Cooperative Action with the Other Main Centers
> of Global Power
>
>
> "We have our best chance since the rise of the nation-state in the 17th
> century to build a world where the great powers compete in peace instead
> of prepare for war."
>
>
>
>
>
> President Bush
> West Point, New York
> June 1, 2002
>
>
>
> America will implement its strategies by organizing coalitions -- as
> broad as practicable -- of states able and willing to promote a balance
> of power that favors freedom. Effective coalition leadership requires
> clear priorities, an appreciation of others' interests, and consistent
> consultations among partners with a spirit of humility.
>
> There is little of lasting consequence that the United States can
> accomplish in the world without the sustained cooperation of its allies
> and friends in Canada and Europe. Europe is also the seat of two of the
> strongest and most able international institutions in the world: the
> North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), which has, since its
> inception, been the fulcrum of transatlantic and inter-European
> security, and the European Union (EU), our partner in opening world
> trade.
>
> The attacks of September 11 were also an attack on NATO, as NATO itself
> recognized when it invoked its Article V self-defense clause for the
> first time. NATO's core mission -- collective defense of the
> transatlantic alliance of democracies -- remains, but NATO must develop
> new structures and capabilities to carry out that mission under new
> circumstances. NATO must build a capability to field, at short notice,
> highly mobile, specially trained forces whenever they are needed to
> respond to a threat against any member of the alliance.
>
> The alliance must be able to act wherever our interests are threatened,
> creating coalitions under NATO's own mandate, as well as contributing to
> mission-based coalitions. To achieve this, we must:
>
> * expand NATO's membership to those democratic nations willing and
> able to share the burden of defending and advancing our common interests;
>
> * ensure that the military forces of NATO nations have appropriate
> combat contributions to make in coalition warfare;
>
> * develop planning processes to enable those contributions to become
> effective multinational fighting forces;
>
> * take advantage of the technological opportunities and economies of
> scale in our defense spending to transform NATO military forces so that
> they dominate potential aggressors and diminish our vulnerabilities;
>
> * streamline and increase the flexibility of command structures to
> meet new operational demands and the associated requirements of
> training, integrating, and experimenting with new force configurations;
> and
>
> * maintain the ability to work and fight together as allies even as
> we take the necessary steps to transform and modernize our forces.
>
>
> If NATO succeeds in enacting these changes, the rewards will be a
> partnership as central to the security and interests of its member
> states as was the case during the Cold War. We will sustain a common
> perspective on the threats to our societies and improve our ability to
> take common action in defense of our nations and their interests. At the
> same time, we welcome our European allies' efforts to forge a greater
> foreign policy and defense identity with the EU, and commit ourselves to
> close consultations to ensure that these developments work with NATO. We
> cannot afford to lose this opportunity to better prepare the family of
> transatlantic democracies for the challenges to come.
>
> The attacks of September 11 energized America's Asian alliances.
> Australia invoked the ANZUS Treaty to declare the September 11 was an
> attack on Australia itself, following that historic decision with the
> dispatch of some of the world's finest combat forces for Operation
> Enduring Freedom. Japan and the Republic of Korea provided unprecedented
> levels of military logistical support within weeks of the terrorist
> attack. We have deepened cooperation on counter-terrorism with our
> alliance partners in Thailand and the Philippines and received
> invaluable assistance from close friends like Singapore and New Zealand.
>
> The war against terrorism has proven that America's alliances in Asia
> not only underpin regional peace and stability, but are flexible and
> ready to deal with new challenges. To enhance our Asian alliances and
> friendships, we will:
>
>
> * look to Japan to continue forging a leading role in regional and
> global affairs based on our common interests, our common values, and our
> close defense and diplomatic cooperation;
>
> * work with South Korea to maintain vigilance towards the North while
> preparing our alliance to make contributions to the broader stability of
> the region over the longer-term;
>
> * build on 50 years of U.S.-Australian alliance cooperation as we
> continue working together to resolve regional and global problems -- as
> we have so many times from the Battle of Leyte Gulf to Tora Bora;
>
> * maintain forces in the region that reflect our commitments to our
> allies, our requirements, our technological advances, and the strategic
> environment; and
>
> * build on stability provided by these alliances, as well as with
> institutions such as ASEAN and the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation
> forum, to develop a mix of regional and bilateral strategies to manage
> change in this dynamic region.
>
>
> We are attentive to the possible renewal of old patterns of great power
> competition. Several potential great powers are now in the midst of
> internal transition -- most importantly Russia, India, and China. In all
> three cases, recent developments have encouraged our hope that a truly
> global consensus about basic principles is slowly taking shape.
>
> With Russia, we are already building a new strategic relationship based
> on a central reality of the twenty-first century: the United States and
> Russia are no longer strategic adversaries. The Moscow Treaty on
> Strategic Reductions is emblematic of this new reality and reflects a
> critical change in Russian thinking that promises to lead to productive,
> long-term relations with the Euro-Atlantic community and the United
> States. Russia's top leaders have a realistic assessment of their
> country's current weakness and the policies -- internal and external --
> needed to reverse those weaknesses. They understand, increasingly, that
> Cold War approaches do not serve their national interests and that
> Russian and American strategic interests overlap in many areas.
>
> United States policy seeks to use this turn in Russian thinking to
> refocus our relationship on emerging and potential common interests and
> challenges. We are broadening our already extensive cooperation in the
> global war on terrorism. We are facilitating Russia's entry into the
> World Trade Organization, without lowering standards for accession, to
> promote beneficial bilateral trade and investment relations. We have
> created the NATO-Russia Council with the goal of deepening security
> cooperation among Russia, our European allies, and ourselves. We will
> continue to bolster the independence and stability of the states of the
> former Soviet Union in the belief that a prosperous and stable
> neighborhood will reinforce Russia's growing commitment to integration
> into the Euro-Atlantic community.
>
> At the same time, we are realistic about the differences that still
> divide us from Russia and about the time and effort it will take to
> build an enduring strategic partnership. Lingering distrust of our
> motives and policies by key Russian elites slows improvement in our
> relations. Russia's uneven commitment to the basic values of free-market
> democracy and dubious record in combating the proliferation of weapons
> of mass destruction remain matters of great concern. Russia's very
> weakness limits the opportunities for cooperation. Nevertheless, those
> opportunities are vastly greater now than in recent years -- or even
> decades.
>
> The United States has undertaken a transformation in its bilateral
> relationship with India based on a conviction that U.S. interests
> require a strong relationship with India. We are the two largest
> democracies, committed to political freedom protected by representative
> government. India is moving toward greater economic freedom as well. We
> have a common interest in the free flow of commerce, including through
> the vital sea lanes of the Indian Ocean. Finally, we share an interest
> in fighting terrorism and in creating a strategically stable Asia.
>
> Differences remain, including over the development of India's nuclear
> and missile programs, and the pace of India's economic reforms. But
> while in the past these concerns may have dominated our thinking about
> India, today we start with a view of India as a growing world power with
> which we have common strategic interests. Through a strong partnership
> with India, we can best address any differences and shape a dynamic
> future.
>
> The United States relationship with China is an important part of our
> strategy to promote a stable, peaceful, and prosperous Asia-Pacific
> region. We welcome the emergence of a strong, peaceful, and prosperous
> China. The democratic development of China is crucial to that future.
> Yet, a quarter century after beginning the process of shedding the worst
> features of the Communist legacy, China's leaders have not yet made the
> next series of fundamental choices about the character of their state.
> In pursuing advanced military capabilities that can threaten its
> neighbors in the Asia-Pacific region, China is following an outdated
> path that, in the end, will hamper its own pursuit of national
> greatness. In time, China will find that social and political freedom is
> the only source of that greatness.
>
> The United States seeks a constructive relationship with a changing
> China. We already cooperate well where our interests overlap, including
> the current war on terrorism and in promoting stability on the Korean
> peninsula. Likewise, we have coordinated on the future of Afghanistan
> and have initiated a comprehensive dialogue on counter-terrorism and
> similar transitional concerns. Shared health and environmental threats,
> such as the spread of HIV/AIDS, challenge us to promote jointly the
> welfare of our citizens.
>
> Addressing these transnational threats will challenge China to become
> more open with information, promote the development of civil society,
> and enhance individual human rights. China has begun to take the road to
> political openness, permitting many personal freedoms and conducting
> village-level elections, yet remains strongly committed to national
> one-party rule by the Communist Party. To make that nation truly
> accountable to its citizen's needs and aspirations, however, much work
> remains to be done. Only by allowing the Chinese people to think,
> assemble, and worship freely can China reach its full potential.
>
> Our important trade relationship will benefit from China's entry into
> the World Trade Organization, which will create more export
> opportunities and ultimately more jobs for American farmers, workers,
> and companies. China is our fourth largest trading partner, with over
> $100 billion in annual two-way trade. The power of market principles and
> the WTO's requirements for transparency and accountability will advance
> openness and the rule of law in China to help establish basic
> protections for commerce and for citizens. There are, however, other
> areas in which we have profound disagreements. Our commitment to the
> self-defense of Taiwan under the Taiwan Relations Act is one. Human
> rights is another. We expect China to adhere to its nonproliferation
> commitments. We will work to narrow differences where they exist, but
> not allow them to preclude cooperation where we agree.
>
> The events of September 11, 2001, fundamentally changed the context for
> relations between the United States and other main centers of global
> power, and opened vast, new opportunities. With our long-standing allies
> in Europe and Asia, and with leaders in Russia, India, and China, we
> must develop active agendas of cooperation lest these relationships
> become routine and unproductive.
>
> Every agency of the United States Government shares the challenge. We
> can build fruitful habits of consultation, quiet argument, sober
> analysis, and common action. In the long-term, these are the practices
> that will sustain the supremacy of our common principles and keep open
> the path of progress.
>
> IX. Transform America's National Security Institutions to Meet the
> Challenges and Opportunities of the Twenty-First Century
>
>
> "Terrorists attacked a symbol of American prosperity. They did not touch
> its source. America is successful because of the hard work, creativity,
> and enterprise of our people."
>
>
>
>
>
> President Bush
> Washington, D.C. (Joint Session of Congress)
> September 20, 2001
>
>
>
> The major institutions of American national security were designed in a
> different era to meet different requirements. All of them must be
> transformed.
>
> It is time to reaffirm the essential role of American military strength.
> We must build and maintain our defenses beyond challenge. Our military's
> highest priority is to defend the United States. To do so effectively,
> our military must:
>
> * assure our allies and friends;
>
> * dissuade future military competition;
>
> * deter threats against U.S. interests, allies, and friends; and
>
> * decisively defeat any adversary if deterrence fails.
>
>
> The unparalleled strength of the United States armed forces, and their
> forward presence, have maintained the peace in some of the world's most
> strategically vital regions. However, the threats and enemies we must
> confront have changed, and so must our forces. A military structured to
> deter massive Cold War-era armies must be transformed to focus more on
> how an adversary might fight rather than where and when a war might
> occur. We will channel our energies to overcome a host of operational
> challenges.
>
> The presence of American forces overseas is one of the most profound
> symbols of the U.S. commitments to allies and friends. Through our
> willingness to use force in our own defense and in defense of others,
> the United States demonstrates its resolve to maintain a balance of
> power that favors freedom. To contend with uncertainty and to meet the
> many security challenges we face, the United States will require bases
> and stations within and beyond Western Europe and Northeast Asia, as
> well as temporary access arrangements for the long-distance deployment
> of U.S. forces.
>
> Before the war in Afghanistan, that area was low on the list of major
> planning contingencies. Yet, in a very short time, we had to operate
> across the length and breadth of that remote nation, using every branch
> of the armed forces. We must prepare for more such deployments by
> developing assets such as advanced remote sensing, long-range precision
> strike capabilities, and transformed maneuver and expeditionary forces.
> This broad portfolio of military capabilities must also include the
> ability to defend the homeland, conduct information operations, ensure
> U.S. access to distant theaters, and protect critical U.S.
> infrastructure and assets in outer space.
>
> Innovation within the armed forces will rest on experimentation with new
> approaches to warfare, strengthening joint operations, exploiting U.S.
> intelligence advantages, and taking full advantage of science and
> technology. We must also transform the way the Department of Defense is
> run, especially in financial management and recruitment and retention.
> Finally, while maintaining near-term readiness and the ability to fight
> the war on terrorism, the goal must be to provide the President with a
> wider range of military options to discourage aggression or any form of
> coercion against the United States, our allies, and our friends.
>
> We know from history that deterrence can fail; and we know from
> experience that some enemies cannot be deterred. The United States must
> and will maintain the capability to defeat any attempt by an enemy --
> whether a state or non-state actor -- to impose its will on the United
> States, our allies, or our friends. We will maintain the forces
> sufficient to support our obligations, and to defend freedom. Our forces
> will be strong enough to dissuade potential adversaries from pursuing a
> military build-up in hopes of surpassing, or equaling, the power of the
> United States.
>
> Intelligence -- and how we use it -- is our first line of defense
> against terrorists and the threat posed by hostile states. Designed
> around the priority of gathering enormous information about a massive,
> fixed object -- the Soviet bloc -- the intelligence community is coping
> with the challenge of following a far more complex and elusive set of
> targets.
>
> We must transform our intelligence capabilities and build new ones to
> keep pace with the nature of these threats. Intelligence must be
> appropriately integrated with our defense and law enforcement systems
> and coordinated with our allies and friends. We need to protect the
> capabilities we have so that we do not arm our enemies with the
> knowledge of how best to surprise us. Those who would harm us also seek
> the benefit of surprise to limit our prevention and response options and
> to maximize injury.
>
> We must strengthen intelligence warning and analysis to provide
> integrated threat assessments for national and homeland security. Since
> the threats inspired by foreign governments and groups may be conducted
> inside the United States, we must also ensure the proper fusion of
> information between intelligence and law enforcement.
>
> Initiatives in this area will include:
>
> * strengthening the authority of the Director of Central Intelligence
> to lead the development and actions of the Nation's foreign intelligence
> capabilities;
>
> * establishing a new framework for intelligence warning that provides
> seamless and integrated warning across the spectrum of threats facing
> the nation and our allies;
>
> * continuing to develop new methods of collecting information to
> sustain our intelligence advantage;
>
> * investing in future capabilities while working to protect them
> through a more vigorous effort to prevent the compromise of intelligence
> capabilities; and
>
> * collecting intelligence against the terrorist danger across the
> government with all-source analysis.
>
>
> As the United States Government relies on the armed forces to defend
> America's interests, it must rely on diplomacy to interact with other
> nations. We will ensure that the Department of State receives funding
> sufficient to ensure the success of American diplomacy. The State
> Department takes the lead in managing our bilateral relationships with
> other governments. And in this new era, its people and institutions must
> be able to interact equally adroitly with non-governmental organizations
> and international institutions. Officials trained mainly in
> international politics must also extend their reach to understand
> complex issues of domestic governance around the world, including public
> health, education, law enforcement, the judiciary, and public diplomacy.
>
> Our diplomats serve at the front line of complex negotiations, civil
> wars, and other humanitarian catastrophes. As humanitarian relief
> requirements are better understood, we must also be able to help build
> police forces, court systems, and legal codes, local and provincial
> government institutions, and electoral systems. Effective international
> cooperation is needed to accomplish these goals, backed by American
> readiness to play our part.
>
> Just as our diplomatic institutions must adapt so that we can reach out
> to others, we also need a different and more comprehensive approach to
> public information efforts that can help people around the world learn
> about and understand America. The war on terrorism is not a clash of
> civilizations. It does, however, reveal the clash inside a civilization,
> a battle for the future of the Muslim world. This is a struggle of ideas
> and this is an area where America must excel.
>
> We will take the actions necessary to ensure that our efforts to meet
> our global security commitments and protect Americans are not impaired
> by the potential for investigations, inquiry, or prosecution by the
> International Criminal Court (ICC), whose jurisdiction does not extend
> to Americans and which we do not accept. We will work together with
> other nations to avoid complications in our military operations and
> cooperation, through such mechanisms as multilateral and bilateral
> agreements that will protect U.S. nationals from the ICC. We will
> implement fully the American Servicemembers Protection Act, whose
> provisions are intended to ensure and enhance the protection of U.S.
> personnel and officials.
>
> We will make hard choices in the coming year and beyond to ensure the
> right level and allocation of government spending on national security.
> The United States Government must strengthen its defenses to win this
> war. At home, our most important priority is to protect the homeland for
> the American people.
>
> Today, the distinction between domestic and foreign affairs is
> diminishing. In a globalized world, events beyond America's borders have
> a greater impact inside them. Our society must be open to people, ideas,
> and goods from across the globe. The characteristics we most cherish --
> our freedom, our cities, our systems of movement, and modern life -- are
> vulnerable to terrorism. This vulnerability will persist long after we
> bring to justice those responsible for the September eleventh attacks.
> As time passes, individuals may gain access to means of destruction that
> until now could be wielded only by armies, fleets, and squadrons. This
> is a new condition of life. We will adjust to it and thrive -- in spite
> of it.
>
> In exercising our leadership, we will respect the values, judgment, and
> interests of our friends and partners. Still, we will be prepared to act
> apart when our interests and unique responsibilities require. When we
> disagree on particulars, we will explain forthrightly the grounds for
> our concerns and strive to forge viable alternatives. We will not allow
> such disagreements to obscure our determination to secure together, with
> our allies and our friends, our shared fundamental interests and values.
>
> Ultimately, the foundation of American strength is at home. It is in the
> skills of our people, the dynamism of our economy, and the resilience of
> our institutions. A diverse, modern society has inherent, ambitious,
> entrepreneurial energy. Our strength comes from what we do with that
> energy. That is where our national security begins.
>


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0738.1a5a2f7c0b47ed1c9f7038706e7d5d01.eml000066400000000000000000000133221444326627400312000ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep 21 10:43:18 2002
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From: "Mr. FoRK" 
To: 
Subject: Senate Committee Passes Nanotech Bill
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Weird... I never thought the govmint would get into funding this. You know
'weapons of mass destruction'. etc. etc.

==
http://dc.internet.com/news/article.php/10849_1467121

September 20, 2002
Senate Committee Passes Nanotech Bill
By Roy Mark

The Senate Commerce Committee unanimously passed on Thursday legislation to
promote nanotechnology research and development. Introduced by Sen. Ron
Wyden (D-Ore.), the 21st Century Nanotechnology Research and Development Act
would create the National Nanotechnology Research Program. The bill is
co-sponsored by Sen. Joe Lieberman (D-Conn.) and Sen. George Allen (R-Va.).

The proposed program would be a coordinated interagency effort that would
support long-term nanoscale research and development and promote effective
education and training for the next generation of nanotechnology researchers
and professionals.

"The unanimous support of the Senate Commerce Committee is a very big step
forward for this very small technology," Lieberman, who vowed to pushed to
full Senate passage before the end of the year, said. "Nowhere in the world
are the wheels of innovation spinning more rapidly than in the realm of
nanotechnology. The U.S. certainly possesses the raw resources and talent to
lead the world in developing this technology. Our legislation will provide
the nation with a long-term focus and sustained commitment, and facilitate
new collaborations between government, academia, and industry that will
ensure our place at the head of the next wave of innovation."

The bill would place coordination and management of the nanotechnology
program under the National Science and Technology Council. It would also
create a Presidential National Nanotechnology Advisory Panel and National
Nanotechnology Coordination Office, which would provide administrative and
technical support for the Advisory Panel and the Council.

"My own judgment is the nanotechnology revolution has the potential to
change America on a scale equal to, if not greater than, the computer
revolution. I am determined that the United States will not miss, but will
mine the opportunities of nanotechnology," Wyden said in introducing the
bill. "At present, efforts in the nanotechnology field are strewn across a
half-dozen federal agencies. I want America to marshal its various
nanotechnology efforts into one driving force to remain the world's leader
in this burgeoning field. And I believe federal support is essential to
achieving that goal.

To study the potential long-term effects of nanotechnology, a new Center for
Societal, Ethical, Educational, Legal and Workforce Issues Related to
Nanotechnology would also be established.

According to Lieberman, the bill closely tracks the recommendations of the
National Research Council (NRC), which completed a thorough review of the
National Nanotechnology Initiative in June.

Those recommendations included establishing an independent advisory panel;
emphasizing long-term goals; striking a balance between long-term and
short-term research; supporting the development of research facilities,
equipment and instrumentation; creating special funding to support research
that falls in the breach between agency missions and programs; promoting
interdisciplinary research and research groups; facilitating technology
transition and outreach to industry; conducting studies on the societal
implications of nanotechnology, including those related to ethical,
educational, legal and workforce issues; and the development of metrics for
measuring progress toward program goals.



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0739.88b6bb31404ad7f4802e4002d4e6ad66.eml000066400000000000000000000112101444326627400311060ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep 21 10:43:20 2002
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Related to the MS acquisition of XDegrees?

==
http://www.internetnews.com/infra/article.php/1466271

Sun Nabs Storage Startup
By Clint Boulton
Amid the flurry of news at its own SunNetwork 2002 conference in San
Francisco, Sun Microsystems Thursday said it has agreed to purchase data
storage concern Pirus Networks for an undisclosed amount of stock.

The Palo Alto, Calif. networking firm bought the Acton, Mass.-based startup
with a keen eye for the startup's switching (define) devices and
virtualization technology. Used as part of a storage area network (define),
virtualization is the pooling of storage from many network storage devices
into what appears to the operating system to be a single storage device that
is managed from a central console.

Though major vendors make similar technology, Pirus competes with the likes
of Rhapsody Networks and Confluence Networks. Sun plucked Pirus after
scouting some 65 companies.

Mark Lovington, vice president of marketing for Pirus, told internetnews.com
that Pirus and Sun have been in discussion for a while about a possible
acquisition. Pirus, he said, succeeded in a goal it shares with a lot of
storage startups -- to be acquired by one of the major systems vendors, such
as Sun IBM, HP, Hitachi.

"This is a huge opportunity for Pirus in a storage market dominated by 6,7
or 8 system-level players," Lovington said. "Sun sees this acquisition as a
critical element to their N1 initiative. The synergies were quite obvious."

N1 is Sun's hopeful tour de force in distributed computing (define)
architecture, which involves multiple, remote computers that each have a
role in a computation problem or information processing. N1 is being styled
as the answer for companies looking to manage groups of computers and
networks as a single system -- at a lower cost and with greater flexibility.

While lagging behind other, more entrenched players, Sun is gaining ground
in the storage market with its Sun StorEdge Complete Storage Solutions,
according to a new report by IDC. John McArthur, group vice president of
IDC's Storage program, said Sun Microsystems and IBM posted the largest
increases in total storage revenue over Q1 2002, with 32% and 11% gains,
respectively. As of Q2, Sun held a 9 percent market share, with revenues of
$411 million.

Sun's acquisition of Pirus is expected to close in the second quarter of
Sun's 2003 fiscal year, which ends December 29, 2002.



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0740.fb7c09644e29a443a4effe8ad0ccfa2a.eml000066400000000000000000000050351444326627400315540ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep 21 10:43:21 2002
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Subject: SunMSapple meta4 of the day
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Im feeling a bit farklempt having spent the night at Todais with the
family so talk amongst yourself..here Ill give you a topic

The current state of IT can be thought of in terms of the Cold war with
the US and the UUSR being MS and Sun/IBM/OSS (does it matter which side
is which?), Apple as Cuba and the US legal system as the UN.

Discuss.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0741.4a16993a679f825b18b571c6356fbcb9.eml000066400000000000000000000066351444326627400310730ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep 21 10:43:22 2002
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The pay's not good (9,300 a year), but there is insurance, a 4,700 (I 
think) off a student loan, or for future education, and non-compete status 
for any govt. job after a year's service.  I moved to New Orleans 
yesterday, and I should be flying to DC in about a month to start the 
AmeriCorps training.  I'll be setting up a community technology center which 
will be used to teach computer literacy skills to low income folks (just, 
like, learning MS shit (yeah yeah, wtf am i doing?  I know.))  so that 
they can possibly find better jobs.  I'm sure I'll be doing all sorts 
of other things too, like helping folks with their taxes, writing grants, 
etc.  The website is www.americorps.org.  There are -all- sorts of jobs 
all over the country, so if someone out there can survive on the small 
salary, it's something s/he might want to take a look at.  

Since Xi is in college and getting grants + scholarship + child support 
from dad, my load has gone down terrifically.  The IRS is after me for 
money I didn't make on the stock market, so it's a way to at least get 
into a situation where they will have to understand that yes, they will 
have to wait.  

But bottom line benefit and motivation is the feelgood that ya get when 
you do this type of job.  I'm up for some of that.
Cindy

-- 
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0742.65f3bb623bd6a6e49a9d1e0f9ee66279.eml000066400000000000000000000060671444326627400313120ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep 21 10:43:24 2002
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At 9:34 PM -0700 on 9/20/02, Mr. FoRK wrote:


> "Free trade and free markets have proven their ability to lift whole
> societies out of poverty"
> I'm not a socio-political/history buff - does anybody have some clear
> examples?

You're probably living in one, or you wouldn't be able to post here.

;-).

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0743.11737315524334fda4487c948caab0a0.eml000066400000000000000000000063221444326627400307450ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep 21 10:43:25 2002
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It was the best of times, it was the worst of times,
it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness,
it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity,
it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness,
it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair,
we had everything before us, we had nothing before us,
we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way
---C Dickens

G'Quon Wrote "There is a greater darkness than the one we fight. It is the
darkness of  the soul that has lost its way." The war we fight is not
against powers  and principalities - it is against chaos and despair.
Greater than the  death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of
dreams. Against this  peril we can never surrender. The future is all
around us, waiting in  moments of transition, to be born in moments of
revelation. No one knows  the shape of that future, or where it will take
us. We know only that it  is always born in pain.
--JWS




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0744.8148cbab42e9b5a4f31f22017b3eccc4.eml000066400000000000000000000052251444326627400313240ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep 21 15:19:01 2002
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Hello fork,

  So they have Aaron Schwartz on NPR's Weekend Edition talking
  about Warchalking.   I'll agree, its funny, his voice is squeaky and
  I'm jealous that he got on radio and I didn't...

  But really, WTF is the big deal about warchalking?  I have yet to
  see any of it, anywhere.

  LInk will probably pop up on www.npr.org later today.

  

-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                          mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0745.3e54df3c4f199b6b8aed76eefd11c660.eml000066400000000000000000000064421444326627400314430ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep 21 15:19:03 2002
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Hello Chris,

Oh I don't know, Time-lag synchrocity?

Or mutual shared experience over time?
:)

Its like 930 am..I can't function yet.  Lord knows its 630 where you
are.

I say this should be a FoRK Posit.


CO> Scary.  I was just listening to the radio (stream, from KUOW), and heard
CO> the story just moments ago.

CO> We're on opposite sides of the continent, yet we appear to have just had a
CO> shared experience.  There should be a name for that...

CO> Cheers -

CO>         /cco

CO> On Sat, 21 Sep 2002 bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:
>> 
>>   So they have Aaron Schwartz on NPR's Weekend Edition talking
>>   about Warchalking.   I'll agree, its funny, his voice is squeaky and
>>   I'm jealous that he got on radio and I didn't...




-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                            mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0746.eb20a810f43c9bd9663c0da5e553ccc4.eml000066400000000000000000000106251444326627400313340ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep 21 20:22:00 2002
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To: "Mr. FoRK" 
Cc: 
Subject: Re: sed /s/United States/Roman Empire/g
References: <979BE8FE-CCF6-11D6-817E-000393A46DEA@alumni.caltech.edu>
    
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
X-Home-Page: http://www.teledyn.com
Organization: TCI Business Innovation through Open Source Computing
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>>>>> "f" == fork list  writes:

    f> "Free trade and free markets have proven their ability to lift
    f> whole societies out of poverty" I'm not a
    f> socio-political/history buff - does anybody have some clear
    f> examples?

China?  Ooops, no wait, scratch that.

There is one counter example that I can think of, but it may not be
precisely "free trade/markets" -- when Ben Franklin first visited
England he was asked why the colonies were so prosperous.  Ben
explained that they used "Colonial Script", a kind of barter-dollar,
and increasing the supply of script ensured complete employment.  The
British bankers were furious and immediately lobbied parliament to
clamp down on the practice.  Within a few years, the colonies were
rife with unemployment and poverty just like the rest of the Empire.

According to questionable literature handed out by a fringe political
party here in Canada, the Founding Fathers had no real complaint about
tea taxes, it was the banning of colonial script they were
protesting. If this is true, then it comes right back to the forces
that killed Ned Ludd's followers as to why popular opinion believes
they were protesting a tea tax.  The same pamphlet claimed that Canada
was also a prosperous nation until, by an act of parliament in the
late-50's or early 60's, the right to print money was removed from the
juristiction of parliament and handed over to the Bank of Canada.

I've wondered about all this.  Certainly the timeline of the collapse
of the Canadian economy fits the profile, but there are oodles of
other causes (for example, spending money like we had 300M people when
we only had 20M) Anyone have any further information on this?

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
  "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0747.0ae2c1995e3f8c30bd2f69a5e51196ba.eml000066400000000000000000000066141444326627400312720ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep 21 20:22:02 2002
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Subject: Re: sed /s/United States/Roman Empire/g
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>>>>> "R" == R A Hettinga  writes:

    R> At 9:34 PM -0700 on 9/20/02, Mr. FoRK wrote:
    >> "Free trade and free markets have proven their ability to lift
    >> whole societies out of poverty" I'm not a
    >> socio-political/history buff - does anybody have some clear
    >> examples?

    R> You're probably living in one, or you wouldn't be able to post
    R> here.

Cool --- I wasn't aware that the US had lifted it's population out of
poverty!  When did this happen?  I wonder where the media gets the
idea that the wealth gap is widening and deepening...


-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
  "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0748.b144313155aeba13b5eda936e120daae.eml000066400000000000000000000120651444326627400313100ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep 21 20:22:07 2002
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Subject: Re: sed /s/United States/Roman Empire/g
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At 10:32 AM -0400 on 9/21/02, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:


> Cool --- I wasn't aware that the US had lifted it's population out
> of poverty! When did this happen? I wonder where the media gets the
> idea that the wealth gap is widening and deepening...

All the world loves a smartass...

:-).

Seriously. Look at he life expectancy and human carrying capacity of
this continent before the Europeans got here. Look at it now. Even
for descendants of the original inhabitants. Even for the descendents
of slaves, who were brought here by force.

More stuff, cheaper. That's progress.

Poverty, of course, is not relative. It's absolute. Disparity in
wealth has nothing to do with it.

It's like saying that groups have rights, when, in truth, only
individuals do. Like group rights, "disparity" in wealth is
statistical sophistry.


Besides, even if you can't help the distribution, industrial wealth
is almost always transitory, and so is relative poverty, even when
there are no confiscatory death-taxes. The 20th anniversary Forbes
400 just came out, and only a few tens of people are still there
since 1982, a time which had significantly higher marginal taxes on
wealth, income, and inheritance than we do now. More to the point,
they're nowhere near the top.

I'll take those odds. It is only when neofeudalism reasserts itself,
in the form of government regulation, confiscatory taxes, legislated
monopoly, corporate welfare, "non-profit" neoaristocratic tax dodges,
and legalized labor extortion that we get slowdowns in progress, like
what happened in Fabian-era Britain, or 1970's USA.

In fact, it is in countries where wealth is the most "unfairly"
distributed, that you get the most improvement in the general --
economic -- welfare. More stuff cheaper, fewer people dying, more
people living longer.

I'll take those odds as well. People take greater risks when the
returns are higher, improving the lot of us all as a result.

Cheers,
RAH

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-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0749.63721d934e13093d300263cb31da380b.eml000066400000000000000000000052521444326627400306620ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep 21 20:22:09 2002
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----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hall" 


> Take a list of the richest countries.
>
> Take a list of the countries that have the counties where markets are
> the most free.
>
> They are, essentially, the same list.
Umm... how many of these countries were in poverty & lifted themselves up
after switching?


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0750.afa51a5a148c9744496447cf28d7483c.eml000066400000000000000000000057061444326627400310640ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep 21 20:22:10 2002
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----- Original Message -----
From: "R. A. Hettinga" 
>
>
> > "Free trade and free markets have proven their ability to lift whole
> > societies out of poverty"
> > I'm not a socio-political/history buff - does anybody have some clear
> > examples?
>
> You're probably living in one, or you wouldn't be able to post here.
>
When was the whole US society in poverty & was that before free trade & free
markets?
I'm looking for transitions due to free xyz.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0751.58282452f1adc8ad703ddc4cf12c2e37.eml000066400000000000000000000061731444326627400312560ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Sep 21 20:22:12 2002
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----- Original Message -----
From: "R. A. Hettinga" 

>
> Seriously. Look at he life expectancy and human carrying capacity of
> this continent before the Europeans got here. Look at it now. Even
> for descendants of the original inhabitants. Even for the descendents
> of slaves, who were brought here by force.
I wouldn't say that the societies of humans here before European occupancy
was 'lifted' by free xyz. Perhaps 'replaced' or 'sunk' or some other
description, but not 'lifted'. Also, the lifestyle of the remnants of those
societies is on average only marginally above poverty even today.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0752.17c76022e66852f8a3cff5745f5937d4.eml000066400000000000000000000063351444326627400310160ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Sep 22 00:25:32 2002
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I went out and drew some chalk circles on my
sidewalk just so I wouldn't miss out on the experience.
I've collected half a dozen passwords &
access to email accounts so far.

Greg

bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:
> Hello fork,
> 
>   So they have Aaron Schwartz on NPR's Weekend Edition talking
>   about Warchalking.   I'll agree, its funny, his voice is squeaky and
>   I'm jealous that he got on radio and I didn't...
> 
>   But really, WTF is the big deal about warchalking?  I have yet to
>   see any of it, anywhere.
> 
>   LInk will probably pop up on www.npr.org later today.
> 
>   
> 


-- 
Gregory Alan Bolcer, CTO  | work: +1.949.833.2800
gbolcer at endeavors.com  | http://endeavors.com
Endeavors Technology, Inc.| cell: +1.714.928.5476










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> As I've said before, American
> Indian Reservations are quite 
> possibly the only place on the 
> planet where you can find trailer 
> park shantytowns where every 
> household is bringing in a
> six-figure income.  I wish I 
> could be exploited like that.  

Like what, like the rare exception case you've raised or like the "on
average" case mentioned in the post you were replying to?

Max



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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gregory Alan Bolcer" 


> I went out and drew some chalk circles on my
> sidewalk just so I wouldn't miss out on the experience.
> I've collected half a dozen passwords &
> access to email accounts so far.
> 
> Greg
hahaha! It takes a thief to catch a thief?


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0755.c0a93a818f6d7b78583dfecb6a2a5ea9.eml000066400000000000000000000053011444326627400314350ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Sep 22 14:11:41 2002
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----- Original Message -----
From: "James Rogers" 

> As I've said before, American
> Indian Reservations are quite possibly the only place on the planet where
> you can find trailer park shantytowns where every household is bringing in
a
> six-figure income.  I wish I could be exploited like that.
Got bits?
(and I bet you probably /are/ being exploited, but you just don't know by
whom...)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0756.9c7d7bcc51790af9b83192fe8d7f1f85.eml000066400000000000000000000071431444326627400313250ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Sep 22 14:11:42 2002
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----- Original Message -----
From: "James Rogers" 

> As I've said before, American
> Indian Reservations are quite possibly the only place on the planet where
> you can find trailer park shantytowns where every household is bringing in
a
> six-figure income.  I wish I could be exploited like that.

If you can't trust the guvmint census, who can you trust?

===

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/2001/cb01fff15.html

Income and Poverty

$31,799
Median household income for American Indians and Alaska Natives, based on a
1998-2000 average. This is higher than for African Americans ($28,679), not
statistically different from Hispanics ($31,703) and lower than for
non-Hispanic Whites ($45,514), and Asians and Pacific Islanders ($52,553).


25.9%
The poverty rate for American Indians and Alaska Natives, based on a
1998-2000 average. This rate was not statistically different from the rates
for African Americans and Hispanics, but was higher than those for
non-Hispanic Whites, and Asians and Pacific Islanders.


701,000
Number of American Indians and Alaska Natives below the poverty line, based
on a 1998-2000 average.


===




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0757.c32bb650e588ceb29f2256b012caabae.eml000066400000000000000000000055311444326627400314050ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Sep 22 14:11:44 2002
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To: 
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Cool - I wonder what you'd look like standing in front of a bunch of
corporate executives...

==
http://www.technologyreview.com/articles/wo_hellweg080102.asp

That's why, for example, Orth is trying to catch the interest of the
military with fabrics that change color when conductive fibers stitched into
the cloth heat and cool the material's thermochromatic inks. "The army wants
fully addressable, interactive camouflage," she says, "so that when you're
standing in front of bricks, your clothing looks like bricks. When you're in
grass, you look like grass. Accomplishing that would be like a space program
for e-textiles."



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0758.84f1c5bbacc2184d06eb79e4c3a81552.eml000066400000000000000000000051571444326627400312700ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Sep 22 14:11:45 2002
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Can anyone stop talking politics long enough to let me know that,
yes, indeed, they do remember the Suburban Lawns?

Better yet, tell me where I should be listening for new music now that
P2P is dead and I still can't pick up KFJC very well.

- Joe

-- 
Give me time I will be clear; given time you'll understand.
What possesses me to right what you have suffered.
I'm in this mood because of scorn; I'm in a mood for total war.
To the darkened skies once more and ever onward.




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0759.063f18d8df64aaf029d8d9925828b52c.eml000066400000000000000000000065601444326627400311570ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Sep 22 14:11:48 2002
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From: Owen Byrne 
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To: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
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Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:

>>>>>>"R" == R A Hettinga  writes:
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>
>    R> At 9:34 PM -0700 on 9/20/02, Mr. FoRK wrote:
>    >> "Free trade and free markets have proven their ability to lift
>    >> whole societies out of poverty" I'm not a
>    >> socio-political/history buff - does anybody have some clear
>    >> examples?
>
>    R> You're probably living in one, or you wouldn't be able to post
>    R> here.
>
>Cool --- I wasn't aware that the US had lifted it's population out of
>poverty!  When did this happen?  I wonder where the media gets the
>idea that the wealth gap is widening and deepening...
>
>
>  
>
I wasn't aware that there was anyone who could use the words "free 
trade" about the United States and keep a straight face.

Owen




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0760.15302b8ee38651c2da6e4df6a7358c98.eml000066400000000000000000000071361444326627400311400ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Sep 22 14:11:50 2002
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Anarchist 'Scavenger Hunt' Raises D.C. Police Ire
Sat Sep 21, 3:37 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - An online "anarchist scavenger
hunt" proposed for next week's annual meeting of the
International Monetary Fund ( news - web sites) and
World Bank ( news - web sites) here has raised the ire
of police, who fear demonstrators could damage
property and wreak havoc.

Break a McDonald's window, get 300 points. Puncture a
Washington D.C. police car tire to win 75 points.
Score 400 points for a pie in the face of a corporate
executive or World Bank delegate.

D.C. Assistant Police Chief Terrance Gainer told a
congressional hearing on Friday that law authorities
were in talks to decide whether planned protests were,
"so deleterious to security efforts that we ought to
take proactive action."

Several thousand people are expected to demonstrate
outside the IMF and World Bank headquarters next
weekend.

The Anti-Capitalist Convergence, a D.C.-based
anarchist group, is also planning a day-long traffic
blockade, banner-drops and protests against major
corporations in the downtown core.

Chuck, the 37 year-old webmaster of the anarchist site
www.infoshop.org who declined to give his last name,
told Reuters his scavenger hunt was meant as a joke.

"People were asking for things to do when they come to
D.C. We made the list to get people thinking, so they
don't do the boring, standard stuff," he said. "I
doubt people will actually keep track of what they do
for points."



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0761.e0096025fc83e5704a05d505cf96cca5.eml000066400000000000000000000060441444326627400311170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Sep 22 14:11:53 2002
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Some interesting quotes...

http://www.postfun.com/pfp/worbois.html


Thomas Jefferson:

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not
find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature.
They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent
men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been
burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this
coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites;
to support roguery and error all over the earth."

SIX HISTORIC AMERICANS,
by John E. Remsburg, letter to William Short
Jefferson again:

"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on
man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the
teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the
first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus."


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To: Gregory Alan Bolcer 
Cc: bitbitch@magnesium.net, 
Subject: Re: Oh my...
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LOL you rool  (:

On Sat, 21 Sep 2002, Gregory Alan Bolcer wrote:

> I went out and drew some chalk circles on my
> sidewalk just so I wouldn't miss out on the experience.
> I've collected half a dozen passwords &
> access to email accounts so far.
> 
> Greg
> 
> bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:
> > Hello fork,
> > 
> >   So they have Aaron Schwartz on NPR's Weekend Edition talking
> >   about Warchalking.   I'll agree, its funny, his voice is squeaky and
> >   I'm jealous that he got on radio and I didn't...
> > 
> >   But really, WTF is the big deal about warchalking?  I have yet to
> >   see any of it, anywhere.
> > 
> >   LInk will probably pop up on www.npr.org later today.
> > 
> >   
> > 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0763.5760c74ddc97ef3acfeb25509fc1a85e.eml000066400000000000000000000061161444326627400314410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Sep 22 14:11:55 2002
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To: "Joseph S. Barrera III" 
Cc: FoRK 
Subject: Re: flavor cystals
References: <3D8D5C3B.2090202@barrera.org>
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
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>>>>> "J" == Joseph S Barrera,  writes:

    J> Better yet, tell me where I should be listening for new music
    J> now that P2P is dead and I still can't pick up KFJC very well.

How about your local pub?

(sorry couldn't resist)

I still use Live365; slowly the disconnected stations are returning,
since the fee to stay on the air can be as low as $6/month, and if
your fave broadcaster won't pay, you're given the option to pay for
them.

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
  "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0764.ba8f49f7a4dd4d9a9bb28e5c96e46463.eml000066400000000000000000000146511444326627400314020ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Sep 22 21:57:43 2002
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--------------090600030109070305070809
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Owen Byrne wrote:

> R. A. Hettinga wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> At 10:32 AM -0400 on 9/21/02, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>> Cool --- I wasn't aware that the US had lifted it's population out
>>> of poverty! When did this happen? I wonder where the media gets the
>>> idea that the wealth gap is widening and deepening...
>>>   
>>
>>
>> All the world loves a smartass...
>>
>> :-).
>>
>> Seriously. Look at he life expectancy and human carrying capacity of
>> this continent before the Europeans got here. Look at it now. Even
>> for descendants of the original inhabitants. Even for the descendents
>> of slaves, who were brought here by force.
>>
>> More stuff, cheaper. That's progress.
>>
>> Poverty, of course, is not relative. It's absolute. Disparity in
>> wealth has nothing to do with it.
>>
>> It's like saying that groups have rights, when, in truth, only
>> individuals do. Like group rights, "disparity" in wealth is
>> statistical sophistry.
>>
>>
>> Besides, even if you can't help the distribution, industrial wealth
>> is almost always transitory, and so is relative poverty, even when
>> there are no confiscatory death-taxes. The 20th anniversary Forbes
>> 400 just came out, and only a few tens of people are still there
>> since 1982, a time which had significantly higher marginal taxes on
>> wealth, income, and inheritance than we do now. More to the point,
>> they're nowhere near the top.
>>  
>>
Lovely quote from the Forbes 400 list:
"and not a single Astor, Vanderbilt or Morgan rates a mention on the 
current Forbes Four Hundred. "

But you have to studiously ignore the 4 Rockefellers, 3 Gettys, 3 
Hearsts,  Fords, Kelloggs, Wrigleys,
and so on.

There are more self-made people on the list than I previously alluded to 
- I made a mistake. Most
of them seem to have Ivy League educations, or are Ivy League dropouts, 
suggesting to me that they weren't
exactly poor to start with. Some of them have lovely self-made stories 
like:
#347, Johnston, Summerfield K Jr
track this personTrack This Person 


 | See all Bacon Makers 
 


70 , self made
*Source: Food 
, 
Coca-Cola* (quote 
, 
executives 
, 
news )

Net Worth: *$680 mil* returnee
Hometown: Chattanooga , TN

*Marital Status:* married , 5 children


Grandfather James and partner landed first Coca-Cola bottling franchise 
in 1899. Company passed down 3 generations to Summerfield 1950s. Became 
largest independent Coke bottler. Merged with Coca-Cola Enterprises 1991.

 



(...by a compensation committee)
Owen






--------------090600030109070305070809--


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0765.7dc679a77d756d8404d793f18d307ffe.eml000066400000000000000000000057071444326627400311760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Sep 22 21:57:45 2002
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"Oh my Janitor, boom, boom, boom."

The best place for new music is right where it's
always been. College radio.   UCI, UCSD,USD, Claremont(?)'s
KSPC, UCLA, Cal Fullerton, Cal LA, Cal Pomona.

Greg

Joseph S. Barrera III wrote:
> Can anyone stop talking politics long enough to let me know that,
> yes, indeed, they do remember the Suburban Lawns?
> 
> Better yet, tell me where I should be listening for new music now that
> P2P is dead and I still can't pick up KFJC very well.
> 
> - Joe
> 




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0766.41207e11478fa4b0f4747f635e0542c0.eml000066400000000000000000000157231444326627400307040ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Sep 22 21:57:47 2002
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From: "Geege Schuman" 
To: "Owen Byrne" 
Cc: "Gary Lawrence Murphy" ,
	"Mr. FoRK" , ,
	"Digital Bearer Settlement List" 
Subject: Crony Capitalism (was RE: sed /s/United States/Roman Empire/g)
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reminds me of Cheney during the VP debates, when he declared his wealth was
not the product of government favors.

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/communications/logs/Gulf-War/desert-stor
m/07

(good time to refresh our memories re iraq . . .)

starting a debate on govt. contracts,
gg

-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of Owen
Byrne
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 11:04 AM
To: Owen Byrne
Cc: Gary Lawrence Murphy; Mr. FoRK; fork@example.com; Digital Bearer
Settlement List
Subject: Re: sed /s/United States/Roman Empire/g


Owen Byrne wrote:

> R. A. Hettinga wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> At 10:32 AM -0400 on 9/21/02, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Cool --- I wasn't aware that the US had lifted it's population out
>>> of poverty! When did this happen? I wonder where the media gets the
>>> idea that the wealth gap is widening and deepening...
>>>
>>
>>
>> All the world loves a smartass...
>>
>> :-).
>>
>> Seriously. Look at he life expectancy and human carrying capacity of
>> this continent before the Europeans got here. Look at it now. Even
>> for descendants of the original inhabitants. Even for the descendents
>> of slaves, who were brought here by force.
>>
>> More stuff, cheaper. That's progress.
>>
>> Poverty, of course, is not relative. It's absolute. Disparity in
>> wealth has nothing to do with it.
>>
>> It's like saying that groups have rights, when, in truth, only
>> individuals do. Like group rights, "disparity" in wealth is
>> statistical sophistry.
>>
>>
>> Besides, even if you can't help the distribution, industrial wealth
>> is almost always transitory, and so is relative poverty, even when
>> there are no confiscatory death-taxes. The 20th anniversary Forbes
>> 400 just came out, and only a few tens of people are still there
>> since 1982, a time which had significantly higher marginal taxes on
>> wealth, income, and inheritance than we do now. More to the point,
>> they're nowhere near the top.
>>
>>
Lovely quote from the Forbes 400 list:
"and not a single Astor, Vanderbilt or Morgan rates a mention on the
current Forbes Four Hundred. "

But you have to studiously ignore the 4 Rockefellers, 3 Gettys, 3
Hearsts,  Fords, Kelloggs, Wrigleys,
and so on.

There are more self-made people on the list than I previously alluded to
- I made a mistake. Most
of them seem to have Ivy League educations, or are Ivy League dropouts,
suggesting to me that they weren't
exactly poor to start with. Some of them have lovely self-made stories
like:
#347, Johnston, Summerfield K Jr
track this personTrack This Person


 | See all Bacon Makers



70 , self made
*Source: Food
,
Coca-Cola* (quote
,
executives
,
news )

Net Worth: *$680 mil* returnee
Hometown: Chattanooga , TN

*Marital Status:* married , 5 children


Grandfather James and partner landed first Coca-Cola bottling franchise
in 1899. Company passed down 3 generations to Summerfield 1950s. Became
largest independent Coke bottler. Merged with Coca-Cola Enterprises 1991.

 



(...by a compensation committee)
Owen








golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0767.da57f04c8030dce67142b9480e532b30.eml000066400000000000000000000070261444326627400310360ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Sep 22 21:57:50 2002
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A worthy study procrastination tool: )

A few choice phrases from ol dubya himself:

"And all our history says we believe in liberty and justice for all,
that when we see oppression, we cry."

"If you want to keep the peace, you've got to have the authorization to use force.
-- White House, Sep. 19, 2002"

"The United States will remain strong in our conviction that we must not, and will not,
 allow the world's worst leaders to hold the United States and our friends and allies blackmail,
 or threaten us with the world's worst weapons."  -- Whats truly sad
 about the "United States and our friends and allies /blackmail/, is
 that he said the same thing in the SAME speech in a paragraph or two
 before.


 "If you find a neighbor in need, you're responsible for serving that neighbor in need,
  you're responsible for loving a neighbor just like you'd like to
  love yourself."
  -- Snerk.   This just begs for potty-mouth comedy.  Too bad the kids
  on southpark just aren't that political.

  "I want to send the signal to our enemy that you have aroused a compassionate and decent and mighty nation, and we're going to hunt you down.
-- No, I didn't make this one up. Louisville, Kentucky, Sep. 5, 2002

Hee.. Mkay.
http://www.dubyaspeak.com

-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                          mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0768.42d3db0f0b763a75183afd06f5db8ce5.eml000066400000000000000000000052701444326627400313450ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Sep 22 21:57:52 2002
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On Saturday, September 21, 2002, at 10:59 PM, Joseph S. Barrera III 
wrote:

> Better yet, tell me where I should be listening for new music now that
> P2P is dead and I still can't pick up KFJC very well.

KFJC has a MP3 stream at kfjc.org. I'd also recommend radioparadise.com.

I remember the Suburban Lawns, but I don't know what became of them.

Apropos of nothing: "Spirited Away" is amazing. Go see it now.

-- whump


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From: "John Hall" 
To: "FoRK" 
Subject: Colonial Script ...
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Oh, they were plenty upset about the tea taxes.

But the crack down on colonial script certainly screwed over the
American Colonies.  And, BTW, England as well.

Dear Ben Franklin was right for the wrong reasons.  First of all the
colonies were not prosperous compared to England proper.  Second, the
issuance of colonial script had nothing to do with full employeement.

(In fact, it is almost inconceivable he would make that claim.  It
sounds like a modern Keynsian was creating an urban legend.)

OTOH the lack of sufficient circulating monetary instruments was
economically crippling.  Imagine trying to buy your supplies by offering
IOUs on your own name -- and then trying to market / exchange the paper
as the merchant who took the IOU.

===========================

The most common problem in the world is when a government prints too
much money.  The effects are a complete disaster.  There are a lot of
incentives that push governments into doing this even though it is
incredibly stupid.

So almost all the literature talks about that.

But you can ALSO screw an economy over by taking all the money out of
circulation.  The fundamental cause of the American Great Depression was
exactly this, courtesy of the Federal Reserve Board.

I don't think shifting the power to print money to the bank of Canada
had much effect.  And Canada is still a prosperous country.




> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
Gary
> Lawrence Murphy
> Sent: Saturday, September 21, 2002 7:31 AM
> To: Mr. FoRK
> Cc: fork@example.com
> Subject: Re: sed /s/United States/Roman Empire/g
> 
> >>>>> "f" == fork list  writes:
> 
>     f> "Free trade and free markets have proven their ability to lift
>     f> whole societies out of poverty" I'm not a
>     f> socio-political/history buff - does anybody have some clear
>     f> examples?
> 
> China?  Ooops, no wait, scratch that.
> 
> There is one counter example that I can think of, but it may not be
> precisely "free trade/markets" -- when Ben Franklin first visited
> England he was asked why the colonies were so prosperous.  Ben
> explained that they used "Colonial Script", a kind of barter-dollar,
> and increasing the supply of script ensured complete employment.  The
> British bankers were furious and immediately lobbied parliament to
> clamp down on the practice.  Within a few years, the colonies were
> rife with unemployment and poverty just like the rest of the Empire.
> 
> According to questionable literature handed out by a fringe political
> party here in Canada, the Founding Fathers had no real complaint about
> tea taxes, it was the banning of colonial script they were
> protesting. If this is true, then it comes right back to the forces
> that killed Ned Ludd's followers as to why popular opinion believes
> they were protesting a tea tax.  The same pamphlet claimed that Canada
> was also a prosperous nation until, by an act of parliament in the
> late-50's or early 60's, the right to print money was removed from the
> juristiction of parliament and handed over to the Bank of Canada.
> 
> I've wondered about all this.  Certainly the timeline of the collapse
> of the Canadian economy fits the profile, but there are oodles of
> other causes (for example, spending money like we had 300M people when
> we only had 20M) Anyone have any further information on this?
> 
> --
> Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
>  - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
>   "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


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> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
Mr.
> FoRK

> Also, the lifestyle of the remnants of those
> societies is on average only marginally above poverty even today.

As I understand it, there is a huge difference between native Americans
who speak english at home and those who do not.  I don't have figures
that separate those at hand, though.

1989 American Indians (US Pop as a whole) -- Families below poverty
27.2% (10%), Persons below poverty 31.2 (13.1), Speak a language other
than English 23 (13.8) Married couple families 65.8 (79.5) Median family
income $21,619 ($35,225) Per Capita $8,284 ($14,420).

Note: High Income countries in 1989 were defined as having over $6,000
per capita.  American Indians separated from the rest of the US society
would still be considered a high-income society.







golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0771.56f1377225cfa1461304bce68e892600.eml000066400000000000000000000056261444326627400307100ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 23 12:09:32 2002
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Clearly, it is US/NATO = Sun/IBM/OSS, USSR = MS

"Where we want you to go in our 5 year plan?"

sdw

Tom wrote:

>Im feeling a bit farklempt having spent the night at Todais with the
>family so talk amongst yourself..here Ill give you a topic
>
>The current state of IT can be thought of in terms of the Cold war with
>the US and the UUSR being MS and Sun/IBM/OSS (does it matter which side
>is which?), Apple as Cuba and the US legal system as the UN.
>
>Discuss.
>  
>

-- 
sdw@lig.net http://sdw.st
Stephen D. Williams 43392 Wayside Cir,Ashburn,VA 20147-4622
703-724-0118W 703-995-0407Fax Dec2001





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At 11:15 AM -0400 on 9/22/02, Geege Schuman wrote:


> Most of them seem to have Ivy League educations, or are Ivy League
> dropouts suggesting to me that they weren't exactly poor to start
> with.

Actually, if I remember correctly from discussion of the list's
composition in Forbes about five or six years ago, the *best* way to
get on the Forbes 400 is to have *no* college at all. Can you say
"Bootstraps", boys and girls? I knew you could...

[Given that an undergraduate liberal arts degree from a state school,
like, say, mine, :-), is nothing but stuff they should have taught
you in a government-run "high" school, you'll probably get more of
*those* on the Forbes 400 as well as time goes on. If we ever get
around to having a good old fashioned government-collapsing
transfer-payment depression (an economic version of this summer's
government-forest conflagration, caused by the same kind of
innumeracy that not clear-cutting enough forests did out west this
summer :-)) that should motivate more than a few erst-slackers out
there, including me, :-), to learn to actually feed themselves.]


The *next* category on the Forbes 400 list is someone with a
"terminal" professional degree, like an MBA, PhD, MD, etc., from the
best school possible.

Why? Because, as of about 1950, the *best* way to get into Harvard,
for instance, is to be *smart*, not rich. Don't take my word for it,
ask their admissions office. Look at the admissions stats over the
years for proof.

Meritocracy, American Style, was *invented* at the Ivy League after
World War II. Even Stanford got the hint, :-), and, of course,
Chicago taught them all how, right? :-). Practically *nobody* who
goes to a top-20 American institution of higher learning can actually
afford to go there these days. Unless, of course, their parents, who
couldn't afford to go there themselves, got terminal degrees in the
last 40 years or so. And their kids *still* had to get the grades,
and "biased" (by intelligence :-)), test scores, to get in.


The bizarre irony is that almost all of those people with "terminal"
degrees, until they actually *own* something and *hire* people, or
learn to *make* something for a living all day on a profit and loss
basis, persist in the practically insane belief, like life after
death, that economics is some kind of zero sum game, that dumb people
who don't work hard for it make all the money, and, if someone *is*
smart, works hard, and is rich, then they stole their wealth somehow.

BTW, none of you guys out there holding the short end of this
rhetorical stick can blame *me* for the fact that I'm using it to
beat you severely all over your collective head and shoulders. You
were, apparently, too dumb to grab the right end. *I* went to
Missouri, and *I* don't have a degree in anything actually useful,
much less a "terminal" one, which means *I*'m broker than anyone on
this list -- it's just that *you*, of all people, lots with
educations far surpassing my own, should just plain know better. The
facts speak for themselves, if you just open your eyes and *look*.
There are no epicycles, the universe does not orbit the earth, and
economics is not a zero-sum game. The cost of anything, including
ignorance and destitution, is the forgone alternative, in this case,
intelligence and effort.

[I will, however, admit to being educated *waay* past my level of
competence, and, by the way *you* discuss economics, so have you,
apparently.]



BTW, if we ever actually *had* free markets in this country,
*including* the abolition of redistributive income and death taxes,
all those smart people in the Forbes 400 would have *more* money, and
there would be *more* self-made people on that list. In addition,
most of the people who *inherited* money on the list would have
*much* less of it, not even relatively speaking. Finally, practically
all of that "new" money would have come from economic efficiency and
not "stolen" from someone else, investment bubbles or not.

That efficiency is called "progress", for those of you in The
People's Republics of Berkeley or Cambridge. It means more and better
stuff, cheaper, over time -- a terrible, petit-bourgeois concept
apparently not worthy of teaching by the educational elite, or you'd
know about it by now. In economic terms, it's also called an increase
in general welfare, and, no, Virginia, I'm not talking about
extorting money from someone who works, and giving it to someone who
doesn't in order to keep them from working and they can think of some
politician as Santa Claus come election time...


In short, then, economics is not a zero sum game, property is not
theft, the rich don't get rich off the backs of the poor, and
redistributionist labor "theory" of value happy horseshit is just
that: horseshit, happy or otherwise.

To believe otherwise, is -- quite literally, given the time Marx
wrote Capital and the Manifesto -- romantic nonsense.

Cheers,
RAH

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-- 
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... and say hello to the cool:  Oooo ... /this/ is going to cause
some stir ...

http://www.atmos.uah.edu./essl/msu/background.html received via
http://ontario.indymedia.org:8081/front.php3?article_id=12280

Using satellites to monitor global climate change

Earth System Science Laboratory

The University of Alabama in Huntsville


For Additional Information:



Dr. John Christy, Associate Professor of Atmospheric Science

Earth System Science Laboratory, The University of Alabama in Huntsville

Phone: (205) 922-5763 E-mail: christy@atmos.uah.edu


Dr. Roy Spencer, Space Scientist

Global Hydrology & Climate Center, NASA/Marshall Space Flight Center

Phone: (205) 922-5960 E-mail: roy.spencer@msfc.nasa.gov


SUMMARY

As part of an ongoing NASA/UAH joint project, Dr. John Christy of UAH and Dr. Roy Spencer of NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center use data gathered by microwave sounding units (MSUs) on National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration TIROS-N satellites to get accurate, direct measurements of atmospheric temperatures for almost all regions of the Earth, including remote deserts, rain forests and oceans for which reliable temperature data are not otherwise available.

The accuracy and reliability of temperature data gathered by the satellites since January 1979 has been confirmed by comparing the satellite data to independent temperature data. A recent study (1) found a 97 percent agreement between the MSU data and temperatures measured by thermometers suspended beneath weather balloons released by meteorologists for weather observations.

Once the monthly temperature data is collected from the satellites and processed, it is placed in a "public" computer file for immediate access by atmospheric scientists in the U.S. and abroad. It has become the basis for a number of major studies in global climate change, and is cited in reports from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.



GATHERING THE DATA

While traditional thermometers measure the temperature at a specific point in the air, a microwave sounding unit on a satellite takes readings that are average temperatures in a huge volume of the atmosphere. Each of the more than 30,000 readings per day per satellite is an average temperature for more than 75,000 cubic kilometers of air.

The MSU makes a direct measurement of the temperature by looking at microwaves emitted by oxygen molecules in the atmosphere. The intensity of the microwave emissions - their "brightness" - varies according to temperature.

Christy and Spencer developed a method to take the data from several satellites and produce a unified temperature dataset.



VERIFYING THE ACCURACY OF MSU MEASUREMENTS

A recent comparison (1) of temperature readings from two major climate monitoring systems - microwave sounding units on satellites and thermometers suspended below helium balloons - found a "remarkable" level of agreement between the two.

To verify the accuracy of temperature data collected by microwave sounding units, Christy compared temperature readings recorded by "radiosonde" thermometers to temperatures reported by the satellites as they orbited over the balloon launch sites.

He found a 97 percent correlation over the 16-year period of the study. The overall composite temperature trends at those sites agreed to within 0.03 degrees Celsius (about 0.054� Fahrenheit) per decade. The same results were found when considering only stations in the polar or arctic regions.

"The idea was to determine the reliability of the satellite data by comparing it to an established independent measurement," Christy said. "If satellite data are reliable when the satellites are over the radiosonde sites, that means you should be able to trust them everywhere else."

The 99 radiosondes reported an aggregate warming trend of 0.155 degrees Celsius (about 0.28� Fahrenheit) per decade since 1979. Over those 99 spots on the globe, the satellites also recorded a warming trend: 0.128 degrees Celsius (about 0.23� Fahrenheit) per decade.

Globally, however, the satellite data show a cooling trend of 0.03 degrees Celsius per decade since the first NOAA TIROS-N satellites went into service.

"These 99 radiosonde launch sites are just not distributed evenly around the planet," Christy said. "They are not representative of the total globe."

Radiosonde balloons are released from stations around the world, usually at noon and midnight Greenwich standard time. As each balloon climbs from the surface to the stratosphere, the temperature is measured and relayed to the ground by radio.

While there are more than 1,000 radiosonde launch sites globally, the data from many sites either are not readily available or are not consistently collected. Christy used data from 99 sites at which there has been long-term systematic and reliable data collection. These 99 radiosonde launch sites are in a box bounded by Iceland, Trinidad, Truk Island and Alaska.

In an earlier study, an upper air temperature record compiled by NOAA from 63 daily weather balloon sites around the world indicated a 17-year climate trend of -0.05� C per decade, which was in exact agreement with the satellite data at that time, Christy said.



GLOBAL COVERAGE

One advantage of the MSU dataset is its global coverage. Microwave sounding units aboard NOAA satellites directly measure the temperature of the atmosphere over more than 95 percent of the globe. Each satellite measures the temperature above most points on Earth every 12 hours.

The 'global temperature' that has been frequently reported from surface measurements is neither global in extent nor systematic in measurement method. It neglects vast oceanic and continental regions, including Antarctica, the Brazilian rain forests, the Sahara Desert and Greenland.

The most commonly cited historical temperature dataset is from ground-based thermometers. More than 5,000 thermometers worldwide provide almost instantaneous local temperature data through links to weather services and scientists.

Most of these thermometers, which are usually in small shelters about five feet above the ground, are in areas easily accessible to people. In the U.S. and other industrial countries, these thermometers are most often found at airports.

The ground-based network is extensive in North America, Europe, Russia, China and Japan. It is less comprehensive in Africa, South America, Australia and across much of Southern Asia.

Temperatures on the surface and vertically through the atmosphere are gathered daily by thermometers carried aloft by helium balloons. "Radiosonde" balloons are released from stations around the world, usually at noon and midnight Greenwich standard time.

While balloon release sites are scattered throughout the world, they are concentrated in industrial nations. There are more than 1,000 radiosonde launch sites globally. If they were evenly distributed around the world, that would equal approximately one for every 195,000 square miles of the Earth's surface.

Water temperatures, which are used to derive estimates of atmospheric temperatures, come from thermometers on piers and buoys, and aboard "ships of opportunity." The ships record the temperature of water drawn in to cool their engines. The water temperature data from these instruments is also not global in its coverage, tending instead to be concentrated in heavily-travelled shipping lanes, and in harbors.

In the past 12 years, a new system of approximately 100 deep ocean buoys has been established, gathering both atmospheric and water temperature data.



INSTRUMENT ACCURACY; MSU

With nine satellites measuring the temperature over periods of from one to six years, a method was devised to merge all the data into a single, consistent time series.

Each satellite has its own bias that, if not calculated and removed, would introduce spurious trends. The biases are calculated by directly comparing each satellite with others in operation at that time. Periods of overlapping operation ranged from three months to three years, and were sufficient to determine these biases.

Because the MSU instruments are so stable and have so many thousands of observations, the biases between the satellites are known to within 0.01 deg. The final product removes these biases so that all data are referenced to a common base. (2)

To check the final product, comparisons were made over a 16-year period with balloon measurements as stated above, and the phenomenal agreement provided the independent validation necessary to conclude that the merging technique developed for this dataset was accurate.



INSTRUMENT ACCURACY; GROUND-BASED THERMOMETERS

Of great concern to scientists is the lack of consistency in the way readings are taken and in the thermometer surroundings. Since most thermometers for which long-term records exist are in towns and cities, the effects of population growth and the construction of nearby roads, parking lots, runways and buildings may cause the temperature to rise a little due of urbanization. This temperature change may be an artifact of a local "asphalt effect" rather than a long-term widespread climate change.



INSTRUMENT ACCURACY; SHIPS OF OPPORTUNITY

While the temperature data collected by ships at sea is reported as a sea surface temperature, this data reflects water temperatures from about three to 60 feet below the surface - the level from which water is drawn into the ships.

The thousands of individual thermometers used to collect this data are not calibrated against a scientific standard, nor is there a method for verifying the accuracy of either the thermometers or the reports matching temperature readings to specific times and places.

Only in places where there are many overlapping observations can there be any confidence in their accuracy.



THE SCIENTISTS

In 1996, Spencer and Christy received the American Meteorological Society's Special Award. They were honored "for developing a global, precise record of the Earth's temperature from operational polar-orbiting satellites, fundamentally advancing our ability to monitor climate."

AMS Special Awards are given to individuals or organizations not appropriately recognized by more specifically-defined awards, and who have made important contributions to the science or practice of meteorology or to the society.

In 1991, Spencer and Christy received NASA's Exceptional Scientific Achievement Medal.



DR. JOHN CHRISTY

Christy began his scientific career as a senior research associate at UAH in 1987, after earning his B.A. (1973) in mathematics from California State University-Fresno, his M.Div. (1978) from Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary, and his M.S. (1984) and Ph.D. (1987) degrees in atmospheric sciences from the University of Illinois.

He was an instructor of mathematics at Parkland College in Champaign, IL, 1983-87, an instructor of mathematics at the University of South Dakota, 1981-82, and an instructor of mathematical sciences at Yankton (S.D.) College, 1980-81.

He also served as pastor of the Grace Baptist Church in Vermillion, S.D., 1978-82, and as science master at Baptist High School, Nyeri, Kenya, 1973-75. He has published more than 20 refereed scientific papers.

Christy serves on the NOAA National Scientific Review Panel for the National Climatic Data Center, and on NOAA's Pathfinder Review Panel. He was an "invited key contributor" to the 1995 Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's scientific assessment of climate change, and served as a contributor to the 1992 and 1994 IPCC reports.



DR. ROY SPENCER

Spencer began his career as a research associate at the Space Science and Engineering Center in Madison, WI, in 1981, after earning his B.S. (1978) in meteorology at the University of Michigan and his M.S. (1979) and Ph.D. (1981) degrees in meteorology from the University of Wisconsin-Madison. He was a Universities Space Research Association visiting scientist at MSFC, 1984-87, before joining the MSFC staff in 1987.

He is the U.S. team leader for the Multichannel Microwave Imaging Radiometer Team and has served on numerous committees relating to remote sensing. He directs a program involving satellite and aircraft passive microwave data to build global climate data sets and to address climate research issues. Spencer is lead author on sixteen scientific papers.



BIBLIOGRAPHY

(1) J.R. Christy, 1995, "Climatic Change," Vol. 31, pp. 455-474.

(2) J.R. Christy, R.W. Spencer and R.T. McNider, 1995, "Journal of Climate,"

Vol. 8, pp. 888-896.

R.W. Spencer, J.R. Christy and N.C. Grody, 1990, "Journal of Climate," Vol. 3,

pp. 111-1128.

R.W. Spencer and J.R. Christy, 1992, "Journal of Climate," Vol. 5, pp. 858-

SEE ALSO
http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/essd5feb97_1.htm
http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/notebook/essd13aug98_1.htm
http://www.ghcc.msfc.nasa.gov/MSU/hl_measuretemp.htm
http://www.atmos.uah.edu/atmos/christy.html


-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
  "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


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Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:
>and say hello to the cool:  Oooo ... /this/ is going to cause some stir ...

Of course not.  Some people just don't want to be confused by the facts.


>SUMMARY
>
>As part of an ongoing NASA/UAH joint project, Dr. John Christy of UAH
>and Dr. Roy Spencer of NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center use data
>gathered by microwave sounding units (MSUs) on National Oceanic and
>Atmospheric Administration TIROS-N satellites to get accurate, direct
>measurements of atmospheric temperatures for almost all regions of the
>Earth [...]

But some plonker will come up with yet another computer model
predicting global warming and storms and floods in 50 years even
though it can't predict next week's weather.  And predict widespread
cooling in some parts of the globe (which is now part of global
"warming").  And will get plenty of publicity for even more conclusive
scaremong^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H proof.


>[...]
>Globally, however, the satellite data show a cooling trend of 0.03
>degrees Celsius per decade since the first NOAA TIROS-N satellites
>went into service.

Umpteen studies have already shown that temperature variations, when
even detectable in the noise, go either way depending on which data
you look at.


>Of great concern to scientists is the lack of consistency in the way
>readings are taken [...] the construction of
>nearby roads, parking lots, runways and buildings may cause the
>temperature to rise a little due of urbanization. This temperature
>change may be an artifact of a local "asphalt effect" rather than a
>long-term widespread climate change.

One study from Vienna showed long-term warming from thermometers at
the airport, and none from other sites.  Another study with data from
Antarctica which was touted as supporting global warming while being
free from this urbanization effect later turned out to be dominated by
the time of day at which the airplane that made the measurements flew
(I may have mentioned this one b4...)


"There are no facts, only interpretations."
- Friedrich Nietzsche.
"Bullshit!"
- Rob.

     .-.                                                               .-.
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 /         \     /       \   /     `-'   `-'     \   /       \     /         \
            \   /         `-'                     `-'         \   /
             `-'                                               `-'


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In a message dated 9/22/2002 11:38:01 PM, rah@shipwright.com writes:

>the *best* way to
>get on the Forbes 400 is

historically: real estate

Tom


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http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/23/opinion/23HERB.html?todaysheadlines=&pagewanted=print&position=top

 The New York Times
September 23, 2002
High-Altitude Rambos
By BOB HERBERT

Dr. Bob Rajcoomar, a U.S. citizen and former military physician from Lake
Worth, Fla., found himself handcuffed and taken into custody last month in
one of the many episodes of hysteria to erupt on board airliners in the
U.S. since the Sept. 11 attacks.

Dr. Rajcoomar was seated in first class on a Delta Airlines flight from
Atlanta to Philadelphia on Aug. 31 when a passenger in the coach section
began behaving erratically. The passenger, Steven Feuer, had nothing to do
with Dr. Rajcoomar.

Two U.S. air marshals got up from their seats in first class and moved back
to coach to confront Mr. Feuer, who was described by witnesses as a slight
man who seemed disoriented. What ensued was terrifying. When Mr. Feuer
refused to remain in his seat, the marshals reacted as if they were trying
out for the lead roles in Hollywood's latest action extravaganza.

They handcuffed Mr. Feuer, hustled him into first class and restrained him
in a seat next to Dr. Rajcoomar. The 180 or so passengers were now quite
jittery. Dr. Rajcoomar asked to have his seat changed and a flight
attendant obliged, finding him another seat in first class. The incident,
already scary, could - and should - have ended there. But the marshals were
not ready to let things quiet down.

One of the marshals pulled a gun and brandished it at the passengers. The
marshals loudly demanded that all passengers remain in their seats, and
remain still. They barked a series of orders. No one should stand for any
reason. Arms and legs should not extend into the aisles. No one should try
to visit the restroom. The message could not have been clearer: anyone who
disobeyed the marshals was in danger of being shot.

The passengers were petrified, with most believing that there were
terrorists on the plane.

"I was afraid there was going to be a gun battle in that pressurized
cabin," said Senior Judge James A. Lineberger of the Philadelphia Court of
Common Pleas, a veteran of 20 years in the military, who was sitting in an
aisle seat in coach. "I was afraid that I was going to die from the gunfire
in a shootout."

Dr. Rajcoomar's wife, Dorothy, who was seated quite a distance from her
husband, said, "It was really like Rambo in the air." She worried that
there might be people on the plane who did not speak English, and therefore
did not understand the marshals' orders. If someone got up to go to the
bathroom, he or she might be shot.

There were no terrorists on board. There was no threat of any kind. When
the plane landed about half an hour later, Mr. Feuer was taken into
custody. And then, shockingly, so was Dr. Rajcoomar. The air marshals
grabbed the doctor from behind, handcuffed him and, for no good reason that
anyone has been able to give, hauled him to an airport police station where
he was thrown into a filthy cell.

This was airline security gone berserk. No one ever suggested that Dr.
Rajcoomar, a straight-arrow retired Army major, had done anything wrong.

Dr. Rajcoomar, who is of Indian descent, said he believes he was taken into
custody solely because of his brown skin. He was held for three frightening
hours and then released without being charged. Mr. Feuer was also released.

Officials tried to conceal the names of the marshals, but they were
eventually identified by a Philadelphia Inquirer reporter as Shawn B.
McCullers and Samuel Mumma of the Transportation Security Administration,
which is part of the U.S. Transportation Department.

The Transportation Security Administration has declined to discuss the
incident in detail. A spokesman offered the absurd explanation that Dr.
Rajcoomar was detained because he had watched the unfolding incident "too
closely."

If that becomes a criterion for arrest in the U.S., a lot of us reporters
are headed for jail.

Dr. Rajcoomar told me yesterday that he remains shaken by the episode. "I
had never been treated like that in my life," he said. "I was afraid that I
was about to be beaten up or killed."

Lawyers for the American Civil Liberties Union have taken up his case and
he has filed notice that he may sue the federal government for unlawful
detention.

"We have to take a look at what we're doing in the name of security," said
Dr. Rajcoomar. "So many men and women have fought and died for freedom in
this great country, and now we are in danger of ruining that in the name of
security."

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


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http://online.wsj.com/article_print/0,,SB10327475102363433,00.html


The Wall Street Journal

September 23, 2002
COMMENTARY

Rebuild at Ground Zero

By LARRY SILVERSTEIN

Earlier this month, we New Yorkers observed the solemn anniversary of the
horrific events that befell our city on Sept. 11, 2001. All of those who
perished must never be forgotten. The footprints of the fallen Twin Towers
and a portion of the 16-acre site must be dedicated to a memorial and civic
amenities that recall the sacrifices that were made there and the anguish
that those senseless acts of terror created for the victims' families and,
indeed, for all of us.

But for the good of the city and the region, the 10-million-plus square
feet of commercial and retail space that was destroyed with the Twin Towers
must be replaced on the site.

About 50,000 people worked in the World Trade Center. Those jobs are lost,
along with those of another 50,000 people who worked in the vicinity.
Together, those jobs in lower Manhattan, for which the Trade Center was the
economic stimulus, produced annual gross wages of about $47 billion, or 15%
of the annual gross wages earned in the entire state. Some of the firms
have relocated elsewhere in the city and region, but many have not. New
York City is facing a budget deficit. Without additional jobs, the deficit
may become permanent. This is one reason for the importance of rebuilding.

If we do not replace the lost space, lower Manhattan never will regain the
vibrancy it had as the world's financial center. Love them or hate them,
and there were lots of New Yorkers on both sides of the issue, the Towers
made a powerful statement to the world that said, "This is New York, a
symbol of our free economy and of our way of life." That is why they were
destroyed. This is a second reason why the towers must be replaced, and
with buildings that make a potent architectural statement.

In recent weeks, redevelopment proposals have been circulated from many
sources. Most of these focus not on the Trade Center site, however, but on
all of lower Manhattan. Further, many believe that the 10 million square
feet either could be located elsewhere, scattered in several sites, or
simply never rebuilt.

These proposals miss the point. What was destroyed, and what must be
recovered, was the Trade Center, not all of lower Manhattan. Except over
the towers' footprints, where there must be no commercial development, the
office and retail space lost has to be rebuilt on or close to where it was.

Access to mass transit makes the site ideal for office space of this size.
That was a major reason why the Twin Towers were leased to 97% occupancy
before 9/11. None of the other sites proposed for office development has
remotely equal transportation access. With the reconstruction of the subway
and PATH stations, plus an additional $4.5 billion in transit improvements
planned, such as the new Fulton Transit Center and the direct
"Train-to-the-Plane" Long Island Rail Road connection, the site becomes
even more the logical locus of office development.

And New York will need the space. Before 9/11, the Group of 35, a task
force of civic leaders led by Sen. Charles Schumer and former Treasury
Secretary Robert Rubin, concluded that the city would need an additional 60
million square feet of new office space by 2020 to accommodate the
anticipated addition of 300,000 new jobs. The loss of the Twin Towers only
heightens the need.

As for those who say that 10 million square feet of office space downtown
cannot be absorbed by the real estate market, I would simply point out that
history shows them wrong. New York now has about 400 million square feet of
office space. All new construction underway already is substantially leased
up. New York had 48 million square feet of vacant office space at the
beginning of the recession in 1990. By 1998, this space had been absorbed,
at an annual rate of about 6 million square feet.

We are seeking to rebuild 10 million square feet on the Trade Center site
over a period of about 10 years, with the first buildings not coming on
line until 2008 and the project reaching completion in 2012. This is an
annual absorption rate of about a million feet, much lower than the 1990s'
rate.

Those who argue that New York cannot reabsorb office space that it
previously had are saying that the city has had its day and is entering an
extended period of stagnation and decline. I will not accept this view, nor
will most New Yorkers.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg said in a recent interview with the New York Times
that the city "has to do two things: memorialize, but also build for the
future." I believe that the Twin Towers site can gracefully accommodate --
and that downtown requires -- office and retail space of architectural
significance, a dignified memorial that both witnesses and recalls what
happened, and cultural amenities that would benefit workers as well as
residents of the area.

The challenge to accomplish this is enormous. But our city is up to the task.

Mr. Silverstein is president of Silverstein Properties, a real estate firm
whose affiliates hold 99-year leases on the World Trade Center site.

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


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To: fork@example.com
Subject: Anarchist 'Scavenger Hunt' Raises D.C. Police Ire (fwd)
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[Destined to be a new reality TV Show?]


Anarchist 'Scavenger Hunt' Raises D.C. Police Ire
Sat Sep 21, 3:37 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - An online "anarchist scavenger
hunt" proposed for next week's annual meeting of the
International Monetary Fund ( news - web sites) and
World Bank ( news - web sites) here has raised the ire
of police, who fear demonstrators could damage
property and wreak havoc.

Break a McDonald's window, get 300 points. Puncture a
Washington D.C. police car tire to win 75 points.
Score 400 points for a pie in the face of a corporate
executive or World Bank delegate.

D.C. Assistant Police Chief Terrance Gainer told a
congressional hearing on Friday that law authorities
were in talks to decide whether planned protests were,
"so deleterious to security efforts that we ought to
take proactive action."

Several thousand people are expected to demonstrate
outside the IMF and World Bank headquarters next
weekend.

The Anti-Capitalist Convergence, a D.C.-based
anarchist group, is also planning a day-long traffic
blockade, banner-drops and protests against major
corporations in the downtown core.

Chuck, the 37 year-old webmaster of the anarchist site
www.infoshop.org who declined to give his last name,
told Reuters his scavenger hunt was meant as a joke.

"People were asking for things to do when they come to
D.C. We made the list to get people thinking, so they
don't do the boring, standard stuff," he said. "I
doubt people will actually keep track of what they do
for points."



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R. A. Hettinga wrote:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>At 11:15 AM -0400 on 9/22/02, Geege Schuman wrote:
>
>
>  
>
>>Most of them seem to have Ivy League educations, or are Ivy League
>>dropouts suggesting to me that they weren't exactly poor to start
>>with.
>>    
>>
>
>Actually, if I remember correctly from discussion of the list's
>composition in Forbes about five or six years ago, the *best* way to
>get on the Forbes 400 is to have *no* college at all. Can you say
>"Bootstraps", boys and girls? I knew you could...
>  
>
Sure - discussion in Forbes - rigorous research, that. Especially when 
the data in their own list
contradicts them. I continue to look at the list and all the "inherited, 
growed" entries. I guess if
I read it enough times my vision will clear.

>[Given that an undergraduate liberal arts degree from a state school,
>like, say, mine, :-), is nothing but stuff they should have taught
>you in a government-run "high" school, you'll probably get more of
>*those* on the Forbes 400 as well as time goes on. If we ever get
>around to having a good old fashioned government-collapsing
>transfer-payment depression (an economic version of this summer's
>government-forest conflagration, caused by the same kind of
>innumeracy that not clear-cutting enough forests did out west this
>summer :-)) that should motivate more than a few erst-slackers out
>there, including me, :-), to learn to actually feed themselves.]
>
>
>The *next* category on the Forbes 400 list is someone with a
>"terminal" professional degree, like an MBA, PhD, MD, etc., from the
>best school possible.
>
>Why? Because, as of about 1950, the *best* way to get into Harvard,
>for instance, is to be *smart*, not rich. Don't take my word for it,
>ask their admissions office. Look at the admissions stats over the
>years for proof.
>  
>
I, at on point, looked into Stanford Business School. After learning 
that tuition was > 20K,
no financial aid was available, and part-time work was disallowed, this 
smart person decided
that I was not willing to spend the $150 application fee 
(non-refundable). During attendance at
my local business school, I was told repeatedly I should have gone for 
it - to quote a prof, (Northwestern MBA), it
has nothing to do with the education you receive - in general European 
(and Canadian) business
schools are better and more innovative - its the connections. He used 
the words "American nobility."

>Meritocracy, American Style, was *invented* at the Ivy League after
>World War II. Even Stanford got the hint, :-), and, of course,
>Chicago taught them all how, right? :-). Practically *nobody* who
>goes to a top-20 American institution of higher learning can actually
>afford to go there these days. Unless, of course, their parents, who
>couldn't afford to go there themselves, got terminal degrees in the
>last 40 years or so. And their kids *still* had to get the grades,
>and "biased" (by intelligence :-)), test scores, to get in.
>  
>
"invented" being the right word. Dubya went to Yale and HBS. I guess 
"practically" gets you
around that problem.

>
>The bizarre irony is that almost all of those people with "terminal"
>degrees, until they actually *own* something and *hire* people, or
>learn to *make* something for a living all day on a profit and loss
>basis, persist in the practically insane belief, like life after
>death, that economics is some kind of zero sum game, that dumb people
>who don't work hard for it make all the money, and, if someone *is*
>smart, works hard, and is rich, then they stole their wealth somehow.
>
>BTW, none of you guys out there holding the short end of this
>rhetorical stick can blame *me* for the fact that I'm using it to
>beat you severely all over your collective head and shoulders. You
>were, apparently, too dumb to grab the right end. *I* went to
>Missouri, and *I* don't have a degree in anything actually useful,
>much less a "terminal" one, which means *I*'m broker than anyone on
>this list -- it's just that *you*, of all people, lots with
>educations far surpassing my own, should just plain know better. The
>facts speak for themselves, if you just open your eyes and *look*.
>There are no epicycles, the universe does not orbit the earth, and
>economics is not a zero-sum game. The cost of anything, including
>ignorance and destitution, is the forgone alternative, in this case,
>intelligence and effort.
>
>[I will, however, admit to being educated *waay* past my level of
>competence, and, by the way *you* discuss economics, so have you,
>apparently.]
>
>  
>
Its interesting but in this part of the World (Nova Scotia) a recent 
study found that college graduates
earn less than graduates of 2 year community colleges (trade schools). 
They did decline to mention
that the demand for some trades  is so great that some of
them are demanding university degrees to get in. Just for the record - 
the average salary for
a university graduate (including advanced degree holders) here is C$ 
21,000  -- < $14,000 US. No wonder
half of San Francisco has set up here - we have a whole whack of call 
centers that
have arrived here in the last couple of years - I think they hire some 
entry level IT people for around $10 ($6 US) an
hour, which of course, fits perfectly for me - my entry level job, in 
1986, paid $11.00 an hour. The fundamental difference
is that most of the jobs that require a trade are *unionized*.In other 
words, in this part of the world, for the vast majority of people, 
 union dues are a better investment than tuition. The counter-argument 
to this is that many college graduates
 leave for better work elsewhere, but the counter-counter argument is 
that we are the thin edge
(one of several really - prison labor in the US would be another) of 
third-world wages and work practices coming
 to North America.

I worked at a company that had a 14-year wage freeze. The fact that they 
could maintain that (and prosper) just says
 volumes about the economy in this part of the world. I met many people 
there, like me, who felt that was fine, I can vote
with my feet. They didn't quite realize that just about every large 
employer in the area has similar, or worse, policies. Anyway
eventually they started a union drive. During the vote, retired 
employees were brought in by the employer (rumours were
that they were paid the going rate for a vote around here - a bottle of 
rum) and somehow allowed to vote . The union filed
 a grievance - which was denied - by a Minister of Labour, who, hey, 
guess what - used to be a VP at the company.
That's free labor markets at work. The business continues to prosper - 
as I was told when I was there -  it is a cash cow as long
as the JOA (Joint Operating Agreement) with the competing paper is in 
place.

And if you think that any of those wonderful American companies, out of 
some free-enterprise belief in competing for the best talent,
are going to do anything about that, sorry, most of them received 
generous subsidies, in return, I'm sure, for an understanding about
the labor markets here.

>
>BTW, if we ever actually *had* free markets in this country,
>*including* the abolition of redistributive income and death taxes,
>all those smart people in the Forbes 400 would have *more* money, and
>there would be *more* self-made people on that list. In addition,
>most of the people who *inherited* money on the list would have
>*much* less of it, not even relatively speaking. Finally, practically
>all of that "new" money would have come from economic efficiency and
>not "stolen" from someone else, investment bubbles or not.
>
>That efficiency is called "progress", for those of you in The
>People's Republics of Berkeley or Cambridge. It means more and better
>stuff, cheaper, over time -- a terrible, petit-bourgeois concept
>apparently not worthy of teaching by the educational elite, or you'd
>know about it by now. In economic terms, it's also called an increase
>in general welfare, and, no, Virginia, I'm not talking about
>extorting money from someone who works, and giving it to someone who
>doesn't in order to keep them from working and they can think of some
>politician as Santa Claus come election time...
>  
>
Much as I like to accept what you say - I do believe in free markets , I 
have difficulty finding any - except of course for
labor markets, which governments go to great lengths to protect (well 
unless the supply is tight)
It was a great run with the technology industry - producing most of the 
self-made billionaires on
the list, but now we've got a government-sponsored monopoly, and the 
concept of "more stuff, cheaper"
which it has always promised - seems to be disappearing. A particularly 
galling example is
high-speed internet access. An article I read a couple of years ago that 
it is an area where the pricing
approaches of the IT industry (cheaper, better or you die) and the 
telecom industry (maintain your
monopoly through regulation, and get guaranteed price increases through 
the same regulators) meet.
Sadly to say, the telecom industry seems to have won. The whole 
entertainment industry/RIAA/Palladium thing
seems to be another instance where actually giving value to the customer 
seems less important than using
regulation to reduce competition and substitute products in order to 
produce profits for the favored few.

>
>In short, then, economics is not a zero sum game, property is not
>theft, the rich don't get rich off the backs of the poor, and
>redistributionist labor "theory" of value happy horseshit is just
>that: horseshit, happy or otherwise.
>
>To believe otherwise, is -- quite literally, given the time Marx
>wrote Capital and the Manifesto -- romantic nonsense.
>  
>
I usually agree - but when there's a Republican in office -  I feel like 
they're the biggest believers in
the Manifesto, in reverse. Create a reserve pool of labor, reduce the 
rights of that "proletariat" you've
just created with bogus "law and order" policies , concentrate capital 
in the hands of a few (ideally people
who can get you reelected) and the economy will take care of itself. Oh, 
and lie - use
the word "compassionate" a lot. I guess I tend to believe that a certain 
amount of poverty reduction actually
helps a modern capitalist state - the basic economic tenet of the 
Republic party seems to be the more homeless under
 each overpass, the more efficient the rest of us will be.

And the facts are, for most people in the Western world  are declining 
standards of living, declining benefits, disappearing social safety net,
greater working hours,  essentially since the entrance of women into the 
work force (not blaming women in any way, they have a right
 to work but its now 2 wage-earners in each family and still declining 
standards of living) is the reality.

Again to quote that wonderfully liberal document I keep coming back to - 
the CIA world factbook - on the US economy:

"Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to 
the top 20% of households"

Owen










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From: Elias Sinderson 
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Subject: Re: sed /s/United States/Roman Empire/g
References: <979BE8FE-CCF6-11D6-817E-000393A46DEA@alumni.caltech.edu>
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Hmm, if the shoe fits... I think these five attributes could more or 
less describe various actions of the US over the past decade or so...

> In the 1990s we witnessed the emergence of a small number of rogue 
> states that, while different in important ways, share a number of 
> attributes. These states:
>
> *    brutalize their own people and squander their national resources 
> for the personal gain of the rulers;

The first part of this doesn't really fit, except in isolated cases - 
certainly not en mass. The second part though... Hmm...

> *    display no regard for international law, threaten their 
> neighbors, and callously violate international treaties to which they 
> are party;

Well, think about it.

> *    are determined to acquire weapons of mass destruction, along with 
> other advanced military technology, to be used as threats or 
> offensively to achieve the aggressive designs of these regimes; 

We already have weapons of mass destruction, but are actively developing 
bigger and better ones.

> *    sponsor terrorism around the globe; and

Heheh... Anyone know about the 'School of the Americas'? What about the 
monies, supplies, and training that supported the contra rebels? Oh, I 
forgot, their government was "bad" and needed to be overthrown (with out 
help).

> *    reject basic human values and hate the United States and 
> everything for which it stands.

Basic human values like the first ammendment? The fourth ammendment?

Sorry, Shrub, your political newspeak is falling on deaf ears. Oh, 
sorry, maybe I should self-censor my thoughts to avoid being put in a 
're-education camp' by Ashcrofts gestappo? Gads, maybe someone on FoRK 
has joined your T.I.P.S. program and became an official citizen spy?


In disgust,
Elias


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0782.03d024d74f36ef492a9d8d5de300fb94.eml000066400000000000000000000066031444326627400312140ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 23 22:47:31 2002
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> *  Too much information?

The saying, as I recall, is along
the lines of "put your best foot
forward".

(In this case, you seem to have put
everything forward, in a Fosbury
Flop consisting of the best foot,
the worst foot, enough arms for a
diety and his consort, and even a
set of spare limbs from Hoffa or
the space aliens or whatever it is
you keep locked up in the trunk of
the Bonneville)

>           ... replied ... in one go, in a matter of minutes. I *do*
> really think this way, complete with footnotes. So if it's too much
> information, I still stand by my reply: I wouldn't be myself if I
> started off playing games.

Pascal could write short letters,
when he had the time.  Is editing
to provide an "executive summary"
really being untrue to yourself?

(We are all used to a full-bore
real-time Rohit streaming, but
that's because we are already
"Friends of", and know to set
our buffers accordingly.  For a
stranger's sake, it may be best
to provide the "elevator pitch
Rohit" -- and negotiate upwards
only after a session has been
established)

-Dave

:::::

Thomas Jefferson writes:
> I served with General Washington in the legislature of Virginia before
> the revolution and during it with Dr. Franklin in Congress. I never
> heard either of them speak [for as long as] ten minutes at a time ...


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0783.0d6a8bdec2d44f848cebb2e00e930f1a.eml000066400000000000000000000054371444326627400315010ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 23 22:47:32 2002
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>
> Sorry, Shrub, your political newspeak is falling on deaf ears. Oh, 
> sorry, maybe I should self-censor my thoughts to avoid being put in a 
> 're-education camp' by Ashcrofts gestappo? Gads, maybe someone on FoRK 
> has joined your T.I.P.S. program and became an official citizen spy?
>
>
> In disgust,
> Elias


Well the message was clear to me - the US wants to start an arms race to 
jack up their world arms sales monopoly.

Owen



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0784.ef6fd2c8cbdbfd6e8b95db4658190bb6.eml000066400000000000000000000057451444326627400316200ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 23 22:47:34 2002
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From: "Jim Whitehead" 
To: "Robert Harley" , 
Subject: RE: Goodbye Global Warming
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> Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:
> >and say hello to the cool:  Oooo ... /this/ is going to cause
> some stir ...
>
> Of course not.  Some people just don't want to be confused by the facts.

For anyone to fully bury global warming, they would need to explain why the
dramatic increase in CO2 concentrations are not increasing the global
temperature. They would also need to explain why, worldwide, glaciers are
melting faster than they have previously in the historical record. That is,
people need more than refutations, they need a compelling alternate
explanation (hint: climate variability doesn't cover all the bases).

- Jim


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0785.87d89ef541ee6678a7ec3e7009bebffb.eml000066400000000000000000000070521444326627400314660ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 23 22:47:36 2002
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To: "Jim Whitehead" 
Cc: "Robert Harley" , 
Subject: Re: Goodbye Global Warming
References: 
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
X-Home-Page: http://www.teledyn.com
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>>>>> "J" == Jim Whitehead  writes:

    J> For anyone to fully bury global warming, they would need to
    J> explain why the dramatic increase in CO2 concentrations are not
    J> increasing the global temperature. They would also need to
    J> explain why, worldwide, glaciers are melting faster than they
    J> have previously in the historical record. 

The associated links cover that: The surface temperature in spots
frequented by people is warmer (hence all our groundbased sensors
reporting global warming) although the overall environmental
temperature is decreasing.

Apparently, the real news is not that there is no global warming, but
that our models of the warming were seriously flawed by naive
convection models.  This too was not news to the theoreticians: All
that has happened is that NASA has confirmed the naiive convection
concerns.


-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
  "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0786.c64c284e8fb2b88945969afd14bc6d78.eml000066400000000000000000000114541444326627400312520ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 23 22:47:38 2002
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Subject: RE: Goodbye Global Warming
From: James Rogers 
To: Jim Whitehead 
Cc: fork@example.com
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"the historical record", by which you mean *human* historical record, is
highly overrated (nigh worthless) when you are talking about geological
timescales, even on topics with as short a timescale as climate.

My problem with global warming (or cooling for that matter), is that the
supposedly profound recent changes in temperature, both in absolute
terms and as a function time, very arguably fall well below the noise
floor of the natural fluctuations that have occurred over the last
50,000 years both in terms of absolute average temperature and the rate
of temperature change.  People unfamiliar with history of global
temperature since the advent of modern humans may think that a degree
here or there over a century is a lot, not realizing that global
temperatures regularly whipsaw with far greater extremity.  I therefore 
immediately dismiss any theory of global warming that cannot explain why
temperatures whipsawed more severely in pre-history than in the last
couple thousand years (which have been relatively calm by geological
standards).  This is a very inconvenient fact for people trying to use
climate to push a particular social agenda.

It is worth noting that underneath the receding glaciers deposited
during the last major ice age, they are finding substantial evidence of
humans living in what was a nice temperate climate before the glaciers
paved over their civilization.  The receding glaciers have turned into a
bit of an archaeological treasure chest, as they expose artifacts buried
in and underneath them as they shrink that have been preserved by the
ice for thousands of years.  I don't see any compelling reason to "save
the glaciers" anyway, particularly in light of the fact that their
existence has always been transient.

For anyone to insist that the current negligible fluctuations are
anthropogenic just heaps one ridiculous assertion upon another.  I'll
just stick with Occam's Razor for now.

In my humble opinion.

Cheers,

-James Rogers
 jamesr@best.com


On Mon, 2002-09-23 at 12:23, Jim Whitehead wrote:
> 
> For anyone to fully bury global warming, they would need to explain why the
> dramatic increase in CO2 concentrations are not increasing the global
> temperature. They would also need to explain why, worldwide, glaciers are
> melting faster than they have previously in the historical record. That is,
> people need more than refutations, they need a compelling alternate
> explanation (hint: climate variability doesn't cover all the bases).



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0787.38cb6e76b84f342ff95c30c099848cd9.eml000066400000000000000000000114041444326627400311650ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 23 22:47:41 2002
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For anyone to fully bury global warming, they would have to bury the
Greens.  A Green once said that if the Spotted Owl hadn't existed they
would have had to invent it.  So it is with global warming.  Their
fundamental opposition isn't to a warmer earth, it is to industrial
civilization.

The fact that the sattelites didn't match what the global warming
theorists said should be there is old news.  The news here is that the
temperature measures via sattelite have gotten even better and they have
been validated with a different means of measurement.

Rather than have to defend CO2 concentrations as not causing global
warming, people who believe in CO2 need a good explanation of the
"Medieval Warm Period".  Said period was warmer than what we have now,
and it obvioiusly wasn't caused by CO2.

In point of fact the predicted global warming due to CO2 is not caused
DIRECTLY by CO2.  CO2 doesn't trap that much heat.  Water vapor does,
and if you can get more water vapor in the air due to CO2 then you have
your warming theory.

Yet it would seem that the very stability of the earth's climate over
long periods argues not for an unstable system with positive feedback
loops but one where negative feedback loops predominate.

More water vapor can increase temperatuers, but that also leads to more
clouds.  Clouds both trap heat and reflect it, so it depends a great
deal on how the cloud formation shakes out.  Most climate models admit
they do clouds very poorly.

A good link is:
http://www.techcentralstation.be/2051/wrapper.jsp?PID=2051-100&CID=2051-
060302A


> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
Jim
> Whitehead
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 12:23 PM
> To: Robert Harley; fork@example.com
> Subject: RE: Goodbye Global Warming
> 
> > Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:
> > >and say hello to the cool:  Oooo ... /this/ is going to cause
> > some stir ...
> >
> > Of course not.  Some people just don't want to be confused by the
facts.
> 
> For anyone to fully bury global warming, they would need to explain
why
> the
> dramatic increase in CO2 concentrations are not increasing the global
> temperature. They would also need to explain why, worldwide, glaciers
are
> melting faster than they have previously in the historical record.
That
> is,
> people need more than refutations, they need a compelling alternate
> explanation (hint: climate variability doesn't cover all the bases).
> 
> - Jim
> 



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0788.cd3f2ceda8c91bd8bcf537a7421605e6.eml000066400000000000000000000060421444326627400314330ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 23 22:47:42 2002
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Subject: RE: Goodbye Global Warming
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>     J> For anyone to fully bury global warming, they would need to
>     J> explain why the dramatic increase in CO2 concentrations are not
>     J> increasing the global temperature.

You have not explained why the increase in CO2 concentrations is not
contributing to increasing global temperature.

> This too was not news to the theoreticians: All
> that has happened is that NASA has confirmed the naiive convection
> concerns.

Precisely which theoreticians do you mean? What, exactly, do you mean by a
global warming theoretician -- scientists in this area don't use that term.

I assure you that not all scientists performing modeling of global
temperature phenomena agree with your assertions.

- Jim


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From: "Jim Whitehead" 
To: "James Rogers" 
Cc: 
Subject: RE: Goodbye Global Warming
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> "the historical record", by which you mean *human* historical record, is
> highly overrated (nigh worthless) when you are talking about geological
> timescales, even on topics with as short a timescale as climate.

There has been a significant recent increase in global CO2 concentrations.
The vast preponderance of the new CO2 in the atmosphere is due to human
activity starting around the industrialization of Europe, and accelerating
after WWII. Most scientists studying global climate change believe that
these increased CO2 concentrations are the primary causal agent for
increased global warming. Hence our interest in items of human time scale.

> It is worth noting that underneath the receding glaciers deposited
> during the last major ice age, they are finding substantial evidence of
> humans living in what was a nice temperate climate before the glaciers
> paved over their civilization.  The receding glaciers have turned into a
> bit of an archaeological treasure chest, as they expose artifacts buried
> in and underneath them as they shrink that have been preserved by the
> ice for thousands of years.  I don't see any compelling reason to "save
> the glaciers" anyway, particularly in light of the fact that their
> existence has always been transient.

Most global climate change scientists would agree that temperatures in the
past have often been much warmer than today. The point of global warming
isn't to save the Earth -- the planet is not sentient. The point is to
understand and potentially reduce the impact of increasing temperatures on
global human activity.

> For anyone to insist that the current negligible fluctuations are
> anthropogenic just heaps one ridiculous assertion upon another.  I'll
> just stick with Occam's Razor for now.

The increase in atmospheric CO2 concentration is due to human activity.

It is generally accepted that increases in CO2 in a closed environment
subject to solar heating retain more of that solar energy. This is the
current best explanation for the high temperature of Venus. If the CO2
concentration goes up globally (which it has), then theory states the earth
should be retaining greater solar energy. This process may be slow, and may
be difficult to monitor due to the variability of temperatures worldwide. I
encourage you to refute any part of this causal chain linking CO2 to
eventual increases in global energy content, part of which will be evident
as heat.

- Jim


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0790.bad21961212b5cfb7d75bf3c45c840c6.eml000066400000000000000000000056131444326627400312550ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 23 22:47:45 2002
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "James Rogers" 

> 
> It is worth noting that underneath the receding glaciers deposited
> during the last major ice age, they are finding substantial evidence of
> humans living in what was a nice temperate climate before the glaciers
> paved over their civilization.  The receding glaciers have turned into a
> bit of an archaeological treasure chest, as they expose artifacts buried
> in and underneath them as they shrink that have been preserved by the
> ice for thousands of years.

Got bits?


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0791.0b633957da3fa40b511d8e56ad877722.eml000066400000000000000000000050161444326627400310450ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 23 22:47:47 2002
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Hall" 

> A Green once said that if the Spotted Owl hadn't existed they
> would have had to invent it.  
A Republican once said "I am not a crook".


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0792.aed10efc4504d5991f7894ffbd496ab4.eml000066400000000000000000000046731444326627400313750ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 23 22:47:49 2002
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--]> A Green once said that if the Spotted Owl hadn't existed they
--]> would have had to invent it.
--]A Republican once said "I am not a crook".
--]

Oh great, another round of Lableisms....Let me know when you get back to
real data..




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0793.d39943e77b6404bf634356296c94f409.eml000066400000000000000000000054451444326627400306660ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 23 22:48:12 2002
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"I did not have sex with that woman."

> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
Mr.
> FoRK
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 2:12 PM
> To: FoRK
> Subject: Re: Goodbye Global Warming
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Hall" 
> 
> > A Green once said that if the Spotted Owl hadn't existed they
> > would have had to invent it.
> A Republican once said "I am not a crook".



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Subject: Re: Goodbye Global Warming
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I've seen articles on this type of stuff passing through various forums
for several years.  I've always found archaeology interesting for no
particular reason.  Here is a recent article from U.S. News that I
actually still have in the dank recesses of my virtual repository.

-James Rogers
 jamesr@best.com


--------------------------------------------
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/020916/misc/16meltdown.htm

Defrosting the past

Ancient human and animal remains are melting out of glaciers, a bounty
of a warming world

BY ALEX MARKELS

As he hiked near Colorado's Continental Divide in the summer of 2001, Ed
Knapp noticed a strange shape jutting from a melting ice field at 13,000
feet. "It looked like a bison skull," the building contractor and
amateur archaeologist recalls. "I thought, 'That's strange. Bison don't
live this high up.' "

Knapp brought the skull to the Denver Museum of Nature and Science,
where scientists last month announced that it was indeed from a
bison�one that died about 340 years ago. "This was an extraordinary
discovery," says Russ Graham, the museum's chief curator, adding that it
could alter notions of the mountain environment centuries ago. "There's
probably a lot more like it yet to be found."

And not just bison. Colorado isn't the only place where glaciers and
snowfields are melting. Decades of unusual warmth in regions from Peru
to Alaska�a trend some think is linked to emissions from cars and
industry�have shrunk or thawed many of the world's 70,000 glaciers. As
the ice recedes, a treasure-trove of human and animal artifacts is
emerging, extraordinarily well preserved after centuries in the deep
freeze. The fabrics, wood, bone, and DNA-rich tissue found on the mucky
fringes of the ice are revising scientists' understanding of our
predecessors' health, habits, and technology, and the prey they pursued.

"It's mind-boggling how many different fields are being advanced through
studying these remains," says Johan Reinhard, a high-altitude
archaeologist and explorer-in-residence at the National Geographic
Society. Rare, spectacular finds like the frozen mummies he discovered
in the Andes of Peru in the 1990s and the legendary 5,300-year-old "Ice
Man," found at the edge of a receding glacier in the Alps in 1991, have
offered time capsules of cultural and biological information. Now, as
the ice continues to retreat, it is yielding not just occasional
treasures but long records of humans and animals in the high mountains.

Vanishing act. The trick is finding such specimens before Mother
Nature�and looters�take them first. Once uncovered, frozen remains can
deteriorate within hours or be gnawed by animals. Moreover, they're
often so well preserved when they emerge that people who come upon them
don't even realize they're ancient.

That was the case when three men hunting sheep near a high glacier in
British Columbia, Canada, three years ago saw what they thought was a
dead animal. "It looked a little like sealskin buried in the ice,"
recalls Warren Ward, a teacher from nearby Nelson. "But when I looked
closer I could see leather fringe from a coat and finger bones."

Figuring they had found the remains of another hunter, or perhaps a fur
trapper, the men stowed a flint knife and other artifacts in a Zip-Loc
bag and delivered them to local officials. Archaeologists later exhumed
the fallen hunter's body, along with a woven hat, fur clothing, and what
seemed to be a medicine bag. Carbon dating revealed that the hunter
lived about 550 years ago. Dubbed Kwaday Dan Ts'inchi, or Long Ago
Person Found, by people of the Champagne and Aishihik First Nations (who
may be his direct descendants), he is perhaps the best-preserved human
from the period ever found in North America.

Other findings from melting ice in the neighboring Yukon region could
explain what that long-ago person was doing in the mountains in the
first place. "Before this there was no archaeological record of people
living here," says Greg Hare, a Yukon government archaeologist. "Now we
see that this area was very much part of people's seasonal activities."

Like Ward's discovery, the search began by chance, when Kristin Benedek
caught a whiff of what smelled like a barnyard as she and her husband,
Gerry Kuzyk, hunted sheep at 6,000 feet in the mountains of the south
Yukon. They followed the scent to a melting patch of ice covered in
caribou dung. "It was really odd, because I knew there hadn't been
caribou in the area for at least 100 years," recalls Kuzyk, then a
wildlife biologist with the Yukon government.

Caribou cake. Returning a week later, he found "what looked like a
pencil with string wrapped around it." It turned out to be a
4,300-year-old atlatl, or spear thrower. Further investigation of the
ice patch�and scores of others around the region�revealed icy layer
cakes filled with caribou remains and human detritus chronicling 7,800
years of changing hunting practices.

Scientists now believe ancient caribou and other animals flocked to the
ice each summer to cool down and escape swarming mosquitoes and flies.
Hunters followed the game. They returned for centuries and discarded
some equipment in the ice. "We've got people hunting with throwing darts
up until 1,200 years ago," says Hare, who now oversees the research
project. "Then we see the first appearance of the bow and arrow about
1,300 years ago. And by 1,200 years ago, there's no more throwing
darts."

Now scientists are trying to make the search less a matter of luck. They
are developing sophisticated computer models that combine data on where
glaciers are melting fastest and where humans and animals are known to
have migrated to pinpoint the best places to search in Alaska's Wrangell
and St. Elias mountain ranges�the United States' most glaciated
terrain�and in the Andes. Johan Reinhard thinks the fast- thawing
European Alps could also deliver more findings, perhaps as exquisite as
the Ice Man. "Global warming is providing us high-altitude
archaeologists with some fantastic opportunities right now. We're
probably about the only ones happy about it."




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0795.6f8b4da0f06a9c055fc527562fe92330.eml000066400000000000000000000146611444326627400311400ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 23 22:48:30 2002
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Subject: How about subsidizing SSL access to Google?
From: Rohit Khare 
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[a cheeky letter to the editors of the Economist follows, along with the 
article I was commenting on... Rohit]

In your article about Chinese attempts to censor Google last week ("The 
Search Goes On", Sept. 19th), the followup correctly noted that the most 
subversive aspect of Google's service is not its card catalog, which 
merely points surfers in the right direction, but the entire library. By 
maintaining what amounts to a live backup of the entire World Wide Web, 
if you can get to Google's cache, you can read anything you'd like.

The techniques Chinese Internet Service Providers are using to enforce 
these rules, however, all depend on the fact that traffic to and from 
Google, or indeed almost all public websites, is unencrypted. Almost all 
Web browsers, however, include support for Secure Sockets Layer (SSL) 
encryption for securing credit card numbers and the like. Upgrading to 
SSL makes it effectively impossible for a 'man-in-the-middle' to meddle; 
censorship would have to be imposed on each individual computer in 
China. The only choice left is to either ban the entire site (range of 
IP addresses), but not the kind of selective filtering reported on in 
the article.

Of course, the additional computing power to encrypt all this traffic 
costs real money. If the United States is so concerned about the free 
flow of information, why shouldn't the Broadcasting Board of Governors 
sponsor an encrypted interface to Google, or for that matter, the rest 
of the Web?

To date, public diplomacy efforts have focused on public-sector 
programming for the Voice of America, Radio Sawa, and the like. Just 
imagine if the US government got into the business of subsidizing secure 
access to private-sector media instead. Nothing illustrates the freedom 
of the press as much as the wacky excess of the press itself -- and most 
of it is already salted away at Google and the Internet Archive project.

On second thought, I can hardly imagine this Administration *promoting* 
the use of encryption to uphold privacy rights. Never mind...

Best,
   Rohit Khare

===========================================================

The search goes on
China backtracks on banning Google�up to a point

Sep 19th 2002 | BEIJING
 From The Economist print edition

IN CHINESE, the nickname for Google, an American Internet search engine, 
is gougou, meaning �doggy�. For the country's fast-growing population of 
Internet users (46m, according to an official estimate), it is proving 
an elusive creature. Earlier this month, the Chinese authorities blocked 
access to Google from Internet service providers in China�apparently 
because the search engine helped Chinese users to get access to 
forbidden sites. Now, after an outcry from those users, access has been 
restored.

An unusual climbdown by China's zealous Internet censors? Hardly. More 
sophisticated controls have now been imposed that make it difficult to 
use Google to search for material deemed offensive to the government. 
Access is still blocked to the cached versions of web pages taken by 
Google as it trawls the Internet. These once provided a handy way for 
Chinese users to see material stored on blocked websites.

After the blocking of Google on August 31st, many Chinese Internet users 
posted messages on bulletin boards in China protesting against the move. 
Their anger was again aroused last week when some Chinese Internet 
providers began rerouting users trying to reach the blocked Google site 
to far less powerful search engines in China.

Duncan Clark, the head of a Beijing-based technology consultancy firm, 
BDA (China) Ltd, says China is trying a new tactic in its efforts to 
censor the Internet. Until recently, it had focused on blocking 
individual sites, including all pages stored on them. Now it seems to be 
filtering data transmitted to or from foreign websites to search for key 
words that might indicate undesirable content. For example earlier this 
week when using Eastnet, a Beijing-based Internet provider, a search on 
Google for Falun Gong�a quasi-Buddhist exercise sect outlawed in China�
usually aborted before all the results had time to appear. Such a search 
also rendered Google impossible to use for several minutes.


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How about this:   A bored FoRKer said:  "YAWN"

I believe Tom had it right.   Signal not noise.

I'll start:


              Los Angeles Times September 23, 2002 Monday
                   Copyright 2002 / Los Angeles Times
                            Los Angeles Times

September 23, 2002 Monday  Home Edition
SECTION: Main News Main News; Part 1; Page 13; National Desk
LENGTH: 1013 words
BYLINE: DANA CALVO, TIMES STAFF WRITER
DATELINE: SEATTLE

BODY:

The idea came at the end of a long, frustrating brown-bag session at a
public-policy think tank here.

The challenge was to save the city's child-care programs. Staring into
his empty coffee cup, the meeting coordinator's mind landed on an
unlikely solution: Put a tax--just a "benign" dime a shot--on
espresso.

That led to a petition signed by more than 20,000 Seattle residents,
and next year, voters will decide whether the tax becomes law, one
that taps right into Seattle's legendary addiction to coffee. This is,
after all, the town where Starbucks was born and where the $12 pound
of beans became a staple. There is one Starbucks for every 7,000
residents in Seattle, compared to one per 64,000 in New York. Seattle
also has two other major coffee chains, Tully's Coffee and Seattle's
Best Coffee, as well as countless cafes and espresso carts.

A recent poll showed that 74% of Seattle residents would vote for the
tax. "For people outside of Seattle who don't understand the
consumption of espresso, [the tax proposal] can be seen as crazy,"
said John Burbank, the think tank's executive director, "but it was
common sense."

Research by his nonprofit Economic Opportunity Institute showed that
people preferred a tax on liquor or beer over one on espresso. But
because of the large number of lattes and cappuccinos sold, a tax on
espresso could be lower than one levied on alcohol.

Burbank estimates the tax could generate $7 million to $10 million a
year. City Council aides dispute his figures, saying their research
shows the tax would bring in $1.5 million to $3 million a year.

Burbank's institute is funded by foundations and labor unions. The
think tank's mission is to promote public policy in the interests of
low-income people, and it has long championed child-care issues.

Burbank says the tax would restore cuts to the child-care programs
made earlier this year by Gov. Gary Locke. He also says it would
provide more low-income families with subsidies for child care,
improve preschool programs and increase teacher salaries.

At Bauhaus Books & Coffee, the sidewalk is dotted with tables of
customers for whom coffee is a half-day activity, not just a drink.

Espresso lovers like Chris Altman, who at a dime a day would spend an
extra $36.50 a year, said the investment is worth it. "I'm OK with
it," said the 35-year-old, stirring his iced latte. "The money's got
to come from somewhere."

Hope Revuelto, 25, was cooling her regular coffee ($1 because she
brought her own mug) and reading "Zen and the Art of Pottery." She
supports the initiative and said its critics are behaving as would be
expected of espresso drinkers: They want the most expensive thing on
the menu but resist paying 10 cents to help the needy.

Some say the tax isn't the issue; they just resent being singled out.

David Marsh, 45, a costume manager, drinks up to three espressos a
day, which means he'd be shelling out an extra $109.50 a year. "I, for
one, don't have kids, but I drink espresso," he said, as he sewed a
leather collar onto a chain-mail tunic. "I don't mind paying, but I
think everyone should pay."

Coffeehouses are steamed about it, and they've organized as
JOLT--Joined to Oppose the Latte Tax. Among the members are Seattle's
Chamber of Commerce and the city's two largest coffee franchises,
Starbucks and Tully's.

The tax would force coffeehouses to track sales of any beverage that
contains espresso, a task that could be an administrative nightmare
for smaller cafes, especially during the frantic morning rush. If
espresso counts come under suspicion, coffeehouse owners could face a
city audit.

University of Chicago economics professor Michael Greenstone said the tax doesn't add up. 

"The purpose of any tax is to be efficient and equitable, and this is
neither," he said. "On the efficiency side, it's surely going to lead
to costly efforts by both businesses and consumers to find ways to
avoid the tax. For example, Starbucks could claim that they are using
finely ground coffee, [instead of coffee run though an espresso maker]
and that consequently, they are exempt from the tax. Would they be
right? I don't know, but finding out will surely take lots of legal
fees that could have gone to child care.

"Of course, from a public-relations perspective, this is an ingenious
idea, and I mean that in a cynical way. They've pitted espresso
drinkers against child-care supporters, and who's going to side with
the espresso drinkers?"

In fact, the proposed tax has forced opponents into a political
two-step, where their criticism must remain a beat behind their public
stance of political correctness. In a liberal city like Seattle,
corporations continually advertise their commitment to social
activism, and throughout the debate over the initiative, JOLT members
prefaced their opposition with endorsements of good child care.

"Starbucks will continue to support early-learning and
childhood-development programs through the millions of dollars we
contribute annually," the company said. "However, Starbucks does not
understand why the Economic Opportunity Institute would recommend an
additional consumer tax on espresso beverages, or any other single
consumer product."

The City Council has yet to decide when the initiative will go before
voters next year. The initiative's authors say it is directed at
vendors; critics predict it will be passed on to consumers through
higher prices, effectively punishing them for their choice of coffee.
The tax would be applied to any drink with at least half an ounce of
espresso, including decaf. Drip coffee would be exempt.

Burbank says the tax would reach only a pre-selected group of
consumers who are wealthier than those who drink drip. So, he's been
pitching it as a modern-day Robin Hood tax, where the needy get a dime
every time the affluent spend $3 to $4 on an espresso.

It's the kind of political marketing that Fran Beulah, 43, finds
funny. "I drink espresso," she said, laughing, "and I am not rich."




JH> "I did not have sex with that woman."

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
JH> Mr.
>> FoRK
>> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 2:12 PM
>> To: FoRK
>> Subject: Re: Goodbye Global Warming
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "John Hall" 
>> 
>> > A Green once said that if the Spotted Owl hadn't existed they
>> > would have had to invent it.
>> A Republican once said "I am not a crook".





-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                            mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


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Sorry... I just had a run-in with a neighbor whom I've never met before who
pigeonholed me within one minute after I asked a question - he said 'Are you
one of them environmentalists?' For some reason that narrowminded attitude
of not listening to what I was saying and categorizing me into a box in his
little paranoid republican fantasy world just pissed me off.

Sheesh... I've been out of work too long...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom" 
To: "Mr. FoRK" 
Cc: "FoRK" 
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: Goodbye Global Warming


>
> --]> A Green once said that if the Spotted Owl hadn't existed they
> --]> would have had to invent it.
> --]A Republican once said "I am not a crook".
> --]
>
> Oh great, another round of Lableisms....Let me know when you get back to
> real data..
>


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Subject: RE: Re[2]: Goodbye Global Warming
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> From: bitbitch@magnesium.net [mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net]

> 
> Burbank says the tax would reach only a pre-selected group of
> consumers who are wealthier than those who drink drip. So, he's been
> pitching it as a modern-day Robin Hood tax, where the needy get a dime
> every time the affluent spend $3 to $4 on an espresso.

The people who pour the espresso aren't rich.  An interesting issue
might be how it affects employment.

Still, it is a 1% or less sales tax.  That might not make that big of a
difference.  

The costs of tracking revenue and collecting the tax might be onerous.
Worse than the cost of the tax itself.

Me: I hate coffee anyway.  But if they put a $.10/can tax on Diet Dr.
Pepper I might have to start buying them in Oregon.  (Yes, I drink that
much Diet Dr. Pepper).


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0799.eb9fe164fe9541253b4ab806626ab171.eml000066400000000000000000000162671444326627400311450ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 23 23:34:29 2002
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Subject: SF Weekly's Ultimate SF Date lineup :-)
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I love the absurd sense of humor it takes to build up such an elaborate 
evening only to note that "even if the date's a bust you can always have 
a hundred people up for cocktails" in your penthouse suite at the end of 
the night :-)

Personally, I'd put one point in favor of the Redwood Room over Lapis: 
on a weeknight, you can still whip out a TiBook and write, since it's a 
hotel bar. And it seems to give people all sorts of license to 
interrogate you as to why you're writing with a double of scotch :-)

Best,
   Rohit

> Five Best Ways to Impress Your Date
>
> You've met the biped of your dreams at the corner laundromat and, 
> wonder of wonders, she's agreed to go out with you this Saturday. Don't 
> blow it! Follow the instructions below and even if you impress your 
> date so much you never see her again, your evening will be a memorable 
> one. All you need are a chauffeur, a change of clothes, and several 
> hundred thousand dollars.
>
> Luxury Suite at Pacific Bell Park
>
> Third and King streets, 972-2000, www.sfgiants.com
>
> Kick off your date with an afternoon at the ballpark -- not just any 
> ballpark, but just about the best ballpark in the country, and not in 
> some drafty, behind-the-plate box seat but in one of the park's lushly 
> accessorized luxury suites. An elevator whisks you from a private 
> entrance on Willie Mays Plaza to your dwelling place above the infield. 
> Besides the excellent views of the bay, the park, and the Giants in 
> action, there's a balcony, a wet bar, a refrigerator, two televisions, 
> a stereo/CD player, a dual-line phone, Internet access, room service, 
> and a concierge to call you a cab or make your restaurant reservations 
> for you. No one is admitted without proper clearance, ensuring your 
> utmost privacy. Next: Pull yourself together for ...
>
> Cocktails at Lapis
>
> Pier 33 (Embarcadero at Bay), 982-0203,
>
> www.lapis-sf.com
>
> Now that the Redwood Room has devolved into just another velvet-rope 
> yuppie hangout, the city has no clear-cut, top-of-the-line cocktail 
> lounge such as Chicago's Pump Room or New York's King Cole Bar 
> (although Maxfield's, the Compass Rose, and the Top of the Mark are 
> excellent runners-up). Best of all is Lapis, where the wannabe Noel 
> Coward can sip an estimable Gibson in the lounge adjoining the dining 
> room. The dramatically backlit bar is framed by lush bronze draperies 
> that complement the room's deep-blue setting, and towering ceilings 
> give the lounge a graceful, airy ambience. Floor-to-ceiling windows 
> provide a lush panorama of the bay and the hills beyond.
>
>
> Dinner at the Dining Room
>
> Ritz-Carlton Hotel, 600 Stockton (between Pine and
>
> California), 296-7465, www.ritzcarlton.com
>
> Your next stop on the road to beguilement is one of the handsomest 
> dining rooms in the country. The tranquil sounds of a harp underscore a 
> sumptuous setting of polished mahogany, soft linens, and fine crystal 
> gleaming in the candlelight. Chef Sylvain Portay prepares luxurious 
> nouvelle cuisine in several courses: lobster salad with caviar cream; 
> turbot with crayfish and truffles; roasted squab with port-marinated 
> figs; saffron-poached pear with guanaja chocolate gratin. Sommelier 
> St�phane Lacroix maintains a fabulous cellar, the service is impeccable 
> and inviting, and intimate discourse is practically inevitable. Next:
>
> Charter the Rendezvous From Rendezvous Charters
>
> Pier 40 (in South Beach Harbor), 543-7333,
>
> www.baysail.com
>
> Nothing's more enticing than an evening cruise around San Francisco 
> Bay, and the islands, bridges, and lights of the city are especially 
> entrancing viewed from this vintage brigantine schooner. Built in 1933 
> and recently restored to its former glory, the 78-foot Rendezvous looks 
> like a clipper ship out of the Gold Rush era, with its 80-foot masts 
> and square-rigged sails. Intricately carved mahogany, pecan, ash, and 
> rosewood accent the brass-railed, velvet-cushioned rooms below decks, 
> the perfect spot for a sip of Veuve Cliquot and some subtle canoodling.
>
> Penthouse Suite at the Fairmont Hotel
>
> 950 Mason (between California and Sacramento),
>
> 772-5000, www.fairmont.com
>
> Last but not least, escort your companion to what has been described as 
> the most expensive hotel accommodation in the world: the Fairmont's 
> elaborate penthouse. The eight-room suite (including three bedrooms, 
> three baths, a dining room, a library, a billiard room, a fully 
> equipped kitchen, and a living room with fireplace and baby grand 
> piano) comes with its own maid, butler, and limousine and is accessed 
> by private elevator. The library alone is worth investigating: two 
> circular floors of books encapsulated by a domed ceiling etched with 
> the constellations. The view from the terrace is enthralling, and even 
> if the date's a bust you can always have a hundred people up for 
> cocktails.
>
> sfweekly.com | originally published: May 15, 2002


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0800.ade9f54d2342efc6cd3ab051eeb6770a.eml000066400000000000000000000044601444326627400314660ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 23 23:45:34 2002
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From: Tom 
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Subject: Googlenews
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The further googlization of my screentimes....News...No not just
news...google news. I love the line that tells me how fresh/stale the news
item is....phreaking cewl.

So far I like the content range.




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0801.d432213b6f824b0542ce97ae154a15c8.eml000066400000000000000000000057561444326627400310350ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 23 23:56:48 2002
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Subject: Here Come Da Feds
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The damn Federalists are at it again, another bumsrush on Oregons states
rights..

[Being a 5 year translplant out here I say the best thing to do is bring
back the plans to make the state of Jefferson, then have Oregon,
Washington and Jefferson break away from the union.]

http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/09/23/oregon.assisted.suicide/

SAN FRANCISCO, California (CNN) -- The U.S.
Justice Department filed an appeal Monday to
overturn a federal judge's ruling that
upheld Oregon's doctor-assisted suicide law.

A spokesman for Oregon Attorney General
Hardy Myers said the state views the appeal
as "same story, different day."

Oregon voters approved doctor-assisted
suicide twice, in ballot initiatives in 1994
and 1997. But in November, U.S. Attorney
General John Ashcroft warned Oregon doctors
they would be prosecuted under federal law
if they prescribed lethal doses of drugs for
dying patients.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0802.ad16df843d76e5c7e04b7515dafd6202.eml000066400000000000000000000065721444326627400312650ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 23 23:56:50 2002
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From: "Russell Turpin" 
To: fork@example.com
Subject: Re: SF Weekly's Ultimate SF Date lineup :-)
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SF Weekly:
>Nothing's more enticing than an evening cruise around San Francisco Bay, 
>and the islands, bridges, and lights of the city are especially entrancing 
>viewed from this vintage brigantine schooner. Built in 1933 and recently 
>restored to its former glory, the 78-foot Rendezvous looks like a clipper 
>ship out of the Gold Rush era, with its 80-foot masts and square-rigged 
>sails.

That sounds like fun. But it sets the wrong precedent.
Here's the better idea. Invite her for an afternoon
cruise under the Golden Gate bridge in your Stonehorse
day sailor. Under way, ask her if she'd like to take
the stick. Back at slip, cook her dinner. Something
simple, but good, maybe a stir fry or a stew, served
in the cockpit, with an inexpensive but potable wine.

If she runs away after that, 'tis good riddance. If
she wants to try it again, another day, she shows
promise. If she asks you to show her the V berth, you
have a girlfriend. If she notes your brightwork needs
another coat, and asks what you're using on it,
propose on the spot.

;-)


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: 
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0803.87956a6c8c2637ad52cb670a5385faf2.eml000066400000000000000000000063461444326627400311420ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 24 10:48:34 2002
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From: Tom 
To: Russell Turpin 
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Subject: Re: SF Weekly's Ultimate SF Date lineup :-)
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On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Russell Turpin wrote:

--]Here's the better idea. Invite her for an afternoon
--]cruise under the Golden Gate bridge in your Stonehorse
--]day sailor.


Good way, heres one that worked for me.

Work on a database project with that person. After a while hand her the
keyboard to go get some lunch.

If when you come back she is talking to the person in the next cube about
survivor all the time you were gone...go for the one night boom boom plan

If when you return she has read thru the help screen to try to figure out
what your working on...go fro the week long dine and do with options for
more IF she finishes the help docs and does some code.

If when you come back she has done some  work on the db's infrastructure,
cleaned up your code and made a few  "additions" to make it work
better and figures that since you have done enough work for the day  asks
that you bring lunch and your lap top to the big  screen projection room
to watch your new DVD of startship troopers..marry her



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0804.7c961dbb9d03dce55e6d4330a7de92c6.eml000066400000000000000000000051231444326627400313440ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 24 10:48:35 2002
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From: Tom 
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Subject: Not just like a virgin...a virgin...birth
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Rare Virgin Shark Births Reported in Detroit
Voice of America - 5 hours ago
A female shark has become a single mother - in the strictest sense of the
term. Officials at Detroit's Belle Isle Aquarium say a shark there
recently produced three babies in an event they are calling virgin births.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/Midwest/09/23/offbeat.shark.births.ap/
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/4124307.htm
http://www.startribune.com/stories/1451/3320433.html




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0805.f275674c050884c5ad02c1b6fac94e30.eml000066400000000000000000000236071444326627400311210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 24 10:48:38 2002
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From: "Geege Schuman" 
To: "R. A. Hettinga" ,
	"Geege Schuman" ,
	"Owen Byrne" 
Cc: "Gary Lawrence Murphy" ,
	"Mr. FoRK" , ,
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First, misattribution.  I did not write the blurb below.  I made one
statement about VP Cheney only, to wit, that he has a short memory.

I couldn't agree with you more on this: "in short, then, economics is not a
zero sum game, property is not theft, the rich don't get rich off the backs
of the poor, and redistributionist labor "theory" of value happy horseshit
is just that: horseshit, happy or otherwise," however, I resent being lumped
in a zero-sum-zealot category for suggesting nothing more than that rich and
successful at face value is apropos of nothing and I am beginning to
understand that people who immediately and so fiercely object to my ad
hominem (re Cheney) align themselves weird sylogisms like "if rich then
deservedly" or "if rich then smarter."  Given that, I am also beginning to
understand why some people NEED to be rich.

WRT to meritocracies - all hail, meritocracies!  WRT Harvard: over 90% of
2002 graduates were cum laude +. INTERESTING curve.  Those eager to be
measured got their wish; those unwashed shy folk who just live it provide
the balast.

Speaking of Forbes, was reading about Peter Norton just today in an old
issue while waiting for my doctor.  Norton attributes his success to LUCK.
Imagine.

Geege

-----Original Message-----
From: R. A. Hettinga [mailto:rah@shipwright.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 10:01 PM
To: Geege Schuman; Owen Byrne
Cc: Gary Lawrence Murphy; Mr. FoRK; fork@example.com; Digital Bearer
Settlement List
Subject: Comrade Communism (was Re: Crony Capitalism (was RE: sed
/s/United States/Roman Empire/g))


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

At 11:15 AM -0400 on 9/22/02, Geege Schuman wrote:


> Most of them seem to have Ivy League educations, or are Ivy League
> dropouts suggesting to me that they weren't exactly poor to start
> with.

Actually, if I remember correctly from discussion of the list's
composition in Forbes about five or six years ago, the *best* way to
get on the Forbes 400 is to have *no* college at all. Can you say
"Bootstraps", boys and girls? I knew you could...

[Given that an undergraduate liberal arts degree from a state school,
like, say, mine, :-), is nothing but stuff they should have taught
you in a government-run "high" school, you'll probably get more of
*those* on the Forbes 400 as well as time goes on. If we ever get
around to having a good old fashioned government-collapsing
transfer-payment depression (an economic version of this summer's
government-forest conflagration, caused by the same kind of
innumeracy that not clear-cutting enough forests did out west this
summer :-)) that should motivate more than a few erst-slackers out
there, including me, :-), to learn to actually feed themselves.]


The *next* category on the Forbes 400 list is someone with a
"terminal" professional degree, like an MBA, PhD, MD, etc., from the
best school possible.

Why? Because, as of about 1950, the *best* way to get into Harvard,
for instance, is to be *smart*, not rich. Don't take my word for it,
ask their admissions office. Look at the admissions stats over the
years for proof.

Meritocracy, American Style, was *invented* at the Ivy League after
World War II. Even Stanford got the hint, :-), and, of course,
Chicago taught them all how, right? :-). Practically *nobody* who
goes to a top-20 American institution of higher learning can actually
afford to go there these days. Unless, of course, their parents, who
couldn't afford to go there themselves, got terminal degrees in the
last 40 years or so. And their kids *still* had to get the grades,
and "biased" (by intelligence :-)), test scores, to get in.


The bizarre irony is that almost all of those people with "terminal"
degrees, until they actually *own* something and *hire* people, or
learn to *make* something for a living all day on a profit and loss
basis, persist in the practically insane belief, like life after
death, that economics is some kind of zero sum game, that dumb people
who don't work hard for it make all the money, and, if someone *is*
smart, works hard, and is rich, then they stole their wealth somehow.

BTW, none of you guys out there holding the short end of this
rhetorical stick can blame *me* for the fact that I'm using it to
beat you severely all over your collective head and shoulders. You
were, apparently, too dumb to grab the right end. *I* went to
Missouri, and *I* don't have a degree in anything actually useful,
much less a "terminal" one, which means *I*'m broker than anyone on
this list -- it's just that *you*, of all people, lots with
educations far surpassing my own, should just plain know better. The
facts speak for themselves, if you just open your eyes and *look*.
There are no epicycles, the universe does not orbit the earth, and
economics is not a zero-sum game. The cost of anything, including
ignorance and destitution, is the forgone alternative, in this case,
intelligence and effort.

[I will, however, admit to being educated *waay* past my level of
competence, and, by the way *you* discuss economics, so have you,
apparently.]



BTW, if we ever actually *had* free markets in this country,
*including* the abolition of redistributive income and death taxes,
all those smart people in the Forbes 400 would have *more* money, and
there would be *more* self-made people on that list. In addition,
most of the people who *inherited* money on the list would have
*much* less of it, not even relatively speaking. Finally, practically
all of that "new" money would have come from economic efficiency and
not "stolen" from someone else, investment bubbles or not.

That efficiency is called "progress", for those of you in The
People's Republics of Berkeley or Cambridge. It means more and better
stuff, cheaper, over time -- a terrible, petit-bourgeois concept
apparently not worthy of teaching by the educational elite, or you'd
know about it by now. In economic terms, it's also called an increase
in general welfare, and, no, Virginia, I'm not talking about
extorting money from someone who works, and giving it to someone who
doesn't in order to keep them from working and they can think of some
politician as Santa Claus come election time...


In short, then, economics is not a zero sum game, property is not
theft, the rich don't get rich off the backs of the poor, and
redistributionist labor "theory" of value happy horseshit is just
that: horseshit, happy or otherwise.

To believe otherwise, is -- quite literally, given the time Marx
wrote Capital and the Manifesto -- romantic nonsense.

Cheers,
RAH

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--
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0806.2eae7f9f133274ed400a215174b7de1d.eml000066400000000000000000000174011444326627400311700ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 24 10:48:41 2002
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From: "Gordon Mohr" 
To: 
References: 
Subject: Re: How about subsidizing SSL access to Google?
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Good idea!

This could also be a job for P2P; lots of people would love to
devote their spare cycles, bandwidth, and unblocked IP addresses
to giving the Chinese unfettered net access.

In a sense, this is what the "peek-a-booty" project does:

   http://www.peek-a-booty.org

But let's play out the next few moves:

Good Guys: Google enables SSL access
 Bad Guys: Chinese government again blocks all access to Google domains
Good Guys: Set up Google proxies on ever-changing set of hosts (peek-a-booty)
 Bad Guys: Ban SSL (or any unlicensed opaque traffic) at the national firewall
Good Guys: Hide Google traffic inside other innocuous-looking activity
 Bad Guys: Require nationwide installation of client-side NetNannyish
           software
Good Guys: Offer software which disables/spoofs monitoring software
 Bad Guys: Imprison and harvest organs from people found using
           monitoring-disabling-software

...and on and on.

The best we can hope is that technological cleverness, by raising the
costs of oppression or by provoking intolerable oppression, brings
social liberalization sooner rather than later.

- Gordon

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rohit Khare" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 2:44 PM
Subject: How about subsidizing SSL access to Google?


[a cheeky letter to the editors of the Economist follows, along with the
article I was commenting on... Rohit]

In your article about Chinese attempts to censor Google last week ("The
Search Goes On", Sept. 19th), the followup correctly noted that the most
subversive aspect of Google's service is not its card catalog, which
merely points surfers in the right direction, but the entire library. By
maintaining what amounts to a live backup of the entire World Wide Web,
if you can get to Google's cache, you can read anything you'd like.

The techniques Chinese Internet Service Providers are using to enforce
these rules, however, all depend on the fact that traffic to and from
Google, or indeed almost all public websites, is unencrypted. Almost all
Web browsers, however, include support for Secure Sockets Layer (SSL)
encryption for securing credit card numbers and the like. Upgrading to
SSL makes it effectively impossible for a 'man-in-the-middle' to meddle;
censorship would have to be imposed on each individual computer in
China. The only choice left is to either ban the entire site (range of
IP addresses), but not the kind of selective filtering reported on in
the article.

Of course, the additional computing power to encrypt all this traffic
costs real money. If the United States is so concerned about the free
flow of information, why shouldn't the Broadcasting Board of Governors
sponsor an encrypted interface to Google, or for that matter, the rest
of the Web?

To date, public diplomacy efforts have focused on public-sector
programming for the Voice of America, Radio Sawa, and the like. Just
imagine if the US government got into the business of subsidizing secure
access to private-sector media instead. Nothing illustrates the freedom
of the press as much as the wacky excess of the press itself -- and most
of it is already salted away at Google and the Internet Archive project.

On second thought, I can hardly imagine this Administration *promoting*
the use of encryption to uphold privacy rights. Never mind...

Best,
   Rohit Khare

===========================================================

The search goes on
China backtracks on banning Google�up to a point

Sep 19th 2002 | BEIJING
 From The Economist print edition

IN CHINESE, the nickname for Google, an American Internet search engine,
is gougou, meaning �doggy�. For the country's fast-growing population of
Internet users (46m, according to an official estimate), it is proving
an elusive creature. Earlier this month, the Chinese authorities blocked
access to Google from Internet service providers in China�apparently
because the search engine helped Chinese users to get access to
forbidden sites. Now, after an outcry from those users, access has been
restored.

An unusual climbdown by China's zealous Internet censors? Hardly. More
sophisticated controls have now been imposed that make it difficult to
use Google to search for material deemed offensive to the government.
Access is still blocked to the cached versions of web pages taken by
Google as it trawls the Internet. These once provided a handy way for
Chinese users to see material stored on blocked websites.

After the blocking of Google on August 31st, many Chinese Internet users
posted messages on bulletin boards in China protesting against the move.
Their anger was again aroused last week when some Chinese Internet
providers began rerouting users trying to reach the blocked Google site
to far less powerful search engines in China.

Duncan Clark, the head of a Beijing-based technology consultancy firm,
BDA (China) Ltd, says China is trying a new tactic in its efforts to
censor the Internet. Until recently, it had focused on blocking
individual sites, including all pages stored on them. Now it seems to be
filtering data transmitted to or from foreign websites to search for key
words that might indicate undesirable content. For example earlier this
week when using Eastnet, a Beijing-based Internet provider, a search on
Google for Falun Gong�a quasi-Buddhist exercise sect outlawed in China�
usually aborted before all the results had time to appear. Such a search
also rendered Google impossible to use for several minutes.



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0807.f71b636c06421f0cddb167eed4c0be82.eml000066400000000000000000000270421444326627400313330ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 24 10:48:44 2002
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Reply-To: 
From: "John Hall" 
To: "FoRK" 
Subject: Pluck and Luck
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Anyone who doesn't appreciate both PLUCK and LUCK is only looking at
part of the equation.

America has, in fact, moved hard toward Meritocracy.  But -- and this is
a huge one -- you don't necessarily find it on the Forbes list.  There
is an element of LUCK, even if only being in the right place at the
right time, to go that high.

Beyond the Forbes List, there are many ways in which almost pure LUCK is
involved in significant wealth.  Being a super-model, for example.
Though I think most people would be surprised by a lot of super-models.
Cindy Crawford was valedictorian of her high school.

Most people, of course, aren't in those stratified realms.  It is the
rest of us who tend to sort.

There is a huge philosophical problem with the concept of Merit in the
first place.  Rawls claims Merit doesn't exist.  Sowell seems to agree
at least in part, but I'm sure Sowell would also state that the benefits
of pretending it exists for society at large are enormous.

And if Merit does exist then exactly what is it measuring?  IQ?  Purity
of heart?  Or the ability to satisfy customers?  Functionally most
people seem to equate Merit with IQ though they say it would be better
if it were purity of heart.  Yet the type of Merit that lands you on the
Forbes list, or even just being a garden variety 'millionaire next door'
is more likely to be the 'serving customers' definition.

Differences due to merit, when they are perceived as such, generate far
more animosity than differences due to luck.  Luck can be forgiven.
Superior performance, often not.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
Geege
> Schuman
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 4:44 PM
> To: R. A. Hettinga; Geege Schuman; Owen Byrne
> Cc: Gary Lawrence Murphy; Mr. FoRK; fork@example.com; Digital Bearer
> Settlement List
> Subject: RE: Comrade Communism (was Re: Crony Capitalism (was RE: sed
> /s/United States/Roman Empire/g))
> 
> First, misattribution.  I did not write the blurb below.  I made one
> statement about VP Cheney only, to wit, that he has a short memory.
> 
> I couldn't agree with you more on this: "in short, then, economics is
not
> a
> zero sum game, property is not theft, the rich don't get rich off the
> backs
> of the poor, and redistributionist labor "theory" of value happy
horseshit
> is just that: horseshit, happy or otherwise," however, I resent being
> lumped
> in a zero-sum-zealot category for suggesting nothing more than that
rich
> and
> successful at face value is apropos of nothing and I am beginning to
> understand that people who immediately and so fiercely object to my ad
> hominem (re Cheney) align themselves weird sylogisms like "if rich
then
> deservedly" or "if rich then smarter."  Given that, I am also
beginning to
> understand why some people NEED to be rich.
> 
> WRT to meritocracies - all hail, meritocracies!  WRT Harvard: over 90%
of
> 2002 graduates were cum laude +. INTERESTING curve.  Those eager to be
> measured got their wish; those unwashed shy folk who just live it
provide
> the balast.
> 
> Speaking of Forbes, was reading about Peter Norton just today in an
old
> issue while waiting for my doctor.  Norton attributes his success to
LUCK.
> Imagine.
> 
> Geege
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: R. A. Hettinga [mailto:rah@shipwright.com]
> Sent: Sunday, September 22, 2002 10:01 PM
> To: Geege Schuman; Owen Byrne
> Cc: Gary Lawrence Murphy; Mr. FoRK; fork@example.com; Digital Bearer
> Settlement List
> Subject: Comrade Communism (was Re: Crony Capitalism (was RE: sed
> /s/United States/Roman Empire/g))
> 
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> At 11:15 AM -0400 on 9/22/02, Geege Schuman wrote:
> 
> 
> > Most of them seem to have Ivy League educations, or are Ivy League
> > dropouts suggesting to me that they weren't exactly poor to start
> > with.
> 
> Actually, if I remember correctly from discussion of the list's
> composition in Forbes about five or six years ago, the *best* way to
> get on the Forbes 400 is to have *no* college at all. Can you say
> "Bootstraps", boys and girls? I knew you could...
> 
> [Given that an undergraduate liberal arts degree from a state school,
> like, say, mine, :-), is nothing but stuff they should have taught
> you in a government-run "high" school, you'll probably get more of
> *those* on the Forbes 400 as well as time goes on. If we ever get
> around to having a good old fashioned government-collapsing
> transfer-payment depression (an economic version of this summer's
> government-forest conflagration, caused by the same kind of
> innumeracy that not clear-cutting enough forests did out west this
> summer :-)) that should motivate more than a few erst-slackers out
> there, including me, :-), to learn to actually feed themselves.]
> 
> 
> The *next* category on the Forbes 400 list is someone with a
> "terminal" professional degree, like an MBA, PhD, MD, etc., from the
> best school possible.
> 
> Why? Because, as of about 1950, the *best* way to get into Harvard,
> for instance, is to be *smart*, not rich. Don't take my word for it,
> ask their admissions office. Look at the admissions stats over the
> years for proof.
> 
> Meritocracy, American Style, was *invented* at the Ivy League after
> World War II. Even Stanford got the hint, :-), and, of course,
> Chicago taught them all how, right? :-). Practically *nobody* who
> goes to a top-20 American institution of higher learning can actually
> afford to go there these days. Unless, of course, their parents, who
> couldn't afford to go there themselves, got terminal degrees in the
> last 40 years or so. And their kids *still* had to get the grades,
> and "biased" (by intelligence :-)), test scores, to get in.
> 
> 
> The bizarre irony is that almost all of those people with "terminal"
> degrees, until they actually *own* something and *hire* people, or
> learn to *make* something for a living all day on a profit and loss
> basis, persist in the practically insane belief, like life after
> death, that economics is some kind of zero sum game, that dumb people
> who don't work hard for it make all the money, and, if someone *is*
> smart, works hard, and is rich, then they stole their wealth somehow.
> 
> BTW, none of you guys out there holding the short end of this
> rhetorical stick can blame *me* for the fact that I'm using it to
> beat you severely all over your collective head and shoulders. You
> were, apparently, too dumb to grab the right end. *I* went to
> Missouri, and *I* don't have a degree in anything actually useful,
> much less a "terminal" one, which means *I*'m broker than anyone on
> this list -- it's just that *you*, of all people, lots with
> educations far surpassing my own, should just plain know better. The
> facts speak for themselves, if you just open your eyes and *look*.
> There are no epicycles, the universe does not orbit the earth, and
> economics is not a zero-sum game. The cost of anything, including
> ignorance and destitution, is the forgone alternative, in this case,
> intelligence and effort.
> 
> [I will, however, admit to being educated *waay* past my level of
> competence, and, by the way *you* discuss economics, so have you,
> apparently.]
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, if we ever actually *had* free markets in this country,
> *including* the abolition of redistributive income and death taxes,
> all those smart people in the Forbes 400 would have *more* money, and
> there would be *more* self-made people on that list. In addition,
> most of the people who *inherited* money on the list would have
> *much* less of it, not even relatively speaking. Finally, practically
> all of that "new" money would have come from economic efficiency and
> not "stolen" from someone else, investment bubbles or not.
> 
> That efficiency is called "progress", for those of you in The
> People's Republics of Berkeley or Cambridge. It means more and better
> stuff, cheaper, over time -- a terrible, petit-bourgeois concept
> apparently not worthy of teaching by the educational elite, or you'd
> know about it by now. In economic terms, it's also called an increase
> in general welfare, and, no, Virginia, I'm not talking about
> extorting money from someone who works, and giving it to someone who
> doesn't in order to keep them from working and they can think of some
> politician as Santa Claus come election time...
> 
> 
> In short, then, economics is not a zero sum game, property is not
> theft, the rich don't get rich off the backs of the poor, and
> redistributionist labor "theory" of value happy horseshit is just
> that: horseshit, happy or otherwise.
> 
> To believe otherwise, is -- quite literally, given the time Marx
> wrote Capital and the Manifesto -- romantic nonsense.
> 
> Cheers,
> RAH
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: PGP 7.5
> 
> iQA/AwUBPY511cPxH8jf3ohaEQLAsgCfZhsQMSvUy6GqJ5wgL52DwZKpIhMAnRuR
> YYboc+IcylP5TlKL58jpwEfu
> =z877
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> --
> -----------------
> R. A. Hettinga 
> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
> "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
> [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
> experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'
> 
> 



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0808.426e30e31a3d3fab634e31e8aeb30c34.eml000066400000000000000000000212401444326627400312310ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 24 10:48:50 2002
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Thanks for the link - I'm fascinated by archaeology as well.

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Rogers" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 2:48 PM
Subject: Re: Goodbye Global Warming


I've seen articles on this type of stuff passing through various forums
for several years.  I've always found archaeology interesting for no
particular reason.  Here is a recent article from U.S. News that I
actually still have in the dank recesses of my virtual repository.

-James Rogers
 jamesr@best.com


--------------------------------------------
http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/020916/misc/16meltdown.htm

Defrosting the past

Ancient human and animal remains are melting out of glaciers, a bounty
of a warming world

BY ALEX MARKELS

As he hiked near Colorado's Continental Divide in the summer of 2001, Ed
Knapp noticed a strange shape jutting from a melting ice field at 13,000
feet. "It looked like a bison skull," the building contractor and
amateur archaeologist recalls. "I thought, 'That's strange. Bison don't
live this high up.' "

Knapp brought the skull to the Denver Museum of Nature and Science,
where scientists last month announced that it was indeed from a
bison�one that died about 340 years ago. "This was an extraordinary
discovery," says Russ Graham, the museum's chief curator, adding that it
could alter notions of the mountain environment centuries ago. "There's
probably a lot more like it yet to be found."

And not just bison. Colorado isn't the only place where glaciers and
snowfields are melting. Decades of unusual warmth in regions from Peru
to Alaska�a trend some think is linked to emissions from cars and
industry�have shrunk or thawed many of the world's 70,000 glaciers. As
the ice recedes, a treasure-trove of human and animal artifacts is
emerging, extraordinarily well preserved after centuries in the deep
freeze. The fabrics, wood, bone, and DNA-rich tissue found on the mucky
fringes of the ice are revising scientists' understanding of our
predecessors' health, habits, and technology, and the prey they pursued.

"It's mind-boggling how many different fields are being advanced through
studying these remains," says Johan Reinhard, a high-altitude
archaeologist and explorer-in-residence at the National Geographic
Society. Rare, spectacular finds like the frozen mummies he discovered
in the Andes of Peru in the 1990s and the legendary 5,300-year-old "Ice
Man," found at the edge of a receding glacier in the Alps in 1991, have
offered time capsules of cultural and biological information. Now, as
the ice continues to retreat, it is yielding not just occasional
treasures but long records of humans and animals in the high mountains.

Vanishing act. The trick is finding such specimens before Mother
Nature�and looters�take them first. Once uncovered, frozen remains can
deteriorate within hours or be gnawed by animals. Moreover, they're
often so well preserved when they emerge that people who come upon them
don't even realize they're ancient.

That was the case when three men hunting sheep near a high glacier in
British Columbia, Canada, three years ago saw what they thought was a
dead animal. "It looked a little like sealskin buried in the ice,"
recalls Warren Ward, a teacher from nearby Nelson. "But when I looked
closer I could see leather fringe from a coat and finger bones."

Figuring they had found the remains of another hunter, or perhaps a fur
trapper, the men stowed a flint knife and other artifacts in a Zip-Loc
bag and delivered them to local officials. Archaeologists later exhumed
the fallen hunter's body, along with a woven hat, fur clothing, and what
seemed to be a medicine bag. Carbon dating revealed that the hunter
lived about 550 years ago. Dubbed Kwaday Dan Ts'inchi, or Long Ago
Person Found, by people of the Champagne and Aishihik First Nations (who
may be his direct descendants), he is perhaps the best-preserved human
from the period ever found in North America.

Other findings from melting ice in the neighboring Yukon region could
explain what that long-ago person was doing in the mountains in the
first place. "Before this there was no archaeological record of people
living here," says Greg Hare, a Yukon government archaeologist. "Now we
see that this area was very much part of people's seasonal activities."

Like Ward's discovery, the search began by chance, when Kristin Benedek
caught a whiff of what smelled like a barnyard as she and her husband,
Gerry Kuzyk, hunted sheep at 6,000 feet in the mountains of the south
Yukon. They followed the scent to a melting patch of ice covered in
caribou dung. "It was really odd, because I knew there hadn't been
caribou in the area for at least 100 years," recalls Kuzyk, then a
wildlife biologist with the Yukon government.

Caribou cake. Returning a week later, he found "what looked like a
pencil with string wrapped around it." It turned out to be a
4,300-year-old atlatl, or spear thrower. Further investigation of the
ice patch�and scores of others around the region�revealed icy layer
cakes filled with caribou remains and human detritus chronicling 7,800
years of changing hunting practices.

Scientists now believe ancient caribou and other animals flocked to the
ice each summer to cool down and escape swarming mosquitoes and flies.
Hunters followed the game. They returned for centuries and discarded
some equipment in the ice. "We've got people hunting with throwing darts
up until 1,200 years ago," says Hare, who now oversees the research
project. "Then we see the first appearance of the bow and arrow about
1,300 years ago. And by 1,200 years ago, there's no more throwing
darts."

Now scientists are trying to make the search less a matter of luck. They
are developing sophisticated computer models that combine data on where
glaciers are melting fastest and where humans and animals are known to
have migrated to pinpoint the best places to search in Alaska's Wrangell
and St. Elias mountain ranges�the United States' most glaciated
terrain�and in the Andes. Johan Reinhard thinks the fast- thawing
European Alps could also deliver more findings, perhaps as exquisite as
the Ice Man. "Global warming is providing us high-altitude
archaeologists with some fantastic opportunities right now. We're
probably about the only ones happy about it."


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0809.371aae7cab194e25613d5b4b2cd8b6ea.eml000066400000000000000000000060411444326627400314060ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 24 10:48:52 2002
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Of the three lying politicians, which liar would you take?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Hall" 
To: "FoRK" 
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 2:23 PM
Subject: RE: Goodbye Global Warming


> "I did not have sex with that woman."
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
> Mr.
> > FoRK
> > Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 2:12 PM
> > To: FoRK
> > Subject: Re: Goodbye Global Warming
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Hall" 
> > 
> > > A Green once said that if the Spotted Owl hadn't existed they
> > > would have had to invent it.
> > A Republican once said "I am not a crook".
> 


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0810.0b45692b95f22dd7373a9f464e96a518.eml000066400000000000000000000062501444326627400310000ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 24 10:49:23 2002
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	Digital Bearer Settlement List 
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At 5:22 PM -0400 on 9/23/02, Tom wrote:


> --]> A Green once said that if the Spotted Owl hadn't existed they
> --]> would have had to invent it.
> --]A Republican once said "I am not a crook".
> --]
>
> Oh great, another round of Lableisms....Let me know when you get back to
> real data..

Not me. I have another one, instead:

         Green = Red.

;-).

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


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At 2:57 PM -0700 on 9/23/02, Mr. FoRK wrote:


> I just had a run-in with a neighbor whom I've never met before who
> pigeonholed me within one minute after I asked a question - he said 'Are you
> one of them environmentalists?' 
>
> Sheesh... I've been out of work too long...

We'll ignore the possibility of a correlation here in the interest of
charity...

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


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From: Tom 
To: Gordon Mohr 
Cc: fork@example.com
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On Mon, 23 Sep 2002, Gordon Mohr wrote:
--]
--]The best we can hope is that technological cleverness, by raising the
--]costs of oppression or by provoking intolerable oppression, brings
--]social liberalization sooner rather than later.

In a very real sense we are still playing the "stone hurst man, man wears
hide, stone dont hurt no more so now we use arrows, arrows go thru hide
dang lets try this chain mail stuff, arrows dont go thru chain mail so now
we try crafting long spears with chain ripping heads, hey there buddy try
that against my plate mail, well F you and the horse you plated try doging
a bullets, holy shit where is my kevlar, does you kevlar stop nukes..."
game.

In this mad mad mad mad james burkian cum chucky darwin world there is no
rest for either the wicked or the nonwicked, there is just the ramp up to
the Brand New Jimmiez.

the trick I think should all be learning is not so much looking for the
THE KILLER APP but instead to look for the "really cool app that mutates
to meet changes"

Bascialy give china no choise but to shoot its own head off to stop the
music.

bang bang ... have a nice day.

-tom



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0813.9c59b6b0d4e221ca29d576cd2f170f06.eml000066400000000000000000000060201444326627400311710ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 24 10:49:27 2002
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On Monday, September 23, 2002, at 03:25 PM, R. A. Hettinga wrote:

>          Green = Red.

		Capitalist = Nazi.

		Information content of the above statements === 0.

Meanwhile, the angels of light (tm) are having a great knock-down 
drag-out with the eldrich kings of .NET on XML-DEV.

-- whump


----
Bill Humphries 
http://www.whump.com/moreLikeThis/


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0814.1d2d3dedc0e3e216225f4af0e9323fb5.eml000066400000000000000000000050371444326627400313240ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 24 10:49:29 2002
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Mr. FoRK:
>Of the three lying politicians, which liar would you take?

No, no. The riddle is, asking only one question, how
do you determine which is which? "If I were to ask
you whether he would say you were a crook, or if the
other had sex ..?"





_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


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On Monday, September 23, 2002, at 06:51 PM, Tom wrote:

> Bascialy give china no choise but to shoot its own head off to stop the
> music.

Or we could have the audacity to tell them to shape up or get cut out 
of the global marbles game. Unfortunately that model only seems to 
apply to despots with oil and WMDs, rather than despots with WMDs.

-- whump


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0816.b3fb75007d4e83784b06dc8202028bbf.eml000066400000000000000000000072531444326627400311210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 24 10:49:32 2002
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funny. i read it as green = red, as in accounting, as in fiscally
irresponsible.  which do you think is the worse indictment - overregulation
or overspending?  there are many (dickheads) who buy into the
neo-conservative media's (fox's) definiton of "liberal" as "one who seeks to
impose both."

hannity and glove.

best quote, wish i could remember who said it: "we tend to describe our own
party by its ideals and our opponents' party by its reality."

geege

-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of Bill
Humphries
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 10:00 PM
To: fork@example.com
Subject: Re: Goodbye Global Warming


On Monday, September 23, 2002, at 03:25 PM, R. A. Hettinga wrote:

>          Green = Red.

		Capitalist = Nazi.

		Information content of the above statements === 0.

Meanwhile, the angels of light (tm) are having a great knock-down
drag-out with the eldrich kings of .NET on XML-DEV.

-- whump


----
Bill Humphries 
http://www.whump.com/moreLikeThis/






golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0817.bcee0d97a59953c5e6086df74d4ed665.eml000066400000000000000000000057321444326627400313230ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 24 10:49:33 2002
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At 5:29 PM -0700 on 9/23/02, John Hall wrote:


> Rawls claims Merit doesn't exist.

Nozick claims that Rawls doesn't exist.

God says that Nozick is dead?

:-).

Cheers,
RAH
Quine, of course, read the Herald, not the Globe. With him and Nozick went
political "diversity" at Hahvahd...
-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0818.c7f83ef6692e7bcec3fc31d04880f51f.eml000066400000000000000000000060741444326627400313710ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 24 10:49:35 2002
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At 7:44 PM -0400 on 9/23/02, Geege Schuman wrote:


> First, misattribution.

My apologies. Rave on...

Cheers,
RAH
"Where all the children are above average..."
-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0819.337934ad4a28fb473915e323d3866edc.eml000066400000000000000000000074011444326627400310570ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 24 10:49:36 2002
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Depends on how much over spending vs. how much (and what type) over
regulation.

The biggest problem with over regulation is the costs can be invisible.
It also has the ability to single out particular people, while over
spending spreads the damage more evenly.  Rent control would be an
example of a regulation solution that is in general worse than spending
tons of money on public housing.

As for the definition of a liberal being someone who seeks to impose
both, I find no fault in that definition whatsoever.  The opinion that
EITHER we are spending too much OR we have too much regulation is pretty
much anathema to liberal politics.

Finally, those who argue that there are private replacements for much
government regulation are not saying that a state of nature (no private
replacements, no government regulation) is better than government
regulation itself.

And in my experience people who label themselves 'Green' (which does not
include everyone who loves trees and thinks smokestacks are ugly) is a
watermelon.




> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
Geege
> Schuman
> 
> funny. i read it as green = red, as in accounting, as in fiscally
> irresponsible.  which do you think is the worse indictment -
> overregulation
> or overspending?  there are many (dickheads) who buy into the
> neo-conservative media's (fox's) definiton of "liberal" as "one who
seeks
> to
> impose both."


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0820.28def4e42460f6194152556fb05f915d.eml000066400000000000000000000050741444326627400307730ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 24 10:49:40 2002
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It's only 64kbps, but http://noise.ktru.org/ can be tasty.  Presently 
playing Fille Qui Mousse, Collage in Progress, and other happy nibbles.
Sounds a bit like The Avalanches, but that will change soon.

Cheers,
Wayne


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per john hall:
"The opinion that EITHER we are spending too much OR we have too much
regulation is pretty
much anathema to liberal politics."

no it's not.

geege





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from slate's "today's papers":  
The New York Times and Los Angeles Times both lead with word that
a federal judge ruled yesterday that the nation's largest
national gas pipeline company, El Paso, illegally withheld gas
from the market during California's energy squeeze in 2000-01.
The judge concluded that El Paso left 21 percent of its capacity
in the state off-line, thus driving up the price of gas and
helping to induce rolling blackouts. 

and this is the product of overregulation?

-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of John
Hall
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 11:57 PM
To: FoRK
Subject: liberal defnitions


Depends on how much over spending vs. how much (and what type) over
regulation.

The biggest problem with over regulation is the costs can be invisible.
It also has the ability to single out particular people, while over
spending spreads the damage more evenly.  Rent control would be an
example of a regulation solution that is in general worse than spending
tons of money on public housing.

As for the definition of a liberal being someone who seeks to impose
both, I find no fault in that definition whatsoever.  The opinion that
EITHER we are spending too much OR we have too much regulation is pretty
much anathema to liberal politics.

Finally, those who argue that there are private replacements for much
government regulation are not saying that a state of nature (no private
replacements, no government regulation) is better than government
regulation itself.

And in my experience people who label themselves 'Green' (which does not
include everyone who loves trees and thinks smokestacks are ugly) is a
watermelon.




> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
Geege
> Schuman
> 
> funny. i read it as green = red, as in accounting, as in fiscally
> irresponsible.  which do you think is the worse indictment -
> overregulation
> or overspending?  there are many (dickheads) who buy into the
> neo-conservative media's (fox's) definiton of "liberal" as "one who
seeks
> to
> impose both."






golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0823.3df96732430857f696c452a05d7cee94.eml000066400000000000000000000045171444326627400310140ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 24 15:52:27 2002
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In a message dated 9/23/2002 6:30:31 PM, khare@alumni.caltech.edu writes:

> why you're writing with a double of scotch :-)

because, obviously, after the inevitable second double, you won't remember 
anything you say unless you write it down :-)

Tom


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On Tue, 24 Sep 2002 ThosStew@aol.com wrote:

--]Klez, most likely. It'll pick up your address and send mail to all your
--]friends, and your strangers, as if coming from you. Nice way to lose friends
--]and meet strangers. Better than typing gibberish (or Hemingway, but I repeat
--]myself) in a bar with a double of scotch.


Friends dont let friends use Outlook....even after a douly shot of the
scotch with a chaser.

All hands on the stinky one.

-tom(the other tommeat)



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This was just *too* funny.. rotflma.

http://www.ozyandmillie.org/comics/om20020924.gif
-- 
#ken	P-)}

Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini  http://Golux.Com/coar/
Author, developer, opinionist      http://Apache-Server.Com/

"Millennium hand and shrimp!"


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http://newyorker.com/fact/content/?020401fa_FACT1

The New Yorker

THE NEXT WORLD ORDER
by NICHOLAS LEMANN
The Bush Administration may have a brand-new doctrine of power.
Issue of 2002-04-01
Posted 2002-03-25

When there is a change of command-and not just in government-the new people
often persuade themselves that the old people were much worse than anyone
suspected. This feeling seems especially intense in the Bush
Administration, perhaps because Bill Clinton has been bracketed by a
father-son team. It's easy for people in the Administration to believe
that, after an unfortunate eight-year interlude, the Bush family has
resumed its governance-and about time, too.

The Bush Administration's sense that the Clinton years were a waste, or
worse, is strongest in the realms of foreign policy and military affairs.
Republicans tend to regard Democrats as untrustworthy in defense and
foreign policy, anyway, in ways that coincide with what people think of as
Clinton's weak points: an eagerness to please, a lack of discipline.
Condoleezza Rice, Bush's national-security adviser, wrote an article in
Foreign Affairs two years ago in which she contemptuously accused Clinton
of "an extraordinary neglect of the fiduciary responsibilities of the
commander in chief." Most of the top figures in foreign affairs in this
Administration also served under the President's father. They took office
last year, after what they regard as eight years of small-time flyswatting
by Clinton, thinking that they were picking up where they'd left off.

Not long ago, I had lunch with-sorry!-a senior Administration
foreign-policy official, at a restaurant in Washington called the Oval
Room. Early in the lunch, he handed me a twenty-seven- page report, whose
cover bore the seal of the Department of Defense, an outline map of the
world, and these words:

Defense Strategy for the 1990s:
The Regional Defense Strategy
Secretary of Defense
Dick Cheney
January 1993

One of the difficulties of working at the highest level of government is
communicating its drama. Actors, professional athletes, and even elected
politicians train for years, go through a great winnowing, and then perform
publicly. People who have titles like Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
are just as ambitious and competitive, have worked just as long and hard,
and are often playing for even higher stakes-but what they do all day is go
to meetings and write memos and prepare briefings. How, possibly, to
explain that some of the documents, including the report that the senior
official handed me, which was physically indistinguishable from a
high-school term paper, represent the government version of playing
Carnegie Hall?

After the fall of the Berlin Wall, Dick Cheney, then the Secretary of
Defense, set up a "shop," as they say, to think about American foreign
policy after the Cold War, at the grand strategic level. The project, whose
existence was kept quiet, included people who are now back in the game, at
a higher level: among them, Paul Wolfowitz, the Deputy Secretary of
Defense; Lewis Libby, Cheney's chief of staff; and Eric Edelman, a senior
foreign-policy adviser to Cheney-generally speaking, a cohesive group of
conservatives who regard themselves as bigger-thinking, tougher-minded, and
intellectually bolder than most other people in Washington. (Donald
Rumsfeld, the Secretary of Defense, shares these characteristics, and has
been closely associated with Cheney for more than thirty years.) Colin
Powell, then the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, mounted a
competing, and presumably more ideologically moderate, effort to reimagine
American foreign policy and defense. A date was set-May 21, 1990-on which
each team would brief Cheney for an hour; Cheney would then brief President
Bush, after which Bush would make a foreign-policy address unveiling the
new grand strategy.

Everybody worked for months on the "five-twenty-one brief," with a sense
that the shape of the post-Cold War world was at stake. When Wolfowitz and
Powell arrived at Cheney's office on May 21st, Wolfowitz went first, but
his briefing lasted far beyond the allotted hour, and Cheney (a hawk who,
perhaps, liked what he was hearing) did not call time on him. Powell didn't
get to present his alternate version of the future of the United States in
the world until a couple of weeks later. Cheney briefed President Bush,
using material mostly from Wolfowitz, and Bush prepared his major
foreign-policy address. But he delivered it on August 2, 1990, the day that
Iraq invaded Kuwait, so nobody noticed.

The team kept working. In 1992, the Times got its hands on a version of the
material, and published a front-page story saying that the Pentagon
envisioned a future in which the United States could, and should, prevent
any other nation or alliance from becoming a great power. A few weeks of
controversy ensued about the Bush Administration's hawks being
"unilateral"-controversy that Cheney's people put an end to with denials
and the counter-leak of an edited, softer version of the same material.

As it became apparent that Bush was going to lose to Clinton, the Cheney
team's efforts took on the quality of a parting shot. The report that the
senior official handed me at lunch had been issued only a few days before
Clinton took office. It is a somewhat bland, opaque document-a "scrubbed,"
meaning unclassified, version of something more candid-but it contained the
essential ideas of "shaping," rather than reacting to, the rest of the
world, and of preventing the rise of other superpowers. Its tone is one of
skepticism about diplomatic partnerships. A more forthright version of the
same ideas can be found in a short book titled "From Containment to Global
Leadership?," which Zalmay Khalilzad, who joined Cheney's team in 1991 and
is now special envoy to Afghanistan, published a couple of years into the
Clinton Administration, when he was out of government. It recommends that
the United States "preclude the rise of another global rival for the
indefinite future." Khalilzad writes, "It is a vital U.S. interest to
preclude such a development-i.e., to be willing to use force if necessary
for the purpose."

When George W. Bush was campaigning for President, he and the people around
him didn't seem to be proposing a great doctrinal shift, along the lines of
the policy of containment of the Soviet Union's sphere of influence which
the United States maintained during the Cold War. In his first major
foreign-policy speech, delivered in November of 1999, Bush declared that "a
President must be a clear-eyed realist," a formulation that seems to
connote an absence of world-remaking ambition. "Realism" is exactly the
foreign-policy doctrine that Cheney's Pentagon team rejected, partly
because it posits the impossibility of any one country's ever dominating
world affairs for any length of time.

One gets many reminders in Washington these days of how much the terrorist
attacks of September 11th have changed official foreign-policy thinking.
Any chief executive, of either party, would probably have done what Bush
has done so far-made war on the Taliban and Al Qaeda and enhanced domestic
security. It is only now, six months after the attacks, that we are truly
entering the realm of Presidential choice, and all indications are that
Bush is going to use September 11th as the occasion to launch a new,
aggressive American foreign policy that would represent a broad change in
direction rather than a specific war on terrorism. All his rhetoric,
especially in the two addresses he has given to joint sessions of Congress
since September 11th, and all the information about his state of mind which
his aides have leaked, indicate that he sees this as the nation's moment of
destiny-a perception that the people around him seem to be encouraging,
because it enhances Bush's stature and opens the way to more assertive
policymaking.

Inside government, the reason September 11th appears to have been "a
transformative moment," as the senior official I had lunch with put it, is
not so much that it revealed the existence of a threat of which officials
had previously been unaware as that it drastically reduced the American
public's usual resistance to American military involvement overseas, at
least for a while. The Clinton Administration, beginning with the "Black
Hawk Down" operation in Mogadishu, during its first year, operated on the
conviction that Americans were highly averse to casualties; the all-bombing
Kosovo operation, in Clinton's next-to-last year, was the ideal foreign
military adventure. Now that the United States has been attacked, the
options are much broader. The senior official approvingly mentioned a 1999
study of casualty aversion by the Triangle Institute for Security Studies,
which argued that the "mass public" is much less casualty-averse than the
military or the civilian �lite believes; for example, the study showed that
the public would tolerate thirty thousand deaths in a military operation to
prevent Iraq from acquiring weapons of mass destruction. (The American
death total in the Vietnam War was about fifty-eight thousand.) September
11th presumably reduced casualty aversion even further.

Recently, I went to the White House to interview Condoleezza Rice. Rice's
Foreign Affairs article from 2000 begins with this declaration: "The United
States has found it exceedingly difficult to define its 'national interest'
in the absence of Soviet power." I asked her whether that is still the
case. "I think the difficulty has passed in defining a role," she said
immediately. "I think September 11th was one of those great earthquakes
that clarify and sharpen. Events are in much sharper relief." Like Bush,
she said that opposing terrorism and preventing the accumulation of weapons
of mass destruction "in the hands of irresponsible states" now define the
national interest. (The latter goal, by the way, is new-in Bush's speech to
Congress on September 20th, America's sole grand purpose was ending
terrorism.) We talked in her West Wing office; its tall windows face the
part of the White House grounds where television reporters do their
standups. In her bearing, Rice seemed less crisply military than she does
in public. She looked a little tired, but she was projecting a kind of
missionary calm, rather than belligerence.

In the Foreign Affairs article, Rice came across as a classic realist,
putting forth "the notions of power politics, great powers, and power
balances" as the proper central concerns of the United States. Now she
sounded as if she had moved closer to the one-power idea that Cheney's
Pentagon team proposed ten years ago-or, at least, to the idea that the
other great powers are now in harmony with the United States, because of
the terrorist attacks, and can be induced to remain so. "Theoretically, the
realists would predict that when you have a great power like the United
States it would not be long before you had other great powers rising to
challenge it or trying to balance against it," Rice said. "And I think what
you're seeing is that there's at least a predilection this time to move to
productive and co�perative relations with the United States, rather than to
try to balance the United States. I actually think that statecraft matters
in how it all comes out. It's not all foreordained."

Rice said that she had called together the senior staff people of the
National Security Council and asked them to think seriously about "how do
you capitalize on these opportunities" to fundamentally change American
doctrine, and the shape of the world, in the wake of September 11th. "I
really think this period is analogous to 1945 to 1947," she said-that is,
the period when the containment doctrine took shape-"in that the events so
clearly demonstrated that there is a big global threat, and that it's a big
global threat to a lot of countries that you would not have normally
thought of as being in the coalition. That has started shifting the
tectonic plates in international politics. And it's important to try to
seize on that and position American interests and institutions and all of
that before they harden again."

The National Security Council is legally required to produce an annual
document called the National Security Strategy, stating the over-all goals
of American policy-another government report whose importance is great but
not obvious. The Bush Administration did not produce one last year, as the
Clinton Administration did not in its first year. Rice said that she is
working on the report now.

"There are two ways to handle this document," she told me. "One is to do it
in a kind of minimalist way and just get it out. But it's our view that,
since this is going to be the first one for the Bush Administration, it's
important. An awful lot has happened since we started this process, prior
to 9/11. I can't give you a certain date when it's going to be out, but I
would think sometime this spring. And it's important that it be a real
statement of what the Bush Administration sees as the strategic direction
that it's going."

It seems clear already that Rice will set forth the hope of a more dominant
American role in the world than she might have a couple of years ago. Some
questions that don't appear to be settled yet, but are obviously being
asked, are how much the United States is willing to operate alone in
foreign affairs, and how much change it is willing to try to engender
inside other countries-and to what end, and with what means. The leak a
couple of weeks ago of a new American nuclear posture, adding offensive
capability against "rogue states," departed from decades of official
adherence to a purely defensive position, and was just one indication of
the scope of the reconsideration that is going on. Is the United States now
in a position to be redrawing regional maps, especially in the Middle East,
and replacing governments by force? Nobody thought that the Bush
Administration would be thinking in such ambitious terms, but plainly it
is, and with the internal debate to the right of where it was only a few
months ago.

Just before the 2000 election, a Republican foreign-policy figure suggested
to me that a good indication of a Bush Administration's direction in
foreign affairs would be who got a higher-ranking job, Paul Wolfowitz or
Richard Haass. Haass is another veteran of the first Bush Administration,
and an intellectual like Wolfowitz, but much more moderate. In 1997, he
published a book titled "The Reluctant Sheriff," in which he poked a little
fun at Wolfowitz's famous strategy briefing of the early nineties (he
called it the "Pentagon Paper") and disagreed with its idea that the United
States should try to be the world's only great power over the long term.
"For better or worse, such a goal is beyond our reach," Haass wrote. "It
simply is not doable." Elsewhere in the book, he disagreed with another of
the Wolfowitz team's main ideas, that of the United States expanding the
"democratic zone of peace": "Primacy is not to be confused with hegemony.
The United States cannot compel others to become more democratic." Haass
argued that the United States is becoming less dominant in the world, not
more, and suggested "a revival of what might be called traditional
great-power politics."

Wolfowitz got a higher-ranking job than Haass: he is Deputy Secretary of
Defense, and Haass is Director of Policy Planning for the State Department-
in effect, Colin Powell's big-think guy. Recently, I went to see him in his
office at the State Department. On the wall of his waiting room was an
array of photographs of every past director of the policy-planning staff,
beginning with George Kennan, the father of the containment doctrine and
the first holder of the office that Haass now occupies.

It's another indication of the way things are moving in Washington that
Haass seems to have become more hawkish. I mentioned the title of his book.
"Using the word 'reluctant' was itself reflective of a period when foreign
policy seemed secondary, and sacrificing for foreign policy was a hard case
to make," he said. "It was written when Bill Clinton was saying, 'It's the
economy, stupid'-not 'It's the world, stupid.' Two things are very
different now. One, the President has a much easier time making the case
that foreign policy matters. Second, at the top of the national-security
charts is this notion of weapons of mass destruction and terrorism."

I asked Haass whether there is a doctrine emerging that is as broad as
Kennan's containment. "I think there is," he said. "What you're seeing from
this Administration is the emergence of a new principle or body of
ideas-I'm not sure it constitutes a doctrine-about what you might call the
limits of sovereignty. Sovereignty entails obligations. One is not to
massacre your own people. Another is not to support terrorism in any way.
If a government fails to meet these obligations, then it forfeits some of
the normal advantages of sovereignty, including the right to be left alone
inside your own territory. Other governments, including the United States,
gain the right to intervene. In the case of terrorism, this can even lead
to a right of preventive, or peremptory, self-defense. You essentially can
act in anticipation if you have grounds to think it's a question of when,
and not if, you're going to be attacked."

Clearly, Haass was thinking of Iraq. "I don't think the American public
needs a lot of persuading about the evil that is Saddam Hussein," he said.
"Also, I'd fully expect the President and his chief lieutenants to make the
case. Public opinion can be changed. We'd be able to make the case that
this isn't a discretionary action but one done in self-defense."

On the larger issue of the American role in the world, Haass was still
maintaining some distance from the hawks. He had made a speech not long
before called "Imperial America," but he told me that there is a big
difference between imperial and imperialist. "I just think that we have to
be a little bit careful," he said. "Great as our advantages are, there are
still limits. We have to have allies. We can't impose our ideas on
everyone. We don't want to be fighting wars alone, so we need others to
join us. American leadership, yes; but not American unilateralism. It has
to be multilateral. We can't win the war against terror alone. We can't
send forces everywhere. It really does have to be a collaborative endeavor."

He stopped for a moment. "Is there a successor idea to containment? I think
there is," he said. "It is the idea of integration. The goal of U.S.
foreign policy should be to persuade the other major powers to sign on to
certain key ideas as to how the world should operate: opposition to
terrorism and weapons of mass destruction, support for free trade,
democracy, markets. Integration is about locking them into these policies
and then building institutions that lock them in even more."

The first, but by no means the last, obvious manifestation of a new
American foreign policy will be the effort to remove Saddam Hussein. What
the United States does in an Iraq operation will very likely dwarf what's
been done so far in Afghanistan, both in terms of the scale of the
operation itself and in terms of its aftermath.

Several weeks ago, Ahmad Chalabi, the head of the Iraqi National Congress,
the Iraqi opposition party, came through Washington with an entourage of
his aides. Chalabi went to the State Department and the White House to ask,
evidently successfully, for more American funding. His main public event
was a panel discussion at the American Enterprise Institute. Chalabi's
leading supporter in town, Richard Perle, the prominent hawk and former
Defense Department official, acted as moderator. Smiling and supremely
confident, Perle opened the discussion by saying, "Evidence is mounting
that the Administration is looking very carefully at strategies for dealing
with Saddam Hussein." The war on terrorism, he said, will not be complete
"until Saddam is successfully dealt with. And that means replacing his
regime. . . . That action will be taken, I have no doubt."

Chalabi, who lives in London, is a charming, suave middle-aged man with a
twinkle in his eye. He was dressed in a double-breasted pin-striped suit
and a striped shirt with a white spread collar. Although he and his
supporters argue that the Iraqi National Congress, with sufficient American
support, can defeat Saddam just as the Northern Alliance defeated the
Taliban in Afghanistan, this view hasn't won over most people in
Washington. It isn't just that Chalabi doesn't look the part of a rebel
military leader ("He could fight you for the last petit four on the tray
over tea at the Savoy, but that's about it," one skeptical former Pentagon
official told me), or that he isn't in Iraq. It's also that Saddam's
military is perhaps ten times the size that the Taliban's was, and has been
quite successful at putting down revolts over the last decade. The United
States left Iraq in 1991 believing that Saddam might soon fall to an
internal rebellion; Chalabi's supporters believe that Saddam is much weaker
now, and that even signs that a serious operation was in the offing could
finish him off. But non-true believers seem to be coming around to the idea
that a military operation against Saddam would mean the deployment of
anywhere from a hundred thousand to three hundred thousand American ground
troops.

Kenneth Pollack, a former C.I.A. analyst who was the National Security
Council's staff expert on Iraq during the last years of the Clinton
Administration, recently caused a stir in the foreign-policy world by
publishing an article in Foreign Affairs calling for war against Saddam.
This was noteworthy because three years ago Pollack and two co-authors
published an article, also in Foreign Affairs, arguing that the Iraqi
National Congress was incapable of defeating Saddam. Pollack still doesn't
think Chalabi can do the job. He believes that it would require a
substantial American ground, air, and sea force, closer in size to the one
we used in Kuwait in 1990-91 than to the one we are using now in
Afghanistan.

Pollack, who is trim, quick, and crisp, is obviously a man who has given a
briefing or two in his day. When I went to see him at his office in
Washington, with a little encouragement he got out from behind his desk and
walked over to his office wall, where three maps of the Middle East were
hanging. "The only way to do it is a full-scale invasion," he said, using a
pen as a pointer. "We're talking about two grand corps, two to three
hundred thousand people altogether. The population is here, in the
Tigris-Euphrates valley." He pointed to the area between Baghdad and Basra.
"Ideally, you'd have the Saudis on board." He pointed to the Prince Sultan
airbase, near Riyadh. "You could make Kuwait the base, but it's much easier
in Saudi. You need to take western Iraq and southern Iraq"-pointing
again-"because otherwise they'll fire Scuds at Israel and at the Saudi oil
fields. You probably want to prevent Iraq from blowing up its own oil
fields, so troops have to occupy them. And you need troops to defend the
Kurds in northern Iraq." Point, point. "You go in as hard as you can, as
fast as you can." He slapped his hand on the top of his desk. "You get the
enemy to divide his forces, by threatening him in two places at once." His
hand hit the desk again, hard. "Then you crush him." Smack.

That would be a reverberating blow. The United States has already removed
the government of one country, Afghanistan, the new government is obviously
shaky, and American military operations there are not completed. Pakistan,
which before September 11th clearly met the new test of national
unacceptability (it both harbors terrorists and has weapons of mass
destruction), will also require long-term attention, since the country is
not wholly under the control of the government, as the murder of Daniel
Pearl demonstrated, and even parts of the government, like the intelligence
service, may not be entirely under the control of the President. In Iraq,
if America invades and brings down Saddam, a new government must be
established-an enormous long-term task in a country where there is no
obvious, plausible new leader. The prospective Iraq operation has drawn
strong objections from the neighboring nations, one of which, Russia, is a
nuclear superpower. An invasion would have a huge effect on the internal
affairs of all the biggest Middle Eastern nations: Iran, Turkey, Saudi
Arabia, and even Egypt. Events have forced the Administration to become
directly involved in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, as it hadn't wanted
to do. So it's really the entire region that is in play, in much the way
that Europe was immediately after the Second World War.

In September, Bush rejected Paul Wolfowitz's recommendation of immediate
moves against Iraq. That the President seems to have changed his mind is an
indication, in part, of the bureaucratic skill of the Administration's
conservatives. "These guys are relentless," one former official, who is
close to the high command at the State Department, told me. "Resistance is
futile." The conservatives' other weapon, besides relentlessness, is
intellectualism. Colin Powell tends to think case by case, and since
September 11th the conservatives have outflanked him by producing at least
the beginning of a coherent, hawkish world view whose acceptance
practically requires invading Iraq. If the United States applies the
doctrines of Cheney's old Pentagon team, "shaping" and expanding "the zone
of democracy," the implications would extend far beyond that one operation.

The outside experts on the Middle East who have the most credibility with
the Administration seem to be Bernard Lewis, of Princeton, and Fouad Ajami,
of the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, both of whom
see the Arab Middle East as a region in need of radical remediation. Lewis
was invited to the White House in December to brief the senior
foreign-policy staff. "One point he made is, Look, in that part of the
world, nothing matters more than resolute will and force," the senior
official I had lunch with told me-in other words, the United States needn't
proceed gingerly for fear of inflaming the "Arab street," as long as it is
prepared to be strong. The senior official also recommended as interesting
thinkers on the Middle East Charles Hill, of Yale, who in a recent essay
declared, "Every regime of the Arab-Islamic world has proved a failure,"
and Reuel Marc Gerecht, of the American Enterprise Institute, who published
an article in The Weekly Standard about the need for a change of regime in
Iran and Syria. (Those goals, Gerecht told me when we spoke, could be
accomplished through pressure short of an invasion.)

Several people I spoke with predicted that most, or even all, of the
nations that loudly oppose an invasion of Iraq would privately cheer it on,
if they felt certain that this time the Americans were really going to
finish the job. One purpose of Vice-President Cheney's recent diplomatic
tour of the region was to offer assurances on that matter, while gamely
absorbing all the public criticism of an Iraq operation. In any event, the
Administration appears to be committed to acting forcefully in advance of
the world's approval. When I spoke to Condoleezza Rice, she said that the
United States should assemble "coalitions of the willing" to support its
actions, rather than feel it has to work within the existing infrastructure
of international treaties and organizations. An invasion of Iraq would test
that policy in more ways than one: the Administration would be betting that
it can continue to eliminate Al Qaeda cells in countries that publicly
opposed the Iraq operation.

When the Administration submitted its budget earlier this year, it asked
for a forty-eight-billion-dollar increase in defense spending for fiscal
2003, which begins in October, 2002. Much of that sum would go to improve
military pay and benefits, but ten billion dollars of it is designated as
an unspecified contingency fund for further operations in the war on
terrorism. That's probably at least the initial funding for an invasion of
Iraq.

This spring, the Administration will be talking to other countries about
the invasion, trying to secure basing and overflight privileges, while Bush
builds up a rhetorical case for it by giving speeches about the
unacceptability of developing weapons of mass destruction. A drama
involving weapons inspections in Iraq will play itself out over the spring
and summer, and will end with the United States declaring that the terms
that Saddam offers for the inspections, involving delays and restrictions,
are unacceptable. Then, probably in the late summer or early fall, the
enormous troop positioning, which will take months, will begin. The
Administration obviously feels confident that the United States can
effectively parry whatever aggressive actions Saddam takes during the troop
buildup, and hopes that its moves will destabilize Iraq enough to cause the
Republican Guard, the military key to the country, to turn against Saddam
and topple him on its own. But the chain of events leading inexorably to a
full-scale American invasion, if it hasn't already begun, evidently will
begin soon.

Lewis (Scooter) Libby, who was the principal drafter of Cheney's
future-of-the-world documents during the first Bush Administration, now
works in an office in the Old Executive Office Building, overlooking the
West Wing, where he has a second, smaller office. A packet of
public-relations material prompted by the recent paperback publication of
his 1996 novel, "The Apprentice," quotes the Times' calling him "Dick
Cheney's Dick Cheney," which seems like an apt description: he appears
absolutely sure of himself, and, whether by coincidence or as a result of
the influence of his boss, speaks in a tough, confidential, gravelly
rumble. Like Condoleezza Rice and Bush himself, he gives the impression of
having calmly accepted the idea that the project of war and reconstruction
which the Administration has now taken on may be a little exhausting for
those charged with carrying it out but is unquestionably right, the only
truly prudent course.

When I went to see Libby, not long ago, I asked him whether, before
September 11th, American policy toward terrorism should have been
different. He went to his desk and got out a large black loose-leaf binder,
filled with typewritten sheets interspersed with foldout maps of the Middle
East. He looked through it for a long minute, formulating his answer.

"Let us stack it up," he said at last. "Somalia, 1993; 1994, the discovery
of the Al Qaeda-related plot in the Philippines; 1993, the World Trade
Center, first bombing; 1993, the attempt to assassinate President Bush,
former President Bush, and the lack of response to that, the lack of a
serious response to that; 1995, the Riyadh bombing; 1996, the Khobar
bombing; 1998, the Kenyan embassy bombing and the Tanzanian embassy
bombing; 1999, the plot to launch millennium attacks; 2000, the bombing of
the Cole. Throughout this period, infractions on inspections by the Iraqis,
and eventually the withdrawal of the entire inspection regime; and the
failure to respond significantly to Iraqi incursions in the Kurdish areas.
No one would say these challenges posed easy problems, but if you take that
long list and you ask, 'Did we respond in a way which discouraged people
from supporting terrorist activities, or activities clearly against our
interests? Did we help to shape the environment in a way which discouraged
further aggressions against U.S. interests?,' many observers conclude no,
and ask whether it was then easier for someone like Osama bin Laden to rise
up and say credibly, 'The Americans don't have the stomach to defend
themselves. They won't take casualties to defend their interests. They are
morally weak.' "

Libby insisted that the American response to September 11th has not been
standard or foreordained. "Look at what the President has done in
Afghanistan," he said, "and look at his speech to the joint session of
Congress"-meaning the State of the Union Message, in January. "He made it
clear that it's an important area. He made it clear that we believe in
expanding the zone of democracy even in this difficult part of the world.
He made it clear that we stand by our friends and defend our interests. And
he had the courage to identify those states which present a problem, and to
begin to build consensus for action that would need to be taken if there is
not a change of behavior on their part. Take the Afghan case, for example.
There are many other courses that the President could have taken. He could
have waited for juridical proof before we responded. He could have engaged
in long negotiations with the Taliban. He could have failed to seek a new
relationship with Pakistan, based on its past nuclear tests, or been so
afraid of weakening Pakistan that we didn't seek its help. This list could
go on to twice or three times the length I've mentioned so far. But,
instead, the President saw an opportunity to refashion relations while
standing up for our interests. The problem is complex, and we don't know
yet how it will end, but we have opened new prospects for relations not
only with Afghanistan, as important as it was as a threat, but with the
states of Central Asia, Pakistan, Russia, and, as it may develop, with the
states of Southwest Asia more generally."

We moved on to Iraq, and the question of what makes Saddam Hussein
unacceptable, in the Administration's eyes. "The issue is not inspections,"
Libby said. "The issue is the Iraqis' promise not to have weapons of mass
destruction, their promise to recognize the boundaries of Kuwait, their
promise not to threaten other countries, and other promises that they made
in '91, and a number of U.N. resolutions, including all the other problems
I listed. Whether it was wise or not-and that is the subject of debate-Iraq
was given a second chance to abide by international norms. It failed to
take that chance then, and annually for the next ten years."

"What's your level of confidence," I asked him, "that the current regime
will, in fact, change its behavior in a way that you will be satisfied by?"

He ran his hand over his face and then gave me a direct gaze and spoke
slowly and deliberately. "There is no basis in Iraq's past behavior to have
confidence in good-faith efforts on their part to change their behavior."

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


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This situation wouldn't have happened in the first place if California
didn't have economically insane regulations.  They created a regulatory
climate that facilitated this.  So yes, it is the product of
over-regulation.


-James Rogers
 jamesr@best.com


On Tue, 2002-09-24 at 05:17, Geege Schuman wrote:
> from slate's "today's papers":  
> The New York Times and Los Angeles Times both lead with word that
> a federal judge ruled yesterday that the nation's largest
> national gas pipeline company, El Paso, illegally withheld gas
> from the market during California's energy squeeze in 2000-01.
> The judge concluded that El Paso left 21 percent of its capacity
> in the state off-line, thus driving up the price of gas and
> helping to induce rolling blackouts. 
> 
> and this is the product of overregulation?





golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0828.244d3a6c6cef70fc0025906b05b069ac.eml000066400000000000000000000077561444326627400312030ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 24 17:55:27 2002
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From: Eugen Leitl 
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Subject: Re: [s-t] Scoot boss's wife orders hit.
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 09:52:44 -0700
From: mis@seiden.com
Subject: Re: [s-t] Scoot boss's wife orders hit.


the "independent", a shopper's newspaper in the sf bay area, (the
operational definition of that media category is "no matter how hard
you try you can't get them to stop delivering it") had this story on
aug 24, 2002:

"Dot-com downturn linked to domestic violence"

Domestic-violence worker Kathy Black remembers watching the Nasdaq 
take a nastydive on MSNBC, in March 2000.

"I knew then that we would have a lot of work on our hands," Black said,
referring to the caseload at La Casa de las Madres, the city's largest
organization serving women and children affected by domestic violence.

She was right.

Calls to La Casa's crisis line increased by 33% in the last financial
year, and the service saw a 10 percent increase in the demand for
beds, with 232 women and 215 children utilizing the shelter service.
...

Black said the dot-com collapse and a growing awareness of La Casa's
services were the two main reasons for the increase in calls.

She said many of her clients had partners who were employed in
service-industry jobs utilized by dot-com workers   
...



On Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 04:23:17PM +0100, Gordon Joly wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/low/england/2276467.stm
> 
> 
> Woman admits trying to hire hitman
> 
> The former wife of an internet tycoon has admitted trying to hire a 
> hitman to kill him after the breakdown of their 21-year marriage.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Linux User No. 256022///
> http://pobox.com/~gordo/
> gordon.joly@pobox.com///



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0829.8d4c26619530e36bfb855f5afb08876c.eml000066400000000000000000000054311444326627400311500ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 24 17:55:28 2002
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Yes, it is.  You just want to be called a liberal when you really
aren't.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geege Schuman [mailto:geege@barrera.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 5:12 AM
> To: johnhall@evergo.net; FoRK
> Subject: RE: liberal defnitions
> 
> per john hall:
> "The opinion that EITHER we are spending too much OR we have too much
> regulation is pretty
> much anathema to liberal politics."
> 
> no it's not.
> 
> geege
> 
> 



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0830.36efbaa51125bf5c1697fd795b3a26a2.eml000066400000000000000000000065641444326627400312640ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 24 17:55:30 2002
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In a message dated 9/24/2002 11:24:58 AM, jamesr@best.com writes:

>This situation wouldn't have happened in the first place if California
>didn't have economically insane regulations.  They created a regulatory
>climate that facilitated this.  So yes, it is the product of
>over-regulation.
>

Which is to say, if you reduce the argument to absurdity, that law causes 
crime. 

(Yes, I agree that badly written law can make life so frustrating that people 
have little choice but to subvery it if they want to get anything done. This 
is also true of corporate policies, and all other attempts to regulate 
conduct by rules. Rules just don't work well when situations are fluid or 
ambiguous. But I don't think that the misbehavior of energy companies in 
California can properly be called well-intentioned lawbreaking by parties who 
were trying to do the right thing but could do so only by falling afoul of 
some technicality.)

If you want to get to root causes, we should probably go to the slaying of 
Abel by Cain. Perhaps we can figure out what went wrong then, and roll our 
learning forward through history and create a FoRKtopia.

Nonpartisanly, which is to say casting stones on all houses, whether 
bicameral or unicameral, built on sand or on rock, to the left of them or to 
the right of them, of glass or brick or twig or straw, 

Tom


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Subject: CO2 and climate (was RE: Goodbye Global Warming)
From: James Rogers 
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On Mon, 2002-09-23 at 13:53, Jim Whitehead wrote:
> 
> You have not explained why the increase in CO2 concentrations is not
> contributing to increasing global temperature.


There are a number of reasons to think that CO2 is not important to
controlling global temperature and that much of the CO2 increase may not
be anthropogenic. Some recent research points worth mentioning:

Recent high-resolution studies of historical CO2 concentrations and
temperatures over hundreds of thousands of years have shown a modest
correlation between the two. In a number of cases, CO2 level increases
are not in phase with temperature increases and actually trail the
increase in temperature by a short time i.e. increases in temperature
preceded increases in CO2 concentrations. The more studies that are done
of the geological record, the more it seems that CO2 concentrations are
correlated with temperature increases, but are not significantly
causative. There is a lot of evidence that CO2 levels are regulated in a
fairly stable fashion.  I don't believe anyone really has an
authoritative answer as to exactly how this works yet.

With respect to absolute CO2 concentrations, it is also important to
point out that our best data to date suggests that they follow a fairly
regular cycle with a period of about 100,000 years.  At previous cycle
peaks, the concentrations were similar to what they are now.  If this
cycle has any validity (and we only have good data for 4-5 complete
cyclical periods, but which look surprisingly regular in shape and
time), then we should be almost exactly at a peak right now.  As it
happens, current CO2 concentrations are within 10% of other previous
cyclical concentration peaks for which we have good data. In other
words, we may be adding to the CO2 levels, but it looks a lot like we
would be building a molehill on top of a mountain in the historical
record.  At the very least, there is nothing anomalous about current CO2
concentrations.

Also, CO2 levels interact with the biosphere in a manner that ultimately
affects temperature.  Again, the interaction is not entirely
predictable, but this is believed to be one of the regulating negative
feedback systems mentioned above.

Last, as greenhouse gases go, CO2 isn't particularly potent, although it
makes up for it in volume in some cases.  Gases such as water and
methane have a far greater impact as greenhouse gases on a per molecule
basis.  Water vapor may actually be the key greenhouse gas, something
that CO2 only indirectly effects through its interaction with the
biosphere.

CO2 was an easy mark for early environmentalism, but all the recent
studies and data I've seen gives me the impression that it is largely a
passenger on the climate ride rather than the driver.  I certainly don't
think it is a healthy fixation if we're actually interested in
understanding warming trends.

Cheers,

-James Rogers
 jamesr@best.com





golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0832.e4325e0432c958e4cf5a36fef3bf8573.eml000066400000000000000000000121311444326627400312120ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 24 23:31:48 2002
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Read the article.  I'm afraid I don't understand how the transmission
prices could have hit $50/tcf.

But I'm also really leery of telling a pipeline company they have to run
a pipeline at a higher pressure and that they should forego maintenance.
We had a big pipeline explosion up here awhile ago.

So maybe the judge has a point.  We'll see as the appeals work its way
out.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geege Schuman [mailto:geege@barrera.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 5:16 AM
> To: johnhall@evergo.net
> Subject: RE: liberal defnitions
> 
> from slate's "today's papers":  The New York Times and Los Angeles
Times
> both lead with word that
> a federal judge ruled yesterday that the nation's largest
> national gas pipeline company, El Paso, illegally withheld gas
> from the market during California's energy squeeze in 2000-01.
> The judge concluded that El Paso left 21 percent of its capacity
> in the state off-line, thus driving up the price of gas and
> helping to induce rolling blackouts.
> 
> and this is the product of overregulation?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of
John
> Hall
> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 11:57 PM
> To: FoRK
> Subject: liberal defnitions
> 
> 
> Depends on how much over spending vs. how much (and what type) over
> regulation.
> 
> The biggest problem with over regulation is the costs can be
invisible.
> It also has the ability to single out particular people, while over
> spending spreads the damage more evenly.  Rent control would be an
> example of a regulation solution that is in general worse than
spending
> tons of money on public housing.
> 
> As for the definition of a liberal being someone who seeks to impose
> both, I find no fault in that definition whatsoever.  The opinion that
> EITHER we are spending too much OR we have too much regulation is
pretty
> much anathema to liberal politics.
> 
> Finally, those who argue that there are private replacements for much
> government regulation are not saying that a state of nature (no
private
> replacements, no government regulation) is better than government
> regulation itself.
> 
> And in my experience people who label themselves 'Green' (which does
not
> include everyone who loves trees and thinks smokestacks are ugly) is a
> watermelon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
> Geege
> > Schuman
> >
> > funny. i read it as green = red, as in accounting, as in fiscally
> > irresponsible.  which do you think is the worse indictment -
> > overregulation
> > or overspending?  there are many (dickheads) who buy into the
> > neo-conservative media's (fox's) definiton of "liberal" as "one who
> seeks
> > to
> > impose both."
> 
> 
> 



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0833.8b8a773585ed6039efda26f9923a2913.eml000066400000000000000000000047231444326627400310730ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 24 23:31:49 2002
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> Proving, once again, that aviators get all the chicks...

Just as long as they have the wherewithal
for avgas, anyway.

I think Turpin once calculated that one
could do a decent amount of messing about
for about $30K of boat and $12K/year in
living expenses.

What are the equivalent figures for live
aboard aircraft?

-Dave

(How difficult would it be to find the
harbormaster, after mooring to the top
of the Empire State Building?)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0834.36dab5acc512c15f3d6840b44e958b2a.eml000066400000000000000000000052011444326627400312440ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Sep 24 23:55:17 2002
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Subject: Random hack Q: drawing on CDs with lasers?
From: Rohit Khare 
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O utensils of the world --

I wonder if it is possible to reverse-engineer the Reed-Solomon 
error-correcting codes to create a bytestream such that, when burned 
onto a CD, you can make out a picture in the diffraction pattern?

I suppose this is a modern equivalent to line-printer artwork; I was 
imagining using a CD-RW drive to use the outer track, say, to spell out 
the disc title, creation time, etc. It would sure beat feeding CDs 
through a laser printer :-)

Rohit


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0835.21423890177aefe5eae8d27d8f18735d.eml000066400000000000000000000056061444326627400311500ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 25 10:24:47 2002
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On Tue, 24 Sep 2002, Rohit Khare wrote:

> I suppose this is a modern equivalent to line-printer artwork; I was 
> imagining using a CD-RW drive to use the outer track, say, to spell out 
> the disc title, creation time, etc. It would sure beat feeding CDs 
> through a laser printer :-)

There are commercial burners which can be labeled that way. Patterns in 
the unburnt section.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0836.249730de164ba4999f1ab6ec2d3cb2d1.eml000066400000000000000000000075141444326627400312650ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 25 10:24:49 2002
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From: "Geege Schuman" 
To: 
Subject: Liberalism in America
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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liberalism
propagandized as meddling
in truth, the middle

"American liberalism believes that in this respect it has made a major
contribution to the grand strategy of freedom. Where both capitalists and
socialists in the 1930's were trying to narrow the choice to either/or --
either laissez-faire capitalism or bureaucratic socialism -- the New Deal
persisted in its vigorous faith that human intelligence and social
experiment could work out a stable foundation for freedom in a context of
security and for security in a context of freedom. That faith remains the
best hope of free society today."

fluid yet crunchy,
gg




 http://www.english.upenn.edu/~afilreis/50s/schleslib.html

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Modified=E0824ED43364C201DE

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0837.23be7a8b5000203fd4e9fba1574d9fa3.eml000066400000000000000000000115271444326627400312560ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 25 10:24:51 2002
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Righ, somebody. Reminds me of the old Divorced Man's exposition of what
happened to him.

"First, you get a ring. Then you give it away. Then, you get a house. And
you give *that* away...."

Just kidding, Darling...

;-).

Cheers,
RAH
Who, um, doesn't own a house...


--- begin forwarded text


Status: RO
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 20:12:12 -0400
From: Somebody
To: "R. A. Hettinga" 
Subject: Re: SF Weekly's Ultimate SF Date lineup :-)

Bob,

    Living aboard a Cessna 172 would be challenging, but I did meet a
couple at an airshow in Point Mugu in 1995 or so that had converted an
old seaplane (it was a bit larger than a PBY, I think) to something of a
floating, flying RV.  They visited a lot of airshows and covered a lot of
miles.  I'm sure maintenance (on a 50+ year old airframe), fuel (for two
large radial engines) insurance and other costs were out of my price
range, but what a hoot!

    On a more realistic note, the flight to Half Moon bay was probably 2
hours of flight time at about  $75/hour in the Cessna.  Not exactly a
cheap date, but that's nothing compared to the money I've spent on her
since.  (And loved every minute of it, Darling!!)

        


"R. A. Hettinga" wrote:

> --- begin forwarded text
>
> Status: RO
> Delivered-To: fork@example.com
> To: fork@example.com
> Subject: Re: SF Weekly's Ultimate SF Date lineup :-)
> From: Dave Long 
> Sender: fork-admin@xent.com
> Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 13:28:04 -0700
>
> > Proving, once again, that aviators get all the chicks...
>
> Just as long as they have the wherewithal
> for avgas, anyway.
>
> I think Turpin once calculated that one
> could do a decent amount of messing about
> for about $30K of boat and $12K/year in
> living expenses.
>
> What are the equivalent figures for live
> aboard aircraft?
>
> -Dave
>
> (How difficult would it be to find the
> harbormaster, after mooring to the top
> of the Empire State Building?)
>
> --- end forwarded text
>
> --
> -----------------
> R. A. Hettinga 
> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
> "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
> [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
> experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0838.4f78deeabc13a2826a0d6c9c86236f48.eml000066400000000000000000000070011444326627400312730ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 25 10:24:53 2002
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Subject: Digital radio playlists are prohibited?!
From: Rohit Khare 
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Anyone heard of this law before?

> Q. Can I get a playlist?
> A. We are unable to offer a playlist. The Digital Performance Right in 
> Sound Recordings Act of 1995 passed by Congress prevents us from 
> disclosing such information. The Digital Law states that if one is 
> transmitting a digital signal, song information cannot be 
> pre-announced. It is a Music Choice policy not to release a playlist of 
> upcoming or previously played songs.

Recently, MusicChoice upgraded their website with a very important 
service, as far as I'm concerned: real-time song info from their 
website. My DirecTV receiver is up on a shelf (and its display scrolls 
intermittently); and I'm surely not going to fire up my projector while 
listening to the "radio", so I'm quite happy that I can retrieve r/t 
song info with URLs like:

http://backstage.musicchoice.com/songid/channels/soundsoftheseasons.asp
http://backstage.musicchoice.com/songid/channels/rap.asp
http://backstage.musicchoice.com/songid/channels/opera.asp
etc...

Now, if I were a more eager hacker, I'd write up little WSDL stubs for 
these event streams (they're clearly not worried about load, since their 
own web pages specify 15 sec meta-refresh) and then feed 'em through a 
content router to alert me to cool songs. Heck, cross-reference the 
service to CDDB and... :-)

RK


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0839.12075b1a4eb499ff6a0d7fd0e9d776db.eml000066400000000000000000000046221444326627400313610ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 25 10:24:54 2002
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Russell Turpin wrote:
>Invite her for an afternoon cruise under the Golden Gate bridge in
>your Stonehorse day sailor.

Sounds good.


>Under way, ask her if she'd like to take the stick.

Whoah!  That's a rather direct approach!


R. A. Hettinga quoted:
>From: Somebody
>[...] what I did in 1983 was to rent a plane from the Moffett Field
>flying club and take her on an aerial tour

Sounds great.


>I can't recall whether or not I gave her any stick time.

Can't remember if he's in the mile-high club?  Even worse!!!


R


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0840.fa01ffae1e9fef46ad0044b265fc6667.eml000066400000000000000000000073121444326627400314220ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Sep 25 21:33:31 2002
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From: Lucas Gonze 
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> The only circumstances in which a business will not be ready--indeed,
> eager--to do an additional volume of business is if it is physically unable
> to do so because it lacks the necessary physical means of doing so, or
> because the costs it incurs in doing so exceed the additional sales revenue
> it will receive.

That is a fully retarded view of economics, and pretty much the same kind
of clueless oversimplication that led to the blackouts.  There are a
bazillion factors that affect game strategies, which is what the state of
California messed up and the energy producers exploited.

I'm not convinced that the only way to prevent future energy debacles like
the blackouts is to reregulate.  Ultimately we have to blame the people
who crafted the game rules in a way that invited blackouts and
exploitation.  Given that the particular set of rules crafted by the state
of California sucked, does there exist a set of rules that doesn't suck?  
If there does exist a better set of rules, then reregulation isn't
necessarily the answer.

You can't blame businesses for being profit maximizers.  Yes, the people 
involved were heartless and corrupt.  But mainly they just did their 
jobs.

The guilty parties are either the mathematicians and economists who wrote
the rules or, if the mathematicians and economists said there were no good
rules, pro-deregulation politicians who went ahead anyway.

- Lucas







golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0841.c178b14279ed5f5f9e5be2abac186b3c.eml000066400000000000000000000201551444326627400314260ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 26 11:04:29 2002
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--- begin forwarded text


Status: RO
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 2002 13:57:15 -0400
To: Digital Bearer Settlement List 
From: "R. A. Hettinga" 
Subject: California needs intelligent energy deregulation
Sender: 

http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/4144696.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp

Posted on Tue, Sep. 24, 2002


Dan Gillmor: State needs intelligent energy deregulation

By Dan Gillmor
Mercury News Technology Columnist

The facts were trade and government secrets at the time. But the energy
industry failed the smell test in 2000 and 2001 as it tried to justify
soaring wholesale electricity and natural-gas prices in California.

Now, as investigators and regulators unravel the reasons for a financial
and fiscal mess we'll be cleaning up for decades, we're learning what
everyone suspected. Market games helped engineer the price spikes.

The latest manipulation was highlighted in Monday's finding by a federal
administrative law judge, who said a dominant natural-gas company squeezed
supplies in order to squeeze customers. His ruling came a few days after
California's Public Utilities Commission reported that electricity
generators mysteriously failed to use available capacity during the crunch,
also driving up prices.

And don't forget the sleazy games by energy traders who gleefully worked
the system, in schemes best summed up by an Enron insider's boast in a
memorandum made public in May, that ``Enron gets paid for moving energy to
relieve congestion without actually moving any energy or relieving any
congestion.''

How much of this was illegal, as opposed to simply amoral, remains to be
seen. Unfortunately, California's response -- confusion, lawsuits and
policy tweaks -- hasn't been sufficient.

More unfortunately, even if the state suddenly did all the right things --
including a hard-nosed program designed to free ourselves from the gougers'
grips -- we would need a willing federal partner. But it's foolish to think
that the Bush administration would do much to help one of its least
favorite states, or do anything that conflicts with its love of
traditional, non-renewable energy sources.

If the lawsuits against various energy companies and traders bear any
fruit, the best we can expect is to pay off some of the massive debts the
state amassed to prevent a total collapse in early 2001. That's a
reasonable approach, but don't expect miracles.

State policies are moving the wrong way on utility regulation, meanwhile.
Instead of relentlessly pursuing smart deregulation -- still a good idea if
it gives customers genuine choices -- state laws and regulations ``put the
utilities back in the business of buying energy for captive customers,''
notes V. John White, executive director of the Sacramento-based Center for
Energy Efficiency and Renewable Technologies (www.ceert.org).

It's tempting to call for an outright state takeover of the utilities --
tempting but a bad idea. When there's genuine competition, as we could
achieve in electricity generation, the private sector tends to do a better
job. Instead of abandoning deregulation, California should find a way to
inject real competition into the market.

We do need to recognize that the current system of delivering electricity
defies privatization, at least under current conditions. Smart regulation
is essential.

But the best response to gouging is to use less of what the gougers
control. There are two ways: conservation and replacement. We need more of
both.

The best recent step is a new state law that slowly but surely ratchets up
the use of electricity from renewables. By 2017, California's utilities
will have to get 20 percent of their power from solar and other renewable
sources. Several power companies are expected to do this even sooner.

But this law has an element of old-line thinking, the captive-customer
model we need to be getting away from, not sustaining. Lip service to newer
ideas isn't enough.

The state should be removing barriers to micro-generation systems, small
generators that can run on a variety of fuels and provide decentralized,
harder-to-disrupt electricity to homes and businesses. This technology is
coming along fast. State policies are not keeping pace.

Investing to save energy is increasingly the smartest move of all.
California should be doing more to encourage this, whether through tax
incentives or outright grants in low-income households. California hasn't
done badly on conservation in a general sense, and energy customers did
react to last year's soaring rates and blackouts by cutting back, but it's
lunacy to wait for the next crisis when we can do something to avoid it
altogether.

Maybe this is all pointless. The Bush administration's energy policies, so
grossly tilted toward the unholy trinity of oil, coal and nuclear, are
making us all more vulnerable. Never mind what might happen if the coming
war in Iraq goes badly.

It's pointless to hope for a sane federal policy -- a crash program to
drastically speed the inevitable transition to a hydrogen-based energy
system. But the largest state, one of the world's major economies in its
own right, does have some clout. We can hit the rip-off artists where it
hurts, and protect ourselves from even more serious disruptions. Maybe next
year.

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0842.5d790576a819e435b41abe9c0af61ec5.eml000066400000000000000000000167631444326627400312210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 26 11:04:32 2002
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From: "Jim Whitehead" 
To: 
Subject: RE: CO2 and climate (was RE: Goodbye Global Warming)
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OK, let's bring some data into the discussion:
http://www.grida.no/climate/vital/02.htm
(A graph, derived from Vostok ice core samples, of CO2 and temperature
fluctuations over the past 400k years).

> Recent high-resolution studies of historical CO2 concentrations and
> temperatures over hundreds of thousands of years have shown a modest
> correlation between the two. In a number of cases, CO2 level increases
> are not in phase with temperature increases and actually trail the
> increase in temperature by a short time i.e. increases in temperature
> preceded increases in CO2 concentrations. The more studies that are done
> of the geological record, the more it seems that CO2 concentrations are
> correlated with temperature increases, but are not significantly
> causative.

Based on the Vostok data, you are right, there is a very strong correlation
between temperature and CO2 concentrations, but it doesn't always appear to
be causal.

> With respect to absolute CO2 concentrations, it is also important to
> point out that our best data to date suggests that they follow a fairly
> regular cycle with a period of about 100,000 years.

Also correct -- the peak of each cycle is at about 290-300 ppm CO2.

> As it
> happens, current CO2 concentrations are within 10% of other previous
> cyclical concentration peaks for which we have good data.

Not correct. Mauna Loa data  and
 show that the current CO2
concentrations are at 370ppm, 18% *greater* than the *highest* recorded
value from the past 400k years. Furthermore, CO2 concentrations are growing
at 15ppm every 10 years, much faster than any recorded increase in the
Vostok data (though perhaps the Vostok data isn't capable of such fine
resolution).

> In other words, we may be adding to the CO2 levels,

No, we are *definitely* adding to CO2 levels. Look at the following chart:
http://www.grida.no/climate/vital/07.htm
(Shows CO2 concentrations since 1870, the "historical record").

Not only is the CO2 increase over 130 years unprecedented in the Vostok
record, it is clear that the rate of change is *increasing*, not decreasing.
There is no other compelling explanation for this increase, except for
anthropogenic input. You're really out on the fringe if you're debating
this -- even global warming skeptics generally concede this point.

> but it looks a lot like we
> would be building a molehill on top of a mountain in the historical
> record.  At the very least, there is nothing anomalous about current CO2
> concentrations.

Wrong again. Current CO2 levels are currently unprecedented over the past
400k years, unless there is some mechanism that allows CO2 levels to quickly
spike, and then return back to "normal" background levels (and hence the
spike might not show up in the ice cores).

Still, by around 2075-2100 we will have reached 500 ppm CO2, a level that
even you would have a hard time arguing away.

> Also, CO2 levels interact with the biosphere in a manner that ultimately
> affects temperature.  Again, the interaction is not entirely
> predictable, but this is believed to be one of the regulating negative
> feedback systems mentioned above.

Yes, clouds and oceans are a big unknown. Still, we know ocean water has a
finite capacity to store CO2, and if the world temperature doesn't increase,
but we all have Seattle-like weather all the time, the effects would be
enormous.

> Last, as greenhouse gases go, CO2 isn't particularly potent, although it
> makes up for it in volume in some cases.  Gases such as water and
> methane have a far greater impact as greenhouse gases on a per molecule
> basis.  Water vapor may actually be the key greenhouse gas, something
> that CO2 only indirectly effects through its interaction with the
> biosphere.

Correct.

Data on relative contributions of greenhouse gasses:
http://www.grida.no/climate/vital/05.htm

Note that methane concentrations now are *much* higher than pre-industrial
levels (many cows farting, and rice paddies outgassing), and methane is also
a contributor in the formation of atmospheric water vapor. Another clearly
anthropogenic increase in a greenhouse gas. I'm in favor of reductions in
methane levels as well.

Data on water vapor here:
http://www.agu.org/sci_soc/mockler.html

> CO2 was an easy mark for early environmentalism, but all the recent
> studies and data I've seen gives me the impression that it is largely a
> passenger on the climate ride rather than the driver.

I tend to think that holistic, and techical approaches would work best in
reducing global warming. I favor an energy policy that has a mix of solar,
wind and nuclear, with all carbon-based combustion using renewable sources
of C-H bonds. Aggressive pursuit of carbon sink strategies also makes sense
(burying trees deep underground, for example). Approaches that involve
reductions in lifestyle to a "sustainable" level are unrealistic --
Americans just won't do it (you'd be surprised at the number of climate
change researchers driving SUVs). But, as California showed during last
year's energy crisis, shifts in patterns of consumption are possible, and
improved efficiency is an easy sell.

- Jim


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0843.6e5323ee268f72a690f5e5af60643e73.eml000066400000000000000000000103441444326627400310610ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 26 11:04:44 2002
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To: fork@example.com
Subject: Kissinger
From: Dave Long 
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[can't think of how I'd be running
afoul of the spam filters with this
post, so here's the second try...]

Kissinger's book _Does America Need
a Foreign Policy?_ provides a few
handy abstractions:

> The ultimate dilemma of the statesman is to strike a balance between
> values ["idealism"] and interests ["realism"] and, occasionally,
> between peace and justice.

Also, he views historical American
approaches to foreign policy as a
bundle of three fibers:

Hamiltonian - We should only get
  involved in foreign adventures
  to preserve balances of power.

Wilsonian - We should only get
  involved in foreign adventures
  to further democracy, etc.

Jacksonian - We should never get
  involved in foreign adventures.
  Unless we're attacked.  Then we
  go Rambo.

He has tactfully left out the hard
realists*; as for the rest I gather
wilsonians play the idealists, and
hamiltonians act where values and
interests intersect, and jacksonians 
act only when values and interests
overlap.

Kissinger himself seems to be a
Hamiltonian; much of the book is
about how he thinks we ought to
be shaping the balance of power
in various foreign regions.

Maybe I've been too affected by
Kant, but I can't see that such
a strategy works unless one can
count on a Bismarck runnning it:
how lopsided does the US look if
everyone tries to run a balance
of power politics?

- -Dave

*
> The road to empire leads to domestic decay because, in time, the claims
> of omnipotence erode domestic restraints.  No empire has avoided the
> road to Caesarism unless, like the British Empire, it devolved its
> power before this process could develop.  In long-lasting empires,
> every problem turns into a domestic issue [which should be handled
> very differently from international ones] because the outside world
> no longer provides a counterweight.  And as challenges grow more
> diffuse and increasingly remote from the historic domestic base,
> internal struggles become ever more bitter and in time violent.
> A deliberate quest for hegemony is the surest way to destroy the
> values that made the United States great.

Kings and tyrants generically have
followed the same power politics:
garner popular support by keeping
potential oligarchs down.  In other
traditions, a king is a legitimate
tyrant, and a tyrant an illegitimate
king.  In the US, I'd hope that we,
like Samuel, wouldn't naturally make
such fine distinctions.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0844.6aab9e4919f6524f88591d6ef1e3f445.eml000066400000000000000000000061031444326627400311550ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 26 11:04:45 2002
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From: Tom 
To: fork@example.com
Subject: Re: Digital radio playlists are prohibited?!
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--]
--] Anyone heard of this law before?

Back when I was running the WSMF shoutcast server these restrictions were
just being placed on netcasters. Most folks laughed it off. Now with the
license fees its not laughable anymore. If you pay the fee you are bound
to the restrictions, if you dont your running the criminal line.

I still run a stream up on live365. Its been playing the same 10 hour
block of Jean Shepard shows for the last year. I really should change them
up.

If I were going to do the old WSMF shoutcast now adays I would either
spend lots of time going over regulations to see what I can or cannot do
or I would just chuck the regs out and do what I want. Or I might write
some apps to stay in regs ..I dont know..one thing is for sure it
defiently takes the spontaneous edge off things:)-

F Murray Abraham
F Scott Fitzgerald
F Hillary Rossen

-tom


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0845.eb2eb66b172d250b0b35f971bab702c4.eml000066400000000000000000000053421444326627400312410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 26 11:04:48 2002
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On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Gordon Mohr wrote:
> In contrast, take a look at this article by Simon J. Wilkie of
> Caltech:

Wow, that Wilkie article is the single best explanation I've seen.

The open question is whether any analysis before the fact warned the
politicians, or whether the politicians were forewarned and went ahead.  
What did they know and when did they know it?





golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0846.c64497babd4cafa18571fd484fd44e9d.eml000066400000000000000000000073101444326627400314410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 26 11:04:50 2002
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Subject: Re: Digital radio playlists are prohibited?!
From: James Rogers 
To: fork@example.com
In-Reply-To: <132203498905.20020925163453@magnesium.net>
References: <95745878-D05F-11D6-8F1E-000393A46DEA@alumni.caltech.edu>
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On Wed, 2002-09-25 at 13:34, bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:
> 
> This, kiddies was apparently the legislative beginnings of the whole
> streaming audio-gets-spanked-by-fees ruling that came down in the
> earlier parts of this year.  This first act applied to non-exempt,
> non-subscription transmission services.  When Congress got around in
> 1998 and realized that webcasting services -might- be different
> (though I honestly can't see how) they wrote in the provision through
> the DMCA to include such transmissions.


The restrictive law regarding audio is actually the accumulated cruft of
30 years of various legislative acts. The totality of what we have now
come from various parts of all the following re: sound recordings:

1998 - DMCA
1995 - Digital Performance Right in Sound Recordings Act
1992 - Audio Home Recording Act
1976 - Copyright Act amendment
1972 - Copyright Act amendment

It is worth noting that many people have forgotten about the 1976
Copyright Act Amendment which created the foundational law stating that
the copyright owners have the right to limit personal use of audio
recordings after First Sale even if you are not "making copies" in any
commercial sense.  Sound recordings, for many intents and purposes, are
explicitly excluded from Fair Use by the 1976 amendment.

-James Rogers
 jamesr@best.com



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0847.00a64e95e9b26dd792571a8213a90c78.eml000066400000000000000000000047611444326627400310040ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 26 11:04:51 2002
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Let's say you're behind a firewall and have a NAT address.
Is there any way to telnet to a linux box out there in the world
and set your DISPLAY in some way that you can create
xterms on your own screen?

- Joe

-- 
That girl became the spring wind
She flew somewhere, far away
Undoing her hair, lying down, in her sleep
She becomes the wind.




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0848.ef1b9b43e194c1650d7722ffcc7b20ad.eml000066400000000000000000000056211444326627400313430ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 26 11:04:53 2002
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A friend in Dublin is mailing me the CD which was in the UK Sunday 
Times. I've just been advised that running it in a Win32 machine is 
dangerous as all get out.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/27232.html

-- whump


----
Bill Humphries 
http://www.whump.com/moreLikeThis/


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0849.84e6b16e331d3e5bcd798ca0f5374624.eml000066400000000000000000000056211444326627400311410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 26 11:04:54 2002
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A friend in Dublin is mailing me the CD which was in the UK Sunday 
Times. I've just been advised that running it in a Win32 machine is 
dangerous as all get out.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/27232.html

-- whump


----
Bill Humphries 
http://www.whump.com/moreLikeThis/


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0850.37218bc58cdc1cf2502010a098c77965.eml000066400000000000000000000055511444326627400307600ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 26 11:04:55 2002
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To: "Joseph S. Barrera III" 
Cc: FoRK 
Subject: Re: dumb question: X client behind a firewall?
References: <3D924040.1080303@barrera.org>
From: Karl Anderson 
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	      NOSPAM_INC,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,
	      SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE,USER_AGENT,X_AUTH_WARNING
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"Joseph S. Barrera III"  writes:

> Let's say you're behind a firewall and have a NAT address.
> Is there any way to telnet to a linux box out there in the world
> and set your DISPLAY in some way that you can create
> xterms on your own screen?

Assuming your local display is X, SSH.

-- 
Karl Anderson      kra@monkey.org           http://www.monkey.org/~kra/


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0851.b7c6fc9da1800afe4eed1a0807dbdccc.eml000066400000000000000000000047031444326627400317070ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 26 11:04:57 2002
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From: "Joseph S. Barrera III" 
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To: FoRK 
Subject: Re: dumb question: X client behind a firewall?
References: <3D924040.1080303@barrera.org>
    
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Wow, three replies already, all recommending ssh. Thanks!

- Joe

Back in my day, they didn't have ssh. Then again, back in my day,
they didn't have firewalls. And I still miss X10's active icons.




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0852.cab2623799815a32681d15c6c82a41c5.eml000066400000000000000000000063141444326627400307610ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 26 16:35:29 2002
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From: "Jeff Barr" 
To: 
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Subject: Re: Digital radio playlists are prohibited?!
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> Subject: Re: Digital radio playlists are prohibited?!
> From: James Rogers 
> To: fork@example.com
> Date: 25 Sep 2002 12:52:15 -0700
> 
> On Wed, 2002-09-25 at 01:19, Rohit Khare wrote:
> > Anyone heard of this law before?
> 
> 
> Absolutely.  More accurately, it is part of the RIAAs "regulation" for
> broadcasting music under their auspices.  This is actually part of the
> default statutory license the RIAA is compelled to issue.  You can try
> and establish your own contract with each of the individual publishers
> in addition to the writers, but that is a Herculean undertaking in its
> own right.  The details are really gross and complicated.

Perhaps the stations cannot publish digital playlists, but you can get
them from www.starcd.com anyway. They use some sort of
listening and recognition technology to identify the music played
on over 1000 US radio stations.

Jeff;


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On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Joseph S. Barrera III wrote:

> Let's say you're behind a firewall and have a NAT address.
> Is there any way to telnet to a linux box out there in the world
> and set your DISPLAY in some way that you can create
> xterms on your own screen?

As other people suggested: SSH. PuTTY 

	http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/download.html

can do it. Can run, say xclock (I'm running an X server under W32 at work,
tunneling through a NAT box), but from Linux, not from Solaris.  Probably
OpenSSH misconfigurat5ion.


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From: James Rogers 
Subject: Native American economics (was Re: sed /s/United States/Roman
    Empire/g)
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I wanted to get back to this but didn't have the time.  I actually lived on
a couple different Indian reservations growing up in the Pacific Northwest
and also spent a fair amount time in Lakota/Sioux country as well.  And my
parents have lived on an even more diverse range of Indian reservations than
I have (my experience being a direct result of living with my parents).  I
do get a lot of my information first-hand, or in some cases, second-hand
from my father.

The income figures for the Indians are somewhat misleading, mostly because
it is really hard to do proper accounting of the effective income.  While it
is true that some Indians live in genuine poverty, it is typically as a
consequence of previous poor decisions that were made by the tribe, not
something that was impressed upon them.

The primary problem with the accounting is that there is a tribal entity
that exists separately from the individuals, typically an "Indian
Corporation" of one type or another where each member of the tribe owns a
single share (the details of when and how a share becomes active varies from
tribe to tribe).  In most tribes, a dividend is paid out to each of the
tribal members from the corporation, usually to the tune of $10-30k per
person, depending on the tribe.  The dividend money comes from a number of
places, with the primary sources being the Federal Gov't and various
businesses/assets owned by the Indian corporation.

You have to understand a couple things:  First, a great many Indian tribes
are run as purely communist enterprises.  Everyone gets a check for their
share no matter what.  One of the biggest problems this has caused is very
high unemployment (often 70-90%) for tribal members, who are more than happy
take their dividend and not work.  The dividend they receive from the
corporation often constitutes their sole "income" for government accounting
purposes.  Unfortunately, to support this type of economics when no one
works, they've had to sell off most of their useful assets to maintain those
dividends.  Many of the tribes genuinely living in poverty do so because
they have run out of things to sell yet nobody works.  One of the ironies is
that on many of the reservations where the tribes still have assets to burn,
many of the people working in the stores and such are actually poor white
folk, not Indians.

Second, even though the tribe members each get a cash dividend, they also
receive an enormous range of benefits and perks from the Indian corporation
to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars per person annually.  By
benefits and perks, we are talking about the kinds of things no other
ordinary American receives from either their employer or the government.

It should be pointed out that while many of these Indian corporations are
ineptly run, and mostly provide sinecures for other Indians, a minority are
very smartly managed and a few hire non-Indian business executives with good
credentials to run their business divisions.  An example of this is the
Haida Corporation, which while having less 1,000 tribal shareholders, has
billions of dollars in assets and the various corporations they own have
gross revenues in the $200-300 million range (and growing).  Yet the
dividend paid out is strictly controlled, about $20k in this particular
case, and they engaged in a practice of waiting a couple decades before
drawing money from any of the assets they were granted which has led to
intelligent investment and use.  They don't eat their seed corn, and have
actually managed to grow their stash.  In contrast, a couple islands over,
there is another tribe of ~2,000 people that has a net loss of about $50
million annually IIRC while being regularly endowed by the Federal
government with several billions of dollars in valuable assets.  This
particular tribe has a modest income in theory, but the actual expenditures
per person annually is in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, and many
borrow money against future income.  Incidentally, in this particular case,
the people that ARE working frequently pull in a few hundred thousand
dollars a year, much of which goes back to the tribal corporation rather
than their own pockets.

Somewhat annoying, the Federal government semi-regularly grants valuable
assets to these tribes when they've burned through the ones previously given
where feasible, typically selling the assets to American or foreign
companies.  And the cycle continues.

So what is the primary problem for the tribes that have problems?  In a
nutshell, a thoroughly pathological culture and society.

Few women reach the age of 16 without getting pregnant.  Incest, rape, and
gross promiscuity is rampant.  Inbreeding, heavy drug abuse during
pregnancy, and other environmental factors have created tribes where a very
substantial fraction of the tribe is literally mentally retarded.  Many of
the thoughtful and intelligent tribe members leave the reservation at the
earliest opportunity, mostly to avoid the problems mentioned above.  On one
reservation my parents lived, the HIV infection rate was >70%.  Many of
these societies are thoroughly corrupt, and the administration of the law is
arbitrary and capricious (they do have their own judges, courts, police
etc).

In short, many of these tribes that are still hanging together are in a
shambles because they have become THE most pathological societies that I
have ever seen anywhere.  Because of their legal status, there really aren't
that many consequences for their behavior.  There are many things that I
could tell you that I've seen that you probably would not believe unless
you'd seen it yourself.  There are always good people in these tribes, but
it has gotten to the point where the losers and idiots outnumber the good
guys by a fair margin many times, and this IS a mobocracy typically.  (BTW,
if any of you white folk wants to experience overt and aggressive racism as
a minority in a place where the rule of law is fiction and the police are
openly thugs, try living on one of these messed up Indian reservations.  It
will give you an interesting perspective on things.)

There are only two real situations where you find reasonably prosperous
Indians.  The first is in the rare case of tribes run by disciplined and
intelligent people that have managed their assets wisely.  The second is
where the tribe has dispersed and assimilated for the most part, even if
they maintain their tribal identity.  In both of these cases, the tribal
leaders reject the insular behavior that tends to lead to the pathological
cases mentioned above.

The Indians are often quite wealthy technically, and a lot of money is spent
by the tribe per capita.  And the actual reportable income is quite high
when you consider how many are living entirely off the tribal dole.  It is
just that their peculiar economic structure does not lend itself well to
ordinary economic analysis by merely looking at their nominal income.  The
poverty is social and cultural in nature, not economic.  This was my
original point.


On a tangent:

One thing that has always interested me is the concept of quasi-tribal
corporate socialism.  Many Indian tribes implement a type of corporate
socialism that is mind-bogglingly bad in execution.  That they use this
structure at all is an accident of history more than anything.  But what has
interested me is that the very smartly managed ones do surprisingly well
over the long run.  It is like a Family Corporation writ large.

It seems that in a future where "familial" ties will be increasingly
voluntary, the general concept may have some merit in general Western
society, serving to create a facsimile of a biological extended family with
the included dynamics, but with an arbitrary set of self-selecting
individuals.

Damn that was long (and its late), and it could have been a lot longer.

-James Rogers
 jamesr@best.com 



On 9/22/02 3:53 PM, "John Hall"  wrote:
> 
> As I understand it, there is a huge difference between native Americans
> who speak english at home and those who do not.  I don't have figures
> that separate those at hand, though.
> 
> 1989 American Indians (US Pop as a whole) -- Families below poverty
> 27.2% (10%), Persons below poverty 31.2 (13.1), Speak a language other
> than English 23 (13.8) Married couple families 65.8 (79.5) Median family
> income $21,619 ($35,225) Per Capita $8,284 ($14,420).


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0855.5b51f55bb80a0889f3d7071b99f8cdef.eml000066400000000000000000000073151444326627400313140ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Sep 27 10:43:14 2002
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In essence, hindsight justification.  The progressives weren't in the
middle, they were in a society at one end and they wanted a society at
the other end.  The middle is more or less where they got stopped.

As to an intervention that worked, I actually have some nice things to
say about the SEC, at least in theory.  I have a few nasty things to say
as well, but on the whole it has been a very good thing.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
Geege
> Schuman
> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 6:37 PM
> To: fork@example.com
> Subject: Liberalism in America
> 
> liberalism
> propagandized as meddling
> in truth, the middle
> 
> "American liberalism believes that in this respect it has made a major
> contribution to the grand strategy of freedom. Where both capitalists
and
> socialists in the 1930's were trying to narrow the choice to either/or
--
> either laissez-faire capitalism or bureaucratic socialism -- the New
Deal
> persisted in its vigorous faith that human intelligence and social
> experiment could work out a stable foundation for freedom in a context
of
> security and for security in a context of freedom. That faith remains
the
> best hope of free society today."
> 
> fluid yet crunchy,
> gg
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  http://www.english.upenn.edu/~afilreis/50s/schleslib.html


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On Friday, September 27, 2002, at 11:17 AM, Jim Whitehead wrote:

> I attended the OSCOM Open Source Content Management workshop at 
> Berkeley
> yesterday.

I really wanted to go to this, especially to look at XOPUS. 
Unfortunately, we're launching a new intranet at work next week and I 
couldn't get away. XOPUS + an XML native DB such as Xindice looks like 
something that could hit a home run.

-- whump
"I have a theory, it could be bunnies."


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Adjournment of Michel Fournier's big Jump in May, 2003.

Two attempts of launch failed : the first because of the wind which got up
prematurely and the second due to a technical hitch during the inflating of
the envelope.
The team of the Big Jump, folds luggage, having waited up to the end for an
opportunity for the launch of the balloon stratosph�rique allowing to raise
the

capsule pressurized by Michel Fournier at more than 40 000 metres in height.
As expected, in the date of September 20, the jets stream strengthened in
300 kph announcing the imminent arrival of the winter and closing until next
May the meteorological window favorable to a human raid in the stratosphere.
On the plains of Saskatchewan, the first snows are waited in the days which
come.Meeting in all in May, 2003.

> Today a French officer called Michel Fournier is supposed to get in a
> 350-metre tall helium balloon, ride it up to the edge of space (40 km
> altitude) and jump out.  His fall should last 6.5 minutes and reach
> speeds of Mach 1.5.  He hopes to open his parachute manually at the
> end, although with an automatic backup if he is 7 seconds from the
> ground and still hasn't opened it.
>
> R
>
> ObQuote:
>   "Veder�, si aver� si grossi li coglioni, come ha il re di Franza."
>   ("Let's see if I've got as much balls as the King of France!")
>   - Pope Julius II, 2 January 1511


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0858.23f1e5976dae32b0061a6e206aa73241.eml000066400000000000000000000117131444326627400310240ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 30 13:52:46 2002
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I attended the same conference, and was impressed by a few systems that
Jim didn't mention. In terms of CMS, the following all had apparently
been used in some fairly large implementations and looked like some
pretty strong competition to commercial systems:
- Midgard, http://www.midgard-project.org/ , a PHP-based content
management framework that with other programs combines to be a full CMS
- Redhat CCM CMS, Java-based: http://www.example.com/software/ccm/cms/
- OpenCMS, Java-based: http://www.opencms.org

There was agreement that usability has not generally been an open source
strength, but both Plone and Xopus represented some real movement
towards improving that situation.

I was impressed by the spectrum of perspectives on XML. Some took for
granted that XSLT was relevant to content management, others took it
just as for granted that XSLT was irrelevant and seemed happy to ignore
XML almost completely. 

I attended realizing that "content management" is generally used to
apply to *Web* content management, but I was still a bit shocked how
completely out of scope document management was (almost no consideration
of the potential print/PDF dimension to content other than the
occasional "...and you can use FOP to make PDF" as if that was
functional): this seems more the case in open source content management
than in commercial content management, and probably makes XML easier to
ignore (if HTML is the be-all and end-all of the output...).

The honesty was refreshing, Phil Suh complained about the state of
current tools (both open source and commercial), and I wish I'd written
down what he said, something like "it sucks so extremely, it sucks so
widely, and it is so generally sucking, that it seems sometimes there is
no hope." For a moment there was contemplation that perhaps commercial
systems scaled so well that the commercial "big boys" were really much
more functional than open source, until someone pointed out, "OK, take
some average blog software, spend $500,000 on the rollout... it'll scale
pretty well." Another quote (citing Brendan Quinn): "content management
problems are either trivial or impossible."

Mac OS X is getting popular, of the laptops there it was an even 1/3
each of Mac, Linux, Windows.

I am sure it wasn't news to Jim, but I can't wait to try Subversion, a
CVS replacement that supports some of the newer features of WebDAV:
http://subversion.tigris.org/

I'm also eager to try Xopus, I hope the developers make it back home
safely, they said they'd only been in America four days but were already
homeless...

Max



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0859.c5de7d55c638b365941e5077d598ff6a.eml000066400000000000000000000124601444326627400311670ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 30 13:52:48 2002
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From: Gregory Alan Bolcer 
Subject: EBusiness Webforms: cluetrain has left the station
To: FoRK 
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What's wrong with doing business over the Web?  Web forms.  There's
promising replacements forms, but this is the current state of the
industry:

 o You find something that you want to fill out.  It's a partnership form,
   a signup for a Web seminar, a request for more information, anything.
 o You start wasting time typing in all those stupid fields and spend
   about 10 minutes going through all their stupid qualification hoops
   just to get a small piece of information , whitepaper, or a callback
   when halfway through, you start to wonder if it's really worth your
   time to forever be stuck on their stupid prospect list. 
 o Pull down tags are never put in order of use instead of alphabetized.
   I was on a site just now that had every single country in the world
   listed; the selection of your country was absolutely critical for you
   to hit submit, but due to the layout, the "more>" tag on the second
   row was offscreen so it was impossible to select any country except
   about two dozen third world countries. 
 o Even worse, ever time you hit submit, all forms based things complain
   about using the universal country phone number format and will cause
   you to re-enter dashes instead of dots.
 o When you get something that's not entered right, you will go back and
   enter it right, but then some other field or most likely pulldown will
   automatically get reset to the default value so that you will have to
   go back and resent that freaking thing too.  Finally after all combinations
   of all pulldowns, you may get a successful submit.
 o You wait freaking forever just to get a confirmation.  
 o Sometimes, like today, you won't be able to ever submit anything due
   to it being impossible to ever submit a valid set of information that
   is internally non-conflicting according to whatever fhead wrote their
   forms submission.

What's wrong with this picture?  The company is screwing you by wasting
your time enforcing their data collection standards on you.  I'm sure there's
someone in that company that would be willing to accept "US", "U.S", "USA"
"United States", "U of A", "America", etc. and would know exactly which
freaking country the interested party was from instead of forcing them
to waste even more time playing Web form geography.  

I'm starting to see the light of Passport.  You want more information?  Hit
this passport button.  Voila.  IE6 and Netscape 6,7 have pre-forms sutff,
but I always turn it off because you never know when there's that one field
that you don't want to submit to the person you are submitting to that 
automatically gets sent, i.e. the privacy stuff is well beyond the 
average user who will get screwed on privacy stuff.  

So, if crappy forms-based submission is the state of practice for
business enablement on the Web, I can't see this whole data submission
and hurry up and wait for us to get back to you business process as
working all that well.


Greg


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0860.891fbb986b6531d3390a1e9035d571e1.eml000066400000000000000000000136611444326627400307740ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 30 13:52:49 2002
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From: Chris Haun 
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To: Gregory Alan Bolcer 
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Subject: Re: EBusiness Webforms: cluetrain has left the station
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I'll agree that webforms are a pain in the ass, however it would seem to 
me that the problem with passport is the same one you noted with the 
autoform function, providing more info than you want to.  That and some 
entity would be holding the passport info, thus have all that data in the 
first place.
Personally i'd never trust them not to at least use it internally to 
market to me, if not sell/rent out.  Just think of the ability 
they'd have to build a profile for you since everything you went to was 
tracked to you.  And thats just the marketing side of it.

Chris



On Sat, 28 Sep 2002, Gregory Alan Bolcer wrote:

> What's wrong with doing business over the Web?  Web forms.  There's
> promising replacements forms, but this is the current state of the
> industry:
> 
>  o You find something that you want to fill out.  It's a partnership form,
>    a signup for a Web seminar, a request for more information, anything.
>  o You start wasting time typing in all those stupid fields and spend
>    about 10 minutes going through all their stupid qualification hoops
>    just to get a small piece of information , whitepaper, or a callback
>    when halfway through, you start to wonder if it's really worth your
>    time to forever be stuck on their stupid prospect list. 
>  o Pull down tags are never put in order of use instead of alphabetized.
>    I was on a site just now that had every single country in the world
>    listed; the selection of your country was absolutely critical for you
>    to hit submit, but due to the layout, the "more>" tag on the second
>    row was offscreen so it was impossible to select any country except
>    about two dozen third world countries. 
>  o Even worse, ever time you hit submit, all forms based things complain
>    about using the universal country phone number format and will cause
>    you to re-enter dashes instead of dots.
>  o When you get something that's not entered right, you will go back and
>    enter it right, but then some other field or most likely pulldown will
>    automatically get reset to the default value so that you will have to
>    go back and resent that freaking thing too.  Finally after all combinations
>    of all pulldowns, you may get a successful submit.
>  o You wait freaking forever just to get a confirmation.  
>  o Sometimes, like today, you won't be able to ever submit anything due
>    to it being impossible to ever submit a valid set of information that
>    is internally non-conflicting according to whatever fhead wrote their
>    forms submission.
> 
> What's wrong with this picture?  The company is screwing you by wasting
> your time enforcing their data collection standards on you.  I'm sure there's
> someone in that company that would be willing to accept "US", "U.S", "USA"
> "United States", "U of A", "America", etc. and would know exactly which
> freaking country the interested party was from instead of forcing them
> to waste even more time playing Web form geography.  
> 
> I'm starting to see the light of Passport.  You want more information?  Hit
> this passport button.  Voila.  IE6 and Netscape 6,7 have pre-forms sutff,
> but I always turn it off because you never know when there's that one field
> that you don't want to submit to the person you are submitting to that 
> automatically gets sent, i.e. the privacy stuff is well beyond the 
> average user who will get screwed on privacy stuff.  
> 
> So, if crappy forms-based submission is the state of practice for
> business enablement on the Web, I can't see this whole data submission
> and hurry up and wait for us to get back to you business process as
> working all that well.
> 
> 
> Greg
> 


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0861.6d286bd240426caa250c29aae36f9eab.eml000066400000000000000000000114251444326627400313260ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 30 13:52:50 2002
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To: gbolcer@endeavors.com
Cc: FoRK 
Subject: Re: EBusiness Webforms: cluetrain has left the station
References: <3D95C839.8E8701FD@endeavors.com>
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
X-Home-Page: http://www.teledyn.com
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>>>>> "G" == Gregory Alan Bolcer  writes:

    G> So, if crappy forms-based submission is the state of practice
    G> for business enablement on the Web, I can't see this whole data
    G> submission and hurry up and wait for us to get back to you
    G> business process as working all that well.

I love this business.  If a bridge falls over, the architect or the
engineer is in court the next day, but when a /software/ bridge falls
over, we blame the air beneath it, or the phase of the moon, or
(more often) the people walking on it.

   "What idiots!  Don't they know you're supposed to walk on the
   /balls/ of your feet, not lead with your heels?  Didn't they read
   the blueprints?  They were posted in the town hall.  Any idiot
   would know the 0.75Hz heel cadence would pop rivets on the
   structural supports!  Geez. Pedestrians are /so/ stupid."

Ours is the /only/ industry that can hold itself 100% un-responsible
for any and all sloth-inflicted doom, and the only industry which can
/also/ get away with feeding this myth of infallibility unquestioned
to the media, to investors, to students and to each other.

   "God I hate telephones.  Telephones are stupid. I used a telephone
   to, like, call my broker yesterday, and y'know, just /after/ I'd
   ordered those 2000 shares of Nortel ..."

You just gotta love a mass-delusion like that.

Although it's like a total shock to 99.999% (5nines) of all the
employed website designers out there, the truth is webforms /can/
accept "U.S. of A" as a country.  Incredible, but true.  Web forms can
also accept /multiple/ or even /free-form/ telephone numbers and can
even be partitioned into manageable steps. All this can also be done
without selling exclusive rights to your wallet to the World's
Second-Richest Corporation (assuming Cisco is still #1) and vendor
locking your business into their "small transaction fee" tithe.

Of course, try and tell one of those 5-niners that and they'll get all
defensive, black list you as a sh*t disturber and undermine your
reputation with the boss...  not that I'm speaking first-hand or
anything ;)

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
  "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


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Subject: Re: EBusiness Webforms: cluetrain has left the station
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
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Cc: gbolcer@endeavors.com, FoRK 
To: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
From: Bill Humphries 
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On Saturday, September 28, 2002, at 12:54 PM, Gary Lawrence Murphy 
wrote:

> Although it's like a total shock to 99.999% (5nines) of all the
> employed website designers out there, the truth is webforms /can/
> accept "U.S. of A" as a country.  Incredible, but true.  Web forms can
> also accept /multiple/ or even /free-form/ telephone numbers and can
> even be partitioned into manageable steps. All this can also be done
> without selling exclusive rights to your wallet to the World's
> Second-Richest Corporation (assuming Cisco is still #1) and vendor
> locking your business into their "small transaction fee" tithe.

Yes, but this is what normally happened:

Engineer: we can put an input validator/parser on the backend to do 
that.

Designer: there's a JavaScript library that can do some of the 
pre-validation.

Creative Director: I want it in blue, with a zooming logo.

Engineer: can we get to that later, we need to meet functional specs.

Creative Director: You *don't* understand. *I* want it in blue.

Creative Director: Oh, and the site launches this Friday because I sent 
out a press release about our new strategic partnership with HypeCorp.

Designer: fine, we'll just put a list of countries in a drop down.

Engineer: and we can validate against that list.

Creative Director: I don't give a shit. As long as it's in blue. And 
has a link to my press release.

----
Bill Humphries 
http://www.whump.com/moreLikeThis/


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0863.3de076f8a3b5f011d630dbefbd371694.eml000066400000000000000000000060331444326627400312600ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 30 13:53:23 2002
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At 08:18 AM 9/28/02 -0700, Gregory Alan Bolcer wrote:

>IE6 and Netscape 6,7 have pre-forms sutff,
>but I always turn it off because you never know when there's that one field
>that you don't want to submit to the person you are submitting to that
>automatically gets sent, i.e. the privacy stuff is well beyond the
>average user who will get screwed on privacy stuff.

Opera 6 has an interesting way around this. You just right-click on each 
field and bring up a choice of prefilled local information that you can 
then choose to enter into the form.

Now if they can just fix the $@!$@$# irritating memory problems that Opera6 
has....Hakon, you listening?

Udhay

-- 
((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0864.5814f29d8b4689b925cc4179392bd341.eml000066400000000000000000000062031444326627400307310ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 30 13:52:55 2002
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To: Bill Humphries 
Cc: gbolcer@endeavors.com, FoRK 
Subject: Re: EBusiness Webforms: cluetrain has left the station
References: <774F0112-D32A-11D6-8BB1-003065F62CD6@whump.com>
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
X-Home-Page: http://www.teledyn.com
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>>>>> "B" == Bill Humphries  writes:

    B> Yes, but this is what normally happened:

    B> Engineer: we can put ...
    B> Designer: there's a ...
    B> Creative Director: I want it in blue ...


Yup, seen it happen oodles of times, only all three of those folks
are one and the same person.  The fourth is the business manager
who says "whatever, so long as you do it on your own time"

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
  "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0865.4b2110ced3bc59bb5684c5ecfa980dd1.eml000066400000000000000000000063151444326627400314210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 30 13:53:28 2002
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From: Elias 
Subject: Content management for MP3s
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Dear flatware,

I'm about to undertake a massive project to index/catalog well over one 
thousand CDs that have been ripped to MP3 and set up a server to stream 
them to different rooms in the house. (Yes, I own them all, no I'm not 
broadcasting them to the 'net.) Can anyone give me some recommendations 
as to what (free? opensource?) software is best suited for this task? I 
know there are a few FoRKs out there who have tackled this problem before...

I'd like to be able to dynamically generate play lists from queries like 
"Jazz released between 1950 and 1960" or "Artist such and such between 
these dates" or "Just these artists" or "Just this genre" - you get the 
idea. In addition to having multiple streams that I can tune in to (a la 
DMX), I'd like to be able to browse the database through a web interface 
from other computers in the house and pull specific music down to 
wherever I am.


Thanks,
Elias


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0866.e437291998aab90004d6cde6eb85ea18.eml000066400000000000000000000113721444326627400312220ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 30 13:53:27 2002
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From: Gregory Alan Bolcer 
Subject: Re: EBusiness Webforms: cluetrain has left the station
To: FoRK 
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Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:
> 
> Although it's like a total shock to 99.999% (5nines) of all the
> employed website designers out there, the truth is webforms /can/
> accept "U.S. of A" as a country.  Incredible, but true.  Web forms can
> also accept /multiple/ or even /free-form/ telephone numbers and can
> even be partitioned into manageable steps. All this can also be done
> without selling exclusive rights to your wallet to the World's
> Second-Richest Corporation (assuming Cisco is still #1) and vendor
> locking your business into their "small transaction fee" tithe.


Ah, but you've just gotten to the crux of the
situation.  There's good design and bad design. 
There's good testing and bad testing.  The problem
is, anyone can design a good Web form, but nobody
does.  I think "best practices" hasn't caught up
on main street Web enablement yet.  There's some
really great packages on how to do this stuff and
in fact the usability people knew that Web forms needed
to be fixed 5 years ago, so that's why we got XForms
and  XHTML.  You can shoot yourself in the foot and
people usually do.  What the problem is, they don't
even recognize that they're gimpy--ever.  They just
keeping trundling along making a mess of everything
assured in their job security that they can build
Web forms without even caring if they can be
used or not beyond their test machine.

If you had a piece of software and a security warning
came out 5 years ago on it, would you run that software?
Wouldn't you have patched or upgraded something so fundamentally
broken 4 years and 11 months ago?  What I want to know
is why would someone use Web forms best practices from
5 years ago?  I mean you can get a college degree in that
time.  Imagine if the next version of Microsoft Windows
or Red Hat Linux forced you to use a tiled window
manager?  Sure, tiled windows were the best we had for
a brief period of time, but they are completely useless
except for some terminal based replacement applications. 

The bottom line is, if you can't get across the
bridge, then it's broken regardless of whose fault
it really is, and it's the business that 
needs to take responsibility as they are the ones that
wanted to put the bridge there in the first place. 


Greg


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0867.bd08bc5bff86a732422082ed7861416b.eml000066400000000000000000000054651444326627400311370ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 30 13:53:30 2002
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From: Udhay Shankar N 
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At 09:02 AM 9/29/02 -0700, Elias wrote:

>I'm about to undertake a massive project to index/catalog well over one 
>thousand CDs that have been ripped to MP3 and set up a server to stream 
>them to different rooms in the house. (Yes, I own them all, no I'm not 
>broadcasting them to the 'net.) Can anyone give me some recommendations as 
>to what (free? opensource?) software is best suited for this task? I know 
>there are a few FoRKs out there who have tackled this problem before...

See if http://www.jwz.org/gronk/ meets your needs.

Udhay

-- 
((Udhay Shankar N)) ((udhay @ pobox.com)) ((www.digeratus.com))


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0868.a7f0eab61f87e815b082348fe914b86f.eml000066400000000000000000000046371444326627400312400ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 30 13:53:59 2002
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http://www.post-gazette.com/columnists/20020905brian5.asp



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This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by khare@alumni.caltech.edu.


Another reminder that the moral writ of intellectual property is -- and ought to --be more limited than real property. Private money paid for these bits, but expropriation may be fairer for IP than real-P.

Rohit

khare@alumni.caltech.edu


Vast Detail on Towers' Collapse May Be Sealed

September 30, 2002
By JAMES GLANZ and ERIC LIPTON 




 

What is almost certainly the most sophisticated and
complete understanding of exactly how and why the twin
towers of the World Trade Center fell has been compiled as
part of a largely secret proceeding in federal court in
Lower Manhattan. 

Amassed during the initial stages of a complicated
insurance lawsuit involving the trade center, the
confidential material contains data and expert analysis
developed by some of the nation's most respected
engineering minds. It includes computer calculations that
have produced a series of three-dimensional images of the
crumpled insides of the towers after the planes hit,
helping to identify the sequence of failures that led to
the collapses. 

An immense body of documentary evidence, like maps of the
debris piles, rare photos and videos, has also been
accumulated in a collection that far outstrips what
government analysts have been able to put together as they
struggle to answer the scientifically complex and
emotionally charged questions surrounding the deadly
failures of the buildings. 

But everyone from structural engineers to relatives of
victims fear that the closely held information, which
includes the analysis and the possible answers that
families and engineers around the world have craved, may
remain buried in sealed files, or even destroyed. 

Bound by confidentiality agreements with their clients, the
experts cannot disclose their findings publicly as they
wait for the case to play out. Such restrictions are
typical during the discovery phase of litigation. And as it
now stands, the judge in the case - who has agreed that
certain material can remain secret for the time being - has
approved standard legal arrangements that, should the
lawsuit be settled before trial, could cause crucial
material generated by the competing sides to be withheld. 

"We're obviously in favor of releasing the information, but
we can't until we're told what to do," said Matthys Levy,
an engineer and founding partner at Weidlinger Associates,
who is a consultant in the case and the author of "Why
Buildings Fall Down: How Structures Fail" (Norton, 2nd
edition, 2002). 

"Let's just say we understand the mechanics of the whole
process" of the collapse, Mr. Levy said. 

Monica Gabrielle, who lost her husband, Richard, when the
south tower fell and who is a member of the Skyscraper
Safety Campaign, said the information should be disclosed.
"If they have answers and are not going to share them, I
would be devastated," Mrs. Gabrielle said. "They have a
moral obligation." 

The lawsuit that has generated the information involves
Larry A. Silverstein, whose companies own a lease on the
trade center property, and a consortium of insurance
companies. Mr. Silverstein maintains that each jetliner
that hit the towers constituted a separate terrorist
attack, entitling him to some $7 billion, rather than half
that amount, as the insurance companies say. 

As both sides have prepared their arguments, they have
spent hundreds of thousands of dollars acquiring expert
opinion about exactly what happened to the towers. 

Dean Davison, a spokesman for Industrial Risk Insurers of
Hartford, one of the insurance companies in the suit, said
of the findings, "There are some confidentiality agreements
that are keeping those out of the public domain today." He
conceded that differing opinions among the more than 20
insurers on his side of the case could complicate any
release of the material. 

As for his own company, whose consultants alone have
produced more than 1,700 pages of analysis and thousands of
diagrams and photographs, Mr. Davison said every attempt
would be made to give the material eventually to "public
authorities and investigative teams." 

Still, some of that analysis relies on information like
blueprints and building records from other sources, like
the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which built
and owned the trade center and supports Mr. Silverstein in
the suit. Mr. Davison said he was uncertain how the
differing origins of the material would influence his
company's ability to release information. 

In a statement, the Port Authority said access to documents
would be "decided on a case-by-case basis consistent with
applicable law and policy," adding that it would cooperate
with "federal investigations." 

The fate of the research is particularly critical to
resolve unanswered questions about why the towers fell,
given the dissatisfaction with the first major inquiry into
the buildings' collapse. That investigation, led by the
Federal Emergency Management Agency, was plagued by few
resources, a lack of access to crucial information like
building plans, and infighting among experts and officials.
A new federal investigation intended to remedy those
failings has just begun at the National Institute of
Standards and Technology, or NIST, an agency that has
studied many building disasters. 

Officials with NIST have said it could take years to make
final determinations and recommendations for other
buildings, a process they now acknowledge might be speeded
up with access to the analysis done by the consultants on
the lawsuit. 

Gerald McKelvey, a spokesman for Mr. Silverstein, said of
the real estate executive's own heavily financed
investigative work, "We decline to comment other than to
say that Silverstein is cooperating fully with the NIST
investigation." A spokesman for the agency confirmed it was
in discussions with Mr. Silverstein on the material, but
said no transfer had taken place. 

With no shortage of money or expertise, investigations by
both sides in the legal case have produced a startling body
of science and theory, some of it relevant not only to the
trade center disaster but to other skyscrapers as well. 

"The work should be available to other investigators," said
Ramon Gilsanz, a structural engineer and managing partner
at Gilsanz Murray Steficek, who was a member of the earlier
inquiry. "It could be used to build better buildings in the
future." 

Legal experts say confidentiality arrangements like the one
governing the material can lead to a variety of outcomes,
from full or partial disclosure to destruction of such
information. In some cases, litigants who paid for the
reports may make them public themselves. Or they may ask to
have them sealed forever. 
"It is not unusual for one party or another to try to keep
some of those documents secret for one reason or another,
some legitimate, some not," said Lee Levine, a First
Amendment lawyer at Levine Sullivan & Koch in Washington. 

Mr. Levine said that because of the presumed value of the
information, the court might look favorably on requests to
make it public. But the uncertainty over the fate of the
material is unnerving to many people, especially experts
who believe that only a complete review of the evidence -
not piecemeal disclosures by litigants eager to protect
their own interests - could lead to an advance in the
federal investigation of the trade center. 

"It's important for this to get presented and published and
subjected to some scrutiny," said Dr. John Osteraas,
director of civil engineering practice at Exponent Failure
Analysis in Menlo Park, Calif., and a consultant on the
case, "because then the general engineering community can
sort it out." 

The scope of the investigation behind the scenes is vast by
any measure. Mr. Levy and his colleagues at Weidlinger
Associates, hired by Silverstein Properties, have called
upon powerful computer programs, originally developed with
the Pentagon for classified research, to create a model of
the Sept. 11 attack from beginning to end. 

The result is a compilation of three-dimensional images of
the severed exterior columns, smashed floor and damaged
core of the towers, beginning with the impacts and
proceeding up to the moments of collapse. Those images -
which Mr. Levy is not allowed to release - have helped
pinpoint the structural failures. 

The FEMA investigators did not have access to such computer
modeling. Nor did the FEMA team have unfettered access to
the trade center site, with all its evidence, in the weeks
immediately after the attacks. But no such constraints
hampered engineers at LZA/Thornton-Tomasetti, brought to
the site for emergency work beginning on the afternoon of
Sept. 11. Daniel A. Cuoco, the company president and a
consultant to Silverstein Properties on the case, said he
had assembled detailed maps of the blazing debris at ground
zero in models that perhaps contain further clues about how
the towers fell. 

Though the FEMA team could not determine "where things
actually fell," Mr. Cuoco said, "we've indicated the
specific locations." 

Mr. Cuoco said he could not reveal any additional details
of the findings. Nor would Mr. Osteraas discuss the details
of computer calculations his company has done on the spread
of fires in large buildings like the twin towers. Mr.
Osteraas has also compiled an extensive archive of
photographs and videos of the towers that day, some of
which he believes have not been available to other
investigators. 

And the investigation has not limited itself to computers
and documentary evidence. For months, experiments in wind
tunnels in the United States and Canada have been examining
the aerodynamics that fed the flames that day and stressed
the weakening structures. 

Jack Cermak, president of Cermak Peterka Peterson in Fort
Collins, Colo., was retained by the insurance companies but
had previously performed wind-tunnel studies for the
original design of the twin towers nearly 40 years ago. For
the legal case, Dr. Cermak said, "we've done probably more
detailed measurements than in the original design." 

"The data that have been acquired are very valuable in
themselves for understanding how wind and buildings
interact," Dr. Cermak said. "Some of the information may be
valuable for the litigation," he said, adding, "I think
I've told you all I can."

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/30/nyregion/30TOWE.html?ex=1034388663&ei=1&en=0d3143a997e5e2e1



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help@nytimes.com.  

Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company


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From: Gregory Alan Bolcer 
Subject: Re: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
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Michael wrote:
> 
> http://www.post-gazette.com/columnists/20020905brian5.asp


I thought this nekkid URL was going to be about the
infringement of 1st amendment rights for broadcasters
and proposed campaign finanice restrictions preventing them
from making money on advertisements that are deemed
thinly veiled campaign contributions by some arbitrary
government board.  As it was posted to "discussion" I
thought there'd be some.

Instead it's a Post-Gazette column by Brian O'Neill
lamenting the fact that some people know how to
fill out a permit so that they can take advantage
of their right to peaceable assembly.  Obviously
he's poking fun at the idea that specific groups
get specific "zones" and that it's not up to the
police to decide what messages and signs get put into
what zones to most expediently keep order.  

The problem is that politics have gotten so muddied
nowadays, that shouting down and unpeaceably disrupting
political rallies that you don't agree with has become
common practice.  The courts have constantly ruled
that there are some restrictions on the first amendment.
They teach you that your very first year of law school.

I think that given the information as laid out by the story,
Mr. O'Neill has confused free speech with action.  Free
speech or even protected speech as practiced by almost 
every American seems to involve the ability to communicate
an idea to an unknown audience.  Action involves directing
a specific comment to a specific well-defined individual or audience
that has immediate, harmful, and sometimes physical 
effects that is easily forseeable by any reasonable person. 

I think Bill Neel of Butler needs to go back to school
as obviously he must have been sleeping in his civics
class or else they didn't teach civics in mini-guantanamo, OH
65 years ago.

Greg


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Owen Byrne wrote:

> What a load of crap. Politics are somehow more muddy now?  I'd say that
> its considerably
> clearer - the vast majority of people feel disenfranchised, and the
> common practice of
> putting protestors in boxes is done usually to hide them from TV
> cameras, visiting dignitaries,
> etc, further exacerbating those feelings.
> "Unpeaceably disrupting political rallies" is now usually done by police
> with riot gear and pepper spray.
> 
> We had a good one here a month or so ago - a few people peaceably
> strayed from the permit area,
> which was nearly a mile from the site of the meeting of finance
> ministers held here (the motorcade drove
> by it for about 10 seconds), and were immediately gassed,  beaten and
> arrested. Not very muddied at all.


What does that exactly have to do with the statement that
distruption of peacable political assembly has become
a common practice disruption tool?  It's an observation
not a judgement, comment, approval.  You've focused on the
word "muddy" to use it in a different context than the one
I posted.

Maybe the distinction I was trying to make was too subtle and
I was trying to be too clever with my writing this morning.
Let me summarize the important parts of my post for you: I
have a premise that there is a difference between free and protected
speech and action.  I think O'Neill on his soapbox doesn't
understand the distinction.

All better?  

Greg


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>>
>> http://www.post-gazette.com/columnists/20020905brian5.asp


GAB> I thought this nekkid URL was going to be about the
GAB> infringement of 1st amendment rights for broadcasters
GAB> and proposed campaign finanice restrictions preventing them
GAB> from making money on advertisements that are deemed
GAB> thinly veiled campaign contributions by some arbitrary
GAB> government board.  As it was posted to "discussion" I
GAB> thought there'd be some.

GAB> Instead it's a Post-Gazette column by Brian O'Neill
GAB> lamenting the fact that some people know how to
GAB> fill out a permit so that they can take advantage
GAB> of their right to peaceable assembly.  Obviously
GAB> he's poking fun at the idea that specific groups
GAB> get specific "zones" and that it's not up to the
GAB> police to decide what messages and signs get put into
GAB> what zones to most expediently keep order.  

Oh thats right Greg.  Because was explicitly clear that the pro-Bush
folks went out and did the permit dance.   So where in the article is
this again?

Lets get something straight here.   This -is- a First Amendment issue.
Public streets, provided one isn't blocking traffic, generally tend to
be sorta ok, at least from my last interpretation of Con Law a few
years ago (I'll feign ignorance wrt the fact that laws may have
changed, and the specific facts in this case are weak).    IF this guy
_was_ merely holding a sign (which it seems was the case for all the
pro-bush folks) he did nothing wrong.  He certainly didn't do enough
of a wrong to warrant a disorderly conduct charge.

I'll play with your perspective though.   Lets assume a few things.
If I walk into the city office and tell them I want to peacably
assemble against Bush, do you think they'll give me a permit?
Probably not.   So I lie.   Then the cop does what happened in this
scenario.  HE walks up, checks my permit and finds out that I
falsified my statement to get this said document.   He arrests me.
End of story.

GAB> The problem is that politics have gotten so muddied
GAB> nowadays, that shouting down and unpeaceably disrupting
GAB> political rallies that you don't agree with has become
GAB> common practice.  The courts have constantly ruled
GAB> that there are some restrictions on the first amendment.
GAB> They teach you that your very first year of law school.

I'll agree with Owen on this one.  Muddied my ass.  How hard is it to
chose between a Republocrat or a Demipublican?   Not very.  Shouting
down has grown to become the answer because the government, over a
span of years, and with the help of the Courts -has- limited the
rights we have as citizens under the First Amendment.    If you
question the policy about terrorism, or drugs, or Iraq, or Bush in
general, you're aiding terrorism.   If you challenge the beliefs of
the folks attending the various shadowy G8 conferences, you're an
anarchist, and you're herded off to a 'designated protest spot' miles
away from anything.   Part of the point of speech is to be -heard-.
I can scream on my soapbox in the forest somewhere, and while thats
speech, its not effective speech.  People are screaming and shouting
over the political figures because they cannot be  heard in any other
way.




GAB> I think that given the information as laid out by the story,
GAB> Mr. O'Neill has confused free speech with action.  Free
GAB> speech or even protected speech as practiced by almost 
GAB> every American seems to involve the ability to communicate
GAB> an idea to an unknown audience.  Action involves directing
GAB> a specific comment to a specific well-defined individual or audience
GAB> that has immediate, harmful, and sometimes physical 
GAB> effects that is easily forseeable by any reasonable person. 

Getting back to my original point.  How do you communicate  an idea to
an unknown audience, if you're miles from where the audience is?   How
do you bypass the rules for being -miles- away from the audience
without violating the rules of the regime?  I don't think Mr. Nell was
throwing pies at Bush.  A sign, the last time I checked, didn't cause
physical injury, or even emotional harm.  If I remember Cohen v.
California, 403 U.S. 15 (1971), its not the individual speaking that
has the requirement to desist, but the individual listening who has
the option to leave.


Just my .02, while its still considered legal.




-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                            mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


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From: "Bill Stoddard" 
To: "Fork@Xent.Com" 
Subject: RE: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
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> The problem is that politics have gotten so muddied
> nowadays, that shouting down and unpeaceably disrupting
> political rallies that you don't agree with has become
> common practice.  The courts have constantly ruled
> that there are some restrictions on the first amendment.
> They teach you that your very first year of law school.
>

I don't think politics is any muddier. People are becoming increasingly
unethical. It's a breakdown in home training.

Bill


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Gregory Alan Bolcer wrote:

>at zones to most expediently keep order.  
>
>The problem is that politics have gotten so muddied
>nowadays, that shouting down and unpeaceably disrupting
>political rallies that you don't agree with has become
>common practice.  The courts have constantly ruled
>that there are some restrictions on the first amendment.
>They teach you that your very first year of law school.
>  
>
What a load of crap. Politics are somehow more muddy now?  I'd say that 
its considerably
clearer - the vast majority of people feel disenfranchised, and the 
common practice of
putting protestors in boxes is done usually to hide them from TV 
cameras, visiting dignitaries,
etc, further exacerbating those feelings.
"Unpeaceably disrupting political rallies" is now usually done by police 
with riot gear and pepper spray.

We had a good one here a month or so ago - a few people peaceably 
strayed from the permit area,
which was nearly a mile from the site of the meeting of finance 
ministers held here (the motorcade drove
by it for about 10 seconds), and were immediately gassed,  beaten and 
arrested. Not very muddied at all.

Owen










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Looks useful. Hopefully, they'll put up some more material soon.

	http://ocw.mit.edu/global/all-courses.html



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From: "Bill Stoddard" 
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Subject: RE: Re[2]: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
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>
> GAB> The problem is that politics have gotten so muddied
> GAB> nowadays, that shouting down and unpeaceably disrupting
> GAB> political rallies that you don't agree with has become
> GAB> common practice.  The courts have constantly ruled
> GAB> that there are some restrictions on the first amendment.
> GAB> They teach you that your very first year of law school.
>
> I'll agree with Owen on this one.  Muddied my ass.  How hard is it to
> chose between a Republocrat or a Demipublican?   Not very.  Shouting
> down has grown to become the answer because the government, over a
> span of years, and with the help of the Courts -has- limited the
> rights we have as citizens under the First Amendment.

Wishful thinking. People are just bigger dickheads now. Culture is changing
and it is becoming acceptable to get in peoples face and shout them down
when you disagree with them.  The people that do this are NOT
disenfranchised. They
get their rocks off on being disagreeable assholes. The act of protesting is
more important than the actual issue being protested for most of these
people.

> question the policy about terrorism, or drugs, or Iraq, or Bush in
> general, you're aiding terrorism.   If you challenge the beliefs of
> the folks attending the various shadowy G8 conferences, you're an
> anarchist, and you're herded off to a 'designated protest spot' miles
> away from anything.   Part of the point of speech is to be -heard-.
> I can scream on my soapbox in the forest somewhere, and while thats
> speech, its not effective speech.  People are screaming and shouting
> over the political figures because they cannot be  heard in any other
> way.

And where does this end? Shouting down speakers is an obviously stupid
tactic if they are -really- interested in advocating change. Are they such
clueless social morons that they don't see this or are they just interested
in stroking their pathetic egos?

OBTW, 'clueless social moron syndrom' does not have political boundaries.

Bill


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Bill Stoddard wrote:
> 
> Wishful thinking. People are just bigger dickheads now.

nah, they've always been this way.

> Culture is changing and it is becoming acceptable to get in
> peoples face and shout them down when you disagree with them.

culture changing, yeh.  'those who fail to learn from history..'
what does it tell you when a market chain is named 'bread and circus'
and no-one twigs?
-- 
#ken	P-)}

Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini  http://Golux.Com/coar/
Author, developer, opinionist      http://Apache-Server.Com/

"Millennium hand and shrimp!"


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>>
>>Wishful thinking. People are just bigger dickheads now. Culture is changing
>>and it is becoming acceptable to get in peoples face and shout them down
>>when you disagree with them.  The people that do this are NOT
>>disenfranchised. They
>>get their rocks off on being disagreeable assholes. The act of protesting is
>>more important than the actual issue being protested for most of these
>>people.
>>  
>>
OB> In my experience, this is classic "American" behaviour, and I don't 
OB> think its on the increase outside of the US of A.
OB> I am willing to accept the premise that Americans are bigger dickheads 
OB> then they used to be.

*sighs*

Right.  Because Americans are the only people capable of being
assholes.  Shit.  History keeps fucking up when they keep mentioning
all the historical examples of dickhead-ness that have proceeded the
US.

After all, we're the only country who gets unruly when it comes to
issues.   Thats why its always just the Americans at those crazy WTO
meetings...  Right, Owen?



-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                            mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


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Subject: Re: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
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bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:

>>>Wishful thinking. People are just bigger dickheads now. Culture is changing
>>>and it is becoming acceptable to get in peoples face and shout them down
>>>when you disagree with them.  The people that do this are NOT
>>>disenfranchised. They
>>>get their rocks off on being disagreeable assholes. The act of protesting is
>>>more important than the actual issue being protested for most of these
>>>people.
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>OB> In my experience, this is classic "American" behaviour, and I don't 
>OB> think its on the increase outside of the US of A.
>OB> I am willing to accept the premise that Americans are bigger dickheads 
>OB> then they used to be.
>
>*sighs*
>
>Right.  Because Americans are the only people capable of being
>assholes.  Shit.  History keeps fucking up when they keep mentioning
>all the historical examples of dickhead-ness that have proceeded the
>US.
>
>After all, we're the only country who gets unruly when it comes to
>issues.   Thats why its always just the Americans at those crazy WTO
>meetings...  Right, Owen?
>
>
>
>  
>
A flippant remark that I will probably regret  - sure there's assholes 
everywhere. I just remember a lunch in Spain with
a semi-famous American - I think we had about 10 nationalities at the 
table, and he managed to insult each of them within
15 minutes. A historical perspective makes me think that empires - 
Roman, British, Russian, American, whatever - produce
 a larger proportion of assholes than subject nations (and are more 
likely to have them in positions of authority).
Owen







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Bill Stoddard wrote:

>>GAB> The problem is that politics have gotten so muddied
>>GAB> nowadays, that shouting down and unpeaceably disrupting
>>GAB> political rallies that you don't agree with has become
>>GAB> common practice.  The courts have constantly ruled
>>GAB> that there are some restrictions on the first amendment.
>>GAB> They teach you that your very first year of law school.
>>
>>I'll agree with Owen on this one.  Muddied my ass.  How hard is it to
>>chose between a Republocrat or a Demipublican?   Not very.  Shouting
>>down has grown to become the answer because the government, over a
>>span of years, and with the help of the Courts -has- limited the
>>rights we have as citizens under the First Amendment.
>>    
>>
>
>Wishful thinking. People are just bigger dickheads now. Culture is changing
>and it is becoming acceptable to get in peoples face and shout them down
>when you disagree with them.  The people that do this are NOT
>disenfranchised. They
>get their rocks off on being disagreeable assholes. The act of protesting is
>more important than the actual issue being protested for most of these
>people.
>  
>
In my experience, this is classic "American" behaviour, and I don't 
think its on the increase outside of the US of A.
I am willing to accept the premise that Americans are bigger dickheads 
then they used to be.

Owen





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----- Original Message -----
From: 

> People are screaming and shouting over the political figures because
> they cannot be heard in any other way.
What, are they illiterate? Mute? What's their problem? If somebody stops
them from posting web pages, or printing newsletters, or talking on the
phone, or organizing their /own/ conference then that would be wrong.

I don't think free speech is a license to speak directly at and be in the
physical presence of any particular individual of your choosing - especially
when that individual is busy doing something else and isn't interested.


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Subject: Re: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
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On Mon, 2002-09-30 at 09:20, Owen Byrne wrote:
> In my experience, this is classic "American" behaviour, and I don't 
> think its on the increase outside of the US of A.


In my experience, this protest behavior is really only an issue in
"ultra-liberal" coastal cities, which is where I normally live.  It is
part of the culture and that behavior is viewed as acceptable.  

For comparison, contrast this with the character of the arguably more
serious protests against Federal government abuse in the inter-mountain
West.  They have a very different idea of what constitutes acceptable
protest practice.  Those protests remain largely civil and polite, if
heated and aggressive, and those involve a far greater percentage of the
local population.  And unlike 99% of the liberal coastal city protests
I've seen, the people protesting in the inter-mountain West are actually
facing immediate dire consequences from the activities they are
protesting and are strongly motivated to protest in a manner that gets
results.  Some of their tactics, such as the practice of many businesses
and restaurants in northern Nevada to not give service to anyone known
to be in the employ of the BLM and related agencies, have been very
effective at forcing dialog.  I don't recall anyone characterizing their
protests as impolite, rude, or violent, but then they have more to lose.


-James Rogers
 jamesr@best.com


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Hello Mr.,

Monday, September 30, 2002, 1:19:12 PM, you wrote:


MF> ----- Original Message -----
MF> From: 

>> People are screaming and shouting over the political figures because
>> they cannot be heard in any other way.
MF> What, are they illiterate? Mute? What's their problem? If somebody stops
MF> them from posting web pages, or printing newsletters, or talking on the
MF> phone, or organizing their /own/ conference then that would be wrong.

Perhaps /cannot be heard in any other way (period)/ was incorrect.
What I meant, was a time-specific occurence.  Sure, there are other
means outside of the circumstance of the occurence. BUt until we're
willing to eliminate the ability to speak in public -only- for the
side that doesn't agree with the political force, and make that part
of the 1st amendment, the parties -are- screaming and shouting over
political figures because they cannot be heard (to those figures) in
any other way.

MF> I don't think free speech is a license to speak directly at and be in the
MF> physical presence of any particular individual of your choosing - especially
MF> when that individual is busy doing something else and isn't interested.

Sure.  And that goes back to my second argument -- Cohen.   THey can
walk away.   NObody compells them to stand there, I'll agree fully.
But we still have a Constitutional right to speak out against
policies, actions and grievances.

Again.  If you want it another way, lets change the Constitution.



-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                            mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


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----- Original Message -----
From: 

> the parties -are- screaming and shouting over
> political figures because they cannot be heard (to those figures) in
> any other way.
The right to speak is not the same as the right to be heard by the audience
of the speakers choice.

Disruptive protests might be a means to create awareness - but that's a
pretty lame way to do it. If it truly is the only way, then I'm all for it,
but disruption for the sake of showing how committed the protesters are is
pretty weak.



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> >                                                ... webforms /can/
> > accept "U.S. of A" as a country.  Incredible, but true.  Web forms can
> > also accept /multiple/ or even /free-form/ telephone numbers ...

Are the people who use procrustean web
forms practices the same ones who don't
accept faxes?

When I *really* need to get something
done, instead of just idle surfing, I
call or fax.  Faxing, like a web form,
can be done 24x7; it allows me to give
all the (and only the) pertinent info
in a single place; it also provides a
self-journalled correspondence, which
means rollback is easy and replay is
even easier.

-Dave

>           Sure, tiled windows were the best we had for
> a brief period of time, but they are completely useless
> except for some terminal based replacement applications. 

I've been running a tiled (but somewhat
overlapped, yielding a horizontal stack)
window manager lately.  Like filling in
a web form, finding edges and shuffling
windows may seem productive, but I find
that having a window manager manage the
windows means I can concentrate on what
I want to do with their contents.

:::::::::

"dumb question: X client behind a firewall?"
> Back in my day, they didn't have ssh. Then again, back in my day,
> they didn't have firewalls.

Back in my day, when one changed computer
installations, email would be forwarded
as a courtesy.

Now, we seem to have swung so far in the
opposite direction that it makes sense to
ditch addresses every couple of years to
shed spam.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0886.a901020854d0c42772ba10e45212ee82.eml000066400000000000000000000060771444326627400306670ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep 30 21:38:15 2002
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Subject: Re: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
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> From: Owen Byrne 
> A flippant remark that I will probably regret  -
> sure there's assholes everywhere. I just remember a lunch in Spain with
> a semi-famous American - I think we had about 10 nationalities at the
> table, and he managed to insult each of them within
> 15 minutes. A historical perspective makes me think that empires -
> Roman, British, Russian, American, whatever - produce
>  a larger proportion of assholes than subject nations (and are more
> likely to have them in positions of authority).

Yep, those that win battles collect tthe spoils.  Lead and breed.  Want it to be
different?  Lead, don't whine.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0887.95cafbddb7fce33aada0e9d9bb329aa5.eml000066400000000000000000000061011444326627400320000ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Oct  1 10:41:35 2002
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Subject: Re: Internet Archive bookmobile
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On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Tom wrote:

> If the set passes around enough then more people have these works. the
> more folks  that have them now, while they are still legal to have, the
> likely they  will be left behind in the possible/probabale copyright
> chillout..and if  that doesnt happen then more folks than not will still

We will be getting BlackNet-like guerilla P2P pretty soon. Packaging it 
into wormcode with an initial userbase of a few 100 k to Mnodes gives you 
pretty bulletproof plausible deniability.

> have it for uses all manner of shades.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0888.a8cf27198dd5b8612b47fe3f8f19266f.eml000066400000000000000000000073051444326627400312500ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Oct  1 10:41:37 2002
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From: "Bill Stoddard" 
To: "Fork@Xent.Com" 
Subject: RE: Re[4]: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
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> MF> I don't think free speech is a license to speak directly at
> and be in the
> MF> physical presence of any particular individual of your
> choosing - especially
> MF> when that individual is busy doing something else and isn't
> interested.

Yep. I agree 100%

>
> Sure.  And that goes back to my second argument -- Cohen.   THey can
> walk away.   NObody compells them to stand there, I'll agree fully.
> But we still have a Constitutional right to speak out against
> policies, actions and grievances.
>
> Again.  If you want it another way, lets change the Constitution.

Huh?  Are you saying that whoever has the loudest voice gets to be heard?
Shouting down a public speaker could be considered a form of censorship. If
shouting down public speakers is 'protected' it is only a matter of time
before the people doing the shouting have their tactic used against
them -every single time they open their mouth-. The tactic is stupid and
non-productive and if generally used, will only result in chaos.  The tactic
is just stupid ego-bation at best, unless the goal is to generate chaos.
And humans whose goals and actions in life are to create chaos in society
should be locked up (provided you can accurately identify them, which is not
really possible anyway, but hey, this is my rant :-). IMHO.

Bill


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0889.19010d78004033878d170ffbcd3b1053.eml000066400000000000000000000137051444326627400306760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Oct  1 10:41:40 2002
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Subject: Re[6]: A moment of silence for the First Amendment (fwd)
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Hello Bill,

Monday, September 30, 2002, 5:46:11 PM, you wrote:


>> MF> I don't think free speech is a license to speak directly at
>> and be in the
>> MF> physical presence of any particular individual of your
>> choosing - especially
>> MF> when that individual is busy doing something else and isn't
>> interested.

BS> Yep. I agree 100%

>>
>> Sure.  And that goes back to my second argument -- Cohen.   THey can
>> walk away.   NObody compells them to stand there, I'll agree fully.
>> But we still have a Constitutional right to speak out against
>> policies, actions and grievances.
>>
>> Again.  If you want it another way, lets change the Constitution.

BS> Huh?  Are you saying that whoever has the loudest voice gets to be heard?
BS> Shouting down a public speaker could be considered a form of censorship. If
BS> shouting down public speakers is 'protected' it is only a matter of time
BS> before the people doing the shouting have their tactic used against
BS> them -every single time they open their mouth-. The tactic is stupid and
BS> non-productive and if generally used, will only result in chaos.  The tactic
BS> is just stupid ego-bation at best, unless the goal is to generate chaos.
BS> And humans whose goals and actions in life are to create chaos in society
BS> should be locked up (provided you can accurately identify them, which is not
BS> really possible anyway, but hey, this is my rant :-). IMHO.

BS> Bill


No offense or anything, but there's a difference between holding a
sign that doesn't agree with Bush and screaming at him.

My sole point, as far as the 1st Amendment goes is that there is more
to this game than just being an angry, liberal youth.  (Which is the
gross culmination of everyone's argument sofar)  The screaming isn't
the most effective method around.  I don't believe I argued that it
was.  But screaming is happening because the means to communicate to
the representatives involved are diminishing, at least as far as the
people doing the screaming are concerned.   For the record, I don't
support the screamers in organized conferences (Such as the Colin
Powell shout-down that was mentioned earlier).  I don't think that
this is what the 1st Amendment was implying.  These folks -do- have a
right to be heard, and I think they have a right to be heard by the
folks they elected in the first place.

My point, (my only point) was really more concerned with the cases
such as Mr. Nell.   He wasn't engaged (at least from the limited facts
we have) in a shoutout, but rather in a difference of opinion.   He
has a right to possess this opinion and make it known  to the
representatives that are elected.   A sign is not a shout-out.

I think I may have missed (or not accurately addressed) the original
thread switch that took this example and mixed in the screaming
dissenters to the mix.  I was mostly responding with my miffedness in
having broad-brush strokes applied to a group without examining the
policy reasons that might have contributed to it.   IN this case, the
screaming parties are fed up with getting corralled miles away from
the folks they need to speak with.   They're resorting to creative,
offensive and constitutionally challengable means, but its not simply
due to the fact that they're 20 and have lost all decorum.   The 'My
generation never did this ' is all BS.   THere's more to this story,
we just dont' know it all.

I hope this clarifies my position.   For the quick rehash:

Screaming != Free speech on all cases.
Dissent = Free speech, provided you follow what has been laid down by
the Supremes.

K?

-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                            mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0890.6f5adc9f03179475957e05f5f37cce57.eml000066400000000000000000000110001444326627400311470ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Oct  1 10:41:44 2002
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On Saturday 28 September 2002 04:37 pm, you struggled free to say:
&> > Although it's like a total shock to 99.999% (5nines) of all the
&> > employed website designers out there, the truth is webforms /can/
&> > accept "U.S. of A" as a country.  Incredible, but true.  Web forms can
&> > also accept /multiple/ or even /free-form/ telephone numbers and can
&> > even be partitioned into manageable steps. All this can also be done
&> > without selling exclusive rights to your wallet to the World's
&> > Second-Richest Corporation (assuming Cisco is still #1) and vendor
&> > locking your business into their "small transaction fee" tithe.

Think of all the people and places that would not get unsolicited mail
if we hadn't invented them.  Though perhaps ordering a free Enron mug
as the King of Hell....

I think it's like P3P met whatever commercial /.like forum was rocking
yesterday, and they took all Greg's extra serotonin and lit up and
made a Successful go of personal address palettes you could occupy and
own or rent and even move or sell.  So you'd reply to all the whitepaper
sites you wouldn't just call to get the real deal like: 'Okay, let's say
I'm in Factorytown, GuangZhou, and I'm a battery acid supervisor for
a multinational that sometimes buys B1s.  e-mail me if you get your story
written up all the way;' or
	'Today, I'm a 200lb, 3m tall mophead with pearlecent teeth
and excellent sex-linked features, but who uses Solaris nntp clients.  Got it?'
 or merely
	'I can't read Base64 messages.  I use small alphabets and
8-letter words that didn't come from the bible and use calculus, and
I'd thank you to class me as a Catamite.'

&> Yes, but this is what normally happened:
&> Engineer: we can put an input validator/parser on the backend to do that.
&> 	.....
&> Creative Director: I don't give a shit. As long as it's in blue. And
&> has a link to my press release.

N3kk1D PRR3zzEw33Lz ahR 3V1L, but I thought it had to do with
coldfusion-compatiblie plugins (servlets, whatever) that overhyped
unimplemented features.  Repeatedly.  Openly.  In rakish 10MB
branding-first downloads that meshed well with budgeting policies.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0891.44f5cad6f0dfa66277e1a0aec55e7bf6.eml000066400000000000000000000054631444326627400315150ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Oct  1 10:41:45 2002
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From: "Russell Turpin" 
To: Fork@xent.com
Subject: Re: A moment of silence for the First Amendment & Angry Liberal Yutes
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Gregory Alan Bolcer:
>I'm not sure since I haven't attended civics class
>in quite some time, but the First Amendment doesn't cover protected speech, 
>hate speech, or actions. ..

The first two are wrong. The first amendment DOES
protect speech the Supreme Court decides it protects
(duh!), and that happens to include most of what
people consider hate speech. Unlike many other
nations, the US has no laws against hate speech, per
se. And the first amendment is the reason for that.




_________________________________________________________________
Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0892.b0cff6bbd5818574a0cd15913ee16970.eml000066400000000000000000000223241444326627400312100ustar00rootroot00000000000000Forwarded: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 11:17:08 +0100
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One of the most bizarre pages I've seen on the Web. At first I thought it
might be some sort of back-story to a RPG, but, nope, it looks like somebody
believes this.

===
http://www.viking-z.org/r20i.htm

M09. Dinosaurs Eggs and the Origins of Good and Evil.
DINOSAURS. Reptoid ETs are reported to be 12 foot high crocodiles walking on
their hind legs. This is a description of a dinosaur. It now appears in
Remote Viewing that the Reptoid ETs, dinosaurs and dragons are all linked
together and that they all originated on Earth. The Erideans who are Reptoid
derivatives have a home planet (in the Eridanus system) like all other ETs.
The Reptoids have no reported home planet. They also come over as entities
with little brain who control their bodies directly by spirit. This is a
description of a ghost or disincarnate entity regardless of how people see
them. Thus it could be that the Reptoids, Erideans, Nordics, Anunnaki, but
not the Greys, all have origins on Earth and have a strong link to Earth
even if they choose to live elsewhere. The Greys do not appear to have a
renal or urinary system and this points to them not originating on Earth.
The definitive work on dragons is "The Flight of Dragons" by Peter
Dickinson. If dragons did exist in the flesh, they did not survive the long
bow. Targets do not come much bigger.

Truth is stranger than fiction. Thus the writer's current scenario is that
there were a race of dinosaurs which developed psychic intelligence to guard
their eggs and young, and who probably preferred to live underground. They
survived the wipe out of the dinosaurs 50 million years ago with difficulty.
They evolved into the Erideans and transferred to a more hospitable planet
(for them) possibly with the help of another race of ETs who wanted slaves
but otherwise had no interest in Earth or mind control.

Thus it appears that the current Reptoids are the Spirits or ghosts of the
dinosaurs. They must have been powerful to survive 50 million years and also
to appear to some people. They have appeared to the writer in remote
viewing. They are living on as vampire entities. Such immortal minds are
contagious and can easily jump race and species barriers. If they can be
encouraged to reincarnate, then the power sources of the black magicians and
mind controllers will disappear. Encouraging them to reincarnate will help
so called immortal minds to disappear as immortal minds have great
difficulty surviving reincarnation. Purging people's dinosaurs should remove
all perverse psychic abilities not under their control. They are a source of
Satanic Guardian Angels and demons. They control us by owning our psi. Thus
if we regain ownership of psi, we must relinquish their control and that of
all other mind controllers. Encourage people to regain ownership of their
psi.

THE ORIGINS OF LOVE, HATE AND PURE MALICE. The following scenario appears to
hold water and can account for the origins of our Universal Subconscious.

Dinosaurs laid their eggs and buried them either underground or in piles of
rotting vegetation (a good source of beetles and grubs for young
hatchelings). They did not sit on their eggs to keep them warm, which made
them very vulnerable to drastic climate and temperature change. In order to
keep away predators some at least developed psychic mind control. To do this
they had to capture ownership of the psi of potential predators. This is an
act of hatred and outward looking. While a few dinosaurs did develop the
ability to bear living young, most did not. The dinosaurs got in first and
so their mind control tends to override all other latter minds. They have
become the source of all Satans, devils and demons.

Birds on the other hand developed the ability to sit on their eggs and keep
them warm. A hen bird normally lays a series of eggs (say one per day) and
only starts sitting when the clutch is completely laid. Thus all eggs tend
to hatch together as they all have an equal period of warmth. This is
primarily an act of love but inward looking. Bearing live young is not
suitable to a bird of the air. A pregnant pigeon would not fly very far.
Antarctic penguins tuck a single egg between their legs to keep it warm,
even if they are standing on ice.

Mammals developed live bearing of their young which is also primarily an act
of love and inward looking. This is especially true as a mammalian female
can not desert her young in the womb in case of emergency as can a bird
sitting on a nest.

Dinosaurs developed hate and mind control of others to protect their young,
while birds and mammals developed love. Birds and mammals certainly do hate
all enemies of their young, but this is secondary.

If one wants to purge the sources of malice of say a black magician, then
purge his dinosaurs and his dinosaur eggs. Unfortunately most of our
religions are based on dinosaur protection of eggs and thus mind control,
regardless of the front they put out to the public. Religion tends to
concentrate on "How to Brainwash your Neighbour". Conscious thought has
built many mighty empires, theologies and slave control systems out of using
"How to care for and protect one's young" as a foundation.

Thus the foulest form of abuse possible is to call something "A load of
dinosaur's eggs". Purging the dinosaurs and dinosaur's eggs of any entity
tends to purge all malice back to its roots.

It looks as if mighty immortal minds have built up from small beginnings,
aided and abetted by various occultists and other. As they will insist on
vampiring the living for energy to avoid reincarnation and disturbing the
serenity of the writer, he encourages them to reincarnate.

ITEMS FOR INSPECTION. For mind control to take place, then someone must take
control or ownership of the target's psi and pleasure centres. Check for the
following.

Nest of dinosaur's eggs, holy dinosaurs, etc.
Eggs, controllers or owners in peoples psi, pleasure centres, pain killing
hormones, abilities, etc.
Mind machines.
The original engraving or engram.
GOD and SATAN appear to be job titles and not entities in their own right. T
hey appear to be dinosaur engravings or engrams. No doubt dinosaurs were the
first job holders.
TIMETRACKS are worth investigating as our complete history from the start of
time.

My, our, Man's timetracks, etc.
The time tracks of the Universe, Universal Subconscious, Galactic
Subconscious, etc.
EXTINCT RACES of ETs can cause problems when they live on in vampire mode.
Their virtues may known to channelers but they can also have vices. Whenever
one hears of races which have evolved on to higher planes, suspect that the
higher plane is a vampire one. One may never know what they looked like or
other basic characteristics, which makes linking back a trifle difficult.
Every extinct race, etc.
BLOOD ANCESTORS are also worth investigating as minds can be passed down via
genetic linkages. Some of these can be over 2,000 years old.
Every blood ancestor, ancestral mind, genetic mind, etc.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0893.535c68823a7692562371ccebf36fb7b7.eml000066400000000000000000000055331444326627400310730ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Oct  1 10:41:58 2002
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Wow, talk about a pheenomeenon

==
http://www.iamcal.com/software/ami/

AmIThisOrNot Dynamic Peer Rating System

What is It?
It's a tool to help you build your own "Am I X Or Not" sites.

Where Can I Get It?
Basic Version $20
The basic version lets you build a specific "Am I X" site (example). The
license covers a single installation on a single site.

Advanced Version $40
The advanced version lets your users create their own "Am I X" sites
(example). The license covers a single installation on a single site.

Installation $20
Either version of the system can be installed on your web server, given FTP
access and MySQL login details.



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0894.9a873eed71fe3121571bced96155d76a.eml000066400000000000000000000075241444326627400312310ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Oct  1 10:41:31 2002
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From: "Jim Whitehead" 
To: "FoRK" 
Subject: Internet Archive bookmobile
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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2002/09/26/bono
act.DTL

Opening arguments are set to begin early next month in Eldred vs. Ashcroft,
a landmark U.S. Supreme Court case that will decide the future of copyright
law, including how and when artists and writers can build upon the work of
others.

....

To heighten public awareness of the importance of the case an Internet
bookmobile is set to depart San Francisco next Monday on a trip that will
bring it to the steps of the Supreme Court building in Washington, D.C.,
before arguments wrap up. The van, which will be stopping at schools,
libraries and senior centers along the way, is equipped to provide free
high-speed access to thousands of literary and artistic works that are
already in the public domain.

--------

I had the opportunity to visit the Internet Archive about a month ago, and
saw the bookmobile under construction. It's a neat idea. Take an SUV, put a
small satellite dish on the top, and put a computer, printer, and binding
machine in the back. Voila -- people can search for a book, then print out a
copy right there on the spot. Quite literally on-demand printing. Total
fixed cost of the computer/printer/binding machine, if bought new (the IA
had the equipment donated) is under $10k.

One of the goals is to show libraries across the country that they could, if
they wished, add these "virtual holdings" (public domain materials) to their
existing library, at a fixed cost most libraries can afford. This should be
compelling to small libraries in remote areas.

- Jim


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0895.22cf8120994972bcbe9125e842cb27ff.eml000066400000000000000000000045001444326627400311400ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Oct  1 10:42:05 2002
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http://www.thecliffguy.com/cliffs.htm

Numerous artists drawing characters on a cliff.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0896.cf28f52e82954eb5d05ed5f17df4262f.eml000066400000000000000000000234461444326627400313210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Oct  1 10:42:04 2002
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From: "Gordon Mohr" 
To: "Mr. FoRK" , 
References: 
Subject: Re: Dinosaurs Eggs and the Origins of Good and Evil
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Neat stuff. Seems to combine elements of Scientology/Xenu and
David Icke (http://www.davidicke.com/icke/temp/reptconn.html).

- Gordon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mr. FoRK" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:11 PM
Subject: Dinosaurs Eggs and the Origins of Good and Evil


> One of the most bizarre pages I've seen on the Web. At first I thought it
> might be some sort of back-story to a RPG, but, nope, it looks like somebody
> believes this.
> 
> ===
> http://www.viking-z.org/r20i.htm
> 
> M09. Dinosaurs Eggs and the Origins of Good and Evil.
> DINOSAURS. Reptoid ETs are reported to be 12 foot high crocodiles walking on
> their hind legs. This is a description of a dinosaur. It now appears in
> Remote Viewing that the Reptoid ETs, dinosaurs and dragons are all linked
> together and that they all originated on Earth. The Erideans who are Reptoid
> derivatives have a home planet (in the Eridanus system) like all other ETs.
> The Reptoids have no reported home planet. They also come over as entities
> with little brain who control their bodies directly by spirit. This is a
> description of a ghost or disincarnate entity regardless of how people see
> them. Thus it could be that the Reptoids, Erideans, Nordics, Anunnaki, but
> not the Greys, all have origins on Earth and have a strong link to Earth
> even if they choose to live elsewhere. The Greys do not appear to have a
> renal or urinary system and this points to them not originating on Earth.
> The definitive work on dragons is "The Flight of Dragons" by Peter
> Dickinson. If dragons did exist in the flesh, they did not survive the long
> bow. Targets do not come much bigger.
> 
> Truth is stranger than fiction. Thus the writer's current scenario is that
> there were a race of dinosaurs which developed psychic intelligence to guard
> their eggs and young, and who probably preferred to live underground. They
> survived the wipe out of the dinosaurs 50 million years ago with difficulty.
> They evolved into the Erideans and transferred to a more hospitable planet
> (for them) possibly with the help of another race of ETs who wanted slaves
> but otherwise had no interest in Earth or mind control.
> 
> Thus it appears that the current Reptoids are the Spirits or ghosts of the
> dinosaurs. They must have been powerful to survive 50 million years and also
> to appear to some people. They have appeared to the writer in remote
> viewing. They are living on as vampire entities. Such immortal minds are
> contagious and can easily jump race and species barriers. If they can be
> encouraged to reincarnate, then the power sources of the black magicians and
> mind controllers will disappear. Encouraging them to reincarnate will help
> so called immortal minds to disappear as immortal minds have great
> difficulty surviving reincarnation. Purging people's dinosaurs should remove
> all perverse psychic abilities not under their control. They are a source of
> Satanic Guardian Angels and demons. They control us by owning our psi. Thus
> if we regain ownership of psi, we must relinquish their control and that of
> all other mind controllers. Encourage people to regain ownership of their
> psi.
> 
> THE ORIGINS OF LOVE, HATE AND PURE MALICE. The following scenario appears to
> hold water and can account for the origins of our Universal Subconscious.
> 
> Dinosaurs laid their eggs and buried them either underground or in piles of
> rotting vegetation (a good source of beetles and grubs for young
> hatchelings). They did not sit on their eggs to keep them warm, which made
> them very vulnerable to drastic climate and temperature change. In order to
> keep away predators some at least developed psychic mind control. To do this
> they had to capture ownership of the psi of potential predators. This is an
> act of hatred and outward looking. While a few dinosaurs did develop the
> ability to bear living young, most did not. The dinosaurs got in first and
> so their mind control tends to override all other latter minds. They have
> become the source of all Satans, devils and demons.
> 
> Birds on the other hand developed the ability to sit on their eggs and keep
> them warm. A hen bird normally lays a series of eggs (say one per day) and
> only starts sitting when the clutch is completely laid. Thus all eggs tend
> to hatch together as they all have an equal period of warmth. This is
> primarily an act of love but inward looking. Bearing live young is not
> suitable to a bird of the air. A pregnant pigeon would not fly very far.
> Antarctic penguins tuck a single egg between their legs to keep it warm,
> even if they are standing on ice.
> 
> Mammals developed live bearing of their young which is also primarily an act
> of love and inward looking. This is especially true as a mammalian female
> can not desert her young in the womb in case of emergency as can a bird
> sitting on a nest.
> 
> Dinosaurs developed hate and mind control of others to protect their young,
> while birds and mammals developed love. Birds and mammals certainly do hate
> all enemies of their young, but this is secondary.
> 
> If one wants to purge the sources of malice of say a black magician, then
> purge his dinosaurs and his dinosaur eggs. Unfortunately most of our
> religions are based on dinosaur protection of eggs and thus mind control,
> regardless of the front they put out to the public. Religion tends to
> concentrate on "How to Brainwash your Neighbour". Conscious thought has
> built many mighty empires, theologies and slave control systems out of using
> "How to care for and protect one's young" as a foundation.
> 
> Thus the foulest form of abuse possible is to call something "A load of
> dinosaur's eggs". Purging the dinosaurs and dinosaur's eggs of any entity
> tends to purge all malice back to its roots.
> 
> It looks as if mighty immortal minds have built up from small beginnings,
> aided and abetted by various occultists and other. As they will insist on
> vampiring the living for energy to avoid reincarnation and disturbing the
> serenity of the writer, he encourages them to reincarnate.
> 
> ITEMS FOR INSPECTION. For mind control to take place, then someone must take
> control or ownership of the target's psi and pleasure centres. Check for the
> following.
> 
> Nest of dinosaur's eggs, holy dinosaurs, etc.
> Eggs, controllers or owners in peoples psi, pleasure centres, pain killing
> hormones, abilities, etc.
> Mind machines.
> The original engraving or engram.
> GOD and SATAN appear to be job titles and not entities in their own right. T
> hey appear to be dinosaur engravings or engrams. No doubt dinosaurs were the
> first job holders.
> TIMETRACKS are worth investigating as our complete history from the start of
> time.
> 
> My, our, Man's timetracks, etc.
> The time tracks of the Universe, Universal Subconscious, Galactic
> Subconscious, etc.
> EXTINCT RACES of ETs can cause problems when they live on in vampire mode.
> Their virtues may known to channelers but they can also have vices. Whenever
> one hears of races which have evolved on to higher planes, suspect that the
> higher plane is a vampire one. One may never know what they looked like or
> other basic characteristics, which makes linking back a trifle difficult.
> Every extinct race, etc.
> BLOOD ANCESTORS are also worth investigating as minds can be passed down via
> genetic linkages. Some of these can be over 2,000 years old.
> Every blood ancestor, ancestral mind, genetic mind, etc.
> 


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0897.c0fe033806bfaf60f935e01aec04eec6.eml000066400000000000000000000103141444326627400314140ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Oct  1 15:30:14 2002
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From: Gregory Alan Bolcer 
Subject: Re: A moment of silence for the First Amendment & Angry Liberal Yutes
To: FoRK 
Reply-To: gbolcer@endeavors.com
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Russell Turpin wrote:
> 
> Gregory Alan Bolcer:
> >I'm not sure since I haven't attended civics class
> >in quite some time, but the First Amendment doesn't cover protected speech,
> >hate speech, or actions. ..
> 
> The first two are wrong. The first amendment DOES
> protect speech the Supreme Court decides it protects
> (duh!), and that happens to include most of what
> people consider hate speech. Unlike many other
> nations, the US has no laws against hate speech, per
> se. And the first amendment is the reason for that.
> 


This was poking fun of the practice of making
up differnt types of speech with different
types of protected status.  I think the
laws specialing out hate and protected speech
are ridiculous.  The point I keep trying to make
is that there's only two types, speech and action. 
I agree, they are all speech and should be 
covered by the First Amendment, but

If hate speech is so protected, why are certain
states trying to prosecute people for it?  There's
only two answers and one of them is wrong.

  1) Because hate speech is different and needs to
     have a different level of protection dictated
     by whoever's offended at the time.
  2) It's because it's not just speech, but action.
     A action who's consequences are foreseeable by 
     any reasonable person. 

Hate speech is mislabeled.  It's really "threat".  I think
they let the mislabeling perpetuate as there's advantage
in being able to counter-threat with loss of liberty and
money through civil and criminal lawsuits for people THEY
don't like.  


Greg



> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0898.7ae0747c5a557c5362ba43b0fbfef22c.eml000066400000000000000000000050521444326627400313440ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Oct  1 15:30:14 2002
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At 05:38 PM 9/30/2002 +0200, Eugen Leitl wrote:


>Looks useful. Hopefully, they'll put up some more material soon.
>
>         http://ocw.mit.edu/global/all-courses.html

I'll be sure to keep everyone posted on the next update. :)


--
B.K. DeLong
bkdelong@ceci.mit.edu
OpenCourseWare

+1.617.258.0360
+1.617.877.3271 (cell)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0899.1f868150b365a5f407f46f908fe879e1.eml000066400000000000000000000064521444326627400310340ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Oct  1 16:29:00 2002
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Better late than never -- I received a grant from Project Athena, MIT's original courseware effort, and found at the end that they hadn't thought much about distribution of the courseware.  Instead, they had gotten wrapped up with X and various Unix tools, and other useful, but not strictly educational efforts.

Ken


> -----Original Message-----
> From: B.K. DeLong [mailto:bkdelong@pobox.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 9:06 AM
> To: Eugen Leitl; forkit!
> Subject: Re: MIT OpenCourseWare
> 
> 
> At 05:38 PM 9/30/2002 +0200, Eugen Leitl wrote:
> 
> 
> >Looks useful. Hopefully, they'll put up some more material soon.
> >
> >         http://ocw.mit.edu/global/all-courses.html
> 
> I'll be sure to keep everyone posted on the next update. :)
> 
> 
> --
> B.K. DeLong
> bkdelong@ceci.mit.edu
> OpenCourseWare
> 
> +1.617.258.0360
> +1.617.877.3271 (cell)
> 
> 


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On Tuesday 01 October 2002 01:27 am, Mr. FoRK wrote:
> http://www.rathergood.com/vikings/

Some classics from this period, now in a new English translation:
"The Sagas of Icelanders" in trade paperback, from (duh) Viking, in 2000.
Remaindered at my local Barnes & Ignoble.   The historical reference 
material is useful.

Eirikur


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From: Elias 
Subject: Re: So I missed this one...
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bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:

> Turns out the music industry settled ... quite a hefty
> settlement.


Funnky, I thought that it was minor in comparison the the gouging that 
occurs on a standard CD.


> The Wall Street Journal
> Copyright (c) 2002, Dow Jones & Company, Inc.
> Tuesday, October 1, 2002
> 
> Five Music Concerns To Pay $143.1 Million In Price-Fixing Case
> Reuters News Service ...
> The companies, which didn't admit any wrongdoing, will pay $67.4
> million in cash to compensate consumers who overpaid for CDs between
> 1995 and 2000. The companies also agreed to distribute $75.7 million
> worth of CDs to public entities and nonprofit organizations throughout
> the country.


The CDs will probably cost less than 7.5 million to produce and 
distribute... "didn't admit any wrongdoing"?!? Give me a break.


Elias





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Hello Elias,

Tuesday, October 1, 2002, 9:54:02 PM, you wrote:

E> bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:

>> Turns out the music industry settled ... quite a hefty
>> settlement.


E> Funnky, I thought that it was minor in comparison the the gouging that 
E> occurs on a standard CD.


>> The Wall Street Journal
>> Copyright (c) 2002, Dow Jones & Company, Inc.
>> Tuesday, October 1, 2002
>> 
>> Five Music Concerns To Pay $143.1 Million In Price-Fixing Case
>> Reuters News Service ...
>> The companies, which didn't admit any wrongdoing, will pay $67.4
>> million in cash to compensate consumers who overpaid for CDs between
>> 1995 and 2000. The companies also agreed to distribute $75.7 million
>> worth of CDs to public entities and nonprofit organizations throughout
>> the country.


E> The CDs will probably cost less than 7.5 million to produce and 
E> distribute... "didn't admit any wrongdoing"?!? Give me a break.


E> Elias





Toobad none of this will go back to any of the people who were forced
to pay the rates.


-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                            mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0903.8b54a580db644a9a23934361d5173610.eml000066400000000000000000000065521444326627400306170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  2 11:47:32 2002
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At 10:27 PM -0700 on 9/30/02, Mr. FoRK wrote:


> I realize now, that after reviewing the past several years of work and
> career, I have been in the wrong business. The wrong business.
>
> This is what I should have been doing.
>
> http://www.rathergood.com/vikings/

A New Manual has been published:



Or, the one I read...
 

And, of course, the open source versions...

http://users.ev1.net/~theweb/njaltoc.htm

http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/OMACL/Njal/
-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0904.281bae2420e1d4491270fb4ccfe7c4e6.eml000066400000000000000000000104531444326627400312470ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  2 11:48:04 2002
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I think what you're looking at with the dual antenna mounts is a 
diversity antenna.  It won't work too well with one hooked up to the 
pringles can and the other hooked up to a regular rubber duck.

-Ian.


On Tuesday, October 1, 2002, at 01:04 PM, Eugen Leitl wrote:

>
> 1) reinforced concrete shields like the dickens; wood lots less so
> 2) line of sight is best (o'really?)
> 3) if you want to boost range, use directional aerials, not omnis
>
> Direct line of sight (no trees, no nothing) can give you ~10 km with 
> well
> aligned directional aerials (and, say, no sleet, no locusts, nor rain 
> of
> blood). If you want to fan out afterwards, use a bridge of a 
> directional
> coupling to an omni. 802.11a should shield within building lots more 
> than
> 802.11b, ditto line of sight with lots of precipitation inbetween.
>
> On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Damien Morton wrote:
>
>> I just bought a LinkSys BEFW1154v2 Access Point Router for $150
>> (http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=22&prid=415). Im 
>> doing
>> some dev work on a Symbol PocketPC device with built in 802.11b.
>>
>> In this 600 sq ft pre-war New York apartment it goes through 2 or 3
>> walls, into the hallway and halfway down the first flight of stairs
>> before it loses contact with the base station. That's less than 50 ft.
>> Inside the apartment, it works just fine.
>>
>> I just did some further testing - through 2 brick walls the range is
>> about 25 feet. The signal also goes through the roof pretty much
>> unimpeded.
>>
>> That said, the Symbol device doesn't have an antenna to speak of, and 
>> I
>> havent done any tweaking to try to extend the range.
>>
>> The Linksys unit has two antenna mounts - you could leave one as an 
>> omni
>> antenna while hooking up a directional antenna to the other.
>>
>> You might find that you have to use several access points and/or
>> repeaters to get the coverage you want.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0905.2460d014dcdcdaaa26313066df702677.eml000066400000000000000000000063351444326627400311020ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  2 11:48:05 2002
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From: Eirikur Hallgrimsson 
Organization: Electric Brain
To: Rohit Khare , fork@example.com
Subject: Re: Optical analog computing?
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Uh, WWII Enigma was cracked at Bletchly Park, based on the work of some 
Poles, who had been trying to figure out when they would be invaded.   
Entirely mechanical!   Definitely not optical at all.    Enigma was 
originally broken based on bad use practice.  If it had been employed more 
sensibly it would have been a lot harder.

See "The Code Book" by Singh, Doubleday, 1999.     Or, for that matter, 
"Cryptonomicon" by Stephenson, which is a fictionalization of the Enigma 
cracking story, and pretty accurate.

I eventually get born as a side-effect of the Battle of Britain, you 
see....

Computing with interference patterns, etc, makes perfect sense, but Enigma 
was cracked by building mechanical systems that were essentially Enigma 
machines and brute-forcing.

Eirikur




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0906.2e604cc2a15e9f2a68c302861ac42ec5.eml000066400000000000000000000115361444326627400311710ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  2 11:48:11 2002
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From: "Damien Morton" 
To: "'Ian Andrew Bell'" ,
	"'Eugen Leitl'" 
Cc: , 
Subject: RE: Wifi query
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That's what the manual said - a diversity antenna.

Why wouldn't it work well with one omni and one directional antena? 

IANAEE, but doesn't that count as diversity?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Andrew Bell [mailto:fork@ianbell.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, 1 October 2002 23:23
> To: Eugen Leitl
> Cc: Damien Morton; tomwhore@slack.net; fork@example.com
> Subject: Re: Wifi query
> 
> 
> 
> I think what you're looking at with the dual antenna mounts is a 
> diversity antenna.  It won't work too well with one hooked up to the 
> pringles can and the other hooked up to a regular rubber duck.
> 
> -Ian.
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, October 1, 2002, at 01:04 PM, Eugen Leitl wrote:
> 
> >
> > 1) reinforced concrete shields like the dickens; wood lots less so
> > 2) line of sight is best (o'really?)
> > 3) if you want to boost range, use directional aerials, not omnis
> >
> > Direct line of sight (no trees, no nothing) can give you ~10 km with
> > well
> > aligned directional aerials (and, say, no sleet, no 
> locusts, nor rain 
> > of
> > blood). If you want to fan out afterwards, use a bridge of a 
> > directional
> > coupling to an omni. 802.11a should shield within building 
> lots more 
> > than
> > 802.11b, ditto line of sight with lots of precipitation inbetween.
> >
> > On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Damien Morton wrote:
> >
> >> I just bought a LinkSys BEFW1154v2 Access Point Router for $150 
> >> (http://www.linksys.com/products/product.asp?grid=22&prid=415). Im 
> >> doing some dev work on a Symbol PocketPC device with built in 
> >> 802.11b.
> >>
> >> In this 600 sq ft pre-war New York apartment it goes 
> through 2 or 3 
> >> walls, into the hallway and halfway down the first flight 
> of stairs 
> >> before it loses contact with the base station. That's less than 50 
> >> ft. Inside the apartment, it works just fine.
> >>
> >> I just did some further testing - through 2 brick walls 
> the range is 
> >> about 25 feet. The signal also goes through the roof pretty much 
> >> unimpeded.
> >>
> >> That said, the Symbol device doesn't have an antenna to 
> speak of, and
> >> I
> >> havent done any tweaking to try to extend the range.
> >>
> >> The Linksys unit has two antenna mounts - you could leave one as an
> >> omni
> >> antenna while hooking up a directional antenna to the other.
> >>
> >> You might find that you have to use several access points and/or 
> >> repeaters to get the coverage you want.
> 


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0907.f0d5881329abda19ea946cf5c2e15d63.eml000066400000000000000000000057711444326627400312770ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  2 11:47:46 2002
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http://www.quitpalestine.org./

Funny as all hell.  So a group of 25 QUIT (Queers Undermining Israeli
Terrorism) marched into the local starbucks in Berkeley (Of course,
they pick a safe city like Berkeley, but hey, still funny) and
'settle' driving away straights and other prior inhabitants with
supersoakers :)

Incredibly creative, in my opinion. Not terribly violent (I mean, how
much damage can you -really-  do with a supersoaker?) but definintely
a newscatcher.

Its nice to see folks are finding some creative means to make a point.
 Even if you don't -agree- with it, its a hard sell to say that this
 has been done before.





-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                          mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0908.ed1a6d5d837cf45b48c47dfb105607e9.eml000066400000000000000000000100551444326627400312760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  2 11:48:18 2002
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From: "Mr. FoRK" 
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Subject: ActiveBuddy
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Kind of interesting application of 'agent' technology.
A mix of telnet and Eliza?
(wonder if KnowNow needs this as a partner...)

==
http://www.activebuddy.com/products/index.shtml
ActiveBuddy, Inc. has developed patented technology for building and
deploying interactive agents. ActiveBuddy's BuddyScript technology powers
business solutions that leverage the functionality, convenience and appeal
of instant messaging to provide an efficient and immediate means of
communication with customers and constituents.

ActiveBuddy technology is proven in the marketplace by the smash success of
SmarterChild, ActiveBuddy's showcase interactive agent launched in June 2001
and visited by over 8 million consumers in its first year of life.

Interactive agents allow your customers and constituents to receive
information and services in a natural, conversational interface.


Software Products
BuddyScriptT Server - an end-to-end software solution for deploying
interactive agents. BuddyScript Server provides every component required to
operate an interactive agent, including connectivity with the messaging
network, message routing, data access, message formatting, user and session
management, and detailed tracking. BuddyScript Server is offered in four
configurations to meet your capacity needs. Its scaleable architecture
supports virtually unlimited usage. More...

===
Here is a sample conversation on (MSN Messenger with 'SmarterChild'):

Mike says:
how are you?

SmarterChild says:
Great thx! You?

Mike says:
Fine. What is the weather like in seattle?

SmarterChild says:
Current weather conditions for Seattle, WA:

Currently: 57 F
Condition: Few Clouds
Real Feel: 57 F
Dewpoint: 44
Humidity: 62 %
Visibility: 10 mi
Wind: N/0 mph

Next time, just type "weather seattle, wa."

To get the forecast for Seattle, WA, just type "forecast."



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0909.6e3ac55814e0630adcbe7e91f131e18c.eml000066400000000000000000000050511444326627400312540ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  2 16:02:24 2002
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Subject: Re: ActiveBuddy
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MF> Here is a sample conversation on (MSN Messenger with 'SmarterChild'):

MF> Mike says:
MF> how are you?

MF> SmarterChild says:
MF> Great thx! You?



Oh freaking great.  In their adoption to make it 'more human' they
have to add in all the broken english and shortened AOL-style
phrasings.  YAY.

Next thing you know, the AI will be asking for ASL...

Evil.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0910.1c60142bded401b4c9921b2c48600619.eml000066400000000000000000000115061444326627400307320ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Sep 26 18:11:36 2002
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----- Original Message -----
From: Joseph S. Barrera III
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 7:06 PM
To: FoRK
Subject: dumb question: X client behind a firewall?

Let's say you're behind a firewall and have a NAT address.
Is there any way to telnet to a linux box out there in the world
and set your DISPLAY in some way that you can create
xterms on your own screen?

- Joe

--------------------
I'm in no way a pro but perhaps you could set your Firewall to accept con=
nections from that Linux box and then somehow set the Linux box to transm=
it on a specific port. Then configure your router to forward all informat=
ion from that port to your box.

But then again, that pretty much defeats the entire point of a firewall =3D=
P.Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.ms=
n.com

------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C2655A.4ABB3500
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


 
 <=
DIV>  
=
 
----- Original Message -----
 
From: Joseph S. Barrera III
 
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 7:06 PM
 
To: FoRK
 
Subject: dumb question: X client behind a firewall?
 
 
 
L=
et's say you're behind a firewall and have a NAT address.
Is there any=
 way to telnet to a linux box out there in the world
and set your DISP=
LAY in some way that you can create
xterms on your own screen?

=
- Joe
 
 
 
--------------------
 
I'm in no way a pr=
o but perhaps you could set your Firewall to accept connections from that=
 Linux box and then somehow set the Linux box to transmit on a specific p=
ort. Then configure your router to forward all information from that port=
 to your box.
 
 
 
But then again, that pretty much defea=
ts the entire point of a firewall =3DP.
Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com


------=_NextPart_001_0004_01C2655A.4ABB3500--


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0911.dcc71630eed7821469e4c26e5b768aee.eml000066400000000000000000000072411444326627400312760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  2 17:51:19 2002
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To: fork 
Subject: Polit-spam
References: <20021002103833.700FC1B624@maya.dyndns.org>
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
X-Home-Page: http://www.teledyn.com
Organization: TCI Business Innovation through Open Source Computing
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This is something new, or at least new to me: 

    Politspam (n): Using a spam engine for political purposes.

In this particular case, to get back at the University of Groningen.
The content suggests its more prank than vigilante activism (in the
old days we used to say "someone left their terminal unguarded")
but what's interesting is that it's not trying to sell me anything
or lead me to any for-fee service, it's just trying to spread
a meme that RUG is evil.

>>>>> "w" == wpin   writes:

    w> Those who want to leave for the Netherlands to carry on any
    w> kind of education,including for PHD, must be careful
    w> . Especially the university of Groningen(RUG) should be
    w> avoided. This university was once a good one but now it has
    w> lost its reputation. ... Studying is a good investment in time
    w> and money. So invest in the right place and time. You are
    w> warned.

    w> Sincerely yours,
    w> hyohxsycjlakdbmhjpiouupngoqrm

Has anyone else started to receive either consumer vigilante or
political activism messages via spam methods?

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
  "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0912.7951bb152a4106ceff12048a818491a3.eml000066400000000000000000000113621444326627400307450ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  2 17:51:37 2002
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To: "Mr. FoRK" 
Cc: , "Rohit Khare" 
Subject: Re: ActiveBuddy
References: 
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
X-Home-Page: http://www.teledyn.com
Organization: TCI Business Innovation through Open Source Computing
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How is this any different from attaching an Infobot or A.L.I.C.E
through licq's console-hook?  People have been doing that for years,
and for over a decade in IRC and the MUDs.

... and the one thing I think we've learned in all that time is that,
as a help-desk, it doesn't work.  People just don't like talking to
robots, especially when the robots, once confused, become imbeciles.
I think the humans may feel cheated, deceived and tricked when they
discover, as with the Seattle answer, that they are talking to a
machine; there's no real intelligence behind that simulated-friendly
and therefore empty 'thx'.

AIML is clever and cute, but for /practical/ applications as a first
line of technical support?  It's been tried over and over, and while I
/also/ think that it /should/ work, for the most part, people won't
use it.  What's worse, as we make the NL processing more and more
clever, it only means it fails more dramatically; ALICE doesn't just
stumble a bit, it starts to drool.  And ALICE is the best we have.

Like a Dalek: All very impressive when things are going well, but all
it takes to betray the chicken-brain inside is a towel over it's
ill-placed eye, or a spin off the metal surface ;)

In all the prolog-based NL database query systems of the 1980's and
other later chatterbot helpdesk projects like Shallow Red, even
simpler tries like Ask Jeeves, people very quickly know they're
talking to a robot, and the queries anneal to short, truncated and
terse database-like verb-noun or just noun-keyword requests.  

People are just too quick to adapt, and too impatient to forgive a
clunky interface, and for now, especially when the /average/ computer
user still can't type more than maybe 5-10wpm, NL is a painfully slow
clunky interface.

Put it this way: Would you login, wake the bot and ask for the Seattle
weather, or would you do as we /all/ do and just click the weather
icon sitting there on your desktop?

Just for fun, here's an interesting conversation between Shallow Red,
ALICE and Eliza as they decide to play the Turing Game:

http://www.botspot.com/best/12-09-97.htm

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
  "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0913.40f91b03e40a8c45819dabbfd5dc8158.eml000066400000000000000000000050471444326627400312620ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  2 17:52:11 2002
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From: Tom 
To: fork@example.com
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Wow, if they put a VRML front end on it it would be 100% worthless rather
than just 99%

IRC...Bots....scripts.....been there done that and much better.

If these folks actualy saw the xddc instafilesharing scripts must 12 year
olds hang off of Mirc  they might get a clue, then again they might
already have teh clue that sometimes you can packege the obvious and sell
it to the clueless.





golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0914.77308dfba976d8491bad00bb7e616166.eml000066400000000000000000000060301444326627400311250ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  2 17:52:36 2002
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Lawrence Murphy" 

>
> >>>>> "w" == wpin   writes:
>
>     w> Those who want to leave for the Netherlands to carry on any
>     w> kind of education,including for PHD, must be careful
>     w> . Especially the university of Groningen(RUG) should be
>     w> avoided. This university was once a good one but now it has
>     w> lost its reputation. ... Studying is a good investment in time
>     w> and money. So invest in the right place and time. You are
>     w> warned.

Dear gawd - 'lost its reputation' - how horrible for those Northern
Europeans. What could possibly be worse than that?


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0915.50f33ca8972e7e8be40c70edb7c4be73.eml000066400000000000000000000056211444326627400313530ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  2 17:51:51 2002
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To: 
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From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
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let me put it /another/ way ...

    f> Mike says: how are you?
    f> SmarterChild says: Great thx! You?
    f> Mike says: Fine. What is the weather like in seattle?
    f> SmarterChild says: Current weather conditions for Seattle, WA:

Out of 8 /million/ alledged visitors, this is the /best/ example???

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
  "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0916.69d1ff308a747f25c6ffaf7a6004dfb8.eml000066400000000000000000000130751444326627400313640ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  2 18:18:54 2002
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--- begin forwarded text


Status: RO
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 01:30:24 -0400
From: "John S. Denker" 
Subject: Re: Optical analog computing?
Sender: jsd@no.domain.spam
To: "R. A. Hettinga" 
Cc: Digital Bearer Settlement List ,
 cryptography@wasabisystems.com

"R. A. Hettinga" wrote:
...
> "the first computer to crack enigma was optical"
> "the first synthetic-aperture-radar processor was optical"
> "but all these early successes were classified -- 100 to 200 projects,
> and I probably know of less than half."
>
> --> Do these claims compute?! is this really a secret history, or does
> this mean holography, of am I just completely out of the loop?1

Gimme a break.  This is remarkable for its lack of
newsworthiness.

1) Bletchley Park used optical sensors, which were (and
still are) the best way to read paper tape at high speed.
You can read about it in the standard accounts, e.g.
  http://www.picotech.com/applications/colossus.html

2) For decades before that, codebreakers were using optical
computing in the form of superposed masks to find patterns.
You can read about it in Kahn.

3) People have been doing opto-electronic computing for
decades.  There's a lot more to it than just holography.
I get 14,000 hits from
  http://www.google.com/search?q=optical-computing

> Optical info is a complex-valued wave (spatial frequency, amplitude and
> phase)

It isn't right to make it sound like three numbers (frequency,
amplitude, and phase);  actually there are innumerable
frequencies, each of which has its own amplitude and phase.

> lenses, refractions, and interference are the computational operators.
> (add, copy, multiply, fft, correlation, convolution) of 1D and 2D arrays
>
> and, of course, massively parallel by default.
>
> and, of course, allows free-space interconnects.

Some things that are hard with wires are easy with
light-waves.  But most things that are easy with wires
are hard with light-waves.

> Here's a commercialized effort from israel: a "space integrating
> vector-matric multiplier"  [ A ] B = [ C ]
> laser-> 512-gate modulator -> spread over 2D
> "256 Teraflop equivalent" for one multiply per nanosecond.

People were doing smaller versions of that in
the 1980s.

> Unclassified example: acousto-optic spectrometer, 500 Gflops equivalent
> (for 12 watts!) doing continuous FFTs.  Launched in 1998 on a 2-year
> mission. Submillimeter wave observatory.

Not "FFTs".  FTs.  Fourier Transforms.  All you need for
taking a D=2 Fourier Transform is a lens.  It's undergrad
physics-lab stuff.  I get 6,000 hits from:
  http://www.google.com/search?q=fourier-optics

> Of course, the rest of the talk is about the promise of moving from
> optoelectronic to all-optical processors (on all-optical nets & with
> optical encryption, & so on).

All optical???  No optoelectronics anywhere???
That's medicinal-grade pure snake oil, USP.

Photons are well known for not interacting with
each other.  It's hard to do computing without
interactions.

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0917.d223f4992983dd7eda98b30b60356046.eml000066400000000000000000000077461444326627400310140ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  2 18:18:59 2002
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Lawrence Murphy" 

> ... and the one thing I think we've learned in all that time is that,
> as a help-desk, it doesn't work.
I'm not sure they are doing strictly help-desk stuff.
But the whole 'who in their right mind would use that? it doesn't have all
these cool features!' isn't always a guarantee of failure - maybe there is a
strength in this approach (agents and/or IM as ui) than can find a nich
application space.

>
> In all the prolog-based NL database query systems of the 1980's and
> other later chatterbot helpdesk projects like Shallow Red, even
> simpler tries like Ask Jeeves, people very quickly know they're
> talking to a robot, and the queries anneal to short, truncated and
> terse database-like verb-noun or just noun-keyword requests.
Kind of like a web query - and with google, someone else can turn them into
a link so you don't even have to type anything.

>
> People are just too quick to adapt, and too impatient to forgive a
> clunky interface, and for now, especially when the /average/ computer
> user still can't type more than maybe 5-10wpm, NL is a painfully slow
> clunky interface.
Yes - true true.

>
> Put it this way: Would you login, wake the bot and ask for the Seattle
> weather, or would you do as we /all/ do and just click the weather
> icon sitting there on your desktop?
What about a situation where you don't directly ask/talk to the bot, but
they listen in and advise/correct/interject/etc?
example: two people discussing trips, etc. may trigger a weather bot to
mention what the forecast says - without directly being asked.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0918.2de8c6d8251d30c06be407bd701bb412.eml000066400000000000000000000072141444326627400311620ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  2 21:16:48 2002
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802.11b - 11Mbps per channel over three channels in the 2.4GHz range 
(also shared with microwaves and cordless phones) at rages up to ~300 ft.
802.11a runs on 12 channels in the 5GHz range and up to around five 
times more bandwidth (~54Mbps or so) but has less range (60-100 ft). 
8021.11a also adds Forward Error Correction into the scheme to allow for 
more reliable data transmission.
Which to use really depends on what you're doing with it. Streaming 
video almost necessitates 802.11a, while streaming just audio can be 
comfortably done with 802.11b provided that there isn't much 
interference or too many clients.
Prices? Don't know... Haven't done the research. For covering a large 
area 802.11a will be more expensive due to the need for more APs. If you 
want to reach the local coffee shop, however, you will need a 
directional antenna either way.

Check out http://www.80211-planet.com, they've got some good articles on 
802.11... Also, some of the best info on 802.11 security I've seen can 
be found at http://www.drizzle.com/~aboba/IEEE/.


Give me bandwidth or give me death,
Elias


Tom wrote:

>... I have one very pressing question.... Wifi ranges.. ...
>
>Do I got for 802.11b stuff or do I gold out for 802.11a ? Is the price
>point break goign to warrant the differnce?
>



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0919.7cc4e3008c6788cc7675d1662ea4df75.eml000066400000000000000000000140061444326627400311500ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Oct  3 12:55:13 2002
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Subject: Re: Optical analog computing?
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--- begin forwarded text


Status: RO
Delivered-To: fork@example.com
To: fork@example.com
Subject: Re: Optical analog computing?
From: Dave Long 
Sender: fork-admin@xent.com
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 11:09:34 -0700



> > "the first computer to crack enigma was optical"
>
> Computing with interference patterns, etc, makes perfect sense, but Enigma
> was cracked by building mechanical systems that were essentially Enigma
> machines and brute-forcing.

Look for "Zygalski sheets".

By Koerner's* narrative, it wound up
being a hybrid affair: Bletchley had
mock Enigmas which cycled through the
Enigma's ~18k starting positions in a
quarter of an hour, but the Germans
started using a plugboard which then
had ~1.5x10^14 possibilities.  The
Poles noticed that there were some
patterns in the messages which were
only possible via certain plugboard
settings, and so:

> When we have collected several such cards corresponding to different
> initial signals ..., we place them in a pile so that the squares
> corresponding to the same daily settings are aligned and shine a
> light beneath the pile.  Only those squares which let the light
> through will correspond to possible daily settings.

So the brute force hardware allowed
precalculation of "optical" computing
devices which then narrowed down the
possibilities enough for brute force
to again be used for daily decodes,
until:

> On 10 May, the Germans invaded France and, on the same day, in
> accordance with the best cryptographic principles, they changed their
> Enigma procedures in such a way that the 1560 Zygalski sheets, each
> with their carefully drilled 1000 or so holes, became just so much
> waste cardboard.

-Dave

::::::

> > "the first synthetic-aperture-radar processor was optical"

This is also easy to believe, given Dr.
Elachi's description of the 1981 Shuttle
Imaging Radar:

> The received signal is recorded on an optical film which is retrieved
> after landing.  The film ... is then processed in an optical correlator
> to generate the final image.

which makes sense, as one wishes to shift
each component of the return in proportion
to its frequency, for which one presumably
needs a glorified prism.

> Alternatively, the ... signal can be digitized and then recorded on
> board or transmitted to the ground via a digital data link.  This was
> the case with the ... sensor flown in 1984.

::::::

* Koerner, _The Pleasures of Counting_,
in which various aspects of the Enigma
decoding cover four chapters, of which
I quote from two sections of one:
14.2: Beautiful Polish females, and
14.3: Passing the torch
> Churchill's romantic soul loved the excitement and secrecy surrounding
> Bletchley.  He relished the way that
> > [t]he old procedures, like the setting up of agents, the suborning
> > of informants, the sending of messages written in invisible ink,
> > the masquerading, the dressing-up, the secret transmitters, and the
> > examining of the contents of waste-paper baskets, all turned out
> > to be largely cover for this other source, as one might keep some
> > old-established business in rare books going in order to be able,
> > under cover of it, to do a thriving trade in pornography and erotica
> ...
> Looking at the disparate, unkempt and definitely unmilitary crew
> formed by his top code-breakers, he is said to have added to his head
> of Intelligence "I know I told you to leave no stone unturned to find
> the necessary staff, but I did not mean you to take me so literally!"

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0920.cad45fa889324a42667e6da8d3a8006f.eml000066400000000000000000000056371444326627400312170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Oct  3 12:55:19 2002
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gary Lawrence Murphy" 

> 
>     f> What about a situation where you don't directly ask/talk to the
>     f> bot, but they listen in and advise/correct/interject/etc?
> 
> Do you do that?  Do you hear two people at the next table say "I'm
> going to Seattle tomorrow" and you just /have/ to lean over and
> interject compulsively to tell them what you know about Seattle's
> weather?

Have you ever worked with Kragen?


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0921.5a4eee7f38a1451abb6054901280b699.eml000066400000000000000000000060631444326627400310410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Oct  3 12:55:24 2002
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mr. FoRK" 

> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Gary Lawrence Murphy" 
> 
> > 
> >     f> What about a situation where you don't directly ask/talk to the
> >     f> bot, but they listen in and advise/correct/interject/etc?
> > 
> > Do you do that?  Do you hear two people at the next table say "I'm
> > going to Seattle tomorrow" and you just /have/ to lean over and
> > interject compulsively to tell them what you know about Seattle's
> > weather?
> 
Oh, please, quit with all that StopEnergy(tm)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0922.a8294319249f0b1dc50067de2cf937db.eml000066400000000000000000000077341444326627400311340ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Oct  3 12:54:57 2002
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--- begin forwarded text


Status: RO
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 03:21:05 +1000
To: "John S. Denker" 
From: Greg Rose 
Subject: Re: Optical analog computing?
Cc: "R. A. Hettinga" ,
   Digital Bearer Settlement List ,
   cryptography@wasabisystems.com

At 01:30 AM 10/2/2002 -0400, John S. Denker wrote:
>"R. A. Hettinga" wrote:
>...
> > "the first computer to crack enigma was optical"
>1) Bletchley Park used optical sensors, which were (and
>still are) the best way to read paper tape at high speed.
>You can read about it in the standard accounts, e.g.
>   http://www.picotech.com/applications/colossus.html

But Colossus was not for Enigma. The bombes used for Enigma were
electro-mechanical. I'm not aware of any application of optical techniques
to Enigma, unless they were done in the US and are still classified. And
clearly, the first bulk breaks of Enigma were done by the bombes, so I
guess it depends whether you count bombes as computers or not, whether this
statement has any credibility at all.

Greg.



Williams/Zenon 2004 campaign page: http://www.ben4prez.org

Greg Rose                                       INTERNET: ggr@qualcomm.com
Qualcomm Australia          VOICE:  +61-2-9817 4188   FAX: +61-2-9817 5199
Level 3, 230 Victoria Road,                http://people.qualcomm.com/ggr/
Gladesville NSW 2111    232B EC8F 44C6 C853 D68F  E107 E6BF CD2F 1081 A37C

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0923.62f8eb57510330d6658ea55e5d7277df.eml000066400000000000000000000055541444326627400310710ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Oct  3 12:55:27 2002
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Elias Sinderson wrote:
> 802.11b - 11Mbps per channel over three channels in the 2.4GHz range 
> (also shared with microwaves and cordless phones) 

Microwaves, cordless phones and video-based baby monitors....

Greg



-- 
Gregory Alan Bolcer, CTO  | work: +1.949.833.2800
gbolcer at endeavors.com  | http://endeavors.com
Endeavors Technology, Inc.| cell: +1.714.928.5476










golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0924.82e1631cf6ff85106c0d301b99b4e523.eml000066400000000000000000000101071444326627400310340ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Oct  3 12:55:28 2002
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From: Tom 
To: Gregory Alan Bolcer 
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On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Gregory Alan Bolcer wrote:
--]Elias Sinderson wrote:
--]> 802.11b - 11Mbps per channel over three channels in the 2.4GHz range
--]> (also shared with microwaves and cordless phones)
--]
--]Microwaves, cordless phones and video-based baby monitors....

Well I dont have to worry about microwavers in the house. Ours died a week
or so ago and due to doing some research we will nto be getting anysuch
device in the near or far future. I mean even if one half of the crap it
is reported to do is true it s just not worth it for a quick cup or warm
chai.

Which brings me to the fact that finding a good Convection only (not combo
with a microwaver) oven of any good size is dang near impossible unless
you go up to the bizness sizes. thankfully there is Dehlongi of which
costco has thru thier online store.

Now of course the question is do we get it delivered to the old house or
the new one (yep we got our offer approved and are in the short run down
to a long mortage:)  we close on oct 31. though the realestate agent says
t happens like that a lot, I still find it incrediably jolting to have
found a house inthe hood I want with the space dawn wants on sunday and we
are signing papers on tuesday night with a close at the end of the month.

Which of course means....wifi land for wsmf:)- )

So far I like the Linksys dsl/cable router all in one wifi ap. The Dlink
has the funky 22mb stuff IF you use all thier stuff across the net and the
way things go I cant say thats gonna happen for sure. Pluse the Linksys
stuff is all over the mass market sotres so I cna walk home with parts at
any time.

The fun now comes with a realization that with ATTbi cable as my main hose
tot he net offering up bwf might be a tad problematic....So i am thinking
of ways around/through/under that. the setup of the particualrs are far
form set in stone...any ideas would be welcome.

Also any portlanders.....party time.


-tom




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0925.c1066ea70b0e714fcea10b379e32d573.eml000066400000000000000000000055541444326627400311740ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Oct  3 12:55:29 2002
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At 4:34 PM -0400 on 10/2/02, R. A. Hettinga wrote:


> --- begin forwarded text
>
>
> Status: RO
> Delivered-To: fork@example.com

Sigh. Shoot me, now...

My apologies.

Cheers,
RAH

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0926.927a96948e055489893b88ba752c7fae.eml000066400000000000000000000106101444326627400310300ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Oct  3 12:55:30 2002
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From: Tom 
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Over on Arstechnica (www.arstechnica.com) I saw mention of a Wired article
that goes into the many wonderfull ways Apple is showing its love and
respect for its users.

http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,55395,00.html

There is a good rundown of all the whys and whatfores over at
http://arstechnica.com/reviews/02q3/macosx-10.2/macosx-10.2-5.html

"True to form, industrious third party developers saw that they could gain
a competitive advantage by supporting this more capable user interface in
their applications. Apple's private menu extras APIs were reverse
engineered and leveraged to great effect. The architecture was so popular
that an application for managing predefined sets of menu extras (third
party or otherwise) was in development.

All of that changed with the release of Jaguar--but not because the
private APIs had changed. If they had, third party developers would have
updated their applications to work with the new APIs, as they have
resigned themselves to doing by choosing to use private APIs in the first
place.

But what actually happened in Jaguar was that Apple added code to forcibly
exclude all non-Apple menu extras. Other parts of the API did not change.
But when a menu extra is loaded, it is compared to a hard-coded list of
"known" menu extras from Apple. If the menu extra is not on that list, it
is not allowed to load.

It's easy to laugh at Steve Ballmer's sweat-soaked gyrations as he chants
"developers, developers, developers!", but Microsoft clearly understands
something that Apple is still struggling with. It is in a platform
vendor's best interest to encourage development for its platform. In
Apple's case, this doesn't mean that they have to bend over backwards to
make every single system service and UI element "pluggable" via public
APIs. That's clearly a lot of work, and not something that needs to be the
number one priority for an OS in its infancy. And in the meantime, if
third party developers want to sell into a market that requires the
desired functionality to be added in "unsupported" ways, then they must be
prepared for the maintenance consequences of their decisions.

But for Apple to go out of its way--to actually expend developer
effort--to stop these third party developers, while still failing to
provide a supported alternative, is incredibly foolish. "



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0927.3fda95ccbe3f7818f1dfebfddeb2af66.eml000066400000000000000000000146071444326627400320270ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Oct  3 12:55:31 2002
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From: khare@alumni.caltech.edu
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Subject: NYTimes.com Article: Stop Those Presses! Blonds, It Seems, Will
    Survive After All
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This article from NYTimes.com 
has been sent to you by khare@alumni.caltech.edu.


Excellent evidence of the herd. Just imagine if the anonymous noise injected into our world newsphere (noosphere?) was, say, a fraudulent story that a stock accounting scandal had been accused and the evildoers were shorting. 

Oh, wait, that happened. An unemployed Orange County student took down Emulex...

Enjoy!
  Rohit

khare@alumni.caltech.edu


Stop Those Presses! Blonds, It Seems, Will Survive After All

October 2, 2002
By LAWRENCE K. ALTMAN 




 

Apparently it fell into the category "too good to check."


Last Friday, several British newspapers reported that the
World Health Organization had found in a study that blonds
would become extinct within 200 years, because blondness
was caused by a recessive gene that was dying out. The
reports were repeated on Friday by anchors for the ABC News
program "Good Morning America," and on Saturday by CNN. 

There was only one problem, the health organization said in
a statement yesterday that it never reported that blonds
would become extinct, and it had never done a study on the
subject. 

"W.H.O. has no knowledge of how these news reports
originated," said the organization, an agency of the United
Nations based in Geneva, "but would like to stress that we
have no opinion of the future existence of blonds." 

All the news reports, in Britain and the United States,
cited a study from the World Health Organization - "a
blonde-shell study," as The Daily Star of London put it.
But none reported any scientific details from the study or
the names of the scientists who conducted it. 

On "Good Morning America," Charles Gibson began a
conversation with his co-anchor, Diane Sawyer, by saying:
"There's a study from the World Health Organization, this
is for real, that blonds are an endangered species. Women
and men with blond hair, eyebrows and blue eyes, natural
blonds, they say will vanish from the face of the earth
within 200 years, because it is not as strong a gene as
brunets." 

Ms. Sawyer said she was "somewhat of a natural blonde."


Jeffrey Schneider, a spokesman for ABC News, said the
anchors got the information from an ABC producer in London
who said he had read it in a British newspaper. 

In London, The Sun and The Express both reported that
unnamed scientists said blonds would survive longest in
Scandinavia, where they are most concentrated, and expected
the last true blond to hail from Finland. 

The British accounts were replete with the views of
bleached blonds who said hairdressers would never allow
blondness to become extinct, and doctors who said that rare
genes would pop up to keep natural blonds from becoming an
endangered species. 

Journalists in London said last night that the source of
the reports was probably one of several European news
agencies that are used by the British press, but it
remained unclear which one. 

Tim Hall, a night news editor at The Daily Mail, said the
report was probably distributed by The Press Association,
Britain's domestic news agency. "Several papers picked it
up," he said. 

But Charlotte Gapper, night editor at The Press
Association, said that although it had considered running
the report on Sept. 27, it had decided not to after talking
to the World Health Organization. 

"We didn't do that story because we made an inquiry to the
World Health Organization first," she said. "They told us
that report was two years old, and had been covered at the
time. They said it had been picked up again that day by a
German news agency." 

She added that she did not know which agency the
organization was referring to. 

Dr. Ray White, a geneticist at the University of California
at San Francisco, said that the disappearance of a gene for
blond hair "sounds patently incorrect."

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/02/health/02BLON.html?ex=1034599071&ei=1&en=3a0e4f0b2b251593



HOW TO ADVERTISE
---------------------------------
For information on advertising in e-mail newsletters 
or other creative advertising opportunities with The 
New York Times on the Web, please contact
onlinesales@nytimes.com or visit our online media 
kit at http://www.nytimes.com/adinfo

For general information about NYTimes.com, write to 
help@nytimes.com.  

Copyright 2002 The New York Times Company


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0928.bb2dbf50d5b36b5f621764e2ed1cf417.eml000066400000000000000000000060601444326627400313360ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Oct  3 12:55:34 2002
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References: 
    <200210022317.13639.eh@mad.scientist.com>
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X-Home-Page: http://www.teledyn.com
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>>>>> "E" == Eirikur Hallgrimsson  writes:

    E> ...  If my environment cannot be made beautiful, in
    E> some sense I cannot live.

  "The first question I ask myself when something doesn't seem to be
  beautiful is why do I think it's not beautiful. And very shortly you
  discover that there is no reason." -- John Cage

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
  "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0929.78a3fcddf914132d873019c8925b0669.eml000066400000000000000000000076471444326627400310230ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Oct  3 12:55:38 2002
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Well it looks pretty much 99% sure that we will be moving in on Nov 1 to
the new house. I think the only thing that stops us now are acts of
dieties and total economic collapse..so no one mention the dow for the
next few weeks..

In preperation we drove to Best Buy tonight and picked up the test core
for the wifi net. I got a linksys BEFW11S4(1) for the router/hub/wireless
ap/firewall/etc and a linksys wifi pcmcia card for the laptop

I made one false move so it took about 30 mins all told to set up the
card, the router, and the other 3 machines in the house on the wire ether
hub. All vfery neat very easy and very very cool set up via the
webinterface. I have to dig into the firewall/nat/routing features some
more (i have been reading up the wifi security blackpaper on ars technica)
but all in all a smooth move.


Now the place im at now, the house soon to be the ex house, has lots of
funky things going on in the walls and in the area. We are in ,
essentialy, a gravel pit..recption of all types suck and transmisions get
goofy inside the pit.  That being said... with 2 walls and 40 feet between
the AP and the pcmica card (no external antena on it) Im still getting
11mbs and at least 60% goodness.


Some cool things about the new house...its a 1912 job so no metal works
inthe walls to speak of , mostly wood and plaster. We dont have a
microwave and our cordless phines are on 900mhz (yea so I can use my bear
cat to listen in on some calls, with kids in the house is that such a bad
thing? Ben or heather, if you read this years from now...well by then I
hope youare better at countermoeasures:)- )

Ok, enough testing for tonight. I gota say, being able to do this in bed
by vncing via wifi to my desktop is a blast...oh no...wifes pillow is
heading this way....DUCKKKKK


(1)http://www.linksys.com/Products/product.asp?grid=23&prid=173


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0930.e6b90edda75a110d7cc7335c110cfa1c.eml000066400000000000000000000057541444326627400314010ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Oct  3 12:55:31 2002
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On Wednesday 02 October 2002 06:37 pm, Tom wrote: 
> But what actually happened in Jaguar was that Apple added code to
> exclude all non-Apple menu extras.

Too, too, too, true.  Just you try to muck with Job's blessed Aqua 
interface.   Or remove the fscking dock.  OSX is such a step down from 
Classic with Kaleidoscope skinning the entire UI.  As an artist, I resent 
it deeply.   (This is not in praise of Classic.)  If my environment cannot 
be made beautiful, in some sense I cannot live.

Eirikur




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0931.4b656b6718d863aa88ee116bd3fa0d1b.eml000066400000000000000000000071021444326627400312550ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Oct  3 12:55:39 2002
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Subject: The 3rd Annual Consult Hyperion Digital Identity Forum
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--- begin forwarded text


Status: RO
User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.1.0.2006
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 07:56:39 +0100
Subject: The 3rd Annual Consult Hyperion Digital Identity Forum
From: "David G.W. Birch" 
To: Bob Hettinga 
Cc: Digital Bearer Settlement List 

Dear All,

See www.digitalidentityforum.com for more details. Speakers include
Microsoft and Liberty Alliance, UK central and local government, law
enforcement, financial services (Egg and RBS/NatWest), EC Research Centre, a
psychologist and others. Look forward to seeing you there.

Regards,
Dave Birch.

-- 
-- David Birch, Director, Consult Hyperion
-- 
-- tel +44 (0)1483 301793, fax +44 (0)1483 561657
-- mail dave@chyp.com, web http://www.chyp.com
-- 
-- See you at the 2nd Annual Digital Transactions Forum in Singapore
-- October 16th/17th 2002, see http://www.digitaltransactionsforum.com/

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0932.13ae6a0c179018c3e955c626b48fd069.eml000066400000000000000000000067441444326627400310560ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Oct  3 12:56:11 2002
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	      QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_MULTIHOP_DSBL,
	      RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,
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At 1:16 AM -0400 on 10/3/02, Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:


>   "The first question I ask myself when something doesn't seem to be
>   beautiful is why do I think it's not beautiful. And very shortly you
>   discover that there is no reason." -- John Cage

"When I'm working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I think only
how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not
beautiful, I know it is wrong."  -- R. Buckminster Fuller

"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all
difficulties." -- Frederic Chopin

"Externalities are the last refuge of the dirigistes." -- Friedrich Hayek

-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"The stoical scheme of supplying our wants by lopping off our
desires is like cutting off our feet when we want shoes."
 -- Jonathan Swift


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0934.e85452a78cc528b9b99dac7ae0af5d82.eml000066400000000000000000000064421444326627400313670ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Oct  3 16:08:08 2002
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To: "R. A. Hettinga" 
Cc: Eirikur Hallgrimsson , fork@example.com,
	Digital Bearer Settlement List 
Subject: Re: Apple Sauced...again
References: 
    <200210022317.13639.eh@mad.scientist.com> 
    
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
X-Home-Page: http://www.teledyn.com
Organization: TCI Business Innovation through Open Source Computing
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	version=2.50-cvs
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>>>>> "R" == R A Hettinga  writes:

    R> "When I'm working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I
    R> think only how to solve the problem. But when I have finished,
    R> if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong."  --
    R> R. Buckminster Fuller

"It was only /after/ I'd completed the geodesic dome that I noticed it
was beautiful" --- R. Buckminster Fuller

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
  "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0935.69777ef80c3f27b435944189c6f07bc0.eml000066400000000000000000000053201444326627400310120ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Oct  3 19:30:06 2002
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Message-Id: <3D9C760E.3D49B993@Golux.Com>
From: Rodent of Unusual Size 
Organization: The Apache Software Foundation
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (WinNT; U)
X-Accept-Language: en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Flatware or Road Kill? 
Subject: Re: The Wrong Business
References: 
    <3D99DEF1.1020709@endeavors.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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	      SIGNATURE_SHORT_SPARSE,T_NONSENSE_FROM_60_70,
	      USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_XM,X_ACCEPT_LANG
	version=2.50-cvs
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people with too much time on their hands..

look at this first (8meg, so takes a loong time):

http://www.ntk.net/2002/09/27/jesus_large.jpg

and then look at this reduction:

http://www.ntk.net/2002/09/27/jesus_small.jpg
-- 
#ken	P-)}

Ken Coar, Sanagendamgagwedweinini  http://Golux.Com/coar/
Author, developer, opinionist      http://Apache-Server.Com/

"Millennium hand and shrimp!"


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0936.fd3d57ba85e83cca7b17ff92667a05eb.eml000066400000000000000000000056621444326627400314500ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Oct  3 19:30:12 2002
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To: Rodent of Unusual Size 
Cc: Flatware or Road Kill? 
Subject: Re: The Wrong Business
References: 
    <3D99DEF1.1020709@endeavors.com> <3D9C760E.3D49B993@Golux.Com>
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
X-Home-Page: http://www.teledyn.com
Organization: TCI Business Innovation through Open Source Computing
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	      SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE,T_NONSENSE_FROM_30_40
	version=2.50-cvs
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Actually this is output from an old java program called jitter.
It's very useful for those of us with digital cameras who end up
taking 50+ pictures a day while on vacation ;)

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
  "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0937.48b048dffa327b97d0ca68cd19d254ea.eml000066400000000000000000000057011444326627400313540ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Oct  3 20:13:50 2002
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Received: from localhost (jalapeno [127.0.0.1])
	by jmason.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 753FE16F03
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	by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0)
	for jm@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 03 Oct 2002 20:13:50 +0100 (IST)
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To: "Gordon Mohr" 
Cc: "Flatware or Road Kill?" 
Subject: Re: The Wrong Business
References: 
    <3D99DEF1.1020709@endeavors.com> <3D9C760E.3D49B993@Golux.Com>
     <00da01c26b0d$1d456830$640a000a@golden>
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
X-Home-Page: http://www.teledyn.com
Organization: TCI Business Innovation through Open Source Computing
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	      SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE,T_NONSENSE_FROM_30_40
	version=2.50-cvs
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egad ... you mean there's two of them???  I knew there was a reason
my jobs board had jumped to the top of my traffic list.

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
  "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0938.f0908eafe6ec23a6f3067e2f19432fb2.eml000066400000000000000000000110061444326627400312650ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Oct  4 11:03:48 2002
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	by jmason.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 041BB16F1B
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To: dcsb@ai.mit.edu, cryptography@wasabisystems.com,
	mac_crypto@vmeng.com, e$@vmeng.com, fork@xent.com, irregulars@tb.tf
From: "R. A. Hettinga" 
Subject: Re: The 3rd Annual Consult Hyperion Digital Identity Forum
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	      QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_MULTIHOP_DSBL,
	      RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_00_10
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--- begin forwarded text


Status:  U
To: rah@shipwright.com
From: hacker@vudu.net
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 06:01:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: The 3rd Annual Consult Hyperion Digital Identity Forum



The guy messed up his own URL. It should be
http://www.digitalidforum.com which redirects to
http://www.consult.hyperion.co.uk/digid3.html


"R. A. Hettinga" wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> See www.digitalidentityforum.com for more details. Speakers
include
> Microsoft and Liberty Alliance, UK central and local government,
> law
> enforcement, financial services (Egg and RBS/NatWest), EC
Research
> Centre, a
> psychologist and others. Look forward to seeing you there.
>
> Regards,
> Dave Birch.
>
> --
> -- David Birch, Director, Consult Hyperion
> --
> -- tel +44 (0)1483 301793, fax +44 (0)1483 561657
> -- mail dave@chyp.com, web http://www.chyp.com
> --
> -- See you at the 2nd Annual Digital Transactions Forum in
> Singapore
> -- October 16th/17th 2002, see
> http://www.digitaltransactionsforum.com/
>
> --- end forwarded text
>
>
> --
> -----------------
> R. A. Hettinga <mailto: rah@ibuc.com>
> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation <http://www.ibuc.com/>;
> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
> "... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and
> antiquity,
> [predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
> experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the
Roman
> Empire'
>
> For help on using this list (especially unsubscribing), send a
> message to
> "dcsb-request@reservoir.com" with one line of text:
"help".

--- end forwarded text


-- 
-----------------
R. A. Hettinga 
The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation 
44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
"... however it may deserve respect for its usefulness and antiquity,
[predicting the end of the world] has not been found agreeable to
experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0940.459f634086ae8d4e277d7e9281406685.eml000066400000000000000000000060721444326627400306620ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Oct  4 11:03:56 2002
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To: "Stephen D. Williams" 
Cc: fork@example.com
Subject: Re: Living Love - Another legacy of the 60's
References: <3D9CB788.6050602@lig.net>
From: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
X-Home-Page: http://www.teledyn.com
Organization: TCI Business Innovation through Open Source Computing
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Reply-To: Gary Lawrence Murphy 
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	version=2.50-cvs
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>>>>> "S" == Stephen D Williams  writes:

    S> The purpose of our lives is to be free of all addictive traps,
    S> and thus become one with the ocean of Living Love.

"One choice is a psychosis.  Two, a neurosis" -- Ven Joan Shikai
Woodward, Northern Mountain Order of the White Wind Zen Community

just a thought.

(oh, yes, the bits: Women in Zen - http://lhamo.tripod.com/2zen.htm)

-- 
Gary Lawrence Murphy - garym@teledyn.com - TeleDynamics Communications
 - blog: http://www.auracom.com/~teledyn - biz: http://teledyn.com/ -
  "Computers are useless. They can only give you answers." (Picasso)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0941.1277e2e301e3e7663705ffb922215395.eml000066400000000000000000000106361444326627400306310ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Oct  4 11:03:47 2002
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Normally, I disdain any kind of mysticism, even when it is associated 
with fairly good ideas.  Just a big turnoff.  A good example would be 
the difference between Yoga/TM and the more scientifically pure, but 
related, relaxation techniques including "betagenics", 
hypnosis/auto-hypnosis, etc.  (This was one of the many topics I 
obsessively absorbed as a teenager.)  Or Tai Chi etc. vs. Tai Bo / 
G-Force Dyno-Staff.

I have to say however that, having found this while looking for 
something completely unrelated, it has some cute truisms.  I 
particularly like their addiction to non-addiction.  Additionally, the 
Mindprod treehugger site has some interesting quotes, etc.

To my internal ear, nearly all of these 60's based new-age vernacular 
seem to assume that you are a simple child (of the 60's?) who needs some 
religion-like couching of ideas to relate and internalize.  Very 
irritating, but taken in small doses it's interesting to compare and 
contrast with our (my) modern mental models.

I found that a few of the principles could be used to explain and 
justify US/UN foreign policy and actions.

http://mindprod.com/methods.html
http://members.aol.com/inossence/Kenkey.html
http://www.mindprod.com/
(Apologies for the embedded HTML.)

We create the world we live in.
A loving person lives in a loving world,
A hostile person lives in a hostile world.
Everyone you meet is your mirror.

You make yourself and others suffer just as much when you take offence 
as when you give offence. To be upset over what you don't have is to 
waste what you do have.

The past is dead,
The future is imaginary,
Happiness can only be
in the Eternal Now Moment

How soon will you realize that the only thing you don't have is the 
direct experience that there's nothing you need that you don't have.

Love a person because he or she is there.
This is the only reason.

Happiness happens when your consciousness is not dominated by addictions 
and demands~ and you experience life as a parade of preferences.

The
purpose
of our lives
is to be free
of all addictive traps,
and thus
become one
with the ocean of
Living Love.


sdw

-- 
sdw@lig.net http://sdw.st
Stephen D. Williams 43392 Wayside Cir,Ashburn,VA 20147-4622
703-724-0118W 703-995-0407Fax Dec2001




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0942.dde76db87ad1670783cc76def075f6c0.eml000066400000000000000000000136301444326627400313640ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Oct  4 11:04:19 2002
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From: "Geege Schuman" 
To: "Stephen D. Williams" , 
Subject: RE: Living Love - Another legacy of the 60's
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draw the pain

"Ken never wrote about this method, but he often demonstrated it in
workshops. Let us say you have a physical pain somewhere in your body. You
draw the pain in the air with your finger, about 30 cm (1 foot) high. Take
about 60 seconds to trace around the perimeter of the pain, carefully
listening to the pain to find the precise boundary between where it hurts
and where it does not. Repeat. You will find that after about 10 minutes of
this the pain will shift, shrink or disappear. A variant of this is to
imagine making a 3D model the pain in coloured clay."

Works!  There's this coworker - a real pain in my ass!  I used my middle
finger to trace his outline for about 60 seconds.  I listened to him, found
the boundary, and repeated the motion.  He left my office!


-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of
Stephen D. Williams
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 5:33 PM
To: fork@example.com
Subject: Living Love - Another legacy of the 60's


Normally, I disdain any kind of mysticism, even when it is associated
with fairly good ideas.  Just a big turnoff.  A good example would be
the difference between Yoga/TM and the more scientifically pure, but
related, relaxation techniques including "betagenics",
hypnosis/auto-hypnosis, etc.  (This was one of the many topics I
obsessively absorbed as a teenager.)  Or Tai Chi etc. vs. Tai Bo /
G-Force Dyno-Staff.

I have to say however that, having found this while looking for
something completely unrelated, it has some cute truisms.  I
particularly like their addiction to non-addiction.  Additionally, the
Mindprod treehugger site has some interesting quotes, etc.

To my internal ear, nearly all of these 60's based new-age vernacular
seem to assume that you are a simple child (of the 60's?) who needs some
religion-like couching of ideas to relate and internalize.  Very
irritating, but taken in small doses it's interesting to compare and
contrast with our (my) modern mental models.

I found that a few of the principles could be used to explain and
justify US/UN foreign policy and actions.

http://mindprod.com/methods.html
http://members.aol.com/inossence/Kenkey.html
http://www.mindprod.com/
(Apologies for the embedded HTML.)

We create the world we live in.
A loving person lives in a loving world,
A hostile person lives in a hostile world.
Everyone you meet is your mirror.

You make yourself and others suffer just as much when you take offence
as when you give offence. To be upset over what you don't have is to
waste what you do have.

The past is dead,
The future is imaginary,
Happiness can only be
in the Eternal Now Moment

How soon will you realize that the only thing you don't have is the
direct experience that there's nothing you need that you don't have.

Love a person because he or she is there.
This is the only reason.

Happiness happens when your consciousness is not dominated by addictions
and demands~ and you experience life as a parade of preferences.

The
purpose
of our lives
is to be free
of all addictive traps,
and thus
become one
with the ocean of
Living Love.


sdw

--
sdw@lig.net http://sdw.st
Stephen D. Williams 43392 Wayside Cir,Ashburn,VA 20147-4622
703-724-0118W 703-995-0407Fax Dec2001








golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0943.8e0d99659137e5ae2a5b47a557029095.eml000066400000000000000000000055411444326627400307300ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Oct  4 11:04:24 2002
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Subject: Re: ActiveBuddy
From: Lorin Rivers 
To: "Mr. FoRK" , FoRK List 
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On 10/2/02 12:00 PM, "Mr. FoRK"  wrote:
> What about a situation where you don't directly ask/talk to the bot, but
> they listen in and advise/correct/interject/etc?
> example: two people discussing trips, etc. may trigger a weather bot to
> mention what the forecast says - without directly being asked.

My guess is it's more insidious than that, it's going to be ActiveSpam.

"Oh, you're going to Seattle? I can get you airline tickets for less"

Yuck
-- 
peregrine   \PEH-ruh-grun or PEH-ruh-green\   (adjective)
     : having a tendency to wander



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0944.17f20b8ad4ea51e366873fa551ad20da.eml000066400000000000000000000047251444326627400312550ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Oct  4 11:03:59 2002
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Hello Fork,

  http://www.pimprig.com/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=72&page=2

  This kid has -way- WAY too much time on his hands.

-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                          mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0945.1a86d4f67991ad5793a17ba1863edd17.eml000066400000000000000000000050411444326627400311410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Oct  4 18:19:34 2002
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Not exactly new bits, but I enjoyed seeing The Economist
pick up on the similarity between computer and social
networks:

http://www.economist.com/science/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1365118




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0946.eb5e7c2de78b6fec81e509923689a7a4.eml000066400000000000000000000113161444326627400313170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Fri Oct  4 18:19:18 2002
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--------------080209060700030309080805
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I actually thought of this kind of active chat at AOL (in 1996 I think), 
bringing up ads based on what was being discussed and other features. 
For a while, the VP of dev. (now still CTO I think) was really hot on 
the idea and they discussed patenting it. Then they lost interest. 
Probably a good thing.

sdw

Lorin Rivers wrote:

>On 10/2/02 12:00 PM, "Mr. FoRK"  wrote:
>  
>
>>What about a situation where you don't directly ask/talk to the bot, but
>>they listen in and advise/correct/interject/etc?
>>example: two people discussing trips, etc. may trigger a weather bot to
>>mention what the forecast says - without directly being asked.
>>    
>>
>
>My guess is it's more insidious than that, it's going to be ActiveSpam.
>
>"Oh, you're going to Seattle? I can get you airline tickets for less"
>
>Yuck
>  
>


--------------080209060700030309080805
Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit




  


I actually thought of this kind of active chat at AOL (in 1996 I think),
bringing up ads based on what was being discussed and other features.  For
a while, the VP of dev. (now still CTO I think) was really hot on the idea
and they discussed patenting it.  Then they lost interest.  Probably a good
thing.



sdw



Lorin Rivers wrote:



  
On 10/2/02 12:00 PM, "Mr. FoRK" <fork_list@hotmail.com> wrote:
  

  

    
What about a situation where you don't directly ask/talk to the bot, but
they listen in and advise/correct/interject/etc?
example: two people discussing trips, etc. may trigger a weather bot to
mention what the forecast says - without directly being asked.
    

  

  

My guess is it's more insidious than that, it's going to be ActiveSpam.

"Oh, you're going to Seattle? I can get you airline tickets for less"

Yuck
  








--------------080209060700030309080805--


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0947.9c6bd8643ae9c4b42fb7292840103704.eml000066400000000000000000000045071444326627400307750ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Oct  5 12:38:43 2002
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From: Carey 
Subject: Headline - Navel gazing wins an Ig Nobel
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Greetings,

Carey wants you to know about a story on www.theage.com.au


Personal Message:
Ah the Ig Nobels, always worth a read :)  If only they had a cat-mood decipherer.  ^__^

Navel gazing wins an Ig Nobel
By Jay Lindsay 
Boston
October 05 2002

URL: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/10/04/1033538774048.html


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0948.5631ef817c7329bc8773800c1664b88d.eml000066400000000000000000000103311444326627400307260ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Oct  5 12:38:45 2002
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... nor what color your passport?

More American exceptionalism:


> "The United States is the only country in the world to tax its citizens
> on a worldwide basis, irrespective of whether they spend time in the
> country or whether they have assets there," said Philip Marcovici,
> a Zurich-based lawyer with international law firm Baker and Mackenzie.

and perhaps even irrespective of their
current citizenship:

> Under current expatriation law, there are wealth thresholds based on
> net worth which lead to a presumption that a person giving up U.S.
> citizenship is doing so for tax reasons.
>
> Individuals who have given up their citizenship and who have earned
> $100,000 in any one of the 10 years before expatriation, or who have a
> net worth exceeding $500,000, would automatically be deemed a so-called
> "taxpatriate." Those persons would be subject to ordinary income tax
> on U.S. source income for 10 years. They would also be subject to
> U.S. estate and gift tax during the 10-year period.

I suppose it could be much worse;
there could be some twee affinity
program for US citizenship, and a
bank of phone people who only get
paid well if they manage to keep
one from cancelling membership...

-Dave

:::::::

> Last month, Congress proposed a new exit tax on all citizens who give up
> their U.S. status. If the proposal becomes law, individuals will be taxed
> as if they had either sold everything or died. This would give rise to
> immediate exposure to capital gains tax.

To be fair, would this mean that they'd
also immediately pay out the difference
for anyone whose tax basis was greater
than current estate value?

:::::::


> ... Australian cities overall scored particularly highly in the
> [Economist Intelligence Unit] survey [of desirability for expats],
> with all five the country's urban centres surveyed ranked near the
> top of the table.
> 
> Europe was also well represented among the top 10 places. 
> 
> The top US city, Honolulu, ranked 21st, with Boston, at 28th, the
> highest ranked city on the US mainland. Canada, in contrast, sneaked
> three cities into the top ten.
> 
> The UK cities of London, 44th, and Manchester, 50th, gained only a
> mid-table rating, with Port Moresby in Papua New Guinea bottom of
> the list.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0949.1cee872e94767b14f2211bf240ccb459.eml000066400000000000000000000075471444326627400311440ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Oct  5 12:38:46 2002
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Don't know much about eRoom - but there is the magic phrase 'collaborate in
real-time'... Groove really has people running scared. Wonder if any users
actually /benefit/ from collaborating in real-time.


===
http://www.internetwk.com/breakingNews/INW20021004S0001

Content-management vendor Documentum said late Thursday it plans to acquire
privately held e-Room Technologies in a deal worth about $100 million.

Documentum will issue approximately 7.7 million shares of its common stock
and pay about $12.6 million in cash for all of the outstanding shares of
eRoom.

Documentum makes a platform for enterprise-wide content management. ERoom
makes tools for enterprise collaboration. Its customers include Airbus,
Bausch & Lomb, Ford Motor Co., and Sony.

Documentum announced plans this summer to deliver a new Collaboration
Edition of its content-management suite. ERoom was already integrating its
tools to the Documentum platform, making an acquisition an easy target,
according to Documentum president and CEO Dave DeWalt.

With the upcoming joint product, customers will be able to collaborate in
real-time via virtual workspaces, sharing schedules, resources, and even
jointly creating content.

Content creation and management has always been a collaborative task, but
workflow has usually been delivered via a Web browser interface or even
simple e-mail -- and rarely in real-time.

For now, Documentum will sell the eRoom platform and its own
content-management system through combined sales channels. Further
integration is planned down the line, the companies said.



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0950.11a0d8e3ec6c9a15acd578868f7508b0.eml000066400000000000000000000061361444326627400312130ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: irregulars-admin@tb.tf  Sat Oct  5 12:38:48 2002
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Subject: [IRR] Re: The 3rd Annual Consult Hyperion Digital Identity Forum
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On 4/10/02 1:13 am, someone e-said:

> The guy messed up his own URL. It should be
> http://www.digitalidforum.com which redirects to
> http://www.consult.hyperion.co.uk/digid3.html

I didn't mess it up: I f*cked it up by not paying attention to a
copy-and-paste from something else.

Next time, I really will leave it to the PR guys.

Best regards,
Dave Birch.

_______________________________________________
Irregulars mailing list
Irregulars@tb.tf
http://tb.tf/mailman/listinfo/irregulars


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0951.542debe6e20315751c6e2c9bdedff85d.eml000066400000000000000000000105741444326627400314350ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Oct  5 12:38:50 2002
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"Groove really has people running scared"

....oh shit here comes that Groove thingy, run for your life ;-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mr. FoRK" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 8:12 PM
Subject: Documentum Acquires E-Room, Melding Content, Collaboration


>
> Don't know much about eRoom - but there is the magic phrase 'collaborate
in
> real-time'... Groove really has people running scared. Wonder if any users
> actually /benefit/ from collaborating in real-time.
>
>
> ===
> http://www.internetwk.com/breakingNews/INW20021004S0001
>
> Content-management vendor Documentum said late Thursday it plans to
acquire
> privately held e-Room Technologies in a deal worth about $100 million.
>
> Documentum will issue approximately 7.7 million shares of its common stock
> and pay about $12.6 million in cash for all of the outstanding shares of
> eRoom.
>
> Documentum makes a platform for enterprise-wide content management. ERoom
> makes tools for enterprise collaboration. Its customers include Airbus,
> Bausch & Lomb, Ford Motor Co., and Sony.
>
> Documentum announced plans this summer to deliver a new Collaboration
> Edition of its content-management suite. ERoom was already integrating its
> tools to the Documentum platform, making an acquisition an easy target,
> according to Documentum president and CEO Dave DeWalt.
>
> With the upcoming joint product, customers will be able to collaborate in
> real-time via virtual workspaces, sharing schedules, resources, and even
> jointly creating content.
>
> Content creation and management has always been a collaborative task, but
> workflow has usually been delivered via a Web browser interface or even
> simple e-mail -- and rarely in real-time.
>
> For now, Documentum will sell the eRoom platform and its own
> content-management system through combined sales channels. Further
> integration is planned down the line, the companies said.
>
>
>



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0952.6f0f3423c7dc865f508bb35e2cc1bf8d.eml000066400000000000000000000061411444326627400313460ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Oct  5 12:39:20 2002
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Does anyone know what happened to vCard support in Netscape 7.0/Mozilla 
1.1?
 (Not there yet in Mozilla and therefore not in the new mail engine I 
presume?)

Netscape Messenger/Mozilla have LDAP LDIF import/export, but I can't 
find vCard or a reference to it anywhere.  I like the Netscape/Mozilla 
email client.  I avoid LookOut for at least two reasons: Windows Only 
(my main environment is Linux with 30% on Windows) and security issues.

Now that LDAP, and the related DSML and DNS SRV record methods, are 
becoming more popular, is there a decline of vCard?
Is there a standard emerging to deal with the mismatch in naming between 
the two?

I've brushed with directories in the past, but I'm getting in deep along 
with more PKI oriented focus.  Any wisdom would be appreciated.  In 
particular, I'm going to start integrating smart cards into my linux and 
Win32 systems and integrating them with Netscape Messenger/Mozilla and 
Outlook.

Thanks
sdw



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0953.31be50aa4dfd43d0f597afe9968977b7.eml000066400000000000000000000067761444326627400313300ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sat Oct  5 12:39:24 2002
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From: "Geege Schuman" 
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Subject: RE: Headline - Navel gazing wins an Ig Nobel
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"British scientists were honoured for research that found ostriches became
more amorous with each other when a human was around. In fact, ostriches
eventually started putting the moves on humans."

this is true of manatees also.  you don't want to know.

-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of Carey
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 2:03 PM
To: fork@example.com
Subject: Headline - Navel gazing wins an Ig Nobel


Greetings,

Carey wants you to know about a story on www.theage.com.au


Personal Message:
Ah the Ig Nobels, always worth a read :)  If only they had a cat-mood
decipherer.  ^__^

Navel gazing wins an Ig Nobel
By Jay Lindsay 
Boston
October 05 2002

URL: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/10/04/1033538774048.html





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Geege Schuman wrote:

>"British scientists were honoured for research that found ostriches became
>more amorous with each other when a human was around. In fact, ostriches
>eventually started putting the moves on humans."
>
>this is true of manatees also.  you don't want to know.
>
>  
>
So how much of it is due to jumping the inter-species boundary for 
STATUS - i.e. I can fuck any of several
reasonable candidates from my own species, or I can  be ambitious, and 
go after the authority figure in the room.
The alternative hypothesis is that its due to novelty, and then of 
course, there's the "they'll fuck anything  given
appropriate conditions." Hmmm, is this a potential intelligence test, 
seeing as the last is a particularily human response?

Owen




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The structure of the Internet has never
been about where the ditches and ruts
are dug although the world needs
ditch diggers too.

It's a simple inductive concept:
You are you and see the world as such,
You plus 1 degree of separation is a new you.

All this stuff about scale-free Internets, viruses,
sex, and money is silly.  Scale-free statistically
indistinguishable models really means Internet-Scale
as rediscovered by social networks people.

> Research has shown that the network of human sexual partners 
 > seems to be scale-free, too

I tend to prefer the Harvard Business Review
to the Economist as they tend to spend less
time writing about who's sleeping with whom and
come up with real statistical models.

Greg

Lies, Damn lies, and statistics.


Russell Turpin wrote:
> Not exactly new bits, but I enjoyed seeing The Economist
> pick up on the similarity between computer and social
> networks:
> 
> http://www.economist.com/science/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1365118
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
> 
> 


-- 
Gregory Alan Bolcer, CTO  | work: +1.949.833.2800
gbolcer at endeavors.com  | http://endeavors.com
Endeavors Technology, Inc.| cell: +1.714.928.5476










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Gary Lawrence Murphy wrote:
> R. Buckminster Fuller
> 
> "It was only /after/ I'd completed the geodesic dome that I noticed it
> was beautiful" --- R. Buckminster Fuller


I had cited the information theoretic concept of "elegance"
in my dissertation & did a Google to find the reference and instead
found a really great tech report for UoT Knoxville by Bruce
MacLennan.  He cites Efficiency, Economy, and Elegance, but
I think he's wrong.  The middle E should be Effectiveness. 
Otherwise kudos.


Efficiency is the relation of output to input effectiveness is
the total output.  In information theory, something is both elegant
and efficient if no smaller or less costly something can product the 
same output in the same amount of time. 

Greg

[1] http://www.cs.utk.edu/~mclennan/anon-ftp/Elegance.html

``Who Cares About Elegance?''

        The Role of Aesthetics in Programming Language Design 

                           Technical Report UT-CS-97-344

                                 Bruce J. MacLennan

                            Computer Science Department
                           University of Tennessee, Knoxville
                               MacLennan@cs.utk.edu 

Abstract

The crucial role played by aesthetics in programming language design and the importance of elegance in
programming languages are defended on the basis of analogies with structural engineering, as presented in
Billington's The Tower and the Bridge. 

This report may be used for any nonprofit purpose provided that its source is acknowledged. It will be adapted
for
inclusion in the third edition of my Principles of Programming Languages. 


   1.The Value of Analogies 
   2.Efficiency Seeks to Minimize Resources Used 
   3.Economy Seeks to Maximize Benefit versus Cost 
   4.Elegance Symbolizes Good Design 
       1.For the Designer 
       2.For the User 
   5.The Programming Language as Work Environment 
   6.Acquiring a Sense of Elegance 
   7.References 



The Value of Analogies

Programming language design is a comparatively new activity - it has existed for less than half a century, so
it is
often worthwhile to look to older design disciplines to understand better this new activity. Thus, my book
Principles of Programming Languages: Design, Evaluation, and Implementation, grew out of a study of teaching
methods in architecture, primarily, but also of pedagogy in other disciplines, such as aircraft design.
Perhaps you
have also seen analogies drawn between programming languages and cars (FORTRAN = Model T, C = dune
buggy, etc.). 

These analogies can be very informative, and can serve as ``intuition pumps'' to enhance our creativity, but
they
cannot be used uncritically because they are, in the end, just analogies. Ultimately our design decisions must
be
based on more than analogies, since analogies can be misleading as well as informative. 

In this essay I'll address the role of aesthetics in programming language design, but I will base my remarks
on a
book about structural engineering, The Tower and the Bridge, by David P. Billington. Although there are many
differences between bridges and programming languages, we will find that many ideas and insights transfer
rather
directly. 

According to Billington, there are three values common to many technological activities, which we can call
``the
three E's'': Efficiency, Economy and Elegance. These values correspond to three dimensions of technology,
which
Billington calls the scientific, social and symbolic dimensions (the three S's). We will consider each in
turn. 


Efficiency Seeks to Minimize Resources Used

In structural engineering, efficiency deals with the amount of material used; the basic criterion is safety
and the
issues are scientific (strength of materials, disposition of forces, etc.). Similarly, in programming language
design,
efficiency is a scientific question dealing with the use of resources. There are many examples where
efficiency
considerations influenced programming language design (some are reviewed in my Principles of Programming
Languages). In the early days, the resources to be minimized were often runtime memory usage and processing
time, although compile-time resource utilization was also relevant. In other cases the resource economized was
programmer typing time, and there are well-known cases in which this compromised safety (e.g. FORTRAN's
implicit declarations). There are also many well-known cases in which security (i.e. safety) was sacrificed
for the
sake of efficiency by neglecting runtime error checking (e.g. array bounds checking). 

Efficiency issues often can be quantified in terms of computer memory or time, but we must be careful that we
are
not comparing apples and oranges. Compile time is not interchangeable run time, and neither one is the same as
programmer time. Similarly, computer memory cannot be traded off against computer time unless both are
reduced to a common denominator, such as money, but this brings in economic considerations, to which we now
turn. 


Economy Seeks to Maximize Benefit versus Cost

Whereas efficiency is a scientific issue, economy is a social issue. In structural engineering, economy seeks
to
maximize social benefit compared to its cost. (This is especially appropriate since structures like bridges
are
usually built at public expense for the benefit of the public.) In programming language design, the ``public''
that
must be satisfied is the programming community that will use the language and the institutions for which these
programmers work. 

Economic tradeoffs are hard to make because economic values change and are difficult to predict. For example,
the shift from first to second generation programming languages was largely a result of a decrease in the cost
of
computer time compared to programmer time, the shift from the second to the third generation involved the
increasing cost of residual bugs in programs, and the fourth generation reflected the increasing cost of
program
maintenance compared to program development. 

Other social factors involved in the success or failure of a programming language include: whether major
manufacturers support the language, whether prestigious universities teach it, whether it is approved in some
way
by influential organizations (such as the US Department of Defense), whether it has been standardized, whether
it
comes to be perceived as a ``real'' language (used by ``real programmers'') or as a ``toy'' language (used by
novices
or dilettantes), and so forth. As can be seen from the historical remarks in my Principles, social factors are
frequently more important than scientific factors in determining the success or failure of a programming
language. 

Often economic issues can be quantified in terms of money, but the monetary values of costs and benefits are
often
unstable and unpredictable because they depend on changing market forces. Also, many social issues, from
dissatisfaction with poorly designed software to human misery resulting from system failures, are inaccurately
represented by the single dimension of monetary cost. All kinds of ``cost'' and ``benefit'' must be considered
in
seeking an economical design. 


Elegance Symbolizes Good Design

``Elegance? Who cares about elegance?'' snorts the hard-nosed engineer, but Billington shows clearly the
critical
role of elegance in ``hard-nosed'' engineering. 

For the Designer

It is well-known that feature interaction poses a serious problem for language designers because of the
difficulty
of analyzing all the possible interactions of features in a language (see my Principles for examples).
Structural
engineers face similar problems of analytic complexity, but Billington observes that the best designers don't
make
extensive use of computer models and calculation. 

One reason is that mathematical analysis is always incomplete. The engineer must make a decision about which
variables are significant and which are not, and an analysis may lead to incorrect conclusions if this
decision is not
made well. Also, equations are often simplified (e.g., made linear) to make their analysis feasible, and this
is
another potential source of error. Because of these limitations, engineers that depend on mathematical
analysis
may overdesign a structure to compensate for unforeseen effects left out of the analysis. Thus the price of
safety is
additional material and increased cost (i.e. decreased efficiency and economy). 

Similarly in programming language design, the limitations of the analytic approach often force us to make a
choice between an under-engineered design, in which we run the risk of unanticipated interactions, and an
over-engineered design, in which we have confidence, but which is inefficient or uneconomical. 

Many people have seen the famous film of the collapse in 1940 of the four-month-old Tacoma Narrows bridge; it
vibrated itself to pieces in a storm because aerodynamical stability had not been considered in its design.
Billington explains that this accident, along with a number of less dramatic bridge failures, was a
consequence of
an increasing use of theoretical analyses that began in the 1920s. However, the very problem that destroyed
the
Tacoma Narrows bridge had been anticipated and avoided a century before by bridge designers who were guided
by aesthetic principles. 

According to Billington, the best structural engineers do not rely on mathematical analysis (although they do
not
abandon it altogether). Rather, their design activity is guided by a sense of elegance. This is because
solutions to
structural engineering problems are usually greatly underdetermined, that is, there are many possible
solutions to a
particular problem, such as bridging a particular river. Therefore, expert designers restrict their attention
to
designs in which the interaction of the forces is easy to see. The design looks unbalanced if the forces are
unbalanced, and the design looks stable if it is stable. 

The general principle is that designs that look good will also be good, and therefore the design process can
be
guided by aesthetics without extensive (but incomplete) mathematical analysis. Billington expresses this idea
by
inverting the old architectural maxim and asserting that, in structural design, function follows form. He adds
(p.
21), ``When the form is well chosen, its analysis becomes astoundingly simple.'' In other words, the choice of
form is open and free, so we should pick forms where elegant design expresses good design (i.e. efficient and
economical design). If we do so, then we can let aesthetics guide design. 

The same applies to programming language design. By restricting our attention to designs in which the
interaction
of features is manifest - in which good interactions look good, and bad interactions look bad - we can let our
aesthetic sense guide our design and we can be much more confident that we have a good design, without having
to
check all the possible interactions. 

For the User

In this case, what's good for the designer also is good for the user. Nobody is comfortable crossing a bridge
that
looks like it will collapse at any moment, and nobody is comfortable using a programming language in which
features may ``explode'' if combined in the wrong way. The manifest balance of forces in a well-designed
bridge
gives us confidence when we cross it. So also, the manifestly good design of our programming language should
reinforce our confidence when we program in it, because we have (well-justified) confidence in the
consequences
of our actions. 

We accomplish little by covering an unbalanced structure in a beautiful facade. When the bridge is unable to
sustain the load for which it was designed, and collapses, it won't much matter that it was beautiful on the
outside.
So also in programming languages. If the elegance is only superficial, that is, if it is not the manifestation
of a
deep coherence in the design, then programmers will quickly see through the illusion and loose their
(unwarranted)
confidence. 

In summary, good designers choose to work in a region of the design space where good designs look good. As a
consequence, these designers can rely on their aesthetic sense, as can the users of the structures (bridges or
programming languages) they design. We may miss out on some good designs this way, but they are of limited
value unless both the designer and the user can be confident that they are good designs. We may summarize the
preceding discussion in a maxim analogous to those in my Principles of Programming Languages: 
                                The Elegance Principle

              Confine your attention to designs that look good because they are good. 



The Programming Language as Work Environment

There are other reasons that elegance is relevant to a well-engineered programming language. The programming
language is something the professional programmer will live with - even live in. It should feel comfortable
and
safe, like a well-designed home or office; in this way it can contribute to the quality of the activities that
take
place within it. Would you work better in an oriental garden or a sweatshop? 

A programming language should be a joy to use. This will encourage its use and decrease the programmer's
fatigue
and frustration. The programming language should not be a hindrance, but should serve more as a collaborator,
encouraging programmers to do their jobs better. As some automobiles are ``driving machines'' and work as a
natural extension of the driver, so a programming language should be a ``programming machine'' by encouraging
the programmer to acquire the smooth competence and seemingly effortless skill of a virtuoso. The programming
language should invite the programmer to design elegant, efficient and economical programs. 

Through its aesthetic dimension a programming language symbolizes many values. For example, in the variety of
its features it may symbolize profligate excess, sparing economy or asceticism; the kind of its features may
represent intellectual sophistication, down-to-earth practicality or ignorant crudeness. Thus a programming
language can promote a set of values. By embodying certain values, it encourages us to think about them; by
neglecting or negating other values, it allows them to recede into the background and out of our attention.
Out of
sight, out of mind. 


Acquiring a Sense of Elegance

Aesthetics is notoriously difficult to teach, so you may wonder how you are supposed to acquire that refined
sense
of elegance necessary to good design. Billington observes that this sense is acquired through extensive
experience
in design, which, especially in Europe, is encouraged by a competitive process for choosing bridge designers.
Because of it, structural engineers design many more bridges than they build, and they learn from each
competition they loose by comparing their own designs with those of the winner and other losers. The public
also
critiques the competing designs, and in this way becomes more educated; their sense of elegance develops along
with that of the designers. 

So also, to improve as a programming language designer you should design many languages - design obsessively -
and criticize, revise and discard your designs. You should also evaluate and criticize other people's designs
and try
to improve them. In this way you will acquire the body of experience you will need when the ``real thing''
comes
along. 


References

   1.Billington, David P., The Tower and the Bridge: The New Art of Structural Engineering, Princeton:
     Princeton University Press, 1983. Chapters 1 and 6 are the most relevant. 

   2.MacLennan, Bruce J., Principles of Programming Languages: Design, Evaluation, and Implementation,
     second edition, New York: Holt, Rinehart & Winston (now Oxford University Press), 1987.


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Hijacker High (8/30) 
Dalal Mughrabi was a Palestinian woman who participated in a 1978 bus
hijacking in which 36 Israelis and an American nature photographer, Gail
Ruban, were killed. Mughrabi has a Palestinian high school named after
her, and it's apparently starting to show signs of wear. Fortunately,
the United States Agency for International Development has stepped in
with money to help renovate it.

http://reason.com/brickbats/bb-april.shtml

Links to:

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=\ForeignBureaus\archi
ve\200208\FOR20020807e.html

Praeterea censeo Palestininem esse delendam.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0958.f564af86e1a1c10e2f7428899c8543e7.eml000066400000000000000000000074371444326627400311070ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Oct  6 22:56:30 2002
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she read the links. what must it be like, she wondered, to devote ones life
to pointing out  neighbors' mistakes, mishaps, inconsistencies and
frailties?

gloating is definitely underrated in the good book - eh, john?

bring it on,
gg

-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of John
Hall
Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 11:56 PM
To: FoRK
Subject: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.




Hijacker High (8/30)
Dalal Mughrabi was a Palestinian woman who participated in a 1978 bus
hijacking in which 36 Israelis and an American nature photographer, Gail
Ruban, were killed. Mughrabi has a Palestinian high school named after
her, and it's apparently starting to show signs of wear. Fortunately,
the United States Agency for International Development has stepped in
with money to help renovate it.

http://reason.com/brickbats/bb-april.shtml

Links to:

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=\ForeignBureaus\archi
ve\200208\FOR20020807e.html

Praeterea censeo Palestininem esse delendam.






golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0959.2ff04e46681e4aa8f3be0f186d6a408e.eml000066400000000000000000000120551444326627400312770ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Oct  6 22:56:54 2002
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Subject: Re: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
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I propose they rename it "Charlie Heston High" and maybe the students  
will learn to take AR-15s with extended military-spec scopes and .223  
high-velocity ammo and start plinking innocent civilians at random in  
the suburbs of Washington.  That's far more effectual than blowing  
oneself up in a bus.

In America these days, it seems that violence ascribed to any political  
doctrine foreign to Bushism is vile and repugnant.  But random violence  
is entertainment and intrigue.

A couple of ex-FBI "consultants" speaking on the shootings in DC were  
quoted as saying the shooters, presumed to be a pair, were getting a  
"heroin-like high" from each successful kill and that they "for  
whatever reason decided to level the playing field, thumbing their nose  
at law enforcement and society."

See?  Just a couple of kids having fun with Daddy's semi-automatic  
hunting rifle.  Harmless!

-Ian.	

On Saturday, October 5, 2002, at 11:01 PM, John Hall wrote:

>
> It wasn't gloating, it was one for the horror file.
>
> And of course for the Palestinians it wasn't a mistake, which is a key
> part of the horror.
>
> I'm not against American taxpayers remodeling a school honoring a  
> killer
> if we do it with a daisy cutter.
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Geege Schuman [mailto:geege@barrera.org]
>> Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 9:35 PM
>> To: johnhall@evergo.net; FoRK
>> Subject: RE: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
>>
>> she read the links. what must it be like, she wondered, to devote ones
>> life
>> to pointing out  neighbors' mistakes, mishaps, inconsistencies and
>> frailties?
>>
>> gloating is definitely underrated in the good book - eh, john?
>>
>> bring it on,
>> gg
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of
> John
>> Hall
>> Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 11:56 PM
>> To: FoRK
>> Subject: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hijacker High (8/30)
>> Dalal Mughrabi was a Palestinian woman who participated in a 1978 bus
>> hijacking in which 36 Israelis and an American nature photographer,
> Gail
>> Ruban, were killed. Mughrabi has a Palestinian high school named after
>> her, and it's apparently starting to show signs of wear. Fortunately,
>> the United States Agency for International Development has stepped in
>> with money to help renovate it.
>>
>> http://reason.com/brickbats/bb-april.shtml
>>
>> Links to:
>>
>>
> http://www.cnsnews.com/ 
> ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=\ForeignBureaus\archi
>> ve\200208\FOR20020807e.html
>>
>> Praeterea censeo Palestininem esse delendam.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0960.ef7ed4755c4f2630aea5bf4074829bbb.eml000066400000000000000000000100711444326627400313430ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Oct  6 22:56:32 2002
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From: "John Hall" 
To: "'Geege Schuman'" , "'FoRK'" 
Subject: RE: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
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It wasn't gloating, it was one for the horror file.

And of course for the Palestinians it wasn't a mistake, which is a key
part of the horror.

I'm not against American taxpayers remodeling a school honoring a killer
if we do it with a daisy cutter.



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geege Schuman [mailto:geege@barrera.org]
> Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 9:35 PM
> To: johnhall@evergo.net; FoRK
> Subject: RE: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
> 
> she read the links. what must it be like, she wondered, to devote ones
> life
> to pointing out  neighbors' mistakes, mishaps, inconsistencies and
> frailties?
> 
> gloating is definitely underrated in the good book - eh, john?
> 
> bring it on,
> gg
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of
John
> Hall
> Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 11:56 PM
> To: FoRK
> Subject: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hijacker High (8/30)
> Dalal Mughrabi was a Palestinian woman who participated in a 1978 bus
> hijacking in which 36 Israelis and an American nature photographer,
Gail
> Ruban, were killed. Mughrabi has a Palestinian high school named after
> her, and it's apparently starting to show signs of wear. Fortunately,
> the United States Agency for International Development has stepped in
> with money to help renovate it.
> 
> http://reason.com/brickbats/bb-april.shtml
> 
> Links to:
> 
>
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=\ForeignBureaus\archi
> ve\200208\FOR20020807e.html
> 
> Praeterea censeo Palestininem esse delendam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0961.06496acb4b3a9db5434d7c68ff5376e0.eml000066400000000000000000000051361444326627400312200ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Oct  6 22:57:04 2002
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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Hall" 
> 
> I'm not against American taxpayers remodeling a school honoring a killer
> if we do it with a daisy cutter.
With or without occupants?


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0962.2fb2ffd2e80f2dc290149d36a47cef24.eml000066400000000000000000000054661444326627400313550ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Oct  6 22:56:55 2002
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John Hall wrote:

>It wasn't gloating, it was one for the horror file.
>
>And of course for the Palestinians it wasn't a mistake, which is a key
>part of the horror.
>
>I'm not against American taxpayers remodeling a school honoring a killer
>if we do it with a daisy cutter.
>
>
>  
>
I'm sure the plan is that it will be renamed for the settler who kills 
the last Palestinian in a few years.

Owen



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0963.5c8f4d192ae6da76be5fcf3d63a7124e.eml000066400000000000000000000070561444326627400314420ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Oct  6 22:57:27 2002
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Subject: RE: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
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see my first line: I READ THE LINKS.  brickbats.  idiot.



-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of Owen
Byrne
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 9:21 AM
To: johnhall@evergo.net
Cc: 'Geege Schuman'; 'FoRK'
Subject: Re: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.


John Hall wrote:

>It wasn't gloating, it was one for the horror file.
>
>And of course for the Palestinians it wasn't a mistake, which is a key
>part of the horror.
>
>I'm not against American taxpayers remodeling a school honoring a killer
>if we do it with a daisy cutter.
>
>
>  
>
I'm sure the plan is that it will be renamed for the settler who kills 
the last Palestinian in a few years.

Owen







golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0964.d2bb65180b5827292fc3e54a44a02fdd.eml000066400000000000000000000063061444326627400312000ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Oct  6 22:57:05 2002
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When a settler goes postal and kills some Palestinians they are treated
as a criminal, not celebrated in word and song.

But you knew that.

When a Palestinian sets out, to great rejoicing, to attempt to target
children with a homicide-bomb, they are careful to dip the shrapnel in
rat poison.  It helps prevent blood clotting in the victims, you see.

I'm sure all those Jewish homicide-bombers do the same.  Oh wait, there
aren't any.

If the Palestinians are driven completely out, either by expulsion or
death, they will have nobody to blame but themselves.  That won't stop
them or you from pretending otherwise.


> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
Owen
> Byrne


> I'm sure the plan is that it will be renamed for the settler who kills
> the last Palestinian in a few years.
> 
> Owen
> 



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0965.ba396065e5cc872d89cb197e4773f372.eml000066400000000000000000000073441444326627400311050ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Oct  6 22:57:39 2002
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Subject: RE: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.
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when brickbats or fox exposes the folly of government they do so to
accomplish a specific end; dumping truckload after truckload of bad acts
proves their point: stupidity and greed typify government, therefore any
government is too much government.



-----Original Message-----
From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com]On Behalf Of John
Hall
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 5:03 PM
Cc: 'FoRK'
Subject: RE: Our friends the Palestinians, Our servants in government.


Yes, you read the links.

Sorry, but exposing folly is not only humorous but also instructive.  It
is only by exposing folly to ridicule that you stop it in the first
place.

'Brickbats' leans heavily on both, though the item I highlighted was a
'horror' item not a 'gee that is stupid' item.  For an example of the
latter, see the city that wanted a woman to pay a ticket for parking in
an UNmarked no-parking space.

> From: Geege Schuman [mailto:geege@barrera.org]
>
> see my first line: I READ THE LINKS.  brickbats.  idiot.






golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0966.20a99be33fcc43b63c8b082d9348ee02.eml000066400000000000000000000056471444326627400312210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Sun Oct  6 22:57:28 2002
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Yes, you read the links.

Sorry, but exposing folly is not only humorous but also instructive.  It
is only by exposing folly to ridicule that you stop it in the first
place.

'Brickbats' leans heavily on both, though the item I highlighted was a
'horror' item not a 'gee that is stupid' item.  For an example of the
latter, see the city that wanted a woman to pay a ticket for parking in
an UNmarked no-parking space.

> From: Geege Schuman [mailto:geege@barrera.org]
> 
> see my first line: I READ THE LINKS.  brickbats.  idiot.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0967.4e58795717c8348425fd06d48c7acc9e.eml000066400000000000000000000105011444326627400311020ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Oct  7 20:37:01 2002
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From: Elias Sinderson 
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Subject: Re: The absurdities of life.
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I call PacBell/SBC every two or three months about a recurring problem 
we have at my house:

We get a phone bill every month for someone who no longer lives at our 
house for a phone line which has been disconnected for over three years 
and the account balance is (drum roll please) $0.00! Sometimes the 
people I talk to cannot locate the account in their system and tell me 
that the phone number doesn't exist. Some people are able to locate the 
account but say that it has been disconnected and there is no way we 
could get a bill sent to us for that account. Some people can locate the 
account and verify that the line has been disconnected for three years 
and that the amount owed is $0.00 and then they say somthing along the 
lines of "Huh?" or "I'm not sure what's going on... Hold please." And 
eventually I have similar conversations with their managers and the 
account representatives and billing people and their managers and their 
managers' managers ad naseum.

The outcome of every phone call is that they'll "look into it" and fix 
the problem and I might receive one or two more bills depending on when 
it's resolved. So I wait a month or two and send the bills back marked 
"Not at this address, please fsck off." and then eventually call them 
back and go through the whole process again. Lately I just explain to 
the phone jockeys that I know it's not their fault and I'm not mad at 
them and it's just not their day because I'm about to give them hell. 
Then I give them the opportunity to have me yell at their boss which 
they seem all too happy to do.

At least it gives me a positive way to vent my aggressions and it's a 
lot cheaper than seeing a therapist.

Perplexed,
Elias


bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:

>
>So I get a check from Pac Bell today (SBC as they're called now).
>Turns out, they went to the trouble of printing out, signing, sealing
>and stamping a check just to refund me for a whole $0.33.
>
>[...]
>



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0968.0be9064c59a1e2ff57a88a6254fc5c27.eml000066400000000000000000000070271444326627400312270ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Oct  7 20:37:02 2002
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From: CDale 
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It was a kick when an apt manager kept mailing me a notice that I owed 
them .08.  I just waited to see how many times they'd mail me a notice.  7 
times by the time I left and paid them the .08.  Funny thing was, I lived 
right behind the office where it was mailed from.  (:
Cindy

On Mon, 7 Oct 2002 bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:

> 
> 
> So I get a check from Pac Bell today (SBC as they're called now).
> Turns out, they went to the trouble of printing out, signing, sealing
> and stamping a check just to refund me for a whole $0.33.
> 
> They easily spent more than this just getting the materials together.
> Why the hell do companies bother to do this crap?  I mean, isn't there
> a bottom line in terms of cost effectiveness?  I don't think I missed
> the .33, but I sure as hell would have appreciated lower rates in lieu
> of being returned pennies.
> 
> I'm truly stuck on this though.  I don't know whether to frame the
> check, burn it, or cash it in.  Maybe I should find a way to return to
> sender, so they have to spend -more- money on giving me my .33 dues.
> 
> 
> Does .33 even buy anything anymore?  Funny bit of it, is I couldn't
> even make a phone call these days.
> 
> *boggled*
> BB.
> 
> 

-- 
"I don't take no stocks in mathematics, anyway" --Huckleberry Finn


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0969.c872e57098d18f1588a9e0b1307cee42.eml000066400000000000000000000052151444326627400310720ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Oct  7 20:37:04 2002
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On Mon, 7 Oct 2002 bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:

--]I'm truly stuck on this though.  I don't know whether to frame the
--]check, burn it, or cash it in.

I framed my 2$ check from mp3.com. Someone bought the Cd I have up there
some years back and it is my real and actual proof in saying I am a paid
musician. Of course I never cashed the check so techinaly I never did get
paid...but thats another matter alltogther.




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0970.f10c0a8d0caea18d4fe49bef77099b7e.eml000066400000000000000000000057141444326627400315150ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Oct  7 20:37:06 2002
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I knew it'd be a day for insanity.

so anyway, news.com decided to write up two wonderful articles on the
DMCA and decided to link to decss.exe, the very verboten code that
ended up getting 2600 (but none of the other news services that
originally linked) spanked.

Slashdot, of course, links to them.

So now, I link to slashdot.

http://slashdot.org/articles/02/10/07/1331217.shtml?tid=123

I find this all incredibly funny really.  Congress _and_ the courts
relaly do need to be considering how laws such as the DMCA are
applied.  For the most part, these rules are coming down to whose
friend you happen to be, how nefarious the defendant party is, and how
asleep the judge is behind the case (asleep/self-interested/bought).
Its giving me a real cynical view on being a lawyer, thats for sure.



-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                          mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0971.0442a60e9294a07934b67f751cb1177e.eml000066400000000000000000000075121444326627400307110ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Oct  7 21:56:36 2002
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Dave Long wrote:

>>
>>    
>>
>>>"The United States is the only country in the world to tax its citizens
>>>on a worldwide basis, ...
>>>      
>>>
>
>I am told this is also true (at least)
>for Australia.  I suppose I shouldn't
>rely upon editorial fact-checking.
>
>::::::
>
>  
>
>>                              If they manage to emulate the process
>>that occurred in Northern Ireland, then maybe in 20 years or so
>>they'll be yelling at each other across the floor of some legislative
>>assembly instead.  Label me an optimist.
>>    
>>
>
>Since "let's you and him fight" worked
>so remarkably poorly in Ireland, there
>must've been plenty of places it worked
>well for the British to have tried it
>again in Israel.  What were they?
>
>-Dave
>  
>
I'm not sure what you mean by "let's you and him fight", but it is 
important to remember that England was in control of Ireland
for 300 years, and that it was only thanks to the distraction of WW I 
that the south managed to gain its independence. If you mean
splitting countries upon arbitrary lines and assigning different groups 
to opposite sides of the line, it also seems to have not worked in
India/Pakistan.
I suppose Canada, which is supposed to be a "loose confederation" of 2 
founding nations (French and English) can be cited as a success. The 
jury is still out, but so far only a few brief rebellions and 
referendums and such, still together after 130+ years.

Owen



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0972.58234e68337a7a333ca40560900f82d9.eml000066400000000000000000000051511444326627400306260ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Oct  7 21:56:36 2002
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From: Tom 
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I know I heard of this a few years back but Wired and Slashyrot are both
running stories on 10mbs data transfer via human touch.

Oh I can see it now, The first bicostal file exchange system that will see
the newsest Offspring tunes distribute by handshake, copulation and
moshpiting.

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992891
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,5239758%255E13762,00.html
http://slashdot.org/articles/02/10/07/0238234.shtml?tid=100



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0973.89427fb666841ff5794e403f199002af.eml000066400000000000000000000062301444326627400307350ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Oct  7 21:56:38 2002
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From: bitbitch@magnesium.net
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Hello Tom,

Monday, October 7, 2002, 4:45:02 PM, you wrote:


T> I know I heard of this a few years back but Wired and Slashyrot are both
T> running stories on 10mbs data transfer via human touch.

T> Oh I can see it now, The first bicostal file exchange system that will see
T> the newsest Offspring tunes distribute by handshake, copulation and
T> moshpiting.

T> http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992891
T> http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,5239758%255E13762,00.html
T> http://slashdot.org/articles/02/10/07/0238234.shtml?tid=100



Wow.  I'm just wondering how the earliest adopter of all new
technologies, the porn market will spin this one...

 "New... Now you can transfer porn while you screw!'  Talk about
 exchanging energy.

-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                            mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0974.12d5f785a949c7cd9c0c81a34a370842.eml000066400000000000000000000075171444326627400310660ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Oct  7 22:40:45 2002
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Subject: RE: The absurdities of life.
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They are legally required to do that.  I got a similar check because an
insurance company didn't pay a claim quickly enough.  It might have been
$.02.

Although they spent lots more than $.33 to mail you the check, the
alternative seems to be to keep the money.  Do you really want companies
to have a financial incentive to over-bill you 'just a bit' so they
could keep it?  For a company with millions of customers, $.33/customer
starts adding up.






> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
> bitbitch@magnesium.net

> So I get a check from Pac Bell today (SBC as they're called now).
> Turns out, they went to the trouble of printing out, signing, sealing
> and stamping a check just to refund me for a whole $0.33.
> 
> They easily spent more than this just getting the materials together.
> Why the hell do companies bother to do this crap?  I mean, isn't there
> a bottom line in terms of cost effectiveness?  I don't think I missed
> the .33, but I sure as hell would have appreciated lower rates in lieu
> of being returned pennies.
> 
> I'm truly stuck on this though.  I don't know whether to frame the
> check, burn it, or cash it in.  Maybe I should find a way to return to
> sender, so they have to spend -more- money on giving me my .33 dues.
> 
> 
> Does .33 even buy anything anymore?  Funny bit of it, is I couldn't
> even make a phone call these days.
> 
> *boggled*
> BB.
> 
> --
> Best regards,
>  bitbitch                          mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0975.e49c2453f33ce748a8d9128708ce0a81.eml000066400000000000000000000106771444326627400310750ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Oct  7 22:40:48 2002
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JH> They are legally required to do that.  I got a similar check because an
JH> insurance company didn't pay a claim quickly enough.  It might have been
JH> $.02.

JH> Although they spent lots more than $.33 to mail you the check, the
JH> alternative seems to be to keep the money.  Do you really want companies
JH> to have a financial incentive to over-bill you 'just a bit' so they
JH> could keep it?  For a company with millions of customers, $.33/customer
JH> starts adding up.


Christ, you sound worse than me.

What I -said- in my post, John, was that instead of having to dole out
stupid refunds, I'd rather they save the costs incurred, knock off one
of those bullshit surcharges that they inevitably charge for promoting
services like these, and move on.  SOmething tells me, it'd balance
out.  Problem is, they're silly, they don't want to do this, and
rather than the legislation coming up with an affective means of
controlling the situation (overcharging) they impose silly
requirements like this.






>> From: fork-admin@xent.com [mailto:fork-admin@xent.com] On Behalf Of
>> bitbitch@magnesium.net

>> So I get a check from Pac Bell today (SBC as they're called now).
>> Turns out, they went to the trouble of printing out, signing, sealing
>> and stamping a check just to refund me for a whole $0.33.
>> 
>> They easily spent more than this just getting the materials together.
>> Why the hell do companies bother to do this crap?  I mean, isn't there
>> a bottom line in terms of cost effectiveness?  I don't think I missed
>> the .33, but I sure as hell would have appreciated lower rates in lieu
>> of being returned pennies.
>> 
>> I'm truly stuck on this though.  I don't know whether to frame the
>> check, burn it, or cash it in.  Maybe I should find a way to return to
>> sender, so they have to spend -more- money on giving me my .33 dues.
>> 
>> 
>> Does .33 even buy anything anymore?  Funny bit of it, is I couldn't
>> even make a phone call these days.
>> 
>> *boggled*
>> BB.
>> 
>> --
>> Best regards,
>>  bitbitch                          mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net





-- 
Best regards,
 bitbitch                            mailto:bitbitch@magnesium.net


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0976.3da1d276c9603bdf777d80e0e74ec148.eml000066400000000000000000000117471444326627400312310ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Oct  8 00:32:02 2002
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Subject: Re: erratum [Re: no matter ...] & errors
From: James Rogers 
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On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 12:48, Owen Byrne wrote:
> I suppose Canada, which is supposed to be a "loose confederation" of 2 
> founding nations (French and English) can be cited as a success. The 
> jury is still out, but so far only a few brief rebellions and 
> referendums and such, still together after 130+ years.


Alberta, and to a lesser extent some of the other Western provinces, is
definitely not happy with the current arrangement.  Some of this has to
do with the strange way the Canadian government is structured.  When I
was last up in Alberta (a month ago), the newspapers were reporting
something like 70% of Albertans favor separating from Canada, and over
several distinct issues.

The problem is basically that while Alberta is an economic powerhouse
that is propping up the weaker economies of the Eastern provinces, their
interests are openly and unapologetically ignored by the government in
Ottawa.  While Alberta sends something like twice the tax dollars to
Ottawa per capita of the average Canadian, they only have token
representation in the federal government.  While I'm not clear on
exactly how the government works up there, representation is not
entirely based on population, and it works out that some eastern
provinces with populations smaller than the city of Calgary alone have
substantially more representatives in the legislature than the entire
province of Alberta.  

The long and the short of it is that the eastern provinces use Alberta
as a personal ATM machine for their social programs while not even so
much as throwing Alberta a bone, and are able to do so because even the
sparsely populated eastern provinces can out-vote Alberta despite having
fewer people.  Or something like that.  The Canadian government is less
restricted than the US government, so they can do strange things, like
having restrictive regulations that only apply to certain provinces,
Alberta being on the receiving end of many such obscenities.  It is
essentially a much worse version of what is happening in the
inter-mountain West of the US.  Unlike the US case though, the rest of
Canada would really be hurting if they weren't receiving all those tax
dollars from Alberta.  OTOH, Alberta would probably thrive.

I have friends in Alberta, and visit occasionally, but I'm not totally
clear on everything that goes on in that country, due to my partial
unfamiliarity with how the government works up there, so I'm a little
fuzzy on some of the details.  What I do know is that on average the
Albertans are quite unhappy with their current position in Canada and
the sentiment has been getting worse over the years.

Cheers,

-James Rogers
 jamesr@best.com



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0977.d0e3f4e7fd0a8c2bdd26888af1ca3a0b.eml000066400000000000000000000076761444326627400315760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Tue Oct  8 10:56:42 2002
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Subject: why is decentralization worth worrying about?
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Why am I so passionate about decentralization? Because I believe some of 
today�s most profound problems with networked applications are caused by 
centralization.

Generically, a centralized political or economic system permits only one 
answer to a question, while decentralization permits many separate 
agents to hold different opinions of the same matter. In the specific 
context of software, centralized variables can only contain one valid 
value at a time. That limits us to only representing information A) 
according to the beliefs of a single agency, and B) that changes more 
slowly than it takes to propagate. Nevertheless, centralization is the 
basis for today�s most popular architectural style for developing 
network applications: client-server interaction using request-response 
communication protocols.

I believe these are profound limitations, which we are already 
encountering in practice. Spam, for example, is in the eye of the 
beholder, yet our email protocols and tools do not acknowledge the 
separate interests of senders and receivers. Slamming, for another, 
unfairly advantages the bidder with the lowest-latency connection to a 
centralized auction server. Sharing ad-hoc wireless networks is yet a 
third example of decentralized resource allocation. Furthermore, as 
abstract as centralization-induced failures might seem today, these 
limits will _not_ improve as the cost of computing, storage, and 
communication bandwidth continue to plummet. Instead, the speed of light 
and human independence constitute _fundamental_ limits to centralized 
information representation, and hence centralized software architecture.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0997.df0c214721243248b9421e3c0ba9e453.eml000066400000000000000000000056621444326627400307620ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  2 13:14:58 2002
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bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:
 > Well Beberg, unless you're really into Anime and actually hold true
 > that dead people can send email, I think Geege's subject is just
 > dandy.

Funny you should mention that, as I just came back from refilling
the green coolant in my Navi.

 > (bonus FoRK points if Adam knows what anime i'm refering to)

I guess I don't get any points, do I? No, didn't think so.

- Joe

P.S. We've just started watching Boogiepop Phantom...

-- 
The Combatant State is your father and your mother, your only
protector, the totality of your interests. No discipline can
be stern enough for the man who denies that by word or deed.



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/0998.9b9e34483f3588514be24dd97961764b.eml000066400000000000000000000060121444326627400307510ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Mon Sep  2 13:12:57 2002
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On Sun, 1 Sep 2002 bitbitch@magnesium.net wrote:

> Well Beberg, unless you're really into Anime and actually hold true
> that dead people can send email, I think Geege's subject is just dandy.
> Especially since she removed herself from the hive that is aol (and
> placed herself unto another, but hey :-))

Bandwidth is bandwidth. AOL is still the only mom-friendly place to get it.

> *ducks and runs*

What, like i'm not skilled with a bow? You better run really fast :-P

> (bonus FoRK points if Adam knows what anime i'm refering to)

Well lets see, about 99% of all anime? In anime dead people can talk, email,
hang out, and generally lead normal lives. Come to think of it they tend to
be the primary characters ;)

But I suspect you mean Serial Experiments Lain, in which the initial "i'm
not dead yet" is via email.

- Adam L. "Duncan" Beberg
  http://www.mithral.com/~beberg/
  beberg@mithral.com




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1001.6d9880fcc649355d3c7faebf01c61d42.eml000066400000000000000000000100051444326627400312500ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Aug 22 15:46:36 2002
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To: Ed Greenberg ,
	spamassassin-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
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At 8:43 PM -0700 8/21/02, Ed Greenberg wrote:
>At 11:19 PM 8/20/2002 -0700, dan@dankohn.com wrote:
>
>>The nature of our patent is about putting a warrant mark in RFC 2822
>>X-headers (or in the body) to allow senders to warrant their mail as
>>*not-spam*, and then to use copyright and trademark infringement to
>>enable Habeas to enforce that warranty.

Why is it that I envision Verisign doing something like this.  Yeah, 
like I want Verisign to sign all my spam, er, mail for me.  Pay them 
enough and they'd probably sign spam too. ;)

J
-- 

--
Justin Shore, ES-SS ES-SSR                Pittsburg State University
Network & Systems Manager                 http://www.pittstate.edu/ois/


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1002.e8313d6b4c83d4bc3ae6c1e1ed210b29.eml000066400000000000000000000103001444326627400312770ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Aug 22 16:17:10 2002
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On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Matthew Cline wrote:

> On Tuesday 20 August 2002 07:57 pm, Harold Hallikainen wrote:
> > http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,54645,00.html
> 
> Summary: a company will offer short snippets of original, copyrighted
> and trademarked text that can be inserted into email message headers,
> and email filters can recognize this as a "not-spam" indicator.  Any
> spammers who use the text will be sued for copyright and trademark
> infringement.

They may be in for a patent fight before any of this goes forward:

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,476558,00.asp

"Banking on the fact that few enterprises sending commercial mail want to 
be associated with spam, IronPort Systems Inc., in San Bruno, Calif., has 
developed the Bonded Sender program in an effort to give legitimate bulk 
e-mailers some credibility."



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	tests=FOR_FREE,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03,USER_AGENT,
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Suppose I created a rule that was in this form:

body RULE_NAME /text to delete/d

Would the "/d" delete this text from the body and mask it from the rest of the 
rules? If so - I'm thinking about applying it to Yahoo and SN and Juno ads so 
that FPs are reduced.



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To: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
From: Justin Shore 
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Highest-scoring false positive
Cc: SpamAssassin List 
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X-Spam-Level: 

At 3:59 PM +0100 8/22/02, Justin Mason wrote:
>Justin Shore said:
>
>>  I just ran across a false positive that scored 8.6.  The message was
>>  a solicited ad from Apple.com on educator deals.  I can send a copy
>>  if anyone wants it.
>
>Yes, please do send it on, and I'll add it to the non-spam corpus.

To any particular address?  I checked the lists page but didn't see 
an address to see a FP to.

>To date, the scores evolved by SpamAssassin are very biased towards
>non-HTML, non-newsletter-ish mail.  This release should be different, as
>I've been spending the last month signing up a "nonspamtrap" to every
>legit newsletter I can find ;)

That's understandable.  HTML mail is the worst thing since female 
shoe sales at the mall. ;-)  Signup for the cruisercustomizing.com 
newsletter.  Great place to find and review motorcycle parts. :)

>This should mean that tests which match common-enough newsletter practices
>will no longer get such high scores once we re-run the GA.

Sound pretty slick.  If I come across any more legit newsletters, 
I'll send them your way.

Thanks for the info
  Justin
-- 

--
Justin Shore, ES-SS ES-SSR                Pittsburg State University
Network & Systems Manager                 http://www.pittstate.edu/ois/


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From: Russ Gilman-Hunt 
To: SpamAssassin List 
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I'm fairly confused here, with Procmail. 
I know this isn't a procmail list per-se; feel free to answer my questions in 
private email to r_gilmanhunt@hotp.com.  

I've looked for web-stuff to answer this question but I can't find anything 
specific on this scenario.

Here's the situation. 
I have a global /etc/procmailrc file. It works, and when I insert stuff into 
it for logging (LOGFILE=/root/procmail.log, VERBOSE=yeah. LOGABSTRACT=all) it 
shows up where I expect it to (the log in /root/procmail.log)  At the end of 
this file, I use 
 :0fw
 | spamc
to call spamassassin.

Also in it is a carboncopy recipe (yes, I know, it's one of the evils we do 
for our corporate masters)  (at the top) (to their credit, I am instructed 
that they are not interested in the actual contents, but are concerned about 
future lawsuits and their culpability, so they want a record made. Discussion 
on this point is immaterial)
:0
  * ? test -d $ARCHIVEDIR/$DATEDIR || mkdir -p --mode=750 $ARCHIVEDIR/$DATEDIR
  { }
:0 c
 $SAVEAT

I have several users where I forward certain spams to /dev/null  . . .their 
procmailrc file (/home/$user/.procmailrc) looks like this:
:0
  * ^From: .*spermfun.com
  /dev/null

Now I've got a person who needs a copy of her inbound emails sent to another 
email address (outside the company), so I've got this recipe in her 
/home/$user/.procmailrc file:
:0 c
  !user@domain.tld

It almost looks like procmail's not running a user's copy recipe after a 
global copy recipe, except that I can replace that user's one with 
:0 
 * ^Subject: .*test
  procmail.holder
and get the same result.

The result, to put it succinctly, is "nothing". No forwards go out, no files 
are made, if I try to log information, no logs are set up. I've modified the 
user/group and permissions to match known-working recipes (the spermfun 
example above) and still nothing.  However, I can redirect those other 
messages.  In other words- just this user's procmailrc file is not working- 
other users have no problems.

Any suggestions would be helpful :) 

-Russ


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Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Highest-scoring false positive
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482)
Cc: SpamAssassin List 
To: "Karsten M. Self" 
From: "Craig R.Hughes" 
In-Reply-To: <20020822000239.GJ30870@miles.freerun.com>
Message-Id: <47DAEAB9-B5F5-11D6-A91E-00039396ECF2@deersoft.com>
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Interesting.  It's possible, of course, that the shitty economy 
is hurting the spammers as much as anyone else.  But if you've 
been aggressively reporting, then it could just be that.  Could 
be your upstream ISP is being more aggressive too...

C

On Wednesday, August 21, 2002, at 05:02  PM, Karsten M. Self wrote:

> ...what these plots *don't* show is the drop from ~55 
> mails/daily to ~30
> daily that I've seen at work, since 1st week of May, when spam receipts
> peaked.  Not sure if it's aggressive reporting that's getting us off
> lists, or if other people are seeing similar.



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To: Theo Van Dinter 
Cc: Justin Mason ,
	SpamAssassin-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAdev] 2.40 RELEASE PROCESS: mass-check status, folks?
In-Reply-To: Message from Theo Van Dinter  of
    "Thu, 22 Aug 2002 13:20:30 EDT."
    <20020822172030.GC16421@kluge.net>
From: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
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Theo Van Dinter said:

> >         nonspam-theo.log
> 
> Hmmm.  I did re-run mass-check and resubmit...  I sort the log by score,
> so the timestamp is at the end:

ah, OK.  didn't see that.

--j.


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To: Theo Van Dinter ,
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From: Justin Shore 
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] 2800 sightings this month
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	tests=FOR_FREE,IN_REP_TO,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,
	      REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05
	version=2.40-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

At 1:16 PM -0400 8/22/02, Theo Van Dinter wrote:
>On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 07:05:33PM +0200, Malte S. Stretz wrote:
>>  Ummm... has somebody noticed that spamassassin-sightings is the fourth most
>>  active list for this month on [1]? There is more sighting than talk and
>>  devel together ;-)
>
>hmmm.  do people know that they should only send false negatives there?
>either there's a lot of stuff SA is missing, or some people are just
>sending all their spam there.

I've sent in some spam that either didn't score or scored practically 
nothing, like below 5.  I figure that most people run at 5 so if it 
scores less than that, a rule needs to be honed to catch it.

Justin
-- 

--
Justin Shore, ES-SS ES-SSR                Pittsburg State University
Network & Systems Manager                 http://www.pittstate.edu/ois/


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1009.7c9b90533c1766f51b93cb4c940d7317.eml000066400000000000000000000047021444326627400307670ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: tony@svanstrom.com  Fri Aug 23 11:05:51 2002
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From: "Tony L. Svanstrom" 
X-X-Sender: tony@moon.campus.luth.se
To: Justin Mason 
Cc: patrick@vonderhagen.de,
	
Subject: Re: [SAdev] Integrating SA with Mail::CheckUser ?
In-Reply-To: <32932.194.125.172.55.1030050447.squirrel@example.com>
Message-Id: <20020822232458.L68187-100000@moon.campus.luth.se>
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	      SPAM_PHRASE_00_01
	version=2.40-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

On Thu, 22 Aug 2002 the voices made Justin Mason write:

> > The perl-module Mail::CheckUser implements a smtp-callback and I hope
> > it might be integrated rather easily.
> > Has this extension been discussed before (and perhaps rejected)?
> > Or perhaps someone is already planning to implement it?
> > Or would you be interested to integrate a smtp-callback-patch in
> > SpamAssassin if contributed by my department? We would not be to happy
> > about such a patch which we had to manage and integrate with SA in the
> > future, but I believe a one-time contribution would be no problem.

 How'd this deal with you running SA on an account where all the mail from some
domain on another server ends up?


	/Tony
-- 
# Per scientiam ad libertatem! // Through knowledge towards freedom! #
# Genom kunskap mot frihet! =*= (c) 1999-2002 tony@svanstrom.com =*= #

     perl -e'print$_{$_} for sort%_=`lynx -dump svanstrom.com/t`'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1019.beedf67e23635b02918f624bae1cba33.eml000066400000000000000000000071671444326627400313370ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  9 10:55:02 2002
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> I'm not sure what you mean by "let's you and him fight", but it is 
> important to remember that England was in control of Ireland
> for 300 years ...

Exactly -- "let's you and him fight" is a
way of dealing with troublesome populations
by moving them next to one another, so they
give each other, and not the Man, grief*.

So by my understanding (and, you all will
understand, with tongue firmly in cheek):

Ireland:  Irish?  Uppity barbarians overly
   fond of "risings".  Scots?  More uppity
   barbarians overly fond of "risings".
   Why not plonk down a bunch of the latter
   next to the former and kill two birds
   with one stone?

Israel:  Ex-ottomans?  Uppity barbarians
   (didn't they help kick out the Ottomans?)
   Zionists?  Uppity sorts who aren't happy
   with perfectly good land in Uganda.  Why
   not plonk down a bunch of the latter next
   to the former and kill two birds with one
   stone?

but not:

India: in which the muslims and hindus were
    originally intermixed to some degree,
    but Partioned due to their own conflict,
    not due to English resettlement policy.

Canada: in which the french and english were
    already established, and it was just the
    balance of power on the continent that
    determined events in the colonies.  The
    Acadians got resettled, but they don't
    seem to have been that good for picking
    fights with their neighbors, so no one
    had them plonked down next door.

-Dave

* this works best with a populace who,
given "one man, one vote", immediately
deduce "one less man, one less vote" --
eh, Magnan?


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1020.7fdf27321484091bd72c08886ab53262.eml000066400000000000000000000100561444326627400306730ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  9 22:44:53 2002
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From: Gregory Alan Bolcer 
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	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_20_30,T_NONSENSE_FROM_30_40,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_40_50,T_NONSENSE_FROM_50_60,
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X-Spam-Level: 

This is my Netscape 7.0 Review.

o They finally got the email search speed back up to
   where it was in 4.7.x
o Setting up user mail accounts doesn't have that really
   odd, sometimes it lets me sometimes it doesn't problem that
   previous versions had.
o I still have to manually update all my address books by
   hand but at least it lets me import them as Netscape 4.x
   address books (there's not 6.x import as they just assume
   it works--which it doesn't)
o The mail filters are still broken and have the same problem that
   I've tried to report since 4.0.2 where you can't store a mail
   filter of the type: Age in days, is greater than, 21 (or some number)
   Gawd I'd really wish they'd fix that freakin' bug, it's the single
   biggest annoyance that I have with Netscape as it's one of the
   most effective anti-spam tools that I have.
o Webex doesn't support Netscape 7.0 and the plugin doesn't
   work which causes problems when you want to use Webex to
   work on something with someone remotely.

I've given up trying to report bugs and any changes to the
source I send always get lost.

Greg


-- 
Gregory Alan Bolcer, CTO  | work: +1.949.833.2800
gbolcer at endeavors.com  | http://endeavors.com
Endeavors Technology, Inc.| cell: +1.714.928.5476










golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1021.3c2dc9fee94649133426006b8ae4ac88.eml000066400000000000000000000221161444326627400311200ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Wed Oct  9 22:44:55 2002
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Subject: RE: The Disappearing Alliance
From: James Rogers 
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	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_00_10,T_NONSENSE_FROM_10_20,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_20_30,T_NONSENSE_FROM_30_40,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_40_50,T_NONSENSE_FROM_50_60,
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X-Spam-Level: 

On Wed, 2002-10-09 at 06:48, Frank Bergmann wrote:
> 
> A more reasonable explication of the EU - US differences (according 
> to some American journalist cited in a German magazine, can someone
> help me?) is that the American public perceives the rest of the world 
> basically as a thread, against which you have to defend yourself using
> power.


This is not a correct assessment.  The American public couldn't care
less.  However, the US intelligence community correctly perceives a
threat, and it isn't the third-world.  Many European and other developed
nations aggressively engage in covert operations against American
interests.  Its been going on for years and isn't even news.  Things
have stepped up in recent years and the US DoD is none too pleased.  For
better or worse, the US is relatively good at that game too.  As with
most backwater wars, they are proxies for the interests of the big
players.

Find a current list of the top intelligence threats to the US.  You'll
find that half the countries on that list are European.  Most people are
unaware of how aggressive these things have gotten in recent years.


> On the other hand the Europeans are used to the peace of their cozy 
> post-war system where external security is not an issue. All security
> threads can be resolved by giving money to the threatening people 
> and to integrate them into the wealthy sphere (Balkan, Palestinians,
> ...)


Bullshit.  The European governments ruthlessly suppress real opposition,
obviously some more than others.  US SpecOps are often brought in to do
dirty work inside Europe for European governments (usually with
government "advisors" along for the mission).  I've always wondered what
the deal was such that we got involved at all.  The point being that
we've acted as assassins for European governments inside their borders
against their own citizens under the auspices of those governments, and
in recent years, not ancient history.  I know SpecOp guys who left the
military specifically because of the circumstances of some of these
missions while they were posted for that duty. I'm certainly glad I was
never assigned missions in that theater, because there is a lot of
covert nastiness going on in nominally friendly European democracies.

Regardless, giving money to people that threaten you has never created
meaningful peace in the history of civilization.  We call it extortion
under any other guise.

 
> A lot of the current EU - US issues can be explained by this difference 
> of perception, such as the current American unilateralism (nobody wants 
> to help us!), the American arrogance towards Europe (they don't want to 
> do anything, so why should we ask them?) and the growing rejection of the 
> American policy in Europe (they want to abolish the law!).


Europe is looking increasingly like a basket case.  Whatever problems
the US is having these days, Europe looks worse and is going downhill
faster.  Why the US would want to emulate European behavior or the
European way of doing things is beyond me.

The US asking for major policy advice from Europe is like asking a quack
for medical advice.  I really don't see what is wrong with "unilateral"
anyway.  Why should anyone join a stampede that is heading for a cliff?
I hope the incessant knee-jerk conformist screeching that Americans see
coming from Europe doesn't actually represent the views of Europeans. 

For various reasons I'm not exactly a cheerleader for the US government,
but the premises of the argument against them here are lame.


> My personal point is that few Americans (percentage of overall population)
> have ever left their country, while even German construction workers
> regularly spend their holidays in Spain. So I'm not surprised that
> paranoia is growing.


I'm betting you are underestimating the actual percentage.  The vast
majority of people I know have lived, worked, and traveled outside the
country at one time or another.  And I doubt Europeans have traveled
anywhere near as much in the Western hemisphere as Americans have. 
Despite the best efforts of France, Europe is *still* not the center of
the universe.  I'll throw you a bone though: most Americans do consider
Europe to be drifting into irrelevancy and therefore ignore it.  But
from the perspective of an American, how could you NOT look at it this
way?  The impact of Europe on America has diminished greatly over the
years.

I love the smell of Euro-chauvinism in the morning.

First, you assume that the North American continent is ethnically and
culturally homogenous.  Anybody that has actually traveled throughout
North America knows this isn't true; there are more than five major and
very distinct cultures and societies in the US alone, never mind the
hundreds of diverse regional sub-populations, some of which are truly
foreign.  Apparently Europeans confuse speaking the same language with
having the same culture.  That would be like saying Mexico is culturally
identical to Spain because they nominally speak the same language.  A
Wyoming rancher has almost nothing in common culturally or socially with
your average person living in San Francisco, despite speaking the same
language and nominally living in the same country.  If I want to visit a
wildly different culture for the holidays, I'll go to Oakland, New
Orleans, or similar -- they are far more different from where I live
than some countries I've traveled to.  And a lot of these places are
farther from where I live than Spain is from Germany.

Second, the State I live in is the size of Germany.  When I travel to a
neighboring State (which I do regularly), how is this not equivalent? 
In fact, I probably travel much farther for the holidays than your
German construction workers.  If you look at the EU as a single country,
only then does your analogy become comparable.  What kind of ridiculous
superiority do Europeans get from having (relatively) tiny countries?

In truth, I find Europe to be about as culturally homogeneous as the
US.  There are a lot of cultural similarities across the EU with
relatively minor local deviations that vary with distance in ways very
similar to the US.  The only real difference is that Europeans have
dozens of different languages, which is hardly something I would call an
advantage.  Although there are a couple parts of the US where I can't
understand a word they are saying either. 


-James Rogers
 jamesr@best.com




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1022.73ab70b91862d709897cfe3dd5bb22a0.eml000066400000000000000000001213451444326627400311770ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: fork-admin@xent.com  Thu Oct 10 12:34:47 2002
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X-Spam-Level: 

I got to see Powell talk in March 2001 at the beginning of his
reign at the FCC.  He said they were going to take a real
hands off approach, so it's funny that they would blame
the regulators for causing the collapse.  One thing he did
get right, is that he wasn't worried that the US was behind
Europe in the wireless licensing spectrum.  This is something
very prescient in that most of those licensors have had to
eat their lunch over the huge licensing costs they paid for
very little benefit.  His legacy was/is supposed to be
rethinking the FCC's role to stay out of the way in this
period of business innovation in the wireless space as he
didn't want the government forcing business models onto
the private sector.

His full transcript is here [1].  Interestingly enough I
got to see his speech in person as he was part of the whole
CTIA'2001 Las Vegas keynote series of speakers.  Clay and
I hoped a flight out of Ontario to Las Vegas to do demo support
for Craig Barrett [2].  His message was that there's no difference
between wired and wireless Internet--it's all the same thing.
Instead of scalable networks, we should be thinking about scalable
content (& using Magi he showed sending a blue man tv commercial
from a desktop to a laptop to an ipaq to a color smartphone with
the content scaling back for each target platform).

The best part of the whole trip wasn't hobnobbing at all,
but really the fact that the Venetian had ran out of rooms.
They decided to put us up in one of their $10,000/night high
roller rooms.  They put Clay in one and me in another.
The Venetian is known for having the largest hotel rooms
anywhere, but these ones were bigger than my whole house. 8-)

Greg


[1] http://www.fcc.gov/Speeches/Powell/2001/spmkp101.html
[2] http://www.intel.com/pressroom/archive/speeches/cb20010320.htm

Rohit Khare wrote:
> I can't believe I actually read a laugh-out-loud funny profile of the 
> *FCC Commissioner* fer crissakes! So the following article comes 
> recommended, a fine explanation of Michael Powell's extraordinary 
> equivocation.
> 
> On the other hand, I can also agree with Werbach's Werblog entry... Rohit
> 
>> A Trip to F.C.C. World
>>
>> Nicholas Lemann has a piece in the New Yorker this week about FCC 
>> Chairman Michael Powell.  It's one of the first articles I've seen 
>> that captures some of Powell's real personality, and the way he's 
>> viewed in Washington.  Unfortunately, Lemann ends by endorsing 
>> conventional political wisdom.  After describing how Powell isn't 
>> really a fire-breathing ideological conservative, he concludes that, 
>> in essence, Powell favors the inumbent local Bell telephone companies, 
>> while a Democratic FCC would favor new entrants.  I know that's not 
>> how Powell sees the world, and though I disagree with him on many 
>> issues, I think he's right to resist the old dichotomy.
>>
>> The telecom collapse should be a humbling experience for anyone who 
>> went through it.  The disaster wasn't the regulators' fault, as some 
>> conservatives argue.  But something clearly went horribly wrong, and 
>> policy-makers should learn from that experience.  Contrary to Lemann's 
>> speculation, the upstart carriers won't be successful in a Gore 
>> administration, because it's too late.  Virtually all of them are 
>> dead, and Wall Street has turned off the capital tap for the 
>> foreseeable future.  Some may survive, but as small players rather 
>> than world-dominators. 
>>
>> The battle between CLECs and RBOCs that Lemann so astutely parodies is 
>> old news.  The next important battle in telecom will be between those 
>> who want to stay within the traditional boxes, and those who use 
>> different models entirely.  That's why open broadband networks and 
>> open spectrum are so important.  Whatever the regulatory environment, 
>> there is going to be consolidation in telecom.  Those left out in that 
>> consolidation will face increasing pressure to create new pipes into 
>> the home, or slowly die. The victors in the consolidation game will 
>> cut back on innovation and raise prices, which will create further 
>> pressure for alternatives. 
>>
>> Lemann is right that policy-making looks much drier and more ambiguous 
>> on the ground than through the lens of history.  But he's wrong in 
>> thinking that telecom's future will be something like its past.
>>
>> Friday, October 04, 2002
>> 11:17:11 AM  comments {0} 
> 
> 
> ==============================================================
> http://www.newyorker.com/printable/?fact/021007fa_fact
> 
> THE CHAIRMAN   
> by NICHOLAS LEMANN
> He's the other Powell, and no one is sure what he's up to.
> New Yorker, October 8, 2002
> 
> Last year, my middle son, in eighth grade and encountering his first 
> fairly serious American-history course, indignantly reported that the 
> whole subject was incomprehensible. I was shocked. What about Gettysburg 
> and the Declaration of Independence and the Selma-to-Montgomery march? 
> Just look at my textbook, he said, and when I did I saw his point. His 
> class had got up to the eighteen-forties. What I expected was a big 
> beefing up of the roles of Sacagawea and Crispus Attucks, and, in-deed, 
> there was some of that. But the main difference between my son's text 
> and that of my own childhood was that somebody had made the disastrous 
> decision to devote most of it to what had actually happened in American 
> history. There were pages and pages on tariffs and bank charters and 
> reciprocal trade agreements. I skipped ahead, past the Civil War, hoping 
> for easier going, only to encounter currency floats and the regulation 
> of freight rates. Only a few decades into the twentieth century did it 
> become possible to see the federal government's main function as 
> responding to dramatic crises and launching crusades for social justice, 
> instead of attempting to referee competing claims from economic interests.
> 
> Even now, if one were to reveal what really goes on behind the pretty 
> speeches and the sanctimonious hearings in Washington, what you'd find 
> is thousands of lawyers and lobbyists madly vying for advantage, not so 
> much over the public as over each other: agribusiness versus real 
> estate, banks versus insurance companies, and so on. The arena in which 
> this competition mainly takes place is regulatory agencies and 
> commissions and the congressional committees that supervise them. It's 
> an insider's game, less because the players are secretive than because 
> the public and the press�encouraged by the players, who speak in jargon�
> can't get themselves interested.
> 
> One corner of Washington might be called F.C.C. World, for the Federal 
> Communications Commission. F.C.C. World has perhaps five thousand 
> denizens. They work at the commission itself, at the House and Senate 
> commerce committees, and at the Washington offices of the companies that 
> the commission regulates. They read Communications Daily (subscription 
> price: $3,695 a year), and every year around Christmastime they 
> grumblingly attend the Chairman's Dinner, at a Washington hotel, where 
> the high point of the evening is a scripted, supposedly self-deprecating 
> comedy routine by the commission's chairman.
> 
> Of all the federal agencies and commissions, the F.C.C. is the one that 
> Americans ought to be most interested in; after all, it is involved with 
> a business sector that accounts for about fifteen per cent of the 
> American economy, as well as important aspects of daily life�telephone 
> and television and radio and newspapers and the Internet. And right now 
> F.C.C. World is in, if not a crisis, at least a very soapy lather, 
> because a good portion of what the angry public thinks of as the 
> "corporate scandals" concerns the economic collapse of companies 
> regulated by the F.C.C. Qwest, WorldCom, Adelphia, and Global Crossing, 
> among others, are (or were) part of F.C.C. World. AOL Time Warner is 
> part of F.C.C. World. Jack Grubman, the former Salomon Smith Barney 
> analyst who seems to have succeeded Kenneth Lay, of Enron, as the 
> embodiment of the corporate scandals, is part of F.C.C. World. In the 
> past two years, companies belonging to F.C.C. World have lost trillions 
> of dollars in stock-market valuation, and have collectively served as a 
> dead weight pulling down the entire stock market.
> 
> This year, an alarmed and acerbic anonymous memorandum about the state 
> of the F.C.C. has been circulating widely within F.C.C. World. It evokes 
> F.C.C. World's feverish mood ("The F.C.C. is fiddling while Rome burns") 
> and suggests why nobody besides residents of F.C.C. World has thought of 
> the commission in connection with the corporate scandals. The sentence I 
> just quoted is followed by this explanation: "The ILECs appear likely to 
> enter all l.d. markets within twelve months, while losing virtually no 
> residential customers to attackers since 1996, and suffering about 10% 
> market share loss in business lines to CLECs." It's a lot easier to 
> think about evil C.E.O.s than to decipher that.
> 
> 
> Even in good times, F.C.C. World pays obsessive attention to the 
> commission's chairman. In bad times, the attention becomes especially 
> intense; and when the chairman is a celebrity F.C.C. World devotes 
> itself to full-time chairman-watching. The current chairman, Michael 
> Powell, is a celebrity, at least by government-official standards, 
> because he is the only son of Colin Powell, the Secretary of State. 
> Unlike his father, he has a kind of mesmerizing ambiguity, which 
> generates enormous, and at times apoplectically toned, speculation about 
> who he really is and what he's really up to. Powell is young to be the 
> head of a federal agency�he is thirty-nine�and genially charming. 
> Everybody likes him. Before becoming chairman, he was for three years 
> one of the F.C.C.'s five commissioners; not only is he fluent in the 
> F.C.C.'s incomprehensible patois, he has a Clintonesque love of the 
> arcane details of communications policy. He's always saying that he's an 
> "avid moderate." And yet he has a rage-inciting quality. One of his 
> predecessors as chairman, Reed Hundt, quoted in Forbes, compared Powell 
> to Herbert Hoover. Mark Cooper, of the Consumer Federation of America, 
> calls him "radical and extreme." Just as often as he's accused of being 
> a right-wing ideologue, Powell gets accused of being paralytically 
> cautious. "It ain't about singing 'Kum-Ba-Yah' around the campfire," 
> another former chairman, William Kennard, says. "You have to have an 
> answer." One day last spring, Powell, testifying before a Senate 
> subcommittee, delivered an anodyne opening statement, and the 
> subcommittee's chairman, Ernest Hollings, of South Carolina, berated 
> him. "You don't care about these regulations," Hollings said. "You don't 
> care about the law or what Congress sets down. . . . That's the 
> fundamental. That's the misgiving I have of your administration over 
> there. It just is amazing to me. You just pell-mell down the road and 
> seem to not care at all. I think you'd be a wonderful executive 
> vice-president of a chamber of commerce, but not a chairman of a 
> regulatory commission at the government level. Are you happy in your job?"
> 
> "Extremely," Powell said, with an amiable smile.
> 
> 
> One cannot understand Powell's maddening effect, at least on Democrats 
> and liberal activists, without understanding not just the stated purpose 
> of the commission he chairs but also its real purpose. The F.C.C. was 
> created by Congress in 1934, but it existed in prototype well before the 
> New Deal, because it performs a function that is one of the classic easy 
> cases for government intervention in the private economy: making sure 
> that broadcasters stick to their assigned spots on the airwaves. Its 
> other original function was preventing American Telephone & Telegraph, 
> the national monopoly phone company, from treating its customers 
> unfairly. Over the decades, as F.C.C. World grew up into a comfortable, 
> well-established place, the F.C.C. segued into the role of industrial 
> supervision�its real purpose. It was supposed to manage the competition 
> among communications companies so that it didn't become too bloody, by 
> artfully deciding who would be allowed to enter what line of business. 
> In addition to looking out for the public's interest, the commission 
> more specifically protected the interests of members of Congress, many 
> of whom regard the media companies in their districts as the single most 
> terrifying category of interest group�you can cross the local bank 
> president and live to tell the tale, but not the local broadcaster. 
> According to an oft-told F.C.C. World anecdote, President Clinton once 
> blocked an attempt to allow television stations to buy daily newspapers 
> in the same city because, he said, if the so-and-so who owned the 
> anti-Clinton Little Rock Democrat-Gazette had owned the leading TV 
> station in Little Rock, too, Clinton would never have become President.
> 
> 
> F.C.C. World may have been con tentious, but it was settled, too, 
> because all the reasonably powerful players had created secure economic 
> niches for themselves. Then, in the nineteen-eighties, the successful 
> breakup of A.T. & T.�by far the biggest and most important company the 
> commission regulated�deposited a thick additional sediment of 
> self-confidence onto the consciousness of F.C.C. World. A generation 
> ago, for most Americans, there was one local phone company, one 
> long-distance company, and one company that manufactured telephones, 
> which customers were not permitted to own�and they were all the same 
> company. It was illegal to plug any device into a phone line. By the 
> mid-nineteen-nineties, there were a dozen economically viable local 
> phone companies, a handful of national long-distance companies competing 
> to offer customers the lowest price and best service, and stores 
> everywhere selling telephone equipment from many manufacturers�and 
> millions of Americans had a fax machine and a modem operating over the 
> telephone lines. A.T. & T. had argued for years that it was a "natural 
> monopoly," requiring protection from economic competition and total 
> control over its lines. So much for that argument. Over the same period, 
> the F.C.C. had assisted in the birth of cable television and cell phones 
> and the Internet. It was the dream of federal-agency success come true: 
> consumers vastly better served, and the industry much bigger and more 
> prosperous, too.
> 
> The next big step was supposed to be the Telecommunications Act of 1996, 
> one of those massive, endlessly lobbied-over pieces of legislation which 
> most people outside F.C.C. World probably felt it was safe to ignore. 
> Although the Telecom Act sailed under the rhetorical banner of 
> modernization and deregulation, its essence was a grand interest-group 
> bargain, in which the local phone companies, known to headline writers 
> as "baby Bells" and to F.C.C. World as "arbocks" (the pronounced version 
> of RBOCs, or regional Bell operating companies), would be permitted to 
> offer long-distance service in exchange for letting the long-distance 
> companies and smaller new phone companies use their lines to compete for 
> customers. Consumers would win, because for the first time they would 
> get the benefits of competition in local service while getting even more 
> competition than they already had in long distance. But the politics and 
> economics of the Telecom Act (which was shepherded through Congress by 
> Vice-President Gore) were just as important. Democrats saw the act as 
> helping to reposition them as the technology party�the party that 
> brought the Internet into every home, created hundreds of thousands of 
> jobs in new companies, and, not least, set off an investment boom whose 
> beneficiaries might become the party's new contributor base. Clinton's 
> slogans about the "information superhighway" and "building a bridge to 
> the twenty-first century," which, like all Clinton slogans, artfully 
> sent different messages to different constituencies, were the rhetorical 
> correlates of the Telecom Act, and Gore's cruise to the Presidency was 
> supposed to be powered substantially by the act's success.
> 
> The F.C.C. had a crucial role in all this. The arbocks are rich, 
> aggressive, politically powerful, and generally Republican (though like 
> all important interest groups they work with both parties); they 
> immediately filed lawsuits, which wound up tying the hands of their new 
> competitors in the local phone market for more than three years. Through 
> rule-making, enforcement, and litigation, the F.C.C., then headed by 
> Reed Hundt, who was Gore's classmate at St. Albans, was supposed to keep 
> the arbocks in their cages, so that not only long-distance companies 
> like A.T. & T. and MCI WorldCom but also a whole category of new 
> companies, "see-lecks" (the pronounced version of CLECs, or competitive 
> local exchange carriers), could emerge. This entailed the regulatory 
> equivalent of hand-to-hand combat: the see-leck is supposed to have 
> access to the arbock's switching equipment, the arbock won't give the 
> seeleck a key to the room where it's kept, so the see-leck asks the 
> F.C.C. to rule that the arbock has to give it the key.
> 
> Partly because Hundt assured the see-lecks and other new companies that 
> he would protect them, and partly because of the generally booming 
> condition of the economy then, investment capital flooded into the 
> see-lecks�companies with names like Winstar, Covad, and Teligent�and 
> into other telecommunications companies. Even not obviously related 
> technology companies like Cisco Systems benefitted from the telecom 
> boom: demand for their products was supposed to come from the see-lecks 
> and other new players. There would be no conflict between the interests 
> of the new telecom companies and those of consumers; as one of Hundt's 
> former lieutenants told me, "Reed used to joke that my job was to make 
> sure that all prices went down and all stocks went up."
> 
> 
> The years following the passage of the Telecom Act were the peak of the 
> boom. Wall Street had its blood up, and that meant not just more 
> startups but also more mergers of existing communications companies: 
> Time Warner and AOL decided to throw in together, and A.T. & T. and 
> Comcast, and so on. (Surely, WorldCom and the other telecom bad guys 
> believed that their self-dealing, stock-overselling, and creative 
> accounting would go unnoticed because the market was so undiscriminating.)
> 
> By the time the outcome of the 2000 Presidential election had been 
> determined, the telecom crash was well under way. Nonetheless, the 
> chairmanship of the F.C.C. remained one of the best jobs, in terms of 
> influence and visibility, available to a career government regulator. 
> Three Republicans emerged as candidates: Powell, who was a commissioner; 
> Harold Furchtgott-Roth, the farthest-to-the-right commissioner; and 
> Patrick Wood, the head of the Texas Public Utility Commission and, as 
> such, a George W. Bush guy. In Texas, however, Wood had crossed the most 
> powerful person in the arbock camp, Edward Whitacre, the C.E.O. of 
> S.B.C. Communications, which is headquartered in San Antonio. This meant 
> that the arbocks didn't want Wood as head of the F.C.C., because he 
> might be too pro-see-leck. (Wood is now the head of the Federal Energy 
> Regulatory Commission.) Michael Powell had to signal the arbocks that he 
> wasn't as threatening as Wood, while also signalling the conservative 
> movement that he was only negligibly farther to the left than 
> Furchtgott-Roth.
> 
> Powell did this deftly. For example, in December of 2000 he appeared 
> before a conservative group called the Progress & Freedom Foundation and 
> gave a very Michael Powell speech�whimsical, intellectual, and 
> free-associative (Biblical history, Joseph Schumpeter, Moore's Law)�that 
> began by making fun of the idea that the F.C.C. should try to keep new 
> telecom companies alive. "In the wake of the 1996 Act, the F.C.C. is 
> often cast as the Grinch who stole Christmas," Powell said. "Like the 
> Whos, down in Who-ville, who feast on Who-pudding and rare Who-roast 
> beast, the communications industry was preparing to feast on the 
> deregulatory fruits it believed would inevitably sprout from the Act's 
> fertile soil. But this feast the F.C.C. Grinch did not like in the 
> least, so it is thought." Thus Powell was indicating that if he became 
> chairman he didn't expect to administer first aid to the see-lecks as 
> part of the job. He was appointed to the chairmanship on the first day 
> of the Bush Administration.
> 
> Twenty months into the Administration, nearly all the see-lecks are dead 
> or dying; nearly all long-distance companies, not just WorldCom, are in 
> serious trouble; cable companies have lost half their value; satellite 
> companies are staggering. The crash has had an automatically 
> concentrating effect, because as new companies die the existing 
> companies' market share increases, and, if the existing companies are in 
> good shape financially, they have the opportunity to pick up damaged 
> companies at bargain prices. During the Bush Administration, as the 
> financial carnage in communications has worsened, the communications 
> industry has moved in the direction of more concentration. If the Bells 
> wind up protecting their regional monopolies in local phone service, and 
> if they also merge, the country will be on its way to having a national 
> duopoly in local service: Verizon, in the East, and S.B.C., in the West. 
> And these companies could dominate long distance as well, because of the 
> poor health of the long-distance companies.
> 
> The cable business also seems close to having two dominant national 
> companies, AOL Time Warner and Comcast. Unlike the phone companies, they 
> don't have to share their wiring with other companies and so can more 
> fully control what material they allow to enter people's homes. As part 
> of the complicated bargaining with interest groups that led to the 1996 
> Telecom Act, the limits on concentration in the radio industry were 
> significantly loosened, and in the past six years the number of 
> radio-station owners in the United States has been cut by twenty-five 
> per cent; today, a large portion of local and national radio news 
> programming is supplied by a single company, Westwood One, a subsidiary 
> of Viacom.
> 
> In this situation, many Democrats and liberals think, the F.C.C. should 
> be hyperactive�the superhero of government regulation, springing to the 
> rescue of both consumers and the communications industry. It should try 
> to breathe life into the see-lecks and other new companies. It should 
> disallow mergers, maintain ownership limits, and otherwise restrain the 
> forces of concentration. It should use the government's money and muscle 
> to get new technology�especially fast Internet connections�into the 
> homes of people who can't afford it at current market prices. (An 
> analogy that a lot of people in F.C.C. World make is between telecom and 
> the Middle East: the Clinton people blame the bloodshed on the Bush 
> people, because they disengaged when they came into office, and the Bush 
> people blame it on the Clinton people, because they raised too many 
> expectations and stirred too many passions.)
> 
> But Michael Powell's F.C.C. has not been hyperactive. Powell has been 
> conducting internal policy reviews and reforming the management of the 
> F.C.C. and waiting for the federal courts and the Congress to send him 
> signals. (In mid-September, Powell finally initiated a formal review of 
> the F.C.C.'s limits on media concentration.) This doesn't mean he has 
> been inactive; rather, he has been active in a way that further 
> infuriates his critics�in a manner that smoothly blends the genial and 
> the provocative, he muses about whether the fundamental premises of 
> F.C.C. World really make sense, while giving the impression that he's 
> having the time of his life as chairman. At his first press conference, 
> when he was asked what he was going to do about the "digital 
> divide"�that is, economic inequality in access to the Internet�he said, 
> "You know, I think there is a Mercedes divide. I'd like to have one and 
> I can't afford one." At the National Cable & Telecommunications 
> Association convention, in Chicago, Powell, following a troupe of 
> tumblers to the stage, interrupted his walk to the podium to perform a 
> somersault.
> 
> 
> Not long ago, I went to see Powell in his office at the F.C.C. Until 
> 1998, when the commission moved to a new building in Southwest 
> Washington, near the city's open-air fish market, F.C.C. World was at 
> the western edge of downtown, where everybody would encounter everybody 
> else at a few familiar restaurants and bars. Today, the F.C.C. building 
> looks like the office of a mortgage company in a suburban office park. 
> Even the chairman's suite, though large, is beige, carpeted, and 
> fluorescent. Powell is a bulky man who wears gold-rimmed glasses and 
> walks with a pronounced limp, the result of injuries he suffered in a 
> jeep accident in Germany, in 1987, when he was an Army officer. Because 
> of the accident, he left the Army and went to law school, where he 
> became entranced with conservative ideas about regulation, particularly 
> the idea that the government, rather than trying to correct the flaws of 
> the market before the fact�"prophylactically," as he likes to say�should 
> wait till the flaws manifest themselves and then use antitrust 
> litigation to fix them. He worked briefly at a corporate law firm, and 
> then became a prot�g� of Joel Klein, the head of the antitrust division 
> of the Clinton Justice Department and the man who led the government's 
> legal case against Microsoft. (He was recently appointed chancellor of 
> the New York public-school system.) It testifies to Powell's political 
> skill that he is probably the only high official in the Bush 
> Administration who not only served in the Clinton Administration but 
> also maintains close ties to Bush's nemesis Senator John McCain, of 
> Arizona. One of the things about Powell that annoy people is his 
> enduring love of law school�"It's sort of like a law-school study 
> session over there," one Democratic former commissioner said. As if to 
> confirm the charge, Powell, when I arrived, introduced me to four law 
> students, summer interns at the commission, whom he'd invited to sit in.
> 
> I began by asking Powell whether he agreed with the founding assumptions 
> of the F.C.C. For example, could private companies have apportioned the 
> airwaves among themselves without the government being involved?
> 
> "I think we'll never know," Powell said. "I don't think it's an 
> automatically bad idea, the way some people will argue. Land is probably 
> the best analogue. We don't seize all the land in the United States and 
> say, 'The government will issue licenses to use land.' If my neighbor 
> puts a fence one foot onto my property line, there's a whole body of law 
> about what I can do about that, including whether I can tear it down. If 
> a wireless company was interfering with another wireless company, it's a 
> similar proposition. There are scholars who argue�indeed, the famous 
> Ronald Coase treatise that won the Nobel Prize was about this�that 
> spectrum policy is lunacy. The market could work this out, in the kinds 
> of ways that we're accustomed to."
> 
> Talking to Powell was fun. Unlike most high government officials, he 
> doesn't seem to be invested in appearing dignified or commanding. He 
> slumps in his chair and fiddles with his tie and riffs. He speaks in 
> ironic air quotes. He's like your libertarian friend in college who 
> enjoyed staying up all night asking impertinent rhetorical questions 
> about aspects of life that everybody else takes for granted but that he 
> sees as sentimental or illogical. After a while, I asked him whether he 
> thought his predecessors' excitement about the 1996 Telecommunications 
> Act had been excessive.
> 
> "I would start with a caveat," Powell said. "Look, I can't fault those 
> judgments in and of themselves, given the time and what people thought. 
> They were not the only ones who were hysterical about the opportunities. 
> But, frankly, I've always been a little bit critical. First of all, 
> anybody who works with the act knows that it doesn't come anywhere close 
> to matching the hyperbole that was associated with it, by the President 
> on down, about the kinds of things it's going to open up. I mean, I 
> don't know what provisions are the information-superhighway provisions, 
> or what provisions are so digitally oriented, or some of the things that 
> were a big part of the theatre of its introduction. When one starts 
> reading the details, one searches, often in vain, for these provisions. 
> But, nonetheless, there was a rising dot-com excitement, and an Internet 
> excitement, and people thought this was historic legislation, and it 
> certainly was.
> 
> "But. We were sucking helium out of balloons, with the kinds of 
> expectations that were being bandied around, and this is before the 
> economy or the market even gets in trouble. It was a dramatically 
> exaggerated expectation�by the leadership of the commission, by 
> politicians, by the market itself, by companies themselves. It was a 
> gold rush, and led to some very detrimental business decisions, ones 
> that government encouraged by its policies, frankly. Everybody wanted to 
> see numbers go up on the board."
> 
> Powell began imitating an imagined true believer in the Telecom Act. " 
> 'I want to see ten competitors. Twenty competitors! I want to see 
> thirty-per-cent market share. Fifty-per-cent market share! I want the 
> Bells to bleed! Then we'll know we've succeeded.' " Now Powell returned 
> to being Powell. "I think that expectation was astonishingly 
> unrealistic, in the short term. They wanted to see it while they're 
> there. We were starting to get drunk on the juice we were drinking. And 
> the market was getting drunk on the juice we were drinking. There's no 
> question, we went too soon too fast. Too many companies took on too much 
> debt too fast before the market really had a product, or a business model."
> 
> How could the Telecom Act have been handled better? "We could have 
> chosen policies that were less hellbent on a single objective, and were 
> slightly more balanced and put more economic discipline in the system," 
> Powell said. "Money chased what seemed like government-promised 
> opportunity. The problem with that is there's a morning after, and we're 
> in it. And the problem is there is no short fix for this problem. This 
> debt is going to take years to bring down to a realistic level. In some 
> ways, for short-term gain, we paid a price in long-term stability."
> 
> Powell went on to say that it might have turned out differently if there 
> had been a more "reasonable" level of investment. "No, we wouldn't have 
> every home in America with competitive choice yet�but we don't anyway. I 
> don't think it's the remonopolization of telephone service. I don't buy 
> that. The Bells will prosper, but did anybody believe they wouldn't? The 
> part of the story that didn't materialize was that people thought so 
> would MCI WorldCom and Sprint."
> 
> Other local phone companies, he added, hadn't materialized as viable 
> businesses, either, and they never might. "Everybody's always saying, 
> 'The regulators did this and this and this.' But, candidly, the story's 
> quite the opposite. I think the regulators bent over backward for six 
> years to give them a chance. Conditions don't get that good except once 
> every thirty years, and it didn't happen. So, whatever the reason, we're 
> looking at a WorldCom that's teetering. We're looking at a long-distance 
> business that has had a rapid decline in its revenue base. A.T. & T. is 
> breaking itself up. Sprint has struggled."
> 
> Could the F.C.C. have done anything to make the long-distance companies 
> stronger? "At the F.C.C.? I think I'll just be blunt. My political 
> answer? Yes, there's all kinds of things we can do at the margin to try 
> to help. But I can't find thirty billion dollars for WorldCom somewhere. 
> I can't mitigate the impacts of an accounting scandal and an S.E.C. 
> investigation. Were I king, it would be wonderful, but I don't have 
> those kinds of levers. I don't know whether anybody does. At some point, 
> companies are expected to run themselves in a way that keeps them from 
> dying." Powell couldn't have made it much clearer that he doesn't think 
> it's his responsibility to do anything about the telecom crash. He has 
> demonstrated his sure political touch by making accommodationist 
> gestures�in August, for example, five months after disbanding the 
> F.C.C.'s Accounting Safeguards Division, Powell announced that he was 
> appointing a committee to study accounting standards in the 
> communications industry. But that shows that Powell is better at riding 
> out the storm than, say, Harvey Pitt, his counterpart at the Securities 
> and Exchange Commission, and does not mean that he plans to try to shore 
> up the telecom industry.
> 
> I asked Powell if it would bother him if, for most people, only one 
> company provided cable television and only one provided local phone 
> service. "Yes," he said. "It concerns us that there's one of each of 
> those things, but let's not diminish the importance of there being one 
> of each of those things. That still is a nice suite of communications 
> capabilities, even if they aren't direct analogues of each other." 
> Anyway, Powell said, before long the phone companies will be able to 
> provide video service over their lines, and the cable companies will 
> provide data service over their lines, so there will be more choice. 
> "So, yeah, we have this anxiety: we have one of everything. The question 
> is, Does it stay that way?"
> 
> The concentration of ownership and the concentrated control of 
> information did not appear to trouble Powell, either. He said that 
> people confuse bigness, which brings many benefits, with concentration, 
> which distorts markets. "If this were just economics, it's easy. If you 
> were to say to me, 'Mike, just worry about economic concentration,' we 
> know how to do that�the econometrics of antitrust. I can tell you when a 
> market's too concentrated and prices are going to rise. The problem is 
> other dimensions, like political, ideological, sometimes emotional. Take 
> the question of, if everybody's controlling what you see, the assumption 
> there is that somehow there'll be this viewpoint, a monolithic 
> viewpoint, pushed on you by your media and you won't get diversity. I 
> think that's a possibility. I don't think it's nearly the possibility 
> that's ascribed to it sometimes."
> 
> Powell explained, "Sometimes when we see very pointed political or 
> parochial programming, it gets attacked as unfair. I see some of the 
> same people who claim they want diversity go crazy when Rush Limbaugh 
> exists. They love diversity, but somehow we should run Howard Stern off 
> the planet. If it has a point of view, then it becomes accused of bias, 
> and then we have policies like"�here his tone went from ironic to 
> sarcastic�"the fairness doctrine, which seems to me like the antithesis 
> of what I thought those people cared about. So when somebody is pointed 
> and opinionated, we do all this stuff in the name of journalistic 
> fairness and integrity or whatever, to make them balance it out."
> 
> 
> F.C.C. World abounds in theories about Michael Powell. One is that he 
> can't make up his mind about how to address the crisis in the industries 
> he regulates�so he talks (and talks and talks) flamboyantly about the 
> market, in order to buy himself time. Another is that he's carrying 
> water for the arbocks and the big cable companies. Another is that he is 
> planning to run for the Senate from Virginia (or to be appointed 
> Attorney General in a second Bush term), and doesn't want to do anything 
> at the F.C.C. that would diminish his chances. Another is that he's 
> waiting to move until there is more consensus on some course of action, 
> so that he doesn't wind up going first and getting caught in the 
> crossfire between the arbocks and the cable companies and the television 
> networks. (In F.C.C. World, this is known as the Powell Doctrine of 
> Telecom, after Colin Powell's idea that the United States should never 
> commit itself militarily without a clear objective, overwhelming force, 
> and an exit strategy.) And another is that he actually believes what he 
> says, and thinks the telecommunications crash is natural, healthy, and 
> irreversible, and more concentration would be just fine.
> 
> "This is why elections matter," Reed Hundt, who isn't happy about what 
> has become of his Telecom Act, told me. It's true that the F.C.C.�much 
> more than, say, the war in Afghanistan�is a case in which a Gore 
> Administration would be acting quite differently from the Bush 
> Administration. Consumers might have noticed the difference by now, but 
> there's no question whether communications companies have noticed. The 
> arbocks are doing better against their internal rivals than they would 
> have done if Gore had won. Next election, they'll help the party that 
> helped them. If the Republicans win, policy will tilt further in the 
> arbocks' favor. If they lose, perhaps the arbocks' rivals�the 
> long-distance companies and the telecommunications upstarts�with their 
> friends now in power, will stage a comeback. America's present is not 
> unrecognizably different from America's past.
> 
> 


-- 
Gregory Alan Bolcer, CTO  | work: +1.949.833.2800
gbolcer at endeavors.com  | http://endeavors.com
Endeavors Technology, Inc.| cell: +1.714.928.5476










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Subject: Fwd: [POLITICOS] Re: "Bowling for Columbine," Opens This Friday
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Begin forwarded message:

> From: Ian Andrew Bell 
> Date: Wed Oct 9, 2002  11:16:09 PM US/Pacific
> To: mike@michaelmoore.com
> Cc: foib@ianbell.com
> Subject: [POLITICOS] Re: "Bowling for Columbine," Opens This Friday
>
> Michael,
>
> Why is it that people who consider voting in an election an 
> inconvenience would go to see a movie to show support for its message? 
>  Don't get me wrong -- I think this is the case.  People will go to 
> see your movie as much to be entertained and informed as they will to 
> express their malice and discontent towards not only the present 
> regime in America, but also the corrupt, empty, shallow pantomime 
> which cast them into power.
>
> In reality, today the voting that takes place via the act of 
> consumption far outweighs the impact caused by people going to a booth 
> and dimpling the appropriate chad, or some other such convoluted act 
> of free democratic expression.
>
> Why?  Because in America, they believe in dollars.  Dollars don't lie. 
>  In practise, they are the last frontier of truth in America, 
> universally accepted as expressions of fear, desire, passion, and 
> need.  Compared to the swing of the almighty buck, and Jeb Bush knows 
> this, a hanging chad has only the nethermost meaning.
>
> Given that fact, I modestly propose an entirely new, though wholly 
> logical, extension to the current democratic system in place in 
> America:
>
> I propose we augment, and effectively replace, the electoral system 
> with a political stock market.  We should accept that Politicians are 
> entrepreneurs just like any other businessperson in America, and 
> embrace this fact in building an economic system which truly reflects 
> their intent.  A politician should issue a constant number of shares 
> dependent upon his tenure in government.  Those shares should be 
> traded on an open exchange, say the G.R.E.E.D. (short, of course, for 
> the "Global Realists' Electoral Exchange -- Democratic").  Politicians 
> we believe in will see their stocks rise higher as faith in their 
> ability to maintain office grows.  As the truth about their embezzling 
> campaign funds for weekend trips to Maui with their interns is 
> revealed, of course, their fortunes will fall.
>
> This represents an opportunity for the market forces -- those same 
> forces which you intend to harness to express your own personal 
> protest -- to voice their opinion on the quality of America's 
> governance during the intervening four years between elections.  
> Elections themselves will in effect become meaningless, as they are 
> now, since their outcome will be influenced by the stock price of each 
> and every congressman, senator, and presidential candidate.
>
> Just think of the coverage that could be given on MSNBC!  "Strom 
> Thurman (STROM: news - quotes) was down 15% today on fears that his 
> latest heart operation will render him unable to attend Senate Armed 
> Services committee meetings until November.."  This would provide 
> rejuvenating content to the econo-political news sector, which has 
> found post-economic-bubble coverage to be both tiresome and 
> deoressing.  The establishment of this new stock exchange would of 
> course create jobs for newly unemployed (and governmentally retrained) 
> IT systems engineers who could, after passing the electoral securities 
> exam, become floor traders.
>
> This would also allow for a convenient and very public method by which 
> candidates could raise capital in the public markets to support their 
> multi-billion-dollar campaigns.  The requirement for the support of 
> legions of spin doctors, permanent campaign managers, and investor 
> relations personnel would also create jobs -- perhaps even a new 
> practice for Ernst & Young, Arthur Anderson, et al.  Insider trading 
> scandals and misleading revenue declarations would of course catch 
> Martha Stewart as an unwitting beneficiary, thus spreading her 
> influence to politics.
>
> Dividends, if there are any on record, at the close of a politician's 
> career could be paid to current shareholders based on the holdings.  
> Pensions funds could provide the institutional investment support 
> necessary to underpin even the biggest dogs among the Beltway set.  
> Union funds, brokerages, and even pump-and-dump houses could benefit 
> from meteoric rises in conservative candidates running in the 
> Southeast, and the Bush Governmet would be allowed to place Social 
> Security bets where they really mattered.   investors who lose their 
> retirement, life savings, and support could rest assured that they 
> were indeed robbed by crooks rather than poor investors.
>
> Although there's no way to protect any of these for Worldcom-like 
> crashes, ambitious, inspired, District Attorneys could file criminal 
> suits against Candidates and Campaign Managers who underperform 
> expectations, thus assuring investors that their logic was not faulty 
> -- instead, they were merely defrauded by crooks and thieves.
>
> On the whole, I believe the system could work.  I could certainly work 
> as well as our beloved securities trading industry and, given the 
> American electoral system's success at effectively expressing the will 
> of the people, it certainly couldn't do any worse...
>
> In the meantime, Mike, I think I'll go see your movie and try to 
> depose the President.
>
> -Ian.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 03:53 PM, Michael Moore's Mailing 
> List wrote:
>
>> October 9, 2002
>>
>> My Film, "Bowling for Columbine," Opens This Friday
>>
>> Dear friends, fans, and fellow evildoers:
>>
>> I am very happy and excited to tell you that this Friday, October 11, 
>> my
>> new
>> film, "Bowling for Columbine," will open in New York and Los Angeles.
>>
>> It is, I promise, the last thing the Bushies want projected on the 
>> movie
>> screens across America this week. The film is, first and foremost, a
>> devastating indictment of the violence that is done in our name for 
>> profit
>> and power -- and no one, in all the advance screenings I have 
>> attended, has
>> left the theatre with anything short of rage. I truly believe this 
>> film has
>> the potential to rock the nation and get people energized to do 
>> something.
>>
>> This is not good news for Junior and Company. Not when they are 
>> trying to
>> drag us into another war. Not when a crazed sniper is exercising his
>> constitutional right to own a high-powered rifle. Not when John 
>> Ashcroft is
>> still prohibiting the FBI from looking through the gun background 
>> check
>> files to see if any of the 19 hijackers or their associates purchased 
>> any
>> weapons prior to 9/11 -- because THAT, we are told, would "violate" 
>> these
>> terrorists' sacred Second Amendment rights!
>>
>> Yes, I believe this movie can create a lot of havoc -- but I will 
>> need ALL
>> of you to help me do this. Are you game?
>>
>> Last February 5th, I wrote to tell you about a book I had written and 
>> how
>> the publisher had decided to dump it because they were afraid to 
>> publish
>> anything critical of Bush after 9/11. I appealed to you to save 
>> "Stupid
>> White Men" from the shredder and to go out and buy it. I promised you 
>> would
>> not regret it, and that the book would not only be a great read but an
>> important organizing tool in gumming up the plans of George W. Bush.
>>
>> Within 24 hours, the book went to #1 on the Amazon best seller list. 
>> By the
>> fifth day, the book was already into its 9th printing. The publisher 
>> was
>> torn between its desire to kill the book or make a wad of money. 
>> Greed won
>> out, and this Sunday the book enters its 31st week on the New York 
>> Times
>> best seller list -- and its 32nd printing. This is all because of 
>> you, my
>> crazy and loyal friends. You made this happen, against all the odds.
>>
>> Now I would like to ask you again to help me with my latest work, 
>> "Bowling
>> for Columbine." It's a movie that many critics have already called my 
>> best
>> film to date. They may be right. It is certainly the most provocative 
>> thing
>> I have ever done. I have spent three years on it and, I have to say, 
>> it
>> cuts
>> deeper, harder and funnier that anything I have given you so far.
>>
>> The movie opens this Friday in New York and Los Angeles, and then in 
>> 8 more
>> cities next week. How it does in these first ten cities will determine
>> whether or not the rest of the country gets to see it. That is the 
>> nutty
>> way
>> our films are released. If it doesn't have a big opening weekend, you 
>> can
>> kiss the film good-bye. Therefore, this weekend, this film must be 
>> seen by
>> millions of Americans. Can you help me make that happen?
>>
>> "Bowling for Columbine" is not a film simply about guns or school
>> shootings.
>> That is only the starting point for my 2-hour journey into the dark 
>> soul of
>> a country that is both victim and master of an enormous amount of 
>> violence,
>> both at home and around the world. With this movie I have broadened my
>> canvas to paint a portrait of our nation at the beginning of the 21st
>> century, a nation that seems hell-bent on killing first and asking
>> questions
>> later. It is a movie about the state sponsored acts of violence and
>> terrorism against our own poor, and how we have created a culture of 
>> fear
>> that is based on the racial dilemma we continue to ignore. And it's a
>> devastating comedy.
>>
>> This film is going to upset some pretty big apple carts. No film has 
>> EVER
>> said the things I am saying in "Bowling for Columbine." I expect to be
>> attacked. I expect certain theatres will not show it for fear of
>> retribution. I expect that this movie will be a bitter pill for many 
>> to
>> swallow.
>>
>> This is why I need your help. Movies live or die based on what 
>> happens at
>> the box office the first weekend of its release. I need you, if you 
>> live in
>> the New York or L.A. area, to go see "Bowling for Columbine" this 
>> Friday
>> and
>> Saturday -- and take as many family members and friends with you as
>> possible. I guarantee you will not be disappointed -- and you may 
>> just see
>> one of the best films of the year.
>>
>> Monday night in Times Square, "Bowling for Columbine" had its 
>> premiere. The
>> crowd was amazing, as it was this past Saturday night at the Chicago 
>> Film
>> Festival. The audience kept laughing or hooting or applauding so loud
>> throughout the film that it was hard to hear the next line.
>>
>> The hate mail, the threats, the promises of retribution have already
>> started
>> to roll in to the distributor of this movie, United Artists. They are 
>> not
>> backing down. But how long will this last? I need all of you in the 
>> New
>> York
>> tri-state and southern California areas to go see "Bowling for 
>> Columbine"
>> THIS weekend -- the rest of you can see it in a couple of weeks when 
>> it
>> comes to your town. A strong opening not only means that the rest of
>> America
>> will see this film, it means that a good number of people who see it 
>> are
>> going to leave the film angry enough to get active and get involved. 
>> If it
>> does poorly, I will have a difficult time finding the funding for the 
>> movie
>> I want to make next -- a film about 9/11 and how Bush is using that 
>> tragic
>> day as a cover for his right-wing agenda.
>>
>> Don't let that happen. Don't let the NRA have one more success by 
>> stopping
>> the wider distribution of this movie. And, together, let us not remain
>> silent in our opposition to Bush's phony war against Iraq.
>>
>> If you live in New York, you can see it at the Lincoln Plaza, the 
>> Sunshine
>> and the Loews 19th St. In L.A., you can catch it at the Sunset 5, the
>> Westwood Regent, Laemmle Sunset, Laemmle Towncenter (Encino), Landmark
>> Rialto (Pasadena), and Regal University (Irvine). Also, please 
>> forward this
>> to your other friends and tell them to go see "Bowling for Columbine" 
>> this
>> weekend.
>>
>> And finally, don't miss our new website www.bowlingforcolumbine.com
>>
>> Thank you for your help with this. I feel so honored and privileged 
>> to have
>> so many people interested in my work. Last January I was getting 
>> 70,000
>> hits
>> a month on my website. Last month, I got 17 million hits. This alone 
>> speaks
>> volumes about the vast majority all of us belong to who are sick and 
>> tired
>> of what is going on and are longing for an alternative source of
>> information.
>>
>> I hope that you enjoy "Bowling for Columbine."
>>
>> Thank you again...
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Michael Moore
>>
>> ---
>>
>> If you wish to be be unsubscribed from this mailing list, please 
>> click the
>> link below and follow the instructions.
>>
>> http://www.michaelmoore.com/mailing/unsubscribe.php
>


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1026.b2ee7b3cb90365641e465cfede58a672.eml000066400000000000000000000075211444326627400312700ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-workers-admin@redhat.com  Mon Aug 26 19:03:29 2002
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lately I've got the feeling that exmh is getting slower and slower. I 
just decided to check that vs. reality, and yes, speed has left the 
scene somewhere between the release of 2.5 and now.

I checked on a number of small messages in a big folder (~10000 
msgs). The delay of the Next button has increased considerably:

2.5-release: 350-450 msec
latest cvs: 1000-12000 msec

Frankly I think this is getting close to non-acceptable since the 
user settings hasn't changed.

Anybody have any ideas where performance disappeared?

/Anders



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To: Anders Eriksson 
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Subject: Re: Exmh && speed
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--==_Exmh_1521948024P
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> From:  Anders Eriksson 
> Date:  Mon, 26 Aug 2002 20:00:36 +0200
>
> 
> lately I've got the feeling that exmh is getting slower and slower. I 
> just decided to check that vs. reality, and yes, speed has left the 
> scene somewhere between the release of 2.5 and now.
> 
> I checked on a number of small messages in a big folder (~10000 
> msgs). The delay of the Next button has increased considerably:
> 
> 2.5-release: 350-450 msec
> latest cvs: 1000-12000 msec
> 
> Frankly I think this is getting close to non-acceptable since the 
> user settings hasn't changed.
> 
> Anybody have any ideas where performance disappeared?

Most likely in the added overhead of managing more sequences.

I'm sure it can be tuned a bunch, but as I'm leaving for a vacation on Friday, 
and have plenty of "real work" to do, I won't be able to do much until I get 
back.

I *will* look at all this when I get back, but if you want to check into 
what's slow and fix things while I'm gone, my feelings won't be hurt.

Chris

-- 
Chris Garrigues                 http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/
virCIO                          http://www.virCIO.Com
716 Congress, Suite 200
Austin, TX  78701		+1 512 374 0500

  World War III:  The Wrong-Doers Vs. the Evil-Doers.




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--==_Exmh_-1913987426P
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On Mon, 26 Aug 2002 20:00:36 +0200, Anders Eriksson   said:

> I checked on a number of small messages in a big folder (~10000 
> msgs). The delay of the Next button has increased considerably:
> 
> 2.5-release: 350-450 msec
> latest cvs: 1000-12000 msec

I'm not seeing a hit on 'next'. A quick "just pound on 'next' and watch the
wall clock" test shows me able to go through 20 messages in under 5 seconds,
so it's well under 250ms per switch, but I'm seeing a really piggy CPU spike
(100% for a few seconds) in the 'flist' code.  Of course, it seems to be
related to number-of-folders:

[~] wc Mail/.folders
    131     131    1122 Mail/.folders

It's particularly annoying because things just hose-and-hang for 10 seconds, so
when it hits, you have a long latency before what you're doing actually
happens...

14:08:54 Background_DoPeriodic flist
14:08:54 Flist_FindSeqs reset=0
14:08:54 FlistFindStart reset=0 active=0
14:08:56 Reading /home/valdis/Mail/exmh/.mh_sequences
14:08:56 exmh has 1 msgs in unseen
14:08:56 1 unseen message in 1 folder
14:08:56 {In FlagInner up iconup labelup}
14:08:56 {Setting flag glyph to iconup}
14:08:56 {Set flag state to up}
14:08:58 Reading /home/valdis/Mail/list-spams/.mh_sequences
14:08:58 list-spams has 1 msgs in unseen
14:08:58 2 unseen messages in 2 folders
14:08:58 {In FlagInner up iconup labelup}
14:09:02 Reading /home/valdis/Mail/trash/.mh_sequences
14:09:02 trash has 2 msgs in pseq
14:09:03 /home/valdis/Mail/xemacs/7508 not found
14:09:03 /home/valdis/Mail/xemacs/7507 not found
14:09:03 /home/valdis/Mail/xemacs/7508 not found
14:09:03 /home/valdis/Mail/xemacs/7507 not found
14:09:03 {pseq: 7506-7508 => 7506}
14:09:03 Writing /home/valdis/Mail/xemacs/.mh_sequences
14:09:03 xemacs has 1 msgs in pseq
14:09:03 Flist_Done

And it takes a hit even if there's no new mail:

14:11:03 Background_DoPeriodic flist
14:11:03 Flist_FindSeqs reset=0
14:11:03 FlistFindStart reset=0 active=0
14:11:12 Flist_Done
14:11:12 Flist_FindSeqs end {9018315 microseconds per iteration}

I'm perfectly willing to can-opener that code and see where the CPU is
going, but only if nobody is slapping their forehead and mumbling about
a brown-paper-bag bug... ;)
-- 
				Valdis Kletnieks
				Computer Systems Senior Engineer
				Virginia Tech


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To: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu
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Subject: Re: Exmh && speed
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--==_Exmh_1581673767P
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> From:  Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu
> Date:  Mon, 26 Aug 2002 14:22:46 -0400
>
> I'm perfectly willing to can-opener that code and see where the CPU is
> going, but only if nobody is slapping their forehead and mumbling about
> a brown-paper-bag bug... ;)

As I mentioned in my email to Anders, it's certainly in my code and I don't 
have time to work on it right now, so I would not be offended if you worked on 
it.

I just this moment found out that my partner has promised a few things would be 
done before my vacation that will require my efforts, so it's even more true 
that it was when I sent the mail to Anders.

Chris

-- 
Chris Garrigues                 http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/
virCIO                          http://www.virCIO.Com
716 Congress, Suite 200
Austin, TX  78701		+1 512 374 0500

  World War III:  The Wrong-Doers Vs. the Evil-Doers.




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cwg-dated-1030817858.a49b7e@DeepEddy.Com said:
> From:  Anders Eriksson 
> Date:  Mon, 26 Aug 2002 20:00:36 +0200 >
> 
> lately I've got the feeling that exmh is getting slower and slower. I 
> just decided to check that vs. reality, and yes, speed has left the 
> scene somewhere between the release of 2.5 and now.
> 
> I checked on a number of small messages in a big folder (~10000 
> msgs). The delay of the Next button has increased considerably:
> 
> 2.5-release: 350-450 msec
> latest cvs: 1000-12000 msec
> 
> Frankly I think this is getting close to non-acceptable since the 
> user settings hasn't changed.
> 
> Anybody have any ideas where performance disappeared?
> Most likely in the added overhead of managing more sequences.
> I'm sure it can be tuned a bunch, but as I'm leaving for a vacation on
> Friday,  and have plenty of "real work" to do, I won't be able to do
> much until I get  back.

> I *will* look at all this when I get back, but if you want to check
> into  what's slow and fix things while I'm gone, my feelings won't be
> hurt.

> Chris 

Just one more info. I measured the time spent wrapping the stuff in 
Ftoc_Next with time {} so the data is for real. One difference 
between mine and Valdis' setup (judging from his trace) is that I use 
the address book. I've been doing that for ages so that can't be the 
problem.

Is there a way to get the log to print time with higher granularity?

/A






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To: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu
Cc: exmh-workers@example.com
Subject: Re: Exmh && speed
In-Reply-To: Message from Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu of
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Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu said:
> I checked on a number of small messages in a big folder (~10000 
> msgs). The delay of the Next button has increased considerably:
> 
> 2.5-release: 350-450 msec
> latest cvs: 1000-12000 msec
> I'm not seeing a hit on 'next'. A quick "just pound on 'next' and
> watch the wall clock" test shows me able to go through 20 messages in
> under 5 seconds, so it's well under 250ms per switch, but I'm seeing a
> really piggy CPU spike (100% for a few seconds) in the 'flist' code.
> Of course, it seems to be related to number-of-folders:

> [~] wc Mail/.folders
>     131     131    1122 Mail/.folders 

I have 167 folders (!) and run with bg-proc set to flist (1 minute). 
I see delays, but not that much. Maybe 1-3 seconds (which tend to 
disappear these days). This is on a PII-266.

BR,
/A



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> From:  Anders Eriksson 
> Date:  Tue, 27 Aug 2002 00:34:43 +0200
>
> Just one more info. I measured the time spent wrapping the stuff in 
> Ftoc_Next with time {} so the data is for real. One difference 
> between mine and Valdis' setup (judging from his trace) is that I use 
> the address book. I've been doing that for ages so that can't be the 
> problem.

Assuming it's my fault (which it probably is since nobody else has really been 
in there), it's most likely related to the number of sequences in a folder.  
I'd guess that something is either being called that shouldn't be or is being 
called more times than it should be.

> Is there a way to get the log to print time with higher granularity?

Not that I'm aware of.  If you look in the code, there are various places 
where the time function is called in order to see how long it took to do 
things.  You'll probably want to borrow that technique.

Chris

-- 
Chris Garrigues                 http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/
virCIO                          http://www.virCIO.Com
716 Congress, Suite 200
Austin, TX  78701		+1 512 374 0500

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--==_Exmh_927886807P
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> From:  Anders Eriksson 
> Date:  Mon, 26 Aug 2002 20:00:36 +0200
>
> 
> lately I've got the feeling that exmh is getting slower and slower. I 
> just decided to check that vs. reality, and yes, speed has left the 
> scene somewhere between the release of 2.5 and now.
> 
> I checked on a number of small messages in a big folder (~10000 
> msgs). The delay of the Next button has increased considerably:
> 
> 2.5-release: 350-450 msec
> latest cvs: 1000-12000 msec
> 
> Frankly I think this is getting close to non-acceptable since the 
> user settings hasn't changed.
> 
> Anybody have any ideas where performance disappeared?

Here's a fix that I think will make a real difference.

Ftoc_ShowSequences needs to be able to be called with an optional list of msgids 
to update and if it's called that way it only removes or adds tags for those 
messages.  Then in places like MsgChange, we only update the messages which have
changed.

Also, a separate Ftoc_ShowSequence function which only updates the display of 
one sequence should be written which also takes an optional list of msgids.  
In a place like MsgChange, it would only need to update the cur sequence.

If nobody else gets to it, I'll do this when I get back.

Chris

-- 
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> Hi,
> 
> On Sun, 01 Sep 2002 00:05:03 MDT Reg Clemens wrote: 
>   
> [...]
> > in messages with GnuPG signatures.  But punching the line ALWAYS
> > gives
> > 
> >         Signature made Thu Aug 29 00:27:17 2002 MDT using DSA key ID BDDF997A
> >         Can't check signature: public key not found
> > 
> > So, something else is missing.
> 
> Yes, the public key of the signature you want to check :-).
> 
> Are you really sure that you have the public key of the message's
> signature? If not, try downloading it or try to check a signature from
> which you know you have the public key.
> 
> 
> 

Ah, sorry for not making that clearer.
But no.
Previously (v1.0.6 of GnuPG) there would be a slight pause at this point while
it went out to get the public key from a keyserver.
Now, whether I have the key or NOT, I get the failure message.

Its as if it cant find gpg to execute it (but I fixed that path), so there
must be something else that I am missing...


-- 
                                        Reg.Clemens
                                        reg@dwf.com




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From: Ingo Frommholz 
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Hi,

On Sun, 01 Sep 2002 00:05:03 MDT Reg Clemens wrote: 
  
[...]
> in messages with GnuPG signatures.  But punching the line ALWAYS
> gives
> 
>         Signature made Thu Aug 29 00:27:17 2002 MDT using DSA key ID BDDF997A
>         Can't check signature: public key not found
> 
> So, something else is missing.

Yes, the public key of the signature you want to check :-).

Are you really sure that you have the public key of the message's
signature? If not, try downloading it or try to check a signature from
which you know you have the public key.



Regards,

Ingo

-- 
Ingo Frommholz                             PGP public keys on homepage
ingo@frommholz.org                           http://www.frommholz.org/
My childhood inspection is my record collection (Ned's Atomic Dustbin)




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To: Reg Clemens 
Cc: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Re: ARRRGHHH Had GPG working, now it doesnt.
In-Reply-To: <200209021953.g82Jrerq003365@orion.dwf.com>
References: <200209021953.g82Jrerq003365@orion.dwf.com>
Comments: In-reply-to Reg Clemens  message dated "Mon, 02 Sep
    2002 13:53:40 -0600."
From: Brent Welch 
X-Url: http://www.panasas.com/
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2 things - first, the switch parser changed in a subtle way with 8.4 -
byte-code compilation was added, and it is slightly more strict in
its parsing than the original parser.  You can only have a comment where
Tcl would expect to find a command.  Switch has a "pattern - body"
strucutre, so if you goof and put a comment where it is trying to find
a pattern, both of you will be confused with the results.  The
subtlty arises with extra whitespace and newlines. I can't give you
the exact case, but I know exmh had one example that stopped parsing
correctly, and was arguably wrong before.

2nd - I've managed to remain fairly ignoranat of the PGP support in
exmh, so you'll have to dig in yourself or see if someone else on
exmh-users or exmh-workers is having similar problems.

>>>Reg Clemens said:
 > > If you haven't already, you should enable the debug log under
 > > Hacking Support preferences and look for clues there.
 > > 
 > > >>>Reg Clemens said:
 > >  > > Hi,
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > On Sun, 01 Sep 2002 00:05:03 MDT Reg Clemens wrote: 
 > >  > >   
 > >  > > [...]
 > >  > > > in messages with GnuPG signatures.  But punching the line ALWAYS
 > >  > > > gives
 > >  > > > 
 > >  > > >         Signature made Thu Aug 29 00:27:17 2002 MDT using DSA key I
     D BDD
 > >      F997A
 > >  > > >         Can't check signature: public key not found
 > >  > > > 
 > >  > > > So, something else is missing.
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > Yes, the public key of the signature you want to check :-).
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > Are you really sure that you have the public key of the message's
 > >  > > signature? If not, try downloading it or try to check a signature fro
     m
 > >  > > which you know you have the public key.
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > > 
 > >  > 
 > >  > Ah, sorry for not making that clearer.
 > >  > But no.
 > >  > Previously (v1.0.6 of GnuPG) there would be a slight pause at this poin
     t whi
 > >      le
 > >  > it went out to get the public key from a keyserver.
 > >  > Now, whether I have the key or NOT, I get the failure message.
 > >  > 
 > >  > Its as if it cant find gpg to execute it (but I fixed that path), so th
     ere
 > >  > must be something else that I am missing...
 > >  > 
 > >  > 
 > >  > -- 
 > >  >                                         Reg.Clemens
 > >  >                                         reg@dwf.com
 > >  > 
 > >  > 
 > >  > 
 > >  > 
 > >  > _______________________________________________
 > >  > Exmh-users mailing list
 > >  > Exmh-users@redhat.com
 > >  > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/exmh-users
 > > 
 > > --
 > > Brent Welch
 > > Software Architect, Panasas Inc
 > > Pioneering the World's Most Scalable and Agile Storage Network
 > > www.panasas.com
 > > welch@panasas.com
 > > 
 > 
 > 
 > Partial solution.
 > And this MAY be related to using tcl/tk 8.4b1, as I had a similar
 > problem about a month ago elsewhere in EXMH (which you found).
 > 
 > But first.
 > I really feel like something has changed out from under me
 > with my making no changes to EXMH.  Namely, when I first got
 > GPG up and working (for reading signatures) all I did was
 > touch the 'Check Signature' button' and it went out and queried
 > the keyserver for me.
 > Now Im getting a separate box, after the failure to find the
 > public key on my keyring, asking me of I want to 'Query keyserver'
 > 
 > I KNOW that I never had to touch a 'Query keyserver' button in
 > the past, but there it is now, and I havent touched EXMH. Spooky.
 > 
 > I have been working back and forth between GPG 1.0.6 and 1.0.7
 > but its not clear how that could be the problem, as Im now getting
 > the 'Query' message when running either...
 > 
 > ---
 > 
 > OK, enough about my confusion.
 > The CURRENT problem seems to be a COMMENT in a SWITCH statement
 > at line 86 in pgpWWW.tcl.  Tcl 8.4b1 doesnt like it and I get your
 > popup box.  Remove it and no popupbox, but EXMH hangs (sigh).
 > So, not a complete solution, but at least a start.
 > 
 > Thanks for the interest.
 > 
 > 					Reg.Clemens
 > 					reg@dwf.com

--
Brent Welch
Software Architect, Panasas Inc
Pioneering the World's Most Scalable and Agile Storage Network
www.panasas.com
welch@panasas.com



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To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Changed location of incoming mail. exmh not working!!
From: Siva Doriaswamy 
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I use exmh 2.5 with procmail for presorting incoming mail and move it to
the relevant folder using rcvstore.

Recently, my incoming mail (or spool) location moved to another disk.
I'm not quite clear how to reconfigure procmail/rcvstore/exmh to accept
mail from the new location.

There seems to be a variable in exmh-defaults (bgspool). It says at the
top of the file not to edit these lines. So, I went ahead and edited it :-)
That does not make a difference.

It seems like procmail is the one that is actually reading the mail from
my spool/incoming mail area and piping it to rcvstore. So, I need to
configure that probably.

Any idea how I would do this?

Thanks
Siva



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To: exmh-users@example.com
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In-Reply-To: Your message of
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    <200209052140.g85Ler718109@siva.sandcraft.com>
From: Robert Waldner 
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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You'll need PGP or GPG to check the signature.

------------=_1031266655-417-16
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


On Thu, 05 Sep 2002 14:40:53 PDT, Siva Doriaswamy writes:
>Recently, my incoming mail (or spool) location moved to another disk.
>I'm not quite clear how to reconfigure procmail/rcvstore/exmh to accept
>mail from the new location.

How do you feed procmail? Not with a .forward, I'd guess.

How does mail enter your system anyway? Per fetchmail maybe? Or direct 
 SMTP-delivery? Or does it just magically hit your spool?

Lotsa questions...

cheers,
&rw
-- 
-- Booze: because one doesn't solve the world's problems over white wine.



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------------=_1031266655-417-16--



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1058.f26006b375cfbfb03f4903683f585808.eml000066400000000000000000000072101444326627400307710ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Mon Sep  9 20:33:38 2002
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Is there a way to do a global Sort command? Here's the situation: I like to 
sort by date every folder. I'm cleaning up my inbox from most recent to oldest, 
since I find this direction most efficient (I guess because it helps me 
recognize the significance of individual, old messages). But this adds messages 
to my other folders in the wrong order. When I'm done, I'd like to re-sort all 
the folders I've changed.

--
rick



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1059.5b0713200efcabb71c7005b32e726a60.eml000066400000000000000000000076221444326627400310670ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Mon Sep  9 20:33:42 2002
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To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Re: Sorting
From: Tom Reingold 
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On Mon, 09 Sep 2002 12:05:55 PDT,
	Rick Baartman  wrote:

> Is there a way to do a global Sort command? Here's the situation:
> I like to sort by date every folder. I'm cleaning up my inbox from
> most recent to oldest, since I find this direction most efficient (I
> guess because it helps me recognize the significance of individual,
> old messages). But this adds messages to my other folders in the
> wrong order. When I'm done, I'd like to re-sort all the folders I've
> changed.

I don't understand.  How does sorting one folder add messages to
other folders?  What do you use to sort?

Tom



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1060.f4a2a100431a65ef190bfdeae5a044b2.eml000066400000000000000000000072771444326627400313060ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Mon Sep  9 20:33:50 2002
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Subject: Re: Sorting
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References: <20020909191229.EBB3DB1@whatexit.org>
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> I don't understand.  How does sorting one folder add messages to
> other folders?  What do you use to sort?
> 

Sorry I wasn't clear. I am transferring messages from my inbox to other folders 
and since I am doing it from most recent to oldest, they appear in those 
folders in the wrong order and need re-sorting.

--
rick



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1061.88a372affb7c0cadfe3062af414ff7a4.eml000066400000000000000000000111011444326627400314570ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Tue Sep 10 11:22:35 2002
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To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Re: Sorting
From: Tom Reingold 
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On Mon, 09 Sep 2002 12:21:42 PDT,
	Rick Baartman  wrote:

> Sorry I wasn't clear. I am transferring messages from my inbox to
> other folders and since I am doing it from most recent to oldest, they
> appear in those folders in the wrong order and need re-sorting.

OK, gotcha.

I don't think you can do that with exmh, but you can do it on the
command line, if you use sh or ksh:

	for f in `folders -fast -r`
	do
		echo sorting $f ...
		sortm +$f
	done

It could take a long time.

At work, I have to use Outlook.  Ick.  I hate it.  But it does a few
things right.  Like making indices for each folder, and not just by
date, but also by sender, message size, subject.  So I can sort by any
column instantly.

I believe this is possible, too, with an IMAP compliant reader,
provided the IMAP server makes such indices.

I am facing the fact that exmh has been left behind in some industry
standards.  I use it for my personal mail.  My mail server runs unix,
and I connect over ssh and tunnel my X traffic over ssh.  With a slow
link, this makes exmh very slow.  And mime handling is pretty bad
compared with modern mailers.  I am just scared to move.  I've been
using MH or nmh since 1985 and exmh since 1995.  17 years is a long
time!



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1062.aa014dbebbc0ab2df502e9a03f140599.eml000066400000000000000000000106011444326627400313530ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Tue Sep 10 11:22:37 2002
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From: Jacob Morzinski 
To: 
Subject: Re: Sorting
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On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Rick Baartman wrote:
> Is there a way to do a global Sort command?


Wanting to sort like that is not common; I'd be surprised if exmh has
a widget for it.  You can achieve what you want with the command-line
mh tools, though.
I suggest doing the following from a shell prompt:

 sh -c 'for f in "`folders -recurse -fast`" ; do sortm +"$f" ; done'

(The command "sortm" will sort a particular folder, and
"folders -recurse -fast" prints out a list of all of your folders.)


I hope this helps,
 Jacob Morzinski                                jmorzins@mit.edu



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1063.1efa0c16fac1c545a6cec35f06f38d2a.eml000066400000000000000000000105761444326627400314650ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Tue Sep 10 11:22:40 2002
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To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Exmh/nmh (was Sorting)...
In-Reply-To: Your message of
    "Mon, 09 Sep 2002 15:36:37 EDT."
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> I am facing the fact that exmh has been left behind in some industry
> standards.  I use it for my personal mail.  My mail server runs unix,
> and I connect over ssh and tunnel my X traffic over ssh.  With a slow
> link, this makes exmh very slow.  And mime handling is pretty bad
> compared with modern mailers.

These are some good comments and I'd like to share an opinion here.  (Is that permitted? :)

I started using linux about 8 or 9 years ago in rebellion against what the university was doing with Winder$.  I just couldn't get good support and was using a lot of unix-based tools (ported to Winder$) anyway. So, I jumped ship and became my own sysadm.

What I got was the easy ability to use a shell (now ssh) to connect to my office box from just about anywhere and use either exmh or nmh (from the command line).  I can do email for the office fairly easily.

I haven't seen any other tools that let me do that yet.  But, I have to admit, that some of the web-based mail software is getting pretty close.  Quoting and such is still primitive, but they're moving forward.

-=d



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1064.cc185e02744782aa86371b064d602e62.eml000066400000000000000000000102151444326627400306660ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Tue Sep 10 11:22:51 2002
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> On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Rick Baartman wrote:
> > Is there a way to do a global Sort command?
> 
> 
> Wanting to sort like that is not common; I'd be surprised if exmh has
> a widget for it.  You can achieve what you want with the command-line
> mh tools, though.
> I suggest doing the following from a shell prompt:
> 
>  sh -c 'for f in "`folders -recurse -fast`" ; do sortm +"$f" ; done'
> 
> (The command "sortm" will sort a particular folder, and
> "folders -recurse -fast" prints out a list of all of your folders.)
> 
> 
Thanks Tom and Jacob. The above works, but without the double quotes: i.e. 

sh -c 'for f in `folders -recurse -fast` ; do sortm +"$f" ; done'

I'd attach this command to the sorting menu if I knew any tcl...

--
rick



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1065.966bd4583cf8a6dcd4d8dcfe20120041.eml000066400000000000000000000075401444326627400312610ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Tue Sep 10 11:23:15 2002
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> > On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Rick Baartman wrote:
> Thanks Tom and Jacob. The above works, but without the double quotes: i.e. 
> 
> sh -c 'for f in `folders -recurse -fast` ; do sortm +"$f" ; done'
> 
But there is a problem with making changes outside of exmh: the .xmhcache files 
don't get updated. This is dangerous; I have to remember to re-scan each folder 
I enter. Is there a safeguard for this?

--
rick




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1066.45693bec27d1b4b1651e236bd4366cdc.eml000066400000000000000000000107221444326627400311730ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Tue Sep 10 11:23:18 2002
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From: Jacob Morzinski 
To: 
Subject: Re: Sorting
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> >  sh -c 'for f in "`folders -recurse -fast`" ; do sortm +"$f" ; done'

> Thanks Tom and Jacob. The above works, but without the double quotes: i.e.
>
> sh -c 'for f in `folders -recurse -fast` ; do sortm +"$f" ; done'

I may have a different version of "sh" than you do; the double quotes
around the backticks work for my "sh".

(In the more-than-you-really-wanted-to-know category, you're probably
safe without the double quotes.  The only reason I put them in is that
I have some pathologically-named folders, including folders whose
names contain spaces.  If all your folders have safe names, you don't
need special quoting.)


 -Jacob



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1067.b872a9f6853971d7190007a64d60e381.eml000066400000000000000000000077251444326627400306460ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Tue Sep 10 11:23:22 2002
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To: Rick Baartman 
Cc: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Re: Sorting
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>>>>> On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, "Rick" == Rick Baartman wrote:

  Rick> This is dangerous; I have to remember to re-scan each
  Rick> folder I enter. Is there a safeguard for this?

Nope.  Regenerate the cache in the script

	for f in `folders -fast -r`
	do
		echo sorting $f ...
		sortm +$f
		scan `mhpath +`/$f/.xmhcache
	done

--Hal




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1068.3a4e8387265236bd326736c63dfa1ce0.eml000066400000000000000000000111521444326627400310400ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Tue Sep 10 11:23:33 2002
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--==_Exmh_16073047980
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I suspect that as part of Chris' set of changes, he cleaned up the
use of the variable that was named "L" in FtocCommit (in ftoc.tcl).
Its name got changed from L to lineno

But there's one reference of $L left.   That causes tracebacks if
you attempt to use "link" with the current CVS version of exmh.

I guess that most of us don't use "link" very often ... I noticed it
last week, but only got time to look and see why today.

If someone with the ability to commit to the CVS repository would
apply the following patch (to lib/ftoc.tcl) that would be nice.
(It works... and is trivial, and you could perhaps just apply it by
making the change with an editor faster than saving this patch and
applying it - there's only one instance of $L in the file, that
should be changed to $lineno)

kre



--==_Exmh_16073047980
Content-Type: text/plain ; name="patch"; charset=us-ascii
Content-Description: patch
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="PATCH"

--- ftoc.tcl.PREV	Wed Aug 21 15:01:48 2002
+++ ftoc.tcl	Tue Sep 10 12:47:06 2002
@@ -1131,9 +1131,9 @@
 		}
 	    }
 	    incr ftoc(numMsgs) -1
 	} else {
-	    FtocUnmarkInner $L
+	    FtocUnmarkInner $lineno
 	}
 	incr ftoc(changed) -1
     }
     if {$delmsgs != {}} {

--==_Exmh_16073047980--




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In-Reply-To: <5305.1031637136@munnari.OZ.AU>
References: <5305.1031637136@munnari.OZ.AU>
Comments: In-reply-to Robert Elz  message dated "Tue,
    10 Sep 2002 12:52:16 +0700."
From: Brent Welch 
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Done

>>>Robert Elz said:
 > I suspect that as part of Chris' set of changes, he cleaned up the
 > use of the variable that was named "L" in FtocCommit (in ftoc.tcl).
 > Its name got changed from L to lineno
 > 
 > But there's one reference of $L left.   That causes tracebacks if
 > you attempt to use "link" with the current CVS version of exmh.
 > 
 > I guess that most of us don't use "link" very often ... I noticed it
 > last week, but only got time to look and see why today.
 > 
 > If someone with the ability to commit to the CVS repository would
 > apply the following patch (to lib/ftoc.tcl) that would be nice.
 > (It works... and is trivial, and you could perhaps just apply it by
 > making the change with an editor faster than saving this patch and
 > applying it - there's only one instance of $L in the file, that
 > should be changed to $lineno)
 > 
 > kre
 > 
 > 
 > --- ftoc.tcl.PREV	Wed Aug 21 15:01:48 2002
 > +++ ftoc.tcl	Tue Sep 10 12:47:06 2002
 > @@ -1131,9 +1131,9 @@
 >  		}
 >  	    }
 >  	    incr ftoc(numMsgs) -1
 >  	} else {
 > -	    FtocUnmarkInner $L
 > +	    FtocUnmarkInner $lineno
 >  	}
 >  	incr ftoc(changed) -1
 >      }
 >      if {$delmsgs != {}} {
 > 
 > --==_Exmh_16073047980--

--
Brent Welch
Software Architect, Panasas Inc
Pioneering the World's Most Scalable and Agile Storage Network
www.panasas.com
welch@panasas.com



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------------=_1031642648-417-32
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On Mon, 09 Sep 2002 22:06:58 CDT, Hal DeVore writes:
>		scan `mhpath +`/$f/.xmhcache

Shouldn't that read
               scan >`mhpath +`/$f/.xmhcache
 ?

(And, JIC something else changed the context in the background, it 
 doesn't hurt to explicitly state the folder:
               scan "+$f" >`mhpath +`/$f/.xmhcache
 )

cheers,
&rw
-- 
-- "The problem with the IBM keyboards I have is that when you
-- use them to beat lusers, the caps come off the keys.
-- No real damage, but still a nuisance."   -- Martijn Berlage



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On Mon, 09 Sep 2002 15:36:37 -0400 
Tom Reingold  wrote:

> At work, I have to use Outlook.  Ick.  I hate it.  

Ahh.  At work we fire people who use Outlook (Literally true: They get
escorted to the door, their badge confiscated, and told to return the
next day to collect their office contents).

> But it does a few things right.  Like making indices for each folder,
> and not just by date, but also by sender, message size, subject.  So I
> can sort by any column instantly.

Have you looked into using a custom sequences file?

> And mime handling is pretty bad compared with modern mailers.

The only thing I actually miss in that regard is support for S/MIME.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw@kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.



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Subject: Re: Sorting
From: Tom Reingold 
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    10 Sep 2002 01:20:56 PDT <20020909193637.590BBB1@whatexit.org>
    <29945.1031646056@kanga.nu>
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On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 01:20:56 PDT,
	J C Lawrence  wrote:

> On Mon, 09 Sep 2002 15:36:37 -0400 
> Tom Reingold  wrote:
> 
> > At work, I have to use Outlook.  Ick.  I hate it.  
> 
> Ahh.  At work we fire people who use Outlook (Literally true: They get
> escorted to the door, their badge confiscated, and told to return the
> next day to collect their office contents).

Why?  What threat does Outlook pose to your organization?

> > But it does a few things right.  Like making indices for each folder,
> > and not just by date, but also by sender, message size, subject.  So I
> > can sort by any column instantly.
> 
> Have you looked into using a custom sequences file?

More detail please?  I do use sequences, so I'm familiar with their
use, but how can I make indices with them, and how can I keep them
up to date?

> > And mime handling is pretty bad compared with modern mailers.
> 
> The only thing I actually miss in that regard is support for S/MIME.

You're probably running exmh on a local machine.  I'm running it on
a very remote machine.  In this scenario, the mime handling is weak.



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1073.3c644d088e1e9201208b906f0f062c48.eml000066400000000000000000000076701444326627400307030ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Tue Sep 10 15:47:06 2002
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To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Re: Sorting
In-Reply-To: noglider's message of Tue, 10 Sep 2002 10:29:26 -0400.
    <20020910142926.C5DF2A7@whatexit.org>
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Tom Reingold wrote:

> > 
> > Ahh.  At work we fire people who use Outlook (Literally true:
> > They get escorted to the door, their badge confiscated, and
> > told to return the next day to collect their office contents).
> 
> Why?  What threat does Outlook pose to your organization?
> 

It has been described as "the technological equivalent of
soliciting blood transfusions from random strangers in the
street".  In short - it's a virus magnet.







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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1074.3f586c8b4870fb60157afbad2e076b17.eml000066400000000000000000000135101444326627400312000ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Wed Sep 11 13:41:41 2002
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To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Re: Sorting
In-Reply-To: Message from Tom Reingold  of
    "Tue, 10 Sep 2002 10:29:26 EDT."
    <20020910142926.C5DF2A7@whatexit.org>
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On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 10:29:26 -0400 
Tom Reingold  wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 01:20:56 PDT, J C Lawrence  wrote:

>> Ahh.  At work we fire people who use Outlook (Literally true: They
>> get escorted to the door, their badge confiscated, and told to return
>> the next day to collect their office contents).

> Why?  What threat does Outlook pose to your organization?

It places the company, corporate network and data at risk.

Outlook is subject to an (absurdly large) number of exploits with more
being regularly found.  An exploited system, to whatever extent, places
other corporate systems at risk, customer systems at risk, company
reputation and liability with customers at risk, and
proprietary/corporate data at risk.  Further, users cannot be reliably
expected to use Outlook in a safe manner.  The net result is that
Outlook use is considered to be somewhere between criminal negligence
and deliberately malicious as far as the employer is concerned.

>> Have you looked into using a custom sequences file?

> More detail please?  I do use sequences, so I'm familiar with their
> use, but how can I make indices with them, and how can I keep them up
> to date?

I don't use custom sequences, so I can't comment well.  I suspect that
you'd have to use a cron job to maintain the sequences.

>> The only thing I actually miss in that regard is support for S/MIME.

> You're probably running exmh on a local machine.  I'm running it on a
> very remote machine.  In this scenario, the mime handling is weak.

Nope.  I run exmh on my desktops at home and at work with the resulting
exmh windows being displayed on both my work and home desktops (gratis
SSH X11 forwarding).  In fact, your message was read and replied to
(this message) while at work, using an exmh instance running on my home
machine.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw@kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1075.3de216ecf7ce7145a20445d504976e2d.eml000066400000000000000000000122431444326627400311210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Wed Sep 11 13:42:07 2002
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To: exmh-users@example.com
Cc: Rick Baartman 
Subject: Re: Sorting
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    <3642.1031627218@dimebox>
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--Multipart_Tue_Sep_10_08:56:11_2002-1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

> From: Hal DeVore 
> Sender: exmh-users-admin@example.com
> Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 22:06:58 -0500
> 
> 
> 
> >>>>> On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, "Rick" == Rick Baartman wrote:
> 
>   Rick> This is dangerous; I have to remember to re-scan each
>   Rick> folder I enter. Is there a safeguard for this?
> 
> Nope.  Regenerate the cache in the script
> 
> 	for f in `folders -fast -r`
> 	do
> 		echo sorting $f ...
> 		sortm +$f
> 		scan `mhpath +`/$f/.xmhcache
> 	done
> 
> --Hal

Here is the little script I run I run nightly from cron. It does a
general tidying of things including sorting and updating the cache.

I didn't write it and I'm afraid I have lost track of who did, but
it's worked well for years. I run a similar one to update the glimpse
indices nightly.

R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer
Energy Sciences Network (ESnet)
Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab)
E-mail: oberman@es.net			Phone: +1 510 486-8634


--Multipart_Tue_Sep_10_08:56:11_2002-1
Content-Type: application/octet-stream
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="swasort"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

#!/bin/tcsh -f
# 
#  Sorts all folders
#
#  We don't want to sort the drafts folder (and the folders ~/Mail/.glimpse/)
#
#  default field to sort .: date
#  default scan width ....: 100
#
set MH_DIR=/usr/local/nmh/bin
set MAIL=/home/oberman/Mail

# update $MAIL/.folders
$MH_DIR/folders -fast -recurse -all > $MAIL/.folders

# thru all folders ...
foreach i ( `cat $MAIL/.folders | grep -v \.glim | grep -v drafts` )

    # sort the stuff
    $MH_DIR/mh/sortm +$i -datefield date >& /dev/null

    # and update the cache
    $MH_DIR/scan +$i -width 100 > $MAIL/$i/.xmhcache
end

--Multipart_Tue_Sep_10_08:56:11_2002-1--



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To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Re: Sorting
From: Tom Reingold 
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On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 15:43:32 BST,
	James Gibbon  wrote:

> 
> Tom Reingold wrote:
>
> > Why?  What threat does Outlook pose to your organization?
> > 
> 
> It has been described as "the technological equivalent of
> soliciting blood transfusions from random strangers in the
> street".  In short - it's a virus magnet.

Oh, that.  Well, you're right.




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To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Re: Sorting
In-Reply-To: Your message of
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    <1528.1031675232@kanga.nu>
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> > You're probably running exmh on a local machine.  I'm running it on a
> > very remote machine.  In this scenario, the mime handling is weak.
> 
> Nope.  I run exmh on my desktops at home and at work with the resulting
> exmh windows being displayed on both my work and home desktops (gratis
> SSH X11 forwarding).

I run exmh routinely from home (broadband) using an XWindows Client tunneled through ssh under  WinXP.  It works very well in this fashion.

FWIW, I use Eudora under Winder$ because it's less of a virus magnet.  :)

There's more to the story why I run Winder$, but that's really off-topic and I'm already guilty!

-=d



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To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Re: Sorting
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References: <200209092111.g89LBH703076@lin12.triumf.ca>
    
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From: Brent Welch 
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There is an "Update all scan caches" menu entry that rescans your
folders similar to the short scripts folks have shared around.  It
runs in the background.

>>>Rick Baartman said:
 > > > On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Rick Baartman wrote:
 > > Thanks Tom and Jacob. The above works, but without the double quotes: 
i.e.
      
 > > 
 > > sh -c 'for f in `folders -recurse -fast` ; do sortm +"$f" ; done'
 > > 
 > But there is a problem with making changes outside of exmh: the 
.xmhcache fi
     les 
 > don't get updated. This is dangerous; I have to remember to re-scan each 
fol
     der 
 > I enter. Is there a safeguard for this?
 > 
 > --
 > rick
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > _______________________________________________
 > Exmh-users mailing list
 > Exmh-users@redhat.com
 > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/exmh-users

--
Brent Welch
Software Architect, Panasas Inc
Pioneering the World's Most Scalable and Agile Storage Network
www.panasas.com
welch@panasas.com




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On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 09:27:12 PDT, J C Lawrence writes:
>I run exmh on my desktops at home and at work with the resulting
>exmh windows being displayed on both my work and home desktops (gratis
>SSH X11 forwarding).  In fact, your message was read and replied to
>(this message) while at work, using an exmh instance running on my home
>machine.

So you have 4 copies (1+1 per desktop) of exmh running?

That's what I usually do, but what I'd really like would be some 
 automagism to tell them "Flist", "Rescan Folder", which I now do 
 manually whenever I'm going to work at the "other" machine.

cheers,
&rw
-- 
-- In the first place, God made idiots;
-- though this was for practice only;
-- then he made users. (Mark Twain, modified)



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Thanks Brent: now it's clearer (to me) what's needed. I've used the global
sort and J C Lawrence's re-scan, but there is still a vulnerability there:
If I have an instance of exmh running, the folder I'm visiting will have
its new, correct .xmhcache overwritten with an incorrect one when I switch
folders. I can cron the sort and re-scan process, but I should kill running
exmh's first.

Best would be to have a button for "Global sort and update all scan caches"
in the exmh More... menu

--
rick

>>>>> "Brent" == Brent Welch 
>>>>> wrote the following on Tue, 10 Sep 2002 14:31:48 -0700

  Brent> There is an "Update all scan caches" menu entry that rescans your
  Brent> folders similar to the short scripts folks have shared around.  It
  Brent> runs in the background.





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On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 01:24:46 +0200 
Robert Waldner  wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 09:27:12 PDT, J C Lawrence writes:

>> I run exmh on my desktops at home and at work with the resulting exmh
>> windows being displayed on both my work and home desktops (gratis SSH
>> X11 forwarding).  In fact, your message was read and replied to (this
>> message) while at work, using an exmh instance running on my home
>> machine.

> So you have 4 copies (1+1 per desktop) of exmh running?

Yes.

One of the nicer aspects of exmh's colour handling is that while I have
the default background for the message pane set to black, the second
insance of exmh displaying to a given $DISPLAY will set the background
of the message pane to darkslategray.  Very nice as it provides an
instant visual cue as to which is which.  (No: I've not checked where it
gets that colour selection from).

> That's what I usually do, but what I'd really like would be some
> automagism to tell them "Flist", "Rescan Folder", which I now do
> manually whenever I'm going to work at the "other" machine.



-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw@kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1082.9739a457291bc5f545b370052a6da3c8.eml000066400000000000000000000107711444326627400307660ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Wed Sep 11 16:03:23 2002
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>> I run exmh on my desktops at home and at work with the resulting exmh
>> windows being displayed on both my work and home desktops (gratis SSH
>> X11 forwarding).  In fact, your message was read and replied to (this
>> message) while at work, using an exmh instance running on my home
>> machine.

Just to throw in another approach to solving the same problem. 

I run two copies of exmh, one at work, one at home.  They both
display on a "virtual X server" created by vncserver on the home
box.  I connect to that virtual X server using vncviewer wherever
I happen to be.  The VNC connection is tunneled over ssh and is
carried over the Internet via an IPSEC appliance.

That gives me access to both home and work email from either 
place without the complications involved in having two copies of 
exmh working on the same set of folders.

It's a tad slow viewing work email when I'm at work ... but not 
so bad that I can't stand it.

--Hal




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1083.cd4daaf03a683446a6c47fdc2c5eda7e.eml000066400000000000000000000114451444326627400315560ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-workers-admin@redhat.com  Wed Sep 11 20:26:51 2002
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X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5.9 07/25/2002 with nmh-1.0.4
To: Hacksaw 
Cc: exmh-workers@example.com
Subject: Re: exmh bug?
In-Reply-To: hacksaw's message of Tue, 10 Sep 2002 19:28:18 -0400.
    <200209102328.g8ANSIeP007847@habitrail.home.fools-errant.com>
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Hmm - I'm cc'ing the exmh-workers list, because I really don't know
much about the various PGP interfaces.  I think there has been some
talk about "issues" with the latest version of gpg.

>>>Hacksaw said:
 > version 2.5 08/15/2002
 > Linux habitrail.home.fools-errant.com 2.4.7-10smp #1 SMP Thu Sep 6 
17:09:31
 > EDT 2001 i686 unknown
 > Tk 8.3 Tcl 8.3
 > 
 > It's not clear to me this is a bug with exmh per se, but it's something 
that
      
 > manifests through exmh, so I figured asking you might help me track it 
down.
 > 
 > When I receive a gpg encrypted message, and it asks me for a passphrase, 
it
 > first tries to ask me via the tty under which exmh is running. It tells 
me m
     y 
 > passphrase is incorrect every time, at which point exmh offers me the 
line i
     n 
 > the message about decrypting. I click the line and it offers me the 
dialog
 > box, and tells me the passphrase is correct, and shows me the decrypted 
 > message.
 > 
 > Any ideas on that?
 > -- 
 > Honour necessity.
 > http://www.hacksaw.org -- http://www.privatecircus.com -- KB1FVD

--
Brent Welch
Software Architect, Panasas Inc
Pioneering the World's Most Scalable and Agile Storage Network
www.panasas.com
welch@panasas.com




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To: Hacksaw 
Cc: exmh-workers@example.com
Subject: Re: exmh bug?
Reply-To: Kevin.Christian@lsil.com
In-Reply-To: Your message of
    "Wed, 11 Sep 2002 12:17:33 PDT."
    <200209111917.PAA02912@blackcomb.panasas.com>
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The way to debug something like this is to turn on the log (Preferences 
-> Hacking Support -> Debug log enabled) and track the gpg commands 
being issued and the responses.

FWIW, using exmh 2.5 and gpg 1.0.7 I do not have problems sending 
encrypted messages to myself. When I select the message, an xterm 
window pops up asking for the passphrase. I don't recall exmh ever 
asking me for the passphrase from the tty that started exmh nor from a 
dialog box. (But then again, I'm not a heavy gpg user).

Kevin

In message <200209111917.PAA02912@blackcomb.panasas.com>, Brent Welch writes:
> Hmm - I'm cc'ing the exmh-workers list, because I really don't know
> much about the various PGP interfaces.  I think there has been some
> talk about "issues" with the latest version of gpg.
> 
> >>>Hacksaw said:
>  > version 2.5 08/15/2002
>  > Linux habitrail.home.fools-errant.com 2.4.7-10smp #1 SMP Thu Sep 6 17:09:31
>  > EDT 2001 i686 unknown
>  > Tk 8.3 Tcl 8.3
>  > 
>  > It's not clear to me this is a bug with exmh per se, but it's something 
>  > that manifests through exmh, so I figured asking you might help me track
>  > it down.
>  > 
>  > When I receive a gpg encrypted message, and it asks me for a passphrase, 
>  > it first tries to ask me via the tty under which exmh is running. It 
>  > tells me my passphrase is incorrect every time, at which point exmh 
>  > offers me the line in the message about decrypting. I click the line 
>  > and it offers me the dialog box, and tells me the passphrase is correct,
>  > and shows me the decrypted message.
>  > 
>  > Any ideas on that?







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Cc: Hacksaw , exmh-workers@example.com
Subject: Re: exmh bug?
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--==_Exmh_9304186P
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 12:17:33 PDT, Brent Welch said:

> >>>Hacksaw said:

>  > When I receive a gpg encrypted message, and it asks me for a passphrase, 
> it
>  > first tries to ask me via the tty under which exmh is running. It tells 
>
Hmm.. I've seen the *opposite* issue - if I go to *SEND* a signed message,
sometimes Exmh will put up the dialog box, but fail to set keyboard focus
there, so no passphrase can be entered.  Of course, hitting 'return' doesnt
work so you need to click the 'OK' box, at which point it finds that the
passphrase that wasn't entered doesn't work, and asks again, this time with
proper focus set.

I suspect some variable/codepath is getting hosed for the focus, or possibly
some borkedness with --no-tty and/or --status-fd flags to gnupg.

/Valdis

--==_Exmh_9304186P
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001

iD8DBQE9f575cC3lWbTT17ARApK5AKD+PToDpgdcd0Ore2BwJ1qVakfMDgCcDRsa
HqcPiRZRSxFvAQBe+Ma1qmY=
=lXe4
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--==_Exmh_9304186P--



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1086.b51953361efc50df363334b72a566863.eml000066400000000000000000000120401444326627400307010ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-workers-admin@redhat.com  Wed Sep 11 21:29:20 2002
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X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4
Cc: Hacksaw , exmh-workers@example.com
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Gotta wonder what the GPG config stuff in ~/.exmh/exmh-defaults looks 
like.  Also gotta wonder what the message headers in the offending 
message are saying to nmh/exmh.  My set-up works perfectly.  That is, 
I get a pop-up window to enter my passphrase into, and when I type it 
correctly, the message display changes from a prompt to click to 
decrypt to the message content.

TTFN....

On 11 September 2002 at 12:17, Brent Welch  wrote:

Hmm - I'm cc'ing the exmh-workers list, because I really don't know
much about the various PGP interfaces.  I think there has been some
talk about "issues" with the latest version of gpg.

>>>Hacksaw said:
 > version 2.5 08/15/2002
 > Linux habitrail.home.fools-errant.com 2.4.7-10smp #1 SMP Thu Sep 6 17:09:31
 > EDT 2001 i686 unknown
 > Tk 8.3 Tcl 8.3
 > 
 > It's not clear to me this is a bug with exmh per se, but it's
 > something that manifests through exmh, so I figured asking you
 > might help me track it down.
 >
 > When I receive a gpg encrypted message, and it asks me for a
 > passphrase, it first tries to ask me via the tty under which
 > exmh is running. It tells me my passphrase is incorrect every
 > time, at which point exmh offers me the line in the message
 > about decrypting. I click the line and it offers me the dialog
 > box, and tells me the passphrase is correct, and shows me the
 > decrypted message.
 > 
 > Any ideas on that?
 > -- 
 > Honour necessity.
 > http://www.hacksaw.org -- http://www.privatecircus.com -- KB1FVD





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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1087.512badc5c555eb050c83ceb7faef9b61.eml000066400000000000000000000127411444326627400314760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-workers-admin@redhat.com  Wed Sep 11 21:52:08 2002
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To: Hacksaw 
Cc: exmh-workers@example.com
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Here's a message that works fine for me:



X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4
To: kevinc@doink.com
Subject: gpg test
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/x-pgp; format=mime; x-action=encrypt;
	x-recipients="D165C0CC, D165C0CC"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:18:58 -0700
From: Kevin Cosgrove 
Message-Id: <20020911201900.492892FEAB@joseph.doink.com>
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL version=2.11

-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Exmh version 2.5 10/15/1999

blah, blah, blah

-----END PGP MESSAGE-----





It could be that your content type of text/plain is messing you up.
Your config stuff looks substantially the same as mine.

Cheers....







On 11 September 2002 at 16:11, Hacksaw  wrote:

You may assume the X's were originally a valid address.

X-em-version: 5, 0, 0, 4
X-em-registration: #01E0520310450300B900
X-priority: 3
X-mailer: My Own Email v4.00
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Discussion
From: "XXXXXXX" 
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 05:47:46 -0500 (06:47 EDT)
To: hacksaw@hacksaw.org


*gpgRfc822:     0
*gpgChooseKey:  1
*gpgRunTwice:   1
*gpgCacheIds:   persistent
*gpgMinMatch:   75
*gpgShowInline: none
*gpgShortMessages:      1
*gpgAutoExtract:        1
*gpgKeyServer:  pgp-public-keys@keys.pgp.net
*gpgKeyQueryMethod:     hkp
*gpgHKPKeyServerUrl:    keys.pgp.com
*gpgKeyServerURL:       http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/htbin/pks-extract-key.pl?op
=get&search=0x%s
*gpgKeyOtherMethod:     exec echo "can't find $id" > $tmp
*gpgComment:    Exmh version 2.5 08/15/2002
*gpgModulePath: /usr/lib/gnupg
*gpgCipherMods: skipjack idea
*gpgDigestMods: tiger
*gpgPubkeyMods: rsa
*gpgPgp5Compatibility:  1
*gpgCipherAlgo: 3des
*gpgDigestAlgo: sha1
*gpgCompressAlgo:       zip





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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1088.3386ac349cead5b5be4f4fad8ed998c1.eml000066400000000000000000000073611444326627400315310ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Thu Sep 12 14:01:41 2002
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From: George Michaelson 
To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: bad focus/click behaviours
In-Reply-To: Your message of
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I am a (tv)twm user. when I snarf text into my mouse cut buffer, and then
attempt to inject it into the exmh input windows for comp/repl, the 'point'
is often an apparently random place in the text pane, not where I think I
have current flashing cursor. 

I usually wipe out any of To:/Subject:/ with the text. Its
often not even beginning of line denoted, ie its an unexplicable number
of char spaces in to the text where it inserts, 

What am I doing wrong in either X, WM, shell, EXMH which is causing this?

cheers
	-George



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1089.8c0c02d20cf78372808b29860b4e406a.eml000066400000000000000000000111061444326627400307550ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Thu Sep 12 14:01:43 2002
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X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5.9 07/25/2002 with nmh-1.0.4
To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Re: bad focus/click behaviours
In-Reply-To: <17705.1031833169@garlic.apnic.net>
References: <17705.1031833169@garlic.apnic.net>
Comments: In-reply-to George Michaelson  message dated
    "Thu, 12 Sep 2002 12:19:29 -0000."
From: Brent Welch 
X-Url: http://www.panasas.com/
X-Face: "HxE|?EnC9fVMV8f70H83&{fgLE.|FZ^$>@Q(yb#N,Eh~N]e&]=>
    r5~UnRml1:4EglY{9B+ :'wJq$@c_C!l8@<$t,{YUr4K,QJGHSvS~U]H`<+L*x?eGzSk>XH\W:AK\j?@?c1o
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exmh has a funky cut/paste model that is essentially all my fault.
The middle click sets the insert point.  If you hate that, go to the
Bindings... Simple Edit preferences window and de-select
"Paste Sets Insert".  

>>>George Michaelson said:
 > 
 > I am a (tv)twm user. when I snarf text into my mouse cut buffer, and then
 > attempt to inject it into the exmh input windows for comp/repl, the 
'point'
 > is often an apparently random place in the text pane, not where I think I
 > have current flashing cursor. 
 > 
 > I usually wipe out any of To:/Subject:/ with the text. Its
 > often not even beginning of line denoted, ie its an unexplicable number
 > of char spaces in to the text where it inserts, 
 > 
 > What am I doing wrong in either X, WM, shell, EXMH which is causing this?

--
Brent Welch
Software Architect, Panasas Inc
Pioneering the World's Most Scalable and Agile Storage Network
www.panasas.com
welch@panasas.com




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1090.9fda543ea022ae10968dd56d2c710b9d.eml000066400000000000000000000106631444326627400312540ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Thu Sep 12 21:21:23 2002
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From: Robert Elz 
To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Re: bad focus/click behaviours
In-Reply-To: <200209120315.XAA25189@blackcomb.panasas.com>
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    Date:        Wed, 11 Sep 2002 20:15:00 -0700
    From:        Brent Welch 
    Message-ID:  <200209120315.XAA25189@blackcomb.panasas.com>

  | exmh has a funky cut/paste model that is essentially all my fault.
  | The middle click sets the insert point.  If you hate that, go to the
  | Bindings... Simple Edit preferences window and de-select
  | "Paste Sets Insert".  

Unfortunately, the side effect of that solution is that it is no longer
possible to cut/paste within one sedit window, some intermediate client
always must be used (except in the rare case where you want to select
some text, and then paste it at the same place).

That's because the click that you have to (with this option) make to set
the insert point, also kills the selection (it ends up reverting to the
last selection made in some other window, or something like that).

So, the vast majority of people probably want that "Paste Sets Insert"
enabled - that one you can learn to live with, the other is much more
painful.

kre



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On Fri Sep 13 2002 at 02:03, Robert Elz wrote:

>     Date:        Wed, 11 Sep 2002 20:15:00 -0700
>     From:        Brent Welch 

>   | exmh has a funky cut/paste model that is essentially all my fault.
>   | The middle click sets the insert point.  If you hate that, go to the
>   | Bindings... Simple Edit preferences window and de-select
>   | "Paste Sets Insert".
> 
> Unfortunately, the side effect of that solution is that it is no longer
> possible to cut/paste within one sedit window, some intermediate client
> always must be used (except in the rare case where you want to select
> some text, and then paste it at the same place).

> So, the vast majority of people probably want that "Paste Sets Insert"
> enabled - that one you can learn to live with, the other is much more
> painful.

For a long time I have used an external editor with exmh (gvim).

I can cut'n'paste from exmh's message display window into spawned
gvim processes, but not into anything else.

This is VERY annoying.

  (I have to look at the message with cat or less or whatever in a
  terminal window if I want to do this - which is quite often.  And
  if the message is q-p encoded or a non-text/plain mime type, I end
  up with all that raw garbage too).

Anyway to fix this?

(BTW: standard i386 redhat7.3)

Thanks.

> kre

Cheers
Tony



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    Sep 10 12:52:16 2002
Subject: Linking message [was: Re: Patch to complete a change...]
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On Tue Sep 10 2002 at 12:52, Robert Elz wrote:

> Subject: Patch to complete a change...

> I guess that most of us don't use "link" very often ... I noticed it
> last week, but only got time to look and see why today.

I would like to use [Link] a lot more, but is it rather
inconvenient.

I have set my right mouse button to [Move] a message to another
folder, which works fine.

However, [Link] also uses the same destination folder as [Move], and
so if I want to use [Link] I first have to mark the destination
folder with a message-move, undo the move, then I can use the
[Link].  Very inconvenient.

Is there a better way for me to set this up so that [Link] works
with one or two simple clicks?

(In essence: is there a way to mark a destination folder for a
message link or move without actually doing a move or link, I
couldn't see anything obvious).

Cheers
Tony



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>>>>> On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, "Tony" == Tony Nugent wrote:

  Tony> (In essence: is there a way to mark a destination folder
  Tony> for a message link or move without actually doing a move
  Tony> or link, I couldn't see anything obvious).

1) Right click on the folder label in the folder list

2) In the main window, the "+" key puts you into a "change 
   folder" mode (the first time you use it after starting exmh),
   hit a second + and you go to "set a target" mode.  Type a few
   characters of the folder name and hit space for autocomplete.

--Hal

How's spring shaping up "down under"?



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    Date:        Thu, 12 Sep 2002 23:26:33 -0500
    From:        Hal DeVore 
    Message-ID:  <23204.1031891193@dimebox>

  | 1) Right click on the folder label in the folder list

That (the way I have it configured, and it sounds as if the way Tony does
too) just does a move (rather than select as target without moving).

Of course, if you can manage to get no messages currently selected, then
it works fine.

  | 2) In the main window, the "+" key puts you into a "change 
  |    folder" mode (the first time you use it after starting exmh),
  |    hit a second + and you go to "set a target" mode.  Type a few
  |    characters of the folder name and hit space for autocomplete.

This works, but is not nice if you're not using the keyboard, but just
the mouse.

Tony: I agree - a nice way to link in one click would be good, and should
be easy to add, though currently adding mouse bindings (something like
shift right click would be a good choice) is much harder than adding
key bindings.

But note there's no need to "undo" - the way I generally use link, if
the desired destination folder isn't the current selected target, is
to right click on the target, which selects it and moves the message,
(and because I have the "automatic move to the next message on move or
link option set) select the message again, and then "Link".

Exmh only permits one uncomitted action to be selected for a message at a
time, that is, one of delete, move, or link.   Selecting any of those
implicitly undoes any previous choice from the three (so you cannot
achieve a "move" by doing a link, then delete, then commit, it needs to
be link, commit, delete, commit).  (xmh was just the same there incidentally).

  | How's spring shaping up "down under"?

No meaningful comment from me, I'm not there at the minute.   But I'm told
that where I'm from it is cold, wet, and miserable, though has been better
during the day (sunny days, cold nights) for the past few.    In any case,
all of that is a good enough reason to stay away...

kre



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From: Robert Elz 
To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Re: bad focus/click behaviours
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    Date:        Fri, 13 Sep 2002 11:26:30 +1000
    From:        Tony Nugent 
    Message-ID:  <200209130126.g8D1QUf21470@hobbit.linuxworks.com.au.nospam>

  | I can cut'n'paste from exmh's message display window into spawned
  | gvim processes, but not into anything else.

That's odd.  I cut & paste between all kinds of windows (exmh into
mozilla, xterm, another wish script of mine I use for DNS tasks (but
that one I guess is to be expected) netscape (when I used to use it,
but I suppose it and mozilla are the same codebase, approx) - in fact
I can't thing of anything it fails for, that I have noticed.

What is an example of an "anything else" that it fails for for you?

kre



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On Fri Sep 13 2002 at 17:55, Robert Elz wrote:

>     Date:        Fri, 13 Sep 2002 11:26:30 +1000
>     From:        Tony Nugent 

>   | I can cut'n'paste from exmh's message display window into spawned
>   | gvim processes, but not into anything else.
> 
> That's odd.  I cut & paste between all kinds of windows (exmh into

Not so odd, this issue came up several weeks ago (with no real
resolution).

> mozilla, xterm, another wish script of mine I use for DNS tasks (but
> that one I guess is to be expected) netscape (when I used to use it,
> but I suppose it and mozilla are the same codebase, approx) - in fact
> I can't thing of anything it fails for, that I have noticed.
> 
> What is an example of an "anything else" that it fails for for you?

Everything else :)  I can't even mark text in an exmh message window
and then paste it into a terminal window, the cut buffer seems to be
completely empty (and its previous contents are no longer there
either).

> kre

  BTW: talking of spring downunder... I'm in Queensland.  It almost
  feels like early summer already (winters here are dry and warm,
  much better than cold wet miserable Melbourne :-)  Despite some
  recent rain (first in months), we are already into a drought, with
  an El-Nino on the way it is only going to get worse...  (the last
  one in the 90s caused one of the worst droughts ever seen here in
  aussie).

Cheers
Tony



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1097.8c06e645fdaab234454bf0b72217700d.eml000066400000000000000000000103401444326627400311010ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Fri Sep 13 13:36:16 2002
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To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Re: Linking message [was: Re: Patch to complete a change...]
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2) In the main window, the "+" key puts you into a "change 
   folder" mode (the first time you use it after starting exmh),
   hit a second + and you go to "set a target" mode.  Type a few
   characters of the folder name and hit space for autocomplete.

I should have finished this off.

3) Keep hitting space to loop thru all the folders that match 
   the characters you typed.  Hit return to actually select the
   folder shown in the message area.

I don't use this for navigating into nested folders as the only 
thing I have nested is my archives.  Someone else will have to 
tell you how to do that if there are any tricks to it.

--Hal




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>>>>> On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, "Robert" == Robert Elz wrote:

  Robert> That (the way I have it configured, and it sounds as if
  Robert> the way Tony does too) just does a move (rather than
  Robert> select as target without moving).

Ah.  I had forgotten that was settable.  

Preferences, Folder Display, "Action when Target Button
clicked..." set to "Select only" will change it.  I seem to
recall that the button that is used as "Target button" is
configurable but I haven't had enough caffeine to recall where
that is.

--Hal




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1099.dc3a681609f628b202e6c832d16c0d4a.eml000066400000000000000000000111041444326627400311100ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Fri Sep 13 16:50:01 2002
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>>>>> On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, "Tony" == Tony Nugent wrote:

  Tony> I can't even mark text in an exmh message window and then
  Tony> paste it into a terminal window, the cut buffer seems to
  Tony> be completely empty (and its previous contents are no
  Tony> longer there either).

Brent confessed recently that he had tried to subvert the X
model(s) of copy and paste.  Not in those words... but that
was how I read it. ;)

I have a lot of trouble copying and pasting from or to exmh 
across a VNC link (from things in the vncviewer to things not in 
it and vice versa).  As long as I stick to apps being "normally" 
displayed on my X server I don't have much of a problem.

My recollection from my X programming days is that the X model,
like everything in X, is more complex than the human brain can
handle.  It also is very different from the MS-Windows model.
And I get the feeling that Tk tries to "unify" those two models
and fails.  Not sure what the exmh-specific contribution to the 
confusion is, frankly.

--Hal




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1100.2a253a3a1ec54d9c7d452ea00834bcad.eml000066400000000000000000000126721444326627400313040ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Fri Sep 13 16:50:06 2002
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To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Re: bad focus/click behaviours
In-Reply-To: Your message of
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    <200209131130.g8DBUZL24217@hobbit.linuxworks.com.au.nospam>
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> From: Tony Nugent 
> Sender: exmh-users-admin@example.com
> Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 21:30:34 +1000
> 
> On Fri Sep 13 2002 at 17:55, Robert Elz wrote:
> 
> >     Date:        Fri, 13 Sep 2002 11:26:30 +1000
> >     From:        Tony Nugent 
> 
> >   | I can cut'n'paste from exmh's message display window into spawned
> >   | gvim processes, but not into anything else.
> > 
> > That's odd.  I cut & paste between all kinds of windows (exmh into
> 
> Not so odd, this issue came up several weeks ago (with no real
> resolution).
> 
> > mozilla, xterm, another wish script of mine I use for DNS tasks (but
> > that one I guess is to be expected) netscape (when I used to use it,
> > but I suppose it and mozilla are the same codebase, approx) - in fact
> > I can't thing of anything it fails for, that I have noticed.
> > 
> > What is an example of an "anything else" that it fails for for you?
> 
> Everything else :)  I can't even mark text in an exmh message window
> and then paste it into a terminal window, the cut buffer seems to be
> completely empty (and its previous contents are no longer there
> either).
> 
> > kre
> 
>   BTW: talking of spring downunder... I'm in Queensland.  It almost
>   feels like early summer already (winters here are dry and warm,
>   much better than cold wet miserable Melbourne :-)  Despite some
>   recent rain (first in months), we are already into a drought, with
>   an El-Nino on the way it is only going to get worse...  (the last
>   one in the 90s caused one of the worst droughts ever seen here in
>   aussie).

(This is all guess work and may be bogus.)

Are you running Gnome 1.4? I had similar problems as did several
co-workers. Updating my Gnome components has fixed it for me and
others, although I can't say exactly which component did the
trick. Gnomecore or gtk would seem most likely, but it may have been
something else.

In any case, I have not seen the problem for quite a while, now.

R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer
Energy Sciences Network (ESnet)
Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab)
E-mail: oberman@es.net			Phone: +1 510 486-8634



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To: exmh-users@example.com
Cc: Tony Nugent 
Subject: Re: Linking message [was: Re: Patch to complete a change...]
In-Reply-To: Your message of
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In message <200209130231.g8D2VO021580@hobbit.linuxworks.com.au.nospam>, Tony Nu
gent writes:
> 
> I have set my right mouse button to [Move] a message to another
> folder, which works fine.
> 
> However, [Link] also uses the same destination folder as [Move], and
> so if I want to use [Link] I first have to mark the destination
> folder with a message-move, undo the move, then I can use the
> [Link].  Very inconvenient.
> 
> Is there a better way for me to set this up so that [Link] works
> with one or two simple clicks?
> 

According to some old documentation (man exmh-ref)

     The mouse bindings for the folders labels are:

          Left - Change to folder.
          Middle - View nested folders.
          Right - Refile current messages to the folder.
          Shift-Right - Link current messages to the folder.
          Shift-Middle - Drag a folder label to some drop target.
          Control-Right - Clear the current target folder.

It should be possible to link using shift-right-click the same way you 
can move using only right-click.

Kevin




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1102.25a9175170413ba941d49db2e99ebd0c.eml000066400000000000000000000116721444326627400311110ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Fri Sep 13 18:40:35 2002
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To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Re: bad focus/click behaviours
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References: <200209131130.g8DBUZL24217@hobbit.linuxworks.com.au.nospam>
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I've never understood the mouse buffer operation with exmh either. Here's the 
behaviour I have. I have exmh and XEmacs windows up, and a terminal window. (I 
also have gnome1.4 running and enlightenment as wm.) I select text in the exmh 
window and while it is highlighted, I can paste into anything else. If I select 
it and then click so the highlighting is off, then what I paste is not the 
recently-selected text in exmh, but an old selection. If I select in XEmacs and 
leave it highlighted, I can paste it into exmh sedit window; but if it is no 
longer highlighted, what I paste is an old selection. I can live with this 
behaviour except for one additional thing. If nothing is highlighted, then what 
I paste into exmh is different from what I paste into other windows. To be more 
specific, here's what gets pasted if nothing is highlighted:

Application       What gets pasted

XEmacs            whatever was last selected unless it was last selected in exmh
xterm             same as XEmacs
AbiWord           nothing
Nedit             nothing
sedit             Whatever was last highlighted in sedit and overwritten

The last needs some amplification. If I highlight something in sedit, then 
obviously that's what gets pasted. If the highlighting is off, then what gets 
pasted is NOT what was last highlighted in sedit, but what was last highlighted 
and typed over (I have "Type Kills SEL" on.).

It seems that exmh and sedit are the oddballs here. Very often when I try to 
paste something in sedit I end up muttering WTF??

--
rick



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Subject: Automated forwarding
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Hi Folks,

I've been trying to set a button called which automatically
forwards mail using a '-form mycomps' without going through
the editor, but so far haven't got the right recipe.

I currently have in my .exmh-defaults:

*Mops.spam.text:        Spam
*Mops.spam.command:     Msg_Forward -form spamcomps -noedit -nowhatnowproc ; Msg
_Remove


I've also tried with "SeditSend {$draft $t 0}" after the forward command.
It should forward to a spam address (where filters get adjusted) and then
delete.  It does so, but not without producing the edit window.

Any help appreciated.

Wendy Roberts



===========================================
Wendy Roberts          
HEAD System Administrator                             
High Energy Astrophsics Division
Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics
Cambridge, MA USA 02138
wendy@cfa.harvard.edu  
Phone:  617-495-7153  
===========================================



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    Sep 13 07:46:47 2002
Subject: Re: bad focus/click behaviours
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On Fri Sep 13 2002 at 07:46, "Kevin Oberman" wrote:

> > > What is an example of an "anything else" that it fails for for you?
> >
> > Everything else :)  I can't even mark text in an exmh message window
> > and then paste it into a terminal window, the cut buffer seems to be
> > completely empty (and its previous contents are no longer there
> > either).

> (This is all guess work and may be bogus.)
> 
> Are you running Gnome 1.4? I had similar problems as did several
> co-workers. Updating my Gnome components has fixed it for me and
> others, although I can't say exactly which component did the
> trick. Gnomecore or gtk would seem most likely, but it may have been
> something else.

Indeed I am (this workstation is rh7.2 with gnome1.4, it [mostly?]
works, so I hadn't bothered to updated it to 7.3:)

> In any case, I have not seen the problem for quite a while, now.

So upgrading gnome will fix the problem, it's not an exmh/tktcl
issue.

> R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer

Thanks.

Cheers
Tony



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1105.6f46ad31778d293c889baaefab4db271.eml000066400000000000000000000122151444326627400313420ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Sat Sep 14 16:22:57 2002
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From: Jacob Morzinski 
To: 
Subject: Re: bad focus/click behaviours
In-Reply-To: <200209132022.g8DKMps00640@ms417l.math.okstate.edu>
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On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Dale Alspach wrote:
> My experience has been that if the item is showing in xclipboard
> and is highlighted that is what is pasted using the mouse.

Classic X copy-and-paste behavior is that you can only paste what is
currently highlighted.  In fact, it is the act of highlighting a
selection that actually copies that selection into the buffer.  X has
no "copy" command -- if you highlighted it, you just copied it.

> This does not seem to override what is in an application's own
> paste buffer. As far as I can tell Maple's cut and paste, for
> example, is isolated.

If ab application has a "copy" command that you can choose to use
separately from the process of highlighting something, that command
is something the application authors wrote on their own.  (And it it
likely that an application that wrote an internal "copy" command would
also have their own customized "paste" command, to make sure the two
work together.)  Whether the internal (custom) select and paste
functions interoperate with the X server's global select and paste
functions will vary from program to program, because in each case you
are relying on the program's authors' efforts to blend separate systems.


 Jacob Morzinski                                jmorzins@mit.edu



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1106.e8f11a2a435c86f57edaf08a726bb72a.eml000066400000000000000000000120571444326627400313340ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Sat Sep 14 16:22:59 2002
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>>>>> On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, "Wendy" == Wendy P. Roberts wrote:

  Wendy> I've been trying to set a button called which
  Wendy> automatically forwards mail using a '-form mycomps'
  Wendy> without going through the editor, but so far haven't got
  Wendy> the right recipe.

I have one that uses dist to send stuff from my work mail to my 
home mail.  The binding looks like this:

set {bindings(key,HD_Dist_Silently -form distcomps.to-me)} 

The "HD_Dist_Silently" is a hacked up version of the proc that 
does dist in exmh and is pasted in below.  It's getting old and 
probably should be "resynced" with the current code.  But it 
still works (on a relatively recent CVS copy of exmh)

It's also possible that there's an easier way but I hacked this 
together quickly a year or more ago and when it worked I moved 
on to other tasks.

--Hal

proc HD_Dist_Silently { args } {

    global exmh msg
    set exmh(ctype) {dist}
    if {[string length $args] == 0} {
	set args Mh_DistSetup
    }

    if [MsgOk $msg(id) m] {
	if {[string compare [info command $args] $args] == 0} {
	    # Old interface with hook procedure
	    if [catch {$args $exmh(folder) $m} err] {   ;# Setup draft msg
		Exmh_Status "${args}: $err" purple
		return
	    }
	}  else {
	    if [catch {
		Exmh_Status "dist +$exmh(folder) $m"
		eval {MhExec dist +$exmh(folder) $m} -nowhatnowproc $args
		MhAnnoSetup $exmh(folder) $m dist
	    } err] {
		Exmh_Status "dist: $err" purple
		return
	    }
	}
        Edit_Done send				;# Just send it
    }
}




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1107.7f3b20213d2397c966dfc7defebee2e7.eml000066400000000000000000000117151444326627400314340ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Mon Sep 16 10:41:55 2002
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To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Re: bad focus/click behaviours
In-Reply-To: Your message of
    "Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:20:58 +1000."
    <200209140320.g8E3Kww29126@hobbit.linuxworks.com.au.nospam>
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> From: Tony Nugent 
> Sender: exmh-users-admin@example.com
> Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 13:20:58 +1000
> 
> On Fri Sep 13 2002 at 07:46, "Kevin Oberman" wrote:
> 
> > > > What is an example of an "anything else" that it fails for for you?
> > >
> > > Everything else :)  I can't even mark text in an exmh message window
> > > and then paste it into a terminal window, the cut buffer seems to be
> > > completely empty (and its previous contents are no longer there
> > > either).
> 
> > (This is all guess work and may be bogus.)
> > 
> > Are you running Gnome 1.4? I had similar problems as did several
> > co-workers. Updating my Gnome components has fixed it for me and
> > others, although I can't say exactly which component did the
> > trick. Gnomecore or gtk would seem most likely, but it may have been
> > something else.
> 
> Indeed I am (this workstation is rh7.2 with gnome1.4, it [mostly?]
> works, so I hadn't bothered to updated it to 7.3:)
> 
> > In any case, I have not seen the problem for quite a while, now.
> 
> So upgrading gnome will fix the problem, it's not an exmh/tktcl
> issue.

It did for me, but I am not willing to say it is not a tcl/tk issue as
other apps seemed to work OK for cut and paste and Tk does its
clipboard stuff a bit differently than most toolkits. So I'm not
about to place blame. Just reporting my experience.

Also, I am not talking about installing Gnome2. Just updating the
many, many pieces of gnome to the current rev level.

R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer
Energy Sciences Network (ESnet)
Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab)
E-mail: oberman@es.net			Phone: +1 510 486-8634



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To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: MyIncErrors
From: "Karl Hoppel" 
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I recently transfered my exmh setup to a new system, and now
all my email ends up in Mail/MyIncErrors folder.  This is true for 
inbox or presort options.  I'm having difficulty finding this condition
in the documention.  Suggestions?

Cheers,
Karl



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To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: (PGP problem) EXMH hangs during 'Query keyserver'
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From: Reg Clemens 
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I guess the first question here should be does anyone have some
updates to the PGP code in EXMH that I should know about?

My current problem is that if I get a PGP signed message, I first
get a button that reads:
	"Check the signature with GnuPG"
If I punch the button, and I dont have the signature on my keyring
then I get a message saying just that, and the message:
	"Can't check signature: public key not found"
along with a button with the inscription
	"Query keyserver"
If I punch the button then EXMH just hangs.  Forever.

If instead of punching the button, I go out to the keyserver myself
and then try the message again, everything works, so it SEEMS that it
must be the code that goes out to the keyserver.

Anyone else with this problem?
This is EXMH v2.5 and tcl/tk 8.4a4
-- 
                                        Reg.Clemens
                                        reg@dwf.com




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From: Tony Nugent 
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Subject: customising FTOC display for specific folders...
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Is there any way to customise the folder table of contents for
specific folders?

I know it is possible to do per-folder customisation with components
and replcomps for message templates, but what about -form format
files for scan?

Cheers
Tony



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1111.682637cab441c4614d42314d8c82c2c6.eml000066400000000000000000000116631444326627400307460ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Fri Sep 20 21:45:36 2002
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Subject: I'm back in town...
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--==_Exmh_1920300774P
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I've been working on salary related things the past few days, but I'm starting 
to think about exmh again.

Thanks to Robert for finding that s/$L/$lineno/ bug.

So, has anybody else been looking at the performance issues that we were 
talking about before I left, or should I dig right in?

Chris

-- 
Chris Garrigues                 http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/
virCIO                          http://www.virCIO.Com
716 Congress, Suite 200
Austin, TX  78701		+1 512 374 0500

  World War III:  The Wrong-Doers Vs. the Evil-Doers.




--==_Exmh_1920300774P
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Exmh version 2.2_20000822 06/23/2000

iD8DBQE9i297K9b4h5R0IUIRAiURAJ9aNU4uwQn+EwNOJlrvGJp9U4wVNQCcCkmT
KgDY1o8a2qpBe53DfoNyX9g=
=LClg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--==_Exmh_1920300774P--



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X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5_20020922 (09/22/02) with nmh-1.0.4
From: Scott Lipcon 
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Subject: traceback in new exmh
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I just updated to the latest CVS - I had been running a build from June.  
Hitting the Flist button gives the following traceback:

syntax error in expression "int(17+1+(222-)*(19-17-2)/(224-))"
    while executing
"expr int($minLine+1+($msgid-$minMsg)*($maxLine-$minLine-2)/($maxMsg-$minMsg))"
    (procedure "Ftoc_FindMsg" line 57)
    invoked from within
"Ftoc_FindMsg $i"
    (procedure "Ftoc_ShowSequences" line 16)
    invoked from within
"Ftoc_ShowSequences $F"
    (procedure "ScanFolder" line 81)
    invoked from within
"ScanFolder inbox 0"
    invoked from within
"time [list ScanFolder $F $adjustDisplay"
    (procedure "Scan_Folder" line 2)
    invoked from within
"Scan_Folder $exmh(folder) $ftoc(showNew)"
    (procedure "Inc_PresortFinish" line 7)
    invoked from within
"Inc_PresortFinish"
    invoked from within
".fops.flist invoke"
    ("uplevel" body line 1)
    invoked from within
"uplevel #0 [list $w invoke]"
    (procedure "tkButtonUp" line 7)
    invoked from within
"tkButtonUp .fops.flist
"
    (command bound to event)


It seems to only happen in a folder with no unseen messages.

Chris, is this related to your recent changes?

Scott



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1113.13231f60c358f003d7a4ee9c678bcf66.eml000066400000000000000000000143671444326627400311260ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Mon Sep 23 12:06:18 2002
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To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Re: Linking message [was: Re: Patch to complete a change...]
In-Reply-To: <26040.1031911795@munnari.OZ.AU>
References: <23204.1031891193@dimebox>
    <200209130231.g8D2VO021580@hobbit.linuxworks.com.au.nospam>
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Comments: In-reply-to Robert Elz  message dated "Fri,
    13 Sep 2002 17:09:55 +0700."
From: Brent Welch 
X-Url: http://www.panasas.com/
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Both Move and Link are one-click actions.

 on a folder label Move's the current message
 on a folder label Link's the current message

>>>Robert Elz said:
 >     Date:        Thu, 12 Sep 2002 23:26:33 -0500
 >     From:        Hal DeVore 
 >     Message-ID:  <23204.1031891193@dimebox>
 > 
 >   | 1) Right click on the folder label in the folder list
 > 
 > That (the way I have it configured, and it sounds as if the way Tony does
 > too) just does a move (rather than select as target without moving).
 > 
 > Of course, if you can manage to get no messages currently selected, then
 > it works fine.
 > 
 >   | 2) In the main window, the "+" key puts you into a "change 
 >   |    folder" mode (the first time you use it after starting exmh),
 >   |    hit a second + and you go to "set a target" mode.  Type a few
 >   |    characters of the folder name and hit space for autocomplete.
 > 
 > This works, but is not nice if you're not using the keyboard, but just
 > the mouse.
 > 
 > Tony: I agree - a nice way to link in one click would be good, and should
 > be easy to add, though currently adding mouse bindings (something like
 > shift right click would be a good choice) is much harder than adding
 > key bindings.
 > 
 > But note there's no need to "undo" - the way I generally use link, if
 > the desired destination folder isn't the current selected target, is
 > to right click on the target, which selects it and moves the message,
 > (and because I have the "automatic move to the next message on move or
 > link option set) select the message again, and then "Link".
 > 
 > Exmh only permits one uncomitted action to be selected for a message at a
 > time, that is, one of delete, move, or link.   Selecting any of those
 > implicitly undoes any previous choice from the three (so you cannot
 > achieve a "move" by doing a link, then delete, then commit, it needs to
 > be link, commit, delete, commit).  (xmh was just the same there incidentally
     ).
 > 
 >   | How's spring shaping up "down under"?
 > 
 > No meaningful comment from me, I'm not there at the minute.   But I'm told
 > that where I'm from it is cold, wet, and miserable, though has been better
 > during the day (sunny days, cold nights) for the past few.    In any case,
 > all of that is a good enough reason to stay away...
 > 
 > kre
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > _______________________________________________
 > Exmh-users mailing list
 > Exmh-users@redhat.com
 > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/exmh-users

--
Brent Welch
Software Architect, Panasas Inc
Pioneering the World's Most Scalable and Agile Storage Network
www.panasas.com
welch@panasas.com



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From: Torsten Bronger 
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Subject: "requires:" and relational operators
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Halloechen!

I have

Requires: saxon >= 6.5.1
Conflicts: saxon >= 7

in my spec file.  But apparently rpm ignores all version numbers. So,

Requires: saxon >= 6.5.1
# Conflicts: saxon >= 7

would install even with saxon-3.0.0, and

# Requires: saxon >= 6.5.1
Conflicts: saxon >= 7

wouldn't install even with saxon-6.5.2.  What could be the reason
for this?

Tschoe,
Torsten.

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Halloechen!

On Dienstag, 27. August 2002 05:41 schrieben Sie:
> [Question about require tag]

Oops, sorry.  Now I found out that there is a noewsgroup ...
:-)

Tschoe,
Torsten.

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1116.e30f22bbdea56cb1ba244a559564ddde.eml000066400000000000000000000077071444326627400314670ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Thu Aug 29 10:57:58 2002
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Subject: Re: ALSA (almost) made easy
From: Ville =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Skytt=E4?= 
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> The devices are there now, thank Gordon for reporting the problem (and as I
> said, you were the only one). Any further comments are very welcome!
> 
> Download : http://ftp.freshrpms.net/pub/freshrpms/testing/alsa/
> New spec : http://freshrpms.net/builds/alsa-driver/alsa-driver.spec

Ahh, wonderful!  Just tried out these and *finally* got sound working
with my Abit TH7II-RAID's integrated audio.  I've been pulling hair
together with the (helpful) OpenSound people for quite some time now,
but we've failed to get sound to work, either with the drivers included
in kernel, or the commercial OSS.

Thanks a *lot* !  The RPMs seem to be fine, they worked for me out of
the box (on vanilla Valhalla w/latest errata).

-- 
\/ille Skytt�
ville.skytta at iki.fi


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1117.571c1399a9b49bf25062fcd2242d72f1.eml000066400000000000000000000104051444326627400310340ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Thu Aug 29 10:58:02 2002
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Subject: Re: ALSA (almost) made easy
From: Ville =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Skytt=E4?= 
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On Wed, 2002-08-28 at 23:48, Ville Skytt� wrote:

> > The devices are there now, thank Gordon for reporting the problem (and as I
> > said, you were the only one). Any further comments are very welcome!
> > 
> > Download : http://ftp.freshrpms.net/pub/freshrpms/testing/alsa/
> > New spec : http://freshrpms.net/builds/alsa-driver/alsa-driver.spec
> 
> Ahh, wonderful!  Just tried out these and *finally* got sound working
> with my Abit TH7II-RAID's integrated audio.  I've been pulling hair
> together with the (helpful) OpenSound people for quite some time now,
> but we've failed to get sound to work, either with the drivers included
> in kernel, or the commercial OSS.
> 
> Thanks a *lot* !  The RPMs seem to be fine, they worked for me out of
> the box (on vanilla Valhalla w/latest errata).

...except that I don't see an init script in the RPMs, a sample one
designed for RH is supposed to be in "utils/alsasound".  Could you take
a look if it can be included?

Cheers,
-- 
\/ille Skytt�
ville.skytta at iki.fi


_______________________________________________
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http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1118.41f75976258428a527855201ced28007.eml000066400000000000000000000113171444326627400304720ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Thu Aug 29 10:58:20 2002
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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: ALSA (almost) made easy
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Once upon a time, Ville wrote :

> > Thanks a *lot* !  The RPMs seem to be fine, they worked for me out of
> > the box (on vanilla Valhalla w/latest errata).
> 
> ...except that I don't see an init script in the RPMs, a sample one
> designed for RH is supposed to be in "utils/alsasound".  Could you take
> a look if it can be included?

It doesn't need to as Red Hat Linux already sets correct permissions on all
ALSA audio devices for locally logged in users (through the console.perms
file) and the modules.conf files takes care of loading the right modules on
demand. Also, aumix and the scripts that come with Red Hat Linux still work
for controlling the volume, so it's still saved and restored when the
computer is halted, even using ALSA.

I'm glad you got your card working with these! I'm now wondering if I won't
maybe buy an amplifier that supports Dolby Digial decoding (my current one
"only" does PRo Logic) since I've read that ALSA supports the S/PDIF
optical output of the sound chip of my Shuttle!
(http://freshrpms.net/shuttle/)

>>From what I can tell after only 2 days using it : ALSA rocks, especially
since having a full OSS compatibility results that it breaks nothing at
all! :-)

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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Subject: Re: ALSA (almost) made easy
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On Thu, 2002-08-29 at 00:02, Ville Skytt� wrote:

> > Thanks a *lot* !  The RPMs seem to be fine, they worked for me out of
> > the box (on vanilla Valhalla w/latest errata).
> 
> ...except that I don't see an init script in the RPMs, a sample one
> designed for RH is supposed to be in "utils/alsasound".  Could you take
> a look if it can be included?

Ok, some more nits: alsa-xmms doesn't work if I don't have
alsa-lib-devel installed, but xmms dies on startup telling me:

   Cannot load alsa library: libasound.so: cannot open shared object
   file: No such file or directory

libasound.so is part of alsa-lib-devel... if I install it, the ALSA XMMS
output plugins works fine.

I can't install the xine stuff, because xine-libs needs libGLcore.so.1,
which I can't find anywhere (NVidia stuff?  I have Radeon 7500...)

-- 
\/ille Skytt�
ville.skytta at iki.fi


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Once upon a time, Ville wrote :

> Ok, some more nits: alsa-xmms doesn't work if I don't have
> alsa-lib-devel installed, but xmms dies on startup telling me:
> 
>    Cannot load alsa library: libasound.so: cannot open shared object
>    file: No such file or directory
> 
> libasound.so is part of alsa-lib-devel... if I install it, the ALSA XMMS
> output plugins works fine.

OK, will fix :-)

> I can't install the xine stuff, because xine-libs needs libGLcore.so.1,
> which I can't find anywhere (NVidia stuff?  I have Radeon 7500...)

Argh, got bitten again! :-(
Will fix too...

Thanks a lot for pointing these out!
Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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Subject: Re: ALSA (almost) made easy
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On Thu, 2002-08-29 at 01:06, Matthias Saou wrote:

> > > Thanks a *lot* !  The RPMs seem to be fine, they worked for me out of
> > > the box (on vanilla Valhalla w/latest errata).
> > 
> > ...except that I don't see an init script in the RPMs, a sample one
> > designed for RH is supposed to be in "utils/alsasound".  Could you take
> > a look if it can be included?
> 
> It doesn't need to as Red Hat Linux already sets correct permissions on all
> ALSA audio devices for locally logged in users (through the console.perms
> file) and the modules.conf files takes care of loading the right modules on
> demand. Also, aumix and the scripts that come with Red Hat Linux still work
> for controlling the volume, so it's still saved and restored when the
> computer is halted, even using ALSA.

Ah!  The mixer stuff was what made me look for an init script in the
first place, I didn't bother to check whether the existing stuff would
have worked with that.  Will try that out, you can assume silence ==
success :)

> >From what I can tell after only 2 days using it : ALSA rocks, especially
> since having a full OSS compatibility results that it breaks nothing at
> all! :-)

Agreed.  Though with only 2 hours experience...

-- 
\/ille Skytt�
ville.skytta at iki.fi


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Once upon a time, Ville wrote :

> Ah!  The mixer stuff was what made me look for an init script in the
> first place, I didn't bother to check whether the existing stuff would
> have worked with that.  Will try that out, you can assume silence ==
> success :)

Well, from what I've tried, both the main and the PCM (at least) volume
levels can be controlled either by "alsamixer" or the good old "aumix".

> > >From what I can tell after only 2 days using it : ALSA rocks,
> > >especially
> > since having a full OSS compatibility results that it breaks nothing at
> > all! :-)
> 
> Agreed.  Though with only 2 hours experience...

I guess/hope some other people from the list will try it out ;-)

Both problems you reported (libasound.so and wrong xine dependency) are now
fixed in the current packages.

Oh, it's maybe also worth pointing out : I've implemented at last sorting
by both last change date and alphabetically for my "build list" in the php
code : http://freshrpms.net/builds/

And yes, I accept patches/comments/suggestions about all those spec files!

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
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Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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Subject: Re: ALSA (almost) made easy
From: Lance 
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Thanks for this, I'm going to give them another try.  One question: How
do I switch between digital out and analog out with ALSA?  With
emu10k1-tools it's easy enough (emu-config -d for digital, emu-config -a
for analog)  Is there a similar method with ALSA?

Lance

On Wed, 2002-08-28 at 12:00, Matthias Saou wrote:
> Followup to the story :
> 
> I've now made a sub-package of alsa-driver called "alsa-kernel" which
> contains only the kernel modules, and alsa-driver contains everything else
> from the original package (device entries, include files and docs).
> 
> This should allow installation of a single "alsa-driver" package and
> multiple "alsa-kernel" if you have more than one kernel installed. Right
> now the dependencies make it mandatory to have kernels installed through
> rpm... people who install from source can still install the ALSA modules
> from the source though ;-)
> 
> The devices are there now, thank Gordon for reporting the problem (and as I
> said, you were the only one). Any further comments are very welcome!
> 
> Download : http://ftp.freshrpms.net/pub/freshrpms/testing/alsa/
> New spec : http://freshrpms.net/builds/alsa-driver/alsa-driver.spec
> 
> If you aren't running kernel-2.4.18-10 for i686, simply --rebuild the
> alsa-driver source rpm and you'll get a package for your running kernel.
> 
> Matthias
> 
> -- 
> Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
> Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10
> Load : 0.08 0.42 0.84, AC on-line, battery charging: 100% (6:36)
> 
> _______________________________________________
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To find out all files in a dir over a given size, try:
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Subject: Re: ALSA (almost) made easy
From: Ville =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Skytt=E4?= 
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On Thu, 2002-08-29 at 01:50, Matthias Saou wrote:

> > Ah!  The mixer stuff was what made me look for an init script in the
> > first place, I didn't bother to check whether the existing stuff would
> > have worked with that.  Will try that out, you can assume silence ==
> > success :)
> 
> Well, from what I've tried, both the main and the PCM (at least) volume
> levels can be controlled either by "alsamixer" or the good old "aumix".

Cool, I'll try it out as well as the new RPMs tomorrow.

> > > >From what I can tell after only 2 days using it : ALSA rocks,
> > > >especially
> > > since having a full OSS compatibility results that it breaks nothing at
> > > all! :-)
> > 
> > Agreed.  Though with only 2 hours experience...
> 
> I guess/hope some other people from the list will try it out ;-)
> 
> Both problems you reported (libasound.so and wrong xine dependency) are now
> fixed in the current packages.

Thanks, that was quick!

-- 
\/ille Skytt�
ville.skytta at iki.fi


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Subject: Re: ALSA (almost) made easy
From: Lance 
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Ok, I got ALSA installed and there is no static inbetween mp3s like
before which is great!  My setup is digital 4.1 but sound is only coming
from front 2 speakers and subwoofer, rear speakers there is no sound. 
Also alsamixer or aumix are unresponsive as well. 

Lance

On Wed, 2002-08-28 at 18:09, Lance wrote:
> Thanks for this, I'm going to give them another try.  One question: How
> do I switch between digital out and analog out with ALSA?  With
> emu10k1-tools it's easy enough (emu-config -d for digital, emu-config -a
> for analog)  Is there a similar method with ALSA?
> 
> Lance
> 
> On Wed, 2002-08-28 at 12:00, Matthias Saou wrote:
> > Followup to the story :
> > 
> > I've now made a sub-package of alsa-driver called "alsa-kernel" which
> > contains only the kernel modules, and alsa-driver contains everything else
> > from the original package (device entries, include files and docs).
> > 
> > This should allow installation of a single "alsa-driver" package and
> > multiple "alsa-kernel" if you have more than one kernel installed. Right
> > now the dependencies make it mandatory to have kernels installed through
> > rpm... people who install from source can still install the ALSA modules
> > from the source though ;-)
> > 
> > The devices are there now, thank Gordon for reporting the problem (and as I
> > said, you were the only one). Any further comments are very welcome!
> > 
> > Download : http://ftp.freshrpms.net/pub/freshrpms/testing/alsa/
> > New spec : http://freshrpms.net/builds/alsa-driver/alsa-driver.spec
> > 
> > If you aren't running kernel-2.4.18-10 for i686, simply --rebuild the
> > alsa-driver source rpm and you'll get a package for your running kernel.
> > 
> > Matthias
> > 
> > -- 
> > Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
> > Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10
> > Load : 0.08 0.42 0.84, AC on-line, battery charging: 100% (6:36)
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > RPM-List mailing list 
> > http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list
> -- 
> :
> ####[ Linux One Stanza Tip (LOST) ]###########################
> 
> Sub : Finding out files larger than given size       LOST #324
> 
> To find out all files in a dir over a given size, try:
> find /path/to/dir_of_file -type f -size +Nk
> [Where N is a number like 1024 for 1mb, and multiples thereof] 
> 
> ####[Discussions on LIH : 04 Jul 2002]########################
> :
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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-- 
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Sub : Finding out files larger than given size       LOST #324

To find out all files in a dir over a given size, try:
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[Where N is a number like 1024 for 1mb, and multiples thereof] 

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Once upon a time, Lance wrote :

> Ok, I got ALSA installed and there is no static inbetween mp3s like
> before which is great!  My setup is digital 4.1 but sound is only coming
> from front 2 speakers and subwoofer, rear speakers there is no sound. 
> Also alsamixer or aumix are unresponsive as well. 

Maybe you could find more info or tips on the ALSA page for your card?
Also, you could try "alsactl store", editing /etc/asound.state" by hand
(for me it contains data similar to what I can control with "alsamixer")
then run "alsactl restore" and see if you're able to change what you want
that way.

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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Matthias Saou wrote:
 > I guess/hope some other people from the list will try it out ;-)
 >
 > Both problems you reported (libasound.so and wrong xine dependency) are now
 > fixed in the current packages.
 >
 > Oh, it's maybe also worth pointing out : I've implemented at last sorting
 > by both last change date and alphabetically for my "build list" in the php
 > code : http://freshrpms.net/builds/
 >
 > And yes, I accept patches/comments/suggestions about all those spec files!

Sure thing :)

I've added to the spec some flags to remove OSS and ISA-PNP support at
build time if one wishes to, so is's possible to do a

	rpmbuild --recompile  --without oss --without isapnp

(I haven't included OSS in my 2.4.19, because VT82433 on my motherboard
is not supported :( yet, and I'm too lazy to recompile the kernel :)).

Also, having the kernel compiled by me, I have no kernel-source package
installed.  I've added a flag "kernsrc", that also can be used
--without, to remove the dependency for kernel-source at build time.  It
would be nice to check the correct kernel include files actually exist
(/lib/modules/`uname -r`/build/include/linux/*.h), though; however, I'm
a beginner in RPM building -- is it possible to BuildRequire for a file
not provided by a package at all?  I've googled a bit, and found no way
to do that.

I was also considering adding some sort of flag for the --with-cards
option in alsa's ./configure, but don't know how to do that.  Only found
out about --without from your first alsa-driver.spec, and existing RPM docs 
don't help much.


Oh, and one more thing :).  At first I've installed the first version of
alsa-driver for 2.4.18-10, although I don't have that kernel, to supply
the dependency for the rest of the alsa rpm's, and compiled the modules
from source.  It created the /dev files and all.

Then wanted to make my own rpm for 2.4.19, so now I'm trying to rpmbuild
the alsa-kernel package.  Removed all alsa rpms, and tried my spec:

rpmbuild --ba alsa-driver.spec.mine --without oss --without isapnp
--without kernsrc

But I get this:

==[long successful compile snipped]=====================================
warning: File listed twice: /dev/adsp
warning: File listed twice: /dev/amidi
Finding  Provides: /usr/lib/rpm/find-provides
Finding  Requires: /usr/lib/rpm/find-requires
PreReq: /bin/sh /bin/sh rpmlib(PayloadFilesHavePrefix) <= 4.0-1
rpmlib(CompressedFileNames) <= 3.0.4-1
Requires(interp): /bin/sh /bin/sh
Requires(rpmlib): rpmlib(PayloadFilesHavePrefix) <= 4.0-1
rpmlib(CompressedFileNames) <= 3.0.4-1
Requires(post): /bin/sh
Requires(postun): /bin/sh
Requires: alsa-kernel = 0.9.0rc3 /sbin/depmod
Processing files: alsa-kernel-0.9.0rc3-fr4_2.4.19
Finding  Provides: /usr/lib/rpm/find-provides
Finding  Requires: /usr/lib/rpm/find-requires
PreReq: rpmlib(PayloadFilesHavePrefix) <= 4.0-1
rpmlib(CompressedFileNames) <= 3.0.4-1
Requires(rpmlib): rpmlib(PayloadFilesHavePrefix) <= 4.0-1
rpmlib(CompressedFileNames) <= 3.0.4-1
Requires: alsa-driver = 0.9.0rc3 kernel = 2.4.19
Checking for unpackaged file(s): /usr/lib/rpm/check-files
/var/tmp/alsa-driver-0.9.0rc3-root
error: Installed (but unpackaged) file(s) found:
     /etc/makedev.d/00macros
     /etc/rc.d/init.d/alsasound


RPM build errors:
      File listed twice: /dev/adsp
      File listed twice: /dev/amidi
      Installed (but unpackaged) file(s) found:
     /etc/makedev.d/00macros
     /etc/rc.d/init.d/alsasound
========================================================================

Like I said, I'm a beginned with RPM building, so I don't understand
much of what's going on here.  The 00macros file is from the MAKEDEV
rpm, and alsasound was supposed to be installed by alsa-driver, I think.
   It is not in the filesystem, anyway.

I've looked in /var/tmp/alsa-driver-0.9.0rc3-root, they are there in
etc.  For 00macros I think the part that does it is this line
in alsa-driver.spec:

cp -a %{_sysconfdir}/makedev.d/00macros /{buildroot}%{_sysconfdir}/makedev.d/

And alsasound is installed by %{BUILDIDR}/Makefile.


Oh, and I think I've forgot to mention, I'm running beta-null :).

 > Matthias

-silent

-- 
... And on the seventh day, God was arrested for tresspassing.


--------------090303060407010605030507
Content-Type: text/plain;
 name="alsa-driver.spec.patch"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline;
 filename="alsa-driver.spec.patch"

6a7,17
>
> %define withoss               yes
> %{?_without_oss:%define withoss no}
>
> %define withisapnp    auto
> %{?_without_isapnp:%define withisapnp no}
>
> %define kernsrc       1
> %{?_without_kernsrc:%define kernsrc 0}
>
>
20a32
> %if %{kernsrc}
21a34,36
> %else
> BuildRequires: MAKEDEV
> %endif
64c79
< %configure
---
> %configure --with-oss=%{withoss} --with-isapnp=%{withisapnp}
119a135,137
> * Thu Aug 29 2002 Daniel Pavel 
> - Added OSS and ISA-PNP build-time flags.
> - Added kernel-source requirement flag.


--------------090303060407010605030507--


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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: ALSA (almost) made easy
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Once upon a time, Daniel wrote :

>  > And yes, I accept patches/comments/suggestions about all those spec
>  > files!
> 
> Sure thing :)

Cool :-)

> I've added to the spec some flags to remove OSS and ISA-PNP support at
> build time if one wishes to, so is's possible to do a
> 
> 	rpmbuild --recompile  --without oss --without isapnp

OK, I'll add this.

> Also, having the kernel compiled by me, I have no kernel-source package
> installed.  I've added a flag "kernsrc", that also can be used
> --without, to remove the dependency for kernel-source at build time.  It
> would be nice to check the correct kernel include files actually exist
> (/lib/modules/`uname -r`/build/include/linux/*.h), though; however, I'm
> a beginner in RPM building -- is it possible to BuildRequire for a file
> not provided by a package at all?  I've googled a bit, and found no way
> to do that.

Requiring a file that isn't part of an rpm is not possible, no, except
maybe by stopping the build process if it isn't found... but that's errr...
ugly!
And I really think that for people who installed a kernel from sources, the
easiest is to install the alsa kernel drivers from source too...

> I was also considering adding some sort of flag for the --with-cards
> option in alsa's ./configure, but don't know how to do that.  Only found
> out about --without from your first alsa-driver.spec, and existing RPM
> docs don't help much.

This would be a tricky one since to use the "--with " feature of
rpmbuild, I think you'd need to add individual handling of each and every
card :-/

> Oh, and one more thing :).  At first I've installed the first version of
> alsa-driver for 2.4.18-10, although I don't have that kernel, to supply
> the dependency for the rest of the alsa rpm's, and compiled the modules
> from source.  It created the /dev files and all.

That's what the "alsa-driver" is there for, create all the base files
excluding the kernel drivers. What I would suggest for dependency reasons
it to install an "alsa-kernel" for the original kernel (you've kept it,
right? ;-)) and install ALSA modules from source for custom kernels built
from source.

> Then wanted to make my own rpm for 2.4.19, so now I'm trying to rpmbuild
> the alsa-kernel package.  Removed all alsa rpms, and tried my spec:
> 
> rpmbuild --ba alsa-driver.spec.mine --without oss --without isapnp
> --without kernsrc
> 
> But I get this:
> 
> ==[long successful compile snipped]=====================================
> RPM build errors:
>       File listed twice: /dev/adsp
>       File listed twice: /dev/amidi
>       Installed (but unpackaged) file(s) found:
>      /etc/makedev.d/00macros
>      /etc/rc.d/init.d/alsasound
> ========================================================================
> 
> Oh, and I think I've forgot to mention, I'm running beta-null :).

Indeed : The rpm 4.1 snapshot in (null) has a few new features among which
having the build fail when files are present in the build root but not
listed in the %files section. I should remove them manually as part of the
build process... or maybe the new "%exclude /path/to/file" in the %files
section would do, but I don't know how older versions of rpm would handle
it. On my (null) build system, I've simply set the variable :
%_unpackaged_files_terminate_build 0

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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Matthias Saou wrote:
> OK, I'll add this.

Cool :)

> Requiring a file that isn't part of an rpm is not possible, no, except
> maybe by stopping the build process if it isn't found... but that's errr...
> ugly!
> And I really think that for people who installed a kernel from sources, the
> easiest is to install the alsa kernel drivers from source too...

Yes, it is...  But then alsa-driver requires alsa-kernel, and I don't quite 
like --nodeps...

> This would be a tricky one since to use the "--with " feature of
> rpmbuild, I think you'd need to add individual handling of each and every
> card :-/

That's ok.  I was only considering it for the sake of tweaking anyway, not 
for some real-world need :).

> That's what the "alsa-driver" is there for, create all the base files
> excluding the kernel drivers. What I would suggest for dependency reasons
> it to install an "alsa-kernel" for the original kernel (you've kept it,
> right? ;-)) and install ALSA modules from source for custom kernels built
> from source.

Um...  I keep 2.4.18-12.2 for emergency sitations (like I forget to include 
keyboard support in kernel, dumb me), but alsa-kernel_2.4.18-10 does not 
require kernel-2.4.18-10, so that's ok.

> Matthias

-silent

-- 
... And on the seventh day, God was arrested for tresspassing.


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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: /home/dude
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Once upon a time, Axel wrote :

> I am now relaxed again ;), and pass this info on. Probably Matthias Saou
> himself is "dude", and some package has hardwired a path in his build
> directory. It would be nice to find out which and fix it, but I am using
> too many of the freshrpm suite to narrow it down.

Indeed, my usual login is "dude" (and has been since long before "The Big
Lebowsky" came out ;-)), and it seems the some programs wrongly hard code
my home directory when being compiled :-(
For instance :

[dude@python dude]$ strings /usr/bin/gentoo | grep dude
/home/dude/
[dude@python dude]$ strings /usr/bin/xine | grep dude
/home/dude/redhat/tmp/xine-root/usr/share/locale

These should probably be considered bugs in the program's build process
(especially for xine, look at that!), I'll report them upstream if/when I
have some time.

Thanks for noticing this!
Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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Hi Matthias,

I think I could do help you out with new plugins package for gkrellm 2. 
Would you prefer to keep it as it is now, or package every plugin
separately?  The latter would be probably easier to maintain.

-- 
\/ille Skytt�
ville.skytta at iki.fi


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From: "" Angles " Puglisi" 
To: "Lance" 
Cc: "FreshRPMs List" 
Subject: Re: thanks for the gamix source rpms! [ALSA stuff]
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I wish I could answer your question but my laptop does not have the digital stuff
hooked up :( so I so not know about it. I have an excellent ESS Maestro3 which OSS
supports pretty lame so I was forced to learn about ALSA.

I have used these commands to explore ALSA and my chip:

arecord -l   (list devices)
arecord -L   (list PCM decices)

I get some output like this:

> arecord -l
card 0: MAESTRO3 [ESS Allegro PCI], device 0: Allegro [Allegro]
  Subdevices: 1/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0

> arecord -L
PCM list:
 (SNIP - craploads of output)

I noticed that the output from this commands kind of maps to what the alsamixer or
gamix have.

For what it is worth, here is what I have in modules.conf for my sound stuff:

> ## ALSA portion
> alias char-major-116 snd
> ## OSS/Free portion
> alias char-major-14 soundcore
>
> ## ALSA portion
> alias snd-card-0 snd-maestro3
> ## OSS/Free portion
> alias sound-slot-0 snd-card-0
>
> ## OSS/Free portion - card #1
> alias sound-service-0-0 snd-mixer-oss
> # BAD alias sound-service-0-1 snd-seq-oss
> alias sound-service-0-3 snd-pcm-oss
> # BAD alias sound-service-0-8 snd-seq-oss
> alias sound-service-0-12 snd-pcm-oss
> #
> ## ALSA Options (optional)
> options snd snd_major=116 snd_cards_limit=1 snd_device_mode=0666
> options snd-maestro3 snd_index=0 snd_id=MAESTRO3 snd_amp_gpio=8
> #
> ## OSS Options (optional)
> alias snd-card-1 off
> alias snd-card-2 off
> alias snd-card-3 off
> alias sound-slot-1 off
> alias sound-service-1-0 off
>
> ## Preserve Mixer Settings
> #post-install /usr/sbin/alsactl restore MAESTRO3
> #pre-remove /usr/sbin/alsactl store MAESTRO3
> post-install /usr/sbin/alsactl restore
> pre-remove /usr/sbin/alsactl store

Hope that helps, good luck.


Lance (lance_tt@bellsouth.net) wrote*:
>
>Hello,
>
>Thanks for these rpms, I removed the binary built from source (.tar.gz)
>and installed your SRPM of gamix.  One quick question, is there a way to
>switch between digital out and analog out with the ALSA driver and
>utilities, or, for that matter, with gamix?  I know with the OSS drivers
>I was using it was as simple as 'emu-config -d for digital and
>emu-config -a for analog, with the emu-tools package for SBLive!  I
>noticed there is SB Live Analog/Digital Output Jack in alsamixer but
>haven't figured out the key to use, if this is the right control in
>mixer.  Also, I tried to expand gamix to display all possible controls
>but it defaults back to 'Wave' and 'Music'  With LFE, Center, Surround
>and Playback under Wave (this is how I control output of front and rear
>speakers for digital out...'Surround' and 'Playback')  Under 'Music'
>there are two controls but unresponsive.  I have a tuner and cassette
>deck hooked up to an audio/video switch that goes into 'Line In' on the
>soundcard.  Again, with the OSS drivers, it was as simple as emu-config
>-d and emu-config -a.  Digital out for anything coming from the
>computer, analog out for the tuner and cassette deck.  I don't know if
>this is necessary to switch inbetween to get 'Line In' to work or not,
>but an expansion of gamix would help, where I could see all the
>controls....
>
>Any help would be greatly appreciated and thanks again for the gamix
>rpms.
>
>Kind Regards,
>
>Lance
>--
>:
>####[ Linux One Stanza Tip (LOST) ]###########################
>
>Sub : Command line shortcuts (clear)                 LOST #310
>
>Tired of typing in "clear" every time you want the screen to
>be cleared ? Press [Ctrl-L] ... This works for  most shells,
>(except for ash, bsh and ksh)
>
>#############################################
>:
>

--
That's "angle" as in geometry.



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Hello!

i have just found a small issue with the downloader 4 x update. the ftp search engines are missing something like:

%{_datadir}/d4x/ftpsearch.xml 

thanks in advance,
che

p.s. i love the xmms-xosd plugin :)

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From: Doug Stewart 
Subject: Fluxbox
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I've noted that there are packaged versions of
Blackbox and hackedbox available from FreshRPMs.  What
about FluxBox? http://fluxbox.sf.net

I'd certainly enjoy a packaged version, since its
creators seem hesitant to provide .rpms (.debs, yes,
but no .rpms).

.Doug

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Hi,

=09I made a spec file for it some weeks ago, maybe it can be included in =
fresh.=20
If not,  at least you can use it...

I'm attaching it here...

Hope it might be some use for you, does the trick for me. Might be an old=
=20
version though, but should still work

Nick




On Wednesday 04 September 2002 21:00, Doug Stewart wrote:
> I've noted that there are packaged versions of
> Blackbox and hackedbox available from FreshRPMs.  What
> about FluxBox? http://fluxbox.sf.net
>
> I'd certainly enjoy a packaged version, since its
> creators seem hesitant to provide .rpms (.debs, yes,
> but no .rpms).
>
> .Doug
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
> http://finance.yahoo.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> RPM-List mailing list 
> http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list

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  name="fluxbox.spec"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="fluxbox.spec"

Summary: Blackbox derived window manager
Name: fluxbox
Version: 0.1.10
Release: nv1
License: other
Group: User Interface/Desktops
Source: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/fluxbox/%{name}-%{version}.tar.gz
URL: http://fluxbox.sourceforge.net
BuildRoot: %{_tmppath}/%{name}-root
BuildRequires: XFree86-devel, libstdc++-devel

%description


Fluxbox is yet another windowmanager for X.
It's based on the Blackbox 0.61.1 code. Fluxbox looks like blackbox and 
handles styles, colors, window placement and similar thing exactly like 
blackbox (100% theme/style compability).
Many changes and improvements have been made to the code, such as window tabs, 
iconbar, native keygrabber, gnome and kde support etc.

%prep
%setup -q


%build
%configure --enable-xinerama --enable-gnome --enable-kde
make

%install
rm -rf %{buildroot}
%makeinstall

%clean
rm -rf %{buildroot}


%files
%defattr(-, root, root)
%doc README NEWS COPYING AUTHORS INSTALL TODO doc/Coding_style
%{_bindir}/*
%{_datadir}/%{name}
%{_mandir}/man1/*

%changelog
* Thu Jul 19 2002 Nick Verhaegen
- Update to 0.1.10

* Tue Jul 9 2002 Nick Verhaegen
- Initial RPM release.


--------------Boundary-00=_OYOXHTVA0T2X8R5S233Y--


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Back when I had regular RH7.3 there was nothing better than "apt-get upgrade". But
now I'm running (null) beta and I have these questions:

which version of "apt" can I use, the RH7.3 version or the "rawhide" version?

Is there a way to use apt to update (null) with the rpms available for (null)
through up2date, since I prefer apt to that?

If I can use apt, can I use it to get updates from these 3 different places:
1. the (null) up2date Redhat upgrades
2. the (null) files at Freshrpms.net
3. the regular RH7.3 files from freshrpms.net

Am I asking for too much simplicity in this complicated world?

--
That's "angle" as in geometry.



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On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 07:11:23AM +0000,  Angles  Puglisi wrote:
> If I can use apt, can I use it to get updates from these 3 different places:
> 1. the (null) up2date Redhat upgrades
> 2. the (null) files at Freshrpms.net
> 3. the regular RH7.3 files from freshrpms.net

You could build your own apt-repository. Just mirror the needed directories
(e.g. by using a wget cron job), symlink the needed rpms and recreate the
repository. It is already worth the trouble, if you have more than one
installation.

In any case in order to acces the mentioned places, somebody must keep such a
repository up to date, be it yourself or someone else.
-- 
Axel.Thimm@physik.fu-berlin.de

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On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 12:32:58PM +0200, Axel Thimm wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 07:11:23AM +0000,  Angles  Puglisi wrote:
> > If I can use apt, can I use it to get updates from these 3 different
> > places:
> > 1. the (null) up2date Redhat upgrades
> > 2. the (null) files at Freshrpms.net
> > 3. the regular RH7.3 files from freshrpms.net
> You could build your own apt-repository. Just mirror the needed
> directories (e.g. by using a wget cron job), symlink the needed rpms
> and recreate the repository. It is already worth the trouble, if you
> have more than one installation.

Always nice to have one to put stuff that overrides RH things. Like if
you absolutely detest qt and some programs are rebuildable from sources
with different %configure options. You can get src.rpm, edit spec, bump
release numberwith your initials and another number and rebuild, insert
into apt and let loose... :)

Doesn't freshrpms have updates dir too? Maybe not quite as up to date as
up2date but still. I would never use up2date. There is another
repository at apt-rpm.tuxfamily.org IIRC. Not sure if that had The
updates.



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I spun another AlsaPlayer build, this time on my (null) box. I do not know what this
means but the Curl stuff compiled in this time.

It's sounding damn cool with the new alsa drivers. Thanks to Matthias for the Alsa
RPMS. Great job bring sound to the masses.

http://www.dudex.net/rpms/alsaplayer-0.99.71-aap2.i386.rpm
http://www.dudex.net/rpms/alsaplayer-0.99.71-aap2.i686.rpm
http://www.dudex.net/rpms/alsaplayer-0.99.71-aap2.src.rpm
http://www.dudex.net/rpms/alsaplayer-0.99.71.spec

--
That's "angle" as in geometry.



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From: Stephen Liu 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Apt-get question
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Hi All Folks,

I have 'APT' installed and updated from 'freshmeat.net.  But I failed using it

# apt-get install 
/mnt/cdrom/Linux/CDBurner/cdrtools-cdrecord-1.11a23-1.i386.rpm
Processing File Dependencies... Done
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
E: Couldn't find package 
/mnt/cdrom/Linux/CDBurner/cdrtools-cdrecord-1.11a23-1.i386.rpm

The file 'cdrtools-cdrecord-1.11a23-1.i386.rpm' is there

I performed another test copying the file 
'cdrtools-cdrecord-1.11a23-1.i386.rpm' to /root/Download

# apt-get install /root/Download/cdrtools-cdrecord-1.11a23-1.i386.rpm
Processing File Dependencies... Done
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
E: Couldn't find package /root/Download/cdrtools-cdrecord-1.11a23-1.i386.rpm

Still failed.  Finally I rpm 'cdrtools-cdrecord-1.11a23-1.i386.rpm' from the 
CD and suceeded.

Kindly advise what mistake I have committed.

Thanks in advance.

Stephen Liu

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From: Matthias Saou 
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Once upon a time, Stephen wrote :

> # apt-get install 
> /mnt/cdrom/Linux/CDBurner/cdrtools-cdrecord-1.11a23-1.i386.rpm

This is not how apt is meant to be used, see Gordon's answer to your post
on the Valhalla list for details.

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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From: Laurent Papier 
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Hi,
this is my first problem with one of the freshrpms rpms ...
I just upgrade mplayer and now I get

$ mplayer 
mplayer: error while loading shared libraries: libdvdnav.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

I guess Matthias has forgotten libdvdnav dependency.

-- 
They told me I needed WIN95 or better
So I chose Linux!

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From: rob bains 
Subject: Please help a newbie compile mplayer :-)
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 Hello,
   
         I just installed redhat 7.2 and I think I have everything 
working properly.  Anyway I want to install mplayer because I heard it 
can play quicktime movs.  I apt-get source mplayer and dl'd it to 
/usr/src. 

         I tried to just rpm --rebuild mplayer-20020106-fr1.src.rpm, 
then I get ; mplayer-20020106-fr1.src.rpm: No such file or directory.

         Any help or a link to some document would be appreciated, Thanks
-rob


_______________________________________________
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Subject: Re: Please help a newbie compile mplayer :-)
From: Lance 
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Make sure you rebuild as root and you're in the directory that you
downloaded the file.  Also it might complain of a few dependencies but
you can get these at freshrpms.net, except for gcc3, which you can find
on your Red Hat cd, Red Hat ftp, or rpmfind.net.

After you rebuild the source rpm it should install a binary rpm in
/usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386.  With all dependencies met, install mplayer
with 'rpm -ivh mplayer-20020106-fr1.rpm' and you should be good to go.

One last thing, you will need the win32 codecs, I found them on google,
create a directory /usr/lib/win32 and place the codecs in there.

Good Luck!

Lance

On Thu, 2002-01-31 at 23:44, rob bains wrote:
>     
>  Hello,
>    
>          I just installed redhat 7.2 and I think I have everything 
> working properly.  Anyway I want to install mplayer because I heard it 
> can play quicktime movs.  I apt-get source mplayer and dl'd it to 
> /usr/src. 
> 
>          I tried to just rpm --rebuild mplayer-20020106-fr1.src.rpm, 
> then I get ; mplayer-20020106-fr1.src.rpm: No such file or directory.
> 
>          Any help or a link to some document would be appreciated, Thanks
> -rob
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> RPM-List mailing list 
> http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list




_______________________________________________
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From: rob bains 
Subject: Re: Please help a newbie compile mplayer :-)
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
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Lance wrote:

>Make sure you rebuild as root and you're in the directory that you
>downloaded the file.  Also it might complain of a few dependencies but
>you can get these at freshrpms.net, except for gcc3, which you can find
>on your Red Hat cd, Red Hat ftp, or rpmfind.net.
>
>After you rebuild the source rpm it should install a binary rpm in
>/usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386.  With all dependencies met, install mplayer
>with 'rpm -ivh mplayer-20020106-fr1.rpm' and you should be good to go.
>
>One last thing, you will need the win32 codecs, I found them on google,
>create a directory /usr/lib/win32 and place the codecs in there.
>
>Good Luck!
>
>Lance
>
 I dl'd gcc3 and libgcc3, but I still get the same error message when I 
try rpm --rebuild or recompile. I do this as root, I dl'd as root also.

thanks for the help, any more idea what's going on?

>
>>
>>
>>         I tried to just rpm --rebuild mplayer-20020106-fr1.src.rpm, 
>>then I get ; mplayer-20020106-fr1.src.rpm: No such file or directory.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>RPM-List mailing list 
>http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list
>




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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: Please help a newbie compile mplayer :-)
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Once upon a time, rob wrote :

>  I dl'd gcc3 and libgcc3, but I still get the same error message when I 
> try rpm --rebuild or recompile. I do this as root, I dl'd as root also.
> 
> thanks for the help, any more idea what's going on?

I've never installed source rpms with apt, but I suppose that if you get
file not found, it's because the source rpm was installed. To see if this
is the case, go to /usr/src/redhat/SPECS/ and if you see mplayer.spec,
you'll just need to do "rpm -bb mplayer.spec" to get a binary build in
/usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386/

Matthias

-- 
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-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
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Title page has a login screen and I can't seem to get the apt indexes
anymore. Is it just me or is something going on there?

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Once upon a time, Harri wrote :

> Title page has a login screen and I can't seem to get the apt indexes
> anymore. Is it just me or is something going on there?

You can't get the file index from here either?
http://apt.nixia.no/apt/files/

During the past few days, I've experienced connection problems with that
site from time to time, but for me right now it's working.

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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From: Harri Haataja 
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Subject: Re: http://apt.nixia.no/
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On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 03:35:41PM +0100, Matthias Saou wrote:
> Once upon a time, Harri wrote :
>=20
> > Title page has a login screen and I can't seem to get the apt indexes
> > anymore. Is it just me or is something going on there?
>=20
> You can't get the file index from here either?
> http://apt.nixia.no/apt/files/

The requested URL /apt/files/ was not found on this server.

> During the past few days, I've experienced connection problems with that
> site from time to time, but for me right now it's working.

Maybe it's temporary :-/

--=20
Win a live rat for your mother-in-law!

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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: http://apt.nixia.no/
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Once upon a time, Harri wrote :

> > You can't get the file index from here either?
> > http://apt.nixia.no/apt/files/
> 
> The requested URL /apt/files/ was not found on this server.

Very strange then : It works fine from here, even shift-reloading and with
no proxy whatsoever!

> > During the past few days, I've experienced connection problems with
> > that site from time to time, but for me right now it's working.
> 
> Maybe it's temporary :-/

If you need another apt repository with Red Hat Linux 7.2 files, there are
a few others. See : http://freshrpms.net/apt/

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 04:15:52PM +0100, Matthias Saou wrote:
> Once upon a time, Harri wrote :
>=20
> > > During the past few days, I've experienced connection problems with
> > > that site from time to time, but for me right now it's working.
> >=20
> > Maybe it's temporary :-/
>=20
> If you need another apt repository with Red Hat Linux 7.2 files, there are
> a few others. See : http://freshrpms.net/apt/

I have a local one for the main and upgrades from somewhere plus my own
at $ORKPLACE.

blades@remiel% grep nixia /etc/apt/sources.list=20
#rpm http://apt.nixia.no redhat/7.2/i386 gnomehide
#rpm-src  http://apt.nixia.no redhat/7.2/i386 gnomehide

Ah, that's it. They had newer gnome there

--=20
"When life hands you a lemon, make batteries
=2E...then go electrocute someone."
	-- Stevo, Scary Devil Monastery

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From: "Brian French" 
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Subject: Prob. w/ install/uninstall
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hey i have a problem:
i have a rpms that i have installed that i want to uninstall, i do it
like so:
rpm -e [rpm package]
and it gives the error: package not installed, so i install it like
so:
rpm -i [rpm package]
and it gives the error: package already installed, so i force it to
install like so:
rpm -i --force [rpm package]
this installs it and then i try to uninstall it again and it still
gives me the same error: package not installed.
 
How can i get it to recognize that the package is indeed installed it,
and/or get it to unstall it?
 
Thanx in advance,
Brian French

-French


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From: Matthias Saou 
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Once upon a time, Brian wrote :

> hey i have a problem:
> i have a rpms that i have installed that i want to uninstall, i do it
> like so:
> rpm -e [rpm package]
> and it gives the error: package not installed, so i install it like
> so:
> rpm -i [rpm package]
> and it gives the error: package already installed, so i force it to
> install like so:
> rpm -i --force [rpm package]
> this installs it and then i try to uninstall it again and it still
> gives me the same error: package not installed.
>  
> How can i get it to recognize that the package is indeed installed it,
> and/or get it to unstall it?

You're a bit too vague on your "[rpm package]" here...
Maybe this will help you :

[root@python apg]# rpm -e apg
[root@python apg]# rpm -ivh apg-1.2.13-fr1.i386.rpm 
Preparing...                ###########################################
[100%]   1:apg                   
########################################### [100%][root@python apg]# rpm -e
apg[root@python apg]# rpm -ivh apg-1.2.13-fr1.i386.rpm 
Preparing...                ###########################################
[100%]   1:apg                   
########################################### [100%][root@python apg]# rpm -e
apg-1.2.13-fr1[root@python apg]# rpm -ivh apg-1.2.13-fr1.i386.rpm 
Preparing...                ###########################################
[100%]   1:apg                   
########################################### [100%][root@python apg]# rpm -e
apg-1.2.13-fr1.i386.rpm error: package apg-1.2.13-fr1.i386.rpm is not
installed[root@python apg]# 

You can just put the name, of the name and version, and even the release,
but the entire filename will not work!

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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From: "Brian French" 
To: 
Subject: RE: Prob. w/ install/uninstall
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oh ok, thanx alot!! i was puttin the entire rpm package name like
php-4.0.4pl1.i386.rpm
that's why it wasn't working.

-----Original Message-----
From: rpm-zzzlist-admin@freshrpms.net
[mailto:rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net]On Behalf Of Matthias Saou (by way
of Matthias Saou )
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 1:18 PM
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: Prob. w/ install/uninstall


Once upon a time, Brian wrote :

> hey i have a problem:
> i have a rpms that i have installed that i want to uninstall, i do it
> like so:
> rpm -e [rpm package]
> and it gives the error: package not installed, so i install it like
> so:
> rpm -i [rpm package]
> and it gives the error: package already installed, so i force it to
> install like so:
> rpm -i --force [rpm package]
> this installs it and then i try to uninstall it again and it still
> gives me the same error: package not installed.
>
> How can i get it to recognize that the package is indeed installed it,
> and/or get it to unstall it?

You're a bit too vague on your "[rpm package]" here...
Maybe this will help you :

[root@python apg]# rpm -e apg
[root@python apg]# rpm -ivh apg-1.2.13-fr1.i386.rpm
Preparing...                ###########################################
[100%]   1:apg
########################################### [100%][root@python apg]# rpm -e
apg[root@python apg]# rpm -ivh apg-1.2.13-fr1.i386.rpm
Preparing...                ###########################################
[100%]   1:apg
########################################### [100%][root@python apg]# rpm -e
apg-1.2.13-fr1[root@python apg]# rpm -ivh apg-1.2.13-fr1.i386.rpm
Preparing...                ###########################################
[100%]   1:apg
########################################### [100%][root@python apg]# rpm -e
apg-1.2.13-fr1.i386.rpm error: package apg-1.2.13-fr1.i386.rpm is not
installed[root@python apg]#

You can just put the name, of the name and version, and even the release,
but the entire filename will not work!

Matthias

--
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-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
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On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 12:42:02PM -0500, Brian French wrote:
> hey i have a problem:
> i have a rpms that i have installed that i want to uninstall, i do it
> like so:
> rpm -e [rpm package]
> and it gives the error: package not installed, so i install it like
> so:
Its a little confusing but you install rpms like
rpm -ivh packagename-0.1.1.rpm 
uninstalls must be done without the version info like
rpm -e packagename   ie: rpm -e sendmail or 
rpm -e sendmail-devel. 

give that a go and it should work np. 

Phil, 


> rpm -i [rpm package]
> and it gives the error: package already installed, so i force it to
> install like so:
> rpm -i --force [rpm package]
> this installs it and then i try to uninstall it again and it still
> gives me the same error: package not installed.
>  
> How can i get it to recognize that the package is indeed installed it,
> and/or get it to unstall it?
>  
> Thanx in advance,
> Brian French
> 
> -French
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> RPM-List mailing list 
> http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list

-- 
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think I'm ready. I've been shaking all night long...
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From: Mark Derricutt 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: problems with apt update
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Hiya, I always seem to get errors when I do an "apt update", is this a 
problem on the repository itself, or on my end, or possibly a timeout in 
the connection due to my connection being a crappy modem?

[root@spawn root]# apt-get update
Hit http://apt.nixia.no redhat/7.2/i386/base/pkglist.gnomehide
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386/base/pkglist.os
Ign http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386 release.os
Err http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386/base/pkglist.updates
  Bad header line
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386 release.updates
Err http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386/base/pkglist.freshrpms
  400 Bad Request
Err http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386 release.freshrpms
  Bad header line
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386/base/srclist.freshrpms
Ign http://apt.nixia.no redhat/7.2/i386 release.gnomehide
Ign http://apt.nixia.no redhat/7.2/i386/base/mirrors
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386 release.freshrpms
Ign http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386/base/mirrors
Ign http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386/base/mirrors
Ign http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386/base/mirrors
Ign http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386/base/mirrors
Failed to fetch 
http://apt.freshrpms.net/redhat/7.2/i386/base/pkglist.updates
  Bad header line
Failed to fetch 
http://apt.freshrpms.net/redhat/7.2/i386/base/pkglist.freshrpms
  400 Bad Request
Failed to fetch 
http://apt.freshrpms.net/redhat/7.2/i386/base/release.freshrpms
  Bad header line

                                    -- \m/ --
  "...if I seem super human I have been misunderstood." (c) Dream Theater
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Subject: Re: problems with 'apt-get -f install'
From: Lance 
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I have failed dependencies in RPM database to I am unable to use
apt-get.  I requests to run 'apt-get -f install' to fix these
dependencies, however, I get these errors when running 'apt-get -f
install' :

[root@localhost root]# apt-get -f install
Processing File Dependencies... Done
Reading Package Lists... Done       
Building Dependency Tree... Done
Correcting dependencies... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
  libgcj 
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  libgcj 
0 packages upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove(replace) and 68 not
upgraded.
Need to get 2407kB of archives. After unpacking 8598kB will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Y
Get:1 http://apt-rpm.tuxfamily.org redhat-7.2-i386/redhat/os libgcj
2.96-27 [2407kB]
Fetched 2407kB in 22s
(105kB/s)                                                                                                                         
Executing RPM (-U)...
Preparing...                ###########################################
[100%]
   1:libgcj                 error: unpacking of archive failed on file
/usr/share/libgcj.zip;3c5b5e75: cpio: MD5 sum mismatch
E: Sub-process /bin/rpm returned an error code (1)
[root@localhost root]# 



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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: problems with apt update
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Once upon a time, Mark wrote :

> Hiya, I always seem to get errors when I do an "apt update", is this a 
> problem on the repository itself, or on my end, or possibly a timeout in 
> the connection due to my connection being a crappy modem?
> 
> [root@spawn root]# apt-get update
> Hit http://apt.nixia.no redhat/7.2/i386/base/pkglist.gnomehide
> Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386/base/pkglist.os
> Ign http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386 release.os
> Err http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386/base/pkglist.updates
>   Bad header line
> Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386 release.updates
> Err http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386/base/pkglist.freshrpms
>   400 Bad Request
> Err http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386 release.freshrpms
>   Bad header line
> Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386/base/srclist.freshrpms
> Ign http://apt.nixia.no redhat/7.2/i386 release.gnomehide
> Ign http://apt.nixia.no redhat/7.2/i386/base/mirrors
> Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/i386 release.freshrpms
[...]

It works for me (it should works with or without the "en" subdirectory).
Does it always give you the same error each time? Do you use an proxy
server?

[root@python root]# apt-get update
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/en/i386/base/srclist.os
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/en/i386 release.os
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/en/i386/base/srclist.updates
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/en/i386 release.updates
Get:1 http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/en/i386/base/pkglist.os [1035kB]
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/en/i386 release.os
Get:2 http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/en/i386/base/pkglist.updates
[331kB] Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/en/i386 release.updates
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/en/i386/base/pkglist.freshrpms
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/en/i386 release.freshrpms
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/en/i386/base/srclist.os
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/en/i386 release.os
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/en/i386/base/srclist.updates
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/en/i386 release.updates
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/en/i386/base/srclist.freshrpms
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/en/i386 release.freshrpms
Ign http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/en/$(ARCH)/base/mirrors
Ign http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/en/$(ARCH)/base/mirrors
Ign http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/7.2/en/$(ARCH)/base/mirrors
Fetched 1366kB in 1m16s (17.9kB/s)
Processing File Dependencies... Done
Reading Package Lists... Done       
Building Dependency Tree... Done
W: http://apt.freshrpms.net/ will not be authenticated.
W: http://apt.freshrpms.net/ will not be authenticated.
W: http://apt.freshrpms.net/ will not be authenticated.
[root@python root]# 

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: problems with 'apt-get -f install'
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Once upon a time, Lance wrote :

> I have failed dependencies in RPM database to I am unable to use
> apt-get.  I requests to run 'apt-get -f install' to fix these
> dependencies, however, I get these errors when running 'apt-get -f
> install' :
[...]
> error: unpacking of archive failed on file
> /usr/share/libgcj.zip;3c5b5e75: cpio: MD5 sum mismatch
> E: Sub-process /bin/rpm returned an error code (1)
> [root@localhost root]# 

I'd say that the file apt downloaded is corrupted. Maybe trying "apt-get
clean" to remove all downloaded files first would solve the problem.

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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Subject: Re: problems with 'apt-get -f install'
From: Lance 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
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Hello,

Tried 'apt-get clean' with same results.

On Sat, 2002-02-02 at 06:08, Matthias Saou wrote:
> Once upon a time, Lance wrote :
> 
> > I have failed dependencies in RPM database to I am unable to use
> > apt-get.  I requests to run 'apt-get -f install' to fix these
> > dependencies, however, I get these errors when running 'apt-get -f
> > install' :
> [...]
> > error: unpacking of archive failed on file
> > /usr/share/libgcj.zip;3c5b5e75: cpio: MD5 sum mismatch
> > E: Sub-process /bin/rpm returned an error code (1)
> > [root@localhost root]# 
> 
> I'd say that the file apt downloaded is corrupted. Maybe trying "apt-get
> clean" to remove all downloaded files first would solve the problem.
> 
> Matthias
> 
> -- 
> Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
> -------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
> System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
> Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23
> 
> _______________________________________________
> RPM-List mailing list 
> http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list




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From: Mark Derricutt 
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Hi, I'm building an rpm for the resin webserver, and I basically want to 
install the entire tarball under a diretory, but, the tarball includes 
subdirectorys, in my spec i have:


install -s -m 755 %{name}-%{version}.%{release}/* \
  $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/usr/local/resin

and I'm getting:

install: `resin-2.0.5/bin' is a directory
install: `resin-2.0.5/conf' is a directory

Is there a proper/nice way I should handle this?


                                    -- \m/ --
  "...if I seem super human I have been misunderstood." (c) Dream Theater
         mark@talios.com - ICQ: 1934853 JID: talios@myjabber.net


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Subject: Re: http://apt.nixia.no/
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On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 05:41:32PM +0200, Harri Haataja wrote:
> I have a local one for the main and upgrades from somewhere plus my own
> at $ORKPLACE.

Olen ajatellut pystytt�� itselleni lokaalin apt-varaston, kun Suomesta ei 
tunnu l�ytyv�n julkista peili�. Osaisitko avittaa hiukan asiassa, eli 
kuinka l�hte� liikkeelle? Ensin kannattanee peilata varsinainen RH:n rpm:t 
jostain, vaan mill� softalla (rsync?) ja mist� (funet?) tuo kannattaa 
tehd�, ajatuksia?

-- 
Peter


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Sorry about that :) 

Didn't think before sending... So I didn't realize that Reply-To was to 
the list and not to the sender (as it usually is). 

Anyawy, I was asking Harri if he could point me a few advices on how to 
build my own apt repositry for RH updates. There is a tutorial of somekind 
at http://apt-rpm.tuxfamily.org/ which I'm following right now, but if 
there is some other good advices, let me know!

Regards,
Peter


On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 02:33:29PM +0200, Peter Peltonen wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 05:41:32PM +0200, Harri Haataja wrote:
> > I have a local one for the main and upgrades from somewhere plus my own
> > at $ORKPLACE.
> 
> Olen ajatellut pystytt�� itselleni lokaalin apt-varaston, kun Suomesta ei 
> tunnu l�ytyv�n julkista peili�. Osaisitko avittaa hiukan asiassa, eli 
> kuinka l�hte� liikkeelle? Ensin kannattanee peilata varsinainen RH:n rpm:t 
> jostain, vaan mill� softalla (rsync?) ja mist� (funet?) tuo kannattaa 
> tehd�, ajatuksia?
> 
> -- 
> Peter
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> RPM-List mailing list 
> http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list
> 

-- 
Peter


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Subject: Re: http://apt.nixia.no/
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Once upon a time, Peter wrote :

> On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 05:41:32PM +0200, Harri Haataja wrote:
> > I have a local one for the main and upgrades from somewhere plus my own
> > at $ORKPLACE.
> 
> Olen ajatellut pystytt�� itselleni lokaalin apt-varaston, kun Suomesta ei
> tunnu l�ytyv�n julkista peili�. Osaisitko avittaa hiukan asiassa, eli 
> kuinka l�hte� liikkeelle? Ensin kannattanee peilata varsinainen RH:n
> rpm:t jostain, vaan mill� softalla (rsync?) ja mist� (funet?) tuo
> kannattaa tehd�, ajatuksia?

Wow, Finnish seems even more complicated than German to me :-)
Could you send an English translation next time? I really didn't understand
a thing and I assume I'm not the only one ;-)

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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Peter Peltonen wrote:
> Sorry about that :) 
> 
> Didn't think before sending... So I didn't realize that Reply-To was to 
> the list and not to the sender (as it usually is). 

How about removing the reply-to to the list?


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On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 02:33:29PM +0200, Peter Peltonen wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 05:41:32PM +0200, Harri Haataja wrote:
> > I have a local one for the main and upgrades from somewhere plus my own
> > at $ORKPLACE.
> 
> Olen ajatellut pystytt�� itselleni lokaalin apt-varaston, kun Suomesta ei 
> tunnu l�ytyv�n julkista peili�. Osaisitko avittaa hiukan asiassa, eli 
> kuinka l�hte� liikkeelle? Ensin kannattanee peilata varsinainen RH:n rpm:t 
> jostain, vaan mill� softalla (rsync?) ja mist� (funet?) tuo kannattaa 
> tehd�, ajatuksia?

I'll post my own repository story here anyway, hope no-one minds.
It may freely be commented on or used in another text.

I have a directory like this:
$ tree  -d
.
|-- current7
|   |-- SRPMS.current
|   |-- SRPMS.gcc3
|   `-- redhat
|       |-- RPMS.current
|       |-- RPMS.gcc3
|       `-- base
|-- redhat-7_2
|   |-- SRPMS.os
|   `-- redhat
|       |-- RPMS.os -> 
|       `-- base
`-- testing
    |-- SRPMS.testing
    `-- redhat
        |-- RPMS.testing
        `-- base

27 directories

I throw updates to current7's rpms and my own stuff (with makefile :) to
testing.
After each new package, 
nice genbasedir -s --progress --topdir=$TOPDIR/ \
testing/redhat testing

(for -s to work, you need to make release files, pinch someones for
exmple)

This stuff is found under apache. I put that url, my keys and all that
into apt conf on the machines on the network and apt away.

As for .fi mirrors, funet is very slow. I think I use tuxfamily for
updates but when I see errata I usually also put that to my own one so
rest of the machines have a shorter path to it.
Funet hosts a whole load of mirrors and projects (it used to be (is?)
the main mirror for Linux. It was one of the big pub ftp sites). If
there was a definite apt repository, maybe they might mirror that as
well. I doubt RH would be very keen on using apt and forking a
distribution doesn't seem like an easy option, someone should just start
a project.

-- 
"Barry also was quick to point out that the Titanium uses torque screws as
opposed to Phillips screws. We're not sure why this matters even a little
bit, but Barry sure seemed to think it was interesting.
That's why Mac geeks scare us." 	-- ZDNet Powerbook Titanium review 

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From: Harri Haataja 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: About apt, kernel updates and dist-upgrade
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On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 05:04:08PM +0200, Peter Peltonen wrote:
> I started wondering how does apt react when it finds a newer kernel in the 
> bunch of "to be updated" files?

Look at /etc/apt/apt.conf. I think ^kernel$ matches the kernel packages
(apart from those matched by the rest, smp, enterprise).
I think it won't do anything about the kernels. Come to think of it, the
abovementioned might have nothing to do with it.

I explicitly use apt-get install kernel and then from the list pick a
version and then install kernel#2.4.foo-bar.

> And has anyone ever tried to do a dist-upgrade, say from 7.1 to 7.2? 
> Should it work? If not, why?

Should. Haven't tried with dist-upgrade but I have put 7.2 netboot
mirror (ie, 7.2) into sources.list and run install step-by-step for IIRC
everything. Worked ok. I think there'll be a few .rpmnew files worth
checking such as, especially, passwd and group.
I think there was a group change. "lock" ?

-- 
It feels great to wake up and not know what day it is, doesn't it?

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From: Matthias Saou 
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Subject: Re: About apt, kernel updates and dist-upgrade
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Once upon a time, Peter wrote :

> I started wondering how does apt react when it finds a newer kernel in
> the bunch of "to be updated" files?

It skips it. See the /etc/apt/apt.conf file for this.

> And has anyone ever tried to do a dist-upgrade, say from 7.1 to 7.2? 
> Should it work? If not, why?

I've done a dist-upgrade from 7.2 to a quite broken rawhide release... it
was a mess, still, it went much faster and smoother than if I had done it
"manually" with rpm -U or -F. I think that updates between stable releases
should still be done with the installer since IIRC, sometimes a few
twitches are done by anaconda to migrate configurations to new formats. It
should work though... I still prefer backuping config files and
reinstalling a clean system when I have the time.

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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On Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 04:53:14PM +0100, Matthias Saou wrote:
> It skips it. See the /etc/apt/apt.conf file for this.

In my apt.conf reads:

----
RPM
{
   // Leave list empty to disable
   AllowedDupPkgs {"^kernel$"; "kernel-smp"; "kernel-enterprise"; };
   HoldPkgs {"kernel-source"; "kernel-headers"; };
}
----

If I understand this correctly, then only kernel-source and kernel-headers 
are held from being installed, but kernel will be installed, right?

Maybe I should test this on some vanilla system...

-- 
Peter


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From: Mark Derricutt 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Problem with an rpm...
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Hiya, I just myself an rpm, and when I did -Uvh to upgrade the earlier 
version I had installed (also from my rpm) I got:

[root@spawn i386]# rpm -Uvh mulberry-2.2-b1.i386.rpm
Preparing...                ########################################### 
[100%]
   1:mulberry               ########################################### 
[100%]
error: db3 error(-30998) from db->close: DB_INCOMPLETE: Cache flush was 
unable to complete

Whats the DB_INCOMPLETE mean?

It all seems to have installed ok thou...

                                    -- \m/ --
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Mark Derricutt wrote:
> Hiya, I just myself an rpm, and when I did -Uvh to upgrade the earlier 
> version I had installed (also from my rpm) I got:
> 
> [root@spawn i386]# rpm -Uvh mulberry-2.2-b1.i386.rpm
> Preparing...                ########################################### 
> [100%]
>   1:mulberry               ########################################### 
> [100%]
> error: db3 error(-30998) from db->close: DB_INCOMPLETE: Cache flush was 
> unable to complete

It's not the rpm, it's the rpm-system with you. The cache seems to have 
rottened. Try removing /var/lib/rpm/__db*


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From: Mark Derricutt 
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Do I need to do anything to recreate anything after deleting this?

I did notice an rpm I made the other day didn't work, and just sat there 
for ages  seemingly doing nothing, which probably did this :(

Ok, now I get:


Fetched 88.1kB in 2m31s (581B/s)
error: cannot get exclusive lock on /var/lib/rpm/Packages
error: cannot open Packages index using db3 - Operation not permitted (1)
E: could not open RPM database:cannot open Packages index using db3 - 
Operation not permitted (1)

Arrrrg.

--On Tuesday, February 05, 2002 15:06:28 +0100 Roy-Magne Mo 
 wrote:

> It's not the rpm, it's the rpm-system with you. The cache seems to have
> rottened. Try removing /var/lib/rpm/__db*



                                    -- \m/ --
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From: Mark Derricutt 
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Never mind, there was some cron thing doing rpm -qf ???  seems fine now.

--On Wednesday, February 06, 2002 07:37:44 +1300 Mark Derricutt 
 wrote:

> Fetched 88.1kB in 2m31s (581B/s)
> error: cannot get exclusive lock on /var/lib/rpm/Packages
> error: cannot open Packages index using db3 - Operation not permitted (1)
> E: could not open RPM database:cannot open Packages index using db3 -
> Operation not permitted (1)



                                    -- \m/ --
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Mark Derricutt wrote:
> Never mind, there was some cron thing doing rpm -qf ???  seems fine now.
> 
> --On Wednesday, February 06, 2002 07:37:44 +1300 Mark Derricutt 
>  wrote:
> 
>> Fetched 88.1kB in 2m31s (581B/s)
>> error: cannot get exclusive lock on /var/lib/rpm/Packages
>> error: cannot open Packages index using db3 - Operation not permitted (1)
>> E: could not open RPM database:cannot open Packages index using db3 -
>> Operation not permitted (1)

You can do a rpm --rebuilddb too


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From: Peter Peltonen 
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Subject: Apt problems
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Two issues:

----
Sorry, but the following packages have unmet dependencies:
  openssh: Depends: openssl (= 0.9.5a) but 0.9.6b-8 is installed
  php-pgsql: Depends: postgresql but it is not installed
             Depends: libpq.so.2
E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f.
----

1. I have the following openssl packages installed:

----
openssl-perl-0.9.6b-8
openssl-0.9.6b-8
openssl095a-0.9.5a-11
openssl-devel-0.9.6b-8
----

The openssl095a package should provide the openssl-0.9.5a compatibility 
but apt doesn't think so? 

2. I have postgresql installed from the source. So that's why I need 
php-pgsql. Is there a way to tell apt about packages I don't want it to 
complain about?

-- 
Peter


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From: Harri Haataja 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: Apt problems
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On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 04:29:53PM +0200, Peter Peltonen wrote:
> Two issues:
>=20
> ----
> Sorry, but the following packages have unmet dependencies:
>   openssh: Depends: openssl (=3D 0.9.5a) but 0.9.6b-8 is installed
>   php-pgsql: Depends: postgresql but it is not installed
>              Depends: libpq.so.2
> E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f.
> ----
>=20
> 1. I have the following openssl packages installed:
>=20
> ----
> openssl-perl-0.9.6b-8
> openssl-0.9.6b-8
> openssl095a-0.9.5a-11
> openssl-devel-0.9.6b-8
> ----
>=20
> The openssl095a package should provide the openssl-0.9.5a compatibility=
=20
> but apt doesn't think so?=20

I believe that's just a matter of string parsing. If someone were to fix
the openssh package, removing the explicit Requires:, I believe the
automagic binary handler would figure the right libraries to use and
install. I haven't met an openssh like that and in worst case I've had 3
different openssl libraries (WTF can't they just bump a major version if
it's incompatible?!?).

> 2. I have postgresql installed from the source. So that's why I need=20
> php-pgsql. Is there a way to tell apt about packages I don't want it to=
=20
> complain about?

I have a few such things (with jdk, imlib, kernel DRI version..
something) and Ive just made dummy packages (with verbose warning
attached ;) that explicitly provide those capabilities. (or claim to,
that is).

--=20
If you only want to go 500 miles, can you begin with a halfstep?

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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: Apt problems
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Once upon a time, Harri wrote :

> On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 04:29:53PM +0200, Peter Peltonen wrote:
> > Two issues:
> > 
> > ----
> > Sorry, but the following packages have unmet dependencies:
> >   openssh: Depends: openssl (= 0.9.5a) but 0.9.6b-8 is installed
> >   php-pgsql: Depends: postgresql but it is not installed
> >              Depends: libpq.so.2
> > E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f.
> > ----
> > 
> > 1. I have the following openssl packages installed:
> > 
> > ----
> > openssl-perl-0.9.6b-8
> > openssl-0.9.6b-8
> > openssl095a-0.9.5a-11
> > openssl-devel-0.9.6b-8
> > ----
> > 
> > The openssl095a package should provide the openssl-0.9.5a compatibility
> > but apt doesn't think so? 
> 
> I believe that's just a matter of string parsing. If someone were to fix
> the openssh package, removing the explicit Requires:, I believe the
> automagic binary handler would figure the right libraries to use and
> install. I haven't met an openssh like that and in worst case I've had 3
> different openssl libraries (WTF can't they just bump a major version if
> it's incompatible?!?).

Strange... all my openssh packages don't explicitly requires a version of
openssl. What version of openssh do you have? Is it an official Red Hat
package? I suppose it isn't, and using Red Hat's rpms will solve your
problem.

What you need to know for openssl is :
0.9.5b is libcrypto.so.0 and libssl.so.0
0.9.6  is libcrypto.so.1 and libssl.so.1
0.9.6b is libcrypto.so.2 and libssl.so.2

Now in all Red Hat packages I've seen so far, the only dependency is on
those files and not on "openssl = version".

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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Subject: apt-get http fails
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I installed apt-get yesterday and liked it, for a couple hours anyway.=20
Late last night I started to get errors like:


--( root@theshadows )-- apt-get update
E: Method http has died unexpectedly!
E: Tried to dequeue a fetching object
E: Tried to dequeue a fetching object
E: Tried to dequeue a fetching object
E: Tried to dequeue a fetching object
E: Tried to dequeue a fetching object
E: Tried to dequeue a fetching object
E: Tried to dequeue a fetching object
(...)

i get the same errors (two like the first line instead of one) with
apt-get update.

I was wondering why this would happen.

I would appreciate any help you all can give me.

Thanks.

--=20
					-Govind Salinas
ICQ:32026672					AIM:DyErthScum

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Subject: Re: Apt problems
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On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 04:30:18PM +0200, Harri Haataja wrote:
> install. I haven't met an openssh like that and in worst case I've had 3
> different openssl libraries (WTF can't they just bump a major version if
> it's incompatible?!?).

So, what should I with the openssl thing?

> something) and Ive just made dummy packages (with verbose warning
> attached ;) that explicitly provide those capabilities. (or claim to,
> that is).

How do I make such packages?

-- 
Peter


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Subject: Re: Apt problems
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On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 04:14:27PM +0100, Matthias Saou wrote:
> Strange... all my openssh packages don't explicitly requires a version of
> openssl. What version of openssh do you have? Is it an official Red Hat
> package? I suppose it isn't, and using Red Hat's rpms will solve your
> problem.

openssh-3.0.2p1-1

I think that is directly from openssh site. It's from the RH 6.2 that I 
upgraded to 7.2 (6.2 doesn't ship with openssh...). 

I probably should downgrade to the versoin RH provides except I can't do 
that as I don't have physical access to that box and downgrading ssh 
packages over ssh doesn't sound like a bright idea...

-- 
Peter


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From: Matthias Saou 
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Once upon a time, Peter wrote :

> On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 04:14:27PM +0100, Matthias Saou wrote:
> > Strange... all my openssh packages don't explicitly requires a version
> > of openssl. What version of openssh do you have? Is it an official Red
> > Hat package? I suppose it isn't, and using Red Hat's rpms will solve
> > your problem.
> 
> openssh-3.0.2p1-1
> 
> I think that is directly from openssh site. It's from the RH 6.2 that I 
> upgraded to 7.2 (6.2 doesn't ship with openssh...). 

That explains...

> I probably should downgrade to the versoin RH provides except I can't do 
> that as I don't have physical access to that box and downgrading ssh 
> packages over ssh doesn't sound like a bright idea...

Well, with 7.0, I've seen a few problems with doing that, but as of 7.2
it's really wonderful! Ever tried of completely uninstalling all openssh
related packages while being connected through ssh? Well, it works!!!! Of
course, if the connection cuts at that moment, you're stuck, but a simple
upgrade with official Red Hat packages also works like a charm :-)

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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On Wed, Feb 06, 2002 at 04:30:18PM +0200, Harri Haataja wrote:
> I have a few such things (with jdk, imlib, kernel DRI version..
> something) and Ive just made dummy packages (with verbose warning
> attached ;) that explicitly provide those capabilities. (or claim to,
> that is).

Hm. One could do this with rpm's --justdb switch too, without having to 
make a dummy package, right?

I was wondering that this is a bit dangerous if there is a update for my 
software, as the dummy package might get updated with it overwriting the 
installation I've done from source... Not good.

Is there really no "--nodeps" kind of switch in apt-get? 

-- 
Peter


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About apt.conf there are these lines:

----
RPM 
{
   // Leave list empty to disable
   AllowedDupPkgs {"^kernel$"; "kernel-smp"; "kernel-enterprise"; };
   HoldPkgs {"kernel-source"; "kernel-headers"; };
}
----

How do I tell apt hold all kernel packages? Can I use syntax like 
"kernel*"; ? 

And I don't quite understand what the part "^kernel$"; means?

-- 
Peter


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From: Harri Haataja 
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On Thu, Feb 07, 2002 at 12:29:14AM +0200, Peter Peltonen wrote:
> About apt.conf there are these lines:
> ----
> RPM 
> {
>    // Leave list empty to disable
>    AllowedDupPkgs {"^kernel$"; "kernel-smp"; "kernel-enterprise"; };
>    HoldPkgs {"kernel-source"; "kernel-headers"; };
> }
> ----
> 
> How do I tell apt hold all kernel packages? Can I use syntax like 
> "kernel*"; ? 
> 
> And I don't quite understand what the part "^kernel$"; means?

You could read about regular expressions.
^kernel$ matches "kernel" and nothimg more.
Kerne, kernel-smp and kernel-enterprise are the kernel packages you
might be running in a RH system. Packages like kernel-headers,
kernel-BOOT and kernel-doc aren't matched. If it just said "kernel", it
would match *all* those packages.

-- 
"You were good with that recorder." (=nokkahuilu)
"Soitit hyvin sit� mankkaa."
	-- (Suomennos) Men Behaving Badly

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Thanks for the great work Mathias but I would like to point out that this
list is fastly become the apt-rpm-list instead of the rpm-list. The
discussion concerning apt is overwhelming. Maybe another list is in order
for those having trouble with apt-rpm. apt-rpm-hotline@freshrpms.net ? :)

Though I think apt-rpm is a great tool, I don't use it and would like to
get back to talk of new packages and rpm building techniques.

dTd
Daniel T. Drea
dandanielle@mindspring.com
http://dandanielle.home.mindspring.com


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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
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Once upon a time, dTd wrote :

> 
> Thanks for the great work Mathias but I would like to point out that this
> list is fastly become the apt-rpm-list instead of the rpm-list. The
> discussion concerning apt is overwhelming. Maybe another list is in order
> for those having trouble with apt-rpm. apt-rpm-hotline@freshrpms.net ? :)
> 
> Though I think apt-rpm is a great tool, I don't use it and would like to
> get back to talk of new packages and rpm building techniques.

Hmmm, know what? On http://lists.freshrpms.net/ the apt-list has been up
for a while now ;-) There is almost no traffic though, since I wanted to
keep that list for apt-rpm on the server side (mirrors, building
repositories etc.), but hey, it could be a good place for general apt-rpm
questions ;-)

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1187.e5fee75dd86128e81186369567522f61.eml000066400000000000000000000066001444326627400307420ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Tue Sep 10 18:14:45 2002
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From: Matthias Saou 
To: RPM-List 
Subject: Holidays for freshrpms.net :-)
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Hi all,

I'll be leaving this evening until next Monday, with no access to
whatsoever to a single computer until then, woohoo, real holidays! :-)

So don't be worried if there's a new release of  and that it's not updated quickly despite your many
requests to the list ;-)

Before going, I did repackage the latest hackedbox and lbreakout2 that both
came out today.

Have fun! (I will!! ;-))
Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

_______________________________________________
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http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1188.1f6d5c1960b4d2d50e9745073559284e.eml000066400000000000000000000065621444326627400307300ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Tue Sep 10 18:14:49 2002
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Subject: Re: Holidays for freshrpms.net :-)
From: Chris Kloiber 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
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On Tue, 2002-09-10 at 12:39, Matthias Saou wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'll be leaving this evening until next Monday, with no access to
> whatsoever to a single computer until then, woohoo, real holidays! :-)

I don't think I could take it. The network was down for an hour here and
I was climbing the walls. :)

Enjoy!

-- 
Chris Kloiber

_______________________________________________
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1189.e69e458af7eefebc70d658dd2e6d23df.eml000066400000000000000000000062461444326627400316240ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Tue Sep 10 18:14:50 2002
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From: Matthias Haase 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: Holidays for freshrpms.net :-)
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On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 18:39:07 +0200
Matthias Saou  wrote:

> Before going, I did repackage the latest hackedbox and lbreakout2 that
> both came out today.
> 
> Have fun! (I will!! ;-))
fun here too, recompiled gnome 2.02rc2 today ;-)

Have a nice and good time!

-- 
regards
      Matthias

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1190.99eaa82bada000ca0ada9512a3f590e2.eml000066400000000000000000000102231444326627400313570ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Wed Sep 11 13:41:24 2002
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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: Holidays for freshrpms.net :-)
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Once upon a time, Chris wrote :

> On Tue, 2002-09-10 at 12:39, Matthias Saou wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > I'll be leaving this evening until next Monday, with no access to
> > whatsoever to a single computer until then, woohoo, real holidays! :-)
> 
> I don't think I could take it. The network was down for an hour here and
> I was climbing the walls. :)

I can't stand it either when it's at work or home and I'd planned on doing
something that required network access... but I really feel like I need a
break now, away from work pressure that almost drove me nuts all summer!
Ah, the joys of responsibilities... :-/

Six days without computers ahead, but six days driving my 600 Bandit
roadster bike! I won't be miserable nor get bored, don't worry for me ;-)
I also have the first Lord of the Rings book to finish (half way through
now) and the two others to read... lots of "sane" and non-wired occupations
ahead!
Oh, did I mention beer drinking with friends? :-))))

Matthias (really happy to be on holidayyyy for the first time this year!)

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1191.f8b145ebabbd42450c292e448cf44f15.eml000066400000000000000000000064541444326627400312610ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Mon Sep 16 00:09:13 2002
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http://beast.gtk.org

There's a realy nasty shortage on sequencers :(

(Actually I'd like this running on my main box, which is Irix but that
I'll probably try to tackle myself :)

-- 
Rule #1: All software sucks
Rule #2: All hardware sucks.
Rule #3: My vacuum-cleaner is hardware. It never obeys rule #2?
		-- Tanuki the Raccoon-dog, Scary Devil Monastery


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From: Matthias Saou 
To: RPM-List 
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Hi,

Just the kind of announce I make once in a while :
- I've rebuilt a new "alsaplayer" package based on Angle's one.
- I've rebuilt a hopefully final version "-fr8" of the "alsa-driver" and
  "alsa-kernel" packages which fix all known SMP build issues.

Both can be found here :
http://ftp.freshrpms.net/pub/freshrpms/testing/alsa/

I've also repackaged gkrellm 2.0.2 with at last a separate package for the
server that can be installed standalone and doesn't even require glib2.
http://ftp.freshrpms.net/pub/freshrpms/testing/gkrellm/

Last but not least, my latest proftpd 1.2.6 package incorporates some nifty
new features : You can use any of "--with ldap", "--with mysql" and "--with
postgres" when rebuilding the source rpm with rpmbuild to enable desired
extra authentication methods and all package requirements are set
accordingly, and the release tag is changed too.
http://valhalla.freshrpms.net/ (the usual place ;-))

I think I'll use this "--with " switch more and more where
possible. Some other of my package already use it like the xmame for its
output targets, sqlrelay for its modules and my latest sylpheed claws spec
to enable Pilot support.

As usual, feedback and comments are welcome! :-)

Matthias

PS: Yup, I'm back from my holidays ;-)

-- 
Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10
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On Wed, 2002-09-18 at 17:50, Matthias Saou wrote:

> I think I'll use this "--with " switch more and more where
> possible.

Nifty, I've been thinking about that too.  Any good ideas how to
document those targets?  %description?

-- 
\/ille Skytt�
ville.skytta at iki.fi


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Greetings ...

> PS: Yup, I'm back from my holidays ;-)
	I hope you did not miss us at all ... ;-0

 > I think I'll use this "--with " switch more and more where
 > possible.
	Mmm, great stuff ... Now to get the RedHat Samba packager to do the same 
thing ...

	I have used there spec file and fun a few problems in it, and one of them 
was just hashing out things for other use ...

	Now to get to grips with the Kernel ... still have not found and easy way to 
rebuild the Kernel without having to wait and hour for it to generate the 
headers for all arch ... arrrrhhhh ...

Mailed
Lee


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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: --with ...
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Once upon a time, C.Lee wrote :

>  > I think I'll use this "--with " switch more and more where
>  > possible.
> 	Mmm, great stuff ... Now to get the RedHat Samba packager to do the
> 	same thing ...

I'm sure that if you file a bugzilla entry with a relevant patch against
the spec file, chances of getting the change done are on your side ;-)

> 	I have used there spec file and fun a few problems in it, and one
> 	of them was just hashing out things for other use ...
> 
> 	Now to get to grips with the Kernel ... still have not found and
> 	easy way to rebuild the Kernel without having to wait and hour for
>       it to generate the headers for all arch ... arrrrhhhh ...

The problem is that "--with  --without " is clearly not meant to
change deeply the way a package is built. Its use would be more like
enabling/disabling gpg, ldap, whateversql support in packages as it's not
possible to use something like "--with-=" which could be used for
a much wider scope.

Matthias

-- 
Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10
Load : 0.00 0.12 0.32, AC on-line, battery charging: 100% (4:47)

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From: "" Angles " Puglisi" 
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Matthias Saou (matthias@rpmforge.net) wrote*:
>- I've rebuilt a new "alsaplayer" package based on Angle's one.

Cool, one less package to maintain :)

One interesting thing about alsaplayer is that RedHat's XMMS package in RH8 will
probably not play mp3 files. But alsaplayer does play mp3s "out of the box".

Also, they are developing rapidly in their CVS and looks like their next version
of alsaplaer will be pretty cool, but I have no idea when it will be ready.

--
That's "angle" as in geometry.



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Have you thought of bumping up sylpheed-claws?  I see sylpheed got a
bump... show some claws love?  (;

-- 
Jesse Keating
j2Solutions.net
Mondo DevTeam (www.mondorescue.org)

Was I helpful?  Let others know:
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Angles Puglisi (angles@aminvestments.com) wrote*:
>Also, they are developing rapidly in their CVS and looks like their next version
>of alsaplaer will be pretty cool, but I have no idea when it will be ready.

ahh, oops they just released. -/

--
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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: sylpheed-claws
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Once upon a time, Jesse wrote :

> Have you thought of bumping up sylpheed-claws?  I see sylpheed got a
> bump... show some claws love?  (;

Well, in sylheed's "claws" branch you need to wait a bit for the developers
to backport all the updates from the main branch before getting a release
with the same version number.

Right now, the latest "claws" release is still 0.8.2claws :
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=25528

But as it's the primary mailer I use, you can be sure that as soon as it's
updated to 0.8.3, I'll update my build! :-)

Matthias

-- 
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From: Axel Thimm 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: Should mplayer be build with Win32 codecs?
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Hi,

has anyone an answer for me? The mplayer documentation still suggests to use
them for x86 architectures.

Thanks. :)

Regards, Axel.

On Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 11:39:03PM +0200, Axel Thimm wrote:
> Are there perhaps licensing issues, which forbid such a practice? Or any other
> reasons?
> 
> The reason I ask is that I have seen performance and also some feature
> differences (fullscreen w/o keeping aspect ratio, visual artifacts on NVIDIA)
> comparing with or without the Win32 codecs. The mplayer authors seem to
> recommend using them for x86 architectures.
> 
> Beware, I am no mplayer/codecs/whatever expert, I may be totally lost ...

-- 
Axel.Thimm@physik.fu-berlin.de

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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: Should mplayer be build with Win32 codecs?
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Once upon a time, Axel wrote :

> has anyone an answer for me? The mplayer documentation still suggests to
> use them for x86 architectures.

Well, I think my avifile build still needs the win32 codecs to be able to
run (manually copied into /usr/lib/win32/), but personally, I've been very
happy with mplayer's default (which is ffmpeg's ffdivx decoder) for nearly
all the DivX files I used. The only ones that still require (from my own
experience) the use of the win32 codecs are the ones encoded with a strange
DivX 3 sound format... and I've really not seen any quality or speed
improvements when using them.

Matthias

> On Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 11:39:03PM +0200, Axel Thimm wrote:
> > Are there perhaps licensing issues, which forbid such a practice? Or
> > any other reasons?
> > 
> > The reason I ask is that I have seen performance and also some feature
> > differences (fullscreen w/o keeping aspect ratio, visual artifacts on
> > NVIDIA) comparing with or without the Win32 codecs. The mplayer authors
> > seem to recommend using them for x86 architectures.
> > 
> > Beware, I am no mplayer/codecs/whatever expert, I may be totally lost
> > ...

-- 
Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10
Load : 0.35 0.46 0.43, AC on-line, battery charging: 100% (4:47)

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Subject: Re: New testing packages
From: Peter Peltonen 
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BTW: I just a found a quite nice looking apt repositry for all kinds of
audio apps at

http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/

Peter


On Thu, 2002-09-19 at 23:28, Angles Puglisi wrote:
> Matthias Saou (matthias@rpmforge.net) wrote*:
> >- I've rebuilt a new "alsaplayer" package based on Angle's one.
> 
> Cool, one less package to maintain :)
> 
> One interesting thing about alsaplayer is that RedHat's XMMS package in RH8 will
> probably not play mp3 files. But alsaplayer does play mp3s "out of the box".
> 
> Also, they are developing rapidly in their CVS and looks like their next version
> of alsaplaer will be pretty cool, but I have no idea when it will be ready.
> 
> --
> That's "angle" as in geometry.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> RPM-List mailing list 
> http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list




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On Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:40:55 +0200
Matthias Saou  wrote:

# But as it's the primary mailer I use, you can be sure that as soon
# as it's updated to 0.8.3, I'll update my build! :-)

It got updated (;

-- 
Jesse Keating
j2Solutions.net
Mondo DevTeam (www.mondorescue.org)

Was I helpful?  Let others know:
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From: Brent Welch 
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I need to experiment with ripping out all my "sophisticated" cut/paste
code.  This is mostly historical accident from dealing with very early
versions of Tk, and the emacs "cutbuffer", and other wierd junk.
You can, too, by hacking upon seditBind.tcl appropriately.

>>>Hal DeVore said:
 > 
 > 
 > >>>>> On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, "Tony" == Tony Nugent wrote:
 > 
 >   Tony> I can't even mark text in an exmh message window and then
 >   Tony> paste it into a terminal window, the cut buffer seems to
 >   Tony> be completely empty (and its previous contents are no
 >   Tony> longer there either).
 > 
 > Brent confessed recently that he had tried to subvert the X
 > model(s) of copy and paste.  Not in those words... but that
 > was how I read it. ;)
 > 
 > I have a lot of trouble copying and pasting from or to exmh 
 > across a VNC link (from things in the vncviewer to things not in 
 > it and vice versa).  As long as I stick to apps being "normally" 
 > displayed on my X server I don't have much of a problem.
 > 
 > My recollection from my X programming days is that the X model,
 > like everything in X, is more complex than the human brain can
 > handle.  It also is very different from the MS-Windows model.
 > And I get the feeling that Tk tries to "unify" those two models
 > and fails.  Not sure what the exmh-specific contribution to the 
 > confusion is, frankly.
 > 
 > --Hal
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > _______________________________________________
 > Exmh-users mailing list
 > Exmh-users@redhat.com
 > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/exmh-users

--
Brent Welch
Software Architect, Panasas Inc
Pioneering the World's Most Scalable and Agile Storage Network
www.panasas.com
welch@panasas.com



_______________________________________________
Exmh-users mailing list
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To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Re: bad focus/click behaviours
In-Reply-To: <200209131705.g8DH5Or30284@lin12.triumf.ca>
References: <200209131130.g8DBUZL24217@hobbit.linuxworks.com.au.nospam>
    <200209131705.g8DH5Or30284@lin12.triumf.ca>
Comments: In-reply-to Rick Baartman  message
    dated "Fri, 13 Sep 2002 10:05:23 -0700."
From: Brent Welch 
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It's all here in these 10 lines, otherwise known as the
"I'll try my damnest to paste something" procedure:

# Return the current selection (from any window) or cut buffer 0.
proc Text_Selection {} {
    if [catch {selection get} sel] {
        if [catch {selection get -selection CLIPBOARD} sel] {
            if [catch {cutbuffer get 0} sel] {
                return ""
            }
        }
    }
    return $sel
}

This is in textSelection.tcl, and is what exmh uses to find text to paste.
It is that last "cutbuffer get" that is wacky, because exmh sticks its
own deletions into that little know stash, and is probably the only
application on the planet that still looks there.  We should probably
just disable that - try this variant:

proc Text_Selection {} {
    if [catch {selection get} sel] {
        if [catch {selection get -selection CLIPBOARD} sel] {
            return ""
        }
    }
    return $sel
}

Everything funnels through here, so you just need to hack this one spot.


>>>Rick Baartman said:
 > I've never understood the mouse buffer operation with exmh either. Here's th
     e 
 > behaviour I have. I have exmh and XEmacs windows up, and a terminal window. 
     (I 
 > also have gnome1.4 running and enlightenment as wm.) I select text in the ex
     mh 
 > window and while it is highlighted, I can paste into anything else. If I sel
     ect 
 > it and then click so the highlighting is off, then what I paste is not the 
 > recently-selected text in exmh, but an old selection. If I select in XEmacs 
     and 
 > leave it highlighted, I can paste it into exmh sedit window; but if it is no
      
 > longer highlighted, what I paste is an old selection. I can live with this 
 > behaviour except for one additional thing. If nothing is highlighted, then w
     hat 
 > I paste into exmh is different from what I paste into other windows. To be m
     ore 
 > specific, here's what gets pasted if nothing is highlighted:
 > 
 > Application       What gets pasted
 > 
 > XEmacs            whatever was last selected unless it was last selected in 
     exmh
 > xterm             same as XEmacs
 > AbiWord           nothing
 > Nedit             nothing
 > sedit             Whatever was last highlighted in sedit and overwritten
 > 
 > The last needs some amplification. If I highlight something in sedit, then 
 > obviously that's what gets pasted. If the highlighting is off, then what get
     s 
 > pasted is NOT what was last highlighted in sedit, but what was last highligh
     ted 
 > and typed over (I have "Type Kills SEL" on.).
 > 
 > It seems that exmh and sedit are the oddballs here. Very often when I try to
      
 > paste something in sedit I end up muttering WTF??
 > 
 > --
 > rick
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > _______________________________________________
 > Exmh-users mailing list
 > Exmh-users@redhat.com
 > https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/exmh-users

--
Brent Welch
Software Architect, Panasas Inc
Pioneering the World's Most Scalable and Agile Storage Network
www.panasas.com
welch@panasas.com



_______________________________________________
Exmh-users mailing list
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To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Re: bad focus/click behaviours
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>>>Hal DeVore said:
 >     "Brent said in his book"
 >     This Paste function can be convenient, but it turns out that
 >     users still need to keep track of the difference between the
 >     two selections.  If a user only understands the CLIPBOARD,
 >     then the user of PRIMARY is only surprising.  I learned that
 >     it is best to have a separate paste user action for the two
 >     selections.  The convention is that  sets
 >     the insert point and inserts the PRIMARY selection. ... The
 >     <> event (e.g., the Paste key) simply inserts the
 >     CLIPBOARD selection at the current insert point. ...

Yeah, I learned by hearing exmh users scream in agony.  Sorry about
all that.  We should be able to clean this up.  If you grep for
"bind" in seditBind you quickly find the Text_Selection proc
I described in the previous email.

--
Brent Welch
Software Architect, Panasas Inc
Pioneering the World's Most Scalable and Agile Storage Network
www.panasas.com
welch@panasas.com



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To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Re: bad focus/click behaviours
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>>>"Kevin Oberman" said:
 > It did for me, but I am not willing to say it is not a tcl/tk issue as
 > other apps seemed to work OK for cut and paste and Tk does its
 > clipboard stuff a bit differently than most toolkits. So I'm not
 > about to place blame. Just reporting my experience.

One more salvo on X and cut/paste.  X specifies at least two *mechanisms*
for cut/paste, but as usual mandates no *policy*.  Windows and Macintosh
have a slightly different mechanism and one uniform policy.  I'm quite
sure that Tk implements all PRIMARY and CLIPBOARD selections accurately.
The PRIMARY selection is the one that is tied to the visible selection
on your X display.  The CLIPBOARD selection is the one with the explicit
Copy step, and is the same as what you have on Windows and Macintosh.
However, exmh throws in support for the cutbuffer mechanism, which is
another archaic mechanism supported at one point (perhaps still today)
by versions of emacs.  Exmh has a policy that tries to unify all these
mechanisms under one umbrella, and by all reports it is not that great.

I would encourage folks to play with those 10 lines of code in
Text_Selection and report what works well for them.  We may come up
with 8 lines that work for everyone, or perhaps introduce yet another
setting that lets folks choose between a few useful models.  Of course,
that's an admission of policy failure, but I'm willing to do that.

--
Brent Welch
Software Architect, Panasas Inc
Pioneering the World's Most Scalable and Agile Storage Network
www.panasas.com
welch@panasas.com



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From: Robert Elz 
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    Date:        Sun, 22 Sep 2002 22:21:49 -0700
    From:        Brent Welch 
    Message-ID:  <200209230521.BAA11218@blackcomb.panasas.com>

  | I would encourage folks to play with those 10 lines of code in
  | Text_Selection and report what works well for them.  We may come up
  | with 8 lines that work for everyone, or perhaps introduce yet another
  | setting that lets folks choose between a few useful models.  Of course,
  | that's an admission of policy failure, but I'm willing to do that.

I actually think you're looking in the wrong place.   I, at least,
have almost no problems with the choice of what gets pasted, or
selected, that stuff (for me, if perhaps not users of some gnome variant,
which appraently has been fixed anyway) all seems to work just fine.

The problem is that a button 1 click clears the selection (PRIMARY)
where it shouldn't - the previous selection should only be cleared
when there's something else to replace it (even if the highlighting
of what is selected is removed).     Try this in any other ramdom
application (from xterm to netscape) and see how it works.  There
normally is *no* (mouse based) way to actually clear the primary
selection (that is, set it to be a null string).

Then, because of the "if I get asked for the selection value, I will
find something" behaviour, if you click (intending to set the insert
point, the way most other GUI's operate), and then paste, because the
PRIMARY is clear, but exmh still owns the selection, because nothing
else has taken it, it does and finds some other ramdom stuff, from
either the clipboard or cut buffer, which tends to be something that was
deleted back in the ancient past, and pastes that.

That behaviour, to me anyway, is the real issue.

Once that gets fixed, we can switch back to operating the normal
"select stuff, click at new insert point, paste" mode of operation
that almost everyone expects to work (whether the "select stuff"
is somewhere in one of the exmh windows, or elsewhere).

kre

ps: this message is from my experience as a exmh user only, I've never
really understood enough about X and selections to go gazing at that
part of the code and see how it all really operates.



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To: Scott Lipcon 
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Subject: Re: traceback in new exmh
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--==_Exmh_1988991284P
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

> From:  Scott Lipcon 
> Date:  Sun, 22 Sep 2002 22:58:16 -0400
>
> I just updated to the latest CVS - I had been running a build from June.  
> Hitting the Flist button gives the following traceback:
> 
> syntax error in expression "int(17+1+(222-)*(19-17-2)/(224-))"
>     while executing
> "expr int($minLine+1+($msgid-$minMsg)*($maxLine-$minLine-2)/($maxMsg-$minMs
> g))"
>     (procedure "Ftoc_FindMsg" line 57)
>     invoked from within
> "Ftoc_FindMsg $i"
>     (procedure "Ftoc_ShowSequences" line 16)
>     invoked from within
> "Ftoc_ShowSequences $F"
>     (procedure "ScanFolder" line 81)
>     invoked from within
> "ScanFolder inbox 0"
>     invoked from within
> "time [list ScanFolder $F $adjustDisplay"
>     (procedure "Scan_Folder" line 2)
>     invoked from within
> "Scan_Folder $exmh(folder) $ftoc(showNew)"
>     (procedure "Inc_PresortFinish" line 7)
>     invoked from within
> "Inc_PresortFinish"
>     invoked from within
> ".fops.flist invoke"
>     ("uplevel" body line 1)
>     invoked from within
> "uplevel #0 [list $w invoke]"
>     (procedure "tkButtonUp" line 7)
>     invoked from within
> "tkButtonUp .fops.flist
> "
>     (command bound to event)
> 
> 
> It seems to only happen in a folder with no unseen messages.
> 
> Chris, is this related to your recent changes?

Curious.  I changed the arguments to Ftoc_ShowSequences to drop the folder 
argument and instead have an optional msgids argument.  Somehow your version 
of ScanFolder is still trying to pass $F.  You seem to have the latest 
ftoc.tcl (1.36), but not the latest scan.tcl (1.27).

I don't know how that happened, but try getting your source tree completely 
up to date.

Chris

-- 
Chris Garrigues                 http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/
virCIO                          http://www.virCIO.Com
716 Congress, Suite 200
Austin, TX  78701		+1 512 374 0500

  World War III:  The Wrong-Doers Vs. the Evil-Doers.




--==_Exmh_1988991284P
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Exmh version 2.2_20000822 06/23/2000

iD8DBQE9jygSK9b4h5R0IUIRAix6AJ9CorKpwn/5KatPB2QytCyr1mVP5QCfd84d
CBV9usxWABobTcDTVHm8fLY=
=xJhj
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--==_Exmh_1988991284P--



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Subject: Re: traceback in new exmh
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Oops - turns out i wasn't careful installing it, so the exmh(library)
variable was pointing at my old installation.  I'm surprised it worked
as well as it did.

In any case, I removed the old library directory, and edited exmh,
exmh-bg, exmh-strip, etc to point at the right one.  Now I'm getting
another traceback on startup:

can't read "mhPriv(pubseq,family,cur)": no such variable
    while executing
"MhSeq $folder $seq add $mhPriv(pubseq,$folder,$seq) [MhSeqExpand
$folder $msgids"
    (procedure "MhReadSeqs" line 73)
    invoked from within
"MhReadSeqs $folder seqs"
    (procedure "Mh_Sequences" line 2)
    invoked from within
"Mh_Sequences $folder"
    (procedure "Flist_UnseenUpdate" line 4)
    invoked from within
"Flist_UnseenUpdate $folder"
    (procedure "FolderChange" line 51)
    invoked from within
"FolderChange family {Msg_Show cur}"
    invoked from within
"time [list  FolderChange $folder $msgShowProc"
    (procedure "Folder_Change" line 3)
    invoked from within
"Folder_Change $exmh(folder)"
    (procedure "Exmh" line 101)
    invoked from within
"Exmh"
    ("after" script)


+family is the folder I was in when I quit exmh.

I'm on a remote display right now, and its really slow.  I'll have to
play with it more tonight when I get home to see if there are any
other problems. 

Scott

> > From:  Scott Lipcon 
> > Date:  Sun, 22 Sep 2002 22:58:16 -0400
> >
> > I just updated to the latest CVS - I had been running a build from June.  
> > Hitting the Flist button gives the following traceback:
> > 
> > syntax error in expression "int(17+1+(222-)*(19-17-2)/(224-))"
> >     while executing
> > "expr int($minLine+1+($msgid-$minMsg)*($maxLine-$minLine-2)/($maxMsg-$minMs
> > g))"
> >     (procedure "Ftoc_FindMsg" line 57)
> >     invoked from within
> > "Ftoc_FindMsg $i"
> >     (procedure "Ftoc_ShowSequences" line 16)
> >     invoked from within
> > "Ftoc_ShowSequences $F"
> >     (procedure "ScanFolder" line 81)
> >     invoked from within
> > "ScanFolder inbox 0"
> >     invoked from within
> > "time [list ScanFolder $F $adjustDisplay"
> >     (procedure "Scan_Folder" line 2)
> >     invoked from within
> > "Scan_Folder $exmh(folder) $ftoc(showNew)"
> >     (procedure "Inc_PresortFinish" line 7)
> >     invoked from within
> > "Inc_PresortFinish"
> >     invoked from within
> > ".fops.flist invoke"
> >     ("uplevel" body line 1)
> >     invoked from within
> > "uplevel #0 [list $w invoke]"
> >     (procedure "tkButtonUp" line 7)
> >     invoked from within
> > "tkButtonUp .fops.flist
> > "
> >     (command bound to event)
> > 
> > 
> > It seems to only happen in a folder with no unseen messages.
> > 
> > Chris, is this related to your recent changes?
> 
> Curious.  I changed the arguments to Ftoc_ShowSequences to drop the folder 
> argument and instead have an optional msgids argument.  Somehow your version 
> of ScanFolder is still trying to pass $F.  You seem to have the latest 
> ftoc.tcl (1.36), but not the latest scan.tcl (1.27).
> 
> I don't know how that happened, but try getting your source tree completely 
> up to date.
> 
> Chris
> 
> -- 
> Chris Garrigues                 http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/
> virCIO                          http://www.virCIO.Com
> 716 Congress, Suite 200
> Austin, TX  78701		+1 512 374 0500
> 
>   World War III:  The Wrong-Doers Vs. the Evil-Doers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --==_Exmh_1988991284P
> Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Exmh version 2.2_20000822 06/23/2000
> 
> iD8DBQE9jygSK9b4h5R0IUIRAix6AJ9CorKpwn/5KatPB2QytCyr1mVP5QCfd84d
> CBV9usxWABobTcDTVHm8fLY=
> =xJhj
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> --==_Exmh_1988991284P--
> 



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--==_Exmh_2018282504P
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

> From:  Chris Garrigues 
> Date:  Mon, 23 Sep 2002 09:41:22 -0500
>
> > From:  Scott Lipcon 
> > Date:  Sun, 22 Sep 2002 22:58:16 -0400
> >
> > I just updated to the latest CVS - I had been running a build from June. 
>  
> > Hitting the Flist button gives the following traceback:
> > 
> > syntax error in expression "int(17+1+(222-)*(19-17-2)/(224-))"
> >     while executing
> > "expr int($minLine+1+($msgid-$minMsg)*($maxLine-$minLine-2)/($maxMsg-$minMs
> > g))"
> >     (procedure "Ftoc_FindMsg" line 57)
> >     invoked from within
> > "Ftoc_FindMsg $i"
> >     (procedure "Ftoc_ShowSequences" line 16)
> >     invoked from within
> > "Ftoc_ShowSequences $F"
> >     (procedure "ScanFolder" line 81)
> >     invoked from within
> > "ScanFolder inbox 0"
> >     invoked from within
> > "time [list ScanFolder $F $adjustDisplay"
> >     (procedure "Scan_Folder" line 2)
> >     invoked from within
> > "Scan_Folder $exmh(folder) $ftoc(showNew)"
> >     (procedure "Inc_PresortFinish" line 7)
> >     invoked from within
> > "Inc_PresortFinish"
> >     invoked from within
> > ".fops.flist invoke"
> >     ("uplevel" body line 1)
> >     invoked from within
> > "uplevel #0 [list $w invoke]"
> >     (procedure "tkButtonUp" line 7)
> >     invoked from within
> > "tkButtonUp .fops.flist
> > "
> >     (command bound to event)
> > 
> > 
> > It seems to only happen in a folder with no unseen messages.
> > 
> > Chris, is this related to your recent changes?
> 
> Curious.  I changed the arguments to Ftoc_ShowSequences to drop the folder 
> argument and instead have an optional msgids argument.  Somehow your version 
> of ScanFolder is still trying to pass $F.  You seem to have the latest 
> ftoc.tcl (1.36), but not the latest scan.tcl (1.27).
> 
> I don't know how that happened, but try getting your source tree completely 
> up to date.

Actually, I take that back.  You're not running the latest ftoc.tcl either.

It probably is my bug, but it's in code that's been changed since you last 
updated from CVS (Saturday), so please update and let's see if the problem is 
still there.

Chris

-- 
Chris Garrigues                 http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/
virCIO                          http://www.virCIO.Com
716 Congress, Suite 200
Austin, TX  78701		+1 512 374 0500

  World War III:  The Wrong-Doers Vs. the Evil-Doers.




--==_Exmh_2018282504P
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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Comment: Exmh version 2.2_20000822 06/23/2000

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--==_Exmh_2018282504P--



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> From:  Scott Lipcon 
> Date:  Mon, 23 Sep 2002 10:54:19 -0400
>
> Oops - turns out i wasn't careful installing it, so the exmh(library)
> variable was pointing at my old installation.  I'm surprised it worked
> as well as it did.
> 
> In any case, I removed the old library directory, and edited exmh,
> exmh-bg, exmh-strip, etc to point at the right one.  Now I'm getting
> another traceback on startup:
> 
> can't read "mhPriv(pubseq,family,cur)": no such variable
>     while executing
> "MhSeq $folder $seq add $mhPriv(pubseq,$folder,$seq) [MhSeqExpand
> $folder $msgids"
>     (procedure "MhReadSeqs" line 73)
>     invoked from within
> "MhReadSeqs $folder seqs"
>     (procedure "Mh_Sequences" line 2)
>     invoked from within
> "Mh_Sequences $folder"
>     (procedure "Flist_UnseenUpdate" line 4)
>     invoked from within
> "Flist_UnseenUpdate $folder"
>     (procedure "FolderChange" line 51)
>     invoked from within
> "FolderChange family {Msg_Show cur}"
>     invoked from within
> "time [list  FolderChange $folder $msgShowProc"
>     (procedure "Folder_Change" line 3)
>     invoked from within
> "Folder_Change $exmh(folder)"
>     (procedure "Exmh" line 101)
>     invoked from within
> "Exmh"
>     ("after" script)
> 
> 
> +family is the folder I was in when I quit exmh.

That shouldn't have been able to happen, but I've just made the code slightly 
more bullet proof.
-- 
Chris Garrigues                 http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/
virCIO                          http://www.virCIO.Com
716 Congress, Suite 200
Austin, TX  78701		+1 512 374 0500

  World War III:  The Wrong-Doers Vs. the Evil-Doers.




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> From:  Scott Lipcon 
> Date:  Mon, 23 Sep 2002 17:49:47 -0400
>
> Chris, 
> 
> I'm home now, and this copy of exmh is pretty bad -  I'm running from
> CVS on Sunday night - the only change since then was the one you made
> this morning for "bulletproofing in MhReadSeqs".
> 
> I run exmh, and I can visably see it count up the number of unseen
> messages as it looks through the folders - I have about 3000 unseen
> messages in maybe 10 or 12 folders.    It takes a few seconds for all
> of the folders in the fcache to turn blue.  

This is true...it's now looking at more than just unseen, so it takes a little 
while (in the background) to build the sequences window.  There is probably 
some tuning possible in this area.

> In +inbox, I have 4 unread messages.  They aren't blue, they are
> white background with a normal colored font.

I changed the default display of unseen messages from a foreground of blue to 
a background of white to make it possible to see what other sequences unseen 
messages may be in.  I *did* ask Brent before I did it.  If you like the old 
behavior, the old lines are still in app-defaults-color, but commented out.

> If I click on a message, I get the following traceback:
> 
> invalid command name "Mh_MarkSeen"
>     while executing
> "Mh_MarkSeen $exmh(folder) $msgid"
>     (procedure "Hook_MsgShow_update_unseen" line 5)
>     invoked from within
> "$cmd $mhProfile(path)/$exmh(folder)/$msgid mimeHdr"
>     (procedure "MsgShow" line 23)
>     invoked from within
> "MsgShow $msgid"
>     (procedure "MsgChange" line 18)
>     invoked from within
> "MsgChange 66 show"
>     invoked from within
> "time [list MsgChange $msgid $show"
>     (procedure "Msg_Change" line 3)
>     invoked from within
> "Msg_Change $msgNum $show"
>     (procedure "Msg_Pick" line 8)
>     invoked from within
> "Msg_Pick $lineno show"
>     (procedure "FtocRangeEnd" line 12)
>     invoked from within
> "FtocRangeEnd [lindex [split [.ftoc.t index current] .] 0] 0"
>     (command bound to event)

This is because of your Hook_MsgShow_update_unseen which is calling a function 
which no longer exists.

I suspect you need
	Seq_Del $exmh(folder) unseen $msgid
now instead of 
	Mh_MarkSeen $exmh(folder) $msgid

> It appears that the message does get marked as seen though, as it
> loses the white background, and nmh reports the same.  
> 
> If I click the flist button, it zero's the unseen count, and then
> there is again a visible delay as it counts up all the unseen 
> messages - maybe 3-4 seconds.
> 
> I really think my installation is OK now, but if this behavior is just
> really strange I'll blow everything away and reinstall.  I'm happy to
> spend some time helping to track this down, I don't really need exmh.
> I'm comfortable enough using nmh.
> 
> Scott
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Exmh-workers mailing list
> Exmh-workers@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/exmh-workers

-- 
Chris Garrigues                 http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/
virCIO                          http://www.virCIO.Com
716 Congress, Suite 200
Austin, TX  78701		+1 512 374 0500

  World War III:  The Wrong-Doers Vs. the Evil-Doers.




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> From:  Scott Lipcon 
> Date:  Mon, 23 Sep 2002 22:35:05 -0400
>
> The speed is a problem for sure - It takes a long time to do the
> rescanning of sequences (I associate it with hitting the 'flist'
> button, or when my background flist goes off).    I'm running on a
> pretty fast system (Athlon 1700+, 512Mb RAM, 10k RPM ultra SCSI disk)
> and hitting flist used to take no more than a second.  The big
> difference might just be perception, because the the old code just
> updated all the folders (count + color) all at once, instead of making
> it look like there is 0 unseen, then counting its way back up.  
> 
> I doubt I'll have much time in the immediate future to hack at this,
> but if I do - can you suggest areas that might be the best to
> optimize?   If not, do you think we can put in some preferences to
> disable some of the more intensive features?   I'd rather disable all
> the sequence support (except unseen, of course) and have reasonable
> speed.   I suspect people on slow machines would find the current
> state unusable.

If I knew where the problem was, I'd fix it myself.

Finding it is probably more work than the actual fix.

> > 
> > This is because of your Hook_MsgShow_update_unseen which is calling a fun
> ctio
> > n 
> > which no longer exists.
> > 
> > I suspect you need
> > 	Seq_Del $exmh(folder) unseen $msgid
> > now instead of 
> > 	Mh_MarkSeen $exmh(folder) $msgid
> > 
> 
> Thanks.  I'm not sure I'll need it with the new sequence code, but I
> might.  Does your new code commit sequences immediately?  The old code
> didn't, so I put that in to help keep my mh and exmh windows in sync.

Yes it does.

Chris

-- 
Chris Garrigues                 http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/
virCIO                          http://www.virCIO.Com
716 Congress, Suite 200
Austin, TX  78701		+1 512 374 0500

  World War III:  The Wrong-Doers Vs. the Evil-Doers.




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To: Ted Cabeen 
Cc: exmh-workers@example.com
Subject: Re: Minor feature request
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    <20020924170024.1935256D@gray.impulse.net> .
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> How easy would it be to code a menu item that marks as read all messages 
> before the current message?  I often have problems reading heavy-traffic 
> mailing lists in exmh because I want to read only a subset of a lists 
> messages, but I lose track of where I was in the particular folder.  
> 
> This could also be coded more generally in the new sequences code as a way to 
> remove all messages before current from a particular sequence.

Easy.

First, you'll have to excuse me as I'm still using 2.3.1 (*), so, this
may not play well with recent changes.  (I did look at 2.5.1, too).
And, I just did this off the top of my head (I wanted to see if it
(**) still worked), so this is somewhat untested.

Adding a menu entry is trivial; add this to your ~/.exmh/exmh-defaults:

*Fops.more.m.uentrylist:	ketchup
*Fops.more.m.l_ketchup:		Catch-up all b4 cur
*Fops.more.m.c_ketchup:	 	My_Mark2CurSeen

Then you just need to provide the source for My_Mark2CurSeen and 
arrange for Exmh to include it (put it in your ~/.tk/exmh directory
in your user.tcl; or in pick.patch if you enable the "source hook"
under Prefs->Hacking Support)

It's going to look something like this:

proc My_Mark2CurSeen {} {
    global exmh pick msg
    Exmh_Status "Clearing unseen up to cur..." red
    Mh_SetCur $exmh(folder) $msg(id)
    set pick(ids) [...get message ids for "pick 1-cur"...]
    busy PickMarkSeen
    Exmh_Status ok blue
}

(that's based upon the guts of Pick_MarkSeen)

You need to fill in the code for the [...get...] section; I ran out of
time!

John

(*) "It just works" (tm)
(**) "it" == my head



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1216.95e5ecab7fd902419ab5b4f95ef0d4bb.eml000066400000000000000000000110001444326627400314710ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-workers-admin@redhat.com  Thu Sep 26 11:00:00 2002
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To: Chris Garrigues 
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Subject: Re: Exmh && speed
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     of
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cwg-dated-1033065967.2dc492@DeepEddy.Com said:
> From:  Chris Garrigues 
> Date:  Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:07:01 -0500 >
> Here's a fix that I think will make a real difference.
> 
> Ftoc_ShowSequences needs to be able to be called with an optional
> list of msgids 
> to update and if it's called that way it only removes or adds tags
> for those 
> messages.  Then in places like MsgChange, we only update the
> messages which have
> changed.
> 
> Also, a separate Ftoc_ShowSequence function which only updates the
> display of 
> one sequence should be written which also takes an optional list of
> msgids.
>   
> In a place like MsgChange, it would only need to update the cur
> sequence.
> 
> If nobody else gets to it, I'll do this when I get back.

> I just checked this in.  Let me know if it helps.

> Chris 

Congratulations Chris, you just made the hall of fame!! Speed is much better now. I haven't done any tests, but I'd say that latency dropped 2-3 times and we're back in good shape again.

Well done!

/Anders



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1217.df546955abccc6542862dfdf365d4d0f.eml000066400000000000000000000072601444326627400313560ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-workers-admin@redhat.com  Thu Sep 26 11:00:03 2002
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To: exmh-workers@example.com
Subject: Bug report: msg n+1 marked read
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It seems that something changed during the last 3-4 weeks.

1) In a folder, msgs 1-n is read, n=current, n upwards is unread.
2) change to another folder
3) change back to the original folder and you'll see msg n+1 being 
highlighted as current for a split second, that it changes back to 
n=current.

Kind of annoying since it marks msg n+1 as read.

/Anders



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1218.190735ca00def4ad757ea5786115f832.eml000066400000000000000000000133021444326627400310360ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-workers-admin@redhat.com  Thu Sep 26 16:29:56 2002
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Subject: Re: Bug report: msg n+1 marked read
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--==_Exmh_-1577134449P
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> From:  Anders Eriksson 
> Date:  Wed, 25 Sep 2002 23:22:26 +0200
>
> 
> It seems that something changed during the last 3-4 weeks.
> 
> 1) In a folder, msgs 1-n is read, n=current, n upwards is unread.
> 2) change to another folder
> 3) change back to the original folder and you'll see msg n+1 being 
> highlighted as current for a split second, that it changes back to 
> n=current.
> 
> Kind of annoying since it marks msg n+1 as read.

I haven't seen what you describe, but I just saw something close to what you 
describe.  I think the message that's being incorrectly highlighted as current
is related to the current message in the other folder rather than being n+1.

I'll have to investigate a bit more to identify and fix the bug, but there is 
something going on here.

Chris

-- 
Chris Garrigues                 http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/
virCIO                          http://www.virCIO.Com
716 Congress, Suite 200
Austin, TX  78701		+1 512 374 0500

  World War III:  The Wrong-Doers Vs. the Evil-Doers.




--==_Exmh_-1577134449P
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Exmh version 2.2_20000822 06/23/2000

iD8DBQE9kxPXK9b4h5R0IUIRAq5fAJ43lzUupVkBkj6iJ5Rn7BsBQH5AywCfTAl2
TJnhSBCb4C+1vyt/QjnVOOQ=
=94lB
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--==_Exmh_-1577134449P--



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1219.c4cc23fc1dcc1809a3dc65c58fc51d65.eml000066400000000000000000000175111444326627400314170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Mon Sep 30 10:45:20 2002
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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--Multipart_Fri_Sep_27_14:42:27_2002-1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

i'm a very happy user of exmh, but i'm paranoid also :-)
therefore i'm not too happy with exmh caching my pgp passphrases.

usually i use a relatively secure tool called 'quintuple agent' 
 to store my passphrases,
and i've just added the few lines of code to exmh which allow for such
external caches.

the patch is attached, it is against version 2.5-1 (debian), and the
files modified are extrasInit.tcl and pgpExec.tcl.

i've added three new preferences in the 'general pgp' section, which
allow everybody to use his/her favourite external tool to get the
passphrase (everything which spits out the phrase on stdout is ok).

i'd be happy if somebody with cvs access thinks that this stuff 
is worth to be added and does so; apart from that i'm happy for 
suggestions, comments or critique (mind you, i'm not exactly a special 
friend of tcl so my code may leave things to be desired...)

regards
az


--Multipart_Fri_Sep_27_14:42:27_2002-1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="exmh-patch"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

--- /usr/lib/exmh/extrasInit.tcl	Sat Mar  2 17:26:38 2002
+++ ./extrasInit.tcl	Fri Sep 27 14:22:13 2002
@@ -642,6 +642,18 @@
     {pgp(passtimeout) pgpPassTimeout 60 {Minutes to cache PGP passphrase}
 "Exmh will clear its memory of PGP passphrases after
 this time period, in minutes, has elapsed." }
+{pgp(extpass) pgpExtPass OFF {Use external passphrase cache}
+"If this is enabled, then exmh will use an external program to retrieve 
+your passphrase when needed. pgpKeepPass and pgpPassTimeout will 
+be ignored."}
+{pgp(getextcmd) pgpGetExtCmd {/usr/bin/q-client get %s} {Method to query external passphrase cache}
+"This external program is used to retrieve the passphrase for your key,
+if pgpExtPass is active. The passphrase is expected on stdout.
+The key id is substituted with %s (using format)." }
+{pgp(delextcmd) pgpDelExtCmd {/usr/bin/q-client delete %s} {Method to invalidate external passphrase cache}
+"This external program is used to delete the passphrase for your key
+from the external cache, if pgpExtPass is active. 
+The key id is substituted with %s (using format)." }
     }
 
     # Make sure we don't inherit a bad pgp(version) from a previous setup
--- /usr/lib/exmh/pgpExec.tcl	Sat Mar  2 17:26:39 2002
+++ ./pgpExec.tcl	Fri Sep 27 14:19:40 2002
@@ -647,6 +647,33 @@
 proc Pgp_GetPass { v key } {
     global pgp
 
+    if {[info exists pgp(extpass)] && [set pgp(extpass)] \
+	    && [info exists pgp(getextcmd)]} {
+	Exmh_Debug "Pgp_GetPass $v $key external"
+	set keyid [lindex $key 0]
+	set cmd [format $pgp(getextcmd) $keyid]
+	while (1) {
+	    Exmh_Debug "running cmd $cmd"
+	    if [ catch {exec sh -c "$cmd"} result ] {
+		Exmh_Debug "error running cmd: $result"
+		Exmh_Status "Error executing external cmd" warn
+		return {}
+	    } else {
+		if {[Pgp_Exec_CheckPassword $v $result $key]} {
+		    return $result
+		} else {
+		    Exmh_Debug "bad passphrase"
+		    if {[info exists pgp(delextcmd)]} {
+			Exmh_Debug "trying to invalidate bad passphrase"
+			if [catch {exec sh -c "[format $pgp(delextcmd) $keyid]"}] {
+			    Exmh_Debug "invalidation failed"
+			    return {}
+			}
+		    }
+		}
+	    }
+	}
+    } else {
     Exmh_Debug "Pgp_GetPass $v $key"
 
     if {[lsearch -glob [set pgp($v,privatekeys)] "[lindex $key 0]*"] < 0} {
@@ -695,6 +722,7 @@
             }
             return $password
         }
+	}
     }
 }
 

--Multipart_Fri_Sep_27_14:42:27_2002-1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

-- 
+ Alexander Zangerl + az@snafu.priv.at + DSA 42BD645D + (RSA 5B586291)
Kind of like my 404K fund, "wealth not found." -- shrox

--Multipart_Fri_Sep_27_14:42:27_2002-1--

------------=_1033130560-1199-5
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.ng"
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="signature.ng"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE9lFJBpy/2bEK9ZF0RAq/1AJwLmyZx/zs+FgJkmvcMeL57gewE6ACbBWj0
OYCcSYWXynxRpVtCbDE1R3A=
=T+T4
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

------------=_1033130560-1199-5--



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From: Paul Menage 
To: exmh-users@example.com
Subject: Re: Help! I've lost my exmh-unseen window!
Cc: pmenage@ensim.com
In-Reply-To: Your message of
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>
>	I'll have to try it with another window manager and see if I can
>get exmh to put it back inside of sane boundaries. I don't have this
>problem with any other windows, though. Just the exmhunseen window.
>

How about enabling the "Show unseen message count in folder cache"
option? It displays the number of unseen messages next to each folder name
(if greater than 0), so you don't really need the unseen window unless
you're using more sequences than just "unseen".

Paul



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>>>>> On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, "Paul" == Paul Menage wrote:

  Paul> so you don't really need the unseen window unless you're
  Paul> using more sequences than just "unseen".

I use a virtual window manager and keep the main exmh window and 
the detached folder list on one virtual desktop but the unseen 
window is set to show on all desktops.

Got no help for the problems, but just pointing out why some of 
us find the unseen window invaluable.


--Hal




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From: The Butterfly 
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In article  you write:
>>>> Patrick Salsbury writes:
>
>  Patrick> One of the features I really like about exmh is the
>  Patrick> ability to see which folders have unseen messages in
>  Patrick> them, but recently, it seems to have vanished into the
>  Patrick> bowels of my window manager in a place I can't get
>  Patrick> to. It claims to be running, but doesn't appear
>  Patrick> anywhere onscreen. (I'm using Enlightenment with a 2x2
>  Patrick> virtual desktop. I've tried dropping it to only 1
>  Patrick> screen. No help.)
>  Patrick>
>
>This may not help/work but I've discovered recently that
>Alt-middle-mouse pops up a list of all of my windows.  If I leave
>my mouse on the background, it lists Alt-middle-mouse as "Display
>Task List Menu".
>
>HTH,
>
>- Bill
	When I do that, it just moves my mouse to the very edge of a window
(probably trying to center it on the off-screen window in question.) 

	I'll have to try it with another window manager and see if I can
get exmh to put it back inside of sane boundaries. I don't have this
problem with any other windows, though. Just the exmhunseen window.

Pat



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In article  you write:
>>
>>	I'll have to try it with another window manager and see if I can
>>get exmh to put it back inside of sane boundaries. I don't have this
>>problem with any other windows, though. Just the exmhunseen window.
>>
>
>How about enabling the "Show unseen message count in folder cache"
>option? It displays the number of unseen messages next to each folder name
>(if greater than 0), so you don't really need the unseen window unless
>you're using more sequences than just "unseen".
>
>Paul
>
	As Hal noted, I like to have the unseen window visible in all
virtual desktops, even if the main window is minimized. However, I looked
through ALL the preferences menus, and didn't see anything resembling "Show
unseen message count in folder cache". Where is that? And in what version?
(I'm running v2.4 - 06/23/2000 - Creaky, I know.)

	I went into twm with no virtual desktops, and it came up just fine.
Going back to Enlightenment I saw the same behavior as before. Then I knew
it MUST be something in the window manager, so I went digging. in my 
~/.englightenment/...e_session-XXXXXX.snapshots.0 file I found all the
settings that E. uses for remembering border styles, positions, shaded
state, etc. 
	I have a 1600x1200 screen, and it kept putting my window at
1655x150 (AND had it shaded to boot, so it was tiny as well as offscreen!)
	Searching for 'unseen' in that file found this section:

NEW: exmh.Exmh
NAME: exmh
CLASS: Exmh
NEW: unseen.UnseenWin
NAME: unseen
CLASS: UnseenWin
DESKTOP: 0
RES: 1600 1200
WH: 114 173
XY: 1655 150 0 0
LAYER: 4
STICKY: 1
SKIPTASK: 0
SKIPWINLIST: 0
SKIPFOCUS: 0
SHADE: 2
BORDER: PAGER_LEFT_BLUE

	I changed:
XY: 1655 150 0 0  	to 
XY: 1455 150 0 0	so it would reappear in my viewable space,
restarted Enlightenment (CTRL-ALT-End) and then restarted exmh. Bingo!
There was my window! 

	I quickly told Englightenment to forget everything about that
window except is border style, and now have a sveldt little entry like so:

NEW: exmh.Exmh
NAME: exmh
CLASS: Exmh
NEW: unseen.UnseenWin
NAME: unseen
CLASS: UnseenWin
BORDER: PAGER_LEFT_BLUE

	Completely an Enlightenment problem, not exmh. (Though I wonder how
it got mixed up in the first place? I certainly can't move a window off
screen like that. Unless it was part way over then snapped offscreen when
shading.)

	Hmm. Weird. 

	Anyway, thanks for the suggestions, folks. Hopefully this will be
useful to someone scouting the archives in the future... :-) 



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1224.7917f240eb278ea2028d92515d8c3dbc.eml000066400000000000000000000112441444326627400311170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-workers-admin@redhat.com  Mon Sep 30 21:43:56 2002
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Subject: Working My_Mark2CurSeen
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After a bit of peeking through the exmh tcl and playing with tcl a bit, I got 
the "catchup unseen messages before cur" procedure working.  Here's the code 
for everybody and the list archives in case anyone wants it in the future.  
Thanks to John R. LoVerso for putting me on the right track.  

proc My_Mark2CurSeen {} {
    global exmh pick msg
    set results {}
    Exmh_Status "Clearing unseen up to cur..." red
    Mh_SetCur $exmh(folder) $msg(id)
    set unseen [Mh_Unseen $exmh(folder)]
    foreach elem $unseen {
         if { $elem < $msg(id) } {
            lappend results $elem
         }
    }
    set pick(ids) $results
    busy PickMarkSeen
    Exmh_Status ok blue
}

If you want to use this, stick it in your .tk/exmh directory, run auto_mkindex 
on it and add the following lines to your .exmh/exmh-defaults:
*Fops.more.m.uentrylist:        ketchup
*Fops.more.m.l_ketchup:         Catch-up all before current
*Fops.more.m.c_ketchup:         My_Mark2CurSeen

- -- 
Ted Cabeen           http://www.pobox.com/~secabeen            ted@impulse.net 
Check Website or Keyserver for PGP/GPG Key BA0349D2         secabeen@pobox.com
"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -F. Bacon  secabeen@cabeen.org
"Human kind cannot bear very much reality."-T.S.Eliot        cabeen@netcom.com


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>>>>> On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, "Ted" == Ted Cabeen wrote:

  Ted> Here's the code for everybody and the list archives in
  Ted> case anyone wants it in the future.

Very cool!  I vote for this being added to CVS, any objections?

--Hal




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1226.7d2cdef974037d299c744b765e792641.eml000066400000000000000000000104761444326627400310210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-workers-admin@redhat.com  Mon Sep 30 21:44:41 2002
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

In message <3703.1033415613@dimebox.bmc.com>, Hal DeVore writes:
>>>>>> On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, "Ted" == Ted Cabeen wrote:
>
>  Ted> Here's the code for everybody and the list archives in
>  Ted> case anyone wants it in the future.
>
>Very cool!  I vote for this being added to CVS, any objections?

Not from me, although you probably want to change the name of the procedure.  
:)

- -- 
Ted Cabeen           http://www.pobox.com/~secabeen            ted@impulse.net 
Check Website or Keyserver for PGP/GPG Key BA0349D2         secabeen@pobox.com
"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -F. Bacon  secabeen@cabeen.org
"Human kind cannot bear very much reality."-T.S.Eliot        cabeen@netcom.com


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    Date:        Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:53:33 -0500
    From:        Hal DeVore 
    Message-ID:  <3703.1033415613@dimebox.bmc.com>

  | I vote for this being added to CVS, any objections?

No, but using PickMarkSeen (and pick(ids)) as an alternative to
just doing

	Seq_Del $exmh(folder) $mhProfile(unseen-sequence) $results

seems unnecessary to me (that's all that PickMarkSeen does after all).
(That can be done via "busy")

Of course, the same is true of the badly named Pick_MarkSeen which has
nothing at all to do with "pick" except that it (ab)uses the pick(ids) var
in the same way.   (Its name would be hard to change unfortunately, as it
is known in app-defaults files for the "Catch Up Unseen" menu item, but
its implementation could certainly be fixed).

kre



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I apologize for not catching up to the current code in so long.

Now that I have I'm trying to resolve "breakage" and differences.

The unseen window seems to have been replaced with the sequences 
window.  While I appreciate the flexibility of the sequences 
window, the unseen window filled an important-to-me need:  It 
was tiny and could be set to show on all desktops of a virtual 
window manager without taking a lot of space.  Since my normal 
mode of operation involves two copies of exmh displaying on a 
1024x768 vnc session, screen space is at a premium.

As things stand now, I have a sequences window that shows a lot
more information than I need to have handy and takes up a lot 
more room than I can "spare".

I can see that I could like the new sequences window a lot for 
certain operations.  But I'd like a nice uncluttered, tiny 
window that _only_ shows me info on my unread mail.

One possibility that occurs to me would be a button or mouse
click that "shrinks" the Sequences window to show only the
sequences in the "always show" list.  And of course a way to 
expand it back.

--Hal




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1229.e662c283c2f313d577e186c1712b52df.eml000066400000000000000000000073271444326627400310510ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-workers-admin@redhat.com  Wed Oct  2 11:43:19 2002
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I've had this binding in my ~/.exmh/exmhbindings for years:

set {bindings(key,Flist_FindUnseen 1 ; Inc_PresortFinish)} 

After updating to the current code in CVS I get "bad key f" when 
I hit the "f" key.  I can open the Bindings... Commands window 
and define the binding.  It then works until I restart exmh.

I suspect a parsing problem/change.  I'll try to look into this 
tomorrow unless someone knows where the problem might be.

--Hal






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--==_Exmh_-2120603942P
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> From:  Hal DeVore 
> Date:  Tue, 01 Oct 2002 23:22:14 -0500
>
> I've had this binding in my ~/.exmh/exmhbindings for years:
> 
> set {bindings(key,Flist_FindUnseen 1 ; Inc_PresortFinish)} 
> 
> After updating to the current code in CVS I get "bad key f" when 
> I hit the "f" key.  I can open the Bindings... Commands window 
> and define the binding.  It then works until I restart exmh.
> 
> I suspect a parsing problem/change.  I'll try to look into this 
> tomorrow unless someone knows where the problem might be.

Flist_FindUnseen has changed to Flist_FindSeqs.  It takes the same arguments, 
but I changed the name because it looks for all the sequences, not just the 
unseen sequence.

Chris

-- 
Chris Garrigues                 http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/
virCIO                          http://www.virCIO.Com
716 Congress, Suite 200
Austin, TX  78701		+1 512 374 0500

  World War III:  The Wrong-Doers Vs. the Evil-Doers.




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1231.9a7db322df8f2bdf4eeb2d589cb51e34.eml000066400000000000000000000123461444326627400315050ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-workers-admin@redhat.com  Wed Oct  2 15:58:53 2002
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--==_Exmh_-2113882517P
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> From:  Hal DeVore 
> Date:  Tue, 01 Oct 2002 23:21:21 -0500
>
> One possibility that occurs to me would be a button or mouse
> click that "shrinks" the Sequences window to show only the
> sequences in the "always show" list.  And of course a way to 
> expand it back.

That's a pretty good idea.  I'm not sure I'll get to it any time soon.  (I 
already have a known bug reported on 9/25 that I haven't been able to get to.)

Chris

-- 
Chris Garrigues                 http://www.DeepEddy.Com/~cwg/
virCIO                          http://www.virCIO.Com
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  World War III:  The Wrong-Doers Vs. the Evil-Doers.




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1232.2e3d43a305269573c1d4bd6bc0b6b103.eml000066400000000000000000000105571444326627400310720ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-workers-admin@redhat.com  Wed Oct  2 15:58:49 2002
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I have a couple of small issues, and I'm not sure if their exmh issues
or my setup issues.

First, when I try and run exmh with wish from tk8.4.0 it seems to take
forever to start, but with wish from tk8.a.4 it starts in a snap.

Using the latest CVS, when I open exmh and the folder I'm in has unseen
messages and I hit next, exmh changes to the next folder with unseen messages
rather than to the first unseen in the current folder.

Finally, when I reach the end of the messages in a folder and go on to
the next unseen, exmh always goes back to inbox (which has no unseen
messages) rather than the next folder with unseen messages.  (When I 
goto next from inbox it does go where I would think it should go).

Just wanted to let you know what I'm seeing and find out if I'm expecting
some different than I should be.

Thanks for all the effort

Jim




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To: Chris Garrigues 
Cc: exmh-workers@example.com
Subject: Re: Unseen window versus Sequences Window
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>>>>> On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, "Chris" == Chris Garrigues wrote:

  Chris> I'm not sure I'll get to it any time soon.

Well, you have a pretty good idea of when I might get to it (the 
phrase hell freezes over comes to mind)... so whenever you can 
will certainly be fine.

Thanks for considering it.  In the meantime I've set the 
"minimum entry lines" to 1.  It certainly isn't going to make me 
go back to the old version.

--Hal




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1234.30168dbefeafcbbd7649c9153a182482.eml000066400000000000000000000126241444326627400312630ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-workers-admin@redhat.com  Wed Oct  2 15:59:26 2002
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--==_Exmh_-1581861840P
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On Wed, 02 Oct 2002 09:54:04 EDT, "J. W. Ballantine"   said:

> First, when I try and run exmh with wish from tk8.4.0 it seems to take
> forever to start, but with wish from tk8.a.4 it starts in a snap.

This sounds like something piggy in the 'flist' code - I'm seeing flist
in general taking 5-10 seconds.  Interesting that a different wish comes up
fast, there might be a borkedness in 8.4.

> Using the latest CVS, when I open exmh and the folder I'm in has unseen
> messages and I hit next, exmh changes to the next folder with unseen messages
> rather than to the first unseen in the current folder.

Hmm.. weirdness..

> Finally, when I reach the end of the messages in a folder and go on to
> the next unseen, exmh always goes back to inbox (which has no unseen
> messages) rather than the next folder with unseen messages.  (When I 
> goto next from inbox it does go where I would think it should go).

I've been seeing this as well - *usually* with inbox, but it's gotten
stuck on some other folders as well (I have procmail do rcvstore into folders
for me).
-- 
				Valdis Kletnieks
				Computer Systems Senior Engineer
				Virginia Tech


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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--==_Exmh_-1581861840P--



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1235.c0f0d9e39895355effd9a5f3df1ff4db.eml000066400000000000000000000100421444326627400315210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-workers-admin@redhat.com  Wed Oct  2 15:59:28 2002
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>>>>> On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, "Chris" == Chris Garrigues wrote:

  Chris> Flist_FindUnseen has changed to Flist_FindSeqs.

I guess I was sleepier than I thought.  I managed to cut and
paste the _right_ stuff from the app-defaults file into the
Bindings definition dialog without ever noticing that it was
different from what was in my exmhbindings file.

--Hal

P.S., can I get a pointer to a freeware Tcl/Tk debugger?




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From: Robert Elz 
To: Hal DeVore 
Cc: exmh-workers@example.com
Subject: Re: Another sequences window nit
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    Date:        Wed, 02 Oct 2002 11:39:13 -0500
    From:        Hal DeVore 
    Message-ID:  <9288.1033576753@dimebox.bmc.com>

  | Restarting exmh was necessary.

Probably not.   Next time try clicking on the folder name in the
sequences window for the sequence.   That is, request that sequence
be the one displayed in the FTOC.   If the sequence doesn't exist,
it will be cleaned up then.

Perhaps it would be nicer if flist would do it as well, but this
is effective enough.

kre



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Comments: In-reply-to Robert Elz  message dated "Tue,
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To: exmh-workers@example.com
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[I wrote this last night but it appears I never sent it... still 
haven't had time to dig in to it...]


>>>>> On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, "Robert" == Robert Elz wrote:

  Robert> No, but using PickMarkSeen (and pick(ids)) as an
  Robert> alternative to just doing

  Robert> Seq_Del $exmh(folder) $mhProfile(unseen-sequence) $results


Ah.  Neither Ted nor I were particularly up to date.  I pulled 
down the lates from CVS and am now running with it.  I miss the 
blue ftoc lines but I'll sort that out soon, iirc Chris said 
it's a simple resource change.

Ted's code to "ketchup" made use of some of the procs that went 
away in the sequence generalization.  I've fixed it up... almost 
and it looks like this now:

proc Cabeen_Mark2CurSeen {} {
    global exmh mhProfile msg
    set results {}
    Exmh_Status "Clearing unseen up to cur..." red
    Mh_SetCur $exmh(folder) $msg(id)
    set unseen [Mh_Sequence $exmh(folder) $mhProfile(unseen-sequence) ]
    foreach elem $unseen {
         if { $elem <= $msg(id) } {
            lappend results $elem
         }
    }
    busy Seq_Del $exmh(folder) $mhProfile(unseen-sequence) $results
    Exmh_Status ok blue
}


The "almost" is because it's not updating the highlighting on 
the ftoc.  I'm too tired to go figure out how to fix that just 
now and have to move on to other stuff.  If someone wants to 
forward me a clue feel free.

Now that I've got all of Chris' sequence stuff I discovered that 
my sequences are ... cluttered.

--Hal






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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1238.af17c6dc01076c3f5fd80b0aaf13b70a.eml000066400000000000000000000077331444326627400314010ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Mon Oct  7 22:40:37 2002
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Subject: Ringing bell on other computer
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From: Dag Nygren 
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Hi,

succeeded in ringing a bell anytime I get a mail
to my inbox (Not Mailing lists, spams etc.) by
using procmail to execute a "play clink.wav" on
the "right" mails.
Now my demands are growing ;-)
I use my laptop remotely very often and now I would
like the bell to sound on that when I am there.
I triedto use the KDE remote sound server and it works in
the tests, but when procmail runs it it doesn't, presumably
as it doesn't have the authorization to communicate with
the laptop, beeing another user?

Any hints.

BRGDS


-- 
Dag Nygren                               email: dag@newtech.fi
Oy Espoon NewTech Ab                     phone: +358 9 8024910
Tr�sktorpet 3                              fax: +358 9 8024916
02360 ESBO                              Mobile: +358 400 426312
FINLAND




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1239.4ac4f511de904aae73d8d5ead6f7fd70.eml000066400000000000000000000100111444326627400314740ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Tue Oct  8 10:55:11 2002
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To: exmh-users@example.com
Cc: dag@newtech.fi
Subject: Re: Ringing bell on other computer
In-Reply-To: Message from Hal DeVore  of
    "Mon, 07 Oct 2002 18:03:03 CDT."
    <6384.1034031783@dimebox.bmc.com>
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> 
> 
> >>>>> On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, "Dag" == Dag Nygren wrote:
> 
>   Dag> but when procmail runs it it doesn't, presumably as it
>   Dag> doesn't have the authorization to communicate with the
>   Dag> laptop, beeing another user?
> 
> I don't know anything about the KDE sound server but I'd guess 
> your problem is the "environment" in which procmail runs.  You 
> don't say what procmail is running from.  In my case, for 
> example, procmail is run from fetchmail which is run by a cron 
> job.

Sorry about that,
procmail is run by the qmail delivery agent to presort all mail
I get.
But anyway, I found an error message in procmail.log, which solved
the problem.
The following line in my delivery script seems to work fine now:

DISPLAY=:0.0 artsplay 

Thanks

Dag




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1256.53bfb1e9b31d6cf24a29203610bc28b2.eml000066400000000000000000000101261444326627400311520ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Mon Sep  2 13:15:13 2002
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HELP.
I had GPG working.
I updated from version gnupg-1.0.6 to gnupg-1.0.7.
This moved gpg from /usr/bin to /usr/local/bin and I changed the path
in the exmh 'executable'.

With that fix, EXMH knows I have GPG, and puts the line

	Check the signature with GnuPG

in messages with GnuPG signatures.  But punching the line ALWAYS
gives

        Signature made Thu Aug 29 00:27:17 2002 MDT using DSA key ID BDDF997A
        Can't check signature: public key not found

So, something else is missing.
Can somebody tell me what it is,- Ive tried grepping on everything
that I can think of with no luck at all.
-- 
                                        Reg.Clemens
                                        reg@dwf.com




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1259.d92f1723cffd8ab2d3987feec1904dfe.eml000066400000000000000000000075531444326627400315350ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Tue Oct  8 17:01:35 2002
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    <1034086124.18970.TMDA@deepeddy.vircio.com>
Comments: In-reply-to Chris Garrigues  message
    dated "Tue, 08 Oct 2002 09:08:43 -0500."
To: exmh-users@example.com, dag@newtech.fi
Subject: Re: Ringing bell on other computer
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From: Hal DeVore 
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BTW:  I remember messing about with such things long ago.  One 
problem I ran into was making sure that no attempt was made to 
play a sound when either:

a)  the screen was locked
  or
b)  no exmh was running.

Just something to think about, Dag.


--Hal




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1260.ed1791f5738995cd9420a9fc169be0d1.eml000066400000000000000000000111661444326627400311430ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Wed Oct  9 10:48:44 2002
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To: Chris Garrigues 
Cc: exmh-users@example.com, dag@newtech.fi, dag@newtech.fi
Subject: Re: Ringing bell on other computer
In-Reply-To: Message from Chris Garrigues
     of
    "Tue, 08 Oct 2002 09:08:43 CDT."
    <1034086124.18970.TMDA@deepeddy.vircio.com>
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> > > 
> > >   Dag> but when procmail runs it it doesn't, presumably as it
> > >   Dag> doesn't have the authorization to communicate with the
> > >   Dag> laptop, beeing another user?
> > > 
> > > I don't know anything about the KDE sound server but I'd guess 
> > > your problem is the "environment" in which procmail runs.  You 
> > > don't say what procmail is running from.  In my case, for 
> > > example, procmail is run from fetchmail which is run by a cron 
> > > job.
> > 
> > Sorry about that,
> > procmail is run by the qmail delivery agent to presort all mail
> > I get.
> > But anyway, I found an error message in procmail.log, which solved
> > the problem.
> > The following line in my delivery script seems to work fine now:
> > 
> > DISPLAY=:0.0 artsplay 
> 
> BTW, if you use exmhwrapper (found in the misc directory), you can generalize 
> this to
> 
> DISPLAY=`cat $HOME/.exmh/.display` artsplay 

Yes, but that probably means that you have to have exmh
running on the laptop to get the notification?
With exmh getting upset by two instances running at the
same time, this creates the problem that I cannot  run to the
closest compter to check out the new mail.

But thanks for the hint, I might use that for some other
hack ;-)

BRGDS

Dag





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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1261.edad140fb507fd35411ae458b009c39c.eml000066400000000000000000000102221444326627400312330ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Wed Oct  9 18:31:28 2002
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When I receive a message that has a line starting with "From ", it's
broken into two messages.  I get my mail from /var/spool/mail.  The
program that incorporates mail thinks that the "From " line starts a new
message.

My sysadmins have told me that the sending mail client is supposed to 
escape lines begining with "From ".  EXMH (2.5) doesn't do this.  Should 
it?  It appears that my MH is MH 6.8.  Does NMH fix this?

Jason D. M. Rennie
MIT AI Lab
jrennie@ai.mit.edu
(617) 253-5339
http://www.ai.mit.edu/~jrennie/




_______________________________________________
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1262.6826573e4fe12221d02721aa9817da24.eml000066400000000000000000000147671444326627400307020ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Wed Oct  9 22:41:06 2002
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Subject: Re: From
In-Reply-To: Your message of
    "Wed, 09 Oct 2002 12:57:13 EDT."
    <200210091657.g99GvDmX025433@life.ai.mit.edu>
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This is not an exmh problem, but an interaction between sendmail, Solaris and 
mh.

Your sysadmin is wrong.  It is the responsibility of the receiving mail 
server to escape lines beginning with "From " if they choose to turn on that 
facility.  It is not the responsibility for email clients to cater to the 
stupid design of the unix mail spool, and Sun's even more stupid decision to 
rely on "Content-length:" instead of dealing with this problem.  Since mh is 
unaware of "Content-length:", rcvstore gags trying to parse messages from the 
spool.

I had this same problem.  There are several ways to fix it:

1)  Get your mail administrator to add the "E" flag to your sendmail.  This 
means you will never see a line beginning with "From ".  Any such line will 
look like ">From ".

2)  There is a patch to mh to make it respect "Content-length:".  When I was 
having this problem, porting this patch to nmh was low on the priority list, 
then nmh development stalled for a long time.  I doubt it has been done, but 
you can check with the nmh list at nmh-workers@mhost.com to find out for sure.

3)  You can learn to use procmail, invoking rcvstore directly instead of 
letting sendmail put your incoming mail into the spool.  This avoids the 
whole issue.  rcvstore only deals with a single message at a time, and 
everything works.
-- 
Jim McMaster
mailto:mcmasjc@tatanka.stortek.com


In message <200210091657.g99GvDmX025433@life.ai.mit.edu>, Jason Rennie said:
> 
> When I receive a message that has a line starting with "From ", it's
> broken into two messages.  I get my mail from /var/spool/mail.  The
> program that incorporates mail thinks that the "From " line starts a new
> message.
> 
> My sysadmins have told me that the sending mail client is supposed to 
> escape lines begining with "From ".  EXMH (2.5) doesn't do this.  Should 
> it?  It appears that my MH is MH 6.8.  Does NMH fix this?
> 
> Jason D. M. Rennie
> MIT AI Lab
> jrennie@ai.mit.edu
> (617) 253-5339
> http://www.ai.mit.edu/~jrennie/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Exmh-users mailing list
> Exmh-users@redhat.com
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/exmh-users
> 




_______________________________________________
Exmh-users mailing list
Exmh-users@redhat.com
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1263.b8e6ea5b6f483ce15f2194bed93b6b29.eml000066400000000000000000000115721444326627400313600ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Wed Oct  9 22:41:12 2002
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To: exmh-users@example.com
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>>>>> On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, "Jason" == Jason Rennie wrote:

  Jason> My sysadmins have told me that the sending mail client
  Jason> is supposed to escape lines begining with "From ".

Your sysadmins are wrong.

Whatever program that is used to store the mail into the 
braindead "mailbox" file (/var/spool/mail/whatever) is supposed 
to escape a line that begins with From.  That program is called 
the local Mail Delivery Agent (MDA)

It would be better if you never, ever, stored your mail in a 
"mailbox" file.

If your sysadmins are capable of it, get them to set up the 
receiving Mail Transfer Agent (MTA) to allow the use of procmail 
as the local MDA.  Then use procmail to invoke rcvstore and 
deliver your mail directly into your MH mail folders.

Most Linux systems come configured this way, if a user has a
$HOME/.procmail file then mail is delivered using procmail.


--Hal




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1264.c8e0a9ae674a3b16ef93c8b41013d1ee.eml000066400000000000000000000135521444326627400313360ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Wed Oct  9 22:41:24 2002
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    <4226.1034187399@tatanka>
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James> This is not an exmh problem, but an interaction between sendmail,
James> Solaris and mh.

Correct.

James> Your sysadmin is wrong.  It is the responsibility of the receiving mail
James> server to escape lines beginning with "From " if they choose to turn
James> on that facility.  It is not the responsibility for email clients to
James> cater to the stupid design of the unix mail spool, and Sun's even more
James> stupid decision to rely on "Content-length:" instead of dealing with
James> this problem.  Since mh is unaware of "Content-length:", rcvstore gags
James> trying to parse messages from the spool.

Also correct.  In fairness, though I cannot defend the Content-Length: header
as I consider it brain damage in the extreme, Sun inherited this from AT&T.

James> Get your mail administrator to add the "E" flag to your sendmail.
James> This means you will never see a line beginning with "From ". Any such
James> line will look like ">From ".

Specifically, you will need to find a line in /etc/mail/sendmail.cf that
starts with "Mlocal" such as:

[4784] grep ^Mlocal /etc/mail/sendmail.cf
Mlocal,         P=/usr/lib/mail.local, F=lsDFMAw5:/|@qPSXfmnz9E, S=EnvFromSMTP/HdrFromL, R=EnvToL/HdrToL,
[4785] 

and make sure that 'E' appears in the long list of flags following "F=".
If your sys-admin uses m4 to generate sendmail.cf, and any good sys-admin
should, then here is the magic line for the .mc file:

MODIFY_MAILER_FLAGS(`LOCAL', `+E')dnl

James> You can learn to use procmail, invoking rcvstore directly instead of 
James> letting sendmail put your incoming mail into the spool.  This avoids
James> the whole issue.  rcvstore only deals with a single message at a time,
James> and everything works.

Also correct, though procmail per se is not needed, as other filters (such
as slocal, which is part of the [n]mh distribution) do the trick just as well.

-- John



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1265.44012a15af306a59078f2873b92a855f.eml000066400000000000000000000124411444326627400307010ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Wed Oct  9 22:41:27 2002
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mcmasjc@tatanka.stortek.com said:
> 3)  You can learn to use procmail,

Can this be done via .forward?  I don't have root on the machine my
mailbox is on, and I'm absolutely certain that a complaint to the sysadmin
about sendmail will get a simple response: shut down the daemon and tell
me to use Outlook. :(

--
73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin KENNY   GE Corporate Research & Development
kennykb@crd.ge.com           P. O. Box 8, Bldg. K-1, Rm. 5B36A
                             Schenectady, New York 12301-0008 USA



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1266.52a2bf88987e97b6f4d5a743e353d50a.eml000066400000000000000000000112421444326627400311430ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Wed Oct  9 22:41:46 2002
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In message <200210091843.OAA01268@hippolyta.crd.ge.com>, Kevin Kenny said:
> 
> mcmasjc@tatanka.stortek.com said:
> > 3)  You can learn to use procmail,
> 
It absolutely can be done from .forward.  I am in the same situation as you, 
and that is how I do it.
-- 
Jim McMaster
mailto:mcmasjc@tatanka.stortek.com




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1267.3641b74038e9f1bc91bbf8318572ffd1.eml000066400000000000000000000130041444326627400311260ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: exmh-users-admin@redhat.com  Wed Oct  9 22:42:09 2002
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On Wed, 09 Oct 2002 14:43:32 EDT, Kevin Kenny writes:
>> 3)  You can learn to use procmail,

>Can this be done via .forward?

make your .forward contain only the following line:
"|/usr/bin/procmail"
 (incl. the quotes, your procmail binary may be in another path)

cheers,
&rw
-- 
-- For a list of points detailing how technology
-- has failed to improve our lives, please press 3.                         



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In message <200210091925.g99JPGfJ001534@fsck.intern.waldner.priv.at>, Robert 
Wa
ldner said:
> 
> 
> On Wed, 09 Oct 2002 14:43:32 EDT, Kevin Kenny writes:
> >> 3)  You can learn to use procmail,
> 
> >Can this be done via .forward?
> 
> make your .forward contain only the following line:
> "|/usr/bin/procmail"
>  (incl. the quotes, your procmail binary may be in another path)
> 
Check the procmail documentation.  They actually recommend:

"|IFS=' '&&p=(PATH/TO/PROCMAIL)&&test -f $p&&exec $p -f-||exit 
75#(UNIQUE_STRING)"

I don't know what this does, but it is explained in the doc.
-- 
Jim McMaster
mailto:mcmasjc@tatanka.stortek.com





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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Jason Rennie  writes:

> My sysadmins have told me that the sending mail client is supposed to 
> escape lines begining with "From ".  EXMH (2.5) doesn't do this.  Should 
> it?  It appears that my MH is MH 6.8.  Does NMH fix this?

Actually, this issue used to escalate into a religious war. The "From " 
envelope is an artifact of the mbox mailbox format, and from that 
perspective it should be the mail server that stores its mailboxes in
mbox format that should be responsible for escaping lines beginning with 
"From ". On the other hand, this breaks the assumption that the mail 
transport only touches the message headers and leaves the message body 
alone.
Things like pgp signatures break when the mail server changes the message 
body.

Also, strictly speaking, the mbox format envelope (or for us old-timers, 
the UUCP envelope) isn't just any line beginning with "From ". It's really 
"From", a single space, a valid email address, two spaces, and a valid 
date.
For example:

    From ptardif@nbnet.nb.ca  Sun Jul 14 08:53:57 2002
        ^                   ^^


-- 
John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix 
IM: jabr@jabber.blu.org / abreauj@aim / abreauj@yahoo / 28611923@icq
Email jabr@blu.org / WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0xD5C7B5D9
PGP-Key-Fingerprint 72 FB 39 4F 3C 3B D6 5B E0 C8 5A 6E F1 2C BE 99

   Some people say, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
   I often respond, "When elephants fight, it's the grass
   that gets trampled."




--==_Exmh_1405404058P
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Exmh version 2.5 01/15/2001

iQCVAwUBPaScZlV9A5rVx7XZAQJlrgQAyxnhXLaYoas75wtCkQz7pr5jhTamXm9s
85Tx9R9YcZtAAK67wd7U6ZqIOcr+J76G/xn2+gm6ASVRL4/ipETx9AFhdq8pG//w
sU/8zYCxOrnmqVI62sYaqx2m4m75IrnSdqR5ARKHc2U05zQq47xuMxSTIrC/dwKK
oyAlEFSe8Rw=
=mVfx
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--==_Exmh_1405404058P--



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1270.d5c74ed6ae742bd031a65859f584f024.eml000066400000000000000000000100271444326627400311230ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Mon Sep 23 18:31:38 2002
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To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: sylpheed-claws
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On Mon, 23 Sep 2002 17:41:20 +0200
Matthias Saou  wrote:

# So did my build if the original source is what you were mentioning
# ;-) One drawback : They changed from pspell to aspell apparently,
# and it requires aspell >= 0.50 which isn't even in Rawhide, so spell
# checking is disabled for now until I take a decision about it :-/

OOps, I didn't see the webpage get updated.  I saw the new claws, and
checked your site, forgot about it for half a day and then posted
here.  You beat me once again! 

# If I build recent aspell packages, they may not be upgraded when
# ungrating to the next Red Hat Linux release (the final version of
# the limbos and(null) betas), which is maybe not really desired. I'll
# probably test and see...

Oh yeah, I was following this thread in the sylpheed-claws list.  Very
interesting stuff.  I might have to stick w/ 0.8.2 until aspell gets
updated in Red Hat.

-- 
Jesse Keating
j2Solutions.net
Mondo DevTeam (www.mondorescue.org)

Was I helpful?  Let others know:
 http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1271.1af7c90a1459165ff18d621de40239c5.eml000066400000000000000000000101251444326627400310330ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Mon Sep 23 18:31:43 2002
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Once upon a time, Jesse wrote :

> On Fri, 20 Sep 2002 10:40:55 +0200
> Matthias Saou  wrote:
> 
> # But as it's the primary mailer I use, you can be sure that as soon
> # as it's updated to 0.8.3, I'll update my build! :-)
> 
> It got updated (;

So did my build if the original source is what you were mentioning ;-)
One drawback : They changed from pspell to aspell apparently, and it
requires aspell >= 0.50 which isn't even in Rawhide, so spell checking is
disabled for now until I take a decision about it :-/

If I build recent aspell packages, they may not be upgraded when ungrating
to the next Red Hat Linux release (the final version of the limbos and
(null) betas), which is maybe not really desired. I'll probably test and
see...

Matthias

PS: The spec file was massively updated and the --with / --without options
that can be used to rebuild the source packages are now listed in the
description ;-)

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1272.812e1f9e9143c336f6a351d8abf6fdc5.eml000066400000000000000000000075431444326627400312760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Mon Sep 23 18:31:51 2002
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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
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Once upon a time, Jesse wrote :

> Oh yeah, I was following this thread in the sylpheed-claws list.  Very
> interesting stuff.  I might have to stick w/ 0.8.2 until aspell gets
> updated in Red Hat.

Then this may be 6 months or more since my guess after 3 beta releases is
that the freeze on package versions for inclusion in the next stable
release (n+1) has already happened, thus you'll have to wait at least for
Red Hat Linux... n+2 :-)

This is why (if it doesn't break anything), I'll maybe release recent
aspell packages. But to be sure I'll need to do some testing ;-)

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1273.eb9f0b877dc669691c45314b5b6ff605.eml000066400000000000000000000077651444326627400311610ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Mon Sep 23 22:46:13 2002
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Subject: Re: Should mplayer be build with Win32 codecs?
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Hi,

First you have to get the win32 files !!!
then , you configure using  --enable_win32 

On Fri, 2002-09-20 at 13:11, Axel Thimm wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> has anyone an answer for me? The mplayer documentation still suggests to use
> them for x86 architectures.
> 
> Thanks. :)
> 
> Regards, Axel.
> 
> On Sat, Jun 08, 2002 at 11:39:03PM +0200, Axel Thimm wrote:
> > Are there perhaps licensing issues, which forbid such a practice? Or any other
> > reasons?
> > 
> > The reason I ask is that I have seen performance and also some feature
> > differences (fullscreen w/o keeping aspect ratio, visual artifacts on NVIDIA)
> > comparing with or without the Win32 codecs. The mplayer authors seem to
> > recommend using them for x86 architectures.
> > 
> > Beware, I am no mplayer/codecs/whatever expert, I may be totally lost ...
> 
> -- 
> Axel.Thimm@physik.fu-berlin.de
> 
> _______________________________________________
> RPM-List mailing list 
> http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list
> 



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Hi folks, I just uploaded RPMS of the new netatalk 1.5.5 released 
yesterday, thought folks here might be interested.  This release fixes a 
nastygram in saving files via Illustrator that I personally have been 
waiting for....

   http://ftp.falsehope.com/home/tengel/netatalk/

(will be mirrored on rpmfind.net by tomorrow, usually).

-te

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Hello,

I'm new to the list.
I wanted to find out who tried recompiling a working apt rpm for (null) or 
psyche.  I would like to get good GStreamer packages done by monday when 
it's released.

BTW, in the archive I saw some posts regarding the GStreamer repository.  
I'm not sure why they were posted on this list ;) In any case, I'm the rpm 
maintainer, so if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

I was trying to get an updated apt rpm from http://dave.cridland.net/, but 
the http port is closed.  Dave, if you're reading this, please let me know 
where I can get the updated rpm.

Thanks,
Thomas

-- 

The Dave/Dina Project : future TV today ! - http://davedina.apestaart.org/
<-*-                      -*->
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you leave my life
I'm better off dead
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From: Matthias Saou 
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Once upon a time, Thomas wrote :

> I wanted to find out who tried recompiling a working apt rpm for (null)
> or psyche.  I would like to get good GStreamer packages done by monday
> when it's released.

I have a working apt 0.5.4cnc7 package for Red Hat Linux 8.0. It will be
available at the same second the distribution will, and so will a complete
apt repository already including quite a few of my packages updated for Red
Hat Linux 8.0.

I didn't want to say all this before Monday, but as the new release already
leaked from many places, and official statements made about it, it
shouldn't be a big deal :-/

I'll keep you all posted on Monday! They'll even be a big apt-related
surprise! ;-))))

Matthias

-- 
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-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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From: Thomas Vander Stichele 
To: gstreamer-devel@example.sourceforge.net
Cc: RPM-List@freshrpms.net
Subject: Red Hat 8.0
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Hi,

Red Hat 8.0 is released tomorrow (monday).  I took some time out to make 
RPMs of GStreamer for it.

All of them (core, plugins and player) have been uploaded to the apt 
repository in a new "redhat-80-i386" directory.

The repository for dependencies is again called "deps", and the one for 
the gstreamer rpms is "redhat", because this time around the base distro 
contains all the necessary packages.

A screenshot of Red Hat 8.0 running gst-player is up at
http://thomas.apestaart.org/download/screenshots/redhat-80-gst-player.png


Here are some known issues with the resulting rpms :

a) gstreamer-nautilus isn't built, the package got renamed and I don't 
have a -devel package for it yet

b) the c++ plugins have problems which I haven't been able to resolve.
Here are the errors:

INFO (15299: 0)gst_xml_registry_rebuild:1555: Plugin 
/usr/lib/gst/libgstwincodec.so failed to load: Error loading plugin 
/usr/lib/gst/libgstwincodec.so, reason: /usr/lib/libaviplay-0.7.so.0: 
undefined symbol: _ZTVN10__cxxabiv120__si_class_type_infoE

Plugin /usr/lib/gst/libgstwincodec.so failed to load
DEBUG(15299: 0)gst_plugin_load_plugin:161: attempt to load plugin 
"/usr/lib/gst/libgstmodplug.so"
INFO (15299: 0)gst_xml_registry_rebuild:1555: Plugin 
/usr/lib/gst/libgstmodplug.so failed to load: Error loading plugin 
/usr/lib/gst/libgstmodplug.so, reason: /usr/lib/gst/libgstmodplug.so: 
undefined symbol: __gxx_personality_v0

I'm not sure how to fix this; running strings on the libs in /usr/lib 
reveals that there are other libs that have these symbols, so there must 
be something straightforward that should fix this.
If anyone has a suggestion, please share ;)

Thomas

-- 

The Dave/Dina Project : future TV today ! - http://davedina.apestaart.org/
<-*-                      -*->
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Kiss me out of desire baby not consolation
Oh you know it makes me so angry cause I know that in time
I'll only make you cry
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Hi,

> On Sun, 29 Sep 2002, Thomas Vander Stichele wrote:
> 
> > INFO (15299: 0)gst_xml_registry_rebuild:1555: Plugin 
> > /usr/lib/gst/libgstwincodec.so failed to load: Error loading plugin 
> > /usr/lib/gst/libgstwincodec.so, reason: /usr/lib/libaviplay-0.7.so.0: 
> > undefined symbol: _ZTVN10__cxxabiv120__si_class_type_infoE

> Are you using the same version of GCC to compile the plugin as its C++
> dependencies?

Yes, I am.  Everything is built inside a chroot.  I think it isn't linking 
to a lib somewhere, I'm just not sure what lib it should preloading here.  
Anyway to find out which one it is ?

Thomas

 -- 

The Dave/Dina Project : future TV today ! - http://davedina.apestaart.org/
<-*-                      -*->
You came in just like smoke
With a little come on come on 
come on in your walk
come on
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Once upon a time, Thomas wrote :

> > On Sun, 29 Sep 2002, Thomas Vander Stichele wrote:
> > 
> > > INFO (15299: 0)gst_xml_registry_rebuild:1555: Plugin 
> > > /usr/lib/gst/libgstwincodec.so failed to load: Error loading plugin 
> > > /usr/lib/gst/libgstwincodec.so, reason: /usr/lib/libaviplay-0.7.so.0:
> > > 
> > > undefined symbol: _ZTVN10__cxxabiv120__si_class_type_infoE
> 
> > Are you using the same version of GCC to compile the plugin as its C++
> > dependencies?
> 
> Yes, I am.  Everything is built inside a chroot.  I think it isn't
> linking to a lib somewhere, I'm just not sure what lib it should
> preloading here.  Anyway to find out which one it is ?

Looks like a problem with the avifile you've rebuilt... I've been unable to
recompile successfully the latest version on 8.0 :-/

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
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To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
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> > > > INFO (15299: 0)gst_xml_registry_rebuild:1555: Plugin 
> > > > /usr/lib/gst/libgstwincodec.so failed to load: Error loading plugin 
> > > > /usr/lib/gst/libgstwincodec.so, reason: /usr/lib/libaviplay-0.7.so.0:
> > > > 
> > > > undefined symbol: _ZTVN10__cxxabiv120__si_class_type_infoE
> > 
> > > Are you using the same version of GCC to compile the plugin as its C++
> > > dependencies?
> > 
> > Yes, I am.  Everything is built inside a chroot.  I think it isn't
> > linking to a lib somewhere, I'm just not sure what lib it should
> > preloading here.  Anyway to find out which one it is ?
> 
> Looks like a problem with the avifile you've rebuilt... I've been unable to
> recompile successfully the latest version on 8.0 :-/

Hm, it is built inside the same chroot.  aviplay works (well it would if I 
had XV, I get X errors ;)).  But it doesn't complain about linker 
problems.  So I suppose my avifile library on itself is compiled ok.

Sigh, avifile is one of the worst packages out there, in all aspects - 
naming of tarballs, not ever releasing an actual package, versioning of 
libraries, API stability, ...

Thomas

 -- 

The Dave/Dina Project : future TV today ! - http://davedina.apestaart.org/
<-*-                      -*->
cos when i needed someone
you left me floored
the feeling is gone
i can't let go
you know that i'd change if i had the love it takes
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Peter Peltonen (peter.peltonen@iki.fi) wrote*:
>BTW: I just a found a quite nice looking apt repositry for
>all kinds of audio apps at
>
>http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/
>

_Very_ comprehensive audio app collection, Thanks.

--
That's "angle" as in geometry.



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Matthias,

On Mon, Sep 30, 2002 at 09:28:26AM +0200, Matthias Saou wrote:
> All freshrpms.net is now set for the imminent release of Red Hat Linux 8.0.

thanks a lot for all your effords! It is just great!

> I'll probably post to the list once I open up ftp.freshrpms.net so you can
> be the first ones to get in and download, although I doubt you'll have
> trouble finding access to at least one fast mirror using my mirror list.

You mean the mirror list for RH8.0, or do there exist mirrors for your apt
repo?

On Sat, Sep 28, 2002 at 06:37:54PM +0200, Matthias Saou wrote: 
> I'll keep you all posted on Monday! They'll even be a big apt-related 
> surprise! ;-)))) 

Was this the surprise, or will there be even more (where are my heart pills)? ;)

Thanks Matthias!
-- 
Axel.Thimm@physik.fu-berlin.de

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Indeed - I was thinking of getting back into doing mods - nice to see an 
apt-get'able soundtracker there :-)

Anyone know where to get a good selection of samples/loops?

--On Monday, September 30, 2002 07:14:31 +0000 Angles Puglisi 
 wrote:

> _Very_ comprehensive audio app collection, Thanks.



                                    -- \m/ --
  "...if I seem super human I have been misunderstood." (c) Dream Theater
         mark@talios.com - ICQ: 1934853 JID: talios@myjabber.net


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Subject: Re: All set for Red Hat Linux 8.0
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I would appreciate it if you could get Gabber packages for Red Hat 8. I 
will be making a new release soon, but even in the meantime, 0.8.7 
packages would be ok.

I know that in the beta, red hat was using a modified version of 
gnome-libs which is incompatible with the latest gnomemm. If this is 
still the case in 8, I can send you a patch which makes gnomemm work 
again...

Julian

On Monday, Sep 30, 2002, at 03:28 US/Eastern, Matthias Saou wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> All freshrpms.net is now set for the imminent release of Red Hat Linux 
> 8.0.
> The whole release process is a lot less secret as usual since there 
> have
> been some leaks, including a mirror purposely wide open :-(
>
> See this article about the release and the leaks :
> http://news.com.com/2100-1001-959434.html?tag=fd_top
>
> As it's no secret anymore, the files will be available today (morning 
> for
> you Americans, afternoon for us Europeans), and to go with them, there 
> are
> already quite a few freshrpms.net packages ready!
>
> Mirror list for download (they're not open yet) :
> http://freshrpms.net/mirrors/psyche.html
>
> New freshrpms.net package list :
> http://psyche.freshrpms.net/
>
> Of course, apt is also available (now version 0.5.4!) and fully 
> tested. If
> you like apt for your desktop machines, I also recommend checking out 
> the
> new "synaptic" package as it has now been ported to gtk+ and blends
> perfectly into the distribution!
>
> I'll probably post to the list once I open up ftp.freshrpms.net so you 
> can
> be the first ones to get in and download, although I doubt you'll have
> trouble finding access to at least one fast mirror using my mirror 
> list.
>
> Have fun with Psyche!
> Matthias
>
> -- 
> Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
> Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10acpi
> Load : 0.16 0.18 0.17
>
> _______________________________________________
> RPM-List mailing list 
> http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list


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From: Ralf Ertzinger 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: apt 0.5.7 on RH 7.x
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Hi.

Are there any reasons _not_ to use the new apt releases on RH 7.x?

-- 
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From: Matthias Saou 
To: Hesty P 
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Subject: Re: ALSA Problem with Null kernel
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Once upon a time, Hesty wrote :

> I know they're all included in the freshrpms alsa-null
> directory.

Now that Psyche is released, that directory was erased.

> I was worried that with the new mplayer-pre8, these
> packages might break something. Is there any mplayer
> package which includes all the options for -vo and
> -ao? Is that because alsa is not included in RH, hence
> the lack of alsa option for mplayer from freshrpms?
> Or is there some swtiches to enable these options
> during 
> rpm build?

For all my recent packages that support --with and --without options, I've
put them in the %description section. See for instance :
http://psyche.freshrpms.net/rpm.html?id=80

Where you can see :
Available rpmbuild rebuild options :
--with : alsa
--without : aalib lirc libdv arts

The ogle package has also a --with alsa option, and I've had a bug report
about xine that I apparently unintentionally compiled with ALSA directly
:-/

I'd like to aks this on the rpm-zzzlist : Would a new dependency of 250k, the
alsa-lib package, for many packages (mplayer, ogle, xine) be a problem for
the freshrpms.net packages users? As I really feel like blending ALSA in
now, especially since I've just spent some time recompiling alsa-kernel
package for all the Psyche kernels!!!

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: apt 0.5.7 on RH 7.x
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Once upon a time, Ralf wrote :

> Are there any reasons _not_ to use the new apt releases on RH 7.x?

Hmmm... I don't see any :-)

My main concern is that when rebuilding the recent packages I've made for
Psyche on Valhalla, I'd need to lower the "Release:" tag (to keep an
upgrade working), and that would f*ck up my CVS repository which is on my
Valhalla box (well, I'm exagerating, It'll just make it more difficult for
me) ;-)
Sure, there are easy ways around this, but the easiest for me will be to
wait until I upgrade my main box to Psyche and have Valhalla only on a
secondary rebuild system.

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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From: Ralf Ertzinger 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: apt 0.5.7 on RH 7.x
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Hi.

Matthias Saou  wrote:
> My main concern is that when rebuilding the recent packages I've made
> for Psyche on Valhalla, I'd need to lower the "Release:" tag (to keep an
> upgrade working), and that would f*ck up my CVS repository which is on
> my Valhalla box

Sorry, I don't get it. What's wrong with a release tag of fr1?

-- 
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Matthias Saou wrote:
> 
> I'd like to aks this on the rpm-zzzlist : Would a new dependency of 250k, the
> alsa-lib package, for many packages (mplayer, ogle, xine) be a problem for
> the freshrpms.net packages users? As I really feel like blending ALSA in
> now, especially since I've just spent some time recompiling alsa-kernel
> package for all the Psyche kernels!!!

I don't know a lot about ALSA, but use custom kernels for many of the 
machines -- would this mean, in order to get mplayer (eg) to work, I'd 
first have to compile a custom kernel option? or kernel module? Since I 
wouldn't have your alsa-kernel(??) installed, would that mean alsa-libs 
and so on won't install?

(I guess, in short, if it *requires* the shipped kernel to be used, I'd 
be against --with-alsa as a default?)

-te

-- 
Troy Engel, Systems Engineer
Cool as the other side of the pillow


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From: Matthias Saou 
To: Hesty P 
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Subject: Re: ALSA Problem with Null kernel
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Once upon a time, Hesty wrote :

> > Where you can see :
> > Available rpmbuild rebuild options :
> > --with : alsa
> > --without : aalib lirc libdv arts
> 
> Does this mean when rebuilding the package, I'll
> simply
> type: 
> > rpmbuild --rebuild .src.rpm --with alsa ?

Yes it does. And if you're missing the dependencies needed for the selected
options, you'll even be informed! (for ALSA, you'll need alsa-lib-devel for
example)

> > I'd like to aks this on the rpm-zzzlist : Would a new
> > dependency of 250k, the
> > alsa-lib package, for many packages (mplayer, ogle,
> > xine) be a problem for
> > the freshrpms.net packages users? As I really feel
> > like blending ALSA in
> > now, especially since I've just spent some time
> > recompiling alsa-kernel
> > package for all the Psyche kernels!!!
> > 
> 
> I'll have no problem at all with this and you get my
> vote on this one. 
> 
> One problem with alsa-kernel that I've experienced:
> everytime RH issues a new kernel update, I have to
> rebuild my alsa-kernel to match the new kernel.

Yup... unfortunately the alsa-kernel needs to be rebuilt for each kernel,
and there's no way of avoiding it.

Matthias

-- 
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Hi.

Matthias Saou  wrote:

> repository... and there's where the problem will be : It will say that
> there are two synaptic-0.24-fr1 packages (one installed, the other
> available) with the same version but different dependencies :-/
> That's why I always keep package versions lower for older distributions.

Ah, now I see. This is a non-issue here, so I'll rebuild locally :)

-- 
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Once upon a time, Ralf wrote :

> Matthias Saou  wrote:
> > My main concern is that when rebuilding the recent packages I've made
> > for Psyche on Valhalla, I'd need to lower the "Release:" tag (to keep
> > an upgrade working), and that would f*ck up my CVS repository which is
> > on my Valhalla box
> 
> Sorry, I don't get it. What's wrong with a release tag of fr1?

Say you have installed synaptic-0.24-fr1 on your Valhalla box (package
rebuilt for Valhalla). Then you upgrade to Psyche using the Red Hat CDs.
Hopefully with the compat libraries the package will still be there
(although I doubt that since C++ is binary incompatible, so this is
probably a bad example), then you "apt-get update" with the new Psyche
repository... and there's where the problem will be : It will say that
there are two synaptic-0.24-fr1 packages (one installed, the other
available) with the same version but different dependencies :-/
That's why I always keep package versions lower for older distributions.

Matthias

-- 
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Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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Is it possible to use new apt to do (null) to RH8 upgrade?

Even if it's possible, are there good reasons why maybe I should not do it and
just use the RH iso's (I don't think RH8 will upgrade from (null), maybe up2date
will)?

--
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From: Thomas Vander Stichele 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: use new apt to do null to RH8 upgrade?
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> Is it possible to use new apt to do (null) to RH8 upgrade?

It might be, don't think anyone tried it yet.

> Even if it's possible, are there good reasons why maybe I should not do it and
> just use the RH iso's (I don't think RH8 will upgrade from (null), maybe up2date
> will)?

Yes ;)

first off, redhat does not support upgrading from beta's to the released 
version.  That doesn't mean it can't work, it means nobody tried it, they 
sure didn't test it or fix anything to make it work, and you're on your 
own.

second, historically a new .0 numbers mostly means "so much has been 
changed that you might have problems upgrading from any previous release 
anyway".  So, historically, most users installing a .0 release do this 
from scratch anyway, doing upgrades throughout x.0->x.y.

If you want to avoid problems, bite the bullet and reinstall ;)

Thomas

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From: Mark Derricutt 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
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I remember apt-get dist-upgrading from 7.2 to 7.3 fine, so it -should- 
work, maybe :)

--On Tuesday, October 01, 2002 10:27:47 +0200 Thomas Vander Stichele 
 wrote:

> It might be, don't think anyone tried it yet.



                                    -- \m/ --
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From: Matthias Saou 
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Once upon a time, Mark wrote :

> I remember apt-get dist-upgrading from 7.2 to 7.3 fine, so it -should- 
> work, maybe :)

I've done that too, on many production servers. The only little
(unimportant) catch is to replace "kernel-headers" by "glibc-kernheaders",
a simple "apt-get install glibc-kernheaders" taking care of that.

Upgrading between releases is meant to work, not between betas or beta and
releases. The reason is simple : Some packages may have been downgraded,
some others may have been rebuilt with the same versions but different
dependencies. For both these categories of packages, the upgrade through
apt/rhn/whatever just won't do, as some older packages might be considered
as the newest, thus being kept on the system.

As Red Hat does, I really don't recommend trying to upgrade between betas
or from a beta to a final release either. Simply backup your /home, /etc
(and /root and/or /usr/local/ if needed) then reinstall cleanly, it'll
probably save a few hassles and you'll get the cleanest possible system ;-)

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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From: Panu Matilainen 
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Subject: Re: use new apt to do null to RH8 upgrade?
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On Tue, 1 Oct 2002, Angles Puglisi wrote:


> Is it possible to use new apt to do (null) to RH8 upgrade?

Possible - should be, it was possible to update to (null) from RH7.3 with 
apt. Did that on my laptop and well.. it was painfull to say the least 
(including a ecovery from totally corrupted rpmdb) Don't expect it to be 
an easy 'dist-upgrade' at any rate, so much stuff has changed and apt 
doesn't always handle all that well the way dependencies are set in 
RHL.

> 
> Even if it's possible, are there good reasons why maybe I should not do
> it and just use the RH iso's (I don't think RH8 will upgrade from
> (null), maybe up2date will)?

It's possible but not supported by RH. I've upgraded both my laptop and my 
home box from (null) to RH8.0 and didn't encounter any issues though.

-- 
	- Panu -


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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: Gabber packages for 8.0 (was: All set for Red Hat Linux 8.0)
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Once upon a time, Julian wrote :

> I would appreciate it if you could get Gabber packages for Red Hat 8. I 
> will be making a new release soon, but even in the meantime, 0.8.7 
> packages would be ok.
> 
> I know that in the beta, red hat was using a modified version of 
> gnome-libs which is incompatible with the latest gnomemm. If this is 
> still the case in 8, I can send you a patch which makes gnomemm work 
> again...

I'm facing another problem right now. It looks like libsigc++ is no longer
included in the distribution, and gtkmm won't compile without it :-/
I guess I'll have to repackage it myself for 8.0 (assuming it's possible).

Matthias

-- 
Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10acpi
Load : 0.28 0.15 0.10

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From: Matthias Saou 
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Subject: Re: Gabber packages for 8.0 (was: All set for Red Hat Linux 8.0)
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Once upon a time, Matthias wrote :

> I'm facing another problem right now. It looks like libsigc++ is no
> longer included in the distribution, and gtkmm won't compile without it
> :-/ I guess I'll have to repackage it myself for 8.0 (assuming it's
> possible).

Well, I've made an updated libsigc++ 1.0.4 package. It rebuilds cleanly on
7.3 but the *.so* libraries are missing when trying to rebuild on 8.0 (the
.a and .la files and everything else is though).
Do you have an idea of what the problem may be? Julian : Do you want the
.src.rpm to try to find the cause?

Matthias

-- 
Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10acpi
Load : 0.19 0.15 0.16

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From: "" Angles " Puglisi" 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: use new apt to do null to RH8 upgrade?
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Matthias Saou (matthias@egwn.net) wrote*:
>As Red Hat does, I really don't recommend trying to upgrade between betas
>or from a beta to a final release either. Simply backup your /home, /etc
>(and /root and/or /usr/local/ if needed) then reinstall cleanly, it'll
>probably save a few hassles and you'll get the cleanest possible system ;-)
>

I think this is probably the best way, because I think (maybe) with upgrading you
do not always automatically get the latest feature enabled in some config file
because RH would rather take it easy and not update that config file (you get a
rpmnew instead of rpmsaved file) so they get less calls to support that way.

Anyway, I have tons of media files in /home/* probably 5 to 10 gigs at least, my
laptop's CDROM takes 700MB at a time (obviously) and compressing media files is
dumb because they are already compressed. Dumb question: how to backup huge data?
Network backup to another box? I do not have a box with a tape drive, but maybe box
with a large HD with much free space could take the backup (oops, I do not have a
space computer with a large HD with much free space).

These media files are backed up - ON THE CD'S THEY CAME FROM! Yes I learned that
used CDs make inexpensive backup copy on the shelf. I do not want to re-rip all
this crap again.

--
That's "angle" as in geometry.



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From: Thomas Vander Stichele 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: use new apt to do null to RH8 upgrade?
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> Matthias Saou (matthias@egwn.net) wrote*:
> >As Red Hat does, I really don't recommend trying to upgrade between betas
> >or from a beta to a final release either. Simply backup your /home, /etc
> >(and /root and/or /usr/local/ if needed) then reinstall cleanly, it'll
> >probably save a few hassles and you'll get the cleanest possible system ;-)
> 
> I think this is probably the best way, because I think (maybe) with upgrading you
> do not always automatically get the latest feature enabled in some config file
> because RH would rather take it easy and not update that config file (you get a
> rpmnew instead of rpmsaved file) so they get less calls to support that way.

If you dislike Red Hat, why use it ? This was a really bad argument 
against using Red Hat that makes no sense at all.  I for one am GLAD that 
they 
a) don't overwrite your config files on a whim (be GLAD they don't do some 
sort of autodetection and changing crap)
b) tell you on rpm upgrade what config files you should look at because 
formats have changed.

Red Hat is not "taking it easy" on this, it's putting control in the hands 
of you, the maintainer of the machine.  Don't be lazy.

> Anyway, I have tons of media files in /home/* probably 5 to 10 gigs at least, my
> laptop's CDROM takes 700MB at a time (obviously) and compressing media files is
> dumb because they are already compressed. Dumb question: how to backup huge data?
> Network backup to another box? I do not have a box with a tape drive, but maybe box
> with a large HD with much free space could take the backup (oops, I do not have a
> space computer with a large HD with much free space).

You don't need to backup /home if you are careful enough.  You did put 
/home on a separate partition, no ? Just install rh80 and tell it to use 
the same partition as /home and tell it to NOT format it, but keep the 
data as is.

If you didn't put /home on a separate partition, then you really do need 
to make backups.  Use an nfs or smb mount from another machine to backup 
and rsync straight to the mount, or if that's not possible, rsync over 
ssh.  It's the best way to make backups.

> These media files are backed up - ON THE CD'S THEY CAME FROM! 

It's the other way around - your media files are backups of the CD's they 
came from ;)

Good luck,
Thomas
-- 

The Dave/Dina Project : future TV today ! - http://davedina.apestaart.org/
<-*-                      -*->
You know the shape my breath will take before I let it out
<-*- thomas@apestaart.org -*->
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--Boundary_(ID_KtnWPrcWHTTzQa7OHxPjiA)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
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I use a mostly Red Hat 8.0 system, but prefer to configure and build my 
kernel by hand.  I'd like to humbly offer a tweak to alsa-driver.spec 
that helps it build cleanly under such circumstances.  I recognize that 
freshrpms.net packages are designed with standard Red Hat in mind, 
including a standard kernel RPM.  However, I hope that Matthias will 
consider the tweak small enough to justify its incorporation.

The diff is attached below.  The first part of the diff contains a 
conditional that checks to see if the expected RPM is installed.  If it 
is, %{karch} is set as before and a new %{krpm} flag is set to 1.  If 
the expected RPM is not installed, then %{karch} is instead set using 
"uname -p", while %{krpm} is left undefined.

The second part of the diff is simpler.  We only require that 
kernel-source be installed if the kernel itself came from an RPM.  (If 
the kernel was hand-built, the presumably the user knows enough to have 
retained the sources in the expected place.)

Again, I realize that I'm operating "off warrantee" by not using a Red 
Hat kernel RPM.  Matthias, if you think this tweak is reasonable and not 
too ugly, I'd love to see you pick it up.  If not, well at least this 
message will sit in the archives and may help other folks in the future.

--Boundary_(ID_KtnWPrcWHTTzQa7OHxPjiA)
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1303.b8fb03a2de8615f9287086ccc71a4282.eml000066400000000000000000000106761444326627400311270ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Wed Oct  2 11:44:20 2002
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From: Brian Fahrlander 
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Subject: Re: use new apt to do null to RH8 upgrade?
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On Wed, 2 Oct 2002 09:44:15 +0200 (CEST), Thomas Vander Stichele  wrote:

> > Matthias Saou (matthias@egwn.net) wrote*:
> > >As Red Hat does, I really don't recommend trying to upgrade between betas
> > >or from a beta to a final release either. Simply backup your /home, /etc
> > >(and /root and/or /usr/local/ if needed) then reinstall cleanly, it'll
> > >probably save a few hassles and you'll get the cleanest possible system ;-)

    Yeah, I need to work this out, too; I just learned my lesson about living on the bleeding edge. Lesson learned?  NO MORE XIMIAN, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.  Man, that was annoying.

    Anyway, I have returned to Redhat 7.3 on my root filesystem (saved my home directories, music and games on other partitions) and while I have the 8.0 stuff in the list, everything I want to upgrade requires 200+ RPMs.

    I'm not opposed to this, but apt is.  "apt-get dist-upgrade" dumps core.

    What's the inside secret here, or do I just start searching mirrors for the ISO and get over it?

  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Fahrl�nder              Linux Zealot, Conservative, and Technomad
Evansville, IN                    My Voyage: http://www.CounterMoon.com
ICQ  5119262
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just machines, to make big decisions- programmed by fellas with
compassion and vision.  We'll be clean when that work is done;
Eternally free and eternally young.  Linux.

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1304.10546e3c5e1352134ff26c0e49f72864.eml000066400000000000000000000105351444326627400306770ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Wed Oct  2 11:44:56 2002
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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: alsa-driver.spec tweak for homemade kernels
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Once upon a time, Ben wrote :

> I use a mostly Red Hat 8.0 system, but prefer to configure and build my 
> kernel by hand.  I'd like to humbly offer a tweak to alsa-driver.spec 
> that helps it build cleanly under such circumstances.  I recognize that 
> freshrpms.net packages are designed with standard Red Hat in mind, 
> including a standard kernel RPM.  However, I hope that Matthias will 
> consider the tweak small enough to justify its incorporation.

Well, I don't really find it consistent at all to use an rpm package built
against something that wasn't installed through rpm :-/

What I'd recommend in your case : You should keep at least one original Red
Hat Linux kernel (you do just in case, right? ;-)) and install the matching
alsa-kernel package as you'll need at least one because of the
dependencies. Then for your custom built kernel, simply "./configure
--with-cards=all && make && make install DESTDIR=/tmp/alsa-driver" from the
alsa-driver sources then as root copy all the modules under
/tmp/alsa-driver/lib/modules/ to your modules dir and run "depmod -a".

Of course you can even make it much faster by not compiling all un-needed
drivers, as I guess that's one of the reasons one would rebuild his own
kernel.

I find this the easiest and cleanest way to get around the problem. It's
what I've done and what I'll keep doing on my laptop where I'm running a
kernel recompiled with ACPI.

Matthias

-- 
Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10acpi
Load : 0.00 0.02 0.00

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Matthias Saou wrote:
> Well, I don't really find it consistent at all to use an rpm package
> built against something that wasn't installed through rpm :-/

Oh well.  Fair enough.

> What I'd recommend in your case [...]

Ugh, way too much manual labor.  :-)

What I've done instead is to create a tiny little "kernel.spec" that
installs no files but claims to produce a kernel package having version
number `uname -r` for architecture `uname -p`.  It also claims to
provide kernel-sources at the same version.  That is enough to make
alsa-driver.spec happy, and at least forms a reasonable representation
of what my homemade kernel provides to the system.  I should have
thought of this approach sooner.

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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: use new apt to do null to RH8 upgrade?
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Once upon a time, Brian wrote :

>     Yeah, I need to work this out, too; I just learned my lesson about
>     living on the bleeding edge. Lesson learned?  NO MORE XIMIAN, UNDER
>     ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.  Man, that was annoying.

We all learned that sooner or later, right? When I got down to that myself
is when I started redhat.aldil.org, now known as freshrpms.net ;-)

>     Anyway, I have returned to Redhat 7.3 on my root filesystem (saved my
>     home directories, music and games on other partitions) and while I
>     have the 8.0 stuff in the list, everything I want to upgrade requires
>     200+ RPMs.
> 
>     I'm not opposed to this, but apt is.  "apt-get dist-upgrade" dumps
>     core.

Strange.
Anyway, although I'd easily recommend upgrading 7.x to 7.3 using apt, I
wouldn't for 7.x to 8.0 as they are C++ binary incompatible... and apt is
entirely written in C++ and dynamically linked :-/

Still, that doesn't explain a core dump :-(

>     What's the inside secret here, or do I just start searching mirrors
>     for the ISO and get over it?

Why "search"? There's more than enough to choose from here :
http://freshrpms.net/mirrors/psyche.html

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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Hi,

This has been hashed over a few times on various lists, now I finally got 
around to doing something about it... You can now add
"rpm http://koti.welho.com/pmatilai/ redhat/8.0 task" to your sources.list 
and after apt-get update you can find out what's available with 
'apt-cache search ^task-'

These are generated directly from comps.xml of RH8.0 so they contain 
exactly the same packages as you'll get by choosing the various categories 
at install time. I didn't bother including SRPMS for these as they are 
rather uninteresting, if you want you can re-generate the .specs by 
running http://koti.welho.com/pmatilai/comps2task/comps2task.py.

BTW the repository only contains the task-packages, you'll need an 
apt-enabled mirror of RH8.0 in your sources.list to actually do anything 
with it.

-- 
	- Panu -





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From: Matthias Saou 
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    upgrade?)
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Once upon a time, Brian wrote :

>    Yeah, but I try to 'take it easy' on your server.  The golden rule of
>    the internet: when you find a free resource, don't piss'em off!  :)  I
>    really appreciate your work; you get done the things I wish I could,
>    and I respect that.

Don't worry too much : The day the server gets too busy, I'll cleanup and
publish the addresses of some mirrors, as many ftp mirrors exist (I'm aware
of at least 15), and even an apt one :-)
For now, the limit is far enough : When I unlocked the Psyche ISO images on
Monday, the bandwidth usage on the current (ftp|http|rsync) freshrpms.net
server went up to 90Mbps sustained, which is not bad as the server has a
100Mbps physical NIC! Of course, I'd get in trouble if it was always like
that, but the average used when no new Red Hat release is there is between
2 and 4Mbps, which my company tolerates, as I've convinced them it's a
useful return to the community providing us the great operating system all
our servers are running ;-)

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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On Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:53:24 +0200, Matthias Saou  wrote:

> >     Anyway, I have returned to Redhat 7.3 on my root filesystem (saved my
> >     home directories, music and games on other partitions) and while I
> >     have the 8.0 stuff in the list, everything I want to upgrade requires
> >     200+ RPMs.

   Yeah, but I try to 'take it easy' on your server.  The golden rule of the internet: when you find a free resource, don't piss'em off!  :)  I really appreciate your work; you get done the things I wish I could, and I respect that.

> Anyway, although I'd easily recommend upgrading 7.x to 7.3 using apt, I
> wouldn't for 7.x to 8.0 as they are C++ binary incompatible... and apt is
> entirely written in C++ and dynamically linked :-/

    OK, I'll search for the ISOs on the  one remaining site that isn't hammered.  :)
 
> Still, that doesn't explain a core dump :-(

    Sure: this is a linking issue, right?  Right now I'm still pure-vanilla.  I have the stock version of rpm/rpmlib/popt/etc and the recommended version of apt that you gave me.  No, wait...there's no new code getting loaded.  I don't know, either.  It's been a long day.

> >     What's the inside secret here, or do I just start searching mirrors
> >     for the ISO and get over it?
> 
> Why "search"? There's more than enough to choose from here :
> http://freshrpms.net/mirrors/psyche.html

   The hunt continues- with a new field!  (Actually I checked there yesterday, but it's worth another shot.)

    Thanks!
  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Fahrl�nder              Linux Zealot, Conservative, and Technomad
Evansville, IN                    My Voyage: http://www.CounterMoon.com
ICQ  5119262
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just machines, to make big decisions- programmed by fellas with
compassion and vision.  We'll be clean when that work is done;
Eternally free and eternally young.  Linux.

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From: Matthias Saou 
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Subject: Re: use new apt to do null to RH8 upgrade?
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Once upon a time, ""Angles" wrote :

> When I went all "Open Source", I stopped using my old partioning app
> (partition magic?). For the RH7 install I used FIPS (a couple times).
> Then ext3 came out and my old commercial partioning app is real old, so I
> ask what OS software can non-destructively repartition a HD so I can put
> /home on a seperate partition now?

Parted is your friend! You can't do _everything_, the most limiting being
that you can't move the start of a partition, but it's quite powerful
nevertheless, and I've been very happy with it the few times I've had to
use it.

> >If you didn't put /home on a separate partition,
> 
> With winbloze 9x I used to deltree the winbloze dir and some "Program
> Files" dirs, and install "fresh" instead of upgrade, while saving my
> other data. Can this trick be used with this RH8 upgrade? Example rpm -e
> everything so all packages are gone, hit "reset" button and boot to
> redhat CDROM in admin (rescue?) mode, delete all those config files left,
> like "/etc/*", then do an install BUT NOT FORMAT THAT SINGLE PARTITION
> that I'm installing on. If I can hack the details, is this theory
> accurate, or will RH want to destructively install and elimate all
> existing files?

You're really better off backuping all placed where you know you've hand
edited or installed some files. For me that's only /etc/, /root/ and
/home/. Then you reinstall cleanly, formating "/", put your /home/ files
back into place and you're ready to go.
That's the moment I usually realize I had a nifty tweak to a file in
/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ or some special parameters added to an
/etc/modules.conf entry... so I look at my backup and make the same change
again. The only thing where you can get stuck is the grub.conf files,
because although there's a /etc/grub.conf link, it's actually in
/boot/grub/ so you may want to copy it too if you have special kernel
parameters to save (I have to pass "pci=bios,biosirq" for one of my
computers to work for example).

HTH,
Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 10:09:19AM +0200, Matthias Saou wrote:
> Well, I don't really find it consistent at all to use an rpm package built
> against something that wasn't installed through rpm :-/

Following that reasoning, I've been installing all my custom-built
kernels through rpm recently. I find it annoying, though, that 
alsa-kernel, and similar packages, will only build for the currently 
running kernel.

So I've attached a patch to specify an alternate kernel by setting the
"TARGET_KERNEL" environment variable before running rpmbuild. You
still need to have the rpm for the specified kernel installed, but at
least it doesn't have to be currently running. It's kinda hackish, so
if someone has a better way to do this, let me know.

gary

--RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline; filename="alsa-driver-spec.patch"

--- alsa-driver.spec.orig	2002-10-02 12:25:26.000000000 -0700
+++ alsa-driver.spec	2002-10-01 21:23:19.000000000 -0700
@@ -3,9 +3,12 @@
 # Comma separated list of cards for which to compile a driver
 %define	cards		all
 
-%define	kunamer		%(uname -r)
-%define	kversion	%(echo $(uname -r) | sed -e s/smp// -)
-%if %(uname -r | grep -c smp)
+%if %(printenv TARGET_KERNEL >/dev/null && echo -n 1 || echo -n 0)
+%define usekernel	%(echo -n $TARGET_KERNEL)
+%endif
+%define	kunamer		%{!?usekernel: %(uname -r)}%{?usekernel}
+%define	kversion	%(echo %{kunamer} | sed -e s/smp// -)
+%if %(echo %{kunamer} | grep -c smp)
 	%{expand:%%define ksmp -smp}
 %endif
 %define	karch		%(rpm -q --qf '%%{arch}' kernel%{?ksmp}-%{kversion})
@@ -77,6 +80,7 @@
 	%{?_without_isapnp:--with-isapnp=no} \
 	%{?_without_sequencer:--with-sequencer=no} \
 	%{?_without_oss:--with-oss=no} \
+	%{?usekernel:--with-kernel=/lib/modules/%{usekernel}/build} \
 	--with-cards=%{cards}
 make
 
@@ -106,10 +109,10 @@
 rm -f %{buildroot}/etc/rc.d/init.d/alsasound
 
 %post -n alsa-kernel%{?ksmp}
-/sbin/depmod -a
+/sbin/depmod -a -F /boot/System.map-%{kunamer} %{kunamer}
 
 %postun -n alsa-kernel%{?ksmp}
-/sbin/depmod -a
+/sbin/depmod -a -F /boot/System.map-%{kunamer} %{kunamer}
 
 %clean
 rm -rf %{buildroot}

--RnlQjJ0d97Da+TV1--

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From: "" Angles " Puglisi" 
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Subject: Re: use new apt to do null to RH8 upgrade?
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Matthias Saou (matthias@egwn.net) wrote*:
>You're really better off backuping all placed where you know you've hand
>edited or installed some files. For me that's only /etc/, /root/ and
>/home/. Then you reinstall cleanly, formating "/", put your /home/ files
>back into place and you're ready to go.

Matthias I gotta believe you, I've been using your RPMs for some time now :) That's
the way I'll do it. A clean start but with the old configs at the ready for diff-
ing when needed. I'll find some old HD for those media files.

--
That's "angle" as in geometry.



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From: Matthias Saou 
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Subject: Re: alsa-driver.spec tweak for homemade kernels
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Once upon a time, Gary wrote :

> On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 10:09:19AM +0200, Matthias Saou wrote:
> > Well, I don't really find it consistent at all to use an rpm package
> > built against something that wasn't installed through rpm :-/
> 
> Following that reasoning, I've been installing all my custom-built
> kernels through rpm recently. I find it annoying, though, that 
> alsa-kernel, and similar packages, will only build for the currently 
> running kernel.
> 
> So I've attached a patch to specify an alternate kernel by setting the
> "TARGET_KERNEL" environment variable before running rpmbuild. You
> still need to have the rpm for the specified kernel installed, but at
> least it doesn't have to be currently running. It's kinda hackish, so
> if someone has a better way to do this, let me know.

That idea looks good although it maybe needs to be tweaked a bit more (what
you sent doesn't support packages named "kernel-smp"). I'd also prefer a
cleaner way than the env variable, and preferrably not editing the spec...
probably "--define 'target 2.4.xx-xx' --with smp". Sound good enough?
The BuildRequires on "kernel-source" will also need to be removed because
it won't necessarily need to be true, and that does bug me a bit :-/

More ideas are welcome.
Matthias

-- 
Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10acpi
Load : 0.08 0.06 0.03

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Once upon a time, ""Angles" wrote :

> Matthias Saou (matthias@egwn.net) wrote*:
> >You're really better off backuping all placed where you know you've hand
> >edited or installed some files. For me that's only /etc/, /root/ and
> >/home/. Then you reinstall cleanly, formating "/", put your /home/ files
> >back into place and you're ready to go.
> 
> Matthias I gotta believe you, I've been using your RPMs for some time now
> :) That's the way I'll do it.

I'm no "messiah", just do what you think suits you the best :-)

Matthias

-- 
Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10acpi
Load : 0.05 0.06 0.03

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Hey

Since I upgraded to redhat8 mplayer -vo sdl isnt working for me
It gives me black screen and I only hear sound.

can anyone help me with this ?

btw,
also the source rpm specified that I can do --without libdv
but it didn't work, worked for lirc and arts.

Thanks,
Roi




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1316.e019de5bb870ed83dc036c657cc4ca32.eml000066400000000000000000000070431444326627400313340ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Thu Oct  3 12:25:24 2002
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From: Matthias Saou 
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Once upon a time, Roi wrote :

> Since I upgraded to redhat8 mplayer -vo sdl isnt working for me
> It gives me black screen and I only hear sound.
> 
> can anyone help me with this ?

I'll test this as soon as I can.

> btw,
> also the source rpm specified that I can do --without libdv
> but it didn't work, worked for lirc and arts.

Should be fixed : You probably had libdv-devel installed and MPlayer
automatically detected it. The new spec file explicitely passes
--disable-libdv when the package is rebuilt with --without libdv.

Grab the "fr2.1" spec from here :
http://freshrpms.net/builds/index.html?build=mplayer

Matthias

-- 
Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10acpi
Load : 0.02 0.10 0.15

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 >> > Well, I don't really find it consistent at all to use an rpm package
 >> > built against something that wasn't installed through rpm :-/
 >>
 >> Following that reasoning, I've been installing all my custom-built
 >> kernels through rpm recently. I find it annoying, though, that
 >> alsa-kernel, and similar packages, will only build for the currently
 >> running kernel.
 >>
 >> So I've attached a patch to specify an alternate kernel by setting the
 >> "TARGET_KERNEL" environment variable before running rpmbuild. You
 >> still need to have the rpm for the specified kernel installed, but at
 >> least it doesn't have to be currently running. It's kinda hackish, so
 >> if someone has a better way to do this, let me know.
 >
 >That idea looks good although it maybe needs to be tweaked a bit more (what
 >you sent doesn't support packages named "kernel-smp"). I'd also prefer a
 >cleaner way than the env variable, and preferrably not editing the spec...
 >probably "--define 'target 2.4.xx-xx' --with smp". Sound good enough?
 >The BuildRequires on "kernel-source" will also need to be removed because
 >it won't necessarily need to be true, and that does bug me a bit :-/

	Me and my kernel rpm builds ... this all works along the same idea I have 
been aiming for, but the freaking RedHat Kernel srpms still have been stump 
...

	If we could get this and the alsa driver stuff working, it would be whole 
lot easier to try out a newer kernel ... but then the size of these rpms 
are huge, at least for us n^1 world courties ... ;-{ ...

	I will keep watching and hoping that somebody comes up with a great working 
idea ...

Thanks guys.
Mailed
Lee


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On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Mark Derricutt wrote:

> Anyone know where one could get rpms for alot of the python libraries for 
> 2.2?
> 
> Its darn annoying the way RH ship python 1.5.2 and python 2.2 (as python2) 
> and libs that only work with one or the other :(
> 
> esp. the pgdb and xml modules.
> 
> Anyone know why Red Hat insist on sticking with python 1.5.2?

They want to preserve binary compatibility for all .x releases. Red Hat 
8.0 has python 2.2 as default.

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Subject: Re: Python 2.2 site libs?
From: seth vidal 
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On Thu, 2002-10-03 at 08:16, Mark Derricutt wrote:
> Anyone know where one could get rpms for alot of the python libraries for=
=20
> 2.2?
>=20
> Its darn annoying the way RH ship python 1.5.2 and python 2.2 (as python2=
)=20
> and libs that only work with one or the other :(
>=20
> esp. the pgdb and xml modules.
>=20
> Anyone know why Red Hat insist on sticking with python 1.5.2?
>

they are on python 2.2 for 8.0 - but they don't like to break
compatibility during major releases.

therefore: 6.X was 1.5.2 b/c that was current
7.x was 1.5.2 b/c that was current when 7.0 was released.

-sv


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From: R P Herrold 
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Subject: Re: f-rpm] Python 2.2 site libs?
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On Fri, 4 Oct 2002, Mark Derricutt wrote:

> Anyone know why Red Hat insist on sticking with python 1.5.2?

ehhh?  IANAHNBARHE -- RHL 8.0 is fully python-2, with a back
compatability v 1 shim set.  This has been working and freely
available in their Raw Hide for 5 months for early adopters
and back-porters.

Red Hat maintains binary compatability across major releases.  
Its server management tools are heavily Python, and becoming 
more so.

To have added mid-stream the python-2 series in the RHL 7.x
series would have been quite disruptive to an existing 
installed base.

-- Russ Herrold



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From: Jesse Keating 
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On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 01:14:28 +0200
Vincent  wrote:

# Hello,
# 
# I'm looking for the package k3b for the redhat 8.0, Does anyone know
# 
# where to get it ? I tried to compile but it did an error message:

I've been working on a .src.rpm for it.  Their rpm and spec file is
very dirty, so I"m cleaning it up.  I think I have all the build-req's
and the install req's sorted out, but I need more testers.

http://geek.j2solutions.net/rpms/k3b/

Please try it.

-- 
Jesse Keating
j2Solutions.net
Mondo DevTeam (www.mondorescue.org)

Was I helpful?  Let others know:
 http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating

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Subject: apt.conf suggestion
From: Ville =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Skytt=E4?= 
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Hi,

how about applying this to the default apt.conf shipped with the
freshrpms.net apt package?  I found it a bit weird when the behaviour
changed between the old 0.3.x and the new 0.5.x versions so that when
doing a "apt-get upgrade", it wouldn't tell me *which* packages were to
be upgraded, just that it was about to upgrade something...

--- apt.conf	2002-09-27 14:58:28.000000000 +0300
+++ apt.conf	2002-10-03 21:38:05.000000000 +0300
@@ -4,6 +4,7 @@
   Get 
   {
      Download-Only "false";
+     Show-Upgraded "true";
   };
   
 };

-- 
\/ille Skytt�
ville.skytta at iki.fi


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From: Mark Derricutt 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
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Ahh sweet.  Theres a reason for me to upgrade then :-)

--On Thursday, October 03, 2002 16:20:46 +0300 Panu Matilainen 
 wrote:

> They want to preserve binary compatibility for all .x releases. Red Hat
> 8.0 has python 2.2 as default.



                                    -- \m/ --
  "...if I seem super human I have been misunderstood." (c) Dream Theater
         mark@talios.com - ICQ: 1934853 JID: talios@myjabber.net


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Jesse Keating wrote:

>On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 01:14:28 +0200
>Vincent  wrote:
>
># Hello,
># 
># I'm looking for the package k3b for the redhat 8.0, Does anyone know
># 
># where to get it ? I tried to compile but it did an error message:
>
>I've been working on a .src.rpm for it.  Their rpm and spec file is
>very dirty, so I"m cleaning it up.  I think I have all the build-req's
>and the install req's sorted out, but I need more testers.
>
>http://geek.j2solutions.net/rpms/k3b/
>
>Please try it.
>
>  
>
If I get troubles with the .tar.gz source file compilation, will it work 
with the .src.rpm source file compilation ?
If it will, how do I manage with a .src.rpm file, sorry, I don't remeber :(

Thanks.



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Once upon a time, Ville wrote :

> how about applying this to the default apt.conf shipped with the
> freshrpms.net apt package?  I found it a bit weird when the behaviour
> changed between the old 0.3.x and the new 0.5.x versions so that when
> doing a "apt-get upgrade", it wouldn't tell me *which* packages were to
> be upgraded, just that it was about to upgrade something...

Indeed, I found that strange too, then I noticed the "-u" switch and used
that... but your solution is much better :-) The next apt build will
incorporate this change (not worth a rebuild for this, and as some
relatively important cnc7 bugs are currently being fixed, I'd say cnc8
isn't far off!).

Matthias

-- 
Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10acpi
Load : 0.02 0.06 0.10

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On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 03:25:30 +0200
Vincent  wrote:

# If I get troubles with the .tar.gz source file compilation, will it
# work with the .src.rpm source file compilation ?
# If it will, how do I manage with a .src.rpm file, sorry, I don't
# remeber :(

The .src.rpm will prompt you for what packages you need to complete
the compile.

rpmbuild --rebuild --target=$arch file.src.rpm

-- 
Jesse Keating
j2Solutions.net
Mondo DevTeam (www.mondorescue.org)

Was I helpful?  Let others know:
 http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating

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checking build system type... i686-pc-linux-gnu
checking host system type... i686-pc-linux-gnu
checking target system type... Invalid configuration
`athalon-redhat-linux': machine `athalon-redhat' not recognized
configure: error: /bin/sh admin/config.sub athalon-redhat-linux failed
error: Bad exit status from /home/dale/rpmbuild/tmp/rpm-tmp.26673
(%prep)


RPM build errors:
    user jkeating does not exist - using root
    group jkeating does not exist - using root
    user jkeating does not exist - using root
    group jkeating does not exist - using root
    Bad exit status from /home/dale/rpmbuild/tmp/rpm-tmp.26673 (%prep)
[dale@gandalf dale]$



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oops, I am bad, I need to learn how to spell......


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Matthias Saou wrote:

>Once upon a time, Roi wrote :
>
>  
>
>>Since I upgraded to redhat8 mplayer -vo sdl isnt working for me
>>It gives me black screen and I only hear sound.
>>
>>can anyone help me with this ?
>>    
>>
>
>I'll test this as soon as I can.
>
>  
>
>>btw,
>>also the source rpm specified that I can do --without libdv
>>but it didn't work, worked for lirc and arts.
>>    
>>
>
>Should be fixed : You probably had libdv-devel installed and MPlayer
>automatically detected it. The new spec file explicitely passes
>--disable-libdv when the package is rebuilt with --without libdv.
>  
>
I didn't had libdv at all, I installed it just to install mplayer.

>Grab the "fr2.1" spec from here :
>http://freshrpms.net/builds/index.html?build=mplayer
>
>Matthias
>
>  
>





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Matthias Saou wrote:

>Once upon a time, Roi wrote :
>
>  
>
>>Since I upgraded to redhat8 mplayer -vo sdl isnt working for me
>>It gives me black screen and I only hear sound.
>>
>>can anyone help me with this ?
>>    
>>
>
>I'll test this as soon as I can.
>
>  
>
>>btw,
>>also the source rpm specified that I can do --without libdv
>>but it didn't work, worked for lirc and arts.
>>    
>>
>
>Should be fixed : You probably had libdv-devel installed and MPlayer
>automatically detected it. The new spec file explicitely passes
>--disable-libdv when the package is rebuilt with --without libdv.
>
>Grab the "fr2.1" spec from here :
>http://freshrpms.net/builds/index.html?build=mplayer
>
>Matthias
>
>  
>
The new spec didn't even want to build the package
something with config.mak
Also this new spec looks like the old one, it got libdv and libdv-devel
in the BuildRequires so I just used the normal spec and removed it manully.

Roi




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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: Mplayer
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Once upon a time, Roi wrote :

> The new spec didn't even want to build the package
> something with config.mak

Now that is weird! :-/

> Also this new spec looks like the old one, it got libdv and libdv-devel
> in the BuildRequires so I just used the normal spec and removed it
> manully.

Indeed, my boo-boo :-( Fixed now.

BTW, about the "mplayer -vo sdl" black screen problem you reported, I was
unable to reproduce it on my hom 8.0 computer, it worked as expected.

Matthias

-- 
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> `athalon-redhat-linux': machine `athalon-redhat' not recognized
> configure: error: /bin/sh admin/config.sub athalon-redhat-linux failed
> error: Bad exit status from /home/dale/rpmbuild/tmp/rpm-tmp.26673
> (%prep)

Woah ;) did you tweak some flags yourself, like default rpm flags ? What 
dist are you running ? I don't think there's an athalon-redhat-linux 
machine as standard ;) it should be some permutation of athlon and linux, 
and without redhat, but I can't tell for sure.   Any idea where your 
system might be setting this flag ?


 > RPM build errors:
>     user jkeating does not exist - using root
>     group jkeating does not exist - using root
>     user jkeating does not exist - using root
>     group jkeating does not exist - using root
>     Bad exit status from /home/dale/rpmbuild/tmp/rpm-tmp.26673 (%prep)

looks like the files are owned by the wrong user (ie the original spec 
builder).

Thomas

-- 

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    Damn, this thing is slick.  Someone seems to have done a very complete QA test on it; yesterday I installed it for the first time on an old Celeron box.  Sure, parts of it were slow, but compared to my more modern machine, everything is.  It was good; a beautiful interface that legions of 'sheep' can look at and say "Cool; I can understand this" and leave their shackles behind.  :)

    I was struck by the massive amount of applications, both KDE and Gnome, intuitively seperated NOT by the Gnome/KDE names, but by their **meanings** instead.  It's obvious that someone spent a lot of time improving the usability and graphics to make it more 'international'; the web browser graphic, for example, has a 'world' icon with a mouse wrapped around it. Office-apps have familiar pens, paper, and/or calculators involved.

    This is a Linux that I can plop down in front of almost anyone, and they can figure it out.

    At some point I'd miss the character of KDE/Gnome, and I'll probably 'hotrod' the graphics setup with my own themes, etc.  But for the wide release, this one's IT.  If you get a chance, try this; I think you'll be surprisingly pleased.
  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Fahrl�nder              Linux Zealot, Conservative, and Technomad
Evansville, IN                    My Voyage: http://www.CounterMoon.com
ICQ  5119262
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just machines, to make big decisions- programmed by fellas with
compassion and vision.  We'll be clean when that work is done;
Eternally free and eternally young.  Linux.

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Although it looks like I'm replying to myself, I just haven't gotten
Matthias' reply yet, although I can see it on the website (and I did
subscribe, but probably to the digest).

Anyway, Matthias wrote:
> Once upon a time, Steve wrote :
> 
> > I did apt-get update, and it seemed to have gotten the new packages
> 
> Hmmm, "it seems"? Check closer as this may be where the problem is
> coming
> from.
> > but doing things like "apt-get install synaptic" didn't work (neither
> > did other known packages, like apt-get install lame
> > 
> > I just get:
> > root@canarsie:/var/cache/apt # apt-get install lame
> > Reading Package Lists... Done
> > Building Dependency Tree... Done
> > E: Couldn't find package lame
> 
> Could you double check what "apt-get update" does? And eventually post
> the
> output if there are any errors or messages you don't understand.

OK, I did it again, and here's what I got:
root@canarsie:/tmp # apt-get update
Ign http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386 release
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/os pkglist
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/os release
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/updates pkglist
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/updates release
Get:1 http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/freshrpms pkglist [51.8kB]
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/freshrpms release
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/os srclist
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/updates srclist
Get:2 http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/freshrpms srclist [12.6kB]
Fetched 64.4kB in 2s (30.1kB/s)
Reading Package Lists... Done
root@canarsie:/tmp # apt-get install lame
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
E: Couldn't find package lame

root@canarsie:/var/cache/apt # ls -ltr
total 148
drwxr-xr-x    2 root     root         4096 Sep 29 10:49 gensrclist
drwxr-xr-x    2 root     root         4096 Sep 29 10:49 genpkglist
drwxr-xr-x    3 root     root         4096 Sep 29 10:49 archives
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root        49863 Oct  4 16:00 srcpkgcache.bin
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root       158131 Oct  4 16:00 pkgcache.bin
root@canarsie:/var/cache/apt # date
Fri Oct  4 16:03:15 EDT 2002

So, it looks like it worked, and the files are updated..  very strange.  

Maybe something went wrong updating apt from my old version (as used
with rh7.2), and this one.  Lemme try totally uninstalling and
reinstalling it..

root@canarsie:/ # rpm -e apt synaptic
warning: /etc/apt/sources.list saved as /etc/apt/sources.list.rpmsave
root@canarsie:/ # ls -l /etc/apt
total 4
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         1610 Oct  4 10:07
sources.list.rpmsave
root@canarsie:/ # rpm -ivh /tmp/apt-0.5.4cnc7-fr1.i386.rpm
warning: /tmp/apt-0.5.4cnc7-fr1.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key
ID e42d547b
Preparing...                ###########################################
[100%]
   1:apt                    ###########################################
[100%]
root@canarsie:/ # apt-get update
Ign http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386 release
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/os pkglist
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/os release
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/updates pkglist
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/updates release
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/freshrpms pkglist
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/freshrpms release
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/os srclist
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/updates srclist
Hit http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/freshrpms srclist
Reading Package Lists... Done
root@canarsie:/ # apt-get install synaptic
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
E: Couldn't find package synaptic
root@canarsie:/ #

Still no go...

I'm stumped.

-SteveK



> 
> Matthias
> 


-- 
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From: Matthias Saou 
To: Brian Fahrlander 
Cc: RPM-List 
Subject: Re: Alsa/Redhat 8 compatability
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Once upon a time, Brian wrote :

> 
>     I have a fresh, new 8.0 install.  I'd like to 'go alsa', but I worry
>     about screwing it up.  Is this fear founded?  If I could get Alsa, I
>     could run a bunch of games I've been waiting for years to come
>     out...like Search & Rescue (available on a Mandrake RPM) and maybe
>     FlightGear (flight simulator).

Well, I'm sure you can recompile those game packages without ALSA anyway.
Also, note that ALSA 0.9.x has just appeared in Mandrake 9.0 and that all
previous Mandrake releases were using the incompatible, aging and now
unsupported 0.5.x series. (unless I've misunderstood)

>     How much 'hacking' is likely required to make it work for an
>     SBLive/emu10k1 soundcard?

Near to none, it should be quite straightforward :
http://freshrpms.net/docs/alsa/

The only tricky part is editing the /etc/modules.conf file, but the ALSA
Soundcard Matrix has a page for every supported card with a section you can
most of the time simply copy and paste!

I really think that with my ALSA packages, ALSA on Red Hat Linux has never
been so easy! ;-)

Cheers,
Matthias

-- 
Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10
Load : 0.00 0.07 0.17, AC on-line, battery charging: 100% (1:47)

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From: "" Angles " Puglisi" 
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Subject: Re: Alsa/Redhat 8 compatability
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Matthias Saou (matthias@rpmforge.net) wrote*:
>I really think that with my ALSA packages, ALSA on Red Hat Linux has never
>been so easy! ;-)

I had been hand building those alsa packages for probably 6 months or more, so I
could use my laptop's ESS chip best (hard disk recording and such). Wow, maybe 8 to
10 months, time flys. I didn't look forward to doing that tedious build every time I
changed a kernel or something. Matthias has made this a thing of the past! Dude,
it's a no brainer, use apt-get or just download and install.

What's more, OSS is fully "imitated", older apps using OSS are as happy as a clam.
My personal taste tells me newer apps which use alsa sound better (alsaplayer, xmms
with alsa module) to my ear.

The 2 things that trick people are the modules.conf file, they didn't have that
automatic matrix page when I started with alsa, you don't know how good you have it.

And on my old installs (only the first time I installed it on a clean box), alsa
always was "muted" until you fire up a mixer and turn up the music. It's possible
Matthias even took care of that too. Anyway it is/was only a one time thing on 1st
install, that was a long time ago for me.

Those ALSA dudes had been trying to get it into the 2.4 kernel but missed it, but
it's been in 2.5 for a while now, so alsa is the future of sound in the linux kernel.

--
That's "angle" as in geometry.



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Matthias Haase wrote:
> RH ships the code with the bytecode hinter disabled which makes 
> non-AA fonts really ugly.
> This reqiures only a small change for include/freetype/config/ftoption.h,
> it is very well documented.

Red Hat 8.0 ships with the bytecode hinter enabled; I think 7.3 may have 
as well.

The enabling change to "ftoption.h" is made by Red Hat's SRPM before 
building.  Take a look at "freetype-2.1.1-enable-ft2-bci.patch" from the 
SRPM; it's pretty clear that this does exactly what needs to be done.

So if your fonts look ugly, lack of bytecode hinting is *not* the cause.


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I can't seem to build this package. It errors out because rpm found 
files not included in any of the packages. I tried getting them addes 
(it's the documentation that is being loaded) and was unsuccessful. 
Anyone get this to work?

Coy


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Subject: Xine dependencies
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On a RH 8 box, I'm trying to install your package
xine-0.9.13-fr5.i386.rpm, I keep running into dependency problems.  I've
tried to install the dev and lib rpm's as well and they error out with
dependency problems on each other (they each want something from the
other's package).

I've tried the --without options, but still end up with (similar for the
regular package),

	glut is needed by xine-libs-0.9.13-fr5
        aalib is needed by xine-libs-0.9.13-fr5
        lirc is needed by xine-libs-0.9.13-fr5
        libaa.so.1 is needed by xine-libs-0.9.13-fr5
        libglut.so.3 is needed by xine-libs-0.9.13-fr5

What am I missing here?

Thanks for your efforts.
QuaffAPint






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On 04 Oct 2002 22:25:31 -0400, QuaffA Pint  wrote:

> On a RH 8 box, I'm trying to install your package
> xine-0.9.13-fr5.i386.rpm, I keep running into dependency problems.  I've
> tried to install the dev and lib rpm's as well and they error out with
> dependency problems on each other (they each want something from the
> other's package).
> 
> I've tried the --without options, but still end up with (similar for the
> regular package),
> 
> 	glut is needed by xine-libs-0.9.13-fr5
>         aalib is needed by xine-libs-0.9.13-fr5
>         lirc is needed by xine-libs-0.9.13-fr5
>         libaa.so.1 is needed by xine-libs-0.9.13-fr5
>         libglut.so.3 is needed by xine-libs-0.9.13-fr5
> 
> What am I missing here?

    "apt-get install xine".  It'll find all these.  Oh, and I'm told that Redhat 8.0 will also suggest things like this for ya. (Not apt, but the actual package names you need)

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Fahrl�nder              Linux Zealot, Conservative, and Technomad
Evansville, IN                    My Voyage: http://www.CounterMoon.com
ICQ  5119262
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just machines, to make big decisions- programmed by fellas with
compassion and vision.  We'll be clean when that work is done;
Eternally free and eternally young.  Linux.

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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: Problem building lame-3.92-fr5.src.rpm on RH8
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Once upon a time, Coy wrote :

> I can't seem to build this package. It errors out because rpm found 
> files not included in any of the packages. I tried getting them addes 
> (it's the documentation that is being loaded) and was unsuccessful. 
> Anyone get this to work?

Hi,

Could you post the list of files in question? Maybe more docs get generated
when a certain doc tool is installed and that I didn't have it installed
when I rebuilt the package :-/

Matthias

-- 
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On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 10:45:04PM +0200, Matthias Saou wrote:
> > So I've attached a patch to specify an alternate kernel by setting the
> > "TARGET_KERNEL" environment variable before running rpmbuild. You
> > still need to have the rpm for the specified kernel installed, but at
> > least it doesn't have to be currently running. It's kinda hackish, so
> > if someone has a better way to do this, let me know.
> 
> That idea looks good although it maybe needs to be tweaked a bit more (what
> you sent doesn't support packages named "kernel-smp"). I'd also prefer a
> cleaner way than the env variable, and preferrably not editing the spec...
> probably "--define 'target 2.4.xx-xx' --with smp". Sound good enough?
> The BuildRequires on "kernel-source" will also need to be removed because
> it won't necessarily need to be true, and that does bug me a bit :-/

The "--define" is exactly what I was looking for! I was trying to
figure out a way to do it within the mechanism of rpm (like the
"--with" switches), but for some reason didn't think of using
"--define". My computer is currently gone for repairs, but once it's
back, I'll rewrite the specfile, add support for kernel-smp, and email
it to the list for further criticism :)

As far as requiring kernel-source, I don't feel it's a big problem. If
you're gonna go to the trouble of packaging custom kernels into rpms,
it's not a far stretch to package the source tree too (as I currently
do).

Also, I've found that the alsa-driver source needs a usb-related patch 
to compile under the latest test kernels (2.4.20-preX). Are other 
people seeing the same thing, or is this just a problem with my setup?

gary

P.S. If I didn't mention it before, thanks for the alsa packages! They 
greatly simplified what used to take way too long before.

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From: Matthias Saou 
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Subject: Re: Xine dependencies
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Once upon a time, QuaffA wrote :

> I've tried the --without options, but still end up with (similar for the
> regular package),
> 
> 	glut is needed by xine-libs-0.9.13-fr5

You need to install the "glut" package from Red Hat Linux 8.0 (and
"glut-devel" if you intend to recompile the source rpm).

>         aalib is needed by xine-libs-0.9.13-fr5
>         lirc is needed by xine-libs-0.9.13-fr5
>         libaa.so.1 is needed by xine-libs-0.9.13-fr5
>         libglut.so.3 is needed by xine-libs-0.9.13-fr5

Here you need both "aalib" and "lirc" from freshrpms.net. They're small,
they can be quite useful, that's why I've compiled xine with them as a
default.
You should be able to get rid of those two though, by rebuilding the source
rpm (otherwise it's a bug in my packaging!) :
rpmbuild --rebuild --without aalib --without lirc xine*.src.rpm

Matthias

-- 
Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10
Load : 0.06 0.13 0.09, AC on-line, battery charging: 100% (1:47)

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Subject: Re: Xine Dependencies
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Thanks Matthias...After installing those packages Xine now installs
fine.  Guess I shoulda figured that one out...

Thanks...
QuaffAPint





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On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 16:07:12 -0700
Ben Liblit  wrote:

> So if your fonts look ugly, lack of bytecode hinting is *not* the cause.

Well you are right, sorry, I didn't have any better idea yesterday late in
the evening.
The fonts are ugly only inside of gnome2 and clean for gnome1 apps, if
antialiasing is disabled. 
This is difficult to understand for me.

--
regards from Germany
                   Matthias
      

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Subject: Re: Problem building lame-3.92-fr5.src.rpm on RH8
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Matthias said:

>Could you post the list of files in question?

Sure. I used the following command to rebuild the package:

rpmbuild --rebuild --target i586 lame-3.92-fr5.src.rpm

And here is the error output for the files:

RPM build errors:
    user dude does not exist - using root
    user dude does not exist - using root
    Installed (but unpackaged) file(s) found:
   /usr/share/doc/lame/html/basic.html
   /usr/share/doc/lame/html/contributors.html
   /usr/share/doc/lame/html/examples.html
   /usr/share/doc/lame/html/history.html
   /usr/share/doc/lame/html/id3.html
   /usr/share/doc/lame/html/index.html
   /usr/share/doc/lame/html/lame.css
   /usr/share/doc/lame/html/modes.html
   /usr/share/doc/lame/html/node6.html
   /usr/share/doc/lame/html/switchs.html

Coy

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From: R P Herrold 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: f-rpm] Re: Problem building lame-3.92-fr5.src.rpm on RH8
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On Sat, 5 Oct 2002, Coy Krill wrote:

> Sure. I used the following command to rebuild the package:
> 
> rpmbuild --rebuild --target i586 lame-3.92-fr5.src.rpm
> 
> And here is the error output for the files:
> 
> RPM build errors:
>     user dude does not exist - using root
>     user dude does not exist - using root

harmless ...

>     Installed (but unpackaged) file(s) found:
>    /usr/share/doc/lame/html/basic.html
>    /usr/share/doc/lame/html/contributors.html
>    /usr/share/doc/lame/html/examples.html
>    /usr/share/doc/lame/html/history.html


This is a problem with the .spec file not accounting for all 
the files produced.  see: 
  http://www.rpm.org/hintskinks/unpackaged-files/   

-- Russ Herrold


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Same as in mplayer src package
the --with and --without not working correctly
I do --without arts and it still want to install with arts

Roi




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From: Matthias Saou 
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Once upon a time, Roi wrote :

> Same as in mplayer src package
> the --with and --without not working correctly
> I do --without arts and it still want to install with arts

This time the problem seems to be that I overestimated xine-lib's configure
script as it seems that it doesn't support disabling arts... so if you have
arts-devel installed, its support will be compiled in :-/

Also, I had made another mistake and added the configure option to disable
lirc ot xine-lib when it should have been for xine-ui.

All this is fixed in the upcoming "fr6" release.

Matthias

-- 
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Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10
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Subject: RH 8 no DMA for DVD drive
From: Alvie 
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hdparm -d1 /dev/hdc says Operation not Permitted.
DVD playback is very jumpy.
Does someone have any ideas on what I can do yo get DMA transfers?
Thanks Alvie




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Subject: Re: RH 8 no DMA for DVD drive
From: Chris Kloiber 
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On Sun, 2002-10-06 at 21:17, Alvie wrote:
> hdparm -d1 /dev/hdc says Operation not Permitted.
> DVD playback is very jumpy.
> Does someone have any ideas on what I can do yo get DMA transfers?
> Thanks Alvie

Add to /etc/modules.conf:

options ide-cd dma=1

-- 
Chris Kloiber

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Subject: Re: RH 8 no DMA for DVD drive
From: Alvie 
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Thank you, that was exactly what I needed.
DVD works great now.
1 more problem?
Video-DVDRip worked on RH 7.3 but can't get contents of DVD, last
message is 'libdvdread: using libdvdcss 1.2.2 for DVD access'.
but it fails.

On Sun, 2002-10-06 at 20:32, Chris Kloiber wrote:
> On Sun, 2002-10-06 at 21:17, Alvie wrote:
> > hdparm -d1 /dev/hdc says Operation not Permitted.
> > DVD playback is very jumpy.
> > Does someone have any ideas on what I can do yo get DMA transfers?
> > Thanks Alvie
> 
> Add to /etc/modules.conf:
> 
> options ide-cd dma=1
> 
> -- 
> Chris Kloiber
> 
> _______________________________________________
> RPM-List mailing list 
> http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list



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When I try to use apt-get upgrade
it wants to install libusb while I got it
(same version)
and all collapse because of this.

Roi





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From: Brian Fahrlander 
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On Mon, 07 Oct 2002 08:01:24 +0200, Roi Dayan  wrote:

> When I try to use apt-get upgrade
> it wants to install libusb while I got it
> (same version)
> and all collapse because of this.

    I had that too; I removed libusb (I don't think it needed --nodeps) and then 'apt-get -f install' and all was well.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Fahrl�nder              Linux Zealot, Conservative, and Technomad
Evansville, IN                    My Voyage: http://www.CounterMoon.com
ICQ  5119262
------------------------------------------------------------------------
angegangen, Schlange-H�ften, sein es ganz r�ber jetzt. B�gel innen fest,
weil es eine lange, s�sse Fahrt ist. 

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Hi,

In my build scripts, I have problems with some of the kernel packages.

For kernel-sources, I get :

Package kernel-source is a virtual package provided by:
  kernel-source#2.4.18-3 2.4.18-3
  kernel-source#2.4.18-3 2.4.18-3

on running apt-get install kernel-source

Now, first of all, this doesn't really tell me what the two options are ;)
Second, is there some way I can tell apt-get to install either ? This is 
done from automatic build scripts so I'd like it to proceed anyway.

Thanks,
Thomas

-- 

The Dave/Dina Project : future TV today ! - http://davedina.apestaart.org/
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Subject: Re: RH 8 no DMA for DVD drive
From: Ville =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Skytt=E4?= 
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On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 09:56, Matthias Saou wrote:

> > Thank you, that was exactly what I needed.
> > DVD works great now.
> 
> BTW, I think I'll kake it so that my ogle package automatically inserts
> this "options ide-cd dma=1" to /etc/modules.conf! It currently creates the
> /dev/dvd link to /dev/cdrom (which will work most of the time, if there's
> only one drive) if no /dev/dvd exists.

Eek.  Maybe it's just me, but I don't think that's a good idea. 
Outputting a message in %post and providing a README of some kind would
be better, as well as perhaps adding a note in %description.

-- 
\/ille Skytt�
ville.skytta at iki.fi


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From: Matthias Saou 
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Subject: Re: RH 8 no DMA for DVD drive
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Once upon a time, Ville wrote :

> > BTW, I think I'll kake it so that my ogle package automatically inserts
> > this "options ide-cd dma=1" to /etc/modules.conf! It currently creates
> > the/dev/dvd link to /dev/cdrom (which will work most of the time, if
> > there's only one drive) if no /dev/dvd exists.
> 
> Eek.  Maybe it's just me, but I don't think that's a good idea. 
> Outputting a message in %post and providing a README of some kind would
> be better, as well as perhaps adding a note in %description.

Why "Eek"? :-)
If no /dev/dvd exists, it'll create it.
If /dev/dvd exists, it won't touch it.
If someone installs ogle (a DVD player), I'm assuming the hardware is
recent enough for software playback and that the drive is a DVD-ROM... all
of them support DMA! But since that change requires a reboot or a manual
change, I'm still hesitating to integrate it :-/

My goal is to allow users to install a DVD player through synaptic and play
DVDs in no time. Outputting a message in the %post section of a package is
always a bad idea, putting the tip in the %description sounds good though.

Matthias

-- 
Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10acpi
Load : 0.07 0.14 0.16

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Subject: Re: RH 8 no DMA for DVD drive
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On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 08:59, Matthias Saou wrote:
> Once upon a time, Alvie wrote :
> 
> > Thanks, I seem to be having problems with rebuilding transcode from SRC
> > it gets confused from previous errors and gives up.
> 
> Could you give the output of the error?
>

This is only the last part of it.I used 'rpmbuild --rebuild --without avifile transcode.0.6.1-fr2.src.rpm'.
af6_decore.cpp:305: 'WAVEFORMATEX' is used as a type, but is not defined
as a
   type.
af6_decore.cpp:306: parse error before `if'
af6_decore.cpp:308: syntax error before `->' token
af6_decore.cpp:313: `wvFmt' was not declared in this scope
af6_decore.cpp:313: `avm_wave_format_name' was not declared in this
scope
af6_decore.cpp:314: `wvFmt' was not declared in this scope
af6_decore.cpp:315: `wvFmt' was not declared in this scope
af6_decore.cpp:316: `wvFmt' was not declared in this scope
af6_decore.cpp:316: ISO C++ forbids declaration of `fprintf' with no
type
af6_decore.cpp:316: redefinition of `int fprintf'
af6_decore.cpp:161: `int fprintf' previously defined here
af6_decore.cpp:316: initializer list being treated as compound
expression
af6_decore.cpp:317: 'WAVEFORMATEX' is used as a type, but is not defined
as a
   type.
af6_decore.cpp:318: syntax error before `->' token
af6_decore.cpp:321: `fmt' was not declared in this scope
af6_decore.cpp:321: `avm_wave_format_name' was not declared in this
scope
af6_decore.cpp:322: `fmt' was not declared in this scope
af6_decore.cpp:323: `fmt' was not declared in this scope
af6_decore.cpp:324: `fmt' was not declared in this scope
af6_decore.cpp:324: ISO C++ forbids declaration of `fprintf' with no
type
af6_decore.cpp:324: redefinition of `int fprintf'
af6_decore.cpp:316: `int fprintf' previously defined here
af6_decore.cpp:324: initializer list being treated as compound
expression
af6_decore.cpp:327: parse error before `if'
af6_decore.cpp:330: syntax error before `->' token
af6_decore.cpp:349: ISO C++ forbids declaration of `samples' with no
type
af6_decore.cpp:349: conflicting types for `int samples'
af6_decore.cpp:290: previous declaration as `unsigned int samples'
af6_decore.cpp:349: `fmt' was not declared in this scope
af6_decore.cpp:350: ISO C++ forbids declaration of `buffer_size' with no
type
af6_decore.cpp:350: conflicting types for `int buffer_size'
af6_decore.cpp:288: previous declaration as `unsigned int buffer_size'
af6_decore.cpp:350: `fmt' was not declared in this scope
af6_decore.cpp:351: ISO C++ forbids declaration of `buffer' with no type
af6_decore.cpp:351: conflicting types for `int buffer'
af6_decore.cpp:291: previous declaration as `char*buffer'
af6_decore.cpp:351: invalid conversion from `char*' to `int'
af6_decore.cpp:352: parse error before `if'
af6_decore.cpp:354: syntax error before `->' token
af6_decore.cpp:359: ISO C++ forbids declaration of `fflush' with no type
af6_decore.cpp:359: redefinition of `int fflush'

af6_decore.cpp:288: previous declaration as `unsigned int buffer_size'
af6_decore.cpp:350: `fmt' was not declared in this scope
af6_decore.cpp:351: ISO C++ forbids declaration of `buffer' with no type
af6_decore.cpp:351: conflicting types for `int buffer'
af6_decore.cpp:291: previous declaration as `char*buffer'
af6_decore.cpp:351: invalid conversion from `char*' to `int'
af6_decore.cpp:352: parse error before `if'
af6_decore.cpp:354: syntax error before `->' token
af6_decore.cpp:359: ISO C++ forbids declaration of `fflush' with no type
af6_decore.cpp:359: redefinition of `int fflush'
af6_decore.cpp:208: `int fflush' previously defined here
af6_decore.cpp:359: invalid conversion from `_IO_FILE*' to `int'
af6_decore.cpp:360: `ipipe' was not declared in this scope
af6_decore.cpp:360: `sync_str' was not declared in this scope
af6_decore.cpp:360: `sync_str' was not declared in this scope
af6_decore.cpp:360: ISO C++ forbids declaration of `p_write' with no
type
af6_decore.cpp:360: redefinition of `int p_write'
af6_decore.cpp:209: `int p_write' previously defined here
af6_decore.cpp:360: initializer list being treated as compound
expression
af6_decore.cpp:363: parse error before `while'
af6_decore.cpp:368: syntax error before `->' token
make[3]: *** [af6_decore.lo] Error 1
make[3]: Leaving directory
`/usr/src/redhat/BUILD/transcode-0.6.1/import'
make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[2]: Leaving directory
`/usr/src/redhat/BUILD/transcode-0.6.1/import'


> > Using trancode rpm I can't get transcode command line args to
> > work.Although it's been a while since I used it - maybe I forgot how!
>
This was a dumb mistake on my part. I did'nt have libdvdcss-devel, the
transcode command line args work fine now, but not so for DVD::RIP.
Thanks for help
Alvie
 
> I'm encoding a DVD to DivX4 right now on my home computer, and it works
> fine. My current Red Hat 8.0 build of transcode has avifile support
> disabled, that may be your problem? It's because gcc 3.2 isn't currently
> able to recompile avifile... :-/
> 
> Matthias
> 
> -- 
> Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
> Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10acpi
> Load : 0.09 0.12 0.21
> 
> _______________________________________________
> RPM-List mailing list 
> http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list



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From: Matthias Saou 
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Subject: Re: transcode build problem (was: RH 8 no DMA for DVD drive)
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Once upon a time, Alvie wrote :

> This is only the last part of it.I used 'rpmbuild --rebuild --without
> avifile transcode.0.6.1-fr2.src.rpm'.

> af6_decore.cpp:305: 'WAVEFORMATEX'
> is used as a type, but is not defined as a
>    type.
> af6_decore.cpp:306: parse error before `if'
[...]

All of these "af6" are related to avifile6 support :-/
Normally, my 0.6.1-fr2 build of transcode defaults to *not* use avifile,
but you can use "--with avifile6" to force recompiling against it.

Do you have an old avifile installed maybe?
Can you check the "./configure ..." line run at the beginning of the
rebuild process to see if it does include the "--without-avifile6" option?

Matthias

-- 
Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10acpi
Load : 0.23 0.14 0.14

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Subject: Re: RH 8 no DMA for DVD drive
From: Ville =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Skytt=E4?= 
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On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 19:36, Matthias Saou wrote:

> > Eek.  Maybe it's just me, but I don't think that's a good idea. 
> > Outputting a message in %post and providing a README of some kind would
> > be better, as well as perhaps adding a note in %description.
> 
> Why "Eek"? :-)
> If no /dev/dvd exists, it'll create it.
> If /dev/dvd exists, it won't touch it.

I assume that you won't %ghost or remove these and the modules.conf
change on uninstall, though.  So people who are installing this RPM and
are unfortunate enough to have a DVD drive (or just an ordinary CD,
non-DVD drive) that doesn't support DMA will be left with a system
without a working CD drive, even after removing the RPM.  And without
ever knowing what struck them.  You can't remove the DMA setting from
modules.conf either unless you're sure that ogle added it there and
nothing else needs it.

The /dev stuff isn't that dangerous, but the modules.conf change can
be.  That's why "Eek" :)

> If someone installs ogle (a DVD player), I'm assuming the hardware is
> recent enough for software playback and that the drive is a DVD-ROM... all
> of them support DMA! But since that change requires a reboot or a manual
> change, I'm still hesitating to integrate it :-/

A worthy goal...

> My goal is to allow users to install a DVD player through synaptic and play
> DVDs in no time. Outputting a message in the %post section of a package is
> always a bad idea, putting the tip in the %description sounds good though.

How about splitting the creation of the symlinks and modules.conf
modifications into a separate RPM?

-- 
\/ille Skytt�
ville.skytta at iki.fi


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Subject: Re: RH 8 no DMA for DVD drive
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Once upon a time, Ville wrote :

> I assume that you won't %ghost or remove these and the modules.conf
> change on uninstall, though.  So people who are installing this RPM and
> are unfortunate enough to have a DVD drive (or just an ordinary CD,
> non-DVD drive) that doesn't support DMA will be left with a system
> without a working CD drive, even after removing the RPM.  And without
> ever knowing what struck them.  You can't remove the DMA setting from
> modules.conf either unless you're sure that ogle added it there and
> nothing else needs it.

I've never heard of any CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive having problems with DMA...
although there probably is since Red Hat decided to default disabling it a
few releases back :-/
Normally, even if you try to enable DMA and your device doesn't support it,
it simply don't be able to make the change, and that's it. The problem IIRC
is with crappy hardware that is supposed to support DMA but doesn't work as
expected when it's enabled... maybe Chris could confirm this? ;-)

I guess I'll settle for the /dev/dvd link change as described and putting
the DMA tip in the %description :-)

Matthias

-- 
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Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10acpi
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Subject: Re: transcode build problem (was: RH 8 no DMA for DVD drive)
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On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 11:54, Matthias Saou wrote:
> Once upon a time, Alvie wrote :
> 
> > This is only the last part of it.I used 'rpmbuild --rebuild --without
> > avifile transcode.0.6.1-fr2.src.rpm'.
> 
> > af6_decore.cpp:305: 'WAVEFORMATEX'
> > is used as a type, but is not defined as a
> >    type.
> > af6_decore.cpp:306: parse error before `if'
> [...]
> 
> All of these "af6" are related to avifile6 support :-/
> Normally, my 0.6.1-fr2 build of transcode defaults to *not* use avifile,
> but you can use "--with avifile6" to force recompiling against it.
> 
> Do you have an old avifile installed maybe?
> Can you check the "./configure ..." line run at the beginning of the
> rebuild process to see if it does include the "--without-avifile6" option?
> 
Yes it was there.
You guessed the problem correctly in an earlier e-mail There was still
remnants remaining from an old failed avifile installation.
The transcode src.rpm now builds perfectly.
Thank you VERY much!
You are GOOD.
Alvie 
  
> Matthias
> 
> -- 
> Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
> Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10acpi
> Load : 0.23 0.14 0.14
> 
> _______________________________________________
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1363.8c11ccc4af2f95df4bc78e6dacd96a73.eml000066400000000000000000000074441444326627400316010ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Mon Oct  7 18:54:54 2002
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From: Jesse Keating 
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Subject: Re: RH 8 no DMA for DVD drive
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On Mon, 7 Oct 2002 19:28:51 +0200
Matthias Saou  wrote:

# I've never heard of any CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive having problems with
# DMA... although there probably is since Red Hat decided to default
# disabling it a few releases back :-/

When I worked as a PC repair tech for a Computer store chain, I did
run across quite a few DVD drives that would lock up if DMA was
enabled.  It's more of a chipset/drive problem than a Drive by itself.

-- 
Jesse Keating
j2Solutions.net
Mondo DevTeam (www.mondorescue.org)

Was I helpful?  Let others know:
 http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating

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Once upon a time, Jesse wrote :

> When I worked as a PC repair tech for a Computer store chain, I did
> run across quite a few DVD drives that would lock up if DMA was
> enabled.  It's more of a chipset/drive problem than a Drive by itself.

Chipset? Let me guess : VIA or SiS? :-))))
OK, so I'll follow Red Hat's choice of leaving the DMA setting alone and
orienting the users to some page explaining how to enable it "at your own
risk" ;-)

Matthias

-- 
Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10acpi
Load : 0.03 0.09 0.10

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Subject: Re: RH 8 no DMA for DVD drive
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On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 20:28, Matthias Saou wrote:

> I guess I'll settle for the /dev/dvd link change as described and putting
> the DMA tip in the %description :-)

Thanks, I'll sleep better now :)

-- 
\/ille Skytt�
ville.skytta at iki.fi


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Any plans for rolling Nessus RPMs for RH8?  Miss it already...

-- 
\/ille Skytt�
ville.skytta at iki.fi


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Once upon a time, Ville wrote :

> Any plans for rolling Nessus RPMs for RH8?  Miss it already...

Well, that's one of the 10 rpm-related mails leftover in my inbox I just
mentionned privately ;-)
As it's a big piece and needs some testing, I'm just bit lazy about it :-/

I'll try to packages it asap, or at least put up a "testing" version first
in case I fear some imperfections.

Matthias

-- 
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Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10acpi
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I've put up a new Red Hat Linux 8.0 build of nessus here :
http://ftp.freshrpms.net/pub/freshrpms/testing/nessus/

It's 100% untested, although the build should be ok. The new menu was
added, but some configuration files may be better with new or different
defaults.

Feedback is very welcome!

Matthias

-- 
Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10acpi
Load : 0.06 0.12 0.17

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1369.0df084ff7488653baa03642c485c233f.eml000066400000000000000000000067661444326627400310660ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Tue Oct  8 10:55:16 2002
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humberto@hpcf.upr.edu wrote:

>Redhat 8 disables all support for .mp3 files, relinking xmms with a zzmp3 
>module. Does anyone have a fixed spec file for xmms? One that can play mp3's 
>would be best.
>
>  
>
oh xmms didn't work for me also
i used mpg123 i tought its something from me
like mplayer not working also and gives black screen






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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1370.394569ba936fe18d6d9f2723e8c2d99f.eml000066400000000000000000000101611444326627400311610ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Tue Oct  8 15:30:59 2002
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Matthias Saou wrote:

>Once upon a time, Roi wrote :
>
>  
>
>>oh xmms didn't work for me also
>>i used mpg123 i tought its something from me
>>    
>>
>
>Nope, this is "normal" as Red Hat removed all mp3 support from 8.0 because
>of patent and royalty issues :-(
>On freshrpms.net, you can find the xmms mp3 plugin as I said, but also
>libmad, lame (mp3 encoder), and soon mpg321 as I often used it myself.
>Many other players can also play mp3 files, like alsaplayer, xine, mplayer.
>
>  
>
>>like mplayer not working also and gives black screen
>>    
>>
>
>This is not normal though...
>Try "mplayer -vo help" then try usinf various output methods to see if some
>do work or not.
>
>Matthias
>
>  
>

mplayer works with dga (if i am root) and works with x11
and always worked with sdl (but not now with redhat 8)
now it gives black screen window and play the music of the movie.

Roi




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1371.163cff388de55b3d4f3ac817fd8a3dd9.eml000066400000000000000000000066231444326627400314440ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Tue Oct  8 15:42:29 2002
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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: mplayer not working for me
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Once upon a time, Roi wrote :

> mplayer works with dga (if i am root) and works with x11
> and always worked with sdl (but not now with redhat 8)
> now it gives black screen window and play the music of the movie.

Strange, because as I said in an earlier post, it works for me. Maybe
you're missing the SDL_image or something? :-/

Matthias

-- 
Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10acpi
Load : 0.28 0.17 0.13

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Subject: Re: alsa-driver rebuild fails with undeclared USB symbol
From: Lance 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
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I know this is simple but do you have /usr/src/linux and
/usr/src/linux-2.4 symlinked to your kernel source directory?  Also is
there a .config in /usr/src/yourkernelsource/.config  ?

On Fri, 2002-08-30 at 21:56, Ben Liblit wrote:
> I am trying to rebuild the recently posted ALSA driver package for my 
> kernel.  Although I run Red Hat 7.3, I am not using a Red Hat kernel 
> package: my kernel is lovingly downloaded, configured, and built by 
> hand.  Call me old fashioned.
> 
> Sadly, the RPM rebuild fails part way through:
> 
>      % rpm --rebuild alsa-driver-0.9.0rc3-fr6.src.rpm
> 
>      gcc -DALSA_BUILD -D__KERNEL__ -DMODULE=1 \
>      -I/usr/src/redhat/BUILD/alsa-driver-0.9.0rc3/include \
>      -I/lib/modules/2.4.18/build/include -O2 \
>      -mpreferred-stack-boundary=2 -march=i686 -DLINUX -Wall \
>      -Wstrict-prototypes -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe   -DEXPORT_SYMTAB \
>      -c sound.c
> 
>      sound.c:41: `snd_hack_usb_set_interface' undeclared here (not in a \
>      function)
> 
>      sound.c:41: initializer element is not constant
> 
>      sound.c:41: (near initialization for \
>      __ksymtab_snd_hack_usb_set_interface.value')
> 
>      make[1]: *** [sound.o] Error 1
> 
> The line in question looks like this:
> 
> 	/* USB workaround */
> 	#if LINUX_VERSION_CODE < KERNEL_VERSION(2, 5, 24)
> 	#if defined(CONFIG_SND_USB_AUDIO) || \
> 	defined(CONFIG_SND_USB_AUDIO_MODULE) || \
> 	defined(CONFIG_SND_USB_MIDI) || \
> 	defined(CONFIG_SND_USB_MIDI_MODULE)
> -41-> 
> EXPORT_SYMBOL(snd_hack_usb_set_interface);
> 	#endif
> 	#endif
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> RPM-List mailing list 
> http://lists.freshrpms.net/mailman/listinfo/rpm-list
-- 
:
####[ Linux One Stanza Tip (LOST) ]###########################

Sub : Finding out files larger than given size       LOST #324

To find out all files in a dir over a given size, try:
find /path/to/dir_of_file -type f -size +Nk
[Where N is a number like 1024 for 1mb, and multiples thereof] 

####[Discussions on LIH : 04 Jul 2002]########################
:


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1378.12eda7069e9d8a08ba37f0e4679f23ea.eml000066400000000000000000000076201444326627400313020ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Mon Sep  2 12:34:20 2002
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Subject: Re: alsa-driver rebuild fails with undeclared USB symbol
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On Sat, 2002-08-31 at 08:28, Ben Liblit wrote:

> Well, I've figured out the problem.  I guess you could say it's an ALSA 
> bug.  When one configures using "--with-cards=all", ALSA blindly turns 
> on the various CONFIG_SND_USB_* macros even if CONFIG_USB is not 
> actually set.
[...]
> Matthias, would you please consider hooking up this patch in your 
> alsa-driver.spec?  It can be added in the obvious manner:
> 
> I suppose I should send this along to the ALSA developers as well.  For 
> them I'll produce a "proper" patch that makes the fix in "acinclude.m4". 
>   Or is someone else on this list already part of the ALSA developer 
> community, and willing to shepherd this through for me?

Not me, but IMHO it's kind of offtopic to put it in freshrpms.net RPMs. 
Upstream is the way to go...

-- 
\/ille Skytt�
ville.skytta at iki.fi


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From: Matthias Saou 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: alsa-driver rebuild fails with undeclared USB symbol
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Once upon a time, Ville wrote :

> Not me, but IMHO it's kind of offtopic to put it in freshrpms.net RPMs. 
> Upstream is the way to go...

Agreed, especially since my packages are primarily meant for the original
Red Hat Linux kernels. And someone removing USB support from his kernel is
probably not going to recompile ALSA with *all* the drivers anyway ;-)

Matthias

-- 
Matthias Saou                                World Trade Center
-------------                                Edificio Norte 4 Planta
System and Network Engineer                  08039 Barcelona, Spain
Electronic Group Interactive                 Phone : +34 936 00 23 23

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From: "" Angles " Puglisi" 
To: rpm-zzzlist@freshrpms.net
Subject: Re: ALSA (almost) made easy (gamix rocks)
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This mixer is specific to ALSA's special stuff, I use it in addition to the other
mixers if I need something special.

I built it a while ago, may need a --rebuild.

http://www.dudex.net/rpms/gamix-1.99.p13-aap1.i686.rpm
http://www.dudex.net/rpms/gamix-1.99.p13-aap1.src.rpm
http://www.dudex.net/rpms/gamix.spec

Matthias Saou (matthias@egwn.net) wrote*:
>
>Once upon a time, Ville wrote :
>
>> Ah!  The mixer stuff was what made me look for an init script in the
>> first place, I didn't bother to check whether the existing stuff would
>> have worked with that.  Will try that out, you can assume silence ==
>> success :)
>
>Well, from what I've tried, both the main and the PCM (at least) volume
>levels can be controlled either by "alsamixer" or the good old "aumix".
>
>> > >From what I can tell after only 2 days using it : ALSA rocks,
>> > >especially
>> > since having a full OSS compatibility results that it breaks nothing at
>> > all! :-)
>>
>> Agreed.  Though with only 2 hours experience...
>
>I guess/hope some other people from the list will try it out ;-)
>
>Both problems you reported (libasound.so and wrong xine dependency) are now
>fixed in the current packages.
>
>Oh, it's maybe also worth pointing out : I've implemented at last sorting
>by both last change date and alphabetically for my "build list" in the php
>code : http://freshrpms.net/builds/
>
>And yes, I accept patches/comments/suggestions about all those spec files!
>
>Matthias
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>RPM-List mailing list 
>

--
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1381.3c5527db01789ad42005006ac2ed2fcc.eml000066400000000000000000000140471444326627400311570ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rpm-list-admin@freshrpms.net  Mon Sep  2 13:15:10 2002
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From: "" Angles " Puglisi" 
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Subject: Fw: some (null) eyecandy packages
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If anyone here is running (null) beta then you may like these Gnome theme packages.
They are enhanced and repackages from my previous theme packs, this time to conform
to the way pre-release RH8 handles themes for GTK1 and GTK2.

RedHat has a preferences -> themes app, but themes only show up there that have BOTH
gtk1.2 (Gnome1) themes AND gtk1.4 (GTK2 aka Gnome2) themes available. Then RH will
apply the theme to both GTK versions, so the user does not really notice that
different GTK toolkit versions are being used, since they *should* look the same.

This "gtk2-engines-compat" RPM has GTK2 ported themes for those themes that are
included in the RH package "gtk-engines" themes pack for GTK1.

The "gtk1+2-themez" pack mostly repackages my previous theme RPMs in a way that the
(null) btea like, and supposedly the next RH8 when released :)

forward - original mail:
  From " Angles  Puglisi" 
  Date 09/01/2002 - 06:10:03 am
  Subject some (null) eyecandy packages

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I make these for myself, you may find them of interest. See the .spec file(s) for info.

http://www.dudex.net/rpms/gtk2-engines-compat-1.0-aap1.noarch.rpm
http://www.dudex.net/rpms/gtk2-engines-compat-1.0.spec

http://www.dudex.net/rpms/gtk1+2-themez-1.1-aap1.noarch.rpm
http://www.dudex.net/rpms/gtk1+2-themez-1.1.spec

You'll need gtk-engines, gtk2-engines, and a "thinice" engine for gtk2, this one
might be a old now but it works:

http://www.dudex.net/rpms/gtk2-thinice-engine-2.0.1-2.i386.rpm
http://www.dudex.net/rpms/gtk2-thinice-engine-2.0.1-2.src.rpm
http://www.dudex.net/rpms/gtk2-thinice-engine-2.0.1.spec

--
That's "angle" as in geometry.




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Subject: Problems with xosd-xmms
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After installing and enabling xosd-xmms I get the following error when
trying to start xmms

Xlib: unexpected async reply (sequence 0x30)!

xmms starts, but it does not detect mouse commands.

Thanks,
Mike
-- 
D. Michael Basinger
dbasinge@speakeasy.net


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From: Matthias Saou 
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Subject: Re: xine cannot play DVDs - "liba52: a52_block error"
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Once upon a time, Jon wrote :

> Since libdvdcss-1.2.0, I have been unable to play DVDs using ogle, xine,
> vlc, or mplayer.  They all show a scrambled picture with (VERY) choppy
> audio.  When I run xine I see tons of these in the console: 
> 
> liba52: a52_block error
> liba52: a52_block error
> liba52: a52_block error
> liba52: a52_block error
> audio_out: inserting 5859 0-frames to fill a gap of 10989 pts
> metronom: audio jump
> liba52: a52_block error
> 
> Has anyone seen this before and know how to fix it?  Or should I file a
> bug report?  

Hi,

First of all, sorry for not replying to your private email from last week,
but I really don't have a slight idea of what could be causing this!
- Is this with different DVDs or a single one?
- Is this using OSS or ALSA? Have you tried both?
- Is this using binariy packages or recompiling source ones?

I remember a user having trouble with a particular DVD ever since upgrading
libdvdcss to a recent version, but haven't heard the end of the story.

Matthias

-- 
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I've also just tried doing rpm --rebuilddb, no change.

A question:

Do these files look too small?  

root@canarsie:/var/cache/apt # ls -ltr
total 148
drwxr-xr-x    2 root     root         4096 Sep 29 10:49 gensrclist
drwxr-xr-x    2 root     root         4096 Sep 29 10:49 genpkglist
drwxr-xr-x    3 root     root         4096 Oct  8 19:59 archives
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root        49863 Oct  9 15:25 srcpkgcache.bin
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root       158131 Oct  9 15:25 pkgcache.bin


I ran strings on them, and it doesn't look like I see a complete listing
of either my system's installed RPMs, or the rpms in the lists:

root@canarsie:/var/state/apt/lists # ls -s
total 9988
 416 apt.freshrpms.net_redhat_8.0_en_i386_base_pkglist.freshrpms
8704 apt.freshrpms.net_redhat_8.0_en_i386_base_pkglist.os
   0 apt.freshrpms.net_redhat_8.0_en_i386_base_pkglist.updates
   4 apt.freshrpms.net_redhat_8.0_en_i386_base_release.freshrpms
   4 apt.freshrpms.net_redhat_8.0_en_i386_base_release.os
   4 apt.freshrpms.net_redhat_8.0_en_i386_base_release.updates
  64 apt.freshrpms.net_redhat_8.0_en_i386_base_srclist.freshrpms
 788 apt.freshrpms.net_redhat_8.0_en_i386_base_srclist.os
   0 apt.freshrpms.net_redhat_8.0_en_i386_base_srclist.updates
   0 lock
   4 partial


If I kill them, they get recreated about the same size next time I run
apt-get..

-SteveK


On Tue, Oct 08, 2002 at 08:01:48PM -0400, Steve Kann wrote:
> 
> I posted about this last week, and I'm still stumped.  apt-get is just
> not working for me, and I can't figure out what the problem is.
> 
> I've tried removing the apt rpms, making sure to remove any traces left
> behind (/etc/apt /var/state/apt /var/cache/apt), and still, I get
> "couldn't find package xmms-mp3" when running "apt-get install xmms-mp3".
> 
> Any clues?  Here's a log of a fresh try:
> 
> root@canarsie:/tmp # rpm -e apt apt-devel
> root@canarsie:/tmp # rm -rf /etc/apt /var/cache/apt /var/state/apt
> root@canarsie:/tmp # rpm -ivh apt-0.5.4cnc7-fr1.i386.rpm apt-devel-0.5.4cnc7-fr1.i386.rpm
> warning: apt-0.5.4cnc7-fr1.i386.rpm: V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID
> e42d547b
> Preparing...                ########################################### [100%]
>    1:apt                    ########################################### [ 50%]
>    2:apt-devel              ########################################### [100%]
> root@canarsie:/tmp # apt-get update
> Ign http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386 release
> Get:1 http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/os pkglist [1276kB]
> Get:2 http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/os release [108B]
> Get:3 http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/updates pkglist [14B]
> Get:4 http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/updates release [113B]
> Get:5 http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/freshrpms pkglist
> [57.1kB]
> Get:6 http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/freshrpms release
> [125B]
> Get:7 http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/os srclist [152kB]
> Get:8 http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/updates srclist [14B]
> Get:9 http://apt.freshrpms.net redhat/8.0/en/i386/freshrpms srclist
> [14.4kB]
> Fetched 1500kB in 11s (125kB/s)
> Reading Package Lists... Done
> root@canarsie:/tmp # apt-get install xmms-mp3
> Reading Package Lists... Done
> Building Dependency Tree... Done
> E: Couldn't find package xmms-mp3
> root@canarsie:/tmp # apt-cache search xmms
> root@canarsie:/tmp #
> 
> 
> Beats me..
> 
> -SteveK
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
>   Steve Kann - Chief Engineer - 520 8th Ave #2300 NY 10018 -  (212) 533-1775
>                 HorizonLive.com - collaborate . interact . learn
>    "The box said 'Requires Windows 95, NT, or better,' so I installed Linux."

-- 
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Should I expect problems if my apt server is running RH 7.3/Apt 0.3 and
some clients are coming on line and will be running RH 8.0/Apt 0.5? Do
the two different version interoperate?

Thanks,

tjb
-- 
=======================================================================
| Thomas Baker                                  email: tjb@unh.edu    |
| Systems Programmer                                                  |
| Research Computing Center                     voice: (603) 862-4490 |
| University of New Hampshire                     fax: (603) 862-1761 |
| 332 Morse Hall                                                      |
| Durham, NH 03824 USA              http://wintermute.sr.unh.edu/~tjb |
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Once upon a time, Thomas wrote :

> Should I expect problems if my apt server is running RH 7.3/Apt 0.3 and
> some clients are coming on line and will be running RH 8.0/Apt 0.5? Do
> the two different version interoperate?

No problems whatsoever. Currently apt.freshrpms.net is running 7.3 with apt
0.3 and many 8.0 clients with 0.5 are using it.

Matthias

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Subject: dvd::rip on Red Hat 8.0?
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Hello,

Has anyone made a working source RPM for dvd::rip for Red Hat 8.0?
Matthias has a spec file on the site for 0.46, and there are a couple of
spec files lying around on the dvd::rip website, including one I patched
a while ago, but it appears that the Makefile automatically generated is
trying to install the Perl libraries into the system's, and also at the
moment dvd::rip needs to be called with PERLIO=stdio as it seems to not
work with PerlIO on RH8's Perl.

Not too sure what the cleanest way to fix this is - anyone working on
this?

Thanks,

-- 
Michèl Alexandre Salim
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From: Matthias Saou 
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Once upon a time, Mich�l wrote :

> Has anyone made a working source RPM for dvd::rip for Red Hat 8.0?

I don't think I've tried yet, but if I did, I probably moved on to another
package after having bumped into one of the problems you mention.

If anyone sends me a patch to my spec file and eventually needed patches
etc., I'd be more than glad to make a new build available.

Matthias

-- 
Clean custom Red Hat Linux rpm packages : http://freshrpms.net/
Red Hat Linux release 7.3 (Valhalla) running Linux kernel 2.4.18-10acpi
Load : 0.13 0.09 0.09

_______________________________________________
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1399.5ee3b9902af076cc63e0c4e612f99ba0.eml000066400000000000000000000157251444326627400313010ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: nobody@dogma.slashnull.org  Fri Aug 23 12:20:28 2002
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BlogStart: 

**Dublin**: something from the archives.    Daev Walsh forwards an article from
The Irish Digest about ''Billy in the Bowl''.  This story is also immortalised
in an old Dublin song, which in turn was mentioned in a Pogues track.  Billy
was a legless beggar in the alleys of Stoneybatter and Grangegorman (where I
now live) during the 18th century, who discovered a new, but not entirely
legal, way to make money.

BlogEnd: 
LinkText: Billy in the Bowl

From:         daev 
Subject:      The Case of the Stoneybatter Strangler

A story of my new neighbourhood...


The Irish Digest July 1964


The Case of the Stoneybatter Strangler

The handsome, deformed Billy in the Bowl evolved a plan to rob his donors.
Then, one night, he made the biggest mistake of his life 

DUBLIN in the eighteenth century was noted for two things - the
architectural beauty of its public buildings and the large number of
beggars who sought alms in its maze of streets and lanes.  Many of these
beggars relied on visitors and the gentry for their coin, but there was one
who campaigned among the working class.  This was "Billy In The Bowl"

The strange appellation was derived from the fact that Billy's sole means
of transport was a large bowl-shaped car with wheels.  Seated in this "
bowl ", the beggar would propel himself along by pushing against the ground
with wooden plugs, one in each hand.

Billy's unusual means of conveyance was vitally necessary, as he had been
born without legs.  Nature, however, had compensated for this by endowing
him with powerful arms and shoulders and, what was most important, an
unusually handsome face.

This was Billy's greatest asset in his daily routine of separating
sympathetic passers-by from their small change.

The cunning young beggar would wait at a convenient spot on one of the many
lonely roads or lanes which were a feature of eighteenth century
Grangegorman and Stoneybatter, until a servant girl or an old lady would
come along.

He would then put on is most attractive smile which, together with his
black curly hair, never failed to halt the females.  The fact that such a
handsome young man was so terribly handicapped physically always evoked pity.

"Billy in the Bowl", however, wasn't satisfied with becoming the daily
owner of a generous number of small coins; what his greed demanded were
substantial sums of money.  The more he managed to get the more he could
indulge in his pet vices - gambling and drinking.

As a result the beggar evolved a plan to rob unsuspecting sympathisers.
The first time lie put his plan into operation was on a cold March evening
as dusk, was falling.  The victim was a middle aged woman who was passing
through Grangegorman Lane on her way to visit friends in Queen Street - on
Dublin's North Quays.

When Billy heard the woman's footsteps, he hid behind some bushes in a
ditch which skirted the lane.  As his unsuspecting victim drew close, the
beggar moaned and shouted, and cried out for help.

Trembling with excitement, the woman dashed to the spot where Billy lay
concealed.  She bent down to help the beggar out of the ditch, when two
powerful arms closed around her throat and pulled her into the bushes.

In a few minutes it was all over.  The woman lay in a dead faint, and Billy
was travelling at a fast rate down the lane in his " bowl ", his victirn's
purse snug in his coat pocket.  An hour after the robbery the woman was
found in a distracted condition, but failed to give a description of her
assailant.  And, as "Billy in the Bowl" had figured, nobody would suspect a
deformed beggar.

Again and again the beggar carried out his robbery plan, always shifting
the place of attack to a different part of Grangegorman or  Stoneybatter.

On one occasion " Billy in "the Bowl " tried his tactics on a sturdy
servant girl who put up such a vigorous resistance that he was forced to
strangle her.  The incident became known as the 11 Grangegorman Lane Murder
and caused a great stir.

Hundred.s flocked to the scene of the crime and for a couple of months
"Billy in the Bowl" was forced to desert his usual haunts.  Around this
period, Dublin's first-ever police force was been mobilised, and the first
case they were confronted with was the Grangegorman lane murder.

Months passed and  "Billy in the Bowl" reverted once again to his old
pasttime.  A number of young servant girls were lured into ditches and
robbed, and the police were inundated with so many complaints that a
nightly patrol was placed on the district.  But the beggar still rolled
along in his "bowl" pitied and unsuspected.  Then came the night that
finished Billy's career of crime.

Two stoudy built female cooks, trudging back to their places of employment
after a night out in the city, were surprised and not a little shocked to
hear shouts for help.  Rushing over, they came upon a huddled figure in the
ditch.

Billy, thinking there was only one woman, grabbed one of the cooks and
tried to pull her into the ditch.  She proved much too strong for him,
however) and while resisting tore 'at his face with her sharp finger-nails.

Meanwhile, her companion acted with speed and daring.  Pulling out her
large hatpin she made .for the beggar, and plunged the pin into his right eye.

The screams and howls of the wounded beggar reverberated throughout the
district and brought people dashing to the scene.  Among them was a member
of the nightly police patrol who promptly arrested the groaning Billy.

"Billy in the Bowl" was tried and sentenced for robbery with violence, but
they could never prove it was he who had strangled the servant girl.  The
Grangegorman-Stoneybatter district became once again a quiet, attractive
Dublin suburb where old ladies strolled, and carefree servant girls laughed
and giggled as they wended their way home at night.



daev

_______________________________
Rev.  Dave 'daev' Walsh, daev@fringeware.com
Home:  http://www.fringeware.com/hell
Weekly Rant: http://www.nua.ie/blather
'Is it about a bicycle?'-Sgt.Pluck, 
'The Third Policeman', by Flann O'Brien
________________________________
Holistic Pet Detective, Owl Worrier, Snark Hunter 
________________________________



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1400.2e82a3803e51f420c6398d963052469f.eml000066400000000000000000000074771444326627400306370ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Aug 23 11:06:18 2002
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Subject: [Razor-users] honor is not in csl
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Folks, 

Some of you seem to have hardcoded honor as the default catalogue server.
There are three catalogue only servers running now, and honor is acting
as a nomination only server. Tonight we will be completely turning off
catalogue support on honor, so if you are specifying honor with the -rs
option, please take it out and let the agents discover a closeby
catalogue server.

cheers,
vipul.


-- 

Vipul Ved Prakash          |   "The future is here, it's just not 
Software Design Artist     |    widely distributed."
http://vipul.net/          |              -- William Gibson



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1401.2d453d45aa06dec5a5a98bba8d81fdc5.eml000066400000000000000000000045641444326627400314740ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: craig@deersoft.com  Fri Aug 23 11:07:09 2002
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Cc: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason),
	"Malte S. Stretz" ,
	SpamAssassin Talk ML 
To: Scott A Crosby 
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I never claimed it could learn *all* combinatorial 
possibilities, but it certainly can learn some.

C

On Thursday, August 22, 2002, at 07:21  PM, Scott A Crosby wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Aug 2002 09:20:05 -0700, Craig R.Hughes 
>  writes:
>
>> It *can* learn combinatorial stuff in a more subtle way.  Imagine
>
> No it can't..
>
> It can learn a few examples that happen to be linearily seperable,
> like those you gave. It cannot learn the example I gave below, which
> is not linearily seperable.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1402.e74c8db27ea79025c2afa3b7298d8ebb.eml000066400000000000000000000071741444326627400314310ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Aug 23 11:12:01 2002
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Hello all,
I get problems with the latest nightly build from Spamassassin with
VMailMgr + OMail-Admin. 
It scans the mail and gives it an :

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Can someone look at the code for it? Maybe because option -F is gone?


Greetings
Erik Rudolfs



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"Craig R.Hughes" said:

> Are you filtering the nonspamtrap for spam when those 
> newsletters sold your address to someone you didn't sign up 
> with?  You should probably manually verify that all the mail in 
> the trap is in fact nonspam!

Yep.  so far it's all opt-in stuff, no "affiliate deals" etc.

--j.


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To: "Craig R.Hughes" ,
	jm@jmason.org (Justin Mason)
From: Justin Shore 
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Highest-scoring false positive
Cc: SpamAssassin List 
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Like an alias for each list that points to the nonspamtrap address.

J


At 10:50 AM -0700 8/22/02, Craig R.Hughes wrote:
>Are you filtering the nonspamtrap for spam when those newsletters 
>sold your address to someone you didn't sign up with?  You should 
>probably manually verify that all the mail in the trap is in fact 
>nonspam!
>
>C
>
>On Thursday, August 22, 2002, at 07:59  AM, Justin Mason wrote:
>
>>
>>Justin Shore said:
>>
>>>I just ran across a false positive that scored 8.6.  The message was
>>>a solicited ad from Apple.com on educator deals.  I can send a copy
>>>if anyone wants it.
>>
>>Yes, please do send it on, and I'll add it to the non-spam corpus.
>>
>>To date, the scores evolved by SpamAssassin are very biased towards
>>non-HTML, non-newsletter-ish mail.  This release should be different, as
>>I've been spending the last month signing up a "nonspamtrap" to every
>>legit newsletter I can find ;)
>>
>>This should mean that tests which match common-enough newsletter practices
>>will no longer get such high scores once we re-run the GA.

-- 

--
Justin Shore, ES-SS ES-SSR                Pittsburg State University
Network & Systems Manager                 http://www.pittstate.edu/ois/


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From: Ken Scott 
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As the subject line indicates, I'm sure these are stupid questions, but
I'm having trouble getting SA working like I understand it should work,
and have about given up on trying to figure it out myself.

If a user has a line like:

whitelist_from *@yahoogroups.com

in his .spamassassin/user_prefs file, does that line not, in effect,
tell the program to take no action at all against any mail coming in from
yahoogroups.com, or is there still checking being done against it?  And if
the latter, what does he need to place in user_prefs to cause such mail
to be ignored?  I'm testing SA here with a few users who happen to be on
yahoogroups lists, before deploying it system-wide, and although the above
line has been added to their user_prefs files, much of their list mail is
still going to the spam folder due to all the usual things you would
expect to trigger SA.

Thanks in advance for any help.

--
Ken Scott,
admin@shellworld.net




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On Thu, Aug 22, 2002 at 01:01:44PM -0500, Ken Scott wrote:
> whitelist_from *@yahoogroups.com
>=20
> in his .spamassassin/user_prefs file, does that line not, in effect,
> tell the program to take no action at all against any mail coming in from
> yahoogroups.com, or is there still checking being done against it?  And if

It still gets checked, but a negative score is added in.  And it doesn't
mean "coming in from" it means "From: address is @yahoogroups.com".
There's a Yahoo Groups compensation rule in 2.40 though. :)

> the latter, what does he need to place in user_prefs to cause such mail
> to be ignored?  I'm testing SA here with a few users who happen to be on

ignored completely?  you can't do that, put in a procmail rule.

> yahoogroups lists, before deploying it system-wide, and although the above
> line has been added to their user_prefs files, much of their list mail is
> still going to the spam folder due to all the usual things you would
> expect to trigger SA.

You'd want to either add your own compensation rule or up (negatively)
the whitelist score.

--=20
Randomly Generated Tagline:
There are perfectly good answers to those questions, but they'll have
 to wait for another night.
=20
 		-- Homer Simpson
 		   Homers Barbershop Quartet

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To: spamassassin-commits@example.sourceforge.net
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Subject: [SACVS] CVS: spamassassin/masses mass-check,1.67,1.67.2.1
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Update of /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/masses
In directory usw-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv440/masses

Modified Files:
      Tag: b2_4_0
	mass-check 
Log Message:
Fixes, additions to mass-check

Index: mass-check
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/masses/mass-check,v
retrieving revision 1.67
retrieving revision 1.67.2.1
diff -b -w -u -d -r1.67 -r1.67.2.1
--- mass-check	20 Aug 2002 12:29:32 -0000	1.67
+++ mass-check	22 Aug 2002 18:13:30 -0000	1.67.2.1
@@ -96,6 +96,7 @@
 
 print "# mass-check results from $who\@$where, on $when\n";
 print "# M:SA version ".$spamtest->Version()."\n";
+print '# CVS tag: $Name$',"\n";
 $iter->set_function (\&wanted);
 $iter->run (@ARGV);
 exit;
@@ -132,6 +133,8 @@
   my $tests = $status->get_names_of_tests_hit();
 
   $tests = join(',', sort(split(/,/, $tests)));
+
+  $id =~ s/\s/_/g;
 
   printf "%s %2d %s %s\n",
 		    ($yorn ? 'Y' : '.'),



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Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 11:19:57 -0700
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X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.9 required=7.0
	tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,FOR_FREE,IN_REP_TO,
	      KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03,
	      USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL
	version=2.40-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

I think with the confusion and all, we should give these folks 
until the end of the day to get fixed logs uploaded :)

Justin, on a related note -- I didn't include the spamtrap stuff 
from the corpus directory on your server in my logs, but that 
should definitely be in there -- don't know if you'd included it 
in yours or not.  I think it's from Kelsey's mailtraps...

C

On Thursday, August 22, 2002, at 09:49  AM, Justin Mason wrote:

> Files that are out of date (as far as I can tell -- they have no date
> comment), and will be ignored:
>
>         nonspam-danielp.log
>         nonspam-danielr.log
>         nonspam-duncan.log
>         nonspam-james.log
>         nonspam-laager.log
>         nonspam-messagelabs.log
>         nonspam-msquadrat.log
>         nonspam-olivier.log
>         nonspam-oliviern.log
>         nonspam-quinlan.log
>         nonspam-rodbegbie.log
>         nonspam-sean.log
>         nonspam-theo.log



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Cc: SAtalk 
To: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
From: "Craig R.Hughes" 
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	      USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL
	version=2.40-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 


On Thursday, August 22, 2002, at 09:36  AM, Justin Mason wrote:

>
> "Craig R.Hughes" said:
>
>> I thought we'd sort of decided that after 2.40 we'd switch the
>> meaning of the "lang" prefix to actually mean "run these rules
>> if language matches", where "language" is what TextCat spits out
>> for a message, as opposed to using the locale which is how
>> things currently work.
>
> ah, right -- I'd forgotten that.  :(
>
> doesn't help with the finding-broken-rules QA case though...

It does, if you have a corpus of german spam and nonspam to feed 
it, and you're not in a de locale.

C



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1410.8a6f57da7baff41f04a9d273a8dcf8c6.eml000066400000000000000000000112011444326627400314760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Aug 23 11:12:34 2002
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Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Re: SA In The News
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v482)
Cc: Scott A Crosby ,
	Matthew Cline ,
	SpamAssassin Talk ML 
To: "Tony L. Svanstrom" 
From: "Craig R.Hughes" 
In-Reply-To: <20020822190440.Q66093-100000@moon.campus.luth.se>
Message-Id: <2635D258-B5FC-11D6-A91E-00039396ECF2@deersoft.com>
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	tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,FOR_FREE,IN_REP_TO,
	      KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_08_13,
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X-Spam-Level: 

So do you know my public key?  Does the guy who wants to buy 
10,000 licenses of SpamAssassin Pro?  Do I really want to lose 
email from either of you?

C

On Thursday, August 22, 2002, at 10:13  AM, Tony L. Svanstrom wrote:

> On Thu, 22 Aug 2002 the voices made Craig R.Hughes write:
>
>> Trouble is, you don't necessarily know ahead of time who's 
>> wanting to send
>> you stuff.  I don't have your PGP public key on my keychain.  
>> You can do all
>> the signing you want, it's not going to help.  However, if you 
>> stick a Habeas
>> header in your mail, I can (hopefully) be reasonably sure that 
>> you're not
>> trying to spam me.  It is going to be all about enforcement 
>> though; we'll
>> have to see how they do on enforcement.
>
>  Signing messages to someone ('s public key) isn't impossible, 
> using some
> creative scripting you could even do it with OpenPGP-compatible 
> software...



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1411.a455fcdcc40a1a29551cc0153a9450bf.eml000066400000000000000000000100511444326627400312160ustar00rootroot00000000000000Replied: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 16:43:19 +0100
Replied: Luiz Felipe Ceglia 
Replied: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Mon Aug 26 15:41:16 2002
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To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
From: Luiz Felipe Ceglia 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Subject: [SAtalk] help with postfix + spamassassin
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Hi Folks,

I have just installed spamassassin 2.31 in my postfix MTA server.

At first, I would like to test it just in my email account before 
applying it to the wole site.

I configured just as in the INSTALL file:

	5. Create a .forward...
	"|IFS=' ' && exec /usr/bin/procmail -f- || exit 75 #user"
	6. create a .procmailrc
	:0fw
	| /usr/bin/spamassassin -c 
			/etc/mail/spamassassin/rules

But the spams get trought it untouched. When I run it by the hand:

cat sample-spam.txt | /usr/bin/spamassassin -c 
				/etc/mail/spamassassin/rules

it does tag it as spam and send me the email.

what should I look at?

Thank you,


-- 
Luiz Felipe Ceglia 	-  Staff TereNet
lceglia@terenet.com.br	-  +55-21-9135-3679




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	tests=FOR_FREE,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05
	version=2.40-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Vernon Schryver 
To: dcc@calcite.rhyolite.com
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 09:09:05 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Version 1.1.11 of the DCC

ersion 1.1.11 of the DCC source is in
http://www.rhyolite.com/anti-spam/dcc/source/dccd.tar.Z and
http://www.dcc-servers.net/dcc/source/dccd.tar.Z

http://www.rhyolite.com/anti-spam/dcc/dcc-tree/CHANGES and
http://www.dcc-servers.net/dcc/dcc-tree/CHANGES start with

    fix dccm bugs with handling a non-responsive server.
    change misc/hackmc to modify sendmail.cf to reject unauthorized relay
	attempts with a temporary failure when they are supposed to be sent
	to the DCC but dccm is not running.  This prevents leaking relay
	relay spam.  You must use the new hackmc script to install this
	change in sendmail.cf.
    remove "# whitelisted" from `cdcc stats` output to give more room
	for totals.
    prevent empty dccproc log files as noted by Krzysztof Snopek.
    even fatal errors should cause dccproc to exit with 0 to avoid
	rejecting mail, as noted by Krzysztof Snopek.
    When server hostnames have common IP addresses, prefer the server
	with the non-anonymous client-ID, noted by Krzysztof Snopek.


Vernon Schryver    vjs@rhyolite.com
_______________________________________________
DCC mailing list      DCC@rhyolite.com
http://www.rhyolite.com/mailman/listinfo/dcc



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Cc: SpamAssassin Talk ML 
To: Bart Schaefer 
From: "Craig R.Hughes" 
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	tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,FOR_FREE,IN_REP_TO,
	      KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,
	      SUBJECT_IS_NEWS,USER_AGENT_APPLEMAIL
	version=2.40-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

There is a whitelist RBL now!  Ironport's Bonded Sender is 
basically a whitelist RBL where you post a bond to get on the 
list, and then lose the bond if you end up spamming from that IP 
address (or something like that).  http://www.bondedsender.org/

C

On Sunday, August 25, 2002, at 07:58  PM, Bart Schaefer wrote:

>> 4. DNSBL: Only certifies an ip address, not who is using it. As it is
>> currently used, DNSBL allows you to look up if some IP address 
>> has been
>> blacklisted by someone. What I haven't seen is a service that 
>> provides a
>> DNS based whitelist.
>
> There's a practical reason for that:  Any DNS list (white or 
> black) works
> only for a limited number of IPs; the set of unlisted IPs is 
> much larger
> than the set in the DNS list.  If you have to make a binary decision to
> accept or reject, you'll be wrong less often if you reject the 
> blacklist
> and accept everything else, rather than accept the whitelist and reject
> everything else.
>
> A whitelist is only helpful when (a) you only want mail from a limited
> number of known sources, or (b) you can use a secondary system 
> like SA to
> decide what to do with the vast unlisted masses.  Most MTAs still make
> only the binary decision, because the secondary computation is 
> expensive.
>
> With SA's cooperation, though, it might be worth a try.  Even better if
> one could get commercial anti-spam outfits to agree to factor it in.



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To: Justin Mason ,
	SpamAssassin-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAdev] Re: several messages
References: <20020826150231.3DD4E43F99@phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com>
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X-Spam-Level: 

Political news T R U T H O U T uses it too.

Justin Mason wrote:
>>>>  0.978    0.540    1.184    0.31   -1.00  FWD_MSG
>>>
>>>I'm a bit surprised that any spams hit this one.  Did somebody forward a 
>>>spam that then went into a corpus?
>>
>>My corpus is quite clean and I get spam hits.
> 
> 
> yes, it's being frequently forged already.
> 
> 
>>>>  1.582    2.226    1.279    0.64    0.39  GAPPY_TEXT
>>>
>>>Gappy text in a non-spam?  It must be a  H E A D L I N E  or something.  
>>>Maybe just remove space from the list of "gap" characters?
>>
>>For 2.50, we could try to figure out which nonspams are hitting and
>>improve the rule.
> 
> 
> BTW I subscribe to the Media Unspun newsletter, and it and a few others
> regularly use that H E A D L I N E thing.
> 
> splitting it into 2, one that matches gappy text with punctuation chars,
> one that matches spaces between the chars, would probably help.  if
> anyone's bothered, I'd suggest filing a bug.
> 
> --j.
> 
> 
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1415.92155ef4a4f97a787d636892dd1a0219.eml000066400000000000000000000106111444326627400307760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Mon Aug 26 16:47:11 2002
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To: Luiz Felipe Ceglia 
Cc: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] help with postfix + spamassassin
In-Reply-To: Message from Luiz Felipe Ceglia  of
    "Fri, 23 Aug 2002 15:15:06 -0300."
    
From: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
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Luiz Felipe Ceglia said:

> 	:0fw
> 	| /usr/bin/spamassassin -c 
> 			/etc/mail/spamassassin/rules

are you using exactly that -- with the line break -- or is it like this:

  :0fw
  | /usr/bin/spamassassin -c /etc/mail/spamassassin/rules

all on one line?  it should be the latter.

--j.


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Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Re: Other uses for SA?
From: "Michael Leone" 
To: 
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References: 
    
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Brian R. Melcer said:
>> I've got spamassassin installed and tested on MacOS X 10.1.5,
>> although there are issues with spamd still.  So in addition to
>> looking for new and different uses for SA, I'd like to hear
>> from folks using it under MacOS X.
>
> I just recently converted our SA setup to use Amavisd into our Postfix

Amavisd or Amavisd-new? If the latter, you don't need spamd running, since
amavisd-new calls SA functions directly.

-- 
PGP Fingerprint: 0AA8 DC47 CB63 AE3F C739 6BF9 9AB4 1EF6 5AA5 BCDF
Member, LEAF Project     AIM: MikeLeone
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Some days you're the pigeon; some days you're the statue.




Random Thought:
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From: "Sidney Markowitz" 
To: 
References: 
    
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] 2.40 RELEASE: oops -- newer freqs.
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Daniel Quinlan  wrote:
> Exactly, except that I think you may be too optimistic
> about the reporting, the timeframe, and the accuracy.

That's another argument for a "HLL" (Habeas Licensee List) which would be less
inclusive than a test for the mark of for HIL, but more timely and accurate. When an
ip address is on the HLL it could get a huge negative score, bigger than the Habeas
mark alone.

 -- sidney




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To: "Craig R.Hughes" 
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	spamassassin-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] 2.40 RELEASE: oops -- newer freqs.
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From: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
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X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
X-Habeas-Swe-2: brightly anticipated
X-Habeas-Swe-3: like Habeas SWE (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this
X-Habeas-Swe-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas
X-Habeas-Swe-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant
X-Habeas-Swe-8: Message (HCM) and not spam.  Please report use of this
X-Habeas-Swe-9: mark in spam to .
Message-Id: <20020826154626.542CD43F99@phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com>
Sender: spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net
Errors-To: spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net
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Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 16:46:21 +0100
X-Pyzor: Reported 0 times.
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-25.7 required=7.0
	tests=FOR_FREE,HABEAS_SWE,IN_REP_TO,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,
	      QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05
	version=2.40-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 


"Craig R.Hughes" said:

> The GA run on the current corpus is yielding an average (mean) 
> score for false-positives of about 10 points, which is higher 
> than before.  There's some tweaking to be done yet (rule 
> elimination and such), so that will likely fall, but -15 might 
> not be enough of a correction in many situations.  I will set 
> the scores for the Habeas stuff and the Ironport stuff to be 
> sensible given:
> 
> a) estimated likeliness of compliance with Habeas/Bonded sender 
> rules, and
> b) score correction level needed to achieve purposes of those projects.

Using the score-ranges stuff and my aggressive anti-FP evaluation code,
BTW, yielded an average FP of 5.7 points, with 0.67% FPs and 96.57%
overall accuracy -- but I notice you went back to the other method.
Just pointing this out ;)

--j.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1419.21567426907fe2711bcb2cbff50a46e8.eml000066400000000000000000000107231444326627400311210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Mon Aug 26 18:01:19 2002
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From: "Tony L. Svanstrom" 
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To: bugzilla-daemon@hughes-family.org
Cc: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAdev] [Bug 735] spamassassin -t lies
In-Reply-To: <20020826163323.6940CA4D25@belphegore.hughes-family.org>
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	tests=FOR_FREE,IN_REP_TO,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,
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	version=2.40-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

On Mon, 26 Aug 2002 the voices made bugzilla-daemon@hughes-family.org write:

> http://www.hughes-family.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=735

> ------- Additional Comments From br+spamassassin@panix.com  2002-08-26 09:33 -------
> Just because it's documented doesn't mean it's a good thing.
>
> I work for an ISP.  We provide SpamAssassin to our customers.  I got email
> today from a support tech saying that "spamassassin -t" reports that a
> message is probably spam even when it's not, and why is this, and can we
> change it?  I thought about why it is, and the only answer I could come up
> with was, "it was easier for the programmer that way".  That's an answer, I
> guess, but her point was that this is going to generate support calls, and
> support calls cost us time and money.

 Why would a customer use `spamassassin -t` without understanding what it does?


	/Tony
-- 
# Per scientiam ad libertatem! // Through knowledge towards freedom! #
# Genom kunskap mot frihet! =*= (c) 1999-2002 tony@svanstrom.com =*= #

     perl -e'print$_{$_} for sort%_=`lynx -dump svanstrom.com/t`'



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From: "Tony L. Svanstrom" 
X-X-Sender: tony@moon.campus.luth.se
To: CertaintyTech 
Cc: satalk 
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] From: and To: are my address
In-Reply-To: <003501c24d1c$25a83980$6400a8c0@pnt004>
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On Mon, 26 Aug 2002 the voices made CertaintyTech write:

> Recently I have been receiving Spam where both the From: and To: address are
> set to my address therefore getting thru due to AWL.  Any suggestions on
> this one?  I could turn off AWL but it does have advantages.  BTW, I use a
> site-wide AWL.

 Use cron to remove your address from the AWL daily...?!

	/Tony
-- 
# Per scientiam ad libertatem! // Through knowledge towards freedom! #
# Genom kunskap mot frihet! =*= (c) 1999-2002 tony@svanstrom.com =*= #

     perl -e'print$_{$_} for sort%_=`lynx -dump svanstrom.com/t`'



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From: admin 
To: Spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
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Subject: [SAtalk] Test spam
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	tests=FOR_FREE,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03
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X-Spam-Level: 

Hi, does anyone have a collection of real-world-spam, that I could use to
test my setup?


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1422.c9ae8a81f72163d979f52510f5efb82c.eml000066400000000000000000000106511444326627400312170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-commits-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Tue Aug 27 10:36:05 2002
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To: spamassassin-commits@example.sourceforge.net
Message-Id: 
From: "Malte S. Stretz" 
Subject: [SACVS] CVS: spamassassin/debian spamassassin.README.Debian,1.1,1.2
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Update of /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/debian
In directory usw-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv23243/debian

Modified Files:
	spamassassin.README.Debian 
Log Message:
removed -P

Index: spamassassin.README.Debian
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/debian/spamassassin.README.Debian,v
retrieving revision 1.1
retrieving revision 1.2
diff -b -w -u -d -r1.1 -r1.2
--- spamassassin.README.Debian	21 Jun 2002 02:46:50 -0000	1.1
+++ spamassassin.README.Debian	27 Aug 2002 09:31:29 -0000	1.2
@@ -2,7 +2,7 @@
 you wish to use spamd (the Daemon version of spamassassin), please edit
 /etc/default/spamassassin.
 
-'spamc' is equivalent to 'spamassassin -P' and you should use it instead if
+'spamc' is equivalent to 'spamassassin' and you should use it instead if
 (and only if) you enabled 'spamd' (and you've installed the spamc package)
 
 To add rules, change scores, edit the template, edit



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1423.e988ffdfe0c87956e90f32a59aea6d9e.eml000066400000000000000000000075621444326627400314730ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Tue Aug 27 17:34:50 2002
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Subject: Re: [SAtalk] where can I find the Habeas patent (application)?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
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From: Brian McNett 
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On Tuesday, August 27, 2002, at 06:03  AM, Tony L. Svanstrom wrote:

> Where can I find it, I was searching online without any luck... =(

You can't, because there isn't one, yet.  Habeas is using a 
combination of copyright and trademark law to protect their 
sender warranties.  They hope to patent the system, but they 
have not been ISSUED a patent.

--B



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1424.99bed488956252e02c4ec7ff578c42d5.eml000066400000000000000000000101141444326627400311460ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Tue Aug 27 17:34:54 2002
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To: Matt Sergeant 
Cc: "Craig R.Hughes" ,
	"Malte S. Stretz" ,
	
Subject: MacOS X (Re: [SAtalk] [OT] Habeas-talk (was: 2.40 RELEASE: oops
    -- newer freqs.))
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On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 the voices made Matt Sergeant write:

> I've got 6C115 (I think) the current developer release (though not the same
> as gold).

 The only difference AFAIK is the path to a single helpfile, which we don't use
anyways, right? *G*


	/Tony
PS I also have a problem with that stupid helpprogram crasching whenever I
search for "windows"; not sure if that's a feature or not. =)
-- 
# Per scientiam ad libertatem! // Through knowledge towards freedom! #
# Genom kunskap mot frihet! =*= (c) 1999-2002 tony@svanstrom.com =*= #

     perl -e'print$_{$_} for sort%_=`lynx -dump svanstrom.com/t`'



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1425.7ed3569c34399b07b158eaead1c85cc8.eml000066400000000000000000000053741444326627400313040ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: jason-exp-1031164464.7f11b3@mastaler.com  Wed Aug 28 10:44:14 2002
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To: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
Cc: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net, tmda-users@tmda.net
Subject: Re: patent on TMDA-like system
References: <20020827144541.3236B43F99@phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com>
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Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:34:23 -0600
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jm@jmason.org (Justin Mason) writes:

> Sounds a lot like TMDA to me. :( Filing date is July 26, 2001,
> granted May 16, 2002.
>
> TMDAers, have you seen this before?

No, but thanks for pointing it out.

> I'd presume TMDA is prior art, but still, it could be troublesome...

Yup.  TMDA's core functionality was fully established before even the
filing date.

Anyone with experience in this area have a recommendation on whether
this should be pursued or not?

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1426.f6c783d5599675879265d4dc80fe0776.eml000066400000000000000000000037641444326627400307660ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: quinlan@pathname.com  Wed Aug 28 10:45:34 2002
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Cc: Matt Sergeant ,
	spamassassin-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAdev] SpamAssassin POP3 proxy
References: <20020827121720.1A37C43F99@phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com>
From: Daniel Quinlan 
Date: 27 Aug 2002 14:45:35 -0700
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jm@jmason.org (Justin Mason) writes:

> Actually, I want to avoid that -- I've already removed spamproxyd
> from the distro for 2.40. Here's why:
> 
> When they're in the distro, *we* have to support them -- which is
> not necessarily a good thing when we didn't write them in the first
> place, or when the coder in question may not *want* us to maintain
> them. :(

I would be in favor of creating new SpamAssassin CVS modules and
Bugzilla categories for other clients (provided there is sufficient
interest and a maintainer).

Dan

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1427.db4dce8eaebc4a3d836d2328137c7ac0.eml000066400000000000000000000037251444326627400314750ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: jm@jmason.org  Wed Aug 28 10:45:59 2002
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> I would be in favor of creating new SpamAssassin CVS modules and
> Bugzilla categories for other clients (provided there is sufficient
> interest and a maintainer).

yeah, I'd be with that -- as long as they have a maintainer ;)

however regarding CVS, I'd say many projects might find it easier
to just sign up as a new proj with sf.net -- it might save them having
to go through us (not sure, depends on what sf.net's procedures
are like).

--j.



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1428.5b9b341ac8488e65419bd551ce99b23d.eml000066400000000000000000000061761444326627400311500ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: felicity@kluge.net  Wed Aug 28 10:46:13 2002
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Subject: Re: FAQ: taint warnings from SA in /etc/procmailrc
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On Wed, Aug 28, 2002 at 12:14:24AM +0100, Justin Mason wrote:
> actually, I think procmail supports this directly. use DROPPRIVS=3Dyes
> at the top of the /etc/procmailrc.

Hey, look at that!

       DROPPRIVS   If  set  to	`yes'  procmail  will drop all privileges
		   it might have had (suid or sgid).  This is only
		   useful if you want to guarantee that the bottom half
		   of  the /etc/procmailrc file is executed on behalf
		   of the recipient.

Of course, removing setuid/gid bits on programs that don't need it is
always a good idea.  A general rule of system administration: don't give
out permissions unless you absolutely need to.   ;)

--=20
Randomly Generated Tagline:
"The cardinal rule at our school is simple. No shooting at teachers. If
 you have to shoot a gun, shoot it at a student or an administrator."
                 - "Word Smart II", from Princeton Review Pub.

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1429.3c60313af6a2a5c79bb97e06855a4af7.eml000066400000000000000000000077321444326627400312120ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: rlfrank@paradigm-omega.com  Wed Aug 28 10:46:41 2002
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To: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason),
	SpamAssassin-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: patent on TMDA-like system
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 2002 20:43:59 -0700
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On Tuesday 27 August 2002 07:45 am, Justin Mason wrote:
> Tony Svanstrom, on SpamAssassin-talk, noted this US patent:
>
> http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netah
>tml/PTO/search-adv.html&r=62&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&s1=spam&p=2&OS=haiku&RS=spam
>
>   Method of anti-spam
>
>   Abstract
>
>   A method of anti-spam is to set an optional trustcode, or a trustlist, or
>   at least a trustweb based on online mail delivery at a recipient's e-mail
>   address. A mail sender is compelled at the first time to deliver a mail
> by way of: taking the way of "Visiting trustweb and sending online", or
> enclosing the recipient's trustcode in the mail and sending in another way
> other than the mentioned. After the sender's e-mail address has been stored
> automatically in the recipient's trustlist, the sender may send mails to
> the same recipient in whatever the ways feasible.
>
>
> Sounds a lot like TMDA to me. :(  Filing date is July 26, 2001,  granted
> May 16, 2002.
>
> TMDAers, have you seen this before?  I'd presume TMDA is prior art, but
> still, it could be troublesome...
>
>
I took a bit of time to review what is on the above URL.  If I were a news 
editor, the headline would be:

"Inventor" from country that ignores patents and copyrights, seeks patent for 
inventing the wheel!
- -- 
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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http://paradigm-omega.com              http://paradigm-omega.net
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Cc: , 
References: <20020827144541.3236B43F99@phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com>
    
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Re: patent on TMDA-like system
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>>From tmda.net/history.html:

The first release of TMDA in April 2001 was essentially a rewrite of TMS in
Python, 

April 2001 is earlier than July 26, 2001... prior art..

from http://tmda.net/releases/old/
 Parent Directory        19-Aug-2002 16:14      -
 README.MD5SUM           19-Aug-2002 16:14     4k
 tmda-0.01.tgz           22-Apr-2001 15:59    11k
 tmda-0.02.tgz           26-Apr-2001 12:06    12k
 tmda-0.02.txt           26-Apr-2001 12:50     1k
 tmda-0.10.tgz           27-Apr-2001 21:14    39k
 tmda-0.10.txt           30-Apr-2001 11:36     3k
 tmda-0.11.tgz           02-May-2001 17:17    38k
 tmda-0.11.txt           02-May-2001 17:06     3k
 tmda-0.12.tgz           10-May-2001 19:50    39k
 tmda-0.12.txt           10-May-2001 19:48     1k
 tmda-0.13.tgz           17-May-2001 15:53    39k
 tmda-0.13.txt           17-May-2001 15:57     2k
 tmda-0.14.tgz           24-May-2001 16:43    46k
 tmda-0.14.txt           24-May-2001 16:40     4k
 tmda-0.15.tgz           28-May-2001 15:20    47k
 tmda-0.15.txt           28-May-2001 15:20     1k
 tmda-0.20.tgz           06-Jun-2001 17:52    49k
 tmda-0.20.txt           06-Jun-2001 18:46     6k
 tmda-0.21.tgz           18-Jun-2001 18:32    51k
 tmda-0.21.txt           18-Jun-2001 18:31     2k

TMDA was already at 0.21 8 days before filing for a patent..

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason R. Mastaler" 
To: "Justin Mason" 
Cc: ; 
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2002 11:34 AM
Subject: [SAtalk] Re: patent on TMDA-like system


jm@jmason.org (Justin Mason) writes:

> Sounds a lot like TMDA to me. :( Filing date is July 26, 2001,
> granted May 16, 2002.
>
> TMDAers, have you seen this before?

No, but thanks for pointing it out.

> I'd presume TMDA is prior art, but still, it could be troublesome...

Yup.  TMDA's core functionality was fully established before even the
filing date.

Anyone with experience in this area have a recommendation on whether
this should be pursued or not?


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1431.dbd1ebf9ac8e49dd42b0ee206a8d309c.eml000066400000000000000000000054151444326627400315540ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: tony@svanstrom.com  Wed Aug 28 10:56:41 2002
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On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 the voices made Jason R. Mastaler write:

> jm@jmason.org (Justin Mason) writes:
>
> > Sounds a lot like TMDA to me. :( Filing date is July 26, 2001,
> > granted May 16, 2002.
> >
> > TMDAers, have you seen this before?
>
> No, but thanks for pointing it out.
>
> > I'd presume TMDA is prior art, but still, it could be troublesome...
>
> Yup.  TMDA's core functionality was fully established before even the
> filing date.
>
> Anyone with experience in this area have a recommendation on whether
> this should be pursued or not?

 If you think you can survive it, please fight... When I found that patent I
found others that were just common sense, things that any geek could implement
with his script/shell-language of choice; and it's time for someone to get the
medias attention on what's going on.
 Basically this is the new wave of "namenappers"; it used to be domainnames,
not it's all the basic general ideas they can think off/find on the web that
they're patenting.


	/Tony
-- 
# Per scientiam ad libertatem! // Through knowledge towards freedom! #
# Genom kunskap mot frihet! =*= (c) 1999-2002 tony@svanstrom.com =*= #

     perl -e'print$_{$_} for sort%_=`lynx -dump svanstrom.com/t`'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1432.0b1b8088c9a4e04cff33f6919f340402.eml000066400000000000000000000105471444326627400310400ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Wed Aug 28 15:18:49 2002
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On Tuesday 27 August 2002 19:26 CET Leroy B. wrote:
> Ignore...

Can't.



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| 
| 0 hits here. :(
| 

I also get a lot of them. I think they're using the domain registry
database to pull their victims' addresses. 



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On Wednesday 28 August 2002 16:33 CET Theo Van Dinter wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 28, 2002 at 04:20:52PM +0200, Malte S. Stretz wrote:
> > I get about 3 of these per week. A google for trafficmagnet convinces
> > me that they're worth their own rule...
>
> 0 hits here. :(

I recently cleaned my spam corpus from them but these are my current 
results:
   OVERALL        SPAM     NONSPAM  NAME
     13929         995       12934  (all messages)
        13          13           0  T_TRAFFICMAGNET

I put it into cvs_rules_under_test, let's see what the 2.41 GA run thinks 
about it :)

Malte

-- 
-- Coding is art.
-- 




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* Steve Thomas  [2002-08-28T07:52-0700]:
> I also get a lot of them. I think they're using the domain registry
> database to pull their victims' addresses. 

Along with the usual webmaster@* and probably a dash of web harvesting
on the side from the ones I have seen.

A recent conversation in two lines:

Me:  Okay, trafficmagnet is being access mapped off now.
Junior admin [catching up on email after conference]: Thank God!

-- 
Jeremy Mates                                        http://www.sial.org/

OpenPGP: 0x11C3D628  (4357 1D47 FF78 24BB 0FBF 7AA8 A846 9F86 11C3 D628)


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From: "Malte S. Stretz" 
To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Too funny
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On Wednesday 28 August 2002 16:45 CET Steve Thomas wrote:
> | 0 hits here. :(
>
> I also get a lot of them. I think they're using the domain registry
> database to pull their victims' addresses.

They are crawling through the pages and send their "offers" to all addresses 
they find. Theo won't every receive any offers as he doesn't publish his 
address there ;-)

Malte

-- 
-- Coding is art.
-- 




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http://www.hughes-family.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=777





------- Additional Comments From daniel@roe.ch  2002-08-28 09:15 -------
3. usage of 
 just like 
 (ie. without 
) which is obsolete
   (not sure whether some mailers still produce such broken html)
4. tag argument values sometimes enclosed in "", sometimes not
5. colour args without # in front of hex rgb code
6. colour args with non-6-digit rgb code (typo)
7. onMouseOver et al in nonconsistent case throughout the document

Mind, those are just ideas. I'm pretty sure some or even most of them
are not working in practice, but they might be worth checking out.




------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is.


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Update of /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/masses
In directory usw-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv6501/masses

Removed Files:
      Tag: b2_4_0
	evolve.cxx 
Log Message:
removed old evolver

--- evolve.cxx DELETED ---



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Update of /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin
In directory usw-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv6501

Modified Files:
      Tag: b2_4_0
	MANIFEST 
Log Message:
removed old evolver

Index: MANIFEST
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/MANIFEST,v
retrieving revision 1.100.2.11
retrieving revision 1.100.2.12
diff -b -w -u -d -r1.100.2.11 -r1.100.2.12
--- MANIFEST	28 Aug 2002 13:50:15 -0000	1.100.2.11
+++ MANIFEST	28 Aug 2002 16:55:16 -0000	1.100.2.12
@@ -50,7 +50,6 @@
 masses/CORPUS_POLICY
 masses/CORPUS_SUBMIT
 masses/craig-evolve.c
-masses/evolve.cxx
 masses/freqdiff
 masses/hit-frequencies
 masses/lib/Mail/ArchiveIterator.pm



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Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Too funny
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Well if you're talking about epiphany, which is in January, then yes it is
5 months.Some people do celebrate Christmas on january 6th, or even the 13th.

But I am certain that what you are thinking is the correct thought.

Please don't flame me. Just trying to be humerous =)


Matt Kettler said:
> On an unrelated, but similarly amusing note, a spam I received (and was
>  tagged by SA) today began with:
>
>
> > I bet you haven't even realized that Christmas is just 5 months away,
> >
> did you?
>
>
> Strangely, no I wasn't aware that Christmas was 5 months away. Here in
> the  US Christmas is a bit less than 4 months away. Where exactly is
> the  "international month line" anyway? I've never seen the -74400
> timezone  before, but I bet it qualifies as INVALID_DATE_TZ_ABSURD :)
>
>
>
>
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1441.8344939e17984af793af15791dc9ffb8.eml000066400000000000000000000051361444326627400311100ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: prlawrence@lehigh.edu  Thu Aug 29 11:06:07 2002
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Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 16:49:39 -0400
From: Phil R Lawrence 
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To: Justin Mason 
Cc: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] testing the install
References: <20020815174924.951B743C34@phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com>
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Justin Mason wrote:
> Phil R Lawrence said:
> 
> 
>>>something to watch out for is to use "nomime" => 1 in the Mail::Audit
>>>ctor; the M:A folks changed the API there.
>>
>>What has MIME to do with it?  I read in perldoc M:A that your suggestion 
>>is less expensive, but how does that help S:A?
> 
> 
> M:A, for some reason, changes its base class depending on whether the
> incoming message is mime or not.  Therefore the Mail::Internet methods
> suddenly become unavailable for MIME messages...
> 
> (you do *not* want to know what I thought of that when I found it ;)

As a new user of SA, I guess I'm having trouble connecting the dots.  If 
I understand you:  If I don't use the "nomime" => 1 option and I recieve 
MIME mail, the Mail::Internet modules become unavailable.

Unavailable for which?  MA?  SA?  What do these methods do?  Does this 
mean my incoming MIME mail won't be checked by SA unless I specify 
"nomime" => 1?

Thanks,
Phil


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1442.08dc076440caf003ba9842983b8c9ed4.eml000066400000000000000000000105311444326627400311160ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Aug 29 11:05:30 2002
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To: SpamAssassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
From: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
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X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
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X-Habeas-Swe-3: like Habeas SWE (tm)
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Subject: [SAdev] 2.40: ready for release?
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OK guys -- I reckon it's now Good Enough, modulo some minor score
tweaking, or commenting of some more broken/high-FP-ing rules.

What do you all think?  are we ready to go?  anyone run into any trouble
with the new autoconf code, or found a bug from the merge of that spamc
BSMTP-support patch?

I expect there *will* be a 2.41 BTW.

--j.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1443.f5558679d8d2abd2165d96149a4de59b.eml000066400000000000000000000144001444326627400311450ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Aug 29 11:05:32 2002
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Hi, I'm trying to build SA under Digital Unix 4.0f and am receiving a
compile error (and many warnings) for spamc.  The "perl Makefile.PL"
does OK, but when I do the make, I get this:

cc -std -fprm d -ieee -D_INTRINSICS -I/usr/local/include -DLANGUAGE_C
-O4 spamd
/spamc.c  -o spamd/spamc -L/usr/local/lib -lbind -ldbm -ldb -lm -liconv
-lutil
cc: Error: spamd/spamc.c, line 50: In this declaration, "in_addr_t" has
no linka
ge and has a prior declaration in this scope at line number 592 in file
/usr/inc
lude/sys/types.h. (nolinkage)
typedef unsigned long   in_addr_t;      /* base type for internet
address */
------------------------^
cc: Warning: spamd/spamc.c, line 169: In this statement, the referenced
type of
the pointer value "msg_buf" is "char", which is not compatible with
"unsigned ch
ar". (ptrmismatch)
  if((bytes = full_read (in, msg_buf, max_size+1024, max_size+1024)) >
max_size)
-----------------------------^
cc: Warning: spamd/spamc.c, line 174: In this statement, the referenced
type of
the pointer value "header_buf" is "char", which is not compatible with
"const un
signed char". (ptrmismatch)
    full_write (out,header_buf,bytes2);
--------------------^
cc: Warning: spamd/spamc.c, line 202: In this statement, the referenced
type of
the pointer value "header_buf" is "char", which is not compatible with
"const un
signed char". (ptrmismatch)
    full_write (out,header_buf,bytes2);
--------------------^
cc: Warning: spamd/spamc.c, line 203: In this statement, the referenced
type of
the pointer value "msg_buf" is "char", which is not compatible with
"const unsig
ned char". (ptrmismatch)
    full_write (out,msg_buf,bytes);
--------------------^
cc: Warning: spamd/spamc.c, line 306: In this statement, the referenced
type of
the pointer value "buf" is "char", which is not compatible with
"unsigned char".
 (ptrmismatch)
          if(full_read (in,buf,2,2) != 2 || !('\r' == buf[0] && '\n' ==
buf[1]))
---------------------------^
cc: Warning: spamd/spamc.c, line 321: In this statement, the referenced
type of
the pointer value "buf" is "char", which is not compatible with
"unsigned char".
 (ptrmismatch)
    while((bytes=full_read (in,buf,8192, 8192)) > 0)
-------------------------------^
cc: Warning: spamd/spamc.c, line 348: In this statement, the referenced
type of
the pointer value "out_buf" is "char", which is not compatible with
"const unsig
ned char". (ptrmismatch)
      full_write (out, out_buf, out_index);
-----------------------^
cc: Warning: spamd/spamc.c, line 497: In this statement, the referenced
type of
the pointer value "msg_buf" is "char", which is not compatible with
"const unsig
ned char". (ptrmismatch)
      full_write (STDOUT_FILENO,msg_buf,amount_read);
--------------------------------^
cc: Warning: spamd/spamc.c, line 512: In this statement, the referenced
type of
the pointer value "msg_buf" is "char", which is not compatible with
"const unsig
ned char". (ptrmismatch)
      full_write(STDOUT_FILENO,msg_buf,amount_read);
-------------------------------^
*** Exit 1
Stop.

Can anyone suggest a way to get around this?   TIA...

Jim McCullars
The University of Alabama in Huntsville



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1444.9c769de9af58bfba4b3e6b0ca034f2b8.eml000066400000000000000000000117011444326627400315040ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Aug 29 11:05:35 2002
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Subject: [SAtalk] O.T. Habeus -- Why?
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I may be dense, but why would anyone want to utilize Habeus?  To me, it looks 
like a potential backdoor to anyone's defenses against spam.

If I were a spammer, I'd simply set up a server, send out my spam with the 
Habeus headers and continue till I was reasonably certain I'd been reported.  
Then I'd simply reconfigure the server and reconnect to a different IP.  As 
long as no one can establish my connection to the web sites my spam is 
directing people to, I'm home free.

Since I can set up spamassassin to I don't "lose" any email, what do I gain 
by making it easier for spam to get through??
- -- 
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1445.57f9856f348cda1656331372731701eb.eml000066400000000000000000000224601444326627400306350ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Aug 29 11:05:37 2002
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	"Justin Mason" 
References: <20020828184218.399CE43F99@phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com>
Subject: Re: [SAdev] 2.40: ready for release? *NO*
Organization: Arsecandle Industries, Inc.
X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
X-Habeas-Swe-2: brightly anticipated
X-Habeas-Swe-3: like Habeas SWE (tm)
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	tests=FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,HABEAS_SWE,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,
	      MULTIPART_SIGNED,NOSPAM_INC,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,
	      SPAM_PHRASE_02_03,USER_AGENT_OE,X_MSMAIL_PRIORITY_HIGH,
	      X_PRIORITY_HIGH
	version=2.40-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0088_01C24EA2.FC21D7A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Justin Mason wrote:
> OK guys -- I reckon it's now Good Enough, modulo some minor score
> tweaking, or commenting of some more broken/high-FP-ing rules.
>
> What do you all think?  are we ready to go?  anyone run into any trouble
> with the new autoconf code, or found a bug from the merge of that spamc
> BSMTP-support patch?

I just checked out b2_4_0 from CVS and 'make test' fails horribly.

It seems to be looking in my site_perl SpamAssassin code, not the build
directory.

Example error:

Failed to run FROM_AND_TO_SAME_5 SpamAssassin test, skipping:
        (Can't locate object method "check_for_from_to_same" via package
"Mail::SpamAssassin::PerMsgStatus" at
/usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/Mail/SpamAssassin/PerMsgStatus.pm line
1701.
)

Anyone else seeing this?

rOD.

--
"If you're dumb, surround yourself with smart people;
 and if you're smart, surround yourself with smart people
 who disagree with you."

Doing the blogging thang again at http://www.groovymother.com/ <<

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To update spamassasin, all I need to do is install the new tar.gz 
file as if it were a new installation? I don't need to stop incoming 
mail or anything like that? Thanks, Mike


-- 
Michael Clark, Webmaster
Center for Democracy and Technology
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1447.fda5fab9b91617921e5b7d5097214c6c.eml000066400000000000000000000073331444326627400312160ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Aug 29 11:05:49 2002
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From: "Rossz Vamos-Wentworth" 
To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] custom score for a given domain?
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> the number 1 ISP in France and the third ISP in
> Europe Wanadoo.fr is using non RFC2822 compliant
> mail servers:

Wanadoo.fr is notorious for being unresponsive to spam abuse 
complaints.  Some of the more militant admins have blocked them 
completely.

Rossz



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From: "Michael Moncur" 
To: 
Subject: RE: [SAtalk] O.T. Habeus -- Why?
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> I may be dense, but why would anyone want to utilize Habeus?  To
> me, it looks like a potential backdoor to anyone's defenses against spam.

You're not dense. I'm going to zero the habeas scores on my copy of
SpamAssassin. I think they were added to SA quite prematurely. To me it's
simple:

1. People who send me legitimate email have absolutely no motivation to use
Habeas, at least until it gets lots more press, and even then only
bulk-mailing companies like Amazon or eBay are going to bother, and I
already whitelist them. Individuals won't bother.

2. Spammers have lots of motivation to forge the Habeas headers, and a good
percentage of them are completely out of the legal reach of Habeas.

I think it should be subjected to the same testing and scrutiny as any other
potential new rule. When I test against my corpus here's what I get:

OVERALL     SPAM  NONSPAM     S/O   SCORE  NAME
  13851     8919     4932    0.64    0.00  (all messages)
      0        0        0    0.00   -1.00  HABEAS_SWE

The score of -1.0 is pretty harmless right now, but it still looks like a
useless rule so far.

--
Michael Moncur  mgm at starlingtech.com  http://www.starlingtech.com/
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." --Napoleon



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Subject: Re: [SAtalk] updating SA
From: Larry Rosenman 
To: Michael Clark 
Cc: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
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On Wed, 2002-08-28 at 13:57, Michael Clark wrote:
> To update spamassasin, all I need to do is install the new tar.gz 
> file as if it were a new installation? I don't need to stop incoming 
> mail or anything like that? Thanks, Mike
If you are using spamd, you will have to stop/restart it. 

-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 972-414-9812                 E-Mail: ler@lerctr.org
US Mail: 1905 Steamboat Springs Drive, Garland, TX 75044-6749



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On Wed, Aug 28, 2002 at 07:42:13PM +0100, Justin Mason wrote:
> OK guys -- I reckon it's now Good Enough, modulo some minor score
> tweaking, or commenting of some more broken/high-FP-ing rules.
>=20

Some make test errors here, too:

Failed 6/20 test scripts, 70.00% okay. 17/182 subtests failed, 90.66% okay.

J

--=20
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Subject: Re: [SAtalk] O.T. Habeus -- Why?
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On Wednesday, August 28, 2002, at 11:48  AM, Robin Lynn Frank wrote:

> If I were a spammer, I'd simply set up a server, send out my 
> spam with the
> Habeus headers and continue till I was reasonably certain I'd 
> been reported.
> Then I'd simply reconfigure the server and reconnect to a 
> different IP.  As
> long as no one can establish my connection to the web sites my spam is
> directing people to, I'm home free.

Uh... the reason is simple. Habeas runs something called the 
"Habeas Infringers List", and if you use their trademark without 
their permission, you'll end up on it.  Then, when you send spam 
with the misappropriated header, users of SA (2.40 supports 
this) will tag your mail as spam, rather than let it through. 
This may be done independantly of your IP address, so be 
prepared to constantly change domain names, and move your 
servers as fast as you send spam.

Also, that little haiku is a copyrighted work, so not only CAN 
Habeas sue, they MUST sue to protect their copyright. And since 
it's a trademark as well, that's a double-whammy. Habeas has 
some pretty high-powered legal people, who will gladly go to 
town on violators.

The whole point here is to give them the legal leverage they 
need to put spammers out of business, and not only block mail 
from them, but allow through the things that really AREN'T spam.

--B



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Subject: Re: [SAtalk] O.T. Habeus -- Why?
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wednesday 28 August 2002 01:34 pm, Brian McNett wrote:

>
> Uh... the reason is simple. Habeas runs something called the
> "Habeas Infringers List", and if you use their trademark without
> their permission, you'll end up on it.  Then, when you send spam
> with the misappropriated header, users of SA (2.40 supports
> this) will tag your mail as spam, rather than let it through.
> This may be done independantly of your IP address, so be
> prepared to constantly change domain names, and move your
> servers as fast as you send spam.
>
> Also, that little haiku is a copyrighted work, so not only CAN
> Habeas sue, they MUST sue to protect their copyright. And since
> it's a trademark as well, that's a double-whammy. Habeas has
> some pretty high-powered legal people, who will gladly go to
> town on violators.
>
> The whole point here is to give them the legal leverage they
> need to put spammers out of business, and not only block mail
> from them, but allow through the things that really AREN'T spam.
>
> --B
>
And if a spammer forges headers???
- -- 
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robin Lynn Frank---Director of Operations---Paradigm, Omega, LLC
http://paradigm-omega.com              http://paradigm-omega.net
� 2002.  All rights reserved.  No duplication/dissemination permitted.
Use of PGP/GPG encrypted mail preferred. No HTML/attachments accepted.
Fingerprint:  08E0 567C 63CC 5642 DB6D  D490 0F98 D7D3 77EA 3714
Key Server:  http://paradigm-omega.com/keymaster.html
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From: Klaus Heinz 
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Subject: Re: [SAdev] 2.40: ready for release?
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Justin Mason wrote:

> What do you all think?  are we ready to go?  anyone run into any trouble
> with the new autoconf code, or found a bug from the merge of that spamc

I am now preparing a small patch to configure.in for NetBSD (possibly
also useful for Open- and FreeBSD, don't know). Should be ready and
tested in the next half hour.

If you think 2.40 is ready, I would suggest to wait just 24 hours more
for possible reports by b2_4_0 users. Not everyone can follow the
development during daytime (at work).


ciao
     Klaus



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From: Don Newcomer 
To: SpamAssassin Talk list 
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Subject: [SAtalk] Tru64 compile of SA
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I'm a new user (or about to be, hopefully) of SA but I've run into some
compilation errors that prevent me from installing.  Rather than picking
through the code, I thought I'd avoid reinventing the wheel and ask here.
When I run the 'make', I get the following:

cc: Error: spamd/spamc.c, line 50: In this declaration, "in_addr_t" has no
linka
ge and has a prior declaration in this scope at line number 572 in file
/usr/inc
lude/sys/types.h. (nolinkage)
typedef unsigned long   in_addr_t;      /* base type for internet address
*/
------------------------^
cc: Warning: spamd/spamc.c, line 169: In this statement, the referenced
type of
the pointer value "msg_buf" is "char", which is not compatible with
"unsigned ch
ar". (ptrmismatch)
  if((bytes = full_read (in, msg_buf, max_size+1024, max_size+1024)) >
max_size)
-----------------------------^
cc: Warning: spamd/spamc.c, line 174: In this statement, the referenced
type of
the pointer value "header_buf" is "char", which is not compatible with
"const un
signed char". (ptrmismatch)
    full_write (out,header_buf,bytes2);
--------------------^

There are lots more where they came from.  Any ideas what can be done?
Thanks in advance.

================================================================================
Don Newcomer                                            Dickinson College
Associate Director, System and Network Services		P.O. Box 1773
newcomer@dickinson.edu                                  Carlisle, PA  17013
                                                        Phone: (717) 245-1256
                                                          FAX: (717) 245-1690




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To: spamassassin-commits@example.sourceforge.net
Message-Id: 
From: Justin Mason 
Subject: [SACVS] CVS: spamassassin/masses parse-rules-for-masses,1.1.2.2,1.1.2.3
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Update of /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/masses
In directory usw-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv24879

Modified Files:
      Tag: b2_4_0
	parse-rules-for-masses 
Log Message:
fix for bug 784

Index: parse-rules-for-masses
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/masses/parse-rules-for-masses,v
retrieving revision 1.1.2.2
retrieving revision 1.1.2.3
diff -b -w -u -d -r1.1.2.2 -r1.1.2.3
--- parse-rules-for-masses	28 Aug 2002 13:49:51 -0000	1.1.2.2
+++ parse-rules-for-masses	28 Aug 2002 22:08:35 -0000	1.1.2.3
@@ -28,6 +28,7 @@
 
 if (!defined $outputfile) {
   $outputfile = "./tmp/rules.pl";
+  mkdir ("tmp", 0755);
 }
 
 my $rules = { };



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To: Robin Lynn Frank 
Cc: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] O.T. Habeus -- Why?
References: <1030560510.17408.TMDA@omega.paradigm-omega.net>
From: Daniel Quinlan 
In-Reply-To: Robin Lynn Frank's message of "Wed, 28 Aug 2002 11:48:12 -0700"
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	      QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,
	      USER_AGENT_GNUS_XM
	version=2.40-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Robin Lynn Frank  writes:

> I may be dense, but why would anyone want to utilize Habeus?  To me,
> it looks like a potential backdoor to anyone's defenses against spam.
>
> If I were a spammer, I'd simply set up a server, send out my spam with
> the Habeus headers and continue till I was reasonably certain I'd been
> reported.  Then I'd simply reconfigure the server and reconnect to a
> different IP.  As long as no one can establish my connection to the
> web sites my spam is directing people to, I'm home free.

Here is the bug I opened:

  http://www.hughes-family.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=762

RBLs have the same problem, but there is no negative RBL header rule
with a -20 score that can be forged, so the problem is unique to Habeas.

> Since I can set up spamassassin to I don't "lose" any email, what do I
> gain by making it easier for spam to get through??

My primary issue is the magnitude of the negative score and that it was
not determined empirically.  I am also concerned that it was added after
the rules freeze, that such a major change was not discussed in advance,
etc.

There's also no evidence that the rule will actually reduce FPs.  People
who are smart enough to use the rule are probably capable of writing
email that doesn't look like spam (I'm not counting spam mailing lists
which you need to be exempted from spam filtering).

Dan


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To: Arnaud Abelard 
Cc: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] custom score for a given domain?
References: <3D6CE817.20608@sciences.univ-nantes.fr>
From: Daniel Quinlan 
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> MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA   (4.0 points)
> INVALID_MSGID         (1.8 points) 
> MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA_2 (1.6 points)

Here are the new scores in the 2.40 branch (they may change, but they
are better than before).

score INVALID_MSGID                  1.226
score MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA            1.696
score MSG_ID_ADDED_BY_MTA_2          0.532

Total of 3.5 which is better than 7.4, I suppose.

If they fixed their MSGID, it would help.  I suppose we could allow
comments without hurting spam detection too much, but I'm reluctant
(it's pretty bizarre to put a comment after the Message-ID header).

Can you open a bugzilla ticket for this one?

Dan


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From: Jim McCullars 
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Subject: [SAtalk] Compile error under Digital Unix
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	tests=KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINE
	version=2.40-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Hi, I'm trying to build SA under Digital Unix 4.0f and am receiving a
compile error (and many warnings) for spamc.  The "perl Makefile.PL"
does OK, but when I do the make, I get this:

cc -std -fprm d -ieee -D_INTRINSICS -I/usr/local/include -DLANGUAGE_C
-O4 spamd
/spamc.c  -o spamd/spamc -L/usr/local/lib -lbind -ldbm -ldb -lm -liconv
-lutil
cc: Error: spamd/spamc.c, line 50: In this declaration, "in_addr_t" has
no linkage and has a prior declaration in this scope at line number 592 in file
/usr/include/sys/types.h. (nolinkage)
typedef unsigned long   in_addr_t;      /* base type for internet
address */
------------------------^
cc: Warning: spamd/spamc.c, line 169: In this statement, the referenced
type of
the pointer value "msg_buf" is "char", which is not compatible with
"unsigned char". (ptrmismatch)
  if((bytes = full_read (in, msg_buf, max_size+1024, max_size+1024)) >
max_size)
-----------------------------^
cc: Warning: spamd/spamc.c, line 174: In this statement, the referenced
type of
the pointer value "header_buf" is "char", which is not compatible with
"const unsigned char". (ptrmismatch)
    full_write (out,header_buf,bytes2);
--------------------^
cc: Warning: spamd/spamc.c, line 202: In this statement, the referenced
type of
the pointer value "header_buf" is "char", which is not compatible with
"const unsigned char". (ptrmismatch)
    full_write (out,header_buf,bytes2);
--------------------^
cc: Warning: spamd/spamc.c, line 203: In this statement, the referenced
type of the pointer value "msg_buf" is "char", which is not compatible
with "const unsigned char". (ptrmismatch)
    full_write (out,msg_buf,bytes);
--------------------^
cc: Warning: spamd/spamc.c, line 306: In this statement, the referenced
type of the pointer value "buf" is "char", which is not compatible with
"unsigned char".
 (ptrmismatch)
          if(full_read (in,buf,2,2) != 2 || !('\r' == buf[0] && '\n' ==
buf[1]))
---------------------------^
cc: Warning: spamd/spamc.c, line 321: In this statement, the referenced
type of
the pointer value "buf" is "char", which is not compatible with
"unsigned char".
 (ptrmismatch)
    while((bytes=full_read (in,buf,8192, 8192)) > 0)
-------------------------------^
cc: Warning: spamd/spamc.c, line 348: In this statement, the referenced
type of
the pointer value "out_buf" is "char", which is not compatible with
"const unsigned char". (ptrmismatch)
      full_write (out, out_buf, out_index);
-----------------------^
cc: Warning: spamd/spamc.c, line 497: In this statement, the referenced
type of
the pointer value "msg_buf" is "char", which is not compatible with
"const unsigned char". (ptrmismatch)
      full_write (STDOUT_FILENO,msg_buf,amount_read);
--------------------------------^
cc: Warning: spamd/spamc.c, line 512: In this statement, the referenced
type of
the pointer value "msg_buf" is "char", which is not compatible with
"const unsigned char". (ptrmismatch)
      full_write(STDOUT_FILENO,msg_buf,amount_read);
-------------------------------^
*** Exit 1
Stop.

Can anyone suggest a way to get around this?   TIA...

Jim
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
* James H. McCullars                 I Phone: (256) 824-2610              *
* Director of Systems & Operations   I Fax:   (256) 824-6643              *
* Computer & Network Services        I Internet: mccullj@email.uah.edu    *
* The University of Alabama          I -----------------------------------*
*    in Huntsville                   I                                    *
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1460.8ad306210b1538d37993a51b69544e5b.eml000066400000000000000000000067061444326627400307050ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Aug 29 11:07:00 2002
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From: Jon Gabrielson 
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Subject: [SAtalk] moving SPAM: results to bottom of message.
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Is there a way to tell spamassassin to put the results at the bottom
of the message instead?  If not, what is the easiest way to do this.
I found a report_header, but no equivalent report_bottom.

Thanks,

Jon.
jon.g@directfreight.com


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1461.7a96cf16c999d9db5e0cf0369203866d.eml000066400000000000000000000103331444326627400311470ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-commits-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Aug 29 11:07:07 2002
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To: spamassassin-commits@example.sourceforge.net
Message-Id: 
From: Justin Mason 
Subject: [SACVS] CVS: spamassassin/t SATest.pm,1.15.4.1,1.15.4.2
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Update of /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/t
In directory usw-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv3992/t

Modified Files:
      Tag: b2_4_0
	SATest.pm 
Log Message:
ok, looks like SA can now be run even with another version installed in /usr, again

Index: SATest.pm
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/t/SATest.pm,v
retrieving revision 1.15.4.1
retrieving revision 1.15.4.2
diff -b -w -u -d -r1.15.4.1 -r1.15.4.2
--- SATest.pm	27 Aug 2002 21:44:14 -0000	1.15.4.1
+++ SATest.pm	28 Aug 2002 22:46:28 -0000	1.15.4.2
@@ -15,7 +15,7 @@
   my $tname = shift;
 
   $scr = $ENV{'SCRIPT'};
-  $scr ||= "../spamassassin";
+  $scr ||= "perl -w ../spamassassin";
 
   $spamd = $ENV{'SPAMD_SCRIPT'};
   $spamd ||= "../spamd/spamd -x";



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1462.ef8fdbd441dade85c95fa014b058b896.eml000066400000000000000000000122511444326627400314330ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Aug 29 11:07:11 2002
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From: Matthew Cline 
Organization: Night Realms
To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] O.T. Habeus -- Why?
X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.4]
References: <829DCAD0-BAC5-11D6-AD60-003065C182B0@radparker.com>
    <1030567825.3271.TMDA@omega.paradigm-omega.net>
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X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
X-Habeas-Swe-2: brightly anticipated
X-Habeas-Swe-3: like Habeas SWE (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this
X-Habeas-Swe-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas
X-Habeas-Swe-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant
X-Habeas-Swe-8: Message (HCM) and not spam.  Please report use of this
X-Habeas-Swe-9: mark in spam to .
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	      HABEAS_SWE,IN_REP_TO,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,NOSPAM_INC,
	      QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,RCVD_IN_MULTIHOP_DSBL,
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On Wednesday 28 August 2002 01:50 pm, Robin Lynn Frank wrote:

> On Wednesday 28 August 2002 01:34 pm, Brian McNett wrote:
> > Also, that little haiku is a copyrighted work, so not only CAN
> > Habeas sue, they MUST sue to protect their copyright. And since
> > it's a trademark as well, that's a double-whammy. Habeas has
> > some pretty high-powered legal people, who will gladly go to
> > town on violators.

> > The whole point here is to give them the legal leverage they
> > need to put spammers out of business, and not only block mail
> > from them, but allow through the things that really AREN'T spam.

> And if a spammer forges headers???

There must be *some* way of tracking a spammer down, since they are planning 
on making money from the spam.  What a court would consider evidence of being 
the spammer is another question.

-- 
Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on
fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

ICQ: 132152059 | Advanced SPAM filtering software: http://spamassassin.org


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1463.92f97ef2ccc550773ac1ca0fb3feac52.eml000066400000000000000000000101121444326627400314660ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Aug 29 11:07:19 2002
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From: Bart Schaefer 
To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] O.T. Habeus -- Why?
In-Reply-To: <200208281548.21264.matt@nightrealms.com>
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	version=2.40-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

On Wed, 28 Aug 2002, Matthew Cline wrote:

> There must be *some* way of tracking a spammer down, since they are
> planning on making money from the spam.

Many spammers make money not from response to the spam, but from selling
the service of spamming on behalf of someone else.  You might track down
whoever paid for the mailing, but tracking down the actual sender might be
more difficult, and even if they manage to recover damages from the buyer
they haven't stopped the spammer, so the benefit is strictly to Habeas,
not to the recipients of the spam.  That's the main problem I have with
the whole scenario: My pain, Habeas's gain, and those most likely to be
held liable are those least likely to be the really serious abusers.



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1464.1bf98a5939c5dccf46f3e7c482e7e906.eml000066400000000000000000000371101444326627400313170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-commits-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Aug 29 11:07:34 2002
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To: spamassassin-commits@example.sourceforge.net
Message-Id: 
From: Justin Mason 
Subject: [SACVS] CVS: spamassassin configure,1.1.2.1,1.1.2.2
    configure.in,1.1.2.1,1.1.2.2
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	tests=KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,PATCH_UNIFIED_DIFF,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01
	version=2.40-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Update of /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin
In directory usw-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv15398

Modified Files:
      Tag: b2_4_0
	configure configure.in 
Log Message:
NetBSD support patch from Klaus Heinz, bug 785

Index: configure
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/configure,v
retrieving revision 1.1.2.1
retrieving revision 1.1.2.2
diff -b -w -u -d -r1.1.2.1 -r1.1.2.2
--- configure	27 Aug 2002 23:07:13 -0000	1.1.2.1
+++ configure	28 Aug 2002 23:29:04 -0000	1.1.2.2
@@ -1273,18 +1273,22 @@
                  cat > conftest.$ac_ext <
 #include 
+int main() {
+printf ("%d", SHUT_RD); return 0;
+; return 0; }
 EOF
-if (eval "$ac_cpp conftest.$ac_ext") 2>&5 |
-  egrep "SHUT_RD" >/dev/null 2>&1; then
+if { (eval echo configure:1283: \"$ac_compile\") 1>&5; (eval $ac_compile) 2>&5; }; then
   rm -rf conftest*
   shutrd=yes
 else
+  echo "configure: failed program was:" >&5
+  cat conftest.$ac_ext >&5
   rm -rf conftest*
   shutrd=no
 fi
-rm -f conftest*
-
+rm -f conftest*,
        
 fi
 
@@ -1298,7 +1302,7 @@
 
 
 echo $ac_n "checking for socket in -lsocket""... $ac_c" 1>&6
-echo "configure:1302: checking for socket in -lsocket" >&5
+echo "configure:1306: checking for socket in -lsocket" >&5
 ac_lib_var=`echo socket'_'socket | sed 'y%./+-%__p_%'`
 if eval "test \"`echo '$''{'ac_cv_lib_$ac_lib_var'+set}'`\" = set"; then
   echo $ac_n "(cached) $ac_c" 1>&6
@@ -1306,7 +1310,7 @@
   ac_save_LIBS="$LIBS"
 LIBS="-lsocket  $LIBS"
 cat > conftest.$ac_ext <&5; (eval $ac_link) 2>&5; } && test -s conftest${ac_exeext}; then
+if { (eval echo configure:1325: \"$ac_link\") 1>&5; (eval $ac_link) 2>&5; } && test -s conftest${ac_exeext}; then
   rm -rf conftest*
   eval "ac_cv_lib_$ac_lib_var=yes"
 else
@@ -1345,7 +1349,7 @@
 fi
 
 echo $ac_n "checking for connect in -linet""... $ac_c" 1>&6
-echo "configure:1349: checking for connect in -linet" >&5
+echo "configure:1353: checking for connect in -linet" >&5
 ac_lib_var=`echo inet'_'connect | sed 'y%./+-%__p_%'`
 if eval "test \"`echo '$''{'ac_cv_lib_$ac_lib_var'+set}'`\" = set"; then
   echo $ac_n "(cached) $ac_c" 1>&6
@@ -1353,7 +1357,7 @@
   ac_save_LIBS="$LIBS"
 LIBS="-linet  $LIBS"
 cat > conftest.$ac_ext <&5; (eval $ac_link) 2>&5; } && test -s conftest${ac_exeext}; then
+if { (eval echo configure:1372: \"$ac_link\") 1>&5; (eval $ac_link) 2>&5; } && test -s conftest${ac_exeext}; then
   rm -rf conftest*
   eval "ac_cv_lib_$ac_lib_var=yes"
 else
@@ -1392,7 +1396,7 @@
 fi
 
 echo $ac_n "checking for t_accept in -lnsl""... $ac_c" 1>&6
-echo "configure:1396: checking for t_accept in -lnsl" >&5
+echo "configure:1400: checking for t_accept in -lnsl" >&5
 ac_lib_var=`echo nsl'_'t_accept | sed 'y%./+-%__p_%'`
 if eval "test \"`echo '$''{'ac_cv_lib_$ac_lib_var'+set}'`\" = set"; then
   echo $ac_n "(cached) $ac_c" 1>&6
@@ -1400,7 +1404,7 @@
   ac_save_LIBS="$LIBS"
 LIBS="-lnsl  $LIBS"
 cat > conftest.$ac_ext <&5; (eval $ac_link) 2>&5; } && test -s conftest${ac_exeext}; then
+if { (eval echo configure:1419: \"$ac_link\") 1>&5; (eval $ac_link) 2>&5; } && test -s conftest${ac_exeext}; then
   rm -rf conftest*
   eval "ac_cv_lib_$ac_lib_var=yes"
 else
@@ -1439,7 +1443,7 @@
 fi
 
 echo $ac_n "checking for dlopen in -ldl""... $ac_c" 1>&6
-echo "configure:1443: checking for dlopen in -ldl" >&5
+echo "configure:1447: checking for dlopen in -ldl" >&5
 ac_lib_var=`echo dl'_'dlopen | sed 'y%./+-%__p_%'`
 if eval "test \"`echo '$''{'ac_cv_lib_$ac_lib_var'+set}'`\" = set"; then
   echo $ac_n "(cached) $ac_c" 1>&6
@@ -1447,7 +1451,7 @@
   ac_save_LIBS="$LIBS"
 LIBS="-ldl  $LIBS"
 cat > conftest.$ac_ext <&5; (eval $ac_link) 2>&5; } && test -s conftest${ac_exeext}; then
+if { (eval echo configure:1466: \"$ac_link\") 1>&5; (eval $ac_link) 2>&5; } && test -s conftest${ac_exeext}; then
   rm -rf conftest*
   eval "ac_cv_lib_$ac_lib_var=yes"
 else
@@ -1489,12 +1493,12 @@
 for ac_func in socket strdup strtod strtol snprintf shutdown
 do
 echo $ac_n "checking for $ac_func""... $ac_c" 1>&6
-echo "configure:1493: checking for $ac_func" >&5
+echo "configure:1497: checking for $ac_func" >&5
 if eval "test \"`echo '$''{'ac_cv_func_$ac_func'+set}'`\" = set"; then
   echo $ac_n "(cached) $ac_c" 1>&6
 else
   cat > conftest.$ac_ext <&5; (eval $ac_link) 2>&5; } && test -s conftest${ac_exeext}; then
+if { (eval echo configure:1525: \"$ac_link\") 1>&5; (eval $ac_link) 2>&5; } && test -s conftest${ac_exeext}; then
   rm -rf conftest*
   eval "ac_cv_func_$ac_func=yes"
 else
@@ -1544,20 +1548,20 @@
 
 
 echo $ac_n "checking for h_errno""... $ac_c" 1>&6
-echo "configure:1548: checking for h_errno" >&5
+echo "configure:1552: checking for h_errno" >&5
 if eval "test \"`echo '$''{'herrno'+set}'`\" = set"; then
   echo $ac_n "(cached) $ac_c" 1>&6
 else
   
                 cat > conftest.$ac_ext <
 int main() {
 printf ("%d", h_errno); return 0;
 ; return 0; }
 EOF
-if { (eval echo configure:1561: \"$ac_compile\") 1>&5; (eval $ac_compile) 2>&5; }; then
+if { (eval echo configure:1565: \"$ac_compile\") 1>&5; (eval $ac_compile) 2>&5; }; then
   rm -rf conftest*
   herrno=yes
 else
@@ -1580,20 +1584,20 @@
 
 
 echo $ac_n "checking for optarg""... $ac_c" 1>&6
-echo "configure:1584: checking for optarg" >&5
+echo "configure:1588: checking for optarg" >&5
 if eval "test \"`echo '$''{'haveoptarg'+set}'`\" = set"; then
   echo $ac_n "(cached) $ac_c" 1>&6
 else
   
                 cat > conftest.$ac_ext <
 int main() {
 if (optarg == (char *) 0L) { return 0; } return 1;
 ; return 0; }
 EOF
-if { (eval echo configure:1597: \"$ac_compile\") 1>&5; (eval $ac_compile) 2>&5; }; then
+if { (eval echo configure:1601: \"$ac_compile\") 1>&5; (eval $ac_compile) 2>&5; }; then
   rm -rf conftest*
   haveoptarg=yes
 else
@@ -1616,20 +1620,21 @@
 
 
 echo $ac_n "checking for in_addr_t""... $ac_c" 1>&6
-echo "configure:1620: checking for in_addr_t" >&5
+echo "configure:1624: checking for in_addr_t" >&5
 if eval "test \"`echo '$''{'inaddrt'+set}'`\" = set"; then
   echo $ac_n "(cached) $ac_c" 1>&6
 else
   
                 cat > conftest.$ac_ext <
 #include 
 int main() {
 in_addr_t foo; return 0;
 ; return 0; }
 EOF
-if { (eval echo configure:1633: \"$ac_compile\") 1>&5; (eval $ac_compile) 2>&5; }; then
+if { (eval echo configure:1638: \"$ac_compile\") 1>&5; (eval $ac_compile) 2>&5; }; then
   rm -rf conftest*
   inaddrt=yes
 else
@@ -1645,12 +1650,12 @@
 echo "$ac_t""$inaddrt" 1>&6
 if test $inaddrt = no ; then
   echo $ac_n "checking for in_addr_t""... $ac_c" 1>&6
-echo "configure:1649: checking for in_addr_t" >&5
+echo "configure:1654: checking for in_addr_t" >&5
 if eval "test \"`echo '$''{'ac_cv_type_in_addr_t'+set}'`\" = set"; then
   echo $ac_n "(cached) $ac_c" 1>&6
 else
   cat > conftest.$ac_ext <
 #if STDC_HEADERS
@@ -1681,20 +1686,21 @@
 
 
 echo $ac_n "checking for INADDR_NONE""... $ac_c" 1>&6
-echo "configure:1685: checking for INADDR_NONE" >&5
+echo "configure:1690: checking for INADDR_NONE" >&5
 if eval "test \"`echo '$''{'haveinaddrnone'+set}'`\" = set"; then
   echo $ac_n "(cached) $ac_c" 1>&6
 else
   
                 cat > conftest.$ac_ext <
 #include 
 int main() {
 in_addr_t foo = INADDR_NONE; return 0;
 ; return 0; }
 EOF
-if { (eval echo configure:1698: \"$ac_compile\") 1>&5; (eval $ac_compile) 2>&5; }; then
+if { (eval echo configure:1704: \"$ac_compile\") 1>&5; (eval $ac_compile) 2>&5; }; then
   rm -rf conftest*
   haveinaddrnone=yes
 else
@@ -1717,20 +1723,23 @@
 
 
 echo $ac_n "checking for EX__MAX""... $ac_c" 1>&6
-echo "configure:1721: checking for EX__MAX" >&5
+echo "configure:1727: checking for EX__MAX" >&5
 if eval "test \"`echo '$''{'haveexmax'+set}'`\" = set"; then
   echo $ac_n "(cached) $ac_c" 1>&6
 else
   
                 cat > conftest.$ac_ext <
+#endif
 #include 
 int main() {
 int foo = EX__MAX; return 0;
 ; return 0; }
 EOF
-if { (eval echo configure:1734: \"$ac_compile\") 1>&5; (eval $ac_compile) 2>&5; }; then
+if { (eval echo configure:1743: \"$ac_compile\") 1>&5; (eval $ac_compile) 2>&5; }; then
   rm -rf conftest*
   haveexmax=yes
 else

Index: configure.in
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/configure.in,v
retrieving revision 1.1.2.1
retrieving revision 1.1.2.2
diff -b -w -u -d -r1.1.2.1 -r1.1.2.2
--- configure.in	27 Aug 2002 23:07:13 -0000	1.1.2.1
+++ configure.in	28 Aug 2002 23:29:04 -0000	1.1.2.2
@@ -26,9 +26,11 @@
 
 AC_CACHE_CHECK([for SHUT_RD],
        shutrd, [
-                 AC_EGREP_HEADER(SHUT_RD, sys/socket.h,
+                AC_TRY_COMPILE([#include 
+#include ],
+                        [printf ("%d", SHUT_RD); return 0;],
                                         [shutrd=yes],
-                                        [shutrd=no])
+                                        [shutrd=no]),
        ])
 if test $shutrd = yes ; then
   AC_DEFINE(HAVE_SHUT_RD)
@@ -73,7 +75,8 @@
 
 AC_CACHE_CHECK([for in_addr_t],
         inaddrt, [
-                AC_TRY_COMPILE([#include ],
+                AC_TRY_COMPILE([#include 
+#include ],
                         [in_addr_t foo; return 0;],
                                         [inaddrt=yes],
                                         [inaddrt=no]),
@@ -86,7 +89,8 @@
 
 AC_CACHE_CHECK([for INADDR_NONE],
         haveinaddrnone, [
-                AC_TRY_COMPILE([#include ],
+                AC_TRY_COMPILE([#include 
+#include ],
                         [in_addr_t foo = INADDR_NONE; return 0;],
                                         [haveinaddrnone=yes],
                                         [haveinaddrnone=no]),
@@ -99,7 +103,10 @@
 
 AC_CACHE_CHECK([for EX__MAX],
         haveexmax, [
-                AC_TRY_COMPILE([#include ],
+                AC_TRY_COMPILE([#ifdef HAVE_SYSEXITS_H
+#include 
+#endif
+#include ],
                         [int foo = EX__MAX; return 0;],
                                         [haveexmax=yes],
                                         [haveexmax=no]),



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Subject: Re: [SAdev] 2.40: ready for release?
From: "Justin Mason" 
To: felicity@kluge.net
In-Reply-To: <20020828230545.GB6877@kluge.net>
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	tests=IN_REP_TO,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,
	      SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,X_AUTH_WARNING
	version=2.40-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 


> t/db_based_whitelist.Use of bare << to mean <<"" is deprecated at
> ../lib/Mail/SpamAssassin/HTML.pm line 1. Use of bare << to mean <<"" is
> deprecated at ../lib/Mail/SpamAssassin/HTML.pm line 6. Unquoted string

hmm, could you check your installation?  those chars aren't in my
version at all.

--j.



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To: Matthew Cline 
Cc: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] O.T. Habeus -- Why?
References: <829DCAD0-BAC5-11D6-AD60-003065C182B0@radparker.com>
    <1030567825.3271.TMDA@omega.paradigm-omega.net>
    <200208281548.21264.matt@nightrealms.com>
From: Daniel Quinlan 
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	tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,
	      QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,
	      USER_AGENT_GNUS_XM
	version=2.40-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Matthew Cline  writes:

> There must be *some* way of tracking a spammer down, since they are
> planning on making money from the spam.  What a court would consider
> evidence of being the spammer is another question.

Haha!!!

Just a few notes:

 - It will be difficult to find, prosecute, and win money from someone
   in various non-friendly countries where spam originates (China is a
   good example) even if they do officially "respect" copyright law.

 - Law suits take time. Between now and conclusion of the first court
   case, we could have years of spam in our mail boxes!

 - Contact information can change: phone numbers, PO boxes, stolen
   cell phones, temporary email addresses, etc.

 - Spammers do not always remember to include contact information!  I
   don't understand it either, but nobody said they were bright.  Also,
   some spam is non-commercial or sent by a third-party (for example,
   "pump and dump" stock scams), so contact information is not strictly
   required for the spammer to get their way.

Dan


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Subject: Re: [SAtalk] O.T. Habeus -- Why?
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On Wednesday, August 28, 2002, at 01:50  PM, Robin Lynn Frank wrote:

> And if a spammer forges headers???

Header forgeries are trivially easy to detect. The main way that 
spammers hide their originating IPs is not by forging headers, 
but by sending through open proxy servers.  It used to be that 
spammers used open relay mailserver, but these often betray the 
originating IP, and the proliferation of open relay blocklists, 
and the introduction of port 25 blocking on the part of many 
ISPs make open relays unattractive to spammers.

One would think, that the combination of a forged Habeas-SWE, 
and mail sent through an anonymizing open proxy would be a 
fairly good indication of spam.  Tracking a spammer to his 
meatspace location is not as difficult as you might think, once 
you have legal recourse to subpoena records.

--B



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Subject: Re: [SAtalk] O.T. Habeus -- Why?
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On Wednesday, August 28, 2002, at 04:38  PM, Daniel Quinlan wrote:

> Just a few notes:
>
>  - It will be difficult to find, prosecute, and win money from someone
>    in various non-friendly countries where spam originates (China is a
>    good example) even if they do officially "respect" copyright law.


A lot of spam which *appears* to originate from China, and even 
a lot which advertises websites hosted there, is sent by, and is 
done for the benefit of, companies based in the US.  The spam 
often appears to originate there because it's coming from open 
http, or squid proxy servers.  It's hosted there because these 
spammers are now persona-non-grata on all US ISPs.  One hardly 
needs to involve the Chinese government in a case where a US 
citizen is violating US law.


>  - Law suits take time. Between now and conclusion of the first court
>    case, we could have years of spam in our mail boxes!

The first court cases were actually concluded years ago. These 
include many legal precedents which are used to protect the 
rights of ISPs to block mail, and to terminate service to 
spammers.

>  - Contact information can change: phone numbers, PO boxes, stolen
>    cell phones, temporary email addresses, etc.

Surprising then, how much information you can find on the 
current whereabouts of long-time spammers like Alan Ralksy of 
Detroit, Michigan.  Ralsky is a guy who even gives interviews to 
the news media.  If you can connect a specific corpus of spam to 
him, his street address is well known. Ralsky is a prime 
candidate for lawsuits in any state with an anti-spam law. 
Thomas Cowles is another long-time spammer, but last I heard 
he'd been jailed for stealing computer equipment from his 
business partner, Eddy Marin (also a long time spammer (You've 
heard of PopLaunch, right?)

>  - Spammers do not always remember to include contact information!  I
>    don't understand it either, but nobody said they were bright.  Also,
>    some spam is non-commercial or sent by a third-party (for example,
>    "pump and dump" stock scams), so contact information is not strictly
>    required for the spammer to get their way.

Back when I was working at MAPS, there was a flap over a 
pump-and-dump spammer, Rodona Garst.  Seems she had an open 
file-share on her laptop, and when she forged the wrong domain, 
the real owner hacked in and posted all her private information 
on a website. Oh, look, it's still there, including the nude 
photos:

http://belps.freewebsites.com/

I recall this well, because the SEC was VERY interested in 
confirming the validity of the information found online.  There 
were some "interesting" conversations. This summer, the SEC 
released the following:

http://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin/33-8113.htm

Yes, the investigation took two years, but the financial penalty 
for operating a pump-and-dump scam isn't small.  The wheels of 
government grind slow, but the grind very fine indeed.

--B



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Now that I have spam assassin and mailscanner working, how can I have smap
deleted rather than forwarded?

I changed spam.actions.conf to "default	delete" but it is still sending it
to the recipient.

Thanks,
Ken



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From: Matthew Cline 
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To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] O.T. Habeus -- Why?
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X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
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On Wednesday 28 August 2002 04:38 pm, Daniel Quinlan wrote:
> Matthew Cline  writes:
> > There must be *some* way of tracking a spammer down, since they are
> > planning on making money from the spam.  What a court would consider
> > evidence of being the spammer is another question.

> Haha!!!

> Just a few notes:

>  - It will be difficult to find, prosecute, and win money from someone
>    in various non-friendly countries where spam originates (China is a
>    good example) even if they do officially "respect" copyright law.

SA (and other filters) could be configured to ignore the SWE mark if it 
appears to come from/through China.

>  - Spammers do not always remember to include contact information!  I
>    don't understand it either, but nobody said they were bright.  Also,
>    some spam is non-commercial or sent by a third-party (for example,
>    "pump and dump" stock scams), so contact information is not strictly
>    required for the spammer to get their way.

SA could also be configured so that SWE marks are ignored in messages that 
look like third-party spam (like stock scams).  Of course, this would still 
mean that "The U.N. is going to invade America!" spams with SWE would get 
through.  Probably also need to ignore SWE in messages that look like 
Nigerian scams.

-- 
Give a man a match, and he'll be warm for a minute, but set him on
fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

ICQ: 132152059 | Advanced SPAM filtering software: http://spamassassin.org


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Subject: RE: [SAtalk] O.T. Habeus -- Why?
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Thread-Topic: [SAtalk] O.T. Habeus -- Why?
Thread-Index: AcJO7qte24+xcf7ESLmrGiiIRFMj4wAGlwww
From: "Dan Kohn" 
To: 
X-Originalarrivaltime: 29 Aug 2002 03:09:49.0231 (UTC) FILETIME=[890B3BF0:01C24F09]
X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
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Guys, the Habeas Infringers List (HIL) exists explicitly to deal with
spammers while we're getting judgments against them and especially in
other countries, where those judgments are harder to get.

Please note that nobody has ever had an incentive before to go after
regular spammers.  Yes, some attorneys general have prosecuted blatant
pyramid schemes, and ISPs have won some theft of service suits, but the
vast majority of spammers go forward with out any legal hassles.  So, I
can't understand how Daniel can assert that you can't track spammers
down when it's never really been tried.  We can subpoena the records of
the business they spammed on behalf of.  We can subpoena the records of
the ISP that provided them service, and of the credit card they used for
the whack-a-mole accounts.  We can use private investigators.  Yes,
these people are often lowlifes (chickenboners).  But, they're not
secret agents.  They're just trying to make a buck, and Habeas' whole
business is about finding them and putting them out of business

Habeas has the incentive to pursue spammers (that use our warrant mark)
in a way that no one ever has had before.  Given that our whole business
plan relies on Habeas becoming synonymous with "not spam", I can't
understand why you would assume ahead of time that we will be
unsuccessful, plan for that failure, and in so doing, remove the
potential of success, which is anti-spam filters like SA acting on the
Habeas warrant mark.

Daniel, it's easy enough for you to change the Habeas scores yourself on
your installation.  If Habeas fails to live up to its promise to only
license the warrant mark to non-spammers and to place all violators on
the HIL, then I have no doubt that Justin and Craig will quickly remove
us from the next release.  But, you're trying to kill Habeas before it
has a chance to show any promise.

At the end of the day, SpamAssassin is like the Club, in that it
encourages thieves (spammers) to just go after the next car (those
without SA) rather than yours.  Habeas can play the role of LoJack (the
transmitter), in enabling the apprehension of thieves so that they don't
steal any more cars.  But only if we're given a chance to succeed.

          - dan
--
Dan Kohn 
   

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Quinlan [mailto:quinlan@pathname.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 16:38
To: Matthew Cline
Cc: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] O.T. Habeus -- Why?


Matthew Cline  writes:

> There must be *some* way of tracking a spammer down, since they are
> planning on making money from the spam.  What a court would consider
> evidence of being the spammer is another question.

Haha!!!

Just a few notes:

 - It will be difficult to find, prosecute, and win money from someone
   in various non-friendly countries where spam originates (China is a
   good example) even if they do officially "respect" copyright law.

 - Law suits take time. Between now and conclusion of the first court
   case, we could have years of spam in our mail boxes!

 - Contact information can change: phone numbers, PO boxes, stolen
   cell phones, temporary email addresses, etc.

 - Spammers do not always remember to include contact information!  I
   don't understand it either, but nobody said they were bright.  Also,
   some spam is non-commercial or sent by a third-party (for example,
   "pump and dump" stock scams), so contact information is not strictly
   required for the spammer to get their way.

Dan


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From: Lars Hansson 
To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] O.T. Habeus -- Why?
Message-Id: <20020829112725.38902390.lars@unet.net.ph>
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On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 17:45:49 -0700
Brian McNett  wrote:

> The first court cases were actually concluded years ago. These 
> include many legal precedents which are used to protect the 
> rights of ISPs to block mail, and to terminate service to 
> spammers.

Yeah, but these would be different cases relating to copyright infringements,
not about ISP's blocking mail or not.


---
Lars Hansson


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From: Rick Beebe 
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Tru64 compile of SA
To: Don Newcomer 
Cc: Spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
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Don Newcomer wrote:
> I'm a new user (or about to be, hopefully) of SA but I've run into some
> compilation errors that prevent me from installing.  Rather than picking
> through the code, I thought I'd avoid reinventing the wheel and ask here.
> When I run the 'make', I get the following:
> 
> cc: Error: spamd/spamc.c, line 50: In this declaration, "in_addr_t" has no
> linka
> ge and has a prior declaration in this scope at line number 572 in file
> /usr/inc
> lude/sys/types.h. (nolinkage)
> typedef unsigned long   in_addr_t;      /* base type for internet address
> */

Don't worry about the warnings. To fix the error, edit spamc.c and right 
after the line that says:

#define EX__MAX 77

Add:

#if !defined __osf__
extern char *optarg;
typedef unsigned long   in_addr_t;      /* base type for internet address */
#endif

(you're adding the two lines that start with #).

--Rick



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	"Justin Mason" 
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    <32978.194.125.173.10.1030577657.squirrel@jmason.org>
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Subject: Re: [SAdev] 2.40: ready for release?
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> It's this section of spamassassin.raw:
>
> <<<<<<< spamassassin.raw
[...snip]       }
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
[... snip ...]
> >>>>>>> 1.68.2.10
[...snip...]

This is what cvs puts in when you modify the copy of the file on your disk
and someone checks in a change and then you pull an update and cvs can't
figure out how to merge your changes and the checked in changes. The lines
between the <<<<<< and the ===== are in your file and the ones in the next
section are what have been checked in. You must have not noticed the warning
messages about conflicts that cvs gave you when you did the update, and the
"C" flag next to that file when cvs listed the files being pulled.

 -- sidney




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To: Daniel Quinlan 
Cc: "Dan Kohn" ,
	
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] O.T. Habeus -- Why?
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    DanQ> I think it would make more sense to start Habeas with a less
    DanQ> aggressive score (one which will not give spammers a quick path
    DanQ> into everyone's inbox) and after we've seen evidence that the
    DanQ> system works, then we can increase the magnitude of the score.

Better yet, let the GA figure out the correct score. ;-) That will obviously
take awhile since you'll have to acquire enough messages with it, but it
should give you a good idea if the presence of Habeus headers are good spam
indicators or not.  If they are, my guess is that Habeus will probably not
succeed.

Taking things further off-topic: Does Habeus charge a license fee to
organizations who want to use their copyrighted material or is their sole
revenue stream to come from legal judgements?  On the one hand, if they
charge license fees, I'd worry that when times got tough they'd be somewhat
less critical of organizations we'd call spammers today in order to generate
license fees.  If not, I'd worry the pendulum would swing the other way and
they'd go after legitimate businesses in an attempt to generate more
revenues from judgements and/or out of court settlements.  Either way, it
seems like they have an interesting tightrope to walk.

-- 
Skip Montanaro
skip@pobox.com
consulting: http://manatee.mojam.com/~skip/resume.html


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Subject: Re: [SAtalk] O.T. Habeus -- Why?
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Dan Kohn  writes:

> Guys, the Habeas Infringers List (HIL) exists explicitly to deal with
> spammers while we're getting judgments against them and especially in
> other countries, where those judgments are harder to get.

My concern doesn't stem from failing to understand how your business is
intended to work.  My concern is the lack of empirical evidence that it
will reduce the amount of uncaught spam.

> Please note that nobody has ever had an incentive before to go after
> regular spammers.  Yes, some attorneys general have prosecuted blatant
> pyramid schemes, and ISPs have won some theft of service suits, but
> the vast majority of spammers go forward with out any legal hassles.
> So, I can't understand how Daniel can assert that you can't track
> spammers down when it's never really been tried.

Please don't misquote me.  I did not assert that you "can't track
spammers".  Here is what I said:

| It will be difficult to find, prosecute, and win money from someone in
| various non-friendly countries where spam originates (China is a good
| example) even if they do officially "respect" copyright law.

I understand the incentive that you have to pursue spammers, but that
does not directly translate to less spam being sent to my inbox.  It is
an indirect effect and the magnitude of the effect may not be sufficient
to counteract the ease with which a -20 score on the mark allows spam to
avoid being tagged as spam.

> Daniel, it's easy enough for you to change the Habeas scores yourself
> on your installation.  If Habeas fails to live up to its promise to
> only license the warrant mark to non-spammers and to place all
> violators on the HIL, then I have no doubt that Justin and Craig will
> quickly remove us from the next release.  But, you're trying to kill
> Habeas before it has a chance to show any promise.

I think I've worked on SA enough to understand that I can localize a
score.  I'm just not comfortable with using SpamAssassin as a vehicle
for drumming up your business at the expense of our user base.

I think it would make more sense to start Habeas with a less aggressive
score (one which will not give spammers a quick path into everyone's
inbox) and after we've seen evidence that the system works, then we can
increase the magnitude of the score.

Dan


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Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 00:04:14 -0600
X-Pyzor: Reported 0 times.
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-9.2 required=7.0
	tests=IN_REP_TO,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,
	      SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,USER_AGENT_OUTLOOK
	version=2.40-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

> I think I've worked on SA enough to understand that I can localize a
> score.  I'm just not comfortable with using SpamAssassin as a vehicle
> for drumming up your business at the expense of our user base.

This is exactly what I think. SpamAssassin has always been conservative
about adding unproven RBLs and such, and this should be the same.

> I think it would make more sense to start Habeas with a less aggressive
> score (one which will not give spammers a quick path into everyone's
> inbox) and after we've seen evidence that the system works, then we can
> increase the magnitude of the score.

I say start it with a zero score and put it in 70_cvs_rules_under_test like
any other unproven rule. Then score it based on actual results, not
promises. My corpus does not yet contain a single non-spam (or spam) message
with a Habeas mark. Based on that, it doesn't impress me and it wouldn't
impress the GA either. Rules with exactly the same statistics are being
dropped from SA right now, and I don't see why this should be any different.

--
Michael Moncur  mgm at starlingtech.com  http://www.starlingtech.com/
"Furious activity is no substitute for understanding." --H. H. Williams



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1478.493c4ba8cee0986a8cabb3953a40fb5b.eml000066400000000000000000000103701444326627400314250ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Aug 29 13:00:56 2002
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From: Matt Sergeant 
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0rc1) Gecko/20020426
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Urban Boquist 
Cc: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] SA very slow (hangs?) on this message, or is it just me?
References: <15726.1821.102072.86673@iller.crt.se>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net
Errors-To: spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net
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Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:46:12 +0100
X-Pyzor: Reported 0 times.
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-8.5 required=7.0
	tests=KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,
	      SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,
	      X_ACCEPT_LANG
	version=2.40-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Urban Boquist wrote:
> If I run spamassassin on this message:
> 
>    http://www.boquist.net/stort-sup-brev
> 
> it seems to hang. Memory usage goes up to 73MB and stays there. I have
> let it run for an hour before I killed it. This was on a
> Pentium-II-366. Yes, I know, a bit slow, but still...
> 
> Can anyone else confirm this hang? Maybe I should just upgrade...

Don't run SA on mails this large. Most people tend to ignore mails 
larger than about 250K in spamassassin processing, because it just kills 
performance. There are some known issues with the parsing (such as the 
HTML parsing stuff which is much improved in 2.40 which we're soon to 
release), but nothing that's too likely to be fixed by 2.40. Perhaps in 
2.50 though.

Matt.




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Cc: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
References: <15726.1821.102072.86673@iller.crt.se>
    <3D6E0984.5030708@startechgroup.co.uk>
    <15726.5113.595562.513688@iller.crt.se>
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] SA very slow (hangs?) on this message, or is it just me?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
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	tests=KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,
	      SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,
	      X_ACCEPT_LANG
	version=2.40-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Urban Boquist wrote:
> Hi Matt, and thanks for your quick reply.
> 
> Matt> Don't run SA on mails this large.
> 
> That would be fine, if I only understood how I should do that. I can't
> find anything in the SA documention that mentions some kind of upper
> limit for the size of a message. What should I put in my user_prefs
> file?
> 
> I run SA from procmail btw, but I can't imagine that procmail would be
> able to check the size of a message before handing it over to SA?

That's exactly what it can do:

:0fw <250000
| spamassassin -P






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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1480.ea8e1a4bb0cfd66e9f04c4f3c1c3379e.eml000066400000000000000000000103021444326627400314720ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-commits-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Aug 29 14:47:39 2002
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To: spamassassin-commits@example.sourceforge.net
Message-Id: 
From: Justin Mason 
Subject: [SACVS] CVS: spamassassin procmailrc.example,1.3,1.3.2.1
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	tests=KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,PATCH_UNIFIED_DIFF,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01
	version=2.40-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Update of /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin
In directory usw-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv7642

Modified Files:
      Tag: b2_4_0
	procmailrc.example 
Log Message:
added length limit to sample procmail recipe

Index: procmailrc.example
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/procmailrc.example,v
retrieving revision 1.3
retrieving revision 1.3.2.1
diff -b -w -u -d -r1.3 -r1.3.2.1
--- procmailrc.example	16 Aug 2002 18:34:27 -0000	1.3
+++ procmailrc.example	29 Aug 2002 13:37:43 -0000	1.3.2.1
@@ -1,5 +1,7 @@
-# Pipe the mail through spamassassin
+# Pipe the mail through spamassassin, unless it's over 256k
+# (SpamAssassin can take a long time to process large messages)
 :0fw
+* < 256000
 | spamassassin
 
 # Move it to the "caughtspam" mbox if it was tagged as spam



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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
From: "Malte S. Stretz" 
To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] SA very slow (hangs?) on this message, or is it just me?
User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3
References: 
In-Reply-To: 
X-Spam-Checker: SpamAssassin 
X-Accept-Language: de, en
X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
X-Habeas-Swe-2: brightly anticipated
X-Habeas-Swe-3: like Habeas SWE (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this
X-Habeas-Swe-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas
X-Habeas-Swe-7: Warrant Mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant
X-Habeas-Swe-8: Message (HCM) and not spam. Please report use of this
X-Habeas-Swe-9: mark in spam to .
X-Foo: Bar
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-Id: <200208291701.27688@malte.stretz.eu.org>
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X-Pyzor: Reported 0 times.
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-30.7 required=7.0
	tests=FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,HABEAS_SWE,IN_REP_TO,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,
	      QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,
	      SPAM_PHRASE_02_03,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_KMAIL,X_ACCEPT_LANG
	version=2.40-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

On Thursday 29 August 2002 16:39 CET Mike Burger wrote:
> >[...]
> > re-check I find it immediately:
> > :0fw
> > * < 250000
> > | spamassassin -P
> >
> > Works perfectly now. Sorry for being such a pest! ;-)
> >[...]
>
> I'm using SA via spamc/spamd, and a global /etc/procmail file.  I'm
> wondering if this would also work in that fashion.

spamc will skip every file bigger than 250k on it's own. It's got the 
command line switch -s to change this value. But it doesn't hurt of course 
to use the procmail limit.

Malte

-- 
-- Coding is art.
-- 




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From: Klaus Heinz 
To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Cc: urban@boquist.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] SA very slow (hangs?) on this message, or is it just me?
Message-Id: <20020829180628.A1796@silence.homedns.org>
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Urban Boquist wrote:

> it seems to hang. Memory usage goes up to 73MB and stays there. I have
> let it run for an hour before I killed it. This was on a
> Pentium-II-366. Yes, I know, a bit slow, but still...
> 
> Can anyone else confirm this hang? Maybe I should just upgrade...
> 
> My environment is: SA-2.31, perl-5.6 running on NetBSD-1.6F.

Version 2.40-cvs (from today) on NetBSD/i386 1.5.2 (Athlon 1500):

  Aug 29 17:55:53 silence spamd[2052]: processing message
  <20020829093613.6A00319300@groda.boquist.net> for kh:1234, expecting
  1744014 bytes. 
  Aug 29 17:57:10 silence spamd[2052]: clean message (2.5/5.0) for
  kh:1234 in  77 seconds, 1744014 bytes. 

Resident size about 75MB, according to top.

ciao
     Klaus




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1483.0e8f2eee9641c6af54fb45495cb65018.eml000066400000000000000000000116521444326627400312230ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Aug 29 17:13:52 2002
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To: Bart Schaefer 
Cc: Spamassassin-Talk 
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] O.T. Habeus -- Why?
In-Reply-To: Message from Bart Schaefer  of
    "Thu, 29 Aug 2002 08:32:08 PDT."
    
From: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
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Bart Schaefer said:

> This is off the topic of the rest of this discussion, but amavisd (in all
> its incarnations) and MIMEDefang and several other MTA plugins all reject
> at SMTP time messages that scores higher than some threshold (often 10).  

argh, they do not, do they?   the FPs must be just gigantic :(

> If some new release were to start scoring all spam no higher than 5.1,
> there'd better be _zero_ FPs, because all those filters would drop their
> thresholds to 5.

Well, my point is more that we should aim our rescoring algorithm so that
a spam hits 5.0.    Any higher does us no good, as it means an FP is
a lot harder to recover from, using compensation rules.

Spams *will* hit higher than that -- that's just the way the scoring works.
but for our code to be effective, and spread the range of scores
correctly, we just have to optimise to hit 1 threshold.

--j.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1484.b12cd10a9234dd4c294f93ba7b3944d4.eml000066400000000000000000000106521444326627400311760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Aug 29 17:24:07 2002
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Subject: Re: [SAtalk] UPPERCASE_* rules and foreign character sets
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On Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 11:37:02AM +0100, Clayton, Nik [IT] wrote:
> Have the UPPERCASE_* rules been tested on messages in non-English 
> character sets, and/or where the message is MIME encoded in some way?
> 
> I'm getting a lot of false positives on Japanese mail, and I think the 
> encoding is responsible for triggering this rule.

Like Justin said, this is fixed in CVS.

Dan.


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Justin Mason  [2002-08-29 17:00:12 +0100]:
> Well, my point is more that we should aim our rescoring algorithm so that
> a spam hits 5.0.    Any higher does us no good, as it means an FP is
> a lot harder to recover from, using compensation rules.

Agreed.

But I have always thought that the value 5 was not the best value.  It
should have been 0.  I understand that initially only spammy scores
were included.  But I believe the algorithm should be purely
symmetrical and non-spammy negative values should also have been
balancing out the spammy positive values, like they do in SA today.
Then anything that was positive would be spam and anything negative
would be non-spam.  (And I guess exactly zero is grey. :-) Today's
choice of 5 just adds an offset.  Which I think cause people to assume
things work differently than they do.

Bob

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1486.1ff97d5b7b97423fb1ec74f6a54fc225.eml000066400000000000000000000036341444326627400313100ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: quinlan@pathname.com  Mon Sep  2 12:32:26 2002
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Subject: Re: [SAdev] GA-assigned SPAM_PHRASE_55_XX score
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jm@jmason.org (Justin Mason) writes:

> BTW I tried tweaking some of the scores that lint-rules complained about
> being negative when they shouldn't be, and it *ruined* the results.  it's
> worth hand-tweaking a bit, but in some cases, there's counter-intuitive
> combinatorial effects like the above, so be careful when tweaking; run
> a "./logs-to-c && ./evolve -C" to check the new hitrates afterwards.

My tendency is to say that we shouldn't tweak at all.

- Dan

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1487.0dec4dc8ef9439d54e1605b2a526e2ff.eml000066400000000000000000000036331444326627400313600ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: craig@deersoft.com  Mon Sep  2 12:35:35 2002
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Nanananana

C

On Friday, August 30, 2002, at 02:19  AM, Justin Mason wrote:

> Looks like my algos aren't flexible enough, and Craig wins ;)


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1488.6694aa49b517656806a631deeb8f89a8.eml000066400000000000000000000077621444326627400311130ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: craig@hughes-family.org  Mon Sep  2 13:12:49 2002
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From: Craig R Hughes 
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To: Daniel Quinlan 
Cc: "Craig R.Hughes" ,
	Justin Mason ,
	SpamAssassin Developers 
Subject: Re: [SAdev] results of scorer evaluation
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Daniel Quinlan wrote:

DQ> Before we release, it'd be great if someone could test a few
DQ> additional score ranges.  Maybe we can lower FPs a bit more.  :-)

I don't think there's much more room for lowering FPs left which the GA can 
achieve.  Remember, also, that the AWL will reduce FPs, but its effects aren't 
factored in to the GA scores.

The work currently being done on the GA, and comparing different methods of 
doing the score-setting, is very worthwhile, and extremely useful; however, we 
really ought to get a release out, since 2.31 is getting decreasingly useful as 
time goes on.

The FP/FN rate of 2.40 with pretty well *any* score-setting mechanism will be 
better than 2.31 -- we can continue with adjusting how the scores are set on the 
2.41 or 2.50 branches.

DQ> Something like:
DQ> 
DQ>   for (low = -12; low <= -4; low += 2)
DQ>     for (high = 2; high <= 6; high += 2)
DQ>       evolve

You could just allow low and high to be evolved by the GA (within ranges); I'd 
be enormously surprised if it didn't end up with low=-12 and high=+6, since 
that'd give the GA the broadest lattitude in setting individual scores.  The 
issue with fixing low and high is not one of optimization, but rather one of 
human-based concern that individual scores larger than about +4 are dangerous 
and liable to generate FPs, and individual scores less than -8 are dangerous and 
liable to be forged to generate FNs.

DQ> Maybe even add a nybias loop.

Adding an nybias loop is not worthwhile -- changing nybias scores will just 
alter the evaluation function's idea of what the FP:FN ratio should be.

DQ> > AFAIK there's nothing major hanging out waiting to be checked in 
DQ> > on b2_4_0 is there?
DQ> 
DQ> Nope.

Great!

DQ> > I'll be on IM most of today, tomorrow, and monday while cranking 
DQ> > on the next Deersoft product release (should be a fun one).  Hit 
DQ> > me at:
DQ> > 
DQ> > AIM: hugh3scr
DQ> > ICQ: 1130120
DQ> > MSN: craig@stanfordalumni.org
DQ> > YIM: hughescr
DQ> 
DQ> We've been hanging out on IRC at irc.rhizomatic.net on #spamassassin
DQ> (the timezone difference gets in the way, though).

I've been searching for that, but I guess the details of where the channel was 
got lost in the shuffle.

C


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1489.d724933540e63e324268925f6c803361.eml000066400000000000000000000116511444326627400305040ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Mon Sep  2 16:24:19 2002
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From: Jim McCullars 
To: Spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Tru64 compile of SA
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On Thu, 29 Aug 2002, Rick Beebe wrote:

> > cc: Error: spamd/spamc.c, line 50: In this declaration, "in_addr_t" has no
> > linka
> > ge and has a prior declaration in this scope at line number 572 in file
> > /usr/inc
> > lude/sys/types.h. (nolinkage)
> > typedef unsigned long   in_addr_t;      /* base type for internet address
> > */
>
> Don't worry about the warnings. To fix the error, edit spamc.c and right

   Thanks for posting this tip - I had the same problem compiling with
Tru64 and that took care of it.

   When I did the "make install" I got this error:

LOCK:  -f /etc/mail/spamassassin/local.cf
 || cp rules/local.cf /etc/mail/spamassassin/local.cf
sh: syntax error at line 1: `||' unexpected
*** Exit 2
Stop.

   It appears that this comes from the "inst_cfs:" part of the Makefile,
which copies local.cf into /etc/mail/spamassassin.  The Makefile has
brackets around the -f test, but they don't show up above.  Any ideas?

Jim
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
* James H. McCullars                 I Phone: (256) 824-2610              *
* Director of Systems & Operations   I Fax:   (256) 824-6643              *
* Computer & Network Services        I Internet: mccullj@email.uah.edu    *
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From: Theo Van Dinter 
To: Justin Mason 
Cc: Spamassassin Devel List 
Subject: Re: [SAdev] SpamAssassin v2.40 released (finally)!
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On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 06:53:24PM +0100, Justin Mason wrote:
>   - Razor v2 now supported fully

  Who changed my code?    Dns.pm and Reporter.pm WRT Razor
have pointers to $Mail::SpamAssassin::DEBUG, whereas it should be
$Mail::SpamAssassin::DEBUG->{enabled}...

I'll be submitting a bug/patch for this shortly.

--=20
Randomly Generated Tagline:
MA Driving #2: Everything is under construction.

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1492.fcfeff3d31bfad092220ca731a40c05e.eml000066400000000000000000000107221444326627400314530ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Aug 23 11:06:52 2002
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I know that I did this during the week that all the catalogue's were
hokey but after that I changed it back to discovery.  So I can see why
people are using honor.

-----Original Message-----
From: Vipul Ved Prakash [mailto:mail@vipul.net] 
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 5:55 PM
To: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: [Razor-users] honor is not in csl


Folks, 

Some of you seem to have hardcoded honor as the default catalogue
server. There are three catalogue only servers running now, and honor is
acting as a nomination only server. Tonight we will be completely
turning off catalogue support on honor, so if you are specifying honor
with the -rs option, please take it out and let the agents discover a
closeby catalogue server.

cheers,
vipul.


-- 

Vipul Ved Prakash          |   "The future is here, it's just not 
Software Design Artist     |    widely distributed."
http://vipul.net/          |              -- William Gibson



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From: Julian Bond 
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Subject: [Razor-users] Razor with sendmail
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I'm after a recipe for using Razor with Sendmail. Unfortunately, I can't 
get Procmail on my hosting but I do have full access to the Sendmail 
alias list.

Can anyone point me at some docs for this as I couldn't find anything in 
the Razor docs.

-- 
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Subject: [Razor-users] Razor 2.14 - the day after
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I recently installed Razor v2.14 and started using it.  I am finding it
necessary to whitelist a _lot_ of mailing lists.  Some, such as yahoogroups,
I can't whitelist because the from: address is the person making the post,
so I will have to whitelist on another field when I can modify my code to do
so.  I wonder if someone is not being careful about their submissions, or if
these are bad mailing lists that don't drop bad mail addresses that become
trollboxes in time.

Any employee who has left my company more than three years ago is eligible
to become a trollbox.  I figure after three years of bounced mail, the list
should have figured out they aren't here any more.

Fox



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From: William Stearns 
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To: Fox 
Cc: ML-razor-users ,
	William Stearns 
Subject: Re: [Razor-users] Razor 2.14 - the day after
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Good day, Fox,

On Fri, 23 Aug 2002, Fox wrote:

> I recently installed Razor v2.14 and started using it.  I am finding it
> necessary to whitelist a _lot_ of mailing lists.  Some, such as yahoogroups,
> I can't whitelist because the from: address is the person making the post,
> so I will have to whitelist on another field when I can modify my code to do
> so.  I wonder if someone is not being careful about their submissions, or if
> these are bad mailing lists that don't drop bad mail addresses that become
> trollboxes in time.

	I've found excellent luck with the X-Been____There header (____'s 
added to to avoid tripping procmail rules):

____X-Been____There: news@jabber.org

	Cheers,
	- Bill

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
	"Nynex.  Iroquois for Moron"
	-- A well-known Linux kernel hacker.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
William Stearns (wstearns@pobox.com).  Mason, Buildkernel, named2hosts, 
and ipfwadm2ipchains are at:                        http://www.stearns.org
--------------------------------------------------------------------------




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On Fri, Aug 23, 2002 at 03:03:05PM -0400, Rose, Bobby wrote:
> If you didn't add it when compile would be one way.  Another would be to
> grep your sendmail.cf for the word Milter.

I don't know if there's a sendmail-ish way (it's not in the -d0.1 output),
but this should work:

$ strings `which sendmail` | grep -i milter

If you get a long list of function/message looking phrases, milter
is built-in.  If you get something like:

Warning: Filter usage ('X') requires Milter support (-DMILTER)
Milter Warning: Option: %s requires Milter support (-DMILTER)
@(#)$Id: milter.c,v 1.1.1.2 2002/03/12 18:00:36 zarzycki Exp $

then it's not built-in. :)

--=20
Randomly Generated Tagline:
"M: Can anyone tell us the lesson that has been learned here?
  S: Yes Master, not a single one of us could defeat you.
  M: You gain wisdom child ... "            - The Frantics

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Subject: Re: [Razor-users] Razor with sendmail
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"Bort, Paul"  wrote:
>If your sendmail has been compiled with Milter support, you can add SMRazor
>easily. We've been using it for a while without problems. Others on the list
>have mentioned it as well.
>
>http://www.sapros.com/smrazor/

Is there an easy way to tell if Milter is compiled in?

-- 
Julian Bond Email&MSM: julian.bond@voidstar.com
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From: "Rose, Bobby" 
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If you didn't add it when compile would be one way.  Another would be to
grep your sendmail.cf for the word Milter.

-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Bond [mailto:julian_bond@voidstar.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 2:48 PM
To: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Razor-users] Razor with sendmail


"Bort, Paul"  wrote:
>If your sendmail has been compiled with Milter support, you can add 
>SMRazor easily. We've been using it for a while without problems. 
>Others on the list have mentioned it as well.
>
>http://www.sapros.com/smrazor/

Is there an easy way to tell if Milter is compiled in?

-- 
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Webmaster:              http://www.ecademy.com/
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On Fri, Aug 23, 2002 at 04:17:55PM -0400, Sven Willenberger wrote:
> To see all the options compiled into (and version of) sendmail, try the
> following line:
>=20
> echo \$Z | /path/to/sendmail -bt -d0

gives you the same information as "sendmail -d0.1 < /dev/null", which
doesn't include milter information.  (actually the -d0 part gives you the
info, the $Z gives you sendmail version out of the test mode (-bt)... so
it's slightly different, but not really.)

--=20
Randomly Generated Tagline:
Be warned that typing \fBkillall \fIname\fP may not have the desired
 effect on non-Linux systems, especially when done by a privileged user.
 (From the killall manual page)

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From: David Wheeler 
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To: Giorgio Zoppi , secprog@securityfocus.com
Subject: Re: Storing passwords
References: <3D66376D.4000809@ida.org> <20020827122630.D7017@cli.di.unipi.it>
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If you need to store a database password, then
clearly the first step is to store the text outside the
web tree.  You can encrypt it and store the encryption key elsewhere,
so that at least an attacker has to get two different things.
Also, don't get full privileges - create a user account that
is GRANTed very limited access.

However, you can often do better than this if security
is critical.  Create a separate program which has these
database keys (as noted above), and make the web program
contact IT.  Create a very limited protocol that ONLY
lets you do the operations you need (you can add specific
operations later).  There's a performance hit, which you're
trading for improved data isolation.



Giorgio Zoppi wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 23, 2002, David Wheeler wrote:
> 
> 
>>The standard way to store passwords is... not to
>>store passwords.  Instead, store a salted hash of
>>the password in a database.  When you get a purported
>>password, you re-salt it, compute the hash, and
>>determine if they are the same.  This is how
>>Unix has done it for years.  You want bigger hashes
>>and salts than the old Unix systems, and you still want
>>to prevent reading from those files (to foil password crackers).
>>More info is in my book at:
>>   http://www.dwheeler.com/secure-programs
>>
> 
> Well...but this cannot be applied to database password, which most
> web apps use. The only solution I figure is store in clear outside web
> tree, any other ideas feasible?
> 
> Ciao,
> Giorgio.
> 
> --
> Never is Forever - deneb@penguin.it
> Homepage: http://www.cli.di.unipi.it/~zoppi/index.html
> --
> 
> 
> 


-- 

--- David A. Wheeler
     dwheeler@ida.org



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1501.5c83f8ccf80ccff0b82b04a8e09d69ec.eml000066400000000000000000000053411444326627400315060ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ygingras@eclipsys.qc.ca  Tue Sep  3 17:20:22 2002
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From: Yannick Gingras 
To: secprog@securityfocus.com
Subject: Secure Sofware Key
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2002 17:46:27 -0400
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Hi, 
   I am wondering if there are any techniques to make a CD-Key of the like 
unbreakable.  Either by giving it a cancelation date and a periodic renewal 
from a server or just by using self md5 signature on the resulting 
executable.  I know it must not be easy because the whole software piracy 
problem would be resolved but there must be some way to make it really hard 
to break it.  Anyone have hints on this issue ?

Thanks

- -- 
Yannick Gingras
Network Programer
ESC:wq
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1502.1376704c3bd9c110fe3a5d0768745d91.eml000066400000000000000000000054411444326627400307560ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ygingras@ygingras.net  Tue Sep  3 22:18:53 2002
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From: Yannick Gingras 
To: secprog@securityfocus.com
Subject: Re: Secure Sofware Key
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 15:33:52 -0400
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Le 3 Septembre 2002 12:43, vous avez �crit :
> Yannick,
> You'll want to peruse Fravia's web site on reverse engineering (and other
> things) http://www.woodmann.com/fravia/protec.htm. That specific page
> covers just your concerns.
>
> Josh

Thanks for the input.  Some of the tips are quite portable but are there any 
special attentions to take when implementing such shemes on a UNIX system ?

Thanks.

- -- 
Yannick Gingras
Coder for OBB : Ostentatiously Breathless Brother-in-law
http://OpenBeatBox.org
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From: Yannick Gingras 
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Subject: Re: Secure Sofware Key
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> What do you mean by "CD-Key or the like" (I presume that "of" was a
> typo)? And what do you mean by "unbreakable"?

"of" was a typo

Unbreakable would mean here that no one, even previously authorised entity, 
could use the system without paying the periodic subscription fee.

> You need to be far more explicit about the problem which you wish to
> solve, and about the constraints involved.

It could be an online system that work 95% offline but poll frequently an 
offsite server.  No mass production CDs, maybe mass personalised d/l like Sun 
JDK.

Nothing is fixed yet, we are looking at the way a software can be protected 
from unauthorized utilisation.  

Is the use of "trusted hardware" really worth it ?  Does it really make it 
more secure ?  Look at the DVDs.

- -- 
Yannick Gingras
Coder for OBB : Obdurately Buteonine Bellwether
http://OpenBeatBox.org
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Subject: Re: Secure Sofware Key
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Yannick Gingras wrote:

>    I am wondering if there are any techniques to make a CD-Key of the like 
> unbreakable.  Either by giving it a cancelation date and a periodic renewal 
> from a server or just by using self md5 signature on the resulting 
> executable.  I know it must not be easy because the whole software piracy 
> problem would be resolved but there must be some way to make it really hard 
> to break it.  Anyone have hints on this issue ?

What do you mean by "CD-Key or the like" (I presume that "of" was a
typo)? And what do you mean by "unbreakable"?

You need to be far more explicit about the problem which you wish to
solve, and about the constraints involved.

Some general points:

1. For a conventional "CD key" system, where the actual CDs are
mass-produced (where you have many identical CDs), and the entire
system has to work offline, you cannot solve the problem of valid keys
being "traded" (e.g. included along with bootleg copies of the
product).

If there's an online element involved, you can "tie" keys to a
specific hardware configuration, as is done (AFAIK) for Windows XP's
"product activation".

2. Anything which uses a symmetric cipher (or hash) is bound to be
vulnerable to reverse engineering of the validation routines within
the executable.

3. Ultimately, any software mechanism will be vulnerable to
"cracking", i.e. modifying the software to disable or circumvent the
validation checks.

This can only be prevented by the use of trusted hardware (e.g. a
Palladium-style system).

Most significantly, the data must be supplied in a form which is only
accessible by that hardware. If anyone can get at the data in a
meaningful (i.e. unencrypted) form, they can extract the useful parts
and discard the rest (i.e. any associated protection mechanisms).

IOW, you have to "keep the genie in the bottle" at all times. If the
data can be got at just once (even if it requires the use of dedicated
hardware such as a bus analyser), it can then be duplicated and
distributed without limit.

-- 
Glynn Clements 

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1505.7cc0d1e500937105c1503d63bd0b5161.eml000066400000000000000000000102721444326627400307210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: glynn.clements@virgin.net  Wed Sep  4 18:58:43 2002
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Yannick Gingras wrote:

> > What do you mean by "CD-Key or the like" (I presume that "of" was a
> > typo)? And what do you mean by "unbreakable"?
> 
> "of" was a typo
> 
> Unbreakable would mean here that no one, even previously authorised entity, 
> could use the system without paying the periodic subscription fee.
> 
> > You need to be far more explicit about the problem which you wish to
> > solve, and about the constraints involved.
> 
> It could be an online system that work 95% offline but poll frequently an 
> offsite server.  No mass production CDs, maybe mass personalised d/l like Sun 
> JDK.
> 
> Nothing is fixed yet, we are looking at the way a software can be protected 
> from unauthorized utilisation.  
> 
> Is the use of "trusted hardware" really worth it ?

Answering that requires fairly complete knowledge of the business
model. But, in all probability: no, it isn't usually worth it. So, it
comes down to how difficult you want to make the cracker's job.

If the product requires occasional authentication, simple copying
won't work; the product has to be cracked. In which case, the issue is
whether you're actually going to enter into battle with the crackers,
or just make sure that it isn't trivial.

A lot of it comes down to your customer base. Teenage kids tend to be
more concerned about cost and less concerned about viruses/trojans,
and so more willing to use warez. Fortune-500 corporations are likely
to view matters differently.

> Does it really make it more secure ?

Yes; software techniques will only get you so far. Actually, the same
is ultimately true for hardware, but cracking hardware is likely to
require resources other than just labour.

Almost (?) anything can be reverse engineered. But it may be possible
to ensure that doing so is uneconomical.

> Look at the DVDs.

IIRC, CSS was cracked by reverse-engineering a software player; and
one where the developers forgot to encrypt the decryption key at that.

-- 
Glynn Clements 

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1506.df1d0b609d034c834e290e7e3732e392.eml000066400000000000000000000064131444326627400310410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ygingras@ygingras.net  Wed Sep  4 18:58:57 2002
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To: secprog@securityfocus.com
Subject: Re: Secure Sofware Key
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> > Is the use of "trusted hardware" really worth it ?
>
> Answering that requires fairly complete knowledge of the business
> model. But, in all probability: no, it isn't usually worth it. So, it
> comes down to how difficult you want to make the cracker's job.
>
> > Look at the DVDs.
>
> IIRC, CSS was cracked by reverse-engineering a software player; and
> one where the developers forgot to encrypt the decryption key at that.

This make me wonder about the relative protection of smart cards.  They have 
an internal procession unit around 4MHz.  Can we consider them as trusted 
hardware ?  The ability to ship smart cards periodicaly uppon cashing of a 
monthly subscription fee would not raise too much the cost of "renting" the 
system.  Smart card do their own self encryption.  Can they be used to 
decrypt data needed by the system ?  The input of the system could me mangled 
and the would keep a reference of how long it was in service.

This sounds really feasible but I may be totaly wrong.  I may also be wrong 
about the safety of a smart card.  

What do you think ?

-- 
Yannick Gingras
Coder for OBB : Oceangoing Bared Bonanza
http://OpenBeatBox.org


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1507.381db954fc6fe8df9646172b53db92ad.eml000066400000000000000000000076311444326627400313100ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ygingras@ygingras.net  Wed Sep  4 18:59:01 2002
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From: Yannick Gingras 
To: secprog@securityfocus.com
Subject: Re: Secure Sofware Key
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 06:52:07 -0400
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References: <20020829204345.91D1833986@LINPDC.eclipsys.qc.ca>
    <20020903192326.C9DA533986@LINPDC.eclipsys.qc.ca>
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> Software vendors have been trying since forever to prevent software piracy.
> Remember when you had to enter a specific word from a specific page of the
> software manual, which was printed on dark maroon paper so that it could
> not be photocopied?  Didn't work.  Propritery encoding of DVD's?  Didn't
> work. Software that required the use of a registration key?  Didn't work. 
> Windows XP was shipped with this supposedly revolutionary method for
> stopping piracy, and what happened?  How long was it before the code was
> cracked? How many keygens are there for Windows XP?  Is someone running a
> pirated version of XP really going to use Windows Update to installed a
> service pack which breaks their OS?  Just because M$ didn't include the
> change in their README?  Fat chance.

My problem is not the same as MS's one, I don't have to deal with millions of 
identical copy of the same CD with propably millions of working keys.  Each 
download can be unique with a small preparation delay.  The key generator is 
a problem only if multiple keys are usable.  If the end users are teenagers, 
you'll face a huge wall when asking to be 100% of the time online but if we 
think of something like a health care system that keep track of patients 
personnal information, the end user will be willing to take every possible 
steps to protect the system from his own employees to use illegaly.

I agree with all of you that mass production CDs will not be safe from piracy 
in a near futur.  That can be seen as a collateral of mass market 
penetration.

BTW thanks for all of you who provided interestiong insight.  I'm playing with 
gdb's dissassembler now but I don't think it's what a typical cracker would 
use.  Any hints on UNIX cracking tools ?

Thanks.

-- 
Yannick Gingras
Coder for OBB : Onside Brainsick Bract
http://OpenBeatBox.org


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1508.334b2eb6c70ba66605ebefc97924e7b3.eml000066400000000000000000000052471444326627400312730ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: ben@algroup.co.uk  Wed Sep  4 18:59:06 2002
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Yannick Gingras wrote:
> Is the use of "trusted hardware" really worth it ?  Does it really make it 
> more secure ?  Look at the DVDs.

DVDs don't use trusted hardware. As for whether it is worth it, that 
depends entirely on what its worth to secure your software.

Cheers,

Ben.

-- 
http://www.apache-ssl.org/ben.html       http://www.thebunker.net/

"There is no limit to what a man can do or how far he can go if he
doesn't mind who gets the credit." - Robert Woodruff


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1509.dd0b9717ec7e25f4adb5a5aefa204ba1.eml000066400000000000000000000007551444326627400315470ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: whisper@oz.net
Delivery-Date: Thu Sep  5 23:42:38 2002
From: whisper@oz.net (David LeBlanc)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 15:42:38 -0700
Subject: [Spambayes] All but one testing
Message-ID: 

Errr... not to be pedantic or anything, but this is called "omit one
testing" or OOT in the literature IIRC. Helpful in case you're searching for
additional information, say at http://citeseer.nj.nec.com/ for instance.

David LeBlanc
Seattle, WA USA

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1510.ce7b07a2114218dbac682b599785820d.eml000066400000000000000000000046261444326627400310410ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: nas@python.ca
Delivery-Date: Thu Sep  5 23:49:23 2002
From: nas@python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 15:49:23 -0700
Subject: [Spambayes] all but one testing
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20020905190420.GB19726@glacier.arctrix.com>
	
Message-ID: <20020905224923.GA20480@glacier.arctrix.com>

Tim Peters wrote:
> I've run no experiments on training set size yet, and won't hazard a guess
> as to how much is enough.  I'm nearly certain that the 4000h+2750s I've been
> using is way more than enough, though.

Okay, I believe you.

> Each call to learn() and to unlearn() computes a new probability for every
> word in the database.  There's an official way to avoid that in the first
> two loops, e.g.
> 
>     for msg in spam:
>         gb.learn(msg, True, False)
>     gb.update_probabilities()

I did that.  It's still really slow when you have thousands of messages.

> In each of the last two loops, the total # of ham and total # of spam in the
> "learned" set is invariant across loop trips, and you *could* break into the
> abstraction to exploit that:  the only probabilities that actually change
> across those loop trips are those associated with the words in msg.  Then
> the runtime for each trip would be proportional to the # of words in the msg
> rather than the number of words in the database.

I hadn't tried that.  I figured it was better to find out if "all but
one" testing had any appreciable value.  It looks like it doesn't so
I'll forget about it.

> Another area for potentially fruitful study:  it's clear that the
> highest-value indicators usually appear "early" in msgs, and for spam
> there's an actual reason for that:  advertising has to strive to get your
> attention early.  So, for example, if we only bothered to tokenize the first
> 90% of a msg, would results get worse?

Spammers could exploit this including a large MIME part at the beginning
of the message.  In pratice that would probably work fine.  

> sometimes an on-topic message starts well but then rambles.

Never.  I remember the time when I was ten years old and went down to
the fishing hole with my buddies.  This guy named Gordon had a really
huge head.  Wait, maybe that was Joe.  Well, no matter.  As I recall, it
was a hot day and everyone was tired...Human Growth Hormone...girl with
huge breasts...blah blah blah......

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1511.de6a5fe900081a0492fb84f6bfae46a1.eml000066400000000000000000000010671444326627400313310ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: nas@python.ca
Delivery-Date: Thu Sep  5 23:56:01 2002
From: nas@python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 15:56:01 -0700
Subject: [Spambayes] All but one testing
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20020905225601.GA20578@glacier.arctrix.com>

David LeBlanc wrote:
> Errr... not to be pedantic or anything, but this is called "omit one
> testing" or OOT in the literature IIRC.

I have no idea.  I made up the name.  Thanks for the correction.

  Neil
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1512.97da4f8a986b55cbe1f81bb22836ac58.eml000066400000000000000000000030211444326627400312650ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 03:14:07 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 22:14:07 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] test sets?
In-Reply-To: <15735.50243.135743.32180@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: 

[Skip Montanaro]
> Any thought to wrapping up your spam and ham test sets for
> inclusion w/ the spambayes project?

I gave it all the thought it deserved .  It would be wonderful to get
several people cranking on the same test data, and I'm all in favor of that.
OTOH, my Data/ subtree currently has more than 35,000 files slobbering over
134 million bytes -- even if I had a place to put that much stuff, I'm not
sure my ISP would let me email it in one msg .

Apart from that, there was a mistake very early on whose outcome was that
this isn't the data I hoped I was using.  I *hoped* I was using a snapshot
of only recent msgs (to match the snapshot this way of only spam from 2002),
but turns out they actually go back to the last millennium.  Greg Ward is
currently capturing a stream coming into python.org, and I hope we can get a
more modern, and cleaner, test set out of that.  But if that stream contains
any private email, it may not be ethically possible to make that available.
Can you think of anyplace to get a large, shareable ham sample apart from a
public mailing list?  Everyone's eager to share their spam, but spam is so
much alike in so many ways that's the easy half of the data collection
problem.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1513.4ee4b7db2ca10b3f5ec512d26bf8b3f9.eml000066400000000000000000000041741444326627400314710ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: skip@pobox.com
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 03:41:13 2002
From: skip@pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 21:41:13 -0500
Subject: [Spambayes] test sets?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <15735.50243.135743.32180@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>
        
Message-ID: <15736.5577.157228.229200@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>


    Tim> I gave it all the thought it deserved .  It would be
    Tim> wonderful to get several people cranking on the same test data, and
    Tim> I'm all in favor of that.  OTOH, my Data/ subtree currently has
    Tim> more than 35,000 files slobbering over 134 million bytes -- even if
    Tim> I had a place to put that much stuff, I'm not sure my ISP would let
    Tim> me email it in one msg .

Do you have a dialup or something more modern ?  134MB of messages
zipped would probably compress pretty well - under 50MB I'd guess with all
the similarity in the headers and such.  You could zip each of the 10 sets
individually and upload them somewhere.

    Tim> Can you think of anyplace to get a large, shareable ham sample
    Tim> apart from a public mailing list?  Everyone's eager to share their
    Tim> spam, but spam is so much alike in so many ways that's the easy
    Tim> half of the data collection problem.

How about random sampling lots of public mailing lists via gmane or
something similar, manually cleaning it (distributing that load over a
number of people) and then relying on your clever code and your rebalancing
script to help further cleanse it?  The "problem" with the ham is it tends
to be much more tied to one person (not just intimate, but unique) than the
spam.

I save all incoming email for ten days (gzipped mbox format) before it rolls
over and disappears.  At any one time I think I have about 8,000-10,000
messages.  Most of it isn't terribly personal (which I would cull before
passing along anyway) and much of it is machine-generated, so would be of
marginal use.  Finally, it's all ham-n-spam mixed together.  Do we call that
an omelette or a Denny's Grand Slam?

Skip
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1514.e01ad8fa7bcb36e969c838578051d684.eml000066400000000000000000000043101444326627400311360ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 07:09:11 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 02:09:11 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] all but one testing
In-Reply-To: <20020905224923.GA20480@glacier.arctrix.com>
Message-ID: 

[Tim]
> Another area for potentially fruitful study:  it's clear that the
> highest-value indicators usually appear "early" in msgs, and for spam
> there's an actual reason for that:  advertising has to strive
> to get your attention early.  So, for example, if we only bothered to
> tokenize the first 90% of a msg, would results get worse?

[Neil Schemenauer]
> Spammers could exploit this including a large MIME part at the beginning
> of the message.  In pratice that would probably work fine.

Note that timtest.py's current tokenizer only looks at decoded text/* MIME
sections (or raw message text if no MIME exists); spammers could put
megabytes of other crap before that and it wouldn't even be looked at
(except that the email package has to parse non-text/* parts well enough to
skip over them, and tokens for the most interesting parts of Content-{Type,
Disposition, Transfer-Encoding} decorations are generated for all MIME
sections).

Schemes that remain ignorant of MIME are vulnerable to spammers putting
arbitrary amounts of "nice text" in the preamble area (after the headers and
before the first MIME section), which most mail readers don't display, but
which appear first in the file so are latched on to by Graham's scoring
scheme.

But I don't worry about clever spammers -- I've seen no evidence that they
exist <0.5 wink>.  Even if they do, the Open Source zoo is such that no
particular scheme will gain dominance, and there's no percentage for
spammers in trying to fool just one scheme.  Even if they did, for the kind
of scheme we're using here they can't *know* what "nice text" is, not unless
they pay a lot of attention to the spam targets and highly tailor their
messages to each different one.  At that point they'd be doing targeted
marketing, and the cost of the game to them would increase enormously.

if-you're-out-to-make-a-quick-buck-you-don't-waste-a-second-on-hard-
    targets-ly y'rs  - tim

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1515.cbcae309928553721fdf49cdf98541db.eml000066400000000000000000000030321444326627400312720ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: anthony@interlink.com.au
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 08:59:38 2002
From: anthony@interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 17:59:38 +1000
Subject: [Spambayes] test sets?
Message-ID: <200209060759.g867xcV03853@localhost.localdomain>


I've got a test set here that's the last 3 and a bit years email to
info@ekit.com and info@ekno.com - it's a really ugly set of 20,000+
messages, currently broken into 7,000 spam, 9,000 ham, 9,000 currently
unclassified. These addresses are all over the 70-some different 
ekit/ekno/ISIConnect websites, so they get a LOT of spam.

As well as the usual spam, it also has customers complaining about 
credit card charges, it has people interested in the service and 
asking questions about long distance rates, &c &c &c. Lots and lots 
of "commercial" speech, in other words. Stuff that SA gets pretty 
badly wrong.

I'm currently mangling it by feeding all parts (text, html, whatever 
else :) into the filters, as well as both a selected number of headers 
(to, from, content-type, x-mailer), and also a list of 
(header,count_of_header). This is showing up some nice stuff - e.g. the 
X-uidl that stoopid spammers blindly copy into their messages.

I did have Received in there, but it's out for the moment, as it causes
rates to drop.

I'm also stripping out HTML tags, except for href="" and src="" - there's
so so much goodness in them (note that I'm only keeping the contents of
the attributes). 


--
Anthony Baxter     
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1516.d12eaa7e292c15107171b0eb39ea40df.eml000066400000000000000000000033361444326627400312350ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: anthony@interlink.com.au
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 09:06:57 2002
From: anthony@interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 18:06:57 +1000
Subject: [Spambayes] Re: [Python-Dev] Getting started with GBayes testing 
In-Reply-To:  
Message-ID: <200209060806.g8686ve03964@localhost.localdomain>


>>> Tim Peters wrote
> > I've actually got a bunch of spam like that. The text/plain is something
> > like
> >
> > **This is a HTML message**
> >
> > and nothing else.
> 
> Are you sure that's in a text/plain MIME section?  I've seen that many times
> myself, but it's always been in the prologue (*between* MIME sections -- so
> it's something a non-MIME aware reader will show you).

*nod* I know - on my todo is to feed the prologue into the system as well.

A snippet, hopefully not enough to trigger the spam-filters.


To: into89j@gin.elax.ekorp.com
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.1712.3
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Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007F_01BDF6C7.FABAC1
B0"
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This is a MIME Message

------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0080_01BDF6C7.
FABAC1B0"

------=_NextPart_001_0080_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

***** This is an HTML Message ! *****


------=_NextPart_001_0080_01BDF6C7.FABAC1B0
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


 
 
    

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1517.14cf0162b6bf5274305b7b573a0c3a82.eml000066400000000000000000000017401444326627400310160ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: anthony@interlink.com.au
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 09:11:50 2002
From: anthony@interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 18:11:50 +1000
Subject: [Spambayes] test sets? 
In-Reply-To: <200209060759.g867xcV03853@localhost.localdomain> 
Message-ID: <200209060811.g868Bo904031@localhost.localdomain>


>>> Anthony Baxter wrote
> I'm currently mangling it by feeding all parts (text, html, whatever 
> else :) into the filters, as well as both a selected number of headers 
> (to, from, content-type, x-mailer), and also a list of 
> (header,count_of_header). This is showing up some nice stuff - e.g. the 
> X-uidl that stoopid spammers blindly copy into their messages.

The other thing on my todo list (probably tonight's tram ride home) is
to add all headers from non-text parts of multipart messages. If nothing
else, it'll pick up most virus email real quick.



-- 
Anthony Baxter        
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1518.94c41662e1101b46c74bfb14b84b34c4.eml000066400000000000000000000055561444326627400310350ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: felicity@kluge.net  Mon Sep  2 23:15:26 2002
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Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 16:40:53 -0400
From: Theo Van Dinter 
To: Justin Mason 
Cc: Spamassassin Devel List 
Subject: Re: [SAdev] SpamAssassin v2.40 released (finally)!
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X-GPG-Fingerprint: 75B1 F6D0 8368 38E7 A4C5  F6C2 02E3 9051 E580 B363
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-11.4 required=7.0
	tests=AWL,IN_REP_TO,MULTIPART_SIGNED,PGP_SIGNATURE,REFERENCES,
	      SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT
	version=2.40-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 


--1sNVjLsmu1MXqwQ/
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Mon, Sep 02, 2002 at 06:53:24PM +0100, Justin Mason wrote:
>   - Razor v2 now supported fully

Hmmm...  I just upgraded from my modified 2.31 to a slightly modified 2.40
(I add a routine to EvalTests) and get:

Sep  2 15:32:24 eclectic spamd[20506]: razor2 check skipped: No such file o=
r directory Can't call method
"log" on unblessed reference at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.1/Razor2/Clien=
t/Agent.pm line 211, 
line 22.=20

I haven't quite figured out why yet, more to come.

--=20
Randomly Generated Tagline:
"So on one hand, honey is an amazingly sophisticated and efficient food
 source. On the other hand it's bee backwash."
             - Alton Brown, Good Eats, "Pantry Raid IV: Comb Alone"

--1sNVjLsmu1MXqwQ/
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
Content-Disposition: inline

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE9c8zVAuOQUeWAs2MRAm+8AKC24InxYaZY5BJi/u/FI2RQ5hy9jACgi9fM
4jujLQNmvwcQm/8ULtyvaZU=
=hKgW
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--1sNVjLsmu1MXqwQ/--

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1520.227b74e7890079e47c5c8890d64c1383.eml000066400000000000000000000070161444326627400306460ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Tue Sep  3 00:14:22 2002
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Received: from [195.137.34.213] by web10201.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP;
    Mon, 02 Sep 2002 22:58:33 BST
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Peter=20Dickson?= 
To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: [SAtalk] "Broken Pipe" on initial test
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	tests=FOR_FREE,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,
	      YAHOO_MSGID_ADDED
	version=2.41-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Hi

I've just installed SpamAssassin and relevant modules.
Just tried the initial test: 

spamassassin -t < sample-nonspam.txt > nonspam.out

and got back:

Broken Pipe

I've also tried using the -P and --pipe option but to
no avail.

Any help greatly appreciated. BTW - I'm no great Perl
expert!

rgds

Peter

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1521.692de69e480a819f6d32578f93fca74b.eml000066400000000000000000000105021444326627400311470ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Tue Sep  3 00:14:54 2002
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    g82M0JJ08146; Mon, 2 Sep 2002 15:00:19 -0700
From: Bart Schaefer 
To: Richard Kimber 
Cc: spamassassin 
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] SpamAssassin v2.40 released (finally)!
In-Reply-To: <20020902220216.51777fd2.rkimber@ntlworld.com>
Message-Id: 
Mail-Followup-To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
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	tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,FOR_FREE,IN_REP_TO,
	      KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_05_08,
	      USER_AGENT_PINE
	version=2.41-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Richard Kimber wrote:

> On Mon, 2 Sep 2002 13:20:46 -0700 (PDT)
> Bart Schaefer  wrote:
> 
> > If you're using "fetchmail --mda spamassassin" or the equivlent, then
> > this change means your current setup will no longer work. 
> 
> Oh well, I guess there are other anti-spam options out there.

Well, (a) you don't HAVE to upgrade, and (b) what you are doing has never
been safe in the first place because SpamAssassin 2.31-and-before doesn't
do any kind of file locking while it writes to the mailbox and doesn't
promise to return the proper failure code on disk-full conditions, etc.

If you're still willing to live with (b), all you need is a little shell
script to run spamassassin:

----------
#!/bin/sh
# call this file "spamassassin-wrapper" and chmod +x it
{
echo "From $1 `date`"
sed -e '1{/^From /d;}' | spamassassin
echo ''
} >> $MAIL
----------

And then use

fetchmail --mda 'spamassassin-wrapper %F'

and you should be all set.



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1522.3f4e272c9d12eb60b890f0dd065e650b.eml000066400000000000000000000071441444326627400311740ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-commits-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Tue Sep  3 00:14:56 2002
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    -0700
To: spamassassin-commits@example.sourceforge.net
Message-Id: 
From: Justin Mason 
Subject: [SACVS] CVS: spamassassin/masses/tenpass - New directory
Sender: spamassassin-commits-admin@example.sourceforge.net
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	tests=AWL,FOR_FREE,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03
	version=2.41-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Update of /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/masses/tenpass
In directory usw-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv26829/tenpass

Log Message:
Directory /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/masses/tenpass added to the repository




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1523.59e3f881f7536e0a90d98797f6c509e3.eml000066400000000000000000000076351444326627400310370ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Tue Sep  3 00:14:24 2002
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To: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
X-Bugzilla-Reason: AssignedTo
Message-Id: <20020902215847.1ACB89F8B5@belphegore.hughes-family.org>
Subject: [SAdev] [Bug 804] Razor debugging isn't functioning
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	tests=AWL,BUGZILLA_BUG,FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,FOR_FREE,
	      FUDGE_MULTIHOP_RELAY,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,NO_REAL_NAME,
	      RCVD_IN_MULTIHOP_DSBL,RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,
	      SPAM_PHRASE_03_05
	version=2.41-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

http://www.hughes-family.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=804

jm@jmason.org changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|NEW                         |RESOLVED
         Resolution|                            |FIXED



------- Additional Comments From jm@jmason.org  2002-09-02 14:58 -------
ok, now in.



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1524.d18213f1cf68518e719dccd3717e4255.eml000066400000000000000000000073621444326627400310570ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Tue Sep  3 00:15:26 2002
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	tests=AWL,BUGZILLA_BUG,FOR_FREE,FUDGE_MULTIHOP_RELAY,
	      KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,NO_REAL_NAME,RCVD_IN_MULTIHOP_DSBL,
	      RCVD_IN_UNCONFIRMED_DSBL,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05
	version=2.41-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

http://www.hughes-family.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=805





------- Additional Comments From felicity@kluge.net  2002-09-02 15:05 -------
from the sa-dev mailing list:

"ln -s /dev/null ~root/.razor/razor-agent.log"
  
The question is, why does 2.40 do this whereas my 2.31 doesn't. Hmmm.




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Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2002 19:06:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Steven W. Orr" 
To: Justin Mason 
Cc: spamassassin talk ,
	
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] SpamAssassin v2.40 released (finally)!
In-Reply-To: <20020902175329.E20EC43F99@phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com>
Message-Id: 
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Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
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	tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE,
	      SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINE,X_AUTH_WARNING
	version=2.41-cvs
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On Mon, 2 Sep 2002, Justin Mason wrote:

=>http://spamassassin.org/released/ :
=>
=>  508284 Sep  2 18:27 Mail-SpamAssassin-2.40.tar.gz
=>  561425 Sep  2 18:27 Mail-SpamAssassin-2.40.zip
=>
Not that I'm not grateful, but..... :-)

I'd really like to install from a src rpm. Any takers? :-)

TIA

-- 
-Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like a banana. Stranger things have -
-happened but none stranger than this. Does your driver's license say Organ
-Donor?Black holes are where God divided by zero. Listen to me! We are all-
-individuals! What if this weren't a hypothetical question? steveo@syslang.net


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1526.084c29eaad19c537fc8dce129ec30744.eml000066400000000000000000000050371444326627400312700ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: jm@jmason.org  Tue Sep  3 14:38:29 2002
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To: "Craig R.Hughes" 
Cc: quinlan@pathname.com, yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason),
	spamassassin-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAdev] 2.41 release? 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Craig R.Hughes"  
   of "Mon, 02 Sep 2002 22:37:10 PDT." <312D1C89-BEFF-11D6-9DD0-00039396ECF2@deersoft.com> 
From: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
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X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
X-Habeas-Swe-2: brightly anticipated
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X-Habeas-Swe-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this
X-Habeas-Swe-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas
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	      SPAM_PHRASE_02_03
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"Craig R.Hughes" said:

> Seems like a good idea.  We might get one of two other issues 
> raised tomorrow too once US people get back to work tomorrow and 
> start downloading 2.40 in earnest.

yep, I reckon that's likely.

BTW I'm hearing reports about problems resolving spamassassin.org.
Anyone else noticing this?  if it's serious I'll see if I can get
Mark Reynolds to add a 2ndary in the US, to go with the primaries
in Oz.

> >    - looks like there may be a razor2 issue

I think this is a Razor bug/glitch triggered when file permissions
don't allow its own log system to work.  At least that's the report
I heard on the Razor list in the past...

Theo, does it work now that you /dev/null'd the logfile?

> >    - version number (says "cvs")
> >    - tag tree as "Rel" this time too

I won't bother tagging with Rel, IMO; I don't think we should
rely on the version control system inside our code, so I've just
put a line in Mail/SpamAssassin.pm instead.   I will of course
tag with a release *label* though.

--j.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1527.3fc7d5b03f0c34d1f51a55a0e10b8026.eml000066400000000000000000000116621444326627400311540ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Wed Sep  4 16:52:50 2002
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To: "zeek" 
Cc: "SA" ,
	craig@hughes-family.org
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] BUG: spamd --allowed-ips=[127.0.0.1 must be first]
In-Reply-To: Message from
    "zeek"
     of
    "Tue, 03 Sep 2002 18:41:49 EDT."
    
From: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
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"zeek" said:

> This was thoroughly confusing, but by playing musical chairs with the spamd
> args I smashed a bug:
> 
> OK:
> spamd --debug --daemonize --auto-whitelist --username=nobody --allowed-ips=1
> 27.0.0.1"
> OK:
> spamd --debug --daemonize --auto-whitelist --username=nobody --allowed-ips=1
> 27.0.0.1, 192.168.1.1"
> NOT OK:
> spamd --debug --daemonize --auto-whitelist --username=nobody --allowed-ips=1
> 92.168.1.1, 127.0.0.1"

fwiw, I can't reproduce this with

  spamd --debug --auto-whitelist --allowed-ips="127.0.0.1"
  spamd --debug --auto-whitelist --allowed-ips="127.0.0.1, 192.168.1.1"
  spamd --debug --auto-whitelist --allowed-ips="192.168.1.1, 127.0.0.1"

which I presume is what you meant (except for the missing args
of course).  They all seem to work OK.

--j.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1528.e2fa148e32e3c975b3afff6959c2ab6b.eml000066400000000000000000000111271444326627400314350ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Wed Sep  4 16:53:10 2002
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From: "Adrian Hill" 
Lines: 25
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    <20020904185631.55728f6b.lars@unet.net.ph>
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Subject: [SAtalk] Re: Custom actions for high scoring spam
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	      INVALID_MSGID,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,PRIORITY_NO_NAME,
	      QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_08_13
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Thank you Lars for your reply to my query.

> SA doesnt do any of these. It is probably a function of whatever scanning
system/MDA
> you're using (amavis, procmail, whatever). What exactly are you using?

I am using SpamAssassin as part of the MailScanner package (using sendmail
as the MTA). It integrates nicely in there, and shares a configuration file
with SA. All very neat.

> SA in itself does nothing really. You need a frontend (procmail, amavis,
etc)
> at some point in the  mail delivery chain that can hand over the message
> to SA and do whatever other processing you want.

I thought that SA rated a message with a certain score, then did a certain
action (such as store | deliver | delete) based on the configuration given.
I was hoping there were some other actions that I could custom-program in.

Again, many thanks,


Adrian






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To: spamassassin-commits@example.sourceforge.net
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From: Justin Mason 
Subject: [SACVS] CVS: spamassassin/lib/Mail/SpamAssassin Conf.pm,1.91.2.7,1.91.2.8
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Update of /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/lib/Mail/SpamAssassin
In directory usw-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv17809/lib/Mail/SpamAssassin

Modified Files:
      Tag: b2_4_0
	Conf.pm 
Log Message:
added deprecation regarding starting line with space; reserved for future use; also changed sample version_tag

Index: Conf.pm
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/lib/Mail/SpamAssassin/Conf.pm,v
retrieving revision 1.91.2.7
retrieving revision 1.91.2.8
diff -b -w -u -d -r1.91.2.7 -r1.91.2.8
--- Conf.pm	29 Aug 2002 14:52:43 -0000	1.91.2.7
+++ Conf.pm	4 Sep 2002 15:22:39 -0000	1.91.2.8
@@ -24,8 +24,11 @@
 files, loaded from the /usr/share/spamassassin and /etc/mail/spamassassin
 directories.
 
-The C<#> character starts a comment, which continues until end of line,
-and whitespace in the files is not significant.
+The C<#> character starts a comment, which continues until end of line.
+
+Whitespace in the files is not significant, but please note that starting a
+line with whitespace is deprecated, as we reserve its use for multi-line rule
+definitions, at some point in the future.
 
 Paths can use C<~> to refer to the user's home directory.
 
@@ -257,7 +260,7 @@
 
 eg.
 
-  version_tag perkel2    # version=2.40-perkel2
+  version_tag myrules1    # version=2.41-myrules1
 
 =cut
 



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1531.fe3474ea8fb4195ac74e644161f47c76.eml000066400000000000000000000125131444326627400311360ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep  5 12:39:32 2002
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From: "Malte S. Stretz" 
To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] PerMsgStatus.pm error?
User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3
References: 
In-Reply-To: 
X-Spam-Checker: SpamAssassin 
X-Accept-Language: de, en
X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
X-Habeas-Swe-2: brightly anticipated
X-Habeas-Swe-3: like Habeas SWE (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm)
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X-Original-Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 13:18:24 +0200
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 13:18:24 +0200
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-11.6 required=7.0
	tests=AWL,FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,FOR_FREE,HABEAS_SWE,IN_REP_TO,
	      KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,
	      SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,USER_AGENT,
	      USER_AGENT_KMAIL,X_ACCEPT_LANG
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

On Thursday 05 September 2002 04:10 CET Mike Burger wrote:
> Just loaded up SA 2.40 from Theo's RPMs...spamassassin-2.40-1 and
> perl-Mail-SpamAssassin-2.40-1 on a RH 7.1 system with perl 5.6.1 running
> on it.
>
> I'm getting messages that seem to indicate that SA can't find
> PerMsgStatus, like so:
>
> Sep  4 21:01:59 burgers spamd[17579]: Failed to run CTYPE_JUST_HTML
> SpamAssassin test, skipping: ^I(Can't locate object method
> "check_for_content_type_just_html" via package
> "Mail::SpamAssassin::PerMsgStatus" (perhaps you forgot to load
> "Mail::SpamAssassin::PerMsgStatus"?) at
> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.1/Mail/SpamAssassin/PerMsgStatus.pm line
> 1814,  line 21. )
>
>[...]
>
> Any ideas?

Perl doesn't complain that it can't find PerMsgStatus.pm but the function 
check_for_content_type_just_html(). Do you probably have some old rules 
files still lurking around? This test existed in 2.31 but is gone/was 
renamed with 2.40.

Malte

-- 
-- Coding is art.
-- 




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1532.7629e5bf068e857d0149f49caf32df6f.eml000066400000000000000000000070661444326627400312400ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep  5 12:39:38 2002
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From: Larry Rosenman 
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X-Spam-Level: 

I'm getting an error page from sourceforge.net when I try to go to
www.spamassassin.org. 

Just FYI. 


-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 972-414-9812                 E-Mail: ler@lerctr.org
US Mail: 1905 Steamboat Springs Drive, Garland, TX 75044-6749



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1533.cdca6023330291efad8880619bc3c68e.eml000066400000000000000000000112341444326627400311740ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep  5 12:51:01 2002
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To: "Clark C . Evans" 
Cc: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] getting single-user spam assassin to work in FreeBSD
    default install
In-Reply-To: Message from
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     of
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    <20020905023019.A43636@doublegemini.com>
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"Clark C . Evans" said:

> Hello.  I'm hosted on a FreeBSD box where I can't modify the
> local Perl installation.  I downloaded and installed procmail
> in my home directory, and now I'm trying to get spamassassin to work...
> 
> bash-2.05$ perl Makefile.PL PREFIX=/home/cce SYSCONFDIF=/home/cce/etc
> Warning: prerequisite HTML::Parser 0 not found at (eval 1) line 219.
> Warning: prerequisite Pod::Usage 0 not found at (eval 1) line 219.
> 'SYSCONFDIF' is not a known MakeMaker parameter name.

SYSCONFDIR.

--j.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1534.9422e1b77d4239d246fc1d8a79d62d07.eml000066400000000000000000000122411444326627400310510ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep  5 12:50:54 2002
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To: "Kerry Nice" 
Cc: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Trend: Spam disguised as newsletters
In-Reply-To: Message from
    "Kerry Nice"
     of
    "Wed, 04 Sep 2002 18:25:44 EDT."
    
From: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
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"Kerry Nice" said:

> What about some reality check rules.  Yeah, you can pack in lots of things
> into the header to try and get some negative points, but do they all make
> sense in combination.  Can you have a Pine message id in the same header
> with an Outlook Express one or a Mutt User-Agent?

Yes, this is a big bonus of meta rules (new in 2.40); we can now
e.g. check for an Outlook-style forwarded message, and not give
it negative points unless it contains other signs of being from
Outlook.

> I think the headers should be paid special attention to.  The message
> content of something from the NY Times or Lockergnome might look spammy, but
> usually they don't forge or fake anything in the header.  Tone down the
> negative scores and ding them extra for any obvious forgeries.

When we get more (good) "nice" tests, the GA will assign lower
scores to them.  I think the current problem is that there are
very few really good nice tests in the current rulebase, and lots
of +ve tests that those newsletters hit, giving the GA a big
problem to solve.

--j.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1535.92d5d08b41907f13b4553115c772506b.eml000066400000000000000000000107571444326627400306240ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep  5 12:51:15 2002
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To: SpamAssassin 
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] My SA went crazy.
In-Reply-To: Message from Jesus Climent  of
    "Thu, 05 Sep 2002 08:08:35 +0200."
    <20020905060834.GA20869@reypastor.hispalinux.es>
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Jesus Climent said:

> d output: Bareword found where operator expected at (eval 11) line 95,
> near "25FREEMEGS_URL_uri_test"  (Missing operator before
> FREEMEGS_URL_uri_test?) Bareword found whe

> Is that a bug or is a fault in my system?

looks like there's an out-of-date copy of the rules files, on your system.
that rules is called "FREEMEGS_URL" nowadays.

--j.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1536.9f465603a58bf6390c7edbfb78f2b62f.eml000066400000000000000000000112061444326627400313030ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep  5 12:51:27 2002
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From: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
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Subject: [SAtalk] Thought for RPM/deb/etc packagers
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BTW, I've been thinking a little about the RPMs and other packages.
Already the PLD guys are distributing 3 rpms:

  - perl-Mail-SpamAssassin

          the perl modules.

  - spamassassin

          the "spamassassin" and "spamd" scripts,
          spamd rc-file etc.

  - spamassassin-tools

          mass-check, masses directory stuff, etc.
          for generating rescore data from corpora.

This seems like a good way to do it; this way, stuff which just needs
the perl modules doesn't need to require the full RPM be installed,
with RC files in init.d etc.

It's been adopted in the distributed .spec file, anyway.

Theo, BTW, what's the eval test you add in the tvd version of the RPM?

--j.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1537.61e8d9ec6d8fe200987abca9969c2afb.eml000066400000000000000000000115521444326627400314530ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep  5 13:39:28 2002
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From: Mike Burger 
To: "Malte S. Stretz" 
Cc: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] PerMsgStatus.pm error?
In-Reply-To: <200209051318.24194@malte.stretz.eu.org>
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Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 07:33:15 -0500 (EST)
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	tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,FOR_FREE,IN_REP_TO,
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It's possible...I performed the update via "rpm -U"...which, of course, 
created all the new rulesets as "xx_rulename.cf.rpmnew"  Crud.  I'll have 
to start moving things around.

On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Malte S. Stretz wrote:

> On Thursday 05 September 2002 04:10 CET Mike Burger wrote:
> > Just loaded up SA 2.40 from Theo's RPMs...spamassassin-2.40-1 and
> > perl-Mail-SpamAssassin-2.40-1 on a RH 7.1 system with perl 5.6.1 running
> > on it.
> >
> > I'm getting messages that seem to indicate that SA can't find
> > PerMsgStatus, like so:
> >
> > Sep  4 21:01:59 burgers spamd[17579]: Failed to run CTYPE_JUST_HTML
> > SpamAssassin test, skipping: ^I(Can't locate object method
> > "check_for_content_type_just_html" via package
> > "Mail::SpamAssassin::PerMsgStatus" (perhaps you forgot to load
> > "Mail::SpamAssassin::PerMsgStatus"?) at
> > /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.1/Mail/SpamAssassin/PerMsgStatus.pm line
> > 1814,  line 21. )
> >
> >[...]
> >
> > Any ideas?
> 
> Perl doesn't complain that it can't find PerMsgStatus.pm but the function 
> check_for_content_type_just_html(). Do you probably have some old rules 
> files still lurking around? This test existed in 2.31 but is gone/was 
> renamed with 2.40.
> 
> Malte
> 
> 



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1538.a7f206a53de6097efc0cd3165202e406.eml000066400000000000000000000073311444326627400311130ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Sep  6 15:29:38 2002
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I finally found the SpamAssassin ninja's!  After months of searchng.. I
found the litte guys at a bowling alley in Valencia!  Here's a shot of my
beloved clan!

http://www.mattahfahtu.com/






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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1539.3492ab4db8fc4cb31731e0eafcee6839.eml000066400000000000000000000075401444326627400314310ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Sep  6 15:29:56 2002
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To: "SpamAssassin Users' list" 
References: <00c201c254ff$bc2acb30$8801020a@brianmay>
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] [OT] SpamAssassin figures...
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sorry for the dupe.. thought the com address would bounce.. my bad.



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1540.e6859a3f2b7d4347f84df81b2398ae58.eml000066400000000000000000000116521444326627400311540ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Sep  6 19:36:54 2002
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X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-16.3 required=7.0
	tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,FOR_FREE,IN_REP_TO,
	      KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,PGP_SIGNATURE_2,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,
	      REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_MUTT
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 


--UHN/qo2QbUvPLonB
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On Fri, Sep 06, 2002 at 11:32:01AM -0500, Josh Hildebrand wrote:
> Unfortunately, when I run that, it complains about the H parameter.
>=20
>   -F 0|1          remove/add 'From ' line at start of output (default: 1)
>=20
> But I can run it on the command line as "spamd -d -c -a -H" just fine.
>=20
> Anyone else run into this problem?

you look to have 2 versions of spamd installed.  The one running from
the RC script is pre-2.4 (there is a -H now, and -F has been removed),
but the one you run from the commandline seems to be a 2.4x version.

I would find that old version of SA and blow it away.

--=20
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"If you lend someone $20, and never see that person again, it was probably
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Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE9eOvDAuOQUeWAs2MRAmQQAKDvRrfV2FasxShCaSQCCdfbvx4mbQCeK3Eq
IXNsRLjK0elfi5oPbnQedEI=
=woQJ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1541.1c5cac401a046fc68ba4594692631a41.eml000066400000000000000000000105141444326627400310160ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Sep  6 19:37:06 2002
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From: Stephane Lentz 
To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Lotus Notes users?
Message-Id: <20020906180419.GA14739@iww.netfr.alcatel.fr>
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On Fri, Sep 06, 2002 at 06:22:52PM +0100, Matt Sergeant wrote:
> Can anyone out there who uses SA with lotus notes users help us figure 
> out what to tell customers to do when they've got emails coming in with 
> spam identifying headers? We've been told that Notes has no way to 
> handle extra headers, but I'm sure that can't be universally true.
> 
> I've searched the 'net, and it seems that Notes can only filter based on 
> the "visible" headers, i.e. sender, subject, precedence, etc. Is there 
> any way to filter based on X- headers?

=> Yes the only way out with Notes looks like changing the subject 
(subject_tag). 

Regards, 

SL/
---
Stephane Lentz / Alcanet International - Internet Services


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1542.a5fda7c1725c3f9715d2b0c858ad306e.eml000066400000000000000000000114641444326627400312620ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Sep  6 19:36:59 2002
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From: Theo Van Dinter 
To: bugzilla-daemon@hughes-family.org
Cc: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAdev] [Bug 840] spam_level_char option change/removal
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On Fri, Sep 06, 2002 at 10:09:19AM -0700, bugzilla-daemon@hughes-family.org=
 wrote:
> another (or would look terrible).  Let's just use a letter.  If
> aesthetics are your concern, I think an "x" will look just fine.

"x" is fine, but let's not take out the config option.  if people really
want to have it be something else, we shouldn't hinder them.

--=20
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 19.05 via NFS from a remote Linux machine in Paraguay doesn't seem to
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http://www.hughes-family.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=840





------- Additional Comments From felicity@kluge.net  2002-09-06 10:56 -------
Subject: Re: [SAdev]  spam_level_char option change/removal

On Fri, Sep 06, 2002 at 10:09:19AM -0700, bugzilla-daemon@hughes-family.org wrote:
> another (or would look terrible).  Let's just use a letter.  If
> aesthetics are your concern, I think an "x" will look just fine.

"x" is fine, but let's not take out the config option.  if people really
want to have it be something else, we shouldn't hinder them.





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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1544.011827fa2f89828e83bae7f6995576df.eml000066400000000000000000000137201444326627400311050ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Sun Sep  8 23:57:37 2002
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15"
From: "Malte S. Stretz" 
To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Lotus Notes users?
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References: 
    
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On Saturday 07 September 2002 23:22 CET Daniel Quinlan wrote:
> Craig Hughes  writes:
> > How about configuring SA to set precendence to "low" for spam
> > messages, then filter on that -- no real human I've ever seen has
> > actually set precendence to low on real mail.
>
> Assuming there isn't a better way for Lotus Notes users, we could
> create a "Precedence: spam" convention.  The only two Precedence:
> headers I've seen (aside from one or two odd messages) are "bulk" and
> "list".  Adding a "spam" header makes sense given the convention.

I'd suggest using Precedence: junk. Albeit it's no standard header does most 
Software already recognize it. Courier eg. doesn't send auto-replies to 
mails with the Precedence bulk or junk. I think Outlook does handle these 
special, too. [1] says:
| Autoresponses should always contain the header
|          Precedence: junk
| Notice the spelling of "prec-e-dence". In particular, count the number of
| n:s (and a:s and s:es, if you're totally agraphic and/or from the United
| States). This will prevent well-tempered mail programs from generating
| bounce messages for these. If the recipient can't be reached, the
| autoresponder message is simply discarded. 
| [...]
| (For what it's worth, the meaning of the Precedence header in practice is
| that it affects Sendmail so that messages identified as less important get
| moved back in the queue under high load. [...])

>[...]

Malte

[1] Moronic Mail Autoresponders (A FAQ From Hell):
http://www.ling.helsinki.fi/users/reriksso/mail/autoresponder-faq.html
-- 
--- Coding is art.
-- 




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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15"
Organization: Paradigm-Omega, LLC
To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1]
X-PGP-Key-1: 8828 DA31 F788 2F87 CE6D  F563 5568 BABC 647E C336
X-PGP-Key_2: D152 7DD6 C0E8 F2CB 4CD3  B5D7 5F67 B017 38D0 A14E
X-Copyright: 2002
X-Owner: Paradigm-Omega,LLC(tm)
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X-Classification: Confidential/Proprietary
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
From: Robin Lynn Frank 
Message-Id: <1031493547.12768.TMDA@omega.paradigm-omega.net>
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X-Identifier: Robin Lynn Frank 
Reply-To: Robin Lynn Frank 
Subject: [SAtalk] spamd can't find...
Sender: spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net
Errors-To: spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net
X-Beenthere: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
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Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 06:59:04 -0700
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	tests=FOR_FREE,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,NOSPAM_INC,
	      RCVD_IN_OSIRUSOFT_COM,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03,X_OSIRU_DUL
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

I thought I'd installed razor correctly, but I am seeing the following in my 
logs.  Can anyone give me a hitn?

Sep  8 06:46:45 omega spamd[6514]: razor2 check skipped: No such file or 
directory Can't locate object method "new" via package "Net::DNS::Resolver" 
(perhaps you forgot to load "Net::DNS::Resolver"?) at (eval 31) line 1, 
 line 114. ^I...propagated at 
/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.1/Mail/SpamAssassin/Dns.pm line 392,  
line 114.

-- 
Robin Lynn Frank
Paradigm-Omega, LLC
==================================
The only certainty about documentation is that
whoever wrote it "might" have understood it.
The rest of us may not be so lucky.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1546.2bf79dda9e1450d2be84ab65f5c3ca6d.eml000066400000000000000000000106311444326627400315030ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Mon Sep  9 10:50:49 2002
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	tests=AWL,FOR_FREE,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,NOSPAM_INC,
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	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Despite my lack of confidence to upgrade to 2.41 using the tarball instead of 
cpan, it worked.  With the help of others, got razor working.  I did however 
notice something in my logs which happened twice but hasn't recurred.

Sep  8 16:10:11 omega spamd[14014]: razor2 check skipped: Permission denied 
Can't call method "log" on unblessed reference at 
/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.1/Razor2/Client/Agent.pm line 211,  line 
66.


-- 
Robin Lynn Frank
Paradigm-Omega, LLC
==================================
The only certainty about documentation is that
whoever wrote it "might" have understood it.
The rest of us may not be so lucky.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1547.5a820118fa0555c1c9735e3f2cde4b7f.eml000066400000000000000000000116251444326627400312050ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Mon Sep  9 14:35:56 2002
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
From: "Malte S. Stretz" 
To: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAdev] Re: [SACVS] CVS: spamassassin/rules 60_whitelist.cf,1.29,1.30
User-Agent: KMail/1.4.3
References: 
    <200209091108.22690@malte.stretz.eu.org>
    <3D7C6642.4040100@startechgroup.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <3D7C6642.4040100@startechgroup.co.uk>
X-Spam-Checker: SpamAssassin 
X-Accept-Language: de, en
X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
X-Habeas-Swe-2: brightly anticipated
X-Habeas-Swe-3: like Habeas SWE (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm)
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X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-13.1 required=7.0
	tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,FOR_FREE,
	      HABEAS_SWE,IN_REP_TO,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,
	      REFERENCES,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03,
	      USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_KMAIL,X_ACCEPT_LANG
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

On Monday 09 September 2002 11:13 CET Matt Sergeant wrote:
> Malte S. Stretz wrote:
> >[...]
> > So I'd vote for a complete removal of 60_whitelists.cf and a page
> > http://spamassassin.org/tests/whitelists.html where we list common
> > whitelist entries instead.
>
> I would happily agree to that.
>
> Though maybe it should be a wiki... ;-)

Just imagine what Ronnie Scelson would do to a wiki *shudder*

M
-- 
--- Coding is art.
-- 




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1548.009504211e34b42d8b878b5c5aec5926.eml000066400000000000000000000073161444326627400307670ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Tue Sep 10 18:18:33 2002
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http://www.hughes-family.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=486





------- Additional Comments From larry@5points.net  2002-09-10 08:45 -------
Dan,

To answer your question to my post (which maybe should be a seperate bug?) I'm 
using Spamassassin version 2.30



------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
You are the assignee for the bug, or are watching the assignee.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1549.929f73150d87a253b519a286d3dab77e.eml000066400000000000000000000067251444326627400310710ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Wed Sep 11 16:05:26 2002
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Subject: Re: [SAtalk] base64 decode problem?
In-Reply-To: <20020911000343.C18217@alinoe.com>
References: <20020911000343.C18217@alinoe.com>
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	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

>>>>> "CW" == Carlo Wood  writes:

CW> to manually decode the base64 part.
CW> Can someone please tell me how to do that?


google: base64 decode

the first three results look useful.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1550.bf1bd1651e108ceb8637a006d6861789.eml000066400000000000000000000102551444326627400310430ustar00rootroot00000000000000Replied: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 19:46:42 +0100
Replied: "Malte S. Stretz" 
Replied: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
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To: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAdev] 2.42 to come ?
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References: <20020911141938.CF8BE16F19@example.com>
In-Reply-To: <20020911141938.CF8BE16F19@example.com>
Cc: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
X-Spam-Checker: SpamAssassin 
X-Accept-Language: de, en
X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
X-Habeas-Swe-2: brightly anticipated
X-Habeas-Swe-3: like Habeas SWE (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this
X-Habeas-Swe-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas
X-Habeas-Swe-7: Warrant Mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant
X-Habeas-Swe-8: Message (HCM) and not spam. Please report use of this
X-Habeas-Swe-9: mark in spam to .
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Message-Id: <200209111726.19845@malte.stretz.eu.org>
X-Sender: 520061089980-0001@t-dialin.net
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-12.5 required=7.0
	tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,HABEAS_SWE,
	      IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,
	      SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT,
	      USER_AGENT_KMAIL,X_ACCEPT_LANG
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

On Wednesday 11 September 2002 16:19 CET Justin Mason wrote:
> Malte S. Stretz said:
>[...]
> > I think we should even add new (GA'd) rules to 2.4x (and/or remove old
> > ones) and tag a new 2.50 only if we have a bunch of features worth a
> > "dangerous" big update. I'd say: Yes, you should expect 2.42 and also
> > 2.43+ (but update to 2.41 now).
>
> I would think adding new rules to, or removing broken rules from, 2.4x
> would require some discussion first.  but new GA'd scores are definitely
> worth putting in, as the ones there are too wild.

I think my mail wasn't very clear ;-) My point was that we should continue 
releasing new rules and removing broken ones (all based on discussions on 
this list of course) in the 2.4 branch instead of creating a new 2.5 branch 
everytime we have a bunch of new rules.

A new branch should be openend only if (big) new features are introduced 
(eg. Bayes) or the interface has changed (spam_level_char=x). As the rules 
are under fluent development, the user has to update quite regularly. But 
currently he couldn't be shure if the new release will break anything in 
his setup (like -F going away). So if we say "the branches are stable to 
the outside and just improved under the surface but you have to watch out 
when you update to a new minor version number", users and sysadmins could 
be less reluctant to update.

All just IMHO :o)
Malte

P.S.: I'll be away from my box and my mail account for one week, starting 
tomorrow. So happy coding for the next week :-)

-- 
--- Coding is art.
-- 



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1551.8d00d37ef39bf157ccbc2eeeea811ece.eml000066400000000000000000000134211444326627400316350ustar00rootroot00000000000000Replied: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 20:04:55 +0100
Replied: cjclark@alum.mit.edu
Replied: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Wed Sep 11 19:43:23 2002
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From: "Crist J. Clark" 
To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
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X-Url: http://people.freebsd.org/~cjc/
Subject: [SAtalk] Reject, Blackhole, or Fake No-User?
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X-Original-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:36:18 -0700
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:36:18 -0700
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-7.3 required=7.0
	tests=FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,
	      SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_MUTT,X_AUTH_WARNING
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

This is not directly SpamAssassin related, but more of a general
dealing-with-SPAM issue.

What is the best way to deal with SPAM during the SMTP transaction?
There are domains and addresses that I know are SPAM at the 'MAIL
FROM' and can deal with at the SMTP level. I have been, and I think
most people, respond with a 5.7.1 code, a "permanent" error. That
pretty much means, "Don't bother to try from that address again,
you'll get the same error." People often add cathartic messages to
accompany the 550 like, "Spammers must die."

But this might not be the best way to go. You are telling the spammers
that you are on to them. This may cause them to try other methods to
get around your blocks. Is it perhaps better to blackhole the mail?
That is, act like everything is OK during the SMTP transaction, but
then just drop the mail into the bitbucket. (This is generally how
SpamAssassin works since almost everyone uses it after the SMTP
transaction has completed successfully.) Spammer thinks everything is
going fine and has no reason to try new methods.

Then there is a third possibility. Instead of returning a 550 code
indicating you're on to the spammer, fake a 5.1.1 response which is
saying "mailbox does not exist." This would be in the hopes that some
spammers out there actually remove names reported as non-existent from
their lists. I know, a slim hope, but even if only a few do, it can
lower the incidence.

So, what are the arguments for each? Do spammers even look at _any_ of
the bounce messages they get? The volume of bounces must be
huge. Personally, I'm starting to think blackholes are the way to
go... But sending back that "Spammer die, die, die," or stock "Access
DEE-NIED!" (my ephasis added) message can be pretty satisfying. ;)
-- 
Crist J. Clark                     |     cjclark@alum.mit.edu
                                   |     cjclark@jhu.edu
http://people.freebsd.org/~cjc/    |     cjc@freebsd.org


-------------------------------------------------------
In remembrance
www.osdn.com/911/
_______________________________________________
Spamassassin-talk mailing list
Spamassassin-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/spamassassin-talk


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1552.397ac9c4693e0e39de3c115fe7ded51f.eml000066400000000000000000000105271444326627400313630ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Wed Sep 11 21:52:21 2002
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Received: from localhost (jalapeno [127.0.0.1])
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    with ESMTP id 63077F7B1; Wed, 11 Sep 2002 21:38:45 +0100 (IST)
To: Robert Strickler 
Cc: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Yeah right... If spamassassin was looking through th
    is mail, it would have marked it as spam.
In-Reply-To: Message from Robert Strickler 
    of
    "Wed, 11 Sep 2002 15:10:49 CDT."
    <0FCA00EE04CDD3119C910050041FBA703A67F3@ilpostoffice.main.net56.net>
From: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
X-GPG-Key-Fingerprint: 0A48 2D8B 0B52 A87D 0E8A  6ADD 4137 1B50 6E58 EF0A
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X-Habeas-Swe-2: brightly anticipated
X-Habeas-Swe-3: like Habeas SWE (tm)
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X-Habeas-Swe-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas
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X-Habeas-Swe-9: mark in spam to .
Message-Id: <20020911203845.662ED16F03@example.com>
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Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 21:38:40 +0100
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-7.5 required=7.0
	tests=AWL,HABEAS_SWE,IN_REP_TO,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,
	      SPAM_PHRASE_00_01
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 


Robert Strickler said:

> Looks like we need an identity stamp in the X-Spam headers so that SA only
> accepts headers from authorized sources.

Well, SpamAssassin will just ignore any old X-Spam-whatever headers
it finds, so that cannot be used to get around the filter.

--j.


-------------------------------------------------------
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www.osdn.com/911/
_______________________________________________
Spamassassin-talk mailing list
Spamassassin-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/spamassassin-talk


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1553.057f1ee3da7c975523f475fc0c4fae71.eml000066400000000000000000000075411444326627400312760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Wed Sep 11 21:52:27 2002
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From: David Raistrick 
To: Stephane Lentz 
Cc: SpamAssassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Re: [SAdev] File::Spec and v2.41
In-Reply-To: <20020911201747.GA25880@iww.netfr.alcatel.fr>
Message-Id: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
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	tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,
	      QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINE
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Stephane Lentz wrote:

> => I faced a similar problem with the FreeBSD when trying to 
> install SpamAssassin through the ports on my fresh FreeBSD 4.6.2. 
> I had to define PERL5LIB with some given order of directories
> so that the latest File::Spec module get used. 

Good to hear it's not just me.  Mind telling me how you set PERL5LIB
specificly? I've tried a few things (setenv in the shell, as well as
$PERL5LIB == ...inside the Makefile.PL, even on the perl command
line..) with no success.

thanks.

..david


---
david raistrick
drais@atlasta.net		http://www.expita.com/nomime.html




-------------------------------------------------------
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www.osdn.com/911/
_______________________________________________
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1554.879f87b39484ac517e0950eeb5f7e0e8.eml000066400000000000000000000121601444326627400311570ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep 12 00:04:58 2002
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From: "Quentin Krengel" 
To: 
Cc: 
Subject: RE: [SAtalk] Debianized Packages for SA 2.3+
Organization: Krengel Technology Inc
Message-Id: <018d01c259dd$35066050$ad01a8c0@QUENTIN>
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X-Original-Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:50:07 -0500
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 16:50:07 -0500
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.9 required=7.0
	tests=ASCII_FORM_ENTRY,AWL,INVALID_MSGID,IN_REP_TO,
	      KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,NOSPAM_INC,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

I successfully installed spamassassin & razor to run system wide on my
Debian Woody server.  
 
Briefly I 
apt-get installed spamassassin razor and libmilter-dev,
 
downloaded spamass-milter-0.1.2.tar.gz from http://www.milter.org,
ungzipped and untarred the file into /etc/mail, 
 
followed the directions in /etc/mail/spamass-milter-0.1.2/README to
compile the milter, install the rc scripts, and edit and update
sendmail.mc
 
changed /etc/default/spamassassin to set spamassassin to daemon mode.
 
verified that spamassassin was running by tailing /var/log/mail.log
 
 
Woody/stable has SA 2.20
Woody/unstable has SA 2.41

I'm running the stable source live right now and it is working very
well.

If you want unstable change /etc/apt/sources.list, substituting
"unstable" for "stable",
Run apt-get update
Install the unstable versions
Change /etc/apt/sources.list
Run apt-get update


Quentin Krengel
Krengel Technology Inc



-----Original Message-----
From: spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net
[mailto:spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net] On Behalf Of
Tanniel Simonian
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 4:15 PM
To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: [SAtalk] Debianized Packages for SA 2.3+


Im currently using woody.

Is there a debianized package for SA on Woody, or at least somewhere I
can download from? Its been soo long that I haven't compiled stuff, that
Im sort of shy to try again. =)



-- 
Tanniel Simonian
Programmer / Analyst III
UCR Libraries
http://libsys.ucr.edu
909 787 2832




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www.osdn.com/911/ _______________________________________________
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1555.52c8b37d4f76bb274a73e2b6609e9655.eml000066400000000000000000000112671444326627400310710ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep 12 00:05:00 2002
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From: Stephane Lentz 
To: David Raistrick 
Cc: SpamAssassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Re: [SAdev] File::Spec and v2.41
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On Wed, Sep 11, 2002 at 01:46:19PM -0700, David Raistrick wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Stephane Lentz wrote:
> 
> > => I faced a similar problem with the FreeBSD when trying to 
> > install SpamAssassin through the ports on my fresh FreeBSD 4.6.2. 
> > I had to define PERL5LIB with some given order of directories
> > so that the latest File::Spec module get used. 
> 
> Good to hear it's not just me.  Mind telling me how you set PERL5LIB
> specificly? I've tried a few things (setenv in the shell, as well as
> $PERL5LIB == ...inside the Makefile.PL, even on the perl command
> line..) with no success.
> 
- Presuming your run Bash  :
Note the directory lists 
#  perl -e 'map { print "$_\n" } @INC'
Then set up the Shell variable PERL5LIB variable (and put it in some .bashrc 
for future use)
# export PERL5LIB="directory1:directory2:directory3:directory4"
Then try to install the software

PERL5LIB is explained perlrun(1) : do 
# man perlrun for more information

Regards, 

SL/
---
Stephane Lentz / Alcanet International - Internet Services


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1556.9649e5e9ca6adb64eadad468e458ab1b.eml000066400000000000000000000100761444326627400315220ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep 12 00:05:24 2002
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Organization: Paradigm-Omega, LLC
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So far today, I've found eff.org and mandrakesoft.com in DCC.  My confidence 
in DCC is beginning to drop.
-- 
Robin Lynn Frank
Paradigm-Omega, LLC
==================================
No electrons were harmed in the sending
of this message.  However, two neutrons and 
a proton complained about the noise.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1557.ca393b0c2ccca10ee02981cf20cea52a.eml000066400000000000000000000106241444326627400314450ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep 12 00:05:26 2002
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From: Ian White 
To: Vince Puzzella 
Cc: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Badly Formatted Spam Report in HTML spam
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On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, Vince Puzzella wrote:

> Ever since I set defang_mime 0 all spam that contains HTML has a badly
> formatted report.  I think/realize it's because the report should be in
> HTML.  Is there anyway to get Spamassassin to add an HTML report in
> cases where it is required (defang_mime 0)?

Funny, I was in the middle of composing the same message when I saw yours.

It would be nice if it sees a header like:
Content-type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1

and defang_mime is 0, it could wrap the report with 
 for ease
of reading?

And the same sort of problem seems to occur with base64 encoded messages.
The report is placed inside of the mime boundary:
------=_NextPart_000_00B7_31E64A2B.B8441E37
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

SPAM: -------------------- Start SpamAssassin results ----------------------

Should this not go above (probably in it's own mime section,) to make sure
that the attachments don't get destroyed?

Ian

-------------------------------------------
Ian White
email: iwhite@victoria.tc.ca








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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1558.7f77f46b6272f003f0b588f6a0eddceb.eml000066400000000000000000000114111444326627400313520ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep 12 13:43:40 2002
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On 9/11/2002 at 10:01 AM  spamassassin-talk-request@lists.sourceforge.net
spamassassin-talk@lists.sourceforge.net wrote:


>Message: 15
>From: Vivek Khera 
>Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 10:06:55 -0400
>To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
>Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Calypso email = ratware? 
>
>>>>>> "JM" == Justin Mason  writes:
>
>JM> Now all we need to do is get all the SpamAssassin users out there to
>JM> upgrade...
>
>Considering that the rules need to adapt to the changing look and feel
>of spam vs. non-spam, does it make sense to have SA automatically
>issue a notice when it is, say 9 months old, recommending that the
>user/operator check for updated rules?
>
>Sort of like a nag-ware feature, but in self-defense for the user, not
>the vendor ;-)
>
>-- 
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>Vivek Khera, Ph.D.                Khera Communications, Inc.
>Internet: khera@kciLink.com       Rockville, MD       +1-240-453-8497
>AIM: vivekkhera Y!: vivek_khera   http://www.khera.org/~vivek/

better yet would be a built-in server check on a periodic basis, even
daily, looking for the existence of an update, and if found prompt the
system admin to upgrade the server.  With the ever changing face of spam,
this would probably be a big benefit to SA users and help keep everyone up
to date.  We have not done this with too many of the apps we sell on
www.RoseCitySoftware.com strictly because of joe-average-user concerns
about spyware and "phoning home", but in cases where the app needs to
access the internet anyhow, we have done it with great success and minimal
concern by our users.

----
Joseph Burke
President/CEO
InfiniSource, Inc.
 








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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1559.ed17f96c32605795f5d5f88af0c79093.eml000066400000000000000000000075111444326627400311070ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep 12 15:03:28 2002
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From: "Eric Mings" 
To: "Spamassassin Talk" 
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Bayesian and bogofilter
Message-Id: <20020912130550.1275@192.168.1.3>
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:05:50 -0400
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:05:50 -0400
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.0 required=7.0
	tests=FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,IN_REP_TO,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,REFERENCES,
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>Anyway I'm making good progress and my implementation works reasonably
>well.  It now seems blindingly clear that we want a tightly-integrated
>implementation of Naive Bayes spam/nonspam classification.  There are
>still some things about how to do this right inside SA that I still am
>figuring out.
>
>Dan

This is very good news! Will this allow for individual spam word file
preferences when spamassassin is running on a mailserver for multiple
users? This would be an outstanding addition if it can be done. Thanks
much for a great project.

-- 
Regards,

Eric Mings Ph.D.



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1560.7e2353b8cfa54eec7a467743eaed5afd.eml000066400000000000000000000111261444326627400315070ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep 12 21:09:40 2002
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Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Reject, Blackhole, or Fake No-User
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Op 12-09-2002 00:35 schreef Ellen Clary (ellen@dgi.com):

>> Then there is a third possibility. Instead of returning a 550 code
>> indicating you're on to the spammer, fake a 5.1.1 response which is
>> saying "mailbox does not exist." This would be in the hopes that some
>> spammers out there actually remove names reported as non-existent from
>> their lists. I know, a slim hope, but even if only a few do, it can
>> lower the incidence.
> 
> They don't, I can guarantee that.  Quite a few spamtraps nowadays
> operate by 5nn'ing for 6 months in the hope of getting legit mailers
> to remove bouncing addrs from lists;  then after 6 months, they just
> spamtrap all incoming mail to those addrs.  (unfortunately a lot of
> legit mailers don't bother cleaning their lists either.)

Most spammers don't check reply codes at all, they just send out as many
mails as their system will hold without checking for any confirmation.

A trick to lower spam reception was dicussed on the postfix mailing list
some time ago: answer all incoming mail with a 4xx temporary error code when
it is offered the first time, and accept it the second time. Apparently most
mass-emailers don't even try to deliver a second time.



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1561.b968a0929d29009dbb76603323c1862f.eml000066400000000000000000000124151444326627400307070ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep 12 21:09:59 2002
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To: 
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Heh. RTFM.. Sorry about that.

Yep, that did the trick.

Thanks for the help!

Regards,
Paul Fries
paul@cwie.net

-----Original Message-----
From: spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net
[mailto:spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net] On Behalf Of
Vince Puzzella
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 11:23 AM
To: Paul Fries; spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: RE: [SAtalk] 2.41/2.50 spamd/spamc problem

defang_mime 0

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Fries [mailto:paul@cwie.net] 
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 2:12 PM
To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: [SAtalk] 2.41/2.50 spamd/spamc problem


I noticed that after upgrading to 2.41 (or 2.50) from 2.31, the -F
option was removed from spamd. 

This is fine because all of the HTML format mail seems to arrive
properly. However, messages that get tagged as Spam arrive as just html
source.

Is there any way around this? I would like all HTML/RTF messages to
retain their formatting even if they are flagged as spam. I would
accomplish this on 2.31 by using the "-F 0" flag when starting spamd.

Thanks!

Regards,
Paul Fries
paul@cwie.net
CWIE LLC 



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1562.6aca6138ec917241b64782a98697c17f.eml000066400000000000000000000165111444326627400310060ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Sep 13 16:51:24 2002
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From: "Nick Adams" 
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Subject: [SAtalk] Spamassassin with Pyzor
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C25B03.83C4FDB0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I installed Spamassassin 2.41 with Razor V2 the other day and it has =
been working great. I decided to add Pyzor last night and I got that =
installed successfully (I think, no errors). I am using spamd and I see =
where it periodically spawns off a pyzor process; however nothing has =
been detected as spam by Pyzor under Spamassassin. It has been running =
for almost half a day now on a 5,000 user mail server - so to me the =
odds of something being caught by it should be high. I run spamd as =
follows:

spamd -d -H

and all my users home directories have a .pyzor directory with the =
server listed under it.

I setup a test procmail recipe that just invokes pyzor check and not =
spamc to see if in fact pyzor alone catches any spam -  I just set this =
up so no results yet. Here is what I get when I check connectivity to =
the pyzor server:

 pyzor -d ping
sending: 'User: anonymous\nTime: 1031921041\nSig: =
161c547ac6248589910f97b1b5cd37e6dffc8eaf\n\nOp: ping\nThread: 14733\nPV: =
2.0\n\n'
received: 'Thread: 14733\nCode: 200\nDiag: OK\nPV: 2.0\n\n'
167.206.208.233:24442   (200, 'OK')

Any help/examples would be appreciated. Thanks! BTW, keep up the great =
work Spamassassin team!

Nick


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.386 / Virus Database: 218 - Release Date: 9/9/2002

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C25B03.83C4FDB0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









I installed Spamassassin 2.41 with =
Razor V2=20
the other day and it has been working great. I decided to add Pyzor last =
night=20
and I got that installed successfully (I think, no errors). I am using =
spamd and=20
I see where it periodically spawns off a pyzor process; however nothing =
has been=20
detected as spam by Pyzor under Spamassassin. It has been running for =
almost=20
half a day now on a 5,000 user mail server - so to me the odds of =
something=20
being caught by it should be high. I run spamd as follows:


 


spamd -d -H


 


and all my users home directories have =
a .pyzor=20
directory with the server listed under it.


 


I setup a test procmail recipe that =
just invokes=20
pyzor check and not spamc to see if in fact pyzor alone catches any spam =
-=20
 I just set this up so no results yet. Here is what I get when I =
check=20
connectivity to the pyzor server:


 


 pyzor -d ping
sending: 'User:=20
anonymous\nTime: 1031921041\nSig:=20
161c547ac6248589910f97b1b5cd37e6dffc8eaf\n\nOp: ping\nThread: 14733\nPV: =

2.0\n\n'
received: 'Thread: 14733\nCode: 200\nDiag: OK\nPV:=20
2.0\n\n'
167.206.208.233:24442   (200, 'OK')


 


Any help/examples would be appreciated. =
Thanks!=20
BTW, keep up the great work Spamassassin team!


 


Nick


 



---
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Virus=20
Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: =
6.0.386 /=20
Virus Database: 218 - Release Date: 9/9/2002


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1563.4869bc6713ad6960f9b607c03dfa1c23.eml000066400000000000000000000136771444326627400311410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Sep 13 16:51:45 2002
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On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 03:21:08PM +0200, carlo@alinoe.com wrote:
> So... it seems to me that they DO clean up
> their lists, but only when a spam fails to
> deliver - or can't they detect that?
>=20
> What do spammers do with email addresses in
> their database that are undeliverable for a
> few years?  Do they still continue to spam
> them?

Well, here's my semi-coherent rant for the moment.  ;)

I have >3100 spamtraps on my machine (you can multiply that by each domain
if you really want to).  The vast majority (all but, say, 10) have never
ever existed.  Yet, spammers would semi-continuously connect, try to
deliver mail to 40 of them, disconnect, connect again, try delivering
to 40 more...  over and over, they kept getting "User unknown" until I
got around to making them spamtraps.

So my evidence would suggest that it depends who you're dealing with. :)
If your "business" is to sell address lists to people who would then spam,
it's in your best interest to never clean your list.  Therefore you can
say "10 million email addresses" and not technically be lying, even if
the majority of them don't work.

If you're a spammer, you'd want to know who doesn't actually exist, but
then again you don't really care: you probably want to relay through
someone so it's harder to trace you, if you could you'd send to every
email address available, you don't want to setup a valid bounce address
because again it's easy to trace you.

So I would say this, if you technically spam people but actually think
you're running a legit service, you probably really do have a way of
opting out (even though the user didn't opt in) and you probably don't
relay, and you probably pay attention to bounces.

Everyone else doesn't really care.


That's my view anyway. :)

--=20
Randomly Generated Tagline:
"Now you can do that thing with your hands... It's ok." - Prof. Farr

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1564.8631d760e58b96dbd506f4bbc0a020f0.eml000066400000000000000000000111741444326627400311720ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Sep 13 16:51:47 2002
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From: Tony Hoyle 
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: carlo@alinoe.com [mailto:carlo@alinoe.com]
> Sent: 13 September 2002 14:21
> To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [SAtalk] Getting yourself removed from spam lists
>
> I get the feeling that the spammers never
> remove emails from their lists.

Correct...

> On the other hand, that doesn't make sense:
> wouldn't they get worried about their millions
> of spams being wasted?  Don't they WANT *some*
> prove that they indeed *reach* people somehow?

No, they only have to prove that they send several million
emails to 'potential clients' to get their money.  I don't think
they even care much about bounces.  They're con-artists, why
should they care about proving they actually reached people?
 
> So... it seems to me that they DO clean up
> their lists, but only when a spam fails to
> deliver - or can't they detect that?

Most of the time the bounce goes to some poor soul who has
nothing to do with the spammer.

> What do spammers do with email addresses in
> their database that are undeliverable for a
> few years?  Do they still continue to spam
> them?

Yes.

Tony


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1565.f6d00c2ee66b5687a153affd23870524.eml000066400000000000000000000072151444326627400311300ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Sep 13 16:51:49 2002
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On Fri, 13 Sep 2002 the voices made carlo@alinoe.com write:

> What do spammers do with email addresses in
> their database that are undeliverable for a
> few years?  Do they still continue to spam
> them?

 Yes.


	/Tony
-- 
# Per scientiam ad libertatem! // Through knowledge towards freedom! #
# Genom kunskap mot frihet! =*= (c) 1999-2002 tony@svanstrom.com =*= #

     perl -e'print$_{$_} for sort%_=`lynx -dump svanstrom.com/t`'



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1566.513fb571511122853df82c890115f8e9.eml000066400000000000000000000106341444326627400306340ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Sep 13 20:45:22 2002
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From: "vernon" 
To: "spamassassin-talk" 
Reply-To: vernon@comp-wiz.com
Message-Id: <20020913183343.M49078@b2unow.com>
In-Reply-To: <20020913151635.M21128@b2unow.com>
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Subject: [SAtalk] OT: DNS MX Record Clarification Please
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This may be a little off topic but thought people here would have a better
response to this elsewhere.

I have setup two MX records (mail and bmail) for my mail server. The one I
gave a 10 (bmail) the other a 20 (mail).

bmail(10) I gave a 10 because I want all mail to go through this server to
be scanned for SPAM and viruses and then relayed to the mail(20) server for
delivery.

As I understand it, DNS A records are used in a rotating fashion for load
balancing, but DNS MX records are used in order or prority, meaning the 10
before the 20 and only 20 if the 10 isn't available.

But only some of the mail is actually being scanned which leads me to
believe that not all of the mail is actually hitting that box and the 10
never goes down. Why? Have I got something confused here?

Thanks,
V
------- End of Forwarded Message -------




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1567.eeb0beaf2f749c8281d93d1536cce247.eml000066400000000000000000000144271444326627400313630ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Sep 13 20:45:28 2002
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From: Theo Van Dinter 
To: vernon@comp-wiz.com
Cc: spamassassin-talk 
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] OT: DNS MX Record Clarification Please
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--Fnm8lRGFTVS/3GuM
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
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On Fri, Sep 13, 2002 at 01:33:43PM -0500, vernon wrote:
> As I understand it, DNS A records are used in a rotating fashion for load
> balancing, but DNS MX records are used in order or prority, meaning the 10
> before the 20 and only 20 if the 10 isn't available.

That's the theory, yes.

> But only some of the mail is actually being scanned which leads me to
> believe that not all of the mail is actually hitting that box and the 10
> never goes down. Why? Have I got something confused here?

No, but either due to some technical glitch, or downright just wanting
to do so, people send to the secondary.  It's a semi-usual spammer trick
actually to bypass the main server and send directly to a secondary
since it will either have less filtering, or be "trusted", or ...

MX records in the mail world are all explained in RFC 2821, section 5:

[...]
   Multiple MX records contain a preference indication that MUST be used
   in sorting (see below).  Lower numbers are more preferred than higher
   ones.  If there are multiple destinations with the same preference
   and there is no clear reason to favor one (e.g., by recognition of an
   easily-reached address), then the sender-SMTP MUST randomize them to
   spread the load across multiple mail exchangers for a specific
   organization.
[...]
   If it determines that it should relay the message without rewriting
   the address, it MUST sort the MX records to determine candidates for
   delivery.  The records are first ordered by preference, with the
   lowest-numbered records being most preferred.  The relay host MUST
   then inspect the list for any of the names or addresses by which it
   might be known in mail transactions.  If a matching record is found,
   all records at that preference level and higher-numbered ones MUST be
   discarded from consideration.  If there are no records left at that
   point, it is an error condition, and the message MUST be returned as
   undeliverable.  If records do remain, they SHOULD be tried, best
   preference first, as described above.

--=20
Randomly Generated Tagline:
"Now let's say I like sheep...  And now let's say I take the sheep to a=20
 Christmas party..."               - Bob Golub

--Fnm8lRGFTVS/3GuM
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE9gjX9AuOQUeWAs2MRAg7PAJ42kO68knZx76oQbrZPMGdg/JbJHACfQvlX
O/Utl8FY01aS+/e3VNE9WWM=
=O6kU
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--Fnm8lRGFTVS/3GuM--


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1568.dcedec6fe7d15916774846928acd2872.eml000066400000000000000000000121241444326627400312410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Sep 13 20:45:30 2002
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From: Theo Van Dinter 
To: Jeremy Kusnetz 
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Subject: Re: [SAtalk] spamc -c problems on 2.41?
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X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-14.9 required=7.0
	tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,
	      PGP_SIGNATURE_2,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT,
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X-Spam-Level: 


--Hlh2aiwFLCZwGcpw
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, Sep 12, 2002 at 01:47:27PM -0700, Jeremy Kusnetz wrote:
> When running:
> spamc -c < sample-spam.txt
> I get: 18.9/6.0   Which looks correct, BUT
> doing an echo $?, returns a 0 instead of 1.

Can you submit this to bugzilla?  It definately is a bug, I mean I do
a packet trace and here's what I get with one of my spams:

[the request]

0040  0b 8e 43 48 45 43 4b 20 53 50 41 4d 43 2f 31 2e   ..CHECK SPAMC/1.
0050  32 0d 0a 55 73 65 72 3a 20 66 65 6c 69 63 69 74   2..User: felicit
0060  79 0d 0a 43 6f 6e 74 65 6e 74 2d 6c 65 6e 67 74   y..Content-lengt
0070  68 3a 20 38 33 34 39 0d 0a 0d 0a                  h: 8349....

[the spam, removed for brevity]

[the response]

0040  0b 8f 53 50 41 4d 44 2f 31 2e 31 20 30 20 45 58   ..SPAMD/1.1 0 EX
0050  5f 4f 4b 0d 0a 53 70 61 6d 3a 20 46 61 6c 73 65   _OK..Spam: False
0060  20 3b 20 34 36 2e 35 20 2f 20 35 2e 30 0d 0a 0d    ; 46.5 / 5.0...


So spamd is definately returning false incorrectly.


--=20
Randomly Generated Tagline:
?pu gnikcab yb naem uoy tahw siht sI

--Hlh2aiwFLCZwGcpw
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE9gjgnAuOQUeWAs2MRAgoCAKDJGoZwXy7vwZuQIRaFfYJ+haWtbQCg9T0V
IW7ty+Y1BTybFpquY1ifZPc=
=eL/8
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--Hlh2aiwFLCZwGcpw--


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1569.5a4e7eeca40257722ccbe4dee1d636fa.eml000066400000000000000000000075051444326627400315100ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Sep 13 20:45:39 2002
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Subject: Re: [SAtalk] OT: DNS MX Record Clarification Please
From: Jason Kohles 
To: vernon@comp-wiz.com
Cc: spamassassin-talk 
In-Reply-To: <20020913183343.M49078@b2unow.com>
References: <20020913151635.M21128@b2unow.com>
    <20020913183343.M49078@b2unow.com>
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	      KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,
	      SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

On Fri, 2002-09-13 at 14:33, vernon wrote:
> 
> But only some of the mail is actually being scanned which leads me to
> believe that not all of the mail is actually hitting that box and the 10
> never goes down. Why? Have I got something confused here?
> 
Sending mail directly to a backup mail server in the hopes that it has
less stringent spam scanning is a common spammer trick.

-- 
Jason Kohles                                 jkohles@redhat.com
Senior Engineer                 Red Hat Professional Consulting



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1570.a0b2e109e4f244de9538fed3b472f1db.eml000066400000000000000000000122731444326627400313400ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Sat Sep 14 20:05:30 2002
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From: Theo Van Dinter 
To: Justin Mason 
Cc: Gerry Doris ,
	Spamassassin-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Still confused about spamd/c
Message-Id: <20020914161913.GA20696@kluge.net>
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--Q68bSM7Ycu6FN28Q
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sat, Sep 14, 2002 at 04:27:47PM +0100, Justin Mason wrote:
> It's probably that razor needs to be "razor-register"'d for each user.
> Try creating a world-writable "home dir" for Razor and DCC et al to store
> their files in; that way spamd will share the razor server info etc.
> between all users.

uh, no, you don't want to make it world-writable.  world-readable.

> Then use "spamd -H /path/to/world/writeable/dir" .

Just remember that the .razor and whatever DCC uses needs to be
world-readable as well.  The solution is then to make a world-writable
log file for at least Razor.  I like symlinking /dev/null myself.

> IMO this is more efficient than using "spamd -H", which will use each
> user's own home dir for this data, but it's a matter of opinion ;)

efficient?  probably (depends on the user base), but it also takes
the control away from the user (which may or may not be a good thing,
depending again on the user base...)

--=20
Randomly Generated Tagline:
"What's funny?  I'd like to know.  Send me some E-Mail." - Prof. Farr

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iD8DBQE9g2GBAuOQUeWAs2MRAlljAKC+83f/mNoINBjoxOWBaNk4NgWsVQCg3qzO
v0EQ6XGB3ufLLudAUAADtYA=
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1571.5cc089d07e3c447b7be3a24b36fbd07a.eml000066400000000000000000000061561444326627400313410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Mon Sep 16 00:10:32 2002
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I have searched the list but did not find any info on this. 

How do I setup multiple spamd machines so that spamc load balances - or 
anything similar? 

Duane.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1572.6b71d37ef29a804f1b0b65b90eee0d0e.eml000066400000000000000000000076571444326627400313510ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Mon Sep 16 00:10:34 2002
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To: "Tony L. Svanstrom" 
Cc: carlo@alinoe.com, spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Getting yourself removed from spam lists
References: <20020913161526.A97345-100000@moon.campus.luth.se>
X-Emacs: a Lisp interpreter masquerading as ... a Lisp interpreter!
From: Nix 
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	      SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,USER_AGENT
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Tony L. Svanstrom mused:
> On Fri, 13 Sep 2002 the voices made carlo@alinoe.com write:
> 
>> What do spammers do with email addresses in
>> their database that are undeliverable for a
>> few years?  Do they still continue to spam
>> them?
> 
>  Yes.

So much so that I get thousands of bounces per day on this machine aimed
at what are plainly message-ids...

-- 
`Let's have a round of applause for those daring young men
 and their flying spellcheckers.' --- Meg Worley


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1573.2fa3928a9828d1c51517565a833b9f18.eml000066400000000000000000000073431444326627400307270ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Mon Sep 16 00:10:40 2002
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From: "Vernon Webb" 
To: "spamassassin-talk" 
Reply-To: vernon@comp-wiz.com
Message-Id: <20020915191805.M8021@comp-wiz.com>
X-Mailer: MP-I.com Messaging OpenWebMail 1.71 20020827
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	      TO_LOCALPART_EQ_REAL
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

I'm getting these messages and I'm not sure what they mean. Can anyone clear 
this up for me? Thanks.

Sep 15 11:45:09 linux mailscanner[6128]: RBL Check ORDB-RBL timed out and 
was killed, consecutive failure 3 of 7
Sep 15 11:45:24 linux mailscanner[6128]: SpamAssassin timed out and was 
killed


-- 
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner at comp-wiz.com,
and is believed to be clean.



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1574.b1f0d9b40506000be4910e25a7c3ac3c.eml000066400000000000000000000076771444326627400311630ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Mon Sep 16 00:10:43 2002
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To: Marc Perkel 
Cc: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAdev] Suggestion - 2 levels of Spam Status
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On Sun, 15 Sep 2002 the voices made Marc Perkel write:

> Right now we have one spam status flag indicating that a message is or
> is not spam. The idea being that the end user perhaps make a rule that
> would move the spam flagged messages into a spam folder and thus gain
> some time by presorting messages into to piles.

 If you (people) don't know enough to filter on the actual score they've got
the "stars", which will give them more than enough levers, if they want it.


	/Tony
-- 
# Per scientiam ad libertatem! // Through knowledge towards freedom! #
# Genom kunskap mot frihet! =*= (c) 1999-2002 tony@svanstrom.com =*= #

     perl -e'print$_{$_} for sort%_=`lynx -dump svanstrom.com/t`'



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1575.b4d0187663f37a4c6863e4aa2d594444.eml000066400000000000000000000077301444326627400310010ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Mon Sep 16 00:10:45 2002
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From: Gerry Doris 
To: Vernon Webb 
Cc: spamassassin-talk 
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] RBL timed oiut and Spam Assassin killed
In-Reply-To: <20020915191805.M8021@comp-wiz.com>
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	tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,IN_REP_TO,
	      KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,
	      SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_PINE
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

On Sun, 15 Sep 2002, Vernon Webb wrote:

> I'm getting these messages and I'm not sure what they mean. Can anyone clear 
> this up for me? Thanks.
> 
> Sep 15 11:45:09 linux mailscanner[6128]: RBL Check ORDB-RBL timed out and 
> was killed, consecutive failure 3 of 7
> Sep 15 11:45:24 linux mailscanner[6128]: SpamAssassin timed out and was 
> killed

Your running mailscanner and the timeout used got to check ORDB-RBL is too 
low and your timing out.  mailscanner will count up to seven timeouts and 
then automatically disable these checks until it restarts itself (within 4 
hours).

-- 
Gerry

"The lyfe so short, the craft so long to learne"  Chaucer



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1576.9fc27f643c41595b2801b4b7962bd6c0.eml000066400000000000000000000077371444326627400310670ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Mon Sep 16 00:10:47 2002
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To: "Tony L. Svanstrom" 
Cc: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAdev] Suggestion - 2 levels of Spam Status
References: <20020915223031.O43994-100000@moon.campus.luth.se>
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	tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,REFERENCES,
	      SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,
	      X_ACCEPT_LANG
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Tony L. Svanstrom wrote:

>On Sun, 15 Sep 2002 the voices made Marc Perkel write:
>
>>Right now we have one spam status flag indicating that a message is or
>>is not spam. The idea being that the end user perhaps make a rule that
>>would move the spam flagged messages into a spam folder and thus gain
>>some time by presorting messages into to piles.
>>
>
> If you (people) don't know enough to filter on the actual score they've got
>the "stars", which will give them more than enough levers, if they want it.
>
>
>	/Tony
>
Sure - we developers know that - but what I'm talking about is making it 
easier for END USERS to figure out.





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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1577.da07880d399d5552771d328aea473928.eml000066400000000000000000000062161444326627400307340ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Mon Sep 16 18:32:40 2002
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To: ,
	
Subject: [Razor-users] Performance
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Has anyone noticed a drop in razor-check performance over the past week?
I disabled the razorchecks in Spamassassin and my queues start to clean
out again.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1578.0c18da688c1ae54f27a3a4eb27d4005b.eml000066400000000000000000000075321444326627400312560ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Tue Sep 17 17:35:04 2002
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To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
From: Chris 
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Subject: [SAtalk] Running SA as a user app?
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	tests=FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Can anybody point me to a project/FAQ similar to this:?

1. Perl script fetches POP mail from a distant server
2. mail is fed to SA, running as a standalone module in my user account
3. SA spits out results back to perl script.
4. Script deletes offending mail.

I don't have root access.  I don't need a MTA.

=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0
Chris Fortune
Fortune's Web Computer Services
Nelson, BC, Canada
V1L 2W3

ph#: 250 505-5012
email: cfortune@telus.net
website: http://cfortune.kics.bc.ca/

=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0=0



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1579.2b2d92136109e10122b2af311a414783.eml000066400000000000000000000065731444326627400306020ustar00rootroot00000000000000Replied: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 00:33:33 +0100
Replied: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
Replied: Daniel Quinlan 
Replied: Matt Sergeant 
Replied: Spamassassin-devel 
From: quinlan@pathname.com  Mon Sep 16 00:08:16 2002
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To: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
Cc: Matt Sergeant ,
	Spamassassin-devel 
Subject: Re: [SAdev] testing with less rules
References: <20020913211335.564DD16F03@example.com>
From: Daniel Quinlan 
Date: 14 Sep 2002 14:41:34 -0700
In-Reply-To: yyyy@example.com's message of "Fri, 13 Sep 2002 22:13:30 +0100"
Message-Id: 
Lines: 51
X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-8.7 required=7.0
	tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,LINES_OF_YELLING,
	      LINES_OF_YELLING_2,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,
	      SPAM_PHRASE_00_01
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

jm@jmason.org (Justin Mason) writes:

>>>   DATE_IN_PAST_48_96
>>>   SPAM_PHRASE_00_01
>>>   SPAM_PHRASE_01_02
>>>   SPAM_PHRASE_02_03
>>>   SPAM_PHRASE_03_05
>>>   SPAM_PHRASE_05_08

> I was thinking of just removing those particular rules, but keeping the
> other entries in the range, since they're proving too "noisy" to be
> effective.  But I'd be willing to keep those ones in, all the same.  What
> do you think?  Matt/Craig, thoughts?

I think I could handle commenting out the lowest SPAM_PHRASE_XX_YY
scores.  If the GA could handle this sort of thing so they'd
automatically be zeroed, I'd feel better since the ranges could change
next time the phrase list is regenerated or the algorithm tweaked.

I think we need to understand why DATE_IN_PAST_48_96 is so low before
we remove it.  The two rules on either side perform quite well.

>> And here are the rules that seem like they should be better or should
>> be recoverable:

>>>   FROM_MISSING
>>>   GAPPY_TEXT
>>>   INVALID_MSGID
>>>   MIME_NULL_BLOCK
>>>   SUBJ_MISSING

> well, I don't like SUBJ_MISSING, I reckon there's a world of mails from
> cron jobs (e.g.) which hit it.

Okay, drop SUBJ_MISSING.

> But, yes, the others for sure should be recoverable, and I'm sure there's
> more.

Probably a few, those seemed like the best prospects to me.

> BTW do you agree with the proposed methodology (ie. remove the rules and
> bugzilla each one?)

I only want a bugzilla ticket for each one if people are okay with
quick WONTFIX closes on the ones deemed unworthy of recovery.

If you could put the stats for each rule in the ticket somehow (should
be automatable with email at the very least), it would help.

Dan


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1580.108304b0d17fc6c34436e63e5f30fc47.eml000066400000000000000000000040541444326627400310330ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: quinlan@pathname.com  Mon Sep 16 10:41:51 2002
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Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2002 21:55:47 -0700
To: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
Cc: Daniel Quinlan ,
	Matt Sergeant ,
	Spamassassin-devel 
Subject: Re: [SAdev] testing with less rules
In-Reply-To: <20020915233332.82A4E16F03@example.com>
References: 
    <20020915233332.82A4E16F03@jmason.org>
X-Mailer: VM 7.04 under Emacs 20.7.2
Reply-To: quinlan@pathname.com
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-8.5 required=7.0
	tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,
	      REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Justin Mason  writes:

> hmm. also I think I've found some cases where it's hitting on fetchmail
> Received hdrs.  that's bad.  so it could be fixed....

fetchmail adds Received headers?  That seems wrong.  I'll open a bug
to investigate.  Can you attach some examples?

> yeah, will do -- somehow.  pity the bugzilla doesn't allow email
> submissions...

Agreed.  At least you can add information with email.

- Dan


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1581.c8719428ba4a8c4655281826b878ddd0.eml000066400000000000000000000046431444326627400310100ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: schaefer@zanshin.com  Mon Sep 16 19:20:19 2002
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    g8GIJJh32385; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:19:19 -0700
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:19:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bart Schaefer 
To: Justin Mason 
Cc: Simon Matthews ,
	
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Can someone please tell me how to get an answer from
    this list?
In-Reply-To: <20020916180348.DBE0616F03@example.com>
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	tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,
	      SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,SUBJECT_IS_LIST,USER_AGENT_PINE
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Justin Mason wrote:

> Simon Matthews said:
> 
> > Procmail 3.21 is reliable as long as none of the recipies fails. I was 
> > hoping to resolve the triplets.txt problem and thus avoid the procmail 
> > "^rom" problem. 
> 
> I doubt it's related, actually -- the "triplets" stuff is in a totally
> unrelated area of code.

The procmail bug happens when the filter program does something that 
procmail doesn't expect.  Exactly what that something is, hasn't been
confirmed by anyone on the procmail list.  It might be exiting with a
nonzero status, or it might be producing output on the standard error,
or it might be something else entirely.

So Simon is attempting to get SA to run flawlessly, because then it can't
tickle the procmail bug.  This isn't a fix, it's a band-aid, but because
he apparently doesn't have the option of installing a newer procmail ...


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1582.ea28e13144adb7ec8718cad39728984b.eml000066400000000000000000000047241444326627400312240ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: quinlan@pathname.com  Tue Sep 17 23:30:38 2002
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	by jmason.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF15F16F03
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	by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0)
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To: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
Cc: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAdev] Re: [SAtalk] SpamAssassin and unconfirmed.dsbl.org
References: <20020917142054.5C4E916F16@example.com>
From: Daniel Quinlan 
Date: 17 Sep 2002 13:31:49 -0700
In-Reply-To: yyyy@example.com's message of "Tue, 17 Sep 2002 15:20:49 +0100"
Message-Id: 
Lines: 25
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	tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,
	      REFERENCES
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

jm@jmason.org (Justin Mason) writes:

> Folks who've been hacking on the DNSBLs: would it be worthwhile commenting
> this in HEAD, seeing as it only gets .77 anyway?
> 
> Sounds like the (a) broken server and (b) low hitrate combine to make it
> not-so-useful IMO.

No, in my opinion, it's purely a bug in SA (or the libraries we use,
which is the same thing) that we don't handle outages of network
services better.

The rule is useful and it does help reduce spam, we should keep it.  I
have a feeling the DNSBL rules will cluster a bit more heavily around
the 1.0 to 2.0 range once we start using the new GA on them.

Also, 0.77 was a slightly conservative number.  Since I didn't have
real-time data, I typically used the lower or median number of different
periods (most recent month, two months, six months), depending on the
trend of the period data (better performance for recent messages ->
favor recent scores, worse performance for recent messages -> favor
lowest scores, never pick the highest number unless the rule was very
accurate and the highest number was for the most recent data).

Dan


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1583.11883906b08a91ecad2910a1e5d869e1.eml000066400000000000000000000046111444326627400310430ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: jm@jmason.org  Wed Sep 18 12:45:20 2002
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	id 9B11716F1A; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:45:20 +0100 (IST)
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	by jmason.org (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 8EBC1F7B1; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:45:20 +0100 (IST)
To: "Gary Funck" 
Cc: "Spamassassin List" ,
	"Justin Mason" 
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] checking out Razor2 (and SA 2.41) install - Net::DNS:Resolver problem? 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Gary Funck"  
   of "Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:36:05 PDT."  
From: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
X-GPG-Key-Fingerprint: 0A48 2D8B 0B52 A87D 0E8A  6ADD 4137 1B50 6E58 EF0A
X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
X-Habeas-Swe-2: brightly anticipated
X-Habeas-Swe-3: like Habeas SWE (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this
X-Habeas-Swe-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas
X-Habeas-Swe-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant
X-Habeas-Swe-8: Message (HCM) and not spam.  Please report use of this
X-Habeas-Swe-9: mark in spam to .
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:45:15 +0100
Sender: yyyy@example.com
Message-Id: <20020918114520.9B11716F1A@example.com>
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.4 required=7.0
	tests=AWL,HABEAS_SWE,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 


Gary Funck said:
> I thought the ">> /perllocal.pod" line looked odd. Is it normal to write
> documentation into the root directory? (). Is there some Make parameter, o
> r
> environment variable that should've been set when I ran "make"?

an issue for Razor folks I think.

> It seems that by registering that I avoided the error path noted in my previo
> us
> e-mail where DNS::Net::Resolver was called, but does not exist in my Perl
> hierarchy.  Here's the new output from SA ans Razor2:
looks good.


> Question: if we use spamassassin on a per-user basis, invoked from procmailrc
> ,
> will each user have to run "razor-admin -register" first? Is there way to
> register with Razor just once per system?

If you use spamd with the -H option and provide a shared directory for
the razor config files to be written to.  RTFM for more details...

--j.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1584.bb777200011a887b5e7cbc0de0f84d64.eml000066400000000000000000000044461444326627400312040ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: jm@jmason.org  Wed Sep 18 12:57:54 2002
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	by jmason.org (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 40A2CF7B1; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:57:54 +0100 (IST)
To: Matt Kettler 
Cc: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason),
	SpamAssassin-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAdev] phew! 
In-Reply-To: Message from Matt Kettler  
   of "Wed, 18 Sep 2002 02:04:29 EDT." <5.1.1.6.0.20020918014722.00a99b20@mail.comcast.net> 
From: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
X-GPG-Key-Fingerprint: 0A48 2D8B 0B52 A87D 0E8A  6ADD 4137 1B50 6E58 EF0A
X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
X-Habeas-Swe-2: brightly anticipated
X-Habeas-Swe-3: like Habeas SWE (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this
X-Habeas-Swe-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas
X-Habeas-Swe-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant
X-Habeas-Swe-8: Message (HCM) and not spam.  Please report use of this
X-Habeas-Swe-9: mark in spam to .
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:57:49 +0100
Sender: yyyy@example.com
Message-Id: <20020918115754.4376516F1C@example.com>
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.4 required=7.0
	tests=AWL,HABEAS_SWE,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 


Matt Kettler said:
> Ok, first, the important stuff. Happy birthday Justin (a lil late, but
> oh well)

cheers!

> a 13% miss ratio on the spam corpus at 5.0 seems awfully high, although 
> that nice low FP percentage is quite nice, as is the narrow-in of average 
> FP/FN scores compared to 2.40.

As Dan said -- it's a hard corpus, made harder without the spamtrap data.

Also -- and this is an important point -- those measurements can't be
directly compared, because I changed the methodology.  In 2.40 the scores
were evolved on the entire corpus, then evaluated using that corpus; ie.
there was no "blind" testing, and the scores could overfit and still
provide good statistics.

In 2.42, they're evaluated "blind", on a totally unseen set of messages,
so those figures would be a lot more accurate for real-world use.

--j.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1585.82fb57152be63c79b28e68ae0ad319d9.eml000066400000000000000000000131471444326627400312270ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Wed Sep 18 14:07:12 2002
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Message-Id: <005901c25f08$b6d5b0b0$5a14348f@videoproducer>
From: "Ray Gardener" 
To: 
Organization: Shefield Hallam University
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
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X-Priority: 3
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X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
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Subject: [SAtalk] spamc and DCC
Sender: spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net
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	tests=KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,NOSPAM_INC
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C25F11.18554780
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi -=20

I upgraded to 2.40 (now 2.41) last week and the messages which are =
definitely in the DCC database aren't being marked as such by =
spamassassin when connected to via spamc. Interestingly it is detected =
when running spamassassin -t < sample-spam.txt (using the same userid =
incidentally). Is this a known "feature" of spamc under 2.4x or is there =
anything obvious that I am not implementing correctly? Note that as I =
implied above this used to work under 2.3x of spamassassin and =
spamd/spamc

Regards

Ray Gardener
Sheffield Hallam University
UK


------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C25F11.18554780
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









Hi - 


 


I upgraded to 2.40 (now 2.41) last =
week and=20
the messages which are definitely in the DCC database aren't being =
marked=20
as such by spamassassin when connected to via spamc. Interestingly it is =

detected when running spamassassin -t < sample-spam.txt (using the =
same=20
userid incidentally). Is this a known "feature" of spamc under 2.4x or =
is there=20
anything obvious that I am not implementing correctly? Note that as I =
implied=20
above this used to work under 2.3x of spamassassin and =
spamd/spamc


 


Regards


 


Ray Gardener


Sheffield Hallam =
University


UK


 


------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C25F11.18554780--



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1586.f2032491ca27076af18575e9ab78abcb.eml000066400000000000000000000074221444326627400312100ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep 19 16:31:49 2002
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To: "spamassassin-talk" 
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Ignore System Messages - How?
In-Reply-To: <20020918203819.M82175@b2unow.com>
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	tests=AWL,IN_REP_TO,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,REFERENCES
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

>>>>> "v" == vernon   writes:

v> Some of my "Security Violations" and "Unusual System Events" are being 
v> tagged as SPAM by SpamAssassin. How do I get SA to ignore these messages?

whitelists.  you *really* have to white list any message source that
discusses or is used to report spam, else the reports will be marked
as spam, given that they have the spam indicators in them, usually...

This is the *only* whitelisting I use.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1587.846578886a749978ec4a3f8cc44d9424.eml000066400000000000000000000042701444326627400307650ustar00rootroot00000000000000Replied: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:03:34 +0100
Replied: "Justin Mason" 
Replied: "Michael Moncur" 
Replied: "Daniel Quinlan" 
Replied: SpamAssassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
From: mgm@starlingtech.com  Fri Sep 20 11:29:51 2002
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    yrex.com with SMTP; 20 Sep 2002 03:43:04 -0000
From: "Michael Moncur" 
To: "Justin Mason" ,
	"Daniel Quinlan" 
Cc: 
Subject: RE: [SAdev] phew!
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:42:52 -0600
Message-Id: 
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> Yes, I think some others, (mgm?) have spamtrap data in there too.
>

My corpus is about 50% spamtrap spam at any given time. Let me know if I
should leave that out next time, I do keep it separate. My spamtraps are
pretty clean of viruses and bounce messages most of the time.

--
Michael Moncur  mgm at starlingtech.com  http://www.starlingtech.com/
"Lack of money is no obstacle. Lack of an idea is an obstacle." --Ken Hakuta


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1588.61ee71063f18d59f7c0326aa48ebec99.eml000066400000000000000000000050031444326627400312220ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: dougy@brizzie.org  Fri Sep 20 11:38:29 2002
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Message-Id: <031901c26055$f4aefab0$0300a8c0@oracle>
From: "Doug Young" 
To: "Justin Mason" 
Cc: 
References: <20020813124910.563B943C32@phobos.labs.netnoteinc.com>
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] dependencies / pre-requisites for installation in
    FreeBSD
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:29:39 +1000
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> > Would someone please enlighten me on dependencies / pre-requisites
> > for installation in FreeBSD. The 'official' documentation isn't
particularly
> > explicit about this stuff .... eg 'procmail' is mentioned but without
saying
> > whether or not its essential, & no info provided on whether GNUmake is
> > required or if standard BSD 'make' is OK.
>
> I thought we were quite good about it, in the README file!
>
> procmail is essential *if* you're using (a) SpamAssassin for local
> delivery, (b) not using a milter, and (c) not using a Mail::Audit
> script instead.  So probably yes.
>
> BSD make is OK, if Perl generally uses it to build Perl modules.
> SpamAssassin is just anotehr Perl module in that respect.
>
Back to this stuff again  ..... searched high & low but definitely nothing
on this system even vaguely resembling a README file for spamassassin.
I have procmail installed but having major problems comprehending the
setup .... would appreciate info on any 'simple english' HOWTo


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1589.5459ec44404ef9d0258edb476622bc45.eml000066400000000000000000000047731444326627400310750ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: jm@jmason.org  Fri Sep 20 13:03:34 2002
Return-Path: 
Delivered-To: yyyy@example.com
Received: by example.com (Postfix, from userid 500)
	id 6CA7916F03; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:03:34 +0100 (IST)
Received: from example.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by jmason.org (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 69CACF7B1; Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:03:34 +0100 (IST)
To: "Michael Moncur" 
Cc: "Justin Mason" ,
	"Daniel Quinlan" ,
	SpamAssassin-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAdev] phew! 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Michael Moncur"  
   of "Thu, 19 Sep 2002 21:42:52 MDT."  
From: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
X-GPG-Key-Fingerprint: 0A48 2D8B 0B52 A87D 0E8A  6ADD 4137 1B50 6E58 EF0A
X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
X-Habeas-Swe-2: brightly anticipated
X-Habeas-Swe-3: like Habeas SWE (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this
X-Habeas-Swe-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas
X-Habeas-Swe-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant
X-Habeas-Swe-8: Message (HCM) and not spam.  Please report use of this
X-Habeas-Swe-9: mark in spam to .
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:03:29 +0100
Sender: yyyy@example.com
Message-Id: <20020920120334.6CA7916F03@example.com>
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.1 required=5.0
	tests=AWL,HABEAS_SWE,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 


"Michael Moncur" said:

> My corpus is about 50% spamtrap spam at any given time. Let me know if I
> should leave that out next time, I do keep it separate. My spamtraps are
> pretty clean of viruses and bounce messages most of the time.

IMO spamtrap data that's well-cleaned and monitored is fine.

To my mind there's 3 types of spamtraps:

  1. old user addresses, recycled into spamtraps when the user closes
    the account

  2. old user addresses, recycled into spamtraps several months after the
    user closes the account, scanned for newsletters, unsubscribed
    from them etc.

  3. real spamtrap addresses to trap website crawlers.

The latter 2 are the most effective, but #1 is a real PITA; it takes lots
of maintainance to avoid ham getting in there.  Some of my spamtrap data
had a few 1's contributed by ISPs, and I hadn't spent enough time sifting
for legit mail that was slipping through.  So I felt better leaving
them out for this run, apart from what I'd hand-cleaned.

--j.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1590.8d27eaf596403ade34f593db10eb8f28.eml000066400000000000000000000076761444326627400313120ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Sun Sep 22 00:46:56 2002
Return-Path: 
Delivered-To: yyyy@localhost.example.com
Received: from localhost (jalapeno [127.0.0.1])
	by jmason.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9CF616F03
	for ; Sun, 22 Sep 2002 00:46:55 +0100 (IST)
Received: from jalapeno [127.0.0.1]
	by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0)
	for jm@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 22 Sep 2002 00:46:55 +0100 (IST)
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    21 Sep 2002 16:36:05 -0700
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From: bugzilla-daemon@hughes-family.org
To: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
X-Bugzilla-Reason: AssignedTo
Message-Id: <20020921233535.5EEF791DC9@belphegore.hughes-family.org>
Subject: [SAdev] [Bug 828] spamassassin.org is unreliable
Sender: spamassassin-devel-admin@example.sourceforge.net
Errors-To: spamassassin-devel-admin@example.sourceforge.net
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X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.8 required=5.0
	tests=AWL,BUGZILLA_BUG,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,NO_REAL_NAME
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

http://www.hughes-family.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=828

jm@jmason.org changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|ASSIGNED                    |RESOLVED
         Resolution|                            |FIXED



------- Additional Comments From jm@jmason.org  2002-09-21 16:35 -------
OK, this should now be considered fixed, I should think.

   Domain Name: SPAMASSASSIN.ORG
   Name Server: NS.PEREGRINEHW.COM
   Name Server: NS1.RTS.COM.AU
   Name Server: NS2.RTS.COM.AU
   Name Server: NS3.RTS.COM.AU
   Name Server: FAMILY.ZAWODNY.COM

etc.



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1591.6b6ae63033581aaf40cb6a6d08da2662.eml000066400000000000000000000076471444326627400311770ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Sun Sep 22 00:46:58 2002
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	by jmason.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7569B16F03
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Received: from jalapeno [127.0.0.1]
	by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0)
	for jm@localhost (single-drop); Sun, 22 Sep 2002 00:46:57 +0100 (IST)
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To: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
X-Bugzilla-Reason: AssignedTo
Message-Id: <20020921233650.AFB1488D3A@belphegore.hughes-family.org>
Subject: [SAdev] [Bug 1008] SpamAssassin does not work with Glance for
    Outlook 2k
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	tests=AWL,BUGZILLA_BUG,FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,
	      NO_REAL_NAME
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

http://www.hughes-family.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1008

jm@jmason.org changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|NEW                         |RESOLVED
         Resolution|                            |INVALID



------- Additional Comments From jm@jmason.org  2002-09-21 16:36 -------
Hi David --

I'm afraid this bug-tracking system is only used for the open-source
SpamAssassin (the UNIX one ;).   You need to talk to somebody
at deersoft.com instead.



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1592.e024e5de503dcf463bad5cd5c8c64210.eml000066400000000000000000000072421444326627400313320ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Sun Sep 22 00:46:59 2002
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	      NO_REAL_NAME
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

http://www.hughes-family.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=886





------- Additional Comments From jm@jmason.org  2002-09-21 16:37 -------
I'd prefer to wait and see if spammers do anything about it.  my
guess is they will not, as it'd mean modifying their spamware to
send >1 msg per recipient.

I vote WONTFIX as a result ;)



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1593.de7504b4655691f11b3e807e42a2b82c.eml000066400000000000000000000070601444326627400310430ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Sun Sep 22 00:47:02 2002
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http://www.hughes-family.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=813





------- Additional Comments From jm@jmason.org  2002-09-21 16:39 -------
Dan, BTW, is there any code from this that we can get checked in?
I'd love to mess around with it a bit.



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1594.f552f47fa01a4ca29e34182de6f0cca7.eml000066400000000000000000000117351444326627400313440ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Sun Sep 22 00:47:04 2002
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http://www.hughes-family.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1012





------- Additional Comments From easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu  2002-09-21 16:41 -------
I like this idea, but from my reading - part of my dissertation research -
on GAs (or, in this case, more precisely "Evolutionary Programming", since
the parameters are non-binary and the major operator is mutation, not
crossover), you do need to keep in mind that the more interactions there are
between different variables, the better-tweaked the GA/EA will need to be,
especially to avoid local optima (which may have been the problem with the
suspiciously-high "anti-ratware" USER_AGENT scores). From past results,
what's needed are one or more of the below:
        A. Determine mutational parameters by adapted-scores themselves,
           with variation on a per-original score basis; ideally, allow
           for having "correlated" mutations - in other words, have a
           mechanism in place for trying out changes to a bunch of scores at
           once, with them all moving about the same amount (albeit possibly
           in different directions) - one means to do this is found in the
           "Evolutionary Strategies" of Schwefel;
        B. Adapt the probability of a mutation taking place depending on how
           well previous mutation tries have done - if more than about a
           fifth of the new "individuals" are doing about as well as, or
           better than, the parental generation, then mutate more
           parameters; if less than a fifth of them are doing about as well
           as, or better than, the parental generation, then mutate less
           parameters.

        -Allen



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1595.fa533692bb0d635d6d1219663ee0f82c.eml000066400000000000000000000113661444326627400311340ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Mon Sep 23 15:13:20 2002
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To: "Mike Bostock" 
Cc: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Spam host?
In-Reply-To: Message from
    "Mike Bostock"
     of
    "Mon, 23 Sep 2002 09:56:59 BST."
    <20029238570161296016@surgery1.wistaria.co.uk>
From: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
X-GPG-Key-Fingerprint: 0A48 2D8B 0B52 A87D 0E8A  6ADD 4137 1B50 6E58 EF0A
X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
X-Habeas-Swe-2: brightly anticipated
X-Habeas-Swe-3: like Habeas SWE (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this
X-Habeas-Swe-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas
X-Habeas-Swe-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant
X-Habeas-Swe-8: Message (HCM) and not spam.  Please report use of this
X-Habeas-Swe-9: mark in spam to .
Message-Id: <20020923114839.7E8F716F17@example.com>
Sender: spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net
Errors-To: spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net
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X-Original-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 12:48:34 +0100
Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 12:48:34 +0100
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.9 required=5.0
	tests=AWL,HABEAS_SWE,IN_REP_TO,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,
	      QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 


"Mike Bostock" said:

> Received: from tracking2 (tracking2.roving.com [10.20.40.142])
> 	by ccm01.roving.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4696633ED4
> 	for ; Sun, 22 Sep 2002 17:57:03 -0400 (EDT)
> X-Mailer: Roving Constant Contact
> 5.0.Patch121c.P121C_SchedEnhancement_09_05_02
> (http://www.constantcontact.com)
> 
> Is worthy of attention and a rule - if you go to their web site it
> would appear that they are in the business of email mass marketing. 
> Unfortunately their mailing to me got through Spamassassin :-(

Interesting -- I haven't seen anything from these guys in about a year,
but looking at your hdr they're still doing it.

OK, come up with an X-Mailer rule that hits your mails, and we'll put it
in testing...

--j.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1596.313021ceff8185c1fad0d2d8d9e2342b.eml000066400000000000000000000111731444326627400312550ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Mon Sep 23 23:44:42 2002
Return-Path: 
Delivered-To: yyyy@localhost.example.com
Received: from localhost (jalapeno [127.0.0.1])
	by jmason.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F35E016F03
	for ; Mon, 23 Sep 2002 23:44:33 +0100 (IST)
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	by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0)
	for jm@localhost (single-drop); Mon, 23 Sep 2002 23:44:34 +0100 (IST)
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Message-Id: 
From: Jason Qualkenbush 
To: "'Stephane Lentz'" ,
	spamassassin-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: RE: [SAtalk] separate inbound and outbound
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
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X-Original-Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 15:33:48 -0700
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	tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,
	      QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 


No I was just a little confused because I'm running procmail on a gateway
and sits between the external sendmail box and internal exchange bridgehead
server.  So there isn't any delivery to the local system.

The only email it gets is inbound at the moment and we're looking to get rid
of complication and go back to two boxes.  I did a test which looked like
you guys are right about procmail, but testing is very limited due to the
config I currently have.  It's just confusing when set up as a gateway.

-Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: Stephane Lentz [mailto:Stephane.Lentz@ansf.alcatel.fr]
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 2:50 PM
To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] separate inbound and outbound


On Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 02:26:34PM -0700, Jason Qualkenbush wrote:
> 
> Is there is way to separate inbound and outbound email so that I only
check
> for spam on inbound mail and ignore the outbound?
> 
> I'm using Sendmail and running procmail on the gateway to call
spamassassin.
> I know it more of a sendmail question, but my google searches have only
> turned up people trying to log all inbound and outbound email.
> 
Using procmail, SpamAssassin doesn't get called for outgoing email
(messages sent to other machines). 
Procmail=Local Delivery Agent => inbound traffic to LOCAL machine.

SL/
---
Stephane Lentz / Alcanet International - Internet Services


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1597.e85265a0da41a962b316d117548bb3ea.eml000066400000000000000000000142161444326627400311160ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Tue Sep 24 23:33:11 2002
Return-Path: 
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Received: from localhost (jalapeno [127.0.0.1])
	by jmason.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EDC616F03
	for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2002 23:33:10 +0100 (IST)
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	for jm@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 24 Sep 2002 23:33:10 +0100 (IST)
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    Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:25:53 -0700
From: "Steve Thomas" 
To: "Cheryl L. Southard" ,
	
Subject: RE: [SAtalk] user_prefs ignored
Message-Id: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
X-Msmail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0)
Importance: Normal
X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
In-Reply-To: <20020924212731.GA24786@deimos.caltech.edu>
X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-milter (http://amavis.org/)
Sender: spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net
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X-Original-Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:25:54 -0700
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 15:25:54 -0700
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.1 required=5.0
	tests=AWL,FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,IN_REP_TO,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

This is just an semi-educated guess - if I'm wrong, someone please correct
me!

Spamd setuid's to the user running spamc. Since you're calling spamc from a
global procmailrc file, it's being run as root (most likely). If called as
root, spamd won't open user_prefs files.

>>From the spamc man page:

       -u username
           This argument has been semi-obsoleted.  To have spamd use
           per-user-config files, run spamc as the user whose config
           files spamd should load.  If you're running spamc as some
           other user though (eg. root, mail, nobody, cyrus, etc.)
           then you can still use this flag.


The solution is to set DROPPRIVS=yes in /etc/procmailrc, just before running
spamc. From the procmailrc man page:

       DROPPRIVS   If set to `yes' procmail will drop all privileges
                   it might have had (suid or sgid).  This  is  only
                   useful  if  you  want  to guarantee that the bottom
                   half of the /etc/procmailrc file is executed on
                   behalf of the recipient.


I hope that helps, and I also hope it's right!

St-


| -----Original Message-----
| From: spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net
| [mailto:spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net]On Behalf Of
| Cheryl L. Southard
| Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 2:28 PM
| To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
| Subject: [SAtalk] user_prefs ignored
|
|
| Hi All,
|
| I am running SpamAssassin 2.41 with procmail as my local delivery agent
| with sendmail.  I use spamc/spamd so that it runs site-wide from
| /etc/procmailrc.
|
| spamd is run as root with the flags "-d -a -c", and spamc isn't run with
| any flags.
|
| When I was testing the program, I deployed spamc from my personal
| ~/.procmailrc file, my ~/.spamassassin/user_prefs file was read each time.
| I can see this because I have a non-default "required_hits" value which
| gets reported in every e-mail on the "X-Spam-Status" line.
|
| Now that I run spamc from the global /etc/procmailrc file, my
| ~/.spamassassin/user_prefs file is no longer being read or processed from
| e-mails from outside computers.  The "required_hits" value gets set back
| to the one in /etc/mail/spamassassin/local.cf.  However, if I send local
| e-mail, my user_prefs file is read and processed correctly.
|
| Does anyone know how to fix this problem?  if this is a spamassassin or
| procmail bug?
|
| Thanks,
|
| Cheryl
|
| --
| Cheryl Southard
| cld@astro.caltech.edu
|
|
| -------------------------------------------------------
| This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
| Welcome to geek heaven.
| http://thinkgeek.com/sf
| _______________________________________________
| Spamassassin-talk mailing list
| Spamassassin-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
| https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/spamassassin-talk
|



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1598.d9a96d6e7aa7c5a7001cf43ec39f44f6.eml000066400000000000000000000036461444326627400313740ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: quinlan@pathname.com  Thu Sep 26 10:59:48 2002
Return-Path: 
Delivered-To: yyyy@localhost.example.com
Received: from localhost (jalapeno [127.0.0.1])
	by jmason.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0CCE16F16
	for ; Thu, 26 Sep 2002 10:59:47 +0100 (IST)
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	by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0)
	for jm@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 26 Sep 2002 10:59:47 +0100 (IST)
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    (adsl-216-103-211-240.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [216.103.211.240]) by
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    ; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 21:53:42 +0100
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    (Debian)) id 17uJAn-0006v7-00; Wed, 25 Sep 2002 13:54:17 -0700
To: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
Cc: Theo Van Dinter ,
	Spamassassin Devel List 
Subject: Re: [SAdev] Have mass-check remove X-Spam-* headers?
References: <20020925163306.98BD616F18@example.com>
From: Daniel Quinlan 
Date: 25 Sep 2002 13:54:17 -0700
In-Reply-To: yyyy@example.com's message of "Wed, 25 Sep 2002 17:32:59 +0100"
Message-Id: 
Lines: 15
X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.3 required=5.0
	tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,
	      REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

jm@jmason.org (Justin Mason) writes:

> except for 1 thing: defanged MIME messages.  that's a big problem.
> but if you didn't just *remove* the headers and instead reverted
> back to the X-Spam-Prev versions, it'd more-or-less work.
> 
> (BTW fixed the downloads page ;)

&check now un-defangs MIME -- it was screwing up some of my mass-check
results (where SA-markup was present, yes).

If there ever was a warning about SA-markup in mass-check, it never
worked for me.

Dan


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1599.1f738c1f2512f6179f1d94e2949cce00.eml000066400000000000000000000070231444326627400310650ustar00rootroot00000000000000Replied: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 11:37:44 +0100
Replied: Doug Crompton 
Replied: SpamAssassin-Talk list 
From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep 26 11:10:38 2002
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From: Doug Crompton 
To: SpamAssassin-Talk list 
Message-Id: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: [SAtalk] Razor problem
Sender: spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net
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X-Original-Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 01:05:28 -0400 (EDT)
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X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.9 required=5.0
	tests=KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,USER_AGENT_PINE
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

I just picked up Razor SDK 2.03 and  2.14 agents from the the razor site.
I am using SuSe 7.3 - intalled SDK with no problems. All tests passed.

When I try to make the 2.14 agents I get all kinds of errors. In
particuliar it says the net::dns is missing. But it seems to be there. The
SDK test passes it.

Any help would be appreciated.

Doug



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1600.7d1caa5855ff06f37269178401aff693.eml000066400000000000000000000060311444326627400310470ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: easmith@beatrice.rutgers.edu  Thu Sep 26 16:29:49 2002
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From: "Allen Smith" 
Message-Id: <10209260905.ZM2657541@puck2.rutgers.edu>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2002 09:05:08 -0400
In-Reply-To: Daniel Quinlan 
    "Re: GA Development (was Re: [SAdev] [Bug 1030] NO_INVENTORY dangerous)"
    (Sep 25,  7:35pm)
References: <20020925231047.137DE9CE4C@belphegore.hughes-family.org>
    <10209251923.ZM2637799@puck2.rutgers.edu>
    <15762.18084.872694.456893@proton.pathname.com>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail)
To: Daniel Quinlan 
Subject: Re: GA Development (was Re: [SAdev] [Bug 1030] NO_INVENTORY
    dangerous)
Cc: yyyy@example.com, spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-2.7 required=5.0
	tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,
	      REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,SIGNATURE_SHORT_DENSE
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

On Sep 25,  7:35pm, Daniel Quinlan wrote:
> Allen Smith  writes:
> 
> > Well, I have been doing a bit of fiddling with the GA. I don't have
> > a _large_ corpus practically available to me (or processable within
> > reasonable processor time - I can justify the GA fiddling part as
> > being part of my research, but not the mail processing...), so in
> > order to test out my changes someone needs to send me a copy of the
> > "tmp/scores.h" and "tmp/tests.h" that get generated prior to the GA
> > going into action.
> 
> Why not start with mass-check corpus results? It's much easier to get
> those

Ah. As in getting a directory listing of the corpus server and doing some
downloads? OK, done.

> and you can create your own tmp/scores.h and tmp/tests.h.

Good point. Will report back on my results.

	-Allen

-- 
Allen Smith			http://cesario.rutgers.edu/easmith/
September 11, 2001		A Day That Shall Live In Infamy II
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1601.e586e85a3d75cc48f9b913f244d52632.eml000066400000000000000000000065261444326627400310660ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-commits-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep 26 20:43:38 2002
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1602.a6d0709065f52668e973ba89f32def7a.eml000066400000000000000000000117321444326627400311430ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Tue Oct  1 11:01:27 2002
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Cc: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] URL blacklist
In-Reply-To: Message from SpamTalk  of
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    <0FCA00EE04CDD3119C910050041FBA703A68A0@ilpostoffice.main.net56.net>
From: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
X-GPG-Key-Fingerprint: 0A48 2D8B 0B52 A87D 0E8A  6ADD 4137 1B50 6E58 EF0A
X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
X-Habeas-Swe-2: brightly anticipated
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SpamTalk said:
> Probably better than the "spam phrases" approach would be the database
> approach as currently used for white/black listing.
> Any way to tie that to an XML retrieval from a list of central repositories?
> Does mySQL do replication? A properly done XML would let us eyeball the list
> as well as use it to keep the database up to date.
> Another idea: could we synthesize an RBL so that
> http://www.spammer.com/spam/web/bug/ becomes spam.web.bug.x.www.spammer.com
> for a reverse lookup? It is going to get tricky, how to specify a randomized
> intermediate directory?

A good plan, needs an implementation though: 

        http://bl.reynolds.net.au/ksi/email/

hmm. seems down to me.  Basically it's a plan to store hash sums of
URLs/phone numbers found in spam in a DNSBL, for apps like SpamAssassin to
look up.  A little like spamcop's "spamvertized URL" list...

--j.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1603.c0963552df600d961b960f710d6ffaa7.eml000066400000000000000000000060431444326627400311210ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: felicity@kluge.net  Sun Sep 22 21:55:57 2002
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Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 12:38:20 -0400
From: Theo Van Dinter 
To: Justin Mason 
Cc: Spamassassin List 
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] telesp.net.br?
Message-Id: <20020922163819.GB25030@kluge.net>
References: <20020922133353.193AC16F03@example.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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    protocol="application/pgp-signature";
    boundary="qcHopEYAB45HaUaB"
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	      QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,USER_AGENT,
	      USER_AGENT_MUTT
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 


--qcHopEYAB45HaUaB
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Sun, Sep 22, 2002 at 02:33:48PM +0100, Justin Mason wrote:
> I seem to be getting a *lot* of spam relayed via these guys recently.
> Can others confirm this?
>=20
> if it's the case, I'll come up with a forged-hostname test for it.

I do get some from them, typically some dsl.telesp.net.br host:

% grep -c telesp.net.br *| sort -rn
spammers-2002-09:59
spammers-2002-08:64
spammers-2002-07:23
spammers-2002-06:13
spammers-2002-05:4
spammers-2002-04:2

Definitely increasing per month.  Percentage-wise:  2002-09 has 1212
spams in it, so 59/1212 is about 4.8%.  Last month was 3.6%.

--=20
Randomly Generated Tagline:
I don't believe I've ever cuddled my elses.
              -- Larry Wall in <199806221550.IAA07171@wall.org>

--qcHopEYAB45HaUaB
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
Content-Disposition: inline

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE9jfH7AuOQUeWAs2MRAkcuAKDZpe2Imevx9OkqkCh1rKh2IXvv6ACfZ/kn
aBRBTJx/PNPOZg5GNPk5b/s=
=mUje
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--qcHopEYAB45HaUaB--


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1604.051f662e3490b712974e5af2cc90043a.eml000066400000000000000000000031511444326627400307450ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: quinlan@pathname.com  Fri Sep 20 11:28:07 2002
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To: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
Cc: Matt Kettler ,
	SpamAssassin-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAdev] phew!
References: <20020919113604.D475F16F1C@example.com>
From: Daniel Quinlan 
Date: 19 Sep 2002 14:31:00 -0700
In-Reply-To: yyyy@example.com's message of "Thu, 19 Sep 2002 12:35:59 +0100"
Message-Id: 
Lines: 8
X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.9 required=5.0
	tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,
	      REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES
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jm@jmason.org (Justin Mason) writes:

> Yes -- 50% of the entire set for training and 50% for evaluation.

Once you've settled on the final method for any one release, why not
use 100% of the data for a final run?
 
Dan


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1605.95c19e87a7c394abe0e459ba511935e5.eml000066400000000000000000000057401444326627400311410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: quinlan@pathname.com  Wed Oct  2 11:43:09 2002
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To: Theo Van Dinter 
Cc: Justin Mason ,
	Spamassassin Devel List 
Subject: Re: [SAdev] Re: [Razor-users] Mutating spam
References: 
    <5.1.1.6.0.20021001095106.01ac9760@192.168.50.2>
    <20021001194648.DBAAC16F16@jmason.org> <20021001205821.GN29097@kluge.net>
From: Daniel Quinlan 
Date: 01 Oct 2002 19:22:16 -0700
In-Reply-To: Theo Van Dinter's message of "Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:58:21 -0400"
Message-Id: 
Lines: 34
X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-74.6 required=5.0
	tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,
	      REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,T_QUOTE_TWICE_2,
	      USER_AGENT_GNUS_XM
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Justin Mason wrote:

>> Interestingly, some of these seem (apparently) to be encrypted versions of
>> the recipient email address.  To see this, ROT13 yr address and grep your
>> spam archive.  There'll be at least 1 hit.

Theo Van Dinter  writes:

> Hmmm.  I'm surprised at these results, especially since I should be
> seeing some false positives...  Not a lot of matches though. :(

Still worthwhile -- 1.257% is not that bad.  :-)

My results:

  OVERALL%   SPAM% NONSPAM%     S/O    RANK   SCORE  NAME
    11774     4079     7695    0.35    0.00    0.00  (all messages)
  100.000   34.644   65.356    0.35    0.00    0.00  (all messages as %)
    0.195    0.564    0.000    1.00    0.75    1.00  T_ROT13_EMAIL_3
    0.161    0.466    0.000    1.00    0.73    1.00  T_ROT13_EMAIL_2
    0.161    0.466    0.000    1.00    0.73    1.00  T_ROT13_EMAIL

The interesting thing is that these hits all seem to be rot13 versions
of the To: address.  If we ever start getting FPs (or if anyone is
worried), we could make it an eval test for rot13 of the To: address
(turning non-word characters into "." characters in the regular
expression).

At the same time, it might be worth testing for username in HTML
comments.  I found some  types in HTML comments, but I
haven't seen enough hits so far to bother (however, I did add a really
good test for email addresses in comments).

Dan


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1606.3dc1298108c79723735fefb01991f22d.eml000066400000000000000000000107761444326627400310030ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-commits-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Wed Oct  2 16:02:39 2002
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To: spamassassin-commits@example.sourceforge.net
Message-Id: 
From: Justin Mason 
Subject: [SACVS] CVS: spamassassin/lib/Mail SpamAssassin.pm,1.115.2.11,1.115.2.12
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	tests=AWL,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,PATCH_UNIFIED_DIFF
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Update of /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/lib/Mail
In directory usw-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv4019/lib/Mail

Modified Files:
      Tag: b2_4_0
	SpamAssassin.pm 
Log Message:
fixed bug 1033: -R and -W were not respecting auto_whitelist_path

Index: SpamAssassin.pm
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/lib/Mail/SpamAssassin.pm,v
retrieving revision 1.115.2.11
retrieving revision 1.115.2.12
diff -b -w -u -d -r1.115.2.11 -r1.115.2.12
--- SpamAssassin.pm	24 Sep 2002 18:51:37 -0000	1.115.2.11
+++ SpamAssassin.pm	2 Oct 2002 13:19:28 -0000	1.115.2.12
@@ -696,7 +696,13 @@
 }
 
 ###########################################################################
-# non-public methods.
+
+=item $f->init ($use_user_prefs)
+
+Read and parse the current configuration. C<$use_user_prefs> can
+be C<0> (do not read user preferences) or C<1> (do).
+
+=cut
 
 sub init {
   my ($self, $use_user_pref) = @_;
@@ -767,6 +773,9 @@
 
   # TODO -- open DNS cache etc. if necessary
 }
+
+###########################################################################
+# non-public methods.
 
 sub read_cf {
   my ($self, $path, $desc) = @_;



-------------------------------------------------------
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1607.d2f250ddf3a443a4a10c5ea9825da694.eml000066400000000000000000000102671444326627400312520ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-commits-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Wed Oct  2 16:02:40 2002
Return-Path: 
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To: spamassassin-commits@example.sourceforge.net
Message-Id: 
From: Justin Mason 
Subject: [SACVS] CVS: spamassassin spamassassin.raw,1.68.2.12,1.68.2.13
Sender: spamassassin-commits-admin@example.sourceforge.net
Errors-To: spamassassin-commits-admin@example.sourceforge.net
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	tests=AWL,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,PATCH_UNIFIED_DIFF
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Update of /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin
In directory usw-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv4019

Modified Files:
      Tag: b2_4_0
	spamassassin.raw 
Log Message:
fixed bug 1033: -R and -W were not respecting auto_whitelist_path

Index: spamassassin.raw
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/spamassassin.raw,v
retrieving revision 1.68.2.12
retrieving revision 1.68.2.13
diff -b -w -u -d -r1.68.2.12 -r1.68.2.13
--- spamassassin.raw	24 Sep 2002 18:51:37 -0000	1.68.2.12
+++ spamassassin.raw	2 Oct 2002 13:19:28 -0000	1.68.2.13
@@ -216,6 +216,9 @@
   if ($@) { warn $@; }
 
   if ($doing_whitelist_operation) {
+    # read the config!
+    $spamtest->init (1);
+
     if ($opt{'add-to-whitelist'}) {
       $spamtest->add_all_addresses_to_whitelist ($mail);
     } elsif ($opt{'remove-from-whitelist'}) {



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1608.aeda79b0cdb36bdde6d6b275b7484a89.eml000066400000000000000000000154211444326627400315140ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-commits-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Wed Oct  2 16:02:41 2002
Return-Path: 
Delivered-To: yyyy@localhost.example.com
Received: from localhost (jalapeno [127.0.0.1])
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To: spamassassin-commits@example.sourceforge.net
Message-Id: 
From: Justin Mason 
Subject: [SACVS] CVS: spamassassin/t db_based_whitelist.t,1.6.4.1,1.6.4.2
    db_based_whitelist_ips.t,1.1.2.1,1.1.2.2
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	tests=AWL,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,PATCH_UNIFIED_DIFF
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Update of /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/t
In directory usw-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv4019/t

Modified Files:
      Tag: b2_4_0
	db_based_whitelist.t db_based_whitelist_ips.t 
Log Message:
fixed bug 1033: -R and -W were not respecting auto_whitelist_path

Index: db_based_whitelist.t
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/t/db_based_whitelist.t,v
retrieving revision 1.6.4.1
retrieving revision 1.6.4.2
diff -b -w -u -d -r1.6.4.1 -r1.6.4.2
--- db_based_whitelist.t	24 Sep 2002 18:51:38 -0000	1.6.4.1
+++ db_based_whitelist.t	2 Oct 2002 13:19:28 -0000	1.6.4.2
@@ -2,7 +2,7 @@
 
 use lib '.'; use lib 't';
 use SATest; sa_t_init("db_based_whitelist");
-use Test; BEGIN { plan tests => 3 };
+use Test; BEGIN { plan tests => 8 };
 
 # ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
@@ -16,17 +16,17 @@
 %patterns = %is_nonspam_patterns;
 $scr_test_args = "-M Mail::SpamAssassin::DBBasedAddrList";
 
-sarun ("--remove-addr-from-whitelist whitelist_test\@whitelist.spamassassin.taint.org", \&patterns_run_cb);
+ok (sarun ("--remove-addr-from-whitelist whitelist_test\@whitelist.spamassassin.taint.org", \&patterns_run_cb));
 
 # 3 times, to get into the whitelist:
-sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb);
-sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb);
-sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb);
+ok (sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb));
+ok (sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb));
+ok (sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb));
 
 # Now check
 ok (sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb));
 ok_all_patterns();
 
 %patterns = %is_spam_patterns;
-sarun ("-L -a -t < data/spam/004", \&patterns_run_cb);
+ok (sarun ("-L -a -t < data/spam/004", \&patterns_run_cb));
 ok_all_patterns();

Index: db_based_whitelist_ips.t
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/t/db_based_whitelist_ips.t,v
retrieving revision 1.1.2.1
retrieving revision 1.1.2.2
diff -b -w -u -d -r1.1.2.1 -r1.1.2.2
--- db_based_whitelist_ips.t	24 Sep 2002 18:51:38 -0000	1.1.2.1
+++ db_based_whitelist_ips.t	2 Oct 2002 13:19:29 -0000	1.1.2.2
@@ -2,7 +2,7 @@
 
 use lib '.'; use lib 't';
 use SATest; sa_t_init("db_based_whitelist_ips");
-use Test; BEGIN { plan tests => 3 };
+use Test; BEGIN { plan tests => 8 };
 
 # ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
@@ -15,18 +15,18 @@
 
 %patterns = %is_nonspam_patterns;
 
-sarun ("--remove-addr-from-whitelist whitelist_test\@whitelist.spamassassin.taint.org", \&patterns_run_cb);
+ok (sarun ("--remove-addr-from-whitelist whitelist_test\@whitelist.spamassassin.taint.org", \&patterns_run_cb));
 
 # 3 times, to get into the whitelist:
-sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb);
-sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb);
-sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb);
+ok (sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb));
+ok (sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb));
+ok (sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb));
 
 # Now check
 ok (sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb));
 ok_all_patterns();
 
 %patterns = %is_spam_patterns;
-sarun ("-L -a -t < data/spam/007", \&patterns_run_cb);
+ok (sarun ("-L -a -t < data/spam/007", \&patterns_run_cb));
 ok_all_patterns();
 



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1609.d3849c49c9377d824b5ab007f36e96f8.eml000066400000000000000000000101751444326627400311020ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-commits-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Wed Oct  2 16:02:44 2002
Return-Path: 
Delivered-To: yyyy@localhost.example.com
Received: from localhost (jalapeno [127.0.0.1])
	by jmason.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C231F16F69
	for ; Wed,  2 Oct 2002 16:01:11 +0100 (IST)
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To: spamassassin-commits@example.sourceforge.net
Message-Id: 
From: Justin Mason 
Subject: [SACVS] CVS: spamassassin spamassassin.raw,1.76,1.77
Sender: spamassassin-commits-admin@example.sourceforge.net
Errors-To: spamassassin-commits-admin@example.sourceforge.net
X-Beenthere: spamassassin-commits@example.sourceforge.net
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	tests=AWL,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,PATCH_UNIFIED_DIFF
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Update of /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin
In directory usw-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv4429

Modified Files:
	spamassassin.raw 
Log Message:
fixed bug 1033: -R and -W were not respecting auto_whitelist_path

Index: spamassassin.raw
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/spamassassin.raw,v
retrieving revision 1.76
retrieving revision 1.77
diff -b -w -u -d -r1.76 -r1.77
--- spamassassin.raw	26 Sep 2002 17:14:59 -0000	1.76
+++ spamassassin.raw	2 Oct 2002 13:20:32 -0000	1.77
@@ -218,6 +218,9 @@
   if ($@) { warn $@; }
 
   if ($doing_whitelist_operation) {
+    # read the config!
+    $spamtest->init (1);
+
     if ($opt{'add-to-whitelist'}) {
       $spamtest->add_all_addresses_to_whitelist ($mail);
     } elsif ($opt{'remove-from-whitelist'}) {



-------------------------------------------------------
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1610.adfdd3cbb3bad46220490cf0d9c26396.eml000066400000000000000000000114121444326627400313750ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-commits-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Wed Oct  2 16:02:45 2002
Return-Path: 
Delivered-To: yyyy@localhost.example.com
Received: from localhost (jalapeno [127.0.0.1])
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To: spamassassin-commits@example.sourceforge.net
Message-Id: 
From: Justin Mason 
Subject: [SACVS] CVS: spamassassin/rules 50_scores.cf,1.226,1.227
    60_whitelist.cf,1.31,1.32
Sender: spamassassin-commits-admin@example.sourceforge.net
Errors-To: spamassassin-commits-admin@example.sourceforge.net
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Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 06:20:35 -0700
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-64.9 required=5.0
	tests=AWL,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,PATCH_UNIFIED_DIFF
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Update of /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/rules
In directory usw-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv4429/rules

Modified Files:
	50_scores.cf 60_whitelist.cf 
Log Message:
fixed bug 1033: -R and -W were not respecting auto_whitelist_path

Index: 50_scores.cf
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/rules/50_scores.cf,v
retrieving revision 1.226
retrieving revision 1.227
diff -b -w -u -d -r1.226 -r1.227
--- 50_scores.cf	1 Oct 2002 09:53:43 -0000	1.226
+++ 50_scores.cf	2 Oct 2002 13:20:32 -0000	1.227
@@ -611,7 +611,7 @@
 score PORN_GALLERIES                 1.000
 score RATWARE_LC_OUTLOOK             1.000
 score SHORT_RECEIVED_LINE            4.300
-score SAFEGUARD_NOTICE               -3.300
+score SAFEGUARD_NOTICE               3.300
 score MAILMAN_CONFIRM                -1.000
 score SIGNIFICANT                    1.000
 score RATWARE_DIFFOND                2.200

Index: 60_whitelist.cf
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/rules/60_whitelist.cf,v
retrieving revision 1.31
retrieving revision 1.32
diff -b -w -u -d -r1.31 -r1.32
--- 60_whitelist.cf	11 Sep 2002 21:31:35 -0000	1.31
+++ 60_whitelist.cf	2 Oct 2002 13:20:33 -0000	1.32
@@ -65,3 +65,4 @@
 
 # Friends re-united (popular UK old-school-network)
 whitelist_from_rcvd *@friendsreunited.co.uk                 friendsreunited.co.uk
+



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1611.e83818d7655d711bee3f320bd19e6f6d.eml000066400000000000000000000152771444326627400312240ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-commits-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Wed Oct  2 16:02:46 2002
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Received: from localhost (jalapeno [127.0.0.1])
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To: spamassassin-commits@example.sourceforge.net
Message-Id: 
From: Justin Mason 
Subject: [SACVS] CVS: spamassassin/t db_based_whitelist.t,1.7,1.8
    db_based_whitelist_ips.t,1.2,1.3
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Update of /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/t
In directory usw-pr-cvs1:/tmp/cvs-serv4429/t

Modified Files:
	db_based_whitelist.t db_based_whitelist_ips.t 
Log Message:
fixed bug 1033: -R and -W were not respecting auto_whitelist_path

Index: db_based_whitelist.t
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/t/db_based_whitelist.t,v
retrieving revision 1.7
retrieving revision 1.8
diff -b -w -u -d -r1.7 -r1.8
--- db_based_whitelist.t	26 Sep 2002 17:15:04 -0000	1.7
+++ db_based_whitelist.t	2 Oct 2002 13:20:33 -0000	1.8
@@ -2,7 +2,7 @@
 
 use lib '.'; use lib 't';
 use SATest; sa_t_init("db_based_whitelist");
-use Test; BEGIN { plan tests => 3 };
+use Test; BEGIN { plan tests => 8 };
 
 # ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
@@ -16,17 +16,17 @@
 %patterns = %is_nonspam_patterns;
 $scr_test_args = "-M Mail::SpamAssassin::DBBasedAddrList";
 
-sarun ("--remove-addr-from-whitelist whitelist_test\@whitelist.spamassassin.taint.org", \&patterns_run_cb);
+ok (sarun ("--remove-addr-from-whitelist whitelist_test\@whitelist.spamassassin.taint.org", \&patterns_run_cb));
 
 # 3 times, to get into the whitelist:
-sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb);
-sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb);
-sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb);
+ok (sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb));
+ok (sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb));
+ok (sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb));
 
 # Now check
 ok (sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb));
 ok_all_patterns();
 
 %patterns = %is_spam_patterns;
-sarun ("-L -a -t < data/spam/004", \&patterns_run_cb);
+ok (sarun ("-L -a -t < data/spam/004", \&patterns_run_cb));
 ok_all_patterns();

Index: db_based_whitelist_ips.t
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/spamassassin/spamassassin/t/db_based_whitelist_ips.t,v
retrieving revision 1.2
retrieving revision 1.3
diff -b -w -u -d -r1.2 -r1.3
--- db_based_whitelist_ips.t	26 Sep 2002 17:15:04 -0000	1.2
+++ db_based_whitelist_ips.t	2 Oct 2002 13:20:33 -0000	1.3
@@ -2,7 +2,7 @@
 
 use lib '.'; use lib 't';
 use SATest; sa_t_init("db_based_whitelist_ips");
-use Test; BEGIN { plan tests => 3 };
+use Test; BEGIN { plan tests => 8 };
 
 # ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
@@ -15,18 +15,18 @@
 
 %patterns = %is_nonspam_patterns;
 
-sarun ("--remove-addr-from-whitelist whitelist_test\@whitelist.spamassassin.taint.org", \&patterns_run_cb);
+ok (sarun ("--remove-addr-from-whitelist whitelist_test\@whitelist.spamassassin.taint.org", \&patterns_run_cb));
 
 # 3 times, to get into the whitelist:
-sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb);
-sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb);
-sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb);
+ok (sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb));
+ok (sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb));
+ok (sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb));
 
 # Now check
 ok (sarun ("-L -a -t < data/nice/002", \&patterns_run_cb));
 ok_all_patterns();
 
 %patterns = %is_spam_patterns;
-sarun ("-L -a -t < data/spam/007", \&patterns_run_cb);
+ok (sarun ("-L -a -t < data/spam/007", \&patterns_run_cb));
 ok_all_patterns();
 



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1612.17083808deba0447726df856cbb574aa.eml000066400000000000000000000106741444326627400311260ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Oct  4 11:07:03 2002
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Cc: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] 2.42: est release?
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     of
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From: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
X-GPG-Key-Fingerprint: 0A48 2D8B 0B52 A87D 0E8A  6ADD 4137 1B50 6E58 EF0A
X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
X-Habeas-Swe-2: brightly anticipated
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Malte S. Stretz said:
> 1046 is fixed. But what about
> 1011 (add a notice about IRIX and -m to the docs),
> 1031 (cygwin's EXE_EXT),
> 1043 (a cosmetic but rather disturbing one ;-),

all now fixed!

> 1004 (TO_MALFORMED borken),

WONTFIX ;)

> 1006 (packaging related)?

eh, will leave this for 2.50. ;)

OK, if there's nothing moderately serious shown up tonight, I'll release
it tomorrow AM (GMT).

--j.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1613.19c5758c67f8ba03cd7412c56c979390.eml000066400000000000000000000075451444326627400310140ustar00rootroot00000000000000Replied: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 11:24:17 +0100
Replied: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Oct  4 11:07:38 2002
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From: Duncan Findlay 
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Subject: Re: [SAdev] Re: Web subscription for spamassassin package
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> eh? any reason why?  wasn't causing any trouble for me, and
> seems like a good idea.

Because every time someone submitted a bug, they'd get a response
saying "Message is held for moderator because of implicit message
destination" or something like that. It annoyed users, it annoyed me,
and Justin, you never actually got around to accepting the messages :-)

-- 
Duncan Findlay


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1614.6923314b59e82a205ba3f227deea1d59.eml000066400000000000000000000077161444326627400311240ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Oct  4 11:07:05 2002
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Subject: [SAdev] [Bug 1049] Pathname for "triplets.txt" is incorrect.
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http://www.hughes-family.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1049

felicity@kluge.net changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|NEW                         |RESOLVED
         Resolution|                            |FIXED



------- Additional Comments From felicity@kluge.net  2002-10-03 13:26 -------
Hmmm, my last message doesn't seem to have made it into bugzilla yet.

I've committed a patch to fix this problem in both HEAD and b2_4_0.  The last
message explains what the problem was and what the patch does to fix it.



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1615.bb0721aadf9f170a979323adf11c22d5.eml000066400000000000000000000107241444326627400312420ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Oct  4 11:07:07 2002
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http://www.hughes-family.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1006

jm@jmason.org changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|NEW                         |ASSIGNED



------- Additional Comments From jm@jmason.org  2002-10-03 13:29 -------
1. Use of $Config is gradually being removed, thankfully.  I don't want
to see any of that stuff in there if it acn be avoided, as different
perl versions jsut vary so much in that stuff.

2. perl has no concept of where the rules could be -- unless they're in
the perl libdir (/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.x.x/foo).  Perl does not
know about the existence of /usr/share or /etc.  Used to use /usr/lib/perl5
for storing rules, and it was actually *much worse* than it is now. So
we need an out-of-band way to tell SA where to find this stuff. that's
the problem!

3. try "perl Makefile.PL < /dev/null" to allow bots to build it.

I think I might be missing some details of what you're peeved about,
though... could you elaborate specifically?




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1616.cedc09d67c941d1541cf598e0007509e.eml000066400000000000000000000142771444326627400311410ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Oct  4 11:07:08 2002
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------- Additional Comments From spamassassin-contrib@msquadrat.de  2002-10-03 13:57 -------
> I've thought about this and PM_FILTER needs to die. I've now tried  
> multiple ways to make it just transparently work on 5.00503 and failed.  
> If anyone has any bright ideas please jump in. 
>  
> You see anyone upgrading from the CPAN shell will get a failure on the line: 
>  
>    use ExtUtils::MakeMaker 5.45; 
 
Quite some modules from CPAN do have a line like this nowadays (I think or 
read so somewhere, respectively). And the Perl error message is very clear: 
"ExtUtils::MakeMaker version 5.45 required--this is only version 5.4302 at 
Makefile.PL line 2." 
 
> Because it never gets chance to reach a "WriteMakefile" line with a  
> PREREQ_PM => { ExtUtils::MakeMaker => 5.45 } option. So the CPAN shell  
> can't automatically upgrade this module. I cannot think of any way  
> around this. 
 
I could think of a solution: We could remove the "use" line and add the 
version to PREREQ_PM. After WriteMakefile() we could add the lines 
  require ExtUtils::MakeMaker; 
  ExtUtils::MakeMaker->VERSION(5.45); 
to do per hand what 'use ExtUtils::MakeMaker 5.45' does automagically; `perl 
Makefile.PL` will die with a "Uncaught exception from user code: 
ExtUtils::MakeMaker version 5.45 required--this is only version 5.4302 at 
Makefile.PL line 103." there but we've got a Makefile. But I don't know if 
CPAN will run the make anyway... 
 
> To add insult to injury, the PM_FILTER part gets run during pm_to_blib,  
> which would be fine, except ExtUtils::MakeMaker doesn't let you write a  
> MY::pm_to_blib - it's non-overridable! So even though we could  
> potentially copy the 5.45 ExtUtils::Install::pm_to_blib code somewhere  
> into the spamassassin codebase (I tried that first), we can't cause the  
> Makefile to call our code :-( 
 
We could call the preprocessor on install time. That's not a very clean 
approach but could work. 
 
We can also overwrite pm_to_blib in the Makefile directly per postamble. We 
already have a useless line "pm_to_blib: spamassassin doc/.made" there. Adding 
some commands in this section gives some make warnings ("Makefile:933: 
warning: overriding commands for target `pm_to_blib' Makefile:877: warning: 
ignoring old commands for target `pm_to_blib'") but does work. Not a very good 
solution either. 
 
> So I'm *strongly* against the current use of ExtUtils::MakeMaker 5.45  
> usage (if this were an Apache project this would be my veto vote), and  
> really hope we can find another way. 
 
The "use MakeMaker::..." error message is IMHO quite clear, so I think it's ok 
to require the user to do a manual update of ExtUtils::MakeMaker before the SA 
installation. But that's just my opinion ;-) 
 
I'll ask on makemaker@perl.org for the best solution. They should know. 



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------- Additional Comments From spamassassin-contrib@msquadrat.de  2002-10-03 13:57 -------
A solution could be the preprocessor in combination with PM_FILTER -- if we 
get the ExtUtils::MakeMaker versioning stuff right (see bug 1046). 



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spamassassin-contrib@msquadrat.de changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|NEW                         |RESOLVED
         Resolution|                            |WONTFIX



------- Additional Comments From spamassassin-contrib@msquadrat.de  2002-10-03 14:16 -------
I think it's ok to close this one? Comment is a valid, albeit seldom used RFC 
2822 header... 



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spamassassin-contrib@msquadrat.de changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|NEW                         |RESOLVED
         Resolution|                            |WONTFIX



------- Additional Comments From spamassassin-contrib@msquadrat.de  2002-10-03 14:17 -------
Relieving Dan ;-) 



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spamassassin-contrib@msquadrat.de changed:

           What    |Removed                     |Added
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Status|NEW                         |RESOLVED
         Resolution|                            |FIXED



------- Additional Comments From spamassassin-contrib@msquadrat.de  2002-10-03 14:21 -------
I think INVALID_MSGID does what this rule was supposed to do 



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Subject: [SAdev] [Bug 1052] New: bondedsender.com is a scam
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http://www.hughes-family.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1052

           Summary: bondedsender.com is a scam
           Product: Spamassassin
           Version: unspecified
          Platform: Other
               URL: http://www.bondedsender.com/
        OS/Version: other
            Status: NEW
          Severity: normal
          Priority: P2
         Component: Rules
        AssignedTo: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
        ReportedBy: friedman+spamassassin@splode.com


The default score for bondedsender-certified domains is -10, but I do not
believe they should be trusted and encourage you to change the default.

* I have been spammed by their customers.
* There is no documentation on their website about how I can complain about
  this and have their customers financially penalized for sending me unsolicited
  mail.
* What proof do any of us have that they really even do anything about it?
  Their contract is with their customers, not with us.

This is a scam!  Don't trust them!



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http://www.hughes-family.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1052





------- Additional Comments From rOD-spamassassin@arsecandle.org  2002-10-03 18:51 -------
Ignoring the conspiracy theories, can you supply examples of spam which was 
scored with RCVD_IN_BONDEDSENDER?  The only mail I have received which scored 
this were from Amazon.com.



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Subject: [SAdev] [Bug 1053] New: IMG tag based rules
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http://www.hughes-family.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1053

           Summary: IMG tag based rules
           Product: Spamassassin
           Version: unspecified
          Platform: Other
        OS/Version: other
            Status: NEW
          Severity: enhancement
          Priority: P2
         Component: Eval Tests
        AssignedTo: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
        ReportedBy: matt@nightrealms.com


Inspired by complaints about all-image or mostly-image spam that's
getting by SA, I've cooked up three sets of rules that analyze the use
of IMG tags in HTML: one that looks at the total area of all of the
images in the message (T_HTML_IMAGE_AREA*), one that looks at the
total number of images in the message (T_HTML_NUM_IMGS*), and one that
looks at the longest total run of consecutive images
(T_HTML_CONSEC_IMG*).

===============

The total area of all images is rather easy to compute: inside of
HTML::html_tests(), if an IMG tag has both the width and height
properties, then multiply them together and add the result to the
running total.

OVERALL%   SPAM% NONSPAM%     S/O    RANK   SCORE  NAME
  15113     4797    10316    0.32    0.00    0.00  (all messages)
100.000   31.741   68.259    0.32    0.00    0.00  (all messages as %)
  0.635    2.001    0.000    1.00    0.81    0.01  T_HTML_IMAGE_AREA14
  0.417    1.313    0.000    1.00    0.78    0.01  T_HTML_IMAGE_AREA15
  0.331    1.042    0.000    1.00    0.76    0.01  T_HTML_IMAGE_AREA07
  0.245    0.771    0.000    1.00    0.74    0.01  T_HTML_IMAGE_AREA10
  0.238    0.750    0.000    1.00    0.74    0.01  T_HTML_IMAGE_AREA02
  0.225    0.709    0.000    1.00    0.74    0.01  T_HTML_IMAGE_AREA16
  0.126    0.396    0.000    1.00    0.70    0.01  T_HTML_IMAGE_AREA18
  0.119    0.375    0.000    1.00    0.70    0.01  T_HTML_IMAGE_AREA19
  0.119    0.375    0.000    1.00    0.70    0.01  T_HTML_IMAGE_AREA17
  1.125    3.523    0.010    1.00    0.68    0.01  T_HTML_IMAGE_AREA12
  0.741    2.314    0.010    1.00    0.65    0.01  T_HTML_IMAGE_AREA13
  1.542    4.732    0.058    0.99    0.58    0.01  T_HTML_IMAGE_AREA11
  0.139    0.417    0.010    0.98    0.54    0.01  T_HTML_IMAGE_AREA08
  0.483    1.397    0.058    0.96    0.50    0.01  T_HTML_IMAGE_AREA03
  0.192    0.500    0.048    0.91    0.44    0.01  T_HTML_IMAGE_AREA06
  0.820    1.834    0.349    0.84    0.39    0.01  T_HTML_IMAGE_AREA04
  0.946    2.022    0.446    0.82    0.38    0.01  T_HTML_IMAGE_AREA01
  0.569    0.896    0.417    0.68    0.32    0.01  T_HTML_IMAGE_AREA05
  6.498    0.500    9.287    0.05    0.02    0.01  T_HTML_IMAGE_AREA09

Spam % of all rules with S/0 > 0.90: 20.615%

=============================

The total number of IMG tags is really easy to do.

  0.648    2.043    0.000    1.00    0.81    0.01  T_HTML_NUM_IMGS08
  0.609    1.918    0.000    1.00    0.80    0.01  T_HTML_NUM_IMGS09
  0.490    1.543    0.000    1.00    0.79    0.01  T_HTML_NUM_IMGS10
  0.119    0.375    0.000    1.00    0.70    0.01  T_HTML_NUM_IMGS14
  0.986    3.064    0.019    0.99    0.63    0.01  T_HTML_NUM_IMGS06
  2.303    7.150    0.048    0.99    0.62    0.01  T_HTML_NUM_IMGS11
  0.033    0.104    0.000    1.00    0.61    0.01  T_HTML_NUM_IMGS17
  0.787    2.439    0.019    0.99    0.61    0.01  T_HTML_NUM_IMGS12
  0.344    1.063    0.010    0.99    0.60    0.01  T_HTML_NUM_IMGS13
  0.020    0.063    0.000    1.00    0.58    0.01  T_HTML_NUM_IMGS20
  0.020    0.063    0.000    1.00    0.58    0.01  T_HTML_NUM_IMGS16
  0.860    2.627    0.039    0.99    0.57    0.01  T_HTML_NUM_IMGS05
  0.754    2.293    0.039    0.98    0.56    0.01  T_HTML_NUM_IMGS07
  0.013    0.042    0.000    1.00    0.55    0.01  T_HTML_NUM_IMGS18
  0.887    2.627    0.078    0.97    0.52    0.01  T_HTML_NUM_IMGS04
  1.356    3.711    0.262    0.93    0.47    0.01  T_HTML_NUM_IMGS03
  0.046    0.125    0.010    0.93    0.46    0.01  T_HTML_NUM_IMGS15
  6.061   10.256    4.110    0.71    0.34    0.01  T_HTML_NUM_IMGS01
  0.040    0.063    0.029    0.68    0.32    0.01  T_HTML_NUM_IMGS19
  6.233    4.753    6.921    0.41    0.22    0.01  T_HTML_NUM_IMGS02

Spam % of all rules with S/O > 0.90: 31.25%

=========================

I figured that spam that is made up of only images is going to only
have IMG tags interspersed with table, paragraph and linebreak tags,
and some whitespace, so there would be a lot of IMG tags with no plain
text (non-whitespace) between them.  So I defined consecutive IMG tags
to be ones with no text between them, and looked at the longest run of
consecutive IMGs within a message.

This one seems to do pretty good, because in my non-spam corpus
there's only a handful of messages with IMG runs larger than two.

  0.450    1.418    0.000    1.00    0.78    0.01  T_HTML_CONSEC_IMGS06
  0.232    0.730    0.000    1.00    0.74    0.01  T_HTML_CONSEC_IMGS08
  0.205    0.646    0.000    1.00    0.73    0.01  T_HTML_CONSEC_IMGS11
  1.813    5.691    0.010    1.00    0.71    0.01  T_HTML_CONSEC_IMGS02
  1.019    3.189    0.010    1.00    0.67    0.01  T_HTML_CONSEC_IMGS03
  0.768    2.397    0.010    1.00    0.66    0.01  T_HTML_CONSEC_IMGS05
  0.053    0.167    0.000    1.00    0.64    0.01  T_HTML_CONSEC_IMGS12
  1.006    3.127    0.019    0.99    0.63    0.01  T_HTML_CONSEC_IMGS04
  0.483    1.501    0.010    0.99    0.62    0.01  T_HTML_CONSEC_IMGS07
  0.020    0.063    0.000    1.00    0.58    0.01  T_HTML_CONSEC_IMGS13
  0.020    0.063    0.000    1.00    0.58    0.01  T_HTML_CONSEC_IMGS15
  1.032    3.148    0.048    0.98    0.57    0.01  T_HTML_CONSEC_IMGS10
  0.199    0.605    0.010    0.98    0.57    0.01  T_HTML_CONSEC_IMGS09
  0.013    0.042    0.000    1.00    0.55    0.01  T_HTML_CONSEC_IMGS17
  0.013    0.042    0.000    1.00    0.55    0.01  T_HTML_CONSEC_IMGS19
  0.007    0.021    0.000    1.00    0.51    0.01  T_HTML_CONSEC_IMGS14
  7.080    7.484    6.892    0.52    0.26    0.01  T_HTML_CONSEC_IMGS01
  0.000    0.000    0.000    0.00    0.00    0.01  T_HTML_CONSEC_IMGS16
  0.000    0.000    0.000    0.00    0.00    0.01  T_HTML_CONSEC_IMGS18

Spam % of all rules with S/O > 0.90: 22.85%

==========================

Next I'm going to see if there's any meta rules I can make that will
reduce the FP rate for low S/O rules.



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X-Spam-Level: 

http://www.hughes-family.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1053





------- Additional Comments From mgm@starlingtech.com  2002-10-03 21:46 -------
Looks great! One note: most "image-only" spam actually has some text (a few 
words at the top, a disclaimer at the end) so keep that in mind. The typical 
image spam that slips through SA seems to have a bit of text, one huge image, 
then a bit more.



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From: bugzilla-daemon@hughes-family.org
To: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
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Message-Id: <20021004045106.92EA622876@belphegore.hughes-family.org>
Subject: [SAdev] [Bug 1054] New: Split up FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS
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	tests=AWL,BUGZILLA_BUG,FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,
	      NO_REAL_NAME,T_NONSENSE_FROM_00_10
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

http://www.hughes-family.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=1054

           Summary: Split up FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS
           Product: Spamassassin
           Version: unspecified
          Platform: Other
        OS/Version: other
            Status: NEW
          Severity: enhancement
          Priority: P2
         Component: Rules
        AssignedTo: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
        ReportedBy: matt@nightrealms.com


The current FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS triggers on any from where the user name ends
in two or more digits.  I think this should be split up into different
numbers of trailing digits, so that rules with different S/O ratios can
get different scores.  So I've made test rules that look from From
names that end with two, three, four, or five digitis, and one for six or
more digitis; I also put in a test rule that looks for Froms that end in a
single digit, just the sake of completeness.

Here is what I got:

OVERALL%   SPAM% NONSPAM%     S/O    RANK   SCORE  NAME
  15113     4797    10316    0.32    0.00    0.00  (all messages)
100.000   31.741   68.259    0.32    0.00    0.00  (all messages as %)
  1.244    3.877    0.019    1.00    0.64    0.01  T_FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS6
  0.576    1.459    0.165    0.90    0.43    0.01  T_FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS5
  4.982   10.694    2.326    0.82    0.38    0.01  T_FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS4
  3.434    6.337    2.084    0.75    0.35    0.01  T_FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS3
  8.979   12.383    7.396    0.63    0.30    0.01  T_FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS2
  8.847    6.817    9.791    0.41    0.22    0.01  T_FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS1

I should note that I get rather bad S/O's for FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS, probably
because so much of my corpus is made up of Yahoo! Groups traffic, which
seems to have a lot of users that like sticking numbers at the ends of their
names.  Here is the normal stats for FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS:

  7.024   28.480    2.834    0.91    0.50    0.88  FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS

and my stats:

 19.228   34.793   11.991    0.74    0.35    0.88  FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS



------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
You are the assignee for the bug, or are watching the assignee.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1626.3c8c730d8741c9357da8984dd1057665.eml000066400000000000000000000071421444326627400307320ustar00rootroot00000000000000Replied: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 13:03:11 +0100
Replied: Justin Mason 
Replied: Craig R Hughes 
Replied: Daniel Quinlan 
Replied: SpamAssassin Developers 
From: craig@hughes-family.org  Sat Oct  5 12:38:05 2002
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Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 01:12:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Craig R Hughes 
To: Daniel Quinlan 
Cc: Justin Mason ,
	SpamAssassin Developers 
Subject: Re: [SAdev] nightly mass-check and hit-frequencies
In-Reply-To: 
Message-Id: 
X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
X-Habeas-Swe-2: brightly anticipated
X-Habeas-Swe-3: like Habeas SWE (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm)
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	tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,HABEAS_SWE,
	      IN_REP_TO,T_NONSENSE_FROM_30_40,USER_AGENT_PINE
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Daniel Quinlan wrote:

DQ> jm@jmason.org (Justin Mason) writes:
DQ> 
DQ> > But I think rsync is key; it's very efficient bandwidth-wise, and it
DQ> > allows you to select which ones you want just as well as wget would.
DQ> > (Bandwidth is a much bigger issue for me and some other of the europeans
DQ> > involved, than it would be for you guys ;)  IMO it's by far the most
DQ> > efficient and scriptable way to do this stuff, these days.
DQ> 
DQ> It must be horrible being a dial-up user in 2002.  If we can *automate*
DQ> rsync submission with good *authentication*, it would be fine with me.
DQ> The current rsync method is not sufficiently authenticated, though.

I'll take a look at it.  I'm sure there's got to be some reasonly easy way to 
have rsync carry itself over ssh and secure access using ssh keys.

DQ> > I suggest we use the hughes-family.org server for rsyncing, as we do for
DQ> > the corpus_submit stuff -- in a separate subdirectory, though! -- then
DQ> > I'll take a look at getting a nightly hit-frequencies-collation system
DQ> > going.

Ok, I'll take a look at it.

C


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1627.6e01ae785063460c6a1227465ae3c85b.eml000066400000000000000000000041361444326627400307560ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: jm@jmason.org  Sat Oct  5 18:17:58 2002
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	id 4CA2BF7B1; Sat,  5 Oct 2002 18:17:58 +0100 (IST)
To: Randy Bush 
Cc: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason),
	spamassassin list 
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] razor2 auth? 
In-Reply-To: Message from Randy Bush  
   of "Sat, 05 Oct 2002 09:16:29 PDT."  
From: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
X-GPG-Key-Fingerprint: 0A48 2D8B 0B52 A87D 0E8A  6ADD 4137 1B50 6E58 EF0A
X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
X-Habeas-Swe-2: brightly anticipated
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	tests=AWL,HABEAS_SWE,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_00_10
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 


Randy Bush said:

> >> freebsd -stable
> >> spamassassin 2.41
> >>     spamasassin -r
> >> results in
> >> razor2 report failed: No such file or directory Razor2 reporting requires 
> authentication at /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.005/Mail/SpamAssassin/Repo
> rter.pm line 77.
> >> used to work until upgrade
> > 
> > using spamd?  try the -H switch. 
> 
> no, pipinng the message to "spamassassin -r" from within my mail
> user agent, VM under Emacs.

oops, sorry -- didn't notice the "report" bit.  Yes, you need to register
for Razor2 -- "razor-register" or "razor-admin -register" if I recall
correctly.

--j.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1628.fed40c4cb72a87d6520ca377e2c4df23.eml000066400000000000000000000066401444326627400313430ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Mon Oct  7 13:15:13 2002
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From: Don Saklad 
To: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net,
	dsaklad@zurich.ai.mit.edu
Message-Id: 
Subject: [SAtalk] emacs rmail  How to sort subject lines and headers.
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	tests=KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,TO_HAS_SPACES,T_NONSENSE_FROM_30_40
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: *

In emacs rmail what varieties of different techniques are there for
sorting your favorite correspondents from the mix?... leaving the hundreds
of spam commercials. A filter for the campus computer system puts subject
lines and headers on many of the hundreds of spam commercials
with http://spamassassin.org


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1629.a65b12c5ddbee4016ecda63b404149d8.eml000066400000000000000000000112461444326627400313310ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Mon Oct  7 20:37:15 2002
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To: "Kenneth Nerhood" 
Cc: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Re: AWL bug in 2.42?
In-Reply-To: Message from
    "Kenneth Nerhood"
     of
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From: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
X-GPG-Key-Fingerprint: 0A48 2D8B 0B52 A87D 0E8A  6ADD 4137 1B50 6E58 EF0A
X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
X-Habeas-Swe-2: brightly anticipated
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X-Habeas-Swe-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this
X-Habeas-Swe-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas
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X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-44.2 required=5.0
	tests=AWL,HABEAS_SWE,IN_REP_TO,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,
	      QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,T_NONSENSE_FROM_00_10
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 


Kenneth Nerhood said:

> I too am seeing very weird things with 2.42 and AWL.  I  installed a
> fresh system, and then ran a bunch of test spam through it (all from the
> same user).  All messages should have scored over 15.  The AWL kept
> adjusting them down so that after about 10 message I had a negative
> score.  I'm using spamc/d.

That's exactly what is intended; the idea is that legit senders who
habitually score just > 5, will eventually get out of "AWL hell" after
6-10 messages.

Note that running a single spam through "spamassassin -a -t" *will*
eventually whitelist the spammer.  but that's why the man page tells you
not to do it ;)

--j.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1641.7555c5920365e6315e3f20d83211d558.eml000066400000000000000000000206421444326627400305450ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Tue Oct  8 17:02:46 2002
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From: "postmaster@jpci.net" 
To: "spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net" 
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From: "rODbegbie" 
To: "Odhiambo Washington" ,
	"spamassassin" 
References: <20021008130510.GA23757@ns2.wananchi.com>
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] spamd error messages
Organization: Arsecandle Industries, Inc.
X-Habeas-SWE-1: winter into spring
X-Habeas-SWE-2: brightly anticipated
X-Habeas-SWE-3: like Habeas SWE (tm)
X-Habeas-SWE-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm)
X-Habeas-SWE-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this
X-Habeas-SWE-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas
X-Habeas-SWE-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant
X-Habeas-SWE-8: Message (HCM) and not spam. Please report use of this
X-Habeas-SWE-9: mark in spam to .
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/signed;
	micalg=SHA1;
	protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature";
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0426_01C26EBD.8DF911E0"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106
Sender: spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net
Errors-To: spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net
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X-Original-Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:26:32 -0400
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:26:32 -0400

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0426_01C26EBD.8DF911E0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Odhiambo Washington wrote:
> After being bitten by bugs in 2.41, I've downgraded to 2.31 but now spamd
> spews errors like I've never seen before:

Delete the contents of /usr/local/share/spamassassin and reinstall.  There
are some files that were new to v2.4x, so they won't be overwritten when you
downgrade.

rOD.


--
"Fast!  Fast!  Faster!  Bring the beef, you bastard,"
cries Paula Abdul, "and don't forget the pasta!"

Doing the blogging thang again at http://www.groovymother.com/ <<

------=_NextPart_000_0426_01C26EBD.8DF911E0
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	name="smime.p7s"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment;
	filename="smime.p7s"

MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIJIjCCAnow
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------=_NextPart_000_0426_01C26EBD.8DF911E0--

--==_15304473447567@buffy.jpci.net==_--


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1642.c4eea2387cc6850b5e1cb84529535f8b.eml000066400000000000000000000075111444326627400312140ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-devel-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Aug 22 15:46:30 2002
Return-Path: 
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	by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0)
	for jm@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:46:25 +0100 (IST)
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From: Matt Sergeant 
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.0rc1) Gecko/20020426
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?David_H=F6hn?= 
Cc: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAdev] Interesting approach to Spam handling..
References: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Sender: spamassassin-devel-admin@example.sourceforge.net
Errors-To: spamassassin-devel-admin@example.sourceforge.net
X-Beenthere: spamassassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
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X-Original-Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:32:48 +0100
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 15:32:48 +0100
X-Pyzor: Reported 0 times.
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.4 required=7.0
	tests=FOR_FREE,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,
	      SPAM_PHRASE_03_05,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_MOZILLA_UA,
	      X_ACCEPT_LANG
	version=2.40-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

David H�hn wrote:
> Hello, have you seen and discussed this article and his approach?
> 
> Thank you
> 
> http://www.paulgraham.com/spam.html

Yes. See the perl module Mail::SpamTest::Bayesian on CPAN, and the 
thread on sa-talk.

Matt.




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1643.6376ec92af99da9b90e5a3ab60f9fd09.eml000066400000000000000000000117701444326627400313710ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: spamassassin-talk-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Wed Oct  9 18:31:42 2002
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To: Craig Hughes 
Cc: spamassassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAtalk] Re: fully-public corpus of mail available
In-Reply-To: Message from Craig Hughes  of
    "Wed, 09 Oct 2002 08:37:09 PDT."
    
From: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
X-GPG-Key-Fingerprint: 0A48 2D8B 0B52 A87D 0E8A  6ADD 4137 1B50 6E58 EF0A
X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
X-Habeas-Swe-2: brightly anticipated
X-Habeas-Swe-3: like Habeas SWE (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this
X-Habeas-Swe-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas
X-Habeas-Swe-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant
X-Habeas-Swe-8: Message (HCM) and not spam.  Please report use of this
X-Habeas-Swe-9: mark in spam to .
Message-Id: <20021009172325.3CA8C16F03@example.com>
Sender: spamassassin-talk-admin@example.sourceforge.net
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X-Original-Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 18:23:20 +0100
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 18:23:20 +0100
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-31.0 required=5.0
	tests=AWL,HABEAS_SWE,IN_REP_TO,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,
	      QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,T_NONSENSE_FROM_00_10,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_10_20,T_NONSENSE_FROM_20_30,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_30_40,T_NONSENSE_FROM_40_50,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_50_60,T_NONSENSE_FROM_60_70,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_70_80,T_NONSENSE_FROM_80_90,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_90_91,T_NONSENSE_FROM_91_92,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_92_93,T_NONSENSE_FROM_93_94,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_94_95,T_NONSENSE_FROM_95_96,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_96_97,T_NONSENSE_FROM_97_98,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_98_99,T_NONSENSE_FROM_99_100,
	      T_QUOTE_TWICE_1
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 


Craig Hughes said:

> >   - All headers are reproduced in full.  Some address obfuscation has
> >   taken place; hostnames in some cases have been replaced with
> >   "example.com", which should have a valid MX record (if I recall
> >   correctly).  In > most cases though, the headers appear as they were
> >   received.
> 
> Nope:
> 
> [craig@balam craig]$ dig example.com mx

I knew there was something about example.com ;)

Ah well, that's probably just as good anyway...

--j.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1644.ba26918a1837fcadae2327adc12a797d.eml000066400000000000000000000100171444326627400313310ustar00rootroot00000000000000Replied: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:14:29 +0100
Replied: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
Replied: Daniel Quinlan 
Replied: SpamAssassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net
Replied: SpamAssassin-devel@example.sourceforge.net
From: quinlan@pathname.com  Thu Oct 10 12:29:12 2002
Return-Path: 
Delivered-To: yyyy@localhost.example.com
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	by jmason.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B24416F03
	for ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:29:11 +0100 (IST)
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	by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0)
	for jm@localhost (single-drop); Thu, 10 Oct 2002 12:29:11 +0100 (IST)
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    (adsl-216-103-211-240.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [216.103.211.240]) by
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    ; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 05:46:27 +0100
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    (Debian)) id 17zVDy-0006cM-00; Wed, 09 Oct 2002 21:47:02 -0700
To: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
Cc: SpamAssassin-talk@example.sourceforge.net,
	SpamAssassin-devel@lists.sourceforge.net,
	Steve Atkins , ion@aueb.gr, donatespam@archub.org,
	spambayes@python.org
Subject: Re: [SAdev] fully-public corpus of mail available
References: <20021009122116.6EB2416F03@example.com>
From: Daniel Quinlan 
Date: 09 Oct 2002 21:47:02 -0700
In-Reply-To: yyyy@example.com's message of "Wed, 09 Oct 2002 13:21:11 +0100"
Message-Id: 
Lines: 40
X-Mailer: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-118.9 required=5.0
	tests=AWL,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,
	      REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,T_NONSENSE_FROM_00_10,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_10_20,T_NONSENSE_FROM_20_30,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_30_40,T_NONSENSE_FROM_40_50,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_50_60,T_NONSENSE_FROM_60_70,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_70_80,T_NONSENSE_FROM_80_90,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_90_91,T_NONSENSE_FROM_91_92,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_92_93,T_NONSENSE_FROM_93_94,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_94_95,T_NONSENSE_FROM_95_96,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_96_97,T_NONSENSE_FROM_97_98,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_98_99,T_NONSENSE_FROM_99_100,
	      T_QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,USER_AGENT_GNUS_XM
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

> (Please feel free to forward this message to other possibly-interested
> parties.)

Some caveats (in decending order of concern):

1. These messages could end up being falsely (or incorrectly) reported
   to Razor, DCC, Pyzor, etc.  Certain RBLs too.  I don't think the
   results for these distributed tests can be trusted in any way,
   shape, or form when running over a public corpus.

2. These messages could also be submitted (more than once) to projects
   like SpamAssassin that rely on filtering results submission for GA
   tuning and development.

3. Spammers could adopt elements of the good messages to throw off
   filters.  And, of course, there's always progression in technology
   (by both spammers and non-spammers).

The second problem could be alleviated somewhat by adding a Nilsimsa
signature (or similar) to the mass-check file (the results format used
by SpamAssassin) and giving the message files unique names (MD5 or
SHA-1 of each file).

The third problem doesn't really worry me.

These problems (and perhaps others I have not identified) are unique
to spam filtering.  Compression corpuses and other performance-related
corpuses have their own set of problems, of course.

In other words, I don't think there's any replacement for having
multiple independent corpuses.  Finding better ways to distribute
testing and collate results seems like a more viable long-term solution
(and I'm glad we're working on exactly that for SpamAssassin).  If
you're going to seriously work on filter development, building a corpus
of 10000-50000 messages (half spam/half non-spam) is not really that
much work.  If you don't get enough spam, creating multi-technique
spamtraps (web, usenet, replying to spam) is pretty easy.  And who
doesn't get thousands of non-spam every week?  ;-)

Dan


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1645.60a80c94ae8fec2ef1f1ef0915445400.eml000066400000000000000000000102561444326627400312000ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: jm@jmason.org  Thu Oct 10 13:14:29 2002
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	id 0610616F17; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:14:29 +0100 (IST)
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	by jmason.org (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 033BAF7DA; Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:14:29 +0100 (IST)
To: Daniel Quinlan 
Cc: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason),
	SpamAssassin-talk@lists.sourceforge.net,
	SpamAssassin-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [SAdev] fully-public corpus of mail available 
In-Reply-To: Message from Daniel Quinlan  
   of "09 Oct 2002 21:47:02 PDT."  
From: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
X-GPG-Key-Fingerprint: 0A48 2D8B 0B52 A87D 0E8A  6ADD 4137 1B50 6E58 EF0A
X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
X-Habeas-Swe-2: brightly anticipated
X-Habeas-Swe-3: like Habeas SWE (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this
X-Habeas-Swe-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas
X-Habeas-Swe-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant
X-Habeas-Swe-8: Message (HCM) and not spam.  Please report use of this
X-Habeas-Swe-9: mark in spam to .
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:14:23 +0100
Sender: yyyy@example.com
Message-Id: <20021010121429.0610616F17@example.com>
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-27.8 required=5.0
	tests=AWL,HABEAS_SWE,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_00_10,T_NONSENSE_FROM_10_20,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_20_30,T_NONSENSE_FROM_30_40,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_40_50,T_NONSENSE_FROM_50_60,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_60_70,T_NONSENSE_FROM_70_80,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_80_90,T_NONSENSE_FROM_90_91,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_91_92,T_NONSENSE_FROM_92_93,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_93_94,T_NONSENSE_FROM_94_95,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_95_96,T_NONSENSE_FROM_96_97,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_97_98,T_NONSENSE_FROM_98_99,
	      T_NONSENSE_FROM_99_100,T_QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 


(trimmed cc list)

Daniel Quinlan said:

> 1. These messages could end up being falsely (or incorrectly) reported
>    to Razor, DCC, Pyzor, etc.  Certain RBLs too.  I don't think the
>    results for these distributed tests can be trusted in any way,
>    shape, or form when running over a public corpus.

I'll note that in the README.

> 2. These messages could also be submitted (more than once) to projects
>    like SpamAssassin that rely on filtering results submission for GA
>    tuning and development.
> The second problem could be alleviated somewhat by adding a Nilsimsa
> signature (or similar) to the mass-check file (the results format used
> by SpamAssassin) and giving the message files unique names (MD5 or
> SHA-1 of each file).

OK; maybe rewriting the message-ids will help here, that should allow
us to pick them out.  I'll do that.

> 3. Spammers could adopt elements of the good messages to throw off
>    filters.  And, of course, there's always progression in technology
>    (by both spammers and non-spammers).
> The third problem doesn't really worry me.

nah, me neither.

> These problems (and perhaps others I have not identified) are unique
> to spam filtering.  Compression corpuses and other performance-related
> corpuses have their own set of problems, of course.
> 
> In other words, I don't think there's any replacement for having
> multiple independent corpuses.  Finding better ways to distribute
> testing and collate results seems like a more viable long-term solution
> (and I'm glad we're working on exactly that for SpamAssassin).  If
> you're going to seriously work on filter development, building a corpus
> of 10000-50000 messages (half spam/half non-spam) is not really that
> much work.  If you don't get enough spam, creating multi-technique
> spamtraps (web, usenet, replying to spam) is pretty easy.  And who
> doesn't get thousands of non-spam every week?  ;-)

Yep.  The primary reason I released this, was to provide a good, big
corpus for academic testing of filter systems; it allows results to
be compared between filters using a known corpus.

For SpamAssassin development, everyone has to maintain their own corpus.

--j.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1646.b241667d03a7ff89619c30cbe2f8dab2.eml000066400000000000000000000105161444326627400312660ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Mon Aug 26 15:16:57 2002
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Subject: RE: [Razor-users] Razor with sendmail
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----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Friday, August 23, 2002 3:05 PM
Subject: Razor-users digest, Vol 1 #346 - 8 msgs


> Subject: RE: [Razor-users] Razor with sendmail
> Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 15:03:05 -0400
> From: "Rose, Bobby" 
> To: "Julian Bond" ,
> 
>
> If you didn't add it when compile would be one way.  Another would be to
> grep your sendmail.cf for the word Milter.
>
>
>
> "Bort, Paul"  wrote:
> >If your sendmail has been compiled with Milter support, you can add=20
> >SMRazor easily. We've been using it for a while without problems.=20
> >Others on the list have mentioned it as well.
> >
> >http://www.sapros.com/smrazor/
>
> Is there an easy way to tell if Milter is compiled in?
>

To see all the options compiled into (and version of) sendmail, try the
following line:

echo \$Z | /path/to/sendmail -bt -d0

Sven



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On Aug 23 Bort, Paul wrote:

>If your sendmail has been compiled with Milter support, you can add SMRazor
>easily. We've been using it for a while without problems. Others on the list
>have mentioned it as well. 
>
>http://www.sapros.com/smrazor/

Does this fork+exec a perl interpreter for every incoming mail? If so, I 
reckon your mailer is vulerable to a DoS attack without too much effort...
The real question is: is there a way to run razor without this overhead?  
Even some sort of razord you could talk to over a unix socket would do.
Until I can find one, I cannot spare the resources to run razor at all :(



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Bonjour,

   I'm writting a Python script, in order to use Razor with Qmail.
   The script is finish, but i want to test the result with positive
   mail (spam). Somebody knows, whrere can i find one.

   PS : Escuse my pooooooor English ;-))
   
--
Toorop 
Lorsque que vous avez �limin� l'impossible, ce qui reste, 
m�me si c'est improbable, doit �tre la v�rit�.
www.spoonsdesign.com



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Bonjour,

 Always for my script, if i run it manually in console all is ok
 whether is the user.
 But if i try to implement it in my general script filter running
 whith qmailq UID (503) :

 I've got 13 has exit status, and in my mail log :
 "Can't call method "log" on unblessed reference at
  /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.0/Razor2/Client/Agent.pm line 211."

  My log file is in /home/user/.razor/razor-agent.log
  and have write permission for qmailq user.

  Any idea ??

--
Toorop 
Lorsque que vous avez �limin� l'impossible, ce qui reste, 
m�me si c'est improbable, doit �tre la v�rit�.
www.spoonsdesign.com

---------------------------------
Mail scann� par Protecmail filter 



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I'm not sure if this is really a razor problem/issue or a sendmail
problem. Here's the scenario... My mail server is a 150mhz PC funning
FreeBSD 4.4. Ordinarily, the machine is quite idle; it supports my
wife's web site with Apache server running on it and a few other
services (jabber, etc). Between the various members of our family, we
get a fair amount of email coming in (mailing lists, etc). On
occasion, our DSL-based ISP dies for a number of hours. When we get a
reconnection to the Internet, I get a huge flow of emails coming in
which are then filtered via razor. As a result, I will sometimes see
over 20+ sendmail processes running at the same time after such an
occasion. The machine is then REALLY slow.

I noticed that my /etc/procmailrc file had had no arguments associated
with the call to razor-check. There was something in the log, though,
to make me suspicious that it was possibly not seeing all my razor
files. So I have just added "-home /etc/razor" as an argument. I
haven't had any down time since then so I cannot comment on whether
this change has sped up my razor processing a noticable amount. (This
paragraph may be an aside to my real problem, the first paragraph
above; but I thought I should be complete in my description.)

At any rate, has anyone else suffered from a backlog of email
processing creating lots and lots of sendmail processes?  Is there,
perhaps, a way to limit the number of sendmail processes?

Any ideas would be welcome.

Thanks,
Joe
---
Joe Berry
joe@topshot.com
AIM "joe topshot"
Yahoo Msgr "joetopshot"
jabber "joetopshot@topshot.com"
Baltimore, MD



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From: "Adam Goryachev" 
To: "Joe Berry" ,
	
Subject: RE: [Razor-users] Reducing impact from tons of email
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See your /etc/sendmail.cf file, there are a number of methods for limiting
the number of concurrent sendmail processes, either by load average (I'm
sure), or concurrency (I think)... I use sendmail anymore (I use qmail) but
I'm sure that if you look in the config file, you will see what you need...

Regards,
Adam

> -----Original Message-----
> From: razor-users-admin@example.sourceforge.net
> [mailto:razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net]On Behalf Of Joe Berry
> Sent: Sunday, 25 August 2002 1:44 PM
> To: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
> Subject: [Razor-users] Reducing impact from tons of email
>
>
> I'm not sure if this is really a razor problem/issue or a sendmail
> problem. Here's the scenario... My mail server is a 150mhz PC funning
> FreeBSD 4.4. Ordinarily, the machine is quite idle; it supports my
> wife's web site with Apache server running on it and a few other
> services (jabber, etc). Between the various members of our family, we
> get a fair amount of email coming in (mailing lists, etc). On
> occasion, our DSL-based ISP dies for a number of hours. When we get a
> reconnection to the Internet, I get a huge flow of emails coming in
> which are then filtered via razor. As a result, I will sometimes see
> over 20+ sendmail processes running at the same time after such an
> occasion. The machine is then REALLY slow.
>
> I noticed that my /etc/procmailrc file had had no arguments associated
> with the call to razor-check. There was something in the log, though,
> to make me suspicious that it was possibly not seeing all my razor
> files. So I have just added "-home /etc/razor" as an argument. I
> haven't had any down time since then so I cannot comment on whether
> this change has sped up my razor processing a noticable amount. (This
> paragraph may be an aside to my real problem, the first paragraph
> above; but I thought I should be complete in my description.)
>
> At any rate, has anyone else suffered from a backlog of email
> processing creating lots and lots of sendmail processes?  Is there,
> perhaps, a way to limit the number of sendmail processes?
>
> Any ideas would be welcome.
>
> Thanks,
> Joe
> ---
> Joe Berry
> joe@topshot.com
> AIM "joe topshot"
> Yahoo Msgr "joetopshot"
> jabber "joetopshot@topshot.com"
> Baltimore, MD
>
>
>
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On Aug 25 Joe Berry wrote:

>Very good advice given above.

Yes :)

>One more problem solved.

No. One more problem in some software worked around by using tricks in 
another piece of software. The solution is the aggregator.



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The following razor debugging sequence show my mail going from 9295 bytes to
0 bytes after the preproc runs, which gives me an exit code that is not 0.
I included the message below.

Fox

Razor-Log: No /etc/razor/razor-agent.conf found, skipping.
Razor-Log: No razor-agent.conf found, using defaults.
Aug 26 10:28:09.225237 check[3469]: [ 1] [bootup] Logging initiated
LogDebugLevel=9 to stdout
Aug 26 10:28:09.225890 check[3469]: [ 5] computed razorhome=/etc/razor,
conf=, ident=/etc/razor/identity
Aug 26 10:28:09.226006 check[3469]: [ 2] Razor-Agents v2.14 starting
razor-check -d -home=/etc/razor
Aug 26 10:28:09.229704 check[3469]: [ 9] uname -a: Linux qmail.mckee.com
2.4.8-34.1mdk #1 Mon Nov 19 12:40:39 MST 2001 i686 unknown
Aug 26 10:28:09.230155 check[3469]: [ 8] reading straight RFC822 mail from
Aug 26 10:28:09.231524 check[3469]: [ 6] read 1 mail
Aug 26 10:28:09.231923 check[3469]: [ 8] Client supported_engines: 1 2 3 4
Aug 26 10:28:09.233017 check[3469]: [ 8] prep_mail done: mail 1 headers=631,
mime0=9295
Aug 26 10:28:09.233434 check[3469]: [ 6] skipping whitelist file (empty?):
/etc/razor/razor-whitelist
Aug 26 10:28:09.233995 check[3469]: [ 5] read_file: 1 items read from
/etc/razor/servers.discovery.lst
Aug 26 10:28:09.234369 check[3469]: [ 5] read_file: 1 items read from
/etc/razor/servers.nomination.lst
Aug 26 10:28:09.234697 check[3469]: [ 5] read_file: 3 items read from
/etc/razor/servers.catalogue.lst
Aug 26 10:28:09.235184 check[3469]: [ 9] Assigning defaults to
honor.cloudmark.com
Aug 26 10:28:09.235415 check[3469]: [ 9] Assigning defaults to
truth.cloudmark.com
Aug 26 10:28:09.235624 check[3469]: [ 9] Assigning defaults to
fire.cloudmark.com
Aug 26 10:28:09.235830 check[3469]: [ 9] Assigning defaults to
apt.cloudmark.com
Aug 26 10:28:09.236715 check[3469]: [ 5] read_file: 11 items read from
/etc/razor/server.truth.cloudmark.com.conf
Aug 26 10:28:09.237368 check[3469]: [ 5] read_file: 11 items read from
/etc/razor/server.fire.cloudmark.com.conf
Aug 26 10:28:09.237825 check[3469]: [ 5] 149643 seconds before closest
server discovery
Aug 26 10:28:09.238135 check[3469]: [ 6] truth.cloudmark.com is a Catalogue
Server srl 51; computed min_cf=1, Server se: 0B
Aug 26 10:28:09.238414 check[3469]: [ 8] Computed supported_engines: 1 2 4
Aug 26 10:28:09.238656 check[3469]: [ 8] Using next closest server
truth.cloudmark.com:2703, cached info srl 51
Aug 26 10:28:09.238871 check[3469]: [ 8] mail 1 Subject: New Freeware
Download
Aug 26 10:28:09.290618 check[3469]: [ 6] preproc: mail 1.0 went from 9295
bytes to 0, erasing
Aug 26 10:28:09.291100 check[3469]: [ 5] Connecting to truth.cloudmark.com
...
Aug 26 10:28:09.505431 check[3469]: [ 8] Connection established
Aug 26 10:28:09.505662 check[3469]: [ 4] truth.cloudmark.com >> 29 server
greeting: sn=C&srl=51&ep4=7542-10&a=l
Aug 26 10:28:09.506086 check[3469]: [ 6] truth.cloudmark.com is a Catalogue
Server srl 51; computed min_cf=1, Server se: 0B
Aug 26 10:28:09.506342 check[3469]: [ 8] Computed supported_engines: 1 2 4
Aug 26 10:28:09.506604 check[3469]: [ 8] mail 1.0 skipped in check
Aug 26 10:28:09.506686 check[3469]: [ 5] No queries, no spam
Aug 26 10:28:09.506787 check[3469]: [ 5] disconnecting from server
truth.cloudmark.com
Aug 26 10:28:09.507071 check[3469]: [ 4] truth.cloudmark.com << 5
Aug 26 10:28:09.507155 check[3469]: [ 6] a=q
Aug 26 10:28:09.507959 check[3469]: [ 8] razor-check finished successfully.



>>From bounce-html-sales1-21787251@lyris.execsoft.com Mon Aug 26 14:28:10 2002
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 - Jammed: eric_koester@ccmail.mckee.com
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The following was personal correspondence between two people.  I can't
fathom how Razor thinks it is spam:

>
> We are struggling with the decisions related to wether or not to
> go ahead with our plans to purchase an OCR and forms
> scanning solution.
>
> An outside consultant mentioned that he had heard that not to
> long ago you folks were considering implementing OCR
> technology to reduce data entry costs and improve efficiency.
> If you could let us know if you did move foreward with any
> plans in that direction it would be of great help to us. May I ask
> what initialy prompted you to consider OCR? Did you decide it
> could help your compamy? What software did you go with?
> Would you recomend we take a look at it?
> At present we are still planning to continue our research until
> we decide which OCR system best suits our needs, then
> implement it quickly.
>
> If you are just starting to consider this
> technology feel free to stay in touch. We will let you know what
> we decide on and if it works for us.
>
> If you cannot advise on this please forward this E-mail to the
> proper individual in your company who might be able to help with
> this.
> Thanks,
> Jay




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Hello,

did any of you hear about a a razor plugin for mozilla?
a plugin that would add a "report as spam" button somewhere for the user 
to report a mail as spam on a server?

Arnaud
-- 
Arnaud Ab�lard
Administrateur r�seaux et syst�mes
Irin / Facult� de Sciences
Universit� de Nantes



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From: "Fox" 
To: "Arnaud Abelard" ,
	
References: <3D74593D.2050608@sciences.univ-nantes.fr>
Subject: Re: [Razor-users] razor plugins for mozilla?
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No, please post a link!

Fox
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arnaud Abelard" 
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 2:39 AM
Subject: [Razor-users] razor plugins for mozilla?


> Hello,
>
> did any of you hear about a a razor plugin for mozilla?
> a plugin that would add a "report as spam" button somewhere for the user
> to report a mail as spam on a server?
>
> Arnaud
> --
> Arnaud Ab�lard
> Administrateur r�seaux et syst�mes
> Irin / Facult� de Sciences
> Universit� de Nantes
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
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From: Jordan Ritter 
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Subject: Re: [Razor-users] razor plugins for mozilla?
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--aT9PWwzfKXlsBJM1
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Revoking self-submitted content (unblocking something you accidentally
blocked) results in permanent deletion of said content from the
network.

Fortunately, Razor2/SpamNet isa network of content people DON'T want
[in their inbox, let alone IP rights].  Block away!

--jordan


On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 12:24:33PM -0700, Craig R.Hughes wrote:

# "Free" is a relative concept if you actually read the EULA.  No
# commercial use, and anything you submit to razor becomes entirely
# their intellectual property.  Better not accidentally hit "This is
# spam" on anything you want to retain IP rights to.

--aT9PWwzfKXlsBJM1
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Reply-To: "Jonathan Nichols" 
From: "Jonathan Nichols" 
To: "Fox" , 
References: <3D74593D.2050608@sciences.univ-nantes.fr>
    <002901c25369$fe004fe0$7c640f0a@mfc.corp.mckee.com>
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Subject: Re: [Razor-users] Razor v2 effectiveness stats - HTML table - Take 2
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Oh, I was serious. I'm awful with perl/etc. I just think the HTML graph that
was created was pretty neat and I wish I could do something like that. :-)


> I can't tell if you are serious or joking.  I have a custom perl based
spam
> blocking framework that uses plug-ins to block spam.  I test each message
> with every plug-in and keep the stats in a mysql database, which are what
> you see below.
>
> Fox
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jonathan Nichols" 
> To: 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 2:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [Razor-users] Razor v2 effectiveness stats - HTML table -
Take
> 2
>
>
> > How do you make up graphs like that, anyway? :-)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Daniel Higgins" 
> > To: "Fox" ; 
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 10:57 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Razor-users] Razor v2 effectiveness stats - HTML table -
> Take
> > 2
> >
> >
> > that's pretty impressive, have you seen any false positives yet? myself
> i'm
> > still at the stage of creating the corpuses. i'll report back after i
get
> > some testing of my own :P
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: Fox
> >   To: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
> >   Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 12:54 PM
> >   Subject: Re: [Razor-users] Razor v2 effectiveness stats - HTML table -
> > Take 2
> >
> >
> >   Sorry about the html, for those of you still using elm or other
non-GUI
> >   clients.  I don't have time to post it as text.
> >
> >   The "Spam Count" is the total of all spam detected by the various
> filters.
> >
> >   Jammed is a custom phrase ranking system.
> >   Razored is Razor v2.
> >   Bayesian filter is based off of Paul Graham's work (statistical
> >   probability), using a corpus of 4000 non-spam and 2000 spam messages.
> >
> >         Spam Statistics
> >         Date Spam Count Jammed Razored Blacklisted Trollbox Bayesian
> >         2002-08-27 370 145    (39.19%) 181    (48.92%) 79    (21.35%)
120
> > (32.43%) 275    (74.32%)
> >         2002-08-28 397 106    (26.70%) 126    (31.74%) 163    (41.06%)
136
> > (34.26%) 320    (80.60%)
> >         2002-08-29 346 154    (44.51%) 146    (42.20%) 78    (22.54%)
101
> > (29.19%) 261    (75.43%)
> >         2002-08-30 366 163    (44.54%) 166    (45.36%) 65    (17.76%)
138
> > (37.70%) 272    (74.32%)
> >         2002-08-31 282 211    (74.82%) 133    (47.16%) 27    ( 9.57%)
132
> > (46.81%) 256    (90.78%)
> >         2002-09-01 220 127    (57.73%) 125    (56.82%) 22    (10.00%) 91
> > (41.36%) 157    (71.36%)
> >         2002-09-02 166 86    (51.81%) 77    (46.39%) 22    (13.25%) 64
> > (38.55%) 123    (74.10%)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
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Hi,

Newbie (to the list) question;  I've been working on porting the code to
run under Perl on Windows.  The changes are fairly minor and can be made
to interoperate with the current code.  How would one best go about
getting those changes merged in (better question, would there be
interest in such a version and getting those changes merged in)?

Bill






-------------------------------------------------------
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1660.f4b2e5b394c3aaf2589c49c205ca05d7.eml000066400000000000000000000333611444326627400312620ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Sep  6 11:34:24 2002
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Message-Id: <3D780F2B.8090709@lelandwoodbury.com>
From: Leland Woodbury 
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To: David Rees 
Cc: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Razor-users] Problem with Razor 2.14 and Spamassassin 2.41
References: <20020905160808.B2932@greenhydrant.com>
    
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------050101050502080302080407
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I found a nice little Perl script for this purpose called rotate, which 
makes the process of rotating log files very simple.  If there's an 
official source for this script, I couldn't find it.  (My hosting 
provider, pair.com, has it installed, and that's where I found it.) 
 However, redistribution appears to be allowed, so I've attached it.

Good luck...

L

David Rees wrote:

>On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 08:53:16PM -0400, Theo Van Dinter wrote:
>  
>
>>On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 06:16:57PM -0500, Mike Burger wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>You might be better asking this on the spamassassin-talk list.  The folks 
>>>there will almost definitely have an answer for this.
>>>      
>>>
>>I posted a fairly lengthy complete answer to this problem and how to
>>get around it in SA 2.41 on the spamassassin-talk list. :)
>>    
>>
>
>Thanks for the post there, it answered all my questions about
>spamassassin/razor interaction.
>
>Now for a razor question:
>
>I'm worried about having a server full of razor-agent.log files which keep
>on growing.  Is it possible to configure razor log via SYSLOG to make it
>easy to rotate logs?  Searching through the man pages didn't turn anything
>up...  Otherwise I'll have to write a script to go through each user's home
>directory looking for razor-agent.log files to rotate periodically.
>
>Thanks,
>Dave
>
>
>-------------------------------------------------------
>This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old
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>  
>

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On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 10:12:59PM -0400, Leland Woodbury wrote:
> I found a nice little Perl script for this purpose called rotate, which 
> makes the process of rotating log files very simple.  If there's an 
> official source for this script, I couldn't find it.  (My hosting 
> provider, pair.com, has it installed, and that's where I found it.) 
>  However, redistribution appears to be allowed, so I've attached it.

Thanks for the script.  It also appears that the standard logrotate tools
included with many systems (or at least RedHat systems) will support
wildcards when rotating files so something like
/home/*/.razor/razor-agent.log can be specified...

-Dave


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On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 08:53:16PM -0400, Theo Van Dinter wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 06:16:57PM -0500, Mike Burger wrote:
> > You might be better asking this on the spamassassin-talk list.  The folks 
> > there will almost definitely have an answer for this.
> 
> I posted a fairly lengthy complete answer to this problem and how to
> get around it in SA 2.41 on the spamassassin-talk list. :)

Thanks for the post there, it answered all my questions about
spamassassin/razor interaction.

Now for a razor question:

I'm worried about having a server full of razor-agent.log files which keep
on growing.  Is it possible to configure razor log via SYSLOG to make it
easy to rotate logs?  Searching through the man pages didn't turn anything
up...  Otherwise I'll have to write a script to go through each user's home
directory looking for razor-agent.log files to rotate periodically.

Thanks,
Dave


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From: Mike Burger 
To: Theo Van Dinter 
Cc: David Rees ,
	
Subject: Re: [Razor-users] Problem with Razor 2.14 and Spamassassin 2.41
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And you were exactly the person I figured would do so. 

On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Theo Van Dinter wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 06:16:57PM -0500, Mike Burger wrote:
> > You might be better asking this on the spamassassin-talk list.  The folks 
> > there will almost definitely have an answer for this.
> 
> I posted a fairly lengthy complete answer to this problem and how to
> get around it in SA 2.41 on the spamassassin-talk list. :)
> 
> 



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On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 05:11:32PM -0500, Josh Hildebrand wrote:
> If that's the case, can someone please point me to something that explains
> how to remove Razor1 from my system?  I don't see a point in envoking it.
> Especially when it appears to error out on me.
>=20
> Problem while trying to load Razor1: Permission denied  at
> /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.1/Mail/SpamAssassin/Dns.pm line 288.
> debug: leaving helper-app run mode

rm -rf /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.1/Razor

(you'll want to check that path first of course...)

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From: Mike Burger 
To: Michael Duff 
Cc: David Rees ,
	
Subject: Re: [Razor-users] Problem with Razor 2.14 and Spamassassin 2.41
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Shouldn't there be a w, somewhere in tehre?  Simply setting group and 
owner to read and execute won't alleviate a write problem.

On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, Michael Duff wrote:

> This is due to insufficient write privileges to the "razor-agent.log" 
> file. A quick work-around is to do a "chmod go+rx" on that file (of 
> course, it's better to restrict the access as much as possible).
> 
> In Agent.pm, when the Razor2::Logger object is created, if it doesn't 
> have write permission to the log file it does not succeed. Then, later 
> in the code when the log object is used, it fails with the "unblessed" 
> error.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> Michael Duff
> 
> David Rees wrote:
> 
> >This is my first time running Razor, heard a lot of good things about it so
> >I thought I'd give it a shot.  I also run SpamAssassin so I'd like to
> >integrate the two.
> >
> >I'm not sure if this problem is with SpamAssassin or Razor, so I though I'd
> >shoot the message here first
> >
> >With a freshly installed SpamAssassin 2.41 and Razor 2.14 I'm seeing these
> >messages spit out from spamd:
> >
> >razor2 check skipped: No such file or directory Can't call method "log" on
> >unblessed reference at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.0/Razor2/Client/Agent.pm
> >line 211,  line 75.
> >
> >Any ideas?  razor seems to run correctly over the command line.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >-Dave
> >
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------
> >This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old
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> >  
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
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From: Theo Van Dinter 
To: Mike Burger 
Cc: David Rees ,
	razor-users@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Razor-users] Problem with Razor 2.14 and Spamassassin 2.41
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On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 06:16:57PM -0500, Mike Burger wrote:
> You might be better asking this on the spamassassin-talk list.  The folks=
=20
> there will almost definitely have an answer for this.

I posted a fairly lengthy complete answer to this problem and how to
get around it in SA 2.41 on the spamassassin-talk list. :)

--=20
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 bad judgment." - Zen Musings

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Subject: RE: [Razor-users] spamassassin+razor2
To: "Theo Van Dinter" 
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Theo,

Thank you very much, it solves the problem!!!!

Eugene


-----Original Message-----
From: razor-users-admin@example.sourceforge.net
[mailto:razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net]On Behalf Of Theo Van
Dinter
Sent: September 5, 2002 4:38 PM
To: Eugene Chiu
Cc: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Razor-users] spamassassin+razor2


On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 04:27:08PM -0400, Eugene Chiu wrote:
> razor2 check skipped: Bad file descriptor Insecure dependency in open
while runn
> ing setuid at /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.1/Razor2/Client/Config.pm
line
> 410,  line 1.
> >From info@znion.com  Thu Sep  5 11:55:15 2002
>  Subject: *****SPAM***** Computer Maintenance
>   Folder: /home/eugene/caughtspam
8343

It looks like you're running via procmail -- what are the permissions
on procmail?  "Insecure dependency" screams "I'm in taint mode!", which
is a typical problem when procmail is setuid/setgid (the permissions
should be 755).

If this is in fact the problem, an easy solution is to put "DROPPRIVS=yes"
in the procmailrc. :)

--
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To: David Rees 
Cc: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Razor-users] Problem with Razor 2.14 and Spamassassin 2.41
References: <20020905160808.B2932@greenhydrant.com>
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This is due to insufficient write privileges to the "razor-agent.log" 
file. A quick work-around is to do a "chmod go+rx" on that file (of 
course, it's better to restrict the access as much as possible).

In Agent.pm, when the Razor2::Logger object is created, if it doesn't 
have write permission to the log file it does not succeed. Then, later 
in the code when the log object is used, it fails with the "unblessed" 
error.

Hope this helps,
Michael Duff

David Rees wrote:

>This is my first time running Razor, heard a lot of good things about it so
>I thought I'd give it a shot.  I also run SpamAssassin so I'd like to
>integrate the two.
>
>I'm not sure if this problem is with SpamAssassin or Razor, so I though I'd
>shoot the message here first
>
>With a freshly installed SpamAssassin 2.41 and Razor 2.14 I'm seeing these
>messages spit out from spamd:
>
>razor2 check skipped: No such file or directory Can't call method "log" on
>unblessed reference at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.0/Razor2/Client/Agent.pm
>line 211,  line 75.
>
>Any ideas?  razor seems to run correctly over the command line.
>
>Thanks,
>-Dave
>
>
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>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/razor-users
>  
>





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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C254F9.146CF4F0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

I am wondering if anybody has successfully install a site-wide =
spamassassin+razor2 installation. I am having so much trouble and the =
following is the extract of my procmail.log.

razor2 check skipped: Bad file descriptor Insecure dependency in open =
while runn
ing setuid at =
/usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.1/Razor2/Client/Config.pm line
410,  line 1.
>>From info@znion.com  Thu Sep  5 11:55:15 2002
 Subject: *****SPAM***** Computer Maintenance
  Folder: /home/eugene/caughtspam                                        =
  8343


In razor-agent.log, I simply get the bootup message and that's it...

Sep 05 11:55:15.668648 check[8478]: [ 1] [bootup] Logging initiated =
LogDebugLeve
l=3D14 to file:/var/log/razor-agent.log

Please help. Thanks.

Eugene

------=_NextPart_000_0018_01C254F9.146CF4F0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable









Hi all,


 


I am wondering if anybody has =
successfully install=20
a site-wide spamassassin+razor2 installation. I am having so much =
trouble and=20
the following is the extract of my procmail.log.


 


razor2 check skipped: Bad file =
descriptor Insecure=20
dependency in open while runn
ing setuid at=20
/usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.1/Razor2/Client/Config.pm =
line
410,=20
<GEN23> line 1.
From info@znion.com  Thu Sep  5 =
11:55:15=20
2002
 Subject: *****SPAM***** Computer Maintenance
  =
Folder:=20
/home/eugene/caughtspam        &n=
bsp;           &nb=
sp;           &nbs=
p;        =20
8343


 


 


In razor-agent.log, I simply get the =
bootup message=20
and that's it...


 


Sep 05 11:55:15.668648 check[8478]: [ =
1] [bootup]=20
Logging initiated LogDebugLeve
l=3D14 to=20
file:/var/log/razor-agent.log


 


Please help. Thanks.


 


Eugene


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1671.a2d7c7639df071620b481223ecab75c2.eml000066400000000000000000000121021444326627400311020ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Sep  6 11:37:55 2002
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From: Theo Van Dinter 
To: Eugene Chiu 
Cc: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Razor-users] spamassassin+razor2
Message-Id: <20020905203817.GX8101@kluge.net>
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	      REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03,USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_MUTT
	version=2.50-cvs
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--4Ycl1UgPPPgGZoSL
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 04:27:08PM -0400, Eugene Chiu wrote:
> razor2 check skipped: Bad file descriptor Insecure dependency in open whi=
le runn
> ing setuid at /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.1/Razor2/Client/Config.p=
m line
> 410,  line 1.
> >From info@znion.com  Thu Sep  5 11:55:15 2002
>  Subject: *****SPAM***** Computer Maintenance
>   Folder: /home/eugene/caughtspam                                        =
  8343

It looks like you're running via procmail -- what are the permissions
on procmail?  "Insecure dependency" screams "I'm in taint mode!", which
is a typical problem when procmail is setuid/setgid (the permissions
should be 755).

If this is in fact the problem, an easy solution is to put "DROPPRIVS=3Dyes"
in the procmailrc. :)

--=20
Randomly Generated Tagline:
"The bus had no heat, blew over in the wind and used the driver's legs
 as its first line of defense in an accident." - Unknown about the VW Bus

--4Ycl1UgPPPgGZoSL
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
Content-Disposition: inline

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org

iD8DBQE9d8C5AuOQUeWAs2MRAhaSAJ9AxnypfiK/+5I6gxO8sTauLOJ3wgCg0N5b
HPwI8USX9YeAQF6GE4bzmgc=
=6aCu
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--4Ycl1UgPPPgGZoSL--


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From: Josh Hildebrand 
To: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
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Subject: [Razor-users] removing Razor1
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	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Forgive me for being a partially stupid end-user of this fantastic
spam fighting software.

I was looking at my spamd debug output today, and noticed that it ran
through Razor2 stuff, and then it ran through dccproc, and then it tried to
go through old Razor1 stuff.  I'm assuming (and please correct me if I'm
wrong) that Razor1 is out dated and was to be replaced entirely by Razor2.

If that's the case, can someone please point me to something that explains
how to remove Razor1 from my system?  I don't see a point in envoking it.
Especially when it appears to error out on me.

debug: Razor1 is available
debug: entering helper-app run mode
debug: Razor Agents 1.19, protocol version 2.
debug: 170803 seconds before closest server discovery
debug: Agent terminated
Problem while trying to load Razor1: Permission denied  at
/usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.1/Mail/SpamAssassin/Dns.pm line 288.
debug: leaving helper-app run mode

Thanks!

-- 
Josh Hildebrand          Email: josh@jedi.net


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1673.be7fb2decb75d04a65ef85f30f678060.eml000066400000000000000000000116641444326627400313620ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Sep  6 11:38:03 2002
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From: Mike Burger 
To: David Rees 
Cc: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Razor-users] Problem with Razor 2.14 and Spamassassin 2.41
In-Reply-To: <20020905160808.B2932@greenhydrant.com>
Message-Id: 
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	tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,FOR_FREE,IN_REP_TO,
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	      USER_AGENT_PINE
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

You might be better asking this on the spamassassin-talk list.  The folks 
there will almost definitely have an answer for this.

On Thu, 5 Sep 2002, David Rees wrote:

> This is my first time running Razor, heard a lot of good things about it so
> I thought I'd give it a shot.  I also run SpamAssassin so I'd like to
> integrate the two.
> 
> I'm not sure if this problem is with SpamAssassin or Razor, so I though I'd
> shoot the message here first
> 
> With a freshly installed SpamAssassin 2.41 and Razor 2.14 I'm seeing these
> messages spit out from spamd:
> 
> razor2 check skipped: No such file or directory Can't call method "log" on
> unblessed reference at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.0/Razor2/Client/Agent.pm
> line 211,  line 75.
> 
> Any ideas?  razor seems to run correctly over the command line.
> 
> Thanks,
> -Dave
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1674.af90d09c58aa2dba5ee593c8ae3d8c70.eml000066400000000000000000000073141444326627400315120ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Sep  6 11:38:50 2002
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From: David Rees 
To: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Razor-users] Problem with Razor 2.14 and Spamassassin 2.41
Message-Id: <20020905163128.A3322@greenhydrant.com>
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X-Spam-Level: 

On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 06:16:57PM -0500, Mike Burger wrote:
> You might be better asking this on the spamassassin-talk list.  The folks 
> there will almost definitely have an answer for this.

Thanks, I just posted a similar message there.

-Dave


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1675.550f474e8aea76f79d203152aac1767f.eml000066400000000000000000000073031444326627400311360ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Sep  6 11:39:27 2002
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Subject: [Razor-users] Problem with Razor 2.14 and Spamassassin 2.41
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	tests=AWL,FOR_FREE,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,SPAM_PHRASE_02_03,
	      USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_MUTT
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

This is my first time running Razor, heard a lot of good things about it so
I thought I'd give it a shot.  I also run SpamAssassin so I'd like to
integrate the two.

I'm not sure if this problem is with SpamAssassin or Razor, so I though I'd
shoot the message here first

With a freshly installed SpamAssassin 2.41 and Razor 2.14 I'm seeing these
messages spit out from spamd:

razor2 check skipped: No such file or directory Can't call method "log" on
unblessed reference at /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.0/Razor2/Client/Agent.pm
line 211,  line 75.

Any ideas?  razor seems to run correctly over the command line.

Thanks,
-Dave


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From: Josh Hildebrand 
To: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Razor-users] spamassassin+razor2
Message-Id: <20020905223153.GB7798@jedi.net>
References: <20020905203817.GX8101@kluge.net>
    
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No as a answer to this FAQ, would the recommended answer be to 

a) chmod 755 /usr/bin/procmail

or 

b) add DROPPRIVS=yes to /etc/procmailrc

or 

c) all of the above


I ask because I just did B, and my procmail is still:
-rwsr-sr-x    1 root     mail        67988 Jul 24 15:43 /usr/bin/procmail
But things seem to be working, so far..


On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 06:18:55PM -0400, Eugene Chiu wrote:
> 
> Theo,
> 
> Thank you very much, it solves the problem!!!!
> 
> Eugene
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: razor-users-admin@example.sourceforge.net
> [mailto:razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net]On Behalf Of Theo Van
> Dinter
> Sent: September 5, 2002 4:38 PM
> To: Eugene Chiu
> Cc: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
> Subject: Re: [Razor-users] spamassassin+razor2
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 05, 2002 at 04:27:08PM -0400, Eugene Chiu wrote:
> > razor2 check skipped: Bad file descriptor Insecure dependency in open
> while runn
> > ing setuid at /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.1/Razor2/Client/Config.pm
> line
> > 410,  line 1.
> > >From info@znion.com  Thu Sep  5 11:55:15 2002
> >  Subject: *****SPAM***** Computer Maintenance
> >   Folder: /home/eugene/caughtspam
> 8343
> 
> It looks like you're running via procmail -- what are the permissions
> on procmail?  "Insecure dependency" screams "I'm in taint mode!", which
> is a typical problem when procmail is setuid/setgid (the permissions
> should be 755).
> 
> If this is in fact the problem, an easy solution is to put "DROPPRIVS=yes"
> in the procmailrc. :)
> 
> --
> Randomly Generated Tagline:
> "The bus had no heat, blew over in the wind and used the driver's legs
>  as its first line of defense in an accident." - Unknown about the VW Bus
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
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> cell phone?  Get a new here for FREE!
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/razor-users

-- 
Josh Hildebrand          Email: josh@jedi.net
Digital Sluice           Pager: http://www.digitalsluice.com/josh/pager
Phone: 512-255-9797      eFax: 413-691-9191


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I just set up razor and spamassassin, but I keep getting this error in my 
mail log file

razor2 check skipped: No such file or directory Can't call method "log" on 
unblessed reference at 
/usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/Razor2/Client/Agent.pm line 212.

I have looked through the archived list and the only thing I have seen 
about this error is a possible permission problem on the log file.
I did what it said in the archives, basically change the permission on the 
file but its still no go.

Any other help would be appreciated, maybe I'm missing something.
something I forgot to run or do.


rob




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On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 05:10:23PM -0400, Rob wrote:
> I just set up razor and spamassassin, but I keep getting this error in my 
> mail log file
> 
> razor2 check skipped: No such file or directory Can't call method "log" on 
> unblessed reference at 
> /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/Razor2/Client/Agent.pm line 212.
> 
> I have looked through the archived list and the only thing I have seen 
> about this error is a possible permission problem on the log file.

Yeah, the answer isn't here in this list, it's on the spamassassin-users
list.  I just asked it late last week.

Hint:  Add -H to the spamd startup flags using the latest version of
spamassassin.

-Dave


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From: Mike Burger 
To: David Rees 
Cc: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Razor-users] log problem
In-Reply-To: <20020909144457.A28394@greenhydrant.com>
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Or, you could do this. 

On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, David Rees wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 09, 2002 at 05:10:23PM -0400, Rob wrote:
> > I just set up razor and spamassassin, but I keep getting this error in my 
> > mail log file
> > 
> > razor2 check skipped: No such file or directory Can't call method "log" on 
> > unblessed reference at 
> > /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/Razor2/Client/Agent.pm line 212.
> > 
> > I have looked through the archived list and the only thing I have seen 
> > about this error is a possible permission problem on the log file.
> 
> Yeah, the answer isn't here in this list, it's on the spamassassin-users
> list.  I just asked it late last week.
> 
> Hint:  Add -H to the spamd startup flags using the latest version of
> spamassassin.
> 
> -Dave
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by: OSDN - Tired of that same old
> cell phone?  Get a new here for FREE!
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> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/razor-users
> 



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From: Mike Burger 
To: Rob 
Cc: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Razor-users] log problem
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020909170821.01d096c8@mailhost.disaster.com>
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It's a permissions issue on the razor log file.  SpamAssassin runs setuid 
to the user to whom mail is being delivered.

You'll need to make the razor log file world writable.

On Mon, 9 Sep 2002, Rob wrote:

> I just set up razor and spamassassin, but I keep getting this error in my 
> mail log file
> 
> razor2 check skipped: No such file or directory Can't call method "log" on 
> unblessed reference at 
> /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.0/Razor2/Client/Agent.pm line 212.
> 
> I have looked through the archived list and the only thing I have seen 
> about this error is a possible permission problem on the log file.
> I did what it said in the archives, basically change the permission on the 
> file but its still no go.
> 
> Any other help would be appreciated, maybe I'm missing something.
> something I forgot to run or do.
> 
> 
> rob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1681.b17d16768d9543099dd7fe511f14ca9e.eml000066400000000000000000000066331444326627400311540ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Tue Sep 10 11:23:06 2002
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Hey Folks

I know this question gets asked a lot, but I haven't seen an answer lately.

Any idea when a user will be able to view his own trust rating?   What are
the plans for this?  Will it be built into the client, web based, emailed
to you nightly?  If you could share your brainstorming on the subject, I
would greatly appreciate it.




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1682.35613b5e95aa4cd78a5537bae6351bf5.eml000066400000000000000000000067321444326627400312130ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Tue Sep 10 11:23:26 2002
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Message-Id: <006f01c2587d$058c6b00$c03afea9@viebrock.ca>
Reply-To: "Colin Viebrock" 
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To: 
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Does anyone else experience this:

http://sf.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=600311&group_id=3978&atid=10
3978

Also, it seems that the bugs tracker on SF isn't used very much ... is there
somewhere else to post bugs?

- Colin



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1683.f2844e0cae274ae1be662d38631cd0c8.eml000066400000000000000000000110031444326627400312500ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Wed Sep 11 13:41:28 2002
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Subject: [Razor-users] How to test razor
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I have a spamd/spamc/razor/dcc setup.

My razor logs are full of:

Sep 10 09:48:48.411339 check[10200]: [ 1] [bootup] Logging initiated 
LogDebugLevel=3 to file:/home/omega13/.razor/razor-agent.log
Sep 10 09:48:49.391309 check[10200]: [ 3] mail 1 is not known spam.

The problem is that all the entries show "is not known spam"  I can't believe 
I'm that lucky.  So, how do I test to see that my razor installation is 
working properly.  I've been up to my ears in documentation for the past few 
days, so, if the reference is easy, just point me to it.  Otherwise a brief 
hint on how to, would be appreciated.
-- 
Robin Lynn Frank
Paradigm-Omega, LLC
==================================
Gandalf fell at Khazadum.
Sheridan fell at Z'ha'dum.
Avoid high places in 
locations ending in "dum"


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1684.925bdc970b65949bf11a0aea4a853b03.eml000066400000000000000000000202671444326627400312030ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep 12 18:44:30 2002
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From: David Raistrick 
To: "Rose, Bobby" 
Cc: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
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Subject: [Razor-users] no positive razor hits?
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On Tue, 10 Sep 2002, Rose, Bobby wrote:

> Use the sample-spam.txt from Spamassassin and do a "razor-check -d <
> sample-spam.txt"

Interesting.  I just upgraded to razor-agents 2.14 yesterday, ran
razor-admin -register.  I to am seeing that I'm not getting any positives
from razor.  Including the sample-spam.txt's from spamassassin 2.41, 2.31,
and 2.20.

Any suggestions?  thanks.

-d output below



maxwell:/var/qmail/alias/gb-users%# razor-check -d <
/usr/local/src/Mail-SpamAssassin-2.20/sample-spam.txt
 Razor-Log: Computed razorhome from env: /root/.razor
 Razor-Log: Found razorhome: /root/.razor
 Razor-Log: No /root/.razor/razor-agent.conf found, skipping.
 Razor-Log: No razor-agent.conf found, using defaults. 
Sep 12 12:04:13.785852 check[52238]: [ 1] [bootup] Logging initiated
LogDebugLevel=9 to stdout
Sep 12 12:04:13.787113 check[52238]: [ 5] computed razorhome=/root/.razor,
conf=, ident=/root/.razor/identity-ruqVa5jbuS
Sep 12 12:04:13.787442 check[52238]: [ 2]  Razor-Agents v2.14 starting
razor-check -d
Sep 12 12:04:13.789903 check[52238]: [ 9] uname -a: FreeBSD
maxwell.gta.com 4.5-RELEASE-p3 FreeBSD 4.5-RELEASE-p3 #0: Wed May 22
14:52:29 EDT 2002     root@maxwell.gta.com:/usr/src/sys/compile/maxwell
i386
Sep 12 12:04:13.790480 check[52238]: [ 8] reading straight RFC822 mail
from 
Sep 12 12:04:13.791397 check[52238]: [ 6] read 1 mail
Sep 12 12:04:13.791917 check[52238]: [ 8] Client supported_engines: 1 2 3
4
Sep 12 12:04:13.792948 check[52238]: [ 8]  prep_mail done: mail 1
headers=1432, mime0=3139
Sep 12 12:04:13.793639 check[52238]: [ 6] skipping whitelist file
(empty?): /root/.razor/razor-whitelist
Sep 12 12:04:13.794295 check[52238]: [ 5] read_file: 1 items read from
/root/.razor/servers.discovery.lst
Sep 12 12:04:13.794871 check[52238]: [ 5] read_file: 1 items read from
/root/.razor/servers.nomination.lst
Sep 12 12:04:13.795382 check[52238]: [ 5] read_file: 3 items read from
/root/.razor/servers.catalogue.lst
Sep 12 12:04:13.796047 check[52238]: [ 9] Assigning defaults to
honor.cloudmark.com
Sep 12 12:04:13.796456 check[52238]: [ 9] Assigning defaults to
apt.cloudmark.com
Sep 12 12:04:13.796829 check[52238]: [ 9] Assigning defaults to
fire.cloudmark.com
Sep 12 12:04:13.797180 check[52238]: [ 9] Assigning defaults to
truth.cloudmark.com
Sep 12 12:04:13.798322 check[52238]: [ 5] read_file: 11 items read from
/root/.razor/server.apt.cloudmark.com.conf
Sep 12 12:04:13.799188 check[52238]: [ 5] read_file: 11 items read from
/root/.razor/server.honor.cloudmark.com.conf
Sep 12 12:04:13.799866 check[52238]: [ 5] 96778 seconds before closest
server discovery
Sep 12 12:04:13.800342 check[52238]: [ 6] apt.cloudmark.com is a Catalogue
Server srl 51; computed min_cf=1, Server se: 0A
Sep 12 12:04:13.800818 check[52238]: [ 8] Computed supported_engines: 2 4
Sep 12 12:04:13.801167 check[52238]: [ 8] Using next closest server
apt.cloudmark.com:2703, cached info srl 51
Sep 12 12:04:13.801513 check[52238]: [ 8] mail 1 Subject: Home Based
Business for Grownups
Sep 12 12:04:13.805467 check[52238]: [ 6] preproc: mail 1.0 went from 3139
bytes to 3100 
Sep 12 12:04:13.805878 check[52238]: [ 6] computing sigs for mail 1.0, len
3100
Sep 12 12:04:13.809475 check[52238]: [ 5] Connecting to apt.cloudmark.com
...
Sep 12 12:04:18.587441 check[52238]: [ 8] Connection established
Sep 12 12:04:18.587929 check[52238]: [ 4] apt.cloudmark.com >> 29 server
greeting: sn=C&srl=51&ep4=7542-10&a=l
Sep 12 12:04:18.588562 check[52238]: [ 6] apt.cloudmark.com is a Catalogue
Server srl 51; computed min_cf=1, Server se: 0A
Sep 12 12:04:18.589041 check[52238]: [ 8] Computed supported_engines: 2 4
Sep 12 12:04:18.589432 check[52238]: [ 8] mail 1.0 e2
sig: PGFfFte87P3Ve-CPTdu3NWgiBikA
Sep 12 12:04:18.589751 check[52238]: [ 8] mail 1.0 e4
sig: k6oGZsa1AvVolyvalWx2AACdWb8A
Sep 12 12:04:18.590103 check[52238]: [ 8] preparing 2 queries
Sep 12 12:04:18.590638 check[52238]: [ 8] sending 1 batches
Sep 12 12:04:18.591087 check[52238]: [ 4] apt.cloudmark.com << 96
Sep 12 12:04:18.591324 check[52238]: [ 6]
-a=c&e=2&s=PGFfFte87P3Ve-CPTdu3NWgiBikA
a=c&e=4&ep4=7542-10&s=k6oGZsa1AvVolyvalWx2AACdWb8A
.
Sep 12 12:04:19.270870 check[52238]: [ 4] apt.cloudmark.com >> 14
Sep 12 12:04:19.271227 check[52238]: [ 6] response to sent.1
-p=0
p=0
.
Sep 12 12:04:19.272130 check[52238]: [ 6] mail 1.0 e=2
sig=PGFfFte87P3Ve-CPTdu3NWgiBikA: sig not found.
Sep 12 12:04:19.272449 check[52238]: [ 6] mail 1.0 e=4
sig=k6oGZsa1AvVolyvalWx2AACdWb8A: sig not found.
Sep 12 12:04:19.272760 check[52238]: [ 7] method 5: mail
1.0: no-contention part, spam=0
Sep 12 12:04:19.273012 check[52238]: [ 7] method 5: mail 1: a
non-contention part not spam, mail not spam
Sep 12 12:04:19.273257 check[52238]: [ 3] mail 1 is not known spam.
Sep 12 12:04:19.273578 check[52238]: [ 5] disconnecting from server
apt.cloudmark.com
Sep 12 12:04:19.273982 check[52238]: [ 4] apt.cloudmark.com << 5
Sep 12 12:04:19.274203 check[52238]: [ 6] a=q
Sep 12 12:04:19.274585 check[52238]: [ 8] razor-check finished
successfully.







---
david raistrick
drais@atlasta.net		http://www.expita.com/nomime.html




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1685.cd6b27de2307413e47e0212f8d4fc9bb.eml000066400000000000000000000116471444326627400312710ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Sep 13 13:35:15 2002
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From: "Will Glynn" 
To: 
Message-Id: 
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X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
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X-Original-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 19:23:46 -0500
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 19:23:46 -0500
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.7 required=7.0
	tests=FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,IN_REP_TO,
	      KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT_OUTLOOK
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

To continue the subject on an otherwise unrelated note, the following
personal correspondence was just flagged as spam:

The following is a slightly modified e-mail message trapped in a server-wide
spam box.

------
NEWSPAPER?????

any time estimate when we can expect you home?
dad






                    <********@**********       To:
<*************@***************>
                    *********>                 cc:
                                               Subject:     Oh, yeah
                    09/12/2002 12:43 PM






I have to stay after school today so I can work on the school newspaper
(layout) -- Nords will bring me home later than usual.

------

I don't know how to explain this one.

--Will





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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1686.4b992ea5041794476920fc2199b18ac9.eml000066400000000000000000000072641444326627400307370ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Fri Sep 13 16:50:05 2002
Return-Path: 
Delivered-To: yyyy@localhost.example.com
Received: from localhost (jalapeno [127.0.0.1])
	by jmason.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C95C16F03
	for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 16:50:04 +0100 (IST)
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Message-Id: <001601c25b31$80d2d0e0$7c640f0a@mfc.corp.mckee.com>
From: "Fox" 
To: 
References: <010501c24f82$947b3340$7c640f0a@mfc.corp.mckee.com>
    
    <20020912121017.A2630@rover.vipul.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Priority: 3
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X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
Subject: [Razor-users] Fun Uses of Razored Mail
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X-Original-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 10:26:09 -0400
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 10:26:09 -0400
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.0 required=7.0
	tests=AWL,CALL_FREE,FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,INVALID_MSGID,
	      KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,
	      USER_AGENT_OE
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

I'm taking all my razored mail today and calling any 1-800 numbers I can
find.  I say "Hi, I'm calling everyone that spammed me today to raise their
cost of doing business.  You have a great day!"  I'm told I should do it
from a pay phone, so it costs them 50 cents per call.  If more people did
this, we could tie up their phone lines and cost them so much money they
could never make spam work.

Also fun is the simple "Die Spammer Die!"

Fox



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1687.e69fa74557118313b26108f91a9cd6fa.eml000066400000000000000000000070741444326627400310700ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Sat Sep 14 16:22:01 2002
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	by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0)
	for jm@localhost (single-drop); Sat, 14 Sep 2002 16:22:01 +0100 (IST)
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    g8DLXmC03388 for ; Fri, 13 Sep 2002 22:33:48 +0100
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    helo=usw-sf-list1.sourceforge.net) by usw-sf-list2.sourceforge.net with
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    by usw-sf-list1.sourceforge.net with esmtp (Exim 3.31-VA-mm2 #1 (Debian))
    id 17pxst-0008UB-00 for ;
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Message-Id: <3D8256E3.5040908@easydns.com>
From: Colin Viebrock 
Reply-To: colin@easydns.com
Organization: easyDNS Technologies Inc.
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.1)
    Gecko/20020826
X-Accept-Language: en-ca, en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
References: <010501c24f82$947b3340$7c640f0a@mfc.corp.mckee.com>
    
    <20020912121017.A2630@rover.vipul.net>
    <001601c25b31$80d2d0e0$7c640f0a@mfc.corp.mckee.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject: [Razor-users] Bug ... still
Sender: razor-users-admin@example.sourceforge.net
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X-Original-Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:21:39 -0400
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 17:21:39 -0400
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-3.0 required=7.0
	tests=AWL,FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,NOSPAM_INC,
	      REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01,USER_AGENT,X_ACCEPT_LANG
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Haven't heard anything about this, so excuse the repost but:

	http://sf.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=600311&
	  group_id=3978&atid=103978

Or should bugs be reported somewhere other than on the SF bug tracker?

- Colin




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1688.e2ef9f60c860b46bf3afcf1178378c3b.eml000066400000000000000000000067541444326627400313760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Mon Sep 16 15:30:51 2002
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From: Raido Kurel 
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Content-Type: text/plain
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MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11
Subject: [Razor-users] empty mail is spamm?
Sender: razor-users-admin@example.sourceforge.net
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X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=7.0
	tests=KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Hi,

Is it possible to use razor without filtering empty mails as spamm?
An mail with an attachment is considered spamm. Is this normal?
Or I mysqlf like to send emails to myself where all important is said in
subject and body is empty (for remaining smth).

Thanks,
Raido Kurel




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1689.5a669baf8c4fe834e29840d6e6bfd443.eml000066400000000000000000000106411444326627400313200ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Tue Sep 17 11:26:28 2002
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Delivered-To: yyyy@localhost.example.com
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	by jmason.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ED2216F03
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	by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.0)
	for jm@localhost (single-drop); Tue, 17 Sep 2002 11:26:27 +0100 (IST)
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    g8GIkfF12252; Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:46:41 -0700
From: Vipul Ved Prakash 
To: Raido Kurel 
Cc: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Razor-users] empty mail is spamm?
Message-Id: <20020916114641.B12169@rover.vipul.net>
Reply-To: mail@vipul.net
Mail-Followup-To: Raido Kurel ,
	razor-users@lists.sourceforge.net
References: <1032182191.9209.15.camel@pikk-koon-teravoga.mbp.ee>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i
In-Reply-To: <1032182191.9209.15.camel@pikk-koon-teravoga.mbp.ee>;
    from raido@elve.elin.ttu.ee on Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 04:16:31PM +0300
X-Operating-System: Linux rover.vipul.net 2.4.18
X-Privacy: If possible, encrypt your reply.  Key at http://vipul.net/
Sender: razor-users-admin@example.sourceforge.net
Errors-To: razor-users-admin@example.sourceforge.net
X-Beenthere: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
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Precedence: bulk
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X-Original-Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:46:41 -0700
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 11:46:41 -0700
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-16.2 required=7.0
	tests=EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,IN_REP_TO,
	      KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,
	      SIGNATURE_LONG_SPARSE,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02,USER_AGENT,
	      USER_AGENT_MUTT
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 

Razor won't filter empty emails. What version of the agents are you using?

cheers,
vipul.

On Mon, Sep 16, 2002 at 04:16:31PM +0300, Raido Kurel wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Is it possible to use razor without filtering empty mails as spamm?
> An mail with an attachment is considered spamm. Is this normal?
> Or I mysqlf like to send emails to myself where all important is said in
> subject and body is empty (for remaining smth).
> 
> Thanks,
> Raido Kurel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
> Welcome to geek heaven.
> http://thinkgeek.com/sf
> _______________________________________________
> Razor-users mailing list
> Razor-users@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/razor-users

-- 

Vipul Ved Prakash          |   "The future is here, it's just not 
Software Design Artist     |    widely distributed."
http://vipul.net/          |              -- William Gibson



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1690.0b46c8163c389f96d88717fcbe93684c.eml000066400000000000000000000050651444326627400311100ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: jm@jmason.org  Wed Sep 18 12:36:24 2002
Return-Path: 
Delivered-To: yyyy@example.com
Received: by example.com (Postfix, from userid 500)
	id 2B27716F18; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:36:24 +0100 (IST)
Received: from example.com (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by jmason.org (Postfix) with ESMTP
	id 28435F7B1; Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:36:24 +0100 (IST)
To: "Fox" 
Cc: "Justin Mason" , razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Razor-users] HTML Table - Razor Stats using -lm 4 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Fox"  
   of "Tue, 17 Sep 2002 18:01:40 EDT." <003d01c25e95$ccf547c0$7c640f0a@mfc.corp.mckee.com> 
From: yyyy@example.com (Justin Mason)
X-GPG-Key-Fingerprint: 0A48 2D8B 0B52 A87D 0E8A  6ADD 4137 1B50 6E58 EF0A
X-Habeas-Swe-1: winter into spring
X-Habeas-Swe-2: brightly anticipated
X-Habeas-Swe-3: like Habeas SWE (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-4: Copyright 2002 Habeas (tm)
X-Habeas-Swe-5: Sender Warranted Email (SWE) (tm). The sender of this
X-Habeas-Swe-6: email in exchange for a license for this Habeas
X-Habeas-Swe-7: warrant mark warrants that this is a Habeas Compliant
X-Habeas-Swe-8: Message (HCM) and not spam.  Please report use of this
X-Habeas-Swe-9: mark in spam to .
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 12:36:19 +0100
Sender: yyyy@example.com
Message-Id: <20020918113624.2B27716F18@example.com>
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-6.4 required=7.0
	tests=AWL,HABEAS_SWE,IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT
	version=2.50-cvs
X-Spam-Level: 


"Fox" said:

> Before or after I whitelisted all the legit mailing lists that Razor is
> tagging?  I had one false positive in the last four days.  Razor tagged some
> guys person-to-person message because he used an ostrich-in-your-face jpeg
> that is probably pretty popular on the net, and -lm 4 means any single
> attachment in a message that is razored, razors the whole message, if I
> understand it correctly.

Razor folks: is -lm documented anywhere?   BTW, I notice all my *.conf
files in ~/.razor use "lm = 4" by default anyway.

> No, I am not keeping official tally of false positives.  I need to write a
> html interface to do it, and then it would be easy.  I imagine you want
> false positive rate per filter.  I will work on it tomorrow, and maybe in a
> week I will have some stats for false positives.

Yeah, that'd be cool -- much appreciated!   comparing text classifiers
like spam filters, without tracking FPs, is not good.   After all, "cat >
/dev/null" gets a 100% hit rate, but without the FP rate figure of, let's
say 90%, you'd never know it was a bad thing to do ;)

--j.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1691.dc18b18697ac2c2d7e5024eb8be84ecb.eml000066400000000000000000000127671444326627400314420ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep 19 13:01:03 2002
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--huq684BweRXVnRxX
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Gary Funck  [2002-09-18 13:57:00 -0700]:
> In my experience, there are spam messages that sneak past Spam Assassin,
> that Razor will pick up. Those are the ones that I'm calling "marginal".
> Basically, I'm hoping that "the collective" of Razor users make a better
> judge of spam than any single program like SA can, and therefore I can
> benefit from their judgement and get more extensive spam filtering. I've
> seen examples of this already, where SA doesn't score the spam high enough
> to bounce it, but Razor does.

I think perhaps you missed the fact that SA scores are adjustable.  If
you want SA to tag all messages listed in Razor then you can put this
in your ~/.spamassassin/user_prefs file.

  score RAZOR_CHECK 10

The default score is 3 and the default threshold needed is 5.
Therefore if you wish to have any razor listed messages tagged by SA
then setting a score for any razor listed messages to anything above 5
would be sufficient.

If you are already using SA then the above would be more efficient.
Otherwise you are running all of the mail through razor twice, once
for SA and once again afterward.  If you really want to run Razor
individually then you should set the 'score RAZOR_CHECK 0' so that SA
won't do it and avoid the double network hit.

However, one of the benefits of using SA in combination with Razor has
been the history of false positive reports in the razor database.  The
current score of 3 is hefty, but not enough by itself to tag as spam.
But for any real spam is usually enough to push it over the threshold.
Razor2 addresses the false positive problem but is not yet in as wide
of use as Razor1.

Bob

--huq684BweRXVnRxX
Content-Type: application/pgp-signature
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE9iV7k0pRcO8E2ULYRAjoAAJ97CB6LpbhPHqa8IJx1l4g/LRiVdwCfUZIB
kUAK30zsRWL8PTb1TrEQuy8=
=XVm6
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--huq684BweRXVnRxX--


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From: "Boniforti Flavio" 
To: "'Santiago Vila'" 
Cc: 
Subject: RE: [Razor-users] RE: Re: Some startup questions...
Organization: Informa Srl
Message-Id: <002201c25fae$ee1188f0$7c00a8c0@cover.it>
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> I suggest that you use a normal user to start. Once you are familiar
> enough with razor and understand how it works, try the complex things
> like integration with the MTA and the like.

OK, but do I have to launch that command as "root" or what?

Thank you




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1693.7f09ce3481097bd97b4962a24068465a.eml000066400000000000000000000074541444326627400307360ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep 19 17:47:31 2002
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From: "Fox" 
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Subject: [Razor-users] The -lm 4 blues
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	      REFERENCES
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X-Spam-Level: 

Using -lm 4 is yielding an extra 20% a day, but it gets false positives
where it shouldn't.

Such as an email with a Word doc and the signature below.  After looking at
the Word doc, directions to the sender's cabin, I am convinced it marked the
body, which contains no next except the "IncrediMail advertisment"
signature, as spam.

So I have to turn off -lm 4.  Razor has been getting other strange emails it
shouldn't with -lm 4 on.

      See the incredimail ad signature I am talking about below:

      Fox



____________________________________________________
  IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1694.597f15f5a0b581adc3126199cc7ed066.eml000066400000000000000000000105601444326627400311350ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep 19 17:47:42 2002
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From: Mike Burger 
To: Boniforti Flavio 
Cc: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Razor-users] Razor: shall I use it with AMaViS or with
    SpamAssassin?
In-Reply-To: <002401c25fb5$2de16260$7c00a8c0@cover.it>
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	tests=AWL,EMAIL_ATTRIBUTION,FORGED_RCVD_TRAIL,IN_REP_TO,
	      KNOWN_MAILING_LIST,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES,
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X-Spam-Level: 

Depends on how you want to use it.

The default setup of running it from procmail works just fine, as long as 
you remember to go into your postfix/main.cf file, and tell it to use 
procmail instead of the internal delivery agent.

On Thu, 19 Sep 2002, Boniforti Flavio wrote:

> How do I intergrate razor into my postfix setup? Will it have to
> interact with AMaViS or with SpamAssassin?
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Boniforti Flavio
> Informa Srl
> Via 42 Martiri, 165
> 28924 Verbania (VB)
> Tel +39 0323 586216
> Fax +39 0323 586672
> http://www.co-ver.it/informa
> 
> 
> 
> 
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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1695.647eca914347c9a615c5a1bd1453319b.eml000066400000000000000000000111151444326627400310400ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Sep 19 17:49:35 2002
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From: Jeffrey Taylor 
To: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Razor-users] Using razor with maildrop
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X-Spam-Level: 


Here is my recipe for Maildrop:

# Vipul's Razor check
#
log `/usr/bin/razor-check`
log "razor-check = $RETURNCODE"
if ( $RETURNCODE == 0 )
{
  xfilter "reformail -a'X-Razor: SPAM'"
  log "SPAM caught by Vipul's Razor"
  to "$FOLDERS/.SPAM/"
}

I used this with Razor version 1.  I'm not sure if it was ever used
with Razor2.  I am now using SpamAssassin w/ Razor2.  You may wish to
remove the log statements once running.

I use both.  SpamAssassin (SA) catches things that Razor does not.  There
were enough false positives with Razor that I do not trust it alone.
After whitelisting all the newsletters I receive, SA w/ Razor2 does a
very good job.

HTH,
  Jeffrey


Quoting Sunil William Savkar :
> Hi.
>
> I just finished installing and getting running maildrop with my virtual
> users.  I was thinking to set up razor with maildrop as my first test of
> its filtering capabilities..
>
> I have seen documentation out there for procmail, but is there similar
> documentation for integrating maildrop with razor?
> 
>  
> 
> Separately, it looks like many people use spamassassin with razor.  If I
> am using razor2, is there still an advantage to this?
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
>  
> 
> Sunil
> 


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1696.7e22fd3302271b7e8cb745edb9254c71.eml000066400000000000000000000126301444326627400311320ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Sat Sep 21 10:41:08 2002
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Subject: Re: [Razor-users] Using razor with maildrop
From: "Sunil William Savkar" 
To: 
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Jeff--

What is the maildrop recipe you use with spamassassin?  I was trying to
set mine up but I am running into a few difficulties.

I think I will try spamassassin first and see how it goes, and then
perhaps fold in razor2... is it easy to fold in?

Sunil

>
> Here is my recipe for Maildrop:
>
> # Vipul's Razor check
> #
> log `/usr/bin/razor-check`
> log "razor-check = $RETURNCODE"
> if ( $RETURNCODE == 0 )
> {
>   xfilter "reformail -a'X-Razor: SPAM'"
>   log "SPAM caught by Vipul's Razor"
>   to "$FOLDERS/.SPAM/"
> }
>
> I used this with Razor version 1.  I'm not sure if it was ever used with
> Razor2.  I am now using SpamAssassin w/ Razor2.  You may wish to remove
> the log statements once running.
>
> I use both.  SpamAssassin (SA) catches things that Razor does not.
> There were enough false positives with Razor that I do not trust it
> alone. After whitelisting all the newsletters I receive, SA w/ Razor2
> does a very good job.
>
> HTH,
>   Jeffrey
>
>
> Quoting Sunil William Savkar :
>> Hi.
>>
>> I just finished installing and getting running maildrop with my
>> virtual users.  I was thinking to set up razor with maildrop as my
>> first test of its filtering capabilities..
>>
>> I have seen documentation out there for procmail, but is there similar
>> documentation for integrating maildrop with razor?
>>
>>
>>
>> Separately, it looks like many people use spamassassin with razor.  If
>> I am using razor2, is there still an advantage to this?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sunil
>>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
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I received a spam email that had apparently forged the From header with
my own email address. After reviewing the message I forwarded it with
the rest of a batch of spam ti the database with razor-report. Now of,
course, my own email address is listed int he Razor database. How do I
go about getting it removed.

I have seen this ploy (forged From headers) several time since then.
Perhaps the razor-report need to detect this and emit a warning.

dave





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Vipul Ved Prakash said:

> Are there any suggestions for "fixing" this in razor-agents? razor-agents
> could write to syslog by default, but I am not sure if that would be
> desirable default behaviour...

Hi Vipul,

I reckon if the "unwritable log file" error condition could be caught by
Razor and handled gracefully (logging to syslog or /dev/null), it'd be a
great help.

As it stands, if the log file is unwritable, the razor check falls over
entirely as the constructor returns undef (unblessed reference = 'die'
error in perl).

--j.


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1699.de71400a0100dbf05e05230d7e422a29.eml000066400000000000000000000062211444326627400310060ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Wed Sep 25 21:24:59 2002
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I'm getting "no servers available" about half the time in the last few days.
This is with Razor 2. Is there something I need adjust in the installation
here, or are the servers just down/overloaded?

Thanks,
Whit


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From: Dayv Gastonguay 
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I just installed razor 2.152 on a FreeBSD 4.4-RELEASE box and having
problems with razor-check.  Any time razor-check is run, (with or without
arguments), i get this error:

Can't use an undefined value as a symbol reference at
/usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.005/i386-freebsd/Razor2/Client/Agent.pm
line 756.

razor-admin runs just fine and the make test before the install was all
ok.

Has anyone seen this before?

Module versions:
Digest-HMAC-1.01
Digest-MD5-2.20
Digest-Nilsimsa-0.06
Digest-SHA1-2.01
MIME-Base64-2.12
Net-DNS-0.23
Test-Simple-0.44
Time-HiRes-01.20
URI-1.19






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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1701.39d6d3507aa62320295032f0c0e4435c.eml000066400000000000000000000075551444326627400306640ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Mon Sep 30 21:44:28 2002
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> Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 14:00:12 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Dayv Gastonguay 
>
> I just installed razor 2.152 on a FreeBSD 4.4-RELEASE box and having
> problems with razor-check.  Any time razor-check is run, (with or without
> arguments), i get this error:
>
> Can't use an undefined value as a symbol reference at
> /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.005/i386-freebsd/Razor2/Client/Agent.pm
> line 756.
>
 Try installing the latest Perl (at least 5.6.1) port on Freebsd and make
sure you set the system to use perl from ports (i.e. in the
ports/lang/perl5/files directory run ./use.perl port. Reinstall the relevant
perl modules needed by razor and try again.

Sven



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1702.cbf24a3d72463a352831af8e23b02cc1.eml000066400000000000000000000064761444326627400311620ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Oct  3 12:22:15 2002
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I noticed a drop in checks, and did some tests.  If I move truth up in
my catalog list, a check comes back postive, but if I move fire up in
the list, then I don't get the positive check back.  It's almost like
it's not syncing up with Hubris which is the one my reports are getting
sent to.

-=Bobby


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1703.7c5ad732db66343c7c8c05b7bc66e811.eml000066400000000000000000000071171444326627400312040ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Oct  3 12:23:27 2002
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What does this mean?  I set up procmailrc for a spamtrap but I'm getting
an error.  I also am reporting to pyzor and dcc and they aren't
registering an error.  What's weird is that it works sometimes.

.
Oct 02 23:46:11.470523 report[14051]: [ 4] honor.cloudmark.com >> 20
Oct 02 23:46:11.470805 report[14051]: [ 6] response to sent.3
-res=1
err=230
.
Oct 02 23:46:11.471825 report[14051]: [ 5] mail 1, orig_email, special
case eng 1: Server accept
ed report.
Oct 02 23:46:11.472228 report[14051]: [ 8] mail 1.0, eng 4: err 230 -
server wants mail


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1704.98026ace6376f17790b5fa811ed10d34.eml000066400000000000000000000064121444326627400310430ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Oct  3 12:23:28 2002
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I recently brought up a new system - SuSe 7.3 and I am running
spamassassin and procmail, which work fine.

I tried bringing up razor (2.14) but I am not able to get the SDK to
install and razor reports missing modules. They appear to be there. I
followed the installation directions. There appears to be an endless list
of errors. Any ideas on what to do or where to start?

Doug




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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1705.d042ec093f873897ebf5146274dc2a20.eml000066400000000000000000000127201444326627400310440ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Oct  3 12:23:43 2002
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From: Jordan Ritter 
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Subject: Re: [Razor-users] Fire.cloudmark.com is having issues
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--CE+1k2dSO48ffgeK
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Error 230 occurs when you report a signature, but the server doesn't
know about the signature, so it wants the full content.  It's
basically an optimization. =20

Beyond that, I'm not sure how to interpret that output.. what version?
Vipul?

--jordan

On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 11:59:01PM -0400, Rose, Bobby wrote:
# What does this mean?  I set up procmailrc for a spamtrap but I'm getting
# an error.  I also am reporting to pyzor and dcc and they aren't
# registering an error.  What's weird is that it works sometimes.
#=20
# .
# Oct 02 23:46:11.470523 report[14051]: [ 4] honor.cloudmark.com >> 20
# Oct 02 23:46:11.470805 report[14051]: [ 6] response to sent.3
# -res=3D1
# err=3D230
# .
# Oct 02 23:46:11.471825 report[14051]: [ 5] mail 1, orig_email, special
# case eng 1: Server accept
# ed report.
# Oct 02 23:46:11.472228 report[14051]: [ 8] mail 1.0, eng 4: err 230 -
# server wants mail
#=20
#=20
# -------------------------------------------------------
# This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
# Welcome to geek heaven.
# http://thinkgeek.com/sf
# _______________________________________________
# Razor-users mailing list
# Razor-users@lists.sourceforge.net
# https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/razor-users

--CE+1k2dSO48ffgeK
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.0 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE9m9OxpwQdAVEbU7oRAifiAKCSXxSTb64bYgzo8PiXVVswqkXCKgCgnqby
YYrMsnaQOrQvEb7cDw5jios=
=SBk3
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--CE+1k2dSO48ffgeK--


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1706.7b84ac072540d25d70de818843a1e921.eml000066400000000000000000000113501444326627400307540ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Oct  3 12:25:24 2002
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From: Vipul Ved Prakash 
To: razor-users@example.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Razor-users] Fire.cloudmark.com is having issues
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X-Spam-Level: 

If you examine the log further, you'll see debug messages generated by the
(content) reporting process that follows error 230.

On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 10:20:49PM -0700, Jordan Ritter wrote:
> Error 230 occurs when you report a signature, but the server doesn't
> know about the signature, so it wants the full content.  It's
> basically an optimization.  
> 
> Beyond that, I'm not sure how to interpret that output.. what version?
> Vipul?
> 
> On Wed, Oct 02, 2002 at 11:59:01PM -0400, Rose, Bobby wrote:
> # What does this mean?  I set up procmailrc for a spamtrap but I'm getting
> # an error.  I also am reporting to pyzor and dcc and they aren't
> # registering an error.  What's weird is that it works sometimes.
> # 
> # .
> # Oct 02 23:46:11.470523 report[14051]: [ 4] honor.cloudmark.com >> 20
> # Oct 02 23:46:11.470805 report[14051]: [ 6] response to sent.3
> # -res=1
> # err=230
> # .
> # Oct 02 23:46:11.471825 report[14051]: [ 5] mail 1, orig_email, special
> # case eng 1: Server accept
> # ed report.
> # Oct 02 23:46:11.472228 report[14051]: [ 8] mail 1.0, eng 4: err 230 -
> # server wants mail




-- 

Vipul Ved Prakash          |   "The future is here, it's just not 
Software Design Artist     |    widely distributed yet."
http://vipul.net/          |              -- William Gibson



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1707.5c6277e057c0b3238b03d60de3109e8e.eml000066400000000000000000000077231444326627400310440ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Oct  3 19:28:23 2002
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I'm still seeing razor reporting bomb out with a small variety of messages.
Would reinitializing something here help, or does razor do that as needed
anyway, and this just reflects trouble at the servers?

Also, since these are reports I'm making from within Mutt, it's annoying
that the error messages garble the X window a bit. If there's nothing
constructive to do about razor failing, can I at least turn off the failure
messages? One way or the other I'd rather not see them.

Whit 

On Wed, Sep 25, 2002 at 12:57:13PM -0400, Whit Blauvelt wrote:
> I'm getting "no servers available" about half the time in the last few days.
> This is with Razor 2. Is there something I need adjust in the installation
> here, or are the servers just down/overloaded?
> 
> Thanks,
> Whit


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1708.0c3b6a8fbd582be37cb1fc8438a3ed84.eml000066400000000000000000000070411444326627400314250ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Oct  3 19:28:37 2002
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Subject: [Razor-users] problems with hubris and/or discovery
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trying to report spam [razor chooses hubris] I timeout on the connection
(which seems to have gotten slower all morning) and receive the following
error message:

razor-report error: connect4: nextserver: discover1: Error reading socket
connect4: nextserver: discover1: Error reading socket

I then try to run razor-admin -discover and receive the same error .....
problems with the servers today? only one discovery server?

Sven



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From: Jordan Ritter 
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Subject: Re: [Razor-users] problems with hubris and/or discovery
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Folks,

     There have been several major internet outages this morning,
     across major providers UUNet, Genuity, and god knows who else.
     Various routes across the Internet backbones have been
     disappearing, repropagating, and disappearing again.

     This has caused and exacerbated several problems which we are
     working on correcting right now.  We apologize for the
     inconvenience..

Best,=20

--jordan



On Thu, Oct 03, 2002 at 01:18:25PM -0400, Sven Willenberger wrote:
# trying to report spam [razor chooses hubris] I timeout on the connection
# (which seems to have gotten slower all morning) and receive the following
# error message:
#=20
# razor-report error: connect4: nextserver: discover1: Error reading socket
# connect4: nextserver: discover1: Error reading socket
#=20
# I then try to run razor-admin -discover and receive the same error .....
# problems with the servers today? only one discovery server?
#=20
# Sven
#=20
#=20
#=20
# -------------------------------------------------------
# This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek
# Welcome to geek heaven.
# http://thinkgeek.com/sf
# _______________________________________________
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Subject: [Razor-users] FW: [EVENT NOTIFICATION] UUnet North American
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For everyone's benefit/edification, regardless of Razor usage.

--jordan

-----Original Message-----
From: InterNAP Backbone Status Reports [mailto:noc@internap.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 11:30 AM
To: InterNAP Backbone Status Reports
Subject: [EVENT NOTIFICATION] UUnet North American Backbone Problems
20021003@06:00 PDT [TIX106448] (fwd)


Hello,

I have just spoken with an UUnet technician at 11:23 PDT and he was unable
to provide me with any new information regarding the outage.  He did
confirm that problems had spread beyond the east coast and are now seen
nationwide through out their network.  They are currently working with
their hardware vendor to try and isolate the issue.

A large number of Internap's connections to UUnet remain shutdown and
traffic is being routed over alternate providers.  The scale of this
outage is causing a large number of peering points with UUnet and other
providers to be flooded due to the large traffic shifts.

If you have problems reaching specific sites please send an email to
noc@internap.com containing a traceroute and source/destination IP
addresses and we will investigate.  If it is possible will will attempt to
move specific prefixes onto an alternate provider leaving an Internap PNAP
if that will provide better performance.

Regards,
Andrew

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Dul                                 Network Operations Center
InterNAP Network Services                   E-Mail: noc@internap.com
andrew@internap.com                    206.256.9500 - 1.877.THE.INOC

The contents of this email message are confidential and proprietary.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 08:51:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Dul 
Subject: [EVENT NOTIFICATION] UUnet North American Backbone Problems
    [TIX106448]


UUnet is currently experiencing a large number of problems in their North
American backbone.  Internap has been aware of these problems since approx
06:00 PST.  Most of the problems appear to be concentrated on the East
Coast but we have reports of problems from other geographic regions.

This is being tracked under Internap ticket 106448 and UUnet master ticket
651751.

UUnet currently does not have any ETA for a fix for this event.

If you have issues reaching a specific site please send an email to
noc@internap.com with a traceroute showing the path which has a problem.

Internap has shutdown peerings to UUnet is various cities to help reduce
the number of problems that customers will experience.

Regards,
Andrew

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Dul                                 Network Operations Center
InterNAP Network Services                   E-Mail: noc@internap.com
andrew@internap.com                    206.256.9500 - 1.877.THE.INOC

The contents of this email message are confidential and proprietary.


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Subject: [Razor-users] Razor and Pine
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I've been testing Razor, invoked from sendmail/procmail and so far it
seems pretty copacetic. Last night's spam to the list provided a good test
- the spam itself as well as several of the responses were flagged, as
other list members reported.

This morning I piped the messages out from pine, being careful to use the
RAW mode, to razor-check -d. None of the messages come back as spam, even
the spam. Since folks revoked the false positives, I understand why they
would not come up, but not the spam itself, unless that also was revoked.

Is this spam just a bad one to test against, or is there some setting in
pine or razor that I am missing?

-- 
sc



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Subject: Re: [Razor-users] Razor and Pine
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On Wed, 9 Oct 2002 09:15:03 -0400 (EDT), Samuel Checker  wrote:

> I've been testing Razor, invoked from sendmail/procmail and so far it
> seems pretty copacetic. Last night's spam to the list provided a good test
> - the spam itself as well as several of the responses were flagged, as
> other list members reported.
> 
> This morning I piped the messages out from pine, being careful to use the
> RAW mode, to razor-check -d. None of the messages come back as spam, even
> the spam. Since folks revoked the false positives, I understand why they
> would not come up, but not the spam itself, unless that also was revoked.
> 
> Is this spam just a bad one to test against, or is there some setting in
> pine or razor that I am missing?

    Are you using Spamassassin on the input side?  I've just changed my sendmail installation and am looking for the 'proper' way to pass it through there, systemwide, before accepting it and sending it to the users.  It's kinda problematic to set up procmail scripts for every user, when the user's home directories are NFS mounted....and the source is on my own machine, on which I try new things. (And it's the only machine with the drivespace...)
  
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Fahrl�nder              Linux Zealot, Conservative, and Technomad
Evansville, IN                    My Voyage: http://www.CounterMoon.com
ICQ  5119262
------------------------------------------------------------------------
angegangen, Schlange-H�ften, sein es ganz r�ber jetzt. B�gel innen fest,
weil es eine lange, s�sse Fahrt ist. 


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1717.788ae3994073913e51498a96cd1d3662.eml000066400000000000000000000113721444326627400306570ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Wed Oct  9 18:17:52 2002
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Subject: Re: [Razor-users] Razor and Pine
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On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Brian Fahrlander wrote:

> On Wed, 9 Oct 2002 09:15:03 -0400 (EDT), Samuel Checker  wrote:
>
> > I've been testing Razor, invoked from sendmail/procmail and so far it
> > seems pretty copacetic. Last night's spam to the list provided a good test
> > - the spam itself as well as several of the responses were flagged, as
> > other list members reported.
> >
>
>     Are you using Spamassassin on the input side?  I've just changed my sendmail installation and am looking for the 'proper' way to pass it through there, systemwide, before accepting it and sending it to the users.  It's kinda problematic to set up procmail scripts for every user, when the user's home directories are NFS mounted....and the source is on my own machine, on which I try new things. (And it's the only machine with the drivespace...)
>

I've not used Spamassassin on the KISS principle. I just have procmail
adding an X-header and optionally modifying the Subject if razor-check
comes back positive.

-- 
sc



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1718.dd3ab0a21ff132982fbde9b8712d5258.eml000066400000000000000000000105171444326627400312630ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: razor-users-admin@lists.sourceforge.net  Thu Oct 10 12:29:00 2002
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Subject: [Razor-users] razor vs cloudmark - merging?
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I am somewhat puzzled by a phone call I (or rather the CIO at the ISP for
whom I work) received from an individual claiming to represent Cloudmark.
The gist of the call was that since we were using razor and checking our
mail against the razor servers and that since those servers contain
information proprietary to Cloudmark, we would [in the near future?] be
required to begin paying Cloudmark/spamnet $1.00/user per year. I was
wondering if anyone else has received such a call?

I am curious as to whether a spammer has begun to try contacting razor users
with the above tactic in an effort to get them to stop using razor or
whether the open source/community aspect of the razor project is going by
the wayside in lieu of a strictly commercial approach (ala brightmail and
the likes).

Sven



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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1719.2b32c9b1de123d4084f9555e8bbfbfe1.eml000066400000000000000000000122521444326627400313430ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: bmord@icon-nicholson.com  Wed Sep  4 19:11:17 2002
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From: bmord@icon-nicholson.com (Ben Mord)
To: "Webappsec Securityfocus.Com" ,
	"SECPROG Securityfocus" 
Subject: use of base image / delta image for automated recovery from attacks
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 15:04:27 -0400
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Hi,

I was inspired by a mode of operation supported by VMWare. You can have a
base disk image shared by multiple virtual machine (vm) instances. That base
image is never altered by a vm instance. Instead, each vm instance writes
changes to its own "redo" log. Future hard disk reads from that vm instance
incorporate both the base image and the appropriate redo log to present the
current disk image for that specific virtual machine.

This is described here (thanks to Duane for providing this link on the
honeypots mailing list)
http://www.vmware.com/support/reference/common/disk_sharing.html

Could this basic concept be used to easily make self-fixing client/server
applications that efficiently and automatically recover from most attacks,
even before those attacks have been discovered? Here is what I imagine.

The physical architectures of most production client/server systems are
layered. For example, your basic web application might have a web server
running Apache, connected to an application server running some J2EE or .Net
business logic, connected to a database server for persistence. The only one
of these whose disk image really should evolve over time is the database
server, and even here you often put the static RDBMS software on one
partition and the changeable datafiles on another partition. It is only the
partition with the volatile datafiles that must be allowed to change from
one boot to the next. Other paritions may need to be writable for, say, swap
space, but these changes could be eliminated on each reboot.

When someone cracks this system, they will probably change an image that
shouldn't be changed. E.g., they might leverage a buffer overflow in IIS or
Apache to install a trojan or a backdoor on the more exposed web server. But
what if the web server ran off a base image, writing changes to a "delta" or
"redo" partition? And then what if every night it automatically erased the
redo partition and rebooted? The downtime involved for each machine would be
minimal, because it is only deleting data - rather than restoring from
backup. In a system with redundant web servers for load balancing or high
availability, this could be scheduled in a way such that the system is
always accessible. This base/redo partition concept could be implemented at
the same level as a feature of hardware RAID, allowing for greater
performance, reliability, and hack resistance. This concept could also be
applied to the application servers, and even the database server partitions
(except for those partitions which contain the table data files, of course.)

Does anyone do this already? Or is this a new concept? Or has this concept
been discussed before and abandoned for some reasons that I don't yet know?
I use the physical architecture of a basic web application as an example in
this post, but this concept could of course be applied to most server
systems. It would allow for the hardware-separation of volatile and
non-volatile disk images. It would be analogous to performing nightly
ghosting operations, only it would be more efficient and involve less (or
no) downtime.

Thanks for any opinions,
Ben


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1720.b17e78a9a5d7145aa8deffc671ace997.eml000066400000000000000000000070551444326627400314470ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: strange@nsk.yi.org  Thu Sep  5 11:26:30 2002
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On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 09:03:40PM -0400, Yannick Gingras wrote:
> This make me wonder about the relative protection of smart cards.  They have 
> an internal procession unit around 4MHz.  Can we consider them as trusted 
> hardware ?  The ability to ship smart cards periodicaly uppon cashing of a 
> monthly subscription fee would not raise too much the cost of "renting" the 
> system.  Smart card do their own self encryption.  Can they be used to 
> decrypt data needed by the system ?  The input of the system could me mangled 
> and the would keep a reference of how long it was in service.
> 
> This sounds really feasible but I may be totaly wrong.  I may also be wrong 
> about the safety of a smart card.  
> 
> What do you think ?

That's similar to using hard-locks (either the old parallel, or the new
usb).

The problem is that that piece of hardware is trustworthy, but the rest of
the PC isn't, so a cracker just needs to simulate the lock/smart card, or
peek at the executable after the lock has been deactivated.

Regards,
Luciano Rocha

-- 
Consciousness: that annoying time between naps.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1721.2f654b5e99867bebf86ebb0280fb8e48.eml000066400000000000000000000174511444326627400313170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: GlennEverhart@firstusa.com  Thu Sep  5 11:26:32 2002
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I did something crudely along those lines for VMS VAX maybe 13 years
ago; there is at least one product that does it for PC though I don't
recall its name. It is also handy for cases where you have a CD image
of some filesystem (or some other image of a filesystem) that is
intrinsically readonly but whose filesystem will not accept (or is
not graceful) readonly storage. It is also more or less necessary
if you want to work with WORM file structures, which are older still.
There have been a number of filesystems for those dating back to the
early 1980s if not before.

A generic facility of the type you mention is also one way to implement
snapshots on top of an existing filesystem. The written information
must (obviously!) be seekable so you can provide the illusion that you
wrote to the storage. A device level implementation is however perfectly
adequate.

It does not, of course, distinguish for you what should have been changed
and what should not. If you truly know a device (or perhaps a partition)
must not be written, it can be simpler to either return error on writes,
or to just return a fake success on writes yet discard the data. (NTFS
lives with the latter strategy just fine from my experiments. I have not
tried it on extf3 or reiser.) 

BTW, think about your mention of RAID and consider the complexity of
writing to RAID4 or RAID5...
I would contend that with cheaper storage these days, it makes little sense
to use RAID, save for shadowing and possibly striping. Those at least do
not have the complexity and slowup dangers that higher RAID levels have, and
there is not a need to save the cost of disk so much where a single disk
may hold 200 gigs and up. Why not dedicate another whole disk to fault
recovery
and lose the complexity and slow write (sometimes) of RAID?

Glenn Everhart


-----Original Message-----
From: bmord@icon-nicholson.com [mailto:bmord@icon-nicholson.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2002 3:04 PM
To: Webappsec Securityfocus.Com; SECPROG Securityfocus
Subject: use of base image / delta image for automated recovery from
attacks


Hi,

I was inspired by a mode of operation supported by VMWare. You can have a
base disk image shared by multiple virtual machine (vm) instances. That base
image is never altered by a vm instance. Instead, each vm instance writes
changes to its own "redo" log. Future hard disk reads from that vm instance
incorporate both the base image and the appropriate redo log to present the
current disk image for that specific virtual machine.

This is described here (thanks to Duane for providing this link on the
honeypots mailing list)
http://www.vmware.com/support/reference/common/disk_sharing.html

Could this basic concept be used to easily make self-fixing client/server
applications that efficiently and automatically recover from most attacks,
even before those attacks have been discovered? Here is what I imagine.

The physical architectures of most production client/server systems are
layered. For example, your basic web application might have a web server
running Apache, connected to an application server running some J2EE or .Net
business logic, connected to a database server for persistence. The only one
of these whose disk image really should evolve over time is the database
server, and even here you often put the static RDBMS software on one
partition and the changeable datafiles on another partition. It is only the
partition with the volatile datafiles that must be allowed to change from
one boot to the next. Other paritions may need to be writable for, say, swap
space, but these changes could be eliminated on each reboot.

When someone cracks this system, they will probably change an image that
shouldn't be changed. E.g., they might leverage a buffer overflow in IIS or
Apache to install a trojan or a backdoor on the more exposed web server. But
what if the web server ran off a base image, writing changes to a "delta" or
"redo" partition? And then what if every night it automatically erased the
redo partition and rebooted? The downtime involved for each machine would be
minimal, because it is only deleting data - rather than restoring from
backup. In a system with redundant web servers for load balancing or high
availability, this could be scheduled in a way such that the system is
always accessible. This base/redo partition concept could be implemented at
the same level as a feature of hardware RAID, allowing for greater
performance, reliability, and hack resistance. This concept could also be
applied to the application servers, and even the database server partitions
(except for those partitions which contain the table data files, of course.)

Does anyone do this already? Or is this a new concept? Or has this concept
been discussed before and abandoned for some reasons that I don't yet know?
I use the physical architecture of a basic web application as an example in
this post, but this concept could of course be applied to most server
systems. It would allow for the hardware-separation of volatile and
non-volatile disk images. It would be analogous to performing nightly
ghosting operations, only it would be more efficient and involve less (or
no) downtime.

Thanks for any opinions,
Ben


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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1722.0ace94ca1a8eebbca0c096f2bfc89cc3.eml000066400000000000000000000066741444326627400317170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: secprog-return-492-jm=jmason.org@securityfocus.com  Fri Sep  6 11:36:01 2002
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Scott MacKenzie wrote:

>There is a software package that is used (or was up through w2k) 
>on MicroSloth for this purpose. Ghost, or some such. One essentially 
>"takes a picture" of the machine's proper config, and then upon 
>schedule or demand replaces the machine's current config with the 
>proper picture. It essentially over-writes the entire disk drive. 
>Especially good for student access machines at libraries, etc.
>
And it is pretty common practice in some environments with public 
workstations to just wipe and re-install Windows machines on a weekly 
(or even daily) basis. It's easier than trying to maintain Windows.

Crispin

-- 
Crispin Cowan, Ph.D.
Chief Scientist, WireX                      http://wirex.com/~crispin/
Security Hardened Linux Distribution:       http://immunix.org
Available for purchase: http://wirex.com/Products/Immunix/purchase.html




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1723.b0f1f64188b8bac77aacad3b27b749d5.eml000066400000000000000000000067631444326627400314310ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: secprog-return-482-jm=jmason.org@securityfocus.com  Fri Sep  6 11:36:07 2002
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From: Jef Feltman 
Subject: RE: Secure Sofware Key
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the only way to insure a safe key is to use all the storage space in the
universe. too big to decrypt.

my point is there will never be a "safe" key. what I would consider is how
long does the data need to be protected. if you need to protect the data for
longer than 6 months, do not release it to the public. if you are trying to
stop the general public (your customer) from coping the data then use what
is available on the market. If you want to stop the bootleggers do not
release the data to the public.

I have never seen a lock that could not be unlocked. the act of unlocking
the key gives away it's secret.

the tougher the lock the more pissed-off your customers will be. take MS-XP
for example. only the home user is forced to register. think of the
nightmare if business had to register every copy. how many times have we
needed to reinstall our laptop OS? notice the amount of Mac's sold after the
XP release. these where mostly home users that converted to Mac OS.

the new Audio CD's that have digital copy protection so not play on my
computer. does this stop me from copying the CD? no. however it does make me
return them and get my money back.

the more popular the software the more likely it is to be cracked.

jef



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1724.fd2c1f2000f8b5b8042872435656619d.eml000066400000000000000000000076341444326627400307100ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: secprog-return-490-jm=jmason.org@securityfocus.com  Fri Sep  6 11:37:35 2002
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> Simple approxmation to this: make /usr a separate partion, and mount it=
=20
> read-only:
>=20
>    * The good news: attackers that want to trojan your software have to
>      reboot, at least.
>    * The bad news: administrators that want to update your software
>      have to reboot, at least.

No reboot is required, you just need to remount it:

	# mount -o remount,rw /usr

This requires root access, but presumably /usr is safe from non-root
users anyway.

Only way to disable this is to have the kernel compiled with something
that compartmentalizes capabilities (LIDS/etc on Linux for example) or to
remove CAP_SYS_ADMIN with lcap, which would definately require a reboot,
and possibly break some other functionatily to boot.  (Pun intended.  My
apologies.)

--
Brian Hatch                  "Are you expected?"
   Systems and               "No.  Dreaded."
   Security Engineer
www.hackinglinuxexposed.com

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golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1725.4b7434da4269db27bd237dde1d03db92.eml000066400000000000000000000153051444326627400312550ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: secprog-return-493-jm=jmason.org@securityfocus.com  Fri Sep  6 11:37:38 2002
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There is a software package that is used (or was up through w2k) 
on MicroSloth for this purpose. Ghost, or some such. One essentially 
"takes a picture" of the machine's proper config, and then upon 
schedule or demand replaces the machine's current config with the 
proper picture. It essentially over-writes the entire disk drive. 
Especially good for student access machines at libraries, etc.

Ben Mord wrote:
> 
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Crispin Cowan [mailto:crispin@wirex.com]
>   Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 5:46 PM
>   To: Ben Mord
>   Cc: Webappsec Securityfocus.Com; SECPROG Securityfocus
>   Subject: Re: use of base image / delta image for automated recovery from
>  attacks
> 
> >  I did my dissertation work in this area (Optimistic Computing) and so was
> >interested in applying it to the security problem. Unfortunately, you hit a
> >bunch of problems:
> 
> >    a.. When can you "commit" a state as being "good"?  You can't run from
> a
> >redo log forever; the performance and storage penalties accumulate. Even
> log
> >structured file systems garbage collect eventually. So you have to commit
> >sometime. The problem is that if you commit too eagerly, you might commit
> >corrupted state. If you commit too conservatively, you eat performance and
> >storage penalties.
> >    b.. What do you do if you discover that there is corrupted state in the
> >*middle* of your redo log, and you want some of the critical state that
> >comes after it? You need some way to dig the corruption out of the middle
> >and save the rest. My dissertation solves this problem, but you have to
> >re-write everything in my programming language :)
> .    c.. Just doing this at all imposes substantial performance penalties. I
> >love VMWare, and use it every day (the best $200 I ever spent on software)
> >.but it is not very fast.
> 
> My proposed solution to the first two problems you mention is to be less
> ambitious. The idea is that you *never* commit - instead, you simply revert
> to base state on reboot. Obviously, you can't do this with partitions that
> accrue important state, e.g. a partition that stores database table data.
> But in your typical web application, most partitions do not accrue important
> state. For example, your typical web server or application server could have
> their entire state reset back to a known base state during each reboot
> without harm.
> The advantage of being less ambitious is that we have a quick and easy way
> to frustrate certain attacks without rewriting all of our software or
> spending lots of money on additional application-specific coding.
> 
> The first two problems you describe only occur if we become more ambitious
> and try to apply these same techniques to, for example, the database table
> partitions, where state changes remain important across reboots. That would
> certainly be a nice touch! But as you point out, many problems would have to
> be addressed first, and the hardest of these can not be abstracted away from
> the particular application. Not the least of these is the problem of writing
> heuristics for delineating good from malevolent state. That task is roughly
> analogous to what antiviral software authors do for a living, only this work
> could not be shared across many different systems as it would be specific to
> a paritcular application.
> 
> The third problem you mention - performance penalty - is an argument for
> doing this in hardware, much like hardware raid. Another argument for doing
> this in hardware is hack resistance. Changing the base instance should
> require physical access to the console, e.g. by requiring that you first
> flip a physical switch on your RAID hardware or modify a bios setting. If
> the base image can be modified remotely or by software, then you have to
> worry about whether an implementation flaw might permit a cracker to modify
> the base image remotely.
> 
> Ben

-- 
    (                                                ______
    ))   .-- Scott MacKenzie; Dine' College ISD --.   >===<--.
  C|~~| (>---  Phone/Voice Mail:  928-724-6639 ---<) | ; o |-'
   |  |  \---  Senior DBA/CARS Coordinator/Etc. --/  |  _  |
   `--'   `- Email: scottm@crystal.ncc.cc.nm.us -'   `-----'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1726.dcd76e312ad123a4882c12b77f0b92c3.eml000066400000000000000000000057611444326627400311760ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: secprog-return-487-jm=jmason.org@securityfocus.com  Fri Sep  6 11:38:01 2002
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From: Yannick Gingras 
To: secprog@securityfocus.com
Subject: Re: Secure Sofware Key
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 06:39:04 -0400
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> However, cracking and reverse engineering tools are not so ubiquitous on
> UNIX as they are on Windows platform for two main reasons:
>
> 1. The main customers of commercial Unices (Solaris, HP-UX, Aix, SCO...)
> are respectable companies. They are ready to pay big bucks for software
> they need: the reputation matters.
>
> 2. Most software for free and open source Unices like Linux and xBSD (this
> software often may be used on commercial unices as well) is, well, free and
> open source.

Thanks to your answers, I start to see where I should head for.  What are your 
sugestions for protecting a 100% online requirement system ?

-- 
Yannick Gingras
Coder for OBB : Observing Bantu-speaking Butanone
http://OpenBeatBox.org


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1727.42ebaf7a8a31234ef70a9066b1579592.eml000066400000000000000000000133421444326627400310470ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: secprog-return-485-jm=jmason.org@securityfocus.com  Fri Sep  6 11:38:51 2002
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Subject: Re: use of base image / delta image for automated recovery from
    attacks
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Ben Mord wrote:

>     -----Original Message-----
>     *From:* Crispin Cowan [mailto:crispin@wirex.com]
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, September 04, 2002 5:46 PM
>     *To:* Ben Mord
>     *Cc:* Webappsec Securityfocus.Com; SECPROG Securityfocus
>     *Subject:* Re: use of base image / delta image for automated
>     recovery from attacks
>
>     Ben Mord wrote:
>
>>I was inspired by a mode of operation supported by VMWare. [use VMWare's ability to rolll back state to recover from intrusions]
>>
>     I did my dissertation work in this area (Optimistic Computing
>     ) and so was
>     interested in applying it to the security problem. Unfortunately,
>     you hit a bunch of problems:
>
>         * When can you "commit" a state as being "good"?  You can't
>           run from a redo log forever; the performance and storage
>           penalties accumulate. Even log structured file systems
>           garbage collect eventually. So you have to commit sometime.
>           The problem is that if you commit too eagerly, you might
>           commit corrupted state. If you commit too conservatively,
>           you eat performance and storage penalties.
>         * What do you do if you discover that there is corrupted state
>           in the *middle* of your redo log, and you want some of the
>           critical state that comes after it? You need some way to dig
>           the corruption out of the middle and save the rest. My
>           dissertation solves this problem, but you have to re-write
>           everything in my programming language :)
>         * Just doing this at all imposes substantial performance
>           penalties. I love VMWare, and use it every day (the best
>           $200 I ever spent on software) but it is not very fast.   
>
> My proposed solution to the first two problems you mention is to be 
> less ambitious. The idea is that you *never* commit - instead, you 
> simply revert to base state on reboot.

Ah. In that case, you can use something considerably less powerful than 
VMWare. All you need is a machine configured to boot from CD-ROM and use 
a RAM disk for scratch space. Numerous Linux distros are available that 
let you boot a stateless but functional system from CD-ROM.

> Obviously, you can't do this with partitions that accrue important 
> state, e.g. a partition that stores database table data.

... but if you *do* want some state to persist, then you need a 
mountable writable partition. To protect it, you need some kind of 
access control management to decide who can do what to the writable 
partition, blah blah blah ... and before you know it, the security 
problem starts to look just like it does for conventional servers.

Simple approxmation to this: make /usr a separate partion, and mount it 
read-only:

    * The good news: attackers that want to trojan your software have to
      reboot, at least.
    * The bad news: administrators that want to update your software
      have to reboot, at least.

Crispin

-- 
Crispin Cowan, Ph.D.
Chief Scientist, WireX                      http://wirex.com/~crispin/
Security Hardened Linux Distribution:       http://immunix.org
Available for purchase: http://wirex.com/Products/Immunix/purchase.html



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1728.cbb5a97d679712664e7cc3025d05c1ca.eml000066400000000000000000000154621444326627400312110ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: secprog-return-486-jm=jmason.org@securityfocus.com  Fri Sep  6 11:38:55 2002
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From: bmord@icon-nicholson.com (Ben Mord)
To: "Crispin Cowan" 
Cc: "Webappsec Securityfocus.Com" ,
	"SECPROG Securityfocus" 
Subject: RE: use of base image / delta image for automated recovery from
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-----Original Message-----
From: Crispin Cowan [mailto:crispin@wirex.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 7:30 PM
To: Ben Mord
Cc: Webappsec Securityfocus.Com; SECPROG Securityfocus
Subject: Re: use of base image / delta image for automated recovery from
attacks


Ben Mord wrote:

>>     -----Original Message-----
>>     *From:* Crispin Cowan [mailto:crispin@wirex.com]
>>     *Sent:* Wednesday, September 04, 2002 5:46 PM
>>     *To:* Ben Mord
>>     *Cc:* Webappsec Securityfocus.Com; SECPROG Securityfocus
>>     *Subject:* Re: use of base image / delta image for automated
>>     recovery from attacks
>>
>>     Ben Mord wrote:
>>
>> My proposed solution to the first two problems you mention is to be
>> less ambitious. The idea is that you *never* commit - instead, you
>> simply revert to base state on reboot.

>Ah. In that case, you can use something considerably less powerful than
>VMWare. All you need is a machine configured to boot from CD-ROM and use
>a RAM disk for scratch space. Numerous Linux distros are available that
>let you boot a stateless but functional system from CD-ROM.

But RAM is expensive, and the directory structures of many systems (e.g.
Windows) are not sufficiently organized and standardized to make this
combination of bootable CDs and RAM drives practical. Even if you are
fortunate enough to be using Linux (or another FHS-compliant *nix), you
still can't fit a lot on a CD. Its not unusual today to have gigabytes of
static multimedia content on the web server. This particular problem can be
alleviated somewhat by using DVDs, but this is a temporary solution at best
which will become outdated quickly as our data requirements grow and hard
drives become cheaper.

>> Obviously, you can't do this with partitions that accrue important
>> state, e.g. a partition that stores database table data.

>... but if you *do* want some state to persist, then you need a
>mountable writable partition. To protect it, you need some kind of
>access control management to decide who can do what to the writable
>partition, blah blah blah ... and before you know it, the security
>problem starts to look just like it does for conventional servers.

Right. This is why you would consolidate all state of any long-term
significance on just a couple partitions, and why you would not put static
application code on these changeable partitions. Fortunately, most large
client/server application physical architectures do this anyhow, because
these are two fundamentally different kinds of state with two very different
sets of administrative, security, RAID, and backup requirements. People also
tend to do this anyhow because layered logical architectures are popular
with the GUI at one end, business logic in the middle, and persistence
services at the other. This logical architecture maps naturally to a
physical architecture that has a static web server, a static application
server, and a database server that has static and changeable partitions. (I
use the word static versus changeable instead of writeable versus unwritable
because the "unchangeable" partitions might be written to for temporary swap
space. Who knows what Windows does internally?)

My point is that there should be a market out there for a hardware RAID
device that can split designated partitions into a permanent base image
partition and a temporary delta image partition, that has some simple but
solid security measures to prevent the unauthorized remote modification of
base images, and that can be configured to clear the delta image when the
server is rebooted. If some vendor wished to implement this, they could then
market this as a mechanism to help frustrate broad classes of attack that
rely on the permanent modification of system or application files via buffer
overflows, platform and middleware bugs, etc. The prevention of unauthorized
modification of application data, of course, would not be addressed by this
particular product. But there are many other techniques out there to defend
application data. But those techniques all assume that your system itself
has not been compromised at a lower level, which is where this product could
help.

I would have to think that these features would be relatively easy for a
hardware RAID vendor to implement. (I'm just guessing, of course, with no
knowledge of how hardware RAID works internally.) If anyone knows of such a
product, I'd love to hear about it.

Ben


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1729.f1819fca167a26d35e31087bf27324f8.eml000066400000000000000000000074031444326627400310560ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: secprog-return-489-jm=jmason.org@securityfocus.com  Fri Sep  6 15:25:00 2002
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From: Artem Frolov 
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To: Yannick Gingras 
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Subject: Re: Secure Sofware Key
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Hi

On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Yannick Gingras wrote:

> BTW thanks for all of you who provided interestiong insight.  I'm playing with 
> gdb's dissassembler now but I don't think it's what a typical cracker would 
> use.  Any hints on UNIX cracking tools ?

There's also an 'objdump' program, and 'biew' hex viewer/disassembler. A good 
starting point to search is http://www.freshmeat.net/

However, cracking and reverse engineering tools are not so ubiquitous on UNIX as 
they are on Windows platform for two main reasons:

1. The main customers of commercial Unices (Solaris, HP-UX, Aix, SCO...) are 
respectable companies. They are ready to pay big bucks for software they need: the reputation matters.

2. Most software for free and open source Unices like Linux and xBSD (this 
software often may be used on commercial unices as well) is, well, free and 
open source.

Regards
/Artem

-- 
 Artem Frolov 
/------------------------------------------------------------------\
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------------------------------------------------------------------




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1730.2092a2c5a1de432db582fa62cf7e254e.eml000066400000000000000000000102631444326627400312430ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: secprog-return-491-jm=jmason.org@securityfocus.com  Fri Sep  6 15:25:04 2002
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From: George Dinwiddie 
Message-Id: <200209051908.g85J8bb57967@min.net>
Subject: Re: use of base image / delta image for automated recovery from
    attacks
To: bmord@icon-nicholson.com (Ben Mord)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 15:08:37 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: crispin@wirex.com (Crispin Cowan),
	webappsec@securityfocus.com (Webappsec Securityfocus.Com),
	SECPROG@securityfocus.com (SECPROG     Securityfocus)
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    at Sep 05, 2002 11:42:40 AM
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> Ben Mord said:
> 
> >Ah. In that case, you can use something considerably less powerful than
> >VMWare. All you need is a machine configured to boot from CD-ROM and use
> >a RAM disk for scratch space. Numerous Linux distros are available that
> >let you boot a stateless but functional system from CD-ROM.
> 
> But RAM is expensive, and the directory structures of many systems (e.g.
> Windows) are not sufficiently organized and standardized to make this
> combination of bootable CDs and RAM drives practical. Even if you are
> fortunate enough to be using Linux (or another FHS-compliant *nix), you
> still can't fit a lot on a CD. Its not unusual today to have gigabytes of
> static multimedia content on the web server. This particular problem can be
> alleviated somewhat by using DVDs, but this is a temporary solution at best
> which will become outdated quickly as our data requirements grow and hard
> drives become cheaper.

So, just write-protect the hard disk for partitions that are static.
I seem to recall an article on this (early 80's, Byte magazine, perhaps?)
for BBS systems or for testing unknown (perhaps trojan horse) software.

 - George

-- 
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
  George Dinwiddie                             gdinwiddie@alberg30.org
  The gods do not deduct from man's allotted span those hours spent in
  sailing.                                    http://www.Alberg30.org/
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1731.5dc6289341b8bccf7a1b7b976f96e005.eml000066400000000000000000000106551444326627400312220ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: secprog-return-507-jm=jmason.org@securityfocus.com  Wed Sep 18 11:50:54 2002
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Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2002 14:51:23 +0200 (CEST)
From: Allan Jensen 
To: Richard Bartlett 
Cc: secprog@securityfocus.com
Subject: Re: The risks of client systems writing to server registry
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On 5 Sep 2002, Richard Bartlett wrote:

Richard,

> I have a customer who is developing some printer driver code to allow 
> custom driver settings (n-up, booklet, duplex etc.) to be saved up to the 
> server to be retrieved by other users.   The data is being written, by a 
> printer driver (using the logged on users authentication, to a registry 
> key) HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Print\Environments\Windows NT 
> x86\Drivers\Version-3\{Driver Name}\{Custom Key}\Subkey).

Let me get this straight; a registry key is loaded from the server onto 
the client workstations who can modify it, then write it back onto the 
server's own registry - which is not going to use it?

> The question is, what are the security risks of allowing users to write 
> to this key?  The data is string data, in the form of delimited numeric 
> values.  This data is then retrieved by capable printer drivers and 
> interpreted.
> 
> The risks as I see it are twofold;
> (1) The risks of a compromise to the server using this registry key.  I 
> think this is unlikeley as the server itself does not use this data, only 
> client PC's do.  Unless someone knows a way to travel out of a hive up 
> the registry bypassing the permissions set using regedt32.

What is the reason to write a registry key to a server if the server 
itself is not using it?
I don't think you should worry too much about someone travelling out of 
the hive, but again, I'm curious as to how the driver actually modifies 
the keys on the server.

> (2) The risks of a compromise to the client (far more likely).  This 
> would probably be by a malformed or extremely long string in the key 
> value, which would presumably lead to either DOS or system compromise by 
> buffer overflow on the client system.

And if the client writes the key back onto the server, yes, there's wide 
open for something nasty here.
Two other things spring to mind; 
1) If anyone can modify the key, how do you make sure that two users are 
not overwriting the same key, thereby causing undesirable effects.
2) If anyone have permissions to write to the key (and below), anyone can 
create thousands of extra keys under this key, thereby filling up the 
registry. The result of such a thing is obvious.

If I got this all wrong, I'd be happy that you clarify a bit more and tell 
me where I might have misunderstood.


Med venlig hilsen / Best regards,
-Allan Jensen

Si hoc signum legere potes, operis boni in rebus Latinus alacribus et 
fructuosis potiri potes!




golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1732.f90c4a8e1ef88d4802f7fc139a85fc13.eml000066400000000000000000000124261444326627400313030ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: secprog-return-508-jm=jmason.org@securityfocus.com  Fri Sep 20 11:28:44 2002
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From: "Michael McKay" 
To: "'Bryan Feir'" ,
	, 
Subject: RE: Secure Sofware Key
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 14:44:22 -0700
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Bryan Feir [mailto:bryan@sgl.crestech.ca] wrote: 

>Of course, once one player key was broken, dealing with the rest became
> a known plaintext attack, and the rest of the player keys went down
like
> a row of dominos.

The actual follow-up to the Xing player break was more interesting than
that.  The mere knowledge of known plaintext (a corresponding input and
output) does not necessarily make it trivial to break a properly
designed systems and/or algorithm. The primary reason it was easy for
CSS is because the CSS key was only 40-bits, and thereby easy to break
with exhaustive search attacks.  It was only 40-bits (speculated)
because of a misunderstanding of the government cryptography export
rules at the time.

Even more interesting, to me at least, was that soon after the Xing
player break, people started studying the CSS algorithm itself.  They
rapidly found serious design flaws which left the 40-bit CSS algorithm
with an actual strength of around 23-bits (from memory, and new attacks
might have further reduced the strength).  This is another great example
showing why proprietary cryptography algorithms should be viewed with
the greatest of suspicion.


On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 09:03:40PM -0400, Yannick Gingras wrote:
> This make me wonder about the relative protection of smart cards.
They have 
> an internal procession unit around 4MHz.  Can we consider them as
trusted 
> hardware ?  

Yes and no.  You can put a limited amount of trust in a smart card.
There have been any number of very clever attacks against smartcards
(Ross Anderson in the UK has documented quite a few of these), and
smartcard manufactures are usually one step behind these attacks.  A
well designed system assumes that a system smartcard will be completely
compromised at some point, giving an adversary all of the secrets
contained in the smartcard.  The cryptography industry has developed a
variety of techniques that can reduce the impact of a compromise,
including unique keys per smartcard and forward security techniques.


Luciano Rocha [strange@nsk.yi.org] wrote: 

> The problem is that that piece of hardware is trustworthy, but the
rest of
> the PC isn't, so a cracker just needs to simulate the lock/smart card,
or
> peek at the executable after the lock has been deactivated.

Going back to the original question, once the encrypted material goes
outside the trusted hardware, it is impossible to "unbreakably" protect
it.  There may be some mitigation steps you can take, such as the SDMI
watermarking, but most schemes to date have been easily broken.  

Another consideration is the value of what you are trying to protect.
While there is no such thing as unbreakable, adding more cost (both in
terms of price and hassle-factor) can greatly improve the protection.
Since you are talking about the use of standard PC workstations, I
presume what you are trying to protect is not THAT valuable.  I'm afraid
most security measures don't come for free.


Michael McKay 
Director of Software Development 
mmckay@iscubed.com 

  Information Security Systems & Services Inc. 
  19925 Stevens Creek Blvd. Cupertino, CA 95014 
  Phone: 408.725.7136  x 4138    Fax: 408.973.7239   www.iscubed.com


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1733.95212a5ae78a283bf7282d310d7731d7.eml000066400000000000000000000110641444326627400307610ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: secprog-return-509-jm=jmason.org@securityfocus.com  Fri Sep 20 11:29:20 2002
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Subject: Re: Secure Sofware Key
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On Thursday 19 September 2002 16:44, Michael McKay wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 09:03:40PM -0400, Yannick Gingras wrote:
> > This make me wonder about the relative protection of smart cards.
> They have an internal procession unit around 4MHz.  Can we consider them as
> trusted hardware ?

SmartCards do not have fixed clock rates (more often than not) as the ISO spec 
dictates that they are externally powered and clocked, but SmartCards used 
for security purposes (usually JavaCards) have built-in crypto co-processors 
that make clock rate irrelevant. 4mhz SmartCards can often preform triple-DES 
faster than general purpose processors clocked at ten times the speed.

That said, clock rate has nothing with how trustworthy a card is. As Michael 
pointed out, there's something of an arms-race between manufacturers and 
attackers which has nothing to do with clock rate, and time and time again 
what we've seen is that it's not a question of "is it secure", it's a 
question of "who is it secure from and for how long?" Security is rarely a 
question of absolutes (despite the often boolean nature of a break), rather 
it's a question of assessing, quantifying, and managing risk. SmartCards are 
designed to address threats in which the cost of protection cannot exceed the 
$1-20 range (depending on the application).

As whether or not they are "trusted hardware", the question again revolves 
around attacker and timeframe. One might expect a bored undergrad EE student 
to have more trouble revealing the contents of a pilfered smartcard than, 
say, a governtment intelligence service. If your goal is to keep undergrad 
EEs from perpetrating mass fraud in the caffeteria, then a smartcard is 
likely "trustworthy" enough for your application. If your aim is to protect 
ICBM launch codes, then it's probably the wrong tool. In either application, 
a risk/cost ratio must justify the use of the protection measure in question.

-- 
Alex Russell
alex@SecurePipe.com
alex@netWindows.org


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1734.8ce5e8ddf445f56cb18afa778b07df0b.eml000066400000000000000000000060311444326627400315170ustar00rootroot00000000000000From: secprog-return-510-jm=jmason.org@securityfocus.com  Mon Sep 23 18:31:18 2002
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reply to the mail from Ben Mord (bmord@icon-nicholson.com):

> Hi,

Hello,

< ... snipped for brevity ... >

> ... This concept could also be
> applied to the application servers, and even the database server partitions
> (except for those partitions which contain the table data files, of course.)

	Although the data might just be the information that needs protecting.

> Does anyone do this already? Or is this a new concept?

	I've seen this implemented for a shell server, although they chose
to have their root on a CD-WR in a CD-R drive. Which meant that even
when compromised it was only possible to examine other users data.
	AFAIR(emember) they just swapped CD's when a root exploit was found.

> Thanks for any opinions,

NP

blaze your trail
--
redhat

'I am become Shiva, destroyer of worlds'


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1738.7ee140ca2744c34a2ed33de3ceecb016.eml000066400000000000000000000036571444326627400314130ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: gward@python.net
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 14:44:17 2002
From: gward@python.net (Greg Ward)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 09:44:17 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] test sets?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <15735.50243.135743.32180@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>
	
Message-ID: <20020906134417.GA16820@cthulhu.gerg.ca>

On 05 September 2002, Tim Peters said:
> Greg Ward is
> currently capturing a stream coming into python.org, and I hope we can get a
> more modern, and cleaner, test set out of that.

Not yet -- still working on the required config changes.  But I have a
cunning plan...

> But if that stream contains
> any private email, it may not be ethically possible to make that available.

It will!  Part of my cunning plan involves something like this:

  if folder == "accepted":             # ie. not suspected junk mail
      if (len(recipients) == 1 and
          recipients[0] in ("guido@python.org", "barry@python.org", ...)):
          folder = "personal"

If you (and Guido, Barry, et. al.) prefer, I could change that last
statement to "folder = None", so the mail won't be saved at all.  I
*might* also add a "and sender doesn't look like -bounce-*, -request,
-admin, ..." clause to that if statement.

> Can you think of anyplace to get a large, shareable ham sample apart from a
> public mailing list?  Everyone's eager to share their spam, but spam is so
> much alike in so many ways that's the easy half of the data collection
> problem.

I believe the SpamAssassin maintainers have a scheme whereby the corpus
of non-spam is distributed, ie. several people have bodies of non-spam
that they use for collectively evolving the SA score set.  If that
sounds vague, it matches my level of understanding.

        Greg
-- 
Greg Ward                          http://www.gerg.ca/
Reality is for people who can't handle science fiction.
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Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 14:54:14 2002
From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 09:54:14 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] test sets?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 06 Sep 2002 09:44:17 EDT."
             <20020906134417.GA16820@cthulhu.gerg.ca> 
References: <15735.50243.135743.32180@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>
	  
	<20020906134417.GA16820@cthulhu.gerg.ca> 
Message-ID: <200209061354.g86DsEE14105@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

> I believe the SpamAssassin maintainers have a scheme whereby the corpus
> of non-spam is distributed, ie. several people have bodies of non-spam
> that they use for collectively evolving the SA score set.  If that
> sounds vague, it matches my level of understanding.

See if you can get a hold of that so we can do a level-playing-field
competition. :-)

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1740.cd9dec755fc9e6d819137b8e0111e031.eml000066400000000000000000000020171444326627400312030ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: gward@python.net
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 14:57:18 2002
From: gward@python.net (Greg Ward)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 09:57:18 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Re: [Python-Dev] Getting started with GBayes testing
In-Reply-To: <200209060806.g8686ve03964@localhost.localdomain>
References: 
	<200209060806.g8686ve03964@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <20020906135718.GC16820@cthulhu.gerg.ca>

On 06 September 2002, Anthony Baxter said:
> A snippet, hopefully not enough to trigger the spam-filters.

As an aside: one of the best ways to dodge SpamAssassin is by having an
In-Reply-To header.  Most list traffic should meet this criterion.

Alternately, I can whitelist mail to spambayes@python.org -- that'll
work until spammers get ahold of the list address, which usually seems
to take a few months.

        Greg
-- 
Greg Ward                          http://www.gerg.ca/
Gee, I feel kind of LIGHT in the head now, knowing I can't make my
satellite dish PAYMENTS!
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Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 15:23:19 2002
From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:23:19 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] test sets?
References: <15735.50243.135743.32180@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>
	
Message-ID: <15736.47703.689156.538539@anthem.wooz.org>


>>>>> "TP" == Tim Peters  writes:

    >> Any thought to wrapping up your spam and ham test sets for
    >> inclusion w/ the spambayes project?

    TP> I gave it all the thought it deserved .  It would be
    TP> wonderful to get several people cranking on the same test
    TP> data, and I'm all in favor of that.  OTOH, my Data/ subtree
    TP> currently has more than 35,000 files slobbering over 134
    TP> million bytes -- even if I had a place to put that much stuff,
    TP> I'm not sure my ISP would let me email it in one msg .

Check it into the spambayes project.  SF's disks are cheap .

-Barry
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1742.9ebb5f33ccd9bcfb089d758b7523f0c5.eml000066400000000000000000000020411444326627400314310ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: guido@python.org
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 15:24:37 2002
From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 10:24:37 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] test sets?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 06 Sep 2002 10:23:19 EDT."
             <15736.47703.689156.538539@anthem.wooz.org> 
References: <15735.50243.135743.32180@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>
	  
	<15736.47703.689156.538539@anthem.wooz.org> 
Message-ID: <200209061424.g86EOcd14363@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

> Check it into the spambayes project.  SF's disks are cheap .

Perhaps more useful would be if Tim could check in the pickle(s?)
generated by one of his training runs, so that others can see how
Tim's training data performs against their own corpora.  This could
also be the starting point for a self-contained distribution (you've
got to start with *something*, and training with python-list data
seems just as good as anything else).

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1743.75e754f7e80ce9c9e26898513069d35f.eml000066400000000000000000000026041444326627400310320ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: barry@python.org
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 15:28:12 2002
From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:28:12 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] test sets?
References: <15735.50243.135743.32180@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>
	
	<20020906134417.GA16820@cthulhu.gerg.ca>
Message-ID: <15736.47996.84689.421662@anthem.wooz.org>


>>>>> "GW" == Greg Ward  writes:

    GW> If you (and Guido, Barry, et. al.) prefer, I could change that
    GW> last statement to "folder = None", so the mail won't be saved
    GW> at all.

I don't care if the mail is foldered on python.org, but personal
messages regardless of who they're for, shouldn't be part of the
public spambayes repository unless specifically approved by both the
recipient and sender.

Note also that we are much more liberal about python.org/zope.org
mailing list traffic than most folks.  Read list-managers for any
length of time and you'll find that there are a lot of people who
assert strict copyright over their collections, are very protective of
their traffic, and got really pissed when gmane just started
gatewaying their messages without asking.

Which might be an appropriate for their lists, but not for ours (don't
think I'm suggesting we do the same -- I /like/ our laissez-faire
approach).

But for personal email, we should be more careful.
-Barry
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1744.af4f10c1dad2aea2637aa8cd093adc34.eml000066400000000000000000000035361444326627400315360ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: guido@python.org
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 15:31:22 2002
From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 10:31:22 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
Message-ID: <200209061431.g86EVM114413@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

Quite independently from testing and tuning the algorithm, I'd like to
think about deployment.

Eventually, individuals and postmasters should be able to download a
spambayes software distribution, answer a few configuration questions
about their mail setup, training and false positives, and install it
as a filter.

A more modest initial goal might be the production of a tool that can
easily be used by individuals (since we're more likely to find
individuals willing to risk this than postmasters).

There are many ways to do this.  Some ideas:

- A program that acts both as a pop client and a pop server.  You
  configure it by telling it about your real pop servers.  You then
  point your mail reader to the pop server at localhost.  When it
  receives a connection, it connects to the remote pop servers, reads
  your mail, and gives you only the non-spam.  To train it, you'd only
  need to send it the false negatives somehow; it can assume that
  anything is ham that you don't say is spam within 48 hours.

- A server with a custom protocol that you send a copy of a message
  and that answers "spam" or "ham".  Then you have a little program
  that is invoked e.g. by procmail that talks to the server.  (The
  server exists so that it doesn't have to load the pickle with the
  scoring database for each message.  I don't know how big that pickle
  would be, maybe loading it each time is fine.  Or maybe
  marshalling.)

- Your idea here.

Takers?  How is ESR's bogofilter packaged?  SpamAssassin?  The Perl
Bayes filter advertised on slashdot?

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1745.6e47b00b04a6f2cb1cf9c5c86031132d.eml000066400000000000000000000014271444326627400311620ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: barry@python.org
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 15:38:56 2002
From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:38:56 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] test sets?
References: <15735.50243.135743.32180@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>
	
	<15736.47703.689156.538539@anthem.wooz.org>
	<200209061424.g86EOcd14363@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <15736.48640.283430.184348@anthem.wooz.org>


>>>>> "GvR" == Guido van Rossum  writes:

    GvR> Perhaps more useful would be if Tim could check in the
    GvR> pickle(s?)  generated by one of his training runs, so that
    GvR> others can see how Tim's training data performs against their
    GvR> own corpora.

He could do that too. :)

-Barry
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1746.e3c2e047714a395c583f80730acd3762.eml000066400000000000000000000026751444326627400307750ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: bkc@murkworks.com
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 15:39:48 2002
From: bkc@murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 10:39:48 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: <200209061431.g86EVM114413@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <3D788653.9143.1D8992DA@localhost>

On 6 Sep 2002 at 10:31, Guido van Rossum wrote:

>   your mail, and gives you only the non-spam.  To train it, you'd only need
>   to send it the false negatives somehow; it can assume that anything is
>   ham that you don't say is spam within 48 hours.

I have folks who leave their email programs running 24 hours a day, constantly polling 
for mail. If they go away for a long weekend, lots of "friday night spam" will become 
ham on sunday night.  (Friday night seems to be the most popular time)


> - Your idea here.

Ultimately I'd like to see tight integration into the "most popular email clients".. As a 
stop-gap to the auto-ham ..

How about adding an IMAP server with a spam and deleted-ham folder. Most email 
clients can handle IMAP. Users should be able to quickly move "spam" into the spam 
folder. 

Instead of deleting messages (or, by reprogramming the delete function) they can 
quickly move ham into the ham folder.

In either case, the message would be processed and then destroyed.


Brad Clements,                bkc@murkworks.com   (315)268-1000
http://www.murkworks.com                          (315)268-9812 Fax
AOL-IM: BKClements

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1747.77c7add87dfb454c2bcc8ce9f60482bd.eml000066400000000000000000000053771444326627400315370ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 15:45:27 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 10:45:27 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] test sets?
In-Reply-To: <15736.5577.157228.229200@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: 

[Tim]
> OTOH, my Data/ subtree currently has more than 35,000 files slobbering
> over 134 million bytes -- even if I had a place to put that much stuff,
> I'm not sure my ISP would let me email it in one msg .

[Skip]
> Do you have a dialup or something more modern ?

Much more modern:  a cable modem with a small upload rate cap.  There's a
reason the less modern uncapped @Home went out of business .

> 134MB of messages zipped would probably compress pretty well - under 50MB
> I'd guess with all the similarity in the headers and such.  You could zip
> each of the 10 sets individually and upload them somewhere.

I suppose this could finish over the course of an afternoon.  Now where's
"somewhere"?  I expect we'll eventually collect several datasets;
SourceForge isn't a good place for it (they expect projects to distribute
relatively small code files, and complain if even those get big).

> ...
> How about random sampling lots of public mailing lists via gmane or
> something similar, manually cleaning it (distributing that load over a
> number of people) and then relying on your clever code and your
> rebalancing script to help further cleanse it?

What then are we training the classifier to do?  Graham's scoring scheme is
based on an assumption that the ham-vs-spam task is *easy*, and half of that
is due to that the ham has a lot in common.  It was an experiment to apply
his scheme to all the comp.lang.python traffic, which is a lot broader than
he had in mind (c.l.py has long had a generous definition of "on topic"
).  I don't expect good things to come of making it ever broader,
*unless* your goal is to investigate just how broad it can be made before it
breaks down.

> The "problem" with the ham is it tends to be much more tied to one person
> (not just intimate, but unique) than the spam.

Which is "a feature" from Graham's POV:  the more clues, the better this
"smoking guns only" approach should work.

> I save all incoming email for ten days (gzipped mbox format) before it
rolls
> over and disappears.  At any one time I think I have about 8,000-10,000
> messages.  Most of it isn't terribly personal (which I would cull before
> passing along anyway) and much of it is machine-generated, so would be of
> marginal use.  Finally, it's all ham-n-spam mixed together.  Do we call
> that an omelette or a Denny's Grand Slam?

Unless you're volunteering to clean it, tag it, package it, and distribute
it, I'd call it irrelevant .

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1748.f61b77d47c074402d1ee5976e9a4fd7d.eml000066400000000000000000000030551444326627400312320ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: guido@python.org
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 15:43:33 2002
From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 10:43:33 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 06 Sep 2002 10:39:48 EDT."
             <3D788653.9143.1D8992DA@localhost> 
References: <3D788653.9143.1D8992DA@localhost> 
Message-ID: <200209061443.g86Ehie14557@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

> >   your mail, and gives you only the non-spam.  To train it, you'd only need
> >   to send it the false negatives somehow; it can assume that anything is
> >   ham that you don't say is spam within 48 hours.
> 
> I have folks who leave their email programs running 24 hours a day,
> constantly polling for mail. If they go away for a long weekend,
> lots of "friday night spam" will become ham on sunday night.
> (Friday night seems to be the most popular time)

So we'll make this a config parameter.

> > - Your idea here.
> 
> Ultimately I'd like to see tight integration into the "most popular
> email clients".. As a stop-gap to the auto-ham ..

What's an auto-ham?

> How about adding an IMAP server with a spam and deleted-ham
> folder. Most email clients can handle IMAP. Users should be able to
> quickly move "spam" into the spam folder.

I personally don't think IMAP has a bright future, but for people who
do use it, that's certainly a good approach.

> Instead of deleting messages (or, by reprogramming the delete
> function) they can quickly move ham into the ham folder.

Yes.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1749.6943600e0de67c472ee13c9f14345e0f.eml000066400000000000000000000044431444326627400310560ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 15:59:38 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 10:59:38 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] test sets?
In-Reply-To: <200209060759.g867xcV03853@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: 

[Anthony Baxter]
> I've got a test set here that's the last 3 and a bit years email to
> info@ekit.com and info@ekno.com - it's a really ugly set of 20,000+
> messages, currently broken into 7,000 spam, 9,000 ham, 9,000 currently
> unclassified. These addresses are all over the 70-some different
> ekit/ekno/ISIConnect websites, so they get a LOT of spam.
>
> As well as the usual spam, it also has customers complaining about
> credit card charges, it has people interested in the service and
> asking questions about long distance rates, &c &c &c. Lots and lots
> of "commercial" speech, in other words. Stuff that SA gets pretty
> badly wrong.

Can this corpus be shared?  I suppose not.

> I'm currently mangling it by feeding all parts (text, html, whatever
> else :) into the filters, as well as both a selected number of headers
> (to, from, content-type, x-mailer), and also a list of (header,
> count_of_header). This is showing up some nice stuff - e.g. the
> X-uidl that stoopid spammers blindly copy into their messages.

If we ever  have a shared corpus, an easy refactoring of timtest
should allow to plug in different tokenizers.  I've only made three changes
to Graham's algorithm so far (well, I've made dozens -- only three survived
testing as proven winners), all the rest has been refining the tokenization
to provide better clues.

> I did have Received in there, but it's out for the moment, as it causes
> rates to drop.

That's ambiguous.  Accuracy rates or error rates, ham or spam rates?

> I'm also stripping out HTML tags, except for href="" and src="" - there's
> so so much goodness in them (note that I'm only keeping the contents of
> the attributes).

Mining embedded http/https/ftp thingies cut the false negative rate in half
in my tests (not keying off href, just scanning for anything that "looked
like" one); that was the single biggest f-n improvement I've seen.  It
didn't change the false positive rate.  So you know whether src added
additional power, or did you do both at once?

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1750.c5afcba50538a5f49d6e261f6bcfed40.eml000066400000000000000000000031511444326627400314750ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: skip@pobox.com
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 16:01:51 2002
From: skip@pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:01:51 -0500
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: <200209061431.g86EVM114413@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
References: <200209061431.g86EVM114413@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <15736.50015.881231.510395@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>


    Guido> Takers?  How is ESR's bogofilter packaged?  SpamAssassin?  The
    Guido> Perl Bayes filter advertised on slashdot?

Dunno about the other tools, but SpamAssassin is a breeze to incorporate
into a procmail environment.  Lots of people use it in many other ways.  For
performance reasons, many people run a spamd process and then invoke a small
C program called spamc which shoots the message over to spamd and passes the
result back out.  I think spambayes in incremental mode is probably fast
enough to not require such tricks (though I would consider changing the
pickle to an anydbm file).

Basic procmail usage goes something like this:

    :0fw
    | spamassassin -P

    :0
    * ^X-Spam-Status: Yes
    $SPAM

Which just says, "Run spamassassin -P reinjecting its output into the
processing stream.  If the resulting mail has a header which begins
"X-Spam-Status: Yes", toss it into the folder indicated by the variable
$SPAM.

SpamAssassin also adds other headers as well, which give you more detail
about how its tests fared.  I'd like to see spambayes operate in at least
this way: do its thing then return a message to stdout with a modified set
of headers which further processing downstream can key on.

Skip

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1751.7758ab9d9eb224bcb73e0e8e803e92c9.eml000066400000000000000000000032671444326627400313110ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: bkc@murkworks.com
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 16:02:11 2002
From: bkc@murkworks.com (Brad Clements)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 11:02:11 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: <200209061443.g86EhXQ14543@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
References: Your message of "Fri, 06 Sep 2002 10:39:48 EDT."
	<3D788653.9143.1D8992DA@localhost> 
Message-ID: <3D788B92.22739.1D9E0FD1@localhost>

Did you want this on the list? I'm replying to the list..

On 6 Sep 2002 at 10:43, Guido van Rossum wrote:

> What's an auto-ham?

Automatically marking something as ham after a given timeout.. regardless of how long 
that timeout is, someone is going to forget to submit the message back as spam. 

How many spams-as-hams can be accepted before the f-n rate gets unacceptable?


> > How about adding an IMAP server with a spam and deleted-ham
> > folder. Most email clients can handle IMAP. Users should be able to
> > quickly move "spam" into the spam folder.
> 
> I personally don't think IMAP has a bright future, but for people who
> do use it, that's certainly a good approach.
> 
> > Instead of deleting messages (or, by reprogramming the delete
> > function) they can quickly move ham into the ham folder.
> 
> Yes.

I view IMAP as a stop-gap measure until tighter integration with various email clients 
can be achieved.

I still feel it's better to require classification feedback from the recipient, rather than 
make any assumptions after some period of time passes. But this is an end-user issue 
and we're still at the algorithm stage.. ;-)




Brad Clements,                bkc@murkworks.com   (315)268-1000
http://www.murkworks.com                          (315)268-9812 Fax
AOL-IM: BKClements

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1752.5bcdd9205f59d95e025a2896a38ee2bb.eml000066400000000000000000000032701444326627400312740ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: guido@python.org
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 16:05:22 2002
From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 11:05:22 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 06 Sep 2002 11:02:11 EDT."
             <3D788B92.22739.1D9E0FD1@localhost> 
References: "Your message of Fri, 06 Sep 2002 10:39:48 EDT."
	<3D788653.9143.1D8992DA@localhost>  
	<3D788B92.22739.1D9E0FD1@localhost> 
Message-ID: <200209061505.g86F5MM14762@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

> > What's an auto-ham?
> 
> Automatically marking something as ham after a given
> timeout.. regardless of how long that timeout is, someone is going
> to forget to submit the message back as spam.

OK, here's a refinement.  Assuming very little spam comes through, we
only need to pick a small percentage of ham received as new training
ham to match the new training spam.  The program could randomly select
a sufficient number of saved non-spam msgs and ask the user to
validate this selection.  You could do this once a day or week (config
parameter).

> How many spams-as-hams can be accepted before the f-n rate gets
> unacceptable?

Config parameter.

> I view IMAP as a stop-gap measure until tighter integration with
> various email clients can be achieved.
> 
> I still feel it's better to require classification feedback from the
> recipient, rather than make any assumptions after some period of
> time passes. But this is an end-user issue and we're still at the
> algorithm stage.. ;-)

I'm trying to think about the end-user issues because I have nothing
to contribute to the algorithm at this point.  For deployment we need
both!

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1753.f51bd31e8f0e63be278c22d7a4d2bf10.eml000066400000000000000000000034361444326627400313340ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: guido@python.org
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 16:06:26 2002
From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 11:06:26 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 06 Sep 2002 10:01:51 CDT."
             <15736.50015.881231.510395@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com> 
References: <200209061431.g86EVM114413@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
	<15736.50015.881231.510395@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com> 
Message-ID: <200209061506.g86F6Qo14777@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

> Dunno about the other tools, but SpamAssassin is a breeze to incorporate
> into a procmail environment.  Lots of people use it in many other ways.  For
> performance reasons, many people run a spamd process and then invoke a small
> C program called spamc which shoots the message over to spamd and passes the
> result back out.  I think spambayes in incremental mode is probably fast
> enough to not require such tricks (though I would consider changing the
> pickle to an anydbm file).
> 
> Basic procmail usage goes something like this:
> 
>     :0fw
>     | spamassassin -P
> 
>     :0
>     * ^X-Spam-Status: Yes
>     $SPAM
> 
> Which just says, "Run spamassassin -P reinjecting its output into the
> processing stream.  If the resulting mail has a header which begins
> "X-Spam-Status: Yes", toss it into the folder indicated by the variable
> $SPAM.
> 
> SpamAssassin also adds other headers as well, which give you more detail
> about how its tests fared.  I'd like to see spambayes operate in at least
> this way: do its thing then return a message to stdout with a modified set
> of headers which further processing downstream can key on.

Do you feel capable of writing such a tool?  It doesn't look too hard.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1754.7cafcb2d9dcaadd665afabc65c267f36.eml000066400000000000000000000017751444326627400317340ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: skip@pobox.com
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 16:12:58 2002
From: skip@pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:12:58 -0500
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: <200209061443.g86Ehie14557@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
References: <3D788653.9143.1D8992DA@localhost>
        <200209061443.g86Ehie14557@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <15736.50682.911121.462698@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>


    >> Ultimately I'd like to see tight integration into the "most popular
    >> email clients"..

The advantage of using a kitchen sink (umm, make that highly programmable)
editor+email package like Emacs+VM is that you can twiddle your key bindings
and write a little ELisp (or Pymacs) glue to toss messages in the right
direction (spam or ham).  For this, spambayes would have to operate in an
incremental fashion when fed a single ham or spam message.

(No, I have no idea what an "auto-ham" is.  A pig run over by a car,
perhaps?)

give-a-dog-a-bone-ly, y'rs,

Skip
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1755.864cc509960bb627696e65943038856e.eml000066400000000000000000000017061444326627400306070ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: skip@pobox.com
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 16:19:30 2002
From: skip@pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:19:30 -0500
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: <200209061506.g86F6Qo14777@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
References: <200209061431.g86EVM114413@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
        <15736.50015.881231.510395@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>
        <200209061506.g86F6Qo14777@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <15736.51074.369911.905337@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>


    >> Dunno about the other tools, but SpamAssassin is a breeze ...
    >> SpamAssassin also adds other headers as well, which give you more
    >> detail ...

    Guido> Do you feel capable of writing such a tool?  It doesn't look too
    Guido> hard.

Sure, but at the moment I have to stop reading email for a few hours and do
some real work. ;-) I'll see if I can modify GBayes.py suitably over the
weekend.

Skip
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1756.b13797de35037c4f26356e89ba3f9fb1.eml000066400000000000000000000022731444326627400311470ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: nas@python.ca
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 16:57:05 2002
From: nas@python.ca (Neil Schemenauer)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 08:57:05 -0700
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: <200209061443.g86Ehie14557@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
References: <3D788653.9143.1D8992DA@localhost>
	<200209061443.g86Ehie14557@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <20020906155705.GA22115@glacier.arctrix.com>

Guido van Rossum wrote:
> I personally don't think IMAP has a bright future, but for people who
> do use it, that's certainly a good approach.

Writing an IMAP server is a non-trivial task.  The specification is huge
and clients do all kinds of weird stuff.  POP is very easy in
comparison.  Perhaps you could forward messages to a special address or
save them in a special folder to mark them as false negatives.

Alternatively, perhaps there could be a separate protocol and client
that could be used to review additions to the training set.  Each day a
few random spam and ham messages could be grabbed as candidates.
Someone would periodically startup the client, review the candidates,
reclassify or remove any messages they don't like and add them to the
training set.

  Neil
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1757.ade7f371dd3f7c4393baf201b803755a.eml000066400000000000000000000033111444326627400312560ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: barry@python.org
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 17:23:33 2002
From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 12:23:33 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
References: <3D788653.9143.1D8992DA@localhost>
	<200209061443.g86Ehie14557@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
	<20020906155705.GA22115@glacier.arctrix.com>
Message-ID: <15736.54917.688066.738120@anthem.wooz.org>


>>>>> "NS" == Neil Schemenauer  writes:

    NS> Writing an IMAP server is a non-trivial task.

That's what I've been told by everyone I've talked to who's actually
tried to write one.
    
    NS> Alternatively, perhaps there could be a separate protocol and
    NS> client that could be used to review additions to the training
    NS> set.  Each day a few random spam and ham messages could be
    NS> grabbed as candidates.  Someone would periodically startup the
    NS> client, review the candidates, reclassify or remove any
    NS> messages they don't like and add them to the training set.

I think people will be much more motivated to report spam than ham.  I
like the general approach that copies of random messages will be
sequestered for some period of time before they're assumed to be ham.
Matched with a simple spam reporting scheme, this could keep the
training up to date with little effort.  I've sketched out an approach
a listserver like Mailman could do along these lines and if I get some
free time I'll hack something together.

I like the idea of a POP proxy which is classifying messages as
they're pulled from the server.  The easiest way for such a beast to
be notified of spam might be to simply save the spam in a special
folder or file that the POP proxy would periodically consult.

-Barry
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1758.c3fc45d31d7f105f7baa0d7617f71402.eml000066400000000000000000000056761444326627400312110ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: paul-bayes@svensson.org
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 17:27:57 2002
From: paul-bayes@svensson.org (Paul Svensson)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 12:27:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Spambayes] Corpus Collection (Was: Re: Deployment)
In-Reply-To: <200209061431.g86EVM114413@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 6 Sep 2002, Guido van Rossum wrote:

>Quite independently from testing and tuning the algorithm, I'd like to
>think about deployment.
>
>Eventually, individuals and postmasters should be able to download a
>spambayes software distribution, answer a few configuration questions
>about their mail setup, training and false positives, and install it
>as a filter.
>
>A more modest initial goal might be the production of a tool that can
>easily be used by individuals (since we're more likely to find
>individuals willing to risk this than postmasters).

My impression is that a pre-collected corpus would not fit most individuals
very well, but each individual (or group?) should collect their own corpus.

One problem that comes upp immediately: individuals are lazy.

If I currently get 50 spam and 50 ham a day, and I'll have to
press the 'delete' button once for each spam, I'll be happy
to press the 'spam' button instead.  However, if in addition
have to press a 'ham' button for each ham, it starts to look
much less like a win to me.  Add the time to install and setup
the whole machinery, and I'll just keep hitting delete.

The suggestions so far have been to hook something on the delete
action, that adds a message to the ham corpus.  I see two problems
with this: the ham will be a bit skewed; mail that I keep around
without deleting will not be counted.  Secondly, if I by force of
habit happen to press the 'delete' key instead of the 'spam' key,
I'll end up with spam in the ham, anyways.

I would like to look for a way to deal with spam in the ham.

The obvious thing to do is to trigger on the 'spam' button,
and at that time look for messages similar to the deleted one
in the ham corpus, and simply remove them.  To do this we
need a way to compare two word count histograms, to see
how similar they are.  Any ideas ?

Also, I personally would prefer to not see the spam at all.
If they get bounced (preferably already in the SMTP),
false positives become the senders problem, to rewrite
to remove the spam smell.

In a well tuned system then, there spam corpus will be much
smaller than the ham corpus, so it would be possible to be
slightly over-agressive when clearing potential spam from
the ham corpus.  This should make it easier to keep it clean.

Having a good way to remove spam from the ham corpus,
there's less need to worry about it getting there by mistake,
and we might as well simply add all messages to the ham corpus,
that didn't get deleted by the spam filtering.

It might also be useful to have a way to remove messages from
the spam corpus, in case of user ooops.

	/Paul

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1759.705cfa5ceb056324fe8fef48d12754db.eml000066400000000000000000000021651444326627400313610ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: guido@python.org
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 17:27:01 2002
From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 12:27:01 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 06 Sep 2002 12:25:05 EDT."
             <20020906162505.GB17800@cthulhu.gerg.ca> 
References: <200209061431.g86EVM114413@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
	<20020906162505.GB17800@cthulhu.gerg.ca> 
Message-ID: <200209061627.g86GR1p15407@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

> I guess MUA-level filtering is just a fallback for people who don't have
> 1) a burning, all-consuming hatred of junk mail, 2) root access to all
> mail servers they rely on, and 3) the ability and inclination to install
> an MTA with every bell and whistle tweaked to keep out junk mail.

Sure.  But for most people, changing their company's or ISP's server
requires years of lobbying, while they have total and immediate
control over their own MUA.

That said, I agree that we should offer a good solution to
postmasters, and I trust that your ideas are right on the mark!

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1760.a57fd76dcafe47299543685aa2387d32.eml000066400000000000000000000021671444326627400311510ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: jeremy@alum.mit.edu
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 17:28:09 2002
From: jeremy@alum.mit.edu (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 12:28:09 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: <200209061431.g86EVM114413@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
References: <200209061431.g86EVM114413@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <15736.55193.38098.486459@slothrop.zope.com>

I think one step towards deployment is creating a re-usable tokenizer
for mail messages.  The current codebase doesn't expose an easy-to-use
or easy-to-customize tokenizer.

The timtest module seems to contain an enormous body of practical
knowledge about how to parse mail messages, but the module wasn't
designed for re-use.  I'd like to see a module that can take a single
message or a collection of messages and tokenize each one.

I'd like to see the tokenize by customizable, too.  Tim had to exclude
some headers from his test data, because there were particular biases
in the test data.  If other people have test data without those
biases, they ought to be able to customize the tokenizer to include
them or exclude others.

Jeremy

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1761.eeb706ce24cbbf2cd21648a4781a1464.eml000066400000000000000000000070211444326627400312470ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 17:45:09 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 12:45:09 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] test sets?
In-Reply-To: <15736.54481.733005.644033@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: 

[Barry A. Warsaw, gives answers and asks questions]

Here's the code that produced the header tokens:

    x2n = {}
    for x in msg.keys():
        x2n[x] = x2n.get(x, 0) + 1
    for x in x2n.items():
        yield "header:%s:%d" % x


Some responses:

>  0.01    19  3559 'header:X-Mailman-Version:1'
>  0.01    19  3559 'header:List-Id:1'
>  0.01    19  3557 'header:X-BeenThere:1'
>
> These three are definitely MM artifacts, although the second one
> /could/ be inserted by other list management software (it's described
> in an RFC).

Since all the ham came from Mailman, and only 19 spam had it, it's quite
safe to assume then that I should ignore these for now.

>  0.01     0  3093 'header:Newsgroups:1'
>  0.01     0  3054 'header:Xref:1'
>  0.01     0  3053 'header:Path:1'
>
> These aren't MM artifacts, but are byproducts of gating a message off
> of an nntp feed.  Some of the other NNTP-* headers are similar, but I
> won't point them out below.

I should ignore these too then.

>  0.01    19  2668 'header:List-Unsubscribe:1'
>  0.01    19  2668 'header:List-Subscribe:1'
>  0.01    19  2668 'header:List-Post:1'
>  0.01    19  2668 'header:List-Help:1'
>  0.01    19  2668 'header:List-Archive:1'
>
> RFC recommended generic listserve headers that MM injects.

Ditto.

> So why do you get two entries for this one?
>
>  0.99   519     0 'header:Received:8'
>  0.99   466     1 'header:Received:7'

Read the code .  The first line counts msgs that had 8 instances of a
'Received' header, and the second counts msgs that had 7 instances.  I
expect this is a good clue!  The more indirect the mail path, the more of
those thingies we'll see, and if you're posting from a spam trailer park in
Tasmania you may well need to travel thru more machines.

> ...
> Note that header names are case insensitive, so this one's no
> different than "MIME-Version:".  Similarly other headers in your list.

Ignoring case here may or may not help; that's for experiment to decide.
It's plausible that case is significant, if, e.g., a particular spam mailing
package generates unusual case, or a particular clueless spammer
misconfigures his package.

>  0.02    65  3559 'header:Precedence:1'
>
> Could be Mailman, or not.  This header is supposed to tell other
> automated software that this message was automated.  E.g. a replybot
> should ignore any message with a Precedence: {bulk|junk|list}.

Rule of thumb:  if Mailman inserts a thing, I should ignore it.  Or, better,
I should stop trying to out-think the flaws in the test data and get better
test data instead!

>  0.50     4     0 'header:2:1'
>
> !?
> ...
>  0.50     0     2 'header:'
>
> Heh?

I sucked out all the wordinfo keys that began with "header:".  The last line
there  was probably due to unrelated instances of the string "header:" in
message bodies.  Harder to guess about the first line.

> ...
> Some headers of course are totally unreliable as to their origin.  I'm
> thinking stuff like MIME-Version, Content-Type, To, From, etc, etc.
> Everyone sticks those in.

The brilliance of Anthony's "just count them" scheme is that it requires no
thought, so can't be fooled .  Header lines that are evenly
distributed across spam and ham will turn out to be worthless indicators
(prob near 0.5), so do no harm.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1762.1d4646886358156accce640171c77c1d.eml000066400000000000000000000031471444326627400307740ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 17:55:07 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 12:55:07 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] test sets?
In-Reply-To: <200209060811.g868Bo904031@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: 

[Anthony Baxter]
> The other thing on my todo list (probably tonight's tram ride home) is
> to add all headers from non-text parts of multipart messages. If nothing
> else, it'll pick up most virus email real quick.

See the checkin comments for timtest.py last night.  Adding this code gave a
major reduction in the false negative rate:

def crack_content_xyz(msg):
    x = msg.get_type()
    if x is not None:
        yield 'content-type:' + x.lower()

    x = msg.get_param('type')
    if x is not None:
        yield 'content-type/type:' + x.lower()

    for x in msg.get_charsets(None):
        if x is not None:
            yield 'charset:' + x.lower()

    x = msg.get('content-disposition')
    if x is not None:
        yield 'content-disposition:' + x.lower()

    fname = msg.get_filename()
    if fname is not None:
        for x in fname.lower().split('/'):
            for y in x.split('.'):
                yield 'filename:' + y

    x = msg.get('content-transfer-encoding:')
    if x is not None:
        yield 'content-transfer-encoding:' + x.lower()


...

    t = ''
    for x in msg.walk():
        for w in crack_content_xyz(x):
            yield t + w
        t = '>'

I *suspect* most of that stuff didn't make any difference, but I put it all
in as one blob so don't know which parts did and didn't help.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1763.2ac623f4f429bbe90824fa535e73b558.eml000066400000000000000000000015731444326627400311370ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: barry@python.org
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 17:59:49 2002
From: barry@python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 12:59:49 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] test sets?
References: 
	
Message-ID: <15736.57093.811682.371784@anthem.wooz.org>


    TP> A false positive *really* has to work hard then, eh?  The long
    TP> quote of a Nigerian scam letter is one of the two that made
    TP> it, and spamprob() looked at all this stuff before deciding it
    TP> was spam:

Here's an interesting thing to test: discriminate words differently if
they are on a line that starts with `>' or, to catch styles like
above, that the first occurance on a line of < or > is > (to eliminate
html).

Then again, it may not be worth trying to un-false-positive that
Nigerian scam quote.

-Barry
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1764.1393ea887720c777d1429b07fce98ab4.eml000066400000000000000000000061671444326627400310760ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: neale@woozle.org
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 18:13:17 2002
From: neale@woozle.org (Neale Pickett)
Date: 06 Sep 2002 10:13:17 -0700
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: <200209061506.g86F6Qo14777@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
References: <200209061431.g86EVM114413@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
	<15736.50015.881231.510395@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>
	<200209061506.g86F6Qo14777@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: 

So then, Guido van Rossum  is all like:

> > Basic procmail usage goes something like this:
> > 
> >     :0fw
> >     | spamassassin -P
> > 
> >     :0
> >     * ^X-Spam-Status: Yes
> >     $SPAM
> > 
> 
> Do you feel capable of writing such a tool?  It doesn't look too hard.

Not to beat a dead horse, but that's exactly what my spamcan package
did.  For those just tuning in, spamcan is a thingy I wrote before I
knew about Tim & co's work on this crazy stuff; you can download it from
, but I'm not going
to work on it anymore.

I'm currently writing a new one based on classifier (and timtest's
booty-kicking tokenizer).  I'll probably have something soon, like maybe
half an hour, and no, it's not too hard.  The hard part is storing the
data somewhere.  I don't want to use ZODB, as I'd like something a
person can just drop in with a default Python install.  So anydbm is
looking like my best option.

I already have a setup like this using Xavier Leroy's SpamOracle, which
does the same sort of thing.  You call it from procmail, it adds a new
header, and then you can filter on that header.  Really easy.

Here's how I envision this working.  Everybody gets four new mailboxes:

  train-eggs
  train-spam
  trained-eggs
  trained-spam

You copy all your spam and eggs* into the "train-" boxes as you get it.
How frequently you do this would be up to you, but you'd get better
results if you did it more often, and you'd be wise to always copy over
anything which was misclassified.  Then, every night, the spam fairy
swoops down and reads through your folders, learning about what sorts of
things you think are eggs and what sorts of things are spam.  After she's
done, she moves your mail into the "trained-" folders.

This would work for anybody using IMAP on a Unix box, or folks who read
their mail right off the server.  I've spoken with some fellows at work
about Exchange and they seem to beleive that Exchange exports
appropriate functionality to implement a spam fairy as well.

Advanced users could stay ahead of the game by reprogramming their mail
client to bind the key "S" to "move to train-spam" and "H" to "move to
train-eggs".  Eventually, if enough people used this sort of thing, it'd
start showing up in mail clients.  That's the "delete as spam" button
Paul Graham was talking about.

* The Hormel company might not think well of using the word "ham" as the
  opposite of "spam", and they've been amazingly cool about the use of
  their product name for things thus far.  So I propose we start calling
  non-spam something more innocuous (and more Monty Pythonic) such as
  "eggs".

Neale
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1765.4257318f87e53aa246882d00e42c67d5.eml000066400000000000000000000047601444326627400307230ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 18:35:55 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 13:35:55 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: <15736.55193.38098.486459@slothrop.zope.com>
Message-ID: 

[Jeremy Hylton]
> I think one step towards deployment is creating a re-usable tokenizer
> for mail messages.  The current codebase doesn't expose an easy-to-use
> or easy-to-customize tokenizer.

tokenize() couldn't be easier to use:  it takes a string argument, and
produces a stream of tokens (whether via explicit list, or generator, or
tuple, or ... doesn't matter).  All the tokenize() functions in GBayes.py
and timtest.py are freely interchangeable this way.

Note that we have no evidence to support that a customizable tokenizer would
do any good, or, if it would, in which ways customization could be helpful.
That's a research issue on which no work has been done.

> The timtest module seems to contain an enormous body of practical
> knowledge about how to parse mail messages, but the module wasn't
> designed for re-use.

That's partly a failure of imagination .  Splitting out all knowledge
of tokenization is just a large block cut-and-paste ... there, it's done.
Change the

    from timtoken import tokenize

at the top to use any other tokenizer now.  If you want to make it easier
still, feel free to check in something better.

> I'd like to see a module that can take a single message or a collection of
> messages and tokenize each one.

The Msg and MsgStream classes in timtest.py are a start at that, but it's
hard to do anything truly *useful* here when people use all sorts of
different physical representations for email msgs (mboxes in various
formats, one file per "folder", one file per msg, Skip's gzipped gimmick,
...).  If you're a Python coder , you *should* find it very easy to
change the guts of Msg and MsgStream to handle your peculiar scheme.
Defining interfaces for these guys should be done.

> I'd like to see the tokenize by customizable, too.  Tim had to exclude
> some headers from his test data, because there were particular biases
> in the test data.  If other people have test data without those
> biases, they ought to be able to customize the tokenizer to include
> them or exclude others.

This sounds like a bottomless pit to me, and there's no easier way to
customize than to edit the code.  As README.txt still says, though, massive
refactoring would help.  Hop to it!

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1766.16e55768065036480deaa72ebb3bd8d5.eml000066400000000000000000000042551444326627400311350ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: whisper@oz.net
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 18:53:24 2002
From: whisper@oz.net (David LeBlanc)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 10:53:24 -0700
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

I think that when considering deployment, a solution that supports all
Python platforms and not just the L|Unix crowd is desirable.

Mac and PC users are more apt to be using a commercial MUA that's unlikely
to offer hooking ability (at least not easily). As mentioned elsewhere, even
L|Unix users may find an MUA solution easier to use then getting it added to
their MTA. (SysOps make programmers look like flaming liberals ;).)

My notion of a solution for Windows/Outlook has been, as Guido described, a
client-server. Client side does pop3/imap/mapi fetching (of which, I'm only
going to implement pop3 initially) potentially on several hosts, spamhams
the incoming mail and puts it into one file per message (qmail style?). The
MUA accesses this "eThunk" as a server to obtain all the ham. Spam is
retained in the eThunk and a simple viewer would be used for manual
oversight on the spam for ultimate rejection (and training of spam filter)
and the ham will go forward (after being used for training) on the next MUA
fetch. eThunk would sit on a timer for 'always online' users, but I am not
clear on how to support dialup users with this scheme.

Outbound mail would use a direct path from the MUA to the MTA. Hopefully all
MUAs can split the host fetch/send URL's

IMO, end users are likely to be more intested in n-way classification. If
this is available, the "simple viewer" could be enhanced to support viewing
via folders and (at least for me) the Outlook nightmare is over - I would
use this as my only MUA. (N.B. according to my recent readings, the best
n-way classifier uses something called a "Support Vector Machine" (SVM)
which is 5-8% more accurate then Naive Bayes (NB) ).

I wonder if the focus of spambayes ought not to be a classifier that leaves
the fetching and feeding of messages to auxillary code? That way, it could
be dropped into whatever harness that suited the user's situation.

David LeBlanc
Seattle, WA USA


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1767.f726e854a4f84a55fa0961e65c372e8d.eml000066400000000000000000000016541444326627400311600ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: guido@python.org
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 18:58:14 2002
From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 13:58:14 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 06 Sep 2002 10:53:24 PDT."
              
References:  
Message-ID: <200209061758.g86HwET15939@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

> I wonder if the focus of spambayes ought not to be a classifier that
> leaves the fetching and feeding of messages to auxillary code? That
> way, it could be dropped into whatever harness that suited the
> user's situation.

I see no reason to restrict the project to developing the classifier
and leave the deployment to others.  Attempts at deployment in the
real world will surely provide additional feedback for the classifier.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1768.e849ebd7ee95f02a6f4d937acb7575e2.eml000066400000000000000000000022111444326627400313740ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: gward@python.net
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 19:02:23 2002
From: gward@python.net (Greg Ward)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 14:02:23 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] test sets?
In-Reply-To: 
References: <15736.54481.733005.644033@anthem.wooz.org>
	
Message-ID: <20020906180223.GA18250@cthulhu.gerg.ca>

On 06 September 2002, Tim Peters said:
> > Note that header names are case insensitive, so this one's no
> > different than "MIME-Version:".  Similarly other headers in your list.
> 
> Ignoring case here may or may not help; that's for experiment to decide.
> It's plausible that case is significant, if, e.g., a particular spam mailing
> package generates unusual case, or a particular clueless spammer
> misconfigures his package.

Case of headers is definitely helpful.  SpamAssassin has a rule for it
-- if you have headers like "DATE" or "SUBJECT", you get a few more
points.

        Greg
-- 
Greg Ward                          http://www.gerg.ca/
God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent
---it says so right here on the label.
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1769.531649d2c834408569b5aba7d5b2b9fb.eml000066400000000000000000000031521444326627400311370ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: skip@pobox.com
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 19:48:35 2002
From: skip@pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:48:35 -0500
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: <20020906162505.GB17800@cthulhu.gerg.ca>
References: <200209061431.g86EVM114413@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
        <20020906162505.GB17800@cthulhu.gerg.ca>
Message-ID: <15736.63619.488739.691181@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>


    Greg> In case it wasn't obvious, I'm a strong proponent of filtering
    Greg> junk mail as early as possible, ie. right after the SMTP DATA
    Greg> command has been completed.  Filtering spam at the MUA just seems
    Greg> stupid to me -- by the time it gets to me MUA, the spammer has
    Greg> already stolen my bandwidth.  

The two problems I see with filtering that early are:

    1. Everyone receiving email via that server will contribute ham to the
       stew, making the Bayesian classification less effective.

    2. Given that there will be some false positives, you absolutely have to
       put the mail somewhere.  You can't simply delete it.  (I also don't
       like the TMDA-ish business of replying with a msg that says, "here's
       what you do to really get your message to me."  That puts an extra
       burden on my correspondents.)  As an individual, I would prefer you
       put spammish messages somewhere where I can review them, not an
       anonymous sysadmin who I might not trust with my personal email
       (nothing against you Greg ;-).

I personally prefer to manage this stuff at the user agent level.  Bandwidth
is a heck of a lot cheaper than my time.

Skip
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1770.4aac42588f98c49a6d4c39c4e65d3387.eml000066400000000000000000000044451444326627400311600ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: harri.pasanen@bigfoot.com
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 20:07:28 2002
From: harri.pasanen@bigfoot.com (Harri Pasanen)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 21:07:28 +0200
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: <15736.63619.488739.691181@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>
References: <200209061431.g86EVM114413@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
	<20020906162505.GB17800@cthulhu.gerg.ca>
	<15736.63619.488739.691181@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <200209062107.28106.harri.pasanen@bigfoot.com>

On Friday 06 September 2002 20:48, Skip Montanaro wrote:
>     Greg> In case it wasn't obvious, I'm a strong proponent of
> filtering Greg> junk mail as early as possible, ie. right after the
> SMTP DATA Greg> command has been completed.  Filtering spam at the
> MUA just seems Greg> stupid to me -- by the time it gets to me MUA,
> the spammer has Greg> already stolen my bandwidth.
>
> The two problems I see with filtering that early are:
>
>     1. Everyone receiving email via that server will contribute ham
> to the stew, making the Bayesian classification less effective.
>
>     2. Given that there will be some false positives, you absolutely
> have to put the mail somewhere.  You can't simply delete it.  (I also
> don't like the TMDA-ish business of replying with a msg that says,
> "here's what you do to really get your message to me."  That puts an
> extra burden on my correspondents.)  As an individual, I would prefer
> you put spammish messages somewhere where I can review them, not an
> anonymous sysadmin who I might not trust with my personal email
> (nothing against you Greg ;-).
>
> I personally prefer to manage this stuff at the user agent level. 
> Bandwidth is a heck of a lot cheaper than my time.
>

I see no reason why both approaches could and should not be used.
MTA level filtering would just need to use a different corpus, one that 
would contain illegal or otherwise commonly unapproved material for the 
group of people using that MTA.   I'm sure that such an approach would 
significantly reduce the mail traffic as a first step, without  giving  
false positives.

MUA corpus would then be personally trained -- although I'd like the 
option of 'down-loadable' corpuses and merge functionality.

Harri

PS.  Just joined the list, so pardon if my thoughts have been hashed 
through before.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1771.8880ac0caa45450bea484d7e9cafdece.eml000066400000000000000000000016151444326627400315630ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 20:24:15 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 15:24:15 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: <200209061431.g86EVM114413@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: 

[Guido]
> ...
> - A program that acts both as a pop client and a pop server.  You
>   configure it by telling it about your real pop servers.  You then
>   point your mail reader to the pop server at localhost.  When it
>   receives a connection, it connects to the remote pop servers, reads
>   your mail, and gives you only the non-spam.

FYI, I'll never trust such a scheme:  I have no tolerance for false
positives, and indeed do nothing to try to block spam on any of my email
accounts now for that reason.  Deliver all suspected spam to a Spam folder
instead and I'd love it.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1772.d4ebf95243e3b22d80ea63a1f2be06cc.eml000066400000000000000000000023031444326627400314020ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: guido@python.org
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 20:24:38 2002
From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 15:24:38 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 06 Sep 2002 15:24:15 EDT."
              
References:  
Message-ID: <200209061924.g86JOc516514@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

> > - A program that acts both as a pop client and a pop server.  You
> >   configure it by telling it about your real pop servers.  You then
> >   point your mail reader to the pop server at localhost.  When it
> >   receives a connection, it connects to the remote pop servers, reads
> >   your mail, and gives you only the non-spam.
> 
> FYI, I'll never trust such a scheme:  I have no tolerance for false
> positives, and indeed do nothing to try to block spam on any of my email
> accounts now for that reason.  Deliver all suspected spam to a Spam folder
> instead and I'd love it.

Another config parameter.

The filter could add a header file.  Or a ~ to the subject if you like
that style. :-)

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1773.2f86bbeac16f343c0c9e8d9d363cabb2.eml000066400000000000000000000016151444326627400315030ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 20:21:22 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 15:21:22 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: <200209061431.g86EVM114413@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: 

[Guido]
>   ...
>   I don't know how big that pickle would be, maybe loading it each time
>   is fine.  Or maybe marshalling.)

My tests train on about 7,000 msgs, and a binary pickle of the database is
approaching 10 million bytes.  I haven't done anything to try to reduce its
size, and know of some specific problem areas (for example, doing character
5-grams of "long words" containing high-bit characters generates a lot of
database entries, and I suspect they're approximately worthless).  OTOH,
adding in more headers will increase the size.  So let's call it 10 meg
.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1774.572d5d58699f0b03e959bbdc6ee14e83.eml000066400000000000000000000026461444326627400312430ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 20:43:56 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 15:43:56 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: <200209061431.g86EVM114413@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: 

[Guido]
> Takers?  How is ESR's bogofilter packaged?  SpamAssassin?  The Perl
> Bayes filter advertised on slashdot?

WRT the last, it's a small pile of Windows .exe files along with
cygwin1.dll.  The .exes are cmdline programs.  One is a POP3 proxy.  If I
currently have an email server named, say, mail.comcast.net, with user name
timmy, then I change my email reader to say that my server is 127.0.0.1, and
that my user name on that server is mail.comcast.net:timmy.  In that way the
proxy picks up both the real server and user names from what the mail reader
tells it the user name is.

This is an N-way classifier (like ifile that way), and "all it does" is
insert a

    X-Text-Classification:  one_of_the_class_names_you_picked

header into your email before passing it on to your mail reader.  The user
then presumably fiddles their mail reader to look for such headers and "do
something about it" (and even Outlook can handle *that* much ).

The user is responsible for generating text files with appropriate examples
of each class of message, and for running the cmdline tools to train the
classifier.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1775.dd744a40e87e0715cd0153fef3a63a99.eml000066400000000000000000000032011444326627400312040ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: whisper@oz.net
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 20:53:36 2002
From: whisper@oz.net (David LeBlanc)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 12:53:36 -0700
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

You missed the part that said that spam is kept in the "eThunk" and was
viewable by a simple viewer for final disposition?

Of course, with Outbloat, you could fire up PythonWin and stuff the spam
into the Junk Email folder... but then you loose the ability to retrain on
the user classified ham/spam.

David LeBlanc
Seattle, WA USA

> -----Original Message-----
> From: spambayes-bounces+whisper=oz.net@python.org
> [mailto:spambayes-bounces+whisper=oz.net@python.org]On Behalf Of Tim
> Peters
> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2002 12:24
> To: spambayes@python.org
> Subject: RE: [Spambayes] Deployment
>
>
> [Guido]
> > ...
> > - A program that acts both as a pop client and a pop server.  You
> >   configure it by telling it about your real pop servers.  You then
> >   point your mail reader to the pop server at localhost.  When it
> >   receives a connection, it connects to the remote pop servers, reads
> >   your mail, and gives you only the non-spam.
>
> FYI, I'll never trust such a scheme:  I have no tolerance for false
> positives, and indeed do nothing to try to block spam on any of my email
> accounts now for that reason.  Deliver all suspected spam to a Spam folder
> instead and I'd love it.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Spambayes mailing list
> Spambayes@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman-21/listinfo/spambayes

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1776.6a0570ff6d45b717e0b6352d8fbf7ad4.eml000066400000000000000000000037561444326627400313050ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: neale@woozle.org
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 20:58:33 2002
From: neale@woozle.org (Neale Pickett)
Date: 06 Sep 2002 12:58:33 -0700
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

So then, Tim Peters  is all like:

> [Guido]
> >   ...
> >   I don't know how big that pickle would be, maybe loading it each time
> >   is fine.  Or maybe marshalling.)
> 
> My tests train on about 7,000 msgs, and a binary pickle of the database is
> approaching 10 million bytes.

My paltry 3000-message training set makes a 6.3MB (where 1MB=1e6 bytes)
pickle.  hammie.py, which I just checked in, will optionally let you
write stuff out to a dbm file.  With that same message base, the dbm
file weighs in at a hefty 21.4MB.  It also takes longer to write:

  Using a database:
   real    8m24.741s
   user    6m19.410s
   sys     1m33.650s

  Using a pickle:
   real    1m39.824s
   user    1m36.400s
   sys     0m2.160s

This is on a PIII at 551.257MHz (I don't know what it's *supposed* to
be, 551.257 is what /proc/cpuinfo says).

For comparison, SpamOracle (currently the gold standard in my mind, at
least for speed) on the same data blazes along:

   real    0m29.592s
   user    0m28.050s
   sys     0m1.180s

Its data file, which appears to be a marshalled hash, is 448KB.
However, it's compiled O'Caml and it uses a much simpler tokenizing
algorithm written with a lexical analyzer (ocamllex), so we'll never be
able to outperform it.  It's something to keep in mind, though.

I don't have statistics yet for scanning unknown messages.  (Actually, I
do, and the database blows the pickle out of the water, but it scores
every word with 0.00, so I'm not sure that's a fair test. ;)  In any
case, 21MB per user is probably too large, and 10MB is questionable.  

On the other hand, my pickle compressed very well with gzip, shrinking
down to 1.8MB.

Neale
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1777.6bb054bf786bfbfeacc78dd1918ffbfa.eml000066400000000000000000000016631444326627400317500ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 22:32:21 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 17:32:21 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

[Tim]
> My tests train on about 7,000 msgs, and a binary pickle of the database is
> approaching 10 million bytes.

That shrinks to under 2 million bytes, though, if I delete all the WordInfo
records with spamprob exactly equal to UNKNOWN_SPAMPROB.  Such records
aren't needed when scoring (an unknown word gets a made-up probability of
UNKNOWN_SPAMPROB).  Such records are only needed for training; I've noted
before that a scoring-only database can be leaner.

In part the bloat is due to character 5-gram'ing, part due to that the
database is brand new so has never been cleaned via clearjunk(), and part
due to plain evil gremlins.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1778.5e3a4fdad399e2557d6921d7e938faef.eml000066400000000000000000000037631444326627400314130ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: neale@woozle.org
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 22:44:33 2002
From: neale@woozle.org (Neale Pickett)
Date: 06 Sep 2002 14:44:33 -0700
Subject: [Spambayes] Deployment
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

So then, Tim Peters  is all like:

> [Tim]
> > My tests train on about 7,000 msgs, and a binary pickle of the database is
> > approaching 10 million bytes.
> 
> That shrinks to under 2 million bytes, though, if I delete all the WordInfo
> records with spamprob exactly equal to UNKNOWN_SPAMPROB.  Such records
> aren't needed when scoring (an unknown word gets a made-up probability of
> UNKNOWN_SPAMPROB).  Such records are only needed for training; I've noted
> before that a scoring-only database can be leaner.

That's pretty good.  I wonder how much better you could do by using some
custom pickler.  I just checked my little dbm file and found a lot of
what I would call bloat:

  >>> import anydbm, hammie
  >>> d = hammie.PersistentGrahamBayes("ham.db")
  >>> db = anydbm.open("ham.db")
  >>> db["neale"], len(db["neale"])
  ('ccopy_reg\n_reconstructor\nq\x01(cclassifier\nWordInfo\nq\x02c__builtin__\nobject\nq\x03NtRq\x04(GA\xce\xbc{\xfd\x94\xbboK\x00K\x00K\x00G?\xe0\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00tb.', 106)
  >>> d.wordinfo["neale"], len(`d.wordinfo["neale"]`)
  (WordInfo'(1031337979.16197, 0, 0, 0, 0.5)', 42)

Ignoring the fact that there are too many zeros in there, the pickled
version of that WordInfo object is over twice as large as the string
representation.  So we could get a 50% decrease in size just by using
the string representation instead of the pickle, right?

Something about that logic seems wrong to me, but I can't see what it
is.  Maybe pickling is good for heterogeneous data types, but every
value of our big dictionary is going to have the same type, so there's a
ton of redundancy.  I guess that explains why it compressed so well.

Neale
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1779.b1039d148dbb347b468973dc6bfe0319.eml000066400000000000000000000013151444326627400311350ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: skip@pobox.com
Delivery-Date: Fri Sep  6 23:39:48 2002
From: skip@pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 17:39:48 -0500
Subject: [Spambayes] understanding high false negative rate
In-Reply-To: 
References: <15737.2576.315460.956295@slothrop.zope.com>
        
Message-ID: <15737.11956.18745.619040@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>


    >> > ##Remove: jeremy@alum.mit.edu##

    Tim> Yuck: it got two 0.01's from embedding your email address at the
    Tim> bottom here.

Which suggests that tagging email addresses in To/CC headers should be
handled differently than in message bodies?

Skip



golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1780.35908078146d2d19fccf8b786aa83cf7.eml000066400000000000000000000020331444326627400311440ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 00:03:58 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 19:03:58 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] understanding high false negative rate
In-Reply-To: <15737.11956.18745.619040@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: 

>     >> > ##Remove: jeremy@alum.mit.edu##
>
>     Tim> Yuck: it got two 0.01's from embedding your email address at the
>     Tim> bottom here.
>
> Which suggests that tagging email addresses in To/CC headers should be
> handled differently than in message bodies?

I don't know whether it suggests that, but they would be tagged differently
in to/cc if I were tagging them at all right now.  If I were tagging To:
addresses, for example, the tokens would look like

    'to:email addr:mit'

instead of

    'email addr:mit'

as they appear when an email-like thingie is found in the body.  Whether
email addresses should be stuck in as one blob or split up as they are now
is something I haven't tested.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1781.8f5053b1fda58d8224b0fb4827413912.eml000066400000000000000000000014331444326627400307600ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 00:21:15 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 19:21:15 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] [ANN] Trained classifier available
In-Reply-To: <20020906162505.GB17800@cthulhu.gerg.ca>
Message-ID: 

    http://sf.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=61702

    This is the binary pickle of my classifier after training on
    my first spam/ham corpora pair.  All records with
    spamprob == UNKNOWN_SPAMPROB have been purged.

It's in a zip file, and is only half a meg.

Jeremy, it would be interesting if you tried that on your data.  The false
negative rates across my other 4 test sets when run against this are:

      0.364%
      0.400%
      0.400%
      0.909%

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1782.e027f2af78c05f8498f09d7979cd127d.eml000066400000000000000000000107571444326627400311740ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: jeremy@alum.mit.edu
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 01:00:14 2002
From: jeremy@alum.mit.edu (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 20:00:14 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] understanding high false negative rate
In-Reply-To: 
References: <15737.2576.315460.956295@slothrop.zope.com>
	
Message-ID: <15737.16782.542869.368986@slothrop.zope.com>

>>>>> "TP" == Tim Peters  writes:

  >> The false positive rate is 0-3%.  (Finally!  I had to scrub a
  >> bunch of previously unnoticed spam from my inbox.)  Both
  >> collections have about 1100 messages.

  TP> Does this mean you trained on about 1100 of each?

The total collections are 1100 messages.  I trained with 1100/5
messages. 

  TP> Can't guess.  You're in a good position to start adding more
  TP> headers into the analysis, though.  For example, an easy start
  TP> would be to uncomment the header-counting lines in tokenize()
  TP> (look for "Anthony").  Likely the most valuable thing it's
  TP> missing then is some special parsing and tagging of Received
  TP> headers.

I tried the "Anthony" stuff, but it didn't make any appreciable
difference that I could see from staring at the false negative rate.
The numbers are big enough that a quick eyeball suffices.

Then I tried a dirt simple tokenizer for the headers that tokenize the
words in the header and emitted like this "%s: %s" % (hdr, word).
That worked too well :-).  The received and date headers helped the
classifier discover that most of my spam is old and most of my ham is
new.

So I tried a slightly more complex one that skipped received, data,
and x-from_, which all contained timestamps.  I also skipped the X-VM-
headers that my mail reader added:

class MyTokenizer(Tokenizer):

    skip = {'received': 1,
            'date': 1,
            'x-from_': 1,
            }

    def tokenize_headers(self, msg):
        for k, v in msg.items():
            k = k.lower()
            if k in self.skip or k.startswith('x-vm'):
                continue
            for w in subject_word_re.findall(v):
                for t in tokenize_word(w):
                    yield "%s:%s" % (k, t)

This did moderately better.  The false negative rate is 7-21% over the
tests performed so far.  This is versus 11-28% for the previous test
run that used the timtest header tokenizer.

It's interesting to see that the best descriminators are all ham
discriminators.  There's not a single spam-indicator in the list.
Most of the discriminators are header fields.  One thing to note is
that the presence of Mailman-generated headers is a strong non-spam
indicator.  That matches my intuition: I got an awful lot of
Mailman-generated mail, and those lists are pretty good at surpressing
spam.  The other thing is that I get a lot of ham from people who use
XEmacs.  That's probably Barry, Guido, Fred, and me :-).

One final note.  It looks like many of the false positives are from
people I've never met with questions about Shakespeare.  They often
start with stuff like:

> Dear Sir/Madam,
> 
> May I please take some of your precious time to ask you to help me to find a
> solution to a problem that is worrying me greatly. I am old science student

I guess that reads a lot like spam :-(.

Jeremy


238 hams & 221 spams
    false positive: 2.10084033613
    false negative: 9.50226244344
    new false positives: []
    new false negatives: []

    best discriminators:
        'x-mailscanner:clean' 671 0.0483425
        'x-spam-status:IN_REP_TO' 679 0.01
        'delivered-to:skip:s 10' 691 0.0829876
        'x-mailer:Lucid' 699 0.01
        'x-mailer:XEmacs' 699 0.01
        'x-mailer:patch' 699 0.01
        'x-mailer:under' 709 0.01
        'x-mailscanner:Found' 716 0.0479124
        'cc:zope.com' 718 0.01
        "i'll" 750 0.01
        'references:skip:1 20' 767 0.01
        'rossum' 795 0.01
        'x-spam-status:skip:S 10' 825 0.01
        'van' 850 0.01
        'http0:zope' 869 0.01
        'email addr:zope' 883 0.01
        'from:python.org' 895 0.01
        'to:jeremy' 902 0.185401
        'zope' 984 0.01
        'list-archive:skip:m 10' 1058 0.01
        'list-subscribe:skip:m 10' 1058 0.01
        'list-unsubscribe:skip:m 10' 1058 0.01
        'from:zope.com' 1098 0.01
        'return-path:zope.com' 1115 0.01
        'wrote:' 1129 0.01
        'jeremy' 1150 0.01
        'email addr:python' 1257 0.01
        'x-mailman-version:2.0.13' 1311 0.01
        'x-mailman-version:101270' 1395 0.01
        'python' 1401 0.01

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1783.3c26c587b4fe3b681981c38f90593e02.eml000066400000000000000000000041251444326627400310070ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 01:06:56 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 20:06:56 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Ditching WordInfo
In-Reply-To: 
Message-ID: 

[Neale Pickett]
> I hacked up something to turn WordInfo into a tuple before pickling,

That's what WordInfo.__getstate__ does.

> and then turn the tuple back into WordInfo right after unpickling.

Likewise for WordInfo.__setstate__.

> Without this hack, my database was 21549056 bytes.  After, it's 9945088
bytes.
> That's a 50% savings, not a bad optimization.

I'm not sure what you're doing, but suspect you're storing individual
WordInfo pickles.  If so, most of the administrative pickle bloat is due to
that, and doesn't happen if you pickle an entire classifier instance
directly.

> So my question is, would it be too painful to ditch WordInfo in favor of
> a straight out tuple?  (Or list if you'd rather, although making it a
> tuple has the nice side-effect of forcing you to play nice with my
> DBDict class).
>
> I hope doing this sort of optimization isn't too far distant from the
> goal of this project, even though README.txt says it is :)
>
> Diff attached.  I'm not comfortable checking this in,

I think it's healthy that you're uncomfortable checking things in with

> +            # XXX: kludge kludge kludge.

comments .

> since I don't really like how it works (I'd rather just get rid of
WordInfo).
> But I guess it proves the point :)

I'm not interested in optimizing anything yet, and get many benefits from
the *ease* of working with utterly vanilla Python instance objects.  Lots of
code all over picks these apart for display and analysis purposes.  Very few
people have tried this code yet, and there are still many questions about it
(see, e.g., Jeremy's writeup of his disappointing first-time experiences
today).  Let's keep it as easy as possible to modify for now.  If you're
desparate to save memory, write a subclass?

Other people are free to vote in other directions, of course .

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1784.0e74974631f665395f5e6b01148b4bee.eml000066400000000000000000000022651444326627400310100ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 01:18:18 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 20:18:18 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] test sets?
In-Reply-To: <15736.57093.811682.371784@anthem.wooz.org>
Message-ID: 

[Barry]
> Here's an interesting thing to test: discriminate words differently if
> they are on a line that starts with `>' or, to catch styles like
> above, that the first occurance on a line of < or > is > (to eliminate
> html).

Give me a mod to timtoken.py that does this, and I'll be happy to test it.

> Then again, it may not be worth trying to un-false-positive that
> Nigerian scam quote.

If there's any sanity in the world, even the original poster would be glad
to have his kneejerk response blocked .  OTOH, you know there are a
great many msgs on c.l.py (all over Usenet) that do nothing except quote a
previous post and add a one-line comment.  Remove the quoted sections from
those, and there may be no content left to judge except for the headers.  So
I can see this nudging the stats in either direction.  The only way to find
out for sure is for you to write some code .

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1785.aabc3014dc8e7bbf3748d1e1b2afbf56.eml000066400000000000000000000015761444326627400315620ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 01:32:26 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 20:32:26 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] understanding high false negative rate
In-Reply-To: <15737.16782.542869.368986@slothrop.zope.com>
Message-ID: 

[Jeremy Hylton[
> The total collections are 1100 messages.  I trained with 1100/5
> messages.

I'm reading this now as that you trained on about 220 spam and about 220
ham.  That's less than 10% of the sizes of the training sets I've been
using.  Please try an experiment:  train on 550 of each, and test once
against the other 550 of each.  Do that a few times making a random split
each time (it won't be long until you discover why directories of individual
files are a lot easier to work -- e.g., random.shuffle() makes this kind of
thing trivial for me).

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1786.59383d91430d9cb58e7d0aa4e25b1320.eml000066400000000000000000000112601444326627400310410ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 03:51:24 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 22:51:24 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] understanding high false negative rate
In-Reply-To: <15737.16782.542869.368986@slothrop.zope.com>
Message-ID: 

[Jeremy]
> The total collections are 1100 messages.  I trained with 1100/5
> messages.

While that's not a lot of training data, I picked random subsets of my
corpora and got much better behavior (this is rates.py output; f-p rate per
run in left column, f-n rate in right):

Training on Data/Ham/Set1 & Data/Spam/Set1 ... 220 hams & 220 spams
      0.000   1.364
      0.000   0.455
      0.000   1.818
      0.000   1.364
Training on Data/Ham/Set2 & Data/Spam/Set2 ... 220 hams & 220 spams
      0.455   2.727
      0.455   0.455
      0.000   0.909
      0.455   2.273
Training on Data/Ham/Set3 & Data/Spam/Set3 ... 220 hams & 220 spams
      0.000   2.727
      0.455   0.909
      0.000   0.909
      0.000   1.818
Training on Data/Ham/Set4 & Data/Spam/Set4 ... 220 hams & 220 spams
      0.000   2.727
      0.000   0.909
      0.000   0.909
      0.000   1.818
Training on Data/Ham/Set5 & Data/Spam/Set5 ... 220 hams & 220 spams
      0.000   1.818
      0.000   1.364
      0.000   0.909
      0.000   2.273
total false pos 4 0.363636363636
total false neg 29 2.63636363636

Another full run with another randomly chosen (but disjoint) 220 of each in
each set was much the same.  The score distribution is also quite sharp:

Ham distribution for all runs:
* = 74 items
  0.00 4381 ************************************************************
  2.50    3 *
  5.00    3 *
  7.50    1 *
 10.00    0
 12.50    0
 15.00    1 *
 17.50    1 *
 20.00    1 *
 22.50    0
 25.00    0
 27.50    0
 30.00    1 *
 32.50    0
 35.00    0
 37.50    0
 40.00    1 *
 42.50    0
 45.00    0
 47.50    0
 50.00    0
 52.50    0
 55.00    0
 57.50    1 *
 60.00    0
 62.50    0
 65.00    0
 67.50    1 *
 70.00    0
 72.50    0
 75.00    0
 77.50    0
 80.00    0
 82.50    0
 85.00    0
 87.50    1 *
 90.00    0
 92.50    2 *
 95.00    0
 97.50    2 *

Spam distribution for all runs:
* = 73 items
  0.00   13 *
  2.50    0
  5.00    4 *
  7.50    5 *
 10.00    0
 12.50    2 *
 15.00    1 *
 17.50    1 *
 20.00    2 *
 22.50    1 *
 25.00    0
 27.50    1 *
 30.00    0
 32.50    3 *
 35.00    0
 37.50    0
 40.00    0
 42.50    0
 45.00    1 *
 47.50    3 *
 50.00   16 *
 52.50    0
 55.00    0
 57.50    0
 60.00    1 *
 62.50    0
 65.00    2 *
 67.50    1 *
 70.00    1 *
 72.50    0
 75.00    1 *
 77.50    0
 80.00    3 *
 82.50    2 *
 85.00    1 *
 87.50    2 *
 90.00    2 *
 92.50    4 *
 95.00    4 *
 97.50 4323 ************************************************************

It's hard to say whether you need better ham or better spam, but I suspect
better spam .  18 of the 30 most powerful discriminators here were
HTML-related spam indicators; the top 10 overall were:

        '' 312 0.99
        '' 329 0.99
        'click' 334 0.99
        '' 335 0.99
        'wrote:' 381 0.01
        'skip:< 10' 398 0.99
        'python' 428 0.01
        'content-type:text/html' 454 0.99

The HTML tags come from non-multipart/alternative HTML messages, from which
HTML tags aren't stripped, and there are lots of these in my spam sets.

That doesn't account for it, though.  If I strip HTML tags out of those too,
the rates are only a little worse:

raining on Data/Ham/Set1 & Data/Spam/Set1 ... 220 hams & 220 spams
     0.000   1.364
     0.000   1.818
     0.455   1.818
     0.000   1.818
raining on Data/Ham/Set2 & Data/Spam/Set2 ... 220 hams & 220 spams
     0.000   1.364
     0.455   1.818
     0.455   0.909
     0.000   1.818
raining on Data/Ham/Set3 & Data/Spam/Set3 ... 220 hams & 220 spams
     0.000   2.727
     0.000   0.909
     0.909   0.909
     0.455   1.818
raining on Data/Ham/Set4 & Data/Spam/Set4 ... 220 hams & 220 spams
     0.000   1.818
     0.000   0.909
     0.455   0.909
     0.000   1.364
raining on Data/Ham/Set5 & Data/Spam/Set5 ... 220 hams & 220 spams
     0.000   2.727
     0.000   1.364
     0.455   2.273
     0.455   2.273
otal false pos 4 0.363636363636
otal false neg 34 3.09090909091

The 4th-strongest discriminator *still* finds another HTML clue, though!

        'subject:Python' 164 0.01
        'money' 169 0.99
        'content-type:text/plain' 185 0.2
        'charset:us-ascii' 191 0.127273
        "i'm" 232 0.01
        'content-type:text/html' 248 0.983607
        ' ' 255 0.99
        'wrote:' 372 0.01
        'python' 431 0.01
        'click' 519 0.99

Heh.  I forgot all about  .

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1787.94ca5ccaec9be05c252bf32961a86a3d.eml000066400000000000000000000023761444326627400314320ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: anthony@interlink.com.au
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 04:38:51 2002
From: anthony@interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 13:38:51 +1000
Subject: [Spambayes] test sets? 
In-Reply-To:  
Message-ID: <200209070338.g873cpp20640@localhost.localdomain>


> > Note that header names are case insensitive, so this one's no
> > different than "MIME-Version:".  Similarly other headers in your list.
> 
> Ignoring case here may or may not help; that's for experiment to decide.
> It's plausible that case is significant, if, e.g., a particular spam mailing
> package generates unusual case, or a particular clueless spammer
> misconfigures his package.

I found it made no difference for my testing.

> The brilliance of Anthony's "just count them" scheme is that it requires no
> thought, so can't be fooled .  Header lines that are evenly
> distributed across spam and ham will turn out to be worthless indicators
> (prob near 0.5), so do no harm.

zactly. I started off doing clever clever things, and, as always with
this stuff, found that stupid with a rock beats smart with scissors,
every time.


-- 
Anthony Baxter        
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1788.26beacaa0fa03cb6199c57b8a99a2852.eml000066400000000000000000000015231444326627400313450ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: anthony@interlink.com.au
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 04:44:50 2002
From: anthony@interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 13:44:50 +1000
Subject: [Spambayes] understanding high false negative rate 
In-Reply-To: 
	<200209062026.g86KQqJ03393@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net> 
Message-ID: <200209070344.g873io020676@localhost.localdomain>


> Looks like your ham corpus by and large has To: jeremy@alum.mit.edu in
> a header while your spam corpus by and large doesn't.  But this one
> does.

Interestingly, for me, one of the highest value spam indicators was
the name of the mail host that the spam was delivered to, in the To:
line. So mail to info@gin.elax2.ekorp.com was pretty much a dead cert
for the filters.


-- 
Anthony Baxter        
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1789.146b27f3890e3350b0e596b42e18a985.eml000066400000000000000000000023401444326627400307210ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: anthony@interlink.com.au
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 04:50:37 2002
From: anthony@interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 13:50:37 +1000
Subject: [Spambayes] understanding high false negative rate 
In-Reply-To: <15737.16782.542869.368986@slothrop.zope.com> 
Message-ID: <200209070350.g873obE20720@localhost.localdomain>


>>> Jeremy Hylton wrote
> Then I tried a dirt simple tokenizer for the headers that tokenize the
> words in the header and emitted like this "%s: %s" % (hdr, word).
> That worked too well :-).  The received and date headers helped the
> classifier discover that most of my spam is old and most of my ham is
> new.

Heh. I hit the same problem, but the other way round, when I first
started playing with this - I'd collected spam for a week or two, 
then mixed it up with randomly selected messages from my mail boxes.

course, it instantly picked up on 'received:2001' as a non-ham. 

Curse that too-smart-for-me software. Still, it's probably a good
thing to note in the documentation about the software - when collecting
spam/ham, make _sure_ you try and collect from the same source.


Anthony

-- 
Anthony Baxter        
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1790.305d7c2b4c83864ca868937855ad1b27.eml000066400000000000000000000011271444326627400310010ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: anthony@interlink.com.au
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 04:52:54 2002
From: anthony@interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 13:52:54 +1000
Subject: [Spambayes] understanding high false negative rate 
In-Reply-To: <200209070350.g873obE20720@localhost.localdomain> 
Message-ID: <200209070352.g873qs820746@localhost.localdomain>



> course, it instantly picked up on 'received:2001' as a non-ham. 
                                                            -spam.

*sigh*


-- 
Anthony Baxter        
It's never too late to have a happy childhood.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1791.77ff25da8e59d16dfba5c708a0cf3b69.eml000066400000000000000000000021141444326627400314370ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: guido@python.org
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 04:51:12 2002
From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 23:51:12 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] hammie.py vs. GBayes.py
Message-ID: <200209070351.g873pC613144@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

There seem to be two "drivers" for the classifier now: Neale Pickett's
hammie.py, and the original GBayes.py.  According to the README.txt,
GBayes.py hasn't been kept up to date.  Is there anything in there
that isn't covered by hammie.py?  About the only useful feature of
GBayes.py that hammie.py doesn't (yet) copy is -u, which calculates
spamness for an entire mailbox.  This feature can easily be copied
into hammie.py.  (GBayes.py also has a large collection of tokenizers;
but timtoken.py rules, so I'm not sure how interesting that is now.)

Therefore I propose to nuke GBayes.py, after adding a -u feature.

Anyone against?  (I imagine that Skip or Barry might have a stake in
GBayes.py; Tim seems to have moved all code he's working to other
modules.)

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1792.f3dfa7db118b7738bcdaa1cd81a0f1e2.eml000066400000000000000000000012321444326627400315430ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: skip@pobox.com
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 05:05:45 2002
From: skip@pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 23:05:45 -0500
Subject: [Spambayes] Maybe change X-Spam-Disposition to something else...
Message-ID: <15737.31513.555967.915801@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>


I actually like Neale's X-Spam-Disposition header, I just wonder if maybe we
should choose something with a different prefix than "X-Spam-" so that
people don't confuse it with SpamAssassin, all of whose headers begin with
that prefix.

Also, some sort of version information would be useful.  Perhaps the CVS
version number for the classifier module could be tacked on.

Skip
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1793.c20b0ff2930d9b36d7aa70e54939d12c.eml000066400000000000000000000017571444326627400312110ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: anthony@interlink.com.au
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 05:10:37 2002
From: anthony@interlink.com.au (Anthony Baxter)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 14:10:37 +1000
Subject: [Spambayes] Maybe change X-Spam-Disposition to something else... 
In-Reply-To: <15737.31513.555967.915801@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com> 
Message-ID: <200209070410.g874Ab620880@localhost.localdomain>


>>> Skip Montanaro wrote
> 
> I actually like Neale's X-Spam-Disposition header, I just wonder if maybe we
> should choose something with a different prefix than "X-Spam-" so that
> people don't confuse it with SpamAssassin, all of whose headers begin with
> that prefix.

I think it's fine, in general, just so long as no-one checks in anything
that puts it into my test corpus.

Or alternately, whatever is chosen should be ignored by the tokenizer. 
I know my mail host (interlink) runs SA, but I also run it, with my own
set of rules and scores. I don't want my spam-filter to be getting messed
up by an upstream spam filter.


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1794.6057cf5e982869286b4742cee5639a4b.eml000066400000000000000000000012741444326627400310270ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: skip@pobox.com
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 05:30:31 2002
From: skip@pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 23:30:31 -0500
Subject: [Spambayes] hammie.py vs. GBayes.py
In-Reply-To: <200209070351.g873pC613144@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
References: <200209070351.g873pC613144@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <15737.32999.256881.434812@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>


    Guido> Therefore I propose to nuke GBayes.py, after adding a -u feature.

    Guido> Anyone against?  (I imagine that Skip or Barry might have a stake
    Guido> in GBayes.py; Tim seems to have moved all code he's working to
    Guido> other modules.)

No argument here.

Skip
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1795.3349a6670b58d2a39307e87ae0012294.eml000066400000000000000000000005601444326627400306270ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: skip@pobox.com
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 05:46:01 2002
From: skip@pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 23:46:01 -0500
Subject: [Spambayes] speed
Message-ID: <15737.33929.716821.779152@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>


If the frequency of my laptop's disk chirps are any indication, I'd say
hammie is about 3-5x faster than SpamAssassin.

Skip

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1796.5f6c04f93ace9da3b5f9e0906ba608c2.eml000066400000000000000000000010301444326627400313460ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: skip@pobox.com
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 06:15:54 2002
From: skip@pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 00:15:54 -0500
Subject: [Spambayes] can't write to CVS...
Message-ID: <15737.35722.956784.600958@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>

I'm listed as a developer on SF and have the spambayes CVS module checked
out using my SF username, but I'm unable to write to the repository.  CVS
complains:

    % cvs add unheader.py
    cvs [server aborted]: "add" requires write access to the repository

Any thoughts?

Skip
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1797.5bae1500a6c23344cde8b81dd95a2dd7.eml000066400000000000000000000030331444326627400313340ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: neale@woozle.org
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 06:17:28 2002
From: neale@woozle.org (Neale Pickett)
Date: 06 Sep 2002 22:17:28 -0700
Subject: [Spambayes] Ditching WordInfo
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 

So then, Tim Peters  is all like:

> I'm not sure what you're doing, but suspect you're storing individual
> WordInfo pickles.  If so, most of the administrative pickle bloat is
> due to that, and doesn't happen if you pickle an entire classifier
> instance directly.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was doing--I didn't realize I was incurring
administrative pickle bloat this way.  I'm specifically trying to make
things faster and smaller, so I'm storing individual WordInfo pickles
into an anydbm dict (keyed by token).  The result is that it's almost 50
times faster to score messages one per run our of procmail (.408s vs
18.851s).

However, it *does* say all over the place that the goal of this project
isn't to make the fastest or the smallest implementation, so I guess
I'll hold off doing any further performance tuning until the goal starts
to point more in that direction.  .4 seconds is probably fast enough for
people to use it in their procmailrc, which is what I was after.

> If you're desparate to save memory, write a subclass?

That's probably what I'll do if I get too antsy :)

Trying to think of ways to sneak "administrative pickle boat" into
casual conversation,

Neale
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1798.5914721a121b85cfdc0e39bf4b4e8970.eml000066400000000000000000000026771444326627400311470ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: guido@python.org
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 06:33:23 2002
From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 01:33:23 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Ditching WordInfo
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 06 Sep 2002 22:17:28 PDT."
              
References:   
             
Message-ID: <200209070533.g875XN813509@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

> Yeah, that's exactly what I was doing--I didn't realize I was
> incurring administrative pickle bloat this way.  I'm specifically
> trying to make things faster and smaller, so I'm storing individual
> WordInfo pickles into an anydbm dict (keyed by token).  The result
> is that it's almost 50 times faster to score messages one per run
> our of procmail (.408s vs 18.851s).

This is very worthwhile.

> However, it *does* say all over the place that the goal of this
> project isn't to make the fastest or the smallest implementation, so
> I guess I'll hold off doing any further performance tuning until the
> goal starts to point more in that direction.  .4 seconds is probably
> fast enough for people to use it in their procmailrc, which is what
> I was after.

Maybe.  I batch messages using fetchmail (don't ask why), and adding
.4 seconds per message for a batch of 50 (not untypical) feels like a
real wait to me...

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1799.70dc9da58ada190c2c66f34986636594.eml000066400000000000000000000017451444326627400311040ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 06:36:41 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 01:36:41 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] can't write to CVS...
In-Reply-To: <15737.35722.956784.600958@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: 

[Skip Montanaro]
> I'm listed as a developer on SF and have the spambayes CVS module checked
> out using my SF username, but I'm unable to write to the repository.  CVS
> complains:
>
>     % cvs add unheader.py
>     cvs [server aborted]: "add" requires write access to the repository
>
> Any thoughts?

Not really.  Try again?  About half the developers on the spambayes project
were missing some permission or other, so I ran thru all of them and checked
every damned box and clicked on every damn dropdown list I could find.  As
far as SF is concerned, you're all sitting on God's Right Hand now, so if it
still doesn't work I suggest you upgrade to Win98 .

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1800.75f57c5146462b574d13349e5c0c4bcc.eml000066400000000000000000000017751444326627400310470ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: skip@pobox.com
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 06:40:18 2002
From: skip@pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 00:40:18 -0500
Subject: [Spambayes] can't write to CVS...
In-Reply-To: 
References: <15737.35722.956784.600958@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>
        
Message-ID: <15737.37186.513740.936811@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>


    Tim> About half the developers on the spambayes project were missing
    Tim> some permission or other, so I ran thru all of them and checked
    Tim> every damned box and clicked on every damn dropdown list I could
    Tim> find.  As far as SF is concerned, you're all sitting on God's Right
    Tim> Hand now, so if it still doesn't work I suggest you upgrade to
    Tim> Win98 .

Time to upgrade I guess. :-(

    % cvs add unheader.py 
    cvs [server aborted]: "add" requires write access to the repository

I'll try a checkout into a new directory...

S
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1801.906dd11cca6bee22c6843afb597c87a3.eml000066400000000000000000000013301444326627400313320ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 06:40:45 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 01:40:45 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Maybe change X-Spam-Disposition to something else...
In-Reply-To: <15737.33815.719456.367026@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: 

[Skip Montanaro, to Anthony Baxter]
> ...
> Accordingly, I wrote unheader.py, which is mostly a ripoff of something
> someone else posted to python-dev or c.l.py within the last week or so to
> strip out SA-generated headers.

Unless I've grown senile tonight, you got it from Anthony to begin with.
Please check it in to project, and add a short blurb to README.txt!

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1802.235f7aea351e2aa201447c134468f723.eml000066400000000000000000000014401444326627400307340ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: skip@pobox.com
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 06:43:31 2002
From: skip@pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 00:43:31 -0500
Subject: [Spambayes] Maybe change X-Spam-Disposition to something else...
In-Reply-To: 
References: <15737.31513.555967.915801@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>
        
Message-ID: <15737.37379.699338.64767@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>


    >> ... choose something with a different prefix than "X-Spam-" so that
    >> people don't confuse it with SpamAssassin ...

    Neale> How about X-Spambayes-Disposition (or X-Hammie-Disposition if
    Neale> there'll be other classifier front-ends)?

I kinda like "hammie".  Your front end was there first, so I suspect it will
rule the front end roost.

S

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1803.03a577fc11e0a5121098e0dc83c97d6c.eml000066400000000000000000000012301444326627400311020ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: skip@pobox.com
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 06:45:23 2002
From: skip@pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 00:45:23 -0500
Subject: [Spambayes] can't write to CVS...
In-Reply-To: <15737.37186.513740.936811@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>
References: <15737.35722.956784.600958@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>
        
        <15737.37186.513740.936811@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>
Message-ID: <15737.37491.890945.752437@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>


    Skip> I'll try a checkout into a new directory...

Which didn't help.  At the very least I think that means it's time for
bed...

Skip

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1804.a28b76746a64d3d352375a462f4f8404.eml000066400000000000000000000016001444326627400307020ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: skip@pobox.com
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 06:46:41 2002
From: skip@pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 00:46:41 -0500
Subject: [Spambayes] Maybe change X-Spam-Disposition to something else...
In-Reply-To: 
References: <15737.33815.719456.367026@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>
        
Message-ID: <15737.37569.889973.866955@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>


    >> Accordingly, I wrote unheader.py, which is mostly a ripoff of
    >> something someone else posted to python-dev or c.l.py within the last
    >> week or so to strip out SA-generated headers.

    Tim> Unless I've grown senile tonight, you got it from Anthony to begin
    Tim> with.  Please check it in to project, and add a short blurb to
    Tim> README.txt!

Raring to go, once I can write to CVS...

S
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1805.3a7add5306fcbf4ac7eb42c57c125e85.eml000066400000000000000000000023041444326627400314110ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: neale@woozle.org
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 06:48:17 2002
From: neale@woozle.org (Neale Pickett)
Date: 06 Sep 2002 22:48:17 -0700
Subject: [Spambayes] Ditching WordInfo
In-Reply-To: <200209070533.g875XN813509@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
References: 
	
	<200209070533.g875XN813509@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: 

So then, Guido van Rossum  is all like:

> Maybe.  I batch messages using fetchmail (don't ask why), and adding
> .4 seconds per message for a batch of 50 (not untypical) feels like a
> real wait to me...

Yeesh.  Sounds like what you need is something to kick up once and score
an entire mailbox.

Wait a second...  So *that's* why you wanted -u.

If you can spare the memory, you might get better performance in this
case using the pickle store, since it only has to go to disk once (but
boy, does it ever go to disk!)  I can't think of anything obvious to
speed things up once it's all loaded into memory, though.  That's
profiler territory, and profiling is exactly the kind of optimization
I just said I wasn't going to do :)

Neale
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1806.db99848ddb40f4d5a0694557363c7250.eml000066400000000000000000000026161444326627400310040ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: guido@python.org
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 07:06:31 2002
From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 02:06:31 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] Ditching WordInfo
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 06 Sep 2002 22:48:17 PDT."
              
References: 
	
	<200209070533.g875XN813509@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>  
	 
Message-ID: <200209070606.g8766Vf13736@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

> > Maybe.  I batch messages using fetchmail (don't ask why), and adding
> > .4 seconds per message for a batch of 50 (not untypical) feels like a
> > real wait to me...
> 
> Yeesh.  Sounds like what you need is something to kick up once and score
> an entire mailbox.
> 
> Wait a second...  So *that's* why you wanted -u.
> 
> If you can spare the memory, you might get better performance in this
> case using the pickle store, since it only has to go to disk once (but
> boy, does it ever go to disk!)  I can't think of anything obvious to
> speed things up once it's all loaded into memory, though.  That's
> profiler territory, and profiling is exactly the kind of optimization
> I just said I wasn't going to do :)

We could have a server mode (someone described this as an SA option).

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1807.7f2b82a41322fa94c43a0dbb75472ff4.eml000066400000000000000000000057711444326627400312030ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: jeremy@alum.mit.edu
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 18:18:17 2002
From: jeremy@alum.mit.edu (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 13:18:17 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] understanding high false negative rate
In-Reply-To: 
References: <15737.16782.542869.368986@slothrop.zope.com>
	
Message-ID: <15738.13529.407748.635725@slothrop.zope.com>

>>>>> "TP" == Tim Peters  writes:

  TP> [Jeremy Hylton[
  >> The total collections are 1100 messages.  I trained with 1100/5
  >> messages.

  TP> I'm reading this now as that you trained on about 220 spam and
  TP> about 220 ham.  That's less than 10% of the sizes of the
  TP> training sets I've been using.  Please try an experiment: train
  TP> on 550 of each, and test once against the other 550 of each.

This helps a lot!  Here are results with the stock tokenizer:

Training on  & 
 ... 644 hams & 557 spams
      0.000  10.413
      1.398   6.104
      1.398   5.027
Training on  & 
 ... 644 hams & 557 spams
      0.000   8.259
      1.242   2.873
      1.242   5.745
Training on  & 
 ... 644 hams & 557 spams
      1.398   5.206
      1.398   4.488
      0.000   9.336
Training on  & 
 ... 644 hams & 557 spams
      1.553   5.206
      1.553   5.027
      0.000   9.874
total false pos 139 5.39596273292
total false neg 970 43.5368043088

And results from the tokenizer that looks at all headers except Date,
Received, and X-From_:

Training on  & 
 ... 644 hams & 557 spams
      0.000   7.540
      0.932   4.847
      0.932   3.232
Training on  & 
 ... 644 hams & 557 spams
      0.000   7.181
      0.621   2.873
      0.621   4.847
Training on  & 
 ... 644 hams & 557 spams
      1.087   4.129
      1.087   3.052
      0.000   6.822
Training on  & 
 ... 644 hams & 557 spams
      0.776   3.411
      0.776   3.411
      0.000   6.463
total false pos 97 3.76552795031
total false neg 738 33.1238779174

Is it safe to conclude that avoiding any cleverness with headers is a
good thing?

  TP> Do that a few times making a random split each time (it won't be
  TP> long until you discover why directories of individual files are
  TP> a lot easier to work -- e.g., random.shuffle() makes this kind
  TP> of thing trivial for me).

You haven't looked at mboxtest.py, have you?  I'm using
random.shuffle(), too.  You don't need to have many files to make an
arbitrary selection of messages from an mbox.

I'll report some more results when they're done.

Jeremy


golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1808.54f25b5c3ce8b81c56da0ef6693c5ffb.eml000066400000000000000000000105641444326627400314420ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 20:45:18 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 15:45:18 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] understanding high false negative rate
In-Reply-To: <15738.13529.407748.635725@slothrop.zope.com>
Message-ID: 

>   TP> I'm reading this now as that you trained on about 220 spam and
>   TP> about 220 ham.  That's less than 10% of the sizes of the
>   TP> training sets I've been using.  Please try an experiment: train
>   TP> on 550 of each, and test once against the other 550 of each.

[Jeremy]
> This helps a lot!

Possibly.  I checked in a change to classifier.py overnight (getting rid of
MINCOUNT) that gave a major improvement in the f-n rate too, independent of
tokenization.

> Here are results with the stock tokenizer:

Unsure what "stock tokenizer" means to you.  For example, it might mean
tokenizer.tokenize, or mboxtest.MyTokenizer.tokenize.

> Training on  &  /home/jeremy/Mail/spam 8>
>  ... 644 hams & 557 spams
>       0.000  10.413
>       1.398   6.104
>       1.398   5.027
> Training on  &  /home/jeremy/Mail/spam 0>
>  ... 644 hams & 557 spams
>       0.000   8.259
>       1.242   2.873
>       1.242   5.745
> Training on  &  /home/jeremy/Mail/spam 3>
>  ... 644 hams & 557 spams
>       1.398   5.206
>       1.398   4.488
>       0.000   9.336
> Training on  &  /home/jeremy/Mail/spam 0>
>  ... 644 hams & 557 spams
>       1.553   5.206
>       1.553   5.027
>       0.000   9.874
> total false pos 139 5.39596273292
> total false neg 970 43.5368043088

Note that those rates remain much higher than I got using just 220 of ham
and 220 of spam.  That remains A Mystery.

> And results from the tokenizer that looks at all headers except Date,
> Received, and X-From_:

Unsure what that means too.  For example, "looks at" might mean you enabled
Anthony's count-them gimmick, and/or that you're tokenizing them yourself,
and/or ...?

> Training on  &  /home/jeremy/Mail/spam 8>
>  ... 644 hams & 557 spams
>       0.000   7.540
>       0.932   4.847
>       0.932   3.232
> Training on  &  /home/jeremy/Mail/spam 0>
>  ... 644 hams & 557 spams
>       0.000   7.181
>       0.621   2.873
>       0.621   4.847
> Training on  &  /home/jeremy/Mail/spam 3>
>  ... 644 hams & 557 spams
>       1.087   4.129
>       1.087   3.052
>       0.000   6.822
> Training on  &  /home/jeremy/Mail/spam 0>
>  ... 644 hams & 557 spams
>       0.776   3.411
>       0.776   3.411
>       0.000   6.463
> total false pos 97 3.76552795031
> total false neg 738 33.1238779174
>
> Is it safe to conclude that avoiding any cleverness with headers is a
> good thing?

Since I don't know what you did, exactly, I can't guess.  What you seemed to
show is that you did *something* clever with headers and that doing so
helped (the "after" numbers are better than the "before" numbers, right?).
Assuming that what you did was override what's now
tokenizer.Tokenizer.tokenize_headers with some other routine, and didn't
call the base Tokenizer.tokenize_headers at all, then you're missing
carefully tested treatment of just a few header fields, but adding many
dozens of other header fields.  There's no question that adding more header
fields should help; tokenizer.Tokenizer.tokenize_headers doesn't do so only
because my testing corpora are such that I can't add more headers without
getting major benefits for bogus reasons.

Apart from all that, you said you're skipping Received.  By several
accounts, that may be the most valuable of all the header fields.  I'm
(meaning tokenizer.Tokenizer.tokenize_headers) skipping them too for the
reason explained above.  Offline a week or two ago, Neil Schemenauer
reported good results from this scheme:

    ip_re = re.compile(r'(\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3})')

    for header in msg.get_all("received", ()):
        for ip in ip_re.findall(header):
            parts = ip.split(".")
            for n in range(1, 5):
                yield 'received:' + '.'.join(parts[:n])

This makes a lot of sense to me; I just checked it in, but left it disabled
for now.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1809.582f22e10f4f792eb0efe0499d37db30.eml000066400000000000000000000021141444326627400312060ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 21:11:36 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 16:11:36 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] test sets?
In-Reply-To: <200209061424.g86EOcd14363@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: 

[Guido]
> Perhaps more useful would be if Tim could check in the pickle(s?)
> generated by one of his training runs, so that others can see how
> Tim's training data performs against their own corpora.

I did that yesterday, but seems like nobody bit.  Just in case , I
uploaded a new version just now.  Since MINCOUNT went away, UNKNOWN_SPAMPROB
is much less likely, and there's almost nothing that can be pruned away (so
the file is about 5x larger now).

    http://sf.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=61702


> This could also be the starting point for a self-contained distribution
> (you've got to start with *something*, and training with python-list data
> seems just as good as anything else).

The only way to know anything here is for someone to try it.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1810.46172a3da4e739c7b65a3b3aa3869e9d.eml000066400000000000000000000030461444326627400312050ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: jeremy@alum.mit.edu
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 21:15:03 2002
From: jeremy@alum.mit.edu (Jeremy Hylton)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 16:15:03 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] understanding high false negative rate
In-Reply-To: 
References: <15738.13529.407748.635725@slothrop.zope.com>
	
Message-ID: <15738.24135.294137.640570@slothrop.zope.com>

Here's clarification of why I did:

First test results using tokenizer.Tokenizer.tokenize_headers()
unmodified. 

Training on 644 hams & 557 spams
      0.000  10.413
      1.398   6.104
      1.398   5.027
Training on 644 hams & 557 spams
      0.000   8.259
      1.242   2.873
      1.242   5.745
Training on 644 hams & 557 spams
      1.398   5.206
      1.398   4.488
      0.000   9.336
Training on 644 hams & 557 spams
      1.553   5.206
      1.553   5.027
      0.000   9.874
total false pos 139 5.39596273292
total false neg 970 43.5368043088

Second test results using mboxtest.MyTokenizer.tokenize_headers().
This uses all headers except Received, Data, and X-From_.

Training on 644 hams & 557 spams
      0.000   7.540
      0.932   4.847
      0.932   3.232
Training on 644 hams & 557 spams
      0.000   7.181
      0.621   2.873
      0.621   4.847
Training on 644 hams & 557 spams
      1.087   4.129
      1.087   3.052
      0.000   6.822
Training on 644 hams & 557 spams
      0.776   3.411
      0.776   3.411
      0.000   6.463
total false pos 97 3.76552795031
total false neg 738 33.1238779174

Jeremy

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1811.49621617c6fee0551ce210e30094898a.eml000066400000000000000000000027221444326627400307010ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: guido@python.org
Delivery-Date: Sat Sep  7 21:19:16 2002
From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 16:19:16 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] test sets?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 07 Sep 2002 16:11:36 EDT."
              
References:  
Message-ID: <200209072019.g87KJGe15250@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

> [Guido]
> > Perhaps more useful would be if Tim could check in the pickle(s?)
> > generated by one of his training runs, so that others can see how
> > Tim's training data performs against their own corpora.

[Tim]
> I did that yesterday, but seems like nobody bit.

I downloaded and played with it a bit, but had no time to do anything
systematic.  It correctly recognized a spam that slipped through SA.
But it also identified as spam everything in my inbox that had any
MIME structure or HTML parts, and several messages in my saved 'zope
geeks' list that happened to be using MIME and/or HTML.

So I guess I'll have to retrain it (yes, you told me so :-).

> Just in case , I
> uploaded a new version just now.  Since MINCOUNT went away, UNKNOWN_SPAMPROB
> is much less likely, and there's almost nothing that can be pruned away (so
> the file is about 5x larger now).
> 
>     http://sf.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=61702

I'll try this when I have time.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1812.f25ce16131a4a1e9b4eb4e04f748509a.eml000066400000000000000000000006701444326627400311700ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: skip@pobox.com
Delivery-Date: Sun Sep  8 00:11:19 2002
From: skip@pobox.com (Skip Montanaro)
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 18:11:19 -0500
Subject: [Spambayes] spambayes package?
Message-ID: <15738.34711.467756.145336@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com>

Before we get too far down this road, what do people think of creating a
spambayes package containing classifier and tokenizer?  This is just to
minimize clutter in site-packages.

Skip
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1813.c86ae674674567c5779cfb7a30385e45.eml000066400000000000000000000013451444326627400310170ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Sun Sep  8 00:22:18 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 19:22:18 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] understanding high false negative rate
In-Reply-To: <15738.24135.294137.640570@slothrop.zope.com>
Message-ID: 

[Jeremy Hylton]
> Here's clarification of why I did:

That's pretty much what I had guessed.  Thanks!  One more to try:

> First test results using tokenizer.Tokenizer.tokenize_headers()
> unmodified. 
> ...
> Second test results using mboxtest.MyTokenizer.tokenize_headers().
> This uses all headers except Received, Data, and X-From_.
> ...

Try the latter again, but call the base tokenize_headers() too.
golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1814.95d3ab2beeba9b96666d25c09de2143f.eml000066400000000000000000000020361444326627400313450ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: guido@python.org
Delivery-Date: Sun Sep  8 03:47:23 2002
From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 22:47:23 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] spambayes package?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 07 Sep 2002 18:11:19 CDT."
             <15738.34711.467756.145336@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com> 
References: <15738.34711.467756.145336@12-248-11-90.client.attbi.com> 
Message-ID: <200209080247.g882lNt17033@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

> Before we get too far down this road, what do people think of creating a
> spambayes package containing classifier and tokenizer?  This is just to
> minimize clutter in site-packages.

Too early IMO (if you mean to leave the various other tools out of
it).  If and when we package this, perhaps we should use Barry's trick
from the email package for making the package itself the toplevel dir
of the distribution (rather than requiring an extra directory level
just so the package can be a subdir of the distro).

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1815.c20d5899b4b27415389a10cd4f400019.eml000066400000000000000000000040361444326627400306730ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: tim.one@comcast.net
Delivery-Date: Sun Sep  8 03:55:12 2002
From: tim.one@comcast.net (Tim Peters)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 22:55:12 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] test sets?
In-Reply-To: <200209072019.g87KJGe15250@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>
Message-ID: 

[Guido, on the classifier pickle on SF]
> I downloaded and played with it a bit, but had no time to do anything
> systematic.

Cool!

> It correctly recognized a spam that slipped through SA.

Ditto.

> But it also identified as spam everything in my inbox that had any
> MIME structure or HTML parts, and several messages in my saved 'zope
> geeks' list that happened to be using MIME and/or HTML.

Do you know why?  The strangest implied claim there is that it hates MIME
independent of HTML.  For example, the spamprob of 'content-type:text/plain'
in that pickle is under 0.21.  'content-type:multipart/alternative' gets
0.93, but that's not a killer clue, and one bit of good content will more
than cancel it out.

WRT hating HTML, possibilities include:

1. It really had to do with something other than MIME/HTML.

2. These are pure HTML (not multipart/alternative with a text/plain part),
   so that the tags aren't getting stripped.  The pickled classifier
   despises all hints of HTML due to its c.l.py heritage.

3. These are multipart/alternative with a text/plain part, but the
   latter doesn't contain the same text as the text/html part (for
   example, as Anthony reported, perhaps the text/plain part just
   says something like "This is an HMTL message.").

If it's #2, it would be easy to add an optional bool argument to tokenize()
meaning "even if it is pure HTML, strip the tags anyway".  In fact, I'd like
to do that and default it to True.  The extreme hatred of HTML on tech lists
strikes me as, umm, extreme .

> So I guess I'll have to retrain it (yes, you told me so :-).

That would be a different experiment.  I'm certainly curious to see whether
Jeremy's much-worse-than-mine error rates are typical or aberrant.

golang-github-gatherstars-com-jwz-1.4.0/test/testdata/ham/1816.7e6c3f51ab4a45f60fbb0968d56f512c.eml000066400000000000000000000305561444326627400312740ustar00rootroot00000000000000Return-Path: guido@python.org
Delivery-Date: Sun Sep  8 04:38:47 2002
From: guido@python.org (Guido van Rossum)
Date: Sat, 07 Sep 2002 23:38:47 -0400
Subject: [Spambayes] test sets?
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 07 Sep 2002 22:55:12 EDT."
              
References:  
Message-ID: <200209080338.g883clw17223@pcp02138704pcs.reston01.va.comcast.net>

> > But it also identified as spam everything in my inbox that had any
> > MIME structure or HTML parts, and several messages in my saved 'zope
> > geeks' list that happened to be using MIME and/or HTML.
> 
> Do you know why?  The strangest implied claim there is that it hates MIME
> independent of HTML.  For example, the spamprob of 'content-type:text/plain'
> in that pickle is under 0.21.  'content-type:multipart/alternative' gets
> 0.93, but that's not a killer clue, and one bit of good content will more
> than cancel it out.

I reran the experiment (with the new SpamHam1.pik, but it doesn't seem
to make a difference).  Here are the clues for the two spams in my
inbox (in hammie.py's output format, which sorts the clues by
probability; the first two numbers are the message number and overall
probability; then line-folded):

    66 1.00 S 'facility': 0.01; 'speaker': 0.01; 'stretch': 0.01;
    'thursday': 0.01; 'young,': 0.01; 'mistakes': 0.12; 'growth':
    0.85; '>content-type:text/plain': 0.85; 'please': 0.85; 'capital':
    0.92; 'series': 0.92; 'subject:Don': 0.94; 'companies': 0.96;
    '>content-type:text/html': 0.96; 'fee': 0.96; 'money': 0.96;
    '8:00am': 0.99; '9:00am': 0.99; '>content-type:image/gif': 0.99;
    '>content-type:multipart/alternative': 0.99; 'attend': 0.99;
    'companies,': 0.99; 'content-type/type:multipart/alternative':
    0.99; 'content-type:multipart/related': 0.99; 'economy': 0.99;
    'economy"': 0.99

This has 6 content-types as spam clues, only one of which is related
to HTML, despite there being an HTML alternative (and 12 other spam
clues, vs. only 6 ham clues).  This was an announcement of a public
event by our building owners, with a text part that was the same as
the HTML (AFAICT).  Its language may be spammish, but the content-type
clues didn't help.  (BTW, it makes me wonder about the wisdom of
keeping punctuation -- 'economy' and 'economy"' to me don't seem to
deserve two be counted as clues.)

    76 1.00 S '(near': 0.01; 'alexandria': 0.01; 'conn': 0.01;
    'from:adam': 0.01; 'from:email addr:panix': 0.01; 'poked': 0.01;
    'thorugh': 0.01; 'though': 0.03; "i'm": 0.03; 'reflect': 0.05;
    "i've": 0.06; 'wednesday': 0.07; 'content-disposition:inline':
    0.10; 'contacting': 0.93; 'sold': 0.96; 'financially': 0.98;
    'prices': 0.98; 'rates': 0.99; 'discount.': 0.99; 'hotel': 0.99;
    'hotels': 0.99; 'hotels.': 0.99; 'nights,': 0.99; 'plaza': 0.99;
    'rates,': 0.99; 'rates.': 0.99; 'rooms': 0.99; 'season': 0.99;
    'stations': 0.99; 'subject:Hotel': 0.99

Here is the full message (Received: headers stripped), with apologies
to Ziggy and David:

"""
Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 17:17:13 -0400
From: Adam Turoff 
Subject: Hotel information
To: guido@python.org, davida@activestate.com
Message-id: <20020906211713.GK7451@panix.com>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4i

I've been looking into hotels.  I poked around expedia for availability
from March 26 to 29 (4 nights, wednesday thorugh saturday).  

I've also started contacting hotels for group rates; some of the group
rates are no better than the regular rates, and they require signing a
contract with a minimum number of rooms sold (with someone financially
responsible for unbooked rooms).  Most hotels are less than responsive...

	Radission - Barcelo Hotel (DuPont Circle)
	$125/night, $99/weekend

	State Plaza hotel (Foggy Bottom; near GWU)
	$119/night, $99/weekend

	Hilton Silver Spring (Near Metro, in suburban MD)
	$99/hight, $74/weekend

	Windsor Park Hotel
	Conn Ave, between DuPont Circle/Woodley Park Metro stations
	$95/night; needs a car

	Econo Lodge Alexandria (Near Metro, in suburban VA)
	$95/night

This is a hand picked list; I ignored anything over $125/night, even
though there are some really well situated hotels nearby at higher rates.
Also, I'm not sure how much these prices reflect an expedia-only
discount.  I can't vouch for any of these hotels, either.

I also found out that the down season for DC Hotels are mid-june through
mid-september, and mid-november through mid-january.

Z.
"""

This one has no MIME structure nor HTML!  It even has a
Content-disposition which is counted as a non-spam clue.  It got
f-p'ed because of the many hospitality-related and money-related
terms.  I'm surprised $125/night and similar aren't clues too.  (And
again, several spam clues are duplicated with different variations:
'hotel', 'hotels', 'hotels.', 'subject:Hotel', 'rates,', 'rates.'.

> WRT hating HTML, possibilities include:
> 
> 1. It really had to do with something other than MIME/HTML.
> 
> 2. These are pure HTML (not multipart/alternative with a text/plain part),
>    so that the tags aren't getting stripped.  The pickled classifier
>    despises all hints of HTML due to its c.l.py heritage.
> 
> 3. These are multipart/alternative with a text/plain part, but the
>    latter doesn't contain the same text as the text/html part (for
>    example, as Anthony reported, perhaps the text/plain part just
>    says something like "This is an HMTL message.").
> 
> If it's #2, it would be easy to add an optional bool argument to tokenize()
> meaning "even if it is pure HTML, strip the tags anyway".  In fact, I'd like
> to do that and default it to True.  The extreme hatred of HTML on tech lists
> strikes me as, umm, extreme .

I also looked in more detail at some f-p's in my geeks traffic.  The
first one's a doozie (that's the term, right? :-).  It has lots of
HTML clues that are apparently ignored.  It was a multipart/mixed with
two parts: a brief text/plain part containing one or two sentences, a
mondo weird URL:

http://x60.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=687715863&CONTEXT=973121507.1408827441&hitnum=23

and some employer-generated spammish boilerplate; the second part was
the HTML taken directly from the above URL.  Clues:

    43 1.00 S '"main"': 0.01; '(later': 0.01; '(lots': 0.01; '--paul':
    0.01; '1995-2000': 0.01; 'adopt': 0.01; 'apps': 0.01; 'commands':
    0.01; 'deja.com': 0.01; 'dejanews,': 0.01; 'discipline': 0.01;
    'duct': 0.01; 'email addr:digicool': 0.01; 'email name:paul':
    0.01; 'everitt': 0.01; 'exist,': 0.01; 'forwards': 0.01;
    'framework': 0.01; 'from:email addr:digicool': 0.01; 'from:email
    name:1:22': 0.01; 'http>1:24': 0.01;
    'http>1:57': 0.01; 'http>1:an': 0.01; 'http>1:author': 0.01;
    'http>1:fmt': 0.01; 'http>1:getdoc': 0.01; 'http>1:pr': 0.01;
    'http>1:products': 0.01; 'http>1:query': 0.01; 'http>1:search':
    0.01; 'http>1:viewthread': 0.01; 'http>1:xp': 0.01; 'http>1:zope':
    0.01; 'inventing': 0.01; 'jsp': 0.01; 'jsp.': 0.01; 'logic': 0.01;
    'maps': 0.01; 'neo': 0.01; 'newsgroup,': 0.01; 'object': 0.01;
    'popup': 0.01; 'probable': 0.01; 'query': 0.01; 'query,': 0.01;
    'resizes': 0.01; 'servlet': 0.01; 'skip:? 20': 0.01; 'stems':
    0.01; 'subject:JSP': 0.01; 'sucks!': 0.01; 'templating': 0.01;
    'tempted': 0.01; 'url.': 0.01; 'usenet': 0.01; 'usenet,': 0.01;
    'wrote': 0.01; 'x-mailer:mozilla 4.74 [en] (windows nt 5.0; u)':
    0.01; 'zope': 0.01; '#000000;': 0.99; '#cc0000;': 0.99;
    '#ff3300;': 0.99; '#ff6600;': 0.99; '#ffffff;': 0.99; '©':
    0.99; '>': 0.99; '  ': 0.99; '"no': 0.99;
    '.med': 0.99; '.small': 0.99; '0pt;': 0.99; '0px;': 0.99; '10px;':
    0.99; '11pt;': 0.99; '12px;': 0.99; '18pt;': 0.99; '18px;': 0.99;
    '1pt;': 0.99; '2px;': 0.99; '640;': 0.99; '8pt;': 0.99; '